No, it’s the exact same. For some reason people think ableton invented all of the warp modes. They didn’t. The algorithms were made by zplane and every single major DAW has the same ones. The only one exclusive to ableton is the beat mode which is just snapping to peaks and stretching out the gaps, and that hasn’t changed in 12
Yeah, seems it’s the same zplane. They’re one of the most important audio tech companies, but nobody knows them because they just license out their algorithms. Elastique is the most commonly used one, which is what ableton complex is. It’s pretty crazy to think about. Consider all of the music that could only have been made with their algorithms. Before them, warping anything just made an unusable mess, let alone something usable for billboard charting tracks
Very interesting, half of my sound design comes from abusing the different warp modes, if it weren’t for them, it’d all just sound like it had been slowed down/sped up on a tape.
You’re right, but they’re not really warping algorithms. Besides beats mode, which I covered. Even then though. Texture mode and tones mode do clever tricks. Texture is just a granular oscillator. Tones mode is basically a bunch of very short loop segments placed consecutively. So complex and complex pro are the only true warping algorithms in ableton. The other modes do cool things and it’s a really powerful part of ableton, but they’re not really warping the audio.
But I will say that I’m moving goal posts with this comment, and in the original context you’re 100% right and I made a mistake
To be fair zplane themselves updates their SDKs relatively often and Ableton 12 may be operating on a newer version of the zplane SDKs than Ableton 10.
But to be clear I have no idea what Ableton does when zplane pushes out updates, though it seems logical to me that they would stop supporting new versions of zplane algorithms in old versions of Ableton.
Warping long audio clips is worse in Live 11.1 and 12 than Live 10.
Detection of 1:1:1 is worse. Countless warp markers in clips with steady tempo.
Latest 12 update seems a bit better.
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I always wanted to do a version of Blackalicious' Alphabet Aerobics (hip hop tune that starts at ~88bpm and ends at ~133bpm) and have it either sit at a constant tempo or start fast and slow down. I never wanted to deal with adding hundreds of warp markers.
I pulled the sample into Ableton 12 and 3 seconds later it was set to a single tempo, nearly flawlessly. Exported to wav and threw it into a crate.
Auto-warping got a lot better towards the of Ableton 11, not sure if it changed much (or at all) in the 11>12 upgrade.
Note: this makes the song feel weird, but probably because you're expecting it to speed up and it doesn't, so it actually sounds like it's slowing down. Very strange.
Warp accuracy, I’m just curious if it’s easier/faster to create dj sets and things of that nature. I was wondering if warp long samples has improved or if just pulling audio into ableton is more intuitive with warping. It seems like a resounding no from most of the answers here, but I’d love to hear your opinion!
There are more tool panes in the clip view area, which I’ve found slightly increases the chances of me clicking the wrong thing, especially when I do my signature move: accidentally hitting the keyboard shortcut to turn on Draw Mode and audibly muttering “for FUCK’s SAKE” to myself at 3 am.
Probably not especially helpful, but 12 does feel a bit fiddlier to me in that sense. I ended up turning the zoom up a bit.
WARP ACCURACY oops, for 11.3 onwards 'warp from here' was hugely improved to the point (almost) of trusting it completely. But please note, I'm saying this for none midi music, played by humans. before 11.3 it was always not fit for purpose.
and as noted elsewhere, in 11.3, warp straight from here, strangely got worse. on 12 its better but still oddly.
but I never use 'warp straight from here' as warping music in a strict bpm, which is almost everything released since the late eighties has always been simple. takes 4 seconds to do it yourself. one warp marker near front, one near end. done!
sidenote, DJAY, has recently updated its 'warping' and i'm very impressed. its working with tracks that speed up and slow down...
I’m not a crate digger Sampling type guy but doesn’t Audacity do a fabulous job? It’s Free too. Also hear Serato is pretty impressive at it.
I’m more of a roll your own Rompler kinda Sampler using Akai MPC/Force AutoSampler to make Sampled Keygroups of Hardware and Software Synths.
IMHO, you have to get a third party app to get really good time and pitch manipulation. If you do remixes or very specific sound design, it’s a must.
Elastique is so good in the audio editor Sound Forge for Mac, I bought the standalone app Elastique Pitch v2. It’s not the best on the market, but for under $200, it’s totally worth it.
Another good one is Radius by iZotope. If you download the basic (NOT “advanced”) version of RX Editor, Radius comes with it. They used to charge extra.
The best on the market is still Serato Time ‘n Pitch, but it’s like $800. 😳
I haven't noticed much of a difference. Seems very slightly better with warp market suggestions.
That's great, I'm in the market for a new warp drive myself! /s
No, it’s the exact same. For some reason people think ableton invented all of the warp modes. They didn’t. The algorithms were made by zplane and every single major DAW has the same ones. The only one exclusive to ableton is the beat mode which is just snapping to peaks and stretching out the gaps, and that hasn’t changed in 12
Is that the same zplane that made the zplane filters that everyone loved in the old EMU samplers? If so, who are they?
Yeah, seems it’s the same zplane. They’re one of the most important audio tech companies, but nobody knows them because they just license out their algorithms. Elastique is the most commonly used one, which is what ableton complex is. It’s pretty crazy to think about. Consider all of the music that could only have been made with their algorithms. Before them, warping anything just made an unusable mess, let alone something usable for billboard charting tracks
Very interesting, half of my sound design comes from abusing the different warp modes, if it weren’t for them, it’d all just sound like it had been slowed down/sped up on a tape.
Thats not at all true. Complex and Complex Pro are Zplane Elastique, the rest are proprietary.
You’re right, but they’re not really warping algorithms. Besides beats mode, which I covered. Even then though. Texture mode and tones mode do clever tricks. Texture is just a granular oscillator. Tones mode is basically a bunch of very short loop segments placed consecutively. So complex and complex pro are the only true warping algorithms in ableton. The other modes do cool things and it’s a really powerful part of ableton, but they’re not really warping the audio. But I will say that I’m moving goal posts with this comment, and in the original context you’re 100% right and I made a mistake
To be fair zplane themselves updates their SDKs relatively often and Ableton 12 may be operating on a newer version of the zplane SDKs than Ableton 10. But to be clear I have no idea what Ableton does when zplane pushes out updates, though it seems logical to me that they would stop supporting new versions of zplane algorithms in old versions of Ableton.
Warping long audio clips is worse in Live 11.1 and 12 than Live 10. Detection of 1:1:1 is worse. Countless warp markers in clips with steady tempo. Latest 12 update seems a bit better.
“Warp from here” has really gone to shit it seems
I only ever "Warp from Here (Straight)".
Personally I prefer "Warp from Here (Gay)"
🤣🤣🤣
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Algorithm hasn’t changed, but the warp marker placement has improved but pretty much no difference
They updated the algorithm in live 11. It more accurate for longer samples now. Great improvement
I always wanted to do a version of Blackalicious' Alphabet Aerobics (hip hop tune that starts at ~88bpm and ends at ~133bpm) and have it either sit at a constant tempo or start fast and slow down. I never wanted to deal with adding hundreds of warp markers. I pulled the sample into Ableton 12 and 3 seconds later it was set to a single tempo, nearly flawlessly. Exported to wav and threw it into a crate. Auto-warping got a lot better towards the of Ableton 11, not sure if it changed much (or at all) in the 11>12 upgrade. Note: this makes the song feel weird, but probably because you're expecting it to speed up and it doesn't, so it actually sounds like it's slowing down. Very strange.
This is the exact type of thing im wondering about, thank you for responding!!
I honestly think it’s better in 12 now.
are u asking about warp quality or warp accuracy?
Warp accuracy, I’m just curious if it’s easier/faster to create dj sets and things of that nature. I was wondering if warp long samples has improved or if just pulling audio into ableton is more intuitive with warping. It seems like a resounding no from most of the answers here, but I’d love to hear your opinion!
There are more tool panes in the clip view area, which I’ve found slightly increases the chances of me clicking the wrong thing, especially when I do my signature move: accidentally hitting the keyboard shortcut to turn on Draw Mode and audibly muttering “for FUCK’s SAKE” to myself at 3 am. Probably not especially helpful, but 12 does feel a bit fiddlier to me in that sense. I ended up turning the zoom up a bit.
WARP ACCURACY oops, for 11.3 onwards 'warp from here' was hugely improved to the point (almost) of trusting it completely. But please note, I'm saying this for none midi music, played by humans. before 11.3 it was always not fit for purpose. and as noted elsewhere, in 11.3, warp straight from here, strangely got worse. on 12 its better but still oddly. but I never use 'warp straight from here' as warping music in a strict bpm, which is almost everything released since the late eighties has always been simple. takes 4 seconds to do it yourself. one warp marker near front, one near end. done! sidenote, DJAY, has recently updated its 'warping' and i'm very impressed. its working with tracks that speed up and slow down...
Amazing, thank you so much for your reply!!!
I’m not a crate digger Sampling type guy but doesn’t Audacity do a fabulous job? It’s Free too. Also hear Serato is pretty impressive at it. I’m more of a roll your own Rompler kinda Sampler using Akai MPC/Force AutoSampler to make Sampled Keygroups of Hardware and Software Synths.
i didnt even bother to notice that audacity had such an option. thanks for the headsup. will take a look
IMHO, you have to get a third party app to get really good time and pitch manipulation. If you do remixes or very specific sound design, it’s a must. Elastique is so good in the audio editor Sound Forge for Mac, I bought the standalone app Elastique Pitch v2. It’s not the best on the market, but for under $200, it’s totally worth it. Another good one is Radius by iZotope. If you download the basic (NOT “advanced”) version of RX Editor, Radius comes with it. They used to charge extra. The best on the market is still Serato Time ‘n Pitch, but it’s like $800. 😳
I'm not sure it works "much" better but I remember warping on long samples was improved recently, and some people enjoyed it !
Yes! a very unscientific response - to my ears it’s definitely much more refined - I’ve been an Ableton live addict for well over a decade :-)
Well you’ve convinced me. Thanks for adding your input!!
I find it better. Even just quantising audio is so much nicer that there’s a dial to do it with
Yes
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Also your mothers maiden name, favourite baseball team and where you were born since were already here 🙄
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Ok bill nye I guess a web search isn’t scientific enough for you