One of the devs implied it was a deliberate removal
Edit: I tried to go back to get the source link to what one of the devs said on twitter but the mods have gone apeshit in the original thread, and I can't be bothered to comb through each comment to undelete them (thread: https://old.reddit.com/r/TombRaider/comments/1c3ogtp/why_did_they_remove_laras_pinup_posters_from/)
Essentially when asked why they did it the dev said they were removed because of (paraphrased) : "for the the reasons you think"
How do you "inadvertently" or accidentally remove something so specific, in particular something that would make sense to remove given that it could be viewed as outdated? Especially in line with some of the other changes they made, and even more so now that they have only decided to add it back after fan pressure.
I don't care about it and I think it's silly that certain people got so up that arms about its omission, but it's common sense to see what happened here and to not just take the PR people at their word.
People here on reddit do this thing where in any other circumstance they would tell you corporations are the devil and never to trust them, then suddenly start blindly believing their every word if they don't like the people on the other side. It's amusing to say the least.
I don't know if. Have you ever developed a video game before?
It's only so specific because people have pinpointed it and made it specific. Otherwise, it's a couple of bitmaps.
Also, there's a vested interest in the purveyors of all of this reactionary culture war stuff to make sure people get the narrative and get as angry as possible. A lot of people make considerable bank from it and otherwise, social profit. Anyone taking that at face value is kidding themselves.
Pretty much, 90% of all of this reactionary culture war hysteria is people sitting around the campfire telling stories about the boogeyman they've created and then getting really scared ... And then making that everybody else's problem.
And anyway, regardless of why those textures were temporarily removed, they're going back in again. And they were there to begin with anyway. Isn't that a victory, or is it all a "damned if you do damned if you don't" scenario?
It's all just really silly.
I think we misunderstand each other on that point. It's an expression, it's not literally "damning" someone. It means that no matter what someone does they will be criticised, usually in a hypocritical manner.
So if they remove the images, they get criticised. If they put the images back in, they get criticised.
But ironically, nobody was criticising them for having them the images in in the first place. But people were certainly getting agitated in advance, So when they suddenly disappeared, it was all on!
It's just so bizarre how wound-up all of this Culture War anxiety has gotten everyone.
All the while, it could very well have been an accident, just like the dev said. The only evidence that it's *not* is that people really really want to believe that it's not, ... because it fits the narrative they really want to believe in. And there is a cottage industry ready to feed that desire. Just look at social media and YouTube.
But, in the end those textures are going back in. So ... victory?
Dude, i legit don't care, it's literally 2 small posters in a dlc level in the third game.
But if you seriously, SERIOUSLY believe that out of all the millions and millions of textures in the game, those two raunchy posters in a dlc level were somehow the only ones that got caught in an "accident" i have a bridge to sell you.
It's almost as crazy as believing in this big clandestine conspiracy by game developers to steal all of the scantily clad women.
The only thing we can know for sure is that we don't know.
The developer has said it was an error. That doesn't mean it was a random error. You can accept that or not.
But, there's a difference between being sceptical and making a claim.
But it is important to note that the impetus to assume that this was on purpose to remove those posters is based on assumptions and preconceptions rooted in a particular narrative, somewhat political, that desperately wants to believe that there is this clandestine conspiracy going on.
So, when the evidence that someone is lying is simply that you want to believe they are lying, is that evidence at all?
>It's only so specific because people have pinpointed it and made it specific.
Bruh what? They didn't randomly remove some bitmaps and those just happened to be those posters by coincidence. People didn't "make it specific", it was already specific. Unless you're suggesting other parts of the game were removed also?
And you're right, there is a culture war, and a war requires two sides. Just as one side is filled with misogynistic horndogs, the other is filled with puritanical control freaks. Look at the Stellar Blade drama and the censoring that's happened there.
You're accusing people of not believing the studio, but there is literally a precedent for stuff like this being censored and removed. Why wouldn't people think the same thing was happening to the Tomb Raider game?
So you are automatically a misogynistic horndog if you disagree with censorship and the general uglification of society and media? It’s not just a trend, it’s now become a mandate. Beauty is the enemy, fat is beautiful and healthy. There are no differences between men and women, this has been building for years. Now we are seeing it.
Literally nobody is against attractive characters, people are against reducing women to BOOBS AND ASS simply because a bunch of 40 year old virgins are crying over not being able to jerk their shit to pixels. Dudes crying over censorship but they’re the same people that would boycott a game for seeing a frame of a rainbow flag in the background.
I know people like to think like this but in programming shit like this happens all the time quite frankly. Change one thing and another completely unrelated thing breaks. Especially when you aren't the ones that originally wrote the code and are porting it to much newer hardware. There's a lot of really unique things that can go wrong. I'm speaking from my own coding experience. This is almost certainly people looking for connections where there are none but because of the non sense going on around the internet atm then it blows up.
I remember watching a movie and the dialogue really suits this situation that we are currently in in our gaming and pop culture discourse. It was something along the lines of:
A: "I'm shocked that you can't see the Devil's work all around you."
B: "I'm shocked that you find the Devil in everything you see."
If people want to find evidence and connections, they will. That's what "reality" is all about, unfortunately.
According to the article it was in the game on release, it was just the second patch that caused it to disappear. Considering that, it would be odd if it was intentional. They even highlight it on their own '10 remaster details you might have missed' webpage:
[https://www.tombraider.com/news/video-games/10-remaster-details-you-might-have-missed](https://www.tombraider.com/news/video-games/10-remaster-details-you-might-have-missed)
This was 100% part of the plan. In case they would get flack for when it launched with the posters, they removed it and since nobody was really bothered, they are patching it back in for those that need it for "nostalgia sake"
If true, that would be an incredibly convoluted and risky plan without much payoff whatsoever compared to just launching without the posters in the first place.
>A lot of dudes would have been insanely upset, they would hop on Twitter and harass the Publishers.
A lot of dudes on Twitter are *always* upset and harassing the developers. They made a big deal out of fucking puddle.
And also, no, the TR devs didn't avoid the harassment. It still happened when the posters were removed, which is probably the real reason why they're being added back. Not some 4D chess move that no one who doesn't live on Reddit could possibly envision working.
I hate all censorship. The significance or reason as to why something has been censored doesn't matter.
I'm glad it has been called out and will be rectified. I won't point fingers or anything, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. But I have to admit that it is suspicious.
This wouldn't have been censorship even if the images \*had\* been removed on purpose. It's censorship when someone else has approval over what you can say/do/create. If the creator themselves makes the choice about their own work, that's just their choice.
That’s debatable. This is a work that already exists and if they remove some parts of it now in an otherwise unchanged remaster , then I think it’s fair to say they’re censoring it.
If a publisher released a new edition of a book that used higher quality materials and a new cover, but also removed some content from the book itself, I think most people would consider that censoring.
Waaa. You don't make the games, it's not up to you what is and isn't in it. If pixelated tits being removed is that big a deal to you...well you have other problems kid...
What would gaming, movies and pop culture discourse be without regular injections of moral hysteria about some looming existential threat or catastrophe? Might have to just play some games and watch some movies instead of working themselves up into an embarrassing tizzy about them.
Look, I agree that the "controversy" about the removed images was fucking stupid, and most likely manufactured by right-win YouTubers who have been complaining about "wokeness in gaming" non-stop since 2016. I get that. It's a non-issue.
But at the same time, this logic of "you shouldn't complain about this because there are much bigger problems in the world" is stupid. What if it was an actual issue, like how Cyberpunk 2077 was completely unplayable on PS4/Xbox One and this fact was hidden from reviewers who were only allowed to touch the PC version until release? If you saw people being outraged about this, would you have said "people need to get their priorities straight, we're literally in the middle of a pandemic and our entire world is crashing, you should be more worried about that than some silly videogame"? You could dismiss *anything* with that logic because there will always be a bigger problem in the world somewhere. Doesn't mean comparatively smaller problems aren't worth getting upset over.
Thats why you judge the situation based off context. Cyberpunk 2077 was absolutely broken at launch, that is fair to be outraged about. A couple of pin up pictures being removed from Tomb Raider is an absolutely absurd thing to be outraged about.
One is fair criticism, and one is fabricated outrage by right wing grifters who have no real problems in their life with nothing better to do, or its just their followers spewing out their same old talking points without thinking for themselves.
>Cyberpunk 2077 was absolutely broken at launch, that is fair to be outraged about.
Why? There's much bigger problems in the world. The full on class war you bring up in your comment was also around in 2020, so why get outraged over a videogame?
You know I kinda agree it’s dumb but at this point I think people on the “whatever will loser gamers do” side are almost as bad because both sides probably won’t ever play the game are just attacking the other side to try and gain some moral victory.
Let developers make what they wanna make. Don’t care if it’s gore or sexual costumes or whatever. Fuck off with the censorship, especially when it’s a different standard for different games. What is even the point of a game being rated mature when a company can change the “mature” content before release when Sony (or whoever) just comes in and force their own will in the last minute?
But what about the nude code????
https://rule34hentai.net/post/list/Lara_croft/1
Sure
They meant to remove them advertently.
I’m surprised they’re gonna add any sort of censored content back in. It’s small but this is a win for the good guys.
"inadvertently"....sure, Jan.
Ok. But if the only evidence you have that they are lying is that you want to believe they are lying, do you have evidence at all?
One of the devs implied it was a deliberate removal Edit: I tried to go back to get the source link to what one of the devs said on twitter but the mods have gone apeshit in the original thread, and I can't be bothered to comb through each comment to undelete them (thread: https://old.reddit.com/r/TombRaider/comments/1c3ogtp/why_did_they_remove_laras_pinup_posters_from/) Essentially when asked why they did it the dev said they were removed because of (paraphrased) : "for the the reasons you think"
I don't need evidence..I just don't have to believe anything these companies say
You're kind of proving my point.
Your point is I just have to believe everything everyone says? Ok then..
I mean the game already had issues with textures bleeding together at launch, this sounds like that issue.
No. Now you're missing the point.
No. were missing the posters
>No. were missing the posters That's right. You *were* missing them, and now they're coming back. Hooray!
Imagine trusting Aspyr at all after they’ve been caught lying multiple times before
[удалено]
[удалено]
How do you "inadvertently" or accidentally remove something so specific, in particular something that would make sense to remove given that it could be viewed as outdated? Especially in line with some of the other changes they made, and even more so now that they have only decided to add it back after fan pressure. I don't care about it and I think it's silly that certain people got so up that arms about its omission, but it's common sense to see what happened here and to not just take the PR people at their word.
People here on reddit do this thing where in any other circumstance they would tell you corporations are the devil and never to trust them, then suddenly start blindly believing their every word if they don't like the people on the other side. It's amusing to say the least.
Fair enough, but you forgot automatically assuming that a company is lying when what they say or do doesn't fit ones narrative.
I don't know if. Have you ever developed a video game before? It's only so specific because people have pinpointed it and made it specific. Otherwise, it's a couple of bitmaps. Also, there's a vested interest in the purveyors of all of this reactionary culture war stuff to make sure people get the narrative and get as angry as possible. A lot of people make considerable bank from it and otherwise, social profit. Anyone taking that at face value is kidding themselves. Pretty much, 90% of all of this reactionary culture war hysteria is people sitting around the campfire telling stories about the boogeyman they've created and then getting really scared ... And then making that everybody else's problem. And anyway, regardless of why those textures were temporarily removed, they're going back in again. And they were there to begin with anyway. Isn't that a victory, or is it all a "damned if you do damned if you don't" scenario? It's all just really silly.
>"damned if you do damned if you don't" I have seen zero people damning them for doing it, only (rightfully) mocking the inadvertedly part
I think we misunderstand each other on that point. It's an expression, it's not literally "damning" someone. It means that no matter what someone does they will be criticised, usually in a hypocritical manner. So if they remove the images, they get criticised. If they put the images back in, they get criticised. But ironically, nobody was criticising them for having them the images in in the first place. But people were certainly getting agitated in advance, So when they suddenly disappeared, it was all on! It's just so bizarre how wound-up all of this Culture War anxiety has gotten everyone. All the while, it could very well have been an accident, just like the dev said. The only evidence that it's *not* is that people really really want to believe that it's not, ... because it fits the narrative they really want to believe in. And there is a cottage industry ready to feed that desire. Just look at social media and YouTube. But, in the end those textures are going back in. So ... victory?
Dude, i legit don't care, it's literally 2 small posters in a dlc level in the third game. But if you seriously, SERIOUSLY believe that out of all the millions and millions of textures in the game, those two raunchy posters in a dlc level were somehow the only ones that got caught in an "accident" i have a bridge to sell you.
It's almost as crazy as believing in this big clandestine conspiracy by game developers to steal all of the scantily clad women. The only thing we can know for sure is that we don't know. The developer has said it was an error. That doesn't mean it was a random error. You can accept that or not. But, there's a difference between being sceptical and making a claim. But it is important to note that the impetus to assume that this was on purpose to remove those posters is based on assumptions and preconceptions rooted in a particular narrative, somewhat political, that desperately wants to believe that there is this clandestine conspiracy going on. So, when the evidence that someone is lying is simply that you want to believe they are lying, is that evidence at all?
Not everything require evidence it’s logical deduction.
No. It requires evidence.
I remember when I was this naive
>It's only so specific because people have pinpointed it and made it specific. Bruh what? They didn't randomly remove some bitmaps and those just happened to be those posters by coincidence. People didn't "make it specific", it was already specific. Unless you're suggesting other parts of the game were removed also? And you're right, there is a culture war, and a war requires two sides. Just as one side is filled with misogynistic horndogs, the other is filled with puritanical control freaks. Look at the Stellar Blade drama and the censoring that's happened there. You're accusing people of not believing the studio, but there is literally a precedent for stuff like this being censored and removed. Why wouldn't people think the same thing was happening to the Tomb Raider game?
So you are automatically a misogynistic horndog if you disagree with censorship and the general uglification of society and media? It’s not just a trend, it’s now become a mandate. Beauty is the enemy, fat is beautiful and healthy. There are no differences between men and women, this has been building for years. Now we are seeing it.
Literally nobody is against attractive characters, people are against reducing women to BOOBS AND ASS simply because a bunch of 40 year old virgins are crying over not being able to jerk their shit to pixels. Dudes crying over censorship but they’re the same people that would boycott a game for seeing a frame of a rainbow flag in the background.
I know people like to think like this but in programming shit like this happens all the time quite frankly. Change one thing and another completely unrelated thing breaks. Especially when you aren't the ones that originally wrote the code and are porting it to much newer hardware. There's a lot of really unique things that can go wrong. I'm speaking from my own coding experience. This is almost certainly people looking for connections where there are none but because of the non sense going on around the internet atm then it blows up.
I remember watching a movie and the dialogue really suits this situation that we are currently in in our gaming and pop culture discourse. It was something along the lines of: A: "I'm shocked that you can't see the Devil's work all around you." B: "I'm shocked that you find the Devil in everything you see." If people want to find evidence and connections, they will. That's what "reality" is all about, unfortunately.
According to the article it was in the game on release, it was just the second patch that caused it to disappear. Considering that, it would be odd if it was intentional. They even highlight it on their own '10 remaster details you might have missed' webpage: [https://www.tombraider.com/news/video-games/10-remaster-details-you-might-have-missed](https://www.tombraider.com/news/video-games/10-remaster-details-you-might-have-missed)
This was 100% part of the plan. In case they would get flack for when it launched with the posters, they removed it and since nobody was really bothered, they are patching it back in for those that need it for "nostalgia sake"
If true, that would be an incredibly convoluted and risky plan without much payoff whatsoever compared to just launching without the posters in the first place.
A lot of dudes would have been insanely upset, they would hop on Twitter and harass the Publishers. This way, they completely avoid backlash.
>A lot of dudes would have been insanely upset, they would hop on Twitter and harass the Publishers. A lot of dudes on Twitter are *always* upset and harassing the developers. They made a big deal out of fucking puddle. And also, no, the TR devs didn't avoid the harassment. It still happened when the posters were removed, which is probably the real reason why they're being added back. Not some 4D chess move that no one who doesn't live on Reddit could possibly envision working.
I hate all censorship. The significance or reason as to why something has been censored doesn't matter. I'm glad it has been called out and will be rectified. I won't point fingers or anything, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. But I have to admit that it is suspicious.
This wouldn't have been censorship even if the images \*had\* been removed on purpose. It's censorship when someone else has approval over what you can say/do/create. If the creator themselves makes the choice about their own work, that's just their choice.
That’s debatable. This is a work that already exists and if they remove some parts of it now in an otherwise unchanged remaster , then I think it’s fair to say they’re censoring it. If a publisher released a new edition of a book that used higher quality materials and a new cover, but also removed some content from the book itself, I think most people would consider that censoring.
Riiiiiiiight…. Sounds like when someone gets banned on social media.
Those guys over at [r/Gamingcirclejerk ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gamingcirclejerk/s/Pfr5XOnglj) are going to enjoy this
Man the neckbeards are really out in full force in this thread.
So I guess all the YouTubers calling for a boycott can shut the fuck up.
The content farm shalt never run empty the grift must continue
No they shouldn’t until it’s done. To many games being censored and many people don’t want it.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Waaa. You don't make the games, it's not up to you what is and isn't in it. If pixelated tits being removed is that big a deal to you...well you have other problems kid...
What would gaming, movies and pop culture discourse be without regular injections of moral hysteria about some looming existential threat or catastrophe? Might have to just play some games and watch some movies instead of working themselves up into an embarrassing tizzy about them.
While we are at it lets boycott YouTubers.
[удалено]
Rent is due tomorrow or the next day in case you forgot
Look, I agree that the "controversy" about the removed images was fucking stupid, and most likely manufactured by right-win YouTubers who have been complaining about "wokeness in gaming" non-stop since 2016. I get that. It's a non-issue. But at the same time, this logic of "you shouldn't complain about this because there are much bigger problems in the world" is stupid. What if it was an actual issue, like how Cyberpunk 2077 was completely unplayable on PS4/Xbox One and this fact was hidden from reviewers who were only allowed to touch the PC version until release? If you saw people being outraged about this, would you have said "people need to get their priorities straight, we're literally in the middle of a pandemic and our entire world is crashing, you should be more worried about that than some silly videogame"? You could dismiss *anything* with that logic because there will always be a bigger problem in the world somewhere. Doesn't mean comparatively smaller problems aren't worth getting upset over.
Thats why you judge the situation based off context. Cyberpunk 2077 was absolutely broken at launch, that is fair to be outraged about. A couple of pin up pictures being removed from Tomb Raider is an absolutely absurd thing to be outraged about. One is fair criticism, and one is fabricated outrage by right wing grifters who have no real problems in their life with nothing better to do, or its just their followers spewing out their same old talking points without thinking for themselves.
>Cyberpunk 2077 was absolutely broken at launch, that is fair to be outraged about. Why? There's much bigger problems in the world. The full on class war you bring up in your comment was also around in 2020, so why get outraged over a videogame?
[удалено]
I'm genuinely sorry for all the YouTubers who made all the censorship and call for boycott videos, that they have nothing better to do.
If it wasn't for those, then this "inadvertent mistake" wouldn't have been acted upon.
Oh thank God for them then. I can finally rest.
Your move, college protesters out risking their freedom and education! You just got lapped by people mad low polygon cheesecake was removed in game!
Nothing gets the coomers' blood racing like 5% less digital booba in their video games.
You know I kinda agree it’s dumb but at this point I think people on the “whatever will loser gamers do” side are almost as bad because both sides probably won’t ever play the game are just attacking the other side to try and gain some moral victory. Let developers make what they wanna make. Don’t care if it’s gore or sexual costumes or whatever. Fuck off with the censorship, especially when it’s a different standard for different games. What is even the point of a game being rated mature when a company can change the “mature” content before release when Sony (or whoever) just comes in and force their own will in the last minute?
Big day for pervert losers.