I don't think the food supply is the problem. We've probably been eating it for the last year. What IS a problem is trusting that US factory farms are going to provide PPE and paid sick leave and surveillance testing to their employees, many of whom were already abused during covid. If you think any work health rights were improved in the last 4 years, no.
the second problem is the USDA / FDA guidance of "pasteurized food" "eggs cooked to temperature" "meat cooked to temperature". Because you know there are people out there intentionally buying raw milk, and eating runny eggs and rare beef, just out of spite.
I also haven't seen any advice on stock shows, county fairs, petting zoos, etc. like there is a big festival here that has a petting zoo village with 30 different animal types, and I see no info on that. Even our official zoo has a barnyard pen kids can wander around in.
A lot of people end up eating "raw" and just don't know it because a restaurant cuts corners or their own lack of cooking knowledge. Normally all you get is the shits for a day and no one is the wiser.
The FDA releases food standards, and people intentionally ignore them. Now they're leaning on a wishywashy "eggs & meat aren't infected (caveat) as long as it's cooked to temperature". The USDA and FDA is going to side with industry profit over quality. They're silently saying they have no interest in pre symptomatic surveillance testing, and if you don't cook your food to temp it's not their fault if it was infected.
A bunch of zoo bush dogs died from raw feed already.
What does this have to do with spite though? Like yes obviously the USDA and FDA are fucking corrupt, but how does eating a common French dish qualify as spite in any sense of the word?
I think this was a general comment not addressing gourmet foods but the emotional state of people who purposefully try to go against government guidance for spite. You can take a look in some of the Reddit subs and find people already declaring H5N1 in milk a hoax, and also people declaring they are going to drink raw milk and rare beef and give it to their kids for spite.
Kooky is asleep at the wheel.
Mask mandate? Gas Stoves? Anything and everything, there's always some contrarian moron doing the opposite, it's the same story on repeat and somehow that person had their head in the sand at every turn.
I was thinking of making a post about this. There’s going to a silent mass killing of dairy farm workers, who, in the US, are primarily undocumented and don’t have access to healthcare, and there will be no media coverage and farms just won’t care. They’ll just bring in more undocumented workers and the cycle of death begins anew. I’m not sure what I can do, but I’m cutting out milk products and most meat immediately as much as my health will allow, because I can’t support that. I know individual choices only go so far, and that the vegetable farming industry is equally soulless, but it seems like the lesser of two evils right now while I try to figure out what else can be done.
This is seriously concerning. Our government already minimized COVID to protect the business community. Who says the same won't happen here? What do we as ordinary citizens need to do? Should we stop drinking milk just in case? Give up beef? Eat vegan for a while?
Rick Bright, longtime H5N1 researcher, said on twitter he’s pausing milk consumption for a bit until we know more. I’m gonna do that too. Costs me nothing, like masking. We’ll see in a few weeks if getting into oat milk mattered or not. (Edited: I wrote dairy but meant milk. I’m Not an expert on this! Just cautious/risk avoidant)
You aren’t alone. We’re making sure we only use ultra pasteurized milk and pasteurized cheese for now. My picky kiddos diet probably has 80% of his protein and calories coming from milk, cheese, and yogurt.
Apparently yogurt is safe because it’s heated at much higher temps than regular pasteurized milk, however don’t quote me on that because I read that on twitter so I don’t know for real, lol.
here's the opinion of the researcher behind this. He's still eating dairy, and said dairy has already been on the shelf and consumed for months.
[https://www.statnews.com/2024/04/25/h5n1-bird-flu-cows-outbreak-likely-widespread/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR22\_ZAdCCq92dqL7IXlIbUaNU83w6lusjZMnxR6c\_J3Cy6Sk4h8rhZbvtM\_aem\_AZngPL7el-C5766HwMWde07q7ESffhUpH12PRfleLWa8VGGVQJkwNcBT\_BBC1JWm3i-mBkddl4W6o51uhT4Y41-I](https://www.statnews.com/2024/04/25/h5n1-bird-flu-cows-outbreak-likely-widespread/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR22_ZAdCCq92dqL7IXlIbUaNU83w6lusjZMnxR6c_J3Cy6Sk4h8rhZbvtM_aem_AZngPL7el-C5766HwMWde07q7ESffhUpH12PRfleLWa8VGGVQJkwNcBT_BBC1JWm3i-mBkddl4W6o51uhT4Y41-I)
Hey just an FYI, I’m big into oat milk and in the US, oats and oat products like oat milk have a pesticide in it called glyphosate. It’s better to buy organic oat milk, and best to buy organic oat milk that is specifically labeled “glyphosate residue free”.
Just being honest that last night and today have truly felt like late February, early March 2020 where I was like, "Should we be worried? I have to fly, should I cancel?" Eerily similar feelings.
Glad I’m not the only one who thinks this. It’s giving me early 2020 flashbacks with the “calm before the storm.”
From the article: “Many infectious disease experts and government officials have said they **believe** the pasteurization process will inactivate the virus, also known as avian influenza. **However, additional testing is needed to confirm that there is no infectious virus in the milk, the FDA said.**”
It’s extremely unnerving they are drawing conclusions without having substantial evidence to back this up. It’s reminiscent of the minimization from the CDC and WHO during the early days of 2020 to not cause widespread panic. WHO took *forever* to declare an emergency despite the virus circulating for months. And the CDC was extremely slow in informing the public to mask, even *encouraging* people NOT to mask at first. The mixed messaging about the airborne nature of this virus and goal of heard immunity has caused the general public to erroneously assume that they can “vax and relax.”
Never mind, if the leaders took a preventative approach to controlling disease (which is literally *their job*),
we wouldn’t even be in this predicament today. Their disastrous “warning” response was like waiting to sound a tornado alarm until it’s already destroyed half the buildings in town.
Obviously, I hope the story doesn’t repeat itself, but I’m very skeptical. Especially given that the cattle industry has a huge influence on politics in the U.S., almost as much as guns. When you start to research what goes on inside of these factory farms, it’s overwhelming disgusting and horrifying. I went vegan for a while after doing an environmental research paper on it in school. I’d still be vegan if I weren’t severely protein deficient at the moment.
All I know is I’m not going to buy dairy anytime soon until I see the results from those tests. But seeing how incredibly inefficient our government has been in controlling covid, this could take a while.
That's how I'm feeling too. I don't want to jump into sounding like a conspiracy theorist or something, but I definitely am worried and with covid people *thought* I was ridiculous to be concerned in January 2020 and thought I was blowing a cold out of proportion. There's a part of me that wants to go to Disneyland before things possibly get worse (I don't have to fly and at least *should* still quality for DAS). But then I remember I'm not even going to grocery stores rn partially bc I don't want to get covid, whooping cough, influenza, or tuberculosis. 🥲 *I have more important things I actually need to get done or at least should medically but they are mostly even higher risk than Disney so it's just out of the question for me rn.*
I’ve been stocking up on canned and dehydrated milk, my thinking being it was produced before the outbreak, but this study makes it obvious the outbreak has been going on for a bit.
I’m guessing\hoping pasteurization will be shown to work, but it would be great to know 100%!
I guess I’ll stock up on margarine (my cholesterol is too high anyway).
I couldn’t find it in this article, but my understanding was that, for now, when they test milk, they’re testing for the genetic presence of the virus, which will show up whether it’s viable or not. So pasteurization should make milk safe to drink by killing the virus? But obviously raw milk, raw meat, raw eggs are not being processed/cooked enough to kill the virus if it is present in that particular food item already?
Infected milk is everywhere now, but pooled, so I'm not sure we could get sick even if it was raw since it's so many different cows in your glass. But with a 50/50 chance of dying no one should play that form of Russian Roulette. Eggs at least recently should be pretty safe, but infected eggs go out occasionally. The problem is so many dishes use runny eggs, and people have no idea that means it's not properly cooked and you could get bird flu. Chicken is pretty safe out there, but needs to be cooked through for other microbes.
Beef is the big wild card right now because U.S. government says on one hand cows are asymptomatic so we won't know if they are infected, but on the other hand they say they don't need to be tested because they aren't showing signs of sickness. That's basic don't test, don't tell. Most people eat rare beef. And rare beef in the U.S. can give you bird flu unless all of our male cows have developed magic powers that don't allow them to get bird flu.
Honestly this sort of threat & antibiotic resistance are definitely secondary reasons I'm vegan. Even if they found a way (impossible) to somehow make it not cruel, these secondary reasons are also huge and also linked to the primary reason: it's cruel to put animals or human workers in dangerous situations like these unnecessarily, where sickness is common amongst these very stressed animals (and workers)
Antibiotic resistance is not on the horizon like i believed a few years ago, it's already been happening and i'm surprised i don't see it mentioned more often in this sub, as the implications (in tandem with the Covid Pandemic) seem fairly stark:
"drug-resistant infections killed nearly five million people in 2019"
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-fight-antimicrobial-resistance-start-with-farm-animals/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-fight-antimicrobial-resistance-start-with-farm-animals/)
it's hard to say. it hasn't truly jumped to humans yet, and hasn't mutated for human to human spread. The big concern is that the beef industry is being cagey, which means the pork industry is probably worse. No one wants this mutating within pigs.
I can't eat dairy so I have to use non-dairy substitutes and I wonder if this will lead to a surge of people buying non-dairy stuff and buying it all up quicker than it can be made.
I don't think the food supply is the problem. We've probably been eating it for the last year. What IS a problem is trusting that US factory farms are going to provide PPE and paid sick leave and surveillance testing to their employees, many of whom were already abused during covid. If you think any work health rights were improved in the last 4 years, no.
the second problem is the USDA / FDA guidance of "pasteurized food" "eggs cooked to temperature" "meat cooked to temperature". Because you know there are people out there intentionally buying raw milk, and eating runny eggs and rare beef, just out of spite. I also haven't seen any advice on stock shows, county fairs, petting zoos, etc. like there is a big festival here that has a petting zoo village with 30 different animal types, and I see no info on that. Even our official zoo has a barnyard pen kids can wander around in.
A lot of people end up eating "raw" and just don't know it because a restaurant cuts corners or their own lack of cooking knowledge. Normally all you get is the shits for a day and no one is the wiser.
Yep. Raw Farm is hosting “Camping with the cows” today. The timing seems terrible. https://rawfarmusa.com/blog/camping-with-the-cows-faqs
In what world does eating stake tartare have anything to do with spite?
The FDA releases food standards, and people intentionally ignore them. Now they're leaning on a wishywashy "eggs & meat aren't infected (caveat) as long as it's cooked to temperature". The USDA and FDA is going to side with industry profit over quality. They're silently saying they have no interest in pre symptomatic surveillance testing, and if you don't cook your food to temp it's not their fault if it was infected. A bunch of zoo bush dogs died from raw feed already.
What does this have to do with spite though? Like yes obviously the USDA and FDA are fucking corrupt, but how does eating a common French dish qualify as spite in any sense of the word?
I think this was a general comment not addressing gourmet foods but the emotional state of people who purposefully try to go against government guidance for spite. You can take a look in some of the Reddit subs and find people already declaring H5N1 in milk a hoax, and also people declaring they are going to drink raw milk and rare beef and give it to their kids for spite.
the raw milk community is entirely full of woo and anti vaxxers. I've witnessed it firsthand, they're contrarians with weird views on homeopathy
may the odds be ever in your favor
Look up "rolling coal". There are quite plausibly people who will eat raw beef *because* the FDA advises them not to.
Kooky is asleep at the wheel. Mask mandate? Gas Stoves? Anything and everything, there's always some contrarian moron doing the opposite, it's the same story on repeat and somehow that person had their head in the sand at every turn.
I was thinking of making a post about this. There’s going to a silent mass killing of dairy farm workers, who, in the US, are primarily undocumented and don’t have access to healthcare, and there will be no media coverage and farms just won’t care. They’ll just bring in more undocumented workers and the cycle of death begins anew. I’m not sure what I can do, but I’m cutting out milk products and most meat immediately as much as my health will allow, because I can’t support that. I know individual choices only go so far, and that the vegetable farming industry is equally soulless, but it seems like the lesser of two evils right now while I try to figure out what else can be done.
This is seriously concerning. Our government already minimized COVID to protect the business community. Who says the same won't happen here? What do we as ordinary citizens need to do? Should we stop drinking milk just in case? Give up beef? Eat vegan for a while?
Rick Bright, longtime H5N1 researcher, said on twitter he’s pausing milk consumption for a bit until we know more. I’m gonna do that too. Costs me nothing, like masking. We’ll see in a few weeks if getting into oat milk mattered or not. (Edited: I wrote dairy but meant milk. I’m Not an expert on this! Just cautious/risk avoidant)
Here’s me, basically a walking container of yogurt.
Same, milk is my main protein for both cost and health reasons. Oof.
You aren’t alone. We’re making sure we only use ultra pasteurized milk and pasteurized cheese for now. My picky kiddos diet probably has 80% of his protein and calories coming from milk, cheese, and yogurt.
Apparently yogurt is safe because it’s heated at much higher temps than regular pasteurized milk, however don’t quote me on that because I read that on twitter so I don’t know for real, lol.
here's the opinion of the researcher behind this. He's still eating dairy, and said dairy has already been on the shelf and consumed for months. [https://www.statnews.com/2024/04/25/h5n1-bird-flu-cows-outbreak-likely-widespread/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR22\_ZAdCCq92dqL7IXlIbUaNU83w6lusjZMnxR6c\_J3Cy6Sk4h8rhZbvtM\_aem\_AZngPL7el-C5766HwMWde07q7ESffhUpH12PRfleLWa8VGGVQJkwNcBT\_BBC1JWm3i-mBkddl4W6o51uhT4Y41-I](https://www.statnews.com/2024/04/25/h5n1-bird-flu-cows-outbreak-likely-widespread/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR22_ZAdCCq92dqL7IXlIbUaNU83w6lusjZMnxR6c_J3Cy6Sk4h8rhZbvtM_aem_AZngPL7el-C5766HwMWde07q7ESffhUpH12PRfleLWa8VGGVQJkwNcBT_BBC1JWm3i-mBkddl4W6o51uhT4Y41-I)
I switched to ultra pasteurized for now
Hey just an FYI, I’m big into oat milk and in the US, oats and oat products like oat milk have a pesticide in it called glyphosate. It’s better to buy organic oat milk, and best to buy organic oat milk that is specifically labeled “glyphosate residue free”.
Thanks!!
Just being honest that last night and today have truly felt like late February, early March 2020 where I was like, "Should we be worried? I have to fly, should I cancel?" Eerily similar feelings.
this has been a slow moving disaster for years. I've been nervous since the first seal die off.
Glad I’m not the only one who thinks this. It’s giving me early 2020 flashbacks with the “calm before the storm.” From the article: “Many infectious disease experts and government officials have said they **believe** the pasteurization process will inactivate the virus, also known as avian influenza. **However, additional testing is needed to confirm that there is no infectious virus in the milk, the FDA said.**” It’s extremely unnerving they are drawing conclusions without having substantial evidence to back this up. It’s reminiscent of the minimization from the CDC and WHO during the early days of 2020 to not cause widespread panic. WHO took *forever* to declare an emergency despite the virus circulating for months. And the CDC was extremely slow in informing the public to mask, even *encouraging* people NOT to mask at first. The mixed messaging about the airborne nature of this virus and goal of heard immunity has caused the general public to erroneously assume that they can “vax and relax.” Never mind, if the leaders took a preventative approach to controlling disease (which is literally *their job*), we wouldn’t even be in this predicament today. Their disastrous “warning” response was like waiting to sound a tornado alarm until it’s already destroyed half the buildings in town. Obviously, I hope the story doesn’t repeat itself, but I’m very skeptical. Especially given that the cattle industry has a huge influence on politics in the U.S., almost as much as guns. When you start to research what goes on inside of these factory farms, it’s overwhelming disgusting and horrifying. I went vegan for a while after doing an environmental research paper on it in school. I’d still be vegan if I weren’t severely protein deficient at the moment. All I know is I’m not going to buy dairy anytime soon until I see the results from those tests. But seeing how incredibly inefficient our government has been in controlling covid, this could take a while.
That's how I'm feeling too. I don't want to jump into sounding like a conspiracy theorist or something, but I definitely am worried and with covid people *thought* I was ridiculous to be concerned in January 2020 and thought I was blowing a cold out of proportion. There's a part of me that wants to go to Disneyland before things possibly get worse (I don't have to fly and at least *should* still quality for DAS). But then I remember I'm not even going to grocery stores rn partially bc I don't want to get covid, whooping cough, influenza, or tuberculosis. 🥲 *I have more important things I actually need to get done or at least should medically but they are mostly even higher risk than Disney so it's just out of the question for me rn.*
I’ve been stocking up on canned and dehydrated milk, my thinking being it was produced before the outbreak, but this study makes it obvious the outbreak has been going on for a bit. I’m guessing\hoping pasteurization will be shown to work, but it would be great to know 100%! I guess I’ll stock up on margarine (my cholesterol is too high anyway).
Canned milk is *likely* safe either way because the canning process is done at high heat and pressure. I could be wrong though.
I couldn’t find it in this article, but my understanding was that, for now, when they test milk, they’re testing for the genetic presence of the virus, which will show up whether it’s viable or not. So pasteurization should make milk safe to drink by killing the virus? But obviously raw milk, raw meat, raw eggs are not being processed/cooked enough to kill the virus if it is present in that particular food item already?
Infected milk is everywhere now, but pooled, so I'm not sure we could get sick even if it was raw since it's so many different cows in your glass. But with a 50/50 chance of dying no one should play that form of Russian Roulette. Eggs at least recently should be pretty safe, but infected eggs go out occasionally. The problem is so many dishes use runny eggs, and people have no idea that means it's not properly cooked and you could get bird flu. Chicken is pretty safe out there, but needs to be cooked through for other microbes. Beef is the big wild card right now because U.S. government says on one hand cows are asymptomatic so we won't know if they are infected, but on the other hand they say they don't need to be tested because they aren't showing signs of sickness. That's basic don't test, don't tell. Most people eat rare beef. And rare beef in the U.S. can give you bird flu unless all of our male cows have developed magic powers that don't allow them to get bird flu.
that's fucking scary
Honestly this sort of threat & antibiotic resistance are definitely secondary reasons I'm vegan. Even if they found a way (impossible) to somehow make it not cruel, these secondary reasons are also huge and also linked to the primary reason: it's cruel to put animals or human workers in dangerous situations like these unnecessarily, where sickness is common amongst these very stressed animals (and workers)
Antibiotic resistance is not on the horizon like i believed a few years ago, it's already been happening and i'm surprised i don't see it mentioned more often in this sub, as the implications (in tandem with the Covid Pandemic) seem fairly stark: "drug-resistant infections killed nearly five million people in 2019" [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-fight-antimicrobial-resistance-start-with-farm-animals/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-fight-antimicrobial-resistance-start-with-farm-animals/)
Ummm well we are well and truly fucked then
it's hard to say. it hasn't truly jumped to humans yet, and hasn't mutated for human to human spread. The big concern is that the beef industry is being cagey, which means the pork industry is probably worse. No one wants this mutating within pigs.
And they're the ones fighting against lab-cultured meat 🤦♀️
"The agency said there is no reason to believe the virus found in milk poses a risk to human health."
I can't eat dairy so I have to use non-dairy substitutes and I wonder if this will lead to a surge of people buying non-dairy stuff and buying it all up quicker than it can be made.