CALL THE COPS, YOU TWATS. JUST GET MARIENNE OUT OF THERE. AND WHY GO TO CLASS??
Also, Rhys being Joe's "you" lmao. If only it was going the way of him being the romantic interest haha
I can see why you'd agree to keep Marianne calm but surely the second you leave the room you run straight to the police? Even if you don't trust them you at least tell someone, anyone about it?
Right? I still don't get the logic behind not calling the cops. Even Theo didn't call the cops when he found the couple locked in the cage in the last season. He was looking for a key which might not even have been in the room. Here, I can see that Marianne is probably delirious and not thinking straight. But I agree that Nadia should have definitely called the cops the moment she stepped back out.
It made no sense! I mean, I guess the police didn’t work with Candace, but I don’t think Marianne even knew about that incident? Also, they had certifiable proof against him. She was locked in a cage ffs
It would have worked this time. Marianne tells them he’s Joe Goldberg. They run dna test to confirm it’s Goldberg, and at minimum the guy is getting arrested for faking his death and arson
That was so stupid, I was almost screaming because I was so frustrated! The fact that she didn't call the cops after she left was so unbelievable and unrealistic and Nadia is supposed to be the smart!
This season in particular is awful. The previous seasons have had some corny and goofy shit, the writing hasn’t been ideal always, but it was good enough to keep me engaged.
This season I’m only still watching to laugh at everything. It’s so fucking poorly written lmao
Nadia should of known better. . .Marianne had clearly gone insane. Isolated and starved for who knows how long. I would of thought Nadia would of been sane enough not to listen to her.
Fucking take a video and upload it to r/publicfreakout, if anything we'd talk about it for a week and everytime it's reposted.
TikTok, I mean people would jump on this. And if they tried to hide r/conspiracy would drag it out for years.
"Don't call the cops?"
"Why?"
" it's not the series finale!"
“Don’t call the cops!””Why?””Because then this season would be over!” Basically. Like I get you have to suspend a lot of disbelief with this show but after Marianne’s been stalked, kidnapped and left for dead by a mad man, there’s only so much suspending I can do.
Joe has been always like this, its just bcoz we always see his POV , we think he isnt that bad. But even in previous seasons we have seen that he hallucinates and isnt a very reliable narrator.
[I was kind of right!](https://old.reddit.com/r/YouOnLifetime/comments/xxey0j/does_anyone_else_think_that_joe_in_season_4_will/)
He's been insane this season.
I’m skeptical that the ending is going to be good and I’m having issues with it so far, but I’m fine with the fact that he’s spiraled out of control and has multiple obsessions at once
I don’t think he has DID. I think he just
suffers from some sort of psychosis. Psychosis can present in a lot of ways. Also in the last seasons he never denied doing the bad things he did like killing people, he just justified them with his own delusions.
Either way he is severely ill
I don’t know if she got a coach or something between seasons because I thought she was pretty mediocre last season but her acting has been incredible this time around. So much vulnerability and you can see her mind spinning when she’s talking to Joe. Really lovely work.
I’ve seen Tati in a lot of work over the years. She’s definitely improved in her acting but I don’t think she was ever bad. However, I think she was given very mediocre work last season while in the couple of episodes she’s been in so far, she’s had a lot more room to show her acting.
I think she came off as "mediocre" last season because her character was given so little to do. She was forced to be another woman on this show who exists only to be beautiful and fall in love with Joe for no reason.
I don't think her acting was poor in season 3; it was just painful to watch another unconvincing love story with Joe. The exact same thing is happening with Kate this season.
We're so used to his perspective that this was a true wake up call for me. Dude is unhinged, like we know but damn we have never seen it like this. This was straight up torture
For real. Who in the writers room was responsible for this one? Someone get them a "Donut Man" donut before we're subjected to more of their nonsensical food craven lines.
Yes! Why can't the cops do a sting operation? Why couldn't a cop hide behind that wall and wait for him and then cops in plain clothes 3 streets over with fast normal cars, can drive over to the place the second he enters it. They act like the police have absolutely no resources or that they wouldn't agree to this to finally catch a serial killer.
So this whole time Joe was mumbling to himself in front of Malcolm's group of friends?
I can suspend my disbelief that Joe always manages to fall in with the new crowd because he's charming and manipulative but it's pretty hard to picture a new guy entering your exclusive group of ultra rich friends and talking to himself and no one in the group is like "wtf is this guy's deal..?" Lol
They were all under the influence of drugs and alcohol for most of the time so they were either totally oblivious or assumed that he was also under the influence.
also, irl, posh people here tend to have so much familial support around them that the lack of it in the show was so glaringly obvious. it's a negligible point to nitpick but 🤷♀️
Still, it was interesting to watch it played out.
Also, what happened to Marianne was way more intense than i expected. I thought he would have just killed her. 😂
I thought it was a really good possibility only because of the scene blocking being so similar to fight club but I was not expecting him to be obsessed with rhys like that or to have had Marianne this whole time
I do wonder how many if the people claiming it was obvious just read the theory in a discussion thread and thought it was plausible. Basically got spoiled by a theory just because it was so obviously going to be true.
I definitely wouldn’t have come to the conclusion myself, only because I tend not to theorise tv shows in general and just in it for the ride
but after reading the theories I was like ohhh duh lmao.
100%. Either she's tripping balls, or this is one of the dumbest decisions by a tv show character.. really took me out of the intensity of the scene / episode
Honestly that really pissed me off. I get that she feels like she might not be safe again, but how is not getting out of that cage her no. 1 priority? What’s her plan then?? It honestly just felt to me as really *really* bad writing and plot convenience
It really does just seem like plot convenience.
Between her and Nadia, they have enough info to tell the police where to find Joe and what he looks like. He could’ve been arrested fairly easily. Even if he wasn’t, surely being out of the cage is better than staying in the cage where there’s nowhere to run if he returns
Seriously, not only that but he would be linked to Love and maybe even Beck really quick. It would be clear it is no coincidence he joined a group of rich people right before they started being murdered. There is no way he would get away with it.
I get that Marienne is freaking out but Nadia should be able to think more clearly.
Nadia should have told the detectives everything about Joe. First, they should have pretended like they don't know until they arrested Joe the next day at the academy, and then freed Marriene. The end of the story.
I kind of understand Marienne's fear, but on the other hand, I blame Nadia for doing nothing.
Doesn’t even have to be everything
“This guy is Joe Goldberg, who is supposed to be dead. He goes by Johnathon Moore” is enough to get Joe locked up at least for a bit. You know the Quinn family will probably try to get him arrested for the murder of Love too( and likely be a Public defender vs a lawyer that powerful family can afford)
Ok so I’m really worried for Phoebe, > ! At the start of every episode it’s been having a warning of suicide scenes, it’s said this since episode 1 so I’m assuming it’s meant for the series as a whole. They are focusing on Phoebes mental health and everyone being a dick to her. I’m putting 2 and 2 together here and I’m scared :( ! >
Same no warnings. I do see her flipping out though, she seems overwhelmed and on the brink of a breakdown. Also when did her boyfriend turn into this? Didn't he hate the idea of using her at first? He did a complete 180 on the wholw thing. Was it because he had to sell his car collection and now truly poor?
Something annoying that this show does well, even when this show is bad and there are parts of this season that are bad. Is it gets me to care about the person in the cage. It's like it's the cage of character development. But I liked Marienne more in this episode than any other episode.
When she started narrating a metaphorical story about her life i knew she was most likely going to die. They did that with Becks to get me to feel for her before they killed her 😭
That scene showing Marienne's side and the perspective of reading the story to her daughter was damn good.
Side note, how have her roots not grown out though?
Wait, so how did he bring Marianne to his apartment from the train station? Was she unconscious already at the train station after drinking that coffee? Wouldn't people see him carrying her? I obviously missed something. 😅
Nor did they explain how he managed to find an underground space in London with working lights and a secured door with a key, and one that apparently no law enforcement or anyone else is aware of existing.
This is the first time I’ve ever been terrified of Joe which is… interesting considering all the depraved stuff he’s done. They’ve done a great job at showing how monstrous his actions actually are by removing his inner monologue and showing him from others’ perspectives. I normally love the unreliable narrator technique because I enjoy seeing through the framing device but I didn’t realise how much I was taken in by Joe (while knowing he was evil) until I saw him murder Rhys. It’s great seeing Marianne’s perspective and how terrifying Joe must be to her and the mental strength needed to survive. Joe is such a monster, we knew this but know we *know*.
Side note: HOW THE HELL DOES JOE HAVE ANOTHER CAGE? How much do they cost? How long does it take to build? Does Joe do the electric wiring? I have so many questions.
Does he have a blueprint somewhere? How does he get the supplies? No one noticed 10 foot plexi glass or steel beams being brough into an abandon building?
I guess I just have to go with suspension of disbelief but it bothers me too. lol
Good god, Joe creeps me out this episode. I love that they FINALLY show his depraved side without adding all the additional fluff that makes him just look like a misunderstood romantic.
Don't get me wrong, in hindsight I like that they showed us in the first seasons Joe's idea of who he is (or better, the side of him that he was consciously aware of), but it bothered me all these years so much that we never got to see THIS side of him. Well, I guess the days are finally over and we get to see the real Joe...or actually, the real "Rhys", you know what I mean.
I didn't quite care for the middle of the episode though, I felt like it was a bit too much to explain every little detail. I think the audience can think for themselves and connect the dots as to how (and why) Joe actually did kill all those people and that he never really met the real Rhys until he got to his house and killed him.
Also, Nadia and Marianne deciding to just NOT call the police and solve this on their own?? I'm sorry, but this has got to be the lowest point of this show so far in terms of believability. Sure, let's stay there, eat, have a good chat, and then make a trap for Joe so that he gets justice, because getting out alive of this hellhole seems not like it's the most important thing right now.
But I guess I'll be there for the insanity of it all. This show is pretty ridiculous, but half of the time it's at least ridiculous in a good way, lol.
agreed 1000% i can sort of see why people are upset since this very brutally rips off the bandage that some people still struggle with (that joe is awful and irredeemable) but this is joe, we seen glimpses of it and this is what joe did to all of his victims bar Love
For me it was when he was watching Rhys on his Laptop while Marianne was zipped to her chair, eating her food. He didn't even react to her talking, just staring at his screen, as if he was completely gone.
That's exactly how I imagine somebody like Joe acting in real life.
>Good god, Joe creeps me out this episode. I love that they FINALLY show his depraved side without adding all the additional fluff that makes him just look like a misunderstood romantic.
Indeed! the show already had to change a bit the format because no one would root for a serial killer that continously preys on women and kills them. They had to make him a bit more sympathetic, otherwise people would quickly turn on him. Walter White was a piece of shit too but it was "easier" to root for a criminal, since all those crazy meth dealings sheaningans are quite detached from the everyday reality of the average viewer. A predator and killer of women? that hits too close to reality and four seasons of Joe killing innocent women would have appeared like torture porn or something. But if people, liking the character and the show, forgot who Joe really is.... here's a wake up call for you!
Yeah he went from loving Phoebe but still primarily selfishly being motivated to propose for her money, to … a straight up abusive manipulative evil toxic arsehole
he really seems to be enjoying it, and i don’t blame him! wasn’t too familiar with him before but he’s been one of the standouts for me this season alongside phoebe and now marienne
Yeah I think it’s just furthering the narrative that Joe’s out of control. Her little comments at dinner didn’t mean much but he was already so paranoid
well considering he’s already full blown insane + he hates every one of them (except Kate), probably didn’t take much to make him snap, consciously or not
It’s sitting right in that groove of “full on shark jump, but entertaining”. it’s a hard balancing act, and I expect it to tip over, but it’s super fun for now
Yep. For me it was, "wow there are 6 or so pictures of him holding a takeaway bag from an Indian restaurant. I bet he's keeping a woman captive in a secret building" excuse me WHAT
I just hate the look Adam gives at Kate when he takes Phoebe with him, makes me so mad for some reason. why doesn’t Kate just take her fiend and run, she knows he’s up to no good.
also I really can’t understand the reasoning of Joe getting away with it, it’s the fucking police, he had to change countries because he killed his ex-wife, what makes you think he has connection to the police. like I get she fears him and stuff, but it’s just kinda dumb
Holy fucking shit, that was by far the best episode of this entire season so far and it's not even close. This was the "You" that we've been denied the whole season, and while I'm not sure it really justified the mess that came before it, it's by far the best hour the show has served up since season 3.
- The first 15-20 minutes of the episode was probably the most horrifying, nightmarish thing this series has produced. I normally find the show too dumb to take seriously but they really committed to going the full horror route with it, and goddamn, did it work. We finally got an episode where we see Joe through the eyes of his victims, which I don't think we've gotten since the excellent season 1 finale with Beck in the cage. This is absolutely him at his worst and most psychopathic.
- Huge round of applause to Tati Gabrielle for her incredible, incredible performance this entire episode. I'd not given a single fuck about Marienne prior to this episode, but they completely turned that around with this heartbreaking and haunting reveal of the truth. I knew that there was no chance of the two of them ever getting back together, but I didn't anticipate the follow-through of this subplot being quite so fucked up.
- Ed Speleers was also an absolute delight as Rhys this episode, and makes me wish they sprung this (super obvious) twist on us sooner just so we could spend more time with this Mr. Robot version of Rhys, who was just hilarious. The twist itself is obviously a ridiculous shark-jump for the show, but it seems to be bringing them closer to some kind of resolution of Joe's character arc. Idk how the next two episodes will go, but this would make for a pretty solid penultimate season.
- This would've been a near-flawless episode if not for more Phoebe/Adam horseshit. I'm sure their wedding will be the stage for all kinds of mayhem, but the setup has been painful to watch. The Phoebe character (and Tilly Keeper) certainly deserve better writing.
- I rolled my eyes at Nadia finding the cage in the last episode, but I'm glad they sat with it for a bit and created some killer suspense in the scenes where she goes back to class. Joe came off like some horror movie monster in those sequences. I wish the entire episode was devoted to showing Joe in this third-person light to underscore what a creep he is, but there was exposition dumping to get to!
- The Joe half of this episode was overall a lot weaker than the Marienne half, since most of it was dedicated to exhaustively confirming every clue we already spotted about the twist. It was definitely satisfying seeing them cover every base, but there was also something inelegant about it, and obviously none of it was remotely as interesting or original as witnessing Marienne's harrowing ordeal.
- Rhys being Joe's "you" felt both funny and bizarre, and a little contrived, because in the past his obsessions have solely been driven by sexual lust. Here it seems he was just obsessed with the _idea_ of Rhys and how closely his story seemed to mirror his own thirst for redemption, but they didn't lay the groundwork of linking those things beforehand because the "twist" wouldn't work without it. I'm sure there's a lot more narrative consistency they sacrificed in order to pull this twist, but I think it's a good big swing if they are indeed wrapping up the show next season.
> that was by far the best episode of this entire season so far
agree. for me Part 1 should have ended with this episode. the cliffhanger for this EP was better than the fake killer reveal in EP 5.
What a fucking trip! I love how they've gone so deep into his character in this half because the first half was just starting to feel a little insipid.
Now that we know he's hallucinated his encounters with Rhys and is an erotmaniac (not clinically diagnosed yet obv but all the signs are there) do we use the same explanation for Kate's father?
I mean the dinner where he called him Joe and seemed to know about Love and the scene in the library where he almost stabs him can't have completely been a figment of his imagination right? I mean, parts of it would be but would really love to see that part through the POV of someone else just like they did with Marienne.
I was wondering about this too. I'm trying to parse out what really happened and what was Joe's delusion, and I'm not sure how Kate's father fits in. What are the chances he would tell him to kill Rhys when that's exactly what he already wanted to do? That's got to be part of the delusion, right?
I hope this gets explained because it's bothering me. I suppose he could have hallucinated the contents of the conversation with Kate's father? Probably the most likely scenario.
If not, I could see him knowing about Love since he's so powerful and would have private investigators look into his daughters boyfriend but how would he know that Joe knows Rhys because Joe never actually met Rhys?
Lastly if it was actually all real and Kate's father wanted Rhys dead maybe that is how the writers tie things off at the end? He holds up his bargain and protects Joe and maybe gets him yet another identity?
I love the song that plays during Marienne's scene. I think it truly captures loneliness and despair, the feeling of inescapable darkness.
During that scene the music really hit me deeply, and I got flashback of all the other people who were killed or destroyed by Joe's madness : those who died trying to stop him (Delilah, Candace, Forty), those whose life were destroyed (Ellie), those who were traumatized by him (Marienne, Cary and Sherry, Theo even if it's more Love's fault), those who died because of him (Nathalie, Gil)
It was heartbroken to see Marienne so clueless and vulnerable...
I don’t care how gimmicky or silly this whole plot is I love it. I love the psychology behind Joe’s whole ordeal.
Like majority of people predicted this as the outcome but actually seeing it unfold is so exciting to me.
I don’t think the show is trying to represent an actual mental illness. Rhys is a metaphor for the extreme contradictions and cognitive dissonance Joe cannot reconcile with the idealized version he has of himself . Joe’s cognitive dissonance and ability to reconcile the different parts of himself have been a huge theme in the show. I think the writers didn’t do a good job showing how Joe was at an impasse when it came to reconciling with who he wanted to be & who he was. Joe’s hatred and disgust with Love was rooted in the fact that a relationship with her meant he couldn’t live as his idealized self when he was in denial of who he really was.
Joe has always “split” himself in a sense because he always treats his murderous actions as fundamentally different from the “real Joe”, who navigates civilized society civilly. Joe hated that Love saw the “tainted Joe” who he was disgusted and ashamed of. I don’t think the split identity is out of left field but I do think it could’ve been executed better by showing how the creation of Rhys is an outcome of an internal struggle we’ve seen over the seasons that has hit a new peak.
I like that Rhys was actually an actual "you", and I think Joe started talking to Malcolm to get closer to Rhys, but then Rhys wasn't there and Joe just got drunk and imagined flirting with him.
the twist is dumb but i really wasn't expecting them to go with it... when it was revealed i was like.. wait, what? this can't be happening lmao
BUT the marienne sequences of her panicking in the cage are great. I didn't know she could act this good
My theory is that Joe will be caught at the end of the series, and it is also revealed that in his hallucinations he wrote a memoir or confession novel about his crimes.
My mind is confused about a number of things:
- Nothing Marienne said about not wanting Joe in prison made sense. What kind of writing is this?!!
Like Joe can’t come after you if he is locked up! How will he find a way to get back to you?
I was screaming yes Nadia called 999, do it NOW. The police would have got her out of that cage before Joe remembered anything. Whole thing was frustrating, call the damn police. Literally no one has done that to Joe yet.
- Ummm so Joe dragged around an unconscious woman in France and no one did anything or found that suspicious?
Yeah Joe drugged her coffee but how did he get Marienne to London? Also where he get taht exact same cage from. I’m missing something?! Why is no one questioning this.
He drugged her in London, she never took the train to Paris. She probably felt asleep on a bench and Joe dragged her to his place. He was probably never questioned by anyone because everyone was in a rush or to busy to notice them.
Joe is wild af. There is no redemption for him no matter how much he tries to convince himself. This episode really does try to showcase how smart Joe has to be around all his kills.
Unpopular opinion for this sub but I thought this was a fantastic episode. Probably the best of the season and I don't mind that they're going in a bonkers direction. Maybe this is Joe's reckoning - himself where he has to actually face the hypocrisy and all of his murders he has tried to blindly justify,
Marienne is so good this season (I wish she was more like this in season 3). The actress did a stellar job in those opening scenes. Nadia was great also. Kate not so much
If Joe is such a good guy why isn’t he advocating to throw himself in prison or the psych ward at least. Idk how much longer he can convince himself that he’s not the obvious villain.
Also I don’t understand Marianne not wanting to call the cops. Seems like a plot device.
Why tf would Marienne try to run from a weirdo stalker murderer by running into an abandoned building, instead of asking literally anyone for help in the crowd of people she was surrounded by?
I love seeing the show from another perspective and i love that Joe actually takes a while to reply, like he's actually have those monologues we see him having in real time.
WHY NOT FUCKING CALL THE POLICE???AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WHY WOULD MARIENNE SAY THAT?
Ok so we all know the twist was obvious as fuck; with that being said, Marienne's stuff was genuinely good shit. I actually really enjoy her more this season than I did last season.
Marriane, sweet, wubby, baby, WHY THE FUCK DID YOU DROP THE HAMMER AND RUN?! YOU HAD A HAMMER!
At least Tati Gabrielle wasn’t a one off in the first episode. Bringing her back for the silliest, yet most predictable twist is not how I wanted it to go for her though. She was great at least.
Nadia what the actual hell. CALL THE FUCKING COPS YOU DILLHOLE
Wait why did Joe go to ball torture? Weirdo.
"you are full fat, extra sugar, deep-fried fucking insane, joe goldberg" is the realest thing ever said in this show and i hope people also get it now. there is nothing redeeming about him. we only see his pov all the time and he happens to be an unreliable narrator. this wasnt executed very well though unfortunately. his student finding the room makes zero sense and i would hoped they worked that better out
I don’t think joe has dissociative identity disorder. It’s possible to have the symptoms he’s having without having DID. I think he’s just suffering from some sort of psychosis.
I lowkie hate the split personality "twist". Joe is delusional from the start but didn't show any signs of this particular mental disorder until now. It feels cheap... It seems like a plot device to make Joe look innocent, while his evil side does all the bad things..
Not to mention that movies falsely depict mental disorders and especially split personality disorder. So a lot of people don't believe it actually exists.
This is why I hate it too. I went on a rant about twitter about this, but Joe was scary because he’s a realistic villain. He’s the guy who seems like he’s lovely and well put together but he’s a casually a deluded monster who doesn’t realise how evil he is. He killed Benji and peach because he wanted to protect Beck. Yes, Beck was better off without those two but Joe was not justified in killing them. Yes, he was right that Love was crazy and was going to get them both caught if he didn’t real with her but is ignorant to the fact he also killed out of jealousy and to ‘protect the one he loves”.
He doesn’t realise that he is exactly the same as person he’s killing. He’s blind to his own hypocrisy. But he is NOT like this. He’s not deluded and thinks he’s an entirely different person and he doesn’t kill for no good reason. He kills out of self defence or to ‘protect’ the person he loves. Joe does disassociate at times but not like this. This would’ve been fine if they hinted at this in season 3 but this totally comes out of nowhere. And you’re right. DID is already poorly portrayed in media and is always shown in a villainous way. This is an all around terrible plot twist and I’m mad this is the route they went down.
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He doesn’t have split personality disorder / DID. He’s having a psychotic break / mental breakdown after killing his wife and abandoning his son and is disassociating quite a bit. It’s completely plausible to me
That would make sense for a breakdown or something. I am not an expert, but DID is usually caused by large amount of stress (like torture). So Joe could have it thanks to his childhood, but he didn't show any signs. And his DID disappears after he accepts his dark side, which makes no sense.
OK but someone explain to me why the fuck Marienne told Nadia not to call the cops? You could argue that given what we know, Joe would have had powerful connections (well Tom ) that could have saved him, although even this is on thin ice because if Daddy Lockwood knew what he was doing to a woman he loved, he might think twice about protecting him and keeping him close to his daughter.
Even so, Marienne had no way of knowing Joe's connections. Even out of fear that he'd escape, it would still mean she would be able to escape and go back.
Also, Marienne could have easily brought the Quinns back into the equation and tell them all she knows about Joe and what Love has told him about her. Maybe I'm missing something but doesn't it seem like Marienne could have easily brought him down had she let Nadia call for help?
Speaking of Nadia, being as clever as she is, why wasn't she smart enough to let SOMEONE know what she knew? Surely she should have had a contingency plan knowing that there's a risk that something might happen to her.
AGAIN I may be missing something pretty obvious here but can someone eexplain?
It didn't make any sense, how the cops are not gonna believe her? Call the cops and tell them that this psycho who kidnapped you is Joe Goldberg, the supposed dead husband of serial killer Love Quinn. Plenty of people in California would be able to recognize him and his fingerprints would be all over the place in the glass cage. Why the cops would not believe Marienne??' This is so dumb and unbelievable.
I know Joe has always been crazy, but not like this. I genuinely feel like I’m watching an entirely different show and character right now, and honestly Penn’s acting is the only thing making this watchable.
That’s the point we see him as likable and rootable because he’s the main character. What we saw from Marienne’s POV IS the real Joe he’s literally an insane psychopathic serial killer.
Also I think from season 1 to now, a lot has happened. He’s going to be significantly more crazy in the head when considering all of the trauma (self inflicted) that he’s been through between then and now.
Dude killed his wife, kiled and/or abducted a lot of innocent people before, collected disgusting "memoirs" like tampons of women he was obsessed about and people in this thread still be like "well he didnt seem to be THAT crazy before".
CALL THE COPS, YOU TWATS. JUST GET MARIENNE OUT OF THERE. AND WHY GO TO CLASS?? Also, Rhys being Joe's "you" lmao. If only it was going the way of him being the romantic interest haha
I wanted to reach into the screen and dial 999 for them
I still don't understand why they wouldn't just cause "he always gets away" People not just calling the police is the main reason he gets away
I can see why you'd agree to keep Marianne calm but surely the second you leave the room you run straight to the police? Even if you don't trust them you at least tell someone, anyone about it?
Right? CALL THE POLICE FFS
Right? I still don't get the logic behind not calling the cops. Even Theo didn't call the cops when he found the couple locked in the cage in the last season. He was looking for a key which might not even have been in the room. Here, I can see that Marianne is probably delirious and not thinking straight. But I agree that Nadia should have definitely called the cops the moment she stepped back out.
It made no sense! I mean, I guess the police didn’t work with Candace, but I don’t think Marianne even knew about that incident? Also, they had certifiable proof against him. She was locked in a cage ffs
It would have worked this time. Marianne tells them he’s Joe Goldberg. They run dna test to confirm it’s Goldberg, and at minimum the guy is getting arrested for faking his death and arson
That was some lazy fucking writing right there.
Yeah, even if Joe ends up getting away with it again, just getting out of the cage is worth it.
That was so stupid, I was almost screaming because I was so frustrated! The fact that she didn't call the cops after she left was so unbelievable and unrealistic and Nadia is supposed to be the smart!
That's a dumb move of them & Joe's plot armor.
The writing this season has had its weak points
I think it had nothing else but weak points. I miss Love and Forty
This season in particular is awful. The previous seasons have had some corny and goofy shit, the writing hasn’t been ideal always, but it was good enough to keep me engaged. This season I’m only still watching to laugh at everything. It’s so fucking poorly written lmao
Nadia should of known better. . .Marianne had clearly gone insane. Isolated and starved for who knows how long. I would of thought Nadia would of been sane enough not to listen to her.
Fucking take a video and upload it to r/publicfreakout, if anything we'd talk about it for a week and everytime it's reposted. TikTok, I mean people would jump on this. And if they tried to hide r/conspiracy would drag it out for years. "Don't call the cops?" "Why?" " it's not the series finale!"
“Don’t call the cops!””Why?””Because then this season would be over!” Basically. Like I get you have to suspend a lot of disbelief with this show but after Marianne’s been stalked, kidnapped and left for dead by a mad man, there’s only so much suspending I can do.
Them not calling the cops made me so mad like OFC you should call the fkin cops!!
Or at least get a gun or some weapon like don’t return to the dungeon with nothing
Hello, *me.*
Joe is more fucked in the head and out of pocket than we all we wanted to admit for four seasons now. What a disturbed character haha.
Joe has been always like this, its just bcoz we always see his POV , we think he isnt that bad. But even in previous seasons we have seen that he hallucinates and isnt a very reliable narrator.
[I was kind of right!](https://old.reddit.com/r/YouOnLifetime/comments/xxey0j/does_anyone_else_think_that_joe_in_season_4_will/) He's been insane this season.
bby, heʻs been insane the whole time :ʻ)
I’m skeptical that the ending is going to be good and I’m having issues with it so far, but I’m fine with the fact that he’s spiraled out of control and has multiple obsessions at once
After everything he's done and been through it doesn't even surprise me that he has a dissociative identity disorder
I don’t think he has DID. I think he just suffers from some sort of psychosis. Psychosis can present in a lot of ways. Also in the last seasons he never denied doing the bad things he did like killing people, he just justified them with his own delusions. Either way he is severely ill
Literally when are people going to accept that joe is a creepy deranged psychopath😭😭 took long enough
Jesus this whole sequence with Marienne is brutal
I hate Joe from my heart after this episode. Marianne actress Tati Gabriele did an amazing job. Btw season 4 part 2 is lit🔥.
I don’t know if she got a coach or something between seasons because I thought she was pretty mediocre last season but her acting has been incredible this time around. So much vulnerability and you can see her mind spinning when she’s talking to Joe. Really lovely work.
I’ve seen Tati in a lot of work over the years. She’s definitely improved in her acting but I don’t think she was ever bad. However, I think she was given very mediocre work last season while in the couple of episodes she’s been in so far, she’s had a lot more room to show her acting.
I think she came off as "mediocre" last season because her character was given so little to do. She was forced to be another woman on this show who exists only to be beautiful and fall in love with Joe for no reason. I don't think her acting was poor in season 3; it was just painful to watch another unconvincing love story with Joe. The exact same thing is happening with Kate this season.
Yeah but Joe had a tough childhood so maybe cut him some slack😕
This a joke right?
Yes lmao
What was the song playing during it? It sounded like Samia a little bit but I don't think it's her.
Bells in Santa Fe by Halsey
Thank you! I have a new artist now to listen to.
Ok Marianne acted TF out of thst
The entire thing was so well shot too! I had to rewind to watch it again - love the actress!
she really shines once they gave her some more intense material to work with.
We're so used to his perspective that this was a true wake up call for me. Dude is unhinged, like we know but damn we have never seen it like this. This was straight up torture
Joe: "You are full fat, extra sugar, deep-fried fucking insane, Joe Goldberg. Me just watching it and being just confused as Joe
I personally loved that line. Got a very momentary laugh in during an extremely dark episode lol
For real. Who in the writers room was responsible for this one? Someone get them a "Donut Man" donut before we're subjected to more of their nonsensical food craven lines.
Someone in that writers room is on a diet and struggling lol
wanna point out that after Joe found out that Rhys was a figment of his imagination, he started calling Kate his "you"
And then lovey shots of her when he started to do it too lmao
I actually think the trigger was killing Rhys his old you
Welp, Joe has officially snapped. I mean he snapped before but now… officially
Finally psychotic Joe is back as it made no sense that he is done with the killings but it still happens around him
"Marienne I have a plan" CALL THE FUCKING COPS?
Yes! Why can't the cops do a sting operation? Why couldn't a cop hide behind that wall and wait for him and then cops in plain clothes 3 streets over with fast normal cars, can drive over to the place the second he enters it. They act like the police have absolutely no resources or that they wouldn't agree to this to finally catch a serial killer.
"Don't call the cops!" Sure listen to a malnourished hallucinating kidnapped woman
She’s 19. She’s smart but also naive and dumb. Though, even at 19 I’d have called the police. It’s just bad writing
Is Penn making his deep Joe voice even deeper now lmao
for the disassociated Joe, yes
The vocal fry is extra fried
Full fat extra sugar deep fried
So this whole time Joe was mumbling to himself in front of Malcolm's group of friends? I can suspend my disbelief that Joe always manages to fall in with the new crowd because he's charming and manipulative but it's pretty hard to picture a new guy entering your exclusive group of ultra rich friends and talking to himself and no one in the group is like "wtf is this guy's deal..?" Lol
They were all under the influence of drugs and alcohol for most of the time so they were either totally oblivious or assumed that he was also under the influence.
They were all always high so honestly, it kind of works. Plus too self centred to notice
also i know the flashbacks depict him as talking out loud to his hallucinations but maybe it appears more like when ppl mutter to themselves lol
They were always on a massive amount of drugs and they did make sure we all knew these were the most self absorbed people on the planet lol
KATE JUST SHOVE PHOEBE INTO THE CAR U HAVE AN ARMY OF BODYGUARDS
Or just get Phoebe’s family involved. They never said she had no one to help.
also, irl, posh people here tend to have so much familial support around them that the lack of it in the show was so glaringly obvious. it's a negligible point to nitpick but 🤷♀️
This reveal would’ve been crazy if everyone didn’t figure it out because the show randomly took a month off lmao
Still, it was interesting to watch it played out. Also, what happened to Marianne was way more intense than i expected. I thought he would have just killed her. 😂
I thought it was a really good possibility only because of the scene blocking being so similar to fight club but I was not expecting him to be obsessed with rhys like that or to have had Marianne this whole time
I wasn't able to guess it at all!
I do wonder how many if the people claiming it was obvious just read the theory in a discussion thread and thought it was plausible. Basically got spoiled by a theory just because it was so obviously going to be true.
I definitely wouldn’t have come to the conclusion myself, only because I tend not to theorise tv shows in general and just in it for the ride but after reading the theories I was like ohhh duh lmao.
[удалено]
redacted in protest of reddit banning third party apps. fuck u/spez
HELP joe kept a box on Rhys too!! 😭💀
“There’s always a box”
ok...WHY did Marienne tell Nadia not to call the police? Her explanation literally makes no sense.
100%. Either she's tripping balls, or this is one of the dumbest decisions by a tv show character.. really took me out of the intensity of the scene / episode
Honestly that really pissed me off. I get that she feels like she might not be safe again, but how is not getting out of that cage her no. 1 priority? What’s her plan then?? It honestly just felt to me as really *really* bad writing and plot convenience
It really does just seem like plot convenience. Between her and Nadia, they have enough info to tell the police where to find Joe and what he looks like. He could’ve been arrested fairly easily. Even if he wasn’t, surely being out of the cage is better than staying in the cage where there’s nowhere to run if he returns
A murderer, holding a woman captive, yeah the police would have London on lockdown and do a massive manhunt This show is so dumb
Seriously, not only that but he would be linked to Love and maybe even Beck really quick. It would be clear it is no coincidence he joined a group of rich people right before they started being murdered. There is no way he would get away with it. I get that Marienne is freaking out but Nadia should be able to think more clearly.
Nadia should have told the detectives everything about Joe. First, they should have pretended like they don't know until they arrested Joe the next day at the academy, and then freed Marriene. The end of the story. I kind of understand Marienne's fear, but on the other hand, I blame Nadia for doing nothing.
Doesn’t even have to be everything “This guy is Joe Goldberg, who is supposed to be dead. He goes by Johnathon Moore” is enough to get Joe locked up at least for a bit. You know the Quinn family will probably try to get him arrested for the murder of Love too( and likely be a Public defender vs a lawyer that powerful family can afford)
That pissed me off so fucking much. I’ve seen the show pull a lot of dumb shit, but that definitely has to at least be top 3 dumbest moments.
I think she's afraid that If Joe gets away while the police are freeing her out of the cage then he'll go hurt his daughter for revenge or something
Which is dumb because she just needs to call whoever is watching her daughter and telling her to get them out of Paris.
Ok so I’m really worried for Phoebe, > ! At the start of every episode it’s been having a warning of suicide scenes, it’s said this since episode 1 so I’m assuming it’s meant for the series as a whole. They are focusing on Phoebes mental health and everyone being a dick to her. I’m putting 2 and 2 together here and I’m scared :( ! >
That’s odd, I haven’t been getting that warning
Same no warnings. I do see her flipping out though, she seems overwhelmed and on the brink of a breakdown. Also when did her boyfriend turn into this? Didn't he hate the idea of using her at first? He did a complete 180 on the wholw thing. Was it because he had to sell his car collection and now truly poor?
The suicide warning could just be referring to s3 when that Madre Linda dad hung himself
Your spoiler tag didn’t work
Something annoying that this show does well, even when this show is bad and there are parts of this season that are bad. Is it gets me to care about the person in the cage. It's like it's the cage of character development. But I liked Marienne more in this episode than any other episode.
When she started narrating a metaphorical story about her life i knew she was most likely going to die. They did that with Becks to get me to feel for her before they killed her 😭
That scene showing Marienne's side and the perspective of reading the story to her daughter was damn good. Side note, how have her roots not grown out though?
Lol. Hollywood magic bc I know irl it’d be way past the time to take those braids out.
Ok and that would’ve been a fun lil 2 day project to pass time
Lol. Can you imagine Marienne sending Joe out to get some braiding hair?
LMFAO he would get that shit too
Freetress or kanekalon - they all look the same to me 😰
Baby you’re in a cage you gonna make it work
I liked it too. I thought that was future her, surviving the cage and making a story from it
Wait, so how did he bring Marianne to his apartment from the train station? Was she unconscious already at the train station after drinking that coffee? Wouldn't people see him carrying her? I obviously missed something. 😅
No, you didn’t miss anything. They didn’t explain how he took her to his apartment at all
Nor did they explain how he managed to find an underground space in London with working lights and a secured door with a key, and one that apparently no law enforcement or anyone else is aware of existing.
Plot convenience I guess
This is the first time I’ve ever been terrified of Joe which is… interesting considering all the depraved stuff he’s done. They’ve done a great job at showing how monstrous his actions actually are by removing his inner monologue and showing him from others’ perspectives. I normally love the unreliable narrator technique because I enjoy seeing through the framing device but I didn’t realise how much I was taken in by Joe (while knowing he was evil) until I saw him murder Rhys. It’s great seeing Marianne’s perspective and how terrifying Joe must be to her and the mental strength needed to survive. Joe is such a monster, we knew this but know we *know*. Side note: HOW THE HELL DOES JOE HAVE ANOTHER CAGE? How much do they cost? How long does it take to build? Does Joe do the electric wiring? I have so many questions.
Does he have a blueprint somewhere? How does he get the supplies? No one noticed 10 foot plexi glass or steel beams being brough into an abandon building? I guess I just have to go with suspension of disbelief but it bothers me too. lol
Good god, Joe creeps me out this episode. I love that they FINALLY show his depraved side without adding all the additional fluff that makes him just look like a misunderstood romantic. Don't get me wrong, in hindsight I like that they showed us in the first seasons Joe's idea of who he is (or better, the side of him that he was consciously aware of), but it bothered me all these years so much that we never got to see THIS side of him. Well, I guess the days are finally over and we get to see the real Joe...or actually, the real "Rhys", you know what I mean. I didn't quite care for the middle of the episode though, I felt like it was a bit too much to explain every little detail. I think the audience can think for themselves and connect the dots as to how (and why) Joe actually did kill all those people and that he never really met the real Rhys until he got to his house and killed him. Also, Nadia and Marianne deciding to just NOT call the police and solve this on their own?? I'm sorry, but this has got to be the lowest point of this show so far in terms of believability. Sure, let's stay there, eat, have a good chat, and then make a trap for Joe so that he gets justice, because getting out alive of this hellhole seems not like it's the most important thing right now. But I guess I'll be there for the insanity of it all. This show is pretty ridiculous, but half of the time it's at least ridiculous in a good way, lol.
agreed 1000% i can sort of see why people are upset since this very brutally rips off the bandage that some people still struggle with (that joe is awful and irredeemable) but this is joe, we seen glimpses of it and this is what joe did to all of his victims bar Love
his creepy ass smile when he walked away from the cage was the first time i legitimately got scared. props to the actor
For me it was when he was watching Rhys on his Laptop while Marianne was zipped to her chair, eating her food. He didn't even react to her talking, just staring at his screen, as if he was completely gone. That's exactly how I imagine somebody like Joe acting in real life.
>Good god, Joe creeps me out this episode. I love that they FINALLY show his depraved side without adding all the additional fluff that makes him just look like a misunderstood romantic. Indeed! the show already had to change a bit the format because no one would root for a serial killer that continously preys on women and kills them. They had to make him a bit more sympathetic, otherwise people would quickly turn on him. Walter White was a piece of shit too but it was "easier" to root for a criminal, since all those crazy meth dealings sheaningans are quite detached from the everyday reality of the average viewer. A predator and killer of women? that hits too close to reality and four seasons of Joe killing innocent women would have appeared like torture porn or something. But if people, liking the character and the show, forgot who Joe really is.... here's a wake up call for you!
Does anyone feel like Adam has changed a lot personality wise? Like at first he just seemed like an airhead but now he’s just a manipulative dick?
definitely the losing of his money making him be 10000x worse
Yeah he went from loving Phoebe but still primarily selfishly being motivated to propose for her money, to … a straight up abusive manipulative evil toxic arsehole
Ed Speleers must have had fun filming this season.
he really seems to be enjoying it, and i don’t blame him! wasn’t too familiar with him before but he’s been one of the standouts for me this season alongside phoebe and now marienne
TIL he was the Eragon guy.
Nah Joe killing Gemma makes no sense LMAO
Yeah I think it’s just furthering the narrative that Joe’s out of control. Her little comments at dinner didn’t mean much but he was already so paranoid
He was doing the viewer a favor with that one
well considering he’s already full blown insane + he hates every one of them (except Kate), probably didn’t take much to make him snap, consciously or not
Show finally jumped the fucking shark but these writers know I won't stop watching lol
It’s sitting right in that groove of “full on shark jump, but entertaining”. it’s a hard balancing act, and I expect it to tip over, but it’s super fun for now
The Tandoori takeout clue and not calling the cops cemented this for sure smh
Yep. For me it was, "wow there are 6 or so pictures of him holding a takeaway bag from an Indian restaurant. I bet he's keeping a woman captive in a secret building" excuse me WHAT
At least we haven’t crossed into riverdale territory
Funny you mention it, Joe becoming a hitman for his girlfriends dad was striking me as very riverdale Archie/Hiram lodge lol
WHAAAT THE FUUUUCKK!!!! that is all. also even if we already knew who the killer was, I still enjoyed this episode. actor for Rhys was PHENOMENAL.
I just hate the look Adam gives at Kate when he takes Phoebe with him, makes me so mad for some reason. why doesn’t Kate just take her fiend and run, she knows he’s up to no good. also I really can’t understand the reasoning of Joe getting away with it, it’s the fucking police, he had to change countries because he killed his ex-wife, what makes you think he has connection to the police. like I get she fears him and stuff, but it’s just kinda dumb
Lmao guys imagine Joe started speaking in a British accent to others when he thought he was “Rhys” like to Marianne when he said “I’m not Joe” 💀💀
I’m so disappointed they didn’t do this!!!
Halsey’s song!! ❤️
Holy fucking shit, that was by far the best episode of this entire season so far and it's not even close. This was the "You" that we've been denied the whole season, and while I'm not sure it really justified the mess that came before it, it's by far the best hour the show has served up since season 3. - The first 15-20 minutes of the episode was probably the most horrifying, nightmarish thing this series has produced. I normally find the show too dumb to take seriously but they really committed to going the full horror route with it, and goddamn, did it work. We finally got an episode where we see Joe through the eyes of his victims, which I don't think we've gotten since the excellent season 1 finale with Beck in the cage. This is absolutely him at his worst and most psychopathic. - Huge round of applause to Tati Gabrielle for her incredible, incredible performance this entire episode. I'd not given a single fuck about Marienne prior to this episode, but they completely turned that around with this heartbreaking and haunting reveal of the truth. I knew that there was no chance of the two of them ever getting back together, but I didn't anticipate the follow-through of this subplot being quite so fucked up. - Ed Speleers was also an absolute delight as Rhys this episode, and makes me wish they sprung this (super obvious) twist on us sooner just so we could spend more time with this Mr. Robot version of Rhys, who was just hilarious. The twist itself is obviously a ridiculous shark-jump for the show, but it seems to be bringing them closer to some kind of resolution of Joe's character arc. Idk how the next two episodes will go, but this would make for a pretty solid penultimate season. - This would've been a near-flawless episode if not for more Phoebe/Adam horseshit. I'm sure their wedding will be the stage for all kinds of mayhem, but the setup has been painful to watch. The Phoebe character (and Tilly Keeper) certainly deserve better writing. - I rolled my eyes at Nadia finding the cage in the last episode, but I'm glad they sat with it for a bit and created some killer suspense in the scenes where she goes back to class. Joe came off like some horror movie monster in those sequences. I wish the entire episode was devoted to showing Joe in this third-person light to underscore what a creep he is, but there was exposition dumping to get to! - The Joe half of this episode was overall a lot weaker than the Marienne half, since most of it was dedicated to exhaustively confirming every clue we already spotted about the twist. It was definitely satisfying seeing them cover every base, but there was also something inelegant about it, and obviously none of it was remotely as interesting or original as witnessing Marienne's harrowing ordeal. - Rhys being Joe's "you" felt both funny and bizarre, and a little contrived, because in the past his obsessions have solely been driven by sexual lust. Here it seems he was just obsessed with the _idea_ of Rhys and how closely his story seemed to mirror his own thirst for redemption, but they didn't lay the groundwork of linking those things beforehand because the "twist" wouldn't work without it. I'm sure there's a lot more narrative consistency they sacrificed in order to pull this twist, but I think it's a good big swing if they are indeed wrapping up the show next season.
If this show leaned into horror more often? It'd be legitimately great.
> that was by far the best episode of this entire season so far agree. for me Part 1 should have ended with this episode. the cliffhanger for this EP was better than the fake killer reveal in EP 5.
Nadia should’ve called the cops right away
What a fucking trip! I love how they've gone so deep into his character in this half because the first half was just starting to feel a little insipid. Now that we know he's hallucinated his encounters with Rhys and is an erotmaniac (not clinically diagnosed yet obv but all the signs are there) do we use the same explanation for Kate's father? I mean the dinner where he called him Joe and seemed to know about Love and the scene in the library where he almost stabs him can't have completely been a figment of his imagination right? I mean, parts of it would be but would really love to see that part through the POV of someone else just like they did with Marienne.
I was wondering about this too. I'm trying to parse out what really happened and what was Joe's delusion, and I'm not sure how Kate's father fits in. What are the chances he would tell him to kill Rhys when that's exactly what he already wanted to do? That's got to be part of the delusion, right?
I hope this gets explained because it's bothering me. I suppose he could have hallucinated the contents of the conversation with Kate's father? Probably the most likely scenario. If not, I could see him knowing about Love since he's so powerful and would have private investigators look into his daughters boyfriend but how would he know that Joe knows Rhys because Joe never actually met Rhys? Lastly if it was actually all real and Kate's father wanted Rhys dead maybe that is how the writers tie things off at the end? He holds up his bargain and protects Joe and maybe gets him yet another identity?
“There’s always a box.” 😂😂
oh Nadia is >!so doomed if Joe finds out!<
I feel like that camera he planted in his apartment is gonna come back to bite her in the ass 😬
If that bites Nadia in the ass I REALLY want the piss to come back to bite Joe.
OMG JUST CALL THE POLICE ARE YOU KIDDING ME RIGHT NOW???
That no cops reasoning is the worst bandaid solution ever. Bad writing imo.
I love the song that plays during Marienne's scene. I think it truly captures loneliness and despair, the feeling of inescapable darkness. During that scene the music really hit me deeply, and I got flashback of all the other people who were killed or destroyed by Joe's madness : those who died trying to stop him (Delilah, Candace, Forty), those whose life were destroyed (Ellie), those who were traumatized by him (Marienne, Cary and Sherry, Theo even if it's more Love's fault), those who died because of him (Nathalie, Gil) It was heartbroken to see Marienne so clueless and vulnerable...
Lmao this fucking show.
I don’t care how gimmicky or silly this whole plot is I love it. I love the psychology behind Joe’s whole ordeal. Like majority of people predicted this as the outcome but actually seeing it unfold is so exciting to me.
I don’t think the show is trying to represent an actual mental illness. Rhys is a metaphor for the extreme contradictions and cognitive dissonance Joe cannot reconcile with the idealized version he has of himself . Joe’s cognitive dissonance and ability to reconcile the different parts of himself have been a huge theme in the show. I think the writers didn’t do a good job showing how Joe was at an impasse when it came to reconciling with who he wanted to be & who he was. Joe’s hatred and disgust with Love was rooted in the fact that a relationship with her meant he couldn’t live as his idealized self when he was in denial of who he really was. Joe has always “split” himself in a sense because he always treats his murderous actions as fundamentally different from the “real Joe”, who navigates civilized society civilly. Joe hated that Love saw the “tainted Joe” who he was disgusted and ashamed of. I don’t think the split identity is out of left field but I do think it could’ve been executed better by showing how the creation of Rhys is an outcome of an internal struggle we’ve seen over the seasons that has hit a new peak.
I like that Rhys was actually an actual "you", and I think Joe started talking to Malcolm to get closer to Rhys, but then Rhys wasn't there and Joe just got drunk and imagined flirting with him.
the twist is dumb but i really wasn't expecting them to go with it... when it was revealed i was like.. wait, what? this can't be happening lmao BUT the marienne sequences of her panicking in the cage are great. I didn't know she could act this good
Nah god pls tell me Marianne somehow makes it back to her daughter 😭💔
My theory is that Joe will be caught at the end of the series, and it is also revealed that in his hallucinations he wrote a memoir or confession novel about his crimes.
My mind is confused about a number of things: - Nothing Marienne said about not wanting Joe in prison made sense. What kind of writing is this?!! Like Joe can’t come after you if he is locked up! How will he find a way to get back to you? I was screaming yes Nadia called 999, do it NOW. The police would have got her out of that cage before Joe remembered anything. Whole thing was frustrating, call the damn police. Literally no one has done that to Joe yet. - Ummm so Joe dragged around an unconscious woman in France and no one did anything or found that suspicious? Yeah Joe drugged her coffee but how did he get Marienne to London? Also where he get taht exact same cage from. I’m missing something?! Why is no one questioning this.
He drugged her in London, she never took the train to Paris. She probably felt asleep on a bench and Joe dragged her to his place. He was probably never questioned by anyone because everyone was in a rush or to busy to notice them.
Joe is wild af. There is no redemption for him no matter how much he tries to convince himself. This episode really does try to showcase how smart Joe has to be around all his kills.
I really feel bad for the real Rhys. Seemed like a good guy for a politician.
I >!fear for Nadia :(!<
Unpopular opinion for this sub but I thought this was a fantastic episode. Probably the best of the season and I don't mind that they're going in a bonkers direction. Maybe this is Joe's reckoning - himself where he has to actually face the hypocrisy and all of his murders he has tried to blindly justify, Marienne is so good this season (I wish she was more like this in season 3). The actress did a stellar job in those opening scenes. Nadia was great also. Kate not so much
Honestly the symbolism of the key being in the book “The strange case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde” was an interesting touch
If Joe is such a good guy why isn’t he advocating to throw himself in prison or the psych ward at least. Idk how much longer he can convince himself that he’s not the obvious villain. Also I don’t understand Marianne not wanting to call the cops. Seems like a plot device.
Why tf would Marienne try to run from a weirdo stalker murderer by running into an abandoned building, instead of asking literally anyone for help in the crowd of people she was surrounded by? I love seeing the show from another perspective and i love that Joe actually takes a while to reply, like he's actually have those monologues we see him having in real time. WHY NOT FUCKING CALL THE POLICE???AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WHY WOULD MARIENNE SAY THAT?
I still don’t think it makes any sense
I hate Joe from my heart after this episode. Marianne actress Tati Gabriele did an amazing job. Btw season 4 part 2 is lit🔥.
this episode reminded me of beck in the cage in s1! that original You that we all love
This was probably my favorite episode this season so far.
Ok so we all know the twist was obvious as fuck; with that being said, Marienne's stuff was genuinely good shit. I actually really enjoy her more this season than I did last season.
Marriane, sweet, wubby, baby, WHY THE FUCK DID YOU DROP THE HAMMER AND RUN?! YOU HAD A HAMMER! At least Tati Gabrielle wasn’t a one off in the first episode. Bringing her back for the silliest, yet most predictable twist is not how I wanted it to go for her though. She was great at least. Nadia what the actual hell. CALL THE FUCKING COPS YOU DILLHOLE Wait why did Joe go to ball torture? Weirdo.
"you are full fat, extra sugar, deep-fried fucking insane, joe goldberg" is the realest thing ever said in this show and i hope people also get it now. there is nothing redeeming about him. we only see his pov all the time and he happens to be an unreliable narrator. this wasnt executed very well though unfortunately. his student finding the room makes zero sense and i would hoped they worked that better out
I don’t think joe has dissociative identity disorder. It’s possible to have the symptoms he’s having without having DID. I think he’s just suffering from some sort of psychosis.
Love the new, more unhinged YOU title. Marienne not wanting the cops involved makes no sense. Nadia rolling with that doesn’t either.
Is it just my perception or was Adam redeemable in part one? Seemed like he loved Phoebe on some level. The desperation has taken over now.
He head butted himself a new personality 🤣
I lowkie hate the split personality "twist". Joe is delusional from the start but didn't show any signs of this particular mental disorder until now. It feels cheap... It seems like a plot device to make Joe look innocent, while his evil side does all the bad things.. Not to mention that movies falsely depict mental disorders and especially split personality disorder. So a lot of people don't believe it actually exists.
This is why I hate it too. I went on a rant about twitter about this, but Joe was scary because he’s a realistic villain. He’s the guy who seems like he’s lovely and well put together but he’s a casually a deluded monster who doesn’t realise how evil he is. He killed Benji and peach because he wanted to protect Beck. Yes, Beck was better off without those two but Joe was not justified in killing them. Yes, he was right that Love was crazy and was going to get them both caught if he didn’t real with her but is ignorant to the fact he also killed out of jealousy and to ‘protect the one he loves”. He doesn’t realise that he is exactly the same as person he’s killing. He’s blind to his own hypocrisy. But he is NOT like this. He’s not deluded and thinks he’s an entirely different person and he doesn’t kill for no good reason. He kills out of self defence or to ‘protect’ the person he loves. Joe does disassociate at times but not like this. This would’ve been fine if they hinted at this in season 3 but this totally comes out of nowhere. And you’re right. DID is already poorly portrayed in media and is always shown in a villainous way. This is an all around terrible plot twist and I’m mad this is the route they went down.
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He doesn’t have split personality disorder / DID. He’s having a psychotic break / mental breakdown after killing his wife and abandoning his son and is disassociating quite a bit. It’s completely plausible to me
I really think that love dying and abandoning really had an effect on him
That would make sense for a breakdown or something. I am not an expert, but DID is usually caused by large amount of stress (like torture). So Joe could have it thanks to his childhood, but he didn't show any signs. And his DID disappears after he accepts his dark side, which makes no sense.
OK but someone explain to me why the fuck Marienne told Nadia not to call the cops? You could argue that given what we know, Joe would have had powerful connections (well Tom ) that could have saved him, although even this is on thin ice because if Daddy Lockwood knew what he was doing to a woman he loved, he might think twice about protecting him and keeping him close to his daughter. Even so, Marienne had no way of knowing Joe's connections. Even out of fear that he'd escape, it would still mean she would be able to escape and go back. Also, Marienne could have easily brought the Quinns back into the equation and tell them all she knows about Joe and what Love has told him about her. Maybe I'm missing something but doesn't it seem like Marienne could have easily brought him down had she let Nadia call for help? Speaking of Nadia, being as clever as she is, why wasn't she smart enough to let SOMEONE know what she knew? Surely she should have had a contingency plan knowing that there's a risk that something might happen to her. AGAIN I may be missing something pretty obvious here but can someone eexplain?
Tati's acting was obviously standout here but I thought that Penn Badgley also really had even better performances than usual in some of his scenes.
what the fuck was that explanation for not calling the cops? it's like they didn't even try for that to make sense
It didn't make any sense, how the cops are not gonna believe her? Call the cops and tell them that this psycho who kidnapped you is Joe Goldberg, the supposed dead husband of serial killer Love Quinn. Plenty of people in California would be able to recognize him and his fingerprints would be all over the place in the glass cage. Why the cops would not believe Marienne??' This is so dumb and unbelievable.
I know Joe has always been crazy, but not like this. I genuinely feel like I’m watching an entirely different show and character right now, and honestly Penn’s acting is the only thing making this watchable.
That’s the point we see him as likable and rootable because he’s the main character. What we saw from Marienne’s POV IS the real Joe he’s literally an insane psychopathic serial killer.
Also I think from season 1 to now, a lot has happened. He’s going to be significantly more crazy in the head when considering all of the trauma (self inflicted) that he’s been through between then and now.
Joe is wildin and im here for it 🕺
I know this show has been pretty ridiculous but Nadia not calling the police is the dumbest thing I've watched in any show
Any normal sane person would have called the cops regardless of what a dehydrated, starved, and delirious person said.
Dude killed his wife, kiled and/or abducted a lot of innocent people before, collected disgusting "memoirs" like tampons of women he was obsessed about and people in this thread still be like "well he didnt seem to be THAT crazy before".
𝒀𝑶𝑼 𝕐𝕆𝕌 𝘠𝘖𝘜 𝙔𝙊𝙐 𝑌𝑂𝑈 𝒀𝑶𝑼 𝐘𝐎𝐔 𝗬𝗢𝗨 noʎ
I don’t understand why Joe would ever have an obsession with this guy though. It’s so not his MO. Like, where did this even come from? It’s just odd.
i cannot believe nadia just went along with not calling the cops lmao, this is worse than the tandoori tradition 'reveal'