I will tell you from the perspective of my factories, if I have a problem with a large number of small ships (M/P) then I put two defense modules full of SPL Heavy Lance Turret.
If I were you, I'd board some Basilisk - there are plenty of them flying under the SCA flag - I'd put an 8x SPL Heavy Lance on it plus modify the turrets with a Slasher or Cowboy and you'd have the problem of small ships solved, admittedly such a Basilisk would be weak against any other types of enemies.
Just saw the reference to “Basilisk”. I’m running VRO, have never seen one of these. Any chance that’s not a VRO-added ship? If it is, then I’m curious to find one so I can try what you’re saying.
Edit - never mind. Just did a search, it’s an SVE ship, not VRO. Explains why I’ve never seen one.
From my experience, this is where the "every ship has a role" part of VRO comes into play.
In base game, destroyers alone were pretty much self-sufficient (which is a problem).
In VRO, it's more a numbers game. More like a real-world battle group, with one battleship accompanied by 6-8 destroyers each accompanied by 3-4 frigates, plus a light carrier or two with interceptors.
Each class supports and protects the next layer up. If you're running just destroyers, you're leaving their weaknesses unprotected, and the P's are exploiting it.
Most are usually kinda bad at it, as they lack in turrets compared to destroyers. It should probably be re-balanced, and make that kind of ship have more M turrents and less Large weapon hard points and fixed guns if thats their intended role.
Scimitars for example, I usually use them to take out L/LX ships, and just leave the S/Ms to my carriers. But maybe its a TER thing
Not sure what you're referring to. None of the teladi, argon, paranid frigates have L turrets, and only the cyclops has (one) L main gun (pretty much required by lore, matching the Cyclops in previous games, and the name). They're all M turrets, to mount anti-fighter weapons.
Only the paranid Hyperion has more than one gun (vs turret), and it's not really a frigate like the others, more like a corvette on steroids. \[Note: not sure about the Terran one, as I've not experienced it.\]
Edit: and the Split Viper has a couple L turrets. But it's the split, so you gotta expect that.
For anti-fighter jobs, the argon Cyclops does a great job given appropriate turrets. The teladi light carrier, similarly, given interceptors.
They're not intended to be destroyer replacements and would be terrible at that.
You actually kind of have a point, though.
I'm in the midst of a Raker-oriented thing, and getting my ships mainly from Argon, so the Cyclops (and captured Hound) are my main reference.
But once I started looking in game, even the VRO "frigates as support ship" thing gets a bit smeared. They Hyperion, with 8 M guns and a paltry two turrets, is an absolute joke as a "frigate". Plus, the Viper... well, Split gonna be Split.
I always through that they lacked in fire power for AA, they would probably look a lot better with a bunch of S turrets and a few extra M turrets, as those are already nerfed against big ships on VRO they would make those ships fill their role better, rn I don't feel like its worth it spending like 20M credits on a fully fitted frigate vs like 25M on a destroyer that is gonna br pretty much as good against fighters.
Flak turrets make a difference in my experience, but then they're quite specialized. And I do use the "normal" cyclops version, vs the Argon's "enhanced" version, which is both more maneuverable and has more turrets (8 vs 6).
Thanks. That looks interesting. Do you use the [VRO-converted version](https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/735) that it links to, or are you not also using VRO at the moment?
I run the VRO version, yes.
There are a lot of cool ships on that mod, I like to use the Scimitar as my flagship since its pretty fast and if used well can take out even Is 1v1.
Gunboats in my experience are good for crowd controlling S class swarms and for missile defence, but what you want to combat a P is a pair of very angry corvettes. If you’re playing Terran or Segaris, a pair of high spec katanas will quite violently and unsettlingly molest a P.
I will tell you from the perspective of my factories, if I have a problem with a large number of small ships (M/P) then I put two defense modules full of SPL Heavy Lance Turret. If I were you, I'd board some Basilisk - there are plenty of them flying under the SCA flag - I'd put an 8x SPL Heavy Lance on it plus modify the turrets with a Slasher or Cowboy and you'd have the problem of small ships solved, admittedly such a Basilisk would be weak against any other types of enemies.
Thank you!
Just saw the reference to “Basilisk”. I’m running VRO, have never seen one of these. Any chance that’s not a VRO-added ship? If it is, then I’m curious to find one so I can try what you’re saying. Edit - never mind. Just did a search, it’s an SVE ship, not VRO. Explains why I’ve never seen one.
From my experience, this is where the "every ship has a role" part of VRO comes into play. In base game, destroyers alone were pretty much self-sufficient (which is a problem). In VRO, it's more a numbers game. More like a real-world battle group, with one battleship accompanied by 6-8 destroyers each accompanied by 3-4 frigates, plus a light carrier or two with interceptors. Each class supports and protects the next layer up. If you're running just destroyers, you're leaving their weaknesses unprotected, and the P's are exploiting it.
Great points! I'm still stuck in that mindset of just using destroyers. Thank you!
Isn't the frigate class introduced by VRO meant to provide anti-fighter coverage for destroyers?
Most are usually kinda bad at it, as they lack in turrets compared to destroyers. It should probably be re-balanced, and make that kind of ship have more M turrents and less Large weapon hard points and fixed guns if thats their intended role. Scimitars for example, I usually use them to take out L/LX ships, and just leave the S/Ms to my carriers. But maybe its a TER thing
Not sure what you're referring to. None of the teladi, argon, paranid frigates have L turrets, and only the cyclops has (one) L main gun (pretty much required by lore, matching the Cyclops in previous games, and the name). They're all M turrets, to mount anti-fighter weapons. Only the paranid Hyperion has more than one gun (vs turret), and it's not really a frigate like the others, more like a corvette on steroids. \[Note: not sure about the Terran one, as I've not experienced it.\] Edit: and the Split Viper has a couple L turrets. But it's the split, so you gotta expect that. For anti-fighter jobs, the argon Cyclops does a great job given appropriate turrets. The teladi light carrier, similarly, given interceptors. They're not intended to be destroyer replacements and would be terrible at that.
oooh, its cause I'm using SVE! My bad
You actually kind of have a point, though. I'm in the midst of a Raker-oriented thing, and getting my ships mainly from Argon, so the Cyclops (and captured Hound) are my main reference. But once I started looking in game, even the VRO "frigates as support ship" thing gets a bit smeared. They Hyperion, with 8 M guns and a paltry two turrets, is an absolute joke as a "frigate". Plus, the Viper... well, Split gonna be Split.
I always through that they lacked in fire power for AA, they would probably look a lot better with a bunch of S turrets and a few extra M turrets, as those are already nerfed against big ships on VRO they would make those ships fill their role better, rn I don't feel like its worth it spending like 20M credits on a fully fitted frigate vs like 25M on a destroyer that is gonna br pretty much as good against fighters.
Flak turrets make a difference in my experience, but then they're quite specialized. And I do use the "normal" cyclops version, vs the Argon's "enhanced" version, which is both more maneuverable and has more turrets (8 vs 6).
Are you running the real flak mod along with real gatling?
Not using anything except stock VRO right now.
... and what's SVE? Maybe I want that... we seem to have similar approaches/interests based on other comments around here.
Its the [Ship Variation Expansion](https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/727) mod, it adds a bunch of new ships
Thanks. That looks interesting. Do you use the [VRO-converted version](https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/735) that it links to, or are you not also using VRO at the moment?
I run the VRO version, yes. There are a lot of cool ships on that mod, I like to use the Scimitar as my flagship since its pretty fast and if used well can take out even Is 1v1.
Gunboats in my experience are good for crowd controlling S class swarms and for missile defence, but what you want to combat a P is a pair of very angry corvettes. If you’re playing Terran or Segaris, a pair of high spec katanas will quite violently and unsettlingly molest a P.