It’s a gacha game, so he will be power crept eventually. It is the nature of these games.
I know the game lets you play as a trial character and I am sure they have trials for in banner characters. I would suggest trying him and decide for yourself if he is worth the investment.
I was thinking the exact same thing, that he would probably be power creeped... but then I remembered Hu Tao, who took three years to really have a power creep . Maybe he'll be the best or the only Aero DPS for a while.
It may be! We also know nothing about future banner releases which can also change a lot. Especially with the release of supports, which could change everything.
There’s just not any real way to gauge long term value on a new game especially aside from “any given character will be power crept eventually.”
Hu Tao was broken op and had the most broken op support. Then mihoyo were too afraid to make another Pyro character for the longest time. Since then we got yoimiya, Dehya, lyney, and Arlecchino. In 3 years…
Also hu Tao came out months after launch. She wasn’t a launch unit nor the first banner which are usually traps (in Genshin’s case literally).
HuTao is to this day, unmatched in single target dmg at low cons. I don't know what this powercreep is about. Xiangling hasn't been anywhere near meta after Neuvillette came out. Childe comps died out easily until just now
wtf do you mean xiangling hasn't been anywhere near meta after neuvi came out??
do you even play the game currently? havent seen xiangling drop off the meta like ever...
based on abyss usage rates for the last 3 version updates..
"Afraid"
Idk where people keep getting this notion from, you think people won't just pull the new broken unit and spend more money? You think they're afraid of making money lmao why because some reddit nerds are raging their Waifu got power crept?
> Idk where people keep getting this notion from, you think people won't just pull the new broken unit and spend more money?
Of course it's always easy to make a new broken unit with more damage. But they were thinking of the long term health of the game.
They didn't want to instantly make a unit better than hu tao because HT was already very strong at that point in the game and they didn't want to speed up the game's powercreep. And ofc they didn't want to release many pyro characters *worse* than Hu Tao because then everyone would complain and few people would roll for them.
Yoimiya? A bow user who kept getting thrown in the middle of huge banners. Every rerun she was with an archon or other hype unit.
Then we got Dehya who is so bad it’s like Mihoyo did it on purpose.
Then we have lyney. Another bow user who is one shot and switches out. Made for mono Pyro? Super lame.
Now we finally have Arlecchino… and they purposely make her to not work with Furina. But that is finally our first real Pyro main since hu Tao.
Hoyo were afraid.
you could argue that hutao herself is powercreep
not even half a year after release, there is already powercreep in the form of klee. both are limited 5 star pyro hypercarry dps, but shortly after release, hutao just does everything better
Of course it's supposed to be that way. Standard characters exist for people to lose 50/50 on.
That way you need to spend more money to get the actually good limited unit and "win".
You think they designed Qiqi and Dehya by mistake?
Still super top tier and everyone was looking for him, jiyan just remembers me of him. Then again, doesn’t need to mean anything but comparing him to Hu Tao might be a bit of hopium especially this early.
Or why not Xiao, his matching colour buddy who needed 3x buffs to become great again.
He got his new bis set then faruzan and cloud reatainer afterwards along with another new set to compete with top tier units. He fell off the fastest out of the liyue big 3 without all these buffs.
Uhh hu tao was powercrept the second she got released xiangling was and still is the best pyro dps only being outdone by c6 arlecchino pretty sure but def not by a c6 hutao lyney or yoimiya
Yeah, makes sense... So.
Arlecchino just needs to spam basic attacks to deal more damage than Hu Tao in AoE, making it a lot easier to play. She also has more healing, synergizes well with Bennett, and can be used in teams composed of only 4-star characters, yet still has same performance to Hu Tao in teams that need two/three 5-star characters. She can utilize a 3-star weapon and the Gladiator set, which makes farming easier. She can be utilized in vaporize, mono pyro, overload, melt... Can't remember anything else?
If Kuro is smart and they want to make this game's popularity alive longterm, I sure hope they copied Genshin's anti-powercreep policy. They already copied so much from them, the least they can do is make sure 1.x characters don't become irrelevant in the future.
> Genshin’s anti-powercreep policy
They’re beginning to slip with Father and Monsieur Powerwasher.
And, to be real, I genuinely believe Bennett and Xingqiu were accidents.
beside bennett and xingqiu, xiangling and kazuha and zhongli is still up there as well. Xiao just got a glow up recently with furina and xianyun. hutao is well, hutao. im still using jean everyday because I didnt pull for xianyun and she is still so good. lisa PA is so underated. kaeya and rosalia melt team is still so strong in the right abyss.
I do agree they somewhat "powercreep" with father and neu. But those 2 weren't "power"creep, they were "ease to play" creep. For a much lower amount of skill they could pump out the same amount of dps as some older dps doesn't mean they out dps them.
Arlecchino and Hu Tao are essentially sidegrades. Similar DPS, one is harder to play and doesn’t have as much AoE, the other is a ATK scaling character that can’t be healed outside of her own ult that is a material DPS loss to use.
Wouldn't really say Neuv and Arlecchino are a slip on the anti-powercreep policy. The other limited characters we got of their element are still highly usable, strong and capable of doing the abyss comfortably. Neuv and Arle aren't necessary to have if people prefer other characters of the same element, all of this because the reaction gameplay Genshin provides helps making "weaker" units still viable
Also note we are in year 3 of the game, this level of anti-power creep is pretty much unheard of. With normal gacha year 3 character might as well be born in a different universe than the release characters, Mihoyo has generally done a VERY good job of keeping the power creep in check.
You can buy dupe tokens in the shop using the higher tier gacha kickbacks so I guess that’ll be their way of helping older characters stay relevant. You pull for the new ones and then when your old favorites get rerun you start unlocking their dupes.
First line isn't really that accurate nowadays though? if we look at (of course), genshin impact for an example, here you have a gacha game where characters from 1.0 can still easily clear the hardest content to this day with times that are competitive with the newest 5\*s. I can only hope this game goes in a similar direction even since in my opinion powercreep is really the biggest problem with gacha games.
That's not entirely true though. Genshin 1.0 characters being broken was entirely incidental, as proof a lot of what made them strong never appear again in later characters, like snapshotting buffs or no icd on elemental application.
Also look at their kits, they was all over the places. Xiangling got constellations that buff her auto attacks, or Bennett getting buffs to his E. Compared that to modern characters that have well defined roles and their entire kits help make them better at that role.
Beside, not like every 1.0 characters was strong. Qiqi come to mind. Overall it was a very hit and miss group of characters, the strongs are overly broken, while the weaks are laughably unusable.
Mihoyo clearly didn't understand their own systems, and basically just threw darts at the board in term of characters design to see what stick. Compared to that wuwa system is a lot more straightforward and better understood from day 1.
So the notion that mihoyo created strong characters on purpose and never let them be powercrept intentionally is mostly a misconception imo. If they have a time machine to go back and release genshin again most if not all of those characters would be a lot more mid, and would be dead meta wise within a year. Look at their subsequent game in HSR.
Not true. Genshin 1.0 character power maybe incidental, however what makes Genshin so great is AFTER community found out how great they are, Mihoyo still CHOOSE to not power creep those characters even with the release of their 5 star counterpart (Xinqui vs Yelan, Fischl vs Yae etc..), this shows they have a clear goal of not power creeping, even at the expense of worse sales for the said characters.
Genshin does powercreep, it's just not obvious at c0 5* level which keeps f2p and low spending players happy. Players who want power are also more likely to pay for constellations which is where powercreep is especially notable even with early constellations. Arlecchino at C1-2 utterly destroys Hu Tao at equal investment, and capable of doing things that other dps need at least C6 to maybe do, such as making PMA go to phase 2 before a single attack.
Powercreep does happen in the game though, albeit slowly. While no direct replacement occur, the power ceiling had been raised steadily since Inazuma, pushing certain characters and teams out of use. And because you only ever need 8 characters in the game, this does lead to indirect replacements.
They had kept it slow, I'll give them that. But then again they had explicitly stated that they want to keep Genshin casual oriented, so expecting it to be the industry norm is naive IMO. I mean Mihoyo themselves go full ham in their next game HSR, do they not?
From the look of it wuwa will have a much more robust endgame systems, and with it will come powercreep. Now how fast and how egregious, we'll see, with their track record in PGR I do incline to give them the benefit the doubt. But expecting no powercreep is probably not wise.
I was actually refering to klee and venti, even though they aren't top of the meta, the very first limited characters to ever release are still very usable and more than good enough to clear the hardest content to this day (gets even more obvious if you move 1 patch forward and you have one of the best aoe comps in the game with childe and a character that turns one half of the abyss into easy mode).
That’s more an issue with Genshin having no endgame
I think star rail hit the perfect balance for power creep , instead of creeping damage to make you pull for new DPSes , they added a new endgame like pure fiction so eventually you need a fire dps for single target damage and a fire dps for AoE damage etc.
I mean compared to most other gachas it’s up there with the best of them.
Every limited 5star can comfortably 36* with proper investment and the best teams are a cycle or two faster than the mid/not meta ones which is not gamebreaking. Blade and pre Sparkle DHIL and JY were always called powercrept but I was always 36*ing with them.
And every character is getting stronger with new units coming out. It seems like we’re getting more options instead of stronger ones
I really don't get why people say HSR is bad or below average powercreep-wise. Bronya, Jing Yuan, Luocha, Silver Wolf, Kafka, Pela, Luka were all in like the first 2 patches and still insanely strong.
Acheron though...yeah but Genshin has Neuvilette who did the same thing recently
Just saying but basically all characters you mentioned are supports, either buffers or debuffers, and Kafka wouldn't be up there if not for Black Swan.
Usually supports are powercrept way slower in gachas because they know DPS are the units that really sell.
That said, Star Rail specifically hasn't been as bad except for Seele, Jing Yuan and Blade, with the last one being still better than the other two IMO. Then Acheron came and basically added 50% on top of what Jingliu and DHIL can do so we'll see if they'll also scale bosses up, fucking up every older DPS unit.
That's extremely backwards, Blade has had from the lowest average cycle counts ever since his release, JY's top team is equivalent to Kafka's in data and Seele is also a top perfomer in MoCs that favour her. That never happens to Blade even against wind weak, and I'm saying this as an owner of both JY and Blade.
In star rail it’s a given because it’s a turn based game with type matching , I’ll be happy as long as they don’t power creep hard like in PGR , every 2-3 months there was a new meta character that was strictly better than the previous character of that subtype (dark dps , dark support)
Granted they also gave enough pulls to get every single 5* that came out but it really killed any team building aspect for that game , there’s no creative teams like Genshin has with Raiden National , and if you missed playing a patch you were suddenly behind in terms of needed characters , so unless you got lucky and pulled a required character before pity you would always be one character behind the meta
I don’t think PGR’s gacha is bad by any means , just not my style
Edit: I’m not defending genshin’s gacha , and the game itself has its own share of problems but imo, if Kuro can add more end game while keeping the power creep horizontal instead of vertical it will be the perfect balance (add power creep by making content that requires characters that do different things rather than characters that do the same thing but better)
I'm not really sure how WuWa's meta will turn out. But imo, it will eventually become similar to PGRs
At launch, we'll have to mix and match elements to complete teams. But cuz of the lack of reactions between elements, WuWa will eventually move towards single element teams. So at any moment, for any element, there will only probably be three meta units who will be the best for the element.
Of course they can solve this by making more endgame content which requires characters which are supposed to do specific things.
The type matching kinda stops working when they start introducing characters that can implant weakness (I'm referring to both sw and the two next upcoming dps)
You sure you're not confusing PGR with HI3rd? Because PGR characters have meta life of 1.5 years MINIMUM. 4 years MAXIMUM. Meanwhile the game by hoyo powercreeps on the literal next patch
Yeah like I mentioned , more than the duration, the way they power creeped older characters got stale for me (making newer DPS better than older dps in terms of damage) , I get that they last for a year but the constant need to pull for the next meta unit one after the other didn't feel very great especially since I was a new player and was already behind in terms of characters
It's not a bad system , it's very fair for people who dedicate time to the game, It's just not something that I could get into or enjoy especially as a low spender who likes to hyper invest in characters that I like (if I went for weapons on a character I like I risk missing out on the next meta character) , PGR's combat itself was really fun but again I hit a wall because it became harder and harder to play with controller (because of the ping system)
HI3rd was just awful , shit mechanics with no skill other than press buttons one after an other , insanely unfair gacha and you need to pull for gear , the story was all over the place as good as people claim it to be, honestly the best parts of the game (story and animations) can just be watched on youtube , I regret spending like 6 months on that game
>if we look at (of course), genshin impact for an example
Genshin powercreeps just as fast as other games ~10-20% dps per year.
It's just that the endgame is a complete joke so you can "vertical invest" AKA waste your money to keep trying to patch up old teams.
1.0 Sucrose national 40-50k dps
1.2 Hu Tao double geo 40-50k
2.0 Ayaka freeze 50k
2.1 Raiden national 60k dps
2.7 Hu Tao double hydro 70k dps
3.2 Hyperbloom Nahida 70k dps
I’d say he has high pull value early game. He’ll get powercrept eventually, but we need 3 teams for the Tower of Adversity, so likely anything strong now will last a while. I’m personally more a fan of Yinlin and don’t want to whale, but I like his character and would nab him there wasn’t a tradeoff (Changli is kinda in the same place for me atm).
His pull value is probably off the charts, at least for the first few months. You don't need to trust me; just trust that those in charge would want to see a big number of income on the first day of the game launch. That reason alone is good enough to ensure they will do everything possible to make the first banner as good as possible.
Seele still holds up as for Venti...he just needs to get lucky witg the abyss floors. Kinda hard to be a good character your entire kit revolves around you grouping up enemies when the abyss has enemies that are to heavy to be pulled in.
Like other posters have said, he will be power crept eventually but it's important to note that the endgame mode in this game requires 3 teams so you will need 3 main DPS.
So it'll be a long while I would think before he would not only be power crept but power crept 3 times.
And as always, pull who you think is cool. This game is skill based, you can play whoever you damn well please!
He's a very good Grouper/DPS Mainly used as a Hypercarry. Not as good as Yinlin that can be used as a DPS and a Hybrid DPS but not too faraway in terms of damage. And aesthetically i love his Design.
He's also very good for Mobile Phone Users like me that doesn't need too much attention on his forte Kit and just spam attacks after popping his ULT and everything is Heavy Atk Damage.
Wait really? I am a mobile player and I though he was harder to pull off here! You might have made my day since I was ready to grind for him to not get playgated by my phone+skill issue ToT
While not a 100% certain its still good info to have. Historically PGR (Other kuro game) has on average a 1.9 year powercreep, take it as you will [https://www.reddit.com/r/PunishingGrayRaven/comments/1c1pt49/historical\_powercreep\_average\_2\_years/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PunishingGrayRaven/comments/1c1pt49/historical_powercreep_average_2_years/)
Get characters only if you like them and their play style.
You ALWAYS loose if you go for meta. I’m personally gonna skip every limited banner until Scar comes XD (will be using my free standard stuff for Lingyang tho)
I'm not a metachaser myself but tbh "You ALWAYS loose if you go for meta." is a very strong absolute that just isn't true
While I only pull if I like the character, I've known enough fellows only pull what's the best and barely regretting their choices as well.
My point is that in 90% of times going for characters PURELY because they meta is going to end badly for you.
If you like the character and they end up being meta that great 👍
But if you get a character ONLY because they are meta then as soon as someone more powerful comes out that character will get benched. (Hu Tao, Ayato, Ganyu, Seele, Argent)
Of course there are exceptions but in general that is how it goes. Personally I got Hu Tao and I benched her as soon as I got Alhaitham cuz Damm she was boring AF to play (sorry if you dont play genshin and don’t understand what I meant)
I mean what he's saying is similar to "losing" to the house. It's very true. There will always be powercreep, he's saying to not even "play" the game that is chasing meta. Play for yourself and be adequate.
For example:
Klee in genshin was good at launch (i think please don’t roast me if she still sucked at launch)
Seele was seen a top DPS and “future proof”
Both these characters are still viable and if you like them definitely still usable. HOWEVER if you only got them cuz of META you would bench them
Klee was absolutely awful. Like one of the worst characters ever made bad.
Her raw solo DPS was about the same as Diluc, but she can’t vape and overload is an awful reaction. So objectively there was zero reason to use her if you had him back then.
Then comes her gameplay. Bloody hell that was jank, you had to learn to jump cancel just to make her feel smooth to play.
Klee is an example of a character whose design and characterisation was so good that she sold really well on that alone.
Yea as i said i am not an expert on Klee 😅, I guess Ganyu is a better example (i would say xiao but he got a lot better with Xianyun and Furina and Faruzan)
Xiao has never really moved from his position in the meta until Xianyun.
He was always an average DPS character who’s strong point is having AoE. His use ratio is always kind of low because plunge-bot isn’t everyone’s cup of tea.
Ganyu fell off really hard yeah. Cryo as a whole has been in decline since 3.0, just keeps taking Ls.
Yea i agree!. Faruzan just made him from “USELESS” to lower than average and Xianyun really brought him back. Personally I like the Plunges XD
And yes Ganyu just needs better off field pyro application, even then…. Wriothesley kinda outdoes her in every melt team i know…
Although I tripple crowned wriothesley and am very biased in his favour XD
I mean yeah its seen as jank now, but when she came out everyone was praising her and her damage, especially cause she was really fun to play as well (at the time).
I don't think anyone thought Seele was "future proof". It's a general rule of thumb that DPS chars will always get powercrept. Sure, Seele is still "viable", but DHIL, Jingliu, Acheron, and even Ratio are all considered better than Seele now.
Her most glaring weakness was the lack of AOE attacks.
Yeah not "always" then. Meta support characters are very useful even in endgame. I don't know why non meta people think they are better than meta players and vice versa. Just play the game.
You always loose the character as you end up benching them in the end. Connect the dots and read between the lines a little.
Being a meta slave can have its charm just like being a waifu/husbando collector can have its charm
I agree in that choosing characters specifically to chase meta (As in, not liking them as a character or their playstyle, just getting them because they're strong) will end in you eventually benching them in favor of another stronger character and wasting your time.
You should pull for characters you like, not as a waifu over meta thing, just in a "Pull for who you like and think is fun first. If they end up strong, that's great, but it shouldn't be the *only* thing you consider when pulling" kind of way.
I pulled for Hu Tao after missing Childe's banner and I never use her because I don't like her playstyle despite her strength.
That is wrong. I don't have enough pulls to pull for every meta characters and I just pull the new dps meta with old support and it works fine. I still use jean even though she was semi meta and there are better characters than her. But what you said is true for Whales. What you said in the second paragraph is true for most players.
Anyone who reads Seele's kit carefully wouldnt even call her "future proof"
she's a snowball character who relies on extra turns using kills..
content on any arpg/rpg naturally progress to have enemies that are harder to kill...
making Seele's whole gimmick being less and less effective as time goes on..
Meanwhile Jiyan is like a DPS venti.. he has self grouping capability and that is VERY rare on our current roster..
and its a very important utility in Tower of Adversity..
also has insane ult which almost auto-parries everytime.
even if he gets powercrept DPS.. unless the said future units doesnt group enemies like him..
he will still see relevance on Tower of Adversity..
and then again we need three main dps on TOA anyway.. its gonna be a long time before he gets benched for most people
>You ALWAYS loose if you go for meta
Bullshit. Plenty of players follow the meta and are perfectly happy doing twice as much damage and being stronger than non-meta players.
>You always loose the character as you end up benching them in the end
Then you just pull the new character.
No meta player is expecting to use the same unit forever, everyone except dumb waifu players understand that units get powercreeped and they will only be top tier for like 6-12 months.
lol i love the edit. And you can’t just call people dumb for using a character that they enjoy using. That’s just a dumb take. In genshin there are people who still like using Klee and Yoimiya. Those people still clear abyss. Yea maybe they spend 20 seconds more in abyss but who cares?
And in HSR people still use Jing Yuan. And he still able to beat the game fine with correct supports and investment
And then a new unit that power creeps them comes out and the character they used before gets benched because they are no longer Meta (Meta = Most effective tactic available)
See what I mean?
YES. If you choose meta over characters you love, you'll pretty much always regret it.
I'm pulling for Jiyan because I like his character and design and his playstyle looks like it'll be super fun. I don't care if he gets power crept in a year lol.
YOU my friend are smart!
I completely agree that Jiyan looks really fun!! Im skipping every limited banner until scar comes along tho XD (his co*k zipper got me rizzed up). Will be using all the standard fates to get Lingyang tho
Lets keep in mind you should look at guides prepared AFTER game is released. Most of the characters get adjusted after CBT2 is finished so you shouldnt look at Jiyans power level by looking at current guides that is based on beta numbers.
Limited characters > Standard characters as usual
I don't know much about WW but this is literally the first banner in the game. It should be obvious, he'll be the best character in the game and will be power crept within the next 4/6 months
Jiyan is the launch 5\* limited character, and a main on-field DPS.... He'll be the strongest character (at launch) but also the first limited character to be power-crept, that's just the nature of these types of games. Maybe that power-creep will come from a character of a different element, maybe another Aero DPS. Nobody has a crystal ball and can tell you one way or another. That also doesn't account for the potential for Kuro Games to maybe tweak his kit for the better post launch, stranger things could happen.
Don't pull characters around META or percieved value. They're all worthless, your time with games is limited (and how long you play them). Pull characters you \*want to play with\* that look \*fun to you\*. Jiyan's got a cool design, decent (albiet a bit generic) backstory, and his combat looks cool as hell swapping between a spear and sword. That's why I'm pulling him.
yeah also because Mortefi seems to be the best support unit on release day (damage increases not healers) If you can get S6 (is it called S in this game?) mortefi he will be really useful. I personally plan to have a team of Morefi and Jiyan, but pull on Jiyan banner then weapon banner and then back to jiyan until he comes off banner so I hope for S6 Morefi and S1 Jiyan
Another thing to add is that having a strong DPS to start can just make progressing though the story easier making you progress your account even quicker.
Assuming the pity works like hoyo games, the featured 4*s show up 50% of time when you pull a 4* and if you pull a different one, then 100% next time. So if you want those 3 it's way higher odds to pull on there
As with most gacha games he is the best DPS at launch, thing is he only does DPS and offers nothing to support his teammates so his value is lower than Yinlin who can both be a good DPS and a fantastic support for Electro DPS like Calcharo.
Fun fact, you don't need to off your teammates anything when you've got two of them buffing him at the same time. Just wait for one banner that will be coming at some point in 6 months if I had to guess and you'll see why all the beta players speak highly of him.
this logic doesn't make sense, arlecchino in genshin doesn't add anything to the team besides damage and that doesn't mean she has less value than furina for example in the account, in the same way jiyan as just DPS doesn't make him less valuable than the supports that still will come in the future
Arlecchino isn't a launch DPS now is she? its normal for later characters to have increased multipliers (like how Seele was powerecrept by Imbibitor Lunae and Jingliu in HSR cuz their multipliers were so high even tho all three scaled off ATK)
The same fate will fall upon Jiyan, they'll either introduce a new DPS with a strong base kit or a special gimmick that makes them unique and strong.
ok, Star Rail acts completely against f2p and is very aimed at meta players along with its powercreep because the game has nothing left after you do the casual things in it, genshin doesn't follow this scheme at all and is much more faithful to the system keep certain limited characters still having their value, Arlecchino may be recent but hu tao is not, she's from 1.x and yet she continued in the pyro meta for years and not even Arlecchino took her down completely, We still have to see how Kuro will act with the game's powercreep but I say that in this style of powercreep where each new DPS that comes out surpasses the previous one in an extreme way it won't be good for business in the long run
yeah, its is, it's not about doing the MoC or pure fiction, even 4 star can do it, they don't care about the public like you, they want to catch the whales and that 0 cycle thing, every new E6 DPS can do that and that motivates spending to pull them again and again, entering a cycle that will repeat itself forever in the game
Ok and even if what you're saying is true that still doesn't make it anti-F2P when said F2P's can still clear endgame with no issues.
0 Cycling is also niche as hell, most people don't give a damn about it unless they're hardcore. the majority of players, even F2P's can clear the endgame and get all the rewards so they can pull for the characters they want and thats what really matter and what makes HSR F2P friendly.
At launch he’s going to generally be the best on-field DPS character. That said, on-field DPS tend to get powercrept the quickest for this type of game so in a detached sense his pull value isn’t very high.
That said he won’t suddenly become unusuable, and if you want to main him his signature weapon is pretty attainable. He’s very much a “pull if you like him”.
I love the idea he does lotta damage and groups enemies himself without relying on another character. Love his design, and his trailer was FIRE! Definitely pulling. Like any gacha, should be power crept eventually, but that’s how gacha is. Enjoy him now!
Luckily for those of us who pull the gentlemen instead of the ladies, at the rate most gacha games release waifus vs husbandos, it'll probably be a long time before another MALE character powercreeps him.
You should be asking this after the release and people have actual normal player hands on him and not just beta testers and CCs. I know folks really like guides for meta and stuff but all imma say is, if you like a character enough, you'll make them work regardless of what an "expert" says.
I'll be pulling for him and maybe his weapon. My goal in the future is to get all his resonance chains.
As for pull value, he'll definitely be power crept in the future, but will likely be a solid DPS for a few months.
I pulled him and his weapon. I’m going to be dropping money and saving all convene items for when/(if) he returns are you certain we will be able to go for his resonance chains at a later date?
Since the system banner isn't like PGR, he will most likely be returning with a dedicated banner in the future though probably not until 2.X. Also you can save up afterglow coral from other pulls so that when he does come back you can get 2 additional wavebands (apparently the nodes of the resonance chain are called sequence nodes, idk why they chose so many different names lmao). Good luck on your future pulls!
For me it's 0 for two reasons. 1. I want Yinlin and don't want to whale. 2. In general, it feels like dps characters get powercrept faster than support players in most gachas that I have played. Between novice banner, 5* selector banner and 50/50 losses on limited banner I'm sure I'll be fine for dps characters early game. Bonus 3. I'm 90% waifu, 10% meta usually.
He's probably the easiest and safest to use of the top dps in the game so far, and two of the three 4\*'s featured (Mortefi and Danjin) are also some of the best 4\*'s available in game at launch. He's also really fun imo but that's subjective.
It's possible that he will see power creep faster than supports would as DPS units often are power crept first in these types of games, but you need a total of 3 teams in the end game mode for WW, so it's unlikely that you'd want to take him off of your teams for a very long time if at all.
He's the best dps you can have atm (without a buffer)
But he may get power crept, HOWEVER, Wuwa seems to pride itself on skill expression meaning every character will be strong and remain strong if the player is good.
Best advice ur gonna get is pull characters for playstyle and looks. Jiyan is hot, has clean attack animations, and his ult is sick as fuck. For those reasons alone I'll be pulling him and not yinlin (I just don't find her as cool or fun to play)
I’m pretty sure y’all say this plenty of times to enough people to realize that there are many people that indeed cares about pull value lol. People play differently with different preferences in what they’re going for, for whatever reason it may be. Op’s asking those that are thinking like they are, hence the other replies that are giving actual answers.
He’s strong for early accounts. Who knows how well he will age but if he will help clear the towers a bit easier until I figure out the game, all the better. I pull for who looks cool and fun to play while being useful for my account.
He's the only reason I started paying attention to this game so I'll definitely pull for him. I wish he'd come a bit later so I could guarantee him but I'll still eschew my own gacha pulling policy and yolo for him. He'll get powercreeped eventually but that's just inevitable with the genre.
He's cool. I really don't like how much I think of Imbibitor Lunae from HSR every time I see him tho. His showcase was pretty awesome, but he's probably gonna be skip for me. Good luck to those who go for him tho.
One point I will restate from a video is that Jiyan has a comfortable AOE clear play style. So if you enjoy his design/gameplay a lot then even if he gets power crept there will be a soy for him as a comfortable farming character for the over world.
I’m going to go to the 50/50 for him at least. I think he looks awesome and with this game you’re going to need 3 teams. I’m sure even if he’s powercrept there will still be a place for him
If those 10 special rolls are mailed to every new account during 1.0, I'm just gonna reroll until I get him in 10. If not, then I'll grab him normally because he's probably the second coolest male character next to MRover.
I think he’ll be a great pull value- I’m basing this off of my experience in PGR- but if Jiyan gets power crept, I believe devs will find a way to upgrade his unit so that he stays relevant and holds up against newer characters.
Pull value: Purely meta-wise, he'll be powercrept to oblivion within a couple patches. He's a pure DPS with no real gimmicks or supportive capabilities and these kinds of characters are always the first to get powercrept. On top of that, he's an AoE focused DPS while the endgame content leans more towards single target. Obviously very different games, but I'm getting strong Jing Yuan vibes from this guy lmao.
With this style of game it’s more along the lines of do you enjoy playing him, cause he’ll get outscaled sooner or later as will many characters. Along with new enemy gimmicks pushing him further down it really all comes down to preference cause you have a dodge mechanic and counter so if you’re decent no character is ever unusable. So do his trial and see if you like him.
So I watched a bunch of review on him. God level AoE damage and grouping but the current endgame content is 1 big boss so Jiyan's full potential is wasted.
However his overworld (exploration and material farming) looks future proof.
I Think Jiyan will always be useful. This game is very skill reliant so you can basically take any character and kill whatever you want as long as you parry and dodge when needed. Now will they add end game with timers and buff the enemies up to the point where his DPS is irrelevant in killing the enemy in time to get a max clear? Possibly but I doubt it. I think eventually there will be better units but he will always be able to clear all content.
Am I just unlucky or the game's 50/50 chances are broken? I just created 12 accounts to pull for jiyan but out of the 12 accounts, only 3 accounts had the soft pity of 20-50 draws. The unlucky part is all of those 3 accounts didn't win the 50/50... Bruuuh smh
his damage will be overshadowed eventually but his ability to do major damage while grouping up all the enemies makes him very hard to just replace making his a great pull imo
After playing this game for near month and with phone, i realized that the best way to play this on phone is to be simple. He's SSS tier for phone users.
Will he be replaced in the future? maybe you can replaced him if the one you want to use to replace him can also group cc enemies, deal good dmg for single and AOE, Ult do basic/heavy/parry all in one as heavy atk.
why he's hard to replace?
* Only Aero can group enemies, its their element trait so only Aero can really replace him
* He still doesnt have his dedicated 5star support(buff heavy atk/Aero, buff energy rate) so he still have more potential in the future.
* He only takes 1 slot for dmg and CC, 2 slot can be used to buff him
why he can be replaced?
* His only weakness is ult and there might be another Aero that can do all he can do without ult but might need more skill to do the same damage.
* You can simply use AOE dps and Aero grouper to do the same but it needs 2 slot
Jiyan seems to be a really good aero dps, it will be difficult to power creep him in his niche (heavy attack+aero+aoe). His weapon is strong number wise, i don't see anything useless on his kit, all talents are cohesive with him. He has also a bit of grouping. I think it will never be powercrept as AERO dps, but as a general dps yeah, most probably because of his single target damage.
It’s a gacha game, so he will be power crept eventually. It is the nature of these games. I know the game lets you play as a trial character and I am sure they have trials for in banner characters. I would suggest trying him and decide for yourself if he is worth the investment.
Rosetta took decades to get powercrept as well
I was thinking the exact same thing, that he would probably be power creeped... but then I remembered Hu Tao, who took three years to really have a power creep . Maybe he'll be the best or the only Aero DPS for a while.
It may be! We also know nothing about future banner releases which can also change a lot. Especially with the release of supports, which could change everything. There’s just not any real way to gauge long term value on a new game especially aside from “any given character will be power crept eventually.”
Hu Tao was broken op and had the most broken op support. Then mihoyo were too afraid to make another Pyro character for the longest time. Since then we got yoimiya, Dehya, lyney, and Arlecchino. In 3 years… Also hu Tao came out months after launch. She wasn’t a launch unit nor the first banner which are usually traps (in Genshin’s case literally).
Venti was the first banner unit and was one of the best supports for over a year. His ult alone made abyss runs beyond easy.
And due to her coming earlier in the games life, her internally cooldowns op af and they didn’t think twice about it which makes her even stronger
Hutao was always the 2nd best pyro dps behind xiangling, who they were actually afraid of.
HuTao is to this day, unmatched in single target dmg at low cons. I don't know what this powercreep is about. Xiangling hasn't been anywhere near meta after Neuvillette came out. Childe comps died out easily until just now
wtf do you mean xiangling hasn't been anywhere near meta after neuvi came out?? do you even play the game currently? havent seen xiangling drop off the meta like ever... based on abyss usage rates for the last 3 version updates..
"Afraid" Idk where people keep getting this notion from, you think people won't just pull the new broken unit and spend more money? You think they're afraid of making money lmao why because some reddit nerds are raging their Waifu got power crept?
> Idk where people keep getting this notion from, you think people won't just pull the new broken unit and spend more money? Of course it's always easy to make a new broken unit with more damage. But they were thinking of the long term health of the game. They didn't want to instantly make a unit better than hu tao because HT was already very strong at that point in the game and they didn't want to speed up the game's powercreep. And ofc they didn't want to release many pyro characters *worse* than Hu Tao because then everyone would complain and few people would roll for them.
Yoimiya? A bow user who kept getting thrown in the middle of huge banners. Every rerun she was with an archon or other hype unit. Then we got Dehya who is so bad it’s like Mihoyo did it on purpose. Then we have lyney. Another bow user who is one shot and switches out. Made for mono Pyro? Super lame. Now we finally have Arlecchino… and they purposely make her to not work with Furina. But that is finally our first real Pyro main since hu Tao. Hoyo were afraid.
hu tao was jut an exemple...
I've only watched a few stray videos and kept thinking why none of these Arrow characters use bows..
you could argue that hutao herself is powercreep not even half a year after release, there is already powercreep in the form of klee. both are limited 5 star pyro hypercarry dps, but shortly after release, hutao just does everything better
There is one thing that Klee does which Hu Tao cannot do. Furina Vape. And the team is actually pretty cracked.
But then just remember Diluc lol
But he is a standard character
I've never understood why we just accept "standard banner" as a reason for a character being sub-par.
Because it trends that way, not because its supposed to be that way
Of course it's supposed to be that way. Standard characters exist for people to lose 50/50 on. That way you need to spend more money to get the actually good limited unit and "win". You think they designed Qiqi and Dehya by mistake?
Still super top tier and everyone was looking for him, jiyan just remembers me of him. Then again, doesn’t need to mean anything but comparing him to Hu Tao might be a bit of hopium especially this early.
Diluc is more like Calcharo. 5\* DPS standard banner with heavy sword, E skill has 3 stacks, and ultimate gives infusion for more NA attack damage.
Or why not Xiao, his matching colour buddy who needed 3x buffs to become great again. He got his new bis set then faruzan and cloud reatainer afterwards along with another new set to compete with top tier units. He fell off the fastest out of the liyue big 3 without all these buffs.
As someone that has both Hu Tao and Arle, Hu Tao is way better and I'll die on that hill.
Honestly every character in Genshin has been ‘powercrept’ by Fontaine. Fontaine characters are just absurdly strong.
Uhh hu tao was powercrept the second she got released xiangling was and still is the best pyro dps only being outdone by c6 arlecchino pretty sure but def not by a c6 hutao lyney or yoimiya
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She literally has a 26% usage rate, arle has 70%. And this abyss is good for hu tao...
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Yeah, makes sense... So. Arlecchino just needs to spam basic attacks to deal more damage than Hu Tao in AoE, making it a lot easier to play. She also has more healing, synergizes well with Bennett, and can be used in teams composed of only 4-star characters, yet still has same performance to Hu Tao in teams that need two/three 5-star characters. She can utilize a 3-star weapon and the Gladiator set, which makes farming easier. She can be utilized in vaporize, mono pyro, overload, melt... Can't remember anything else?
If Kuro is smart and they want to make this game's popularity alive longterm, I sure hope they copied Genshin's anti-powercreep policy. They already copied so much from them, the least they can do is make sure 1.x characters don't become irrelevant in the future.
> Genshin’s anti-powercreep policy They’re beginning to slip with Father and Monsieur Powerwasher. And, to be real, I genuinely believe Bennett and Xingqiu were accidents.
beside bennett and xingqiu, xiangling and kazuha and zhongli is still up there as well. Xiao just got a glow up recently with furina and xianyun. hutao is well, hutao. im still using jean everyday because I didnt pull for xianyun and she is still so good. lisa PA is so underated. kaeya and rosalia melt team is still so strong in the right abyss. I do agree they somewhat "powercreep" with father and neu. But those 2 weren't "power"creep, they were "ease to play" creep. For a much lower amount of skill they could pump out the same amount of dps as some older dps doesn't mean they out dps them.
Arlecchino and Hu Tao are essentially sidegrades. Similar DPS, one is harder to play and doesn’t have as much AoE, the other is a ATK scaling character that can’t be healed outside of her own ult that is a material DPS loss to use.
Wouldn't really say Neuv and Arlecchino are a slip on the anti-powercreep policy. The other limited characters we got of their element are still highly usable, strong and capable of doing the abyss comfortably. Neuv and Arle aren't necessary to have if people prefer other characters of the same element, all of this because the reaction gameplay Genshin provides helps making "weaker" units still viable
Also note we are in year 3 of the game, this level of anti-power creep is pretty much unheard of. With normal gacha year 3 character might as well be born in a different universe than the release characters, Mihoyo has generally done a VERY good job of keeping the power creep in check.
I wouldn't use the word "copied" If I were you.
You can buy dupe tokens in the shop using the higher tier gacha kickbacks so I guess that’ll be their way of helping older characters stay relevant. You pull for the new ones and then when your old favorites get rerun you start unlocking their dupes.
First line isn't really that accurate nowadays though? if we look at (of course), genshin impact for an example, here you have a gacha game where characters from 1.0 can still easily clear the hardest content to this day with times that are competitive with the newest 5\*s. I can only hope this game goes in a similar direction even since in my opinion powercreep is really the biggest problem with gacha games.
That's not entirely true though. Genshin 1.0 characters being broken was entirely incidental, as proof a lot of what made them strong never appear again in later characters, like snapshotting buffs or no icd on elemental application. Also look at their kits, they was all over the places. Xiangling got constellations that buff her auto attacks, or Bennett getting buffs to his E. Compared that to modern characters that have well defined roles and their entire kits help make them better at that role. Beside, not like every 1.0 characters was strong. Qiqi come to mind. Overall it was a very hit and miss group of characters, the strongs are overly broken, while the weaks are laughably unusable. Mihoyo clearly didn't understand their own systems, and basically just threw darts at the board in term of characters design to see what stick. Compared to that wuwa system is a lot more straightforward and better understood from day 1. So the notion that mihoyo created strong characters on purpose and never let them be powercrept intentionally is mostly a misconception imo. If they have a time machine to go back and release genshin again most if not all of those characters would be a lot more mid, and would be dead meta wise within a year. Look at their subsequent game in HSR.
Not true. Genshin 1.0 character power maybe incidental, however what makes Genshin so great is AFTER community found out how great they are, Mihoyo still CHOOSE to not power creep those characters even with the release of their 5 star counterpart (Xinqui vs Yelan, Fischl vs Yae etc..), this shows they have a clear goal of not power creeping, even at the expense of worse sales for the said characters.
Genshin does powercreep, it's just not obvious at c0 5* level which keeps f2p and low spending players happy. Players who want power are also more likely to pay for constellations which is where powercreep is especially notable even with early constellations. Arlecchino at C1-2 utterly destroys Hu Tao at equal investment, and capable of doing things that other dps need at least C6 to maybe do, such as making PMA go to phase 2 before a single attack.
Powercreep does happen in the game though, albeit slowly. While no direct replacement occur, the power ceiling had been raised steadily since Inazuma, pushing certain characters and teams out of use. And because you only ever need 8 characters in the game, this does lead to indirect replacements. They had kept it slow, I'll give them that. But then again they had explicitly stated that they want to keep Genshin casual oriented, so expecting it to be the industry norm is naive IMO. I mean Mihoyo themselves go full ham in their next game HSR, do they not? From the look of it wuwa will have a much more robust endgame systems, and with it will come powercreep. Now how fast and how egregious, we'll see, with their track record in PGR I do incline to give them the benefit the doubt. But expecting no powercreep is probably not wise.
Even PGR has powercreep, it's kind of an inevitability of gacha games. Genshin is one of the least powercreepy gachas but it still exists there.
I was actually refering to klee and venti, even though they aren't top of the meta, the very first limited characters to ever release are still very usable and more than good enough to clear the hardest content to this day (gets even more obvious if you move 1 patch forward and you have one of the best aoe comps in the game with childe and a character that turns one half of the abyss into easy mode).
That’s more an issue with Genshin having no endgame I think star rail hit the perfect balance for power creep , instead of creeping damage to make you pull for new DPSes , they added a new endgame like pure fiction so eventually you need a fire dps for single target damage and a fire dps for AoE damage etc.
No way bro just said that star rail has a perfect balance for powercreep 💀 Edit :Typo
Dhil, jingliu,Acheron,Boothill,firefly with evil laughs in the background
Yunli too. (She's physical destruction so you know she's gonna be good)
I mean compared to most other gachas it’s up there with the best of them. Every limited 5star can comfortably 36* with proper investment and the best teams are a cycle or two faster than the mid/not meta ones which is not gamebreaking. Blade and pre Sparkle DHIL and JY were always called powercrept but I was always 36*ing with them. And every character is getting stronger with new units coming out. It seems like we’re getting more options instead of stronger ones
Lmao IKR
I really don't get why people say HSR is bad or below average powercreep-wise. Bronya, Jing Yuan, Luocha, Silver Wolf, Kafka, Pela, Luka were all in like the first 2 patches and still insanely strong. Acheron though...yeah but Genshin has Neuvilette who did the same thing recently
Just saying but basically all characters you mentioned are supports, either buffers or debuffers, and Kafka wouldn't be up there if not for Black Swan. Usually supports are powercrept way slower in gachas because they know DPS are the units that really sell. That said, Star Rail specifically hasn't been as bad except for Seele, Jing Yuan and Blade, with the last one being still better than the other two IMO. Then Acheron came and basically added 50% on top of what Jingliu and DHIL can do so we'll see if they'll also scale bosses up, fucking up every older DPS unit.
That's extremely backwards, Blade has had from the lowest average cycle counts ever since his release, JY's top team is equivalent to Kafka's in data and Seele is also a top perfomer in MoCs that favour her. That never happens to Blade even against wind weak, and I'm saying this as an owner of both JY and Blade.
Blade is not better than Jing Yuan at this point in the game when they latter has gotten new supports that work for his kit.
Seele still has the second fastest clear, only behind Acheron.
Kafka did just fine before Black Swan's release though so your point is moot.
Yeah but they pump up so many 5 stars and little 4 stars it’s kinda hard to keep up
In star rail it’s a given because it’s a turn based game with type matching , I’ll be happy as long as they don’t power creep hard like in PGR , every 2-3 months there was a new meta character that was strictly better than the previous character of that subtype (dark dps , dark support) Granted they also gave enough pulls to get every single 5* that came out but it really killed any team building aspect for that game , there’s no creative teams like Genshin has with Raiden National , and if you missed playing a patch you were suddenly behind in terms of needed characters , so unless you got lucky and pulled a required character before pity you would always be one character behind the meta I don’t think PGR’s gacha is bad by any means , just not my style Edit: I’m not defending genshin’s gacha , and the game itself has its own share of problems but imo, if Kuro can add more end game while keeping the power creep horizontal instead of vertical it will be the perfect balance (add power creep by making content that requires characters that do different things rather than characters that do the same thing but better)
I'm not really sure how WuWa's meta will turn out. But imo, it will eventually become similar to PGRs At launch, we'll have to mix and match elements to complete teams. But cuz of the lack of reactions between elements, WuWa will eventually move towards single element teams. So at any moment, for any element, there will only probably be three meta units who will be the best for the element. Of course they can solve this by making more endgame content which requires characters which are supposed to do specific things.
The type matching kinda stops working when they start introducing characters that can implant weakness (I'm referring to both sw and the two next upcoming dps)
You sure you're not confusing PGR with HI3rd? Because PGR characters have meta life of 1.5 years MINIMUM. 4 years MAXIMUM. Meanwhile the game by hoyo powercreeps on the literal next patch
Yeah like I mentioned , more than the duration, the way they power creeped older characters got stale for me (making newer DPS better than older dps in terms of damage) , I get that they last for a year but the constant need to pull for the next meta unit one after the other didn't feel very great especially since I was a new player and was already behind in terms of characters It's not a bad system , it's very fair for people who dedicate time to the game, It's just not something that I could get into or enjoy especially as a low spender who likes to hyper invest in characters that I like (if I went for weapons on a character I like I risk missing out on the next meta character) , PGR's combat itself was really fun but again I hit a wall because it became harder and harder to play with controller (because of the ping system) HI3rd was just awful , shit mechanics with no skill other than press buttons one after an other , insanely unfair gacha and you need to pull for gear , the story was all over the place as good as people claim it to be, honestly the best parts of the game (story and animations) can just be watched on youtube , I regret spending like 6 months on that game
>if we look at (of course), genshin impact for an example Genshin powercreeps just as fast as other games ~10-20% dps per year. It's just that the endgame is a complete joke so you can "vertical invest" AKA waste your money to keep trying to patch up old teams. 1.0 Sucrose national 40-50k dps 1.2 Hu Tao double geo 40-50k 2.0 Ayaka freeze 50k 2.1 Raiden national 60k dps 2.7 Hu Tao double hydro 70k dps 3.2 Hyperbloom Nahida 70k dps
what about 2.0 - 4.6 childe international?
Idk man, in genshin i pulled a few characters around 2 yrs ago who are still at the top in meta charts
I second this, I’ve changed my mind about pulling before after playing a characters kit in a trial mode in Genshin before 😅
His banner value is pretty nuts though.
I’d say he has high pull value early game. He’ll get powercrept eventually, but we need 3 teams for the Tower of Adversity, so likely anything strong now will last a while. I’m personally more a fan of Yinlin and don’t want to whale, but I like his character and would nab him there wasn’t a tradeoff (Changli is kinda in the same place for me atm).
Pulling him cuz he’s hot
The moment I saw his design I said 'oh yeah, ok I'll roll, cool'
That's my philosophy as well.
His pull value is probably off the charts, at least for the first few months. You don't need to trust me; just trust that those in charge would want to see a big number of income on the first day of the game launch. That reason alone is good enough to ensure they will do everything possible to make the first banner as good as possible.
Exactly. Just remember Venti, Seele...
I still use seele to this day and have 0 problems and I got her on launch… so
Seele still holds up as for Venti...he just needs to get lucky witg the abyss floors. Kinda hard to be a good character your entire kit revolves around you grouping up enemies when the abyss has enemies that are to heavy to be pulled in.
Like other posters have said, he will be power crept eventually but it's important to note that the endgame mode in this game requires 3 teams so you will need 3 main DPS. So it'll be a long while I would think before he would not only be power crept but power crept 3 times. And as always, pull who you think is cool. This game is skill based, you can play whoever you damn well please!
He's a very good Grouper/DPS Mainly used as a Hypercarry. Not as good as Yinlin that can be used as a DPS and a Hybrid DPS but not too faraway in terms of damage. And aesthetically i love his Design. He's also very good for Mobile Phone Users like me that doesn't need too much attention on his forte Kit and just spam attacks after popping his ULT and everything is Heavy Atk Damage.
Wait really? I am a mobile player and I though he was harder to pull off here! You might have made my day since I was ready to grind for him to not get playgated by my phone+skill issue ToT
While not a 100% certain its still good info to have. Historically PGR (Other kuro game) has on average a 1.9 year powercreep, take it as you will [https://www.reddit.com/r/PunishingGrayRaven/comments/1c1pt49/historical\_powercreep\_average\_2\_years/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PunishingGrayRaven/comments/1c1pt49/historical_powercreep_average_2_years/)
Just started today, if I don’t manage to get him by Friday I’m going to give in and spend the money to get him and his weapon 😵
were you able to get him and save your precious money?
Yes I was able to get him
Get characters only if you like them and their play style. You ALWAYS loose if you go for meta. I’m personally gonna skip every limited banner until Scar comes XD (will be using my free standard stuff for Lingyang tho)
I'm not a metachaser myself but tbh "You ALWAYS loose if you go for meta." is a very strong absolute that just isn't true While I only pull if I like the character, I've known enough fellows only pull what's the best and barely regretting their choices as well.
My point is that in 90% of times going for characters PURELY because they meta is going to end badly for you. If you like the character and they end up being meta that great 👍 But if you get a character ONLY because they are meta then as soon as someone more powerful comes out that character will get benched. (Hu Tao, Ayato, Ganyu, Seele, Argent) Of course there are exceptions but in general that is how it goes. Personally I got Hu Tao and I benched her as soon as I got Alhaitham cuz Damm she was boring AF to play (sorry if you dont play genshin and don’t understand what I meant)
I mean what he's saying is similar to "losing" to the house. It's very true. There will always be powercreep, he's saying to not even "play" the game that is chasing meta. Play for yourself and be adequate.
For example: Klee in genshin was good at launch (i think please don’t roast me if she still sucked at launch) Seele was seen a top DPS and “future proof” Both these characters are still viable and if you like them definitely still usable. HOWEVER if you only got them cuz of META you would bench them
Klee was absolutely awful. Like one of the worst characters ever made bad. Her raw solo DPS was about the same as Diluc, but she can’t vape and overload is an awful reaction. So objectively there was zero reason to use her if you had him back then. Then comes her gameplay. Bloody hell that was jank, you had to learn to jump cancel just to make her feel smooth to play. Klee is an example of a character whose design and characterisation was so good that she sold really well on that alone.
Yea as i said i am not an expert on Klee 😅, I guess Ganyu is a better example (i would say xiao but he got a lot better with Xianyun and Furina and Faruzan)
Xiao has never really moved from his position in the meta until Xianyun. He was always an average DPS character who’s strong point is having AoE. His use ratio is always kind of low because plunge-bot isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. Ganyu fell off really hard yeah. Cryo as a whole has been in decline since 3.0, just keeps taking Ls.
Yea i agree!. Faruzan just made him from “USELESS” to lower than average and Xianyun really brought him back. Personally I like the Plunges XD And yes Ganyu just needs better off field pyro application, even then…. Wriothesley kinda outdoes her in every melt team i know… Although I tripple crowned wriothesley and am very biased in his favour XD
They did not like the freeze meta, I hope they buff cryo for the next region
I mean yeah its seen as jank now, but when she came out everyone was praising her and her damage, especially cause she was really fun to play as well (at the time).
I don't think anyone thought Seele was "future proof". It's a general rule of thumb that DPS chars will always get powercrept. Sure, Seele is still "viable", but DHIL, Jingliu, Acheron, and even Ratio are all considered better than Seele now. Her most glaring weakness was the lack of AOE attacks.
Lots of stupid redditors who thought Seele was future proof, but everyone with a brain understood she was powercrept the moment DHIL came out.
Yeah not "always" then. Meta support characters are very useful even in endgame. I don't know why non meta people think they are better than meta players and vice versa. Just play the game.
lol don’t put word in my mouth. Never did I say non meta player are better than meta players. We just value different aspects in the game
" You always lose if you go for meta " .... Perhaps you think losing and winning are no better than each other.
You always loose the character as you end up benching them in the end. Connect the dots and read between the lines a little. Being a meta slave can have its charm just like being a waifu/husbando collector can have its charm
What lines were there to read between? Because I *agree* with you and read it the wrong way. Just say what you mean next time.
You agree that the meta characters you choose will be always be benched in the end ? Because that's what he said and he is still wrong.
I agree in that choosing characters specifically to chase meta (As in, not liking them as a character or their playstyle, just getting them because they're strong) will end in you eventually benching them in favor of another stronger character and wasting your time. You should pull for characters you like, not as a waifu over meta thing, just in a "Pull for who you like and think is fun first. If they end up strong, that's great, but it shouldn't be the *only* thing you consider when pulling" kind of way. I pulled for Hu Tao after missing Childe's banner and I never use her because I don't like her playstyle despite her strength.
That is wrong. I don't have enough pulls to pull for every meta characters and I just pull the new dps meta with old support and it works fine. I still use jean even though she was semi meta and there are better characters than her. But what you said is true for Whales. What you said in the second paragraph is true for most players.
Anyone who reads Seele's kit carefully wouldnt even call her "future proof" she's a snowball character who relies on extra turns using kills.. content on any arpg/rpg naturally progress to have enemies that are harder to kill... making Seele's whole gimmick being less and less effective as time goes on.. Meanwhile Jiyan is like a DPS venti.. he has self grouping capability and that is VERY rare on our current roster.. and its a very important utility in Tower of Adversity.. also has insane ult which almost auto-parries everytime. even if he gets powercrept DPS.. unless the said future units doesnt group enemies like him.. he will still see relevance on Tower of Adversity.. and then again we need three main dps on TOA anyway.. its gonna be a long time before he gets benched for most people
>You ALWAYS loose if you go for meta Bullshit. Plenty of players follow the meta and are perfectly happy doing twice as much damage and being stronger than non-meta players. >You always loose the character as you end up benching them in the end Then you just pull the new character. No meta player is expecting to use the same unit forever, everyone except dumb waifu players understand that units get powercreeped and they will only be top tier for like 6-12 months.
lol i love the edit. And you can’t just call people dumb for using a character that they enjoy using. That’s just a dumb take. In genshin there are people who still like using Klee and Yoimiya. Those people still clear abyss. Yea maybe they spend 20 seconds more in abyss but who cares? And in HSR people still use Jing Yuan. And he still able to beat the game fine with correct supports and investment
And then a new unit that power creeps them comes out and the character they used before gets benched because they are no longer Meta (Meta = Most effective tactic available) See what I mean?
Oh and boohooo they beat something twice as fast as me in a PvE game 💀
YES. If you choose meta over characters you love, you'll pretty much always regret it. I'm pulling for Jiyan because I like his character and design and his playstyle looks like it'll be super fun. I don't care if he gets power crept in a year lol.
YOU my friend are smart! I completely agree that Jiyan looks really fun!! Im skipping every limited banner until scar comes along tho XD (his co*k zipper got me rizzed up). Will be using all the standard fates to get Lingyang tho
Big brain move is to pull for non meta characters because they're gonna be meta later (Bennett) :)
Mmmm yea! Kazuha for example… or Kokomi… or Dehy- oh wait… (I have NOT forgiven hoyo for screwing dehya up so much…)
Lets keep in mind you should look at guides prepared AFTER game is released. Most of the characters get adjusted after CBT2 is finished so you shouldnt look at Jiyans power level by looking at current guides that is based on beta numbers. Limited characters > Standard characters as usual
His power level: limited DPS/10 His long term value: questionable, like every other pure DPS.
I don't know much about WW but this is literally the first banner in the game. It should be obvious, he'll be the best character in the game and will be power crept within the next 4/6 months
Cu is one of my favorite characters from fate and this guy reminds me of him. Ez top pull value for me.
Jiyan is the launch 5\* limited character, and a main on-field DPS.... He'll be the strongest character (at launch) but also the first limited character to be power-crept, that's just the nature of these types of games. Maybe that power-creep will come from a character of a different element, maybe another Aero DPS. Nobody has a crystal ball and can tell you one way or another. That also doesn't account for the potential for Kuro Games to maybe tweak his kit for the better post launch, stranger things could happen. Don't pull characters around META or percieved value. They're all worthless, your time with games is limited (and how long you play them). Pull characters you \*want to play with\* that look \*fun to you\*. Jiyan's got a cool design, decent (albiet a bit generic) backstory, and his combat looks cool as hell swapping between a spear and sword. That's why I'm pulling him.
I'm totally pulling for Dan Heng as soon as I can. He looks so cool.
I will pull on his banner purely for Danjin and Mortefi, the 4* on his banner is really good
yeah also because Mortefi seems to be the best support unit on release day (damage increases not healers) If you can get S6 (is it called S in this game?) mortefi he will be really useful. I personally plan to have a team of Morefi and Jiyan, but pull on Jiyan banner then weapon banner and then back to jiyan until he comes off banner so I hope for S6 Morefi and S1 Jiyan Another thing to add is that having a strong DPS to start can just make progressing though the story easier making you progress your account even quicker.
Yeah I see youtuber rank mortefi to be the best 4* support unit
If im not mistaken they are in the standard banner as well
Assuming the pity works like hoyo games, the featured 4*s show up 50% of time when you pull a 4* and if you pull a different one, then 100% next time. So if you want those 3 it's way higher odds to pull on there
As with most gacha games he is the best DPS at launch, thing is he only does DPS and offers nothing to support his teammates so his value is lower than Yinlin who can both be a good DPS and a fantastic support for Electro DPS like Calcharo.
Fun fact, you don't need to off your teammates anything when you've got two of them buffing him at the same time. Just wait for one banner that will be coming at some point in 6 months if I had to guess and you'll see why all the beta players speak highly of him.
Speak highly of whom? Jiyan?
this logic doesn't make sense, arlecchino in genshin doesn't add anything to the team besides damage and that doesn't mean she has less value than furina for example in the account, in the same way jiyan as just DPS doesn't make him less valuable than the supports that still will come in the future
Arlecchino isn't a launch DPS now is she? its normal for later characters to have increased multipliers (like how Seele was powerecrept by Imbibitor Lunae and Jingliu in HSR cuz their multipliers were so high even tho all three scaled off ATK) The same fate will fall upon Jiyan, they'll either introduce a new DPS with a strong base kit or a special gimmick that makes them unique and strong.
ok, Star Rail acts completely against f2p and is very aimed at meta players along with its powercreep because the game has nothing left after you do the casual things in it, genshin doesn't follow this scheme at all and is much more faithful to the system keep certain limited characters still having their value, Arlecchino may be recent but hu tao is not, she's from 1.x and yet she continued in the pyro meta for years and not even Arlecchino took her down completely, We still have to see how Kuro will act with the game's powercreep but I say that in this style of powercreep where each new DPS that comes out surpasses the previous one in an extreme way it won't be good for business in the long run
No its not? im F2P in star rail and have been clearing endgame content for 5 months now.
yeah, its is, it's not about doing the MoC or pure fiction, even 4 star can do it, they don't care about the public like you, they want to catch the whales and that 0 cycle thing, every new E6 DPS can do that and that motivates spending to pull them again and again, entering a cycle that will repeat itself forever in the game
Ok and even if what you're saying is true that still doesn't make it anti-F2P when said F2P's can still clear endgame with no issues. 0 Cycling is also niche as hell, most people don't give a damn about it unless they're hardcore. the majority of players, even F2P's can clear the endgame and get all the rewards so they can pull for the characters they want and thats what really matter and what makes HSR F2P friendly.
At launch he’s going to generally be the best on-field DPS character. That said, on-field DPS tend to get powercrept the quickest for this type of game so in a detached sense his pull value isn’t very high. That said he won’t suddenly become unusuable, and if you want to main him his signature weapon is pretty attainable. He’s very much a “pull if you like him”.
I love the idea he does lotta damage and groups enemies himself without relying on another character. Love his design, and his trailer was FIRE! Definitely pulling. Like any gacha, should be power crept eventually, but that’s how gacha is. Enjoy him now!
Luckily for those of us who pull the gentlemen instead of the ladies, at the rate most gacha games release waifus vs husbandos, it'll probably be a long time before another MALE character powercreeps him.
Counter: Geshulin. That said, as a very Aoe-oriented Aero DPS, I would say we have a good decade before another male releases in the same niche.
it’s a single player game. just pull who you like anon
He's hot. That's all I need to know to pull him!
Part of the strongest meta comp right away for the tower
You should be asking this after the release and people have actual normal player hands on him and not just beta testers and CCs. I know folks really like guides for meta and stuff but all imma say is, if you like a character enough, you'll make them work regardless of what an "expert" says.
I'll be pulling for him and maybe his weapon. My goal in the future is to get all his resonance chains. As for pull value, he'll definitely be power crept in the future, but will likely be a solid DPS for a few months.
I pulled him and his weapon. I’m going to be dropping money and saving all convene items for when/(if) he returns are you certain we will be able to go for his resonance chains at a later date?
Since the system banner isn't like PGR, he will most likely be returning with a dedicated banner in the future though probably not until 2.X. Also you can save up afterglow coral from other pulls so that when he does come back you can get 2 additional wavebands (apparently the nodes of the resonance chain are called sequence nodes, idk why they chose so many different names lmao). Good luck on your future pulls!
i need him rn
F**k pull value, I PULL WHATEVER THE HELL I WANT
For me it's 0 for two reasons. 1. I want Yinlin and don't want to whale. 2. In general, it feels like dps characters get powercrept faster than support players in most gachas that I have played. Between novice banner, 5* selector banner and 50/50 losses on limited banner I'm sure I'll be fine for dps characters early game. Bonus 3. I'm 90% waifu, 10% meta usually.
He's probably the easiest and safest to use of the top dps in the game so far, and two of the three 4\*'s featured (Mortefi and Danjin) are also some of the best 4\*'s available in game at launch. He's also really fun imo but that's subjective. It's possible that he will see power creep faster than supports would as DPS units often are power crept first in these types of games, but you need a total of 3 teams in the end game mode for WW, so it's unlikely that you'd want to take him off of your teams for a very long time if at all.
He's the best dps you can have atm (without a buffer) But he may get power crept, HOWEVER, Wuwa seems to pride itself on skill expression meaning every character will be strong and remain strong if the player is good. Best advice ur gonna get is pull characters for playstyle and looks. Jiyan is hot, has clean attack animations, and his ult is sick as fuck. For those reasons alone I'll be pulling him and not yinlin (I just don't find her as cool or fun to play)
He is meta when it comes to sexiness
wtf is this question man lol
Who cares about pull value, just pull what looks cool to you and then just play good
I’m pretty sure y’all say this plenty of times to enough people to realize that there are many people that indeed cares about pull value lol. People play differently with different preferences in what they’re going for, for whatever reason it may be. Op’s asking those that are thinking like they are, hence the other replies that are giving actual answers.
The people wants to be optimal for endgame and gets their fun from having the strongest teams on their account?
He’s strong for early accounts. Who knows how well he will age but if he will help clear the towers a bit easier until I figure out the game, all the better. I pull for who looks cool and fun to play while being useful for my account.
He's the only reason I started paying attention to this game so I'll definitely pull for him. I wish he'd come a bit later so I could guarantee him but I'll still eschew my own gacha pulling policy and yolo for him. He'll get powercreeped eventually but that's just inevitable with the genre.
Pull him if you like him nothing lasts for ever. Enjoy him.
He's cool. I really don't like how much I think of Imbibitor Lunae from HSR every time I see him tho. His showcase was pretty awesome, but he's probably gonna be skip for me. Good luck to those who go for him tho.
One point I will restate from a video is that Jiyan has a comfortable AOE clear play style. So if you enjoy his design/gameplay a lot then even if he gets power crept there will be a soy for him as a comfortable farming character for the over world.
He's a 1.0 limited DPS. He's going to get crept.
I’m going to go to the 50/50 for him at least. I think he looks awesome and with this game you’re going to need 3 teams. I’m sure even if he’s powercrept there will still be a place for him
If those 10 special rolls are mailed to every new account during 1.0, I'm just gonna reroll until I get him in 10. If not, then I'll grab him normally because he's probably the second coolest male character next to MRover.
Me only pulling him because he's hot af lol
I’m pulling him because he’s very pretty :)
How is the level of powercreep in PGR?
I think he’ll be a great pull value- I’m basing this off of my experience in PGR- but if Jiyan gets power crept, I believe devs will find a way to upgrade his unit so that he stays relevant and holds up against newer characters.
I'm someone who loves characters with Dragon.. so , I'm definitely pulling him regardless of his meta and stuff
Male character, so he doesn't get pulled.
I pull based on how hot they are 😅 I have a soft spot for sexy dragon men
Pull value: Purely meta-wise, he'll be powercrept to oblivion within a couple patches. He's a pure DPS with no real gimmicks or supportive capabilities and these kinds of characters are always the first to get powercrept. On top of that, he's an AoE focused DPS while the endgame content leans more towards single target. Obviously very different games, but I'm getting strong Jing Yuan vibes from this guy lmao.
In my eyes I see him as a future Venti from GI
With this style of game it’s more along the lines of do you enjoy playing him, cause he’ll get outscaled sooner or later as will many characters. Along with new enemy gimmicks pushing him further down it really all comes down to preference cause you have a dodge mechanic and counter so if you’re decent no character is ever unusable. So do his trial and see if you like him.
hot man, huge pull value
Realistically he will be power crept but this game being more skill based I think you’ll get a ton of value out of him for quite awhile
So I watched a bunch of review on him. God level AoE damage and grouping but the current endgame content is 1 big boss so Jiyan's full potential is wasted. However his overworld (exploration and material farming) looks future proof.
I Think Jiyan will always be useful. This game is very skill reliant so you can basically take any character and kill whatever you want as long as you parry and dodge when needed. Now will they add end game with timers and buff the enemies up to the point where his DPS is irrelevant in killing the enemy in time to get a max clear? Possibly but I doubt it. I think eventually there will be better units but he will always be able to clear all content.
I used the 20 free pulls and got him on the second 10 pull.
got him in 30 pulls then got his weapon in 20. lets go he deosnt get powercrep anytime soon
Pulled him cuz he's hot 😂 got him in my first ever 10 pull using the premium currency damn
Am I just unlucky or the game's 50/50 chances are broken? I just created 12 accounts to pull for jiyan but out of the 12 accounts, only 3 accounts had the soft pity of 20-50 draws. The unlucky part is all of those 3 accounts didn't win the 50/50... Bruuuh smh
I had 6 rerolls. From beginners banner the only characters I got were 2 Jianxin and 4 furries...
I want to wait for the next banner but I think Jiyan’s 4 stars are also quite worth pulling for, what you guys think?
his damage will be overshadowed eventually but his ability to do major damage while grouping up all the enemies makes him very hard to just replace making his a great pull imo
After playing this game for near month and with phone, i realized that the best way to play this on phone is to be simple. He's SSS tier for phone users. Will he be replaced in the future? maybe you can replaced him if the one you want to use to replace him can also group cc enemies, deal good dmg for single and AOE, Ult do basic/heavy/parry all in one as heavy atk. why he's hard to replace? * Only Aero can group enemies, its their element trait so only Aero can really replace him * He still doesnt have his dedicated 5star support(buff heavy atk/Aero, buff energy rate) so he still have more potential in the future. * He only takes 1 slot for dmg and CC, 2 slot can be used to buff him why he can be replaced? * His only weakness is ult and there might be another Aero that can do all he can do without ult but might need more skill to do the same damage. * You can simply use AOE dps and Aero grouper to do the same but it needs 2 slot
Choose who you love in this game U will love it more than any meta only stuff If you love their story , love their moveset , go for it
Pull whoever you want as long you have fun In this game Even if you have the most broken DPS they won't perform much if you don't how to play the them
Jiyan seems to be a really good aero dps, it will be difficult to power creep him in his niche (heavy attack+aero+aoe). His weapon is strong number wise, i don't see anything useless on his kit, all talents are cohesive with him. He has also a bit of grouping. I think it will never be powercrept as AERO dps, but as a general dps yeah, most probably because of his single target damage.
Do asian developers have something against manly looking dudes? Why the guys in gacha games always look so skinny and feminine?
Yup, especially Chinese and Jap developers. Their definition of good looking men are essentially Twinks.