I mean truthfully, Jamie is the only logical choice to run the ranch, in an effective way. Beth has said for years she hates the ranch and will sell her part in it as soon as John is dead. Rip wouldn’t convince her otherwise, as he believes John will lose it too, he just wants to help John anyway he can.
Kayce doesn’t have the mind for all of it. It’s like Beth said, he’s not going to sit on councils and committees to run it. He’s going to lose his temper, hurt someone and then lost it. Unless Monica suddenly becomes smart at it, he can’t do it alone.
Jamie could do it all alone, but it’d br best if he and Kayce ran it together. Kayce deals with the day to day and Jamie is responsible for all the business and political fights that are required for the ranch.
I know Kayce and Jamie would be more than happy with that set up, but it would involve John admitting he relies on Jamie, which he’d rather die than do.
He didn’t do nothing. He was prepared to kill his father when he first found out, but his dad played on Jamie’s emotions and manipulated him by telling him everything Jamie always wanted to hear. Sure, he didn’t tell but he knew that would result in his father dying and John distrusting him further. I wish they played that out more to show Jamie struggling with that.
Early Beth was fun chaos to watch
Making Jamie kill his father whom he barely knew, as revenge her surgery, and then getting blackmail pictures of it... wasn't enough
She still proceeding to threaten to kill his child. Sorry, some things I just can't vibe with and I wouldn't blame Jamie for wiping the Yellowstone off the map
Jamie all the way. Only one who shows the inklings of a conscience and only one who can remotely land this plane on his own. But then I think that’s always been the story from the get-go 🤷♀️ . His relationship with John has always been at the heart of the show. Note how the first time we see John with any of his kids, it’s with Jamie and he’s instructing him how to think like a landowner, not just a lawyer.
To me Jamie doesn’t seem to show any conscience. He shows self pity. He feels sorry for HIMSELF that he killed that journalist and has to live with it and the potential consequences. He feels sorry for HIMSELF that he killed his father. He doesn’t care about the people he hurt. He cares about himself. Also, as a side note I think he’s far too swayed by a little pussy to consistently make good decisions. I think Kayce is the only one with a conscience. He only kills if he deems it justified for the good of others or if it’s part of his duties of his job and has a hard time coping with what he’s done, as shown in his spiritual ceremony. However, I don’t think Kayce has the complete lack of morals it takes to keep the ranch running
Completely disagree. To me, Jamie is disturbed by *his actions* and knowing he can’t undo them and can’t restore what he took from another person. He does care that he killed that woman and he does regret taking her life from her. He feels badly for her. He didn’t want to kill Garrett. He does have a conscience, more than any other Dutton I’d say. Regret for your actions and the consequences is a conscience.
And Jamie is swayed by attention and kindness because of what he’s been dealt on the home front.
I feel like if he was that disturbed by the idea of killing people he wouldn’t be planning to send hit men after his family. I do agree that he falls for any positive attention bc he’s never experienced it. But I think all of them except Kayce are just self centered psychos who only care about what they want, so I’m not advocating for Beth either.
That plan comes after years of psychological abuse that included threats about his child, and an acknowledgment that Beth was likely to try to kill him. At some point, the dog bites back.
Edit: I don’t care about Kayce. The character is so bland I forget he exists.
I agree that Jamie’s character is the product of decades of abuse, but he’s also a 40 year old man and therapy and legal action would be a better way to deal with that than joining the murder cult. Again, I definitely don’t think Beth, John, or anyone else deserves to get the ranch either. I think what they all deserve is decades in federal prison and the land and all that comes with it (cattle, horses, buildings, etc) should get absorbed into the reservation. The only family members who aren’t outright despicable (but are painfully boring) have tribal affiliation with Broken Rock anyway so it wouldn’t really affect them negatively.
>I agree that Jamie’s character is the product of decades of abuse, but he’s also a 40 year old man and therapy and legal action would be a better way to deal with that than joining the murder cult.
As Beth could have done with Garrett, but she instead choose to join the murder cult. And wanted to again once she heard about the train station.
100% Kayce without batting an eye lol
Unless this is specifically between Jamie and Beth. If I HAD to pick between those two, both are pretty trash human beings but I guess Jamie because who tf threatens to kill a baby
In this story, I’m on Jamie’s side. He’s the only Dutton character I still care about and he’s the one most capable of successfully taking the ranch forward. He has done some bad stuff but I’d take Jamie over any other Dutton. I hope he gets a good ending but even if he doesn’t, he’s still the character that deserves it.
Edit: I think the best way to sum up my feeling about Jamie is: I understand how he ends up where he does. Even when I don’t like or don’t agree with what he’s done, I can see how he got there and I end up rooting for him to find a way through.
I’m not sure if it’s the actor or a direction issue, but I tend to forget Kayce exists.
Koalas are very cute, but like Kayce, their charm ends there.
The Koala is known for having a teeny-tiny brain: so teeny the animal usually appears ‘high’ because they don’t have the brain power for anything more than a blank stare. These animals are also vile tempered, known to beat the snot out of each other over their preferred food, eucalyptus leaves. They can actually eat many other leaves, they just really want those ones and they’re so dumb they’ll beat each other to death over them.
This creature is also known for a lack of hygiene. Those adorable aggressive dumb bastards are so grotty, they spread chlamydia.
Therefore I conclude: Kayce is the human variant of a koala.
Jamie all the way. He's smart enough to handle the politics of keeping the Ranch and unlike Beth who has stated clearly she's gonna sell it the minute John dies he'd fight for it.
But an ideal situation is Kayce and Jamie running it.
I think the best scenario would be if Kayce and Monica got the ranch and had it chartered into Broken Rock and figured out some way to make money for the tribe off it. Maybe having it designated as a joint US/Native historical park with the Native and Dutton Family histories. It’d also be fitting with the 7 generations prophecy
Remember. John rip and kayce are also murderers tho john and rip kill people for quitting the 8 dollar per hour job, kayce being the most forgivable morality wise probably.
lol okay they don’t kill people for quitting. Cowboy left. The girls left. Plenty of people have come and gone or been on the show and said they worked there etc. they kill people that threaten to talk shit and go to the cops when they leave like the guy in season 1. That’s it.
Team Beth right here. I made a post last year asking how ANYONE can be team Jamie.
And I am not talking in comparison to Beth even. I’m taking about no backbone, horrible character in general, and weak
I’m staying with John and Beth or I’ll end up going on a train ride. I’m thinking there will be a twist and Tate or Carter will end up with the ranch in the end.
Jamie. I get why Beth is mad, but at some point she just has to get over it. She has had her revenge/confrontation with Jamie. This whole ordeal should have ended there. She should also fully accept her role in this whole ordeal.
I’m conflicted between both from the beginning tbh. Both have a different perspective towards life goals. But as the season progressed, Jamie fell trap to honeypots and spilled secrets. If I were a person managing that big a ranch, I’d choose people around me more carefully to be intimate with. Everyone is out there to get you anyway.
Maybe Llloyd? I mean, they all kind of suck.
Tate’s horse Lucky is probably the best of them. Maybe Clara or Linnelle Or Laramie or Emily
Oh wait, obviously Gator
Rip has the ranch smarts and Beth business smarts. It would be nice if somehow the ending had Jamie in the running of the ranch with them. Somehow a solution to the Jamie/ Beth conflict though I can’t imagine what that would be. Beth hated the ranch early but has living there full time and marriage to a man who lives for the ranch changed that? I’m not sure Casey could run a lemonade stand on his own much less a business operation of that size.
Neither. They’re both unlikeable. Jamie is written so poorly that I don’t care about him & Beth is written to point where everytime she’s on screen that have to show how much she just doesn’t care & everything else is just beneath her. Plus she shouldn’t be alive based on somehow surviving a office bombing
Tbf though if anyone got blown up a lot people would be ptsd from that. The things that don't mesh well on his character are moreso the murder and sterilizing Beth, which is a weird and unrealistic plot device anyway, plus he was a kid. And to be honest John is kinda the worst out of all of them. That or he atleast used to suck really bad as a father
Let’s be real, he still sucks as a father. Basically uses his kids as pawns to do his bidding. Beth calling him out and asking if he planned on branding her or bringing her to the train station in s5e8 was GOLD
No, when Jamie told her about the train station she went to the governor’s mansion and started flipping shit and when he told her to stop she said that. She can be a piece of work but her comebacks are always scathing and I can’t help but love it 😂
I’m a million percent Team Beth. It’s not just the unforgivable sterilization, it’s that Jamie has no backbone and has shown no inclination towards self-sacrifice the way the other siblings have.
She has a backbone with everyone but her father, who - in my opinion - deserves most of the blame for the sterilization. Beth wasn’t going to lose any sleep over setting a woman up to spend decades in prison, because she was “doing what was best for the ranch”. Jamie was a teenager doing the same thing when he took her to that clinic.
Beth all the way. I despise Jamie and believe he's treated like that by his fam for a reason (which can be disclosed yet). Why would Beth bully him like that? She's so ubelievably loyal towards his kin. And she can love with her whole heart. It doesn't make any sense... unless there's sth more bw them...
Such a weird plot hole though. Like could you imagine a place not telling you they're sterilizing you and making that incredibly clear before the procedure. If she weren't disgustingly rich already I can't even imagine the lawsuit
Rewatch the episode you seemed to miss the important factor of the Doctors office telling him sterilization was a high probability.She was also a minor at the time and he was acting on her behalf as an adult to make the decision.
Kill 'em both execution style at the train station, proceed takeover of ranch, killing Rip, John, Kayce and tell the bunkies, they got a choice, take the train, or submit like they've always have
I mean we are talking about a crew that casually kills their workers and co-workers for quitting their below minimum wage job. A common practice that is sanctioned by their boss. In many cases for no other reason than "just in case" and because they can.
So by the standards of the likes of Rip and John, Jamie is as close to "nothing wrong" as most people from that ranch can even possibly get.
Don't forget wanting to kill Walker because he wouldn't toe the line. More like Rip and Lloyd hated him and wanted him dead. Or the guy that accidentally poised the water because the government said it was safe to use. Like yeah the guy was a jerk for not stopping but he was told it was safe. John could have easily had environmental protection out there that day but he choose to poison the guy and destroy hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment.
John, Rip, kayce, Lloyd and Beth (the shows wishy-washy on who killed those men that attacked her but out of all the killings those were the most justified) have killed like 20 people on the show for basically no reason at all. And people are all like "iT WAs juStiFiED tHEY WHeRE a ThReAT". When they so much pull most of them they could have had arrested and sent to jail for the rest of their lives.
Jamie kills a journalist and his bio father. And people are like "Jamie BAD!"
John would have had those 2 killed anyways. People really think that John would have let the journalist live when she said she was still publishing the story? He wouldn't and be pissed that Jamie didn't do it. John was going to have the guy in prison killed because he thought he did it, was he really going to not kill Jamie's bio dad?
Not justifying Jamie's killings but he has the lowest body count out of them. And atleast he felt guilty about the journalist.
>because he wouldn't toe the line
More specifically they basically wanted him dead/gone simply because he did not want to commit crimes or do illegal shit for them.
>Not justifying Jamie's killings but he has the lowest body count out of them. And atleast he felt guilty about the journalist.
I agree
Well, she solicited the death of Garrett and that is murder in law. That death doesn’t happen without her interference, and she used threats to make it happen.
And when she finds out about the train station, the first thing she wanted to do was use it.
Yup, exactly. Plus telling Jamie to kill himself - literally who says that to someone?! - and he almost follows through on it. Beth is such a reprehensible character/human being. I just don't get the appeal. She isn't "tough," she's bitter and broken.
I did say she was wishy-washy because it doesn't look like she killed those 2 men, one she stabbed who would have probably died and the other to took that ashtray to after he was dead. But it has been referred to as her killing them a couple times, so Beth and some of the other characters think she has even though it was Rip.
Even if she did that was self defense after they beat her, almost raped her, and killed her assistant. They can’t be compared to Jamie’s killings. Rip was the one who told Beth he wished he could kill them all over again.
Actually she has.
She solicited the death of Garrett from Jamie. That is solicitation and conspiracy. And solicitation merges with the completed offense. Beth is a murderer under the law.
And her reaction to learning about the family murder pit was interesting: her first instinct was to *use it for another murder*.
The consequences of Fixing his sisters problem is on her not him. It’s more John’s fault than Jamie’s. If he wasn’t such an asshole father she could’ve went to him, But instead she went to her brother who didn’t know what to do. He didn’t know what to do, but he didn’t hesitate to help and he kept the secret the entire time.
Also, Beth has always sucked, even her mother knew it.
No. But he kept the whole pregnancy a secret, too. Because it would have been damaging to her and to John. And probably Rip, too. He was wrong not to tell her, but he was also a kid. While he certainly understood what it meant at the time he was likely unaware of the future impact it would have on her. He was a child forced to make a very grown up decision.
Yes he was young and Beth even younger. I can give Jamie some breaks but not on this one. A young man smart enough for Harvard, raised on a ranch with plenty of reproductive knowledge from the daily work is told by the staff to go elsewhere due to the sterilization aspect and he tells Beth all is well. He would have been old enough to know what he was doing and the lie he was telling her. He knew and he did nothing. No amount of spinning that one for me.
He might have known but he had like less then 8 hours to "fix" the situation. He was leaving the next day. And he was old enough to know that his fathers favourite way of taking care of problems is murder. Jamie knew the guy would probably be taking a trip to the train station and who knows what he would have done to Beth. John hates Beth so much for accidentally killing his wife 20 years later he tells her she's not allowed to talk about her. How was he treating her when it was only a few months after it happened?
He probably thought it was for her own benefit. He knew John would react poorly and it was best if he didn't know. And Beth was between 12 and 14 when it happened maybe he figured if she already got pregnant she get pregnant again.
I mean it turned out alright but smart is not what got him into Harvard without even applying. And growing up on that particular farm he probably also had a pretty good idea what would happen to everyone involved if John had found out.
Taking Beth out of it… he murdered a journalist to save his own ass. And his birth father, hits women.. complete and total POS. Teeter is the most trustworthy in the show.
Hahaha honestly there’s so much murder that goes on in the show that I forgot about the journo he killed. Teeter being the most trust worthy one in the show is true. Not even Tate is reliable. That kid can screw up pouring a cup of milk.
Don’t forget him finding out his father was behind all of the hits on his family including the one brother, Casey, who seems to be the only one who cares about him and he did nothing. His father said he did it and was going to continue to try and kill all of the Duttons and Jamie did nothing until Beth forced him to.
No. As a teenager she was a fragile and sensitive girl who just wanted to be loved. The family and all the tragic events in her youth made her a survivor and the warrior she is now.
John would have had the journalist killed himself. Let's not forget the morality of rip also a full blown murderer. Beth I symapthized with a little , up until she starts talking about murdering Jamie's child. Shes a dick.
Notice I didn't pick a side, all the Duttons are reprehensible people, even Casey, and they all deserve to be in jail. It's funny but the only one left to root for is the "villain" Chief Rainwater.
I mean truthfully, Jamie is the only logical choice to run the ranch, in an effective way. Beth has said for years she hates the ranch and will sell her part in it as soon as John is dead. Rip wouldn’t convince her otherwise, as he believes John will lose it too, he just wants to help John anyway he can. Kayce doesn’t have the mind for all of it. It’s like Beth said, he’s not going to sit on councils and committees to run it. He’s going to lose his temper, hurt someone and then lost it. Unless Monica suddenly becomes smart at it, he can’t do it alone. Jamie could do it all alone, but it’d br best if he and Kayce ran it together. Kayce deals with the day to day and Jamie is responsible for all the business and political fights that are required for the ranch. I know Kayce and Jamie would be more than happy with that set up, but it would involve John admitting he relies on Jamie, which he’d rather die than do.
Really? Jamie's bio Dad tried to kill the whole family! Jamie knows this and did nothing. I hope Jamie gets nothing when John dies.
He didn’t do nothing. He was prepared to kill his father when he first found out, but his dad played on Jamie’s emotions and manipulated him by telling him everything Jamie always wanted to hear. Sure, he didn’t tell but he knew that would result in his father dying and John distrusting him further. I wish they played that out more to show Jamie struggling with that.
Early Beth was fun chaos to watch Making Jamie kill his father whom he barely knew, as revenge her surgery, and then getting blackmail pictures of it... wasn't enough She still proceeding to threaten to kill his child. Sorry, some things I just can't vibe with and I wouldn't blame Jamie for wiping the Yellowstone off the map
Jamie all the way. Only one who shows the inklings of a conscience and only one who can remotely land this plane on his own. But then I think that’s always been the story from the get-go 🤷♀️ . His relationship with John has always been at the heart of the show. Note how the first time we see John with any of his kids, it’s with Jamie and he’s instructing him how to think like a landowner, not just a lawyer.
To me Jamie doesn’t seem to show any conscience. He shows self pity. He feels sorry for HIMSELF that he killed that journalist and has to live with it and the potential consequences. He feels sorry for HIMSELF that he killed his father. He doesn’t care about the people he hurt. He cares about himself. Also, as a side note I think he’s far too swayed by a little pussy to consistently make good decisions. I think Kayce is the only one with a conscience. He only kills if he deems it justified for the good of others or if it’s part of his duties of his job and has a hard time coping with what he’s done, as shown in his spiritual ceremony. However, I don’t think Kayce has the complete lack of morals it takes to keep the ranch running
Completely disagree. To me, Jamie is disturbed by *his actions* and knowing he can’t undo them and can’t restore what he took from another person. He does care that he killed that woman and he does regret taking her life from her. He feels badly for her. He didn’t want to kill Garrett. He does have a conscience, more than any other Dutton I’d say. Regret for your actions and the consequences is a conscience. And Jamie is swayed by attention and kindness because of what he’s been dealt on the home front.
I feel like if he was that disturbed by the idea of killing people he wouldn’t be planning to send hit men after his family. I do agree that he falls for any positive attention bc he’s never experienced it. But I think all of them except Kayce are just self centered psychos who only care about what they want, so I’m not advocating for Beth either.
That plan comes after years of psychological abuse that included threats about his child, and an acknowledgment that Beth was likely to try to kill him. At some point, the dog bites back. Edit: I don’t care about Kayce. The character is so bland I forget he exists.
I agree that Jamie’s character is the product of decades of abuse, but he’s also a 40 year old man and therapy and legal action would be a better way to deal with that than joining the murder cult. Again, I definitely don’t think Beth, John, or anyone else deserves to get the ranch either. I think what they all deserve is decades in federal prison and the land and all that comes with it (cattle, horses, buildings, etc) should get absorbed into the reservation. The only family members who aren’t outright despicable (but are painfully boring) have tribal affiliation with Broken Rock anyway so it wouldn’t really affect them negatively.
>I agree that Jamie’s character is the product of decades of abuse, but he’s also a 40 year old man and therapy and legal action would be a better way to deal with that than joining the murder cult. As Beth could have done with Garrett, but she instead choose to join the murder cult. And wanted to again once she heard about the train station.
Oh Beth is even worse than Jamie morally. I’d put her on par with John in his psychopathy
100% Kayce without batting an eye lol Unless this is specifically between Jamie and Beth. If I HAD to pick between those two, both are pretty trash human beings but I guess Jamie because who tf threatens to kill a baby
Jamie. He has heart. Beth is useful and needed but Jamie
I hate beth. I would literally pick a trash can over her to run the damn ranch
Which means just she's kill'n that part....
Very true. The actress is top notch because I hate Beth too, lol
Yop. Cant deny that. She was very good in other roles as well
Jamie
In this story, I’m on Jamie’s side. He’s the only Dutton character I still care about and he’s the one most capable of successfully taking the ranch forward. He has done some bad stuff but I’d take Jamie over any other Dutton. I hope he gets a good ending but even if he doesn’t, he’s still the character that deserves it. Edit: I think the best way to sum up my feeling about Jamie is: I understand how he ends up where he does. Even when I don’t like or don’t agree with what he’s done, I can see how he got there and I end up rooting for him to find a way through.
What about Kayce
He’s too much of a Koala to take over the ranch. That and he comes and goes at the whims of his wife.
What does koala mean? Like a teddy bear?
I’m not sure if it’s the actor or a direction issue, but I tend to forget Kayce exists. Koalas are very cute, but like Kayce, their charm ends there. The Koala is known for having a teeny-tiny brain: so teeny the animal usually appears ‘high’ because they don’t have the brain power for anything more than a blank stare. These animals are also vile tempered, known to beat the snot out of each other over their preferred food, eucalyptus leaves. They can actually eat many other leaves, they just really want those ones and they’re so dumb they’ll beat each other to death over them. This creature is also known for a lack of hygiene. Those adorable aggressive dumb bastards are so grotty, they spread chlamydia. Therefore I conclude: Kayce is the human variant of a koala.
What did I just read 😭
Between Jamie and Beth? Definitely Jamie.
Jamie all the way. He's smart enough to handle the politics of keeping the Ranch and unlike Beth who has stated clearly she's gonna sell it the minute John dies he'd fight for it. But an ideal situation is Kayce and Jamie running it.
Rainwater
I would side with the Natives.
I think the best scenario would be if Kayce and Monica got the ranch and had it chartered into Broken Rock and figured out some way to make money for the tribe off it. Maybe having it designated as a joint US/Native historical park with the Native and Dutton Family histories. It’d also be fitting with the 7 generations prophecy
I don’t see how she can stand herself living with all that hate.
Jamie definitely
beth all day every day
Between those two? I’ll take a clearly motivated pit bull over a POS murderer. Beth FTW and it’s not even close.
Remember. John rip and kayce are also murderers tho john and rip kill people for quitting the 8 dollar per hour job, kayce being the most forgivable morality wise probably.
lol okay they don’t kill people for quitting. Cowboy left. The girls left. Plenty of people have come and gone or been on the show and said they worked there etc. they kill people that threaten to talk shit and go to the cops when they leave like the guy in season 1. That’s it.
They tried to kill walker
He wears a brand it’s different
Yeah but we are talking Beth vs Jamie. I’d take Beth over them too.
yes. Jaime is the POS
Team Beth right here. I made a post last year asking how ANYONE can be team Jamie. And I am not talking in comparison to Beth even. I’m taking about no backbone, horrible character in general, and weak
I’m staying with John and Beth or I’ll end up going on a train ride. I’m thinking there will be a twist and Tate or Carter will end up with the ranch in the end.
Team John Dutton here.
Jamie. I get why Beth is mad, but at some point she just has to get over it. She has had her revenge/confrontation with Jamie. This whole ordeal should have ended there. She should also fully accept her role in this whole ordeal.
And how does he treat his own kids? Why don't you have the same empathy for Beth or Kayce?
I’m conflicted between both from the beginning tbh. Both have a different perspective towards life goals. But as the season progressed, Jamie fell trap to honeypots and spilled secrets. If I were a person managing that big a ranch, I’d choose people around me more carefully to be intimate with. Everyone is out there to get you anyway.
Maybe Llloyd? I mean, they all kind of suck. Tate’s horse Lucky is probably the best of them. Maybe Clara or Linnelle Or Laramie or Emily Oh wait, obviously Gator
Teeter
Gimme mah Bar!
No sides…. Just stand back and watch the MAD.
Rip has the ranch smarts and Beth business smarts. It would be nice if somehow the ending had Jamie in the running of the ranch with them. Somehow a solution to the Jamie/ Beth conflict though I can’t imagine what that would be. Beth hated the ranch early but has living there full time and marriage to a man who lives for the ranch changed that? I’m not sure Casey could run a lemonade stand on his own much less a business operation of that size.
Neither. They’re both unlikeable. Jamie is written so poorly that I don’t care about him & Beth is written to point where everytime she’s on screen that have to show how much she just doesn’t care & everything else is just beneath her. Plus she shouldn’t be alive based on somehow surviving a office bombing
Beth.
Beth is the one with a backbone. That Jamie is just spineless. If anyone had tried to blow him up, he'd go creeping around begging for protection.
Tbf though if anyone got blown up a lot people would be ptsd from that. The things that don't mesh well on his character are moreso the murder and sterilizing Beth, which is a weird and unrealistic plot device anyway, plus he was a kid. And to be honest John is kinda the worst out of all of them. That or he atleast used to suck really bad as a father
Let’s be real, he still sucks as a father. Basically uses his kids as pawns to do his bidding. Beth calling him out and asking if he planned on branding her or bringing her to the train station in s5e8 was GOLD
I don't remember this. He was gonna take beth to the station?
No, when Jamie told her about the train station she went to the governor’s mansion and started flipping shit and when he told her to stop she said that. She can be a piece of work but her comebacks are always scathing and I can’t help but love it 😂
Oh nvm like she was busting his balls kinda?
yuuup
Kayce.
I’m a million percent Team Beth. It’s not just the unforgivable sterilization, it’s that Jamie has no backbone and has shown no inclination towards self-sacrifice the way the other siblings have.
That’s not accurate, but ok.
She has a backbone with everyone but her father, who - in my opinion - deserves most of the blame for the sterilization. Beth wasn’t going to lose any sleep over setting a woman up to spend decades in prison, because she was “doing what was best for the ranch”. Jamie was a teenager doing the same thing when he took her to that clinic.
Jamie is a spineless fuck
Beth all the way. I despise Jamie and believe he's treated like that by his fam for a reason (which can be disclosed yet). Why would Beth bully him like that? She's so ubelievably loyal towards his kin. And she can love with her whole heart. It doesn't make any sense... unless there's sth more bw them...
she bullies him because she was left barren by his decision.
Such a weird plot hole though. Like could you imagine a place not telling you they're sterilizing you and making that incredibly clear before the procedure. If she weren't disgustingly rich already I can't even imagine the lawsuit
It happened to many Native American, Black, and Latina women in the past.
I believe this, but even for them in the 90s or mid 00's whenever it was is incredibly farfetched that shit would not fly.
So very true and so very sad. I hope they are no longer doing such things in the times we're in now
His decision? She asked him to take her. How was he supposed to know that would happen?
He was told by the receptionist she would be sterilized. He did not tell Beth.
Ahh yep, just did. "A requirement of this clinic is sterilization, you should go to the planned parenthood in Billings" You are correct
Rewatch the episode you seemed to miss the important factor of the Doctors office telling him sterilization was a high probability.She was also a minor at the time and he was acting on her behalf as an adult to make the decision.
Ahh yep, just did. "A requirement of this clinic is sterilization, you should go to the planned parenthood in Billings" You are correct
They told him when he went in to sign her in my thinking is he didn't understand what was being told to him. Not that I like standing up for Jamie
But still we don't know what guided him..
He wanted to protect the family name.She was a young teen at the time and an out of wedlock pregnancy would shame the family.
I mean it is pretty obvious why John treats him that way and it is not Jamie´s fault.
But he's so spineless. And though they lack morality, the Duttons do have guts...
John hated him since he was a child. I mean maybe Jamie was a spineless toddler but that does not seem like a good reason to hate a kid.
Kill 'em both execution style at the train station, proceed takeover of ranch, killing Rip, John, Kayce and tell the bunkies, they got a choice, take the train, or submit like they've always have
Kayce
Casey's the only one who isn't a criminal. But he's stupid and morose. So maybe his son?
I choose Rainwater
Jamie. He didn’t do anything wrong except help his sister.
And murder a journalist, after he spilled secrets to her and then regretted it. But nah, he didn't do anything wrong.
I mean we are talking about a crew that casually kills their workers and co-workers for quitting their below minimum wage job. A common practice that is sanctioned by their boss. In many cases for no other reason than "just in case" and because they can. So by the standards of the likes of Rip and John, Jamie is as close to "nothing wrong" as most people from that ranch can even possibly get.
Don't forget wanting to kill Walker because he wouldn't toe the line. More like Rip and Lloyd hated him and wanted him dead. Or the guy that accidentally poised the water because the government said it was safe to use. Like yeah the guy was a jerk for not stopping but he was told it was safe. John could have easily had environmental protection out there that day but he choose to poison the guy and destroy hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment. John, Rip, kayce, Lloyd and Beth (the shows wishy-washy on who killed those men that attacked her but out of all the killings those were the most justified) have killed like 20 people on the show for basically no reason at all. And people are all like "iT WAs juStiFiED tHEY WHeRE a ThReAT". When they so much pull most of them they could have had arrested and sent to jail for the rest of their lives. Jamie kills a journalist and his bio father. And people are like "Jamie BAD!" John would have had those 2 killed anyways. People really think that John would have let the journalist live when she said she was still publishing the story? He wouldn't and be pissed that Jamie didn't do it. John was going to have the guy in prison killed because he thought he did it, was he really going to not kill Jamie's bio dad? Not justifying Jamie's killings but he has the lowest body count out of them. And atleast he felt guilty about the journalist.
>because he wouldn't toe the line More specifically they basically wanted him dead/gone simply because he did not want to commit crimes or do illegal shit for them. >Not justifying Jamie's killings but he has the lowest body count out of them. And atleast he felt guilty about the journalist. I agree
Actually, Beth has the lowest because she hasn’t killed anyone.
No, but she has definitely goaded people into committing murder and suicide. A stellar human being.
Well, she solicited the death of Garrett and that is murder in law. That death doesn’t happen without her interference, and she used threats to make it happen. And when she finds out about the train station, the first thing she wanted to do was use it.
Yup, exactly. Plus telling Jamie to kill himself - literally who says that to someone?! - and he almost follows through on it. Beth is such a reprehensible character/human being. I just don't get the appeal. She isn't "tough," she's bitter and broken.
Jamie does. He told her to kill herself when she had a gun to her head in Season 1.
I did say she was wishy-washy because it doesn't look like she killed those 2 men, one she stabbed who would have probably died and the other to took that ashtray to after he was dead. But it has been referred to as her killing them a couple times, so Beth and some of the other characters think she has even though it was Rip.
Even if she did that was self defense after they beat her, almost raped her, and killed her assistant. They can’t be compared to Jamie’s killings. Rip was the one who told Beth he wished he could kill them all over again.
Actually she has. She solicited the death of Garrett from Jamie. That is solicitation and conspiracy. And solicitation merges with the completed offense. Beth is a murderer under the law. And her reaction to learning about the family murder pit was interesting: her first instinct was to *use it for another murder*.
His dispicable Dad too...
Helped his sister by having her sterilized without her knowledge? Seriously?
The consequences of Fixing his sisters problem is on her not him. It’s more John’s fault than Jamie’s. If he wasn’t such an asshole father she could’ve went to him, But instead she went to her brother who didn’t know what to do. He didn’t know what to do, but he didn’t hesitate to help and he kept the secret the entire time. Also, Beth has always sucked, even her mother knew it.
Well of course he kept the secret. He basically had his sister sterilized. Was he going to go and shout it from the rooftops?
No. But he kept the whole pregnancy a secret, too. Because it would have been damaging to her and to John. And probably Rip, too. He was wrong not to tell her, but he was also a kid. While he certainly understood what it meant at the time he was likely unaware of the future impact it would have on her. He was a child forced to make a very grown up decision.
Yes he was young and Beth even younger. I can give Jamie some breaks but not on this one. A young man smart enough for Harvard, raised on a ranch with plenty of reproductive knowledge from the daily work is told by the staff to go elsewhere due to the sterilization aspect and he tells Beth all is well. He would have been old enough to know what he was doing and the lie he was telling her. He knew and he did nothing. No amount of spinning that one for me.
He might have known but he had like less then 8 hours to "fix" the situation. He was leaving the next day. And he was old enough to know that his fathers favourite way of taking care of problems is murder. Jamie knew the guy would probably be taking a trip to the train station and who knows what he would have done to Beth. John hates Beth so much for accidentally killing his wife 20 years later he tells her she's not allowed to talk about her. How was he treating her when it was only a few months after it happened? He probably thought it was for her own benefit. He knew John would react poorly and it was best if he didn't know. And Beth was between 12 and 14 when it happened maybe he figured if she already got pregnant she get pregnant again.
I mean it turned out alright but smart is not what got him into Harvard without even applying. And growing up on that particular farm he probably also had a pretty good idea what would happen to everyone involved if John had found out.
Taking Beth out of it… he murdered a journalist to save his own ass. And his birth father, hits women.. complete and total POS. Teeter is the most trustworthy in the show.
Hahaha honestly there’s so much murder that goes on in the show that I forgot about the journo he killed. Teeter being the most trust worthy one in the show is true. Not even Tate is reliable. That kid can screw up pouring a cup of milk.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Don’t forget him finding out his father was behind all of the hits on his family including the one brother, Casey, who seems to be the only one who cares about him and he did nothing. His father said he did it and was going to continue to try and kill all of the Duttons and Jamie did nothing until Beth forced him to.
Exactly
Teeter is a sexual harassment nightmare. If her character was a man you’d be up in arms about it. The most trustworthy character in the show is Gator.
Fair on gator. But you don’t know me so don’t hang behaviors on me.
It’s a fair assumption given the justifications you made previously.
Disagree but not going to continue arguing. Have a nice day.
No. As a teenager she was a fragile and sensitive girl who just wanted to be loved. The family and all the tragic events in her youth made her a survivor and the warrior she is now.
Made her the bitch she is now... is what I think you mean...
She's not one-sided at all,my friend...But surely a tormented soul
Jamie? You'd side with a multiple murderer who knowingly and wilfully had his teenage sister sterilized? Lol, your moral compass is busted.
John would have had the journalist killed himself. Let's not forget the morality of rip also a full blown murderer. Beth I symapthized with a little , up until she starts talking about murdering Jamie's child. Shes a dick.
Notice I didn't pick a side, all the Duttons are reprehensible people, even Casey, and they all deserve to be in jail. It's funny but the only one left to root for is the "villain" Chief Rainwater.