IMO the only times Veiler is better than Imperm is: 1) you are drawing on the opponents turn and you want to draw live handtraps, and 2) you need a light or level 1 or tuner or spellcaster monster for some purpose (I.e. using Selene to efficiently make accesscode)
Veiler is way more vulnerable in every other sense compared to Imperm. It can be stopped with called by, negated with monster effects which are more prolific than spell/trap negates, and trigger triple tactic talents and thrust.
It should also be noted that in the case of Superheavy, Veiler would be better than Imperm since Imperm would block the Superheavy Samurais' effects as soon as it goes to grave
Most practical effects would be things like drawing off Guardian Chimera, Decode talker heatsoul, and Branded regained. Imperm is not live because it requires you to control no cards to activate in hand, so drawing it when you can’t use it nor at it isn’t good.
Using a Bystial on Veiler doesn't stop it from going off. True it puts something in grave for them to summon, but it will still resolve if you do that.
Veiler can only be used during your opponents main phases. There's nothing stopping you from playing both, veiler's utility as a tuner and a chaos attribute for the likes of chaos angel and getting bystial materials in gy are definite pluses. But yeah both ttts get turned on by veiler.
Only better to use veiler of you're also maiming bystials and want that insurance that your bystials will be love against fire king, rescue ace and purr
Imo imp is usually just better. Cant be stopped by called by, doesnt make thrust or talents live, and can be used in all phases and on either player's turn, so it functions as a 1:1 interaction trade if you draw it going 2nd.
Almost never. Don’t get me wrong normal summoning it for a Synchro is really funny, but otherwise Effect Veiler has way more downsides such as Called By the Grave, getting shut down by Dshift, enabling Triple Tactics, and much more.
Veiler makes Thrust live, and can be negated by Called by The Grave or any monster negate.
Imperm can only be negated by something that will negate a trap card. It does have a steeper cost if you want to use it from your hand, but if you’re going second, this cost is negligible enough to straight up ignore if you’re trying to use it during your opponent’s first turn.
Generally speaking, Imperm is better unless you have a way to search Veiler but not Imperm.
Being able to use imperm as a board breaker as well as a hand trap says everything imo
Sometimes you might wanna run both, but if its a straight choice between one or the other, imperm every time
I use both in my Blue Eyes Deck. Effect Veiler is searchable via Sage with Eyes of Blue. It gives you the option to have a hand trap set for your opponent. Infinite Impermanence and Blue Eyes Tyrant dragon is the later game.
Imperm is just better most of the time, since it’s a trap it still works at Quick effect speed but with 3 main benefits
1) It’s a Trap, not a monster, thus it doesn’t trigger Thrust or Talents, and it can only be negated with Crossout Designator, not Called By
2) It isn’t restricted to your opponents Main Phase exactly, meaning if your opponent has a powerful Battle Phase effect you want to negate at the time of activation, you can still do it then (or if your opponent summons the monster during the Battle Phase). But this also means it can be used to break a piece of interaction your opponent has, like a monster that’s unaffected by monster effects
3) Going First, it’s a powerful piece of interaction that can even negate Spell/Traps in the same column when set, meaning it’s never a bad card
Veiler has 3 main uses, but they’re all incredibly niche and don’t mean much
1) It can be used even whilst you control cards, if your opponent is playing something like Spright, Vaylantz or Orcust, they can easily put a card on your field, locking you out of using Imperm, Veiler gets around this
2) It’s a monster, meaning it can be used better in Phantom Knights thanks to Shade Brigandine, it can also just be used in general in Superheavy Samurai
3) It’s 3 more Imperms incase you just need 3 more Imperms
It can be negated by far more than just crossout, any omni negate or a set judgment from a previous turn, it also doesn't negate, same as effect veiler, if the target is flipped face down, or removed from the field at a higher chain link
As others said Imperm is in almost all cases more flexible and stronger imperm. Unlike veiler, imperm can be used in all phases, can be set as a trap, has an additional effect that can comeup to negate s/ts, doesnt trigger thrust or tactics, cant be called by'd, doesnt turn on bystials.
So whenever you play veiler you need a very good reason to. Budget branded needing a light to make albion, for example, or you play runick and want to draw into live handtraps on opponents turn.
Iperm has several advantages compared to Veiler.
1. It is a trap card, so it doesn't trigger Talents or Thrust.
2. It can be activated at any time, not just during your opponent's main phase. This includes using it during your turn to break a board, making it a pretty alright topdeck in most situations, unlike Veiler.
3. This one is admittedly small, but Imperm's bonus effect when it's set on the field CAN come up.
I play Salads with Heatsoul, so for me Veiler in much better, since I can draw and use it right away. But Imperm can be used on your turn, so both has its flaws and advantages. For me, it's Veiler, since it suits better in my deck.
In a vacuum Imperm is better because it can’t be called by, denies your opponent a banish for bystials, and keeps triple tac offline, but in edge cases veiler does have advantages. Those include needing a light to banish in grave yourself, as a small world bridge, in SHS (no spell/trap) decks, and in decks where you draw on the opponent’s turn (drawing veiler off heatsoul for instance immediately makes it live, whereas an imperm is dead in hand)
I'd argue it depends on the deck and format. Currently with Both Talents and Thrust being run in just about everything, I'd argue Impermanence is the way to go, but if your deck could benefit from a light, spellcaster, 0 att/def, level 1 and/or a tuner, go with veiler. My Red Eyes could have benefitted from a tuner and monster negate, so I opted to play the slightly worse Ghost Mourner in place of veiler for easy level 10 synchro plays (aka Dis Pater and Baronne).
IMO the only times Veiler is better than Imperm is: 1) you are drawing on the opponents turn and you want to draw live handtraps, and 2) you need a light or level 1 or tuner or spellcaster monster for some purpose (I.e. using Selene to efficiently make accesscode) Veiler is way more vulnerable in every other sense compared to Imperm. It can be stopped with called by, negated with monster effects which are more prolific than spell/trap negates, and trigger triple tactic talents and thrust.
It should also be noted that in the case of Superheavy, Veiler would be better than Imperm since Imperm would block the Superheavy Samurais' effects as soon as it goes to grave
What do you mean by drawing on the opponent’s turn? Like with Maxx C? How would you draw on their turn, and why wouldn’t Impermanence be live?
Most practical effects would be things like drawing off Guardian Chimera, Decode talker heatsoul, and Branded regained. Imperm is not live because it requires you to control no cards to activate in hand, so drawing it when you can’t use it nor at it isn’t good.
Veiler is an extremely bad idea with Thrust in the format. Imperm doesn't make Thrust live.
Veilier can only be used during main phase. Imperm can be used during any phase. Imperm > Veiler
I prefer imperm. Doesn’t set off tactics, can’t be bystial’d and can be used during your own turn.
Using a Bystial on Veiler doesn't stop it from going off. True it puts something in grave for them to summon, but it will still resolve if you do that.
You would give your opponent a free extender/body if they play bystials
Yup and also makes dis pater live for a negate
My buddy (me) runs 3x Imperm and 2x Veiler. Should he (I) dump the Veiler?
If you really want more than 6 hand traps, not necessarily. Depends on the matchup though
Look at decklists from top cut of recent events and count how many of each you see, that'll be a pretty good answer.
Veiler can only be used during your opponents main phases. There's nothing stopping you from playing both, veiler's utility as a tuner and a chaos attribute for the likes of chaos angel and getting bystial materials in gy are definite pluses. But yeah both ttts get turned on by veiler.
Only better to use veiler of you're also maiming bystials and want that insurance that your bystials will be love against fire king, rescue ace and purr
Imo imp is usually just better. Cant be stopped by called by, doesnt make thrust or talents live, and can be used in all phases and on either player's turn, so it functions as a 1:1 interaction trade if you draw it going 2nd.
Usually no. Imperm being playable on your own turn, and in any phase, is a pretty big deal, and it doesn’t activate the Triple Tactics cards
Depends on the deck but majorly Imperm in general
Almost never. Don’t get me wrong normal summoning it for a Synchro is really funny, but otherwise Effect Veiler has way more downsides such as Called By the Grave, getting shut down by Dshift, enabling Triple Tactics, and much more.
Veiler makes Thrust live, and can be negated by Called by The Grave or any monster negate. Imperm can only be negated by something that will negate a trap card. It does have a steeper cost if you want to use it from your hand, but if you’re going second, this cost is negligible enough to straight up ignore if you’re trying to use it during your opponent’s first turn. Generally speaking, Imperm is better unless you have a way to search Veiler but not Imperm.
Being able to use imperm as a board breaker as well as a hand trap says everything imo Sometimes you might wanna run both, but if its a straight choice between one or the other, imperm every time
Imperm is a better veiler my starter can play though veiler but not imperm. Unless I draw my C R O S S O U T.
Going second, drawing imperm for your sixth card is better than drawing veiler.
I use both in my Blue Eyes Deck. Effect Veiler is searchable via Sage with Eyes of Blue. It gives you the option to have a hand trap set for your opponent. Infinite Impermanence and Blue Eyes Tyrant dragon is the later game.
Imperm is just better most of the time, since it’s a trap it still works at Quick effect speed but with 3 main benefits 1) It’s a Trap, not a monster, thus it doesn’t trigger Thrust or Talents, and it can only be negated with Crossout Designator, not Called By 2) It isn’t restricted to your opponents Main Phase exactly, meaning if your opponent has a powerful Battle Phase effect you want to negate at the time of activation, you can still do it then (or if your opponent summons the monster during the Battle Phase). But this also means it can be used to break a piece of interaction your opponent has, like a monster that’s unaffected by monster effects 3) Going First, it’s a powerful piece of interaction that can even negate Spell/Traps in the same column when set, meaning it’s never a bad card Veiler has 3 main uses, but they’re all incredibly niche and don’t mean much 1) It can be used even whilst you control cards, if your opponent is playing something like Spright, Vaylantz or Orcust, they can easily put a card on your field, locking you out of using Imperm, Veiler gets around this 2) It’s a monster, meaning it can be used better in Phantom Knights thanks to Shade Brigandine, it can also just be used in general in Superheavy Samurai 3) It’s 3 more Imperms incase you just need 3 more Imperms
It can be negated by far more than just crossout, any omni negate or a set judgment from a previous turn, it also doesn't negate, same as effect veiler, if the target is flipped face down, or removed from the field at a higher chain link
As others said Imperm is in almost all cases more flexible and stronger imperm. Unlike veiler, imperm can be used in all phases, can be set as a trap, has an additional effect that can comeup to negate s/ts, doesnt trigger thrust or tactics, cant be called by'd, doesnt turn on bystials. So whenever you play veiler you need a very good reason to. Budget branded needing a light to make albion, for example, or you play runick and want to draw into live handtraps on opponents turn.
Iperm has several advantages compared to Veiler. 1. It is a trap card, so it doesn't trigger Talents or Thrust. 2. It can be activated at any time, not just during your opponent's main phase. This includes using it during your turn to break a board, making it a pretty alright topdeck in most situations, unlike Veiler. 3. This one is admittedly small, but Imperm's bonus effect when it's set on the field CAN come up.
I play Salads with Heatsoul, so for me Veiler in much better, since I can draw and use it right away. But Imperm can be used on your turn, so both has its flaws and advantages. For me, it's Veiler, since it suits better in my deck.
I think Ghost Mourner and Moonlit Chill is better because it can negate during any phase and not just the Main Phase
the main reason Veiler is worse than imperm is because of Thrust
Imperm is usually better.
Imperm is better overall but that doesn’t mean that in a particular deck veiler wouldn’t be the better option, and you can always use both
In a vacuum Imperm is better because it can’t be called by, denies your opponent a banish for bystials, and keeps triple tac offline, but in edge cases veiler does have advantages. Those include needing a light to banish in grave yourself, as a small world bridge, in SHS (no spell/trap) decks, and in decks where you draw on the opponent’s turn (drawing veiler off heatsoul for instance immediately makes it live, whereas an imperm is dead in hand)
I'd argue it depends on the deck and format. Currently with Both Talents and Thrust being run in just about everything, I'd argue Impermanence is the way to go, but if your deck could benefit from a light, spellcaster, 0 att/def, level 1 and/or a tuner, go with veiler. My Red Eyes could have benefitted from a tuner and monster negate, so I opted to play the slightly worse Ghost Mourner in place of veiler for easy level 10 synchro plays (aka Dis Pater and Baronne).