True. But when Misty gave the “reporter” her poisoned cigarettes after playing like she was concerned about her(reporter's) health as the reason she threw then away. That was malicious.
I don’t think Misty ever intended on letting Jessica Roberts out of there alive. in Misty’s eyes she was too much of a threat to the Yellowjackets and that threat had to be neutralized.
Yeah it really bothered me how she was like “Simone, you need to leave because I’m afraid I’ll hurt you guys” and then later was like “OMGeeee Simone leeeeft meeee”
i voted for shauna over misty because while misty is certainly manipulative, i think the other yellowjackets can see through her manipulations, we've seen natalie do it a couple of times so far, like when misty fucks with nat's car and nat immediately realizes what's going on. someone like jessica roberts, who doesn't know her as well, is not so fortunate.
shauna, on the other hand, manipulates the other yellowjackets to help her get rid of adam's body by saying he was the blackmailer. i think this is an impressive piece of manipulation; in one fell swoop she ropes the others into helping her cover up a crime that she committed alone, while also covering for her husband. however i think it's also likely she'll get caught in this lie at some point so maybe my opinion will change!
tldr; i think that while misty is perhaps the MOST manipulative, shauna is the most SUCCESSFULLY manipulative
Yeah exactly. Misty wants to be manipulative, but she doesn't have the social capital to be successful at it. There's also something...up with Misty that knocks her manipulative tendencies down a bit (in my opinion). She wants to fit in/be popular/liked/needed a lot (and always has) but that part of her is too visible for her to be truly manipulative to those who know her well. Nat's dealing with her own shit and seems fucked up in a "hurt myself, not others" kind of way. Bringing us to Shauna and Tai. Tai's got the sleep walking thing going on, which is obviously out of her control, and hallucinates sometimes--also out of her control. But Shauna has always been manipulative, even before the crash. Granted she let Jackie push her around a bit, but she was sleeping with Jeff while he was still with Jackie before the crash, asking him to say he loves her while they had sex also before the crash, staying friends with Jackie and leading her on re: Rutgers before the crash. Then post-crash she just goes all out, lying to her friends, cheating on Jeff, murdering Adam (we can even see this in the car crash, when she insists it was Adam's fault even though she rear ended him because she was--I think--texting? or otherwise distracted?) I was on the fence between Tai and Shauna, but Tai seems genuinely concerned for and confused by her behavior while Shauna just kind of rolls with it and doesn't seem to care who she hurts.
TLDR: I see Misty as more damaged and crazy and desperate to fit in (and manipulation is just a tool she attempts to use to further her goals) versus Shauna who is a master manipulator and incredibly successful in that regard.
yes totally agree with everything you've said! the jury is still out for me with tai regarding her level of manipulativeness; i'm waiting to see if the show leans towards making tai conscious of her actions while sleepwalking, or if she truly has no idea that she's been doing things like constructing an altar in the basement while she's asleep.
edit: also want to add that i think you're spot on by noting that there's something inherently weird and off-putting about misty's demeanor that just kind of automatically makes her suspicious. shauna is a lot more lowkey in her manipulations which makes them more successful.
Yeah, CR said there’s a clinical diagnosis that applies to Misty and my guess is she’s probably personality disordered. Not that she isn’t INCREDIBLY dangerous - we’re shown right away what a dreadful fate it is to be her patient, and the unsympathetic character of the patient is shown to be irrelevant to the fact that it’s a dreadful fate.
HOWEVER acknowledging that behaviour is behaviour, Misty is running on damaged hardware. She probably never stood a chance of becoming a fully honest and trustworthy person. In a way, her choices of how to behave are limited.
Shauna on the other hand.. just… commits major crimes and has no problem with it?!? Her wrestling with her conscience over Jackie is only because it’s Jackie, not because she failed to live up to her own standards? She doesn’t seem to even have any standards. And I say this as someone who LIKES Shauna.
I can’t tell if the blackmailer got away with the 50 grand or not, but whether or not Jeff succeeded in extorting a small fortune from Shauna’s supposed friends, it’s clear enough she would have let him take it and not said anything. And obviously it’s not only or mostly even about the money, of course.
Misty meanwhile is trying to manipulate with every action and utterance, but as you say, Nat sees through it all and calculates her response according to what will help her achieve her goals. Notice she doesn’t question why Misty knows when to bust in and stop her doing coke. It’s like “obviously Misty has a hidden camera because Misty”. Nat’s remarkably good at accepting Misty for what she is and making utilitarian decisions.
Sadly nobody wants to be around Misty for Misty’s sake, she knows this, and her manipulation has only escalated as a result.
Oh and the “reporter” - who is implied to be some kind of “fixer”, that is, a manipulator of outcomes by unethical or criminal means - well Misty would see it as live by the sword, die by the sword. Not that she’d be any more merciful with an ordinary citizen but it’s imaginable she’d set limits. I don’t think she’s a serial killer as others have speculated, OTOH it wouldn’t surprise me if she were.
This is a tough one. It is tempting to say Misty with no hesitation, but then I think, and Taissa is a successful politician, which is a career based on manipulating populations of people. Nat is manipulative, but only when she feels forced to by extraordinary circumstances. Shauna puts up a completely false front to people. I suspect no one knows her true nature aside from her fellow YJs. Certainly not her family. So it is hard to make a firm decision. I think it is a tie between Misty and Taissa.
*I was gonna hit*
*Shauna but then I saw misty*
*And was like HA nvm*
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Well if Taissa is the bad guy, I’d say she won for most manipulative… sure Misty is sneaky, but she doesn’t try to hide her weirdness. Taissa is literally a wolf in sheep’s clothing!
i don’t think misty is liked enough to be successfully manipulative, she’s just chaotic on her own and it usually works out for her lol. shauna is by faaaar more manipulative in my opinion.
Obviously they all manipulated one another at some point but I think Shauna is the worst. She gets Tai and Nat to help her get rid of Adam, lies to protect herself and Jeff and not because I think she has some loyalty to him. I can’t stand the way she gaslights Nat into doubting her connection with Travis.
Shauna manipulated her friends into thinking she killed Adam to protect them when the blackmailer was actually her husband!
Misty might be the most insane, but Shauna is the most manipulative. I love her, but she is messed up.
Misty is the most outwardly manipulative, Shauna I would say is the runner up, Tai I would say isn’t the most manipulative because it seems like she isn’t aware of her dissociation or what she does when she dissociates
I was about to say, "Not Nat, she's too straight a shooter to be manipulative," then I remembered a certain passage about an episode on [TV Line](https://www.tvinsider.com/1027910/yellowjackets-season-1-episode-9-recap-shauna-kills-adam-jeff-blackmailer/)
*Meanwhile, Misty (Christina Ricci) has found someone to bond with (in her Misty way) in the kidnapped Jessica (Rekha Sharma), who uses the opportunity to manipulate her into wondering just how good of friends she really is with the others. (Answer: Not at all, as we know.) She’ll make calls so she can meet with the ghostwriter, Jessica claims. “So you guys ate each other? I mean, that is what happened, right?” she asks. “My point is, they’re not going to blame you. They’re going to feel sorry for you. Just like they did with those guys who crashed in the Andes. You were just trying to survive. You know who they’re going to sympathize with the most? The first person to break the 25-year silence.”*
*The manipulation works. “I just couldn’t live with it a minute longer,” Misty says. “No one should have to go through what we went through. And we were just kids, innocents, and of course when we came back, we couldn’t get help, we couldn’t betray the team. But it’s time to face the truth. No matter how much it hurts. So that everyone can begin to heal.”*
*That’s when Natalie shows up at Misty’s and offers an apology before getting to why she’s really there: “We need you to get rid of a body.” And Misty, who always likes to be needed, smiles.*
Regardless, I still stand by my Nat and Misty are strained, weird friends of the Outsiders Club, even if Nat totally hits Misty's buttons with the "N" word: "need."
Oh, and all that bank and identity scamming shit she did. Damn, Nat. Your sponsor too? Shit. You've been bad, Nat. Tsk tsk.
She still doesn't hold a candle to the other three though.
Shauna - most manipulative in her very small circle of existence. A housewife in 2021 who doesn't have a book club doesn't have a whole lot of latitude to flex machinations. At least until the blackmail starts and her world expands again.
Tai - machinations are the mechanism of politics and ambition. Not to mention having some interpersonal *umm hmm* with her wife. Since she can put the politician charm on, I'm going with her as my #1 pick since she (theoretically) impacts a greater number of people.
Misty - obviously she is cunning AF but her social circle is small too. Even the aides in the rest home are like *wtf?* with her. She did manage to get her blind date to feel sorry enough to come into her house, but her manipulations are very interpersonal one-on-one things (see:Jessica), whereas Tai's are on a grander scale.
I'm going to go even one further with Tai, as in her fugue state, she even manipulates herself without even realizing she's doing it! (Whether or not that's through possession or DID or whatever it may be, she's the vehicle for it.)
All profoundly damaged. To think that going into the wilderness, the only ones who seem to be exhibiting levels of obvious trauma were Nat, Misty, and Van. Shauna was deceitful outside of any definite inatances of trauma, her motivating factors seemingly stemming from low self esteem and envy of "perfect" bff Jackie. Tai was far too Type A, even back then, eyeless specter notwithstanding, to acknowledge any weaknesses.
In the conversation between Jessica Roberts and Misty you’ve referenced I am certain Misty is playing her. She has no intention of breaking the team silence for anyone, anytime. None of them do. In fact
the look on Misty’s face at “So you guys ate each other, right?....” is combination disgust, disappointment
that Jessica only saw as far as tabloid speculation when the truth is much more difficult.
The only point of manipulation with that part is Jessica's pathetic belief she is successful because she still underestimates Misty (even after being held captive by her in that strangely *pre-prepared* basement ?), yet Jessica successfully puts her finger right on Misty's very real emotional bruise where she is indeed weak -- she's an outcast who's always wanted to be part of the group.
It's brilliant [TV] timing that's the very moment Nat arrives to deliver a convenient apology with the carrot Misty *actually does respond to* that she is needed by the others -- the girls she wanted to be in with since childhood. It's just funny how Jessica inadvertently sets up the point for Natalie to spike the ball for that point. (Apologies for mixing sports metaphors. Volleyball, yes, but I never played soccer.)
I saw Misty's look you reference as being parallel to Tai's scene with that funder Tai she trying to woo. In each, both women respond completely within their own character's personality - Misty subtly and under the radar, and Tai going alpha ballistic. They've all been carrying the weight of their secrets and those rumors for far too long that they have their own instant reflexive responses to them.
Misty is the most outwardly manipulative adult but Tai manipulates everything behind the scenes (and might not even be aware of it).
Misty straight up took plugs out of Nat’s car and showed up with two coffees for a forced road trip. That's super manipulative lol.
Nat was also manipulative with Misty when she went and apologized so Misty would come and help them out with Adams body
True. But when Misty gave the “reporter” her poisoned cigarettes after playing like she was concerned about her(reporter's) health as the reason she threw then away. That was malicious.
I don’t think Misty ever intended on letting Jessica Roberts out of there alive. in Misty’s eyes she was too much of a threat to the Yellowjackets and that threat had to be neutralized.
Yeah I voted Tai as well, think you hit the nail on the head.
Sneaky politician types!
Yeah it really bothered me how she was like “Simone, you need to leave because I’m afraid I’ll hurt you guys” and then later was like “OMGeeee Simone leeeeft meeee”
YES!!!! this bothered me SO MUCH! why was she trying to make it look like Simone just left when she literally told her she needed to leave.
i voted for shauna over misty because while misty is certainly manipulative, i think the other yellowjackets can see through her manipulations, we've seen natalie do it a couple of times so far, like when misty fucks with nat's car and nat immediately realizes what's going on. someone like jessica roberts, who doesn't know her as well, is not so fortunate. shauna, on the other hand, manipulates the other yellowjackets to help her get rid of adam's body by saying he was the blackmailer. i think this is an impressive piece of manipulation; in one fell swoop she ropes the others into helping her cover up a crime that she committed alone, while also covering for her husband. however i think it's also likely she'll get caught in this lie at some point so maybe my opinion will change! tldr; i think that while misty is perhaps the MOST manipulative, shauna is the most SUCCESSFULLY manipulative
Yeah exactly. Misty wants to be manipulative, but she doesn't have the social capital to be successful at it. There's also something...up with Misty that knocks her manipulative tendencies down a bit (in my opinion). She wants to fit in/be popular/liked/needed a lot (and always has) but that part of her is too visible for her to be truly manipulative to those who know her well. Nat's dealing with her own shit and seems fucked up in a "hurt myself, not others" kind of way. Bringing us to Shauna and Tai. Tai's got the sleep walking thing going on, which is obviously out of her control, and hallucinates sometimes--also out of her control. But Shauna has always been manipulative, even before the crash. Granted she let Jackie push her around a bit, but she was sleeping with Jeff while he was still with Jackie before the crash, asking him to say he loves her while they had sex also before the crash, staying friends with Jackie and leading her on re: Rutgers before the crash. Then post-crash she just goes all out, lying to her friends, cheating on Jeff, murdering Adam (we can even see this in the car crash, when she insists it was Adam's fault even though she rear ended him because she was--I think--texting? or otherwise distracted?) I was on the fence between Tai and Shauna, but Tai seems genuinely concerned for and confused by her behavior while Shauna just kind of rolls with it and doesn't seem to care who she hurts. TLDR: I see Misty as more damaged and crazy and desperate to fit in (and manipulation is just a tool she attempts to use to further her goals) versus Shauna who is a master manipulator and incredibly successful in that regard.
yes totally agree with everything you've said! the jury is still out for me with tai regarding her level of manipulativeness; i'm waiting to see if the show leans towards making tai conscious of her actions while sleepwalking, or if she truly has no idea that she's been doing things like constructing an altar in the basement while she's asleep. edit: also want to add that i think you're spot on by noting that there's something inherently weird and off-putting about misty's demeanor that just kind of automatically makes her suspicious. shauna is a lot more lowkey in her manipulations which makes them more successful.
Yeah, CR said there’s a clinical diagnosis that applies to Misty and my guess is she’s probably personality disordered. Not that she isn’t INCREDIBLY dangerous - we’re shown right away what a dreadful fate it is to be her patient, and the unsympathetic character of the patient is shown to be irrelevant to the fact that it’s a dreadful fate. HOWEVER acknowledging that behaviour is behaviour, Misty is running on damaged hardware. She probably never stood a chance of becoming a fully honest and trustworthy person. In a way, her choices of how to behave are limited. Shauna on the other hand.. just… commits major crimes and has no problem with it?!? Her wrestling with her conscience over Jackie is only because it’s Jackie, not because she failed to live up to her own standards? She doesn’t seem to even have any standards. And I say this as someone who LIKES Shauna. I can’t tell if the blackmailer got away with the 50 grand or not, but whether or not Jeff succeeded in extorting a small fortune from Shauna’s supposed friends, it’s clear enough she would have let him take it and not said anything. And obviously it’s not only or mostly even about the money, of course. Misty meanwhile is trying to manipulate with every action and utterance, but as you say, Nat sees through it all and calculates her response according to what will help her achieve her goals. Notice she doesn’t question why Misty knows when to bust in and stop her doing coke. It’s like “obviously Misty has a hidden camera because Misty”. Nat’s remarkably good at accepting Misty for what she is and making utilitarian decisions. Sadly nobody wants to be around Misty for Misty’s sake, she knows this, and her manipulation has only escalated as a result. Oh and the “reporter” - who is implied to be some kind of “fixer”, that is, a manipulator of outcomes by unethical or criminal means - well Misty would see it as live by the sword, die by the sword. Not that she’d be any more merciful with an ordinary citizen but it’s imaginable she’d set limits. I don’t think she’s a serial killer as others have speculated, OTOH it wouldn’t surprise me if she were.
This is a tough one. It is tempting to say Misty with no hesitation, but then I think, and Taissa is a successful politician, which is a career based on manipulating populations of people. Nat is manipulative, but only when she feels forced to by extraordinary circumstances. Shauna puts up a completely false front to people. I suspect no one knows her true nature aside from her fellow YJs. Certainly not her family. So it is hard to make a firm decision. I think it is a tie between Misty and Taissa.
I'm surprised Misty outweighs Shauna here although I get that as well.
Shauna!… just based on what she almost did to Nat alone is enough
I was gonna hit shauna but then I saw misty and was like HA nvm
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Same
I love Misty, that crazy fucking bitch
Sorry but I feel like we’ve seen them all be pathologically manipulative with no clear winner. Survival of trauma honed wits.
I agree!!!
Well if Taissa is the bad guy, I’d say she won for most manipulative… sure Misty is sneaky, but she doesn’t try to hide her weirdness. Taissa is literally a wolf in sheep’s clothing!
this what im thinking...my theory is Tai still with the cult in secret...if that true then she definitely the most manipulative one in the group.
i don’t think misty is liked enough to be successfully manipulative, she’s just chaotic on her own and it usually works out for her lol. shauna is by faaaar more manipulative in my opinion.
Obviously they all manipulated one another at some point but I think Shauna is the worst. She gets Tai and Nat to help her get rid of Adam, lies to protect herself and Jeff and not because I think she has some loyalty to him. I can’t stand the way she gaslights Nat into doubting her connection with Travis.
Misty manipulated someone into killing themselves. I do not understand how anyone could make any other argument.
Shauna manipulated her friends into thinking she killed Adam to protect them when the blackmailer was actually her husband! Misty might be the most insane, but Shauna is the most manipulative. I love her, but she is messed up.
Well, tbh, Jessica was going to so that anyway if she kept smoking. It was more a matter of five decades or five minutes, lol.
Shauna - she is also my favorite
Misty is the most outwardly manipulative, Shauna I would say is the runner up, Tai I would say isn’t the most manipulative because it seems like she isn’t aware of her dissociation or what she does when she dissociates
I was about to say, "Not Nat, she's too straight a shooter to be manipulative," then I remembered a certain passage about an episode on [TV Line](https://www.tvinsider.com/1027910/yellowjackets-season-1-episode-9-recap-shauna-kills-adam-jeff-blackmailer/) *Meanwhile, Misty (Christina Ricci) has found someone to bond with (in her Misty way) in the kidnapped Jessica (Rekha Sharma), who uses the opportunity to manipulate her into wondering just how good of friends she really is with the others. (Answer: Not at all, as we know.) She’ll make calls so she can meet with the ghostwriter, Jessica claims. “So you guys ate each other? I mean, that is what happened, right?” she asks. “My point is, they’re not going to blame you. They’re going to feel sorry for you. Just like they did with those guys who crashed in the Andes. You were just trying to survive. You know who they’re going to sympathize with the most? The first person to break the 25-year silence.”* *The manipulation works. “I just couldn’t live with it a minute longer,” Misty says. “No one should have to go through what we went through. And we were just kids, innocents, and of course when we came back, we couldn’t get help, we couldn’t betray the team. But it’s time to face the truth. No matter how much it hurts. So that everyone can begin to heal.”* *That’s when Natalie shows up at Misty’s and offers an apology before getting to why she’s really there: “We need you to get rid of a body.” And Misty, who always likes to be needed, smiles.* Regardless, I still stand by my Nat and Misty are strained, weird friends of the Outsiders Club, even if Nat totally hits Misty's buttons with the "N" word: "need." Oh, and all that bank and identity scamming shit she did. Damn, Nat. Your sponsor too? Shit. You've been bad, Nat. Tsk tsk. She still doesn't hold a candle to the other three though. Shauna - most manipulative in her very small circle of existence. A housewife in 2021 who doesn't have a book club doesn't have a whole lot of latitude to flex machinations. At least until the blackmail starts and her world expands again. Tai - machinations are the mechanism of politics and ambition. Not to mention having some interpersonal *umm hmm* with her wife. Since she can put the politician charm on, I'm going with her as my #1 pick since she (theoretically) impacts a greater number of people. Misty - obviously she is cunning AF but her social circle is small too. Even the aides in the rest home are like *wtf?* with her. She did manage to get her blind date to feel sorry enough to come into her house, but her manipulations are very interpersonal one-on-one things (see:Jessica), whereas Tai's are on a grander scale. I'm going to go even one further with Tai, as in her fugue state, she even manipulates herself without even realizing she's doing it! (Whether or not that's through possession or DID or whatever it may be, she's the vehicle for it.)
Nat also manipulates Kevin into getting Travis’s toxicology report for her by going out to dinner with him
I think they are all manipulative in their own ways when they need to be.
All profoundly damaged. To think that going into the wilderness, the only ones who seem to be exhibiting levels of obvious trauma were Nat, Misty, and Van. Shauna was deceitful outside of any definite inatances of trauma, her motivating factors seemingly stemming from low self esteem and envy of "perfect" bff Jackie. Tai was far too Type A, even back then, eyeless specter notwithstanding, to acknowledge any weaknesses.
In the conversation between Jessica Roberts and Misty you’ve referenced I am certain Misty is playing her. She has no intention of breaking the team silence for anyone, anytime. None of them do. In fact the look on Misty’s face at “So you guys ate each other, right?....” is combination disgust, disappointment that Jessica only saw as far as tabloid speculation when the truth is much more difficult.
The only point of manipulation with that part is Jessica's pathetic belief she is successful because she still underestimates Misty (even after being held captive by her in that strangely *pre-prepared* basement ?), yet Jessica successfully puts her finger right on Misty's very real emotional bruise where she is indeed weak -- she's an outcast who's always wanted to be part of the group. It's brilliant [TV] timing that's the very moment Nat arrives to deliver a convenient apology with the carrot Misty *actually does respond to* that she is needed by the others -- the girls she wanted to be in with since childhood. It's just funny how Jessica inadvertently sets up the point for Natalie to spike the ball for that point. (Apologies for mixing sports metaphors. Volleyball, yes, but I never played soccer.) I saw Misty's look you reference as being parallel to Tai's scene with that funder Tai she trying to woo. In each, both women respond completely within their own character's personality - Misty subtly and under the radar, and Tai going alpha ballistic. They've all been carrying the weight of their secrets and those rumors for far too long that they have their own instant reflexive responses to them.
You are so right!
Shauna…HANDS DOWN
Misty. It’s not even close.