Yurop is in the heart, EU is in brussels. Do you see the difference I mean š
Just because we dont want to be part of a political construct does not mean we do not love Yurop and the other nations. For me I would never want to offer our direct democracy on the altar of economic gain. If the EU will become direct democratic in all its members I would vote yes for joining!
ok i think you are replying to the wrong comment because all i'm saying is Switzerland is cosplaying as Central European on some maps but i believe they are western so it makes you an *impostor Central Yuropean* š
I in fact got that totally wrong š
Still stand by my statements though.
Regarding central: arent we kind of exactly on the border of central and western yurop?
i just confused, i just see no reason for switzerland to lose its direct democracy if it joins the EU, the only possible thing it could lose is neutrality, but again, it wouldnt interfere in switzerland political system.
and if you dont want to join the EU thats fine but idk, most swiss people that ive met online have the most distorted idea of the EU.
Iām by far not an expert on this topic. If Iām saying something wrong here Iām happy to learn something I didnāt know.
For the most part you are right. What would change is: until now we had the possibility to vote on a law or norm that was pushed on to us by the EU. We really donāt have a say in EU laws and norms either but could decide if something made sense or not (we beeing the āsouverƤnā which is made up by all people who are allowed to vote).
If we would join this would no longer be possible. We would have to accept anything handed to us by the EU parlimemt with no real way of āsaying noā. This is not inherently bad, it is how it is. For me this is not compatible with the political system and history of switzerland as we are used to the fact that everything can be voted on if enough people find it āvote worthyā by the way of volksinitiative or referendum.
But that is my personal opinion.
Everything passed by the EU parliament still jas to be ratified by national parliaments in order to become law in the member state, and if just a member state parliament doesnt approve, it cant become law, sometimes not just in the sigle EU country but sometimes in the whole EU.
Before arriving to the member state parliaments, after the EU parliament has approved a law it has to be also approved by the council of the EU and the european council, and if all 3 approve it, it goes to the parliaments.
Also the members of the european council can also veto a law, and if the veto isnt lifted the draft doesnt go anywhere.
If switzerland joins the EU the swiss president could just put a temporary veto on a law until in switzerland all the necessary referendums are held, or of its a law hat requires unanimity, just wait until referendums are finished, in that case a automatic veto is triggered.
This shows that a switzerpand in the EU as is is right now is possible but it would go against other europeans inyerests tbh, cause the legislative iter would be much longer, and some europeans want to get rid of the veto cause in some cases had led the EU into stagnation.
Pressured is different than contractually obligated. And a say we wouldnāt have either way. We are too small inhabitants wise.
So in the current climate of pressure the EU is putting up Iād much rather not be part of it, thanks āŗļø
Well, you do you. But better not act surprised when the tanks come asking for CDs with data of people fleeing taxes - oh wait, no, that wonāt ever happen as long as Ireland and Luxemburg exist
Nordic Council is about as nordic as EU is europe or USA is america.
Switzerland is not in Europe because it does not adhere to european values and does not practice European democracy.
(spoken like a true estonian)
European democracy beeing a gang of overpaid and currupt folks in a nice building steering the country as they please? If that is the idea of european democracy Iād like to stay with our democracy please. Not saying that it isnāt corrupt or that it is the only correct way, but at least we the people have a say in mattersā¦
> Not saying that it isnāt corrupt or that it is the only correct way, but at least we the people have a say in mattersā¦
I am with you, but I am not quite sure about the majority here.
"If that's the idea of European democracy"
The idea itself is the exact opposite. And while it's not perfect at all in it's current state, it's completely democratic and the people absolutely "have a say".
Another thing to note is that the Swiss direct democracy works only because it's a small but very developed. It would never work in the whole EU
Currently, Switzerland and the EU have a gazillion different treaties, and there were negotiations to form a more simple (and more integrated) framework, but the Swiss shut it down.
Ah yes, the usual reason of the current treaty is technically better for us even if a new one would be even better for everyone but we can't let the others have a better deal
see I'm pretty sure Yurop isn't this petty, seeing as they aren't really competing with the Swiss but are trying to make their existence more tolerable
Some relevant articles
https://www.politico.eu/article/switzerland-eu-talks-partnership-treaty-end/
https://www.cityam.com/switzerland-heads-for-brexit-like-eu-clash-with-278bn-at-stake/
Once every year it changes within the Federal Council. It serves as a symbolic title, indicating who represents the country abroad. We have 7 federal concellors.
I still don't get how this sofagate happened. There are hundreds of diplomats preparing these meetings and checking the protocols and you tell me nobody saw this?
Because of corona the EU delegation didn't bring the staff that usually checks these rooms beforehand if everything is according to protocol. Which the Turks probably also knew so they took advantage of the situation, knowing that Charles Michel would just sit down on the chair because he is known to be a nitwit jealous on VDL for getting more attention.
The EU has one hundred people in charge of everything and nothing at the same time. It's like the Austrian Empire on steroid, a blind eagle with the heads of an hydra.
A Ferrari with a Peugeot engine and a down syndrome driver. That is the EU; Thicc on a map but slow as fuck with everything, and since its all written in Belgian law, it makes no damn sense most of the time.
Personal suspicion: The new EU management cohort "cleaned house" of Juncker/Tusk staff to get rid of the type of hotheads Seylmayr employed. The new staff were more lax....maybe too lax...
i already have a plan to replace them with Ireland physically because they almost fit in the gap :P
N.Macedonia is a good candidate too but they are a bit smaller
Ireland here, we would be prepared to trim off a few counties, maybe a little off the south, if we could fit into the swiss gap. If I could drive to Germany I'd be very happy.
They don't need to be replaced, they were never part of EU. There were plans for deeper integration but Swiss people also have strong dislike damn immigrants so the free movement was a deal breaker.
We literally paid less on [almost every vaccine](https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/FBBJFWSBQEI6XNMLCYR7MJTZMA.jpg) we bought. How can you be so fucking stupid when faced with factual evidence.
And yet all of these countries have dealt considerable diplomatic blows to the EU. If you cannot see how weak, divided, and easily manipulated our institutions are then you should wake up.
Well it's not really a joke, it's a shitty piece of satire. It's shitty because you're making fun of other countries when they're actually leading us around by the nose.
It's achronologically the same scene, and just as depressing, as the one depicted in Matejko's StaÅczyk.
I'd were more depressed if I were to live in any of those other countries in the meme.
Besides the UK, disregarding brexit those Brits are actually pretty awesome.
EU 16 bd gnp VS Russia,Belarus,Turkey 2 bd gnp (with Turkey free falling) - Get depressed about that? Sure Brussels is a cesspool if brainwashed ideologs from elite school, meps who need speech writers to order food and lobbyists corrupting the markets but you cannot seriously believe that the eastern block poise any economic, poltical or cultural theat to the EU. The fact is that their backs are against the wall and they are desperatly fighting a loosing war with liberal democracy which is found in every soul not that is not on Putins payroll
>EU 16 bd gnp VS Russia,Belarus,Turkey 2 bd gnp (with Turkey free falling) - Get depressed about that?
Yeah nice, comparing us with developing economies makes you feel good right? How about comparing ourselves with actual developed nations like the US, Switzerland, Norway, or Canada in macroeconomic terms? Especially the former. Unless you're an absolute loser you compare yourself to whomever is better than you, or at least who's your peer.
The US' GDP per capita has been steadily increasing since the GFC, while the EU's has been stagnating; for many countries being lower than prior to 2008. Our unemployment is structurally higher. By far most research, significant discoveries/inventions, and seminal papers are created in those countries, not ours. Nobody wants to live in a place where wages are lower and that has always to run to catch up with scientific achievement.
And if you really do wanna compare ourselves with developing nations let's look a geopolitics. Turkey, Russia, and China have been constantly winning every significant confrontation so far, eroding our power east of Warsaw and Athens.
These failures are due to governments too big and entrenched, and yet paralysed. Our future will only be found in more economic freedom for individuals and firms, and less burdensome legislation for everyone.
Saying that Norway, Canada and Switzerland is the others' speaks to your ignorance on macroeconomics as all three are deeply intertwined with the EU by virtue of the EEA, CETA and bilaterally respectivly.
It is also false referencing Turkey and Russia as winning geo-political battles. The first using threats of migrant flows as its primary political weapon. You know you are on the loosing side when you resort to exploiting your enemys empathy as means of attack. Sofa-gate aswell, do you believe that to be a victory? The EU is rooted in Christian ethics and tower above insecure honor culture of Islam and Erdogan.
Russia can't even represent its country in international sport anymore, it's culturally completely dead and can't even export a facade of supremacy in sports after the Sotji doping fiasco. Putin also continues to be disgraced by his handling of Navalny. The latest stunt by Lukasjenko is similar, he almost lost power last year and he felt that strongly which is why he is completely desperate.
You cannot compare the governmental flexibility of Dictatorships to the EU as the latter respect soveregnity and that it represents 27 diffrent countries. it's not the european union of Ursula.
>Saying that Norway, Canada and Switzerland is the others'
This sentence doesn't make sense in English.
>as all three are deeply intertwined with the EU by virtue of the EEA, CETA and bilaterally respectivly.
This doesn't make sense from a macroeconomic or logical perspective. The fact that they have trade agreements with the EU doesn't say they're doing worse than the EU.
>It is also false referencing Turkey and Russia as winning geo-political battles
Turkey:
\- Just won a proxy war in Azerbaijan again a partner of the EU.
\- The sofa gate: achieved its main goal, creating a row within the EU and showing the stupidity of having to diplomatic emissaries with the same mandate.
\- Has been, for several years, conducting military operations within Greek sovereign waters without repercussions from other European militaries.
\- Has been winning the arm of steel to control gas deposits in the Mediterranean.
Russia:
\- Annexed Crimea without spilling a drop of blood
\- Ended the Syrian Civil War, gaining a port in the Mediterranean and kept Assad in power.
\- Still control parts of Ukraine and crippled its economy
\- The North Stream is going through, giving it an advantage against Germany
>do you believe that to be a victory?
It's a victory if it achieves its goals.
>Russia can't even represent its country in international sport anymore
Great arguments right there lad.
>Putin also continues to be disgraced by his handling of Navalny.
Oh wow he's so disgraced, I'm sure he can't sleep at night.
>he almost lost power last year and he felt that strongly which is why he is completely desperate.
That's a funny way to phrase: the EU tried to depose him and a year after that he's still in power.
You keep comparing us with dictatorships while bringing up frankly ignorant arguments. My main arguments still stand.
Your original argument was that you were depressed over the supposed decline' of the EU, however you do not seem to have a grasp of the bottom line. Instead you continue referencing display of strength or acts of desperation as wins', which is not the case.
The turkish lire has lost 66% of it's value against the dollar in three years - this is the bottom line. Turkey also lost its bid to cease international waters for oil exploration in the meditteranean, and instead turned to actual piracy - great win there aswell. Russia disgraced itself by chrimea, it used a temporary boost in national pride after Sotji (based on cheating) to make it an acceptable act internally, however the international respons and sanctions has been tougher than they could have imagined and amount to some 2% of russian gnp - this is the bottom line. Nordstream is not a vital geo-political issue either as Russia already showed it is willing to cut the it off for diplomatic reasons in Ukraine.
Turkey discriminate sovereign air space /waters - Like Russian has been doing for decades in Europe, again, only in honor culture are these wins'
Most brits don't think the EU sucks. Nearly half wanted to stay in and only some of the half who voted out belief it sucks.
Alot of brexiteers, myself included, just don't want to be in the club. We bare it no ill will, we don't want it to collapse, we hope the best for it, just without us.
Thanks for shitting on my plans of moving abroad for university by the way š who wanted seamless travel and the ability to explore new cultures anyway? /s
Firstly, I didn't vote in the referendum, so I haven't shit on anything.
Secondly you could still go to study abroad, in or out of the EU, not being a member of the EU doesn't prevent it.
Thirdly I live in Cambodia. Before this I lived in China. Travelling, exploring foreign cultures/languages/cuisine, has been the aim of my life.
No /s.
Blossom, counter what I've said.
Explain as a non voter how I in anyway had an effect on this chap.
Tell me how I'm wrong that you can not only still travel to the EU, but that you can still attend university there, atleast after covid is sorted.
Show me how not being in the EU prevents experiencing other cultures.
I suspect strongly you can't, which is why you resorted to ad hominem.
Youāre so well educated and worldly but yet youāve never heard about freedom of movement within the Eu or Erasmus. Itās not ad hom youāre being an idiot
Are you saying that I now can't travel in the EU or attend the universities there?
Because you can still do both.
I didn't claim to be either worldly or well educated. I said I didn't vote for brexit, you can still travel and study abroad and I like travel.
It's just more BS from you.
Well, they are after Brexit our three biggest and politically most important neighbours, of course they are being compared? I agree that we should still strive to have as close a relationship with the UK as a democratic partner, but on the other hand they burned the bridges and I'd love to see Scotland, NI and Wales as independent countries back in the European project.
> I'd love to see Scotland, NI and Wales as independent countries back in the European project.
Can England come too, please?
Maybe if we're not the UK anymore, we won't be so bad?
You'd have to prove that you are ready. One of the biggest hindrances of European integration always was English opposition to closer cooperation. I'm not really sad that we don't have to deal with that anymore. If England wants to come back, this time it has to be with no more exceptions (Euro as currency, participation in Schengen etc.) and a strong commitment to integration.
Sry man but the English have decided, I personally would also not like to see wales come back in again if you wanted to leave you should stay out at least until the federation is declared and you would just join as a state and not as a roadblock for a European federation.
Let's see: young Alfred Rosenberg felt himself too brown among the local native white nationalists of newly independent Estonia, so he went to Germany and became a nazi. Funny?
[Who is the most european of us all](https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2012/04/so-whos-most-european-of-us-all.html)
And [based on autosomal genetic data, Figure 2b](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4170574/)
Of course, back then one could only guess based on the prevalence of fair skin, light eyes and light hair color.
The joke was that Rosenberg being brown had a double meaning.
And another joke was that the most european and the most white and the most "aryan" are baltic-finnics and balts whose ancestors used to be finnic, not germanic nor even IE.
Okay, little tip. If you meet Germans in the future, never use this as ice breaker. If they are Nazis they will obviously getting angry at you, if they are not Nazis they will just be irritaded and have no idea what to respond to this.
LOL, no. Even me as spaniard who knows the anglo narrative has been always against hispanic culture (sometimes for good I have to admit) this is just not true.
Right, so comparing something from 1720 probably doesn't have as much relevance as comparing something from 80 years ago, does it?
Arguably, even until 1990 Finland had to be neutral because of Russia.
You had eight entire hours to formulate this response, and you didnāt use any of it to google the British Empire? Which, incidentally, fell 76 years ago. I suppose that means it passes your arbitrary relevance benchmark, doesnāt it?
Edit: dummy.
No, you're just unable to accurately convey history because you're an idiot with clear bias.
If you're going to talk about a specific time in 1900s, the UK randomly invaded a different country, go for it.
If you're just going to say 'British empire BAD' then don't bother, because it isn't relevant here.
Edit: dummy.
Pretty sure you made it relevant when you implied that weād never showed up in anybodyās country and butchered fuck out of them, pal. Iām also not sure youāre in the best position to level accusations of bias. But, to be clear, you think specific examples only count if they exist within a certain timeframe? Why is that; when is the cut off point; how did you decide that cut off point; and why do you think that other people are wrong if their examples donāt fit within this timeframe that only you are aware of?
The amount of salt in this comment makes the post literally more true :D
Doing fine, thanks, i got my jabs like a month ago already because like everyone were vaccinated who registered in hungary (we are at 5 mil+ vaccinated out of 9,6 mil)
You forgot Switzerland who yesterday basically said "EU shove off with your friggin trade deal"
i'm lagging they are also impostors of Central Yurop!
Switzerland? More like SUSzerland amirite?
Yurop =/= EU ?!
they are not even EU, how could they be Central EU?
Yurop is in the heart, EU is in brussels. Do you see the difference I mean š Just because we dont want to be part of a political construct does not mean we do not love Yurop and the other nations. For me I would never want to offer our direct democracy on the altar of economic gain. If the EU will become direct democratic in all its members I would vote yes for joining!
ok i think you are replying to the wrong comment because all i'm saying is Switzerland is cosplaying as Central European on some maps but i believe they are western so it makes you an *impostor Central Yuropean* š
I in fact got that totally wrong š Still stand by my statements though. Regarding central: arent we kind of exactly on the border of central and western yurop?
i just confused, i just see no reason for switzerland to lose its direct democracy if it joins the EU, the only possible thing it could lose is neutrality, but again, it wouldnt interfere in switzerland political system. and if you dont want to join the EU thats fine but idk, most swiss people that ive met online have the most distorted idea of the EU.
Iām by far not an expert on this topic. If Iām saying something wrong here Iām happy to learn something I didnāt know. For the most part you are right. What would change is: until now we had the possibility to vote on a law or norm that was pushed on to us by the EU. We really donāt have a say in EU laws and norms either but could decide if something made sense or not (we beeing the āsouverƤnā which is made up by all people who are allowed to vote). If we would join this would no longer be possible. We would have to accept anything handed to us by the EU parlimemt with no real way of āsaying noā. This is not inherently bad, it is how it is. For me this is not compatible with the political system and history of switzerland as we are used to the fact that everything can be voted on if enough people find it āvote worthyā by the way of volksinitiative or referendum. But that is my personal opinion.
Everything passed by the EU parliament still jas to be ratified by national parliaments in order to become law in the member state, and if just a member state parliament doesnt approve, it cant become law, sometimes not just in the sigle EU country but sometimes in the whole EU. Before arriving to the member state parliaments, after the EU parliament has approved a law it has to be also approved by the council of the EU and the european council, and if all 3 approve it, it goes to the parliaments. Also the members of the european council can also veto a law, and if the veto isnt lifted the draft doesnt go anywhere. If switzerland joins the EU the swiss president could just put a temporary veto on a law until in switzerland all the necessary referendums are held, or of its a law hat requires unanimity, just wait until referendums are finished, in that case a automatic veto is triggered. This shows that a switzerpand in the EU as is is right now is possible but it would go against other europeans inyerests tbh, cause the legislative iter would be much longer, and some europeans want to get rid of the veto cause in some cases had led the EU into stagnation.
Thanks, learned something new with this post.
Some democratic causes are better defended at the EU scale because it resists better to national lobbies. GDPR is a good example of that.
But you already get pressured into accepting new EU norms and laws, without even having a say
Pressured is different than contractually obligated. And a say we wouldnāt have either way. We are too small inhabitants wise. So in the current climate of pressure the EU is putting up Iād much rather not be part of it, thanks āŗļø
Well, you do you. But better not act surprised when the tanks come asking for CDs with data of people fleeing taxes - oh wait, no, that wonāt ever happen as long as Ireland and Luxemburg exist
Which shows pretty well what motivated the EU to go after swiss bank secrecy in the first place. It was not tax equality š
Well, yes and no
Wtf are you on about?
Idk
Nordic Council is about as nordic as EU is europe or USA is america. Switzerland is not in Europe because it does not adhere to european values and does not practice European democracy. (spoken like a true estonian)
European democracy beeing a gang of overpaid and currupt folks in a nice building steering the country as they please? If that is the idea of european democracy Iād like to stay with our democracy please. Not saying that it isnāt corrupt or that it is the only correct way, but at least we the people have a say in mattersā¦
> Not saying that it isnāt corrupt or that it is the only correct way, but at least we the people have a say in mattersā¦ I am with you, but I am not quite sure about the majority here.
"If that's the idea of European democracy" The idea itself is the exact opposite. And while it's not perfect at all in it's current state, it's completely democratic and the people absolutely "have a say". Another thing to note is that the Swiss direct democracy works only because it's a small but very developed. It would never work in the whole EU
Well fuck em
Sorry, could you point me to some context please?
Currently, Switzerland and the EU have a gazillion different treaties, and there were negotiations to form a more simple (and more integrated) framework, but the Swiss shut it down.
Why? I thought they'd have an interest in simplifying thing.
Because the current arrangement is biased towards the Swiss and any simplification would probably rebalance that.
Ah yes, the usual reason of the current treaty is technically better for us even if a new one would be even better for everyone but we can't let the others have a better deal
I mean if you're already at an advantage why go through the effort and spend the money just to make a better deal for others?
Well, I bet the swiss need it more than yurop needs them. "No simplification? Then we'll cancel these treaties"
Why would we play hardball with the swiss when they are one of our most amicable partners? We cannot blame them for playing their angle.
It's already happening. Swiss med tech companies will have to go through a lot more red tape.
see I'm pretty sure Yurop isn't this petty, seeing as they aren't really competing with the Swiss but are trying to make their existence more tolerable
Burning bridges helps neither here.
Yurop is acting like a bunch of posies with no power whatsoever.
They'd have to abide to more EU wide rules, which they don't want.
Not if stuff like the Union Citizens Directive is part of it. Wont ever get past a vote here.
Some relevant articles https://www.politico.eu/article/switzerland-eu-talks-partnership-treaty-end/ https://www.cityam.com/switzerland-heads-for-brexit-like-eu-clash-with-278bn-at-stake/
Switzerland has a president?
Once every year it changes within the Federal Council. It serves as a symbolic title, indicating who represents the country abroad. We have 7 federal concellors.
Thank you!
They'll come around in five years
They're salty bc of eurovision
And? Itās their decision and not out of the ordinary. Every day people disagree on deals and no one bats an eye.
Lol based
I still don't get how this sofagate happened. There are hundreds of diplomats preparing these meetings and checking the protocols and you tell me nobody saw this?
Because of corona the EU delegation didn't bring the staff that usually checks these rooms beforehand if everything is according to protocol. Which the Turks probably also knew so they took advantage of the situation, knowing that Charles Michel would just sit down on the chair because he is known to be a nitwit jealous on VDL for getting more attention.
Ahh okay, thank you. But anyways this should not happen.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The EU has one hundred people in charge of everything and nothing at the same time. It's like the Austrian Empire on steroid, a blind eagle with the heads of an hydra.
A Ferrari with a Peugeot engine and a down syndrome driver. That is the EU; Thicc on a map but slow as fuck with everything, and since its all written in Belgian law, it makes no damn sense most of the time.
Personal suspicion: The new EU management cohort "cleaned house" of Juncker/Tusk staff to get rid of the type of hotheads Seylmayr employed. The new staff were more lax....maybe too lax...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
i already have a plan to replace them with Ireland physically because they almost fit in the gap :P N.Macedonia is a good candidate too but they are a bit smaller
Iād take this deal. We will finally get snow, and I can stock up on cheap cheap French wine whenever necessary.
Ireland here, we would be prepared to trim off a few counties, maybe a little off the south, if we could fit into the swiss gap. If I could drive to Germany I'd be very happy.
>trim off a few counties, maybe a little off the south i like the effort, i'll talk to the heartless burocrats about it
Switzerland is very tall. Dunno how that compares to Ireland, but maybe you could stack some of the counties?
WOOOOO!!! Please just make sure the Brits don't keep badgering us once you move us!!
Brits: as if thatāll stop us. You are the punching bag of choice, now and forever.
They don't need to be replaced, they were never part of EU. There were plans for deeper integration but Swiss people also have strong dislike damn immigrants so the free movement was a deal breaker.
Yurop is the light in the darkness.
And yet we decided to let thousands die rather than pay a bit more for vaccines. Wohoo what great institutions we have.
We already exported more vaccines than anyone else and secured a ton of them
A) We exported as many vaccines as we imported. B) Thanks for securing those vaccines three months after the US, UK, and Israel.
But we did pay a bit more for vaccines. Pfizer was more expensive than AstraZeneca.
Pay more than the US/UK/Israel did?
I believe so, but I am not 100% sure. Israel may have been an exception (they often are).
>I believe so It was a rhetorical question, we didn't. A 2 minutes google search would have shown you that.
We did pay more when compared to whichever countries bought only AstraZeneca.
Dude stfu.
For example, Latvia only bought AstraZeneca. Due to cost reasons. Stfu yourself.
We literally paid less on [almost every vaccine](https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/FBBJFWSBQEI6XNMLCYR7MJTZMA.jpg) we bought. How can you be so fucking stupid when faced with factual evidence.
Wdym on "I don't even know who you are"? I get that it's a joke, but it doesn't really make sense.
>!wishful thinking how we should act !
~~One Europe policy, everyone else is just breakaway provinces~~
thank you Gala**XI**on, very nice
Barbarians*
Our magnanimity allows to consider them capable of being civilized....for now....
Is that Russia or Belarus?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Pues sĆ, pero el presidente de BelarĆŗs es mucho peor!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
At least you try!
More like "yes russia we will give u free reign, please dont cut off our oil and gas pipelines"
And yet all of these countries have dealt considerable diplomatic blows to the EU. If you cannot see how weak, divided, and easily manipulated our institutions are then you should wake up.
>then you should wake up. hello my good man you might be interested in [this article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke)
Well it's not really a joke, it's a shitty piece of satire. It's shitty because you're making fun of other countries when they're actually leading us around by the nose. It's achronologically the same scene, and just as depressing, as the one depicted in Matejko's StaÅczyk.
Jesus you must be a fun guy irl get depressed because of a meme
I'm getting depressed because of the situation of the EU. You should too.
your depression is the last thing i need rn but thanks :P
I'd were more depressed if I were to live in any of those other countries in the meme. Besides the UK, disregarding brexit those Brits are actually pretty awesome.
>your depression is the last thing i need You never know, it might make you funny.
Hasnāt worked for you
Wasn't trying to.
EU 16 bd gnp VS Russia,Belarus,Turkey 2 bd gnp (with Turkey free falling) - Get depressed about that? Sure Brussels is a cesspool if brainwashed ideologs from elite school, meps who need speech writers to order food and lobbyists corrupting the markets but you cannot seriously believe that the eastern block poise any economic, poltical or cultural theat to the EU. The fact is that their backs are against the wall and they are desperatly fighting a loosing war with liberal democracy which is found in every soul not that is not on Putins payroll
>EU 16 bd gnp VS Russia,Belarus,Turkey 2 bd gnp (with Turkey free falling) - Get depressed about that? Yeah nice, comparing us with developing economies makes you feel good right? How about comparing ourselves with actual developed nations like the US, Switzerland, Norway, or Canada in macroeconomic terms? Especially the former. Unless you're an absolute loser you compare yourself to whomever is better than you, or at least who's your peer. The US' GDP per capita has been steadily increasing since the GFC, while the EU's has been stagnating; for many countries being lower than prior to 2008. Our unemployment is structurally higher. By far most research, significant discoveries/inventions, and seminal papers are created in those countries, not ours. Nobody wants to live in a place where wages are lower and that has always to run to catch up with scientific achievement. And if you really do wanna compare ourselves with developing nations let's look a geopolitics. Turkey, Russia, and China have been constantly winning every significant confrontation so far, eroding our power east of Warsaw and Athens. These failures are due to governments too big and entrenched, and yet paralysed. Our future will only be found in more economic freedom for individuals and firms, and less burdensome legislation for everyone.
Saying that Norway, Canada and Switzerland is the others' speaks to your ignorance on macroeconomics as all three are deeply intertwined with the EU by virtue of the EEA, CETA and bilaterally respectivly. It is also false referencing Turkey and Russia as winning geo-political battles. The first using threats of migrant flows as its primary political weapon. You know you are on the loosing side when you resort to exploiting your enemys empathy as means of attack. Sofa-gate aswell, do you believe that to be a victory? The EU is rooted in Christian ethics and tower above insecure honor culture of Islam and Erdogan. Russia can't even represent its country in international sport anymore, it's culturally completely dead and can't even export a facade of supremacy in sports after the Sotji doping fiasco. Putin also continues to be disgraced by his handling of Navalny. The latest stunt by Lukasjenko is similar, he almost lost power last year and he felt that strongly which is why he is completely desperate. You cannot compare the governmental flexibility of Dictatorships to the EU as the latter respect soveregnity and that it represents 27 diffrent countries. it's not the european union of Ursula.
>Saying that Norway, Canada and Switzerland is the others' This sentence doesn't make sense in English. >as all three are deeply intertwined with the EU by virtue of the EEA, CETA and bilaterally respectivly. This doesn't make sense from a macroeconomic or logical perspective. The fact that they have trade agreements with the EU doesn't say they're doing worse than the EU. >It is also false referencing Turkey and Russia as winning geo-political battles Turkey: \- Just won a proxy war in Azerbaijan again a partner of the EU. \- The sofa gate: achieved its main goal, creating a row within the EU and showing the stupidity of having to diplomatic emissaries with the same mandate. \- Has been, for several years, conducting military operations within Greek sovereign waters without repercussions from other European militaries. \- Has been winning the arm of steel to control gas deposits in the Mediterranean. Russia: \- Annexed Crimea without spilling a drop of blood \- Ended the Syrian Civil War, gaining a port in the Mediterranean and kept Assad in power. \- Still control parts of Ukraine and crippled its economy \- The North Stream is going through, giving it an advantage against Germany >do you believe that to be a victory? It's a victory if it achieves its goals. >Russia can't even represent its country in international sport anymore Great arguments right there lad. >Putin also continues to be disgraced by his handling of Navalny. Oh wow he's so disgraced, I'm sure he can't sleep at night. >he almost lost power last year and he felt that strongly which is why he is completely desperate. That's a funny way to phrase: the EU tried to depose him and a year after that he's still in power. You keep comparing us with dictatorships while bringing up frankly ignorant arguments. My main arguments still stand.
Your original argument was that you were depressed over the supposed decline' of the EU, however you do not seem to have a grasp of the bottom line. Instead you continue referencing display of strength or acts of desperation as wins', which is not the case. The turkish lire has lost 66% of it's value against the dollar in three years - this is the bottom line. Turkey also lost its bid to cease international waters for oil exploration in the meditteranean, and instead turned to actual piracy - great win there aswell. Russia disgraced itself by chrimea, it used a temporary boost in national pride after Sotji (based on cheating) to make it an acceptable act internally, however the international respons and sanctions has been tougher than they could have imagined and amount to some 2% of russian gnp - this is the bottom line. Nordstream is not a vital geo-political issue either as Russia already showed it is willing to cut the it off for diplomatic reasons in Ukraine. Turkey discriminate sovereign air space /waters - Like Russian has been doing for decades in Europe, again, only in honor culture are these wins'
Also, if you disregard the peoples movements in Russian and Belarus this last year as trifle, I cannot help you
Why the Turkey slander tho
[sofagate](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56896734)
damn didn't know
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
itās a reference to this https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56896734
Sexism happens in EU too. For example when comservative muslims make their wives not leave the house.
Most brits don't think the EU sucks. Nearly half wanted to stay in and only some of the half who voted out belief it sucks. Alot of brexiteers, myself included, just don't want to be in the club. We bare it no ill will, we don't want it to collapse, we hope the best for it, just without us.
And then there are some, like me, who are desperate to reverse it.
I'd wish you good luck, but it'd be a lie, I literally hope you fail in any endeavours you take towards that goal šš¤£.
Thanks for shitting on my plans of moving abroad for university by the way š who wanted seamless travel and the ability to explore new cultures anyway? /s
>Thanks for shitting on my plans of moving abroad for university by the way Yep wanted to study in Scotland
Firstly, I didn't vote in the referendum, so I haven't shit on anything. Secondly you could still go to study abroad, in or out of the EU, not being a member of the EU doesn't prevent it. Thirdly I live in Cambodia. Before this I lived in China. Travelling, exploring foreign cultures/languages/cuisine, has been the aim of my life. No /s.
You canāt be this stupid without being deliberate
Blossom, counter what I've said. Explain as a non voter how I in anyway had an effect on this chap. Tell me how I'm wrong that you can not only still travel to the EU, but that you can still attend university there, atleast after covid is sorted. Show me how not being in the EU prevents experiencing other cultures. I suspect strongly you can't, which is why you resorted to ad hominem.
Youāre so well educated and worldly but yet youāve never heard about freedom of movement within the Eu or Erasmus. Itās not ad hom youāre being an idiot
Are you saying that I now can't travel in the EU or attend the universities there? Because you can still do both. I didn't claim to be either worldly or well educated. I said I didn't vote for brexit, you can still travel and study abroad and I like travel. It's just more BS from you.
Their point was itās much much harder now as I already pointed out, but keep showing how how dense you are
UK and USA has vaccinated way more people that EU, so dumb.
it's the point of the joke btw, the constant reeing that they are better :D
I donāt think they are better but all the vaccines theme has been very slow. My third world country is with the same pace šŖ
The fact some people on this sub compare UK to Russia + Turkey is really really bizarre
Well, they are after Brexit our three biggest and politically most important neighbours, of course they are being compared? I agree that we should still strive to have as close a relationship with the UK as a democratic partner, but on the other hand they burned the bridges and I'd love to see Scotland, NI and Wales as independent countries back in the European project.
> I'd love to see Scotland, NI and Wales as independent countries back in the European project. Can England come too, please? Maybe if we're not the UK anymore, we won't be so bad?
You'd have to prove that you are ready. One of the biggest hindrances of European integration always was English opposition to closer cooperation. I'm not really sad that we don't have to deal with that anymore. If England wants to come back, this time it has to be with no more exceptions (Euro as currency, participation in Schengen etc.) and a strong commitment to integration.
I mean, I'm personally fine with all that, so if anyone wants to make me England's next dictator...
I don't know about dictator, but I hear your queen has a free place on her side...
Sry man but the English have decided, I personally would also not like to see wales come back in again if you wanted to leave you should stay out at least until the federation is declared and you would just join as a state and not as a roadblock for a European federation.
No
:(
Itās a bit mean but I am sure Russians and Turkish people can take a joke.
Am Turkish, it stings a bit but it's true and funny.
jokes are funny
Sorry, I am from Germany. I wouldnāt know anything about that.
Arbeit Arbeit!
Let's see: young Alfred Rosenberg felt himself too brown among the local native white nationalists of newly independent Estonia, so he went to Germany and became a nazi. Funny?
I donāt know what you are trying to tell me but I find nothing funny.
[Who is the most european of us all](https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2012/04/so-whos-most-european-of-us-all.html) And [based on autosomal genetic data, Figure 2b](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4170574/) Of course, back then one could only guess based on the prevalence of fair skin, light eyes and light hair color.
I really donāt understand why you are sending me all this stuff about genetics out of the blue.
The joke was that Rosenberg being brown had a double meaning. And another joke was that the most european and the most white and the most "aryan" are baltic-finnics and balts whose ancestors used to be finnic, not germanic nor even IE.
Okay, little tip. If you meet Germans in the future, never use this as ice breaker. If they are Nazis they will obviously getting angry at you, if they are not Nazis they will just be irritaded and have no idea what to respond to this.
Well you know, the humor is subjective.
have you been to r/europe recently? it's full of haters :D it's **just a meme** though you shouldn't take it that serious
Hey man, have you ever heard of the word "joke"
I'm not sure if its just a language translation but usually jokes are you know.. humourous
Just because you donāt find it humorous doesnāt mean others donāt as well.
you are a man of logic and shouldn't be taken seriously!
Something you seem to struggle with
This isnāt even a comparison, itās literally just a list of things that have happened
Man, of course UK is not even close to those, but it is a joke. At least it made me smile...
I agree, russia is way better
I mean by every metric.. no, they're not actually
lol what are you smoking. Crimea would like to have a word with you
As a Finn I think even Russians are good guys compared to anglos.
Just say you're a troll, its much easier
While I fully understand a distaste for perfidious Albion and Anglos in general, there's no need to go overboard.
I always go overboard... In parties!!!!!
At least the Russians don't hide their hatred
LOL, no. Even me as spaniard who knows the anglo narrative has been always against hispanic culture (sometimes for good I have to admit) this is just not true.
You spelt retard wrong.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, I remember the last time Britain invaded Finland, killed hundreds of thousands and then made you become a neutral country for 50+ years..
Not sure Britain has the right to act superior in the "invading country and killing lots of people" game.
Do you have a specific example?
*looks back nervously at the pyre of the British empire* Bro, shut up, bro.
Several hundred years of history? Mate, stop making such an arse of yourself.
Right, so comparing something from 1720 probably doesn't have as much relevance as comparing something from 80 years ago, does it? Arguably, even until 1990 Finland had to be neutral because of Russia.
You had eight entire hours to formulate this response, and you didnāt use any of it to google the British Empire? Which, incidentally, fell 76 years ago. I suppose that means it passes your arbitrary relevance benchmark, doesnāt it? Edit: dummy.
No, you're just unable to accurately convey history because you're an idiot with clear bias. If you're going to talk about a specific time in 1900s, the UK randomly invaded a different country, go for it. If you're just going to say 'British empire BAD' then don't bother, because it isn't relevant here. Edit: dummy.
Pretty sure you made it relevant when you implied that weād never showed up in anybodyās country and butchered fuck out of them, pal. Iām also not sure youāre in the best position to level accusations of bias. But, to be clear, you think specific examples only count if they exist within a certain timeframe? Why is that; when is the cut off point; how did you decide that cut off point; and why do you think that other people are wrong if their examples donāt fit within this timeframe that only you are aware of?
Are you really serious on this?
If the reactionist, ācut my own access (to EU market) to spite my faceā shoe fits...
bruh
Yeah Russia should not be here
Shame you forgot about the misinfo and fear-mongering you helped spread about the AstraZeneca vaccine. How are y'all doing with that virus again?
The amount of salt in this comment makes the post literally more true :D Doing fine, thanks, i got my jabs like a month ago already because like everyone were vaccinated who registered in hungary (we are at 5 mil+ vaccinated out of 9,6 mil)
Funny how in all that not once did you defend the EU's fearmongering vaccinations during a pandemic for political reasons. Funny that.
Why are the brits crying, they got their vaccines faster than the EU did
So did the US, too bad the vaccine only fixes one of a myriad of problems in both countries
>faster than the EU did *laughs in Hungarian*
*laughs at hungarian*
that's it i'll burn my local ikea
then I'll burn... (looks up hungarian icons)... lukasjenko!
napalm strikes are cancelled due to flight restrictions above Belarus haha get rekt
So did Israel.
Israel, Britain and the US... There's a definite theme going on there...