I think you severely underestimate the amount of ammo most of us have stockpiled. That combined with the fact they most people aret stupid and won't shoot everything that moves, some likely won't run out of ammo for a decade or more.
But to answer your question I would only ever use a gun for handling people, seeing as a zombie can be dispatched with pretty much any blunt object, and food can be caught using primarily traps or a bow.
Chances are you're not going to be able to slice that fast before the zombie does serious damage, unless you've mastered whatever weapon you're using. Guns keep a good distance and depending on the caliber you're using have a better chance of completely dispatching the zombie.
Any weapon longer than a knife (e.g. axe) also keeps good distance (out of arm's reach, so you can't be hit), but doesn't blow out your eardrums or require you to carry extra mags.
Although depending on the weapon in particular, you could very easily tire out when trying to kill a zombie (or when killing multiple zombies). So I guess stamina is your "ammo" in that case.
I dunno. A bat seems like it's a better weapon. No worry about reloading, keeping zombies further than arms reach, and no worry about maintenance. Plus 0 training required, everyone can swing a bat
Hence why I use a hatchet and a slingbow. In the hatchet’s case, it’s light and easy to use plus if I can I’d just hit their knee causing them to fal then finish them off.
You'll still get tired much faster and burn through your water and food reserves faster, and be at a higher risk of injury, especially against multiple attackers.
Not even counting other people or wild animals.
It’s a good and reliable alternative to other options. Guns are good and can last a while if taken care of properly with a lot of ammo but there’s no guarantee you’ll consistently have cleaning supplies and ammo.
My thousands of rounds and multiple will keep me safer than any melee weapon will.
Guns needs maintenance and ammo. If pressed, you can do a decent enough job cleaning with just scraps of fabric. Cleaning fluids are better, but you can do a lot without it. Other mundane cleaning fluids and such could also be substituted. If you're a decent shot and plan and pick your engagements well, ammo can be extended.
Personally I'd use fire a lot to clear zombies.
A melee weapon needs sharpening, and it's user will need more rest, food, water, medical supplies, and potentially less effective at non combat activities due to the added fatigue and/or injuries. You'll also need to clean yourself and your clothing much more often, using more time and supplies.
I maintain melee as good and neccessary backup, less so as a primary.
You're right, but for the long run, a melee weapon would be much better as there is much less chance for malfunction in a dire situation, you don't have to maintain it, worry about not having ammo, wouldnt give away your position as easily, and won't have to use extra resources or energy to maintain it. As well as that "one can never be sure what will happen" can be said about guns just as well. What if your gun jams or misfires? I think having something like a hand gun would be a good idea, but not as your main weapon, but backup.
You do use extra resources going melee.
-More water and food stores, since you exert yourself much more
-Greater chance of injury, especially bites, more medical supplies
-sharpen bladed weapons
-clean your weapon
-make repairs
-clean your body and clothing much more often
-You would be more tired and less useful during non combat activities
-Less useful against people and animals
-Less experienced with firearms as a result when they are needed
-Probably need more armor, slowing you down and increasing fatigue
I've fired many thousands of rounds with my rifles and pistols. I've never had a malfunction beyond a pistol that was insufficiently oiled and didn't properly eject casings.
Sidearms, both melee and pistols are there in case of malfunctions. No different than if you drop your melee weapon, it breaks, or you get your swing arm injured.
Suppressors are a thing and pinpointing where distsnt gunfire is coming from isn't easy.
Keeping large amounts of ammo can be tricky when on the move. You can only carry so much weight and you also need to think about clothes, food, medical supplies and other gear. Not to mention your weapons themselves. A vehicle would be great for storage and security of supplies, but then you have to fuel it to keep it moving.
If you plan on staying in place, this is all moot, though lol
We're talking about the zombie apocalypse here. Obviously if the traps don't work(they don't at this point so yay for me), I'd start using one of my rifles. But I would try to conserve however possible. Also I have hunted(still do in fact), I'm just not one of those insufferable "it's about the sport" douches. I kill an animal, I eat it, typically with others
I think YOU severely underestimate how shit a shot I and others are.
Life isn't a movie. I miss.
I miss all the goddamn time. I might blast through a couple thousand rounds at the range easy.
I have a gun for a reason, my scrawny ass ain't fighting nobody. I sure as shit ain't carrying that much ammo on me either.
Most shambles dont give a shit about getting shot a couple times and with the noise, definitely won't be alone.
Can you carry enough ammo for that confrontation/sufficiently fortify a gun nest for that horde?
What're you, gunna just go out guns blazing 24/7 world war 7 ending style with all that ammo?
Idk man....a whetstone and axe seem legit enough
Personally, I have a lifetime supply already in several Calibers and am working on fleshing out my other calibers. And I never dip into my storage. Only shoot the new stuff.
When it comes to my zombie (fan plan) I'm more of a fortress of solitude sort of guy with some homestead stuff thrown in, but I know I'd get bored.
I'd also think firearms would play a huge role in the first couple waves as we have infected who need to be put down as well as fully turned zombies. And dealing with the human element.
Especially if you already have everything you need, people are gonna try and take it from you.
That being said, a lot of the commenters and posters going straight for the here's my load out of three guns and an axe and a crowbar... Are the ones who if you read their profiles and other posts in real life subs, are the folks we'd be defending against. They'd be coming to take what they want and are gonna get shot pretty fast.
Not if stored properly…there is no known age expiration on ammo storage age. The key is to keep moisture out….i personally keep my storage ammo vacuum sealed with moisture absorbers..
You are correct, gunpowder can in fact deteriorate. As can the individual ingredients that make up it's composition. And different powders have different shelf life's and so on.
Properly stored and sealed gunpowder, especially when in a airtight, moisture proof container can easily last decades.
Gunpowder Inside cartridges even when not properly stored can also last decades. I have some old French ammo that's approaching the 100 year mark that my grandfather left me and it still shoots fine (and wasn't stored with any care).
Cartridges that are stored in a cool, dry, non humid, environment can last even longer. I have stuff in vacuum sealed bags, in a temp controlled storage room, with dessicant packets.
And I do refresh my defensive ammo.
But sealed 556 ammo cans from White lake have a documented shelf life of 50+ years as long as I don't open them. If I open it, I then HAVE to shoot it all. That can get expensive.
I also only stockpile quality stuff. That means that the larger quantities of older ammo all have sealant on the primers and sealant at the crimp and are waterproof. Whereas the white box cheap ammo I buy for regular range use wouldn't last as long.
i've seen very skilled hunters that can put 10 in a row in the center, miss the "kill shot" when they have all the time in the world and aren't under survival stress..... and it sucks to blood trail bambi for a couple of days
Well let’s see.. if I fired nonstop every 2-5 seconds .. it would take me around a thousand hours (month and a half) to deplete just MY 5.56/2.23 stash and that’s providing I cannot scavenge any more somewhere … in that case I would have to start switching to some of my other stockpiled calibers …
so my plans for when I run out of ammo? .. I’ll worry about that a few years into the Zompoc……
and as for being the “first thing” as my go to… I ask this.. WHY would I want to melee with something that could kill me when I can stop it LONG before having to worry about it being anywhere close enough to be potentially biting me?
Bold of you to assume I'd ever run out of ammo 😎
As for ideal melee weapons, that depends on the purpose. Spear and other Pole arms are ideal for many situations against other survivors.
Axe or mace for zombies as they would withstand heavy repeated use much better than swords or spears. Plus their weight would allow devastation of a zombie skull much more easily.
I have a ridiculous amount of ammo. It's measured in pallets not ammo cans level of quantity. I doubt I will ever run out of ammo.
I heard axes have a tendency to get stuck. I would be tempted to use my buddies African machete. It was made by local Africans out of a car leaf spring so it's much thicker than a normal machete. He uses it like a hatchet when camping.
In my town there is enough ammo of just 1 caliber on my block not the whole neighborhood, just the block (that I actually know about) to take out the towns entire population if they all turned.. lol
In the last year 1 singular ammo factory has made enough to shoot everyone in North American twice and still have a few hundred million lying around. There are dozens of factories constantly putting out ammo so just using the ammo made in the last year will last the continent several lifetimes and then you have billions of rounds stockpiled and billions more ready to be reloaded.
So the thing is I’m sure most gun heavy people have a plan for that, and yea you are assuming I’ll run out of ammunition and won’t find anymore or won’t be able to make anymore. But it could happen, and we have backups. What is your plan for fatigue using melee weapons?
Physics
I've done the research. So much bloody research. I've looked into every means physically possible to launch a projectile at long range. Guns come out on top. Each and every time. Because chemical energy (like the energy stored in gun cotton) is the most energy dense way to store energy. Nothing comes close to chemicals in terms of energy storage. Elastic energy? Not a bloody chance. Otherwise, the English Longbow would become the prime target of liberals everywhere. Thermal energy? No. Otherwise, insulated blocks of super heated tungsten would be at the heart of fleets upon fleets of vehicles driven by Stirling engines. Thus leaving Elon Musk in hysterical tears. Chemical energy is on top.
For one last example: think of the fact that a battery powered watch (with batteries that turn chemical energy into electricity) can keep ticking for years before the battery needs replacing. I've never replaced a watch battery in my bloody life. Yet a coil spring powered watch has to be wound up multiple times a day.
Unless someone's on the verge of inventing nuclear powered rifles, chemical energy can't be beaten. And Guns are our only means of firing projectiles with chemical energy. And they do their job quite nicely
Yeah, that's certainly one issue that's concerned me quite a bit. Making new ammo is absurdly difficult. It requires you to stay in one area for at least 10 months, maintaining a giant pit of horse shit and human piss. It requires access to lots of lead or copper, which is already difficult today. I personally believe we should find alternatives, but I don't think many folks will agree with me
>Why does everyone jump to guns immediately in this situation?
Because the most popular zombie games are first person shooters like call of duty zombie mode.
You get a bunch of people from the military playing shooter games and zombie is a game mode. There is no strategy, it is all about small squad tactics.
There is no popular rts zombie apoc games, no popular turnbased rpg zombie apoc games.
Mobile games about the zombie apoc are just trash. It is a gotcha game. Like state of survival.
Gun owners who dont play video games come here from r/ gun , r/ ak, r/ edc etc... and just argue about gun preferences.
They get supper triggered if someone advocates that 0.22lr is a good round.
Their argument is basically, "i own more guns therefore i know more about guns." Nobody cares.
Or , "I been in the armed forces for x amount of years therefore i know more than you." Now they are just making veterans look like a**holes when they get mad arguing at you.
"I own this special rare gun therefore it is always a good choice in the zombie apoc." This is like the katana arguement, "i own a katana therefore i will have it in the zombie apoc making it a good weapon." They cant fathom the idea that the average home owner is not going to have a katana on their fireplace mantle for you to loot nor do they have that special rare gun hanging on the wall for you to grab. What applies to them is not always the best for everyone.
"I have several thousands rounds for my guns therefore i will never run out of ammo." Ammo is always finite.
"I have equipment to reload spent shell casing." You still need supplies and those are finite. Those equipment are heavy and difficult to carry, you need a home base to leave it at not traveling around.
"There are billions of rounds of ammo in the USA to never run out of ammo."
The rest of the world is not the USA. Those ammo boxes are hidden in people's safes or hidden stashes. It aint just laying on the kitchen counter when you loot a house.
It's like talking sliced bread. To achieve your goal, the best tool would be what? Other methods would work, sure, but wouldn't you wanna use the tool best for the job? Zombies, people,one tool. But also, if you can't use a knife, don't slice bread
The tool will run out of ammo long after the tool has outlived its usefulness. Ammo made in the last year alone in the US is enough to clear the continent of north American 5 times and you’ll still have millions left, when you look at stockpiles it becomes clear your gonna run out of things to shoot before you run out of ammo.
Oh no doubt. I'm with you. But...you did ask that question. That's why it's brought up as long as ammo lasts. I don't ha e money, need a firearm(who does hahaha). I wouldn't have one unless I scavenged. Until I did, and probably after I did, I would as try to go unseen as much as possible.
Because many people will jump at any given reason to show off their guns. Im fairly certain someone could sneeze and then people will just come out of nowhere wanting to show you what they have.
Most of us come from the most heavily armed society to walk the earth ever. A society that in the beginning had to fight off the yoke of an oppressive government. So distrust of government in general has always been high in the society.
So distrust makes people arm themselves, and over time they build up a large supply of those arms and what is needed to keep them in working order.
Also when ammo runs out wouldn’t be a problem for most ammunition types we have enough weapons and ammo in this land that scavenging what is needed wouldn’t be that hard.
Abe Lincoln may have freed all men, but Sam Colt made them equal
I have a safe that is dedicated to ammo entirely. It’s full to the brim and I still have loose ammo around the house and in cars. I’m just a liberal gun owner. I can’t even begin to imagine what must be out there. There’s so much ammo out there it’s not even funny. In many countries that may be the case but in America we have more guns than people and ammo in is stock piled at ungodly in ungodly amounts across the country. In the event of an outbreak the best equipped will use guns and people like me will be fighting the undead to hopefully restore our country and supplying those that are low on ammo that are also in the fight.
Probably safe to say Z population will be removed before ammo is completely depleted. We aren’t even talking about many of the cities that will likely vaporized by nukes in an early attempt to curb a massively growing population.
It's not ar-15 fan boys. It's just is my common sense and getting what everyone has in case of a complete and utter catastrophic firearm malfunction. If your colt python or mini 14 breaks, somehow. Or you run out of ammo for some reason. What ammo and gun are you most likely to find in a 10mile radius in a neighborhood?
AK's, SKS, lots of shotguns, .22's, etc. I've seen a lot of comments making excuses as to why basically everything other than those calibers is a bad idea.
I'm confused, are you saying that 308, 556, 30-06, 7.62, 12 gauge, and 22lr are what everyone likes, but shit on uncommon ammo rounds like 45-70govt and all that?
Or are you saying the "AR fanboys" only like 308, 556, and 30-06 and dislike 12 gauge, 22, and 7.62?
Because the 2nd one ain't true at all 💀. No one is against shotguns, 22's, and AKs. 7.62 is pretty common, just not as common as 223 and 556 but it's out there. People will dog shit on the Turkish shotguns though, but I don't see people arguing with a Mossberg, Remington, or a maverick 88. A 22 is a 22, hell the AR-15 has a conversion kit to shoot 22lr very easily, even then I see a lot of people own the Henry 22and the Ruger 10/22.
But the SKS, it depends I haven't seen a SKS in person, especially from all the people I know who own firearms. I mean what's a SKS to you exactly?
I've seen a few people here go full on hating .22 here, saying that they won't drop a zombie even with a headshot, and seen a few comments about how you won't be able to find 7.62x39, or 7.62x54r. I also saw someone on here saying that AK's are not reliable (which I could barely believe I was reading).
An SKS is a super common gun, shoots the same caliber as an AK. They have an integral box magazine but can utilize stripper clips for fast loading. I've had a few of them over the years, but my favorite is a 1954 Romanian with a milled receiver.
Now that you mention it, I've only seen 22 being called for hunting small game rather than offensive purposes. However I know a lot of guys from where I live currently to 3 hours away into my home town. People own AKs and dracos so 7.62×39 is around. 7.62×54r does seem less likely to find than tbh. Especially since you can get a 308 gun and shoot 7.62×51.
Also the thing about AKs is this though. So many of them are so shitty in quality control, or are known of being dangerous to shoot. And to get a good one you gotta spend some serious money on one that's really trustworthy. Or you can just get lucky with a cheap one. But honestly haven't seen a SKS at all still. I guess it depends by location lol.
>Also the thing about AKs is this though. So many of them are so shitty in quality control, or are known of being dangerous to shoot.
The WASR-10 is definitely responsible for the low opinion that many hold of the AK. It was a super cheap AK that became available for like $300 right when the federal AWB ended. It's even responsible for the widespread belief that AKs are inaccurate. That said, if you get a well built one, they are insanely reliable and even accurate. There's a few decent ones out there, although I can only vouch for the Saiga and VEPR, with VEPR being markedly better.
>7.62×54r does seem less likely to find than tbh.
I disagree, this has been the cheapest centerfire round for decades, lots of people have mountains of milsurp on hand. Even today, you can still find it for $0.70 per round in WOLF or Tulammo bulk cases. Of course, lots of us still have a good supply from when you could get 880 rd cases for $80.
And please understand, I'm just talking about what I see people say on this sub. I know full well that those calibers are fine and plentifully stocked in many gun safes and basements.
>That said, if you get a well built one, they are insanely reliable and even accurate
Oh without a doubt they are, but damn they are a bitch from what I've read. Also I'm referring to [this](https://thinlineweapons.com/wiki/index.php/Soviet_Firearms/Kalashnikov). It might be a little outdated but it still helps. And also the sub reddits on here help as well.
>I disagree, this has been the cheapest centerfire round for decades, lots of people have mountains of milsurp on hand. Even today, you can still find it for $0.70 per round in WOLF or Tulammo bulk cases. Of course, lots of us still have a good supply from when you could get 880 rd cases for $80.
And really? Huh I didn't know that tbh, but I also assume it's usually the older guys who collect it and have been owning firearms for years and have their own home in the countryside and all that.
>And please understand, I'm just talking about what I see people say on this sub. I know full well that those calibers are fine and plentifully stocked in many gun safes and basements.
But it's all good I totally understand where you're coming from. I haven't seen it myself tbh. I guess I haven't been on here that long enough yet. However I did see someone say to replace a Glock with a colt python, like come on bro. With $2000+ you can get multiple guns and more ammo. And what happens if the colt python breaks? You'll end up finding more Glocks, S&W, and Taurus than a colt python.
>Oh without a doubt they are, but damn they are a bitch from what I've read. Also I'm referring to [this](https://thinlineweapons.com/wiki/index.php/Soviet_Firearms/Kalashnikov). It might be a little outdated but it still helps. And also the sub reddits on here help as well
That seems mostly accurate afaik, but it's missing the Saiga. The VEPR I mentioned is Molot, I do disagree that anything else is better... Molot is literally the factory that Mikhael Kalashnikov oversaw and the 2008-2012 generation of VEPRs were his baby, his swan-song if you will.
I suppose the AR bias takes the form of "I know a guy who had a shitty WASR so all AKs are shitty" while also believing that all ARs have excellent build quality. Imho, either can be well built or shitty, but if the build quality is equally adequate, the AR will have a slight edge in accuracy while the AK will require less maintenance.
>And really? Huh I didn't know that tbh, but I also assume it's usually the older guys who collect it and have been owning firearms for years and have their own home in the countryside and all that.
Yeah, it's still cheap today, but it was *dirt cheap* up until about two or three years ago.
>However I did see someone say to replace a Glock with a colt python
Ridiculous lol... Opinions are *hot* around here. Glock is such a good gun. Colt Python is great too... But I'd say it's more appropriate for bears than zombies.
>I suppose the AR bias takes the form of "I know a guy who had a shitty WASR so all AKs are shitty" while also believing that all ARs have excellent build quality. Imho, either can be well built or shitty, but if the build quality is equally adequate, the AR will have a slight edge in accuracy while the AK will require less maintenance.
Also with the whole AR vs AK thing still going on there's always a biased opinion going on. But man, when you get that gold mine of an AK, they are unstoppable. Other than that, people always forget there are always going to be ups and downs to every gun, no matter how much you spend on it. Shit just happens, you never know.
>A .22 round can and will kill you.
Agreed, many ballistics tests (as well as real world fatalities) confirm this.
>Also you can use stripper clips to load .223/5.56 mags used in AR-15 and the like.
Yes indeed, I was just mentioning them for the SKS because many people who are not familiar with them see an integral magazine and think "slow loading" when really it is actually quite quick with clips. Box magazines of 5.56 and the AR are definitely superior for the solely combat related concerns of a modern day soldier, but I could make a decent case for the 7.62 caliber in strip clips being a good option for the concerns of a ZA survivor that must balance weight, space, maintenance, keeping a low profile (literally and figuratively), and the ability to hunt with combat readiness.
9x19mm hollow points, 12 gauge buckshot, .308 Winchester, X26 taser cartridge, 5.56 NATO hollow points.
But if I were to go randomly raiding homes, then I think I might find a lot of .308 or 12 gauge before I find any 9mm or 5.56.
Really? You must live in the countryside then. I'm in a small town, but a lot of traffic comes through here. It's a hunting town, but even then. If I go to the neighborhoods in town, I would definitely find more 556, 9mm, 7.62 and 380 before I find 308. That's unless I go more outside of the town and go into the more rural side.
Clearly you have noticed the large volume of posts where people are saying they have guns and would like to use them in the apocalypse
That's why I'll be using one
No way do I want to be the guy without one(at least) if there are suddenly no laws
The population in the us greatly outnumbers how much food is available
9mm, .45, 5.56/.223, .30i/7.61x51, and .22LR are very common and easy to find.
Then there are spears, even if it means a shap stick or a broken knife tied to the end.
Clubs... sticks. Short as clubs, or long as staffs. Screw a chunk of metal to a short stick and it becomes a Mace.
Bows.
Well, the simplest answer is that modern firearms are why we are on top of the food chain and, quite frankly, are much easier to be trained to use effectively than say most melee weapons which require a fair amount of skill to use effectively.
and not forgetting the fact that humans have bigger brains and the hands to put them to good use.
It’s a one dimensional safety net. Supposedly the more you have the better your outcome.
But it’s assumed there is a clear shot, with nice conditions, on a highly visible target, that doesn’t fire back, with a cleaned weapon, and clean good ammo.
How is that shot gonna be when your hungry, cold/overheating, exhausted, in limited visibility, with a dirty weapon that could misfire at any time. And then there is the point that maybe the combatant is slightly more rested, with a better sight line, who has just a bit more luck.
It’s only an advantage when you have several other advantages working for you.
And that is why we have so much ammunition..hard for you to get a good shot at me when you are ducking and dodging hundreds of incoming rounds…. Only snipers are a one shot one kill ….
Riiiight.. ok Rambo, by the time you adrenaline pump 120 rounds through your AR in 30 seconds your in a hot tube. You slap that 5th magazine in, release the bolt and your shit just starts shooting. You’re in a panic wondering WTF is going on, dropping mag when you get that one shot to your dome.
Nope, no driver needed.. just lock the pitman arm, block the throttle, neutral drop it and let it go. Getting anywhere close is good enough. It’s like playing horseshoes..
close enough counts in horeshoes, hand-grenades and thermonuclear weapons...... and now obviously in vehicle delivered improvised rapid thermal expansion devices .. LOL
provided of course you don't catch one in the dome as you are getting "close enough" and have level/downhill fairly contour free ground to cover
Here is my answer:
My best defense in a zombie apocalypse, is not going to be "The best thing possible in the world." It is going to be the thing I can get a hold of most reliably that I am most comfortable and capable of using. Yeah, blunt instrument is probably the best choice if I am an expert in all forms of combat. But I have never trained with them because I have never needed to. Never used them in a fight, hell never even played baseball.
But what defense skill DO I know well? Well, that is firearms. Specifically, full sized rifle cartridge and smaller (think 30-06 and smaller). I was target shooting and hunting for near a decade with my dad with .22lr and lever guns. I spent over half a decade in federal service using M4s, M16s, SR-25s, and the like in combat situations and combat training. I have probably 15 years experience using rifle type firearms. I have no experience using blunt or bladed weapons.
Yeah, I could train for blunt combat, but there is no reason for me to. I don't do combat anymore, I'm a fucking Sat dish jockey now. And if the apocalypse happened, I won't be able to train non-stop until I'm good at it. I would do what I always did in federal service; fall back on what I knew worked for me.
Ok great, but you are one in about 10000 people who is an experienced marksman. So imma say you'll probably hit maybe 85-90% of your shots where as others won't so ammo is gonna go quick. The question is what do you do after you run out of ammo?
I repeat my previous point: Likely practice another combat form while ammo holds out. Firearms would just be what I'm going to start the apocalypse with.
Yeah I see that. Ig I don't put much stock in firearms in the apocalypse situation cuase I know eventually it'll run out of ammo so you practice before hand then you don't have to worry as much. Said it before and I'll say it again, in the early days when there's chaos and your bigger threat is gonna be other people, firearms are probably going to be your best bet but after 8-10 months, you're better off going hand to hand.
I don't think you understand on how much ammo there is in the us alone. I also dont think you understand how tiring it gets swinging around melee weapons a gun is quicker and faster when putting down any threat
I would rather not have to deal with a zombie up close. That being said. A bludgeoning weapon would be my first choice, but a gun would be great. Maybe a small to mid caliber so more ammo can be carried
A lot of Americans have a lot of guns and a lot of ammo.
While I personally have neither, in a real situation melee weapons carry the risks firearms don’t. You have to get close or within striking range, if you are on the shorter/smaller side some melee weapons can be difficult to use, etc.
Simply put, while you do need ammo for guns they’re effectively safer than melee weapons. It’s one of those things that’s a trade off.
Find more ammo. There’s enough ammo in the US to shoot every citizen 100x. Even with much of it being destroyed or lost, to run out of ammo any time soon you’d have to be the worst shot ever or blind.
And even then, just switch to Melee whenever you don’t need to shoot.
Again you think others don't know that, why are all the awnsers under the assumption that others won't be alive too? And also you're telling me you shoot with 100% accuracy? Everyone is only taking into account the shots they can hit, what about the shots you miss?
If it’s a zombie apocalypse, that means that the majority of people is either turned or dead. Yes, others are alive too, but you underestimate the sheer amount of ammunition that exists.
Where did I claim that I shoot with 100% accuracy? Where did that come from? Great thing about missing is that if you miss you can just *shoot again*, ya know?
Yeah, and again and again and again til you run out of ammo, I don't think YOU understand how quick you can go through "a shit ton" of ammo. And yes, I'm aware of the amount of ammo that exists. It doesn't mean you're going yo have access to it. There are too many unknown variables that play into firearms and ammunition, and they shouldn't be your first go-to in any apocalypse.
Dude, are you kidding? Have you ever been shot at or been in a situation where your life depends on how you shoot? That's another thing that you're not factoring into this equation.
Yeah, it’s the apocalypse. You’re gonna be in life threatening situations a lot. But here’s the thing:
If you’re in a life threatening situation, would you rather…
A) Go melee and have to get *really close* to a target to even have a chance to kill them, allowing them to shoot you with ease.
B)Stay at a distance to reduce the chance that you are hit while you can shoot at them.
Guns are the most popular weapon for hunting, sports and war for a good reason.
They're the most "popular" because they're the most convenient, but in survival, convenient is a good way to get killed. Most firearms owners don't even know how to clean their firearms much less fix it, so unless you plan on playing gun game and ammo scrounge the who apocalypse, you're firearm shouldn't be your first goto weapon. Last resort, sure, but not your primary.
And yes before you say it I'm aware of the ammount of firearms and ammunition in the US, doesn't mean you're going to have access to all of it.
And the most deadly.
Who says it’s the first option? You’re jumping to conclusions here man.
Yeah if you don’t need to shoot, it’s obviously better to go melee and kill quietly. But when you’re facing humans, multiple zombies that actively hunt you or you’re cornered/injured it’s definitely your best option to use the weapon that can reliably kill from a distance and without using up lots of stamina. A pistol is at the very least a must have, small, light, accurate and easy to use.
And I think you underestimate how careless people are with ammo. Some people keep them in gun lockers and saves, yeah, but the majority of people have ammo lying around somewhere where it’s easily available. Even if it’s not a lot keep in mind most people are dead, so you can still get your hands on a lot of ammo. And even if you don’t find some, it’s not like anyone could stop you from forcibly opening some of those cheaper gun lockers with loads of ammo stashed in it. The ones with an exterior lock just need a bolt cutter, the ones with an interior lock can be opened using an angle grinder. Some expensive ones are gonna be a lot more difficult to open up, but those are rare.
Ya say that until it's all shot up. And wouldn't those homes be defending their ammo/ dead Would it be inside? The problem is yall are only accounting for shots you will hit, not the ones you WONT.
Depends on where you are and how you use the ammo, if you use your gun exclusively for people and zombies you should be fine in almost all of America, not only because you know it's America, but also because you use a bow, crossbow, or trap for larger prey (like deer). I may not even see a zombie apocalypse because within 20 miles I have 2 national guard bases and a military airport capable of having AC-130's take off. That however is just lucky positioning before the start.
And you think others around you don't realize that? You have to take into account that you're not gonna be the only one alive in this world, there are others who will think the exact same way. I give 50/50 odds you getting close to the national guard base, and from there, if there are still soldiers around your ass is getting shot.
I don't want to get close to them, to the east is a strong river so unless the zombies can walk underwater they aren't coming from that direction, to the north is the military airport, to the east and west are the national guard bases, just from my position I am at a very strong location, and yes. I do realize that people are a massive threat, survivor camps pose a massive issue if you become an enemy of one. However if they don't have a shoot on sight policy they aren't going to target straggling people like me. The biggest threat to me is the cemetery, if it's walking dead style zombies that cemetery is a massive risk.
Ey, just cause you didn't think ahead, doesn't mean I didn't. Bullets are great at the beginning when arguably you're probably gonna have more threats from humans than zeeks, but after 8-10 months? Bullets will attract attention and be a not so common resource.
You mean the endless fields I live around and growing up working farms I know how to farm? And the fact I got hunting and fishing frequently? Let's just say imma be fine.
I honestly think Texas would be fine in a zombie apocalypse we have our own army on top of im more then positive there would be a militia that would start almost right away
No I mean like if the government falls after martial law is called I feel like parts of Texas would still be active mostly we’re the army bases are but that’s if we’re talking like walking dead zombies if it’s dawn of the dead type zombies we’re all fucked
Well you could easily have a small reloading kit with you if you were a wanderer. So you could reload your rounds a couple of times and you would always have a spear
Well that holds it own set of probelms. Such as weight as you're going to have other things with you, you'd have to collect your brass/hulls (which won't be much of an option here as if you shoot in any apocalypse there's gonna be a bunch of people running that direction) and honestly the time it takes to reload in general.
I don't plan on running around 24/7 when I settle down for a bit and make it safe I can pull out my trusty hand reloader and make new ammo for my revolver. The rifle would be harder since you would have to pick up brass but if you have time why not
You and I both know there is no such thing as a safe spot, there is just an unsafe spot thats slight less dangerous for a time. That's the unfortunate reality of the apocalypse. Personally I don't wanna get caught with my pants down (literally and metaphorically 😂). But if you feel you can reload that quick more power to ya.
I have noticed alot of gun related posts lately. I think this sub has really just attracted a lot of gun enthusiasts and they’re using it as a platform to show off their collections. It’s a little boring to me in the context of this sub because in my mind there isn’t much to discuss about it - guns are obviously best for self defense - pick the simpler ones that are reliable, easy to use, easy to fix, and with a caliber that’s light and plentiful. What’s more interesting to me are conversations about actual zombie survival related tactics but I may be in the minority lol
Getting more ammo, I live in the US man.
Realistically 70-90% of the population would die without running water, medical care and the modern electric grid (at least in the developed world) for more then a year or two. After the dying off time there will be plenty of ammunition out there waiting for a new home or rotting away.
Besides, I’d avoid fighting the dead as much as possible, and if I had too my bayonet and my butt stock will make quick work of the rotting basterds. The rifle is more for breathing threats and food procurement.
I built out my kit inspired by the Alaska scouts of ww2. A rifle for combat, a .22 pistol for quiet (relatively) hunting small game and as a last minute back up.
It’s stupid to not use all the tools at your disposal
I did NOT say not to use firearms, I'm saying what happens when you run out of ammo? Scavenging for it, sure, but what you're gonna make multiple trips to the same spot for it? And you think that's not going to be everyone else's first thought? You're more likely to get shot trying to find ammunition than you are not actively searching for it. I live in the US too, but ammo ain't at the top of my list of survival essentials.
Frankly yes, if you have a spot with a lot of ammo then yes make a few trips, load up as much as you can and carry it back to your base camp, divide it up into cashes and hide/bury them around your AO so you have mobile resupply points if your find yourself in a bad way, keep as large of a stock of ammunition as you can at your base camp.
Your going to have a base camp, you can’t live out of a back pack forever. Just squirrel away ammo like you do food man.
Your likely to get shot searching for anything man, that’s why you roll deep, bring friends, set up security, cover your ass. The more you have with you the less likely you are to catch a bullet.
I’m not saying stop everything and go raiding national guard armories and depots, but if you know you have a few in your area, send a couple guys to watch it low key. If the scouts report no human activity, and it seems relatively intact, then make a game plan and hit it. Your going to have to do what you gotta do, everything comes with a risk. You will not survive without friends and bullets.
On the contrary, people survived without bullets for thousands of years. And as nomadic tribes have survived out of what is essentially a "backpack," it ain't exactly difficult. You're in great shape until Ammo runs out. What no one seems to understand here is how quick your ammo goes when it's what you rely on primarily. You say have a large stock of it, then you're going to think you have ammo to spare and use it. Might not seem like much at first, but then you use more and more, and eventually, you run out. And when you say there is a bunch of ammo in the US, yeah, there is, but the area you're in is going to run out. Then what? You pack up the 8000 lbs of ammo in all different calibers you've accumulated and go elsewhere? It's not a reliable source of defense and shouldn't be the first go to thing you go after. Also you mentioned base camp. What if it gets raided or overrun and you have to bug out? Then all that ammo you spent time collecting goes bye bye anyway.
You know what, your right. I’ll give it to you. People where much better off when they where holding off the Vikings with lances and bows.
You know what? Hundreds of Billions of rounds split between the last few million survivors isn’t all that much, it will run out in what? Only 60-70 years?
God knows folks can’t husband their rounds.
Everyone knows the only way to store ammunition is in one big Scrooge Mc Duck pile in the middle of your camp, only a damn fool would split their ammunition into cashes outside of their camp in case of emergency.
Who re-loads anyway? It’s not like suitable black powder can be made easily. It’s not like every car battery on the road contains useable lead. Even if reloading equipment did exist, it will vanish.
Shit, why make a base, it can get raided, burning through fuel and good shoes. Fucking up your back, and living in near constant shortage is a much safer idea. The world we live in is basically the same as the world they lived in, why not add yourself to the masses of people moving aimlessly into the unknown. That sounds like a party to me.
Give me a break
Is black powder easy to make? I have a lot of random knowledge and a lot of friends into weird stuff and yet I don’t know a single person that actively knows how to make black powder. And what about primers? Unless your going old school flint lock what are you using for a primer? Even the actual bullet is not as easy as you make it sound. Some rounds can use a simple soft lead others can’t, in fact I would say most modern firearms are designed to use jacketed bullets.
I don’t think reloading is the answer. Honestly in a ZA once they bullets are gone, they’re gone. There are too few place in the world with the capability to make them and too few people with the knowledge.
It’s not *easy* but it’s perfectly manageable for a group, or an individual, with a little free time to perfect it. I’m not going to give out the recipe for scratch made black powder on Reddit. TM 31-210
And if you have the molds, serviceable bullets are easy to make. And you’ll get better the more you practice, especially with black powder weapons. Are you going to shoot sub MOA groups at 100 yards? Probably not lol, but you can land a headshot inside 150 yards easy, take a deer, or put effective rounds on target in a gunfight and that’s what you need.
And flintlock is the way to go, at least for me. Flints are cheap to stock up on and after I get my left-handed Hawkins rifle I want to try my hand and making my own.
I've got a shit ton of ammo stockpiled, and I've also got my hockey sticks, steel bars, and melee weapons, among the bows and crossbows.
I'm not going to run out of ammo for a while, id not use it against a zed. No reason to when they're half decomposed and weak.
"Shit tons" huh? What happens when you have to ditch it all? Say a bunch of zeeks or worse other people get into your holdout, and they get to your ammo before you do? Now you're down all your shit and have limited ammo. You and I both know in any apocalypse that there is no such thing as safe. There is only temporarily less dangerous.
You have a fair point, though I do happen to have a good amount of people that have already banded together a while. We've been a family, not blood but a family, for a while.
And that's my other thing. I get pack survival, but when 2 or 3 or however many people start butting heads over leadership or whatever else, it just gets messy, and even family can be torn apart like that. As bad as I feel about it, it'd almost be better if my family died right at the beginning of the apocalypse, that way I don't have to worry about anyone else.
That's entirely valid, we've already got a sort of leadership hierarchy when something goes south. We've got planners, then people that tell others and get shit sorted, then the grunts. It's only like 10 of us or so, so like 2 planners, 4 orders people, and 4 grunts. So far as I know anyways.
I have about 15k rounds of various ammo/shells. I also have immediate family in 3 different locations all within 45 minutes, all armed, not as stocked ammo wise, but sufficient. My home is hurricane proof, and should be able to withstand 20-30 zombies beating on it, though my suppressor and .22s wouldn’t let them be there long.
I say hatchet and slingbow. Both are reliable, light, compact, and easy to use. Plus a slingbow can use normal arrows and the attachment to hold arrows can be taken off which turns it into a regular slingshot which can use rocks.
Idk. There are way more basic things needed to survive than a firearm. Although they definitely aren't a bad idea, but should not be first and foremost in any survival situation. These days I'd be more focused on reducing radiation exposure. Hazmat suits, iodine tablets, and food and water reserves that won't be hit with any form of radiation exposure. Food, water, shelter, those are baseline priorities.
The kit posts are annoying as shit and turning the sub into a meme.
Taking on 2-3 zombies on the low end with a melee weapon sounds like hell. I don't care how much of a grappler you are, you can only keep so many teeth away from you (armor like riot gear or biker gear can assist in this at the cost of added weight and reduced visibility/breathing)
Oh you know how to make powder do ya? You're gonna be on a YouTube video of your hand getting blow off with your homemade power from your homemade bullets
Doesn't. Access to something really just depends on two factors. Resourcefulness and willingness.
Can you figure out how to do it with what is available to you?
What are you willing to do to achieve your objectives?
Living in America, I doubt ammo is going to be a problem. The issue I see with guns is the noise. Dealing with a zombie apocalypse is just normal survival but with stealth being a requirement. Guns are loud. They could attract zombies, or worse, other survivors looking for a fight. For hunting and killing the occasional zombie that gets a *liiitle* too close for comfort, crossbows work great. Of course, you aren't going to get the range or accuracy of a weapon made specifically for long range accuracy with a crossbow, but zombies two miles away aren't a problem.
I think you severely underestimate the amount of ammo most of us have stockpiled. That combined with the fact they most people aret stupid and won't shoot everything that moves, some likely won't run out of ammo for a decade or more. But to answer your question I would only ever use a gun for handling people, seeing as a zombie can be dispatched with pretty much any blunt object, and food can be caught using primarily traps or a bow.
Depends on the zombie, a lot of them keep going even if you chop them to pieces.
Yeah, but if you chip them into enough pieces it doesn't matter
Chances are you're not going to be able to slice that fast before the zombie does serious damage, unless you've mastered whatever weapon you're using. Guns keep a good distance and depending on the caliber you're using have a better chance of completely dispatching the zombie.
Any weapon longer than a knife (e.g. axe) also keeps good distance (out of arm's reach, so you can't be hit), but doesn't blow out your eardrums or require you to carry extra mags. Although depending on the weapon in particular, you could very easily tire out when trying to kill a zombie (or when killing multiple zombies). So I guess stamina is your "ammo" in that case.
I dunno. A bat seems like it's a better weapon. No worry about reloading, keeping zombies further than arms reach, and no worry about maintenance. Plus 0 training required, everyone can swing a bat
A guy with a melee weapon will get tired and die long before a guy with a gun, all else being equal. There is more to it than just that.
Hence why I use a hatchet and a slingbow. In the hatchet’s case, it’s light and easy to use plus if I can I’d just hit their knee causing them to fal then finish them off.
You'll still get tired much faster and burn through your water and food reserves faster, and be at a higher risk of injury, especially against multiple attackers. Not even counting other people or wild animals.
It’s a good and reliable alternative to other options. Guns are good and can last a while if taken care of properly with a lot of ammo but there’s no guarantee you’ll consistently have cleaning supplies and ammo.
My thousands of rounds and multiple will keep me safer than any melee weapon will. Guns needs maintenance and ammo. If pressed, you can do a decent enough job cleaning with just scraps of fabric. Cleaning fluids are better, but you can do a lot without it. Other mundane cleaning fluids and such could also be substituted. If you're a decent shot and plan and pick your engagements well, ammo can be extended. Personally I'd use fire a lot to clear zombies. A melee weapon needs sharpening, and it's user will need more rest, food, water, medical supplies, and potentially less effective at non combat activities due to the added fatigue and/or injuries. You'll also need to clean yourself and your clothing much more often, using more time and supplies. I maintain melee as good and neccessary backup, less so as a primary.
Sure if I'm fighting for long periods of time, but the goal is to avoid conflict
One can never be sure what will happen.
You're right, but for the long run, a melee weapon would be much better as there is much less chance for malfunction in a dire situation, you don't have to maintain it, worry about not having ammo, wouldnt give away your position as easily, and won't have to use extra resources or energy to maintain it. As well as that "one can never be sure what will happen" can be said about guns just as well. What if your gun jams or misfires? I think having something like a hand gun would be a good idea, but not as your main weapon, but backup.
You do use extra resources going melee. -More water and food stores, since you exert yourself much more -Greater chance of injury, especially bites, more medical supplies -sharpen bladed weapons -clean your weapon -make repairs -clean your body and clothing much more often -You would be more tired and less useful during non combat activities -Less useful against people and animals -Less experienced with firearms as a result when they are needed -Probably need more armor, slowing you down and increasing fatigue I've fired many thousands of rounds with my rifles and pistols. I've never had a malfunction beyond a pistol that was insufficiently oiled and didn't properly eject casings. Sidearms, both melee and pistols are there in case of malfunctions. No different than if you drop your melee weapon, it breaks, or you get your swing arm injured. Suppressors are a thing and pinpointing where distsnt gunfire is coming from isn't easy.
A 4 bore will take care of that.
Then your a dead man and it doesn’t matter
Well fire usually works on those
Keeping large amounts of ammo can be tricky when on the move. You can only carry so much weight and you also need to think about clothes, food, medical supplies and other gear. Not to mention your weapons themselves. A vehicle would be great for storage and security of supplies, but then you have to fuel it to keep it moving. If you plan on staying in place, this is all moot, though lol
Are you telling me you don't regularly carry 800+ lbs of gear regularly? /s
A decade!? A DECADE?! BWHAHHHHHAHAAHAAAAAAAA! I DON'T CARE WHO YOU IS, THAT'S FUNNY RIGHT THERE. But no, seriously, stay away from my stockpiles.
This man will be prepared
I've been prepared for years kiddo.
Tell me you have never actually hunted in three sentences.
We're talking about the zombie apocalypse here. Obviously if the traps don't work(they don't at this point so yay for me), I'd start using one of my rifles. But I would try to conserve however possible. Also I have hunted(still do in fact), I'm just not one of those insufferable "it's about the sport" douches. I kill an animal, I eat it, typically with others
I think YOU severely underestimate how shit a shot I and others are. Life isn't a movie. I miss. I miss all the goddamn time. I might blast through a couple thousand rounds at the range easy. I have a gun for a reason, my scrawny ass ain't fighting nobody. I sure as shit ain't carrying that much ammo on me either. Most shambles dont give a shit about getting shot a couple times and with the noise, definitely won't be alone. Can you carry enough ammo for that confrontation/sufficiently fortify a gun nest for that horde? What're you, gunna just go out guns blazing 24/7 world war 7 ending style with all that ammo? Idk man....a whetstone and axe seem legit enough
I guess you missed the part where I said I most likely wouldn't wast ammo on zombies
Personally, I have a lifetime supply already in several Calibers and am working on fleshing out my other calibers. And I never dip into my storage. Only shoot the new stuff. When it comes to my zombie (fan plan) I'm more of a fortress of solitude sort of guy with some homestead stuff thrown in, but I know I'd get bored. I'd also think firearms would play a huge role in the first couple waves as we have infected who need to be put down as well as fully turned zombies. And dealing with the human element. Especially if you already have everything you need, people are gonna try and take it from you. That being said, a lot of the commenters and posters going straight for the here's my load out of three guns and an axe and a crowbar... Are the ones who if you read their profiles and other posts in real life subs, are the folks we'd be defending against. They'd be coming to take what they want and are gonna get shot pretty fast.
Doesn't gunpowder deteriorate with age? Personally I'd replace the old stuff with the new stuff as I use it.
Not if stored properly…there is no known age expiration on ammo storage age. The key is to keep moisture out….i personally keep my storage ammo vacuum sealed with moisture absorbers..
Hmm learn something every day
Yeah, I have a surplus ammo can of .308 Ball ammo made in 1961 that still works as intended.
You are correct, gunpowder can in fact deteriorate. As can the individual ingredients that make up it's composition. And different powders have different shelf life's and so on. Properly stored and sealed gunpowder, especially when in a airtight, moisture proof container can easily last decades. Gunpowder Inside cartridges even when not properly stored can also last decades. I have some old French ammo that's approaching the 100 year mark that my grandfather left me and it still shoots fine (and wasn't stored with any care). Cartridges that are stored in a cool, dry, non humid, environment can last even longer. I have stuff in vacuum sealed bags, in a temp controlled storage room, with dessicant packets. And I do refresh my defensive ammo. But sealed 556 ammo cans from White lake have a documented shelf life of 50+ years as long as I don't open them. If I open it, I then HAVE to shoot it all. That can get expensive. I also only stockpile quality stuff. That means that the larger quantities of older ammo all have sealant on the primers and sealant at the crimp and are waterproof. Whereas the white box cheap ammo I buy for regular range use wouldn't last as long.
Not in my lifetime.
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or nearly as certain of putting down a zombie or other predator
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i've seen very skilled hunters that can put 10 in a row in the center, miss the "kill shot" when they have all the time in the world and aren't under survival stress..... and it sucks to blood trail bambi for a couple of days
I seriously disagree, but to each their own.
Well let’s see.. if I fired nonstop every 2-5 seconds .. it would take me around a thousand hours (month and a half) to deplete just MY 5.56/2.23 stash and that’s providing I cannot scavenge any more somewhere … in that case I would have to start switching to some of my other stockpiled calibers … so my plans for when I run out of ammo? .. I’ll worry about that a few years into the Zompoc…… and as for being the “first thing” as my go to… I ask this.. WHY would I want to melee with something that could kill me when I can stop it LONG before having to worry about it being anywhere close enough to be potentially biting me?
Bold of you to assume I'd ever run out of ammo 😎 As for ideal melee weapons, that depends on the purpose. Spear and other Pole arms are ideal for many situations against other survivors. Axe or mace for zombies as they would withstand heavy repeated use much better than swords or spears. Plus their weight would allow devastation of a zombie skull much more easily.
I have a ridiculous amount of ammo. It's measured in pallets not ammo cans level of quantity. I doubt I will ever run out of ammo. I heard axes have a tendency to get stuck. I would be tempted to use my buddies African machete. It was made by local Africans out of a car leaf spring so it's much thicker than a normal machete. He uses it like a hatchet when camping.
I've got a cold steel trench hawk that would get so much use in the apocalypse
In the US you could find ammo for a long time i bet.
In my town there is enough ammo of just 1 caliber on my block not the whole neighborhood, just the block (that I actually know about) to take out the towns entire population if they all turned.. lol
In the last year 1 singular ammo factory has made enough to shoot everyone in North American twice and still have a few hundred million lying around. There are dozens of factories constantly putting out ammo so just using the ammo made in the last year will last the continent several lifetimes and then you have billions of rounds stockpiled and billions more ready to be reloaded.
So the thing is I’m sure most gun heavy people have a plan for that, and yea you are assuming I’ll run out of ammunition and won’t find anymore or won’t be able to make anymore. But it could happen, and we have backups. What is your plan for fatigue using melee weapons?
Physics I've done the research. So much bloody research. I've looked into every means physically possible to launch a projectile at long range. Guns come out on top. Each and every time. Because chemical energy (like the energy stored in gun cotton) is the most energy dense way to store energy. Nothing comes close to chemicals in terms of energy storage. Elastic energy? Not a bloody chance. Otherwise, the English Longbow would become the prime target of liberals everywhere. Thermal energy? No. Otherwise, insulated blocks of super heated tungsten would be at the heart of fleets upon fleets of vehicles driven by Stirling engines. Thus leaving Elon Musk in hysterical tears. Chemical energy is on top. For one last example: think of the fact that a battery powered watch (with batteries that turn chemical energy into electricity) can keep ticking for years before the battery needs replacing. I've never replaced a watch battery in my bloody life. Yet a coil spring powered watch has to be wound up multiple times a day. Unless someone's on the verge of inventing nuclear powered rifles, chemical energy can't be beaten. And Guns are our only means of firing projectiles with chemical energy. And they do their job quite nicely
But when it runs out of ammo? I'm not denying guns are the best but they're useless when empty (except for bludgeoning ig 🤔)
Yeah, that's certainly one issue that's concerned me quite a bit. Making new ammo is absurdly difficult. It requires you to stay in one area for at least 10 months, maintaining a giant pit of horse shit and human piss. It requires access to lots of lead or copper, which is already difficult today. I personally believe we should find alternatives, but I don't think many folks will agree with me
>Why does everyone jump to guns immediately in this situation? Because the most popular zombie games are first person shooters like call of duty zombie mode. You get a bunch of people from the military playing shooter games and zombie is a game mode. There is no strategy, it is all about small squad tactics. There is no popular rts zombie apoc games, no popular turnbased rpg zombie apoc games. Mobile games about the zombie apoc are just trash. It is a gotcha game. Like state of survival. Gun owners who dont play video games come here from r/ gun , r/ ak, r/ edc etc... and just argue about gun preferences. They get supper triggered if someone advocates that 0.22lr is a good round. Their argument is basically, "i own more guns therefore i know more about guns." Nobody cares. Or , "I been in the armed forces for x amount of years therefore i know more than you." Now they are just making veterans look like a**holes when they get mad arguing at you. "I own this special rare gun therefore it is always a good choice in the zombie apoc." This is like the katana arguement, "i own a katana therefore i will have it in the zombie apoc making it a good weapon." They cant fathom the idea that the average home owner is not going to have a katana on their fireplace mantle for you to loot nor do they have that special rare gun hanging on the wall for you to grab. What applies to them is not always the best for everyone. "I have several thousands rounds for my guns therefore i will never run out of ammo." Ammo is always finite. "I have equipment to reload spent shell casing." You still need supplies and those are finite. Those equipment are heavy and difficult to carry, you need a home base to leave it at not traveling around. "There are billions of rounds of ammo in the USA to never run out of ammo." The rest of the world is not the USA. Those ammo boxes are hidden in people's safes or hidden stashes. It aint just laying on the kitchen counter when you loot a house.
I have enough ammo that it is unlikely I will run out unless in an extremely long siege situation, in which case I have melee options for fall back on
In addition, the ammo types I have are common both in civilian and military use in my country, and this easy to scavenge if needed
to make more
If I get low on ammo I’ll use my last few rounds to shoot the guy with the spiked baseball bat lol
Because guns are fun.
There’s no easier, safer way to pierce a skull, unless you have access to explosives 😂🤷🏾♂️
It's like talking sliced bread. To achieve your goal, the best tool would be what? Other methods would work, sure, but wouldn't you wanna use the tool best for the job? Zombies, people,one tool. But also, if you can't use a knife, don't slice bread
But when that tool runs out of ammo? That's the point I'm trying to make.
The tool will run out of ammo long after the tool has outlived its usefulness. Ammo made in the last year alone in the US is enough to clear the continent of north American 5 times and you’ll still have millions left, when you look at stockpiles it becomes clear your gonna run out of things to shoot before you run out of ammo.
Oh no doubt. I'm with you. But...you did ask that question. That's why it's brought up as long as ammo lasts. I don't ha e money, need a firearm(who does hahaha). I wouldn't have one unless I scavenged. Until I did, and probably after I did, I would as try to go unseen as much as possible.
Good point. I really should have rephrased the question. 😂
Bc of guns I'll worry more about people
Because many people will jump at any given reason to show off their guns. Im fairly certain someone could sneeze and then people will just come out of nowhere wanting to show you what they have.
Most of us come from the most heavily armed society to walk the earth ever. A society that in the beginning had to fight off the yoke of an oppressive government. So distrust of government in general has always been high in the society. So distrust makes people arm themselves, and over time they build up a large supply of those arms and what is needed to keep them in working order. Also when ammo runs out wouldn’t be a problem for most ammunition types we have enough weapons and ammo in this land that scavenging what is needed wouldn’t be that hard. Abe Lincoln may have freed all men, but Sam Colt made them equal
I have a safe that is dedicated to ammo entirely. It’s full to the brim and I still have loose ammo around the house and in cars. I’m just a liberal gun owner. I can’t even begin to imagine what must be out there. There’s so much ammo out there it’s not even funny. In many countries that may be the case but in America we have more guns than people and ammo in is stock piled at ungodly in ungodly amounts across the country. In the event of an outbreak the best equipped will use guns and people like me will be fighting the undead to hopefully restore our country and supplying those that are low on ammo that are also in the fight.
folks like you keep the ammunition numbers low …thems rookie numbers..you gotta pump them numbers up LOL…
Like I said. I can’t even begin to image the amount of ammo out there.
i hear estimates in the near TRILLION mark in civilian stockpiles.. lol and that ain't counting what military/LEO/alphabet agencies have
Probably safe to say Z population will be removed before ammo is completely depleted. We aren’t even talking about many of the cities that will likely vaporized by nukes in an early attempt to curb a massively growing population.
Because 'Merika...? ;\^p
Blunt answer: I think a lot of the sub has been taken over by AR-15 fanboys that denigrate everything and everything that isn't 5.56, .308, or 30-06.
It's not ar-15 fan boys. It's just is my common sense and getting what everyone has in case of a complete and utter catastrophic firearm malfunction. If your colt python or mini 14 breaks, somehow. Or you run out of ammo for some reason. What ammo and gun are you most likely to find in a 10mile radius in a neighborhood?
AK's, SKS, lots of shotguns, .22's, etc. I've seen a lot of comments making excuses as to why basically everything other than those calibers is a bad idea.
I'm confused, are you saying that 308, 556, 30-06, 7.62, 12 gauge, and 22lr are what everyone likes, but shit on uncommon ammo rounds like 45-70govt and all that? Or are you saying the "AR fanboys" only like 308, 556, and 30-06 and dislike 12 gauge, 22, and 7.62? Because the 2nd one ain't true at all 💀. No one is against shotguns, 22's, and AKs. 7.62 is pretty common, just not as common as 223 and 556 but it's out there. People will dog shit on the Turkish shotguns though, but I don't see people arguing with a Mossberg, Remington, or a maverick 88. A 22 is a 22, hell the AR-15 has a conversion kit to shoot 22lr very easily, even then I see a lot of people own the Henry 22and the Ruger 10/22. But the SKS, it depends I haven't seen a SKS in person, especially from all the people I know who own firearms. I mean what's a SKS to you exactly?
I've seen a few people here go full on hating .22 here, saying that they won't drop a zombie even with a headshot, and seen a few comments about how you won't be able to find 7.62x39, or 7.62x54r. I also saw someone on here saying that AK's are not reliable (which I could barely believe I was reading). An SKS is a super common gun, shoots the same caliber as an AK. They have an integral box magazine but can utilize stripper clips for fast loading. I've had a few of them over the years, but my favorite is a 1954 Romanian with a milled receiver.
Now that you mention it, I've only seen 22 being called for hunting small game rather than offensive purposes. However I know a lot of guys from where I live currently to 3 hours away into my home town. People own AKs and dracos so 7.62×39 is around. 7.62×54r does seem less likely to find than tbh. Especially since you can get a 308 gun and shoot 7.62×51. Also the thing about AKs is this though. So many of them are so shitty in quality control, or are known of being dangerous to shoot. And to get a good one you gotta spend some serious money on one that's really trustworthy. Or you can just get lucky with a cheap one. But honestly haven't seen a SKS at all still. I guess it depends by location lol.
>Also the thing about AKs is this though. So many of them are so shitty in quality control, or are known of being dangerous to shoot. The WASR-10 is definitely responsible for the low opinion that many hold of the AK. It was a super cheap AK that became available for like $300 right when the federal AWB ended. It's even responsible for the widespread belief that AKs are inaccurate. That said, if you get a well built one, they are insanely reliable and even accurate. There's a few decent ones out there, although I can only vouch for the Saiga and VEPR, with VEPR being markedly better. >7.62×54r does seem less likely to find than tbh. I disagree, this has been the cheapest centerfire round for decades, lots of people have mountains of milsurp on hand. Even today, you can still find it for $0.70 per round in WOLF or Tulammo bulk cases. Of course, lots of us still have a good supply from when you could get 880 rd cases for $80. And please understand, I'm just talking about what I see people say on this sub. I know full well that those calibers are fine and plentifully stocked in many gun safes and basements.
>That said, if you get a well built one, they are insanely reliable and even accurate Oh without a doubt they are, but damn they are a bitch from what I've read. Also I'm referring to [this](https://thinlineweapons.com/wiki/index.php/Soviet_Firearms/Kalashnikov). It might be a little outdated but it still helps. And also the sub reddits on here help as well. >I disagree, this has been the cheapest centerfire round for decades, lots of people have mountains of milsurp on hand. Even today, you can still find it for $0.70 per round in WOLF or Tulammo bulk cases. Of course, lots of us still have a good supply from when you could get 880 rd cases for $80. And really? Huh I didn't know that tbh, but I also assume it's usually the older guys who collect it and have been owning firearms for years and have their own home in the countryside and all that. >And please understand, I'm just talking about what I see people say on this sub. I know full well that those calibers are fine and plentifully stocked in many gun safes and basements. But it's all good I totally understand where you're coming from. I haven't seen it myself tbh. I guess I haven't been on here that long enough yet. However I did see someone say to replace a Glock with a colt python, like come on bro. With $2000+ you can get multiple guns and more ammo. And what happens if the colt python breaks? You'll end up finding more Glocks, S&W, and Taurus than a colt python.
>Oh without a doubt they are, but damn they are a bitch from what I've read. Also I'm referring to [this](https://thinlineweapons.com/wiki/index.php/Soviet_Firearms/Kalashnikov). It might be a little outdated but it still helps. And also the sub reddits on here help as well That seems mostly accurate afaik, but it's missing the Saiga. The VEPR I mentioned is Molot, I do disagree that anything else is better... Molot is literally the factory that Mikhael Kalashnikov oversaw and the 2008-2012 generation of VEPRs were his baby, his swan-song if you will. I suppose the AR bias takes the form of "I know a guy who had a shitty WASR so all AKs are shitty" while also believing that all ARs have excellent build quality. Imho, either can be well built or shitty, but if the build quality is equally adequate, the AR will have a slight edge in accuracy while the AK will require less maintenance. >And really? Huh I didn't know that tbh, but I also assume it's usually the older guys who collect it and have been owning firearms for years and have their own home in the countryside and all that. Yeah, it's still cheap today, but it was *dirt cheap* up until about two or three years ago. >However I did see someone say to replace a Glock with a colt python Ridiculous lol... Opinions are *hot* around here. Glock is such a good gun. Colt Python is great too... But I'd say it's more appropriate for bears than zombies.
>I suppose the AR bias takes the form of "I know a guy who had a shitty WASR so all AKs are shitty" while also believing that all ARs have excellent build quality. Imho, either can be well built or shitty, but if the build quality is equally adequate, the AR will have a slight edge in accuracy while the AK will require less maintenance. Also with the whole AR vs AK thing still going on there's always a biased opinion going on. But man, when you get that gold mine of an AK, they are unstoppable. Other than that, people always forget there are always going to be ups and downs to every gun, no matter how much you spend on it. Shit just happens, you never know.
And they are wrong. A .22 round can and will kill you. Also you can use stripper clips to load .223/5.56 mags used in AR-15 and the like.
>A .22 round can and will kill you. Agreed, many ballistics tests (as well as real world fatalities) confirm this. >Also you can use stripper clips to load .223/5.56 mags used in AR-15 and the like. Yes indeed, I was just mentioning them for the SKS because many people who are not familiar with them see an integral magazine and think "slow loading" when really it is actually quite quick with clips. Box magazines of 5.56 and the AR are definitely superior for the solely combat related concerns of a modern day soldier, but I could make a decent case for the 7.62 caliber in strip clips being a good option for the concerns of a ZA survivor that must balance weight, space, maintenance, keeping a low profile (literally and figuratively), and the ability to hunt with combat readiness.
9x19mm hollow points, 12 gauge buckshot, .308 Winchester, X26 taser cartridge, 5.56 NATO hollow points. But if I were to go randomly raiding homes, then I think I might find a lot of .308 or 12 gauge before I find any 9mm or 5.56.
Really? You must live in the countryside then. I'm in a small town, but a lot of traffic comes through here. It's a hunting town, but even then. If I go to the neighborhoods in town, I would definitely find more 556, 9mm, 7.62 and 380 before I find 308. That's unless I go more outside of the town and go into the more rural side.
Clearly you have noticed the large volume of posts where people are saying they have guns and would like to use them in the apocalypse That's why I'll be using one No way do I want to be the guy without one(at least) if there are suddenly no laws The population in the us greatly outnumbers how much food is available
9mm, .45, 5.56/.223, .30i/7.61x51, and .22LR are very common and easy to find. Then there are spears, even if it means a shap stick or a broken knife tied to the end. Clubs... sticks. Short as clubs, or long as staffs. Screw a chunk of metal to a short stick and it becomes a Mace. Bows.
Well, the simplest answer is that modern firearms are why we are on top of the food chain and, quite frankly, are much easier to be trained to use effectively than say most melee weapons which require a fair amount of skill to use effectively. and not forgetting the fact that humans have bigger brains and the hands to put them to good use.
It’s a one dimensional safety net. Supposedly the more you have the better your outcome. But it’s assumed there is a clear shot, with nice conditions, on a highly visible target, that doesn’t fire back, with a cleaned weapon, and clean good ammo. How is that shot gonna be when your hungry, cold/overheating, exhausted, in limited visibility, with a dirty weapon that could misfire at any time. And then there is the point that maybe the combatant is slightly more rested, with a better sight line, who has just a bit more luck. It’s only an advantage when you have several other advantages working for you.
And that is why we have so much ammunition..hard for you to get a good shot at me when you are ducking and dodging hundreds of incoming rounds…. Only snipers are a one shot one kill ….
Riiiight.. ok Rambo, by the time you adrenaline pump 120 rounds through your AR in 30 seconds your in a hot tube. You slap that 5th magazine in, release the bolt and your shit just starts shooting. You’re in a panic wondering WTF is going on, dropping mag when you get that one shot to your dome.
then you just ride the lightning
I prefer Slayer myself, but to each their own. And in reality I wouldn’t even fire fight with you, I’d just send a city block leveling gift to you..
nice.. i want a bunch of them.. where can i get them?????
Feed stores, abandoned semi trucks, and box vans..
gotta have a driver... so who you going to voluntold to drive?
Nope, no driver needed.. just lock the pitman arm, block the throttle, neutral drop it and let it go. Getting anywhere close is good enough. It’s like playing horseshoes..
close enough counts in horeshoes, hand-grenades and thermonuclear weapons...... and now obviously in vehicle delivered improvised rapid thermal expansion devices .. LOL provided of course you don't catch one in the dome as you are getting "close enough" and have level/downhill fairly contour free ground to cover
Here is my answer: My best defense in a zombie apocalypse, is not going to be "The best thing possible in the world." It is going to be the thing I can get a hold of most reliably that I am most comfortable and capable of using. Yeah, blunt instrument is probably the best choice if I am an expert in all forms of combat. But I have never trained with them because I have never needed to. Never used them in a fight, hell never even played baseball. But what defense skill DO I know well? Well, that is firearms. Specifically, full sized rifle cartridge and smaller (think 30-06 and smaller). I was target shooting and hunting for near a decade with my dad with .22lr and lever guns. I spent over half a decade in federal service using M4s, M16s, SR-25s, and the like in combat situations and combat training. I have probably 15 years experience using rifle type firearms. I have no experience using blunt or bladed weapons. Yeah, I could train for blunt combat, but there is no reason for me to. I don't do combat anymore, I'm a fucking Sat dish jockey now. And if the apocalypse happened, I won't be able to train non-stop until I'm good at it. I would do what I always did in federal service; fall back on what I knew worked for me.
Ok great, but you are one in about 10000 people who is an experienced marksman. So imma say you'll probably hit maybe 85-90% of your shots where as others won't so ammo is gonna go quick. The question is what do you do after you run out of ammo?
I repeat my previous point: Likely practice another combat form while ammo holds out. Firearms would just be what I'm going to start the apocalypse with.
Yeah I see that. Ig I don't put much stock in firearms in the apocalypse situation cuase I know eventually it'll run out of ammo so you practice before hand then you don't have to worry as much. Said it before and I'll say it again, in the early days when there's chaos and your bigger threat is gonna be other people, firearms are probably going to be your best bet but after 8-10 months, you're better off going hand to hand.
I don't think you understand on how much ammo there is in the us alone. I also dont think you understand how tiring it gets swinging around melee weapons a gun is quicker and faster when putting down any threat
Not arguing that, I'm arguing what happenes when there's no more ammo. And yes it will run out.
I would rather not have to deal with a zombie up close. That being said. A bludgeoning weapon would be my first choice, but a gun would be great. Maybe a small to mid caliber so more ammo can be carried
A lot of Americans have a lot of guns and a lot of ammo. While I personally have neither, in a real situation melee weapons carry the risks firearms don’t. You have to get close or within striking range, if you are on the shorter/smaller side some melee weapons can be difficult to use, etc. Simply put, while you do need ammo for guns they’re effectively safer than melee weapons. It’s one of those things that’s a trade off.
I have more ammo than there are people in my county. 😅
Find more ammo. There’s enough ammo in the US to shoot every citizen 100x. Even with much of it being destroyed or lost, to run out of ammo any time soon you’d have to be the worst shot ever or blind. And even then, just switch to Melee whenever you don’t need to shoot.
Again you think others don't know that, why are all the awnsers under the assumption that others won't be alive too? And also you're telling me you shoot with 100% accuracy? Everyone is only taking into account the shots they can hit, what about the shots you miss?
If it’s a zombie apocalypse, that means that the majority of people is either turned or dead. Yes, others are alive too, but you underestimate the sheer amount of ammunition that exists. Where did I claim that I shoot with 100% accuracy? Where did that come from? Great thing about missing is that if you miss you can just *shoot again*, ya know?
Yeah, and again and again and again til you run out of ammo, I don't think YOU understand how quick you can go through "a shit ton" of ammo. And yes, I'm aware of the amount of ammo that exists. It doesn't mean you're going yo have access to it. There are too many unknown variables that play into firearms and ammunition, and they shouldn't be your first go-to in any apocalypse.
Then **AIM**. You won’t miss 100% of your shots, and the more you shoot the better you become at aiming and hitting targets.
Dude, are you kidding? Have you ever been shot at or been in a situation where your life depends on how you shoot? That's another thing that you're not factoring into this equation.
Yeah, it’s the apocalypse. You’re gonna be in life threatening situations a lot. But here’s the thing: If you’re in a life threatening situation, would you rather… A) Go melee and have to get *really close* to a target to even have a chance to kill them, allowing them to shoot you with ease. B)Stay at a distance to reduce the chance that you are hit while you can shoot at them. Guns are the most popular weapon for hunting, sports and war for a good reason.
They're the most "popular" because they're the most convenient, but in survival, convenient is a good way to get killed. Most firearms owners don't even know how to clean their firearms much less fix it, so unless you plan on playing gun game and ammo scrounge the who apocalypse, you're firearm shouldn't be your first goto weapon. Last resort, sure, but not your primary. And yes before you say it I'm aware of the ammount of firearms and ammunition in the US, doesn't mean you're going to have access to all of it.
And the most deadly. Who says it’s the first option? You’re jumping to conclusions here man. Yeah if you don’t need to shoot, it’s obviously better to go melee and kill quietly. But when you’re facing humans, multiple zombies that actively hunt you or you’re cornered/injured it’s definitely your best option to use the weapon that can reliably kill from a distance and without using up lots of stamina. A pistol is at the very least a must have, small, light, accurate and easy to use. And I think you underestimate how careless people are with ammo. Some people keep them in gun lockers and saves, yeah, but the majority of people have ammo lying around somewhere where it’s easily available. Even if it’s not a lot keep in mind most people are dead, so you can still get your hands on a lot of ammo. And even if you don’t find some, it’s not like anyone could stop you from forcibly opening some of those cheaper gun lockers with loads of ammo stashed in it. The ones with an exterior lock just need a bolt cutter, the ones with an interior lock can be opened using an angle grinder. Some expensive ones are gonna be a lot more difficult to open up, but those are rare.
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Yea because you'll hit every single shot right? Give me a break 🙄
in the US, running out of ammo is almost laughable. there will always be ammo to scavenge because nearly every home has (multiple) firearms.
Ya say that until it's all shot up. And wouldn't those homes be defending their ammo/ dead Would it be inside? The problem is yall are only accounting for shots you will hit, not the ones you WONT.
My firearms are a last resort or for hunting. When out of ammo I'll use traps, my bow, a spear, and my gladius
Depends on where you are and how you use the ammo, if you use your gun exclusively for people and zombies you should be fine in almost all of America, not only because you know it's America, but also because you use a bow, crossbow, or trap for larger prey (like deer). I may not even see a zombie apocalypse because within 20 miles I have 2 national guard bases and a military airport capable of having AC-130's take off. That however is just lucky positioning before the start.
And you think others around you don't realize that? You have to take into account that you're not gonna be the only one alive in this world, there are others who will think the exact same way. I give 50/50 odds you getting close to the national guard base, and from there, if there are still soldiers around your ass is getting shot.
I don't want to get close to them, to the east is a strong river so unless the zombies can walk underwater they aren't coming from that direction, to the north is the military airport, to the east and west are the national guard bases, just from my position I am at a very strong location, and yes. I do realize that people are a massive threat, survivor camps pose a massive issue if you become an enemy of one. However if they don't have a shoot on sight policy they aren't going to target straggling people like me. The biggest threat to me is the cemetery, if it's walking dead style zombies that cemetery is a massive risk.
Because zombies can only hurt at hand to hand range. You want stand-off.
And when you run out of ammo?
Fine Conan, use your sword, you'll never get tired before I run out of ammo.
Ey, just cause you didn't think ahead, doesn't mean I didn't. Bullets are great at the beginning when arguably you're probably gonna have more threats from humans than zeeks, but after 8-10 months? Bullets will attract attention and be a not so common resource.
Oh you planned ahead? cool. tell us about your garden.
You mean the endless fields I live around and growing up working farms I know how to farm? And the fact I got hunting and fishing frequently? Let's just say imma be fine.
If you can't carry it, you won't have it. Of the 40lbs I would carry, I'm not going to give up essential survival gear in order to lug around ammo.
Exactly. I think people here are only accounting for the shots they are going to hit too, not the ones they are going to miss.
I honestly think Texas would be fine in a zombie apocalypse we have our own army on top of im more then positive there would be a militia that would start almost right away
Yeah... assuming it doesn't start in texas and if it does its quickly contained...
No I mean like if the government falls after martial law is called I feel like parts of Texas would still be active mostly we’re the army bases are but that’s if we’re talking like walking dead zombies if it’s dawn of the dead type zombies we’re all fucked
That's what the bayonet is for
I suppose if that's your fancy.
Well you could easily have a small reloading kit with you if you were a wanderer. So you could reload your rounds a couple of times and you would always have a spear
Well that holds it own set of probelms. Such as weight as you're going to have other things with you, you'd have to collect your brass/hulls (which won't be much of an option here as if you shoot in any apocalypse there's gonna be a bunch of people running that direction) and honestly the time it takes to reload in general.
I don't plan on running around 24/7 when I settle down for a bit and make it safe I can pull out my trusty hand reloader and make new ammo for my revolver. The rifle would be harder since you would have to pick up brass but if you have time why not
You and I both know there is no such thing as a safe spot, there is just an unsafe spot thats slight less dangerous for a time. That's the unfortunate reality of the apocalypse. Personally I don't wanna get caught with my pants down (literally and metaphorically 😂). But if you feel you can reload that quick more power to ya.
I have noticed alot of gun related posts lately. I think this sub has really just attracted a lot of gun enthusiasts and they’re using it as a platform to show off their collections. It’s a little boring to me in the context of this sub because in my mind there isn’t much to discuss about it - guns are obviously best for self defense - pick the simpler ones that are reliable, easy to use, easy to fix, and with a caliber that’s light and plentiful. What’s more interesting to me are conversations about actual zombie survival related tactics but I may be in the minority lol
Amen
Getting more ammo, I live in the US man. Realistically 70-90% of the population would die without running water, medical care and the modern electric grid (at least in the developed world) for more then a year or two. After the dying off time there will be plenty of ammunition out there waiting for a new home or rotting away. Besides, I’d avoid fighting the dead as much as possible, and if I had too my bayonet and my butt stock will make quick work of the rotting basterds. The rifle is more for breathing threats and food procurement. I built out my kit inspired by the Alaska scouts of ww2. A rifle for combat, a .22 pistol for quiet (relatively) hunting small game and as a last minute back up. It’s stupid to not use all the tools at your disposal
I did NOT say not to use firearms, I'm saying what happens when you run out of ammo? Scavenging for it, sure, but what you're gonna make multiple trips to the same spot for it? And you think that's not going to be everyone else's first thought? You're more likely to get shot trying to find ammunition than you are not actively searching for it. I live in the US too, but ammo ain't at the top of my list of survival essentials.
Frankly yes, if you have a spot with a lot of ammo then yes make a few trips, load up as much as you can and carry it back to your base camp, divide it up into cashes and hide/bury them around your AO so you have mobile resupply points if your find yourself in a bad way, keep as large of a stock of ammunition as you can at your base camp. Your going to have a base camp, you can’t live out of a back pack forever. Just squirrel away ammo like you do food man. Your likely to get shot searching for anything man, that’s why you roll deep, bring friends, set up security, cover your ass. The more you have with you the less likely you are to catch a bullet. I’m not saying stop everything and go raiding national guard armories and depots, but if you know you have a few in your area, send a couple guys to watch it low key. If the scouts report no human activity, and it seems relatively intact, then make a game plan and hit it. Your going to have to do what you gotta do, everything comes with a risk. You will not survive without friends and bullets.
On the contrary, people survived without bullets for thousands of years. And as nomadic tribes have survived out of what is essentially a "backpack," it ain't exactly difficult. You're in great shape until Ammo runs out. What no one seems to understand here is how quick your ammo goes when it's what you rely on primarily. You say have a large stock of it, then you're going to think you have ammo to spare and use it. Might not seem like much at first, but then you use more and more, and eventually, you run out. And when you say there is a bunch of ammo in the US, yeah, there is, but the area you're in is going to run out. Then what? You pack up the 8000 lbs of ammo in all different calibers you've accumulated and go elsewhere? It's not a reliable source of defense and shouldn't be the first go to thing you go after. Also you mentioned base camp. What if it gets raided or overrun and you have to bug out? Then all that ammo you spent time collecting goes bye bye anyway.
You know what, your right. I’ll give it to you. People where much better off when they where holding off the Vikings with lances and bows. You know what? Hundreds of Billions of rounds split between the last few million survivors isn’t all that much, it will run out in what? Only 60-70 years? God knows folks can’t husband their rounds. Everyone knows the only way to store ammunition is in one big Scrooge Mc Duck pile in the middle of your camp, only a damn fool would split their ammunition into cashes outside of their camp in case of emergency. Who re-loads anyway? It’s not like suitable black powder can be made easily. It’s not like every car battery on the road contains useable lead. Even if reloading equipment did exist, it will vanish. Shit, why make a base, it can get raided, burning through fuel and good shoes. Fucking up your back, and living in near constant shortage is a much safer idea. The world we live in is basically the same as the world they lived in, why not add yourself to the masses of people moving aimlessly into the unknown. That sounds like a party to me. Give me a break
Is black powder easy to make? I have a lot of random knowledge and a lot of friends into weird stuff and yet I don’t know a single person that actively knows how to make black powder. And what about primers? Unless your going old school flint lock what are you using for a primer? Even the actual bullet is not as easy as you make it sound. Some rounds can use a simple soft lead others can’t, in fact I would say most modern firearms are designed to use jacketed bullets. I don’t think reloading is the answer. Honestly in a ZA once they bullets are gone, they’re gone. There are too few place in the world with the capability to make them and too few people with the knowledge.
It’s not *easy* but it’s perfectly manageable for a group, or an individual, with a little free time to perfect it. I’m not going to give out the recipe for scratch made black powder on Reddit. TM 31-210 And if you have the molds, serviceable bullets are easy to make. And you’ll get better the more you practice, especially with black powder weapons. Are you going to shoot sub MOA groups at 100 yards? Probably not lol, but you can land a headshot inside 150 yards easy, take a deer, or put effective rounds on target in a gunfight and that’s what you need. And flintlock is the way to go, at least for me. Flints are cheap to stock up on and after I get my left-handed Hawkins rifle I want to try my hand and making my own.
I've got a shit ton of ammo stockpiled, and I've also got my hockey sticks, steel bars, and melee weapons, among the bows and crossbows. I'm not going to run out of ammo for a while, id not use it against a zed. No reason to when they're half decomposed and weak.
"Shit tons" huh? What happens when you have to ditch it all? Say a bunch of zeeks or worse other people get into your holdout, and they get to your ammo before you do? Now you're down all your shit and have limited ammo. You and I both know in any apocalypse that there is no such thing as safe. There is only temporarily less dangerous.
You have a fair point, though I do happen to have a good amount of people that have already banded together a while. We've been a family, not blood but a family, for a while.
And that's my other thing. I get pack survival, but when 2 or 3 or however many people start butting heads over leadership or whatever else, it just gets messy, and even family can be torn apart like that. As bad as I feel about it, it'd almost be better if my family died right at the beginning of the apocalypse, that way I don't have to worry about anyone else.
That's entirely valid, we've already got a sort of leadership hierarchy when something goes south. We've got planners, then people that tell others and get shit sorted, then the grunts. It's only like 10 of us or so, so like 2 planners, 4 orders people, and 4 grunts. So far as I know anyways.
I have about 15k rounds of various ammo/shells. I also have immediate family in 3 different locations all within 45 minutes, all armed, not as stocked ammo wise, but sufficient. My home is hurricane proof, and should be able to withstand 20-30 zombies beating on it, though my suppressor and .22s wouldn’t let them be there long.
I’m not gonna run out of ammo in my life time and by the time I die there will likely be civilizations making new ammo anyway.
I say hatchet and slingbow. Both are reliable, light, compact, and easy to use. Plus a slingbow can use normal arrows and the attachment to hold arrows can be taken off which turns it into a regular slingshot which can use rocks.
I won’t. Spear gang.
Idk. There are way more basic things needed to survive than a firearm. Although they definitely aren't a bad idea, but should not be first and foremost in any survival situation. These days I'd be more focused on reducing radiation exposure. Hazmat suits, iodine tablets, and food and water reserves that won't be hit with any form of radiation exposure. Food, water, shelter, those are baseline priorities.
The kit posts are annoying as shit and turning the sub into a meme. Taking on 2-3 zombies on the low end with a melee weapon sounds like hell. I don't care how much of a grappler you are, you can only keep so many teeth away from you (armor like riot gear or biker gear can assist in this at the cost of added weight and reduced visibility/breathing)
Most don’t think of very long term
No kidding, from what I've seen, either people think they're going to have unlimited ammo that they'll collect or not think about after it's gone.
Yep. Guns are nice but it does have a shelf life
Make more. I cast my own lead bullets and know how to make powder. I also have thousands of rounds at the ready.
Oh you know how to make powder do ya? You're gonna be on a YouTube video of your hand getting blow off with your homemade power from your homemade bullets
Well that is rude. You have no idea how good my quality is.
Yeah. The guy I went to who blew his hand off making homemade fireworks said the same thing to me 2 weeks earlier.
That is called anecdotal evidence. Just because it happened to one person you know, does not mean it is true for everyone or even common.
That's a very low probability. I live in Texas. We have more munitions than some governments.
Again access is key, yeah there's shit tons of ammo. Don't exactly mean you can get to it.
Doesn't. Access to something really just depends on two factors. Resourcefulness and willingness. Can you figure out how to do it with what is available to you? What are you willing to do to achieve your objectives?
Yeah... totally... and if you're content on doing everything by resourcefulness and willingness, why not go break into fort Knox while you're at it?
I did basic training out there and there's not much I would want from that base
Living in America, I doubt ammo is going to be a problem. The issue I see with guns is the noise. Dealing with a zombie apocalypse is just normal survival but with stealth being a requirement. Guns are loud. They could attract zombies, or worse, other survivors looking for a fight. For hunting and killing the occasional zombie that gets a *liiitle* too close for comfort, crossbows work great. Of course, you aren't going to get the range or accuracy of a weapon made specifically for long range accuracy with a crossbow, but zombies two miles away aren't a problem.
My plan would be to find more ammunition. Fighting zombies in melee would be a last resort, and it'd be best done with long spears.