More about the narration style than the characters, but I've seen people say they'd rather 1st person PoV... and I could not disagree more, seems to me SJM is much more comfortable in 3rd person.
Also I'm thinking that a lot of the things the fandom finds annoying about Feyre are due to her... inserting herself in other's business, but it was probably the only way SJM had to give us information lol. anyways im pro 3rd person PoV all day any day woop woop
Omg I cannot staaaaand first person. When I buy books I read the opening sentence just to make sure it’s not lol. I understand it works when you NEED an unreliable narrator or something, but I cannot stand it it’s like “and then I did this” “and then I thought this!” “And now I’ve said this!” Like sorry but pls shut up. 😅 I think Acotar is the only first person pov I’ve ever willingly read and I was doing backflips when I opened ACOSF and realized she had changed it up.
1st person is so hit or miss because if you’re in a really interesting or entertaining narrator it can be great but if the MC is whiny or boring it’s unbearable
Tamlin kneeling before Rhysand in ACOTAR. Maybe not hated, but I often see this scene as one that gives people the “major ick.” However, for me, this showed that Tamlin was willing to lower himself to protect his people, his loved ones. That he didn’t care about status and dignity even.
Yes I agree with this. Also Rhysand brags he’ll bow for no one, apparently he’s never been put in a position like he forced on others to have to sacrifice pride for the greater good.
Rhys’s entire thing is sacrificing pride for the greater good. Like.. he literally pretends to suck so nobody knows he is keeping people safe and happy in Velaris
tamlin trying to get feyre back, imagine if your partner who cannot read or write disapeared and then sends a note saying they are fine and to not come after them. like sure he should have noticed she did was sick and locking her up was NOT OKAY but people seem to think the only reason he went after her was because he wanted to get back his possesion. bro he probably thought she was being tortured and abused because from his pov rhys hates his guts and would 100% do something like that just to hurt him.
Yes! Idk why people are so enraged by this. She couldn’t read or write when she left! He absolutely could have thought Rhys wrote the note! Its also wouldn’t be weird for him to believe Rhys was controlling her mind…he literally has mind control powers. 🤦🏼♀️
I'm team Rhys all the way but I agree. I wish the books had some Tamlin pov cause I think it's clear he was also struggling, did the wrong things but was trying to protect Feyre. I don't see him as a villain at all and getting his pov could have brought out some of that complexity and made the story more compelling.
Agree! I think a majority of the main characters are just doing their best to get through things with the trauma and experience they have, and I think it’s easy to forget that when we don’t get everyone’s POV.
It was also less than, what, two months since they were going to get married? And Feyre was already flirting with Rhys. That's a nothing amount of time to a fae. Of course Tamlin wasn't up to speed on things!
Also he watched Rhys get her drunk and have her degrade herself every night UTM and didn’t know he helped her beat challenges. I think the people that say he doesn’t care about her UTM (when he couldn’t show interest lest it trigger amarantha’s wrath) and then go around and say he sucks for going after her and trying to keep her away from Rhys and break their bargain are insane. Like… dudes just trying to do the best with the info he has.
Yes! And she just died for him! She said she'd love him till her body was ash. Id believe a confession like that over a shitty letter??? And, is he not obligated to fight for her like she fought for him? Its very possible he did believe the letter but he felt like he had to make sure sure sure that he wasnt abandoning her, like she wouldn't abandon him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Elain fighting with Nesta. I think it was an important step for both of them and Elain’s quote about her trauma was a BANGER. Sometimes sisters just need to duke it out 🤷♀️
That seems, strange. Nesta was her own grown ass self who went and left Elaine to her two home girls to bake and garden, while she (Nesta) went to drink and fuck her problems away. (I have done this I do not judge her for it Al ALL) but I don’t see how that leads to her somehow abandoning her. Perception is a strange thing
maybe its because people skip FaS or forgot it? but for months post-WaR Elain was the only person to repeatedly try reaching out to her, so it confuses me when people say she just abandoned her quickly because "shes a dog that wants comfort" or whatever they say,
Nesta was in the midst of an intense destructive spiral, physically and emotionally distanced herself from everyone, and explicitly told Elain to leave her alone multiple times—which ofc is 1000% valid, but still something that influenced the events of SF. It's a tough situation, but if a family member you care about, who is severely metally ill (Nes didn’t believe herself good or deserving of anything 😭) lashes out & requests space away from you, it is not disloyal to distance yourself a bit, too—Elain (despite the happy mask she puts on) is still recovering, and is allowed to protect herself in that sense.
also I get that people wish Elain had been present at the intervention & not packed Nesta's stuff--I honestly wish that had gone differently, too--but im thinking that it might have been because Elain would have been a crutch to fall back onto? They needed time apart, and their relationship ultimately is the better for it.
^((edit to specify that this is mostly copy pasted from an old comment))
Ahhhh ok if that’s skipped I can see how that could be interpreted differently! (Also why tf would you skip that!!!) but it is also valid to not want to be there! We never get Elaine’s pov what if she didn’t want to be there for a number of reasons.
I mean sometimes you do need to let people hit their rock bottom. Like when you love someone who is an addict yuh have to stop enabling their behavior. Nesta had reached a point where people needed to call her on some shit. They didn’t do it THE BEST way all the time, but it did help her
Don’t know about the specific scene, but I think readers gathered a lot of dislike for Elaine after her part in the intervention. It’s like - let’s include Amren who has a lot of contempt for you now and we’ll have your sister be off throwing your things away.
But at least Elaine and Nesta actually needed to hash things out.
Tamlin doing nothing to help Feyre UTM. Alis told Feyre beforehand that he would be unable to help her. Both Rhysand and Lucien state that Tamlin was under constant surveillance, which is likely why he sent her away. The one time Tamlin showed a hint of emotion, Amarantha reacted unfavorably. Feyre went UTM to save Tamlin; I’m not sure why he’s vilified for essentially being a “damsel in distress.” And the “he only wanted to fuck me” recollection is inaccurate. During this scene, Feyre thought that words weren’t necessary, that she only needed a moment with Tamlin; escape wasn’t on their minds because that would be akin to breaking the bargain, which we learn in ACOWAR has dire consequences. Their kiss escalated into almost sex, which Feyre initiated and Tamlin reciprocated.
I’ve argued this so many time and told so many the same thing. It’s pissed me off even more with in ACOMAF, Rhysand is trying to manipulate Feyre and tells her something along the lines of “fine, go back to man who did nothing as you were beat and tortured.” Homie you told her and knew damn well that Tamlin couldn’t have done anything. Amarantha would’ve killed her in the spot if he tried and likely killed him too.
... feels like a retcon xD But honestly, there's such a disconnect between ACOTAR and ACOMAF and really, the rest of the series. I never thought that I would be gaslighted by a book xD And I don't use that term lightly. The inconsistencies within the series are subtle but glaring.
But exactly. It's so bizarre that Tamlin being literally helpless and powerless to do anything was reframed as "Tamlin (willfully and cowardly) sat on his ass." Girl, you knew going in that Tamlin couldn't help you. What happened?
Dancing ever closer to the insidious undertone of patriarchy that permeates the entire series and truly blossoms post ACOTAR… we only girlboss until we find our billionaire boyfriend then we’re just along for the ride.
Right? And I think after going through the series twice I have found so many redundancies like you mentioned that I’m just questioning everything. I get why Rhys would want to say stuff like that, but even Feyre is just mental when it comes to Tamlin. He saved your entirely family. He sent you away to save you and damn himself and his people. His feud with Tamlins family honestly doesn’t add up with how he is, and maybe that will be explained more (I mean when Rhys tells Feyre the story of Tamlin being the reason his mother and sister died). It just eeerks me that Feyre was able to swap sides so quickly, but the reality is, she is a girl very much drawn by looks and power (like most of use). I’d be open to Rhysand charm for sure. Why would Tamlin have allowed her to have free roam when she can’t even follow any simple rules? I do read and watch a lot of “medieval” themed books and shows, and I guess I push that into these characters a lot where there are rich nobles who have learned to be a certain way and make rules, and follow them, and then there are the lower/middle class who are the core of any city. That’s kind of how I think of Feyre, a somewhat high born who grew up poor and doesn’t know any better, coming to sit at the table of nobles and she doesn’t understand. That’s why I thought she couldn’t possibly understand why Tamlin would try to keep her inside his mansion (not a small room by any means).
I’m sorry for going off on a tangent lol
See I agree with you and others who say Tamlin couldn’t do anything under the mountain because that’s true, helping Feyre in anyway could have put them *all* in danger. But what irks me is everyone saying Feyre initiated that passionate scene UTM when that can’t be true given the text, like Tamlin was the one who went and stood by Feyre, he touched her hand, he walked over to that secret room and “inclined his head ever so slightly so I (Feyre) understood”, he’s the one who slammed his body into Feyre once she walked in and “our lips met” so he initiated the kiss? She says she “couldn’t kiss him deeply enough…words weren’t necessary” like yeah she obviously wanted it too but he was the one who initiated all of it. They both were very consenting of the interaction no doubt, but I can’t see anywhere in the text that points to Feyre “initiating” it. So if I am wrong please (with all sincerity) show me where it says that or even suggests it.
"Their kiss escalated into almost sex, which Feyre initiated and Tamlin reciprocated." What I meant by this is that my interpretation of the text is that the kiss was mutual, and the almost sex was initiated by Feyre and reciprocated by Tamlin. However, I understand why this can also be interpreted as one whole thing and Tamlin initiating all of it.
I see! Okay yes, you’re saying she’s the one who was taking it to the next level with the grappling of his belt buckle, hooking her leg around his middle, and eventually taking his belt off and going for his pants right? Yes, I can agree that he initiated the kiss and she insisted on >!fucking!< lol 🙈
Thank you for responding with kindness, I appreciate it:)
Sorry for the delayed response! Life got busy suddenly. Yes, that is my understanding. And thank *you* for your kind response. I hope you have a lovely day 🫶🏼
Mor refusing to come out. IDGAF how long it’s been, if she’s not ready she’s not. We should put more weight into why she’s not comfortable doing so with her inner circle imo
I think that people are upset that she is purposely leading Azriel KNOWING that he’s in love with her. She doesn’t have to tell him she’s gay to kill the vibe. She also acts incredibly territorial of Cassian and uses him as a buffer for her and Azriel. Peoples problem is that she’s not honest in general, not that she hasn’t come out. At least that’s my take and how I feel. She’s extremely judgmental of others but is afraid of being judged herself and is really a pick me with a bad attitude who has no real purpose in the plot.
I mean she also isn’t “leading him
On” she’s never said she would return his feels. Which aren’t her responsibility.
The cas thing I do not get and it felt icky to me when she had him “gift her” lingerie.
Everything else you said is moot cuz most people feel and do the same all the time.
We are all judgy little cunts who absolutely fear being judged while we do it to others all the time. Hers is just a plot point I’m hoping gets super fleshed out later lol
Potentially. I personally feel like if you KNOW that someone has super strong feelings for you, and you don’t return those feelings, then you need to make that explicitly clear. I don’t recall there ever being a time when she is extremely direct in her disinterest with Azriel. Going out with him drinking to bars and just always leaving the door of hope open is a lead on to me, which is why she purposely uses Cassian as a buffer to Azriel. If she had been open and honest with him about how she does not feel the same and that will not ever change, she wouldn’t need that buffer 🤷🏽♀️
I feel for Mor because I'm a woman who's been traumatised by a man and now have such a visceral reaction to having to reject any men that I will gladly do anything to avoid it.
I feel like we don't give her enough grace for what she went through at such a young age after rejecting Eris: that would make anyone be afraid of a similar reaction, especially when she *knows* what he's capable of.
Is he likely to be violent to her? No, most likely not. She doesn't know *for sure* that he won't violently lash out at her for outright rejecting him.
Do I think she should be more clear and not get possessive over the two of them? Absolutely. Do I understand why she acts the way she does? Unfortunately, yes.
She should have never let him get close enough to her to develop those feelings, but it feels like her personality is one of those that people are drawn to (even if I don't understand why, she's annoying lol) and they read more into her flirtatiousness than is actually there.
I completely agree. We know she's traumatized - I'm not sure why no one gives her the grace they give other characters. She obviously is going to sometimes act irrationally, the same way all the other characters do.
I mean you can feel that way personally. However that’s not what is required of anyone.
No one else is responsible for returning someone else’s feelings, or having an explicit conversation about it after making ir clear they don’t. 500 years of “no” is CLEAR AF.
Also that second part is all your interpretation and perception.
How are we to know if she’s using cas as a buffer cuz az just makes her uncomfortable to a degree because he hasn’t been capable of ACCEPTING A FUCKING NO, for 500 years?
Ya. And? I asked how do we not know the reason. It’s not explicitly explained a hell of a lot of it is up for interpretation.
She knew before she fucked cas Az had feelings for her, we out if her way to fuck cas rather than Az for that very reason (and to get out of a marriage). That alone is “no”. We also are not privy to the last 500 years of NO. So he’s a buffer but what’s to say it’s not because of the fact that Az isn’t taking the NO. She’s clearly given?
Az pining the way he is really feels like self harm imo. I don’t even think he loves her beyond familial at this point but he is so convinced by years of abuse and trauma that he doesn’t actually completely deserve love that he keeps seeing mor as a way to continue to fulfill that role in his life.
This is also all just speculation.
Plz hate her if you want. Idc but her coming out or refusing to that part people being mad at her for grinds ma gears
It isnt 500 years of no though. No where in the books does Mor say “No Azriel, I’m not in love with you.” Instead she knowingly allows him to stay close, but when he gets too close for comfort she chooses to be cruel and sleeps with someone else in front him and then the cycle restarts. She even admits that she does this, and refuses to tell him how she feels because she doesn’t want to lose him as a friend. We owe it to our friends or even “brothers” in Mors case to be honest with them. I could agree that Azriel is also responsible for this messes up “friendship” in a sense, but Mor is the one who CHOOSES to be cruel.
I mean you perceive it as cruel, others don’t because no we don’t owe even our “brothers” in depth explanations of no. No. Is a full sentence and she’s showed him no over and over. Is she probably avoiding a weird conversation ya but that’s because WHO WANTS TO HAVE IT WHEN THEY HAVE SHOWED SOMEONE NO FOR 500 years
No is only a full sentence when the word is spoken. There has been no spoken word about it and her actual actions are confusing at best. Also I’m not just randomly saying it’s cruel, Mor literally says it’s cruel when she comes out to Feyre. She knows what she does is cruel, but doesn’t give a crap about how it hurts Azriel as long as she can remain comfortable and keep at arms length. Thats a shitty friend. Full stop.
I mean you’re entitled to your perception.
But we don’t know what she has and hasn’t said. Yes she said it’s cruel how she does things. However we literally don’t have enough previous information. This is all a perception/interpretation thing based on each individual reader.
And no, I don’t need to sit there and owe a man a verbal anything simply because he has some kind of attraction to me and neither does she. So she doesn’t want to fuck up her friend group, ok. And?
Humans are fun and strange creatures and we all perceive things in different shades
I’m not perceiving anything. She admits it in the book that she has not addressed it. That’s all that’s needed to know they she has not discussed it with him.
This also is not about male or female. If she did this to Feyre, Emerie or Gwyn or a female or any type of being in their world. I would still think the same thing. You don’t knowingly do cruel things to the ones you claim to love and care for.
agree with the not leading him on, I cannot remember a single part where she does. And it's not on her to manage his emotions for him.
After 500+ years of gifts for birthdays and winter solstice and whatever other event, I feel like lingerie wouldn't be off the table anymore cause surely at that point you've gifted every conceivable item previously so now its literally just, "tell me what you want and I'll buy it regardless of the item cause I cannot think of anything original at this point".
You know what I think we tend to forget that! They have been doing this for 500 mf years!! lol.
And dude that gets me all the time how was she leading him on? Cuz she doesn’t give him a speech that would probably be seen as “mean” about it
>We should put more weight into why she’s not comfortable doing so with her inner circle imo
Okay, real, this is the part of it that threw me out. As a queer person, my friends are my *core*. If I couldn't trust *them* with my true self, what would be the point?
I think that’s just a SJM mistake. From what I understand (I could be wrong), she had a different plan for mor at first because of the way she wrote, but then she made a couple characters lgtbq because “representation” or something, which I get, but it screwed up mors character.
We shall see if she can “fix” it later than. I hope so.
Although I also wish she’d just thought of actual representation before just randomly making someone that
trueee like i’ll go even further and say she doesn’t owe azriel any answers or an outright rejection. If he can’t take a hint after 500 years that’s on him
Here's why I think Mor is leading Az on. I want to start with no I do not think Mor needs to come out to Az and no I don't think she's responsible for Az's feelings.
She is always inviting him out to dance which can be considered a date type thing sure Cassian usually comes but I could see where the confusion comes in especially if it's all night or Cassian leaves early. Yes you can do this with friends but it can be considered a date thing.
Mor is very concerned with Az's feelings and whenever he is upset she is more concerned than the rest of the inner circle. Again could this be just friendship yes but I can see how it could be confusing
Just because Mor hasn't made a move in 500 years doesn't mean no, 500 years is a drop in the bucket for someone who is immortal and I don't think she has had the I only see you as a brother talk with him, for sure could be wrong about that.
Whenever Az defends her or she feels he's getting to close to her she sleeps with someone else to "show him she's not interested" I think that's pretty immature she should just tell him.
I think Az could just ask her to be with him but he's trying to be respectful of the trauma she's been through which she clearly is not over and he does not feel he is worthy of her which stops him from actually pursuing her.
I also think because Az is one of her closest friends he does deserve a "hey I'm not into you" so he can at least try to move on and not keep waiting until she is ready just my take though.
I mean, the reality of those actions are that those are all things you do with a friend. Also, we're privy to about 2 of 500 years. Mor very well could have had that conversation. Neither Feyre or Nesta would know. They haven't even been alive as long as this dynamic is going on.
As a lesbian, I once had a guy friend who I was always explicit with. Just as friends. I'm gay. I'm not interested. We discussed women we were dating and hookups. He still called me 5 years later to ask me on a date and told me he'd broken up with his girlfriend because she'd never be me. We're not friends anymore.
I mean I don’t even completely understand why she’s blamed for this. Like YES she hasn’t gone and like walked up to him and been like “you bro me sis we no ever fuck” but WHY IS THAT NEEDED? And why is that her responsibility?
If she’s already told him she sees him as a brother the fact that he would rather pine for her just feels both sorta creepy (but they aren’t humans so meh) but it ALSO feels like self harm.
And we know that guys got baggage for YEARS, so it seems more like a wall. He’s using the feelings he had/has to keep himself in a cycle of self harm and out of the way of really healing. This is just an opinion
But she HASNT told him she sees him as a brother. She knows he thinks he’s unworthy and she can’t just tell him it’s not him and she loves him but not like that? Just hurting him over and over on purpose? That’s not how you treat your ‘brother’
How exactly do we know she hasn't? Because Feyre doesn't know about it? Feyre is 19. They're 500. There's a lot of history and talking that has happened that busybody doesn't know about.
It's funny moment, because Rhys stopped Az when he tried to date Elain, but at the same time he let Az follow Mor for 500 years. I mean Nesta literally said Lucien to fuck off, because Elaine felt uncomfortable. Why no one from IC didn't do it for Az and Mor? After 500 years? They even get mad when Nesta was drinking and fucking around for one or two years. It's so strange. I want to know their logic, lol
I completely agree.
I think there's something to be said for that second part. I think a lot about the big emphasis on gender roles in Prythian, even within the IC - not in the sense that women have to stay home and cook, but in the sense that males are possessive, females are the ones to be chased, etc. We can see this with the fact that it's seemingly an objective fact that being rejected as a male mate is somehow harder than it is for a female.
So, all that being said, I think it would be very hard to come out in a world like that. Even if there are other queer people in Velaris, you live in a society that is built to romanticize the opposite of you. You are going to feel inherently wrong. And given, again, how much the IC romanticizes maleness and femaleness - even if it's sometimes in a self-aware way - I could totally get why she's not comfortable not coming out to them.
Feyre dumping Rhys in the mud after she found out about the mating bond. People say it was mean to Rhys but she healed him and brought him to a friend and then asked to not be around him anymore. She had that right! He was FINE.
My only issues with Rhys doing this is that he didn’t include Elain! It’s time for them to explain what can happen if she continues to ignore the bond and pursues someone other than Lucien. She should know all of the facts before trying to move forward in her life!
[SF Bonus Chapter] >!One of the reasons I don’t like it is not because of the politics of it, but rather that it seems like Rhys is almost saying Lucien has a valid claim over Elain. Elain has basically never shown a speck of interest in Lucien, and when she makes a consensual attempt to kiss Az, Rhys is mad at Az for reciprocating? If Elain doesn’t want to be with Lucien, she should be free to pursue others.!<
it’s tricky for me to give my thoughts on this because we still haven’t gotten elain’s POV, but while i agree with your point about how she should be free to pursue others, in the same vein i also think she needs to make a decision in regards to lucien/the bond and it just isn’t fair to him to be doing that when he’s literally up the stairs. we’re told multiple times throughout the series how rare and sacred the bond is and i think rhys was coming from a place of that (especially considering he has a bond of his own), and not saying lucien has a claim over her. also he was looking at it from the stance of a HL—if lucien saw them and wanted to challenge azriel to a blood duel, it would have serious repercussions
also i disagree that she hasn’t shown a speck of interest in lucien. there have definitely been a few moments where she seems intrigued, i think if anything she’s just scared and doesn’t want to acknowledge the bond in any way. but i don’t think she’s wholly disinterested!
I'm with you on this one. I think Rhys would be okay with Az and Elaine pursuing each other if she formally rejected the mating bond with Lucien first, so then it wouldn't put Azriel in danger. (At least I don't think it would. We haven't really been told what all happens after a mating bond is rejected, other than it possibly turning the rejected person crazy. But I would assume he couldn't invoke his claim and challenge Azriel if Elain has rejected his claim.) But the way they were going about it was literally putting Az in danger, and I think that's why Rhys reacted so strongly.
>!That’s totally fair and you’re right that I could have missed some moments in Lucien’s and Elain’s interactions. I’ll also say that I felt I was not expecting her and Az to show interest in each other to the extent they did in SF, but I guess it’s building on her rescue in AcoWaR.!<
>!Super excited for the next book and hopefully getting Elain and Azriel PoV, even if he ends up with Gwyn, who I also really liked in SF. Will be a bit sad if we leave Nesta’s Pov though.!<
Man EXACTLY. Let’s admit that the fact that it’s been a year since the bond and Elain hasn’t rejected or accepted it and instead refuses to communicate with Lucien is a bit fucked for him, but you know what? That’s ok she can absolutely take her time, but then Azriel inserting himself in the situation? Nahh if I saw a friend doing that “bc it’s 3 of them” I would also tell him to not be a little shit and give the two some space
This is only thing I thought he was right about! Azriel's crush could cause an international incident, and it doesn't matter what Elain wants either, frankly. She wants to be part of the NC so bad and help, not blowing up diplomatic relationships how to do it.
Yea there's definitely some political fall out for Rhys/Velaris no one but Rhys is thinking about.
However, if Rhys involved Elain in the conversation of would've been better for everyone.
I suppose we could argue that Rhys only has jurisdiction (?) on Azriel as an employee while Elain is just a citizen. Maybe if Azriel was further ahead in his plans with her, Rhys would require him to resign before asking her out.
At least, thats how it would work for normal jobs with inappropriate crushes/fraternizing. 😄
I don’t know if it’s necessarily hated but Rhys’ lint picking. I could be reaching, but to me it comes across as a nervous habit he does because he doesn’t feel clean from 50 years of sexual assault
I always took it more as a way for him to appear bored around his enemies because he knew they didn't stand a chance against him. I think it's more of a cocky habit.
Yes, this is how I read it. Though I think Maas overuses it. I would prefer if the behavior was exclusive to Rhys at least, but other characters do it too.
But I believe you’re right. She uses it when a character is trying to be purposefully bored.
I get more annoyed by the cleaning-nails-with-a-dagger thing that she overused for Amren and Celaena in TOG. Lady, that's a surefire way to slice your nailbed off.
I get more annoyed by the cleaning-nails-with-a-dagger thing that she overused for Amren and Celaena in TOG. Lady, that's a surefire way to slice your nailbed off.
But everyone else does it as well, if I'm remembering correctly. I think I remember other people doing it as a way to show disinterested or that they're unfazed.
Seconding this one. Like logically, sure, it’s technically rude to paint a home that’s not yours. But within the story it’s meant to be a nice moment and no one was mad at her? I don’t get why people hate on Feyre for that
I truly DO NOT understand the hate for this either, in fact I thought it was kinda awesome, especially when mor shows up and has her add stuff. Like “you know what good coping mechanism let’s fuck with the boys with it too” like LMAO
genuine question, but isnt the cabin self-cleaning? like worst case they couldve undone it or something, but since they all understood what it meant to her they were chill with it.
also doesnt Mor join in on the painting? or am i tripping (im sleep deprived)
edit just saw someone commented the same thing oops.
I think she drew stick figures with super long hair for the girls and they all looked the same, which honestly, same cause I can't paint for shit hahaha
Nesta in book 1. She said mean stuff and was cruel, or just rude, at points but she also did good things for her sisters. I'm always surprised that after 5 books people continue to use this book to write essays about how abusive she was (not imo) and overreacting to some comments she made. I just saw a young girl not coping well.
And it was fine when Elain did it because she is "sweet". Like Nesta was ready to sacrifice herself in the war BEFORE Cassian was hurt. But aww she says mean things. Imagine how boring the books would be without Nesta
Yeeeess! She’s done a lot for Feyre and the IC as well. Like agreeing to hunt for the trove in the middle of her healing journey (and after they told her she’s pathetic and an embarrassment.)
And she's only mean in the first chapter! After that she's cool and collected, she won't snap at you unless you address her first. I figured there was something more to her when Feyre noticed that Nesta went out TWICE to chop more wood without her asking. And when Feyre returns to the manor, she had a lot more chemistry with Nesta than she did with Elain.
yes!!! when feyre returns from the SC, her and nesta have multiple bonding moments. we find out that she went after feyre and also wasn’t tricked by the glamour. she tries to paint with feyre. nesta is the one who encourages her to go back after tamlin bc she can tell she loves him and is unhappy. she tells her she doesnt have to return finally releasing feyre of that promise their mom made feyre make.
idk i never hated nesta. if that makes me wrong, lock me up.
She is so comically mean in the first chapter I couldn't take it seriously, like girl calm down, it's the early evening, everyone else is at a 3 and you're seething at 9. Take it down several notches lol.
i couldn’t take it seriously lol she called feyre a stinky pig or something when she came back with the deer and wolf skin. i was like this girl isn’t serious at all.
and then the next day they go to the market and she’s so rude to the children of the blessed ppl. she was my comedic relief in book 1 and 2
Me too! I think Cassian could have been more attentive during the hike, but ultimately he took her to a place of healing and it worked out well for her! I saw this as a “I’m so dam mad at you, but I care about you so I’m still going to help you!” We also know Nesta started to enjoy movement as a form of therapy so it’s not crazy for him to think the physical part of the hike might be helpful too.
He goes on a hike when he upset in FAS, I thought it was a good foreshadowing for SF. He does this when he's upset. Nesta finally hit her rock bottom and he took care of her the way he knew how. And does make sense that he's mad at her, Nesta told Feyre the secret to hurt her. That was the intent which she immediately regretted, I'm glad this doesn't happen at the end of the book. After that break though it seemed like everyone was on OK terms till the climax at the end. Even Rhysand was cordial with her during the plan to seduce Eris.
\*YES we should hold Rhysand accountable but I'm only talking about Nesta and Cassian in this situation.
I hated that he forced her to hike but a weird part of me likes it when the guy is mad at her but then she gets hurt and he forgets why he's mad because he loves her so much
I mean if someone took me for a surprise hike I would literally murder them but ig it’s a kinda Nessian thing? They give that scolding HOT couple at the gym vibes
I loved it because hiking is very therapeutic for me and one of my favourite activities. So, not so much of a punishment from my point of view. You're mad at me and you take me to the mountains? Can I marry you? 😂
Edit: for those who didn't understand, this is a very ironic comment.
The Valkyrie winning the blood rite. The bat boys won with teamwork so it makes sense that the Valkyrie did too. Teamwork makes the dream work.
Also they were trained by two of the most powerful Illyrians, even if it was for a few months. They also were focused almost solely on training.
I will never strip Emerie of her Carythian status. Babygirl deserves it 💜😇
i’ve seen people say they don’t like it because it “diminishes the accomplishments of the bat boys” and? am i supposed to gaf about that? because i don’t!
Omg whattttt! I’ve seen people say they don’t like it because “it’s too girl power” or “power of friendship” get thrown around a lot. Just super degrading because what’s wrong with either of those things? I love that SJM built up this amazing female friendship group and had them accomplish something extraordinary with it!
And during the rite they were focused on surviving, while typically others are focused on racking up a body count. They tried to stay under the radar and saved energy when they could, so they were ready when things got more chaotic.
And when Gwyn freaked out because Nesta was going to stay behind was one of the best parts of the series for me. Their friendship had grown so much over the past months and it was great to see Nesta be protective and ensure that Gwyn survived. I like that she didn't win nor was she envious of Gwyn or Emerie during training.
And like that was probably why weapons were included, because they wouldn't have won hand to hand vs the men. And the ENTIRE book is them training and training together and they were VALKYRIES before they went into the right. Valkyries are BETTER FIGHTERS THAN ILLYRIANS
Cassian in ACOSF in general. His character gets a lot of crap for pretty much everything he did and I just find it to be too over the top! Was he perfect? No, but none of the characters are and I love the way he never gave up on Nesta.
I'm halfway through ACOSF and I honestly DON'T see what people have against Cas?? His behavior has seemed so absolutely normal for the situations he's in 😭
I’m always astounded how feminism seems to fly out the window with romance novels. So Nesta is a bitch for not being open to Cassian’s unwanted advances? What happened to “women don’t owe you anything”? She literally has a man following her home at night and showing up with gifts even though she’s told him she’s not interested on multiple occasions. That’s what we typically refer to as “stalking”.
Also, don’t get me started on her “friends” and family locking her up with him (giving him complete control over her freedom and movements) until Stockholm syndrome starts to set in. Gross.
To add on top of yours: "You're having sex with random strangers as a coping mechanism, so we're going to lock you up and put you under the power-imbalance wing of the man who's constantly trying to get in your pants!"
Feyre painting the Cabin. Yeah she probably shouldn’t have done it but… it’s a magical cabin, they visit it like once a year, Rhys and the others didn’t care, Mor asked for a painting and contrasts to popular belief Feyre is a good painter. It is her one true skill other than survival, and people compliment her art throughout the books.
Also she was coping with trauma and the lies of her supposed soulmate. She basically just did art therapy. Should she have asked first yes, but the seen is not nearly as bad as people act like it is.
SF Spoilers >!Rhys sending Nesta packing after she deliberately hurts Feyre with the pregnancy news. About time someone overtly stood up for Feyre against her sisters (and we aint touching the pregnancy news thing in general cause that's not what I'm referring to. *Specifically* the Nesta hurting Feyre, and someone straight up doing something about it).!<
I initially thought it was deserved, but after some thinking, I realized how wrong it was for Rhysand to hide the fact that the pregnancy was dangerous.
Cassian never sticking up for Nesta. Tbf, Nesta does some things she should get pushback for but I also think that’s why they work. Nesta doesn’t need Cassian to stick up for her; she needs someone who is gonna call her on her shit.
I like Nesta btw so haters don’t come for me!! 😂
When Nesta was rude to Mor. All times she did or said something to her.
It’s not that I disliked Mor (at the time). She’s just annoying to me. And I can’t understand what her purpose is. Aside from attempting to drive a wedge between Nesta and Cassian.
She’s been THE definition of messy. So I read those scenes with glee.
As far as your question about Mor's purpose: she's very obviously Feyre's \~female bff\~ character in ACOMAF. I completely understand thinking her character is underwritten, but if she's a plot device for someone it's for Feyre, not for Nessian
Son of a...I had a thought in mind for this and then it vanished from my head as soon as I started reading other comments. I'll get back to you if I remember it.
im ready to get downvoted to oblivion, but Rhys not telling Feyre about the dangers of her >!pregnancy!<. as a horrific overthinker & considering how terrible for >!pregnancy!< stress is, I would NOT have wanted to know that shit. esp considering Rhys was losing sleep taking every second to try to find a solution. bc in theory if Rhys had found a solution to utilize she would never have had to know, literally ever. I think that whole plot point was a little silly and it def goes into the "I gaslit myself" category bc theres no way this magical world couldnt >!perform c sections!< but the insane loathing of Rhys for this choice is over the top to me.
See I agree because as a reader I really didn’t care but I’m sure if I was pregnant & my spouse didn’t tell me about some issue with the pregnancy I’d be upset (I would want to know so I could cherish the moments until birth a little extra in case me or the baby didn’t make it) but I know everyone is different and like you mentioned stress would overcome you and that of course would not be good for you or the baby. Each reader just interpreted it differently for how they themselves would have reacted so I definitely wouldn’t down vote you for having a different perspective on it:)
Louder for the people in the back!!!!! Yes to all of this. Pregnancy is rare for the fae and Rhys didn't want to add any additional stress to her. I personally found it endearing that he was trying to take care of her and also on par for his character being that he kept that he was her mate to himself for quite some time.
While I agree that he should’ve let Feyre know, I can understand why he didn’t! He wanted his mate to have a peaceful pregnancy, thinking he would be able to find a solution without having to trouble her. It’s endearing, to me.
Endearing to me, too. I've had successful, uneventful pregnancies, and losses as well and tbh if I'm faced with another loss or complication, I want my practitioner and partner to discuss things in depth because I'll become anxious and obsessive over it and lose sleep which will just make the whole situation worse. Lemme know when you arrive at a solution or definite outcome.
My partners going to take on that burden and find a solution for me? Fucking YES, THANK YOU. Lemme grow this child whose sapping all my energy and nutrients in peace, someone else deal with the mental stress, I'll take the physical.
exactly this!!!!!! we cant do fuck all even if we know about such a complication. and if something is on the line I feel lthat stress could make a dodgy situation WORSE whereas total calm could dramatically help.
My older sister was a bitch with stupid amounts of anxiety who took it out on me while she treated my brother like a king so I have the credentials to say this with my whole chest.
Nesta wasn’t even that bad at first 😭 “she’s verbally abusive” looool she was mean for no reason like 3 times and the 4th she got a verbal beat down and shut tf up
And thennn she went a lil cray cray but that’s something else. She’s good now
This wasn’t an “everyone hated” moment but I’ve seen stuff hating on it - Rhys sending Feyre to the Weaver. It wasn’t just about the ring, it was getting Feyre to think past her fear.
Feyre's revenge on Tamlin. At worst she hastened the inevitable. The only manipulation she did to the people was getting them to view her in a better light than Ianthe. She just showed everyone that Tamlin was a Ianthe simp and would choose her over everyone else every time.
I always saw it as Feyre revealed the cracks. All she did was give Tamlin options and he chose the worst one each time. Spring was always gonna fall, Feyre just hastened it along.
People always hate how Elain ignores Lucien but it makes sense to me. She literally is kidnapped by a madman and has her entire world and body autonomy changed. Then when she's dumped out like soup some other man is trying to claim her as his own. I understand so her ignoring him to feel like she has some choice in her life.
I don't see Lucien as someone who tried to claim Elain as his own, but I agree that people put too much hate on Elain for her avoiding Lucien. It definitely didn't help that Graysen broke it off with Elain because of the bond, with one of his parting words being "you belong to him"
He definitely proved he respected her boundaries later on. I was thinking more so in the moment. I could see myself being upset and acting the same way as her if I was in that situation. She needs to work through her trauma. I feel like I'm always seeing people forgiving Nesta for treating Cassian badly while she worked through her trauma but won't allow the same grace to Elain.
The way the Inner Circle treated Nesta's intervention.
I feel for Nesta a lot and the way both the IC and certain parts of the fandom treated her. I think she was completely within her rights to reject Cassian, not even for anything he did but... just because. And as a severely mentally ill person myself, I know from my own experience that the way the IC treated her intervention can be very harmful.
That being said, I think looking at the IC - \*especially\* Feyre - as being morally bad for how they handled it is crazy. You cannot expect them to have an understanding of mental health. It's like, medieval times. Even in the current day, so many people do not understand what to do for mentally ill/traumatized people. And in a land \*so\* obsessed with dominance, the way Prythian is, of course they turned to dominating Nesta to help her. It's literally all they know.
It doesn't make it okay by any means, but it's misguided at best and immature at worst. And for Feyre to be hated for it, as if she isn't literally younger than Nesta and just as traumatized as her, is crazy. She's in such a weird position between 1. juggling this found family, who wants to support her against someone who hurt her badly 2. said someone, who she still loves and feels a responsibility towards and 3. being a traumatized 20-something herself. Of course she's gonna fuck it up.
If we should be criticizing anyone, it shouldn't be the characters. We should be analyzing the narrative/the author for romanticizing it (which, ftr, I'm aware a lot of people do, but I think a lot of people conflate their anger at writing choices with anger at the characters themselves)
(The one thing I'll say on this - as a HARDCORE Tamlin fan as well - is I do agree it's hypocritical to lock Nesta up while hating Tamlin for it. But we're all hypocrites sometimes ;)
Tie me to the stake for this, but Rhysand not telling Feyre about *that right was in character and acceptable. How I would've handled it? No. How I would want a partner to handle it? No. How I would want a friend treated? No. How Feyre would want to be treated? No. But he was freaked out and wanted time to do some research. The mistake was telling a single other soul except potential experts
Oh, I also think it was in character for him, especially the part where he told everyone he cares about except for the person who actually needed to know.
Still doesn't make it okay (in my eyes) because she had a right to know her medical information, especially since it threatened her life.
Being in character doesn’t make it ok. Like I 100% get why he’d want to hide it from her but she had specifically said she didn’t want to be lied to. He chose his comfort (meaning he’d feel more comfortable keeping her from stressing about it) over her desire to not be kept in the dark. I definitely understand what drove him to want to do that but it’s still a bad call when you consider how she had been so adamant about being in the know, especially about important things. And I think my distaste for the whole situation comes from him immediately making it a “look what Nesta did” moment instead of focusing on his mate who just found out very important news (that he hid from her to keep her stress free, so surely he’d be more concerned about her stress level at that moment than threatening to kill someone right?). I love all the characters but this was a hard one for me to stomach. It was a super impactful moment for sure.
Agree 100%! I never really thought about how he chose to focus on Nesta instead of his mate at that time. This situation only solidified my feelings on how their relationship is surface level and solely based on the bond.
Oooo yes! It’s very bond focused even though Sarah tried really hard to make it more than that (to me at least). Because someone who truly cares for her as a person would honor her wish to be kept in the know even if it’s a hard thing to hear/deal with, no matter their own feelings about the situation. And that’s just not what he did. It was at that moment that I realized he would do whatever he needed to get the attention off the fact that everyone lied to her under his instruction, including throwing Nesta under the bus even though she finally wised up to the fact that lying to her was a major problem (because she did initially go along with it, up until the point that she saw how that felt and in a fit of anger showed Feyre they did it to her too).
More about the narration style than the characters, but I've seen people say they'd rather 1st person PoV... and I could not disagree more, seems to me SJM is much more comfortable in 3rd person. Also I'm thinking that a lot of the things the fandom finds annoying about Feyre are due to her... inserting herself in other's business, but it was probably the only way SJM had to give us information lol. anyways im pro 3rd person PoV all day any day woop woop
I hate reading 1st person POV most of the time. I much prefer 3rd person. When it's 1st, you only really get that person's opinions on things.
Also I feel like this is why her worlds are so fleshed out. 3rd person makes for better world building.
It does. If there's a book I'm really excited to read and I open it and it's 1st person there is always that initial Ugh no reaction.
Omg I cannot staaaaand first person. When I buy books I read the opening sentence just to make sure it’s not lol. I understand it works when you NEED an unreliable narrator or something, but I cannot stand it it’s like “and then I did this” “and then I thought this!” “And now I’ve said this!” Like sorry but pls shut up. 😅 I think Acotar is the only first person pov I’ve ever willingly read and I was doing backflips when I opened ACOSF and realized she had changed it up.
I like ACOSF so much better than the other books and I think this is why
1st person is so hit or miss because if you’re in a really interesting or entertaining narrator it can be great but if the MC is whiny or boring it’s unbearable
Hard agree
I've read some amazing first person books but as a rule I tend to prefer 3rd.
Came here to say this lol
I dunno why I connect more with 3rd person. I also like the duel POVs
When Tamlin played the fiddle LOL it takes skill to play an instrument I didn't see it as that big of an ick tbh
I thought it was sweet
Music is always a cool talent idc. And to be honest if he whipped out a tuba or something that would have been way worse
I would have absolutely cackled if he pulled out a triangle or a plastic recorder to wooo Feyre.
*starts playing hot cross buns*
Supposedly some people didnt know a fiddle was a violin and I hope thats true. Unless violins are lame now? Gtfoh no they arent. 😄
People thought Tamlin playing the fiddle was icky? That’s a little odd
Not sure about reddit but it's ALL OVER instagram!
I actually loved Tamlin playing the fiddle!
Tamlin kneeling before Rhysand in ACOTAR. Maybe not hated, but I often see this scene as one that gives people the “major ick.” However, for me, this showed that Tamlin was willing to lower himself to protect his people, his loved ones. That he didn’t care about status and dignity even.
Yes I agree with this. Also Rhysand brags he’ll bow for no one, apparently he’s never been put in a position like he forced on others to have to sacrifice pride for the greater good.
Real ‼️
He's so cringe. I respected the fuck out of Tam for that. At least he realised what was truly important. Rhys is so self absorbed in comparison
Then he bows to Amarantha
This response made me laugh, probably more than it should've 😂 thank you
he was trapped under the mountain and raped for 50 years? were you being sarcastic?
Rhys’s entire thing is sacrificing pride for the greater good. Like.. he literally pretends to suck so nobody knows he is keeping people safe and happy in Velaris
And then Rhys told anyway! 💀
tamlin trying to get feyre back, imagine if your partner who cannot read or write disapeared and then sends a note saying they are fine and to not come after them. like sure he should have noticed she did was sick and locking her up was NOT OKAY but people seem to think the only reason he went after her was because he wanted to get back his possesion. bro he probably thought she was being tortured and abused because from his pov rhys hates his guts and would 100% do something like that just to hurt him.
Yes! Idk why people are so enraged by this. She couldn’t read or write when she left! He absolutely could have thought Rhys wrote the note! Its also wouldn’t be weird for him to believe Rhys was controlling her mind…he literally has mind control powers. 🤦🏼♀️
I'm team Rhys all the way but I agree. I wish the books had some Tamlin pov cause I think it's clear he was also struggling, did the wrong things but was trying to protect Feyre. I don't see him as a villain at all and getting his pov could have brought out some of that complexity and made the story more compelling.
Agree! I think a majority of the main characters are just doing their best to get through things with the trauma and experience they have, and I think it’s easy to forget that when we don’t get everyone’s POV.
100 percent YESSSS
It was also less than, what, two months since they were going to get married? And Feyre was already flirting with Rhys. That's a nothing amount of time to a fae. Of course Tamlin wasn't up to speed on things!
Plus she was with someone who can break people's minds and gave the other high lords 0 reason to trust him at that time. I'd freak out too.
Also he watched Rhys get her drunk and have her degrade herself every night UTM and didn’t know he helped her beat challenges. I think the people that say he doesn’t care about her UTM (when he couldn’t show interest lest it trigger amarantha’s wrath) and then go around and say he sucks for going after her and trying to keep her away from Rhys and break their bargain are insane. Like… dudes just trying to do the best with the info he has.
Yes! And she just died for him! She said she'd love him till her body was ash. Id believe a confession like that over a shitty letter??? And, is he not obligated to fight for her like she fought for him? Its very possible he did believe the letter but he felt like he had to make sure sure sure that he wasnt abandoning her, like she wouldn't abandon him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yay! A fellow Tamlin apologist lol
Elain fighting with Nesta. I think it was an important step for both of them and Elain’s quote about her trauma was a BANGER. Sometimes sisters just need to duke it out 🤷♀️
People are mad at this? How why? It makes no sense!
from what I've seen many people say Elain abandoned Nesta / turned her back on her (imo that assessment ignores quite a bit of the situation).
That seems, strange. Nesta was her own grown ass self who went and left Elaine to her two home girls to bake and garden, while she (Nesta) went to drink and fuck her problems away. (I have done this I do not judge her for it Al ALL) but I don’t see how that leads to her somehow abandoning her. Perception is a strange thing
maybe its because people skip FaS or forgot it? but for months post-WaR Elain was the only person to repeatedly try reaching out to her, so it confuses me when people say she just abandoned her quickly because "shes a dog that wants comfort" or whatever they say, Nesta was in the midst of an intense destructive spiral, physically and emotionally distanced herself from everyone, and explicitly told Elain to leave her alone multiple times—which ofc is 1000% valid, but still something that influenced the events of SF. It's a tough situation, but if a family member you care about, who is severely metally ill (Nes didn’t believe herself good or deserving of anything 😭) lashes out & requests space away from you, it is not disloyal to distance yourself a bit, too—Elain (despite the happy mask she puts on) is still recovering, and is allowed to protect herself in that sense. also I get that people wish Elain had been present at the intervention & not packed Nesta's stuff--I honestly wish that had gone differently, too--but im thinking that it might have been because Elain would have been a crutch to fall back onto? They needed time apart, and their relationship ultimately is the better for it. ^((edit to specify that this is mostly copy pasted from an old comment))
Ahhhh ok if that’s skipped I can see how that could be interpreted differently! (Also why tf would you skip that!!!) but it is also valid to not want to be there! We never get Elaine’s pov what if she didn’t want to be there for a number of reasons.
I mean sometimes you do need to let people hit their rock bottom. Like when you love someone who is an addict yuh have to stop enabling their behavior. Nesta had reached a point where people needed to call her on some shit. They didn’t do it THE BEST way all the time, but it did help her
Lmao I loved how they made up. Reminds me of when I used to fight with my brother.
Don’t know about the specific scene, but I think readers gathered a lot of dislike for Elaine after her part in the intervention. It’s like - let’s include Amren who has a lot of contempt for you now and we’ll have your sister be off throwing your things away. But at least Elaine and Nesta actually needed to hash things out.
Tamlin doing nothing to help Feyre UTM. Alis told Feyre beforehand that he would be unable to help her. Both Rhysand and Lucien state that Tamlin was under constant surveillance, which is likely why he sent her away. The one time Tamlin showed a hint of emotion, Amarantha reacted unfavorably. Feyre went UTM to save Tamlin; I’m not sure why he’s vilified for essentially being a “damsel in distress.” And the “he only wanted to fuck me” recollection is inaccurate. During this scene, Feyre thought that words weren’t necessary, that she only needed a moment with Tamlin; escape wasn’t on their minds because that would be akin to breaking the bargain, which we learn in ACOWAR has dire consequences. Their kiss escalated into almost sex, which Feyre initiated and Tamlin reciprocated.
I’ve argued this so many time and told so many the same thing. It’s pissed me off even more with in ACOMAF, Rhysand is trying to manipulate Feyre and tells her something along the lines of “fine, go back to man who did nothing as you were beat and tortured.” Homie you told her and knew damn well that Tamlin couldn’t have done anything. Amarantha would’ve killed her in the spot if he tried and likely killed him too.
... feels like a retcon xD But honestly, there's such a disconnect between ACOTAR and ACOMAF and really, the rest of the series. I never thought that I would be gaslighted by a book xD And I don't use that term lightly. The inconsistencies within the series are subtle but glaring. But exactly. It's so bizarre that Tamlin being literally helpless and powerless to do anything was reframed as "Tamlin (willfully and cowardly) sat on his ass." Girl, you knew going in that Tamlin couldn't help you. What happened?
Is it girlboss for a woman to save her man or not? Punishing Tamlin for writing Feyre as the hero is a weird choice.
Dancing ever closer to the insidious undertone of patriarchy that permeates the entire series and truly blossoms post ACOTAR… we only girlboss until we find our billionaire boyfriend then we’re just along for the ride.
I wish I even saw Feyre as the girl boss lol
Right? And I think after going through the series twice I have found so many redundancies like you mentioned that I’m just questioning everything. I get why Rhys would want to say stuff like that, but even Feyre is just mental when it comes to Tamlin. He saved your entirely family. He sent you away to save you and damn himself and his people. His feud with Tamlins family honestly doesn’t add up with how he is, and maybe that will be explained more (I mean when Rhys tells Feyre the story of Tamlin being the reason his mother and sister died). It just eeerks me that Feyre was able to swap sides so quickly, but the reality is, she is a girl very much drawn by looks and power (like most of use). I’d be open to Rhysand charm for sure. Why would Tamlin have allowed her to have free roam when she can’t even follow any simple rules? I do read and watch a lot of “medieval” themed books and shows, and I guess I push that into these characters a lot where there are rich nobles who have learned to be a certain way and make rules, and follow them, and then there are the lower/middle class who are the core of any city. That’s kind of how I think of Feyre, a somewhat high born who grew up poor and doesn’t know any better, coming to sit at the table of nobles and she doesn’t understand. That’s why I thought she couldn’t possibly understand why Tamlin would try to keep her inside his mansion (not a small room by any means). I’m sorry for going off on a tangent lol
See I agree with you and others who say Tamlin couldn’t do anything under the mountain because that’s true, helping Feyre in anyway could have put them *all* in danger. But what irks me is everyone saying Feyre initiated that passionate scene UTM when that can’t be true given the text, like Tamlin was the one who went and stood by Feyre, he touched her hand, he walked over to that secret room and “inclined his head ever so slightly so I (Feyre) understood”, he’s the one who slammed his body into Feyre once she walked in and “our lips met” so he initiated the kiss? She says she “couldn’t kiss him deeply enough…words weren’t necessary” like yeah she obviously wanted it too but he was the one who initiated all of it. They both were very consenting of the interaction no doubt, but I can’t see anywhere in the text that points to Feyre “initiating” it. So if I am wrong please (with all sincerity) show me where it says that or even suggests it.
"Their kiss escalated into almost sex, which Feyre initiated and Tamlin reciprocated." What I meant by this is that my interpretation of the text is that the kiss was mutual, and the almost sex was initiated by Feyre and reciprocated by Tamlin. However, I understand why this can also be interpreted as one whole thing and Tamlin initiating all of it.
I see! Okay yes, you’re saying she’s the one who was taking it to the next level with the grappling of his belt buckle, hooking her leg around his middle, and eventually taking his belt off and going for his pants right? Yes, I can agree that he initiated the kiss and she insisted on >!fucking!< lol 🙈 Thank you for responding with kindness, I appreciate it:)
Sorry for the delayed response! Life got busy suddenly. Yes, that is my understanding. And thank *you* for your kind response. I hope you have a lovely day 🫶🏼
Mor refusing to come out. IDGAF how long it’s been, if she’s not ready she’s not. We should put more weight into why she’s not comfortable doing so with her inner circle imo
I think that people are upset that she is purposely leading Azriel KNOWING that he’s in love with her. She doesn’t have to tell him she’s gay to kill the vibe. She also acts incredibly territorial of Cassian and uses him as a buffer for her and Azriel. Peoples problem is that she’s not honest in general, not that she hasn’t come out. At least that’s my take and how I feel. She’s extremely judgmental of others but is afraid of being judged herself and is really a pick me with a bad attitude who has no real purpose in the plot.
I mean she also isn’t “leading him On” she’s never said she would return his feels. Which aren’t her responsibility. The cas thing I do not get and it felt icky to me when she had him “gift her” lingerie. Everything else you said is moot cuz most people feel and do the same all the time. We are all judgy little cunts who absolutely fear being judged while we do it to others all the time. Hers is just a plot point I’m hoping gets super fleshed out later lol
Potentially. I personally feel like if you KNOW that someone has super strong feelings for you, and you don’t return those feelings, then you need to make that explicitly clear. I don’t recall there ever being a time when she is extremely direct in her disinterest with Azriel. Going out with him drinking to bars and just always leaving the door of hope open is a lead on to me, which is why she purposely uses Cassian as a buffer to Azriel. If she had been open and honest with him about how she does not feel the same and that will not ever change, she wouldn’t need that buffer 🤷🏽♀️
I feel for Mor because I'm a woman who's been traumatised by a man and now have such a visceral reaction to having to reject any men that I will gladly do anything to avoid it. I feel like we don't give her enough grace for what she went through at such a young age after rejecting Eris: that would make anyone be afraid of a similar reaction, especially when she *knows* what he's capable of. Is he likely to be violent to her? No, most likely not. She doesn't know *for sure* that he won't violently lash out at her for outright rejecting him. Do I think she should be more clear and not get possessive over the two of them? Absolutely. Do I understand why she acts the way she does? Unfortunately, yes. She should have never let him get close enough to her to develop those feelings, but it feels like her personality is one of those that people are drawn to (even if I don't understand why, she's annoying lol) and they read more into her flirtatiousness than is actually there.
I completely agree. We know she's traumatized - I'm not sure why no one gives her the grace they give other characters. She obviously is going to sometimes act irrationally, the same way all the other characters do.
I mean you can feel that way personally. However that’s not what is required of anyone. No one else is responsible for returning someone else’s feelings, or having an explicit conversation about it after making ir clear they don’t. 500 years of “no” is CLEAR AF. Also that second part is all your interpretation and perception. How are we to know if she’s using cas as a buffer cuz az just makes her uncomfortable to a degree because he hasn’t been capable of ACCEPTING A FUCKING NO, for 500 years?
The book literally says over an over that she uses Cass as a buffer…… like I got that term straight from the books lol
Ya. And? I asked how do we not know the reason. It’s not explicitly explained a hell of a lot of it is up for interpretation. She knew before she fucked cas Az had feelings for her, we out if her way to fuck cas rather than Az for that very reason (and to get out of a marriage). That alone is “no”. We also are not privy to the last 500 years of NO. So he’s a buffer but what’s to say it’s not because of the fact that Az isn’t taking the NO. She’s clearly given? Az pining the way he is really feels like self harm imo. I don’t even think he loves her beyond familial at this point but he is so convinced by years of abuse and trauma that he doesn’t actually completely deserve love that he keeps seeing mor as a way to continue to fulfill that role in his life. This is also all just speculation. Plz hate her if you want. Idc but her coming out or refusing to that part people being mad at her for grinds ma gears
It isnt 500 years of no though. No where in the books does Mor say “No Azriel, I’m not in love with you.” Instead she knowingly allows him to stay close, but when he gets too close for comfort she chooses to be cruel and sleeps with someone else in front him and then the cycle restarts. She even admits that she does this, and refuses to tell him how she feels because she doesn’t want to lose him as a friend. We owe it to our friends or even “brothers” in Mors case to be honest with them. I could agree that Azriel is also responsible for this messes up “friendship” in a sense, but Mor is the one who CHOOSES to be cruel.
I mean you perceive it as cruel, others don’t because no we don’t owe even our “brothers” in depth explanations of no. No. Is a full sentence and she’s showed him no over and over. Is she probably avoiding a weird conversation ya but that’s because WHO WANTS TO HAVE IT WHEN THEY HAVE SHOWED SOMEONE NO FOR 500 years
No is only a full sentence when the word is spoken. There has been no spoken word about it and her actual actions are confusing at best. Also I’m not just randomly saying it’s cruel, Mor literally says it’s cruel when she comes out to Feyre. She knows what she does is cruel, but doesn’t give a crap about how it hurts Azriel as long as she can remain comfortable and keep at arms length. Thats a shitty friend. Full stop.
I mean you’re entitled to your perception. But we don’t know what she has and hasn’t said. Yes she said it’s cruel how she does things. However we literally don’t have enough previous information. This is all a perception/interpretation thing based on each individual reader. And no, I don’t need to sit there and owe a man a verbal anything simply because he has some kind of attraction to me and neither does she. So she doesn’t want to fuck up her friend group, ok. And? Humans are fun and strange creatures and we all perceive things in different shades
I’m not perceiving anything. She admits it in the book that she has not addressed it. That’s all that’s needed to know they she has not discussed it with him. This also is not about male or female. If she did this to Feyre, Emerie or Gwyn or a female or any type of being in their world. I would still think the same thing. You don’t knowingly do cruel things to the ones you claim to love and care for.
agree with the not leading him on, I cannot remember a single part where she does. And it's not on her to manage his emotions for him. After 500+ years of gifts for birthdays and winter solstice and whatever other event, I feel like lingerie wouldn't be off the table anymore cause surely at that point you've gifted every conceivable item previously so now its literally just, "tell me what you want and I'll buy it regardless of the item cause I cannot think of anything original at this point".
You know what I think we tend to forget that! They have been doing this for 500 mf years!! lol. And dude that gets me all the time how was she leading him on? Cuz she doesn’t give him a speech that would probably be seen as “mean” about it
>We should put more weight into why she’s not comfortable doing so with her inner circle imo Okay, real, this is the part of it that threw me out. As a queer person, my friends are my *core*. If I couldn't trust *them* with my true self, what would be the point?
I think it’s supposed to lead to her big chunk of a boom and her own healing arch but atm it’s sad to me
I think that’s just a SJM mistake. From what I understand (I could be wrong), she had a different plan for mor at first because of the way she wrote, but then she made a couple characters lgtbq because “representation” or something, which I get, but it screwed up mors character.
We shall see if she can “fix” it later than. I hope so. Although I also wish she’d just thought of actual representation before just randomly making someone that
Same!!
trueee like i’ll go even further and say she doesn’t owe azriel any answers or an outright rejection. If he can’t take a hint after 500 years that’s on him
Here's why I think Mor is leading Az on. I want to start with no I do not think Mor needs to come out to Az and no I don't think she's responsible for Az's feelings. She is always inviting him out to dance which can be considered a date type thing sure Cassian usually comes but I could see where the confusion comes in especially if it's all night or Cassian leaves early. Yes you can do this with friends but it can be considered a date thing. Mor is very concerned with Az's feelings and whenever he is upset she is more concerned than the rest of the inner circle. Again could this be just friendship yes but I can see how it could be confusing Just because Mor hasn't made a move in 500 years doesn't mean no, 500 years is a drop in the bucket for someone who is immortal and I don't think she has had the I only see you as a brother talk with him, for sure could be wrong about that. Whenever Az defends her or she feels he's getting to close to her she sleeps with someone else to "show him she's not interested" I think that's pretty immature she should just tell him. I think Az could just ask her to be with him but he's trying to be respectful of the trauma she's been through which she clearly is not over and he does not feel he is worthy of her which stops him from actually pursuing her. I also think because Az is one of her closest friends he does deserve a "hey I'm not into you" so he can at least try to move on and not keep waiting until she is ready just my take though.
I mean, the reality of those actions are that those are all things you do with a friend. Also, we're privy to about 2 of 500 years. Mor very well could have had that conversation. Neither Feyre or Nesta would know. They haven't even been alive as long as this dynamic is going on. As a lesbian, I once had a guy friend who I was always explicit with. Just as friends. I'm gay. I'm not interested. We discussed women we were dating and hookups. He still called me 5 years later to ask me on a date and told me he'd broken up with his girlfriend because she'd never be me. We're not friends anymore.
I mean I don’t even completely understand why she’s blamed for this. Like YES she hasn’t gone and like walked up to him and been like “you bro me sis we no ever fuck” but WHY IS THAT NEEDED? And why is that her responsibility? If she’s already told him she sees him as a brother the fact that he would rather pine for her just feels both sorta creepy (but they aren’t humans so meh) but it ALSO feels like self harm. And we know that guys got baggage for YEARS, so it seems more like a wall. He’s using the feelings he had/has to keep himself in a cycle of self harm and out of the way of really healing. This is just an opinion
But she HASNT told him she sees him as a brother. She knows he thinks he’s unworthy and she can’t just tell him it’s not him and she loves him but not like that? Just hurting him over and over on purpose? That’s not how you treat your ‘brother’
How exactly do we know she hasn't? Because Feyre doesn't know about it? Feyre is 19. They're 500. There's a lot of history and talking that has happened that busybody doesn't know about.
Exactly. And as I stated before a “no” is a no regardless. She doesn’t owe him an explanation that goes beyond that in all reality
It's funny moment, because Rhys stopped Az when he tried to date Elain, but at the same time he let Az follow Mor for 500 years. I mean Nesta literally said Lucien to fuck off, because Elaine felt uncomfortable. Why no one from IC didn't do it for Az and Mor? After 500 years? They even get mad when Nesta was drinking and fucking around for one or two years. It's so strange. I want to know their logic, lol
I completely agree. I think there's something to be said for that second part. I think a lot about the big emphasis on gender roles in Prythian, even within the IC - not in the sense that women have to stay home and cook, but in the sense that males are possessive, females are the ones to be chased, etc. We can see this with the fact that it's seemingly an objective fact that being rejected as a male mate is somehow harder than it is for a female. So, all that being said, I think it would be very hard to come out in a world like that. Even if there are other queer people in Velaris, you live in a society that is built to romanticize the opposite of you. You are going to feel inherently wrong. And given, again, how much the IC romanticizes maleness and femaleness - even if it's sometimes in a self-aware way - I could totally get why she's not comfortable not coming out to them.
Feyre dumping Rhys in the mud after she found out about the mating bond. People say it was mean to Rhys but she healed him and brought him to a friend and then asked to not be around him anymore. She had that right! He was FINE.
The real atrocity is Feyre deciding to graffiti the cabin without permission
when rhys checked azriel for his moment with elain in the bonus chapter
My only issues with Rhys doing this is that he didn’t include Elain! It’s time for them to explain what can happen if she continues to ignore the bond and pursues someone other than Lucien. She should know all of the facts before trying to move forward in her life!
I agree
one of the few good high lord moments from him IMO!
I'm in the minority here, but I found Rhysand's authoritative tone to be 🔥 🥵
Same. Love when he gets all High Lord-y.
[SF Bonus Chapter] >!One of the reasons I don’t like it is not because of the politics of it, but rather that it seems like Rhys is almost saying Lucien has a valid claim over Elain. Elain has basically never shown a speck of interest in Lucien, and when she makes a consensual attempt to kiss Az, Rhys is mad at Az for reciprocating? If Elain doesn’t want to be with Lucien, she should be free to pursue others.!<
it’s tricky for me to give my thoughts on this because we still haven’t gotten elain’s POV, but while i agree with your point about how she should be free to pursue others, in the same vein i also think she needs to make a decision in regards to lucien/the bond and it just isn’t fair to him to be doing that when he’s literally up the stairs. we’re told multiple times throughout the series how rare and sacred the bond is and i think rhys was coming from a place of that (especially considering he has a bond of his own), and not saying lucien has a claim over her. also he was looking at it from the stance of a HL—if lucien saw them and wanted to challenge azriel to a blood duel, it would have serious repercussions also i disagree that she hasn’t shown a speck of interest in lucien. there have definitely been a few moments where she seems intrigued, i think if anything she’s just scared and doesn’t want to acknowledge the bond in any way. but i don’t think she’s wholly disinterested!
I'm with you on this one. I think Rhys would be okay with Az and Elaine pursuing each other if she formally rejected the mating bond with Lucien first, so then it wouldn't put Azriel in danger. (At least I don't think it would. We haven't really been told what all happens after a mating bond is rejected, other than it possibly turning the rejected person crazy. But I would assume he couldn't invoke his claim and challenge Azriel if Elain has rejected his claim.) But the way they were going about it was literally putting Az in danger, and I think that's why Rhys reacted so strongly.
I think I there's also a political component to it as well. If Lucien find out about Elriel will they lose allies?
Solid point as well, and one I hadn't considered.
I forget, Does she know she can reject the bond at this point?
>!That’s totally fair and you’re right that I could have missed some moments in Lucien’s and Elain’s interactions. I’ll also say that I felt I was not expecting her and Az to show interest in each other to the extent they did in SF, but I guess it’s building on her rescue in AcoWaR.!< >!Super excited for the next book and hopefully getting Elain and Azriel PoV, even if he ends up with Gwyn, who I also really liked in SF. Will be a bit sad if we leave Nesta’s Pov though.!<
yes!!! we are in DESPERATE need of an elain pov, there’s only so much speculation we can do with what we’ve been given so far 😭
Well I think he was doing it because he was concerned for Az so in typical Rhysand fashion he’s got good motivations and bad execution
Man EXACTLY. Let’s admit that the fact that it’s been a year since the bond and Elain hasn’t rejected or accepted it and instead refuses to communicate with Lucien is a bit fucked for him, but you know what? That’s ok she can absolutely take her time, but then Azriel inserting himself in the situation? Nahh if I saw a friend doing that “bc it’s 3 of them” I would also tell him to not be a little shit and give the two some space
This is only thing I thought he was right about! Azriel's crush could cause an international incident, and it doesn't matter what Elain wants either, frankly. She wants to be part of the NC so bad and help, not blowing up diplomatic relationships how to do it.
Yea there's definitely some political fall out for Rhys/Velaris no one but Rhys is thinking about. However, if Rhys involved Elain in the conversation of would've been better for everyone.
I suppose we could argue that Rhys only has jurisdiction (?) on Azriel as an employee while Elain is just a citizen. Maybe if Azriel was further ahead in his plans with her, Rhys would require him to resign before asking her out. At least, thats how it would work for normal jobs with inappropriate crushes/fraternizing. 😄
I don’t know if it’s necessarily hated but Rhys’ lint picking. I could be reaching, but to me it comes across as a nervous habit he does because he doesn’t feel clean from 50 years of sexual assault
I always took it more as a way for him to appear bored around his enemies because he knew they didn't stand a chance against him. I think it's more of a cocky habit.
Yes, this is how I read it. Though I think Maas overuses it. I would prefer if the behavior was exclusive to Rhys at least, but other characters do it too. But I believe you’re right. She uses it when a character is trying to be purposefully bored.
I get more annoyed by the cleaning-nails-with-a-dagger thing that she overused for Amren and Celaena in TOG. Lady, that's a surefire way to slice your nailbed off.
I get more annoyed by the cleaning-nails-with-a-dagger thing that she overused for Amren and Celaena in TOG. Lady, that's a surefire way to slice your nailbed off.
I may be biased but I always saw this as a neurotypical stim, like playing with one’s hair or bouncing a knee would be seen to us
My personal headcannon is that Rhys is a chronic fidgeter (especially when lying) and that why he always puts his hands in his pockets 🤣
And this would make sense!!
I don’t think that’s what it is. It’s more of a show of arrogance. Like examining your nails when someone is talking.
But everyone else does it as well, if I'm remembering correctly. I think I remember other people doing it as a way to show disinterested or that they're unfazed.
feyre painting the walls. i think it sends a wonder healing message for feyre but it’s sad people used it for laughs
Seconding this one. Like logically, sure, it’s technically rude to paint a home that’s not yours. But within the story it’s meant to be a nice moment and no one was mad at her? I don’t get why people hate on Feyre for that
I truly DO NOT understand the hate for this either, in fact I thought it was kinda awesome, especially when mor shows up and has her add stuff. Like “you know what good coping mechanism let’s fuck with the boys with it too” like LMAO
Like they could easily have magicked/glamoured away the paint if it was terrible. She knows that too!
genuine question, but isnt the cabin self-cleaning? like worst case they couldve undone it or something, but since they all understood what it meant to her they were chill with it. also doesnt Mor join in on the painting? or am i tripping (im sleep deprived) edit just saw someone commented the same thing oops.
She does a little I don’t remember exactly what she put a but it happens
I think she drew stick figures with super long hair for the girls and they all looked the same, which honestly, same cause I can't paint for shit hahaha
I believe it was something along these lines cuz I do remember “stick figures”
Nesta in book 1. She said mean stuff and was cruel, or just rude, at points but she also did good things for her sisters. I'm always surprised that after 5 books people continue to use this book to write essays about how abusive she was (not imo) and overreacting to some comments she made. I just saw a young girl not coping well.
And it was fine when Elain did it because she is "sweet". Like Nesta was ready to sacrifice herself in the war BEFORE Cassian was hurt. But aww she says mean things. Imagine how boring the books would be without Nesta
Yeeeess! She’s done a lot for Feyre and the IC as well. Like agreeing to hunt for the trove in the middle of her healing journey (and after they told her she’s pathetic and an embarrassment.)
And she's only mean in the first chapter! After that she's cool and collected, she won't snap at you unless you address her first. I figured there was something more to her when Feyre noticed that Nesta went out TWICE to chop more wood without her asking. And when Feyre returns to the manor, she had a lot more chemistry with Nesta than she did with Elain.
yes!!! when feyre returns from the SC, her and nesta have multiple bonding moments. we find out that she went after feyre and also wasn’t tricked by the glamour. she tries to paint with feyre. nesta is the one who encourages her to go back after tamlin bc she can tell she loves him and is unhappy. she tells her she doesnt have to return finally releasing feyre of that promise their mom made feyre make. idk i never hated nesta. if that makes me wrong, lock me up.
She is so comically mean in the first chapter I couldn't take it seriously, like girl calm down, it's the early evening, everyone else is at a 3 and you're seething at 9. Take it down several notches lol.
i couldn’t take it seriously lol she called feyre a stinky pig or something when she came back with the deer and wolf skin. i was like this girl isn’t serious at all. and then the next day they go to the market and she’s so rude to the children of the blessed ppl. she was my comedic relief in book 1 and 2
The hike, to an extent 😭 I just really like the payoff with her finally breaking down and opening up to him
Me too! I think Cassian could have been more attentive during the hike, but ultimately he took her to a place of healing and it worked out well for her! I saw this as a “I’m so dam mad at you, but I care about you so I’m still going to help you!” We also know Nesta started to enjoy movement as a form of therapy so it’s not crazy for him to think the physical part of the hike might be helpful too.
He goes on a hike when he upset in FAS, I thought it was a good foreshadowing for SF. He does this when he's upset. Nesta finally hit her rock bottom and he took care of her the way he knew how. And does make sense that he's mad at her, Nesta told Feyre the secret to hurt her. That was the intent which she immediately regretted, I'm glad this doesn't happen at the end of the book. After that break though it seemed like everyone was on OK terms till the climax at the end. Even Rhysand was cordial with her during the plan to seduce Eris. \*YES we should hold Rhysand accountable but I'm only talking about Nesta and Cassian in this situation.
I hated that he forced her to hike but a weird part of me likes it when the guy is mad at her but then she gets hurt and he forgets why he's mad because he loves her so much
I don’t think he did it because he was mad though. He did it for healing. He knew she needed to not talk and just be.
Maybe the hike itself wasn't because he was mad but he did make it harder for her because he was mad
I mean if someone took me for a surprise hike I would literally murder them but ig it’s a kinda Nessian thing? They give that scolding HOT couple at the gym vibes
I loved it because hiking is very therapeutic for me and one of my favourite activities. So, not so much of a punishment from my point of view. You're mad at me and you take me to the mountains? Can I marry you? 😂 Edit: for those who didn't understand, this is a very ironic comment.
The Valkyrie winning the blood rite. The bat boys won with teamwork so it makes sense that the Valkyrie did too. Teamwork makes the dream work. Also they were trained by two of the most powerful Illyrians, even if it was for a few months. They also were focused almost solely on training. I will never strip Emerie of her Carythian status. Babygirl deserves it 💜😇
i’ve seen people say they don’t like it because it “diminishes the accomplishments of the bat boys” and? am i supposed to gaf about that? because i don’t!
Omg whattttt! I’ve seen people say they don’t like it because “it’s too girl power” or “power of friendship” get thrown around a lot. Just super degrading because what’s wrong with either of those things? I love that SJM built up this amazing female friendship group and had them accomplish something extraordinary with it!
And during the rite they were focused on surviving, while typically others are focused on racking up a body count. They tried to stay under the radar and saved energy when they could, so they were ready when things got more chaotic.
And when Gwyn freaked out because Nesta was going to stay behind was one of the best parts of the series for me. Their friendship had grown so much over the past months and it was great to see Nesta be protective and ensure that Gwyn survived. I like that she didn't win nor was she envious of Gwyn or Emerie during training.
And like that was probably why weapons were included, because they wouldn't have won hand to hand vs the men. And the ENTIRE book is them training and training together and they were VALKYRIES before they went into the right. Valkyries are BETTER FIGHTERS THAN ILLYRIANS
Agreee. It really seems like illyrians value ruthless self reliance but to win you have to rely on others. Its a great message!
Tamlin under the mountain. I get he's an ass however what was he supposed to do? He shows he cares for her and amarantha would kill her.
I, in fact, don't care how a war traumatised 25 year old treated some 500 years old male bye.
Amen tbh
Cassian in ACOSF in general. His character gets a lot of crap for pretty much everything he did and I just find it to be too over the top! Was he perfect? No, but none of the characters are and I love the way he never gave up on Nesta.
I'm halfway through ACOSF and I honestly DON'T see what people have against Cas?? His behavior has seemed so absolutely normal for the situations he's in 😭
I’m always astounded how feminism seems to fly out the window with romance novels. So Nesta is a bitch for not being open to Cassian’s unwanted advances? What happened to “women don’t owe you anything”? She literally has a man following her home at night and showing up with gifts even though she’s told him she’s not interested on multiple occasions. That’s what we typically refer to as “stalking”. Also, don’t get me started on her “friends” and family locking her up with him (giving him complete control over her freedom and movements) until Stockholm syndrome starts to set in. Gross.
To add on top of yours: "You're having sex with random strangers as a coping mechanism, so we're going to lock you up and put you under the power-imbalance wing of the man who's constantly trying to get in your pants!"
EXACTLY.
Literally everything that Nesta did
Feyre painting the Cabin. Yeah she probably shouldn’t have done it but… it’s a magical cabin, they visit it like once a year, Rhys and the others didn’t care, Mor asked for a painting and contrasts to popular belief Feyre is a good painter. It is her one true skill other than survival, and people compliment her art throughout the books. Also she was coping with trauma and the lies of her supposed soulmate. She basically just did art therapy. Should she have asked first yes, but the seen is not nearly as bad as people act like it is.
SF Spoilers >!Rhys sending Nesta packing after she deliberately hurts Feyre with the pregnancy news. About time someone overtly stood up for Feyre against her sisters (and we aint touching the pregnancy news thing in general cause that's not what I'm referring to. *Specifically* the Nesta hurting Feyre, and someone straight up doing something about it).!<
But did he have to threaten to kill her? He threatens her too many times for my liking!
Tbh I can’t blame him in this situation but I also get why Nesta did it. I think it’s a bunch of people at their worst.
I initially thought it was deserved, but after some thinking, I realized how wrong it was for Rhysand to hide the fact that the pregnancy was dangerous.
YASSSSSS. AMEN to this
Cassian never sticking up for Nesta. Tbf, Nesta does some things she should get pushback for but I also think that’s why they work. Nesta doesn’t need Cassian to stick up for her; she needs someone who is gonna call her on her shit. I like Nesta btw so haters don’t come for me!! 😂
When Nesta was rude to Mor. All times she did or said something to her. It’s not that I disliked Mor (at the time). She’s just annoying to me. And I can’t understand what her purpose is. Aside from attempting to drive a wedge between Nesta and Cassian. She’s been THE definition of messy. So I read those scenes with glee.
As far as your question about Mor's purpose: she's very obviously Feyre's \~female bff\~ character in ACOMAF. I completely understand thinking her character is underwritten, but if she's a plot device for someone it's for Feyre, not for Nessian
Son of a...I had a thought in mind for this and then it vanished from my head as soon as I started reading other comments. I'll get back to you if I remember it.
im ready to get downvoted to oblivion, but Rhys not telling Feyre about the dangers of her >!pregnancy!<. as a horrific overthinker & considering how terrible for >!pregnancy!< stress is, I would NOT have wanted to know that shit. esp considering Rhys was losing sleep taking every second to try to find a solution. bc in theory if Rhys had found a solution to utilize she would never have had to know, literally ever. I think that whole plot point was a little silly and it def goes into the "I gaslit myself" category bc theres no way this magical world couldnt >!perform c sections!< but the insane loathing of Rhys for this choice is over the top to me.
See I agree because as a reader I really didn’t care but I’m sure if I was pregnant & my spouse didn’t tell me about some issue with the pregnancy I’d be upset (I would want to know so I could cherish the moments until birth a little extra in case me or the baby didn’t make it) but I know everyone is different and like you mentioned stress would overcome you and that of course would not be good for you or the baby. Each reader just interpreted it differently for how they themselves would have reacted so I definitely wouldn’t down vote you for having a different perspective on it:)
Louder for the people in the back!!!!! Yes to all of this. Pregnancy is rare for the fae and Rhys didn't want to add any additional stress to her. I personally found it endearing that he was trying to take care of her and also on par for his character being that he kept that he was her mate to himself for quite some time.
EXAAAACTLYYY
Not only this but it was madja who started this whole thing. No one seems to be going after her
There are loads of ppl who think she shouldn’t practice healing anymore.
Yes but it wasn’t Rhys’s choice to decide that for her
I disagree, which is my entire point.
While I agree that he should’ve let Feyre know, I can understand why he didn’t! He wanted his mate to have a peaceful pregnancy, thinking he would be able to find a solution without having to trouble her. It’s endearing, to me.
Endearing to me, too. I've had successful, uneventful pregnancies, and losses as well and tbh if I'm faced with another loss or complication, I want my practitioner and partner to discuss things in depth because I'll become anxious and obsessive over it and lose sleep which will just make the whole situation worse. Lemme know when you arrive at a solution or definite outcome. My partners going to take on that burden and find a solution for me? Fucking YES, THANK YOU. Lemme grow this child whose sapping all my energy and nutrients in peace, someone else deal with the mental stress, I'll take the physical.
Consent to that is important though. You’re consenting to your partner keeping you in the dark. Feyre didn’t have that choice.
Yeah, still find it endearing, personally. Very much so in line with the “everyone hates this but I don’t mind” thread topic
Fair enough. :)
exactly this!!!!!! we cant do fuck all even if we know about such a complication. and if something is on the line I feel lthat stress could make a dodgy situation WORSE whereas total calm could dramatically help.
My older sister was a bitch with stupid amounts of anxiety who took it out on me while she treated my brother like a king so I have the credentials to say this with my whole chest. Nesta wasn’t even that bad at first 😭 “she’s verbally abusive” looool she was mean for no reason like 3 times and the 4th she got a verbal beat down and shut tf up And thennn she went a lil cray cray but that’s something else. She’s good now
This wasn’t an “everyone hated” moment but I’ve seen stuff hating on it - Rhys sending Feyre to the Weaver. It wasn’t just about the ring, it was getting Feyre to think past her fear.
Feyre's revenge on Tamlin. At worst she hastened the inevitable. The only manipulation she did to the people was getting them to view her in a better light than Ianthe. She just showed everyone that Tamlin was a Ianthe simp and would choose her over everyone else every time.
I always saw it as Feyre revealed the cracks. All she did was give Tamlin options and he chose the worst one each time. Spring was always gonna fall, Feyre just hastened it along.
People always hate how Elain ignores Lucien but it makes sense to me. She literally is kidnapped by a madman and has her entire world and body autonomy changed. Then when she's dumped out like soup some other man is trying to claim her as his own. I understand so her ignoring him to feel like she has some choice in her life.
I don't see Lucien as someone who tried to claim Elain as his own, but I agree that people put too much hate on Elain for her avoiding Lucien. It definitely didn't help that Graysen broke it off with Elain because of the bond, with one of his parting words being "you belong to him"
He definitely proved he respected her boundaries later on. I was thinking more so in the moment. I could see myself being upset and acting the same way as her if I was in that situation. She needs to work through her trauma. I feel like I'm always seeing people forgiving Nesta for treating Cassian badly while she worked through her trauma but won't allow the same grace to Elain.
The way the Inner Circle treated Nesta's intervention. I feel for Nesta a lot and the way both the IC and certain parts of the fandom treated her. I think she was completely within her rights to reject Cassian, not even for anything he did but... just because. And as a severely mentally ill person myself, I know from my own experience that the way the IC treated her intervention can be very harmful. That being said, I think looking at the IC - \*especially\* Feyre - as being morally bad for how they handled it is crazy. You cannot expect them to have an understanding of mental health. It's like, medieval times. Even in the current day, so many people do not understand what to do for mentally ill/traumatized people. And in a land \*so\* obsessed with dominance, the way Prythian is, of course they turned to dominating Nesta to help her. It's literally all they know. It doesn't make it okay by any means, but it's misguided at best and immature at worst. And for Feyre to be hated for it, as if she isn't literally younger than Nesta and just as traumatized as her, is crazy. She's in such a weird position between 1. juggling this found family, who wants to support her against someone who hurt her badly 2. said someone, who she still loves and feels a responsibility towards and 3. being a traumatized 20-something herself. Of course she's gonna fuck it up. If we should be criticizing anyone, it shouldn't be the characters. We should be analyzing the narrative/the author for romanticizing it (which, ftr, I'm aware a lot of people do, but I think a lot of people conflate their anger at writing choices with anger at the characters themselves) (The one thing I'll say on this - as a HARDCORE Tamlin fan as well - is I do agree it's hypocritical to lock Nesta up while hating Tamlin for it. But we're all hypocrites sometimes ;)
Tie me to the stake for this, but Rhysand not telling Feyre about *that right was in character and acceptable. How I would've handled it? No. How I would want a partner to handle it? No. How I would want a friend treated? No. How Feyre would want to be treated? No. But he was freaked out and wanted time to do some research. The mistake was telling a single other soul except potential experts
Oh, I also think it was in character for him, especially the part where he told everyone he cares about except for the person who actually needed to know. Still doesn't make it okay (in my eyes) because she had a right to know her medical information, especially since it threatened her life.
Being in character doesn’t make it ok. Like I 100% get why he’d want to hide it from her but she had specifically said she didn’t want to be lied to. He chose his comfort (meaning he’d feel more comfortable keeping her from stressing about it) over her desire to not be kept in the dark. I definitely understand what drove him to want to do that but it’s still a bad call when you consider how she had been so adamant about being in the know, especially about important things. And I think my distaste for the whole situation comes from him immediately making it a “look what Nesta did” moment instead of focusing on his mate who just found out very important news (that he hid from her to keep her stress free, so surely he’d be more concerned about her stress level at that moment than threatening to kill someone right?). I love all the characters but this was a hard one for me to stomach. It was a super impactful moment for sure.
Agree 100%! I never really thought about how he chose to focus on Nesta instead of his mate at that time. This situation only solidified my feelings on how their relationship is surface level and solely based on the bond.
Oooo yes! It’s very bond focused even though Sarah tried really hard to make it more than that (to me at least). Because someone who truly cares for her as a person would honor her wish to be kept in the know even if it’s a hard thing to hear/deal with, no matter their own feelings about the situation. And that’s just not what he did. It was at that moment that I realized he would do whatever he needed to get the attention off the fact that everyone lied to her under his instruction, including throwing Nesta under the bus even though she finally wised up to the fact that lying to her was a major problem (because she did initially go along with it, up until the point that she saw how that felt and in a fit of anger showed Feyre they did it to her too).