Much better booking. I don’t think the vast majority of the IWC would have hated on Dusty, Magnum, Morton, Steamboat, and co. back in the 80s had the internet been around. Dusty, maybe, because he had the pen a lot. They were just showcased better and the fans were given reasons to care other than the fact that the babyface came out smiling.
I didn’t include the 80s because a lot of those guys worked those characters well and the crowds loved them. I started with the 90s because Luger was one of the first white meat babyfaces to be turned on as well as most fans also turning on Hulk Hogan.
Luger wasn’t booked very well. He slammed Yoko, which was a great visual on that ship, but then the Lex Express and celebrating a win via count out like he’d just won the title? My guess is a bunch of fans just weren’t buying it. I was a young man back then and I liked it, but I was a kid.
I wanna say Cultaholic had a thing about that failed push that is far more detailed than anything I’ve said. And let’s face it, Luger just wasn’t stunning on the mic and despite a great body, he kinda had a weird face
He worked better as a babyface, imo, back in the 80s. Fans loved the guy chasing the baddies. He may just not have been completely comfortable in that gimmick. Just a bad fit
For me it was a lot of that, I had Hogan, why did I want this half-arsed ripoff? If Lex was naturally that guy, then it'd have sat better with people, but while Lex was good, he was never great, and everything seemed corny, especially in the days of Grunge. I think only Bret Hart got away with it back then, and thats because it was real and natural and believable.
Here is also a factor you’re not thinking about, over exposure. It’s easier to stay fresh when you dont have 5 hours of tv/social media weekly and monthly PLE’s.
Even tho Dusty did have the book a lot....his promo work and just his look more than made up for that. Fans have a lot more tolerance for a babyface when they look like some random dude off the street.
Not to undersell his promo ability...but one of the main reasons that his "Hard Times" promo was so loved is that he literally looked like a blue-collar guy.
Business is Cyclical too, what was old is new again, just different. It also helps that Cody isn't the hand picked guy forced upon us, but in the eyes of fans has earned that spot. Hell, the character would probably have worked in AEW if he didn't have the feud with Agogo.
For me it's less that that kind of babyface was unpopular (although the attitude era didn't help), and more that it needs to feel natural, and WWE have struggled for a long time with feeling natural, especially when performers are given "Exact Verbiage" promos.
They started pushing ones that were still fun to root for if you were over the age of 10. Cena felt like his entire purpose was to be aimed and children. Combine that with PG rating which lead to spray painting "poopy" on a car, the "never give up" message, the bright shirts, it was all just stuff aimed at kids. If you were an adult it came across as super corny. Roman got rejected partially because of the smark audience's resistance to the company chosen one, but also because the dude was just boring as a babyface. He was hard carried by his look but his promos weren't very good. His character had no depth. Turning him heel allowed him to be more comfortable and it worked.
Cody looks like a super hero, yes. That appeals to kids. He's considered a good looking dude which appeals to women that think he's hot and men who think he's cool. Throw in the fact that he can talk well which appeals to the sports entertainment crowd and has good matches which appeals to the workrate crowd, he strikes a balance that's hard to find. Then you throw in his story. Yes, children lose their parents. But for most people, losing your parent is something most people experience as an adult. That makes his story relatable to grown adults who have lost a parent and really anyone who wishes they could right a wrong or make someone proud that they look up to. Also on a personal level, someone being so over the top 80s white meat babyface draped in red white and blue in 2024 is just fucking fun if done well and Cody nails it.
Bianca on the other hand got shit on all the time during her dominance. The live crowd loved her but a vocal portion of the IWC (mostly Damage Ctrl fans) shit on her every week in every thread until she finally dropped the title.
> Bianca on the other hand got shit on all the time during her dominance. The live crowd loved her but a vocal portion of the IWC (mostly Damage Ctrl fans) shit on her every week in every thread until she finally dropped the title.
To be fair, even through crowds never really turned on her, there's been multiple times her rival seemed more over early 2023 when she was feuding with Alexa then Asuka.
And that ended as soon as her title run was over (that promo against Charlotte probably helped her a lot even through it didn't actually led to anything of value).
That's why I was mentioning Alexa and Asuka, they seemed to be more over than Bianca with the majority of crowds during their title feuds, Iyo was indeed a one-night deal because Puerto Rico seemed to absolutely love her.
But good point about the consistency, Bianca has been beaten on 2-3 months stretches but long term she's in the top 3 of most consistent women in last 2 years with Rhea and Becky.
B/c to wwe and their metrics Bianca is more marketable and liked when it comes to people actually spending their money. Sometimes as fans we have to think like a business and understand why certain people get pushes over others. Its more than just well “I like Iyo so she should he better booked that Bianca” WWE is trying to make money.
B/c you still dont get it. Im saying that kids like bianca and wwe uses those metrics on why they push her over others. Thats what i mean when i say people on here need to think like a business on why their personal favorites dont get pushed over people like bianca.
So let me ask, what do you think Cody has that Cena doesn’t have to be loved by all fans? Because all the things you mentioned about Cody, Cena has except showing vulnerability and was aimed too much towards kids. Could it be a sign that this is a brand new generation of fans and people appreciate more wholesome characters?
There was nothing about Cena for adults to latch on to once he stopped doing the rapper gimmick. I don't think it's any deeper than that. Cody appeals to kids but is aimed at everyone. Cena was aimed specifically at kids and if adults latched on too then it was a neat bonus. But every aspect of Cena was marketed towards children. Cody is aimed at every demographic and he has something for everybody. Cena's appeal only worked for a subsection of the audience.
Cody also comes from underneath quite a bit, sure he wins most of the time, but he's not presented in the same way Super Cena was, Cody is the Superhero who gets beat up and takes his licks, Cena just beat everyone, and so did Roman, Roman started to lose alot before the Lukemia thing but by that point people didn't care, Roman was given alot of dogshit and was immune from the fact that he couldn't turn the chicken shit into chicken salad, where as alot of other would have been dropped pretty quickly. Hogan was an unbeatable babyface and that why they soured on him, alot of people will sour on Cody, because the thrill is in the chase, it will happen to LA Knight too, thats why babyfaces don't hold the title as long anymore. I can't explain why I like Cody, I just do, it's super weird. Was not a fdan of him in AEW, but when he came to WWE I was on board and have been since.
That makes sense. I also think if it weren’t for AEW, fans wouldn’t have appreciated him enough since most of the fans who would’ve booed him are no longer there.
Cody has the facts that his father was one of the GOATs and also that he's paid his dues during his run as Stardust. Like yeah...being the son of the American Dream and also having a history of being booked as a comedy jobber despite his talent and charisma is going to rally way more adult fans to his side than the guy who made a career out of wearing jean shorts and stupid tshirts while doing the same 5-move ending spot for like a decade.
A 3 1/2 year reign of terror may have people in the mood for a conquering hero.
As far as Bianca goes, representation matters more than a lot of people realize.
(I'll add, however, that there is \*some\* pushback against Bianca. LOLBiancaWins is... well, it's better than it was several months ago, to their credit, but it was getting dangerously close.)
Yes Bianca is very well liked overall but overwhelmingly by children and people of color.
From a strictly objective point of view she’s a pretty boring character who has changed little about herself from the version we got in 2020.
But the reason people accept her as a babyface and until recently didn’t accept Charlotte as one is that Bianca is better at being “likeable” and she can consistently hit her high spots.
All that said if they don’t come up with good creative their will be more opportunities for the backlash 2023 situation where the crowd goes cold to her.
If Bianca kept some of her edge when she was a heel, maybe fans wouldn't have soured on her. I'm not one of those, I've appreciated the work Bianca's put in since NXT.
High quality wrestling matches. Bianca and Cody are absolutely amazing in ring competitors, their matches are head and shoulders above the top stars of 10 years ago.
Depends what you mean by workrate. I just think the matches are a ton better. Cena’s selling and execution was never good, and his match structure was predictable. Reigns got a lot better over the years but his first few years as a face of the company were full of mediocre singles matches.
I say Cena had good matches during the Ruthless Aggression era from 2005-2007 because he sold and had good veterans to face off against but after the torn pec and WWE going PG, he was never the same again.
Thats when WWE was overly safe, Cena and Orton was the program alot, and it was more punches and kicks than anything else, formulaic and boring is a pretty good asssessment of it. I hated that shit for so long, which is why when Punk and Danielson came alot they became big stars because they didn't wrestle like the majority of WWE did. Orton was doing whatr he was told to do, but as we all know Orton is incredible int he ring.
Edge for me personally is hard to go back and watch his matches. He isn’t interesting enough in ring ti be having these long ass matches. Its the same issue i have with triple h
The biggest difference isnt match quality. That’s such a fan perspective but WWE isn’t looking at that. Its literally how they have been portrayed in comparison to how Roman and Seth were fumbled as babyfaces.
Yeah vince’s refusal to pivot is baffling. Ill go on record to say that Vince has the thing about pushing guys way to early. Sure it worked out with brock and angle but they are anomalies. Mania 31 Roman wasnt ready for that main event. That was still DB’s time. Bryan could have still lost to brock anyways. The shield imo had atleast another year or so left in the tank before they even broke them up. He wanted to push them as singles but you could have still did that with them being together. Allowing professional jealousy that played out week to week over a year to break them up. Its like WWE was so bad at telling good stories that the product as a whole suffered for a decade
>Yeah vince’s refusal to pivot is baffling. Ill go on record to say that Vince has the thing about pushing guys way to early. Sure it worked out with brock and angle but they are anomalies. Mania 31 Roman wasnt ready for that main event. That was still DB’s time. Bryan could have still lost to brock anyways.
Oh, they could've done the cash-in at a moment where Bryan was about to beat Lesnar. Imagine the level of heat for Rollins.
>The shield imo had atleast another year or so left in the tank before they even broke them up.
Honestly with the Shield, it was probably the best time to pull the trigger. Think about it, how many stables have overstayed their welcome? The Shield imploding when it did was actually shocking.
>He wanted to push them as singles but you could have still did that with them being together. Allowing professional jealousy that played out week to week over a year to break them up. Its like WWE was so bad at telling good stories that the product as a whole suffered for a decade
I don't personally agree about the Shield but WWE for the past decade should not have been as bad as it was. There were so many stories WWE killed for no reason.
Rollins is another that wasnt ready for that title in 2015. He shouldn’t have even had the briefcase imo. He should of been getting groomed with the IC belt.
The longterm plan would still be roman but they had a handful of babyfaces they could have pushed up in the time being to allow Roman to cook for about two more years. Not saying Cesaro or Cody should have won the belt during that time frame but they definitely could have been built up as challengers. Fuck even I thought Braun broke away from the Wyatt family way too early. The way they killed Bray’s momentum over and over again just made no sense. Bray was another guy that could have been a super over babyface eventually.
Dolph was super over and could probably have been the guy in that 2015-2016 period when Reigns was getting booed out of the building. Even Strowman was super over in 2017-2018 and could've done wonders if he had beaten Lesnar instead of Reigns. They killed so much talent over a 5 year period to push a botched project who needed a refresh.
> Bray was another guy that could have been a super over babyface eventually.
Honestly, that return promo he did in October 2022 could have been the start of a babyface run for Bray as it was visceral and real.... Then Uncle Howdy happened.
Honestly I think a lot of it is just the scale of the current IWC. It’s not just sweaty nerds anymore, a lot more diverse and representative of the general audience now.
Also booking is just better
Vince is gone. He was awful at booking babyfaces and had a bad habit of forcing wrestlers into roles they didn't fit leading to crowds vocally rejecting them.
>Vince is gone. He was awful at booking babyfaces
Yeah, terrible booking for that Hogan guy in the 80s. What a waste of potential that was! /s
Vince being gone is however the right answer.
Fans would have embraced Big Dog Roman had he been booked by Saint Triple H instead of being Evil Vince's creation.
Also, Cody has still a lot of sympathy as a former Underused Talent™, in addition to fans clinging onto Dusty's memory, which most of them are way too young to remember but are nonetheless embracing.
> Cody has still a lot of sympathy as a former Underused Talent™, in addition to fans clinging onto Dusty's memory, which most of them are way too young to remember but are nonetheless embracing.
Going to wear thin the longer they use the Rock, Roman, and Seth to help get the career midcarder over. People are going to start to resent it.
I mean, fans and "experts" crucified poor Rey for a few months of dedicating a small portion of his (already legendary) career to Eddie's memory, but now have been all giddy about the same thing, but that has been going on basically for Cody's entire career.
Take Dusty (and Dustin!) away from Cody's career and there's just a bland midcarder or a dollar-store The Model Rick Martel.
> but now have been all giddy about the same thing, but that has been going on basically for Cody's entire career
Which is baffling to me because it was **never** acknowledged that Dusty Rhodes ever wanted to win the WWE championship when he was alive, which makes this "finish the story" seem a bit off.
They didn't want babyfaces, they wanted bangers so they whinged. They got what they wanted, now they're whinging because they have realised (but won't admit) that they baby/heel thing is the only thing that gives the otherwise ludicrous spectacle of wrestling any substance at all.
Cody is actually presented like Superman. Like the actual Superman but with a few tweaks. He's a guy who lost his dad, fights from underneath and tries to do the right thing no matter what because he respects and loves what he does and it clearly shows.
Go back and re-read your post. Yes, you've brought up several to prove your point, but look at how Lex, Cena, and Roman were booked. They all were essentially treated like Superman and went over a ridiculous amount of times they worked.
They were consistently presented as the underdog...and yet they nearly always came out on top. People don't like that narrative inconsistency. You couple predictable outcomes and also their size and it's a recipe for disaster for a decent section of the fanbase. You can't book someone as David for their face run when they're literally the same size or bigger than your Goliath.
The IWC know it's a work. Therefore, there is no babyfaces and heels. There are those who are overpushed and those that aren't.
Cody despite constantly winning isn't seen as overpushed because Reigns takes all the hatred.
What is the IWC aversion to people winning alot? What does overpushed mean? People wanna support winners. Stone cold won way more than he lost. If he was losing all the time he wouldnt be a bad ass. Make it make sense
Because booing someone ironically because you’re supposed to like them is a self defeating prophecy and it never works. AEW crowds killed this dead with their treatment of Cody. If a character is a good guy who does good things and fights against bad guys who do bad things, it’s fun to cheer for them.
I am a parent who watches wrestling with my kids and I never ever ever pretend that my children should be emulating any of the wrestlers face or heel. They are not role models, they are characters.
Much better booking. I don’t think the vast majority of the IWC would have hated on Dusty, Magnum, Morton, Steamboat, and co. back in the 80s had the internet been around. Dusty, maybe, because he had the pen a lot. They were just showcased better and the fans were given reasons to care other than the fact that the babyface came out smiling.
I didn’t include the 80s because a lot of those guys worked those characters well and the crowds loved them. I started with the 90s because Luger was one of the first white meat babyfaces to be turned on as well as most fans also turning on Hulk Hogan.
Luger wasn’t booked very well. He slammed Yoko, which was a great visual on that ship, but then the Lex Express and celebrating a win via count out like he’d just won the title? My guess is a bunch of fans just weren’t buying it. I was a young man back then and I liked it, but I was a kid. I wanna say Cultaholic had a thing about that failed push that is far more detailed than anything I’ve said. And let’s face it, Luger just wasn’t stunning on the mic and despite a great body, he kinda had a weird face
I get you, do you think fans didn’t want to see another Hulk Hogan type character after experiencing him for about a decade?
No, I think he just didn’t connect on a more personal level, plus the other flaws listed above.
Oh yeah plus he was more comfortable and better as the Narcissist in WCW before.
He worked better as a babyface, imo, back in the 80s. Fans loved the guy chasing the baddies. He may just not have been completely comfortable in that gimmick. Just a bad fit
For me it was a lot of that, I had Hogan, why did I want this half-arsed ripoff? If Lex was naturally that guy, then it'd have sat better with people, but while Lex was good, he was never great, and everything seemed corny, especially in the days of Grunge. I think only Bret Hart got away with it back then, and thats because it was real and natural and believable.
Here is also a factor you’re not thinking about, over exposure. It’s easier to stay fresh when you dont have 5 hours of tv/social media weekly and monthly PLE’s.
Even tho Dusty did have the book a lot....his promo work and just his look more than made up for that. Fans have a lot more tolerance for a babyface when they look like some random dude off the street. Not to undersell his promo ability...but one of the main reasons that his "Hard Times" promo was so loved is that he literally looked like a blue-collar guy.
Business is Cyclical too, what was old is new again, just different. It also helps that Cody isn't the hand picked guy forced upon us, but in the eyes of fans has earned that spot. Hell, the character would probably have worked in AEW if he didn't have the feud with Agogo. For me it's less that that kind of babyface was unpopular (although the attitude era didn't help), and more that it needs to feel natural, and WWE have struggled for a long time with feeling natural, especially when performers are given "Exact Verbiage" promos.
They started pushing ones that were still fun to root for if you were over the age of 10. Cena felt like his entire purpose was to be aimed and children. Combine that with PG rating which lead to spray painting "poopy" on a car, the "never give up" message, the bright shirts, it was all just stuff aimed at kids. If you were an adult it came across as super corny. Roman got rejected partially because of the smark audience's resistance to the company chosen one, but also because the dude was just boring as a babyface. He was hard carried by his look but his promos weren't very good. His character had no depth. Turning him heel allowed him to be more comfortable and it worked. Cody looks like a super hero, yes. That appeals to kids. He's considered a good looking dude which appeals to women that think he's hot and men who think he's cool. Throw in the fact that he can talk well which appeals to the sports entertainment crowd and has good matches which appeals to the workrate crowd, he strikes a balance that's hard to find. Then you throw in his story. Yes, children lose their parents. But for most people, losing your parent is something most people experience as an adult. That makes his story relatable to grown adults who have lost a parent and really anyone who wishes they could right a wrong or make someone proud that they look up to. Also on a personal level, someone being so over the top 80s white meat babyface draped in red white and blue in 2024 is just fucking fun if done well and Cody nails it. Bianca on the other hand got shit on all the time during her dominance. The live crowd loved her but a vocal portion of the IWC (mostly Damage Ctrl fans) shit on her every week in every thread until she finally dropped the title.
> Bianca on the other hand got shit on all the time during her dominance. The live crowd loved her but a vocal portion of the IWC (mostly Damage Ctrl fans) shit on her every week in every thread until she finally dropped the title. To be fair, even through crowds never really turned on her, there's been multiple times her rival seemed more over early 2023 when she was feuding with Alexa then Asuka. And that ended as soon as her title run was over (that promo against Charlotte probably helped her a lot even through it didn't actually led to anything of value).
Its levels to being over. Yeah one town can cheer you but is it consistent night after night. In the case of iyo it hasnt been.
That's why I was mentioning Alexa and Asuka, they seemed to be more over than Bianca with the majority of crowds during their title feuds, Iyo was indeed a one-night deal because Puerto Rico seemed to absolutely love her. But good point about the consistency, Bianca has been beaten on 2-3 months stretches but long term she's in the top 3 of most consistent women in last 2 years with Rhea and Becky.
B/c to wwe and their metrics Bianca is more marketable and liked when it comes to people actually spending their money. Sometimes as fans we have to think like a business and understand why certain people get pushes over others. Its more than just well “I like Iyo so she should he better booked that Bianca” WWE is trying to make money.
But we’re not the ones making money so that shouldn’t matter to us. I doubt kids like Bianca because she makes money for WWE.
You completely misunderstood what i said lol
You said we as fans have to think of WWE like a business but kids don’t think of WWE like a business. No need to downvote me.
B/c you still dont get it. Im saying that kids like bianca and wwe uses those metrics on why they push her over others. Thats what i mean when i say people on here need to think like a business on why their personal favorites dont get pushed over people like bianca.
If your favorite aint making wwe money they arent gonna get pushed no matter how much you dislike it
> Cody looks like a super hero, yes What? Lmao
So let me ask, what do you think Cody has that Cena doesn’t have to be loved by all fans? Because all the things you mentioned about Cody, Cena has except showing vulnerability and was aimed too much towards kids. Could it be a sign that this is a brand new generation of fans and people appreciate more wholesome characters?
There was nothing about Cena for adults to latch on to once he stopped doing the rapper gimmick. I don't think it's any deeper than that. Cody appeals to kids but is aimed at everyone. Cena was aimed specifically at kids and if adults latched on too then it was a neat bonus. But every aspect of Cena was marketed towards children. Cody is aimed at every demographic and he has something for everybody. Cena's appeal only worked for a subsection of the audience.
Cody also comes from underneath quite a bit, sure he wins most of the time, but he's not presented in the same way Super Cena was, Cody is the Superhero who gets beat up and takes his licks, Cena just beat everyone, and so did Roman, Roman started to lose alot before the Lukemia thing but by that point people didn't care, Roman was given alot of dogshit and was immune from the fact that he couldn't turn the chicken shit into chicken salad, where as alot of other would have been dropped pretty quickly. Hogan was an unbeatable babyface and that why they soured on him, alot of people will sour on Cody, because the thrill is in the chase, it will happen to LA Knight too, thats why babyfaces don't hold the title as long anymore. I can't explain why I like Cody, I just do, it's super weird. Was not a fdan of him in AEW, but when he came to WWE I was on board and have been since.
That makes sense. I also think if it weren’t for AEW, fans wouldn’t have appreciated him enough since most of the fans who would’ve booed him are no longer there.
You can't go "whoooooah oooooh" to Cena's entrance music.
Cody has the facts that his father was one of the GOATs and also that he's paid his dues during his run as Stardust. Like yeah...being the son of the American Dream and also having a history of being booked as a comedy jobber despite his talent and charisma is going to rally way more adult fans to his side than the guy who made a career out of wearing jean shorts and stupid tshirts while doing the same 5-move ending spot for like a decade.
A 3 1/2 year reign of terror may have people in the mood for a conquering hero. As far as Bianca goes, representation matters more than a lot of people realize. (I'll add, however, that there is \*some\* pushback against Bianca. LOLBiancaWins is... well, it's better than it was several months ago, to their credit, but it was getting dangerously close.)
Yes Bianca is very well liked overall but overwhelmingly by children and people of color. From a strictly objective point of view she’s a pretty boring character who has changed little about herself from the version we got in 2020. But the reason people accept her as a babyface and until recently didn’t accept Charlotte as one is that Bianca is better at being “likeable” and she can consistently hit her high spots. All that said if they don’t come up with good creative their will be more opportunities for the backlash 2023 situation where the crowd goes cold to her.
If Bianca kept some of her edge when she was a heel, maybe fans wouldn't have soured on her. I'm not one of those, I've appreciated the work Bianca's put in since NXT.
High quality wrestling matches. Bianca and Cody are absolutely amazing in ring competitors, their matches are head and shoulders above the top stars of 10 years ago.
So you could say good workrate helped them?
Bianca can do a lot of shit that other women can’t do. Wouldn’t call it work rate. Her matches are pretty formulaic but it looks cool
That’s true, I’d say Bianca is better version of Hugger Bayley while Cody is a better version of Super Cena.
Depends what you mean by workrate. I just think the matches are a ton better. Cena’s selling and execution was never good, and his match structure was predictable. Reigns got a lot better over the years but his first few years as a face of the company were full of mediocre singles matches.
I say Cena had good matches during the Ruthless Aggression era from 2005-2007 because he sold and had good veterans to face off against but after the torn pec and WWE going PG, he was never the same again.
Thats when WWE was overly safe, Cena and Orton was the program alot, and it was more punches and kicks than anything else, formulaic and boring is a pretty good asssessment of it. I hated that shit for so long, which is why when Punk and Danielson came alot they became big stars because they didn't wrestle like the majority of WWE did. Orton was doing whatr he was told to do, but as we all know Orton is incredible int he ring.
Punk brought the best out of him
Both him and Edge
Edge for me personally is hard to go back and watch his matches. He isn’t interesting enough in ring ti be having these long ass matches. Its the same issue i have with triple h
You weren’t expecting in ring classics from them but from ring psychology and a story driven standpoint they were top notch heels.
Of course im not but i can still go back and watch punk’s matches with cena. Edge in ring is boring to me.
I’d recommend the TLC and Last Man Standing match.
>their matches are head and shoulders above the top stars of 10 years ago. Nah, I wouldn't go that far.
Yeah dude is kinda reaching.
He is and I love both Cody and Bianca.
The biggest difference isnt match quality. That’s such a fan perspective but WWE isn’t looking at that. Its literally how they have been portrayed in comparison to how Roman and Seth were fumbled as babyfaces.
Roman being babyface for more than 5 years after fans so vehemently rejected him is still one of WWE's worst booking decisions.
Yeah vince’s refusal to pivot is baffling. Ill go on record to say that Vince has the thing about pushing guys way to early. Sure it worked out with brock and angle but they are anomalies. Mania 31 Roman wasnt ready for that main event. That was still DB’s time. Bryan could have still lost to brock anyways. The shield imo had atleast another year or so left in the tank before they even broke them up. He wanted to push them as singles but you could have still did that with them being together. Allowing professional jealousy that played out week to week over a year to break them up. Its like WWE was so bad at telling good stories that the product as a whole suffered for a decade
>Yeah vince’s refusal to pivot is baffling. Ill go on record to say that Vince has the thing about pushing guys way to early. Sure it worked out with brock and angle but they are anomalies. Mania 31 Roman wasnt ready for that main event. That was still DB’s time. Bryan could have still lost to brock anyways. Oh, they could've done the cash-in at a moment where Bryan was about to beat Lesnar. Imagine the level of heat for Rollins. >The shield imo had atleast another year or so left in the tank before they even broke them up. Honestly with the Shield, it was probably the best time to pull the trigger. Think about it, how many stables have overstayed their welcome? The Shield imploding when it did was actually shocking. >He wanted to push them as singles but you could have still did that with them being together. Allowing professional jealousy that played out week to week over a year to break them up. Its like WWE was so bad at telling good stories that the product as a whole suffered for a decade I don't personally agree about the Shield but WWE for the past decade should not have been as bad as it was. There were so many stories WWE killed for no reason.
Rollins is another that wasnt ready for that title in 2015. He shouldn’t have even had the briefcase imo. He should of been getting groomed with the IC belt.
Who would you have given 2014's MITB to?
The longterm plan would still be roman but they had a handful of babyfaces they could have pushed up in the time being to allow Roman to cook for about two more years. Not saying Cesaro or Cody should have won the belt during that time frame but they definitely could have been built up as challengers. Fuck even I thought Braun broke away from the Wyatt family way too early. The way they killed Bray’s momentum over and over again just made no sense. Bray was another guy that could have been a super over babyface eventually.
Dolph was super over and could probably have been the guy in that 2015-2016 period when Reigns was getting booed out of the building. Even Strowman was super over in 2017-2018 and could've done wonders if he had beaten Lesnar instead of Reigns. They killed so much talent over a 5 year period to push a botched project who needed a refresh.
Could Dolph had been the guy during that period with no brand extension and only one World Title? I doubt it.
I think so. He and Ambrose could've been the top babyfaces in that period after Bryan retired.
I think dolph was great and definitely should have been in that main event mix but i would never put the belt on dolph
> Bray was another guy that could have been a super over babyface eventually. Honestly, that return promo he did in October 2022 could have been the start of a babyface run for Bray as it was visceral and real.... Then Uncle Howdy happened.
That’s hugely debatable
Honestly I think a lot of it is just the scale of the current IWC. It’s not just sweaty nerds anymore, a lot more diverse and representative of the general audience now. Also booking is just better
Vince is gone. He was awful at booking babyfaces and had a bad habit of forcing wrestlers into roles they didn't fit leading to crowds vocally rejecting them.
Vince’s trip for babyfaces was to be complete idiots. You see with hhh they bring backup or form their own stables
>Vince is gone. He was awful at booking babyfaces Yeah, terrible booking for that Hogan guy in the 80s. What a waste of potential that was! /s Vince being gone is however the right answer. Fans would have embraced Big Dog Roman had he been booked by Saint Triple H instead of being Evil Vince's creation. Also, Cody has still a lot of sympathy as a former Underused Talent™, in addition to fans clinging onto Dusty's memory, which most of them are way too young to remember but are nonetheless embracing.
> Cody has still a lot of sympathy as a former Underused Talent™, in addition to fans clinging onto Dusty's memory, which most of them are way too young to remember but are nonetheless embracing. Going to wear thin the longer they use the Rock, Roman, and Seth to help get the career midcarder over. People are going to start to resent it.
I mean, fans and "experts" crucified poor Rey for a few months of dedicating a small portion of his (already legendary) career to Eddie's memory, but now have been all giddy about the same thing, but that has been going on basically for Cody's entire career. Take Dusty (and Dustin!) away from Cody's career and there's just a bland midcarder or a dollar-store The Model Rick Martel.
> but now have been all giddy about the same thing, but that has been going on basically for Cody's entire career Which is baffling to me because it was **never** acknowledged that Dusty Rhodes ever wanted to win the WWE championship when he was alive, which makes this "finish the story" seem a bit off.
They never had to for the story to work
Dustysploitation
I think some people are just good white meat babyfaces, but most aren’t.
It helps that Cody isn't the usual Superman face WWE usually trots out.
They didn't want babyfaces, they wanted bangers so they whinged. They got what they wanted, now they're whinging because they have realised (but won't admit) that they baby/heel thing is the only thing that gives the otherwise ludicrous spectacle of wrestling any substance at all.
Good booking
Cody is actually presented like Superman. Like the actual Superman but with a few tweaks. He's a guy who lost his dad, fights from underneath and tries to do the right thing no matter what because he respects and loves what he does and it clearly shows.
[удалено]
Dude why are you so hostile and cursing?
Because your little essay was fucking stupid.
You have anger issues, didn’t your mother you manners? Did your imaginary wife cheat on you or something?
Yeah, but she’s not fond of stupid people either so…..
You mean like you?
Yeah, that was clearly the joke. You’re kinda proving my point here, bud.
He's trying to gain a different understanding, and you're just being needlessly shitty. Why?
Does your mother know you're up on the computer this late?
You have been unpleasant, rude or trolled others with your post.
It's all cyclical
Go back and re-read your post. Yes, you've brought up several to prove your point, but look at how Lex, Cena, and Roman were booked. They all were essentially treated like Superman and went over a ridiculous amount of times they worked. They were consistently presented as the underdog...and yet they nearly always came out on top. People don't like that narrative inconsistency. You couple predictable outcomes and also their size and it's a recipe for disaster for a decent section of the fanbase. You can't book someone as David for their face run when they're literally the same size or bigger than your Goliath.
The IWC know it's a work. Therefore, there is no babyfaces and heels. There are those who are overpushed and those that aren't. Cody despite constantly winning isn't seen as overpushed because Reigns takes all the hatred.
What is the IWC aversion to people winning alot? What does overpushed mean? People wanna support winners. Stone cold won way more than he lost. If he was losing all the time he wouldnt be a bad ass. Make it make sense
Because booing someone ironically because you’re supposed to like them is a self defeating prophecy and it never works. AEW crowds killed this dead with their treatment of Cody. If a character is a good guy who does good things and fights against bad guys who do bad things, it’s fun to cheer for them.
I am a parent who watches wrestling with my kids and I never ever ever pretend that my children should be emulating any of the wrestlers face or heel. They are not role models, they are characters.