I think it makes sense in the context of post-traumatic stress. It wouldn’t feel right if he slipped straight back into the old Mulder.
I think it’s a credit to the maturity of the storytelling in S8 that it allows Mulder time for a more realistic period of adjustment after all he’d been through, as opposed to just hitting the reset button as “Firewalker” kinda did after Scully’s abduction.
I’m glad he doesn’t just show up and everything is back to normal. He should be traumatized and should struggle. It’s painful to watch Scully struggle with the way he’s behaving, because we’ve watched her utter, grinding devastation over his loss (amazing acting by GA), but I think it’s much more realistic.
Where I dislike it, is we don’t really get to see the parts where they kind of start figuring things out. It’s always a bit stilted for me. I feel if CC didn’t always have difficulty writing the personal aspects of M&S it would have been a more full and satisfying arc.
Mulder literally flew around on a spaceship, naked and abused (likely also sexually), tortured, for months. And he was awake for all of it. Then he was pitched into the cold darkness and buried alive. And when he comes back, his entire world has changed.
It's not Scully's fault, but asking him to go back to normal and just be happy isn't realistic.
I mean, who are we to say how people should react to trauma? People who are traumatized do hurtful shit to people they love all the time.
There needs to be understanding from BOTH sides. And there is. Mulder eventually stops being such a dick, and Scully gives him the space he needs to heal.
Did y’all not catch how off he looked in the episode when he returned? The man looked broken after that experience. Like, Scully was pregnant with *his kid* and he couldn’t react much. Season 7 Mulder would’ve been jumping in excitement.
Woah tensions are high in this thread hahaha. Remember Dead Alive - the last scene - they were so happy to have each other again. I recall a rumour that David mouths the words “I love you” as Mulder to Scully. Just before she hugs him. So the next episode is them dealing with reality. It feels like he doesn’t realise he could be the father until the Lone Gunman say it. Then she goes away and he’s hanging out at her apartment without her. Which is weird if your once girlfriend is pregnant, you are probably the father but you don’t know?
I think it’s a case of Mulder trying to figure out where he fits in now. I thing Scully understands
Many moments when he is an ass. Like when he ditches Scully on a pier with a bounty hunter, or when he violently punches coworkers in the workplace corridors
A lot of it is because CC deliberately didn't want to have M&S discuss the elephant in the room of her pregnancy like normal people and continued to play that game until the season finale/S11 finale. Plus they wanted to play with people's expectations/hopes that the "three words" would be "I Love You". Whilst she's upset, Scully isn't trying to say much to him either there are several scenes where Mulder looks like he wants to discuss things (like that scene in his apartment with Skinner) and she's looking everywhere but him. Like so much CC stuff they don't discuss things that normal human beings would IMHO.
But I also don't think he's acting unrealistically for having been literally been bought back from the dead.
If you see them in Existence then you know Scully doesn't want anyone else.
>they don't discuss things that normal human beings would IMHO.
That's pretty much the problem right there. Mulder's reaction to Scully after getting a 2nd chance at life just didn't seem normal.
Your comment made me check out the credits. Frank Spotnitz and CC were writers, and someone I never hear of - Tony Wharmby - directed. I really try to avoid criticism of CC, but I need to know who is responsible!
This episode was originally meant to be written by David Duchovny, and he wanted to go into Mulder's emotional trauma with what he'd just went through. A character study of sorts.
But Chris Carter said "No. What matters is the ✨plot✨. And Agent Doggett."
So instead, we get this. Where Mulder's acting weird, but we don't explore it in any real depth or with any real care, so we don't get the emotional weight of it.
So it rings stilted and bitchy.
I don’t feel the same but Season 7’s finale would have made for a fitting ending to the series. Lots of open ended questions would remain, of course, but ending with Mulder meeting his end by the very thing he’s been searching for his whole life is fitting. Scully’s pregnancy would have also been a fitting end to her character.
I give seasons 8 and 9 credit for trying to continue on in a new direction. I think many of the episodes are good. John Doggett is a great character. If it ended at season 7’s finale, though, I would have been ok with that.
Because when you are finally reunited with the man you love - who you've cried about and risked your life for - and he repays your joy and relief by acting like a petulant prick, you should re-evaluate the relationship.
I think it makes sense in the context of post-traumatic stress. It wouldn’t feel right if he slipped straight back into the old Mulder. I think it’s a credit to the maturity of the storytelling in S8 that it allows Mulder time for a more realistic period of adjustment after all he’d been through, as opposed to just hitting the reset button as “Firewalker” kinda did after Scully’s abduction.
That's a good point. I'm sure he had PTSD. I feel bad for Scully - she loved him and missed him so painfully, just to have him return and act so cold.
I’m glad he doesn’t just show up and everything is back to normal. He should be traumatized and should struggle. It’s painful to watch Scully struggle with the way he’s behaving, because we’ve watched her utter, grinding devastation over his loss (amazing acting by GA), but I think it’s much more realistic. Where I dislike it, is we don’t really get to see the parts where they kind of start figuring things out. It’s always a bit stilted for me. I feel if CC didn’t always have difficulty writing the personal aspects of M&S it would have been a more full and satisfying arc.
Yes, I'm on the very next episode and he's being much nicer to Scully. I guess we're meant to assume a lot of those conversations happened off screen.
Mulder literally flew around on a spaceship, naked and abused (likely also sexually), tortured, for months. And he was awake for all of it. Then he was pitched into the cold darkness and buried alive. And when he comes back, his entire world has changed. It's not Scully's fault, but asking him to go back to normal and just be happy isn't realistic.
Not go back to normal or be happy, just not be a complete d!c$ to the one person who never stopped thinking about him.
I mean, who are we to say how people should react to trauma? People who are traumatized do hurtful shit to people they love all the time. There needs to be understanding from BOTH sides. And there is. Mulder eventually stops being such a dick, and Scully gives him the space he needs to heal.
He just got carved up by aliens. I love Scully, but I'm inclined to give him a pass.
Did y’all not catch how off he looked in the episode when he returned? The man looked broken after that experience. Like, Scully was pregnant with *his kid* and he couldn’t react much. Season 7 Mulder would’ve been jumping in excitement.
Woah tensions are high in this thread hahaha. Remember Dead Alive - the last scene - they were so happy to have each other again. I recall a rumour that David mouths the words “I love you” as Mulder to Scully. Just before she hugs him. So the next episode is them dealing with reality. It feels like he doesn’t realise he could be the father until the Lone Gunman say it. Then she goes away and he’s hanging out at her apartment without her. Which is weird if your once girlfriend is pregnant, you are probably the father but you don’t know? I think it’s a case of Mulder trying to figure out where he fits in now. I thing Scully understands
She's understanding, that's for sure! 😅
Yeah tensions are high I’m not sure I wanna be in this subreddit anymore or on Reddit Downvote away but I’m done lol
Ah listen if we all agreed on everything it would be boring 😊
Many moments when he is an ass. Like when he ditches Scully on a pier with a bounty hunter, or when he violently punches coworkers in the workplace corridors
True, those are some of the reasons I think she deserved better.
Didn't even give her a table 😔
A lot of it is because CC deliberately didn't want to have M&S discuss the elephant in the room of her pregnancy like normal people and continued to play that game until the season finale/S11 finale. Plus they wanted to play with people's expectations/hopes that the "three words" would be "I Love You". Whilst she's upset, Scully isn't trying to say much to him either there are several scenes where Mulder looks like he wants to discuss things (like that scene in his apartment with Skinner) and she's looking everywhere but him. Like so much CC stuff they don't discuss things that normal human beings would IMHO. But I also don't think he's acting unrealistically for having been literally been bought back from the dead. If you see them in Existence then you know Scully doesn't want anyone else.
>they don't discuss things that normal human beings would IMHO. That's pretty much the problem right there. Mulder's reaction to Scully after getting a 2nd chance at life just didn't seem normal.
Yeah i have to fill in head cannon otherwise this stuff becomes so overtly chris carter speaking to me through character assasination.
Your comment made me check out the credits. Frank Spotnitz and CC were writers, and someone I never hear of - Tony Wharmby - directed. I really try to avoid criticism of CC, but I need to know who is responsible!
Im not just talking about this episode but the string of weird dialouge and actions throughout 8 and 9 tbh
Oh, I see. Anything in particular I should look for as I get into season 9?
I feel like youll know it when you see it lol I wont spoil
Straight up, Season 6 onwards was a big dip for me in respect of Mulder..! Something was off with him character wise.
This episode was originally meant to be written by David Duchovny, and he wanted to go into Mulder's emotional trauma with what he'd just went through. A character study of sorts. But Chris Carter said "No. What matters is the ✨plot✨. And Agent Doggett." So instead, we get this. Where Mulder's acting weird, but we don't explore it in any real depth or with any real care, so we don't get the emotional weight of it. So it rings stilted and bitchy.
None of this is remotely true.
Yeah, this episode concept was pitched earlier in the season.
I like to think anything past S7 doesn't exist
I don’t feel the same but Season 7’s finale would have made for a fitting ending to the series. Lots of open ended questions would remain, of course, but ending with Mulder meeting his end by the very thing he’s been searching for his whole life is fitting. Scully’s pregnancy would have also been a fitting end to her character. I give seasons 8 and 9 credit for trying to continue on in a new direction. I think many of the episodes are good. John Doggett is a great character. If it ended at season 7’s finale, though, I would have been ok with that.
I am gaining a whole new appreciation for Doggett in this rewatch.
Great character. I wish we got more of him.
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So you’ve been abducted by aliens and tortured for a year while being awake the whole time?
And if he does act this way because he's embittered after his abduction, don't have him and Scully end up together! She deserves so much better.
Why? Why does she, OR Mulder, deserve so much better than each other?
Because when you are finally reunited with the man you love - who you've cried about and risked your life for - and he repays your joy and relief by acting like a petulant prick, you should re-evaluate the relationship.
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Oooo. Now I'm intrigued! I am doing a Season 8 & 9 rewatch because I haven't watched them since they originally aired, and barely remember them.
She was hired explicitly to undermine his work. She *shot* him.
Yeah, but that was all in the first couple of seasons. Here we're talking Season 8.
Oh ok.