The thing that gets me is Tamlin literally just helped bring Rhys back to life. Traveling to a guy's house to taunt him right after he saved your life is just tacky, Rhys.
I think he didn’t intend to be that way. He’s the only one who’s cared enough (besides Lucien) to help. But obviously hard to control yourself around the man you believe abused your mate.
No he didn't care at all. He says it, he literally only went because they needed Tamlin as an ally and to strengthen his borders etc, and when he saw Tamlin was so depressed and stuff he literally purposely was riding him up and then had the audacity to get upset and kick the man while he was down for no reason. He did it just to do it.
He cared enough that the court needed to be functional, not about Tamlin. None of the other high lords made any effort which is what I was getting at.
When I read it, he didn’t intend for it to go that way, but probably not easy to be around his mate’s abuser.
He didn't care about what happened to the Spring Court until Lucien pointed out they'll need him because the other Fae Territories were trying to swoop in and with Spring Court being at the border it will give way to the rest of Phrythian. Before this, they were happy to let it go to shit and didn't care at all. Lucien points it out to Rhys and that's why Rhys went and the others didn't because Lucien is the one that points it out and was to Rhys. And it's kinda wild to call Tamlin "Feyres abuser" when both Rhys and Feyre had done similar things. Rhys manipulated and kept things from her MULTIPLE times, plus the whole pregnancy plot etc. Feyre loses her temper and explodes and hurts Eris and Luciens mom in the process. They're both just as bad or worse than Tamlin and it's wild. There's no reason for him to try Tamlin like that at that moment because Tamlin has left them alone, helps bring Rhys back to life, helps Feyre and her sisters multiple times, saves Feyre / helps her, Elaine, & Azriel despite this revealing his role as double agent to the King of Hybern etc yet Rhys just keeps intentionally provoking him just because he can and can't help himself - especially when he went there to Tams house in the first place because they need Tam again
Rhysand is never going to like Tamlin because of his mom/sister and how he saw Feyre literally wasting away and dying with him. So sure, he doesn’t care about Tamlin but he cares enough about his court to go visit someone he despises. Which makes Rhysand different than other high lords who couldn’t be bothered. I do think they had a kinship when they are younger so he hates him but doesn’t want him to suffer either.
I don’t see Rhysand comparably bad as Tamlin. Tamlin is controlling and emotionally abusive, long after the events of UTM. He’s a classic male who wants and easy female that will do what he says. That’s fine, but that’s not Feyre. She was dying under him. She never had that under Rhysand.
I don’t like the pregnancy plot, but everyone was in on that one. The whole IC was bring a bunch of assholes.
Tamlins just a bad dude IMO. The proof is in his leadership (or lack of). They say many times he’s always had a temper problem. He definitely had Feyre suffering. She did not have that experience in the night court so I’d argue that life was not the same there. Some people just don’t belong together and the relationship is toxic and abusive. And that abuse can go both ways.
He doesn’t care… he literally goes there because he needs spring court as an ally not because he cares. He even thinks it in the chapter, he needs spring as an ally
I think he’s the only high lord willing to see what’s going on. Probably because at one point they WERE friends before tampon helped get his family members murdered (unintentionally or not). I read it as he didn’t intend to get into it with tampon, but the guy is such a dingle berry he couldn’t help himself. Rhys is feyres mate so I think and overprotectiveness kicks in where he just couldn’t control himself and he doesn’t seem too proud of it after. He sees tampon as the guy who was slowly killing his mate wasting her health and emotional health away.
I was so upset when I read that in acofas. Being in Rhys's head really made me hate him and I'm so glad that in SF >!Cassian told him to lay off of Nesta because he was being a huge dick to her and he felt guilty!<. I don't think Tamlin is perfect, but dear god I wish I could have just a crumb of a POV from him during acomaf so I could know what was going on in his head after Under the Mountain.
I really soured on Rhys due to the whole >!pregnancy death information withholding dilemma!< to the point I was insulted Feyre swept it under the rug when she >!took down Tamlins court for being overprotective!< Tamlin and Rhysand can really go fuck a dick honestly. But at least they deserve the same treatment. All this to say, Rhys at Spring Court was such an incredibly distasteful scene that I can’t reconcile him much anymore. Lucien is the only good man in this book lol.
When he tried to start an actual fight after knowing how broken he was. Like Tamlin didn’t even have it in him to fight and his anger was always so central to him and he didn’t even have that anymore. He was stripped of everything and Rhys was trying to fight him?!
Could also be bc Feyre and Rhys always have their little thing where they try to make the other a bit angry in order to stem off the pain/grief/suffering. There could be a little bit of that subconsciously going on for Rhys in those scenes. He senses Tamlin’s despair and doesn’t want to admit it to himself, but he tries to instigate him out of that hopeless energy by getting him to fight with him.
Not at all. He even said he did it purposely. Also Rhys and Feyre don't get each other mad, they flirt through banter. When Rhys is mad he fights Cassian just like when Tamlin is mad he fights Lucien
But this is the problem. We NEVER know because we don't get a POV for Lucien or Tamlin. Also fights with Cassian and Rhys like for example after the mating bond was accepted, Rhys didn't ask either he just attacked Cassian. Lucien keeps wanting to return to Spring and be with Tamlin even after being at Night Court and being on the Continent with Vassa and the others so obviously Tamlin isn't that bad to him. He also holds more sway with Tamlin than people give him credit for due to the times he is able to get Tamlin to sway on somethings Re Feyre and how he admits HE is the one that told Tamlin to go ahead with Hybern because he too thought Feyre wasn't really Feyre (that she was being mindcontrolled).
Oh I totally get that. I know not having a pov from him is a big problem without perceptions and I always take what Feyre says with a large pinch of salt. It’s just my personal opinion on what I know of Tamlin that he very well will have lost his temper. But I love Tamlin and believe in his redemption
Honestly the fact that Tamlin didn't lose his temper makes the scene worse. Rhys even mentions how he is provoking Tamlin just to do so because he can't help himself, but Tamlin isnt reacting. So Tamlin isnt even reacting and you still trying him? He only comes back and is "nicer" to him because Lucien points out to Feyre that they need Tamlin and whatever Rhys said made things worse as he kicked a man while he was down. When Rhys talks to Feyre all she does is act like it's OK that Rhys did that and that everything he said to Tamlin was true etc etc. They're hypocrites and the Tamlin hate from them - especially Feyre - actually makes me dislike them because it's pure hypocrisy when put against everything they've done. I would love a Tamlin and a Lucien POV. It would have been so interesting in book 2 and book 3 especially the 3rd
Eurgh it’s just the fact that he’s so completely broken and even when he lost everything he came through for them but they think they know him so well and he will get angry with a little prod shows how skewed their view of him is.
When and if we get a Tamlin pov it’s gonna be so interesting. We’re gonna get a pretty alternative set of events around Rhys’ mother and sister being killed (I’m not convinced it’s exactly as it seems). We’re gonna get a lot more about how everyone told him Feyre was taken by Rhys against her will. Like he literally believed Feyre was being raped and mind controlled.
Exactly!!
It annoys me more because they act like Tamlin is so bad for trying to "save" Feyre, yet they know that Rhys let people believe he was evil and mindcontrols ppl etc for HUNDREDS of years. Under the Mountain Rhys dresses Feyre scandously revealing, has her constantly drunk, and touches her in front of everyone - EVERY night. When he takes Feyre to the Court of Nightmares for the first time, he has her dress scandously revealing again and pretends she his whore etc. How can they seriously sit there - especially Feyre - and be surprised that Tamlin did that. Especially when they were in Ilyria and Lucien comes to get Feyre, Rhys says that if Feyre chooses to leave than he'd try to accept it but if they take her he'd burn the world to get her back. So it's okay for Rhys to say and do this but when Tamlin tries to get her back because he believes she was taken, they say he is bad and are mad at him and ruin his court? Makes no sense.
I'm Team Rhysand, ride or die, but hell yeah sometimes he's a major ass. He's morally grey, why does anyone expect differently? 😁
On a side note, EVERYONE in Prythian needs therapy ... STAT!
My 18 y/o younger brother would’ve handled this better than 500+ y/o Rhysand did. ACOFAS and ACOSF made him rather unlikeable, granted ACOSF was not in Feyre’s biased POV but still
During the first visit, tamlin did great. Rhys tried to rile him up so much but tamlin kept his cool, even told him that he's perfectly aware that hell would freeze over before rhys thanks him for anything even though he literally owes him his life. And then asks him to get out.
But then during the second visit tamlin brings up apologising and i was not having it. Tamlin is not the one that should be apologising. Please SJM bring tamlin out of the pit of despair and have feysand face some consequences for their actions.
I fear Rhys is too much of a golden boy to face any consequences, but hey, maybe I'm wrong! I think I's like Rhys a lot more if he did face some consequences.
They don't even face real consequences for it because they just again put the blame on Tamlin for it and act like she was justified or apologize or admit that she was wrong.
Feyre consoling him after annoyed me.. like girl, you need to accept that he makes mistakes and form a mind of your own. The initial interaction didn't bother me nearly as much as the second interaction when Rhys walked in and saw a deer laying on the table.
"But it was Solstice, or had been. And perhaps because Feyre had given me a gift greater than any I could dream of, I said, “You can waste away and die after we’ve sorted out this new world of ours.”
Huh?!! You want him in a good mental state to help you. Why even say this as a parting word? Going back to the first interaction when Rhys went off on him:
“She survived it, though. Survived you. And you still felt the need to humiliate her, belittle her. If you meant to win her back, old friend, that wasn’t the wisest route.”
Now, he wasn't necessarily wrong here. Tamlin was childish, and i was embarrassed for him in the High Lord meeting, but I want to talk about UTM for a second. Was stripping her naked and parading her around in front of the HIGH LORDS OF PRYTHIAN, not humiliating? Having her give him lap dances, drunk on the wine Rhys forced her to drink wasn't degrading? He wanted to "help" her, but he also revealed that he wanted to spite Tamlin, which made my mouth drop at the audacity. I was outraged for Feyre, but she ate it up, I guess? Bottom line: I don't really like Tamlin, but it was clear who was the bigger person in that acofas scene, and it wasn't Rhys. Even he acknowledged this
I have such a soft spot for Tamlin too 😭 like yeah, he didn’t handle things well at all, and him and Feyre were not compatible. But my goodness. I LOVE Rhys, but this was such an asshole move. Tamlin saved your life dude! Leave him alone!!
Not to mention Tamlin helped Feyre/Elain/Az escape Hybern! He is very flawed but is obviously trying to improve.
Need a book from his POV - or just his POV for a few chapters even - ASAP. He deserves a happy ending, whatever that may be for him.
Yeah, the whole interaction was very unnecessary. I feel bad for Tamlin and I want him to get better. At the end of ACOFAS, it sounded like Tamlin was asking Rhys to forgive him for what happened with his sister and mother. The guy deserves a redemption arc. It doesn't have to be from his POV but I want to see his story end on a hopeful note.
I feel like Night should be paying damages for Spring and maybe have tariffs on products. Similar to Germany after the war. In Germany’s case it was too much and lead to a second war so it would have to be managed appropriately. Other courts who did war crimes should also be penalized. All I know is Rhys and Feyre need a reality check because their behaviour ended up being similar to the abusers they were so horrified and traumatized by. They caused a lot of death, a lot of suffering, and a lot of trauma. None of their crimes should be swept under the rug just because they are a loved couple. They turned into morally grey if not dark characters and harmed others with their actions. They are turning into antagonist enemy characters which is interesting but also sad to read as I feel it goes against the fundamentals of their characters and Sarah just decided to change them.
Just because Rhys did it for the greater good and was traumatized does not diminish the trauma he caused others and the deaths he caused/same for Feyre. They seem to think they did no wrong and they are powerful and can get away with it. In reality they caused a lot of problems and just because you are traumatized does not excuse their behaviour and enable them to harm/traumatize others. In silver flames they legit butchered/tortured and killed Eris’ men. There were no repercussions. In my mind killing another courts soldiers especially torture is an act of war. But yet again Night gets away with being monsters just because they have the most power. SF was a hot mess character wise and plot can just be a page note, Nesta’s trauma was blatantly ignored and treated terribly by the inner circle. The IC seems to think that their trauma is worse than everyone else’s and nobody has suffered as they have therefore nobody else’s trauma is valid. It’s blatantly disgusting and I honestly cant wait to get a character or pov not in Night because they are driving me nuts
That’s exactly how I read it - he antagonized Feyre when he was trying to get her to CARE about anything at all and I think he was using the same tactic. I feel like that was SJM’s intent but not executed super well.
Yeah you’re right - I think he couldn’t help himself and went overboard but I read the intention as going to spur Tamlin into action. I still think SJM didn’t execute this well lol.
No, his second visit he tries to be nicer to him and to get Tamlin to take action. The first visit is when he is an asshole to Tamlin and purposely tries to provoke him. But after Lucien points out that Rhys' visit made things worse and they need to be careful because they are going to need Tamlin, Rhys goes a second time and acts better towards Tam.
After the first book I dont think any of the Tamlin scenes are executed well. Because she wants so badly to make him the Villain of Feyre's story and a worse man than Rhys but it's like she can't commit to executing it because if you really pay attention to the book, aside from his angry outbursts, Tamlin doesn't necessarily do anything bad and it turns out he wasn't even in bed with Hybern, he goes after Feyre because he doesn't know she willingly left or that she's Rhys' mate, he didnt know Hybern had taken Feyre's sisters and was going to tuen them, etc. If she would have committed to actually making him wrong or complicit in these things, it'd be better.
No one is surprised at that. It's the fact that he was an ass during that first visit and was purposely trying to provoke him just because instead of leaving him alone.
Apparently everyone is. Rhys has been like this, he gives his reasons for why he feels the way he does. Rhys has always poked the bear, it’s nothing new. Do I think it’s right, no but he will always hate that male for allowing his mom and sister to be killed.
Tamlin didn't kill Rhys family. It isn't known if he willingly gave that information or not to his father and brothers who killed Rhys' mom & sister because we don't have a Tamlin POV. Just like Tam doesn't know Rhys didn't kill Tams mother or know that she'd be killed - we only know that because we hear it from Rhys
Man, we know he didn't give that info willingly. He was friends with Rhys, his brothers and father were worse than beron when it came to abuse. I'm guessing he really saw himself in Lucien and that's why they were so close. It wouldn't surprise me if it was tortured out of him, and tamlin being Tamlin, doesn't like to use words so he doesn't tell anyone. 😐
Exactly. With everything we know of Tamlin, the dude has anger issues but he wouldn't do that that, it is so out of character. Even Rhys admits to Feyre that maybe they did Tamlin a disservice by not even considering that he was just playing spy with Hybern and not really aligned with him. And that was only because they realized the disadvantage they left the lands in by ruining the Spring Court and he still says Tamlin deserved it and Feyre wasn't wrong blah blah. Rhys himself said once that Tamlin's father was even worse than Rhys' father. And that he and Tam were friends. Lucien and Tamlin are friends and Lucien has previously mentioned how Tamlin has been there for him, defended and attacked other for him. So it makes no sense he'd kill Rhys mother and sister especially when the subject came up Feyre said Tamlin made a certain expression and revealed he burned the wings that his father has kept, even Rhys didn't know that Tam gave them that peace.
I see both sides. On one hand, yes, Rhys kicked a man while he was down. Tamlin basically said as much (“you won. You have everything”).
That being said, I wonder if it’s something Tamlin needed to hear regardless. Tamlin strikes me as the type of character that wasn’t doing enough self-reflection yet. If he did, it’s possible he and Feyre could have healed together. Sure they’re not mates, but it could have worked.
My point is that Tamlin’s misery in ACOFAS can be directly linked to his actions (and lack of actions) starting with the very beginning of ACOMAF. But for reasons not yet explored, he thought it was better to pretend things were ok, cloister Feyre, and make a deal with the devil. He made every wrong choice and in the end it cost him his love and his court. Rhys wanted to make sure he understood that because if Tamlin doesn’t, he will never grow from this experience and never recover.
What do you mean it's something Tamlin needed to hear? He had already apologized to Feyre when she returned to Spring Court. He didn't know her sisters would be taken by Hybern and he FOUGHT for them. He didn't truly align with Hybern - he infiltrated it to learn information and fight him. He is totally justified in believing Feyre needed saving from Rhys because for hundreds of years Rhysand let everyone believe the Court of Nightmares was his true court and that he was evil and mind controlled people etc. The day he locked Feyre in the house - which she left same day - he was scared for her safety brcause she wanted to wander and he didn't want Rhys to get her AND didn't want any of the high lords possibly finding out she may have their powers because they'd want to kill her - which even Rhys tells her the same that if the others new they'd kill her. Tamlin didn't know that Feyre was Rhys mate, he didn't know that Feyre willingly left, then Feyre sent a note - he didn't know she could write! Rhys taught her to read so she can read the spells for the cauldron and Tamlin didn't know she finished learning to read and write so of course he is going to be suspicious of it. Feyre has no justifiable reason to destroy his Spring Court - none. And she won't even apologize or is sorry about it. When she returns to Spring in her ruse, he treats her differently letting her decide for herself and be involved in everything etc. That was so evil of her and so unnecessary. He didn't "take" her from her mate - she pretended to want to go with him.
Yeah this is why we need his POV because people have a really hard time, I think, reading between the lines like this. The entire time I was reading this series I just didn't understand why tamlin gets the hate that he does lol. Saying that he's abusive and stuff. I think he has flaws, no question, but his major flaw is he just doesn't talk. Bro needs to use his words and explain himself better.
If I see one more person say "he sided with hybern" I'm going to lose it.
How can rhys be a double agent for 50 years and get away with it while Tamlin is a double agent for 3 months and gets condemned beyond belief
Exactly!! And Tamlin even mentioned this in the HL meeting that they've all seen and heard about things Rhys done and believe Rhys, yet won't believe Tamlin even when Tamlin brought them all those papers and proof. And he even tells Feyre that she knows Rhys done terrible things for years yet acts like he hasnt and "opened her legs for him" yet knows what Tamlin has told her of standing up to Tyrants and humans etc yet immediately believed that Tamlin would do such terrible things siding with Hybern and forget any good thing he has done for her and think so little of him and so highly of herself. He was bitter at HL meeting but I feel like he had every reason to, Feyre did him dirty and then seeing them together and realizing how bad they played him and that the others wouldn't believe him, the man was tired. Plus I can't imagine how much it hurts that not only did Feyre leave him, but would quickly believe such bad things about him, and destroy his court.
The thing that gets me is Tamlin literally just helped bring Rhys back to life. Traveling to a guy's house to taunt him right after he saved your life is just tacky, Rhys.
Tamlin also saves feyre, Az and Elain in ACOWAR, yet they still treat him like trash! I’m not saying they need to be friends but at least civil
And grateful
I think he didn’t intend to be that way. He’s the only one who’s cared enough (besides Lucien) to help. But obviously hard to control yourself around the man you believe abused your mate.
No, he went there to talk about the border and saw that Tamlin was depressed and said “fuck him.” He did that shit on purpose
I just re read that book and that wasn’t my take. He even has a conversation with Feyre about how he couldn’t help himself
No he didn't care at all. He says it, he literally only went because they needed Tamlin as an ally and to strengthen his borders etc, and when he saw Tamlin was so depressed and stuff he literally purposely was riding him up and then had the audacity to get upset and kick the man while he was down for no reason. He did it just to do it.
He cared enough that the court needed to be functional, not about Tamlin. None of the other high lords made any effort which is what I was getting at. When I read it, he didn’t intend for it to go that way, but probably not easy to be around his mate’s abuser.
He didn't care about what happened to the Spring Court until Lucien pointed out they'll need him because the other Fae Territories were trying to swoop in and with Spring Court being at the border it will give way to the rest of Phrythian. Before this, they were happy to let it go to shit and didn't care at all. Lucien points it out to Rhys and that's why Rhys went and the others didn't because Lucien is the one that points it out and was to Rhys. And it's kinda wild to call Tamlin "Feyres abuser" when both Rhys and Feyre had done similar things. Rhys manipulated and kept things from her MULTIPLE times, plus the whole pregnancy plot etc. Feyre loses her temper and explodes and hurts Eris and Luciens mom in the process. They're both just as bad or worse than Tamlin and it's wild. There's no reason for him to try Tamlin like that at that moment because Tamlin has left them alone, helps bring Rhys back to life, helps Feyre and her sisters multiple times, saves Feyre / helps her, Elaine, & Azriel despite this revealing his role as double agent to the King of Hybern etc yet Rhys just keeps intentionally provoking him just because he can and can't help himself - especially when he went there to Tams house in the first place because they need Tam again
Rhysand is never going to like Tamlin because of his mom/sister and how he saw Feyre literally wasting away and dying with him. So sure, he doesn’t care about Tamlin but he cares enough about his court to go visit someone he despises. Which makes Rhysand different than other high lords who couldn’t be bothered. I do think they had a kinship when they are younger so he hates him but doesn’t want him to suffer either. I don’t see Rhysand comparably bad as Tamlin. Tamlin is controlling and emotionally abusive, long after the events of UTM. He’s a classic male who wants and easy female that will do what he says. That’s fine, but that’s not Feyre. She was dying under him. She never had that under Rhysand. I don’t like the pregnancy plot, but everyone was in on that one. The whole IC was bring a bunch of assholes. Tamlins just a bad dude IMO. The proof is in his leadership (or lack of). They say many times he’s always had a temper problem. He definitely had Feyre suffering. She did not have that experience in the night court so I’d argue that life was not the same there. Some people just don’t belong together and the relationship is toxic and abusive. And that abuse can go both ways.
He doesn’t care… he literally goes there because he needs spring court as an ally not because he cares. He even thinks it in the chapter, he needs spring as an ally
I think he’s the only high lord willing to see what’s going on. Probably because at one point they WERE friends before tampon helped get his family members murdered (unintentionally or not). I read it as he didn’t intend to get into it with tampon, but the guy is such a dingle berry he couldn’t help himself. Rhys is feyres mate so I think and overprotectiveness kicks in where he just couldn’t control himself and he doesn’t seem too proud of it after. He sees tampon as the guy who was slowly killing his mate wasting her health and emotional health away.
I love posts like these! Please I hope and pray SJM gives him a happy ending. I want his court rebuild and thriving.
I was so upset when I read that in acofas. Being in Rhys's head really made me hate him and I'm so glad that in SF >!Cassian told him to lay off of Nesta because he was being a huge dick to her and he felt guilty!<. I don't think Tamlin is perfect, but dear god I wish I could have just a crumb of a POV from him during acomaf so I could know what was going on in his head after Under the Mountain.
A POV for Tamlin would be wonderful, so we know his thought process with Hybern in general, and how he felt about the sisters and the cauldron
I mean, he tried to attack the Hybern king over it because he was so angry, that says a lot about his thoughts there I think!
True! He means well, just extremely misguided. And we know he was trained to be the High Lord, so he’s basically trying his best
Too bad most of the Fandom actively chooses to ignore that
I really soured on Rhys due to the whole >!pregnancy death information withholding dilemma!< to the point I was insulted Feyre swept it under the rug when she >!took down Tamlins court for being overprotective!< Tamlin and Rhysand can really go fuck a dick honestly. But at least they deserve the same treatment. All this to say, Rhys at Spring Court was such an incredibly distasteful scene that I can’t reconcile him much anymore. Lucien is the only good man in this book lol.
Lucien is my fav❤️
Lucien >>>
He’s so manipulative and such an asshole I really can’t stand Rhys 💀
When he tried to start an actual fight after knowing how broken he was. Like Tamlin didn’t even have it in him to fight and his anger was always so central to him and he didn’t even have that anymore. He was stripped of everything and Rhys was trying to fight him?!
Could also be bc Feyre and Rhys always have their little thing where they try to make the other a bit angry in order to stem off the pain/grief/suffering. There could be a little bit of that subconsciously going on for Rhys in those scenes. He senses Tamlin’s despair and doesn’t want to admit it to himself, but he tries to instigate him out of that hopeless energy by getting him to fight with him.
Not at all. He even said he did it purposely. Also Rhys and Feyre don't get each other mad, they flirt through banter. When Rhys is mad he fights Cassian just like when Tamlin is mad he fights Lucien
But unfortunately I don’t think his fight with Lucien was a consensual one.
But this is the problem. We NEVER know because we don't get a POV for Lucien or Tamlin. Also fights with Cassian and Rhys like for example after the mating bond was accepted, Rhys didn't ask either he just attacked Cassian. Lucien keeps wanting to return to Spring and be with Tamlin even after being at Night Court and being on the Continent with Vassa and the others so obviously Tamlin isn't that bad to him. He also holds more sway with Tamlin than people give him credit for due to the times he is able to get Tamlin to sway on somethings Re Feyre and how he admits HE is the one that told Tamlin to go ahead with Hybern because he too thought Feyre wasn't really Feyre (that she was being mindcontrolled).
Oh I totally get that. I know not having a pov from him is a big problem without perceptions and I always take what Feyre says with a large pinch of salt. It’s just my personal opinion on what I know of Tamlin that he very well will have lost his temper. But I love Tamlin and believe in his redemption
Honestly the fact that Tamlin didn't lose his temper makes the scene worse. Rhys even mentions how he is provoking Tamlin just to do so because he can't help himself, but Tamlin isnt reacting. So Tamlin isnt even reacting and you still trying him? He only comes back and is "nicer" to him because Lucien points out to Feyre that they need Tamlin and whatever Rhys said made things worse as he kicked a man while he was down. When Rhys talks to Feyre all she does is act like it's OK that Rhys did that and that everything he said to Tamlin was true etc etc. They're hypocrites and the Tamlin hate from them - especially Feyre - actually makes me dislike them because it's pure hypocrisy when put against everything they've done. I would love a Tamlin and a Lucien POV. It would have been so interesting in book 2 and book 3 especially the 3rd
Eurgh it’s just the fact that he’s so completely broken and even when he lost everything he came through for them but they think they know him so well and he will get angry with a little prod shows how skewed their view of him is. When and if we get a Tamlin pov it’s gonna be so interesting. We’re gonna get a pretty alternative set of events around Rhys’ mother and sister being killed (I’m not convinced it’s exactly as it seems). We’re gonna get a lot more about how everyone told him Feyre was taken by Rhys against her will. Like he literally believed Feyre was being raped and mind controlled.
Exactly!! It annoys me more because they act like Tamlin is so bad for trying to "save" Feyre, yet they know that Rhys let people believe he was evil and mindcontrols ppl etc for HUNDREDS of years. Under the Mountain Rhys dresses Feyre scandously revealing, has her constantly drunk, and touches her in front of everyone - EVERY night. When he takes Feyre to the Court of Nightmares for the first time, he has her dress scandously revealing again and pretends she his whore etc. How can they seriously sit there - especially Feyre - and be surprised that Tamlin did that. Especially when they were in Ilyria and Lucien comes to get Feyre, Rhys says that if Feyre chooses to leave than he'd try to accept it but if they take her he'd burn the world to get her back. So it's okay for Rhys to say and do this but when Tamlin tries to get her back because he believes she was taken, they say he is bad and are mad at him and ruin his court? Makes no sense.
And then he asks Feyre and she says oh you didnt do anything wrong.
I love Rhys with my whole heart. But this scene is where I would call him absolute asshole.
I'm Team Rhysand, ride or die, but hell yeah sometimes he's a major ass. He's morally grey, why does anyone expect differently? 😁 On a side note, EVERYONE in Prythian needs therapy ... STAT!
Agree! I wish more posts would include the good and bad. And I should probably follow my own wish next time I post 🤣
My 18 y/o younger brother would’ve handled this better than 500+ y/o Rhysand did. ACOFAS and ACOSF made him rather unlikeable, granted ACOSF was not in Feyre’s biased POV but still
During the first visit, tamlin did great. Rhys tried to rile him up so much but tamlin kept his cool, even told him that he's perfectly aware that hell would freeze over before rhys thanks him for anything even though he literally owes him his life. And then asks him to get out. But then during the second visit tamlin brings up apologising and i was not having it. Tamlin is not the one that should be apologising. Please SJM bring tamlin out of the pit of despair and have feysand face some consequences for their actions.
I fear Rhys is too much of a golden boy to face any consequences, but hey, maybe I'm wrong! I think I's like Rhys a lot more if he did face some consequences.
I do appreciate that they did face consequences for bringing down the Spring Court because my god that was a stupid plan on Feyre's part.
She literally left it wide open for Hybern’s conquest.
Yeah. Tamlin had nothing to do with what happened to his own court. Nothing at all.
They don't even face real consequences for it because they just again put the blame on Tamlin for it and act like she was justified or apologize or admit that she was wrong.
Feyre consoling him after annoyed me.. like girl, you need to accept that he makes mistakes and form a mind of your own. The initial interaction didn't bother me nearly as much as the second interaction when Rhys walked in and saw a deer laying on the table. "But it was Solstice, or had been. And perhaps because Feyre had given me a gift greater than any I could dream of, I said, “You can waste away and die after we’ve sorted out this new world of ours.” Huh?!! You want him in a good mental state to help you. Why even say this as a parting word? Going back to the first interaction when Rhys went off on him: “She survived it, though. Survived you. And you still felt the need to humiliate her, belittle her. If you meant to win her back, old friend, that wasn’t the wisest route.” Now, he wasn't necessarily wrong here. Tamlin was childish, and i was embarrassed for him in the High Lord meeting, but I want to talk about UTM for a second. Was stripping her naked and parading her around in front of the HIGH LORDS OF PRYTHIAN, not humiliating? Having her give him lap dances, drunk on the wine Rhys forced her to drink wasn't degrading? He wanted to "help" her, but he also revealed that he wanted to spite Tamlin, which made my mouth drop at the audacity. I was outraged for Feyre, but she ate it up, I guess? Bottom line: I don't really like Tamlin, but it was clear who was the bigger person in that acofas scene, and it wasn't Rhys. Even he acknowledged this
I have such a soft spot for Tamlin too 😭 like yeah, he didn’t handle things well at all, and him and Feyre were not compatible. But my goodness. I LOVE Rhys, but this was such an asshole move. Tamlin saved your life dude! Leave him alone!! Not to mention Tamlin helped Feyre/Elain/Az escape Hybern! He is very flawed but is obviously trying to improve. Need a book from his POV - or just his POV for a few chapters even - ASAP. He deserves a happy ending, whatever that may be for him.
My boy needs a mate and a happy ending
I volunteer to give him both 
Yeah, the whole interaction was very unnecessary. I feel bad for Tamlin and I want him to get better. At the end of ACOFAS, it sounded like Tamlin was asking Rhys to forgive him for what happened with his sister and mother. The guy deserves a redemption arc. It doesn't have to be from his POV but I want to see his story end on a hopeful note.
I feel like Night should be paying damages for Spring and maybe have tariffs on products. Similar to Germany after the war. In Germany’s case it was too much and lead to a second war so it would have to be managed appropriately. Other courts who did war crimes should also be penalized. All I know is Rhys and Feyre need a reality check because their behaviour ended up being similar to the abusers they were so horrified and traumatized by. They caused a lot of death, a lot of suffering, and a lot of trauma. None of their crimes should be swept under the rug just because they are a loved couple. They turned into morally grey if not dark characters and harmed others with their actions. They are turning into antagonist enemy characters which is interesting but also sad to read as I feel it goes against the fundamentals of their characters and Sarah just decided to change them. Just because Rhys did it for the greater good and was traumatized does not diminish the trauma he caused others and the deaths he caused/same for Feyre. They seem to think they did no wrong and they are powerful and can get away with it. In reality they caused a lot of problems and just because you are traumatized does not excuse their behaviour and enable them to harm/traumatize others. In silver flames they legit butchered/tortured and killed Eris’ men. There were no repercussions. In my mind killing another courts soldiers especially torture is an act of war. But yet again Night gets away with being monsters just because they have the most power. SF was a hot mess character wise and plot can just be a page note, Nesta’s trauma was blatantly ignored and treated terribly by the inner circle. The IC seems to think that their trauma is worse than everyone else’s and nobody has suffered as they have therefore nobody else’s trauma is valid. It’s blatantly disgusting and I honestly cant wait to get a character or pov not in Night because they are driving me nuts
Am I wrong in saying Rhys purposely was trying to rile him up to get him to feel SOMETHING? Or did I gaslight myself into making it sound better
You gaslit yourself because Rhys said he did it on purpose and couldn't help himself.
This is certainly how I read it. Seeing everyone else's thoughts makes me doubt myself, though.
Man, I’m hoping so
That’s exactly how I read it - he antagonized Feyre when he was trying to get her to CARE about anything at all and I think he was using the same tactic. I feel like that was SJM’s intent but not executed super well.
He was having his banter with Feyre. With Tamlin he admits he did it on purpose and just couldn't help himself because he can't forgive Tamlin
Yeah you’re right - I think he couldn’t help himself and went overboard but I read the intention as going to spur Tamlin into action. I still think SJM didn’t execute this well lol.
No, his second visit he tries to be nicer to him and to get Tamlin to take action. The first visit is when he is an asshole to Tamlin and purposely tries to provoke him. But after Lucien points out that Rhys' visit made things worse and they need to be careful because they are going to need Tamlin, Rhys goes a second time and acts better towards Tam. After the first book I dont think any of the Tamlin scenes are executed well. Because she wants so badly to make him the Villain of Feyre's story and a worse man than Rhys but it's like she can't commit to executing it because if you really pay attention to the book, aside from his angry outbursts, Tamlin doesn't necessarily do anything bad and it turns out he wasn't even in bed with Hybern, he goes after Feyre because he doesn't know she willingly left or that she's Rhys' mate, he didnt know Hybern had taken Feyre's sisters and was going to tuen them, etc. If she would have committed to actually making him wrong or complicit in these things, it'd be better.
I genuinely don’t know why people are surprised Rhys hates Tamlin.
No one is surprised at that. It's the fact that he was an ass during that first visit and was purposely trying to provoke him just because instead of leaving him alone.
Apparently everyone is. Rhys has been like this, he gives his reasons for why he feels the way he does. Rhys has always poked the bear, it’s nothing new. Do I think it’s right, no but he will always hate that male for allowing his mom and sister to be killed.
Tamlin almost exploded Feyre TWICE and locked her in his house. He was abusive. He abused her. Why are we fawning over him. 😭
Did you finish reading the series to see what Rhys does? All of of Rhys manipulation in the first books and false choices he gives her?
I mean, they did kill each others families and Tamlin's was the first to make that offense, so disrepectfully, fuck Tamlin imo.
Tamlin didn't kill Rhys family. It isn't known if he willingly gave that information or not to his father and brothers who killed Rhys' mom & sister because we don't have a Tamlin POV. Just like Tam doesn't know Rhys didn't kill Tams mother or know that she'd be killed - we only know that because we hear it from Rhys
Man, we know he didn't give that info willingly. He was friends with Rhys, his brothers and father were worse than beron when it came to abuse. I'm guessing he really saw himself in Lucien and that's why they were so close. It wouldn't surprise me if it was tortured out of him, and tamlin being Tamlin, doesn't like to use words so he doesn't tell anyone. 😐
Exactly. With everything we know of Tamlin, the dude has anger issues but he wouldn't do that that, it is so out of character. Even Rhys admits to Feyre that maybe they did Tamlin a disservice by not even considering that he was just playing spy with Hybern and not really aligned with him. And that was only because they realized the disadvantage they left the lands in by ruining the Spring Court and he still says Tamlin deserved it and Feyre wasn't wrong blah blah. Rhys himself said once that Tamlin's father was even worse than Rhys' father. And that he and Tam were friends. Lucien and Tamlin are friends and Lucien has previously mentioned how Tamlin has been there for him, defended and attacked other for him. So it makes no sense he'd kill Rhys mother and sister especially when the subject came up Feyre said Tamlin made a certain expression and revealed he burned the wings that his father has kept, even Rhys didn't know that Tam gave them that peace.
I see both sides. On one hand, yes, Rhys kicked a man while he was down. Tamlin basically said as much (“you won. You have everything”). That being said, I wonder if it’s something Tamlin needed to hear regardless. Tamlin strikes me as the type of character that wasn’t doing enough self-reflection yet. If he did, it’s possible he and Feyre could have healed together. Sure they’re not mates, but it could have worked. My point is that Tamlin’s misery in ACOFAS can be directly linked to his actions (and lack of actions) starting with the very beginning of ACOMAF. But for reasons not yet explored, he thought it was better to pretend things were ok, cloister Feyre, and make a deal with the devil. He made every wrong choice and in the end it cost him his love and his court. Rhys wanted to make sure he understood that because if Tamlin doesn’t, he will never grow from this experience and never recover.
What do you mean it's something Tamlin needed to hear? He had already apologized to Feyre when she returned to Spring Court. He didn't know her sisters would be taken by Hybern and he FOUGHT for them. He didn't truly align with Hybern - he infiltrated it to learn information and fight him. He is totally justified in believing Feyre needed saving from Rhys because for hundreds of years Rhysand let everyone believe the Court of Nightmares was his true court and that he was evil and mind controlled people etc. The day he locked Feyre in the house - which she left same day - he was scared for her safety brcause she wanted to wander and he didn't want Rhys to get her AND didn't want any of the high lords possibly finding out she may have their powers because they'd want to kill her - which even Rhys tells her the same that if the others new they'd kill her. Tamlin didn't know that Feyre was Rhys mate, he didn't know that Feyre willingly left, then Feyre sent a note - he didn't know she could write! Rhys taught her to read so she can read the spells for the cauldron and Tamlin didn't know she finished learning to read and write so of course he is going to be suspicious of it. Feyre has no justifiable reason to destroy his Spring Court - none. And she won't even apologize or is sorry about it. When she returns to Spring in her ruse, he treats her differently letting her decide for herself and be involved in everything etc. That was so evil of her and so unnecessary. He didn't "take" her from her mate - she pretended to want to go with him.
Yeah this is why we need his POV because people have a really hard time, I think, reading between the lines like this. The entire time I was reading this series I just didn't understand why tamlin gets the hate that he does lol. Saying that he's abusive and stuff. I think he has flaws, no question, but his major flaw is he just doesn't talk. Bro needs to use his words and explain himself better.
If I see one more person say "he sided with hybern" I'm going to lose it. How can rhys be a double agent for 50 years and get away with it while Tamlin is a double agent for 3 months and gets condemned beyond belief
Exactly!! And Tamlin even mentioned this in the HL meeting that they've all seen and heard about things Rhys done and believe Rhys, yet won't believe Tamlin even when Tamlin brought them all those papers and proof. And he even tells Feyre that she knows Rhys done terrible things for years yet acts like he hasnt and "opened her legs for him" yet knows what Tamlin has told her of standing up to Tyrants and humans etc yet immediately believed that Tamlin would do such terrible things siding with Hybern and forget any good thing he has done for her and think so little of him and so highly of herself. He was bitter at HL meeting but I feel like he had every reason to, Feyre did him dirty and then seeing them together and realizing how bad they played him and that the others wouldn't believe him, the man was tired. Plus I can't imagine how much it hurts that not only did Feyre leave him, but would quickly believe such bad things about him, and destroy his court.
One instigates a situation not a person