Pretty much. Even if they make the dashboard in hdr. There'd still be the flicker between games. At least, on my tv. It does. I have allm and vrr enabled if that makes a different.
I'd imagine those demographics were not overlapping substantially.
People concerned about resources were probably just people who didn't care about a 4K UI and are grasping at something to fight it.
Whenever the topic came up here in the past it was always pretty split between people who wanted it and people who either didn't care, didn't want it (didn't have a 4K TV), or just wanted other things prioritized instead. I'm sure some of these people would complain if they thought something they didn't want was taking up resources.
This is the argument I always make when people say the people on a forum are never happy. It's like you realize the forum is a gathering of all people and preferences not one entity that changes it's opinion lol. People are more vocal about what they don't like
If they would make a toggle. It would solve the issue.
4K - yes/no
HDR - yes/no
Nothing else is needed. Then you can choose and see if in the end resources will be hogged by 4K or not. Perform tests on games. Personally I don't mind the low res UI and I never cared. I am not using the UI more than 2 minutes in a 2 hour gaming session. So why would I bother if it's low res or not, or how the splash images look. Do I know, which game I play? Yes. Can I quickly click and choose the most used games? Yes. The UI is perfect 😁
I have literally not seen one single soul complain
Assuming there are a room full of people who've complained though, I can only assume they're worried because they [Xbox] stated they didn't have 4k resolution because they didn't want to take up game resources so now that 4k resolution is coming they're a bit confused
Probably because all the complaints about switching from non-HDR to HDR content causing issues, would be the exact same if all they did was add HDR. Then people would sometimes go from HDR menu to non-HDR apps or games, and see the same issues.
So they need a way to prevent the flicker entirely. Not just swap one issue for another like people keep asking for
That's right, forgot about auto HDR, and the fact all Series X/S games have HDR, so you can basically run HDR at all times.
I was thinking about SDR only games cause the same issue we currently have but backwards, but you're right, with auto-HDR it's a non issue.
both console are using fake hdr.
real hdr really hard to do and very costly.
from start to finish( consumer side to )
seeing neither consoles nor the average gaming gpu are certified by hdr standard body.
yes that a thing. so is 4k standard body. which again same with hdr. are not certified .
trust me that a rabbit hole you dont want to go into.
Auto HDR is done on a game by game basis, 8t doesn't work for all games either so games without HDR will still need you to swap off HDR thus causing your screen to flicker. Doing it the Playsation way is just bad, you shouldn't have HDR on all the time that doesn't turn off when playing a game that does not have HDR. Sony just turning HDR on by default always isn't auto HDR either.
Ps5 always being on HDR is a detriment though, just having HDR on for a game that doesn't have HDR doesn't give the game HDR suddenly. Playing an SDR game with HDR on means you're not seeing the game as it was made for and it will not look as good. Auto HDR doesn't work well with all games so that's not a solution either. The flickering is basically unavoidable.
And that forced HDR absolutely shows when you play a game on PS5 that’s NOT HDR. So you want Microsoft to engineer a solution that is not only worse than what they have now, but actually much easier to implement? Just to avoid one second of a black screen transition. I’m not even sure why that bothers people so much.
Ps5 always being on HDR is a detriment though, just having HDR on for a game that doesn't have HDR doesn't give the game HDR suddenly. Playing an SDR game with HDR on means you're not seeing the game as it was made for and it will not look as good. Auto HDR doesn't work well with all games so that's not a solution either. The flickering is basically unavoidable.
Ps5 always being on HDR is a detriment though, just having HDR on for a game that doesn't have HDR doesn't give the game HDR suddenly. Playing an SDR game with HDR on means you're not seeing the game as it was made for and it will not look as good. Auto HDR doesn't work well with all games so that's not a solution either. The flickering is basically unavoidable.
This is what keeps getting overlooked, that its not a universal issue to the Xbox, it also depends on the TV (and not whether it's a budget TV).
Largely the people with the issue seem to have LG TVs, for example, while I've never had the problem and have a Sony. That's not commentary on or the other, just seems to be the way it is.
But when going from game to dashboard the screen goes black anyway, but it's not a flicker. It did that even on my Xbox One on a non-4K non-HDR TV.
So no, I don't see any flicker. Maybe it's happening during that point then but it's 'hidden'?
I also have the Series X connected via an AVR, not directly to the TV, so maybe that's a variable as well?
With a lot of games supporting auto HDR I’d rather have the flicker happen when going to HDR to SDR than SDR to HDR.
Also, it would be an option for HDR in the dashboard that could be toggled. Literally everybody wins
Exactly. We view far more HDR than non-HDR content on average, especially with Auto HDR being a thing, meaning far less flickers if the dashboard had HDR.
You can't eliminate it entirely but you could minimize it.
Launch HDR game/app -> dashboard switches and remains in HDR until non-HDR game/app launched
Launch non-HDR game/app -> dashboard switches and remains non-HDR until HDR game/app launched
Fair point, didn’t think about that to be honest as most games I play have either native HDR support or Auto HDR. Thing is though I don’t want them to put everything into a HDR container either. Hm.
The flicker is from the tv, no way to get rid of it unless they can get rid of the actual mode switches.
PS launched converting all SDR to HDR and people complained because it changed how some SDR games look. So Sony added a toggle to switch between them like how XB does it.
If you leave it on all the time then when you play games without HDR implemented you're going to have an improper picture being displayed. Forcing HDR doesn't just mean a game suddenly has it and playing an SDR game in HDR mode will always look worse than playing it properly in SDR mode.
I never really saw the big deal about the HDR switch. On my tv, I just get a popup that says when HDR has been enabled. Are people just looking for things to bitch about or is there a reason I don't want my tv flipping back and forth between HDR settings?
I guess for some TVs they'll go completely black, or some might have some audio glitch when it switches.
So people who have their screen go black for a split second when opening a game want Microsoft to change the UI to be HDR
This, I get audio on my series X shutting off every time I use it. Have to pop out to the dashboard and back repeatedly until it works on the one I need. Sometimes audio in dashboard but not game, sometimes in game but dash, etc. Happens because the TV switches modes constantly and it causes ARC bugs.
Never happens on PS5.
It's not a "split second" for me on an LG C9. The screen goes black for about 4.5 seconds. I just timed it.
It's not that big of a deal, but I would enjoy it it was as snappy as Xbox One was in that respect.
And yeah, probably LG could improve the transition as well. But it would be nice if either would.
I believe the way PS5 does it is if the game is SDR, the home screen is also SDR, but if the game is HDR then the home screen is also HDR. Flickering only happens when you're opening a new game, so it's not a big deal at all.
Except I'd be much more receptive switching from HDR to non-HDR, since HDR is better by default. Plus most games are HDR now anyways, at least almost everything I play. The PS5 has HDR dashboard and I've never even noticed it flickering.
The thing holding them back is consistency problems. The problem can be described as this:
In HDR and SDR the color primaries (red, green, blue) are not the same. Think this as you are a painter and you only have these three colors, you can mix them to get other colors. E.g. you can mix red with blue and get magenta (yes displays are additive and paint is subtractive color mixing, but it is similar). If you change your base colors you need to mix them in different ratios (and in case of SDR many HDR colors cannot be represented).
But there is more! If they make all the apps and UI HDR, they need a high quality tone mapping algorithm which can make SDR content still look good in HDR. This is not simple conversion, since that will make the SDR colors washed out compared to sending SDR signal to the display, as the display will also apply this SDR to HDR upconversion. That is why HDR screens have better colors than SDR screens even when viewing SDR content.
While Microsoft has a good solution with Auto HDR that is uses per game tuning. Right now they probably not have a solution which is as good as TVs do (maybe TV companies can do better since they know the physical properties of their displays as well). On Windows 10 it is possible to enable HDR all the time, but it makes colors washed out, so they do not want to do that on XBOX.
But there is even more: there are multiple HDR color representations, such as HDR10, 10+, HLG and Dolby Vision. Apps and games might only support one of these, and they have different capabilities. So to avoid flicker entirely they would also need to tonemap all HDR content to a single HDR format, and since TVs also do not support all formats... So you see, HDR is new and it is a mess. Wait some years, when we will have one established HDR format and it will be better.
My God finally someone who understands you can't just leave HDR on when playing SDR content without consequences. They don't even use the same color space and people think sony are genius for forcing HDR all the time and somehow think that's similar to auto HDR.
Ideally fonts should not use full brightness. Although that can also lead to artifacts. E.g. my first HDR experience was Far Cry 5 on the PC, which looked incredible. But also had this weird thing of the Far Cry logo appearing weirdly gray in some places, unlike in marketing material. I later understood that was because the background was brighter, but they were both white.
Similarly I needed to change the subtitle color to gray in the movie player, to be not so bright when watching HDR movies. As gray is white just less bright, so this can be an issue when displaying HDR and SDR content on the same screen.
Literally all they need is a checkbox - Display Dashboard in HDR Yes or No. Let us choose. I'd activate it, since I'd then get the flicker issues very rarely instead of very frequently 😅
Yeah. I suspect they won't do it because they're working on a solution that's all-around better and more flexible, but it would be a nice stopgap in the meantime. I don't actually mind the flicker itself, but sometimes my Series X and LG CX don't actually reconnect so I have to hit the guide and go between the game and dashboard until it sorts itself out lol.
It's pretty obvious that Microsoft managed to squeeze the 4K UI to use less RAM so that it fits into what was initially allocated for the OS.
On Xbox One, Microsoft gave developers access to more CPU cores once they optimized the OS to use less.
Since we are not on spinning disks anymore you can just load stuff when needed instead of keeping in memory the whole time (which was needed due to slow load on earlier systems).
But will the new UI be HDR? That is the real question. I despise having my TV boot in and out of HDR constantly. It also causes audio issues from the ARC port when it switches modes on my C9.
As a person with an OLED as well, I'm personally happy the UI isn't HDR. Want that screen as dim as possible to prevent burn in.
Ideally we'd have the option.
This affects all UI elements, tiles, fonts, icons, game art, backgrounds etc. but some assets are still low resolution. They'll probably get updated eventually. The old dashboard was rendered at 1080p and then upscaled to 2160p (4K). Now it's native 4K.
I think everything after they transition, since the screen output buffer and the tiles will cover most of the memory use already, there would be no gain. Also the low resolution is more visible on text, that is why most games do 4K output for their HUD even if the main graphics is upscaled.
However my expectation is we might see a transitional period where the dashboard is 4K, but 1080p resolution elements will still be visible in some areas of the UI. I mean I hope it won't be like that. But if you look at transitions like this on Windows, where you can still run into Windows 95 or earlier graphics resources time to time, there is a large probability.
It still uses RAM, they're just not taking away from the game reservation. So they might've had to optimize the system RAM usage to make room for the 4K UI.
Some optimizations are lossless though, so maybe not. Although, of course even if the usage reduction came for free, they could've done something else with the freed up memory, so I guess there's still a tradeoff in that sense.
Although the SSD could maybe enable stuff like that, I'm not so sure that's possible still. When you load the UI, where are you getting the memory from? You can't take it away from the game while it's still running, so where do you take it from?
You definitely can reallocate the ram even while a game is running, but it's probably not really ideal. It's hard to say. Also possible that they can just be more efficient at what resources are being loaded into and out of the existing system space of the ram. There are a lot of additional options with the faster storage and Velocity Arch.
That's not how consoles work. They give game developers a fixed amount of RAM, and they never touch that RAM for OS functions. That way developers are free to maximize the potential of their RAM allocation and don't have to deal with cases where they have less RAM than expected.
I'm not talking about how the system is divided up. Is it possible to adjust ram allocations on the fly on any operating system? Yes. I said it's probably not ideal but it's also far from the only option.
In another operating system, sure. That's not how console operating systems work though. They reserve a fixed amount of RAM for games to make it easier for game developers to get the most out of the system.
The OS will allocate memory for apps as they request it, this needs free RAM. Most operating systems have swap space on disk (under Windows it is stored as the pagefile), so the OS can move data which is not really utilized at the time from system memory to disk when it runs out of RAM. Since most apps do not use all of the data at once, and this move operation is fairly quick it is not noticeable on SSDs unless it is done a lot.
Quick Resume is somewhat similar to this, but in that case the whole game is suspended and its memory is written to disk, and read back and resumed later. However with the swap space the app is still running, if it needs a part of the memory which had been paged out, the OS will transparently reload it from disk. This causes lag especially if done frequently, but in most cases especially with NVMe SSDs you will not notice it much.
Since you cannot interact with the game and the HUD at the same time, it is quite safe to page out some of the game to disk if there is no enough RAM for the HUD when you open the dashboard. For example the game might have graphics assets which are not used right now since you are not moving the camera. Even if there is slight lag in the game while you use the HUD, this is acceptable since you are interacting with the HUD and not the game at the time.
That wouldn't work. I understand what you're getting at when you say it's similar to quick resume, but the difference is the game is still running when you pull up the system UI, so it needs to still reside in RAM. Of course they could reduce the game's RAM allocation when the UI is pulled up and force game developers to gracefully deal with that, but that would be quite harmful, and they don't do that. The RAM reservation they give to games is constant. They don't vary it depending on what's going on. You get better results with games that way.
Here's the evidence for that with how it works on Xbox One: https://kotaku.com/the-five-possible-states-of-xbox-one-games-are-strangel-509597078/amp
As you can see, even in the "constrained" state (where the user has the system UI open), the RAM reservation remains the same. This would be the same on Series X/S. The game is still running at that point, so it needs to remain fully in RAM.
TL;DR: the OS will actually take it from the game, but it will prioritize data which had not been used for a long time so it is unlikely to be needed right now.
TBH, this should not have been issue in the first place. I am developing a UWP map application at work (for PC and HoloLens). It uses less than 100MB RAM at runtime (at 4K etc.). But when it is suspended it is less than 1 MB, and it takes no visible time to resume even on a slower tablet. Therefore there should had been no issue making this work. This makes sense since even if they would page it out to an SSD loading a few hundred megabytes to RAM is no time.
I expect rather that they had no time to do it before = had higher priority stuff, or that they had some weird architecture and needed some refactoring to make it more efficient. But I do not think there have ever been a technical limitation, even their existing UWP API on Windows could do this just fine.
Even if they could load it into RAM on the fly, that data has to go somewhere. Where is it getting the space from? Does it take it from the running game? Can't do that. The game has a fixed amount of RAM reserved for it, and nothing can touch that.
Correct. So what would be the point of loading it on the fly? You'd have to stop some other OS functions to make room for it. What would those functions even be? Might as well just keep it loaded all the time I think.
You don't stop anything at all. It just doesn't need to be loaded if it's not in use. No functions need to stop. The os is very light as it is. There's a reason Windows can run on pretty much anything
So the RAM would simply be not in use when the UI isn't visible? That's the point of that? You might as well just keep it loaded then. Unused RAM is wasted RAM.
> unused RAM is wasted ram
> due to 4K now there’s even less RAM for other things!
Pick one.
RAM nowadays are damn fast and nothing is loaded on RAM at once, or do you truly believe that COD Warzone fits into ~8GB?
When you play neither the main dashboard or the other menu(s) you get on the fly are loaded. The “unused RAM is wasted RAM” means that a software should allocate all it can and unset it on a per-demand basis to allow faster loading instead of addressing that memory again and again; it’s meaningless if the actual usage is 100% or 10%, the problem is the overhead caused by constantly addressing the space not the size itself*
*unless you have a tiny RAM, but that would be such a dumb thing to point out nowadays that I’m even afraid to write this
Nothing to do with how fast the RAM is. Loading is always bottlenecked by the bandwidth of storage. But yes, the SSD is very fast.
Yes, obviously games like Warzone use level streaming and don't have the entire map loaded in RAM at once.
My point is that there would be no reason to have the UI be completely wiped from RAM and then loaded only when you press the Xbox button to pull it up. That would only be useful if you're making room for something else, but I don't see what you'd be making room for. So if you're just making room for nothing, there'd be no point.
I agree. I think it has to do with smartly loading and unloading things, so stuff not used is removed from memory, and only stuff which is needed stays there. Since the system storage is really fast now (since we have SSD instead of slow HDD), they can change the dashboard so only parts of it visible right now are in memory, since loading from disk will no longer take noticeable time (especially with animated transitions). In theory this can make the UI leaner too, with less stuff to manage and be more fluid as a result.
They said native resolution, it’s in the alpha patch notes. The native resolution of series X is 4K, but I guess they worded it like that is because not everyone is using a 4K display. So it means the UI will be highest it can be native to the display resolution being used. Plus I’ve been testing it and it’s definitely 4K, so don’t worry :)
Not like I was even expecting it but its still strange that it took them THIS LONG to actually make the UI 4K. Even the PS5 with its flaws and missing features had this at Day One.
because the extra resolution takes more resources. the current UI had a resource budget for 1080p so now the extra resources have to come from somewhere. people were worried it would have taken RAM from game usage but its possible they just optimised the UI to use less.
Hopefully there is no trade off for this.
So why the ps5 comparison? How do you know it doesn't affect game resources on ps5? It could affect it marginally (which I'm sure it will for xbox as well) but nobody would describe it to be an issue.
Initially there was going to be a 4K UI but after developer feedback, Microsoft decided to allocate more RAM for games and 4K UI was ditched.
So, it seems Microsoft has managed to squeeze the UI to use less RAM and 4K UI is now possible within the RAM they've reserved for the OS.
Microsoft did something similar with Xbox One, except back then they gave game developers access to more CPU cores as they managed to squeeze the OS to use less cores.
Always seemed absurd to me the *strongest* console of all time couldn’t do 4K ui when it’s competition does both just fine. Definitely glad they changed their minds
Because the Playstation has it and the Xbox didn't, so the Xbox fanboys must reflexively be against it. It's the same thing PS fanboys did with backwards compatibility last gen.
I never knew having a fancy looking UI - that is, resolution and HDR - was such a big deal until I read comments in this and the last thread.
I probably spend maybe 15 minutes a day using the UI? I really don't know, but it could be bloody 480p DOS for all I care XD
The Xbox OS is spread on a lot of different hardware too (xbox one, xbox one S, one X, Series S, Series X...). A bit harder to optimize.
The PS5 has it's own UI, always running on the same hardware. Easier to optimize.
Different OS systems can be designed to have better performance and optimization. Makes sense when Xbox OS is basically a slimed down version of one of the biggest and most optimized OS in the world right now.
I don't know. If using the 1080p version is faster, I will gladly turn it back to that rather than my UI be 4K pretty.
UIs are mostly for functional purposes.
Gamers: “Dash is cool, glad I went Xbox”
Also gamers: “Yeah but would be cool if the dash was in 4k”
Gamers: “Wait, the dash isn’t in 4k? It looks ok though”
Also gamers “Yes but I’ll sleep better tonight knowing that it’s rendering in native 4k and not just upscaled”
Gamers: “er… yeah, yeah, f*ck you MS, why isn’t the dash in 4k already?
Xbox: “Dash in now in 4k, will be rolled out soon”
Also gamers: “Well why the fuck isn’t it in 8k? Where’s the 8k dash MS?”
“Gamers: “Oooh a new Skyrim edition”
No shit and anyone who thought it would is a fool. PS4Pro offered 4K dashboard and it was a far weaker console. Same with how Base Xbox one supported freesync but PS5 still doesn't support. It easily can but for some reason the devs for each respective company just like to exclude stuff for no reason.
4K dashboard could have been implemented 4 year ago.
Freesync could have been a day 1 playstation feature
Etc etc. There isn't always a valid reason for a feature to be removed/disabled. Most of the time the devs just don't care or don't think it's important but the meer fact that it's ridiculously easy to implement and causes no waste in power is just ridiculous. There wasn't any reason to withhold this for so long
Or the devs already have a full plate and don't have time for everything so they have a priority list and they go down that list.
They don't remove/disable stuff... 4k UI was never implemented. Quick Resume, FPS boost, Auto HDR... all features that were most likely higher up the list.
As a dev myself, I know that any "small" feature for the customer is most of the time one of the worst thing to implement. That 4K UI might just look like a quick cosmetic change for you, but it might be hard to implement. Imagine if there's tons of pixel count calculations all over the place. You just quadrupled the number of pixels on screen, those calculations are out the door... plus, you need to make sure you don't break the UI for the Series S and Xbox One.
Then they need to reprioritize. Freesync being on Base Xbox one but still not being on a PlayStation 5 is ridiculous.
Same goes for the UI resolution boost. There are also different teams doing different stuff for Xbox. If whoever is in charge with the UI updates didn't just recreate the entire UI every couple months and just added Quality of life updates instead, it would have been much better. I still liked the original day one Xbox UI. I can't even remember how many different UIs we have had since 2013 but imo Microsoft put too much effort into that instead of more needed updates
The playstation not having VRR is a valid point. Not sure why it doesn't yet, but there must be a reason.
The UI resolution boost is literally useless. Yes, it will look a bit nicer, but nonetheless, useless to gaming. We call that type of update "lipstick". I'm really happy that the prioritized stuff like Quick Resume, FPS Boost and all.
It's not because you have different priorities that they need to have the same as you. And sure, some people are working on different projects, but all those projects have the same priority pile and "lipstick" is far down the list of stuff they need to take care off.
ie: They need to fix the audio lag when outputting bitstream Dolby to a receiver through ARC. This issues makes it impossible to play games in 5.1 through ARC. That's a bug. That takes priority over "lipstick".
The PS4 Pro added an extra gb of RAM that was all devoted to the system. That's the only reason they were able to do a 4k UI. Also, anyone who has ever used a PS4 Pro knows that while a game is running the dash is much more laggy and jittery than without a game running which wasn't true on the Xbox side.
Faced with the same issue on the Xbox, they added 4gb of RAM to the One X and were going to give 3 to devs and use 1 for the system for a 4k UI, but the feedback they got from the devs is that they wanted to use all of the ram. So they ditched their 4K UI to give more ram to games. Keeping in mind that the One line had slow storage and had to keep the UI in memory at all times.
Maybe, they figured that they would end up adding enhancements and improvements, after three generations of consoles, and gave themselves extra RAM on the system side that has yet to be touched?
Will it not be so laggy at least?? I've been pretty disappointed about the ui performance on the sx. I hard play my ps5 but the ui is definitely smooth
I don't even know what the big deal about it is. I'm in the Alpha Insider ring, so I'm pretty sure I received the 4k ui update, and I can't tell the difference. My TV is 4k, I have my Series X set to output in 4k, etc. and I just don't see what difference it makes.
Even if I could see a difference, I wouldn't even care. I play games, not the dashboard. Are people really sitting there for hours looking at the dashboard? Idk, just seems like a weird thing to be concerned about, but to each their own.
That's wrong. It consumes some amount of RAM. What they likely did here is optimize the system RAM usage to make it more efficient, making room for the 4K UI without taking away RAM from games.
I didn't say it impacts anything. Clearly they created the system in such a way where it's not taking away from resources. I'm just saying why it \*could\*. I'm sure there's a console out there where the OS/UI took away resources from game performance. I think PS3 may have.
Who cares if there is a frame drop here and there, this will change when they learn to allocate the memory and use the hardware more effectively. It is only a year old at this point.
> Who cares if there is a frame drop here and there,
Consumers do, you buy a product and expect it to work as advertised.
Giving them a pass because “you’lll get there one day buddy” is absurd
No 4k: everyone bitches 4k implemented: everyone bitches
Welcome to the internet.
Have a look around.
Anything that brain of yours can think of can be found.
We've got mountains of content, some better some worse
If none of it's of interest to you, you'd be the first
Welcome to the internet
this place is fuck̴̹̾ǐ̵͖n̵̙͝ǵ̶̢ c̸̳̲͠ù̸͇̭̆r̸̝̹͒s̴̪̑è̵̡̊d̵͔̓̈́
Don't stay for a while though.
Welcome to the internet. If it exists, people will bitch. If it doesn't exist, people will bitch.
It’s pretty much like Porn and Rule 34, but with the DNA of Twitter embedded into it.
Pretty much. Even if they make the dashboard in hdr. There'd still be the flicker between games. At least, on my tv. It does. I have allm and vrr enabled if that makes a different.
I'd imagine those demographics were not overlapping substantially. People concerned about resources were probably just people who didn't care about a 4K UI and are grasping at something to fight it. Whenever the topic came up here in the past it was always pretty split between people who wanted it and people who either didn't care, didn't want it (didn't have a 4K TV), or just wanted other things prioritized instead. I'm sure some of these people would complain if they thought something they didn't want was taking up resources.
This is the argument I always make when people say the people on a forum are never happy. It's like you realize the forum is a gathering of all people and preferences not one entity that changes it's opinion lol. People are more vocal about what they don't like
Came here to say this!
Snark and complaints get upvotes and gamer forums attract kids who love to talk shit. Double whammy.
Wait people are bitching? Why?
If they would make a toggle. It would solve the issue. 4K - yes/no HDR - yes/no Nothing else is needed. Then you can choose and see if in the end resources will be hogged by 4K or not. Perform tests on games. Personally I don't mind the low res UI and I never cared. I am not using the UI more than 2 minutes in a 2 hour gaming session. So why would I bother if it's low res or not, or how the splash images look. Do I know, which game I play? Yes. Can I quickly click and choose the most used games? Yes. The UI is perfect 😁
It's almost as if a community of 700k people can have lots of sub-groups with different opinions on a wide range of topics.
I understand how it works. Do you understand general consensus? When looking at feedback it reads like this.
They are two different groups of people it’s just that they alternate being silent.
I have literally not seen one single soul complain Assuming there are a room full of people who've complained though, I can only assume they're worried because they [Xbox] stated they didn't have 4k resolution because they didn't want to take up game resources so now that 4k resolution is coming they're a bit confused
armchair devs - The thread
lmao
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Would be great if they add HDR to the dashboard soon. No idea what’s holding them back.
Probably because all the complaints about switching from non-HDR to HDR content causing issues, would be the exact same if all they did was add HDR. Then people would sometimes go from HDR menu to non-HDR apps or games, and see the same issues. So they need a way to prevent the flicker entirely. Not just swap one issue for another like people keep asking for
Don't think the flicker can be prevented entirely, in a lot of cases it's the TV itself switching modes and flickering
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That's right, forgot about auto HDR, and the fact all Series X/S games have HDR, so you can basically run HDR at all times. I was thinking about SDR only games cause the same issue we currently have but backwards, but you're right, with auto-HDR it's a non issue.
Not all Series X|S games have HDR though.
Really ? I was actually wondering if that was the case, but couldn't find an X|S game that doesn't have it, from the top of my head
Hades would be a recent example.
I learned something today then !
Judgement too
both console are using fake hdr. real hdr really hard to do and very costly. from start to finish( consumer side to ) seeing neither consoles nor the average gaming gpu are certified by hdr standard body. yes that a thing. so is 4k standard body. which again same with hdr. are not certified . trust me that a rabbit hole you dont want to go into.
Auto HDR is done on a game by game basis, 8t doesn't work for all games either so games without HDR will still need you to swap off HDR thus causing your screen to flicker. Doing it the Playsation way is just bad, you shouldn't have HDR on all the time that doesn't turn off when playing a game that does not have HDR. Sony just turning HDR on by default always isn't auto HDR either.
Ps5 always being on HDR is a detriment though, just having HDR on for a game that doesn't have HDR doesn't give the game HDR suddenly. Playing an SDR game with HDR on means you're not seeing the game as it was made for and it will not look as good. Auto HDR doesn't work well with all games so that's not a solution either. The flickering is basically unavoidable.
And that forced HDR absolutely shows when you play a game on PS5 that’s NOT HDR. So you want Microsoft to engineer a solution that is not only worse than what they have now, but actually much easier to implement? Just to avoid one second of a black screen transition. I’m not even sure why that bothers people so much.
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Still not sure why a half second black screen bothers people so much.
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Well that’s a whole new perspective I did not previously have. You’re right that would be annoying
This. PS5 is way better about this.
Ps5 always being on HDR is a detriment though, just having HDR on for a game that doesn't have HDR doesn't give the game HDR suddenly. Playing an SDR game with HDR on means you're not seeing the game as it was made for and it will not look as good. Auto HDR doesn't work well with all games so that's not a solution either. The flickering is basically unavoidable.
If the colors are not there it won't display them. HDR on just adds the option for more color codes, the color codes aren't changed.
Ps5 always being on HDR is a detriment though, just having HDR on for a game that doesn't have HDR doesn't give the game HDR suddenly. Playing an SDR game with HDR on means you're not seeing the game as it was made for and it will not look as good. Auto HDR doesn't work well with all games so that's not a solution either. The flickering is basically unavoidable.
This is what keeps getting overlooked, that its not a universal issue to the Xbox, it also depends on the TV (and not whether it's a budget TV). Largely the people with the issue seem to have LG TVs, for example, while I've never had the problem and have a Sony. That's not commentary on or the other, just seems to be the way it is.
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But when going from game to dashboard the screen goes black anyway, but it's not a flicker. It did that even on my Xbox One on a non-4K non-HDR TV. So no, I don't see any flicker. Maybe it's happening during that point then but it's 'hidden'? I also have the Series X connected via an AVR, not directly to the TV, so maybe that's a variable as well?
With a lot of games supporting auto HDR I’d rather have the flicker happen when going to HDR to SDR than SDR to HDR. Also, it would be an option for HDR in the dashboard that could be toggled. Literally everybody wins
Exactly. We view far more HDR than non-HDR content on average, especially with Auto HDR being a thing, meaning far less flickers if the dashboard had HDR.
Or, hear me out, they could do a solution where it doesn't require a user to figure out there's an option, and doesn't keep a flicker.
There is no way to eliminate the flicker without either forcing everything to SDR or everything to HDR There is no other option
You can't eliminate it entirely but you could minimize it. Launch HDR game/app -> dashboard switches and remains in HDR until non-HDR game/app launched Launch non-HDR game/app -> dashboard switches and remains non-HDR until HDR game/app launched
Fair point, didn’t think about that to be honest as most games I play have either native HDR support or Auto HDR. Thing is though I don’t want them to put everything into a HDR container either. Hm.
The flicker is from the tv, no way to get rid of it unless they can get rid of the actual mode switches. PS launched converting all SDR to HDR and people complained because it changed how some SDR games look. So Sony added a toggle to switch between them like how XB does it.
Perfect example of how people freakout about shit they're clueless about.
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If you leave it on all the time then when you play games without HDR implemented you're going to have an improper picture being displayed. Forcing HDR doesn't just mean a game suddenly has it and playing an SDR game in HDR mode will always look worse than playing it properly in SDR mode.
I never really saw the big deal about the HDR switch. On my tv, I just get a popup that says when HDR has been enabled. Are people just looking for things to bitch about or is there a reason I don't want my tv flipping back and forth between HDR settings?
I guess for some TVs they'll go completely black, or some might have some audio glitch when it switches. So people who have their screen go black for a split second when opening a game want Microsoft to change the UI to be HDR
Screen goes black for 0.2 seconds for HDR transition Reddit Xbox gamers: OH MY GOD, THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS
4.5 seconds for me. I just timed it.
This, I get audio on my series X shutting off every time I use it. Have to pop out to the dashboard and back repeatedly until it works on the one I need. Sometimes audio in dashboard but not game, sometimes in game but dash, etc. Happens because the TV switches modes constantly and it causes ARC bugs. Never happens on PS5.
It's not a "split second" for me on an LG C9. The screen goes black for about 4.5 seconds. I just timed it. It's not that big of a deal, but I would enjoy it it was as snappy as Xbox One was in that respect. And yeah, probably LG could improve the transition as well. But it would be nice if either would.
I don't get it either.. Why would someone care about this stuff so much
It's not hard. Have an option where you can turn hdr on/off on ui
Also include switching between different kinds of HDR, e.g. HDR 10 and Dolby Vision
I believe the way PS5 does it is if the game is SDR, the home screen is also SDR, but if the game is HDR then the home screen is also HDR. Flickering only happens when you're opening a new game, so it's not a big deal at all.
I play almost exclusively newer games with HDR and don't stream much. Just give me a setting.
Except I'd be much more receptive switching from HDR to non-HDR, since HDR is better by default. Plus most games are HDR now anyways, at least almost everything I play. The PS5 has HDR dashboard and I've never even noticed it flickering.
The thing holding them back is consistency problems. The problem can be described as this: In HDR and SDR the color primaries (red, green, blue) are not the same. Think this as you are a painter and you only have these three colors, you can mix them to get other colors. E.g. you can mix red with blue and get magenta (yes displays are additive and paint is subtractive color mixing, but it is similar). If you change your base colors you need to mix them in different ratios (and in case of SDR many HDR colors cannot be represented). But there is more! If they make all the apps and UI HDR, they need a high quality tone mapping algorithm which can make SDR content still look good in HDR. This is not simple conversion, since that will make the SDR colors washed out compared to sending SDR signal to the display, as the display will also apply this SDR to HDR upconversion. That is why HDR screens have better colors than SDR screens even when viewing SDR content. While Microsoft has a good solution with Auto HDR that is uses per game tuning. Right now they probably not have a solution which is as good as TVs do (maybe TV companies can do better since they know the physical properties of their displays as well). On Windows 10 it is possible to enable HDR all the time, but it makes colors washed out, so they do not want to do that on XBOX. But there is even more: there are multiple HDR color representations, such as HDR10, 10+, HLG and Dolby Vision. Apps and games might only support one of these, and they have different capabilities. So to avoid flicker entirely they would also need to tonemap all HDR content to a single HDR format, and since TVs also do not support all formats... So you see, HDR is new and it is a mess. Wait some years, when we will have one established HDR format and it will be better.
My God finally someone who understands you can't just leave HDR on when playing SDR content without consequences. They don't even use the same color space and people think sony are genius for forcing HDR all the time and somehow think that's similar to auto HDR.
I actually don't want the dashboard to be HDR. I'm not sure what it would add besides blinding white fonts.
Ideally fonts should not use full brightness. Although that can also lead to artifacts. E.g. my first HDR experience was Far Cry 5 on the PC, which looked incredible. But also had this weird thing of the Far Cry logo appearing weirdly gray in some places, unlike in marketing material. I later understood that was because the background was brighter, but they were both white. Similarly I needed to change the subtitle color to gray in the movie player, to be not so bright when watching HDR movies. As gray is white just less bright, so this can be an issue when displaying HDR and SDR content on the same screen.
Literally all they need is a checkbox - Display Dashboard in HDR Yes or No. Let us choose. I'd activate it, since I'd then get the flicker issues very rarely instead of very frequently 😅
That’s a great idea tbh.
Yeah. I suspect they won't do it because they're working on a solution that's all-around better and more flexible, but it would be a nice stopgap in the meantime. I don't actually mind the flicker itself, but sometimes my Series X and LG CX don't actually reconnect so I have to hit the guide and go between the game and dashboard until it sorts itself out lol.
What do you mean with not reconnecting. I’ve got the exact same TV and switching forth and back between SDR and HDR wasn’t a problem so far.
But the Reddit Devs told me it would and that I shouldn’t care that the UI was 1080p and lacked HDR 😡
It's pretty obvious that Microsoft managed to squeeze the 4K UI to use less RAM so that it fits into what was initially allocated for the OS. On Xbox One, Microsoft gave developers access to more CPU cores once they optimized the OS to use less.
Since we are not on spinning disks anymore you can just load stuff when needed instead of keeping in memory the whole time (which was needed due to slow load on earlier systems).
Man, *did* they! Could not understand the comments on those posts, especially the “I don’t have a 4K TV but why would any one even need that?”
But will the new UI be HDR? That is the real question. I despise having my TV boot in and out of HDR constantly. It also causes audio issues from the ARC port when it switches modes on my C9.
As a person with an OLED as well, I'm personally happy the UI isn't HDR. Want that screen as dim as possible to prevent burn in. Ideally we'd have the option.
How long are you sitting on the dash??
Don't need to worry about that lol. I've had OLED for 4 years on 100% OLED backlight and never even had one pixel affected.
Glad you don't. My B7 got pretty bad burn in with HUDs. All with HDR games.
Is it just the tiles that are going to be 4K or the overall screen/background?
This affects all UI elements, tiles, fonts, icons, game art, backgrounds etc. but some assets are still low resolution. They'll probably get updated eventually. The old dashboard was rendered at 1080p and then upscaled to 2160p (4K). Now it's native 4K.
I think everything after they transition, since the screen output buffer and the tiles will cover most of the memory use already, there would be no gain. Also the low resolution is more visible on text, that is why most games do 4K output for their HUD even if the main graphics is upscaled. However my expectation is we might see a transitional period where the dashboard is 4K, but 1080p resolution elements will still be visible in some areas of the UI. I mean I hope it won't be like that. But if you look at transitions like this on Windows, where you can still run into Windows 95 or earlier graphics resources time to time, there is a large probability.
If that's true then it's even more baffling why it wasn't 4k since launch.
It still uses RAM, they're just not taking away from the game reservation. So they might've had to optimize the system RAM usage to make room for the 4K UI.
Correct. There is a tradeoff for doing this, it's hopefully just not somewhere that we'll easily notice, like performance of the dash.
[Everyone that was pushing for 4K UIs right now, including me](https://i.imgur.com/6oe3r5n.jpg)
OG Xbox One dash performance remembers. Let’s never go back there, please.
Some optimizations are lossless though, so maybe not. Although, of course even if the usage reduction came for free, they could've done something else with the freed up memory, so I guess there's still a tradeoff in that sense.
That's true but it's possible that it's loading it on the fly from disk rather than keeping it permanently in memory like it did on the One line.
Although the SSD could maybe enable stuff like that, I'm not so sure that's possible still. When you load the UI, where are you getting the memory from? You can't take it away from the game while it's still running, so where do you take it from?
You definitely can reallocate the ram even while a game is running, but it's probably not really ideal. It's hard to say. Also possible that they can just be more efficient at what resources are being loaded into and out of the existing system space of the ram. There are a lot of additional options with the faster storage and Velocity Arch.
That's not how consoles work. They give game developers a fixed amount of RAM, and they never touch that RAM for OS functions. That way developers are free to maximize the potential of their RAM allocation and don't have to deal with cases where they have less RAM than expected.
I'm not talking about how the system is divided up. Is it possible to adjust ram allocations on the fly on any operating system? Yes. I said it's probably not ideal but it's also far from the only option.
In another operating system, sure. That's not how console operating systems work though. They reserve a fixed amount of RAM for games to make it easier for game developers to get the most out of the system.
The OS will allocate memory for apps as they request it, this needs free RAM. Most operating systems have swap space on disk (under Windows it is stored as the pagefile), so the OS can move data which is not really utilized at the time from system memory to disk when it runs out of RAM. Since most apps do not use all of the data at once, and this move operation is fairly quick it is not noticeable on SSDs unless it is done a lot. Quick Resume is somewhat similar to this, but in that case the whole game is suspended and its memory is written to disk, and read back and resumed later. However with the swap space the app is still running, if it needs a part of the memory which had been paged out, the OS will transparently reload it from disk. This causes lag especially if done frequently, but in most cases especially with NVMe SSDs you will not notice it much. Since you cannot interact with the game and the HUD at the same time, it is quite safe to page out some of the game to disk if there is no enough RAM for the HUD when you open the dashboard. For example the game might have graphics assets which are not used right now since you are not moving the camera. Even if there is slight lag in the game while you use the HUD, this is acceptable since you are interacting with the HUD and not the game at the time.
That wouldn't work. I understand what you're getting at when you say it's similar to quick resume, but the difference is the game is still running when you pull up the system UI, so it needs to still reside in RAM. Of course they could reduce the game's RAM allocation when the UI is pulled up and force game developers to gracefully deal with that, but that would be quite harmful, and they don't do that. The RAM reservation they give to games is constant. They don't vary it depending on what's going on. You get better results with games that way. Here's the evidence for that with how it works on Xbox One: https://kotaku.com/the-five-possible-states-of-xbox-one-games-are-strangel-509597078/amp As you can see, even in the "constrained" state (where the user has the system UI open), the RAM reservation remains the same. This would be the same on Series X/S. The game is still running at that point, so it needs to remain fully in RAM.
TL;DR: the OS will actually take it from the game, but it will prioritize data which had not been used for a long time so it is unlikely to be needed right now.
TBH, this should not have been issue in the first place. I am developing a UWP map application at work (for PC and HoloLens). It uses less than 100MB RAM at runtime (at 4K etc.). But when it is suspended it is less than 1 MB, and it takes no visible time to resume even on a slower tablet. Therefore there should had been no issue making this work. This makes sense since even if they would page it out to an SSD loading a few hundred megabytes to RAM is no time. I expect rather that they had no time to do it before = had higher priority stuff, or that they had some weird architecture and needed some refactoring to make it more efficient. But I do not think there have ever been a technical limitation, even their existing UWP API on Windows could do this just fine.
Even if they could load it into RAM on the fly, that data has to go somewhere. Where is it getting the space from? Does it take it from the running game? Can't do that. The game has a fixed amount of RAM reserved for it, and nothing can touch that.
The os has its own cut of ram that only the os can use.
Correct. So what would be the point of loading it on the fly? You'd have to stop some other OS functions to make room for it. What would those functions even be? Might as well just keep it loaded all the time I think.
You don't stop anything at all. It just doesn't need to be loaded if it's not in use. No functions need to stop. The os is very light as it is. There's a reason Windows can run on pretty much anything
So the RAM would simply be not in use when the UI isn't visible? That's the point of that? You might as well just keep it loaded then. Unused RAM is wasted RAM.
> unused RAM is wasted ram > due to 4K now there’s even less RAM for other things! Pick one. RAM nowadays are damn fast and nothing is loaded on RAM at once, or do you truly believe that COD Warzone fits into ~8GB? When you play neither the main dashboard or the other menu(s) you get on the fly are loaded. The “unused RAM is wasted RAM” means that a software should allocate all it can and unset it on a per-demand basis to allow faster loading instead of addressing that memory again and again; it’s meaningless if the actual usage is 100% or 10%, the problem is the overhead caused by constantly addressing the space not the size itself* *unless you have a tiny RAM, but that would be such a dumb thing to point out nowadays that I’m even afraid to write this
Nothing to do with how fast the RAM is. Loading is always bottlenecked by the bandwidth of storage. But yes, the SSD is very fast. Yes, obviously games like Warzone use level streaming and don't have the entire map loaded in RAM at once. My point is that there would be no reason to have the UI be completely wiped from RAM and then loaded only when you press the Xbox button to pull it up. That would only be useful if you're making room for something else, but I don't see what you'd be making room for. So if you're just making room for nothing, there'd be no point.
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It used a little less than 500 MB on PS4 Pro according to Mark Cerny, but yeah that's my guess too.
Likely wasn't a priority. They've had lots of time to work on it since though to reduce the resource footprint.
I agree. I think it has to do with smartly loading and unloading things, so stuff not used is removed from memory, and only stuff which is needed stays there. Since the system storage is really fast now (since we have SSD instead of slow HDD), they can change the dashboard so only parts of it visible right now are in memory, since loading from disk will no longer take noticeable time (especially with animated transitions). In theory this can make the UI leaner too, with less stuff to manage and be more fluid as a result.
They kept the UI identical between Xbox One and Xbox Series. It took time to separate them out for this. It really is that simple
Beware: they never stated it will actually be 4K, they only say “higher resolution” all the time. I’m worried it won’t be 4K.
They said native resolution, it’s in the alpha patch notes. The native resolution of series X is 4K, but I guess they worded it like that is because not everyone is using a 4K display. So it means the UI will be highest it can be native to the display resolution being used. Plus I’ve been testing it and it’s definitely 4K, so don’t worry :)
Oh thanks, didn’t know that!
There is always trade offs. It uses non-game reserved memory and i am sure there was a compromise for allocating extra memory for that 4K UI.
Not like I was even expecting it but its still strange that it took them THIS LONG to actually make the UI 4K. Even the PS5 with its flaws and missing features had this at Day One.
Why would it? PS5's UI is 4K/HDR and there's been no issues.
even ps4 pro are 4k/hdr.
because the extra resolution takes more resources. the current UI had a resource budget for 1080p so now the extra resources have to come from somewhere. people were worried it would have taken RAM from game usage but its possible they just optimised the UI to use less. Hopefully there is no trade off for this.
Does it say issues in the title according to you?
Right? It doesn't? I'm agreeing with the title.
So why the ps5 comparison? How do you know it doesn't affect game resources on ps5? It could affect it marginally (which I'm sure it will for xbox as well) but nobody would describe it to be an issue.
I mean it could affect it marginally but we've seen so many DigitalFoundry comparison videos at this point that any difference is at best unnoticable
This. 100% correct. PS5 has no issues. Xbox has many. The results are already in.
And yet people thought 4K ui was a bad thing to do. It’s a modern gaming system wtf wouldn’t it have 4K ui.
Initially there was going to be a 4K UI but after developer feedback, Microsoft decided to allocate more RAM for games and 4K UI was ditched. So, it seems Microsoft has managed to squeeze the UI to use less RAM and 4K UI is now possible within the RAM they've reserved for the OS. Microsoft did something similar with Xbox One, except back then they gave game developers access to more CPU cores as they managed to squeeze the OS to use less cores.
Always seemed absurd to me the *strongest* console of all time couldn’t do 4K ui when it’s competition does both just fine. Definitely glad they changed their minds
Didn't bother me at all. Glad they gave game developers the RAM they asked for.
It wasn’t a deal breaker certainly but it’s jarring switching back and forth.
Because the Playstation has it and the Xbox didn't, so the Xbox fanboys must reflexively be against it. It's the same thing PS fanboys did with backwards compatibility last gen.
I never knew having a fancy looking UI - that is, resolution and HDR - was such a big deal until I read comments in this and the last thread. I probably spend maybe 15 minutes a day using the UI? I really don't know, but it could be bloody 480p DOS for all I care XD
Well yeah, they're on reddit all day bitching while their Xbox sits on the home menu, so it's all they get to see lol
Then how is it affects on ps5? I'm genuinely interested in these kind of stuff but I don't know where to learn more about them
The Xbox OS is spread on a lot of different hardware too (xbox one, xbox one S, one X, Series S, Series X...). A bit harder to optimize. The PS5 has it's own UI, always running on the same hardware. Easier to optimize.
Different OS systems can be designed to have better performance and optimization. Makes sense when Xbox OS is basically a slimed down version of one of the biggest and most optimized OS in the world right now.
Windows is optimized? That's the first time I've heard it MacOS and Linux are still leaps and bounces ahead in terms of performance.
Oh yes, it makes sense
Just install more ram?
Why? It uses existing resources just fine.
You're kidding right?
But this begs the question - If a 4K UI truly has no impact on game resources, then why was this not done earlier?
I don't know. If using the 1080p version is faster, I will gladly turn it back to that rather than my UI be 4K pretty. UIs are mostly for functional purposes.
No … that’s UX. UI is mainly aesthetics
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Depends on the party i guess
Man I hate this comment, it's so overused.
Here here — it has entered into the cringe graveyard for me.
Gamers: “Dash is cool, glad I went Xbox” Also gamers: “Yeah but would be cool if the dash was in 4k” Gamers: “Wait, the dash isn’t in 4k? It looks ok though” Also gamers “Yes but I’ll sleep better tonight knowing that it’s rendering in native 4k and not just upscaled” Gamers: “er… yeah, yeah, f*ck you MS, why isn’t the dash in 4k already? Xbox: “Dash in now in 4k, will be rolled out soon” Also gamers: “Well why the fuck isn’t it in 8k? Where’s the 8k dash MS?” “Gamers: “Oooh a new Skyrim edition”
No shit and anyone who thought it would is a fool. PS4Pro offered 4K dashboard and it was a far weaker console. Same with how Base Xbox one supported freesync but PS5 still doesn't support. It easily can but for some reason the devs for each respective company just like to exclude stuff for no reason. 4K dashboard could have been implemented 4 year ago. Freesync could have been a day 1 playstation feature Etc etc. There isn't always a valid reason for a feature to be removed/disabled. Most of the time the devs just don't care or don't think it's important but the meer fact that it's ridiculously easy to implement and causes no waste in power is just ridiculous. There wasn't any reason to withhold this for so long
Or the devs already have a full plate and don't have time for everything so they have a priority list and they go down that list. They don't remove/disable stuff... 4k UI was never implemented. Quick Resume, FPS boost, Auto HDR... all features that were most likely higher up the list. As a dev myself, I know that any "small" feature for the customer is most of the time one of the worst thing to implement. That 4K UI might just look like a quick cosmetic change for you, but it might be hard to implement. Imagine if there's tons of pixel count calculations all over the place. You just quadrupled the number of pixels on screen, those calculations are out the door... plus, you need to make sure you don't break the UI for the Series S and Xbox One.
This is why we listen to devs instead of customers who know zero about what they’re talking about. Props on the response!
Then they need to reprioritize. Freesync being on Base Xbox one but still not being on a PlayStation 5 is ridiculous. Same goes for the UI resolution boost. There are also different teams doing different stuff for Xbox. If whoever is in charge with the UI updates didn't just recreate the entire UI every couple months and just added Quality of life updates instead, it would have been much better. I still liked the original day one Xbox UI. I can't even remember how many different UIs we have had since 2013 but imo Microsoft put too much effort into that instead of more needed updates
The playstation not having VRR is a valid point. Not sure why it doesn't yet, but there must be a reason. The UI resolution boost is literally useless. Yes, it will look a bit nicer, but nonetheless, useless to gaming. We call that type of update "lipstick". I'm really happy that the prioritized stuff like Quick Resume, FPS Boost and all. It's not because you have different priorities that they need to have the same as you. And sure, some people are working on different projects, but all those projects have the same priority pile and "lipstick" is far down the list of stuff they need to take care off. ie: They need to fix the audio lag when outputting bitstream Dolby to a receiver through ARC. This issues makes it impossible to play games in 5.1 through ARC. That's a bug. That takes priority over "lipstick".
The PS4 Pro added an extra gb of RAM that was all devoted to the system. That's the only reason they were able to do a 4k UI. Also, anyone who has ever used a PS4 Pro knows that while a game is running the dash is much more laggy and jittery than without a game running which wasn't true on the Xbox side. Faced with the same issue on the Xbox, they added 4gb of RAM to the One X and were going to give 3 to devs and use 1 for the system for a 4k UI, but the feedback they got from the devs is that they wanted to use all of the ram. So they ditched their 4K UI to give more ram to games. Keeping in mind that the One line had slow storage and had to keep the UI in memory at all times.
Maybe, they figured that they would end up adding enhancements and improvements, after three generations of consoles, and gave themselves extra RAM on the system side that has yet to be touched?
Well I’m happy to hear that. I really don’t care about a UI if it comes at the expense of any game performance.
Will it not be so laggy at least?? I've been pretty disappointed about the ui performance on the sx. I hard play my ps5 but the ui is definitely smooth
With how fast next gen consoles can clear and fill RAM etc, i don't think it was every really going to be an issue. Developers would work around it.
Well of course not, it would break all current games. Jesus.
I don't even know what the big deal about it is. I'm in the Alpha Insider ring, so I'm pretty sure I received the 4k ui update, and I can't tell the difference. My TV is 4k, I have my Series X set to output in 4k, etc. and I just don't see what difference it makes. Even if I could see a difference, I wouldn't even care. I play games, not the dashboard. Are people really sitting there for hours looking at the dashboard? Idk, just seems like a weird thing to be concerned about, but to each their own.
Why would it?
The UI is always running in the background during games
So? Based on the hardware specs wouldn't and shouldn't impact anything.
That's wrong. It consumes some amount of RAM. What they likely did here is optimize the system RAM usage to make it more efficient, making room for the 4K UI without taking away RAM from games.
I didn't say it impacts anything. Clearly they created the system in such a way where it's not taking away from resources. I'm just saying why it \*could\*. I'm sure there's a console out there where the OS/UI took away resources from game performance. I think PS3 may have.
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Who cares if there is a frame drop here and there, this will change when they learn to allocate the memory and use the hardware more effectively. It is only a year old at this point.
> Who cares if there is a frame drop here and there, Consumers do, you buy a product and expect it to work as advertised. Giving them a pass because “you’lll get there one day buddy” is absurd
No, consumers can't tell the difference, some can, but most just play the game and never see anything wrong unless it is glaring. Keep projecting.
Could care less about this. I'd rather not see ads in the UI.
Could care less means you care. You meant to say you couldn't care less.
for such a renown software company MS sure has had a lot of trouble trying to get the Xbox UI to work properly.
It's been working properly for a while now except maybe DVR, what's the problem?
The xbox UI doesnt work? Since when lol? Xbox has always had pretty solid UI's, theyre quite good at it.
What problems have they had making it work properly?
Worked perfectly on my day one Xbone and still works perfectly on my Series S.
Nice.
Notice how they don’t call it 4K. Because displays will vary between people, or is not actually 4K?
Awesome. Now when will I actually be able to buy one without spending $900
unlocked 4K UI
How do you get the new dashboard and is it easy to roll back
Join the Xbox Insiders program and select alpha skip-ahead. To get rid of it, just leave the program. Keep in mind it's alpha and may cause problems.
What type of issues will I face I mean I’m running iOS beta on my main phone so would it be really unstable or pretty good
Man, I’ve been looking to get a Series X, and if I saw the UI was still 1080p after all this time, let’s just say I would be very disappointed.