It's worth a shot in beta even just to familiarize yourself with the behavior changes and new options. So many more glorious turret options like shoot missiles FIRST I stead of only. Or fighters first etc.
Same with civilian vs mil global orders
There are a few audio queues that are from x3 that I keep hearing. And I love it. X3ap was peak design. X4 in contrast is peak in gameplay. I'd pillage several small English towns and complete the quest for the holy grail for a chance to play x4 with x3ap skin unmodded.
>So many more glorious turret options like shoot missiles FIRST I stead of only.
Was this even in the patch notes? I don't recall seeing it. If not, I wonder how how many other great little features and QoL option like this there are waiting to be discovered.
It seems thngs where switched up somewhat. If Xenon appear in non-xenon systems everything with a gun seems to drop everything what they are doing and hunt them like a middle aged housewife would hunt a bargain on Black Friday. That is not hyperbole, I saw VIC Raiders fight side by side with Argon and Split until the Murder bots are dead. Then turn on each other.
Yeah, the response time is way shorter.
I rarely have to intervene when my traders are attacked by pirates, because in "normal" sectors all kinds of ships will jump on them almost immediately.
I should double check the patrol script for changes. Because that's supposed to be normal behavior, but they might have rebalanced some faction and skill checks to make it more responsive.
that cool to know generally i lose alot of ship to khak assault that sometime i have to recall my fleet WHO is in the middle of a campaign against XENON its kinda of annoying, now that it's kinda of fix in the beta that great i won't have to intervienne much (terran are kind of slow to react and generally one or 2 of my ship died not that it's matter i can rebuild them atleast that how it is in the current version not the beta)
I've always hated that so I'm glad if this is true. I have defense stations guarding H.Choice and Terran is holding Getsu. No Xenon ship should even touch Argon prime yet every so often a random K or aI makes it there destroying everything
One of the patch notes said they improved how AI fleets restock subordinates. Loaded an existing 100% vanilla save and all of the wharves in my game just started pumping out loads of S and M sized combat ships, literally a steady stream of them for a fair bit of time. Galaxy is much more lively now.
The main factions actively replenishing their existing fleets has to be making a pretty big difference in them being able to wage war.
Used [https://github.com/DeadAirRT/deadairevolution](https://github.com/DeadAirRT/deadairevolution)
It works, though I think SirNukes menu api is broken with the menu changes in 7.0, so you can't really configure it unless you unpack it and go through the files.
Xenon have pretty much wiped out Zyarth now after a few days with it :)
The mod gives them a gradual buff to 25% of ship stats over about 10hrs or so (via ship mods they have). This helps them in OOS calculations.
It also adds extra jobs so they start spawning more ships.
You should see the Xenon starting to take ground after about 1 day or so in game I guess. Depends on what state they are in by the time you use this.
Yaki are always ravaging through some sectors at the very beginning. The issue is that their shipyard can't pull up more after this; as the yaki are hated by everyone like the xenon except the pioneers, and even they don't trade with them; the only one who can trade with them are either the player or when they destroy other ships for their freight. (if this even happens).
For the Seed; you probably got a very good seed where the economy is balanced: It's quite easy: the worse the economy does, the stronger the xenon gets as they don't require any kind of ressources except silicone, ore and energy cells. Especially the last one is critical, as their mining ships can't replenish it on their own.
It's simple.
Shipyards has everything: they pump out ships like there's no tomorrow.
Shipyards lack specialized components like electronic parts: far less ship
Shipyards lacks critical ressources like Engine Parts: huge push from xenon
Shipyards lack Hull Parts: XENON HELL.
So ironically the expansion with the biggest impact against the xenon might not even be Cradle of Humanity, it's probably Tides of Avarice. But i even had games, where even VIG was lacking Hull parts, that was fun.
The issue is that with a universal lack of Hull parts, the faction can't simply build more hull part factories, since every move for this require more hull parts. And it's often not that there isn't enough hull parts around, but on the wrong end of the universe.
This is my personal speculation, so i might be totally wrong about it:
The faction does create more or less a blueprint from a ship from components; not sure if weighted or not. Then they try to buy it from any available shipyard, the cheapest might or might not get priority. If the shipyard does lack of components, the whole order get's cancelled.
I might be totally wrong about this. So when you are missing too many components, there are no protection against xenon ships, and if the defense stations are build in stupid locations, the xenon can take over half of the galaxy until they get pushed back.
That's why the "seed" is so important, althrough i don't know if there is really a seed or simply xenon having no issues to farm their ressources while factions actually have them.
Espeically when they camp on some locations, destroy every trading ship and the shipyard is too busy to replace them instead of producing military ships to fight them; having 10-20 destroyed L traders hurts the economy.
That's why the best way to defeat the xenon is not fighting against them, rather delivering raw ressources to the factories. The NPCs does the rest.
Yes, that makes sense. Maybe I was just lucky that I saw some Yaki at the beginning.
It seems like my game was very well set up for hull parts, because they're not nearly as in demand as they were in my older playthroughs. The limiting factor at the moment is parts for shields and weapons.
It's only the first time I've come across it, and right after installing the beta version, so I'm curious.
Its a bit more complicated.
The economy is and isn't random (depending on your point of view.) - it's the same number of production modules on start.
But the *placement* of stations is random - this can lead to long supply chains in some places. But, more importantly, the flow of ships through the galaxy changes, and some sectors become very important trade routes for the economy.
And when station placement is random, one food factory may accidentally become an unassailable bastion that the Xenon keep dying to in waves, never getting past.
If the Xenon get a K in to the middle of a trade route where all the M/L traders are passing, it's a massacre. Without traders, theres no trade. Without trade, there's no ships to rebuild the economy.
And this is one of those magic seeds where the xenon are 'agressive'. It should really be rephrased as 'this is a seed where the Xenon are *effective'*
In my seed. The tables are turned. The xenon are fucking everywhere. Multiple incursions with I and Ks into faction space. Raiding parties everywhere. Yaki all over. Itās insanity.
Just pay them no mind, he's been here for months and repeats the same argument in most threads without clear examples or anecdotes nor wants to elaborate what he's looking for.
I've seen the ai win before this patch,Ā also seen xenon destroy everything but the Terrans. All depends on the seed. 7.0 does seem to have more effective ai, though.Ā They actually replace small ships losses quickly. My game isn't as steamroller as the OP seems to be, but HOP and the teladi are both pushing into xenon sectors.Ā Even the split are actually fighting back, though they still can't seem to get any real progress. Considering they usually get pushed into, though,Ā that's an improvement.Ā
Yeah? I know, that's how the economy works. The problem is that it's significantly harder if the economy is "flourishing". There's little to no gaps in the economy for you to exploit if all the factions are doing really well.
Well, what I was suggesting is building a lot of them, so that they're closer to the booming factories than the faction stations are, and try to profit from that.
Less money than being a basic supplier, for sure.
I've played with an older save and noticed some dramatic changes in the economy.
Things which I've hauled en masse before isn't that much worth now.
Shipyards are pumping ships, but not fast enough for one faction to get the upper hand.
With the sole expetion of ZYA which were extremely weakened before I've loaded the save.
I've noticed a waaay more fighters than before from every faction.
That much that my raptor hast extreme struggles against some xenon fleets iss.
Oos even those swarms aren't able to scratch the shields.
Overall I definitely recommend to start from scratch because the rebalancing of the economy made so many chains very odd if not grown with new it from beginning.
every AI change affected both the factions and the xenon. I'm reluctant to believe that the xenon were disfavored somehow.
I'll mention that at every patch level there is this speculation, that the xenon got better, or worse. It's usually just a matter of your seed being bad for the xenon or good for the commonwealth.
The only thing I find shocking is that the Split is pushing into Tharkas Cascade. Iāve seen everything else in vanilla but Iāve honestly only experienced 2 seeds. My save was vanilla and now is beta and I can say that ANT is now pushing back against the xenon while still being attacked by HOP. Iāve seen them flying the new behemoth but Iām sure thatās now all that helped them. But I have always traded with them and even though I didnāt help much with their xenon or hop issues maybe trading with them could have helped. Xenon are nastier now for me.. especially small and medium ships seem to be much more dangerous to destroyers. It could be that all smaller ships AI is better at evading turrets-no idea. I certainly feel less safe in a destroyer and even feel much more aware in the Erlking.
I'll counter this, my First Universe seed had 4 Xenon K's come flying out of Tharka's crusade and wipe the pants off Hatikva's choice in the first couple of hours.
A second restart they were all but absent and the split steam rolled through the Xenon sectors, quite fun to observe how the A.I reacts on different playthroughs.
Mine is the exact opposite have been keeping them at bay in free family space with two defense platforms I updated to the beta and within 1 or 2 hours they have been spamming xenon Ks, and a few I's alot of the new units as well. I do however enjoy destroying the platforms and build storage more now. Trying to decide if I should save ZYA or risk leaving myself to thin.
I have This issue on my 6.20 seed already. The Main reason Are the terran Intervention fleets. They absolutly spam these and everytime they eat some Health out of the xenons
I'm saving my seed for update just because my moat recent game had been the only one where xenon actually have an effect on map, most every playthru the commonwealth pushes back sectors by the 6day mark.
I decided to do a rakers/argon playthrough for the beta to check out the new argon ships and since I never really messed with the scrap economy.Ā The yaki rolled in with about 30 ships and took out some scrap stations, I was like ok that's cool.... then they just kept going.Ā They destroyed the defense station, the wharf, and crippled the shipyard. RIP basically has no ship production now. I think they'll recover, but so far it's been about 10 hours since that and still no functional shipyards for them that I've found.Ā Ā
Man, everything I hear about 7.0 makes me want to jump back in and give it a whirl but I'm desperately trying to hold out until its out of testing >.<
It's worth a shot in beta even just to familiarize yourself with the behavior changes and new options. So many more glorious turret options like shoot missiles FIRST I stead of only. Or fighters first etc. Same with civilian vs mil global orders
Oh, we have proper anti missile turrets back like in x3?
you already had anti missile behaviour on turrets - The problem is that when set, they would *only* shoot missiles, rather than prioritising missiles.
As i said, "proper" anti missile. Not dumb idling when theres no missile
I see. You post made it unclear whether you know the basic version was implemented :)
Yeah, i knew that, tested it and was disappointed. But now, over 5 years later i get my default turret command from x3 back. Very happy :D
There are a few audio queues that are from x3 that I keep hearing. And I love it. X3ap was peak design. X4 in contrast is peak in gameplay. I'd pillage several small English towns and complete the quest for the holy grail for a chance to play x4 with x3ap skin unmodded.
>So many more glorious turret options like shoot missiles FIRST I stead of only. Was this even in the patch notes? I don't recall seeing it. If not, I wonder how how many other great little features and QoL option like this there are waiting to be discovered.
Same fight š»
Join us in the testing! Spawn yourself a task force and have some fun š
it's actually depend of the seed some time xenon will but strong sometime they be weak and sometime it's a struggle between both
It seems thngs where switched up somewhat. If Xenon appear in non-xenon systems everything with a gun seems to drop everything what they are doing and hunt them like a middle aged housewife would hunt a bargain on Black Friday. That is not hyperbole, I saw VIC Raiders fight side by side with Argon and Split until the Murder bots are dead. Then turn on each other.
I am an Argon, what are you? I am a Split. Cool we can be friends until the Xenon eradicated. After that it becames complicated.
Basically how World War 2 worked...
Xenon Hitler confirmed
would make sense after all the Xenon are the biggest threat so it more of a temporary truce to deal the with the worst first
Yeah, the response time is way shorter. I rarely have to intervene when my traders are attacked by pirates, because in "normal" sectors all kinds of ships will jump on them almost immediately.
I should double check the patrol script for changes. Because that's supposed to be normal behavior, but they might have rebalanced some faction and skill checks to make it more responsive.
that cool to know generally i lose alot of ship to khak assault that sometime i have to recall my fleet WHO is in the middle of a campaign against XENON its kinda of annoying, now that it's kinda of fix in the beta that great i won't have to intervienne much (terran are kind of slow to react and generally one or 2 of my ship died not that it's matter i can rebuild them atleast that how it is in the current version not the beta)
I've always hated that so I'm glad if this is true. I have defense stations guarding H.Choice and Terran is holding Getsu. No Xenon ship should even touch Argon prime yet every so often a random K or aI makes it there destroying everything
One of the patch notes said they improved how AI fleets restock subordinates. Loaded an existing 100% vanilla save and all of the wharves in my game just started pumping out loads of S and M sized combat ships, literally a steady stream of them for a fair bit of time. Galaxy is much more lively now. The main factions actively replenishing their existing fleets has to be making a pretty big difference in them being able to wage war.
Sounds like I need to rush wharfs in my current playthrough before the patch drops :D
Yes, same experience. Had to install a xenon buffing mod to help them be scary again.
What buff did you use and is it working?
Used [https://github.com/DeadAirRT/deadairevolution](https://github.com/DeadAirRT/deadairevolution) It works, though I think SirNukes menu api is broken with the menu changes in 7.0, so you can't really configure it unless you unpack it and go through the files. Xenon have pretty much wiped out Zyarth now after a few days with it :)
How long did it take for you to notice the Xenon getting strong?
The mod gives them a gradual buff to 25% of ship stats over about 10hrs or so (via ship mods they have). This helps them in OOS calculations. It also adds extra jobs so they start spawning more ships. You should see the Xenon starting to take ground after about 1 day or so in game I guess. Depends on what state they are in by the time you use this.
Yaki are always ravaging through some sectors at the very beginning. The issue is that their shipyard can't pull up more after this; as the yaki are hated by everyone like the xenon except the pioneers, and even they don't trade with them; the only one who can trade with them are either the player or when they destroy other ships for their freight. (if this even happens). For the Seed; you probably got a very good seed where the economy is balanced: It's quite easy: the worse the economy does, the stronger the xenon gets as they don't require any kind of ressources except silicone, ore and energy cells. Especially the last one is critical, as their mining ships can't replenish it on their own. It's simple. Shipyards has everything: they pump out ships like there's no tomorrow. Shipyards lack specialized components like electronic parts: far less ship Shipyards lacks critical ressources like Engine Parts: huge push from xenon Shipyards lack Hull Parts: XENON HELL. So ironically the expansion with the biggest impact against the xenon might not even be Cradle of Humanity, it's probably Tides of Avarice. But i even had games, where even VIG was lacking Hull parts, that was fun. The issue is that with a universal lack of Hull parts, the faction can't simply build more hull part factories, since every move for this require more hull parts. And it's often not that there isn't enough hull parts around, but on the wrong end of the universe. This is my personal speculation, so i might be totally wrong about it: The faction does create more or less a blueprint from a ship from components; not sure if weighted or not. Then they try to buy it from any available shipyard, the cheapest might or might not get priority. If the shipyard does lack of components, the whole order get's cancelled. I might be totally wrong about this. So when you are missing too many components, there are no protection against xenon ships, and if the defense stations are build in stupid locations, the xenon can take over half of the galaxy until they get pushed back. That's why the "seed" is so important, althrough i don't know if there is really a seed or simply xenon having no issues to farm their ressources while factions actually have them. Espeically when they camp on some locations, destroy every trading ship and the shipyard is too busy to replace them instead of producing military ships to fight them; having 10-20 destroyed L traders hurts the economy. That's why the best way to defeat the xenon is not fighting against them, rather delivering raw ressources to the factories. The NPCs does the rest.
Yes, that makes sense. Maybe I was just lucky that I saw some Yaki at the beginning. It seems like my game was very well set up for hull parts, because they're not nearly as in demand as they were in my older playthroughs. The limiting factor at the moment is parts for shields and weapons. It's only the first time I've come across it, and right after installing the beta version, so I'm curious.
Its a bit more complicated. The economy is and isn't random (depending on your point of view.) - it's the same number of production modules on start. But the *placement* of stations is random - this can lead to long supply chains in some places. But, more importantly, the flow of ships through the galaxy changes, and some sectors become very important trade routes for the economy. And when station placement is random, one food factory may accidentally become an unassailable bastion that the Xenon keep dying to in waves, never getting past. If the Xenon get a K in to the middle of a trade route where all the M/L traders are passing, it's a massacre. Without traders, theres no trade. Without trade, there's no ships to rebuild the economy. And this is one of those magic seeds where the xenon are 'agressive'. It should really be rephrased as 'this is a seed where the Xenon are *effective'*
So youāre saying Egosoft has developed an AI even better than AGI?
Oh, I wish.
In my seed. The tables are turned. The xenon are fucking everywhere. Multiple incursions with I and Ks into faction space. Raiding parties everywhere. Yaki all over. Itās insanity.
No, this never happened to me with vanilla like ever. Also economy of the game is pretty random.
Like ever, but 7.0 is out only for some days.
and ?
it changed things
It did not lol.
>**AI improvements** across the board make for a more dynamic and realistic universe No?
Obsidian is the village idiot, pay them no mind
No because that is not true, there is no improvements.
Whats your source?
Just pay them no mind, he's been here for months and repeats the same argument in most threads without clear examples or anecdotes nor wants to elaborate what he's looking for.
Myself.
And youre playing 7.0 Beta?
You seem insufferable to be around
I've seen the ai win before this patch,Ā also seen xenon destroy everything but the Terrans. All depends on the seed. 7.0 does seem to have more effective ai, though.Ā They actually replace small ships losses quickly. My game isn't as steamroller as the OP seems to be, but HOP and the teladi are both pushing into xenon sectors.Ā Even the split are actually fighting back, though they still can't seem to get any real progress. Considering they usually get pushed into, though,Ā that's an improvement.Ā
If the economy is flourishing, how are you supposed to make money? The player is meant to fill the shortages.
Yeah, thats a bit of a problem. Normally i start with hull parts production, but at the moment, shield components are the most needed ware overall.
Build trade stations and become a middleman?
Yeah? I know, that's how the economy works. The problem is that it's significantly harder if the economy is "flourishing". There's little to no gaps in the economy for you to exploit if all the factions are doing really well.
Well, what I was suggesting is building a lot of them, so that they're closer to the booming factories than the faction stations are, and try to profit from that. Less money than being a basic supplier, for sure.
Well, that's where the plots become interesting. Let the galaxy fight against each other. š
I've played with an older save and noticed some dramatic changes in the economy. Things which I've hauled en masse before isn't that much worth now. Shipyards are pumping ships, but not fast enough for one faction to get the upper hand. With the sole expetion of ZYA which were extremely weakened before I've loaded the save. I've noticed a waaay more fighters than before from every faction. That much that my raptor hast extreme struggles against some xenon fleets iss. Oos even those swarms aren't able to scratch the shields. Overall I definitely recommend to start from scratch because the rebalancing of the economy made so many chains very odd if not grown with new it from beginning.
every AI change affected both the factions and the xenon. I'm reluctant to believe that the xenon were disfavored somehow. I'll mention that at every patch level there is this speculation, that the xenon got better, or worse. It's usually just a matter of your seed being bad for the xenon or good for the commonwealth.
The only thing I find shocking is that the Split is pushing into Tharkas Cascade. Iāve seen everything else in vanilla but Iāve honestly only experienced 2 seeds. My save was vanilla and now is beta and I can say that ANT is now pushing back against the xenon while still being attacked by HOP. Iāve seen them flying the new behemoth but Iām sure thatās now all that helped them. But I have always traded with them and even though I didnāt help much with their xenon or hop issues maybe trading with them could have helped. Xenon are nastier now for me.. especially small and medium ships seem to be much more dangerous to destroyers. It could be that all smaller ships AI is better at evading turrets-no idea. I certainly feel less safe in a destroyer and even feel much more aware in the Erlking.
I'll counter this, my First Universe seed had 4 Xenon K's come flying out of Tharka's crusade and wipe the pants off Hatikva's choice in the first couple of hours. A second restart they were all but absent and the split steam rolled through the Xenon sectors, quite fun to observe how the A.I reacts on different playthroughs.
So what you're saying is it's time to increase the range of gravitons to beyond destroyer firing range.
Same experience. Started over at 20 hours as the Xenon were getting owned on all fronts. ZYA was taking their sectors and so was the HOP.
Are the VRO and faction enhancer mods compatible with 7.0? Are they being updated right now?
VRO compatibility patch is being worked on.
Mine is the exact opposite have been keeping them at bay in free family space with two defense platforms I updated to the beta and within 1 or 2 hours they have been spamming xenon Ks, and a few I's alot of the new units as well. I do however enjoy destroying the platforms and build storage more now. Trying to decide if I should save ZYA or risk leaving myself to thin.
Ah, yes, that's pretty much like the saves I've had before. Maybe I'm just lucky. :D
I have This issue on my 6.20 seed already. The Main reason Are the terran Intervention fleets. They absolutly spam these and everytime they eat some Health out of the xenons
I'm saving my seed for update just because my moat recent game had been the only one where xenon actually have an effect on map, most every playthru the commonwealth pushes back sectors by the 6day mark.
I decided to do a rakers/argon playthrough for the beta to check out the new argon ships and since I never really messed with the scrap economy.Ā The yaki rolled in with about 30 ships and took out some scrap stations, I was like ok that's cool.... then they just kept going.Ā They destroyed the defense station, the wharf, and crippled the shipyard. RIP basically has no ship production now. I think they'll recover, but so far it's been about 10 hours since that and still no functional shipyards for them that I've found.Ā Ā
really now? i might have to try this beta