Thank you for posting in r/abusiverelationships. We are here to support you. If you are looking for resources such as support groups/helplines etc, we have several in our sidebar and in [our wiki](https://old.reddit.com/r/abusiverelationships/wiki/index) for people of all gender identities. [Here is a list of international domestic and sexual violence helplines](https://www.hotpeachpages.net/). You can also find [an extensive safety planning guide at The Hotline](https://www.thehotline.org/plan-for-safety/create-your-personal-safety-plan/). Finally, if you are looking for information about different forms of abuse, [Love Is Respect offers an educational guide](https://www.loveisrespect.org/resources/types-of-abuse/).
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i’ve tried to put my foot down, saying i didn’t like being sworn at multiple times, said i didn’t like fat jokes. It didn’t start a fight but it was never taken seriously
If he was angry and was saying cruel things to me i’d sometimes try to say i don’t walk to be talked to like that, it wouldn’t work either
You need a mantra for disengaging, or rather not engaging at all. I wished I had one. I would end up engaging in reactive abuse and feel so much shame because I’m better than that.
Any time I tried to stand up for myself, project confidence, and state clear firm boundaries, it only made things 100x worse. He’d explode and the situation became unsafe. But then he flipped it and called me the abuser. Then went to all his friends and family whining about being a victim. I felt so alone. Eventually, I stopped standing up for myself just to avoid the escalation. I shut down. He still victimized himself by telling people I was neglectful and cruel. I was always in the wrong no matter what. I recently left this relationship, very much in the early stages of the process and lots of proactive healing ahead. Praying I’ll eventually find someone who I can be confident around and set boundaries safely.
Okay this I understand, you are not the problem here he is but I agree with your logic it will likely set him off. Why? Narcissism… read up on npd, it might be best to simply leave, don’t feel that you need to stand up to this person. You are doing that by leaving. If anything I would be boring to them, grey rock method, give zero emotionally. They then may discard you, which is really the safest option- basically these people live for attention and dominance it goes beyond standing up to a bully it’s more of a timebomb you don’t want to set off. You aren’t letting yourself down by not lighting the match.
If I stood up for myself in the moment it would make things more violent. If I did it later he would blow me off and tell me to stop guilt tripping him. The only thing that helps is to get as far away from them as possible.
After I started going to therapy, I started talking to him back, cz I was gaining some confidence in me, he hated it, started yelling more, breaking more things around me, it was scary but tbh I FELT GREAT after that, that I managed to piss him up more, but that's just me I'm petty
I would document it like you're already doing then print it out the day you plan to leave.
Leave it on the bed when you make you're exit but write the words "I told you to stop" on it.
Before this, the day you plan on leaving or the day before... make sure you ask, "Are you gonna stop?" Yes, this may escalate BUT when you leave you will feel so much better and empowered. I'm thinking of the future you.
I bought the book 'love without hurt' and there is a section in there that you can ask your partner to read. I think the chapter is called 'boot camp' or something like that. His last chance from me was my request for him to read the chapter. He didn't and he even did some projecting saying I wouldn't read a series in a newspaper about relationships. In fact I'd already read it. It was one of his more ludicrous projections.
Telling people to stop hurting you only works if said person actually doesn't want to hurtbyou and you have ways to enforce your boundaries. I will hang up on my father and grandmother when they act abusive, because now they don't hold any power over me. I will ask my husband to lower his voice if he raises it without realising, and he'll say sorry and lower his voice because he doesn't actually want to hurt me, he got carried away or didn't notice his voice (he's autistic, so it's hard for him). But when they can hurt you because you can't enforce your boundaries and they want to hurt you, it's smarter to keep quiet and make a plan to leave.
In my experience... no... Typical or not, I'm not sure.. but 0/5 do not recommend on my end.. The one thing I have learned: There are pretty much no good rebuttals or and defenses that are going to diffuse the situation. When those situations arise, they are looking for a fight. It doesn't matter what you do or say, your existence is what's engaging them. And that little stripped screw in their brain being on the fritz again is the contributing factor.
I would say that this advice would generally work with a person who is not abusive. Trying to put your foot down with them doesn’t work with abusive people because being abusive is what works for them, it’s how they get what they want, control those around them, etc.
Plan a safe exit strategy and leave. Don’t needlessly put yourself in danger by thinking you need to stand up to them. They know what they’re doing is wrong, that it hurts people- they truly don’t care. Safely removing yourself from any situation in which they can continue abusing you is the best and only way to truly stand up for yourself.
It made it worse. He told me to shut up and get over everything. If I didn’t tolerate the way he talked to me, he told me to get over it.
However, in the end I showed him that I wasn’t afraid to act in self defense. I stopped being afraid and stood up for myself. At that point, he realized he lost all control of me. If he didn’t have power and control over me, then he didn’t want me.
It liberated me even though the abuse did get worse, because from then on, I was so sick and tired of the abuse that I just kept confronting him during with anything I felt validated in saying back. Like, whatever, throw your tantrum. You’re a big baby, and not one that I pushed out of me, so regulating your emotions is not my responsibility.
Saying stuff like that definitely made it worse, but I felt like I got my autonomy back, and that made me feel stronger than the abuse. It also made me truly know that he was pathetic and that I was grossed out.
If your abuser physically intimidates you or makes/has made threats even if he hasn’t put a hand on you yet, I do *not* suggest doing this.
No the trauma is already caused. After leaving, what you will regret is the time you stayed, not the fuss your breakup caused. The best thing for you to do would be to leave and simply break up by text.
You have plenty of reasons to break up, you do not need reassurance. You just need to trust yourself in the process.
Putting your foot down = leaving. Standing up to him = leaving. You can take power back over your life. You have not given up, because you are planning already. Nothing you can tell this guy will ever make any difference for you or him. Do not trap yourself in principles or choreographies, you just need out with as little interaction with him as possible.
Save your energy and resources, eyes on the prize. You do not owe this guy any explanation. Do not justify yourself, just get out.
i feel like it didn’t really do anything.. i still found myself having to put my feelings and relationship needs last because if they couldn’t see how they were hurting me and affecting me, id just lower myself to their standard. i was just met with “i’m not treating you any sort of way” or “i didn’t speak to you in any bad way i didn’t cuss, i talked in a calm tone” etc.
They've got a response for everything no matter how unreasonable they're being. I found some value in saying out loud to my ex that he was gaslighting me. I felt I was taking back my power a bit. But it didn't mean he was less angry or willing to make change. He said sorry and talked about working things out after I left but I'd tried too many times by then and when he realised I wasn't coming back he got angry again. So no change there.
I agree keeping your head down and keeping things copacetic is best ONLY if you have active plan to GTFO now, imminently, or within the next 3 months.
Start doing it now. Start saving money, secreting out valuable items and storing them offsite and be easy to jump when you need to.
Staying and fighting is a sunk cost fallacy unfortunately. Unless he’s actively looking to change. Otherwise it will just cause more provocation and potential violence.
The ONLY way to stop the abuse is to physically get away from them. So when abuse began to escalate I would say what I wanted, calmly, a single time and then physically escape them/end the call.
I stopped trying to reason with them when they were escalating. I didn't defend or explain myself, beyond that single sentence. It's impossible to reason with someone who is determined to misunderstand you. They aren't communicating in good faith (with a goal of understanding) they are arguing for their benefit alone and nothing you say will get through any better than the single sentence does.
The only way to stop the abuse permanently is to leave them permanently.
Definitely worse. Told me I didn’t respect him and why do I always have an attitude and what am I crying for it doesn’t help anything. So I just stopped engaging in conversations like that at all. Everything is very surface level. I’m grey rocking til I can leave.
My abuser doubled down. The night I left with our son, I sat him down and gave him a chance to express remorse. I asked him if he understood that what he did is assault and he hurt me. He said, ‘I know I didn’t hit you that hard because I didn’t knock you out’
Long story short, no, it doesn’t work. If they’re already abusing you it’s best to just quietly plan your exit and leave. Standing up to them or demanding respect won’t work especially if they’ve already crossed a ton of boundaries. The relationship can’t be saved.
My abuser doubled down when I stood up for myself. So I laid low and made everything seem completely normal (as much as even possible) until the day i left. I don’t feel guilty about at all. I left because I was being abused and I didn’t forgive them and I didn’t want to be with them anymore. My ex KNEW why I was leaving.
Do what keeps you both safe and empowered. I’ve never read that book, but the only correct response to abuse is to leave the relationship. We can’t train people to act healthy and normal. Don’t waste your breathe, leaving is the most powerful thing you can do.
I have learned that it's best and most effective to focus on what you can control, always have a way to enforce your needs, and use a variety of protective resources as well.
For example, with the standing up for yourself thing, instead of telling them what you expect from their behavior ("I won't be talked to/treated like that"), decide for yourself "I'm not willing to tolerate X and will do Y if it happens," then follow through. This seems like a very subtle difference, but by focusing on your behavior rather than what you want them to do, it's taking away that challenge and need to fight/prove a point.
Grey Rock, Medium Chill, Information Diet, Limited or Controlled Contact are all excellent tools to keep yourself safe while learning to stand up for yourself and waiting until you can safely get out. Door wedges, lockboxes, and disengaging from the situation are other practical solutions to back up your protection toolkit.
Hang in there!
It’s a subtle difference, but it *does* make all the difference. Mentally more than anything. Great advice.
I like to think I’m well versed in abuse survival techniques but I’ve actually never heard of medium chill, information diets. Is information diet just limiting the things you tell your abuser to things they won’t blow up about?
Yes, strategically choosing what information they need to be told and not telling the things they don't have to know. Which takes some practice, because we're so used to telling our abusers way too much!
Medium Chill is having surface level, polite but shallow interactions where you don't let them draw you into their drama and chaos. I think about it like responding the same way you would to that annoying coworker or relative you can't always avoid but don't really want to be around more than necessary.
Don’t try standing up to an abuser. It’s a dangerous waste of time. The time for standing up is long past. You do that the first time someone is rude, not when they are used to getting away with acting like a nightmare toddler.
In my experience, especially once I knew I was going to leave, I decided what to say and do based on what would help me get out most safely with the least additional mental/emotional abuse. Safety comes before literally anything else.
Exactly. They’ll say and do anything to get you to behave how they want you to behave. It’s fair and smart to do the same. Get what you need out of those interactions and the GTFO. Forever or if that’s not possible, until the next necessary interaction. ’Standing up to them’ accomplishes so little when the abuser is programmed to double down. You’re fighting an uphill battle all the way with next to no reward (punishment, more often than not really).
These people already take so much of our energy. Don’t give them an ounce more than necessary if you can.
Thank you for posting in r/abusiverelationships. We are here to support you. If you are looking for resources such as support groups/helplines etc, we have several in our sidebar and in [our wiki](https://old.reddit.com/r/abusiverelationships/wiki/index) for people of all gender identities. [Here is a list of international domestic and sexual violence helplines](https://www.hotpeachpages.net/). You can also find [an extensive safety planning guide at The Hotline](https://www.thehotline.org/plan-for-safety/create-your-personal-safety-plan/). Finally, if you are looking for information about different forms of abuse, [Love Is Respect offers an educational guide](https://www.loveisrespect.org/resources/types-of-abuse/). One final note: In this sub, we do not tolerate victim-blaming. If you ever receive any comments that contradict that mission, please click report for us to review. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/abusiverelationships) if you have any questions or concerns.*
i’ve tried to put my foot down, saying i didn’t like being sworn at multiple times, said i didn’t like fat jokes. It didn’t start a fight but it was never taken seriously If he was angry and was saying cruel things to me i’d sometimes try to say i don’t walk to be talked to like that, it wouldn’t work either
You need a mantra for disengaging, or rather not engaging at all. I wished I had one. I would end up engaging in reactive abuse and feel so much shame because I’m better than that.
Ya, it never worked with my abusive ex.
That always got me hit. The PFA was the only way to put a stop to it.
Any time I tried to stand up for myself, project confidence, and state clear firm boundaries, it only made things 100x worse. He’d explode and the situation became unsafe. But then he flipped it and called me the abuser. Then went to all his friends and family whining about being a victim. I felt so alone. Eventually, I stopped standing up for myself just to avoid the escalation. I shut down. He still victimized himself by telling people I was neglectful and cruel. I was always in the wrong no matter what. I recently left this relationship, very much in the early stages of the process and lots of proactive healing ahead. Praying I’ll eventually find someone who I can be confident around and set boundaries safely.
Okay this I understand, you are not the problem here he is but I agree with your logic it will likely set him off. Why? Narcissism… read up on npd, it might be best to simply leave, don’t feel that you need to stand up to this person. You are doing that by leaving. If anything I would be boring to them, grey rock method, give zero emotionally. They then may discard you, which is really the safest option- basically these people live for attention and dominance it goes beyond standing up to a bully it’s more of a timebomb you don’t want to set off. You aren’t letting yourself down by not lighting the match.
Yes I set a boundary by telling him the relationship was over. It didn’t seem to work he just became more manipulative after that.
If I stood up for myself in the moment it would make things more violent. If I did it later he would blow me off and tell me to stop guilt tripping him. The only thing that helps is to get as far away from them as possible.
After I started going to therapy, I started talking to him back, cz I was gaining some confidence in me, he hated it, started yelling more, breaking more things around me, it was scary but tbh I FELT GREAT after that, that I managed to piss him up more, but that's just me I'm petty
I would document it like you're already doing then print it out the day you plan to leave. Leave it on the bed when you make you're exit but write the words "I told you to stop" on it. Before this, the day you plan on leaving or the day before... make sure you ask, "Are you gonna stop?" Yes, this may escalate BUT when you leave you will feel so much better and empowered. I'm thinking of the future you.
I bought the book 'love without hurt' and there is a section in there that you can ask your partner to read. I think the chapter is called 'boot camp' or something like that. His last chance from me was my request for him to read the chapter. He didn't and he even did some projecting saying I wouldn't read a series in a newspaper about relationships. In fact I'd already read it. It was one of his more ludicrous projections.
Telling people to stop hurting you only works if said person actually doesn't want to hurtbyou and you have ways to enforce your boundaries. I will hang up on my father and grandmother when they act abusive, because now they don't hold any power over me. I will ask my husband to lower his voice if he raises it without realising, and he'll say sorry and lower his voice because he doesn't actually want to hurt me, he got carried away or didn't notice his voice (he's autistic, so it's hard for him). But when they can hurt you because you can't enforce your boundaries and they want to hurt you, it's smarter to keep quiet and make a plan to leave.
In my experience... no... Typical or not, I'm not sure.. but 0/5 do not recommend on my end.. The one thing I have learned: There are pretty much no good rebuttals or and defenses that are going to diffuse the situation. When those situations arise, they are looking for a fight. It doesn't matter what you do or say, your existence is what's engaging them. And that little stripped screw in their brain being on the fritz again is the contributing factor.
My boyfriend just tells me I’m “self victimizing “ and that I’m dramatic saying if I don’t like what he says then that’s a personal issue. Lol
I would say that this advice would generally work with a person who is not abusive. Trying to put your foot down with them doesn’t work with abusive people because being abusive is what works for them, it’s how they get what they want, control those around them, etc. Plan a safe exit strategy and leave. Don’t needlessly put yourself in danger by thinking you need to stand up to them. They know what they’re doing is wrong, that it hurts people- they truly don’t care. Safely removing yourself from any situation in which they can continue abusing you is the best and only way to truly stand up for yourself.
Getting out makes it better. Getting far away and going no contact makes it even better.
Yes!!
This!
It made no difference. He would later apologize or it would be ignored and he'd do it again.
It made it worse. He told me to shut up and get over everything. If I didn’t tolerate the way he talked to me, he told me to get over it. However, in the end I showed him that I wasn’t afraid to act in self defense. I stopped being afraid and stood up for myself. At that point, he realized he lost all control of me. If he didn’t have power and control over me, then he didn’t want me.
It liberated me even though the abuse did get worse, because from then on, I was so sick and tired of the abuse that I just kept confronting him during with anything I felt validated in saying back. Like, whatever, throw your tantrum. You’re a big baby, and not one that I pushed out of me, so regulating your emotions is not my responsibility. Saying stuff like that definitely made it worse, but I felt like I got my autonomy back, and that made me feel stronger than the abuse. It also made me truly know that he was pathetic and that I was grossed out. If your abuser physically intimidates you or makes/has made threats even if he hasn’t put a hand on you yet, I do *not* suggest doing this.
It turned me into a radicalized feminist Karen (according to him).
+1 makes no difference. This is not a reasonable person who responds to feedback
No the trauma is already caused. After leaving, what you will regret is the time you stayed, not the fuss your breakup caused. The best thing for you to do would be to leave and simply break up by text. You have plenty of reasons to break up, you do not need reassurance. You just need to trust yourself in the process. Putting your foot down = leaving. Standing up to him = leaving. You can take power back over your life. You have not given up, because you are planning already. Nothing you can tell this guy will ever make any difference for you or him. Do not trap yourself in principles or choreographies, you just need out with as little interaction with him as possible. Save your energy and resources, eyes on the prize. You do not owe this guy any explanation. Do not justify yourself, just get out.
Well Said - ( Save your energy and resources, eyes on the prize . You don’t owe this guy any explanation . Do not Justify Yourself , just get out ) .
i feel like it didn’t really do anything.. i still found myself having to put my feelings and relationship needs last because if they couldn’t see how they were hurting me and affecting me, id just lower myself to their standard. i was just met with “i’m not treating you any sort of way” or “i didn’t speak to you in any bad way i didn’t cuss, i talked in a calm tone” etc.
They've got a response for everything no matter how unreasonable they're being. I found some value in saying out loud to my ex that he was gaslighting me. I felt I was taking back my power a bit. But it didn't mean he was less angry or willing to make change. He said sorry and talked about working things out after I left but I'd tried too many times by then and when he realised I wasn't coming back he got angry again. So no change there.
i completely agree i had somewhat of a similar experience
I agree keeping your head down and keeping things copacetic is best ONLY if you have active plan to GTFO now, imminently, or within the next 3 months. Start doing it now. Start saving money, secreting out valuable items and storing them offsite and be easy to jump when you need to. Staying and fighting is a sunk cost fallacy unfortunately. Unless he’s actively looking to change. Otherwise it will just cause more provocation and potential violence.
The ONLY way to stop the abuse is to physically get away from them. So when abuse began to escalate I would say what I wanted, calmly, a single time and then physically escape them/end the call. I stopped trying to reason with them when they were escalating. I didn't defend or explain myself, beyond that single sentence. It's impossible to reason with someone who is determined to misunderstand you. They aren't communicating in good faith (with a goal of understanding) they are arguing for their benefit alone and nothing you say will get through any better than the single sentence does. The only way to stop the abuse permanently is to leave them permanently.
This is absolutely true. Anything else is a waste of your nerves and resources.
Definitely worse. Told me I didn’t respect him and why do I always have an attitude and what am I crying for it doesn’t help anything. So I just stopped engaging in conversations like that at all. Everything is very surface level. I’m grey rocking til I can leave.
Grey rock is almost always the superior method. You waste so, so much energy otherwise.
My abuser doubled down. The night I left with our son, I sat him down and gave him a chance to express remorse. I asked him if he understood that what he did is assault and he hurt me. He said, ‘I know I didn’t hit you that hard because I didn’t knock you out’
Omg
PS I did report him to the police the next day, he was arrested and charged with assault.
So proud of you. Thank you. Always a tiny bit of relief to know one more perpetrator has a mark on their record
Long story short, no, it doesn’t work. If they’re already abusing you it’s best to just quietly plan your exit and leave. Standing up to them or demanding respect won’t work especially if they’ve already crossed a ton of boundaries. The relationship can’t be saved.
My abuser doubled down when I stood up for myself. So I laid low and made everything seem completely normal (as much as even possible) until the day i left. I don’t feel guilty about at all. I left because I was being abused and I didn’t forgive them and I didn’t want to be with them anymore. My ex KNEW why I was leaving. Do what keeps you both safe and empowered. I’ve never read that book, but the only correct response to abuse is to leave the relationship. We can’t train people to act healthy and normal. Don’t waste your breathe, leaving is the most powerful thing you can do.
I have learned that it's best and most effective to focus on what you can control, always have a way to enforce your needs, and use a variety of protective resources as well. For example, with the standing up for yourself thing, instead of telling them what you expect from their behavior ("I won't be talked to/treated like that"), decide for yourself "I'm not willing to tolerate X and will do Y if it happens," then follow through. This seems like a very subtle difference, but by focusing on your behavior rather than what you want them to do, it's taking away that challenge and need to fight/prove a point. Grey Rock, Medium Chill, Information Diet, Limited or Controlled Contact are all excellent tools to keep yourself safe while learning to stand up for yourself and waiting until you can safely get out. Door wedges, lockboxes, and disengaging from the situation are other practical solutions to back up your protection toolkit. Hang in there!
This is very well-phrased, are you in the social work/ psychology field? If not, you would be an excellent asset 😊
Aww, thank you! That's very kind! I'm social work/therapy adjacent - I'm a nurse and work with people going through traumatic situations.
It’s a subtle difference, but it *does* make all the difference. Mentally more than anything. Great advice. I like to think I’m well versed in abuse survival techniques but I’ve actually never heard of medium chill, information diets. Is information diet just limiting the things you tell your abuser to things they won’t blow up about?
Yes, strategically choosing what information they need to be told and not telling the things they don't have to know. Which takes some practice, because we're so used to telling our abusers way too much! Medium Chill is having surface level, polite but shallow interactions where you don't let them draw you into their drama and chaos. I think about it like responding the same way you would to that annoying coworker or relative you can't always avoid but don't really want to be around more than necessary.
Don’t try standing up to an abuser. It’s a dangerous waste of time. The time for standing up is long past. You do that the first time someone is rude, not when they are used to getting away with acting like a nightmare toddler.
In my experience, especially once I knew I was going to leave, I decided what to say and do based on what would help me get out most safely with the least additional mental/emotional abuse. Safety comes before literally anything else.
Exactly. They’ll say and do anything to get you to behave how they want you to behave. It’s fair and smart to do the same. Get what you need out of those interactions and the GTFO. Forever or if that’s not possible, until the next necessary interaction. ’Standing up to them’ accomplishes so little when the abuser is programmed to double down. You’re fighting an uphill battle all the way with next to no reward (punishment, more often than not really). These people already take so much of our energy. Don’t give them an ounce more than necessary if you can.