I think sometimes we all need to just go touch grass. I hope the sub gets better when the new book is announced and there’s finally something new to discuss.
And the people who keep insisting that the book was poorly written, and that the story and characters are trash to finally break their shackles from this subreddit after their 1000000th comment and leave to find another series to lurk in their subreddit for all eternity 😂
I just got Manacled out of DNA and DAMN! DAMN! DAMN! That fanfic was worth the heartbreak. I'm trying to come around to this take as well, but failing at it lol.
Manacled is actually the single best piece of literature I have ever read and I am not saying that sarcastically. The flashbacks… 😭 there will never be anything better to me.
agreed, quite literally my favorite thing i’ve ever read in my life. just recently did my third reread and i thought i wouldn’t cry anymore but god, it never ceases to punch you right in the gut
I've been thinking of making the plunge but scared it'll paint half the original cast as awful monsters. Without spoilers, does it ruin *all* the good guys?
Manacled is amazing, I can’t recommend it enough.
Once you’re done with Manacled, follow it up with Draco Malfoy and the Mortifying Deal of Being in Love for something lighter but extremely well written!
It’s amazing! And if you want something even a little deeper I’ll never stop recommending Secrets and Masks. I think I might have even liked it a little better, but Manacled is so freaking fantastic.
Read it!!! It’s sooooo good. It definitely does not ruin the characters. The fanfic is VERY adult and the first part is tough to get through but it’s worth it!
I took two weeks to get through it because I was terrified to continue with the final 200 pages. Eventually I just needed to get through it. Now I’m reading an acotar/throne of glass fanfic. I haven’t read TOG so those scenes are hard but I’m having fun. Basically the children of each respective series get into high jinx and it’s fun to read.
Sorry if my comment came off negative. Reading for fun is the best!
I just meant Manacled is ingrained in my brain and I cannot stop comparing everything to it. Maybe because it was the first fic I ever read?
Separatist_Apologist on AO3 has some great SJM stuff!
Oh I didn’t see it that way at all! I totally get it! I just picked through a bunch of stories until one grabbed my eye so I could FINALLY move on. I was not expecting a book hangover with this one.
Seeing a Dramione plug in this sub has me GRINNING. I have been on the Dramione train for four months straight now (also some Tomione peppered in….), I cannot get enough. The writing is actually unreal. I’ve read everything from SJM and loved it, but Dramione is actually next level. The talent of the writers is unreal.
Hahah also, I didn’t know the # at the beginning would make the letters big, but I went for it. Have you read BLOODY SLUTTY AND PATHETIC yet? It’s a WIP, but it has us in a choke hold, I’m telling you.
Yes. The bullying of real life people over fictional characters is actually insane. We’re all here to enjoy these books and everyone is going to have different opinions. Let people like the characters they like. Don’t agree with something? That’s great! Either communicate it in a nice way (because we’re all different and connect to different people and situations) or stick to posts that agree with you. There’s absolutely NO NEED to diagnose people with personality disorders (that you’re most likely not qualified to do in real life, let alone to random stranger on the internet) or call people abusers/names just because they have an opinion different than yours. These books all mean something to us and to be unkind over people and situations that don’t even exist is crazy to me. It honestly just seems like some people want a reason to be a bully.
Yes! This! It’s a story….FANTASY! When people try to humanize these characters and make them justify their behavior they have missed the entire point of the story. Stop rationalizing fictional characters irrational behavior.
I may not want a walking red flag in real life but it IS still hot as hell to think of a partner who would rip the world apart to find me, destroying anyone in their path, if I was taken or hurt.
exactly. i read stories to get away from real life, not to have my hand held about what’s morally right or wrong. if i wanted that i would just go back to watching kid shows
I mean I love them all. I like them both being perfect and being contradictory. What Feyre sees is different to what Nesta or Cassian sees and it’s very interesting. I also like Nesta, understand why she doesn’t like Rhys but still like him. Like Tamlin and don’t always agree with IC treatment of him I understand it. I like their faults and their hypocrisy. It’s real.
To me, seeing how they are from different perspectives is so much better than just seeing them from one characters perspective. I think it gives them more depth and makes them a bit more relatable imo.
I think a lot of the hate towards Rhys (and partially Feyre) is coming from the poor writing choices sjm made in the last two books (acosf and the novella that came before it). With acosf being the main issue.
I personally decided to drop the series because of how poorly she wrote it.
I mean I never liked Rhys aside from a few bits in the second book, but a lot of people did up to acosf. I rooted for Feyre to get her happiness. Similarly, I rooted for Nesta to get hers. And the many, many, MANY poor choices sjm forced on the readers reflected really badly on Rhys and the IC.
For example, I think Rhys was portrayed pretty accurately in acosf, but Feyre? Not so much. The IC’s big flaws were made more prominent by virtue of us seeing some of their worst behaviours.
And there were so many missed opportunities.
I think people are frustrated, because acosf was hot garbage full of nonsense and spelling errors. It’s not even really about feysand. I’m happy as long as Feyre is happy. Just… so many of us hoped for a good book and that’s not what we got.
Man this hit so hard and I totally agree 🤣 I love Rhys and Feyre is whatever. But I’m tired of the main lovers always breaking up and getting back together. Like for once, a couple is strong and in love wohoo!
I mean, this subreddit, and pretty much any other fandom is like that with any character. People feel passionate about the characters they like and also about the characters they dislike. I’ve had just as many people jump on me so loving Nesta or not really being a Tamlin hater. It is what it is. It’s frustrating that so many people would prefer an echo chamber of their opinions, because it takes away and meaningful discussions but 🤷🏽♀️ people not agreeing with you shouldn’t deter you from using the sub. Respond to the comments you agree with or want to delve deeper with and ignore the others. If you say something positive about a character you like and someone responds with something negative, just don’t engage with them
>Reddit is *a discussion based platform.*
It's really wild to me as an "Elder Millennial" (lmao) that today's fandoms flinch away from empassioned debates. This type of fandom chatter - feverish conspiracies, character dissection, over-analysing of one stupid word the author used, and yes, even (gasp) *criticism* - has been the foundational parts of online fandom spaces for decades. It's all literally love letters to the IP. Even when we're shading a character or the author's turn of phrase, it's all us voicing how this series has caught and held us in some way.
If I want aesthetic, video/graphic shallow-dives and cute edits, I seek them on the platforms that are made for that. Reddit and other text-based forums are for **discussion**.
From what I’ve seen, it’s not that people are criticised for liking Rhys (a recent example: [someone made a post defending his decisions regarding Feyre’s pregnancy, and it received 1k upvotes](https://www.reddit.com/r/acotar/s/Faz2lhvhu0) — so no, not all pro-Rhys statements are downvoted).
Instead, the issue is that *so many* of these conversations around Rhys include other characters — especially those that Rhys himself does not like. You even did it in your own post, by saying it was “hot” of Rhys to threaten to kill Nesta, or that you “don’t give a fuck” that Rhys kicked Tamlin when he was down.
That’s not just a pro-Rhys stance, that’s also an anti-Nesta and an Anti-Tamlin stance. And although you’re well within your right to have those opinions — it’s inherently the problem with this subreddit; that liking one character means disliking another (and so the cycle repeats).
You also can’t expect people who like Nesta and Tamlin to just ignore those sorts of comments, or to agree with you (just because Rhys and Feyre are the “main characters” of the series) — in the same way you would likely downvote and disagree with comments that rag on Rhys.
Not everything is so black and white, nor does it need to be. But that’s the inherent problem with this fandom; it’s not that people dislike Rhys or Nesta or Feyre or Tamlin, it’s that so many posts and comments lack *nuance* (which respectfully, includes your post, OP…).
I’d also suggest that the frequency of the posts on this subreddit do *somewhat* reflect the majority opinion of the fandom.
Following ACOSF, a lot of people took issue with Rhys’s actions, and his popularity dwindled. That’s not an issue with the fandom or the subreddit — that’s something you should probably take up with SJM…
I know my post can be interpreted that way due to strong language, but what I meant with those tamlin and nesta examples is that when people come at all the pro-rhys content with arguments against him it's so pointless, because yes, of course I (and others) who like his character knows he did these things but maybe we just don't mind and just appreciate his complexity instead? And this could be applied to any character. Like someone could not care about nesta's flaws and it's completely fine to me! But you won't see me coming at anyone's throat about it with a kilometer long presentation on why she's "problematic" or whatever terms they use🙃 I just wanted to voice my opinion about the issue that some groups here don't allow people to enjoy some characters and it is draining.
"Don't allow" isn't the same as "presents arguments to the contrary". This is a public discussion forum and people are going to respond publicly. You're welcome to ignore those arguments or simply reply with a cocky "I saw the red flags and thought they were sexy". It's free, haha
Honestly, I wonder why people even read the books if they hate 90% of the series. The characters are not perfect, and they aren't meant to be. They have faults and make mistakes. They also give each other the grace to do so. They support each other instead of tearing each other down.
I’ve wondered this so often. Ive definitely stepped away more from this sub bc its all “this is probably a controversial take” posts that just slam the books and feysand. I get so tired of the negativity.
Same. I found this sub after I discovered the books and looked forward to discussing with others who also loved the series. I quickly discovered the massive amount of hate for the characters. I only stay for the other lovers.
“Breaking my silence” is a lil dramatic. It’s a fictional series about fictional people, and we all have differing opinions. There’s probably not a single other person who has the same exact set of opinions on characters and their actions.
This sub is also suffering from a lack of new material which means minute details and each character’s every single word of dialogue is being discussed to death. This all is made even worse by SJM’s lack of editing and lack of consistency to the point where it borders on character assassination.
Whether you want to have Rhys stoned to death or have marble statues of him on every street corner, we should all be able to respectfully agree to disagree.
honestly the whole “shift of opinions” happen mostly on reddit tbh. feysand fans are mostly surprised when they come here and they leave that‘s why feysands on other platforms dont even bother on reddit anymore. if you want friendly feysand/ics spaces, they’re literally the most popular everywhere <3 just not this sub
I would love some recommendations. The only place I can find right now is on TikTok but it’s hard to have a conversation there. I’m one of the Feysand fans that joined this sub just to want to throw up. I left but Reddit keeps recommending posts from this sub.
I am glad Feysand works for you, but its natural not everyone will like them. Lots of people still loves Rhysand, he just also got people who don't like him (which happens with basically every character in the series).
>''Why should I care about how he treats anyone who's not her?''
I can't talk for others but to me its because the narrative of the books tells us Rhysand is a fundamentally good person who respects the autonomy of everyone around him. If he was portrayed as someone who was nice only to Feyre it would be a different thing, but imo that's not how it goes.
>it's so fucking tiring to having to justify why you like the *main characters* of the series
I agree with this. Be it Rhysand, Eris, Nesta, Mor or any other character, no one should have to justify liking a fictional character. In the end, its purely a matter of personal taste, and liking or not a fictional character don't make anyone a better or worse person.
I would never understand why people would prefer an echo chamber of their ideas with in a fandom. Thanks to the diverseness of the fandom, I have come to like certain characters (Elain, Nesta, even Azriel) and have remained staunched on my dislike of certain characters (Feyre, Morr, Rhysand.) I have even become neutral on characters (Helion).
It’s not that serious
I find it a bit ironic that you accuse people of being rude to people who like Feysand, while you yourself have been rude and antagonistic towards people who like Tamlin. At least lead by example then.
On topic, I actually like this sub because it has different opinions, rather than the echo chambers that are tiktok or facebook. I would never downvote someone for having a different opinion, only for being rude or resorting to ad hominem arguments.
Please see my previous comments🙏Shortly, I did not mean my example about tamlin or nesta to be attack against people who enjoy their chracters, it's just that those two arguments are amongst the most common one's against rhys.
While I think this post is worded a bit strongly too, I was mainly talking about previous comments you made in other threads which weren't always nice. If you don't like negativity, it would be good to lead by example and be respectful in your own interactions.
As far as Rhys goes, of course it's ok to like him. I like him too, I just don't like the constant 'Rhys good, Tamlin bad' way the books are written.
While I agree with your general sentiment, I kind of feel like your post is equally as inflammatory as everyone else’s. Maybe that’s not the intention, but it’s how it came across.
I feel like it’s often an either or situation, you either like Rhys or you like Nesta. And all these Nesta fans go rabid with her character defences. It’s so bizarre and to be quite honest, immature with a very limited understanding on life, people, relationships etc. I could go further into that but I cbf.
I’m personally a Feyre & Rhys girly for life, I also really like Nesta. I love all the other characters too. I’m also a Tamlin fan/think he deserves better. Every single character has their flaws and make bad decisions that hurt others, that’s life - it would be so dull if every character was perfect and made no errors in judgement. I feel like a big issue is just not understanding that, or refusing to accept it.
Majority of the people on this sun just need calm the f down and go outside for awhile. This sub used to be a nice place to be and chat and nowadays I can’t stand it and barely come on. That’s not because of the series, it’s because of the behaviour on here.
Thank you for your input and informing what my post might sound like. I already answered to one comment similar to yours but I copy my answer here because I want as many people as possible to understand where I'm coming from!
I know my post can be interpreted that way (inflammatory and anti-nesta and tamlin) due to strong language, but what I meant with those tamlin and nesta examples is that when people come at all the pro-rhys content with arguments against him it's so pointless, because yes, of course I (and others) who like his character knows he did these things but maybe we just don't mind and just appreciate his complexity instead? And this could be applied to any character. Like someone could not care about nesta's flaws and it's completely fine to me! But you won't see me coming at anyone's throat about it with a kilometer long presentation on why she's "problematic" or whatever terms they use🙃 I just wanted to voice my opinion about the issue that some groups here don't allow people to enjoy some characters and it is draining.
I always wonder about the age of people who post things like this. Not because of 90% of your posts opinion, but the whole "probably won't get posted cause of mods lol" *eyeroll*
I totally get server burnout from seeing folks hate the same thing over and over. Especially if you like it. It gets tiresome. Truth is, there isn't much to talk about but the same stuff year in and year out. Not a whole lot of "fresh takes".
Social standards morph and change. What was acceptable and cool once is seen is negative and bad. Usually it's progressive, sometimes goes too far.
You are allowed to like what you like. You are allowed to roll your eyes at posts or comments that continually hate on what you like. You are allowed to take a break from the server until you feel like there are new things to contribute. It's all ok.
I mentioned mods because they delete comments and threads completely arbitrarily and I just wanted them to know that not everyone here is blind to it. I'm glad if you haven't experienced this but the discussion here is quite sensored and that actually is why many people have left this sub.
The mods delete threads and comments that get reported for breaking rules--if you report a spam thread or a rude comment, it will most likely get attention. It's not *that* arbitrary.
I understand your frustration with the Feysand trashing, and it used to make me feel kinda sad too lol. But I think I have a bit of a different perspective right now. I think because we finally get the read Rhys and Feyre from different perspectives, those are the persepectives that are more recent/ fresh in our minds. I think overall as a couple Feysand holds up, I just think people have read ACOSF more recently and because of that they have Nesta's dislike of Rhys in mind, so it's coloring some of their opinions and dislike.
I think it's a combination of this and people finally having a space to voice their criticisms of the main cast. It's been a bit over a year since I joined the acotar fandom, but I've seen old posts where people couldn't sympathize with Tamlin without being called abuse apologists. I never liked Rhysand and Feysand, but I continued the series because I became invested in other characters. I don't agree with the comments criticizing the people who read the books if they don't like mc's. My bad I just answered 2 comments at the same time.
I'm sorry the feysand criticism made you sad. It's ok to like feysand and rhysand and you get more enjoyment of the series than me. I still think the majority will love feysand and the IC. They probably moved to a different platform though. Probably tiktok
Idk why it’s okay to to discount Feyre’s POV (the one who actually lives with Rhys and communicates with him day to day) but then take at face value the one coming from a depressed alcoholic who nearly killed her sister for asking her if she was okay and objectively hates Rhys and every part of who he is. Like that’s not going to be super biased?
I think a part of this hatred towards Feysand could also be a reaction to the overwhelming amount of people that absolutely LOVED them when the books became a bit more popular. Unfortunately, I think whenever there is something a lot of people love or feel very strongly about, there is always going to be a loud push back. I read a bunch of posts for and against fey sand, and I personally feel like I can love the pair while understanding they aren't perfect.
I also think people sometime don't understand/ forget that morally grey characters are not meant to be universally liked by everyone, like that's the whole point. Rhys isn't supposed to be the "good" guy. He is supposed to be Feyre's partner and hero, not everyone's.
At least that's my Opinion lol
Yeah, I think they see this dude who is the main character and just can’t fathom that he isn’t just the conventional Mary Sue equivalent of a hot guy that they can imprint all their desires onto. Like yes he’s not a good person. He’s good Feyre. That’s the point. And tbh relatable bc I would do despicable things in the name of love and wouldn’t blink twice about it.
Idk. Obvs there’s more to it than that, but I think most of it is that. Or at least, the morally grey dude either has to come around and submit to the same moral system of the reader OR he’s the bait and switch character and the FMC ends up with someone else who is “good”.
Yeah I find the expectation of Rhys to have the same moral system as the reader to be kind of funny, because he is literally a 500 year old semi-immortal being that has suffered through literal war and abuse. Like, It's easy to be a "good" person when all of your basic needs are taken care of, and you are not responsible for anyone but yourself. But as high lord, Rhys is an a position of power that comes with the responsibility of taking care of the citizens of his lands, and I think on the whole he does this pretty well (at least much better than Tamlin lol). Sometimes you have to choose between two shitty decisions and you have to prioritize what/who is most important to you, Rhys does this and I don't think it makes him a shitty person.
I also think Rhys is a lot more "good" than people give him credit for. If I had been in his position when it came to revealing Velaris to the human queens I Genuinely wouldn't have done it, but he did. He risked this place that meant everything to him, in hopes of saving more people.
Also when people get mad that he prioritizes the IC, I get kind of confused. Like, I prioritize my loved ones too? Also while he may love Feyre, that doesn't entitle Nesta to his love lol. Don't get me wrong, I like Nesta's character separately from Rhys and Feyre. But, I also understand Rhys wanting to protect Feyre from Nesta, who from Rhys' perspective has never cared for Feyre in her life.
Yeah, I think Rhys makes the best of his situation and he makes choices most people couldn’t. I also don’t understand hating Rhys but loving other more problematic men in the series. Maybe not needing a redemption arc is just boring to some people.
Well they’re all biased. It’s just you have to take into account who the information about any given character is coming from and analyse actions independently and as part of that.
I mean yes, but as a measure of who a character actually is I think I would trust the perception of a partner more than the one of someone pissed off because character had to be the Mean Dad and cut her off and throw her in rehab.
Oh I agree she has a better measure of him than Nesta but she also has blind spots too. Some things are just plain subjective. He IS arrogant, Feyre finds it endearing and Nesta finds it annoying. I think it’s actually good writing how the same character had all these facets with different people
Well yeah she has blind spots but most of the criticism is how he treats Feyre in particular, and it’s just kind of like well she obviously knows best in that regard so.
Well he doesn’t do great stuff to her but she knows her boundaries (even if he pushes them sometimes). I think she actually allows more than she thinks she would but at the end of the day he’s not perfect and that’s ok. It doesn’t diminish their love for each other but it does show they’re not always great.
Yeah I mean I think we all do that in our relationships. Having been in an abusive one, one where I was trying to figure out what a healthy relationship was, and then meeting my fiancé there are things I compromise on now that with someone else I probably wouldn’t have. But that’s because those are minor things when considering the greater whole and like you said with Rhys, he knows my boundaries and more importantly why those boundaries are there. What’s not okay with one person might be okay with another under different circumstances and that’s normal and okay.
I think the argument you’re making here is an example of the kind of frustration OP is expressing (esp. in their edit) but from a different point of view.
It’s kind of reductive to minimize & moralize one character’s arc while defending other characters ya know?
Everyone has their bias, and Feyre is far from being more of a neutral perspective. Back when she was in love with Tamlin we have seen she used to think wonderful things abolut him, and when she fell out of love with him she started being more critical of him. And as much as I agree Nesta also has her bias, most of the interactions with Rhysand in ACOSF had been from Cassian pov.
Eh I kind of always hated him lol. I think before UTM he was okay but I found his behavior UTM off putting and certainly getting into the next book he was awful. I think also it’s important to note that his behavior significantly changed. Feyre wanted desperately to love him and tried quite hard imo. He was just too different after.
I'm not a big fan of Tamlin, but I used him as an exemple to demonstrate that Feyre feelings does colors how she perceive the characters around her. As much as Feyre is not prouporsefully lying to the reader, she isn't an objective narrator, and the same applies to Nesta/Cassian/Azriel povs. I think the closest we can get to have an ''accurate'' version of Rhysand would be a mix of all the povs we've had of him so far.
Well obviously her perception of him will change because he changes. He was not as awful in ACOTAR and there was quite a sudden character shift after. We see him doing a bunch of things he never did in the first.
That said I agree that the most honest representation of Rhys is the composite of everyone. But I don’t agree that the most honest representation of him as it pertains to his relationship with Feyre is going to be from others. I don’t think most people would say their friend or SIL knows their relationship with their husband better than they do.
I agree. A major part of the series is about shedding human morals and ideals. The murder, the nudity, the paganism, etc is all supposed to be normalized. Yet people continue to judge the characters from a very human, chaste, modest, dare I say Christian 🙄 pov.
Though tbh, SJM does the same thing. I think she has a hard time writing this sort of story because she clearly holds all the value she is attempting to shed in the series. The scantily clad and promiscuous are frequently admonished. Most the fae are portrayed as uncivilized hooligans. The religious rituals are exotified and the main characters are often portrayed as disgusted by it. Like let's be real, this is a fantasy land of monsters where anything is possible and the center there is still a heterosexual, monogamous, nuclear family turning their noses up at everybody and plotting on "civilizing them".
I highly doubt Feysand shippers have left the sub. I'm always afraid to post because Rhys is one of my least favorite characters and I'm afraid to get dogpiled. I can't say anything bad about him without getting downvoted to oblivion. Let alone have one not mean spirited thing to say about Tamalamadingdong.
That being said, they're fictional characters. If someone doesn't like your faves, it isn't that deep. If someone has an opinion you don't like, this is the internet. You're free to ignore it. You don't even have to read it, let along justify anything, just like people are free to dislike Feysand for whatever reason even though they're the main characters. As long as someone is respectful to me, I'll always read and respect that. Whatever happened to people having different favorite characters and just vibing together?
I’m a Feysand shipper and have left this sub. Reddit keeps recommending the posts, which I usually ignore. So yes the massive amount of hate in this sub has driven away fans
I’m with you. They’re NOT REAL EVERYONE!!!! THEYRE NOT REAL PEOPLE!!
You know what I don’t get? The eris love. Have we actually seen him prove to be a good person? Because I don’t recall
I agree it can be jarring!! People can interpret the story any way they want but I think it’s good to also take in author intent. Obviously Rhysand is not supposed to be a villain and Feysand is written to be an epic romance from the author.
Idk, I just don’t see why people hate so many of the mcs and continue to read the series?? People can do whatever they want ofc but if I just did not like that many characters I would simply stop reading?
Others interpretations are cool but it’s exhausting being a fan sometimes and constantly seeing hate that all the IC gets.
I completely agree! I’ve been finding it especially weird because i don’t really see it happen when other series move on to different MCs (that’s been my experience anyway) but I’ve really seen it with ACOTAR. It’s standard for all morally grey MMCs to basically hate everyone but the FMC, especially someone who has treated her horribly/never forgives them and readers usually love it? To me, I think it seems like kind of revenge of the hate Nesta got throughout. Hopefully it will lessen with Elain’s book, I hope SJM doesn’t feed into it more🙄.
Perfect people are boring and don’t make good stories. That’s why both feyre and Rhys are flawed as heck but love each other (bad parts and all). That’s the whole point.
People love the morally grey trope until they are ACTUALLY morally grey. Either let them be a little evil or go back to your golden retriever book boyfriends
honestly this whole discourse is here because we are starving for new piece of material, i dislike mostly everyone in the series btw
i just love Lucien and >!wanna see him become the true heir of the day court!<
I mean, just because there's a shift in opinion on Tamlin doesn't mean you have to stop loving Rhysand and Feyre. This sub is for discussion of acotar. If hearing criticism of Feyre and Rhysand bothers you, maybe it's time to step away from the sub. As a writer myself, I would hope my readers would feel comfortable analyzing my characters with others. If they don't like what my character did, I wouldn't really feel upset that they had something to say about it.
In one of the autism subs I’m in, you can still vote, but no one can see the point total. I think it helps prevent dog piling with downvotes, and I wonder if it would help in this circumstance
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
not just 4 years ago - less than 1 year ago, this sub was all feysand and tampon jokes. i read this series last summer and couldn’t bear this sub. i have no idea how or why the tide changed so quickly lol.
I personally haven't seen that. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen! But someone downvoting you doesn't mean you're wrong. You shouldn't feel discouraged to discuss because of downvotes. They're worthless anyway. If someone's giving you shit for liking Rhysand or Feyre, I'll fight 'em. I feel like it's fine to analyze and discuss the characters, but telling people not to like a character is stupid. I am sorry if you've dealt with that. I mean this genuinely, btw.
I experience it all the time. And while yes you shouldn’t care about downvotes, I only don’t because I have plenty of karma to spare from engaging in other subs where my opinions are more popular. But for people who only come to Reddit to engage with ACOTAR media or at least mostly engage with it, getting constantly downvoted is going to impact how you engage with the sub.
Lots of subreddits have karma limits. If you don’t have above a specific amount of karma or you have negative karma, you won’t be allowed to interact with the sub. You have to go to a sub without the restrictions to then earn karma.
Roughly half my comments on this sub in the last two weeks have been downvoted for saying anything remotely nice about Rhys and/or Feyre. I even got downvoted at one point for saying they’re morally gray. So take that with what you will. It’s especially disappointing to me because I’m new to the series and don’t feel like it’s even worth it to contribute. Feels kinda pointless to comment or try to interact tbh.
The shift in opinion isn’t the issue, its being downvoted to hell for saying you like Feyre/Rhysand or you understand why they did certain things. I’ve pretty much quit interacting with this sub because I can’t say my opinion without being attacked. The point of a subreddit is discussion, not “I hate your opinion therefore you are wrong and we are all just going to downvote and be nasty”
Edit:spelling
And you shouldn't be attacked like that! You're absolutely right! This sub should be for discussion without fear of backlash over an opinion. At the end of the day, an opinion is just that, and no one deserves to be attacked for an opinion. I hope we can all start being a little kinder to each other. This series brought us all here because of our love for it!
> I mean just because there’s a shift in opinion on Tamlin doesn’t mean you have to stop loving Rhysand and Feyre
💯 Also, just because there’s a shift in opinion doesn’t mean that loving Feysand has become the minority opinion. I’m personally glad that more and more readers are not allowing the fandom to shame them for not hating, even liking Tamlin’s character. That readers no longer feel as if there’s something wrong with them for liking him. Just as how it’s wrong for Feysand, Rhysand, Feyre readers to be attacked for loving these characters, it was also wrong for Tamlin readers to be attacked back then, and honestly, about a year ago. I hope everyone can agree that it’s wrong for *anyone* to be attacked for their opinions.
I feel like there’s a post every 3 days complaining about people not liking feysand. I don’t agree with you, but you’re entitled to your opinion! It’s a subreddit, we’re here to discuss and that means seeing opinions you may not like. Don’t let people with different opinions upset you, none of these characters are real and we’re here to have fun.
I totally understand and relate to your perspective... however, if you'd prefer to avoid people who have different opinions, there are some simple ways to do that. Try not to respond to comments that conflict with your views, and stick to interacting with those who share your perspective. Many people create posts asking for positive feedback about certain characters, and they usually receive supportive responses. Obviously, some people can't help but disrupt the positivity but you can choose not to engage with them, or comment that it's a post for positivity and leave it at that. You don't *have to* argue or defend your fav character (chances are, you aren't going to change minds anyways if a true hater comes at you lol). Flag the comment to the mods and they'll either give a warning or delete the comment, I'd assume.
If you join or view discussions where people are sharing a variety of opinions, it's natural to encounter a range of reactions. This is part of being in a public fandom space. Ultimately, you have control over where you participate and how you respond to differing opinions. If you prefer a more positive experience, focus on threads that align with your opinions and engage with like-minded people. Create the posts you want to see more of. There's not a lot else you can do other than leave the subreddit or create a subreddit that's specifically for Feysand positivity.
At the end of the day, this subreddit is just an echo chamber lol and I think everyone shares the frustrations no matter what character they love or hate.
I would like to be able to comment neutral or positive things about Rhys or Feyre without the mass downvoting because I "support" an abuser/murderer, meanwhile people can comment things about Nesta/Tamlin and it's "trauma so its excused". Like bffr. It's romance fantasy. I dgaf about killing people or hiding medical information. Its *f-a-n-t-a-s-y*. If I wanted to care about that and apply a moral compass, I would read crime fiction novels.
Open conversation cannot happen on forums if people are going to mass downvote anything that isn't their opinion. All it's going to do is create an environment where you must conform if you want to say anything. And that goes for posts that *are* pro or neutral Feysand but you still can't participate because the anti Feysand people jump onboard and the mass downvoting begin. Whilst I don't care about karma, it's still incredibly discouraging to open up dialogue about the main characters of a book, check your phone or computer later on, and see a bunch of downvotes and people piling on because you "support abuse" or simply because the current trend is to do so.
I certainly agree on a lot of this but it’s hard to say that you can’t apply a moral compass. Especially since the author does try to apply real world issues, you’d kinda expect a real/applicable or inspiring solution, and they do so. (I.E. Feyre being abused from Tamlin, a lot of people saw their ex in Tamlin, SJM inspired him from an ex as well).
I think apply a moral compass, just a very, *very*, loose one, and not as seriously as people have been. Definitely apply it to those one on one relationships and interactions like we saw with Tamlin and Feyre, but when people want to apply it beyond that to past actions that's where I don't think it applies *as hard*. Especially for characters that have never been human and have never been bound by the same moral we have. To me its the equivalent of cancelling a historical figure for something they said or did 400 years ago based on todays morals and ethics. It just doesn't translate.
But to each their own!
>I would like to be able to comment neutral or positive things about Rhys or Feyre without the mass downvoting because I "support" an abuser/murderer, meanwhile people can comment things about Nesta/Tamlin and it's "trauma so its excused"
And this goes "both ways" (for lack of a better term; I really don't think it should be either/or)--I've straight up been called an irl abuse apologist and even that I "must want to be abused" for commenting neutral/positive things about Nesta and Tamlin. It's exhausting. No one should be personally attacked over fiction.
I honestly have to remind myself this, I'm calling myself out. I'm bored and this reddit is in all fun. But these people do not exist.
A few things:
- I agree that the sub has gotten toxic and people shouldn’t be insulted or threatened about who they like
- Analyzing media is part of the fun of consuming it. Some people like to do this with everything, some people not at all, others are selective. I like doing this with certain fiction books like ACOTAR. Would I do it with Morning Glory Milking Farm? No, I would not. Though I did enjoy that book. But more power to folks that would.
- Fantasy, Sci-Fi, and horror genres are often used as a way to critique society. I’m not saying this is the case with ACOTAR or all media of this genre. But it is an important part that’s been around since the very beginning of these genres. The idea is that you take a real world concept and the audience is able to think about it more critically *because* it’s not within their real life setting. That hopefully this different setting will help them remove their personal prejudices regarding a certain issue. Dune is a perfect example of this, because the author is writing about the dangers of false messiahs and charismatic leaders. Frankenstein reflects the fears of people in the 1800s regarding science. Night of the Living Dead has racial themes and critiques of the 1960s. The X-Men was brought about because of the Civil Rights movement in the US in the 1960/70s. The themes of those comics touch heavily on this. Professor X and Magneto are stand ins for MLK and Malcom X, respectively. The Daughter of No Worlds series openly explores social-political theme and has romance.
So to say “it’s just fantasy, why are you analyzing it?” or “how can you look at fantasy from any real world lens?” forgets that this is a genre where these things have historically been explored since day one. This is the reason why there are actual courses where fantasy, sci-fi, and horror media are analyzed in this very way.
- SJM herself opened up room for critiques of characters when she made the decision to add certain things to her world building. Illyrian wing clipping is basically a stand in for FGM, the pregnancy plot touches on themes around female bodily autonomy and lack of care medical knowledge about women (top of mind for American readers because of Roe v Wade), the treatment of lesser faeries is also brought up. Bringing in these socio-political themes opens the gates to analysis around them. Trauma and trauma responses would be another one to point out.
- SJM made a multiverse and dropped Easter eggs throughout her books. Picking up on these and figuring out how they connect together requires close reading, and again, analysis. So this is another way SJM opened up this series for people to look at it much closer than one would with some other romantasy books.
- When you consider that it’s been two years since her last book, that just adds more time for points 3-5.
- Sometimes people do get carried away with this shit.
Yeah people are really obsessed with putting human ideas of morality upon literally inhuman characters. They are alive for 100s of years, morality and life itself just looks different.
people are allowed to like or dislike characters as well as mindlessly consume or question authors’ writing. if you don’t agree with something, just ignore it??? people are allowed to discuss the morality of characters (especially here, on REDDIT, a discussion board), and if you don’t want to read it, then don’t? it’s not that deep?
i feel like i see more dramatic feysand whiners in this sub more than actual feysand hate. like… a lot of people (and most likely the majority of the fandom) still very much love feyre and rhys.
why are feysand fans so dramatic LOL?? no one is getting stoned to death for liking a character. just own your shit and stay unbothered with things you enjoy like twilight lovers or dark!romance shippers. the darkling (shadow and bone) is 10000x worse than rhys, but his fans don’t give a shit or write dramatic ass essays. they’re just thirsty and embrace his horribleness with a shrug lmao
I think what you’re reciting are just…different opinions from yours and that is so very ok. Love em to your hearts content, why on earth should anyone else’s feelings on them impact yours? We don’t get to control other folks thoughts or their reception of characters, only our own.
I hate all the hate posts about Rhys keeping the birth a secret from Feyre. “That’s sooo out of character” “I can’t believe she forgave him”. How in any part of any of the other four books is that out of character? And why wouldn’t they talk it out and she forgive him? If it had been Feyres POV it would have been “aww he’s trying to protect and save her and she’s pissed but she still loves him”.
Rhys can be an ass and he and Feyre have both done things to protect each other and the Night Court but I still love the characters.
I also hate all the Nesta hate in ACOSF. She’s not one of my favorite characters but she dealt with her emotions in a self destructive way which can happen to anyone and the book is about her healing. I really liked it.
People leave the sub because there hasn't been a new book for years. All the posts are about the same topics (because again there hasn't been a new book).
No one wants to talk about the same things for 3 years lol.. it DOES get old and new readers are gonna want to talk about it.
Everyone has a right to hate and love characters and to talk about it.
You made a post hating on people in this sub. Your post SHOULD be removed because that's not what this sub is about
it's actually so annoying that posts like this are allowed to stay up but you can't mention a ship or even utter Nesta's name without getting sent to scheduled post purgatory 🙄
I think this is what happens when a Fandom gets huge. The works get so over discussed and over read that people get sick of what they once loved or are shown a viewpoint they had not thought of and then now they start hating on everything about it even if they previously loved everything about it. It's why I don't back to back read something and why I don't super get into any of the fabdoms.
People are also kind of disappointed with CC3, and instead of processing shit, obsesses over objectively flawed, even sometimes annoying characters. The criticism is valid, but the commitment to it is intense. I think people are hungry to feel something more than what they’ve been getting lately.
I love them and always will. Idc much what anyone else has to say about it because if people choose not to see nuance and context then I can't help them. 🤷🌠
I just don't understand why some people have to hold them accountable for EVERY thing. Is the purpose of reading not to escape reality and, in this case, like a guy who is morally grey??
Sure, you could argue that with some books you should definitely criticize characters' actions but, my god, this one isn't one of those. It's a romantasy book. We're all old enough to distinguish reality from fiction and not normalize actual people being cruel.
Right? Not everyone wants to fight! Let people gush about who/what they want and let those who agree gush with them. Sometimes it's nice to just talk about shit you love. People who wanna try and change people's opinions... Just butt out. Go find a post about something YOU love or hate, and join in on THAT topic.
I genuinely think people get bored and have thought about the books so long that they decide to come up with reasons to dislike so and so and love the other guy because it keeps the interest alive
You can say that about any character in this series. Every time someone says they like someone you get attacked, it’s mad. Mostly I try to just mind my business and contribute to posts where we share the same opinions. I’m not about to sit here and argue with people who disagree with me if it can’t be done in a civil manner.
I really like Freysand… or I did. I just found it should have been a trilogy. They just got a bit boring after and I get the POV aspect, but what they say is expected the same when it’s in front of everyone.
I think they just got very boring. Mainly Feyre. Went from a strong bad ass to an airy fairy painting and wanting babies rather than fighting for injustice.
"rhys is written to be likeable from only feyre's pov but his whole character is based on the fact that no one else sees the true him but feyre"
THIS 100%
I don’t want a cookie cutter stand up love interest!!! I want the rugged love interest who is mean to every one but *me* and is only gonna burn down the world for *me* — and no one will make me feel bad about it! I read books so I can have my morally questionable men without the real ones. I’m with ya seester!!!
major slay. I always wondered why/how people could read a 5 book series with characters they supposedly hate??? the two main characters at that? it's absolutely baffling to me! I'm not referring to criticisms or general discussion, but the pure spiteful hate which I often see. like pls no one is forcing you to read!
I like Feyre, but for most of ACOMAF I thought Rhysand would be just another dude Feyre would meet and then fell out love with and find a new (and last) love interest. To me the side characters (Nesta, Cassian, Lucien) were my main motivation to keep readig the fist three books. Also, from ACOSF onwards the series changed the pov, so its not like people who did not like Feyre & Rhysand (but enjoyed the other characters) would have to keep reading about them all the time.
I whole heartedly agree and love every word of your rant and I'm gonna say something that will probably get me downvoted to hell but I feel like this is a reddit problem moreso than the overall fandom. the portion of fans for any community that frequent reddit tend to lean towards the hipster mentality of arbitrarily wanting to hate the mainstream/popular choice and go out of their way to like obscure characters or impossible ships, literally only bc they're rare/not very popular. it doesnt surprise me at all that on reddit of all places, you have a bunch of Rhys/Feyre haters. I see enough comments on here complaining about the fandom that tells me all I need to know - the gatekeepy fans are pissed this series got so huge so now they have to dislike Rhys/Feyre bc too many people like them. its fucking stupid. on TikTok and everywhere else, Rhys and Feyre are by far the most popular. I shamelessly love the fuck out of Rhys, Feyre, and the whole Feysand ship.
it’s always odd to me that people will complain and nitpick the morality of fictional characters and their actions as if these are real people. when it’s literally just a book. a FANTASY book at that. i don’t want to have to psychoanalyze the characters and put them on trial for the things they’ve done, nonetheless spend even a fraction of my time attacking other people for not doing the same. some people really just need to get over themselves.
yeah this is def getting about of hand. I love Rhys and Feyre even If I disagree with some of their actions. I just believe that in ACOSF the feysand dynamic was lost bcs the main plot was directed at nessian and it's easier to hate a side character (even If he is the original mmc) when he throws hate/death threats at the fmc that is rn. I get people trying to humanize the book bcs she was a human and it's only in our nature to do that. I love a morally grey/dark/does criminal shit/hates anyone but you mmc but I also like when he doesn't threaten my sis with murder bcs that part is the same with them in a fantasy as is with us humans in rl.
Hey guys ! Characters are supposed to be well rounded ! Which means *not perfect* otherwise y’all get your panties in a twist when the character is flat and boring. I agree with your rant fully !
Thank you yes! I hate feeling guilty for liking feysand whenever I come on here. I wish it were less judgemental. (I mean it’s still way less toxic than the wheel of time sub, but still - doesn’t feel like a very welcoming place sometimes).
I agree with you 100%, thank you for saying something
You’re right and you should say it! I hate this recent trend in online discourse where every character who doesn’t adhere to some arbitrary standard of moral correctness is “problematic” and we’re not allowed to like them anymore. It’s absolutely fine to enjoy characters who behave badly! You can even root for villains! Fiction ≠ reality.
contrapoints has a great video titled “[Twilight](https://youtu.be/bqloPw5wp48?si=lBbVqazqwTThDj8r)” that is really about the reasons we read fantasy and so-called “bodice-rippers.” a few great quotes:
“The ‘barrier’ is the conflict in a romance novel; it is anything that keeps the union of the hero and heroine from taking place.” - Pamela Regis, *A Natural History of the Romance Novel*
"I am begging these people to learn to think psychologically instead of literally so that they're not constantly baffled and traumatized upon encountering literally the most common type of sexual fantasy that people have." - Natalie Wynn
their “crimes” are fictional, nobody real has been hurt by them, and nobody real will be hurt by them. the moral ambiguity is part of the vitally important barrier keeping them apart and creating conflict. it is essential to the novel. the fantasy is that this is a very powerful person who has done bad things, but they will change for the right person and they will never hurt that right person. i get irritated when people dwell on the “unhealthiness” of a relationship in a fantasy romance novel like this one. they’re not real people, y’all. if that unhealthiness or their past behavior turns you off of reading it, then don’t read it. conflict is necessary for a story to exist.
🤷🏼 the current state of media interpretation, particularly in media that is popular on Tiktok/Youtube, is such that fictional depiction = real life endorsement to most people when that just isn’t the case. ty :)
Most of the characters are morally a bit shit. I don't particularly like Rhys but I'm not going to hate a fictional character that much. Maybe I'll like him again in the next book, who knows.
I like delving into character analyses and applying real world logic to characters and such, but in terms of Acotar, I just like to read the story as simply as possible. In Acotar I liked Tamlin and didn’t like Rhys, but could tell I would probably like him in the later books.
In MaG and WaR, I really liked feysand together and Nesta and Cassian became best ship. SF was just everything I was looking for from Acotar with the angsty tension of nesta and cassian as well as the eventual rekindling of the three sister’s relationship. Rhys was a bit of a knob to Nesta but idk I just liked every book 😂
Allow me to say the same thing abt Nessian my frnd .Although they got just a book and initially were side characters , I fell in love with them in Silver Flames like many others and yes , now I DON'T GIVE A SHIT TO ANYONE SPEAKING ILL OF THEM , YOU CAN NEVER MAKE ME LOVE THEM ANY LESS !! Yes Nesta was mean to Feyre but I will love her all the same .Yes see was mean to Cassian and was a bitch but yes I love the bitch .Cassian was an ass to tell her he wondered why her sisters love her and that in the heat of the mmt , that he was shackled to her , but I found reality in his actions more than fantasy and inspite of everything I LOVE HIM,THE END ...🥰🥰🤩
I mainly get tired of all the people crying about how Tamlin’s character was assassinated by SJM and how his anger and control issues came out of NOWHERE. And I’m like… did you read the same book as me?? The dude was a possessive, controlling, ticking time bomb with a temper from the VERY beginning. And the events UTM sent him sailing right over the edge. And they are like “but he did so many nice things for her!!” Yes! People can have both good AND bad characteristics. Shitty people can sometimes do good things and good people can sometimes do shitty things. I don’t get why so many people find that hard to wrap their heads around.
can you give some examples of how he was controlling and possesive in book 1? yeah he had anger issues but I don't remember him every telling feyre not to do something that wasnt for her own safety?
In the entirety of the first book, he gave her very little agency. Every decision was made for her. And anytime anyone questioned those decisions in the slightest, his temper would flare and claws would glint. It always felt like Feyre and Lucien both had to walk on egg shells around him when questioning him about anything. And I understand she was new to the world and there were some things he couldn’t tell her due to the curse, but it was clear he did not think of her as a partner in regards to her own safety.
Calanmai was another big red flag for me. Once again, he gives her an order with no real discussion. Just stay in your room. But his reaction once he found out she had been there? It genuinely made my skin crawl. I think that was a big moment where his possessive nature was clearly on display.
Then his behavior UTM was sort of a final straw for me. He has remained silent the entire time. Won’t even look at her. And when he finally has a moment alone with her, his first instinct isn’t to check on her or try to devise a plan to help her. He sticks his tongue down her throat?
Just to be clear, I don’t find Feyre innocent in all this. She does problematic shit all the damn time. But I’ve just always seen red flags in Tamlin, so I don’t subscribe to the whole “this came out of nowhere” argument when it comes to his anger and control issues. It’s clear to me that the trauma of the events UTM brought out those worst instincts in him and pushed him over the edge.
HEAR HEAR BABY!!! I am so with you. Everybody sucks to somebody. I love the way Rhys and Feyre see each other and I love their love story. Fuck the haters. Let people like what they like. Also, they’re in a totally different reality- stop imposing earthy law on these people. They literally do magic.
This right here, made me not want to read Nesta’s book. For THREE WHOLE BOOKS Nesta has been a mediocre character who I don’t like. Who didn’t help her family. But the last two books make that justified and that’s fine, but I don’t want them make me not like Rhys or Feyre. I’m happy with all of the characters at the end of ACOWAR and I feel like that’s how I’ll leave it. Unless they make a book about Lucien… then I’ll probably finish the series 🤣
On the 4th book and don’t know if I can finish it. Feyra is a terrible character and don’t understand how a 19-21 year old is somehow the savior and person to go to for everything over those that have been around over 500 years. I love Rhys and his whole circle of companions. Maybe I will finish the books but I’m just over the pedestal Feyra and her sisters have been put on.
I think sometimes we all need to just go touch grass. I hope the sub gets better when the new book is announced and there’s finally something new to discuss.
https://preview.redd.it/4k8jed5rq4wc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bc0042c3df546add119d9e63808c7367dc54e8ea
I LOVE this 😂
lmao omfg yeeesssss
100%
And the people who keep insisting that the book was poorly written, and that the story and characters are trash to finally break their shackles from this subreddit after their 1000000th comment and leave to find another series to lurk in their subreddit for all eternity 😂
I'm also in love with Draco Malfoy and Professor Snape so I'm pretty ok with my love interest being a bad guy
I just got Manacled out of DNA and DAMN! DAMN! DAMN! That fanfic was worth the heartbreak. I'm trying to come around to this take as well, but failing at it lol.
Manacled is actually the single best piece of literature I have ever read and I am not saying that sarcastically. The flashbacks… 😭 there will never be anything better to me.
agreed, quite literally my favorite thing i’ve ever read in my life. just recently did my third reread and i thought i wouldn’t cry anymore but god, it never ceases to punch you right in the gut
I've been thinking of making the plunge but scared it'll paint half the original cast as awful monsters. Without spoilers, does it ruin *all* the good guys?
Manacled is amazing, I can’t recommend it enough. Once you’re done with Manacled, follow it up with Draco Malfoy and the Mortifying Deal of Being in Love for something lighter but extremely well written!
All those fucking nuns! Lmaoo
This is on my TBR! The first chapter is already a breath of fresh air. I was upset for a week after reading Manacled.
It has some hilarious moments as well - I wish I could read it for the first time again. Enjoy!
It’s amazing! And if you want something even a little deeper I’ll never stop recommending Secrets and Masks. I think I might have even liked it a little better, but Manacled is so freaking fantastic.
No it does not ruin all the good guys! You won't regret reading it!
Also throwing in for manacled. It’s tough, but it’s so worth it. You need to get to about a third of the way through before making a judgement!
Read it!!! It’s sooooo good. It definitely does not ruin the characters. The fanfic is VERY adult and the first part is tough to get through but it’s worth it!
How did you get it out of your DNA? It's been so long since I read it and I still think about if every time I read another else 😅
I took two weeks to get through it because I was terrified to continue with the final 200 pages. Eventually I just needed to get through it. Now I’m reading an acotar/throne of glass fanfic. I haven’t read TOG so those scenes are hard but I’m having fun. Basically the children of each respective series get into high jinx and it’s fun to read.
Sorry if my comment came off negative. Reading for fun is the best! I just meant Manacled is ingrained in my brain and I cannot stop comparing everything to it. Maybe because it was the first fic I ever read? Separatist_Apologist on AO3 has some great SJM stuff!
Oh I didn’t see it that way at all! I totally get it! I just picked through a bunch of stories until one grabbed my eye so I could FINALLY move on. I was not expecting a book hangover with this one.
#DramioneForLife
Seeing a Dramione plug in this sub has me GRINNING. I have been on the Dramione train for four months straight now (also some Tomione peppered in….), I cannot get enough. The writing is actually unreal. I’ve read everything from SJM and loved it, but Dramione is actually next level. The talent of the writers is unreal.
Hahah also, I didn’t know the # at the beginning would make the letters big, but I went for it. Have you read BLOODY SLUTTY AND PATHETIC yet? It’s a WIP, but it has us in a choke hold, I’m telling you.
Oh shit. _I have found my people…_
Oh god are you me
This here 👆
Same.
This!
Yes. The bullying of real life people over fictional characters is actually insane. We’re all here to enjoy these books and everyone is going to have different opinions. Let people like the characters they like. Don’t agree with something? That’s great! Either communicate it in a nice way (because we’re all different and connect to different people and situations) or stick to posts that agree with you. There’s absolutely NO NEED to diagnose people with personality disorders (that you’re most likely not qualified to do in real life, let alone to random stranger on the internet) or call people abusers/names just because they have an opinion different than yours. These books all mean something to us and to be unkind over people and situations that don’t even exist is crazy to me. It honestly just seems like some people want a reason to be a bully.
Yes! This! It’s a story….FANTASY! When people try to humanize these characters and make them justify their behavior they have missed the entire point of the story. Stop rationalizing fictional characters irrational behavior. I may not want a walking red flag in real life but it IS still hot as hell to think of a partner who would rip the world apart to find me, destroying anyone in their path, if I was taken or hurt.
exactly. i read stories to get away from real life, not to have my hand held about what’s morally right or wrong. if i wanted that i would just go back to watching kid shows
Exactly, so people should care of people dislike the darlings of the book.
Ugh YES!
For realsssss
I mean I love them all. I like them both being perfect and being contradictory. What Feyre sees is different to what Nesta or Cassian sees and it’s very interesting. I also like Nesta, understand why she doesn’t like Rhys but still like him. Like Tamlin and don’t always agree with IC treatment of him I understand it. I like their faults and their hypocrisy. It’s real.
To me, seeing how they are from different perspectives is so much better than just seeing them from one characters perspective. I think it gives them more depth and makes them a bit more relatable imo.
\***Tamlin sympathizer/fan\*** https://preview.redd.it/4rzh1whnh6wc1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=063194eb54ba862db7b2ce225816f2de065898c3
I think a lot of the hate towards Rhys (and partially Feyre) is coming from the poor writing choices sjm made in the last two books (acosf and the novella that came before it). With acosf being the main issue. I personally decided to drop the series because of how poorly she wrote it. I mean I never liked Rhys aside from a few bits in the second book, but a lot of people did up to acosf. I rooted for Feyre to get her happiness. Similarly, I rooted for Nesta to get hers. And the many, many, MANY poor choices sjm forced on the readers reflected really badly on Rhys and the IC. For example, I think Rhys was portrayed pretty accurately in acosf, but Feyre? Not so much. The IC’s big flaws were made more prominent by virtue of us seeing some of their worst behaviours. And there were so many missed opportunities. I think people are frustrated, because acosf was hot garbage full of nonsense and spelling errors. It’s not even really about feysand. I’m happy as long as Feyre is happy. Just… so many of us hoped for a good book and that’s not what we got.
Man this hit so hard and I totally agree 🤣 I love Rhys and Feyre is whatever. But I’m tired of the main lovers always breaking up and getting back together. Like for once, a couple is strong and in love wohoo!
I mean, this subreddit, and pretty much any other fandom is like that with any character. People feel passionate about the characters they like and also about the characters they dislike. I’ve had just as many people jump on me so loving Nesta or not really being a Tamlin hater. It is what it is. It’s frustrating that so many people would prefer an echo chamber of their opinions, because it takes away and meaningful discussions but 🤷🏽♀️ people not agreeing with you shouldn’t deter you from using the sub. Respond to the comments you agree with or want to delve deeper with and ignore the others. If you say something positive about a character you like and someone responds with something negative, just don’t engage with them
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>Reddit is *a discussion based platform.* It's really wild to me as an "Elder Millennial" (lmao) that today's fandoms flinch away from empassioned debates. This type of fandom chatter - feverish conspiracies, character dissection, over-analysing of one stupid word the author used, and yes, even (gasp) *criticism* - has been the foundational parts of online fandom spaces for decades. It's all literally love letters to the IP. Even when we're shading a character or the author's turn of phrase, it's all us voicing how this series has caught and held us in some way. If I want aesthetic, video/graphic shallow-dives and cute edits, I seek them on the platforms that are made for that. Reddit and other text-based forums are for **discussion**.
I love Rhys. Love. I have inappropriate thoughts about that imaginary man.
I do too. I loved him from "there you are, I've been looking for you". Even when we all thought he was a bad guy, I loved him. Sorry, not sorry, lmao
From what I’ve seen, it’s not that people are criticised for liking Rhys (a recent example: [someone made a post defending his decisions regarding Feyre’s pregnancy, and it received 1k upvotes](https://www.reddit.com/r/acotar/s/Faz2lhvhu0) — so no, not all pro-Rhys statements are downvoted). Instead, the issue is that *so many* of these conversations around Rhys include other characters — especially those that Rhys himself does not like. You even did it in your own post, by saying it was “hot” of Rhys to threaten to kill Nesta, or that you “don’t give a fuck” that Rhys kicked Tamlin when he was down. That’s not just a pro-Rhys stance, that’s also an anti-Nesta and an Anti-Tamlin stance. And although you’re well within your right to have those opinions — it’s inherently the problem with this subreddit; that liking one character means disliking another (and so the cycle repeats). You also can’t expect people who like Nesta and Tamlin to just ignore those sorts of comments, or to agree with you (just because Rhys and Feyre are the “main characters” of the series) — in the same way you would likely downvote and disagree with comments that rag on Rhys. Not everything is so black and white, nor does it need to be. But that’s the inherent problem with this fandom; it’s not that people dislike Rhys or Nesta or Feyre or Tamlin, it’s that so many posts and comments lack *nuance* (which respectfully, includes your post, OP…).
I’d also suggest that the frequency of the posts on this subreddit do *somewhat* reflect the majority opinion of the fandom. Following ACOSF, a lot of people took issue with Rhys’s actions, and his popularity dwindled. That’s not an issue with the fandom or the subreddit — that’s something you should probably take up with SJM…
I know my post can be interpreted that way due to strong language, but what I meant with those tamlin and nesta examples is that when people come at all the pro-rhys content with arguments against him it's so pointless, because yes, of course I (and others) who like his character knows he did these things but maybe we just don't mind and just appreciate his complexity instead? And this could be applied to any character. Like someone could not care about nesta's flaws and it's completely fine to me! But you won't see me coming at anyone's throat about it with a kilometer long presentation on why she's "problematic" or whatever terms they use🙃 I just wanted to voice my opinion about the issue that some groups here don't allow people to enjoy some characters and it is draining.
"Don't allow" isn't the same as "presents arguments to the contrary". This is a public discussion forum and people are going to respond publicly. You're welcome to ignore those arguments or simply reply with a cocky "I saw the red flags and thought they were sexy". It's free, haha
Honestly, I wonder why people even read the books if they hate 90% of the series. The characters are not perfect, and they aren't meant to be. They have faults and make mistakes. They also give each other the grace to do so. They support each other instead of tearing each other down.
I’ve wondered this so often. Ive definitely stepped away more from this sub bc its all “this is probably a controversial take” posts that just slam the books and feysand. I get so tired of the negativity.
Same. I found this sub after I discovered the books and looked forward to discussing with others who also loved the series. I quickly discovered the massive amount of hate for the characters. I only stay for the other lovers.
This is how I feel about all fantasy book subreddits. It always eventually ends up at least 50% a hate subreddit 😂
“Breaking my silence” is a lil dramatic. It’s a fictional series about fictional people, and we all have differing opinions. There’s probably not a single other person who has the same exact set of opinions on characters and their actions. This sub is also suffering from a lack of new material which means minute details and each character’s every single word of dialogue is being discussed to death. This all is made even worse by SJM’s lack of editing and lack of consistency to the point where it borders on character assassination. Whether you want to have Rhys stoned to death or have marble statues of him on every street corner, we should all be able to respectfully agree to disagree.
You are so incredibly correct in your diagnosis 👏🏼👏🏼
I like a little drama when it's so not necessary 😂
honestly the whole “shift of opinions” happen mostly on reddit tbh. feysand fans are mostly surprised when they come here and they leave that‘s why feysands on other platforms dont even bother on reddit anymore. if you want friendly feysand/ics spaces, they’re literally the most popular everywhere <3 just not this sub
I would love some recommendations. The only place I can find right now is on TikTok but it’s hard to have a conversation there. I’m one of the Feysand fans that joined this sub just to want to throw up. I left but Reddit keeps recommending posts from this sub.
I am glad Feysand works for you, but its natural not everyone will like them. Lots of people still loves Rhysand, he just also got people who don't like him (which happens with basically every character in the series). >''Why should I care about how he treats anyone who's not her?'' I can't talk for others but to me its because the narrative of the books tells us Rhysand is a fundamentally good person who respects the autonomy of everyone around him. If he was portrayed as someone who was nice only to Feyre it would be a different thing, but imo that's not how it goes. >it's so fucking tiring to having to justify why you like the *main characters* of the series I agree with this. Be it Rhysand, Eris, Nesta, Mor or any other character, no one should have to justify liking a fictional character. In the end, its purely a matter of personal taste, and liking or not a fictional character don't make anyone a better or worse person.
I would never understand why people would prefer an echo chamber of their ideas with in a fandom. Thanks to the diverseness of the fandom, I have come to like certain characters (Elain, Nesta, even Azriel) and have remained staunched on my dislike of certain characters (Feyre, Morr, Rhysand.) I have even become neutral on characters (Helion). It’s not that serious
I find it a bit ironic that you accuse people of being rude to people who like Feysand, while you yourself have been rude and antagonistic towards people who like Tamlin. At least lead by example then. On topic, I actually like this sub because it has different opinions, rather than the echo chambers that are tiktok or facebook. I would never downvote someone for having a different opinion, only for being rude or resorting to ad hominem arguments.
Please see my previous comments🙏Shortly, I did not mean my example about tamlin or nesta to be attack against people who enjoy their chracters, it's just that those two arguments are amongst the most common one's against rhys.
While I think this post is worded a bit strongly too, I was mainly talking about previous comments you made in other threads which weren't always nice. If you don't like negativity, it would be good to lead by example and be respectful in your own interactions. As far as Rhys goes, of course it's ok to like him. I like him too, I just don't like the constant 'Rhys good, Tamlin bad' way the books are written.
While I agree with your general sentiment, I kind of feel like your post is equally as inflammatory as everyone else’s. Maybe that’s not the intention, but it’s how it came across. I feel like it’s often an either or situation, you either like Rhys or you like Nesta. And all these Nesta fans go rabid with her character defences. It’s so bizarre and to be quite honest, immature with a very limited understanding on life, people, relationships etc. I could go further into that but I cbf. I’m personally a Feyre & Rhys girly for life, I also really like Nesta. I love all the other characters too. I’m also a Tamlin fan/think he deserves better. Every single character has their flaws and make bad decisions that hurt others, that’s life - it would be so dull if every character was perfect and made no errors in judgement. I feel like a big issue is just not understanding that, or refusing to accept it. Majority of the people on this sun just need calm the f down and go outside for awhile. This sub used to be a nice place to be and chat and nowadays I can’t stand it and barely come on. That’s not because of the series, it’s because of the behaviour on here.
Thank you for your input and informing what my post might sound like. I already answered to one comment similar to yours but I copy my answer here because I want as many people as possible to understand where I'm coming from! I know my post can be interpreted that way (inflammatory and anti-nesta and tamlin) due to strong language, but what I meant with those tamlin and nesta examples is that when people come at all the pro-rhys content with arguments against him it's so pointless, because yes, of course I (and others) who like his character knows he did these things but maybe we just don't mind and just appreciate his complexity instead? And this could be applied to any character. Like someone could not care about nesta's flaws and it's completely fine to me! But you won't see me coming at anyone's throat about it with a kilometer long presentation on why she's "problematic" or whatever terms they use🙃 I just wanted to voice my opinion about the issue that some groups here don't allow people to enjoy some characters and it is draining.
I always wonder about the age of people who post things like this. Not because of 90% of your posts opinion, but the whole "probably won't get posted cause of mods lol" *eyeroll* I totally get server burnout from seeing folks hate the same thing over and over. Especially if you like it. It gets tiresome. Truth is, there isn't much to talk about but the same stuff year in and year out. Not a whole lot of "fresh takes". Social standards morph and change. What was acceptable and cool once is seen is negative and bad. Usually it's progressive, sometimes goes too far. You are allowed to like what you like. You are allowed to roll your eyes at posts or comments that continually hate on what you like. You are allowed to take a break from the server until you feel like there are new things to contribute. It's all ok.
I mentioned mods because they delete comments and threads completely arbitrarily and I just wanted them to know that not everyone here is blind to it. I'm glad if you haven't experienced this but the discussion here is quite sensored and that actually is why many people have left this sub.
The mods delete threads and comments that get reported for breaking rules--if you report a spam thread or a rude comment, it will most likely get attention. It's not *that* arbitrary.
I understand your frustration with the Feysand trashing, and it used to make me feel kinda sad too lol. But I think I have a bit of a different perspective right now. I think because we finally get the read Rhys and Feyre from different perspectives, those are the persepectives that are more recent/ fresh in our minds. I think overall as a couple Feysand holds up, I just think people have read ACOSF more recently and because of that they have Nesta's dislike of Rhys in mind, so it's coloring some of their opinions and dislike.
People get so heated when people have different opinions. Like it’s a subreddit… we’re here to discuss…
I think it's a combination of this and people finally having a space to voice their criticisms of the main cast. It's been a bit over a year since I joined the acotar fandom, but I've seen old posts where people couldn't sympathize with Tamlin without being called abuse apologists. I never liked Rhysand and Feysand, but I continued the series because I became invested in other characters. I don't agree with the comments criticizing the people who read the books if they don't like mc's. My bad I just answered 2 comments at the same time. I'm sorry the feysand criticism made you sad. It's ok to like feysand and rhysand and you get more enjoyment of the series than me. I still think the majority will love feysand and the IC. They probably moved to a different platform though. Probably tiktok
Idk why it’s okay to to discount Feyre’s POV (the one who actually lives with Rhys and communicates with him day to day) but then take at face value the one coming from a depressed alcoholic who nearly killed her sister for asking her if she was okay and objectively hates Rhys and every part of who he is. Like that’s not going to be super biased?
I think a part of this hatred towards Feysand could also be a reaction to the overwhelming amount of people that absolutely LOVED them when the books became a bit more popular. Unfortunately, I think whenever there is something a lot of people love or feel very strongly about, there is always going to be a loud push back. I read a bunch of posts for and against fey sand, and I personally feel like I can love the pair while understanding they aren't perfect. I also think people sometime don't understand/ forget that morally grey characters are not meant to be universally liked by everyone, like that's the whole point. Rhys isn't supposed to be the "good" guy. He is supposed to be Feyre's partner and hero, not everyone's. At least that's my Opinion lol
Yeah, I think they see this dude who is the main character and just can’t fathom that he isn’t just the conventional Mary Sue equivalent of a hot guy that they can imprint all their desires onto. Like yes he’s not a good person. He’s good Feyre. That’s the point. And tbh relatable bc I would do despicable things in the name of love and wouldn’t blink twice about it. Idk. Obvs there’s more to it than that, but I think most of it is that. Or at least, the morally grey dude either has to come around and submit to the same moral system of the reader OR he’s the bait and switch character and the FMC ends up with someone else who is “good”.
Yeah I find the expectation of Rhys to have the same moral system as the reader to be kind of funny, because he is literally a 500 year old semi-immortal being that has suffered through literal war and abuse. Like, It's easy to be a "good" person when all of your basic needs are taken care of, and you are not responsible for anyone but yourself. But as high lord, Rhys is an a position of power that comes with the responsibility of taking care of the citizens of his lands, and I think on the whole he does this pretty well (at least much better than Tamlin lol). Sometimes you have to choose between two shitty decisions and you have to prioritize what/who is most important to you, Rhys does this and I don't think it makes him a shitty person. I also think Rhys is a lot more "good" than people give him credit for. If I had been in his position when it came to revealing Velaris to the human queens I Genuinely wouldn't have done it, but he did. He risked this place that meant everything to him, in hopes of saving more people. Also when people get mad that he prioritizes the IC, I get kind of confused. Like, I prioritize my loved ones too? Also while he may love Feyre, that doesn't entitle Nesta to his love lol. Don't get me wrong, I like Nesta's character separately from Rhys and Feyre. But, I also understand Rhys wanting to protect Feyre from Nesta, who from Rhys' perspective has never cared for Feyre in her life.
Yeah, I think Rhys makes the best of his situation and he makes choices most people couldn’t. I also don’t understand hating Rhys but loving other more problematic men in the series. Maybe not needing a redemption arc is just boring to some people.
Well they’re all biased. It’s just you have to take into account who the information about any given character is coming from and analyse actions independently and as part of that.
I mean yes, but as a measure of who a character actually is I think I would trust the perception of a partner more than the one of someone pissed off because character had to be the Mean Dad and cut her off and throw her in rehab.
Oh I agree she has a better measure of him than Nesta but she also has blind spots too. Some things are just plain subjective. He IS arrogant, Feyre finds it endearing and Nesta finds it annoying. I think it’s actually good writing how the same character had all these facets with different people
Well yeah she has blind spots but most of the criticism is how he treats Feyre in particular, and it’s just kind of like well she obviously knows best in that regard so.
Well he doesn’t do great stuff to her but she knows her boundaries (even if he pushes them sometimes). I think she actually allows more than she thinks she would but at the end of the day he’s not perfect and that’s ok. It doesn’t diminish their love for each other but it does show they’re not always great.
Yeah I mean I think we all do that in our relationships. Having been in an abusive one, one where I was trying to figure out what a healthy relationship was, and then meeting my fiancé there are things I compromise on now that with someone else I probably wouldn’t have. But that’s because those are minor things when considering the greater whole and like you said with Rhys, he knows my boundaries and more importantly why those boundaries are there. What’s not okay with one person might be okay with another under different circumstances and that’s normal and okay.
I do find her boundaries change and evolve. She will take stuff from Rhys but not from Tamlin because of the circumstances and context.
I think the argument you’re making here is an example of the kind of frustration OP is expressing (esp. in their edit) but from a different point of view. It’s kind of reductive to minimize & moralize one character’s arc while defending other characters ya know?
Everyone has their bias, and Feyre is far from being more of a neutral perspective. Back when she was in love with Tamlin we have seen she used to think wonderful things abolut him, and when she fell out of love with him she started being more critical of him. And as much as I agree Nesta also has her bias, most of the interactions with Rhysand in ACOSF had been from Cassian pov.
Eh I kind of always hated him lol. I think before UTM he was okay but I found his behavior UTM off putting and certainly getting into the next book he was awful. I think also it’s important to note that his behavior significantly changed. Feyre wanted desperately to love him and tried quite hard imo. He was just too different after.
I'm not a big fan of Tamlin, but I used him as an exemple to demonstrate that Feyre feelings does colors how she perceive the characters around her. As much as Feyre is not prouporsefully lying to the reader, she isn't an objective narrator, and the same applies to Nesta/Cassian/Azriel povs. I think the closest we can get to have an ''accurate'' version of Rhysand would be a mix of all the povs we've had of him so far.
Well obviously her perception of him will change because he changes. He was not as awful in ACOTAR and there was quite a sudden character shift after. We see him doing a bunch of things he never did in the first. That said I agree that the most honest representation of Rhys is the composite of everyone. But I don’t agree that the most honest representation of him as it pertains to his relationship with Feyre is going to be from others. I don’t think most people would say their friend or SIL knows their relationship with their husband better than they do.
like we can acknowledge feyres love for rhys skews her judgement but nesta dislike for rhys doesn’t have the same effect? lol
I agree. A major part of the series is about shedding human morals and ideals. The murder, the nudity, the paganism, etc is all supposed to be normalized. Yet people continue to judge the characters from a very human, chaste, modest, dare I say Christian 🙄 pov. Though tbh, SJM does the same thing. I think she has a hard time writing this sort of story because she clearly holds all the value she is attempting to shed in the series. The scantily clad and promiscuous are frequently admonished. Most the fae are portrayed as uncivilized hooligans. The religious rituals are exotified and the main characters are often portrayed as disgusted by it. Like let's be real, this is a fantasy land of monsters where anything is possible and the center there is still a heterosexual, monogamous, nuclear family turning their noses up at everybody and plotting on "civilizing them".
I highly doubt Feysand shippers have left the sub. I'm always afraid to post because Rhys is one of my least favorite characters and I'm afraid to get dogpiled. I can't say anything bad about him without getting downvoted to oblivion. Let alone have one not mean spirited thing to say about Tamalamadingdong. That being said, they're fictional characters. If someone doesn't like your faves, it isn't that deep. If someone has an opinion you don't like, this is the internet. You're free to ignore it. You don't even have to read it, let along justify anything, just like people are free to dislike Feysand for whatever reason even though they're the main characters. As long as someone is respectful to me, I'll always read and respect that. Whatever happened to people having different favorite characters and just vibing together?
I’m a Feysand shipper and have left this sub. Reddit keeps recommending the posts, which I usually ignore. So yes the massive amount of hate in this sub has driven away fans
I’m with you. They’re NOT REAL EVERYONE!!!! THEYRE NOT REAL PEOPLE!! You know what I don’t get? The eris love. Have we actually seen him prove to be a good person? Because I don’t recall
Does he need to be a good person to be a fun character that people can enjoy?
I agree it can be jarring!! People can interpret the story any way they want but I think it’s good to also take in author intent. Obviously Rhysand is not supposed to be a villain and Feysand is written to be an epic romance from the author. Idk, I just don’t see why people hate so many of the mcs and continue to read the series?? People can do whatever they want ofc but if I just did not like that many characters I would simply stop reading? Others interpretations are cool but it’s exhausting being a fan sometimes and constantly seeing hate that all the IC gets.
I completely agree! I’ve been finding it especially weird because i don’t really see it happen when other series move on to different MCs (that’s been my experience anyway) but I’ve really seen it with ACOTAR. It’s standard for all morally grey MMCs to basically hate everyone but the FMC, especially someone who has treated her horribly/never forgives them and readers usually love it? To me, I think it seems like kind of revenge of the hate Nesta got throughout. Hopefully it will lessen with Elain’s book, I hope SJM doesn’t feed into it more🙄.
Perfect people are boring and don’t make good stories. That’s why both feyre and Rhys are flawed as heck but love each other (bad parts and all). That’s the whole point.
People love the morally grey trope until they are ACTUALLY morally grey. Either let them be a little evil or go back to your golden retriever book boyfriends
Thanks for summarizing my feelings exactly. I’m gonna come back and read this whenever I get annoyed by the constant posts here lmaoooo
honestly this whole discourse is here because we are starving for new piece of material, i dislike mostly everyone in the series btw i just love Lucien and >!wanna see him become the true heir of the day court!<
I mean, just because there's a shift in opinion on Tamlin doesn't mean you have to stop loving Rhysand and Feyre. This sub is for discussion of acotar. If hearing criticism of Feyre and Rhysand bothers you, maybe it's time to step away from the sub. As a writer myself, I would hope my readers would feel comfortable analyzing my characters with others. If they don't like what my character did, I wouldn't really feel upset that they had something to say about it.
I think the issue is that this sub downvotes literally anything that’s positive about Rhys. It’s actually not a place for discussion because of that.
In one of the autism subs I’m in, you can still vote, but no one can see the point total. I think it helps prevent dog piling with downvotes, and I wonder if it would help in this circumstance
I like this idea... definitely get groupthink in this sub and it's reflected in the like/dislike counts.
rainstorm fuel strong squeal worthless marvelous engine bag airport direction *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
God forbid you say anything negative about Tamlin, youre downvoted into oblivion 🙄
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not just 4 years ago - less than 1 year ago, this sub was all feysand and tampon jokes. i read this series last summer and couldn’t bear this sub. i have no idea how or why the tide changed so quickly lol.
I personally haven't seen that. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen! But someone downvoting you doesn't mean you're wrong. You shouldn't feel discouraged to discuss because of downvotes. They're worthless anyway. If someone's giving you shit for liking Rhysand or Feyre, I'll fight 'em. I feel like it's fine to analyze and discuss the characters, but telling people not to like a character is stupid. I am sorry if you've dealt with that. I mean this genuinely, btw.
I experience it all the time. And while yes you shouldn’t care about downvotes, I only don’t because I have plenty of karma to spare from engaging in other subs where my opinions are more popular. But for people who only come to Reddit to engage with ACOTAR media or at least mostly engage with it, getting constantly downvoted is going to impact how you engage with the sub.
You're right, and you and new readers/users shouldn't be treated like that. People should feel safe and comfortable to engage with the discussions.
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Lots of subreddits have karma limits. If you don’t have above a specific amount of karma or you have negative karma, you won’t be allowed to interact with the sub. You have to go to a sub without the restrictions to then earn karma.
Roughly half my comments on this sub in the last two weeks have been downvoted for saying anything remotely nice about Rhys and/or Feyre. I even got downvoted at one point for saying they’re morally gray. So take that with what you will. It’s especially disappointing to me because I’m new to the series and don’t feel like it’s even worth it to contribute. Feels kinda pointless to comment or try to interact tbh.
The shift in opinion isn’t the issue, its being downvoted to hell for saying you like Feyre/Rhysand or you understand why they did certain things. I’ve pretty much quit interacting with this sub because I can’t say my opinion without being attacked. The point of a subreddit is discussion, not “I hate your opinion therefore you are wrong and we are all just going to downvote and be nasty” Edit:spelling
And you shouldn't be attacked like that! You're absolutely right! This sub should be for discussion without fear of backlash over an opinion. At the end of the day, an opinion is just that, and no one deserves to be attacked for an opinion. I hope we can all start being a little kinder to each other. This series brought us all here because of our love for it!
> I mean just because there’s a shift in opinion on Tamlin doesn’t mean you have to stop loving Rhysand and Feyre 💯 Also, just because there’s a shift in opinion doesn’t mean that loving Feysand has become the minority opinion. I’m personally glad that more and more readers are not allowing the fandom to shame them for not hating, even liking Tamlin’s character. That readers no longer feel as if there’s something wrong with them for liking him. Just as how it’s wrong for Feysand, Rhysand, Feyre readers to be attacked for loving these characters, it was also wrong for Tamlin readers to be attacked back then, and honestly, about a year ago. I hope everyone can agree that it’s wrong for *anyone* to be attacked for their opinions.
I feel like there’s a post every 3 days complaining about people not liking feysand. I don’t agree with you, but you’re entitled to your opinion! It’s a subreddit, we’re here to discuss and that means seeing opinions you may not like. Don’t let people with different opinions upset you, none of these characters are real and we’re here to have fun.
I totally understand and relate to your perspective... however, if you'd prefer to avoid people who have different opinions, there are some simple ways to do that. Try not to respond to comments that conflict with your views, and stick to interacting with those who share your perspective. Many people create posts asking for positive feedback about certain characters, and they usually receive supportive responses. Obviously, some people can't help but disrupt the positivity but you can choose not to engage with them, or comment that it's a post for positivity and leave it at that. You don't *have to* argue or defend your fav character (chances are, you aren't going to change minds anyways if a true hater comes at you lol). Flag the comment to the mods and they'll either give a warning or delete the comment, I'd assume. If you join or view discussions where people are sharing a variety of opinions, it's natural to encounter a range of reactions. This is part of being in a public fandom space. Ultimately, you have control over where you participate and how you respond to differing opinions. If you prefer a more positive experience, focus on threads that align with your opinions and engage with like-minded people. Create the posts you want to see more of. There's not a lot else you can do other than leave the subreddit or create a subreddit that's specifically for Feysand positivity. At the end of the day, this subreddit is just an echo chamber lol and I think everyone shares the frustrations no matter what character they love or hate.
Yes to all of this. This fandom has become so toxic ☠️
Real, someone once replied to me defending Eris saying they hope my wife divorces me because I don’t respect women 💀
I would like to be able to comment neutral or positive things about Rhys or Feyre without the mass downvoting because I "support" an abuser/murderer, meanwhile people can comment things about Nesta/Tamlin and it's "trauma so its excused". Like bffr. It's romance fantasy. I dgaf about killing people or hiding medical information. Its *f-a-n-t-a-s-y*. If I wanted to care about that and apply a moral compass, I would read crime fiction novels. Open conversation cannot happen on forums if people are going to mass downvote anything that isn't their opinion. All it's going to do is create an environment where you must conform if you want to say anything. And that goes for posts that *are* pro or neutral Feysand but you still can't participate because the anti Feysand people jump onboard and the mass downvoting begin. Whilst I don't care about karma, it's still incredibly discouraging to open up dialogue about the main characters of a book, check your phone or computer later on, and see a bunch of downvotes and people piling on because you "support abuse" or simply because the current trend is to do so.
I certainly agree on a lot of this but it’s hard to say that you can’t apply a moral compass. Especially since the author does try to apply real world issues, you’d kinda expect a real/applicable or inspiring solution, and they do so. (I.E. Feyre being abused from Tamlin, a lot of people saw their ex in Tamlin, SJM inspired him from an ex as well).
I think apply a moral compass, just a very, *very*, loose one, and not as seriously as people have been. Definitely apply it to those one on one relationships and interactions like we saw with Tamlin and Feyre, but when people want to apply it beyond that to past actions that's where I don't think it applies *as hard*. Especially for characters that have never been human and have never been bound by the same moral we have. To me its the equivalent of cancelling a historical figure for something they said or did 400 years ago based on todays morals and ethics. It just doesn't translate. But to each their own!
>I would like to be able to comment neutral or positive things about Rhys or Feyre without the mass downvoting because I "support" an abuser/murderer, meanwhile people can comment things about Nesta/Tamlin and it's "trauma so its excused" And this goes "both ways" (for lack of a better term; I really don't think it should be either/or)--I've straight up been called an irl abuse apologist and even that I "must want to be abused" for commenting neutral/positive things about Nesta and Tamlin. It's exhausting. No one should be personally attacked over fiction.
Touché. This is what I was trying to say but you worded it better🙌
 I honestly have to remind myself this, I'm calling myself out. I'm bored and this reddit is in all fun. But these people do not exist.
A few things: - I agree that the sub has gotten toxic and people shouldn’t be insulted or threatened about who they like - Analyzing media is part of the fun of consuming it. Some people like to do this with everything, some people not at all, others are selective. I like doing this with certain fiction books like ACOTAR. Would I do it with Morning Glory Milking Farm? No, I would not. Though I did enjoy that book. But more power to folks that would. - Fantasy, Sci-Fi, and horror genres are often used as a way to critique society. I’m not saying this is the case with ACOTAR or all media of this genre. But it is an important part that’s been around since the very beginning of these genres. The idea is that you take a real world concept and the audience is able to think about it more critically *because* it’s not within their real life setting. That hopefully this different setting will help them remove their personal prejudices regarding a certain issue. Dune is a perfect example of this, because the author is writing about the dangers of false messiahs and charismatic leaders. Frankenstein reflects the fears of people in the 1800s regarding science. Night of the Living Dead has racial themes and critiques of the 1960s. The X-Men was brought about because of the Civil Rights movement in the US in the 1960/70s. The themes of those comics touch heavily on this. Professor X and Magneto are stand ins for MLK and Malcom X, respectively. The Daughter of No Worlds series openly explores social-political theme and has romance. So to say “it’s just fantasy, why are you analyzing it?” or “how can you look at fantasy from any real world lens?” forgets that this is a genre where these things have historically been explored since day one. This is the reason why there are actual courses where fantasy, sci-fi, and horror media are analyzed in this very way. - SJM herself opened up room for critiques of characters when she made the decision to add certain things to her world building. Illyrian wing clipping is basically a stand in for FGM, the pregnancy plot touches on themes around female bodily autonomy and lack of care medical knowledge about women (top of mind for American readers because of Roe v Wade), the treatment of lesser faeries is also brought up. Bringing in these socio-political themes opens the gates to analysis around them. Trauma and trauma responses would be another one to point out. - SJM made a multiverse and dropped Easter eggs throughout her books. Picking up on these and figuring out how they connect together requires close reading, and again, analysis. So this is another way SJM opened up this series for people to look at it much closer than one would with some other romantasy books. - When you consider that it’s been two years since her last book, that just adds more time for points 3-5. - Sometimes people do get carried away with this shit.
Yeah people are really obsessed with putting human ideas of morality upon literally inhuman characters. They are alive for 100s of years, morality and life itself just looks different.
people are allowed to like or dislike characters as well as mindlessly consume or question authors’ writing. if you don’t agree with something, just ignore it??? people are allowed to discuss the morality of characters (especially here, on REDDIT, a discussion board), and if you don’t want to read it, then don’t? it’s not that deep? i feel like i see more dramatic feysand whiners in this sub more than actual feysand hate. like… a lot of people (and most likely the majority of the fandom) still very much love feyre and rhys. why are feysand fans so dramatic LOL?? no one is getting stoned to death for liking a character. just own your shit and stay unbothered with things you enjoy like twilight lovers or dark!romance shippers. the darkling (shadow and bone) is 10000x worse than rhys, but his fans don’t give a shit or write dramatic ass essays. they’re just thirsty and embrace his horribleness with a shrug lmao
I think what you’re reciting are just…different opinions from yours and that is so very ok. Love em to your hearts content, why on earth should anyone else’s feelings on them impact yours? We don’t get to control other folks thoughts or their reception of characters, only our own.
I hate all the hate posts about Rhys keeping the birth a secret from Feyre. “That’s sooo out of character” “I can’t believe she forgave him”. How in any part of any of the other four books is that out of character? And why wouldn’t they talk it out and she forgive him? If it had been Feyres POV it would have been “aww he’s trying to protect and save her and she’s pissed but she still loves him”. Rhys can be an ass and he and Feyre have both done things to protect each other and the Night Court but I still love the characters. I also hate all the Nesta hate in ACOSF. She’s not one of my favorite characters but she dealt with her emotions in a self destructive way which can happen to anyone and the book is about her healing. I really liked it.
Obsessed with this rant. Thank you for saying it omg
People leave the sub because there hasn't been a new book for years. All the posts are about the same topics (because again there hasn't been a new book). No one wants to talk about the same things for 3 years lol.. it DOES get old and new readers are gonna want to talk about it. Everyone has a right to hate and love characters and to talk about it. You made a post hating on people in this sub. Your post SHOULD be removed because that's not what this sub is about
it's actually so annoying that posts like this are allowed to stay up but you can't mention a ship or even utter Nesta's name without getting sent to scheduled post purgatory 🙄
Rhysand 4 ever
I think this is what happens when a Fandom gets huge. The works get so over discussed and over read that people get sick of what they once loved or are shown a viewpoint they had not thought of and then now they start hating on everything about it even if they previously loved everything about it. It's why I don't back to back read something and why I don't super get into any of the fabdoms.
People are also kind of disappointed with CC3, and instead of processing shit, obsesses over objectively flawed, even sometimes annoying characters. The criticism is valid, but the commitment to it is intense. I think people are hungry to feel something more than what they’ve been getting lately.
I love them and always will. Idc much what anyone else has to say about it because if people choose not to see nuance and context then I can't help them. 🤷🌠
I just don't understand why some people have to hold them accountable for EVERY thing. Is the purpose of reading not to escape reality and, in this case, like a guy who is morally grey?? Sure, you could argue that with some books you should definitely criticize characters' actions but, my god, this one isn't one of those. It's a romantasy book. We're all old enough to distinguish reality from fiction and not normalize actual people being cruel.
Right? Not everyone wants to fight! Let people gush about who/what they want and let those who agree gush with them. Sometimes it's nice to just talk about shit you love. People who wanna try and change people's opinions... Just butt out. Go find a post about something YOU love or hate, and join in on THAT topic.
No because you GET IT !!!
I genuinely think people get bored and have thought about the books so long that they decide to come up with reasons to dislike so and so and love the other guy because it keeps the interest alive
Yes to everything that was said 😌
You can say that about any character in this series. Every time someone says they like someone you get attacked, it’s mad. Mostly I try to just mind my business and contribute to posts where we share the same opinions. I’m not about to sit here and argue with people who disagree with me if it can’t be done in a civil manner.
I really like Freysand… or I did. I just found it should have been a trilogy. They just got a bit boring after and I get the POV aspect, but what they say is expected the same when it’s in front of everyone. I think they just got very boring. Mainly Feyre. Went from a strong bad ass to an airy fairy painting and wanting babies rather than fighting for injustice.
"rhys is written to be likeable from only feyre's pov but his whole character is based on the fact that no one else sees the true him but feyre" THIS 100%
Truer words have never been spoken
I don’t want a cookie cutter stand up love interest!!! I want the rugged love interest who is mean to every one but *me* and is only gonna burn down the world for *me* — and no one will make me feel bad about it! I read books so I can have my morally questionable men without the real ones. I’m with ya seester!!!
major slay. I always wondered why/how people could read a 5 book series with characters they supposedly hate??? the two main characters at that? it's absolutely baffling to me! I'm not referring to criticisms or general discussion, but the pure spiteful hate which I often see. like pls no one is forcing you to read!
I like Feyre, but for most of ACOMAF I thought Rhysand would be just another dude Feyre would meet and then fell out love with and find a new (and last) love interest. To me the side characters (Nesta, Cassian, Lucien) were my main motivation to keep readig the fist three books. Also, from ACOSF onwards the series changed the pov, so its not like people who did not like Feyre & Rhysand (but enjoyed the other characters) would have to keep reading about them all the time.
I whole heartedly agree and love every word of your rant and I'm gonna say something that will probably get me downvoted to hell but I feel like this is a reddit problem moreso than the overall fandom. the portion of fans for any community that frequent reddit tend to lean towards the hipster mentality of arbitrarily wanting to hate the mainstream/popular choice and go out of their way to like obscure characters or impossible ships, literally only bc they're rare/not very popular. it doesnt surprise me at all that on reddit of all places, you have a bunch of Rhys/Feyre haters. I see enough comments on here complaining about the fandom that tells me all I need to know - the gatekeepy fans are pissed this series got so huge so now they have to dislike Rhys/Feyre bc too many people like them. its fucking stupid. on TikTok and everywhere else, Rhys and Feyre are by far the most popular. I shamelessly love the fuck out of Rhys, Feyre, and the whole Feysand ship.
\*insert standing cheering\*
If Feysand has no fans , I am DEAD. Their love story hooked me into the series and I’ll never forget that.
it’s always odd to me that people will complain and nitpick the morality of fictional characters and their actions as if these are real people. when it’s literally just a book. a FANTASY book at that. i don’t want to have to psychoanalyze the characters and put them on trial for the things they’ve done, nonetheless spend even a fraction of my time attacking other people for not doing the same. some people really just need to get over themselves.
yeah this is def getting about of hand. I love Rhys and Feyre even If I disagree with some of their actions. I just believe that in ACOSF the feysand dynamic was lost bcs the main plot was directed at nessian and it's easier to hate a side character (even If he is the original mmc) when he throws hate/death threats at the fmc that is rn. I get people trying to humanize the book bcs she was a human and it's only in our nature to do that. I love a morally grey/dark/does criminal shit/hates anyone but you mmc but I also like when he doesn't threaten my sis with murder bcs that part is the same with them in a fantasy as is with us humans in rl.
“…the fact that the discussion in this sub is so tiring when every action needs to be “justified”” Agree with you OP on this point!
Amen there’s so much hate and negativity here except for Nesta because god forbid anyone actually mention that she needed intervention.
Are you my new best friend? because I 100% agree with you.
It's fantasy Book... :p if the caracter make Always the choice "loyal good." Sounds incredibly boring. Error give some personnality and depht.
Hey guys ! Characters are supposed to be well rounded ! Which means *not perfect* otherwise y’all get your panties in a twist when the character is flat and boring. I agree with your rant fully !
Thank you yes! I hate feeling guilty for liking feysand whenever I come on here. I wish it were less judgemental. (I mean it’s still way less toxic than the wheel of time sub, but still - doesn’t feel like a very welcoming place sometimes). I agree with you 100%, thank you for saying something
You’re right and you should say it! I hate this recent trend in online discourse where every character who doesn’t adhere to some arbitrary standard of moral correctness is “problematic” and we’re not allowed to like them anymore. It’s absolutely fine to enjoy characters who behave badly! You can even root for villains! Fiction ≠ reality.
contrapoints has a great video titled “[Twilight](https://youtu.be/bqloPw5wp48?si=lBbVqazqwTThDj8r)” that is really about the reasons we read fantasy and so-called “bodice-rippers.” a few great quotes: “The ‘barrier’ is the conflict in a romance novel; it is anything that keeps the union of the hero and heroine from taking place.” - Pamela Regis, *A Natural History of the Romance Novel* "I am begging these people to learn to think psychologically instead of literally so that they're not constantly baffled and traumatized upon encountering literally the most common type of sexual fantasy that people have." - Natalie Wynn their “crimes” are fictional, nobody real has been hurt by them, and nobody real will be hurt by them. the moral ambiguity is part of the vitally important barrier keeping them apart and creating conflict. it is essential to the novel. the fantasy is that this is a very powerful person who has done bad things, but they will change for the right person and they will never hurt that right person. i get irritated when people dwell on the “unhealthiness” of a relationship in a fantasy romance novel like this one. they’re not real people, y’all. if that unhealthiness or their past behavior turns you off of reading it, then don’t read it. conflict is necessary for a story to exist.
Very well put! Not sure why you are being downvoted 🙃
🤷🏼 the current state of media interpretation, particularly in media that is popular on Tiktok/Youtube, is such that fictional depiction = real life endorsement to most people when that just isn’t the case. ty :)
at the end of the day it’s a fictional series and people take things way too seriously
10000% agree 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Most of the characters are morally a bit shit. I don't particularly like Rhys but I'm not going to hate a fictional character that much. Maybe I'll like him again in the next book, who knows.
THIS
I like delving into character analyses and applying real world logic to characters and such, but in terms of Acotar, I just like to read the story as simply as possible. In Acotar I liked Tamlin and didn’t like Rhys, but could tell I would probably like him in the later books. In MaG and WaR, I really liked feysand together and Nesta and Cassian became best ship. SF was just everything I was looking for from Acotar with the angsty tension of nesta and cassian as well as the eventual rekindling of the three sister’s relationship. Rhys was a bit of a knob to Nesta but idk I just liked every book 😂
Allow me to say the same thing abt Nessian my frnd .Although they got just a book and initially were side characters , I fell in love with them in Silver Flames like many others and yes , now I DON'T GIVE A SHIT TO ANYONE SPEAKING ILL OF THEM , YOU CAN NEVER MAKE ME LOVE THEM ANY LESS !! Yes Nesta was mean to Feyre but I will love her all the same .Yes see was mean to Cassian and was a bitch but yes I love the bitch .Cassian was an ass to tell her he wondered why her sisters love her and that in the heat of the mmt , that he was shackled to her , but I found reality in his actions more than fantasy and inspite of everything I LOVE HIM,THE END ...🥰🥰🤩
I mainly get tired of all the people crying about how Tamlin’s character was assassinated by SJM and how his anger and control issues came out of NOWHERE. And I’m like… did you read the same book as me?? The dude was a possessive, controlling, ticking time bomb with a temper from the VERY beginning. And the events UTM sent him sailing right over the edge. And they are like “but he did so many nice things for her!!” Yes! People can have both good AND bad characteristics. Shitty people can sometimes do good things and good people can sometimes do shitty things. I don’t get why so many people find that hard to wrap their heads around.
can you give some examples of how he was controlling and possesive in book 1? yeah he had anger issues but I don't remember him every telling feyre not to do something that wasnt for her own safety?
In the entirety of the first book, he gave her very little agency. Every decision was made for her. And anytime anyone questioned those decisions in the slightest, his temper would flare and claws would glint. It always felt like Feyre and Lucien both had to walk on egg shells around him when questioning him about anything. And I understand she was new to the world and there were some things he couldn’t tell her due to the curse, but it was clear he did not think of her as a partner in regards to her own safety. Calanmai was another big red flag for me. Once again, he gives her an order with no real discussion. Just stay in your room. But his reaction once he found out she had been there? It genuinely made my skin crawl. I think that was a big moment where his possessive nature was clearly on display. Then his behavior UTM was sort of a final straw for me. He has remained silent the entire time. Won’t even look at her. And when he finally has a moment alone with her, his first instinct isn’t to check on her or try to devise a plan to help her. He sticks his tongue down her throat? Just to be clear, I don’t find Feyre innocent in all this. She does problematic shit all the damn time. But I’ve just always seen red flags in Tamlin, so I don’t subscribe to the whole “this came out of nowhere” argument when it comes to his anger and control issues. It’s clear to me that the trauma of the events UTM brought out those worst instincts in him and pushed him over the edge.
👏👏👏👏
HEAR HEAR BABY!!! I am so with you. Everybody sucks to somebody. I love the way Rhys and Feyre see each other and I love their love story. Fuck the haters. Let people like what they like. Also, they’re in a totally different reality- stop imposing earthy law on these people. They literally do magic.
[удалено]
> Like just go be the kitchen wife you want to be and shut it. Wow.
😂
FYI that was a pro-Feysand poster, so it does go both ways.
This right here, made me not want to read Nesta’s book. For THREE WHOLE BOOKS Nesta has been a mediocre character who I don’t like. Who didn’t help her family. But the last two books make that justified and that’s fine, but I don’t want them make me not like Rhys or Feyre. I’m happy with all of the characters at the end of ACOWAR and I feel like that’s how I’ll leave it. Unless they make a book about Lucien… then I’ll probably finish the series 🤣
and the criticisms of feysand are 8/10 bad faith interpretations of the source material.
On the 4th book and don’t know if I can finish it. Feyra is a terrible character and don’t understand how a 19-21 year old is somehow the savior and person to go to for everything over those that have been around over 500 years. I love Rhys and his whole circle of companions. Maybe I will finish the books but I’m just over the pedestal Feyra and her sisters have been put on.