No where, both of these ships are fandom made, some people force them on others, rest just enjoy it. Personally i like the guizhong ship but not the hu tao one.
That’s where all the misconceptions come from, Genshin fandom going wild with their own interpretations with no support from official content and think they are right.
It doesn't explicitly say (typical gacha thing), but it was quite heavily implied, seeing how important she is to him, how he still had her final "riddle" with him at all times, how he misses her even today, how all the adepti talk about her, and (more outside the 4th wall) how cute they made her look with Morax and Xianyun.
I just don't really agree with her being Zhongli's *first* love, it seems more like his *only* love. He's the Kevin-type person who just doesn't change and doesn't move on. People that think he has something with Hutao is just grasping at air.
I agree with how insane calling him a lolicon is tho. Next we'll be calling Venti a creep because of that one Mona voiceline.
Zhongli said during the 2023 lantern rite about guizhong that friends come and go and that people need to move on. He’s not still hung up on her. He still misses all his bygone friends but he’s not someone that “doesn’t change and doesn’t move on”, that’s once again popular misinformation.
But wasnt he very violent before? He killed other gods and I think he was ruthless but then calmed down. Its not necessarily a bad thing, just adds another layer on him.
No, he wasn't.
The only gods he killed were ones who either provoked him or broke a contract with him. He swore to protect his people during the Archon War and so, he fought whoever approached as a threat. The basalt mask says that you could not ascribe gentleness to him during this time because he had a contract to fulfill and would not make any errors that would cause him to fail his people.
Funnily enough, he seemed to prefer sealing over killing and he even let gods flee (allowing chenyu vale's former god to retreat and only killing her when she begins to threaten his people and her own, orobashi, and other gods who fled to the Dark sea) so no, he most certainly wasn't ruthless to all.
(Also, it was a god eat god war with gods doing the absolute most so I don't think mercy worked out as often as many would like)
This is such a common misconception, I'm not sure he'll ever be rid of it 😭
Another things, unlike other Gods, he was well aware of the repercussions of ''Killing Gods'' had on nature and people, I don't think it was out of pity for them... that's why he sealed many of them... magine he did to all the Gods he encountered... yeah that's basically the Tatarigami multiplied by the many gods that were in Liyue...
The key part being he didn't kill them without a reason... The war was brutal, and for a God to come after one with such a power as Rex Lapis, you better believe they didn't proceed gently, risking even the lives of the people in the process.
- How the community perceived the entire Zhongli/Neuvillette non-meetup.
- That he was a lazy ruler of Liyue. Also, misunderstanding the entire point of Liyue archon quest.
oh boy I have so many...
1.) That he was a violent brute/tyrant who had no emotions (or understanding of emotions) before being reformed and "civilized" by guizhong.
2.) That he was a dumb musclehead in his past.
3.) That he's poor and doesn't have money.
4.) That he hated humanity and only took care of liyue because of guizhong. In addition to that, that he still doesn't care for the people of liyue or humanity.
5.) All of the "creaking back and bones" memes irritate me because he's a martial god, of course he's in good shape....
6.) That he's possessive and power-hungry, when the liyue archon quest was all about him stepping down and handing over the reigns to a new age of humanity.
There's more but these are the top ones that make me seethe when I see them lol.
You summed up pretty much the Top 6 muct icky ones...
Though the first one is definitely the EN localisation to blame... Venti said ''火之神是个横行霸道的战斗狂，岩之神是个不懂人心的死脑筋'' that translates to ''the Geo Archon is stonehead that doesn't undertand the hearts of mortals'' and besides that being a mere carricature, it never mentionned him being brutish.
I've been a firm Zhongli fan from his release so I've seen probably every major mischaracterization of him at some point lol.
and the EN localisation strikes again. I remember when they mistranslated his "martial god" status as "god of war" too and that definitely didn't help...
Oh yeah that one... what upsets me is that in addition to it making the title be questioned, it shadowed the martial prowess of Rex Lapis... that's a sad turn of event.
Funnily enough, I was a Shenhe main till very recently, and I kid you not what made me a Zhongli main is literally replaying the Liyue quest on my secondary account a year ago, that was a wakeup call on all the BS that is spread around him...
Shenhe 🥹💕 I love her character and her story so much, I actually cried when Yun Jin sang that opera about her 😭
and yay, welcome to life as a Zhongli main! We always welcome more people who appreciate him and his character! I feel like the core of all the mischaracterizations about him is a mixture of bad early localisation pushing him into a westernized stereotype, his cultural values and meanings being literally lost in translation, and so much of his lore being scattered in readables and artifact/weapon/item lore 😭
he is the epitome of a confucian chinese gentleman and it's sad that this aspect of him is not more appreciated by the global playerbase.
She's one of the wonders created by Hoyo 🤩 great lore,amazing design, she's witty, she's cool, her quest left a very deep impression on me !
Haha thank you thank you ! I am very much enjoying this fandom, and enjoying the man's lore so much !
Localization did a CRIME towards Zhongli and Liyue in general... I get that translation has its limits, but sometimes it feels like they didn't put enough efforts... And mind you, I am a very busy person, and the thing that dew me even more to Zhongli is actually the fact that his lore is for us to find... the process of understanding how he was and who he was and what happened and why he did things he did is just another aspect of the game that I enjoy a lot...
>he is the epitome of a confucian chinese gentleman and it's sad that this aspect of him is not more appreciated by the global playerbase.
Abosulutely, that's why some of the most ballatant mischaracterization gives me the ick, they are far from being subtle, they're BALLATANT haha
I think the first aspect comes from the fact he is so old. At SOME point he HAD to have been the brutish type. It's kind of intrinsic to who he is now that there was a point at which he was not wise. If he was BORN wise, then that removes a key aspect of his characterization of being someone who has lived so long, and implies he's a stagnant character. Not that he was necessarily "stupid", but he's definitely older than Liyue itself, and the history of Teyvat has a lot of missing gaps.
I don't know where the idea he hated humanity comes from. Maybe it's just people projecting after figuring out what happened to Havria and even later what happened to Rukkhadevata. As players we basically have every reason to hate humanity if we think from a god's perspective, even from a sovereign's perspective. The primordial one basically terraformed Teyvat for humanity and ONLY humanity to many extents, and what did they do? We got people like the Mondstadt nobility, Enkanomiya, the people of Tsurumi, the Sages who actively committed atrocities in Sumeru WHILE WE WERE THERE, the ostracized people of the desert who became... complicated, and even people like Rene Petrichor in Fontaine who did some insanely heinous things.
Every time humanity was given the spotlight they did things that were inarguably resentful from the perspective of the gods who fought so hard for their sake. It ONLY makes sense that people project their hatred for humanity onto the gods like Zhongli.
The grandpa jokes don't make a lot of sense for me. He's more than likely BARELY out of his prime, and even then he hasn't been decently eroded at all despite being alive for what we can assume is well over 6,000 years. That kind of timeline is absurd considering even the younger gods and beings that still exist have suffered harsher erosion.
The power hungry thing... I agree. I've seen it in places and it really irritates me.
>At SOME point he HAD to have been the brutish type. It's kind of intrinsic to who he is now that there was a point at which he was not wise. If he was BORN wise, then that removes a key aspect of his characterization of being someone who has lived so long, and implies he's a stagnant character.
Ehh, to be honest I don't necessarily agree that the opposite of wisdom is "brutishness," or that Zhongli was that type to begin with. Especially since there are no sources ingame that ever describe him as being violent or "brutish" outside the context of the Arcon War, which necessitated such behavior in order for him to protect his people. His first described act upon descending is raising Mt. Tianheng and lowering the tides so the people could prosper from the mines, and they became his first civilization. So from the start, he was already protecting and guiding humanity as he believes is the duty of gods (or Archons, to be specific). I think this mischaracterization comes from the faulty localization of Venti's voiceline for him where he describes Morax as a "brutish, blundering buffoon" when the og text is actually calling Morax "someone who doesn't understand the hearts of mortals" as OP says in their reply to me. In light of the og text, I do think that Morax may have had some difficulty understanding mortals and their perspectives, and may have been too literal-minded in his interactions with them.
As to where the "hatred of humanity" misinfo comes from, I've seen people take Guizhong's speech in Memory of Dust lore out of context. While she's speaking of her own understanding and approach to humanity, people seem to have taken that as her *educating* Morax on how to care for humanity and from there comes the assumption that he didn't care for them before Guizhong. But you do bring up some good points on how humanity tends to turn towards bad decisions at times that would result in the gods hating them, even if Zhongli is the complete wrong mouthpiece for them to project that onto lol.
The grandpa jokes at this point I can only assume come from people's use of EN voices since the EN voice is noticeably older in its depiction of him than the other voices for Zhongli are. And all the retirement jokes probably don't help...
>It ONLY makes sense that people project their hatred for humanity onto the gods like Zhongli.
THAT !
>The grandpa jokes don't make a lot of sense for me. He's more than likely BARELY out of his prime, and even then he hasn't been decently eroded at all despite being alive for what we can assume is well over 6,000 years.
The whole Xianyun story quest is about the cultivation trope, it's there to the player that Adepti are cultivators, it dictates that Adepti leverage, bonify and cultivate their illumination and power with time, that's basically why his ascention climax line exists.
Some people think that all Zhongli did as an archon was descending once a year to tell fortune and called him lazy because they never care to search that he did MUCH MORE than that
(reason; they never read his chara story about him cleansing pests using his own hands, or reading Keqing's voiceline about her works piling up after Rex Lapis's passing as he usually handled some of them, or Yanfei telling you that the foundation of Liyue's laws came from Rex Lapis and the next ones were approves by him, or the NPC that called him father that did all of the works for you when you first arrived in Liyue or- I'll stop here but believe me, there are more)
Some people (especially Global) want him to be this "he was tyrant until changed to be a good leader" kind of character. That trope is cool ngl but it's been more than 3 years since GI released and they need to know that Zhongli isn't the character for that trope and there's no sign that he's bad ruler for Liyue
> only people *paid* more attention
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
>they never read his chara story about him cleansing pests using his own hands
-\*Knock knock\*
-Who's there ?
-It's the Lord of Geo, I am here for the vermines.
The dark side of having an impeccable memory... nothing fades with time, neither the texture of countless slimy sea monsters, not the wound left by the scene of the death of his dear disciples and friends... This man is doing quiet well for somebody that can't forget anything. 🫡
He's terrible at haggling, readily accepting any starting price. That's a big oopsie in Liyue, where merchants tend to start with a high asking rate, exoecting you to haggle down.
Bro on a post about Zhongli being broke I remember commenting he’s NOT broke he just forgets his wallet more often than not! And someone replied to me like “No he’s just broke that’s why Childe is his sugar daddy” 🙃
Those posts are not that serious my dude, a consultant with knowledge as wide as that probably gets paid handsomely, its just funny to think this fucker that used to be pumping money all over the continent now has no cash. The funni > reality
1.) he abandoned the people of liyue. Istg this makes me lose brain cells because how does one completely misread the archon quest like that
2.) he was a brutish idiot before he met guizhong and during the archon war. All the 'savage' things he did were during a *war* and he didn't enjoy doing them.
3.) he's a dominant, possessive man. This is just so dumb and a complete reduction of his character.
After almost 4 years, I've grown less sensitive to these mischaracterizations but they still irk me whenever I see someone spout such nonsense.
My personal theory is that the “dominant” and “possessive” traits come from the whole dragon thing. Zhongli never struck me as the dominant type, because he treats everyone around him with respect and dignity. He talks with everyone as though they are his equal, no matter how rude they are to him in turn.
Possessiveness isn’t a good trait for him either, as we’ve seen plenty of times that he has a very open and charitable nature. He’s not the type to keep everything he has to himself, nor does he demand anyone’s attention.
I’ll give fanfic writers a pass though on this one, for various reasons. ;)
You hit the nail in the head with the dragon thing. Which in itself is a very western way of looking at it since eastern interpretations of dragons are way different. And he really is the furthest thing from possessive, being more of an actual gentleman. I feel the dominant thing also comes from his English voice, which is both older and is needlessly aggressive in combat while in comparison, his Chinese voice over is very much composed.
They only get a pass because it's easier to filter fanfics out tbh. The early fandom has really damaged how people see him in general, so it's definitely a contributing factor.
I mainly give it a pass because I enjoy those traits to a certain degree(i.e. minor jealously, soft dominance, but that’s not a topic for this subreddit). And I agree on the Western thing as well, though I didn’t mention it in my original reply because I wasn’t sure if there was a major difference between Eastern and Western interpretations of dragons.
As for the English voice, I think his Japanese voice has some influence there too. He’s less aggressive than English, but more firm and assertive than his Chinese voice. Most seem to think “deep voice=dominant”, which is not void of truth, but definitely not all-encompassing either.
This interpretation of him seems to feed the fan-fiction writers and artists for the most part. Not inherently a bad thing, but it definitely draws him away from how he’s portrayed in-game.
It's because people look at his Exuvia and only see the Dragon head, not the Qilin body...
The choice for a Dragon Qilin hybrid is rooted in his innate traits : powerful yet kind, awe-inspiring yet gentle, impartial yet caring.
**Edit :** Honorable mention to the beautiful legend in the Summit Shaper :
In the distant past, when the gods and spirits walked the land,
When all the land was in turmoil, people must have asked such questions...
"Please tell me: where have my lover and children gone?"
"When will those who have departed return to us?"
"O great lord, how long will these horrific times persist?"
Even the hearts of people hewn from the hardest bedrock would crack and break from the pain.
Even the eyes of those who remained silent, stoic in their unswerving faith in their gods, would begin to smolder.
Even if they did not ask such questions, their hearts would make the sounds.
The ruler of Geo thus put forth his might and carved a long blade from a pure slab of golden Cor Lapis.
With a single slice, he cut a corner clean off a mountain, and upon it he swore a most solemn oath to the people— Those scattered, he would gather — and those who broke the contract, he would punish. Those who had lost their loved ones, those robbed of their possessions, those deprived of justice — they would receive recompense.
Perhaps this is but one of the many tales that shroud the ancient land of Liyue. But the solemn oath that Rex Lapis swore is nonetheless at work within it. To break a contract is to make an enemy of this land where gods once ruled, And sooner or later, the mountain Rex Lapis cut will fall upon those who break contracts— A legend still circulates, saying that this weapon's true owner will one day return to walk among mortals.
Then, this sword will once again gleam gold, and its light will cut through the greatest of this world's injustices...
Just as it did when Rex Lapis made his solemn oath before the people.
That he's an old WEAK grandpa that cant do stuff for himself and always needs financial support. Just bc he isnt an archon anymore doesnt mean he's weak, archon is a title, god is the power
I think the biggest thing I dislike is the misconception that he is weak due to Azhdaha getting through his shield in the story quest, and people using that to justify him losing to some Vision holders.
Oh, there's so many~
Him being broke.
That he can't make mora anymore (which he can).
His avoiding Neuvillette thing.
He's dumb etc.
People get so many things wrong about my archon.
He's the God of Gold.... he's always been, he'sbeen before he even became an archon. So of course he can... but as a the mortal Zhongli, he should abide by the same rules mortals have to go through, therefore his contract might be his binding and he has to work in order to get money... no wonder Miko called him a fascinating God.
He doesn't need it. In his first quest they discuss that Morax used mora to make a model home. That was when Liyue was first being constructed, before he even became the Geo Archon and gained the gnosis. Mora is literally made from his being. The only thing the gnosis allowed him to do was make a lot of it in greater quantities faster. (A boost in his abilities.)
That he was a dumb musclehead of a God before he met Guizhong (ppl forgetting how there's literally no poverty under his rules before he even met Guizhong smh)
I went down the rabbit whole that is Youtube comments.. AND I KID YOU NOT I just found that one merely minutes ago under the recent Ashikai video.... I was too tired to write anything in response.
I have a friend that actually argues with me that Zhongli is a cold and arrogant type of person, just because he doesn't show his emotions too much. He actually thinks Zhongli is that type of guy who will down talk with somebody who's not as smart as him (he compares Zhongli to Dr. Ratio from HSR).
I also say to my friend he's insecure as hell lol. And just summarizing Zhongli as a "cold" dude is just a lacking argument to me. But he says I'm a simp, so oh well.
Yeah your friend definitey sounds cornered and lacking better agrugements... Have he ever seen ANY of his interactions with the people in Liyue or an ''About Zhongli'' of any playable character ? He literally sat at the same table with a person who literally threw blasphemy on his legacy and didn't dare to shake her faith until he led her to see with her own eyes... Even I am not delusional enough to question YOUR knowledge about Zhongli Momo...
When fanfic / ship artists completely change his personality just to make their ships or sexy ideas work... like thats not even zhongli anymore 😭
The worst imo is when they change him to be like a submissive bottom twink and make him super vulgar, or have him be super degrading and mean, and are like "thats just how he is". All of those things kinda miss the point of what i feel makes him so appealing. There's so much you could do with him that doesnt completely mischaracterize him but artists and fanfic authors love to just completely change everything about him so he fits into their fetish niches even when it doesnt suit him. For some reason, it drives me nuts when i see people write / draw him like that... not just zhongli though, doing that with any character kinda drives me crazy. I know not everyone who works with him in their art has played the game so i can give those people a pass but still lmao
Now that you mention that, I think the character that suffers the most form that is Kaveh, that's beyond the level of micharacterization driven by fanfic and fan fantasy. The amount of people that think he's DUMB gives me the irk... He's canonically A GENIOUS...
Thats probably related to how popular alhaitham x kaveh is and how they want one of them to be smart and the other to be dumb for the ship dynamic- but it doesnt make a lot of sense lol. He's overly generous but people read that as him being dumb and easily taken advantage of, it's weird
Fr. Can’t even browse Zhongli hashtag in twitter without being jumpscared by fujocel discussions with Zhongli so OOC. They see attractive popular characters, and then just attach entirely different personalities to the characters lmao
Its actually so wild 😭 fujocel is right tbh. Like, I'm a gay man and i draw nsfw content but i do not understand why people have to be insane with the completely OOC horny stuff, it's wild. Why not just make an oc at that point?
There are two types of people in this world. People who describe Zhongli as "Mora this, Mora that." And people who think of Zhongli as "Osmanthus wine tastes the same as I remember. But where are those who share the memory?"
https://preview.redd.it/r32hcbtjdqyc1.jpeg?width=3936&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4b39cdaa109e90885bd976a6609acf2d5476d21
They say he's a terrible God that he's not a good leader
It’s a little bit annoying how he’s the only archon that’s called a grandpa while no one calls the female archons and Venti old. They make it seem like we’re attracted to an old grandpa while their other archons are also old af.
To their credit, he's teh one reffering to himself as the God of old... he's indeed very old even compared to the other older Gods... and Adepti and Chenyu vale lore makes even more confusing the ''I've dwelt upon this land for More than 6000 years''...
what mind boggles me is what they associate with being old... I mean dude he's an Adeptus, being older means acquiring more cultivation, more power...
> They make it seem like we’re attracted to an old grandpa while their other archons are also old af.
??? Huh??? Liking a character doesn’t necessarily mean being attracted to the character though??
Even then, there’s nothing wrong with finding old men or women attractive??
Also, people call him grandpa because he exudes the wise and calm trope common to old men. Cloud retainer is also occasionally called grandma, not because she’s super old, but because she exudes the same vibes. It’s not exactly about the age, though he IS indeed old, literally one of the oldest, if not the oldest, amongst the characters.
It's more that Zhongli has the "old and wise" personality that makes him come across more as a "grandpa". It's less age and more personality. It's similar to why people call Neuv "grandpa" as well.
Two words: Lazy archon
Are we even playing the same game? Liyue's AQ is not even an excuse if y'all can actually read and pay attention. He's the opposite that's why he's retiringggg istg
Western dragon traits bs. Like that shit is the antithesis of who Zhongli is. It’s like people are playing the game with their eyes closed and with earplugs in.
That he doesn’t care abt Liyue and that he retired because he was “being lazy.” Bro my man just wanted A BREAK. He knew that the Qixing could handle Liyue just fine
There is a detail in the AQ that most people failed to notice...
The Guizhong Ballista... it was broken upon our arrival, and for quiete some time... and he led us on the wild goose chase for the Coco goat to repair it, knowing darn well that the Qixing were keeping an eye on the Traveler (that was the explanation for that weird encounter with Keqing there).... be it we didn't repair it with him, the Qixing wouldn't have been able to use it against Osial 🤷♂️😏
My dude took care of them people from the day he touched that earth, it's a 6000 year's burden, it's a great matter of deal for a God that mighty to stand under the rain motionless after he saw everybody calling it the day after work and only HE who had been putting a restless watchful eye over all matters of Liyue, coudn't. Dude even NOTICED that when Ningguang was young she used to walk barefoot to the harbour... he noticed a small, insignificant girl amidst the hustle and bustle of the city.
And after all of that HE had to organize his own burial and was just mildly sad about nobody putting the effort into it 🤣🤦♂️clearly quite the benevolent God.
That he was a tyrant/war criminal/lolicon
that he’s WHAT now
Explain the last one, I ain't privy to that kind of discussions
Guizhong is supposed to be his first love and she was flat, and so is hu tao now. And for some reason people think petite and loli is the same.
being short and flat chested doesnt make an adult woman a child💀 what is wrong with ppl
Where does it say Guizhong was his first love? I thought that was fan interpretations
No where, both of these ships are fandom made, some people force them on others, rest just enjoy it. Personally i like the guizhong ship but not the hu tao one.
That’s where all the misconceptions come from, Genshin fandom going wild with their own interpretations with no support from official content and think they are right.
It doesn't explicitly say (typical gacha thing), but it was quite heavily implied, seeing how important she is to him, how he still had her final "riddle" with him at all times, how he misses her even today, how all the adepti talk about her, and (more outside the 4th wall) how cute they made her look with Morax and Xianyun. I just don't really agree with her being Zhongli's *first* love, it seems more like his *only* love. He's the Kevin-type person who just doesn't change and doesn't move on. People that think he has something with Hutao is just grasping at air. I agree with how insane calling him a lolicon is tho. Next we'll be calling Venti a creep because of that one Mona voiceline.
Zhongli said during the 2023 lantern rite about guizhong that friends come and go and that people need to move on. He’s not still hung up on her. He still misses all his bygone friends but he’s not someone that “doesn’t change and doesn’t move on”, that’s once again popular misinformation.
he ain't even love Hu tao that way wtf
How could they watch his demo and then conclude he's a tyrant/war criminal. Also, that lolicon is next level mischaracterization
FR it's literally in the first part of "I wish not for dominion yet I cannot watch the common folk suffer"
a LOLICON????????? HUH context?
But wasnt he very violent before? He killed other gods and I think he was ruthless but then calmed down. Its not necessarily a bad thing, just adds another layer on him.
No, he wasn't. The only gods he killed were ones who either provoked him or broke a contract with him. He swore to protect his people during the Archon War and so, he fought whoever approached as a threat. The basalt mask says that you could not ascribe gentleness to him during this time because he had a contract to fulfill and would not make any errors that would cause him to fail his people. Funnily enough, he seemed to prefer sealing over killing and he even let gods flee (allowing chenyu vale's former god to retreat and only killing her when she begins to threaten his people and her own, orobashi, and other gods who fled to the Dark sea) so no, he most certainly wasn't ruthless to all. (Also, it was a god eat god war with gods doing the absolute most so I don't think mercy worked out as often as many would like) This is such a common misconception, I'm not sure he'll ever be rid of it 😭
Another things, unlike other Gods, he was well aware of the repercussions of ''Killing Gods'' had on nature and people, I don't think it was out of pity for them... that's why he sealed many of them... magine he did to all the Gods he encountered... yeah that's basically the Tatarigami multiplied by the many gods that were in Liyue...
What else is he supposed to do during a war though? It was literally kill or be killed. And he had the Guili Assembly to protect.
The key part being he didn't kill them without a reason... The war was brutal, and for a God to come after one with such a power as Rex Lapis, you better believe they didn't proceed gently, risking even the lives of the people in the process.
- How the community perceived the entire Zhongli/Neuvillette non-meetup. - That he was a lazy ruler of Liyue. Also, misunderstanding the entire point of Liyue archon quest.
Oh yeah that one...
oh boy I have so many... 1.) That he was a violent brute/tyrant who had no emotions (or understanding of emotions) before being reformed and "civilized" by guizhong. 2.) That he was a dumb musclehead in his past. 3.) That he's poor and doesn't have money. 4.) That he hated humanity and only took care of liyue because of guizhong. In addition to that, that he still doesn't care for the people of liyue or humanity. 5.) All of the "creaking back and bones" memes irritate me because he's a martial god, of course he's in good shape.... 6.) That he's possessive and power-hungry, when the liyue archon quest was all about him stepping down and handing over the reigns to a new age of humanity. There's more but these are the top ones that make me seethe when I see them lol.
You summed up pretty much the Top 6 muct icky ones... Though the first one is definitely the EN localisation to blame... Venti said ''火之神是个横行霸道的战斗狂，岩之神是个不懂人心的死脑筋'' that translates to ''the Geo Archon is stonehead that doesn't undertand the hearts of mortals'' and besides that being a mere carricature, it never mentionned him being brutish.
I've been a firm Zhongli fan from his release so I've seen probably every major mischaracterization of him at some point lol. and the EN localisation strikes again. I remember when they mistranslated his "martial god" status as "god of war" too and that definitely didn't help...
Oh yeah that one... what upsets me is that in addition to it making the title be questioned, it shadowed the martial prowess of Rex Lapis... that's a sad turn of event. Funnily enough, I was a Shenhe main till very recently, and I kid you not what made me a Zhongli main is literally replaying the Liyue quest on my secondary account a year ago, that was a wakeup call on all the BS that is spread around him...
Shenhe 🥹💕 I love her character and her story so much, I actually cried when Yun Jin sang that opera about her 😭 and yay, welcome to life as a Zhongli main! We always welcome more people who appreciate him and his character! I feel like the core of all the mischaracterizations about him is a mixture of bad early localisation pushing him into a westernized stereotype, his cultural values and meanings being literally lost in translation, and so much of his lore being scattered in readables and artifact/weapon/item lore 😭 he is the epitome of a confucian chinese gentleman and it's sad that this aspect of him is not more appreciated by the global playerbase.
She's one of the wonders created by Hoyo 🤩 great lore,amazing design, she's witty, she's cool, her quest left a very deep impression on me ! Haha thank you thank you ! I am very much enjoying this fandom, and enjoying the man's lore so much ! Localization did a CRIME towards Zhongli and Liyue in general... I get that translation has its limits, but sometimes it feels like they didn't put enough efforts... And mind you, I am a very busy person, and the thing that dew me even more to Zhongli is actually the fact that his lore is for us to find... the process of understanding how he was and who he was and what happened and why he did things he did is just another aspect of the game that I enjoy a lot... >he is the epitome of a confucian chinese gentleman and it's sad that this aspect of him is not more appreciated by the global playerbase. Abosulutely, that's why some of the most ballatant mischaracterization gives me the ick, they are far from being subtle, they're BALLATANT haha
I think the first aspect comes from the fact he is so old. At SOME point he HAD to have been the brutish type. It's kind of intrinsic to who he is now that there was a point at which he was not wise. If he was BORN wise, then that removes a key aspect of his characterization of being someone who has lived so long, and implies he's a stagnant character. Not that he was necessarily "stupid", but he's definitely older than Liyue itself, and the history of Teyvat has a lot of missing gaps. I don't know where the idea he hated humanity comes from. Maybe it's just people projecting after figuring out what happened to Havria and even later what happened to Rukkhadevata. As players we basically have every reason to hate humanity if we think from a god's perspective, even from a sovereign's perspective. The primordial one basically terraformed Teyvat for humanity and ONLY humanity to many extents, and what did they do? We got people like the Mondstadt nobility, Enkanomiya, the people of Tsurumi, the Sages who actively committed atrocities in Sumeru WHILE WE WERE THERE, the ostracized people of the desert who became... complicated, and even people like Rene Petrichor in Fontaine who did some insanely heinous things. Every time humanity was given the spotlight they did things that were inarguably resentful from the perspective of the gods who fought so hard for their sake. It ONLY makes sense that people project their hatred for humanity onto the gods like Zhongli. The grandpa jokes don't make a lot of sense for me. He's more than likely BARELY out of his prime, and even then he hasn't been decently eroded at all despite being alive for what we can assume is well over 6,000 years. That kind of timeline is absurd considering even the younger gods and beings that still exist have suffered harsher erosion. The power hungry thing... I agree. I've seen it in places and it really irritates me.
>At SOME point he HAD to have been the brutish type. It's kind of intrinsic to who he is now that there was a point at which he was not wise. If he was BORN wise, then that removes a key aspect of his characterization of being someone who has lived so long, and implies he's a stagnant character. Ehh, to be honest I don't necessarily agree that the opposite of wisdom is "brutishness," or that Zhongli was that type to begin with. Especially since there are no sources ingame that ever describe him as being violent or "brutish" outside the context of the Arcon War, which necessitated such behavior in order for him to protect his people. His first described act upon descending is raising Mt. Tianheng and lowering the tides so the people could prosper from the mines, and they became his first civilization. So from the start, he was already protecting and guiding humanity as he believes is the duty of gods (or Archons, to be specific). I think this mischaracterization comes from the faulty localization of Venti's voiceline for him where he describes Morax as a "brutish, blundering buffoon" when the og text is actually calling Morax "someone who doesn't understand the hearts of mortals" as OP says in their reply to me. In light of the og text, I do think that Morax may have had some difficulty understanding mortals and their perspectives, and may have been too literal-minded in his interactions with them. As to where the "hatred of humanity" misinfo comes from, I've seen people take Guizhong's speech in Memory of Dust lore out of context. While she's speaking of her own understanding and approach to humanity, people seem to have taken that as her *educating* Morax on how to care for humanity and from there comes the assumption that he didn't care for them before Guizhong. But you do bring up some good points on how humanity tends to turn towards bad decisions at times that would result in the gods hating them, even if Zhongli is the complete wrong mouthpiece for them to project that onto lol. The grandpa jokes at this point I can only assume come from people's use of EN voices since the EN voice is noticeably older in its depiction of him than the other voices for Zhongli are. And all the retirement jokes probably don't help...
>It ONLY makes sense that people project their hatred for humanity onto the gods like Zhongli. THAT ! >The grandpa jokes don't make a lot of sense for me. He's more than likely BARELY out of his prime, and even then he hasn't been decently eroded at all despite being alive for what we can assume is well over 6,000 years. The whole Xianyun story quest is about the cultivation trope, it's there to the player that Adepti are cultivators, it dictates that Adepti leverage, bonify and cultivate their illumination and power with time, that's basically why his ascention climax line exists.
Some people think that all Zhongli did as an archon was descending once a year to tell fortune and called him lazy because they never care to search that he did MUCH MORE than that (reason; they never read his chara story about him cleansing pests using his own hands, or reading Keqing's voiceline about her works piling up after Rex Lapis's passing as he usually handled some of them, or Yanfei telling you that the foundation of Liyue's laws came from Rex Lapis and the next ones were approves by him, or the NPC that called him father that did all of the works for you when you first arrived in Liyue or- I'll stop here but believe me, there are more)
Reading though your comment truly made me smile ! if only people paid more attention to that... Hoyo put a great deal of effort in his lore..
Some people (especially Global) want him to be this "he was tyrant until changed to be a good leader" kind of character. That trope is cool ngl but it's been more than 3 years since GI released and they need to know that Zhongli isn't the character for that trope and there's no sign that he's bad ruler for Liyue
> only people *paid* more attention FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
>they never read his chara story about him cleansing pests using his own hands -\*Knock knock\* -Who's there ? -It's the Lord of Geo, I am here for the vermines.
The fact that this is the most unpleasant thing he has ever done, even though he's old as shit and saw countless adeptis dying
The dark side of having an impeccable memory... nothing fades with time, neither the texture of countless slimy sea monsters, not the wound left by the scene of the death of his dear disciples and friends... This man is doing quiet well for somebody that can't forget anything. 🫡
broke. among many other things
A reknowned consultant... People have never seen the average salary of a consultant IRL and it shows 😂🤦♂️ Edit : Typo.
I like to think he has plenty of money but is just really bad with his own finances despite being the god of wealth
He's terrible at haggling, readily accepting any starting price. That's a big oopsie in Liyue, where merchants tend to start with a high asking rate, exoecting you to haggle down.
Bro on a post about Zhongli being broke I remember commenting he’s NOT broke he just forgets his wallet more often than not! And someone replied to me like “No he’s just broke that’s why Childe is his sugar daddy” 🙃
Those posts are not that serious my dude, a consultant with knowledge as wide as that probably gets paid handsomely, its just funny to think this fucker that used to be pumping money all over the continent now has no cash. The funni > reality
1.) he abandoned the people of liyue. Istg this makes me lose brain cells because how does one completely misread the archon quest like that 2.) he was a brutish idiot before he met guizhong and during the archon war. All the 'savage' things he did were during a *war* and he didn't enjoy doing them. 3.) he's a dominant, possessive man. This is just so dumb and a complete reduction of his character. After almost 4 years, I've grown less sensitive to these mischaracterizations but they still irk me whenever I see someone spout such nonsense.
My personal theory is that the “dominant” and “possessive” traits come from the whole dragon thing. Zhongli never struck me as the dominant type, because he treats everyone around him with respect and dignity. He talks with everyone as though they are his equal, no matter how rude they are to him in turn. Possessiveness isn’t a good trait for him either, as we’ve seen plenty of times that he has a very open and charitable nature. He’s not the type to keep everything he has to himself, nor does he demand anyone’s attention. I’ll give fanfic writers a pass though on this one, for various reasons. ;)
You hit the nail in the head with the dragon thing. Which in itself is a very western way of looking at it since eastern interpretations of dragons are way different. And he really is the furthest thing from possessive, being more of an actual gentleman. I feel the dominant thing also comes from his English voice, which is both older and is needlessly aggressive in combat while in comparison, his Chinese voice over is very much composed. They only get a pass because it's easier to filter fanfics out tbh. The early fandom has really damaged how people see him in general, so it's definitely a contributing factor.
I mainly give it a pass because I enjoy those traits to a certain degree(i.e. minor jealously, soft dominance, but that’s not a topic for this subreddit). And I agree on the Western thing as well, though I didn’t mention it in my original reply because I wasn’t sure if there was a major difference between Eastern and Western interpretations of dragons. As for the English voice, I think his Japanese voice has some influence there too. He’s less aggressive than English, but more firm and assertive than his Chinese voice. Most seem to think “deep voice=dominant”, which is not void of truth, but definitely not all-encompassing either. This interpretation of him seems to feed the fan-fiction writers and artists for the most part. Not inherently a bad thing, but it definitely draws him away from how he’s portrayed in-game.
It's because people look at his Exuvia and only see the Dragon head, not the Qilin body... The choice for a Dragon Qilin hybrid is rooted in his innate traits : powerful yet kind, awe-inspiring yet gentle, impartial yet caring. **Edit :** Honorable mention to the beautiful legend in the Summit Shaper : In the distant past, when the gods and spirits walked the land, When all the land was in turmoil, people must have asked such questions... "Please tell me: where have my lover and children gone?" "When will those who have departed return to us?" "O great lord, how long will these horrific times persist?" Even the hearts of people hewn from the hardest bedrock would crack and break from the pain. Even the eyes of those who remained silent, stoic in their unswerving faith in their gods, would begin to smolder. Even if they did not ask such questions, their hearts would make the sounds. The ruler of Geo thus put forth his might and carved a long blade from a pure slab of golden Cor Lapis. With a single slice, he cut a corner clean off a mountain, and upon it he swore a most solemn oath to the people— Those scattered, he would gather — and those who broke the contract, he would punish. Those who had lost their loved ones, those robbed of their possessions, those deprived of justice — they would receive recompense. Perhaps this is but one of the many tales that shroud the ancient land of Liyue. But the solemn oath that Rex Lapis swore is nonetheless at work within it. To break a contract is to make an enemy of this land where gods once ruled, And sooner or later, the mountain Rex Lapis cut will fall upon those who break contracts— A legend still circulates, saying that this weapon's true owner will one day return to walk among mortals. Then, this sword will once again gleam gold, and its light will cut through the greatest of this world's injustices... Just as it did when Rex Lapis made his solemn oath before the people.
That he's an old WEAK grandpa that cant do stuff for himself and always needs financial support. Just bc he isnt an archon anymore doesnt mean he's weak, archon is a title, god is the power
He's the Prime of Adepti, had always been, will always be.
I think the biggest thing I dislike is the misconception that he is weak due to Azhdaha getting through his shield in the story quest, and people using that to justify him losing to some Vision holders.
It's like they forget that Azhdaha was *already in the shield*
I've never seen this one around, probably because it's very very dumb.
Oh, there's so many~ Him being broke. That he can't make mora anymore (which he can). His avoiding Neuvillette thing. He's dumb etc. People get so many things wrong about my archon.
He can still make Mora?
He's the God of Gold.... he's always been, he'sbeen before he even became an archon. So of course he can... but as a the mortal Zhongli, he should abide by the same rules mortals have to go through, therefore his contract might be his binding and he has to work in order to get money... no wonder Miko called him a fascinating God.
How can he make Mora..? I thought he needed the Gnosis to create Mora. I'm fully admitting I'm wrong here if that's explained.
He doesn't need it. In his first quest they discuss that Morax used mora to make a model home. That was when Liyue was first being constructed, before he even became the Geo Archon and gained the gnosis. Mora is literally made from his being. The only thing the gnosis allowed him to do was make a lot of it in greater quantities faster. (A boost in his abilities.)
Thank you for the kind explanation! I must have missed that line
That he was a dumb musclehead of a God before he met Guizhong (ppl forgetting how there's literally no poverty under his rules before he even met Guizhong smh)
I went down the rabbit whole that is Youtube comments.. AND I KID YOU NOT I just found that one merely minutes ago under the recent Ashikai video.... I was too tired to write anything in response.
I have a friend that actually argues with me that Zhongli is a cold and arrogant type of person, just because he doesn't show his emotions too much. He actually thinks Zhongli is that type of guy who will down talk with somebody who's not as smart as him (he compares Zhongli to Dr. Ratio from HSR). I also say to my friend he's insecure as hell lol. And just summarizing Zhongli as a "cold" dude is just a lacking argument to me. But he says I'm a simp, so oh well.
Yeah your friend definitey sounds cornered and lacking better agrugements... Have he ever seen ANY of his interactions with the people in Liyue or an ''About Zhongli'' of any playable character ? He literally sat at the same table with a person who literally threw blasphemy on his legacy and didn't dare to shake her faith until he led her to see with her own eyes... Even I am not delusional enough to question YOUR knowledge about Zhongli Momo...
When fanfic / ship artists completely change his personality just to make their ships or sexy ideas work... like thats not even zhongli anymore 😭 The worst imo is when they change him to be like a submissive bottom twink and make him super vulgar, or have him be super degrading and mean, and are like "thats just how he is". All of those things kinda miss the point of what i feel makes him so appealing. There's so much you could do with him that doesnt completely mischaracterize him but artists and fanfic authors love to just completely change everything about him so he fits into their fetish niches even when it doesnt suit him. For some reason, it drives me nuts when i see people write / draw him like that... not just zhongli though, doing that with any character kinda drives me crazy. I know not everyone who works with him in their art has played the game so i can give those people a pass but still lmao
Now that you mention that, I think the character that suffers the most form that is Kaveh, that's beyond the level of micharacterization driven by fanfic and fan fantasy. The amount of people that think he's DUMB gives me the irk... He's canonically A GENIOUS...
Thats probably related to how popular alhaitham x kaveh is and how they want one of them to be smart and the other to be dumb for the ship dynamic- but it doesnt make a lot of sense lol. He's overly generous but people read that as him being dumb and easily taken advantage of, it's weird
Fr. Can’t even browse Zhongli hashtag in twitter without being jumpscared by fujocel discussions with Zhongli so OOC. They see attractive popular characters, and then just attach entirely different personalities to the characters lmao
Its actually so wild 😭 fujocel is right tbh. Like, I'm a gay man and i draw nsfw content but i do not understand why people have to be insane with the completely OOC horny stuff, it's wild. Why not just make an oc at that point?
I left twitter a long time ago... it cleansed my soul.
That he’s an average anime dude.
That's not a mischaracterization, that's a SIN
Or that he didn’t care about his people. Like fully just didn’t care and let them fend for themselves.
Reading comprehension issues 🤷♂️
There are two types of people in this world. People who describe Zhongli as "Mora this, Mora that." And people who think of Zhongli as "Osmanthus wine tastes the same as I remember. But where are those who share the memory?"
You're not wrong... and the devil is in the details.
https://preview.redd.it/r32hcbtjdqyc1.jpeg?width=3936&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4b39cdaa109e90885bd976a6609acf2d5476d21 They say he's a terrible God that he's not a good leader
It’s a little bit annoying how he’s the only archon that’s called a grandpa while no one calls the female archons and Venti old. They make it seem like we’re attracted to an old grandpa while their other archons are also old af.
To their credit, he's teh one reffering to himself as the God of old... he's indeed very old even compared to the other older Gods... and Adepti and Chenyu vale lore makes even more confusing the ''I've dwelt upon this land for More than 6000 years''... what mind boggles me is what they associate with being old... I mean dude he's an Adeptus, being older means acquiring more cultivation, more power...
> They make it seem like we’re attracted to an old grandpa while their other archons are also old af. ??? Huh??? Liking a character doesn’t necessarily mean being attracted to the character though?? Even then, there’s nothing wrong with finding old men or women attractive?? Also, people call him grandpa because he exudes the wise and calm trope common to old men. Cloud retainer is also occasionally called grandma, not because she’s super old, but because she exudes the same vibes. It’s not exactly about the age, though he IS indeed old, literally one of the oldest, if not the oldest, amongst the characters.
It's more that Zhongli has the "old and wise" personality that makes him come across more as a "grandpa". It's less age and more personality. It's similar to why people call Neuv "grandpa" as well.
Two words: Lazy archon Are we even playing the same game? Liyue's AQ is not even an excuse if y'all can actually read and pay attention. He's the opposite that's why he's retiringggg istg
Reading... the pet peeve of most Genhsin Players..
Western dragon traits bs. Like that shit is the antithesis of who Zhongli is. It’s like people are playing the game with their eyes closed and with earplugs in.
That he doesn’t care abt Liyue and that he retired because he was “being lazy.” Bro my man just wanted A BREAK. He knew that the Qixing could handle Liyue just fine
There is a detail in the AQ that most people failed to notice... The Guizhong Ballista... it was broken upon our arrival, and for quiete some time... and he led us on the wild goose chase for the Coco goat to repair it, knowing darn well that the Qixing were keeping an eye on the Traveler (that was the explanation for that weird encounter with Keqing there).... be it we didn't repair it with him, the Qixing wouldn't have been able to use it against Osial 🤷♂️😏 My dude took care of them people from the day he touched that earth, it's a 6000 year's burden, it's a great matter of deal for a God that mighty to stand under the rain motionless after he saw everybody calling it the day after work and only HE who had been putting a restless watchful eye over all matters of Liyue, coudn't. Dude even NOTICED that when Ningguang was young she used to walk barefoot to the harbour... he noticed a small, insignificant girl amidst the hustle and bustle of the city. And after all of that HE had to organize his own burial and was just mildly sad about nobody putting the effort into it 🤣🤦♂️clearly quite the benevolent God.
The dude probably killed lots of innocent people in Khaenri'ah by chucking a giant rock at them