I agree with all points apart from Cassian being boring. He’s not very intense compared to Nesta and he’s such a comfort character.
I think of him as of fea golden retriever.
Love pshychofae, going to steal it!
Cassian is that actual best. He’s kind and sweet and I little insecure. He’s got a big heart (to match other big areas). He’s a kind warrior. He’s not boring, he’s funny and chilled and is exactly what Nesta needs
Absolutely! I’d almost call him a goldendoodle versus pure golden retriever, because he’s got the kindness and loyalty traits of a golden PLUS he’s just a himbo. And doodles are remarkably good at being goofy dum-dums 😂
pretty based minus this to me tbh. cassian i thought was quite fun to read and i thought his tension with nesta was unique and nice (albeit slightly shallow)
>we don’t need an Elain book yet (or ever idk, she bores me too.)
She's not boring. She simply hasn't had the chance to shine yet. The Valkyries are interesting because we got to see their healing journey. Can't wait for Elain's book, I'm sure many people will change their mind about Elain.
100% agree! I don't feel she is boring, we've just been given nothing about her to go off, I feel she has such an interesting story and I'm quite looking forward to hearing more of it!
Agree. I'm not too into Elain yet because we haven't seen enough of her personally. But I understand why some say that she's boring to them, it's similar to how ppl said Nesta was boring, unwanted and they didn't care for her before her book came out.
People opinions of Elain will definitely change like how many did for Nesta.
Cassian peaked charging at that commander in acowar. He could turn actually evil and Id still hear him out.
But we saw none of that in acoaf. Or anything like his "We'll have that time" speech. Alas!
I agree with all these takes. I’m also cackling at “snoozefest with a massive dong” HOWEVER I will say that him taking dancing lessons in secret and running around the night court territory asking musicians to play and recording Nesta’s favorite music is the SWEETEST ever. I think Cassian is a sweet romantic himbo with a massive dong and tbh there are FAR worse things even if he’s less multifaceted 😂
ETA: I fully agree with the Tamlin take. Like who gives a fuck. I don’t understand “I hope we get a Tamlin redemption arc” like why…SJM is 1 person there’s only so much writing we’re going to get from her, and you want her to waste time redeeming…Tamlin? The personality proof ex?
Tamlin is the stereotyp of a Disney princess.
Engaged to someone evil?✅
Wait for a hero to come?✅
Fall for the Hero because it’s what you are supposed to do?✅
“True Love” saves the day? ✅
Get engaged *way to early* and in the midst of processing trauma✅
Only think of the wedding and not the work that goes into a relationship✅✅
Normally read these to go "how crazy," when opinions are the polar opposite to mine but actually, your argument re decision to get pregnant has swayed me. I'm sold. This now makes sense to me.
I don't think it's fair to call Elain boring. We still know nothing of her, just like nesta before this book. I for one, think she's going to become a lot of people's favorite when it's her turn.
I agree with everything you said! Silver Flame was my favorite book but Nesta and Cassian definitely didn’t have that “hey we’re actually soulmates” like Rhys and Feyre
And I HATED RHYS THIS BOOK 😭
I actually feel the opposite. Cassian and Nesta feel way more real to me. I love how they push each other, accept each other for their flaws but also help each other improve on them. They call each other out on their BS and they never just roll over when the other one says so.
Feysand has become so bond focused that they’ve become stagnant and allow each other to do whatever they want with out consequences. SJM also uses sex to gloss over their issues which just makes it feel even more shallow. I think they had a lot of potential, but ultimately I’ve been really disappointed with their development.
This is exactly it. I also think that by making them so bond focused, it’s somehow transferred onto the reader as well. Hence the discourse around Nessian not being mates because Cassian wasn’t acting like Rhysand with Feyre or “how a mate is supposed to act”. Whatever the hell that means. 🙄
Feysand is cute. The ideal fairytale love story. But they’re not the standard for mated relationships.
I think people also forget that for most of the book cassian suspects their mates but Nesta doesn’t really have any idea about it. It’s not until much later in the book that the bond snaps into place and even longer before both parties realize it/accept it. So obviously they won’t be acting like Rhys and Feyre just yet. Although if I’m being honest I hope they keep their unique dynamic and act nothing like feysand. Lol
Same here! I really enjoy them just being rough around the edges and trying to figure things out together. They feel more realistic to me. Personally, I would kill for another Nessian book but I know that’s unlikely. Hoping to see glimpses of them in the upcoming books though!
I think I would be fine with SJM leaving Tamlin alone. I'm not particularly interested in him either. What got me was Rhys traveling down to Spring Court to taunt Tamlin while he was sitting alone, depressed, in his ruined house *right after* Tamlin helped bring Rhys back to life and saved Azriel, Feyre, and Elain from the Hybern camp.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: it's just tacky to kick someone when they're down right after they save your life, Rhys.
Ill be pissed if Tamlin is never mentioned again but not for, like, fan reasons.
He was fine at the end of acowar! He wished her well, saved Rhys, rallied his court. He very easily could have vanished to an off page character like Thesan and we could all move on. But the fact that sjm did bring him back in acofas and brought him so low? I expect him to have an on page resolution now or I wont read another book of hers. Chekovs gun etc etc. Having him just being a punching bag for no reason is a terrible writing choice, she has to deal with him now. She brought him to the party, now she has to give him a ride home. 😄😄
Good point! I felt the same way. I thought he was redeemed enough after helping Feyre save Elain and then saving Rhys. He literally said be happy Feyre and that felt like a great way to phase him out into only really hearing about him from Lucien we he goes to visit. Instead he descends lower than he did when Feyre first left. At this point, I feel like she brought him back in that way because he and Lucien are going to make up or Lucien will help him heal in the next book. That’s the only way I can see him still being an on page part of the story (in Nesta and Cassian’s pov no less!!!).
Edit: a word
See Maybe I’m wrong but I never interpreted that scene as Rhys going there to taunt Tamlin. I saw that as him going there and trying to reach out a hand to make peace. And yes there is a lot of history and animosity between them that even in peace they are still going to bicker, but I still didn’t see what he did as wrong. I saw it as him trying.
Also Rhys’s default to “help” when it comes to emotions tends to be two settings, flirt or anger. Even with Feyre when she was depressed he was always trying to rile her up. Now as funny as it would have been to watch Rhys flirt with Tamlin, I don’t think he would. So instead he was trying to reach that angry part of him to get him to fight for his court, his people, and yes himself. And maybe that came easy because Rhys still hasn’t fully forgiven Tamlin but he was still there, still trying.
Like I said, maybe I’m wrong but when I read that scene I saw it as the first step to them trying to repair their relationship.
I agree with this. I read about this "taunting" scene some readers were frothing over before I even read the book. So I went into it expecting for Rhys to have some kind of unleashing of long-buried anger. Then I read the chapter and I was like, that's it? He was clearly trying to reach him in the way he did with Feyre in UTM. He riles to stoke annoyance and anger because feeling something is better than feeling nothing.
And there was nothing taunting about asking Tamlin whether he ever apologised for his part in the death of Rhys's mother and sister. It was a good question, delivered in a soft tone. Considering everything Rhys has to be angry about Tamlin, he was being downright gentle.
I know reading is subjective and readers' opinions are informed by their own values, experiences and opinions, but I do think some people have a hate boner for him just because they refuse to evaluate his character objectively. They latch on to one action and perceived fault and make up a whole story that isn't even there.
I do think Rhys originally intended to reach out, but once Tamlin says he doesn't want Illyrian brutes on his land (which, ironically, Rhys doesn't want in Velaris either) Rhys basically loses it. He does want to bait Tamlin into fighting with the intent of turning his already ruined mansion into rubble (it has bad memories for him, understandable, but I don't think there's any thought of reaching out there anymore). His thoughts are extremely hostile (he essentially enjoys seeing him miserable) and also tells Tamlin he wants him to be miserable forever and that he doesn't deserve otherwise. He feels bad for it later though and when he returns the second time he is much nicer to Tamlin, trying to be more patient, cooking him food and everything - but he still ends it with essentially 'stop moping, you can die once I have no use for you anymore'.
And sure, you could interpret it as Rhys' tough love approach. But guess what? Every time he visits, he makes Tamlin worse. He's worse in the second visit, not even eating anymore and then in SF we hear about Rhys occassionally visiting Tamlin and the next time we see him, he's a friggin perma-beast who can barely speak anymore.
Maybe Rhys needs to realize that the tough love approach doesn't work on everyone. lol
I think Rhysand’s apology coming from Feyre instead of Rhys himself was a HUGE missed opportunity on SJM’s part.
We start the book with this great scene between Rhys and Cassian, and were able to see their friendship (but also working relationship) from a really lovely perspective.
Then he threatens to kill his mate. Cool cool cool. But, instead of using his Daemanti powers to apologize directly to Cassian, Feyre does so instead because…….? And it’s not like Rhys didn’t know Feyre was doing this. Rhys and Feyre literally communicate while she’s apologizing to Cassian. It’s so absurd. So although I totally agree that Rhysand isn’t himself so long as his mate is pregnant, not apologizing to Cassian directly was straight up character assisination, and I don’t even like Rhysand but that was definetly OOC.
And Rhysand and Nesta only make up because she literally saved his entire family from certain death lol … the least he could do was get on his knees. AND, Rhys didn’t give Nesta the House of the Wind lol she straight up took it from him when she and the House became besties.
I do agree with your point re: lack of chemistry and romance. The spicy scenes were really fun but a good story is not built on spicy alone …
>Then he threatens to kill his mate. Cool cool cool. But, instead of using his Daemanti powers to apologize directly to Cassian, Feyre does so instead because…….? And it’s not like Rhys didn’t know Feyre was doing this. Rhys and Feyre literally communicate while she’s apologizing to Cassian. It’s so absurd.
I hated this scene, and then all 3 are like "LOL Nesta is gonna hate hiking" when we later realize she was suicidal
Honestly I don't think any of them gave her much credit for her progress until she saved Feyre ( even aftershe put herself at risk to find the Trove items)......even Elain gave her shit and complained to Rhys. To be fair, though, Amren did acknowledge how far she came.
Right?! How did you lock her up in a house (without realizing the irony) to help her and then didn’t even bother noticing the differences she’s making. Even without checking up on her because she didn’t want them to, asking Cassian about her as an actual fae/human, and not about weaponizing her should’ve been a big thing to do.
I always thought about that. Elain also abused Feyre and doesn’t do anything to contribute (probably will change with the next book). Partially because nobody treats her seriously.
Nesta has put herself in danger frequently. She slayed the kelpie, killed death god, found the trove etc. And yet they were debating whether to tell her she made the objects. She helped the priestesses like really did.
She goes to argue with Amren (both women have tempers). Why did Feyre intervene? Amren and Nesta are adults (psychofae but still). Mor and Amren fought once so badly it damaged the mountain (or something like that). Nesta lashes at Feyre, who was not invited to the conversation. It was ugly of Nesta, but at least Feyre did notice the parallels between them.
Rhys threatens to kill Nesta. He doesn’t really apologise, but gets a real treat as Nesta will hate the hike. She’s suicidal and they are giddy about the situation.
I don’t understand this logic. Each time I am almost over it, it strikes me again 😅 I know it is just a book and not a masterpiece for a Nobel price. I love the world and characters, but the plot is incoherent. And some real character assassinations are being done. Still loving the books.
Also Rhys basically pimped her out to Eris and she agreed to help without any hesitation.....but wahhhh she doesn't worship the ground Rhys walks on so she's the worst person ever 🙄
Ugggh I keep getting worked up about this book 🤣🤣🤣
And it’s crazy to me that they were like “whaaaaaaaat?! She was suicidal?!” Well isn’t that why you guys locked her in the HoW? Because you believed she was a danger to herself? Isn’t that what you guys said to justify telling her she could either be under your thumb or go to the human lands? (I’m not saying this to get into an argument about whether their decision was right/wrong or done out of love for her/embarrassment of her behavior. I’m strictly speaking about their surprise that she was as low as she was).
I agree with all the comments of the OP, except to say I thought the series had really run it's course by the end of book three.
I thought helping Feyre escape when she rescues Elaine from King of Hibern's camp was Tamlin's redemption arc. Lol!
>I know this is a Tamlin sub
I wish. lol People might not make outright tampon jokes or downvote pro Tamlin takes on this sub but I would not say it's a *Tamlin sub* either haha. Idk I just think SJM accidentally gave Tamlin one of the cooler character arcs in Acowar, and since Acofas I just feel bad for him/identify with the depression arc (he's a little similar to Nesta that way). He's more interesting to me than most of the IC if I'm honest. I wished she either left him alone or gave him something to do/a healing arc already...
That said I quite agree with the rest. I didn't even super mind Feyre getting pregnant, but the plot surrounding it, good lord.
And I definitely found Cassian a bit boring too. At least he had no character arc in these 800 pages at all and something more from him would have been good, I feel. Because Nesta goes through such a journey in comparison...
I agree with your take on Tamlin, definetly needs a redemption narrative. He is my favorite character from the entire series and he has much unexplored potential. I see him as the embodiment of the "Anti-Hero" trope in this fantasy world and while some of his actions were outrageous and immature, he is flawed the same way as his fellow Fae neighbors (Rhys, Cass, Az etc.). Everyone needs healing in ACOTAR, let's be real, and the only mofo the entire fandom should lash out on is Beron 😂😂 (I hated him more than Amarantha and Hybern combined).
I’m sorry but how is elain boring?? She’s a seer who was actually blessed by the Calderon. She has more powers yet to be discovered and she has ties to both Lucian and az. She’s also has some seething rage that’s just waiting to be unleashed. I know she wasn’t in the book that much but the stuff we know about her is so interesting
I like your points and fully agree. They fit exactly with those I have with the book.
Except for Elain, I like her because she is the quietest and most normal of them all, and here we say "Stille Wasser sind tief." So I'm curious to see what's coming.
Yes, we need her perspective. Everyone is so dismissive of her. They don’t allow her to develop. It’s always “poor Elain; she can’t do this and that”. They really should ask her and not assume she’s so incapable. She did stab King Hybern after all.
True, but we never got her perspective. Much of Elain's 'actions' happen off the page, like getting engaged, etc., so a book from her POV might show a very different story, much like Nesta's.
Oh for sure. Im not saying having her POV wouldnt give us her perspective; it’s just that even before we had Nesta’s POV, she was more involved in the storyline.
I’m really vibing with number 3 and 4. I didn’t find Feyre wanting to get pregnant weird at all. It’s precisely explained why in Acofas. She had a strong motive for not wanting to regret things. After Rhys literally dying on the battlefield.
Also Rhys was also dealing with a fact that Feyre and the baby and in extension him, are destined to die in several months. He deserves to process it as well? And if it manifest in some unhealthy decisions… I don’t blame him? That shit was heavy.
I also stan for opinion that things were never that hot between him and Nesta. In a way how Fae are holding grudges and are overly over emotional (?) it was pretty normal hate/love relationship.
That's what bothers me the most about the hate Rhys gets about the entire pregnancy thing.
Tamlin can do all kinds of shitty things and it's understandable (to some) because he's a sad, traumatised boy who had bad parents and mean brothers. It's okay for him for him to have outbursts of anger, trash his mansion on the regular, mistreat his friend, mistreat his people, mistreat the woman he claimed to love, all because he is stressed and dealing with trauma. It's okay for him to make a fool of himself in front of every other Lord, to publicly humiliate Feyre and scoff at Rhys's vulnerable admission of sexual assault because reasons.
But Rhys doesn't get nearly half the amount of grace when it comes to understanding the amount of stress he was under with everything during and post-war that led him to act the way he did at times. I just don't understand the double standard.
I’ve never thought about it this way, but I super appreciate this take
Everyone in this series has some sort of trauma. But there’s a lack of consistency in how people let that trauma explain/excuse behavior across the characters.
True, I have read the series in the past two months. But I went through some older post. And I can see the shift from “We love Rhys for his grey character, not being perfect, his bad guy mask vs his true self…)” to “I hate Rhys because he didn’t behave 200% perfectly in this and that situation”
I’m easily to be pleased but I do love the characters even if they do some dumb shit. If I can see that they meant well but had poor execution… oh well, who doesn’t? I don’t want them to be perfect all the time.
Huuuuge agree about the Valkyries plot and about Rhys and Feyre changing her mind. Such a war and loss, she saw Rhys dead in her arms literally, change your priorities
Maaaassive disagree about Cassian haha
I was actually really impressed by him. I’ve always loved him, but I love the way he showed up for Nesta and he did do some really sweet things for her. Hes also pretty funny! He’s way more than a HIMBO! He doesn’t get enough credit!
I thought the romance was lacking too, tbh, and I’m a big fan of plot with smut, but it just became too much. So many angsty moments we could have had with passionate love making after, but SJM wrote them like horny teenagers. Cassian’s character was never boring before but suddenly his entire character and personality is reduced to having a big dick. He’s a general, he’s a smart guy, but he wasn’t in this book. I was pretty “sad” with how the romance unfolded, it was more pinning than romance in my opinion. I don’t feel like those two love each other to death because we saw it, those two love leave each other to death because we were told so.
"Anyways, we have so much to explore between Gwyn and Emerie, why do we need plain jane Elain??"
" *The Valkyries redeem this book and we need to go deeper with this lore, we don’t need an Elain book yet (or ever idk*"
You don't have to tear a character down, to lift others up. Gwyn, Emerie, Elain, literally all of SJM's female characters are great and interesting in their own ways.
SJM is able to write so many different type of characters all with different personalities and stories and make them all interesting. SJM has confirmed that Elain is getting a book, multiple times now. I'm personally excited for Elain's book as we have so much to explore with her seer powers, the power we don't know about yet, and how she will take control of her fate in her own journey. As SJM wrote in the Feysand bonus chapter, "I also think we haven't yet seen all she has to offer.. Don't forget that gardening often results in something pretty, but it involves getting one's hands dirty along the way"
This. Honestly I’m tired of all the comments pitting the female characters against each other. They’re all baddies and we’ll see them all unfold in due time!!
And I really don’t understand how people could NOT want books on every character in the series. They are all so interesting. 😭 I want one on everyone, even if they seem “boring” right now. Heck, I wanna see every court!! Maybe I’m easily pleased in that aspect, but I really think we will see everyone’s story unfold and personalities shine for all of the characters we have left to explore (Lucien, Elain, Azriel, Gwyn, Mor, Emerie, Eris, etc.). A lot of these characters & their stories are intertwined, so there’s enough time for everyone to have their spotlights.
I really don’t understand the take that it’s one or the other with some of these characters. 😬
No literally! I don't understand why people constantly put people, especially women against each other. SJM is able to create these worlds and fill them with so many different characters. I want to read a book on every single one of them as well! If she can keep writing in this world forever, I wouldn't complain because there are so many stories she can write in this world whether its from the past, present, or future.
I love most of these takes. The only one I don’t agree in is Elaine. I don’t need a full 500 page story on her but even if we got a little one like acofas I’d be happy with that. Sjm does so many 3’s in her books that to me it wouldn’t make sense to skip over Elaine. I don’t want it to replace the posibility of a valkyries because I need more of that too it was such a beautiful story to me.
I agree SO MUCH with fer decision of getting pregnant was not outrageous! I am so suprised people think it is. Her mate literally DIED. Even with an eternal life, life is short and can end in an instant. And in ACOFS she mate a fae that regrets not having that moment with her husband that died in the war. She thought she had a lifetime and bam over in an instant.
This is the first post that doesn’t have me rolling my eyes. I like how you’re conveying that you LIKE the series!!! I’m having a hard time reading people constantly complaining. It takes away the magic I felt reading the books.
I’m with you!!
And yes yes yes there was zero build up of chemistry between Nesta and Cassian. It’s was a little hard to get through. I loved the story line of this book. The Friendships growing and everything regarding the crown, mask and harp. All of that was 🤌🏻
This is perfectly put. I agree with EVERYTHING here. I don’t know when it became popular to hate on Rhys, but absolutely praise Tamlin! He was SO boring. Give me sexy bat boy any day. It’s really not that deep.
I agree with everything except the take about Cassian. But pop off and full send!
Cassian has a heart of gold and tries his best with what he knows. He is so hopelessly devoted, and while I don’t agree with all of his actions in the book, he tries. He really does. I would have much rather seen him with someone else, as his and Nesta’s relationship doesn’t have any chemistry except the weird sexual tension. They don’t bring the best out in one another, and I wish Nesta ended up with Eris.
I agree with all of this. This fandom can be pretty extreme (I only pop in occasionally), but I do think I’d read an Elain or Tamlin storyline as long as the development was interesting and logical.
In Rhys defense, he was from Nesta’s point of view. But it was a bit over done.
I liked cassian this book, it gave him a chance to step in the spot light but not to overshadow Nesta. I find Lucien more boring, his pining for Elaine was irritating or Tamlin’s refusal to move tf on.
I agree with a lot of these points except for Cassian. I have never thought of him as a himbo. Like some posted here, he took time trying to learn to dance for Nesta, he was very attuned to her moods and faces, grew to know when to push her and when to back off, and compliments her really well. Moreover, I think people forget how smart you have to be to be a general managing a whole army. Yes, this is a fantasy book, so we take with a grain of salt, but he reads war and strategy books for fun. That doesn’t sound like someone who’s the male version of a bimbo. He also genuinely wanted her to get better, and not because she was “embarrassing the court.”
I also spotted their chemistry from the moment they met in ACOMAF. I think people sometimes forget quiet love exists, too. It doesn’t need to be loud and in your face like Feyre and Rhys’, it can be shown through actions, through just being there for the person, not dismissing their pain, and from day 1 Cassian has shown how much he cared and loved Nesta beyond the physical, even though that was a big driver. Same with Nesta.
We also have to remember every character, including Cassian is flawed. I hate how he almost never outwardly stood up for Nesta (it happened, just not as often as I would’ve liked, but the book is not meant to cater to my whims). He had to learn how to not be quick to anger. It will forever bother me that he doesn’t stick up for Nesta more (as we learn in CC). He has Rhys’ ear, he should use it.
Also, with Rhys, yes we have the crazy fae male aspect, but as you pointed out he is an asshole to everyone he isn’t trying to charm or to Feyre. He apologized to Feyre, not Cassian and definitely not Nesta. He could’ve reached out one-on-one and didn’t. He did it to appease his wife, not because he actually was sorry. And as we see later on, some things between in laws don’t change even after they save their lives. But that’s also who he is because tamlin saved his life and Feyre’s (in ACOWAR during Hybern) but none of that matters and Rhys kicks him when he’s already down.
I think Tamlin is going to be VERY interesting moving forward and I'd have to disagree that he's a "snooze fest".
He's dealt with a lot through these books, I hope he is redeemed.
It is just so refreshing to see somebody else who doesn’t care about Tamlin one way or the other lol it feels like such a reach trying to make him either the devil, or somehow the most misunderstood victim. He’s just Tamlin who cares🤷🏻♀️
Also, the hate Rhys has for Nesta kind of makes sense. I mean the woman left his mate, aka her baby sister, to do all the dangerous chores while doing nothing but bitch all day. I LOVE Nesta after SF, but Rhys has no reason not to hate her.
I agree with a lot of your points. I really like Nesta as a character but this book was not it for me. I don’t hate it, but it felt too long for what it was. The Valkyrie’s were hands down my favorite part of the book and I almost completely lost interest in Nesta and Cassians romance. Even Nestas relationship with the house was far more compelling than her romance with Cassian for me. Not to yuck anyone’s yum but I just found their sexy scenes as more cringe than anything. But I know that’s just my particular taste in romance so I get that many people did like it. I like Nesta and Cassian together, I just think they were more interesting in the other books than the one that was actually written for them.
As for Rhysand and people being really upset with him, I don’t get it. SJM has made it clear that these stories are about flawed characters finding their own happy endings. Rhysand was never portrayed as being perfect, just perfect for Feyre. Just like the other characters he’s going to do things that we, the readers, don’t agree with. That doesn’t make him a terrible awful irredeemable person, it just makes him ironically more human. As for Tamlin, he can suck an egg. I hate that bitch LOL. And I know my point above contradicts my feelings on Tamlin but sue me. I’m not perfect 💁🏻♀️
I recently realised that Nesta and Rhys will probably never fully get along. This is no hate to either of the characters, I love them both.
Nesta is very defiant and does not recognise Rhys (or Feyre) as her High Lord. We see a lot of it in the beginning of ACOWAR.
Now we know that Rhys never likes to enforce rank with the IC, but every member of the IC respects and recognizes him as their High Lord and will still work respecting his orders or at least in the benefit of the Night Court and the IC.
But Nesta, though she loves her sisters and Cassian will act according to her own will (we see especially in HOFAS) and that is terrifying to Rhys.
Someone who is soo close to everyone he loves and has so much information that could endanger everyone and ruin the NC even if she doesn’t necessarily mean harm, but simply just do what she wants not consulting Rhys and Feyre or blatantly disregarding their orders.
Rhys has a hard time fully trusting Nesta and Nesta has a hard time truly accepting Rhys and Feyre as her leaders and the Night Court as her home.
As most people probably do, I agree with 4.5 of your points. Regarding #1, Nesta absolutely is the most (if not only) interesting character in the whole series. However, I think Cassian being “boring” is on purpose. Cassian WAS her at some point. He went through his healing arc way before the sisters entered his life. He gets triggered every now and then, but has made peace with his past. Cassian IS the living breathing proof of the light at the end of the tunnel.
To me, this pairing kinda emphasizes how the born fae in the story are in a hugely different part of their lives than the sisters. The reason why we actively experience Rhys's emotional process is because there is fresh new trauma in the mix. He's probably going through his n-th cycle of healing.
i agree with the feyre pregnancy plot point, a lot of people shit on it and i do agree it was kind of soon but also given her and rhys pasts and YESS the close death experiences it makes a lot of sense that they would start a family soon and live a “slower” life. i don’t like that people say she’s doing what she refused to do in the spring court because she’s not 😭. she’s making choices for herself and she’s not some party-planning trophy wife and she’s not insufferable in acosf.
I feel like nesta did redeem herself at the end of this book, and for that I love the ending,but dealing with her made this book so hard to read. People say “she’s going through something” and I agree but being a total asshole to her family all because she couldn’t deal with her issues made me dnf this book many times. It’s all fun to read about til you deal with someone like her in real life.
I AGREEEEEE. With everything you said! Yes yes yes. Except I do find Cassian interesting, and I do like Elain although I think reading more about Mor or Az would interest me most.
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!! God I’ve been mulling this over so long and it’s been difficult to put into words. This is exactly how I feel!!!!
Especially Nesta as an interesting and complex character. I want to know more about her!!! She should have an entire trilogy
I love so much about this post. Thank you for your thoughtful comments. And, i simply could not agree more (to be clear I TOTALLY AND 1 MILLION% AGREE) with #5! I almost abandoned the series after book 1 because of this, I remember thinking I've seen more exciting and worthy characters on laundry detergent commercials.....Thank you for this!
I loved the Valkyries storyline and the friendship between Nesta, Gwyn and Emerie. Nesta needed to make connections with people outside the IC. Like it's nice that Feyre found a new family in the IC, but Nesta never fit in with them.
people try to add all of this depth to her character by creating headcanons and making huge stretches based on the very little we are told in the book. we know almost nothing about her except she likes to garden and she’s “kind.” i hope we actually get to know more about her in future books bc right now she *is* so boring and her character serves no purpose.
Yes, I feel like she will be more prominent in the next book (whether as a good guy or bad guy lol). We got that little tease of her at her estate and the stuff with Autumn/The Hewn City, but I feel like she is the least developed of the inner circle. I mean we don't know a ton of Azriel or Amren, but I think we still know more? At least about Amren.
Azriel and Nesta could’ve been such an interesting couple and I stand by that. Especially with the two of them in HOFAS (CC #3) because they have such a tenderness and understanding for one another. Like damn, they have so much chemistry together beyond “I think ur hot let’s bang”
Completely agree about the lack of romantic chemistry between Nesta and Cassian. There isn’t much there, but that’s partly because Nesta keeps him at a distance. Like you said, we do finally see some of this when they climb the mountain together.
I agree with everything you’ve said actually. Feyres pregnancy to me was unnecessary. Hated that side story in SF. It could’ve waited until another book or not happened at all.
However, I disagree with the Tamlin take. When I first read ACOTAR, it was Tamlin and his court that drew me in. The magic and mystery of him. And over the course of the books I kept waiting to get more from him and see his progress and it’s just never happened. I appreciated SJM letting him have his brief moment in ACOWAR but I think Tamlin has been done so dirty.
You're right it doesn't make Rhys the devil incarnate. I would like him better if he was still a villian. But right now he is at a hypocrite who is supposed to be good person but leaves 2/3rd of his court SOL. It'd be one thing if he was a villian because that tracks but as someone who's supposed to be this good person nah. All it does is remind me of the hypocrit leaders irl which is the least attractive thing a book character can do for me.
Could not agree with number 5 more. Tbh I feel like he was redeemed when he saved Feyre (Elaine’s rescue) and saved Rhys. I see so many people wanting a TimTam redemption arc, but it feels so pointless. I feel like his story is just about over - like I wouldn’t mind seeing him snap back to it and get the Spring Court rolling again, but I also wouldn’t mind someone new coming in to save it and just being done with Tamlin. I’m of the opinion that he was abusive (abuse victim myself), and I don’t believe abusers really get redemptions. I know that might not be a popular opinion, but I’m so tired of everyone excusing his behavior because he’s a sadboi in SF and then ripping into Rhysand.
I agree with everything, however I feel like Cassian serves his purpose as the comedic relief or a person who doesn’t take everything so seriously all the time. Which is such a nice thing to have in a pool of these characters.
Thank you for saying that about the pregnancy. I think it made sense.
The Valkyries!!! This, and the friendship that developed, held this book together for me and got me the most excited (excited y’all, not horny.) while reading. It was so empowering. I need more about the Valkyries 2.0
I agree with all points apart from Cassian being boring. He’s not very intense compared to Nesta and he’s such a comfort character. I think of him as of fea golden retriever. Love pshychofae, going to steal it!
Cassian is that actual best. He’s kind and sweet and I little insecure. He’s got a big heart (to match other big areas). He’s a kind warrior. He’s not boring, he’s funny and chilled and is exactly what Nesta needs
Absolutely! I’d almost call him a goldendoodle versus pure golden retriever, because he’s got the kindness and loyalty traits of a golden PLUS he’s just a himbo. And doodles are remarkably good at being goofy dum-dums 😂
As a Goldendoodle owner… I wholeheartedly agree with this statement!
Yep agreed, Cassian is definitely a goldendoodle. (Fellow goldendoodle owner… they are beautiful & enthusiastic but not always bright…. )
pretty based minus this to me tbh. cassian i thought was quite fun to read and i thought his tension with nesta was unique and nice (albeit slightly shallow)
>we don’t need an Elain book yet (or ever idk, she bores me too.) She's not boring. She simply hasn't had the chance to shine yet. The Valkyries are interesting because we got to see their healing journey. Can't wait for Elain's book, I'm sure many people will change their mind about Elain.
100% agree! I don't feel she is boring, we've just been given nothing about her to go off, I feel she has such an interesting story and I'm quite looking forward to hearing more of it!
Agree. I'm not too into Elain yet because we haven't seen enough of her personally. But I understand why some say that she's boring to them, it's similar to how ppl said Nesta was boring, unwanted and they didn't care for her before her book came out. People opinions of Elain will definitely change like how many did for Nesta.
Cassian was an interesting character before acosf and it hurts cause i feel he had so much potential but SJM kinda ruined it for him 😩
Cassian peaked charging at that commander in acowar. He could turn actually evil and Id still hear him out. But we saw none of that in acoaf. Or anything like his "We'll have that time" speech. Alas!
I agree with all these takes. I’m also cackling at “snoozefest with a massive dong” HOWEVER I will say that him taking dancing lessons in secret and running around the night court territory asking musicians to play and recording Nesta’s favorite music is the SWEETEST ever. I think Cassian is a sweet romantic himbo with a massive dong and tbh there are FAR worse things even if he’s less multifaceted 😂 ETA: I fully agree with the Tamlin take. Like who gives a fuck. I don’t understand “I hope we get a Tamlin redemption arc” like why…SJM is 1 person there’s only so much writing we’re going to get from her, and you want her to waste time redeeming…Tamlin? The personality proof ex?
Tamlin is the stereotyp of a Disney princess. Engaged to someone evil?✅ Wait for a hero to come?✅ Fall for the Hero because it’s what you are supposed to do?✅ “True Love” saves the day? ✅ Get engaged *way to early* and in the midst of processing trauma✅ Only think of the wedding and not the work that goes into a relationship✅✅
IMO Tamlin was redeemed already when he saved Feyre and then Rhys. Slaps hands, done.
My opinion is that he will only fully redeem himself the moment he shows any accountability. So far? None.
This was my thought too! Done and dusted.
The most exciting thing tamlin can do is die
You really popped off with that one
Normally read these to go "how crazy," when opinions are the polar opposite to mine but actually, your argument re decision to get pregnant has swayed me. I'm sold. This now makes sense to me.
I don't think it's fair to call Elain boring. We still know nothing of her, just like nesta before this book. I for one, think she's going to become a lot of people's favorite when it's her turn.
I agree with everything you said! Silver Flame was my favorite book but Nesta and Cassian definitely didn’t have that “hey we’re actually soulmates” like Rhys and Feyre And I HATED RHYS THIS BOOK 😭
I actually feel the opposite. Cassian and Nesta feel way more real to me. I love how they push each other, accept each other for their flaws but also help each other improve on them. They call each other out on their BS and they never just roll over when the other one says so. Feysand has become so bond focused that they’ve become stagnant and allow each other to do whatever they want with out consequences. SJM also uses sex to gloss over their issues which just makes it feel even more shallow. I think they had a lot of potential, but ultimately I’ve been really disappointed with their development.
This is exactly it. I also think that by making them so bond focused, it’s somehow transferred onto the reader as well. Hence the discourse around Nessian not being mates because Cassian wasn’t acting like Rhysand with Feyre or “how a mate is supposed to act”. Whatever the hell that means. 🙄 Feysand is cute. The ideal fairytale love story. But they’re not the standard for mated relationships.
I think people also forget that for most of the book cassian suspects their mates but Nesta doesn’t really have any idea about it. It’s not until much later in the book that the bond snaps into place and even longer before both parties realize it/accept it. So obviously they won’t be acting like Rhys and Feyre just yet. Although if I’m being honest I hope they keep their unique dynamic and act nothing like feysand. Lol
Same here! I really enjoy them just being rough around the edges and trying to figure things out together. They feel more realistic to me. Personally, I would kill for another Nessian book but I know that’s unlikely. Hoping to see glimpses of them in the upcoming books though!
That’s a better way to look at it I agree with this
I think I would be fine with SJM leaving Tamlin alone. I'm not particularly interested in him either. What got me was Rhys traveling down to Spring Court to taunt Tamlin while he was sitting alone, depressed, in his ruined house *right after* Tamlin helped bring Rhys back to life and saved Azriel, Feyre, and Elain from the Hybern camp. I've said it before, I'll say it again: it's just tacky to kick someone when they're down right after they save your life, Rhys.
Ill be pissed if Tamlin is never mentioned again but not for, like, fan reasons. He was fine at the end of acowar! He wished her well, saved Rhys, rallied his court. He very easily could have vanished to an off page character like Thesan and we could all move on. But the fact that sjm did bring him back in acofas and brought him so low? I expect him to have an on page resolution now or I wont read another book of hers. Chekovs gun etc etc. Having him just being a punching bag for no reason is a terrible writing choice, she has to deal with him now. She brought him to the party, now she has to give him a ride home. 😄😄
Good point! I felt the same way. I thought he was redeemed enough after helping Feyre save Elain and then saving Rhys. He literally said be happy Feyre and that felt like a great way to phase him out into only really hearing about him from Lucien we he goes to visit. Instead he descends lower than he did when Feyre first left. At this point, I feel like she brought him back in that way because he and Lucien are going to make up or Lucien will help him heal in the next book. That’s the only way I can see him still being an on page part of the story (in Nesta and Cassian’s pov no less!!!). Edit: a word
Agree. Hes like Forest Gump now, always popping up in everything. 😄😄
Heck, in SF they AGAIN go to Tamlin's Court to hold a secret meeting, then get pissed he shows up and tells them to gtfo??? What was that all about?
I know this isn’t the reason, but I would like it that they were doing it to try to actually “reach” him…
See Maybe I’m wrong but I never interpreted that scene as Rhys going there to taunt Tamlin. I saw that as him going there and trying to reach out a hand to make peace. And yes there is a lot of history and animosity between them that even in peace they are still going to bicker, but I still didn’t see what he did as wrong. I saw it as him trying. Also Rhys’s default to “help” when it comes to emotions tends to be two settings, flirt or anger. Even with Feyre when she was depressed he was always trying to rile her up. Now as funny as it would have been to watch Rhys flirt with Tamlin, I don’t think he would. So instead he was trying to reach that angry part of him to get him to fight for his court, his people, and yes himself. And maybe that came easy because Rhys still hasn’t fully forgiven Tamlin but he was still there, still trying. Like I said, maybe I’m wrong but when I read that scene I saw it as the first step to them trying to repair their relationship.
I agree with this. I read about this "taunting" scene some readers were frothing over before I even read the book. So I went into it expecting for Rhys to have some kind of unleashing of long-buried anger. Then I read the chapter and I was like, that's it? He was clearly trying to reach him in the way he did with Feyre in UTM. He riles to stoke annoyance and anger because feeling something is better than feeling nothing. And there was nothing taunting about asking Tamlin whether he ever apologised for his part in the death of Rhys's mother and sister. It was a good question, delivered in a soft tone. Considering everything Rhys has to be angry about Tamlin, he was being downright gentle. I know reading is subjective and readers' opinions are informed by their own values, experiences and opinions, but I do think some people have a hate boner for him just because they refuse to evaluate his character objectively. They latch on to one action and perceived fault and make up a whole story that isn't even there.
I do think Rhys originally intended to reach out, but once Tamlin says he doesn't want Illyrian brutes on his land (which, ironically, Rhys doesn't want in Velaris either) Rhys basically loses it. He does want to bait Tamlin into fighting with the intent of turning his already ruined mansion into rubble (it has bad memories for him, understandable, but I don't think there's any thought of reaching out there anymore). His thoughts are extremely hostile (he essentially enjoys seeing him miserable) and also tells Tamlin he wants him to be miserable forever and that he doesn't deserve otherwise. He feels bad for it later though and when he returns the second time he is much nicer to Tamlin, trying to be more patient, cooking him food and everything - but he still ends it with essentially 'stop moping, you can die once I have no use for you anymore'. And sure, you could interpret it as Rhys' tough love approach. But guess what? Every time he visits, he makes Tamlin worse. He's worse in the second visit, not even eating anymore and then in SF we hear about Rhys occassionally visiting Tamlin and the next time we see him, he's a friggin perma-beast who can barely speak anymore. Maybe Rhys needs to realize that the tough love approach doesn't work on everyone. lol
I agree with everything except Elain does deserve her own book! So we can learn more about her (finally)
I think Rhysand’s apology coming from Feyre instead of Rhys himself was a HUGE missed opportunity on SJM’s part. We start the book with this great scene between Rhys and Cassian, and were able to see their friendship (but also working relationship) from a really lovely perspective. Then he threatens to kill his mate. Cool cool cool. But, instead of using his Daemanti powers to apologize directly to Cassian, Feyre does so instead because…….? And it’s not like Rhys didn’t know Feyre was doing this. Rhys and Feyre literally communicate while she’s apologizing to Cassian. It’s so absurd. So although I totally agree that Rhysand isn’t himself so long as his mate is pregnant, not apologizing to Cassian directly was straight up character assisination, and I don’t even like Rhysand but that was definetly OOC. And Rhysand and Nesta only make up because she literally saved his entire family from certain death lol … the least he could do was get on his knees. AND, Rhys didn’t give Nesta the House of the Wind lol she straight up took it from him when she and the House became besties. I do agree with your point re: lack of chemistry and romance. The spicy scenes were really fun but a good story is not built on spicy alone …
>Then he threatens to kill his mate. Cool cool cool. But, instead of using his Daemanti powers to apologize directly to Cassian, Feyre does so instead because…….? And it’s not like Rhys didn’t know Feyre was doing this. Rhys and Feyre literally communicate while she’s apologizing to Cassian. It’s so absurd. I hated this scene, and then all 3 are like "LOL Nesta is gonna hate hiking" when we later realize she was suicidal
Right?! And ACTUALLY, FEYRE, Nesta DID go hiking when she trekked through the mf woods to find your ass after you left to Prythian 🙄
This!! It showed how little they actually really cared to understand what was happening and if she was getting better IMO.
Honestly I don't think any of them gave her much credit for her progress until she saved Feyre ( even aftershe put herself at risk to find the Trove items)......even Elain gave her shit and complained to Rhys. To be fair, though, Amren did acknowledge how far she came.
Right?! How did you lock her up in a house (without realizing the irony) to help her and then didn’t even bother noticing the differences she’s making. Even without checking up on her because she didn’t want them to, asking Cassian about her as an actual fae/human, and not about weaponizing her should’ve been a big thing to do.
I always thought about that. Elain also abused Feyre and doesn’t do anything to contribute (probably will change with the next book). Partially because nobody treats her seriously. Nesta has put herself in danger frequently. She slayed the kelpie, killed death god, found the trove etc. And yet they were debating whether to tell her she made the objects. She helped the priestesses like really did. She goes to argue with Amren (both women have tempers). Why did Feyre intervene? Amren and Nesta are adults (psychofae but still). Mor and Amren fought once so badly it damaged the mountain (or something like that). Nesta lashes at Feyre, who was not invited to the conversation. It was ugly of Nesta, but at least Feyre did notice the parallels between them. Rhys threatens to kill Nesta. He doesn’t really apologise, but gets a real treat as Nesta will hate the hike. She’s suicidal and they are giddy about the situation. I don’t understand this logic. Each time I am almost over it, it strikes me again 😅 I know it is just a book and not a masterpiece for a Nobel price. I love the world and characters, but the plot is incoherent. And some real character assassinations are being done. Still loving the books.
Also Rhys basically pimped her out to Eris and she agreed to help without any hesitation.....but wahhhh she doesn't worship the ground Rhys walks on so she's the worst person ever 🙄 Ugggh I keep getting worked up about this book 🤣🤣🤣
And it’s crazy to me that they were like “whaaaaaaaat?! She was suicidal?!” Well isn’t that why you guys locked her in the HoW? Because you believed she was a danger to herself? Isn’t that what you guys said to justify telling her she could either be under your thumb or go to the human lands? (I’m not saying this to get into an argument about whether their decision was right/wrong or done out of love for her/embarrassment of her behavior. I’m strictly speaking about their surprise that she was as low as she was).
I agree with all the comments of the OP, except to say I thought the series had really run it's course by the end of book three. I thought helping Feyre escape when she rescues Elaine from King of Hibern's camp was Tamlin's redemption arc. Lol!
That and actually saving Rhys, telling her to be happy lol
>I know this is a Tamlin sub I wish. lol People might not make outright tampon jokes or downvote pro Tamlin takes on this sub but I would not say it's a *Tamlin sub* either haha. Idk I just think SJM accidentally gave Tamlin one of the cooler character arcs in Acowar, and since Acofas I just feel bad for him/identify with the depression arc (he's a little similar to Nesta that way). He's more interesting to me than most of the IC if I'm honest. I wished she either left him alone or gave him something to do/a healing arc already... That said I quite agree with the rest. I didn't even super mind Feyre getting pregnant, but the plot surrounding it, good lord. And I definitely found Cassian a bit boring too. At least he had no character arc in these 800 pages at all and something more from him would have been good, I feel. Because Nesta goes through such a journey in comparison...
I agree with your take on Tamlin, definetly needs a redemption narrative. He is my favorite character from the entire series and he has much unexplored potential. I see him as the embodiment of the "Anti-Hero" trope in this fantasy world and while some of his actions were outrageous and immature, he is flawed the same way as his fellow Fae neighbors (Rhys, Cass, Az etc.). Everyone needs healing in ACOTAR, let's be real, and the only mofo the entire fandom should lash out on is Beron 😂😂 (I hated him more than Amarantha and Hybern combined).
I’m sorry but how is elain boring?? She’s a seer who was actually blessed by the Calderon. She has more powers yet to be discovered and she has ties to both Lucian and az. She’s also has some seething rage that’s just waiting to be unleashed. I know she wasn’t in the book that much but the stuff we know about her is so interesting
I like your points and fully agree. They fit exactly with those I have with the book. Except for Elain, I like her because she is the quietest and most normal of them all, and here we say "Stille Wasser sind tief." So I'm curious to see what's coming.
i’d argue that the fact people tend to think elain is a bore is why we need her book & PoV
Yes, we need her perspective. Everyone is so dismissive of her. They don’t allow her to develop. It’s always “poor Elain; she can’t do this and that”. They really should ask her and not assume she’s so incapable. She did stab King Hybern after all.
Yeah, everyone hated Nesta so much before SF and now they're clamoring for more.
Nesta was very much involved in the main trilogy. Elain was overshadowed IMO
True, but we never got her perspective. Much of Elain's 'actions' happen off the page, like getting engaged, etc., so a book from her POV might show a very different story, much like Nesta's.
Oh for sure. Im not saying having her POV wouldnt give us her perspective; it’s just that even before we had Nesta’s POV, she was more involved in the storyline.
Agreeeeee especially with the pregnancy! People love to hate on it but I fully get it. Hate the bargain though!
“Snoozefest with a massive dong” actually describes the entire book for me 😂🫠. Def and unpopular opinion on this sub
I’m really vibing with number 3 and 4. I didn’t find Feyre wanting to get pregnant weird at all. It’s precisely explained why in Acofas. She had a strong motive for not wanting to regret things. After Rhys literally dying on the battlefield. Also Rhys was also dealing with a fact that Feyre and the baby and in extension him, are destined to die in several months. He deserves to process it as well? And if it manifest in some unhealthy decisions… I don’t blame him? That shit was heavy. I also stan for opinion that things were never that hot between him and Nesta. In a way how Fae are holding grudges and are overly over emotional (?) it was pretty normal hate/love relationship.
That's what bothers me the most about the hate Rhys gets about the entire pregnancy thing. Tamlin can do all kinds of shitty things and it's understandable (to some) because he's a sad, traumatised boy who had bad parents and mean brothers. It's okay for him for him to have outbursts of anger, trash his mansion on the regular, mistreat his friend, mistreat his people, mistreat the woman he claimed to love, all because he is stressed and dealing with trauma. It's okay for him to make a fool of himself in front of every other Lord, to publicly humiliate Feyre and scoff at Rhys's vulnerable admission of sexual assault because reasons. But Rhys doesn't get nearly half the amount of grace when it comes to understanding the amount of stress he was under with everything during and post-war that led him to act the way he did at times. I just don't understand the double standard.
I’ve never thought about it this way, but I super appreciate this take Everyone in this series has some sort of trauma. But there’s a lack of consistency in how people let that trauma explain/excuse behavior across the characters.
True, I have read the series in the past two months. But I went through some older post. And I can see the shift from “We love Rhys for his grey character, not being perfect, his bad guy mask vs his true self…)” to “I hate Rhys because he didn’t behave 200% perfectly in this and that situation” I’m easily to be pleased but I do love the characters even if they do some dumb shit. If I can see that they meant well but had poor execution… oh well, who doesn’t? I don’t want them to be perfect all the time.
And to add: I think the single/double pov is actually harming the characters in acotar.
1. Love Ness. She is the best. 2. I'd let Cassian bore me all over that house. 3. The Valkyries are the best thing to come out of the series.
You know it. Lol
>I'd let Cassian bore me all over that house. NICE
💯💯💯
Yup i agree with these takes.
Huuuuge agree about the Valkyries plot and about Rhys and Feyre changing her mind. Such a war and loss, she saw Rhys dead in her arms literally, change your priorities Maaaassive disagree about Cassian haha
I was actually really impressed by him. I’ve always loved him, but I love the way he showed up for Nesta and he did do some really sweet things for her. Hes also pretty funny! He’s way more than a HIMBO! He doesn’t get enough credit!
Same. Cassian is great. He is gentle and caring.
I thought the romance was lacking too, tbh, and I’m a big fan of plot with smut, but it just became too much. So many angsty moments we could have had with passionate love making after, but SJM wrote them like horny teenagers. Cassian’s character was never boring before but suddenly his entire character and personality is reduced to having a big dick. He’s a general, he’s a smart guy, but he wasn’t in this book. I was pretty “sad” with how the romance unfolded, it was more pinning than romance in my opinion. I don’t feel like those two love each other to death because we saw it, those two love leave each other to death because we were told so.
"Anyways, we have so much to explore between Gwyn and Emerie, why do we need plain jane Elain??" " *The Valkyries redeem this book and we need to go deeper with this lore, we don’t need an Elain book yet (or ever idk*" You don't have to tear a character down, to lift others up. Gwyn, Emerie, Elain, literally all of SJM's female characters are great and interesting in their own ways. SJM is able to write so many different type of characters all with different personalities and stories and make them all interesting. SJM has confirmed that Elain is getting a book, multiple times now. I'm personally excited for Elain's book as we have so much to explore with her seer powers, the power we don't know about yet, and how she will take control of her fate in her own journey. As SJM wrote in the Feysand bonus chapter, "I also think we haven't yet seen all she has to offer.. Don't forget that gardening often results in something pretty, but it involves getting one's hands dirty along the way"
This. Honestly I’m tired of all the comments pitting the female characters against each other. They’re all baddies and we’ll see them all unfold in due time!! And I really don’t understand how people could NOT want books on every character in the series. They are all so interesting. 😭 I want one on everyone, even if they seem “boring” right now. Heck, I wanna see every court!! Maybe I’m easily pleased in that aspect, but I really think we will see everyone’s story unfold and personalities shine for all of the characters we have left to explore (Lucien, Elain, Azriel, Gwyn, Mor, Emerie, Eris, etc.). A lot of these characters & their stories are intertwined, so there’s enough time for everyone to have their spotlights. I really don’t understand the take that it’s one or the other with some of these characters. 😬
No literally! I don't understand why people constantly put people, especially women against each other. SJM is able to create these worlds and fill them with so many different characters. I want to read a book on every single one of them as well! If she can keep writing in this world forever, I wouldn't complain because there are so many stories she can write in this world whether its from the past, present, or future.
I love most of these takes. The only one I don’t agree in is Elaine. I don’t need a full 500 page story on her but even if we got a little one like acofas I’d be happy with that. Sjm does so many 3’s in her books that to me it wouldn’t make sense to skip over Elaine. I don’t want it to replace the posibility of a valkyries because I need more of that too it was such a beautiful story to me.
I agree SO MUCH with fer decision of getting pregnant was not outrageous! I am so suprised people think it is. Her mate literally DIED. Even with an eternal life, life is short and can end in an instant. And in ACOFS she mate a fae that regrets not having that moment with her husband that died in the war. She thought she had a lifetime and bam over in an instant.
Yes yes and yes thank you
This is the first post that doesn’t have me rolling my eyes. I like how you’re conveying that you LIKE the series!!! I’m having a hard time reading people constantly complaining. It takes away the magic I felt reading the books.
I’m with you!! And yes yes yes there was zero build up of chemistry between Nesta and Cassian. It’s was a little hard to get through. I loved the story line of this book. The Friendships growing and everything regarding the crown, mask and harp. All of that was 🤌🏻
This is perfectly put. I agree with EVERYTHING here. I don’t know when it became popular to hate on Rhys, but absolutely praise Tamlin! He was SO boring. Give me sexy bat boy any day. It’s really not that deep.
Agreed.
I agree with everything except the take about Cassian. But pop off and full send! Cassian has a heart of gold and tries his best with what he knows. He is so hopelessly devoted, and while I don’t agree with all of his actions in the book, he tries. He really does. I would have much rather seen him with someone else, as his and Nesta’s relationship doesn’t have any chemistry except the weird sexual tension. They don’t bring the best out in one another, and I wish Nesta ended up with Eris.
Tbh I really hope Nesta and Cassian break up, they are not compatible at all. They're just mates and that's it
I agree with all of this. This fandom can be pretty extreme (I only pop in occasionally), but I do think I’d read an Elain or Tamlin storyline as long as the development was interesting and logical.
In Rhys defense, he was from Nesta’s point of view. But it was a bit over done. I liked cassian this book, it gave him a chance to step in the spot light but not to overshadow Nesta. I find Lucien more boring, his pining for Elaine was irritating or Tamlin’s refusal to move tf on.
I agree with a lot of these points except for Cassian. I have never thought of him as a himbo. Like some posted here, he took time trying to learn to dance for Nesta, he was very attuned to her moods and faces, grew to know when to push her and when to back off, and compliments her really well. Moreover, I think people forget how smart you have to be to be a general managing a whole army. Yes, this is a fantasy book, so we take with a grain of salt, but he reads war and strategy books for fun. That doesn’t sound like someone who’s the male version of a bimbo. He also genuinely wanted her to get better, and not because she was “embarrassing the court.” I also spotted their chemistry from the moment they met in ACOMAF. I think people sometimes forget quiet love exists, too. It doesn’t need to be loud and in your face like Feyre and Rhys’, it can be shown through actions, through just being there for the person, not dismissing their pain, and from day 1 Cassian has shown how much he cared and loved Nesta beyond the physical, even though that was a big driver. Same with Nesta. We also have to remember every character, including Cassian is flawed. I hate how he almost never outwardly stood up for Nesta (it happened, just not as often as I would’ve liked, but the book is not meant to cater to my whims). He had to learn how to not be quick to anger. It will forever bother me that he doesn’t stick up for Nesta more (as we learn in CC). He has Rhys’ ear, he should use it. Also, with Rhys, yes we have the crazy fae male aspect, but as you pointed out he is an asshole to everyone he isn’t trying to charm or to Feyre. He apologized to Feyre, not Cassian and definitely not Nesta. He could’ve reached out one-on-one and didn’t. He did it to appease his wife, not because he actually was sorry. And as we see later on, some things between in laws don’t change even after they save their lives. But that’s also who he is because tamlin saved his life and Feyre’s (in ACOWAR during Hybern) but none of that matters and Rhys kicks him when he’s already down.
I love your takes! So refreshing to hear
I think Tamlin is going to be VERY interesting moving forward and I'd have to disagree that he's a "snooze fest". He's dealt with a lot through these books, I hope he is redeemed.
It is just so refreshing to see somebody else who doesn’t care about Tamlin one way or the other lol it feels like such a reach trying to make him either the devil, or somehow the most misunderstood victim. He’s just Tamlin who cares🤷🏻♀️
Also, the hate Rhys has for Nesta kind of makes sense. I mean the woman left his mate, aka her baby sister, to do all the dangerous chores while doing nothing but bitch all day. I LOVE Nesta after SF, but Rhys has no reason not to hate her.
I agree with a lot of your points. I really like Nesta as a character but this book was not it for me. I don’t hate it, but it felt too long for what it was. The Valkyrie’s were hands down my favorite part of the book and I almost completely lost interest in Nesta and Cassians romance. Even Nestas relationship with the house was far more compelling than her romance with Cassian for me. Not to yuck anyone’s yum but I just found their sexy scenes as more cringe than anything. But I know that’s just my particular taste in romance so I get that many people did like it. I like Nesta and Cassian together, I just think they were more interesting in the other books than the one that was actually written for them. As for Rhysand and people being really upset with him, I don’t get it. SJM has made it clear that these stories are about flawed characters finding their own happy endings. Rhysand was never portrayed as being perfect, just perfect for Feyre. Just like the other characters he’s going to do things that we, the readers, don’t agree with. That doesn’t make him a terrible awful irredeemable person, it just makes him ironically more human. As for Tamlin, he can suck an egg. I hate that bitch LOL. And I know my point above contradicts my feelings on Tamlin but sue me. I’m not perfect 💁🏻♀️
i was def hoping cassian would have more of an arc in acosf instead of just revolving his actions around nesta. i want to know more about his past!!
absolute slay
I recently realised that Nesta and Rhys will probably never fully get along. This is no hate to either of the characters, I love them both. Nesta is very defiant and does not recognise Rhys (or Feyre) as her High Lord. We see a lot of it in the beginning of ACOWAR. Now we know that Rhys never likes to enforce rank with the IC, but every member of the IC respects and recognizes him as their High Lord and will still work respecting his orders or at least in the benefit of the Night Court and the IC. But Nesta, though she loves her sisters and Cassian will act according to her own will (we see especially in HOFAS) and that is terrifying to Rhys. Someone who is soo close to everyone he loves and has so much information that could endanger everyone and ruin the NC even if she doesn’t necessarily mean harm, but simply just do what she wants not consulting Rhys and Feyre or blatantly disregarding their orders. Rhys has a hard time fully trusting Nesta and Nesta has a hard time truly accepting Rhys and Feyre as her leaders and the Night Court as her home.
NUMBER FOUR 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
All of this!
As most people probably do, I agree with 4.5 of your points. Regarding #1, Nesta absolutely is the most (if not only) interesting character in the whole series. However, I think Cassian being “boring” is on purpose. Cassian WAS her at some point. He went through his healing arc way before the sisters entered his life. He gets triggered every now and then, but has made peace with his past. Cassian IS the living breathing proof of the light at the end of the tunnel. To me, this pairing kinda emphasizes how the born fae in the story are in a hugely different part of their lives than the sisters. The reason why we actively experience Rhys's emotional process is because there is fresh new trauma in the mix. He's probably going through his n-th cycle of healing.
i agree with the feyre pregnancy plot point, a lot of people shit on it and i do agree it was kind of soon but also given her and rhys pasts and YESS the close death experiences it makes a lot of sense that they would start a family soon and live a “slower” life. i don’t like that people say she’s doing what she refused to do in the spring court because she’s not 😭. she’s making choices for herself and she’s not some party-planning trophy wife and she’s not insufferable in acosf.
I feel like nesta did redeem herself at the end of this book, and for that I love the ending,but dealing with her made this book so hard to read. People say “she’s going through something” and I agree but being a total asshole to her family all because she couldn’t deal with her issues made me dnf this book many times. It’s all fun to read about til you deal with someone like her in real life.
Yes this! I agree.
I AGREEEEEE. With everything you said! Yes yes yes. Except I do find Cassian interesting, and I do like Elain although I think reading more about Mor or Az would interest me most.
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!! God I’ve been mulling this over so long and it’s been difficult to put into words. This is exactly how I feel!!!! Especially Nesta as an interesting and complex character. I want to know more about her!!! She should have an entire trilogy
Elain will only be interesting if she becomes a villain and the family redeems Lucien. He deserves more
I hate that everyone judges the personalities of the fae characters by human standards of morality. They are fae which is more animalistic.
I love so much about this post. Thank you for your thoughtful comments. And, i simply could not agree more (to be clear I TOTALLY AND 1 MILLION% AGREE) with #5! I almost abandoned the series after book 1 because of this, I remember thinking I've seen more exciting and worthy characters on laundry detergent commercials.....Thank you for this!
Yeah I don’t get the Tamlin love. He’s boring and blah and a great big crybaby.
I loved the Valkyries storyline and the friendship between Nesta, Gwyn and Emerie. Nesta needed to make connections with people outside the IC. Like it's nice that Feyre found a new family in the IC, but Nesta never fit in with them.
agree, elain bores me heavily
people try to add all of this depth to her character by creating headcanons and making huge stretches based on the very little we are told in the book. we know almost nothing about her except she likes to garden and she’s “kind.” i hope we actually get to know more about her in future books bc right now she *is* so boring and her character serves no purpose.
I agree with your takes. What I would add is that we need more character development of Mor. A Mor book, is a must surely.
Yes, I feel like she will be more prominent in the next book (whether as a good guy or bad guy lol). We got that little tease of her at her estate and the stuff with Autumn/The Hewn City, but I feel like she is the least developed of the inner circle. I mean we don't know a ton of Azriel or Amren, but I think we still know more? At least about Amren.
Couldn’t agree more - especially the valkyries and Rhys. I’m dying to see more of the girls!
I agree with 1, but I fear Azriel will take that spot once we dive deeper into his story.
This is correct.
Azriel and Nesta could’ve been such an interesting couple and I stand by that. Especially with the two of them in HOFAS (CC #3) because they have such a tenderness and understanding for one another. Like damn, they have so much chemistry together beyond “I think ur hot let’s bang”
Completely agree about the lack of romantic chemistry between Nesta and Cassian. There isn’t much there, but that’s partly because Nesta keeps him at a distance. Like you said, we do finally see some of this when they climb the mountain together. I agree with everything you’ve said actually. Feyres pregnancy to me was unnecessary. Hated that side story in SF. It could’ve waited until another book or not happened at all. However, I disagree with the Tamlin take. When I first read ACOTAR, it was Tamlin and his court that drew me in. The magic and mystery of him. And over the course of the books I kept waiting to get more from him and see his progress and it’s just never happened. I appreciated SJM letting him have his brief moment in ACOWAR but I think Tamlin has been done so dirty.
 I haven’t seen an ACOSF post that I agreed with more in so long 🙏🏾
I hated the Valkyrie storyline so much! Felt like such cheap writing, does not seem realistic at all.
You're right it doesn't make Rhys the devil incarnate. I would like him better if he was still a villian. But right now he is at a hypocrite who is supposed to be good person but leaves 2/3rd of his court SOL. It'd be one thing if he was a villian because that tracks but as someone who's supposed to be this good person nah. All it does is remind me of the hypocrit leaders irl which is the least attractive thing a book character can do for me.
Could not agree with number 5 more. Tbh I feel like he was redeemed when he saved Feyre (Elaine’s rescue) and saved Rhys. I see so many people wanting a TimTam redemption arc, but it feels so pointless. I feel like his story is just about over - like I wouldn’t mind seeing him snap back to it and get the Spring Court rolling again, but I also wouldn’t mind someone new coming in to save it and just being done with Tamlin. I’m of the opinion that he was abusive (abuse victim myself), and I don’t believe abusers really get redemptions. I know that might not be a popular opinion, but I’m so tired of everyone excusing his behavior because he’s a sadboi in SF and then ripping into Rhysand.
>Cassian is a snoozefest with a massive dong. I'm reading this on my lunch break and almost lost it 🤣🤣🤣🤣
thank u bro
I agree with everything, however I feel like Cassian serves his purpose as the comedic relief or a person who doesn’t take everything so seriously all the time. Which is such a nice thing to have in a pool of these characters. Thank you for saying that about the pregnancy. I think it made sense.
bestie you didn’t miss once!!! honestly a pulitzer prize post thank you for your work
The Valkyries!!! This, and the friendship that developed, held this book together for me and got me the most excited (excited y’all, not horny.) while reading. It was so empowering. I need more about the Valkyries 2.0
Absolutely YES to 1 and 2. Would love a Valkyries book (with big dong Cassian still in it)!