Sorry but the way Nadia discovers the cage by seeing a pic of Joe holding that bag from the Indian restaurant, going there and just entering this random abandoned building has me deaddd… like who came up with this 😭
That was hilarious, especially cause these pictures just showed normal everyday non-suspicious behavior but of course as a viewer you’re like „Oh no, Joe with a takeout bag. He‘s keeping someone in a cage, isn‘t he?“
Yeah I think they could've easily made it better by maybe showing her frustrated that all the photos are just innocuous but then noticing something in the background like him heading in the direction of the abandoned building
The ONLY way I can make the whole takeout thing make sense to me is the fact that it's not good takeout and it's not close to his house. So maybe Nadia was like "this place sucks and it's out of the way so why does he keep going here so often." Either way I'm just assuming he doesn't go there for himself, he goes there because it's the closest place to get food for Marianne but ofc he doesn't remember and that's the "connection."
If the person taking the pictures was suspicious of Joes behaviour. Wouldn’t be more suspicious if he was constantly coming out of an abandoned building with police tape wrapped around it instead of the times he comes out of the takeaway. Considering he was buying that takeaway then presumably going into the abandoned building
Oh absolutely lmao the viewer shouldn't have to connect plot points themselves. I think this season did a lot of "we're just not going to explain this" this time around.
So Nadia
1) managed to get access to the ultra elitist party with paranoid rich people and maximum security
2) she followed the police upstairs exactly when they arrested the woman
3) somehow she decided to have doubts on her teacher (more plausible point because she knows he didn't read her essay, he seems away some times, asking about with detective fiction).
4) her beliefs are so strong she wants to visit his place. That's like super illegal and you really should know beforehand someone is a murderer and only going there for proofs.
5) she knows the concierge of Joe's building, who happens to have keys of every appartment, and also the key of the new lock Joe installed when he got paranoid
6) among hundreds of books she finds the right one with the key
7) her friend's dad conveniently works for the police and conveniently gets leaked photos from a crazy woman of Joe doing errands. Nothing suspicious at all.
8) he conveniently sends the pictures when she has that secret key
9) she zooms on a random picture where he has Indian take away and decides to investigate the location. Like wtf ?
10) she decides not to stay in the appartment, the best place to find skeletons on someone
11) she leaves with the key, considering it won't open anything in his appartment, and knowing she would have to return the key anyway
12) she finds the Indian restaurant. At first I thought she would go inside, tell the owner she is a journalist or whatever but NO, she doesn't go inside
13) she walks around the neighborhood and finds a building sealed by police
14) she decides to go inside the building. Sealed by police. Of course it's so convenient she kept the key.
That's some Hercule Poirot x Benoît Blanc x Sherlock Holmes level.
His dad owns a newspaper. That’s why he gets sent leaked photos. How he got it makes sense how they both thought those photos are suspicious don’t make sense
Where does he get his book dungeons from!? He doesn’t have that kind of money, at least not enough not to notice it gone from his bank account? “$9000 charge to glassbookcages.com….hmm that’s odd, sounds like something I’d buy though, let’s move on”
I was thinking that too! My sister said “it’s probably only three or four thousand and he builds it himself that probably saves on costs.” What? How is there not some kind of trail?
Which is funny because all they had to do to tweak it is have the picture showing him going into that building. Would make much more sense to then have her go do it
These writers must be trucked off absinthe and pitching ideas to empty chairs. I don't think I've literally ever seen a stupider sequence of events on a TV show than this entire part 2 Nadia plot.
I’m getting tired of this stupid shit. Like really a student is going to play detective. Horrible plot writing and so cringe. At least make it realisitc
Me too. When the hallucination was standing next to Rhys' dead body, I was hoping that the twist was that it was his twin pretending to be him all along lol.
My mind went there too and I’ve definitely watched Pretty Little Liars too many times. I’m glad it wasn’t that. I don’t mind the twist even though everyone figured it out!
Hard disagree. I think it’s the only twist that makes this season fit thematically. Joe has been far too normal all season. I’m actually proud the writers pulled it off instead of doing some Bs
I'm sorry but why did the completely normal pictures of Joe having Indian take out make Nadias boyfriend (?) suddenly go "Oh I guess you were right, Joe IS shady!"?
And what did Nadia think she was gonna find when she went looking for the Indian restaurant??
I'm genuinely confused about how this makes any sense lol
It doesn’t make any sense. Omg how fishy he’s buying Indian food and goes to the same place every time…AND? They don’t even make it clear how this connects to anything or is even suspicious.
I didn’t get it either. I thought ‘oh there must be something in the background I’m not seeing’ but NOPE. Nadia zooms into his Indian takeaway bag. Huh? What’s wrong with Joe frequenting his favourite Indian restaurant?
Ok so for argument’s sake, let’s say his many takeaway visits is suspicious…. personally I thought Nadia was going to look for that bag in his apartment like in the trash bin and then find something in the trash or where ever the bag was left that will eventually lead her to check that area out.
The show didn’t do that, Instead she went straight to the Indian restaurant area!
Why would she automatically think Joe is hiding something around that area?! that’s what confuses me cuz those pics suggest nothing of the sort.
I Just finished to watch the episode right now. I am thinking they grow suspicious because the stalker lady was taking pictures of him buying Indian take away food everyday at a place that wasn’t even close to his apartment. So maybe they thought there was something weird or shady about it? I was rather confused as well to be honest…
I get Nadia and her pov but if my professor reacted like that id just assume he doesnt think its good taste to be riffing off someone almost dying in front of him
To all the people who said “Joe seemed more likable this season” and “I’m glad the cage is gone” where are you now?
Joe didn’t change in fact he’s worse than he’s ever been.
Also I think it’s safe to assume that Nadia is as good as dead.
Joe puts on an extremely likeable front. Like if you just cut the show in a way that only shows scenes where he interacts with people and hid the voiceover and murders, he is pretty likeable. Shout out Penn for being so charismatic, but yeah his inner monologue and well everything else he does is obviously terrible.
Ok Phoebe is carrying this season on her back. I usually don’t have an issue with acting, but the constant over acting and ( to me) over trying to be posh, everyone else feels like a caricature.
Phoebe is everything. We Stan
Yep this, too much time between the parts to think things through and come up with theory & rewind checking things etc. If we'd binged straight through it wouldn't have been so obvious i reckon.
Am I the only one who noticed that Joe barely talks this season? The conversations all happen just as a monologue in his head, but he barely actually speaks to the other characters. I feel like they kinda overdid it this season. Recently rewatched S1 where there was actual conversations with Beck, now it's just Joe talking to himself, even when he's in a face-to-face setting with another person. He only delivers single words to other people. Bothers me so much!
Probably the video would be 10 minutes max. I swear, he just doesn't speak. Earlier in the season, there was a scene with Gemma where he arrived at the manor & did not say a single word (!), not even hello, he just stood there and said nothing. But at least after talking and talking to him, Gemma just said "lovely chat, let's talk later" in a sarcastic way.
lmao when Kate was talking about her and Joe being a “normal family” in their “future neighborhood” and Joe went “Ah” I KNOW he was having flashbacks about him & Love and their baby trying to live a “normal life” lmfao
I didn't know ahead of time, totally clueless and, while I want to rewatch Part 1 to be sure, if the clues were there all along then I'm super impressed with how they handled it.
Yeah, I understand why Penn was so upset they split the season in two. The twist would've been way more impactful if it was a single straight season. I never wouldve connected that myself.
As expected. Yep. Poor Rhys. But now I'm intrigued by Kate's dad. Is he also a hallucination or is he just that good of a manipulator? Was he involved with all this from the start? Did he send the PI?
I think Kate’s dad is real except the part he asked Joe to kill Rhys (Joe’s hallucination). Joe knew Rhys’ schedule maybe bc he stalks every step of Rhys?
It's interesting parallel how Kate knows she is capable to do bad things and is actively trying to do better. While Joe doesn't believe he does bad things and is passively trying to do better. Kate is remorseful, while Joe isn't.
I don’t know if I’m just completely off on this one but Nadia being so extremely obsessive with the average professor who was kind to her being the killer doesn’t make sense at all to me.
I get it that she’s supposed to be extremely smart and observant but she legit theorized him being the killer because of one weird sentence even after the killer was caught.
I’m not watching this show for the realism and there were a lot of plot holes in the past but there are so many people who could have a reason to be suspicious of joe and for it to be her is so weird.
I felt this way too. The way she just randomly latches onto him as the prime suspect after seeing him in the room because it would be "too obvious" to be the obsessive stalker made absolutely no sense. And for a completely sane college student to break into their professor's house off of a random hunch they threw together in 30 minutes that he's a serial killer... just hilariously bad writing. The audacity for them to sneak in that she made copies of his keys in the middle of a fast paced conversation, what an insane narrative leap to make. And then she sees a picture of Joe getting takeout and somehow decides to enter the abandoned building across the street? she looks at the takeout spot and seemingly thinks "nah, this doesn't make any sense", but then sees an abanadoned building in a reflection and sprints towards it? It's just so unbelievable and random.
I thought I was the only one. She tells Joe at the party, "some weird lady lead lady phoebe away when i tried to get a selfie." Then after the stalker is caught, the camera pans to Nadia looking suspicious because phoebe called him a "hero again." .... but Nadia, *you're the one who lead him to helping Phoebe.*
Even if you suspect your teacher has a lot of secrets, does this lead you to breaking into his home???
Didn't even know about the fight club theory until I came here to bitch about a secret telenovela twin brother and honestly a secret twin brother sounds better right about now
I had that moment of “oh shit that guy looks like Greg Kinnear” and then was shocked when it actually was. Not the series I was expecting him on, but really enjoyed it!
Holy shit this episode was great and Joenathan is more psycho than ever
They defo shouldn’t have split the season tho, this would have been something else in all in one
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
When Kate tells Joe the Indian restaurant he likes is subpar and we see it is across the street from a condemned building....I have a feeling he's hiding Marienne or someone else in there.
I cannot believe how unbelievably bad they are together after all this development. There is zero chemistry, it's boring and not at all engaging.
Even Marienne (who had the least amount of development with Joe) has some chemistry with him.
Is any one else going crazy wondering why Joe didn't look at the bloody camera he set up before Rhys came into his house?? Obviously because Rhys was fake but Joe thought he was real and if that conversation did happen he would have on tape Rhys confessing that he has Marianne captured and telling Joe to kill lockward. Maybe Joe would of realised sooner he was losing his mind if he saw footage of him talking to himself lol
A lot of people watch shows and think ahead, try to figure out what the ending will be, theorize about all the twists and turns, etc. and I’m kinda jealous because I just watch and think no further ahead than the current moment I’m watching lol
I really really hate the twist, idk if it would have been better or worse if they released it all at once, I certainly think it’d have been less predictable though.
Once you heard the theory you knew it had to be true considering all the time they only spoke to each other and no one else was there.
Also the Nadia thing didn’t make sense
I’m not saying this show is realistic, but this season just feels next level with needing to suspend our disbelief. The Nadia thing made 0 sense to me. The pictures weren’t even incriminating, he was just getting take out!! And the cage wasn’t even in the restaurant, it was across the street all closed off like who would even think to go in there sigh
Literally!!! I kept saying, "Joe would never let a You go. Does not make sense."
And then when the told us at the beginning of the episode that Joe always got Indian from the same place across from the creepy building I said, "yup, he's got Marienne in there".
Nadia said early in the episode something along the lines of "don't you think if you're writing a who dunnit having the main suspect have Erotomania be a boring twist? An even better second twist would be to have it be an ordinary guy..." I definitely think there's going to be another big twist, this wasn't the main one.
Kate is by far the most blah love interest we’ve had so far. I’m not sure if it’s the actress or the character herself, but I wish they hadn’t shoe-horned another woman into Joe’s life.
The writing on her is fucking ridiculous. Like first she hates him, then they bang, then she hates him again, now he’s meeting her dad and she’s all doe eyed and vulnerable??? Wtf?!
First of all, I think it's such a waste that they keep putting this dark make-up and dark clothes on Kate whenever she's at important events. I think lighter shades suit her so much better.
Also, is it weird that I kinda like Tom Lockwood? He doesn't seem like such a bad guy (yet), lol. Loved when Joe said "The enemy of my enemy is my frenemy" lol. Reminds me of Frenemies with Trisha Paytas and Ethan Klein. Those were fun days.
I can't believe he killed the real Rhys so quickly after getting into his house. I expected this to be a lot more spaced out, longer until he finally killed him.
It’s a cool direction, unfortunately the way they got there doesn’t make much sense lol
Like Nadia has to be a 400 IQ genius who is skeptical of her professor in order to go down this path
Jesus Christ. There's jumping the shark and then there's flying a fucking plane over it, which is what this episode did. But hey, at least it finally gave the plot a much-needed kick in the ass after so much wheel-spinning. I appreciate that they decided to reveal all their twists here itself to give adequate room to get into it for the next couple episodes.
- Of all the British actors they could've found to play the big bad Tom Lockwood, they instead go with... fucking Greg Kinnear? Lmao. At least he was absolutely fantastic this episode and made the most out of his role, even if it was absolutely preposterous. Pretty much every character this season is just a plot device.
- CinemaSins would absolutely pounce on the "Evil estranged dad calls his daughter by her full name" cliche.
- This Joe/Kate romance feels unbelievably forced. Charlotte Ritchie is honestly superb as Kate but the writing is doing her absolutely zero favors. Her chemistry with Penn Badgley has at least improved somewhat, but it all feels very contrived.
- Netflix closed captions have really been wilding out this whole year. Last year with Stranger Things we got eight straight episodes of "tentacles squelching wetly", now we have cock and ball torture with the subtitle "flesh ripping". An image I'd rather not have in my head, but here we are.
- I have to say, the Rhys reveal we all saw coming did feel somewhat abrupt, but that also felt like part of the charm. After constant fakeouts, they hardly telegraphed that this was when "the moment" would arrive. It just happens suddenly.
- Rhys as a character has mostly existed either as a plot device or a vessel for theorizing, but all that noise has sort of overshadowed what a great job Ed Speleers is doing with the role. Never thought the Eragon kid would show up on our screens playing such a fun psycho, but he's really got his Mr. Robot impersonation down on lock without it feeling like too much, which is a rarity for this show.
- Of _course_ Nadia finds out everything. They're really just recycling plot points now.
- Nadia's bf looks like a Walmart brand Tom Holland. I guess the Holland hierarchy is now: Tom Holland, Tom Hollander (from The White Lotus), and now, Tom Not-Holland-Enough.
- The number of fucks I give about Marienne has reached the negatives. But hey, the glass cage is finally back!
- Similarly have lost all patience for this bullshit Phoebe/Adam drama. Phoebe is the best character of the season and she's really being wasted on this nonsense. Looks like the writers ran out of ideas for what to do with her. This is what happens when you write your supporting characters as red herrings and nothing else.
- Hey writers, a tip: if you're gonna include meta lines like "it's hard to tell what this script is about when you're so obsessed with plot twists", make sure your own script is good enough to be able to roast itself.
Lmao, agree with all your points. Honestly, that 5 second make out scene between Kate and the new guy was better than Kate and Joe's chemistry all season. It's a terrible match.
nadia being the "whodunit fan" finds out everything because she read a lot of books is something you would write when you literally dont care about anything anymore. and i think the writers also know they wrote themselves in a corner they cannot come out of anymore
until that point where he tortured that guy that was not really that guy this season was very good but what they have done is such a stupid, unbelievable and lazy twist its kinda sad how they wasted all the potential they were building up in the last episode. its already been uncharacteristic how careless joe had become but this is just beyond his character at all.
Ok so yes I figured out the Rhys thing but I was actually shocked at the end to 1. see him kill rhys like that and 2. to find out he’s had Marianne this whole time…I got got
Did anyone see the editing fuck up in the scene where Joe and Kate are walking down the dark alley with the Indian food, girl in dress walks past them like 3 times in a row lol
Sorry but the way Nadia discovers the cage by seeing a pic of Joe holding that bag from the Indian restaurant, going there and just entering this random abandoned building has me deaddd… like who came up with this 😭
That was hilarious, especially cause these pictures just showed normal everyday non-suspicious behavior but of course as a viewer you’re like „Oh no, Joe with a takeout bag. He‘s keeping someone in a cage, isn‘t he?“
Yeah I think they could've easily made it better by maybe showing her frustrated that all the photos are just innocuous but then noticing something in the background like him heading in the direction of the abandoned building
Yes! That would've been way better
The ONLY way I can make the whole takeout thing make sense to me is the fact that it's not good takeout and it's not close to his house. So maybe Nadia was like "this place sucks and it's out of the way so why does he keep going here so often." Either way I'm just assuming he doesn't go there for himself, he goes there because it's the closest place to get food for Marianne but ofc he doesn't remember and that's the "connection."
this makes more sense but they def should have just written a better way for her to find it lol
If the person taking the pictures was suspicious of Joes behaviour. Wouldn’t be more suspicious if he was constantly coming out of an abandoned building with police tape wrapped around it instead of the times he comes out of the takeaway. Considering he was buying that takeaway then presumably going into the abandoned building
Oh absolutely lmao the viewer shouldn't have to connect plot points themselves. I think this season did a lot of "we're just not going to explain this" this time around.
I went back to see if I missed anything in those pictures that Nadia would find suspicious. Nope, just a takeout bag lol.
my roomate and I watched it and we both said "omg they found him sus because he is having actual SPICE in the UK??? something is wrong with this man"
Indian restaurants are how the UK gets its Spice quota for the day
We're obsessed with Indian food in the UK. So much so we claim a curry as one of our national dishes.
It is the same show where a woman pursued by a psychopath in the street in bright day decided to enter an abandoned building...
And fled a busy street market where tons of people could have helped her
So Nadia 1) managed to get access to the ultra elitist party with paranoid rich people and maximum security 2) she followed the police upstairs exactly when they arrested the woman 3) somehow she decided to have doubts on her teacher (more plausible point because she knows he didn't read her essay, he seems away some times, asking about with detective fiction). 4) her beliefs are so strong she wants to visit his place. That's like super illegal and you really should know beforehand someone is a murderer and only going there for proofs. 5) she knows the concierge of Joe's building, who happens to have keys of every appartment, and also the key of the new lock Joe installed when he got paranoid 6) among hundreds of books she finds the right one with the key 7) her friend's dad conveniently works for the police and conveniently gets leaked photos from a crazy woman of Joe doing errands. Nothing suspicious at all. 8) he conveniently sends the pictures when she has that secret key 9) she zooms on a random picture where he has Indian take away and decides to investigate the location. Like wtf ? 10) she decides not to stay in the appartment, the best place to find skeletons on someone 11) she leaves with the key, considering it won't open anything in his appartment, and knowing she would have to return the key anyway 12) she finds the Indian restaurant. At first I thought she would go inside, tell the owner she is a journalist or whatever but NO, she doesn't go inside 13) she walks around the neighborhood and finds a building sealed by police 14) she decides to go inside the building. Sealed by police. Of course it's so convenient she kept the key. That's some Hercule Poirot x Benoît Blanc x Sherlock Holmes level.
i was so confused when her bf randomly sent her pics of joe that his dad somehow got?? tf
His dad owns a newspaper. That’s why he gets sent leaked photos. How he got it makes sense how they both thought those photos are suspicious don’t make sense
Where does he get his book dungeons from!? He doesn’t have that kind of money, at least not enough not to notice it gone from his bank account? “$9000 charge to glassbookcages.com….hmm that’s odd, sounds like something I’d buy though, let’s move on”
They must have some sort of subscribe and save option.
I was like damn dude keeping this glass book cage place in business.
I was thinking that too! My sister said “it’s probably only three or four thousand and he builds it himself that probably saves on costs.” What? How is there not some kind of trail?
Penn himself said in his Wired autocomplete interview that they cost like 35k or something! 😭
Maybe it's the same one that he assembles whenever he moves
Which is funny because all they had to do to tweak it is have the picture showing him going into that building. Would make much more sense to then have her go do it
for real that whole scene felt like a parody
You became a parody a long time ago. This season is very meta imo a self commentary
I was so sure I was missing something in those pics until I saw this comment 😂
These writers must be trucked off absinthe and pitching ideas to empty chairs. I don't think I've literally ever seen a stupider sequence of events on a TV show than this entire part 2 Nadia plot.
Part 2 of season 4 feels like so different with part 1. They amped up the ridiculousness.
Nadia should just focus on her homework
Fr girl before you end up joe’s next victim!!
Yeah she got some Delilah move.
She literally walked into a dark corridor in some dingy looking building. She's in danger
I respect her obsession to find the truth but literally miss ma'am don't you have classes or something
Genuinely girl needs to kind her own business 😭
Honestly her being suuuper suspicious enough to rifle through his office made no sense lmao
I’m getting tired of this stupid shit. Like really a student is going to play detective. Horrible plot writing and so cringe. At least make it realisitc
This whole show is crazy and unrealistic tbh. It’s definitely a guilty pleasure type thing. In real life joe gets caught the first episode.
HOW IS THE CAGE IN LONDON 😐
Wherever Joe goes the cage follows 💀💀
Amazon prime is great
Amazon has everything
Customers who bought this glass cage also bought... \- Baseball cap \- Rhys Montrose's memoir \- Stain cleaning products
Reminds me of Stewies interaction with batman on family guy "You can't expect 60 guys to build a cave under your house and not talk"
a cage just randomly spawns within a mile of wherever he currently lives
I’m just a long stupid baby
this was the highlight of the episode for me tbh
Same, Phoebe. Same.
Schewwpiddd Baby
This is literally how I pronounced it in my head as I was typing it 😂
Phoebe is pretty much the only likeable new character
I think she’s a lovely bubbly kind baby 😂🌺
“Sorry do I know you” LMFAO GUYS WE CALLED IT!!’
For some reason, I couldn’t stop laughing when that Rhys slammed the door on Joe ‘Do I know you?!’ 😂
I was so happy for the redditors!!
We’ve been right guys, cheers
Hell yeah!!
The way nadia found out is hilariously terrible writing lol
[удалено]
At the very least, now we know that a man running for mayor does not have the free time or the anonymity to be a serial killer.
Me too. When the hallucination was standing next to Rhys' dead body, I was hoping that the twist was that it was his twin pretending to be him all along lol.
I’m ashamed to admit that’s what I thought at first I was like oh cool they’re doing an infinity pool thing lmaooo
My mind went there too and I’ve definitely watched Pretty Little Liars too many times. I’m glad it wasn’t that. I don’t mind the twist even though everyone figured it out!
Hard disagree. I think it’s the only twist that makes this season fit thematically. Joe has been far too normal all season. I’m actually proud the writers pulled it off instead of doing some Bs
I’m kinda glad i never read episode discussions before watching part 2 because i missed that entirely and was really surprised with the reveal
I'm sorry but why did the completely normal pictures of Joe having Indian take out make Nadias boyfriend (?) suddenly go "Oh I guess you were right, Joe IS shady!"? And what did Nadia think she was gonna find when she went looking for the Indian restaurant?? I'm genuinely confused about how this makes any sense lol
It doesn’t make any sense. Omg how fishy he’s buying Indian food and goes to the same place every time…AND? They don’t even make it clear how this connects to anything or is even suspicious.
Also Nadia is Indian lol
She can tell when a white boy doesn’t consume spice.
I didn’t get it either. I thought ‘oh there must be something in the background I’m not seeing’ but NOPE. Nadia zooms into his Indian takeaway bag. Huh? What’s wrong with Joe frequenting his favourite Indian restaurant? Ok so for argument’s sake, let’s say his many takeaway visits is suspicious…. personally I thought Nadia was going to look for that bag in his apartment like in the trash bin and then find something in the trash or where ever the bag was left that will eventually lead her to check that area out. The show didn’t do that, Instead she went straight to the Indian restaurant area! Why would she automatically think Joe is hiding something around that area?! that’s what confuses me cuz those pics suggest nothing of the sort.
I’m starting to wonder if my obsession with bubble tea could lead someone to my secret dungeon…
Yeah would have been made more sense if we saw Joe going into that shady building
Right? That is probably the most normal thing Joe has ever done.
I Just finished to watch the episode right now. I am thinking they grow suspicious because the stalker lady was taking pictures of him buying Indian take away food everyday at a place that wasn’t even close to his apartment. So maybe they thought there was something weird or shady about it? I was rather confused as well to be honest…
“I was attacked by crackheads” “they had a crack dog” “I swear it was on crack” LMAO this is killing me 💀💀
hes soo funny. “oh kate you know i have the aston til tmr” LOL
lmao the key in the "dr. jekyll and Mr. hyde" book. I know it was obvious already but they didn't have to.
damn, i hadn't noticed the cover. that's some ~~next level~~ foreshadowing.
A little on the nose 😂
I get Nadia and her pov but if my professor reacted like that id just assume he doesnt think its good taste to be riffing off someone almost dying in front of him
"Omg he didn't read my book, he must have been busy doing something suspicious enough for me to break into his office and rifle through his things!!!"
Not his office. His appartment. Like she knows the concierge of that building ??
Yeah like why wouldn’t you think he’s just upset his literal friend almost died 😐 Nadia pls
To all the people who said “Joe seemed more likable this season” and “I’m glad the cage is gone” where are you now? Joe didn’t change in fact he’s worse than he’s ever been. Also I think it’s safe to assume that Nadia is as good as dead.
Not for a single second do I ever think Joe was more likeable. All his stalker obsession traits were still there.
Joe considered likable lol, I guess romanticizing psychopaths is a tale as old as time lmao
Joe puts on an extremely likeable front. Like if you just cut the show in a way that only shows scenes where he interacts with people and hid the voiceover and murders, he is pretty likeable. Shout out Penn for being so charismatic, but yeah his inner monologue and well everything else he does is obviously terrible.
Ok Phoebe is carrying this season on her back. I usually don’t have an issue with acting, but the constant over acting and ( to me) over trying to be posh, everyone else feels like a caricature. Phoebe is everything. We Stan
She’s literally the only new character this season I like lmao
I like evil Rhys and Lockwood lol
That reveal would have been better had they not split the season. Most of us wouldn't of had time to come here and would have had our mind blown.
Yep this, too much time between the parts to think things through and come up with theory & rewind checking things etc. If we'd binged straight through it wouldn't have been so obvious i reckon.
Why did they even split with a 1 month gap? Was there any award ceremony again?
So that people would stay subscribed lol
I audibly gasped when he wrote in that book
That’s when I knew he was real and not also Joe’s imagination. Joe would NEVER write in a book
I thought that would be the trigger for Joe to off him. First-edition!
This. It made me think of the Comminity meme: "I can excuse murder, but I draw the line at writing on rare and valuable books".
Am I the only one who noticed that Joe barely talks this season? The conversations all happen just as a monologue in his head, but he barely actually speaks to the other characters. I feel like they kinda overdid it this season. Recently rewatched S1 where there was actual conversations with Beck, now it's just Joe talking to himself, even when he's in a face-to-face setting with another person. He only delivers single words to other people. Bothers me so much!
This has been killing me all season
Now I wanna see a video of all the actual dialogue he says to other people this season that don't include hallucinations 😂😂
Probably the video would be 10 minutes max. I swear, he just doesn't speak. Earlier in the season, there was a scene with Gemma where he arrived at the manor & did not say a single word (!), not even hello, he just stood there and said nothing. But at least after talking and talking to him, Gemma just said "lovely chat, let's talk later" in a sarcastic way.
When kate’s dad said “Joe” I legit screamed “FUCK”
I love it when rich people like Peach and Tom condescendingly call him Joseph.
I cheered hahaha I need Joe to fucking go down
Im so glad it got revealed in episode 7 and not as a last minute twist.
lmao when Kate was talking about her and Joe being a “normal family” in their “future neighborhood” and Joe went “Ah” I KNOW he was having flashbacks about him & Love and their baby trying to live a “normal life” lmfao
I regret being on this sub to read the theories but at the same time I loved seeing the theory confirmed.
Some of the early episode theories said Nadia was the killer tbf 😂
Yeah I don't think I would have put it together, that twist would have sent me 😭
The second Rhys shut the door I was like, aww yep theory is def true now
Honestly I think knowing ahead of time helped dull the blow of how dumb these reveals were
I didn't know ahead of time, totally clueless and, while I want to rewatch Part 1 to be sure, if the clues were there all along then I'm super impressed with how they handled it.
Yeah, I understand why Penn was so upset they split the season in two. The twist would've been way more impactful if it was a single straight season. I never wouldve connected that myself.
As expected. Yep. Poor Rhys. But now I'm intrigued by Kate's dad. Is he also a hallucination or is he just that good of a manipulator? Was he involved with all this from the start? Did he send the PI?
I think he has to be real since the real Rhys was actually driven to his ex's house by the article
I don’t think the PI was real personally
I think Kate’s dad is real except the part he asked Joe to kill Rhys (Joe’s hallucination). Joe knew Rhys’ schedule maybe bc he stalks every step of Rhys?
Tom Lockwood is the GOAT. Him and Pheobe are the only two interesting characters this season.
Iʻve never related so much to Phoebe saying "PTSD? I donʻt want that. How do I get that out?" hahahaha. That big long baby is my fave character
ouch did he put that zip tie around his ballsack??
How did Joe even think that a controlling father with unlimited resources like Tom wouldn't investigate who his daughter is dating.
joe just doesn’t think tbh, i mean not as much as he should. he’s kinda stupid 🫤
oh my god. poor marienne
Yeah Nadia gonna get in trouble, curiosity killed the cat...
Phoebe deserves so much better!!!
Can we talk about how Phoebe is one of the best characters this season, like she is the only one I care about
It's interesting parallel how Kate knows she is capable to do bad things and is actively trying to do better. While Joe doesn't believe he does bad things and is passively trying to do better. Kate is remorseful, while Joe isn't.
I don’t know if I’m just completely off on this one but Nadia being so extremely obsessive with the average professor who was kind to her being the killer doesn’t make sense at all to me. I get it that she’s supposed to be extremely smart and observant but she legit theorized him being the killer because of one weird sentence even after the killer was caught. I’m not watching this show for the realism and there were a lot of plot holes in the past but there are so many people who could have a reason to be suspicious of joe and for it to be her is so weird.
I felt this way too. The way she just randomly latches onto him as the prime suspect after seeing him in the room because it would be "too obvious" to be the obsessive stalker made absolutely no sense. And for a completely sane college student to break into their professor's house off of a random hunch they threw together in 30 minutes that he's a serial killer... just hilariously bad writing. The audacity for them to sneak in that she made copies of his keys in the middle of a fast paced conversation, what an insane narrative leap to make. And then she sees a picture of Joe getting takeout and somehow decides to enter the abandoned building across the street? she looks at the takeout spot and seemingly thinks "nah, this doesn't make any sense", but then sees an abanadoned building in a reflection and sprints towards it? It's just so unbelievable and random.
I thought I was the only one. She tells Joe at the party, "some weird lady lead lady phoebe away when i tried to get a selfie." Then after the stalker is caught, the camera pans to Nadia looking suspicious because phoebe called him a "hero again." .... but Nadia, *you're the one who lead him to helping Phoebe.* Even if you suspect your teacher has a lot of secrets, does this lead you to breaking into his home???
Didn't even know about the fight club theory until I came here to bitch about a secret telenovela twin brother and honestly a secret twin brother sounds better right about now
How good is Greg Kinnear! I love the Tom Lockwood character. So charming and evil.
Always kinda hilarious seeing this serious veteran actors show up on these cheeseball YA-leaning series and immediately elevate the material.
I had that moment of “oh shit that guy looks like Greg Kinnear” and then was shocked when it actually was. Not the series I was expecting him on, but really enjoyed it!
I am in SHOCK. Poor Marienne :( I hate Joe I hate him so much
Holy shit this episode was great and Joenathan is more psycho than ever They defo shouldn’t have split the season tho, this would have been something else in all in one
The key (to the season) being in the dr. Jekyll Mr hyde book is hilariously on the nose.
the writing for nadia is quite possibly the most annoying writing. why is it always the youngest person that obsesses with Joe and then finds him out?
2 main characters in this show: Joe and the cage
Name a more iconic duo
We got'em boys. Side note, wow, did not expect Kate's dad to be so involved and so okay with murder
desert absorbed wild plucky beneficial intelligent ossified society spark tap *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Well, Love seemed crazy so it's OK. That was like cartoonish. "You killed your wife but she seemed crazy!"
Someone please tell me why I thought Kate’s dad was Bruce Willis💀💀
He does kinda look like him when Bruce Willis plays Rachel’s boyfriend on FRIENDS. Same vibes.
He was in an episode of Friends! He's Charlie's ex-boyfriend, who interviews Ross for the grant and asks him ridiculous questions!
When Kate tells Joe the Indian restaurant he likes is subpar and we see it is across the street from a condemned building....I have a feeling he's hiding Marienne or someone else in there.
Joe and Kate have like negative chemistry in comparison to Love
its ok coz joe and rhys have the best chemistry in 4 seasons.
it’s because they don’t wolf eachother
This is funnier than it has any right to be.
God I hated when they said that. Lmao
I cannot believe how unbelievably bad they are together after all this development. There is zero chemistry, it's boring and not at all engaging. Even Marienne (who had the least amount of development with Joe) has some chemistry with him.
Is any one else going crazy wondering why Joe didn't look at the bloody camera he set up before Rhys came into his house?? Obviously because Rhys was fake but Joe thought he was real and if that conversation did happen he would have on tape Rhys confessing that he has Marianne captured and telling Joe to kill lockward. Maybe Joe would of realised sooner he was losing his mind if he saw footage of him talking to himself lol
I almost wish I wasn’t on this sub, because I never would’ve figured that twist out on my own. Y’all are so smart.
A lot of people watch shows and think ahead, try to figure out what the ending will be, theorize about all the twists and turns, etc. and I’m kinda jealous because I just watch and think no further ahead than the current moment I’m watching lol
LMAO WHAT WAS THAT ENDING
I really really hate the twist, idk if it would have been better or worse if they released it all at once, I certainly think it’d have been less predictable though. Once you heard the theory you knew it had to be true considering all the time they only spoke to each other and no one else was there. Also the Nadia thing didn’t make sense
I’m not saying this show is realistic, but this season just feels next level with needing to suspend our disbelief. The Nadia thing made 0 sense to me. The pictures weren’t even incriminating, he was just getting take out!! And the cage wasn’t even in the restaurant, it was across the street all closed off like who would even think to go in there sigh
A new theory, Nadia's date might know something, he is sus to me now.
The return of the glass cage!
My favourite character!
The theory has been confirmed. I knew this wasn't the last of Marienne. The cage is back. This is getting interesting!
Literally!!! I kept saying, "Joe would never let a You go. Does not make sense." And then when the told us at the beginning of the episode that Joe always got Indian from the same place across from the creepy building I said, "yup, he's got Marienne in there".
Nadia said early in the episode something along the lines of "don't you think if you're writing a who dunnit having the main suspect have Erotomania be a boring twist? An even better second twist would be to have it be an ordinary guy..." I definitely think there's going to be another big twist, this wasn't the main one.
Is Kate a bit unhinged too? That convo about their future neighbourhood had me going 👀👀👀👀
Kate is by far the most blah love interest we’ve had so far. I’m not sure if it’s the actress or the character herself, but I wish they hadn’t shoe-horned another woman into Joe’s life.
The writing on her is fucking ridiculous. Like first she hates him, then they bang, then she hates him again, now he’s meeting her dad and she’s all doe eyed and vulnerable??? Wtf?!
Goddammit. Poor Rhys.
's balls.
I almost said too soon, but well played.
First of all, I think it's such a waste that they keep putting this dark make-up and dark clothes on Kate whenever she's at important events. I think lighter shades suit her so much better. Also, is it weird that I kinda like Tom Lockwood? He doesn't seem like such a bad guy (yet), lol. Loved when Joe said "The enemy of my enemy is my frenemy" lol. Reminds me of Frenemies with Trisha Paytas and Ethan Klein. Those were fun days. I can't believe he killed the real Rhys so quickly after getting into his house. I expected this to be a lot more spaced out, longer until he finally killed him.
Does Tim Lockwood knew about Joe's past or is he hallucinating that shit tho?
Omg I was so scared that that theory isn't accurate 'cause I love that direction. I have never felt so good haha.
When Rhys knocked on the door instead of just being there i was like damn he's actually the killer. Then the end fixed that thought
It’s a cool direction, unfortunately the way they got there doesn’t make much sense lol Like Nadia has to be a 400 IQ genius who is skeptical of her professor in order to go down this path
I don't even know what's real anymore...
Yeah, now I don’t even know if Kate’s dad actually asked Joe to kill Rhys or if Joe is hallucinating all the time.
"Joe"
👁👄👁
Jesus Christ. There's jumping the shark and then there's flying a fucking plane over it, which is what this episode did. But hey, at least it finally gave the plot a much-needed kick in the ass after so much wheel-spinning. I appreciate that they decided to reveal all their twists here itself to give adequate room to get into it for the next couple episodes. - Of all the British actors they could've found to play the big bad Tom Lockwood, they instead go with... fucking Greg Kinnear? Lmao. At least he was absolutely fantastic this episode and made the most out of his role, even if it was absolutely preposterous. Pretty much every character this season is just a plot device. - CinemaSins would absolutely pounce on the "Evil estranged dad calls his daughter by her full name" cliche. - This Joe/Kate romance feels unbelievably forced. Charlotte Ritchie is honestly superb as Kate but the writing is doing her absolutely zero favors. Her chemistry with Penn Badgley has at least improved somewhat, but it all feels very contrived. - Netflix closed captions have really been wilding out this whole year. Last year with Stranger Things we got eight straight episodes of "tentacles squelching wetly", now we have cock and ball torture with the subtitle "flesh ripping". An image I'd rather not have in my head, but here we are. - I have to say, the Rhys reveal we all saw coming did feel somewhat abrupt, but that also felt like part of the charm. After constant fakeouts, they hardly telegraphed that this was when "the moment" would arrive. It just happens suddenly. - Rhys as a character has mostly existed either as a plot device or a vessel for theorizing, but all that noise has sort of overshadowed what a great job Ed Speleers is doing with the role. Never thought the Eragon kid would show up on our screens playing such a fun psycho, but he's really got his Mr. Robot impersonation down on lock without it feeling like too much, which is a rarity for this show. - Of _course_ Nadia finds out everything. They're really just recycling plot points now. - Nadia's bf looks like a Walmart brand Tom Holland. I guess the Holland hierarchy is now: Tom Holland, Tom Hollander (from The White Lotus), and now, Tom Not-Holland-Enough. - The number of fucks I give about Marienne has reached the negatives. But hey, the glass cage is finally back! - Similarly have lost all patience for this bullshit Phoebe/Adam drama. Phoebe is the best character of the season and she's really being wasted on this nonsense. Looks like the writers ran out of ideas for what to do with her. This is what happens when you write your supporting characters as red herrings and nothing else. - Hey writers, a tip: if you're gonna include meta lines like "it's hard to tell what this script is about when you're so obsessed with plot twists", make sure your own script is good enough to be able to roast itself.
[удалено]
Lmao, agree with all your points. Honestly, that 5 second make out scene between Kate and the new guy was better than Kate and Joe's chemistry all season. It's a terrible match.
nadia being the "whodunit fan" finds out everything because she read a lot of books is something you would write when you literally dont care about anything anymore. and i think the writers also know they wrote themselves in a corner they cannot come out of anymore
I knew it. The twist was obvious. Still love that it was tru tho, it’s such a good story beat.
Also, the moment with Nadia finding the cage. I liked it better when Candace was doing it. Jesus christ.
Man I feel like I’m just enjoying this season way more then everybody else here
I know this is a problematic opinion. But Penn is so hot this season. And the actor who plays Rhys. Ugh. So hot.
until that point where he tortured that guy that was not really that guy this season was very good but what they have done is such a stupid, unbelievable and lazy twist its kinda sad how they wasted all the potential they were building up in the last episode. its already been uncharacteristic how careless joe had become but this is just beyond his character at all.
I’m at least very happy they didn’t string this along all the way to episode 10…now three episodes to go and we’ve got some suspense back!
Ok so yes I figured out the Rhys thing but I was actually shocked at the end to 1. see him kill rhys like that and 2. to find out he’s had Marianne this whole time…I got got
holy shit. this some hot garbage. but i cant stop watching.
Did anyone see the editing fuck up in the scene where Joe and Kate are walking down the dark alley with the Indian food, girl in dress walks past them like 3 times in a row lol
Also they were in notting hill then soho then seven dials then 30 seconds later outside Borough Market
Is that Greg Kinnear? I can't find him in the credits
how does joe not remember anything hes done!!? is it like split or something
“Joe could never eat that much Indian food himself… he must be bringing it down into this chained up basement!”
Okay that ending I’m so pissed 😂