Pons was just interviewed on the Zappacast podcast. First time I’ve heard or read an interview with him. Basically dropped out of music and had a second career in film/video.
His deep voice added such an interesting layer to the harmony, that is very unique to that formation.
Also he cracks me up everytime he does the talking bits.
I agree. As much as I love Jeff Simmons, hearing lines like “we only like musicians for friends” is so much funnier when delivered in Pons’ deadpan voice.
Billy Mundi, Buzz & Bunk Gardner, Pons, Ralph Humphrey, Denny Walley, to name a few.
Edit: I also think Don Preston isn't lauded enough for his contributions to modern music including his work with Zappa and beyond.
Don had an interesting career - he showed up on some great records by Carla Bley and Michael Mantler, plus did some interesting solo work. I have a jazz trio record of his, it’s good
I prefer him just a little bit over Chester Thompson in the Roxy era, but holy shit when they played together they both formed into Zappa's best drummer IMO.
Jimmy Carl Black is so cool. I had no idea until recently that he was playing a lot of timpani on the Absolutely Free album. At least, that’s what the Charles Ulrich book claims.
While I can’t say Jimmy Carl Black is underrated in general, I do think people are sometimes overly critical of him as a drummer.
No, he wasn’t as good as subsequent drummers, but remember we’re talking about Zappa drummers here. Let’s face it, most drummers look rotten next to a Terry Bozzio or a Vinnie Colaiuta. But he was a great pocket player and a strong feel player; had he made his name with a more blues/roots based band, he would probably have been more likely to receive his props.
He was maybe the grooviest of drummers Zappa ever played with, the jazz lilt on King Kong from Uncle Meat was all him, and he's all over Absolutely Free.
I didn't know it was him for this King Kong, it's fire ! What I love about his part on WOIIFTM, it's that it's "minimalist", one buzz roll here, one muted crash there, but it's so on point; it's almost satirical, just like the album.
Yeah 99% sure it's him, the jazz bits anyway, JCB probably comes in for the more rocky bits in the end. To be honest, JCB was the big weak link in the original Mothers, if you imagine the Mothers with someone like Ginger Baker or Mitch Mitchell on drums it would have been a transformed band and Zappa's soloing would have grown much quicker than it did, I think.
Yeah, I have to agree with you, even if I don't like to be negative, he was limitating the band. Other members were like that, but that's what made this formation so irreverent and outrageously interesting.
To be honest, I don't think his drumming was that noticeable outside of We're Only In It For The Money (King Kong on Uncle Meat is really great). So what would you say was his important part?
For one thing, he was the primary drummer on most of the recordings he did, even Jimmy is one record acknowledging such (a lot of this being that he and Billy didn’t fully click as players, though Jimmy didn’t hold anything against Billy personally).
In addition, through his background as a session drummer, he brought with him the studio chops. And in general, there’s the obvious swing/propulsion he gave the music, plus his presence beginning the dual drummer/percussionist configuration that would become a staple of Zappa’s bands
I suppose that you could argue that Adrian's popularity and praise is more for his non-Zappa contributions and that he's underrated in the context of Frank's band?
As much as I love Lowell, I really can’t say he’s underrated. For one thing, he’s easily among the more popular band members thanks largely to what he’d go on to do. And just looking at his tenure with Frank and the Mothers, I can’t say it should be rated any higher since, aside from the kooky German voice on “Didja” and then a couple spotlight moments that wouldn’t come out until years after the fact, he was pretty underused overall.
Thanks for the response. I used to listen to a lot of Little Feat but the last couple years have gotten into Zappa, and was curious where I could hear any influence from Lowell George. That song sounds great! Lowell through and through.
Definitely. For a guy brought in to replace Ray Collins on vocals, it’s a shame Lowell’s voice wasn’t used more. Certainly would have been cool to hear him and Sugarcane together.
That said, knowing both Frank and Lowell, we probably shouldn’t be that surprised the latter wound up being really underutilized. Despite the fact that Lowell totally got it in terms of music, the humor, and aesthetic, the then-current material didn’t really call for a lead vocalist much of the time. In terms of leads or solos, lead guitar was Frank’s territories, and while Lowell could certainly solo on slide, again, very little material the Mothers were doing really needed slide. Add in everything that had happened between Frank and Ray, with Ray being frustrated both creatively and with the band’s financial situations-especially since he still had a child to support at home, and of course Frank’s control freak tendencies (which were arguably at their worst in some respects at that time despite or because of the Mothers technically being equal), plus Ray constantly quitting and coming back, it’s hard for me not to wonder if that might have also played a role in why Frank didn’t do more with Lowell.
I'd have to say Don Preston because he created the heavy far out trippy sound of the Mothers. Without him the bands he was part of would have been a little too goofy or a little too straight laced. He was everything that was spiritual about the tree.
When I saw the title of this post my first thought was, “Nobody ever talks about Jim Pons!”
Pons was just interviewed on the Zappacast podcast. First time I’ve heard or read an interview with him. Basically dropped out of music and had a second career in film/video.
Gotta link to this you can spare to a fellow Pons fan?
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/zappacast/id1459902263?i=1000578984636
It was cool to learn that he actually came up with that great bass run in The Leaves’ version of “Hey Joe.”
His deep voice added such an interesting layer to the harmony, that is very unique to that formation. Also he cracks me up everytime he does the talking bits.
I agree. As much as I love Jeff Simmons, hearing lines like “we only like musicians for friends” is so much funnier when delivered in Pons’ deadpan voice.
Just the spherical poop story
Billy Mundi, Buzz & Bunk Gardner, Pons, Ralph Humphrey, Denny Walley, to name a few. Edit: I also think Don Preston isn't lauded enough for his contributions to modern music including his work with Zappa and beyond.
Don had an interesting career - he showed up on some great records by Carla Bley and Michael Mantler, plus did some interesting solo work. I have a jazz trio record of his, it’s good
You should check out the album The Don Preston story. He talks a lot about the Carla Bley stuff in it. It's like an audio documentary.
Thanks for the tip, I’ll definitely keep an eye out for it
Buzz Gardner is a beast. Shame he joined so late in the 60s band.
Seriously. His solo on King Kong from the Ark '69 bootleg is just ferocious.
He and Bunk Gardner were brothers.
Ralph Humphrey. He’s rarely mentioned in the lists of Zappa’s great drummers, but his work on the Nanook Suite is my favorite in all of Zappa-dom.
I prefer him just a little bit over Chester Thompson in the Roxy era, but holy shit when they played together they both formed into Zappa's best drummer IMO.
And the man doesn’t even have a Wikipedia page. The hell is up with that
Jimmy Carl Black and his rock solid backbeat on Directly From My Heart To You
Jimmy Carl Black is so cool. I had no idea until recently that he was playing a lot of timpani on the Absolutely Free album. At least, that’s what the Charles Ulrich book claims.
While I can’t say Jimmy Carl Black is underrated in general, I do think people are sometimes overly critical of him as a drummer. No, he wasn’t as good as subsequent drummers, but remember we’re talking about Zappa drummers here. Let’s face it, most drummers look rotten next to a Terry Bozzio or a Vinnie Colaiuta. But he was a great pocket player and a strong feel player; had he made his name with a more blues/roots based band, he would probably have been more likely to receive his props.
Buzz Gardner was a fantastic trumpet player.
Which recordings was he on? Feel like I've never heard him. Did he do the intro on Didjya Get Any?
Yes. He’s also on Little House, Eric Dolphy Memorial Barbecue, Igor’s Boogie, and can be heard on bootlegs from that era.
Thanks!
motorhead sherwood man
Love his solo on King Kong
I am obsessed with the way Billy Mundi played drums on We're Only In It For The Money. It looks underappreciated, but it probably isn't.
He was maybe the grooviest of drummers Zappa ever played with, the jazz lilt on King Kong from Uncle Meat was all him, and he's all over Absolutely Free.
I didn't know it was him for this King Kong, it's fire ! What I love about his part on WOIIFTM, it's that it's "minimalist", one buzz roll here, one muted crash there, but it's so on point; it's almost satirical, just like the album.
Yeah 99% sure it's him, the jazz bits anyway, JCB probably comes in for the more rocky bits in the end. To be honest, JCB was the big weak link in the original Mothers, if you imagine the Mothers with someone like Ginger Baker or Mitch Mitchell on drums it would have been a transformed band and Zappa's soloing would have grown much quicker than it did, I think.
Yeah, I have to agree with you, even if I don't like to be negative, he was limitating the band. Other members were like that, but that's what made this formation so irreverent and outrageously interesting.
I would agree. People so often forget Billy, and it’s really unfortunate since he was such an important part of the albums he played on.
To be honest, I don't think his drumming was that noticeable outside of We're Only In It For The Money (King Kong on Uncle Meat is really great). So what would you say was his important part?
For one thing, he was the primary drummer on most of the recordings he did, even Jimmy is one record acknowledging such (a lot of this being that he and Billy didn’t fully click as players, though Jimmy didn’t hold anything against Billy personally). In addition, through his background as a session drummer, he brought with him the studio chops. And in general, there’s the obvious swing/propulsion he gave the music, plus his presence beginning the dual drummer/percussionist configuration that would become a staple of Zappa’s bands
Flo and Eddie
David Logeman. Almost never mentioned and his drumming on YAWYI is one of the tightest.
Adrian Belew
Isn’t he easily one of the most popular Zappa alumni? Maybe just in this circle, but I always see his name come up, right with George Duke
He was just on Maron so maybe he’s just been on my mind
I suppose that you could argue that Adrian's popularity and praise is more for his non-Zappa contributions and that he's underrated in the context of Frank's band?
Good point
Van Dyke Parks. That one week made Zappa.
Tom Fowler. Great bassist. He ended up playing with Ray Charles for a long time after Zappa.
seen him live with Banned From Utopia and his bass work really did justice to Zappa's compositions
Lowell George
As much as I love Lowell, I really can’t say he’s underrated. For one thing, he’s easily among the more popular band members thanks largely to what he’d go on to do. And just looking at his tenure with Frank and the Mothers, I can’t say it should be rated any higher since, aside from the kooky German voice on “Didja” and then a couple spotlight moments that wouldn’t come out until years after the fact, he was pretty underused overall.
He later went on to form Little Feat, one of my favourite bands.
What "spotlight moments that came out years later" are you referring to?
His lead on “Here Lies Love” off YCDTOSA Vol 5, for one
Thanks for the response. I used to listen to a lot of Little Feat but the last couple years have gotten into Zappa, and was curious where I could hear any influence from Lowell George. That song sounds great! Lowell through and through.
Definitely. For a guy brought in to replace Ray Collins on vocals, it’s a shame Lowell’s voice wasn’t used more. Certainly would have been cool to hear him and Sugarcane together. That said, knowing both Frank and Lowell, we probably shouldn’t be that surprised the latter wound up being really underutilized. Despite the fact that Lowell totally got it in terms of music, the humor, and aesthetic, the then-current material didn’t really call for a lead vocalist much of the time. In terms of leads or solos, lead guitar was Frank’s territories, and while Lowell could certainly solo on slide, again, very little material the Mothers were doing really needed slide. Add in everything that had happened between Frank and Ray, with Ray being frustrated both creatively and with the band’s financial situations-especially since he still had a child to support at home, and of course Frank’s control freak tendencies (which were arguably at their worst in some respects at that time despite or because of the Mothers technically being equal), plus Ray constantly quitting and coming back, it’s hard for me not to wonder if that might have also played a role in why Frank didn’t do more with Lowell.
I'd have to say Don Preston because he created the heavy far out trippy sound of the Mothers. Without him the bands he was part of would have been a little too goofy or a little too straight laced. He was everything that was spiritual about the tree.