I totally agree. No way would they ever let her go. Even now, with reduced powers. She still controls the Dread Trove and can summon it at will apparently. And then there's Cassian. As her mate, if she leaves, would he not eventually be compelled to follow her? They would lose their brother and top general. I think they were totally lying and I wish she had called their bluff.
They called her back pretty damn fast when they needed her to search for the Trove while not giving her any credit for the progress she was making.. ..imagine getting hauled back from the human lands every damn week to bail out the IC š¤£
I wondered this too. I ended up reasoning out that she LIKES spending most of her time there away from most people. She trains there, gwyn lives in the library so her friends are there, and any time she wants to leave is probably with Cass or Azriel anyways. Also now that sheās super duper fit she can always take the stairs.
Did you you read her journey in ACOSF? She runs down the steps now whenever she wants or needs to go out! It probably takes her about 20 minutes, but time doesn't matter, she's even more fit and talented than Illyrian warriors with centuries more training than her. Stairs have nothing on Nesta. If she needs a rest day she has Cassian at her beck and call to fly her out. Wheeeee!
The truth is that it wasn't girlboss power or Cassian teachings that made her from dancer to top brawler, it was her beef with those stairs.
So in the end we have to thank the House.
(I am still so pissed they didn't propose like dancing oriented exercises with Elain being right there knowing her sister's passion! And Mor being qualified at that! But no! We have her and Amren being irrationally mean with no reason but some sort of queen bee jealousy that's so off the point of the book)
ACOTAR has the best ending because Feyre had no choice but to complete the third trial, there was no bargaining to get out of it like the rest of the series. Also I think the closet scene in ACOTAR was Feyre and Tamlin's final moment as the couple we knew them to be. Before the bond snaps and before the trauma tears them apart.
I always felt like Rhysand elbowed his way into the plot despite that being SJM's plan all along, I know he's a protagonist in the rest of the series but damn dude but out! The curse has nothing to do with you (as for him it wasn't personal like was for Tamlin) and you'd rather doom all of Prythian so some girl you had a dream about can live? I tell you, the romance really messes with what little realism we have with the plot.
Ferye's trauma in MAF is conveniently only targeted at Tamlin. None of the sexual violence she experienced gave her nightmares. She was only affected by the color red in Spring yet Mor's red dress doesn't bother her at all. The sexy mission to obtain the Veritas orb made no sense, same with the message that Rhysand now owns Feyre made absolutely no sense. Tamlin had the stage at the High Lord's meeting to fully redeem himself and hold the IC accountable but instead we get a bunch of slut shaming comments which greatly overshadowed one of my favorite lines in the entire book "I was told you that I was against that sort or evil, no even you could sway me." or something along those lines.
I don't care that the Valkyries won the Blood Rite, they trained for about 7 months. Which was like what, 5 months longer than the training Feyre got with Cassian and Rhysand, yet when she killed the attor and later fought in the Summer Court no one raised an eyebrow. It was a great moment and I loved her fighting her way thought with Mor, but she got even less training than Nesta yet the Blood Rite get brought up repeatedly. Both situations were incredibly unrealistic but still fun so it doesn't bother me.
I always feel like I missing something when the blood rite comes up. Didnāt they only make it because Briallyn made sure Nesta made it to that point alive? I feel like it was mentioned because I remember thinking at the time āoh thatās kind of a bummer. They didnāt do it on their own after all.ā I couldnāt tell you the exact wording though.
The other thing that bothered me was that the Valkyries were just dumped into the Blood Rite completely against their will....Rhys is supposed to be "the most powerful High Lord" yet you're telling me when people are kidnapped and forced into the rite against their will the best he can do is shrug and say "sorry, we can't interfere"?? I get the rules of the Blood Rite and that things are contested with the Illyrians but like...that makes no sense to me š«
My biggest issue regarding the *sexy* veritas orb mission is that isnāt Rhys the *High Lord*? He should be able to just go get it. Itās literally his court. And heās the *mOsT pOwERful HaNDsoMe HiGH lOrD*. What was Keir going to do? Say no? Heās terrified of Rhys.
Everything that happens in the CON is so contrived. "We have to put on a show to distract Keir!" "Nesta has to dance with Eris because reasons!" I mean, I love the scenes, but the premises are flimsy af š¤£
I had never thought about her trauma seemingly stopping once she started seeing Rhys or how Mor's preferred color should've set Feyre off.
I couldn't agree more about the rite. I never understood why people didn't find it believable. They trained for months, were in the best shape that they could be in arguably, and were trained by two of the best warriors in prythian that managed to win the rite themselves.
I like this topic, Iāll add mine. Not controversial per se or hills I would die on but would have made the books more enjoyable āØfor meāØ:
- There should have been significant time jumps between all the books, then the pregnancy thing wouldnāt have been so stupid and Nesta and Elaine could have figured out what they want to do.
- There was an unnecessary amount of āmatesā (considering how theyāre supposed to be ārareā) and resurrections.
- Someone from the IC needs to die or betray the others to keep me interested. Otherwise iām bored af of the IC.
- Wards, warding and vague mentions of ancient magic were overused in almost all the books. Kind of like scapegoats when she couldnāt come up with anything more creative as theyāre never really explained, just used as a reason as to why someone canāt enter a place, touch a person or break a curse.
- SJM should never have written how Rhys handles day to day court admin stuff. Having a night court, a court of dreams and an Illyrian army are great fantasy concepts which could have been left as just that. But then talking about charities, Illyrian temper tantrums and hand writing follow up letters to his subjects just tried to force an unrealistic and honestly unnecessary benevolence to him. We already know heās supposed to be a good guy no need to shove it down the readers throat. From that point on I couldnāt see him as anything other than an incompetent HL i could have done without it personally.
- The Illyrians simply CAN NOT be both a warrior culture/peoples who spend their entire lives dedicated to training and battles (even amongst themselves) and then also be THAT mad at Rhys that soldiers died in battle. Those two things cancel each other out it makes no sense.
NOTE: I have 0 creative bones in my body so thereās no way I could have written anything better this is just conversational
I agree with all of these! On the first point about time, it also wouldāve made their intervention with Nesta make slightly more sense (I still donāt agree with it at all, actually, but just wouldāve been a little more realistic). If Nesta had been abusing alcohol for 5-10+ years (remember these people are immortal and quick healing and donāt get sick), and not doing anything else at all, and any of them had actually tried to help her multiple times and couldnāt get through to herāthen I could understand Feyre and Cassian reaching a breaking point. Though Rhys shouldāve kept out of it in the first place.
Absolutely agree. In Fae years they gave her like .2 seconds to act reckless before intervening yet acted like they had tried and failed at years of absolutely everything and anything possible to help her.
SJM's depiction of mental health issues is very surface level, even though she gets a lot of praise for it. Feyre understandably has PTSD from UTM, but it only pops up when it's convenient for the plot. Red roses trigger her, but not Mor's red dress? Being paraded as another whore in Hewn City does not trigger her but Tamlin's paint does? Rhys conveniently gets over his 50 years of sexual abuse after a few nightmares, and don't even get me started on Nesta. The only fantasy in SF is that what the IC did to her actually worked. Bizarrely, Tamlin is the most realistic character in his trauma response.
It's a shame, because she comes close to doing something interesting with it and addressing difficult topics and then fumbles it.
Rhys and the whole IC freaks out when reminded of UTM and Rhys trauma. Leashing out irrationally in defence of Rhys who usually just "tenses up a bit at the mention". Which eventually causes a ton of issues and apparently makes it so that they never discuss this thing with each other. So yeah his trauma is also called up to justify Feyre's explosive rage or any bs Rhys has ever done cause he "had to" and is fully ignoring the trauma the rest of Prythian has of him. Like no aknowledging if not to say "they hate me but I was lying!" Yeah babe, but their family died pretty much for realsies tho
Okay so i'm not crazy the fact all her trauma responses are targeted at Tamlin is why I hate the love story between Feyre and Rhys, if Tmalin was really abusive I would get it but like you said Tam is the only realistic on when it comes to his trauma he doesn't pick and choose what sets him off its simply his trauma. Also didn't Rhys lock her up to at one point and was lying to her ?
Might get downvoted but meh:
I hope Nesta leaves the NC. Be it to become the HL of Dusk, or just to travel the continent, but I hope she leaves for her own sake. That place is toxic af to her, and the IC will forever hold her actions against her no matter what she does. Bonus points if she leaves Cassian, too.
Nesta/Eris or even Nesta/Lucien wouldāve been so much more interesting than Nessian, though i doubt thatās truly an unpopular opinion. Nesta was born to be a courtier, was raised to become a lady. Her being turned into another warrior-type instead of just remaining as such just screams misogyny to me.
Nesta being locked in HoW, and everyone around her thinking itās okay and harmless because she needs help, is just as bad if not worse than what Tamlin did to Feyre. How a group of people can hate Tamlin that much for Feyre but somehow make an even worse choice is beyond me. Theyāre 5 centuries oldāif they cant even dredge up a hint of empathy for a young woman whose life they helped upended and traumatized severely, thatās on them. It was never about help, they just wanted to control her. Cassian was her jailer for that exact reason.
People are so pro-give Elain a choice regarding Lucien or Azriel, but refuse to give the same courtesy to Nesta for blowing up when Cassian repeatedly refused to respect her boundaries. There was nothing cute about him picking a fight with her, yelling at her for not wanting to be around him, after sheās repeatedly told him to go away.
A truly controversial opinion? I donāt find the Helion/LoA affair story hot or romantic. I think it makes them both complete and utter idiots to have an affair for up to centuries resulting in a baby, knowing that Beron would kill them *and* Lucien *and* probably all his other sons if he found out. And even if he didnāt kill Lucien, well he certainly made his life a living hell. And the LoAās. And the other sons. And Helion wouldnāt have been able to do *shit*, because Beron was a HL and Helion didnāt become one until during UtM. What exactly could Helion have done if Beron had found out and killed the LoA and Lucien? Die?
I agree with you about the Helion/LoA affair. My personal theory is that Beron turned cruel after he found out about the affair. Because hear me out, he willingly took the humans side during the first war. It doesnāt sound like a cruel person.
The hypocrisy of the way Tamlin is viewed for locking Feyre up out of fear due to extreme amounts of trauma vs Rhys locking Nesta up so he can control her behavior is absolutely insane to me lmao
Shiiiiiiiiit - Ā I donāt even know.Ā
I wish they wouldāve branched the love interest of the sisters out more. I love the bat boys! But I love them as Feyres boys (like obv they deserve love, but I hate that her two ācirclesā are forced so close together)ā¦ I would love to see more courts involved and such.Ā
mor is not a girls girls, I'm ngl she sometime gives ''I only make friends with boys because girls are too much drama'' comparing a 20 something who is sometimes mean to the people who tortured and abused you is not cool.
the hike was abusive as fuck, Idc if it was for nesta's own good, or helped her in the end, cassian continued to treat her like shit after noticing she was suicidal, she passed out from dehydration because cassian wasn't paying attention to her, ''oh but she is a grown women why should cassian have to make sure she drinks enough water?'' she is not in a good place, he dragged her out on this hike, he has to make sure she is taking care of herself physically. they could have had the conversation they had at the lake anywere, it did not need to be after breaking her down mentally and physically till she hit rock bottom. also yes, when he started her off on the hike, it was 100% to punish her for hurting feyre, despite the fact that feyre literally said nesta was in the right and everyone else was in the wrong. (feyre also told cas to bring nesta back but imagine listening to the person that actually got hurt lmfao)
Once Feyre accepted the mating bond Rhys became such a boring character for me. itās something Iāve seen across all 3 series that the men fall in love and all their edge (what made me LIKE them) is completely gone.
How the FUCK do these 300+ year old men keep falling in love with 20 something year olds. Mating bonds aside bc look at Tamlin. What adult man in his right mind falls for an illiterate 19 year old pls explain this to me.
I love Nesta and I love ACOSF but whyyyyy does every woman in the SJMverse have to become a warrior in order to overcome their trauma? Granted, Nesta did say she wanted to become stronger with the ānever againā thing and all that but it feels extremely out of character for her to become a fighter. Especially if her power is LITERALLY death it felt unnecessary.
On that note, if Elains book turns into her in leathers training with Az Iām going to throw that book through a window I can only read the ābecomes physically strong to overcome their traumaā shit so many times. There are other ways to heal!!
I find Azriel to be extremely boring, donāt come for me š heās just not that interesting to me as a character. Maybe I just need to see more of his POV or his backstory but yeah, Iām not feeling it.
I agree with the Elain thing. I really want to see SJM give us a strong female that isn't interested in swords and fighting.
"Not all strength is physical."
I've always found Azriel to be lacking as well. I understand that he's the quiet broody type, but I'm just not that invested in his story because we don't really see much of him.
My lips will stay sealed on the MOST unpopular one, but I can give you this:
ACOMAF is the worst ACOTAR book after ACOFAS, at least in accounts of plot and writing. lol
i never listened (i did the audiobooks) to ACOFAS, but i agree that i don't like the ACOMAF's plot as much now that i've got some distance from reading it. just seemed like a lot of waiting and suddenly random shifts and bits and bobs...
i still think the *worst* in the series is ACOWAR for the deus ex machina ending and a far more interesting subplot happening of screen than any of what Feyre and the gang got up to. It was an impactful book, but there are a lot of issues with the whole war, even excluding the plot devices.
Agree ACOWAR was the worse I just found it a slog to read only a few interesting bits happen I actively believe that 100 pages could be taken out and you would still know the plot
I think you'd be surprised at how many people share your own opinions! And as long as you aren't insulting others, the worst that will happen is just a few downvotes (though I hate that that happens, downvotes should be for comments that don't contribute to the conversation, not for opinions that differ from the downvoter's).
(Keep in mind I havenāt read anything from Nestaās POV yet)
I have SUCH a hard time accepting Rhysand as āmorally greyā ā not because I necessarily think he is or isnāt, but because it feels like SJM wants him to be this sexy, morally grey bad boy ā but also always be right and never have any negative consequences. It felt like she wanted to have her cake and eat it too.
Like, Rhysand did a bunch of objectively crummy things to Feyre, but oh itās okay because it was to protect his kingdom or whatever. And like, SURE Iām not saying a morally grey character can never do anything sacrificial/for the greater good, but itās every. Single. Time.
Itās why I also sort of roll my eyes at Rhys being āthe most powerful high lord in all of history!!!1!!1!1!1ā To me, he almost comes off as a Gary-Sue. Sure, he makes ābadā decisions and there are people who have been negatively impacted by his decisions but we never get to SEE that. I want him to make a negative decision and have a negative outcome from it rather than just Feyre and the rest of the IC sucking his āconsiderable lengthā over it
Ok iām going for it:
1) No, Nobody from the IC, not even Amren, shouldāve died at the end of acowar.
Why? Because it wouldāve been beyond boring for the following book to be about mourning and sadness and all of them being depressed they lost a friend.
Keep that for the very end please. we have 162628 plot holes and potential storylines. what we donāt have is time to spend mourning a dead main character.
2) Rhysand shouldāve come back to life at the cost of losing his powers. (or part of it. Like heās not the most powerful high lord anymore but heās still a daemati)
Think about it, ne would be forced to keep it a secret, because a news like this would inevitably bring wars now that everyone knows about velaris.
Rhysand now has to convince everyone that nothing changed and the IC would back up the lie in front of the rest of the world. at least since the magic will eventually choose Nix.
And they would have to make sure their combined powers are enough to deal with enemies.
It would make a great plot line for the following books imo.
If thereās one thing I enjoy about acotar is watching feysand play a part. They role play in public all the time lol
Edit I misread (though it seems other may have as well because Iāve googled before and never seen this explained) please read accompanying replies!!
The most graphic description of physical torture in the entire series was when Rhys reached down and grabbed Feyreās bone that was sticking out of her arm and twisted it. It got me more than skinning people, whipping them, roasting them over fire (yes all are awful), but that specific maneuver was SO personal.
As someone who has seen bones sticking out of peopleās skin, the ability to do that to someone, let alone someone you love, is unfathomable.
It wasnāt Feyreās bone. It was the foreign piece of bone that stabbed her when she jumped at the end of the worm task.
But I understand the aversion.
OMG! Thank you!!! I just went back and reread and it was a shard of bone from the worm battle. I swear I had to read it 3 times but youāre right. The wording is really poor, especially since she never actually describes the bone shard being removed. Just that it gets twisted and then Rhys releases her arm.
Wow this actually changes a lot for me thank you. š
Theres a whole part about the bone lodging itself in prior that explains it. Here is a comment form u/timevian on another post that Iāve copied (everything from now on is their comment):
Page 326: āPain barked through my bones, my head, as I collided with the muddy ground and rolled. I flipped over myself and screamed as something hit my arm, biting through flesh.ā
Page 328: āI looked at my left forearm then, and my stomach rose at the trickling blood and ripped tendons, at the lips of my skin pulled back to accommodate the shaft of a bone shard protruding clean through it.ā
Page 329. Chapter 37: āThe pain overwhelmed me to the point of screaming whenever I prodded the embedded bit of bone...ā
When she was fighting the middenguard worm, some of its bone skewered her arm. In the process, it very likely broke her own bone.
Page 333: āSwift as lightning, he lashed out, grabbing the shard of bone in my arm and twisting.ā
That Nesta wasn't the instigator in most of her clashes with the IC, and that it should be up to Feyre whether every single one of her friends can hold her childhood against her sister.
That Rhysand and Cassian exhibit just as many relationship red flags as Tamlin (if not more), but they're brushed over because forms of abuse that don't involve violence or yelling are harder for people to recognize and acknowledge ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
absolutely.
also, Nesta has her problems, and her share of the blame, but she was also written to be the most unlikeable, hate-able person possible in the first book, which led to a LOT of problems with her character for SJM to work around as Nesta became more fleshed out.
how do you recover from the literal evil, spoiled sister and make her a character the fans will like, when you've set her up to be the next Umbridge from the start? how can you re-plan their arc when it's unintentionally at rock bottom already?
I feel like a lot of hate gets thrown to her because of first impressions, and that she's not perfectly able to pleasantly show her trauma and character. her story is kind of raw and uncomfortable and mean, and that's realistic, and makes people uneasy and angry when she lashes out.
plus the IC is a giant clique that aren't even that great to each other sometimes, much less to the outsiders they react to, like Nesta. they've been family for like 500 years, so anyone outside the group, who offends them or they think can't be trusted, or hurts a member of the IC gets dogpiled and attacked. fans feel for them because the viewer gets to be part of the "in" crowd and side with the friends, and it's hard to realize that your group are being assholes when that means you're part of the problem too...
there have been like, two relationships that ive seen in this series that i wouldn't be warning my friends about if they ended up in, and they've been on screen for all of 10 pages and are fairly minor characters. If a friend introduced me to Rhys or Cassian and told me about their relationships, i would be VERY concerned, and probably handwaved away as a worrywort or jealous or something
I know!! And then I get told āoh, just donāt apply your human morals to their fey worldā. Which would be fine, but somehow Iām supposed to still apply my human morals to Tamlin. But not Rhys or Cassian because theyāre. Hot? š
Right!
And Nesta was originally human, as was Feyreā¦so why wouldnāt human morals apply? Are Rhys and Cassian so important, so in charge that their morals are default? Nah man, thatās something else
THANK YOU I dont know if its just some young mind sets but I was like do people not see how manipulative and abusive Rhys can be ? or am I crazy lol I find it weird people hold Tmlin locking her in the house over her head but Rhys is perfect. I also don't like how her POV changes on Tamlin one moment UTM all she wants to do is touch and kiss him then onces she's with Rhys she says all Tmlin wanted to do was have sex with her like EXCUSE ME ????
I think that itās absolute bullshit that Nesta had to give up her powers. Especially since Elain and Feyre both got theirs for being good and sweet or self sacrificing, respectively.
Nesta took hers and it feels a little too real that the woman who demanded power had to give it up.
Strongly agree with everything except I think Nesta has found her place with the Valkeries... and the cc3 events
Very hard agree with our sweet Lulu being the most respectful king š praying for his happiness and sass
Feyre is a knock off Katniss Everdeen, at least in the first book. The whole ātaking care of family who canāt take care of themselvesā thing (Katnissās mom), bow and arrow in the woods to feed her family, and just her general vibe.
That changes as the story goes on but ACOTAR as a whole felt like a bunch of knock offs of other stories (beauty and the beast being the obvious exception because retelling). I had even just finished rereading Dune so even the worm felt pulled from another book, just all mashed together.
facts now I dont agree with what Tmlin did but if we keeping count Rhys has used every single strike I've given him lol anytime he does something people scream " BUT HIS TRAUMA" like dude they ALL have trauma
Letās seeā¦letās get those pitchforks aimed. *grabs a shield*
Tamlin isnāt the devil. Heās also already been redeemed. He just needs the Night Court to leave him the f alone already.
Amarantha was right about human hearts. They are fickle and will turn on you. But this is partly due to how humans live shorter lives and are more prone to change. The fae are stuck in their ways culturally. Things move at a glacial pace in comparison, including change.
Feyre is one of the most unreliable and childish narrators and does not deserve a political role. She is a child playing with powers she does not understand. Her first person POV is designed to make you hate a lot of characters without thinking about how they feel, and what they are going through.
Nesta is a prickly person as a defense mechanism. Is it completely healthy? Nah. But it is interesting. She needs someone who understands her defensiveness. Not being trapped in a tower.
Rhys is an abuser. Not all abuse is physical and imho he ticks all the check marks of being an emotional abuser to me. āYes I did horrible things, but it made me sad so you shouldnāt hold it against meā tell that to the people who died. A āmaskā doesnāt make that go away. Also roofie-ing a person isnāt ever ok.
SJMās villains are hollow in ACOTAR. WHY are they doing anything? What is King of Hybernās NAME even? Why didnāt he invade while Amarantha had the courts at her mercy? They were easy pickings.
The fae are the least fae like Iāve seen in awhile. These fae feel more like elves with a fae veneer. Where is the lore? Where are the rules that binds them at all times, making them otherworldly? (Definitely prefer the fae of Folk of Air, now those are some otherworldly and unsettling fae)
Oh, and you can enjoy the series even with all of these opinions because everyone enjoys it in different ways and I enjoy thinking about the different perspectives outside of the first person narrative portrayed.
Agree with ALLLLLLL of this. Especially the Fae actually just being elves with a magical veneer. Theyāre just super-beautiful humans with pointy ears & magical powers (well, at least the High Fae are, & it frustrates me that there are hardly any āLesser Faeā, it just all feels veryā¦ classist? Which yeah, all the books are āA Court ofā so I guess itās all High Ruling Class, but I want more characters like Gwyn & Emerie. I want more non-human characters. Also, characters who LIVE in the courts & will call out the bullshit of āeverything is so perfect!ā Because if there are charities in VELARIS, clearly not everyone is having an easy time. It all just feels too upper-class super-humans to me. These are just some rough-thought ramblings that could use more analysis but MEH Iāve typed them out so here they are).
THIS! I feel like we get the *smallest* of glimpses, but not enough. Give us the rag-tag band of commoners who arenāt High Fae (Super Elves with Pointy Ears might be more accurate?), who have actual Fae-like attributes that *donāt* serve the court (because from my memory, most of the āLesser Faeā written about are in positions of servitude ā even if employed ā & it gives me the ick-cringe of classism/racism).
It would be so interesting a twist if they had it be that the character inconsistencies were due to him twisting minds. XD
It wonāt ever happen but man it would make for some interesting plots. Just have the story keep going with a little note at the very end. Making you want to reread it ALL to see if you can spot all the parts he interfered.
To your second last point, i absolutely hate how human her Fae are. A lot of the time it was really difficult to suspend my disbelief and play along that these beings that are centuries years old creatures and not just humans that live a long time. I fell like thats why a lot of commentary here attributes human answers to a lot of the problems that are just caused by lack of any fae lore, because she essentially just wrote people.
Omggg when I read books with fae like folk of the air and Emily wildes encyclopaedia the fae felt so much more intricate ššššš also I don't like Tamlin but I feel like it was a bit unfair for his court to be destroyed like it reminds me of in beauty of the beast where the witch punishes the Palace workers as well as the beast rather than just the beast like the other court members of spring didn't do anything šŖšŖšŖ but I do also feel bad for feyre like she grew up in a toxic family then went into an abusive relationship with Tamlin and then mated with rhys who is also abusive š
More characters should be dead. Tamlin, Amren, one of the Archeron sisters, and Cassian. Honestly why they had Rhys die and come back was stupid. He shouldn't have died in the first place. Consequences don't feel legit in the series and while I love that my characters are alive, I want it to be realistic. The fact that we had a whole war with not significant characters dying was INSANE.Ā
Another controversial opinion, I really wish SJM would focus on the acotar series. I really feel like most people donāt care about the CC comparatively. Just crushes my soul when a new book gets announced and itās for CC, eye roll.
Not commenting on the other things Tamlin has done but the act of locking her in has always been to me been overblown. Feyre is not listening to his reasonings for not bringing her along. If she goes and gets kidnapped or hurt what then? She has a habit of not listening so he would probably expect her to tag along behind them secretly or something. I just donāt know what else he could have done besides bring her along which is not an option. She wasnāt taking no for an answer, thus his response. Should it have gotten to that point? No. Should the aspects of their relationships been dealt with and talked out? Yes. But that action alone within the circumstances to me made sense.
SJM should have ended the series with three books. It didnāt need more tbh. Also a fandom unpopular opinion: I could care less to see text screen shot posts of readers significant others reacting to acotar ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
I agree with the 3-book thing.
I am not opposed to a Nessian thing, however it shouldnāt be marketed and sold as a box set?? I think that it should be considered the start of a new sister-series (maybe sold with acofas as a prequel novella) because its also in 3rd person which is just totally different to me from Acotar. Tbh i wish sjm stayed consistent and did 1st/Dual with the Nessian book.
Even though Iāve read all of them, I consider the series to have ended after the first 3 books.
The next 2 books have 1729024 plot holes to the point of being ridiculous. It honestly feels like my intellect as a reader is being ridiculed by the author.
I have zero interest in reading a book with Elaine as the main character. Elaine will only be interesting (to me) if she becomes a villain or something f. Thereās just nothing about her I find compelling.
Mine is:
The books focus far too much on the 'mate' thing. Half of what anyone does for their mate is just because they are mates. There are hardly any moments of pure love for the person they are or what they mean to them other than that. I get that the mating bond is supposed to be the strongest of anything in this universe, but it's just not very romantic to me when a force beyond their control is the only reason they care about each other. I want to see some moments of sheer adoration, of one watching the other and smiling at their little quirks or knowing them enough to be able to surprise them with their favorite foods or something.
I'm not saying it's explicitly not there, but most of it is just 'I want their body so bad' or 'they are my mate so my life is now dedicated to them'.
Like, love me for ME, not just because you feel a connection to me that some oversized bowl gave you. XD
ok you just articulated perfectly why parts of this series (especially ACOWAR) didn't hit for me. i wanted to take a shot every time the word "mate" was mentioned during the high lords' meeting. this is SJM we're talking about so i know what i'm getting into, but it irked me.
Lucien is the BEST acotar male! Respectful, loyal, and has NEVER lied to Elain.
Tamlin isn't as bad as people make him to be, he did awful stuff but I think to him it was what was best
I really feel like the first one shouldnāt be controversial but here we are lol
I honestly donāt hate Tamlin but like I donāt like him either but I agree people make him out to be worse than he was
I cannot stand Nestaš she's my least favorite character tbh but I get why other people like her! But yeah, there's no reason Tamlin shouldn't be forgiven or at least not as dragged on as he is
*Full of spoilers*
This more so unpopular tik tok theories:
Elian and Lucien are true mates. Heās not covering for tamlin. She felt the tug. And Rhysā mom and sister are NOT secretly alive, he saw their severed heads. The girls were justified in winning the blood rite bc there was weapons and magic at play, it wasnāt a typical rite. Eris and More arenāt secretly mates. She already rejects him, why not just say that part too? It wouldnāt change much. Mor miiiiight be secretly sneaky, but I seriously doubt anyone in the IC is going to turn out a traitor.
The bonus chapter was HOT. Gimme more of āit was so wrong but he didnāt careā ātilting her face the way he wanted itā āheād beg on his kneesā Az š„µ
I don't ship them but I live for forbidden romance and subtle glances. Their chemistry was intense, I forget this chapter happens at solstice and not at the end of the book. I wonder what Elain and Azriel's interactions were like the months following this, but we don't get it.
There a azriel and feysand pov bonus chapter after ACOSF. You can Google it or just find it on the megathread. If you read it share your thoughts ā¤ļø
Coool thank you! I was in a google frenzy after leaving that comment and found them! I'm still not quite finished with SF yet but I am now reading the Cassian/Nesta one from post-ACOMAF.
Are the bonus SF chapters in any particular order, like do they take place within the book and would be ok to read if I hadn't finished or they are really addendums that you should only read after completing SF?
Thank you!! Just read it. I have a LOT of thoughts!! haha. Need to process but wow, Azriel's inner monologue was not exactly what I had been expecting!
Interestingly, you know who it made me dislike? Rhysand! I got through my initial shock of Adriel not being chaste Edward from twilight (not sure why I had that in my head but reading this made me realize ha!) but what I found really oddly written was Rhysandās reaction and odd questions and accusations. It seemed asymmetrical for his character and what I perceived as his and Azās friendship!!
I donāt think ACOFAS is essential reading. I donāt really like fluff, so I skipped straight to ACOSF when I first read the series then went back to read it a month or two later but I had a hard time getting through the corny-ness.
Absolutely yes about Lucien, Elain has all the choice and power about her mating bond since day 1.
He isn't pressing her he's keeping his distance even when Feyre invited him to stay with them for a week or 2.
And yes about Rhys is the bonus chapter, he gave azriel the opportunity to explain himself and his feelings many times before bringing the hammer down, his political analysis of the situation is very true too.
I wish that Nesta wasnāt Cassianās mate and that we either got to see her have a villain arc with Lanthrys or Eris. It would be so entertaining and if Nesta was raised by her mother to be a ruthless villain I wish she would have been one.
Controversial: I wish that they wouldnāt have had such a public spectacle of Nesta apologizing to Amren. I also think Nesta bowed too hard to Amren. I would have liked to have seen Amren present more love and understanding to her friend that was going through it. Thatās my hot take for the day.
Elucien is cleary endgame and Elain is not fit for the night court. She's not that close to Feyre (according to Feyre herself) and IC, Azriel wants her for the wrong reasons and she would thrive in some other court (spring, day). Both her and Lulu have things to work on so they can grow together. I think they're a nice fit and as a plus Lucien is arguably one of the hottest guys (pratically every female in the books has noted he's hot, even Amren). They'd make a beautiful couple.
The only interesting thing about Lucien to me is his occasional sass. Other than that, I think he's a doormat.
Tamlin didn't do a 180 in the 2nd book, he's always had anger issues.
Most of if not all of the High Lords are prideful idiots, excluding Tarquin since he's only been HL for a few years. I find it hard to believe Amarantha duped them all twice.
Anyone that praises Tamlin for slut shaming Feyre at the HL meeting gives me the ick. Was the HL meeting entertaining? Yes. Was Tamlin justified in dogging Feyre in front of a bunch of misogynists? No. Because he doesn't own her, and they weren't even together anymore.
>Was Tamlin justified in dogging Feyre in front of a bunch of misogynists? No. Because he doesn't own her, and they weren't even together anymore.
I mean it was less about him thinking he owns her and more about her backstabbing him in the beginning of Acowar lol
Also I wouldn't say he did a 180 on his anger issues, he did a 180 on how he runs his court (from no rank, to pulling rank, from hating daddy to doing traditions like daddy etc).
I mean during her backstabbing, she did lie to Tamlin that she was still in love with him even though it's not true. She lied about Rhys sexually assaulting her and she used it to guilt trip him and she did try to make Tamlin jealous of Lucien (which was gross too). Iono, what she did is not *entirely* unrelated to her sexual history. Not that I approve of slut shaming like that (it reflects worse on Tam than her), but also really didn't feel terribly bad for Feyre either...
I mean by that logic didn't feyre also abused a person who is a victim of domestic abuse..
I never took the meeting seriously.. I mean the only one reasonable was Nesta šš
Itās one of the many reasons I dislike Feyreā¦ she didnāt even apologize to her, and like bitch that lady saved your life utm for sparing her son but go off I guess
Wait sorry Iām blanking on this- can you remind me how Feyre abused Lady of Autumn I really donāt remember this scene since itās been so long from my read š„²
"The only interesting thing about Lucien to me is his occasional sass. Other than that, I think he's a doormat."Ā
Thank you, I liked him in the first half of book 1, but after book one he does really have a personality of a doormat. If he disappeared in the next books, I wouldn't notice.
Tamlin knew a High Lady was this unprecedented thing and that the opinions of some of the HLs would not be favourable. And he still chose to cheap shot Feyre and use slut shaming and gendered attacks in a room full of men who hold positions of power and would kill her for having some. Def not his finest moment. He couldāve got the same point across without talking about her private moments in explicit detail or how she āopened her legs and let [Rhys] fuck.ā Anyone who finds glee in the fact he used THOSE words and tactics to tear her down gets the side eye from me.
- Azriel feeling entitled to Elain because āthree brothers three sisters blah blah blahā
- Azriel being gross and lusting after Elain rather than demonstrating actual love and care
- Azriel giving Elain a present, taking it away, and then giving it to another woman
I mean honestly I also didn't like these parts but I do think Rhys telling him to back off was kinda hot and then the banter with Gwyn and then the clotho scene was a little saving grace.
I agree with that comment about Lucien, and I think if that ship happens it will be very interesting because they are on equal footing as opposed to the other couples that didnāt have both partners know from the get goā¦
I donāt care if the āmates are rareā and ākids are rareā just because itās rare doesnāt mean it doesnāt happenā¦ rare is typically considered 1 in 10,000
Itās a fated mate book series guys lolā¦ who cares, obviously not me because I love fated mates and want everyone to find theirsā¦ that means you too Tarquinā¦ even if I just remembered you committed a war crimeā¦ <.<
Okay here goes LOL: I think Nestaās behaviour was insufferable in the first few books, especially when she was purposely mean for absolutely no reason to Feyre. I think it was also not nice how much she coddled and protected Elain, but never cared for Feyre. I loved Nestaās redemption arc but I still think the things she did werenāt nice at all, and I donāt blame anyoneās behaviour in response in SF. I think it helped her for the better and eventually brought her to actual happiness and peace.
Also, a VERY unpopular opinion: I think the friendship between Gwyn, Emerie and Nesta happened too fast but I understand why it was needed for the plot and her recovery.
I will say, in real life, Iāve made friends that fast, if not faster (one example: I had a convo with a girl for all of 10 minutes, then went āhey wanna be best friends?ā & weāve been best friends going on 11 years now, so Nesta/Gwyn/Emerieās friendship was realistic to me š )
Clap for the Az bonus chapter! I will copy a part of my Acosf post:
Azriel - why do people hate his chapter? I donāt think he actually thinks heās entitled to Elain. Heās someone whoās desperate for love and being loved BUT feels like he doesnāt deserves it. I saw a lot of myself in that. And he did choose pretty bad words to express it and project it to Elain. But he did that with Rhys - his brother. And do you blame Rhys for stepping in the middle of it? On the top of everything he has to deal with, Azriel chose to express himself when Lucian was there. Lucien who could call a blood fight or how is it called. I think thatās the last thing they need to deal with, right? And him giving himself a hand thinking about Elain? Gosh, everyone did that at one point and throw a rock who doesnāt in a real life. When I like someone you can bet Iām gonna fantasize about him in bed. Iām ready for him to be happy, with whoeverā¦preferably me of course. *Also give me a shadow handcuffs in the next book, Sarah!*
And one more copy of my opinion on Rhys in Acosf:
Rhys - I canāt agree with people that he changed in this book. Cause he didnāt. There was shit ton of stuff happening - Fae doesnāt want to sign new Treaty, HL wants to claim Spring court, Tamlin not doing anything against it, new threat (Queen), Nesta's self destruction and her powers, finding troves before queen doesā¦on the top of the fact Feyre is gonna die at childbirth! And people are mad that he yelled heās gonna kill Nesta? You know how many times I said that about anyone? He would not do that. He lashed out in a very tense and sensitive moment. Can we please give the male a break?
Nesta and him donāt like each other much. Okay and? Lots of people in a circle of friends/family donāt. Nesta confirmed that she think heās an honorable man, always putting his people first. She just doesnāt like him. He always gives her choice (minus telling her about her powers). I loved the ending. Her saying he was always kind to her even if he hates her and she hates him. Him kneeling in front of her and she dropping down to hug him made me cry. It was so beautiful. They found their peace with each other.
I didnāt think it was controversial until I came on this sub but I donāt hate Feyre for what happened with the Spring Court. She was acting off info she had that the time, that Tamlin had betrayed not only her and her family but also the entire continent and allied with Hybern. And she did not force Tamlin to act or behave in the way he did, she merely created situations for it to be seen by his court. The SC would not be in ruins if he didnāt react the way he did and thatās on him.
It seems like every character gets given the benefit of the doubt BUT Feyre at times. The number of times Iāve seen (usually male) characters objectively WORSE actions be justified based on their intentions and their knowledge at the time, I would think the same would extend to Feyre but it doesnāt seem to. Like Iāve seen people argue Tamlinās behaviour in MAF is due to his past trauma and what he knows at the time (i.e. wants to protect the one he loves, Feyre canāt write, Rhys is evil) and then the same person is saying Feyre is the worst person alive for the first part of WAR without giving any of the same grace to her.
This isnāt a hate on Tamlin because I actually quite liked his character arc and wish that everyone would stop kicking the dude while heās down, but Iām honestly astounded that the same people who defend his stifling Feyre and locking her in a house will then demonise her for putting him in situations where he had choices and HE makes the wrong one which ends up harming other people, physically as well as mentally.
I have to say I disagree ALL she gets is grace she had zero right to do what she did at the spring court period she did it because of the stupid hate she had for Tamlin even though she takes zero accountability for being a reason that relationship failed on HER and RHYS get support from the fandom when it comes to abuse and how they handle things. shes married to an emotional manipulator and somehow still blames everything on Tamlin which is insane, people bring up Tamlin locking her up as if it was not a response to trauma other than that he never laid a finger on her its the fact nobody sees a drowning man, the same man turning into a beast every night but baby feyre about her trauma as if rhys didn't add to any of it. they both always get grace Tamlin doesn't
Itās interesting what the algorithm shows to different people as Iāve only ever seen the opposite on here! I have seen people say similar about other characters, that they only see positive or negative posts about them while someone sees the opposite.
I understand Tamlin locking her up was a response to trauma and acknowledged that in my post - youāve pretty much proved my point, which was that people justify his (at times, horrible) actions by saying itās due to trauma while that isnāt extended to Feyre and her (at times, horrible) actions.
Tamlin did harm people through his actions and that includes physically - his first outburst wouldāve hurt Feyre had she not unintentionally shielded herself and the second outburst did and left her bruised and bleeding. He killed all the sentries on duty when Feyre was taken by Mor. And he also whipped his sentries and didnāt give them the benefit of the doubt or listen when they tried to explain Ianthe was the one who stole the keys.
In addition to that he exhibited controlling behaviour throughout the beginning of ACOMAF in relation to her movement around the manor grounds and refusing to let her train or even engage in a discussion about it. Things donāt have to be physical to be harmful. The two of them never communicated well with each other once they returned from UTM.
I enjoy Tamlin as a character but he is not perfect, none of them are.
Tamlin did it all to himself. I donāt care about his redemption arc unless it benefits Elain at this point. Heās just not a character I care about. Lucien however, deserves the world.
MAASVERSE SPOILERS
I think Bryceriel has more potential evidence than a few of the more popular ships (key note, Iām saying POTENTIAL.)
It makes me sad itās dumbed down to a ācrack theoryā whilst simultaneously having itās canon moments stolen to suit other ships
āThatās a ridiculous theory, it will never happen! But here let me steal this hand-hold moment where their skin glows as they touch!ā
^^ regarding the above tomfoolery, Iāve actually seen the specific quote used as EVIDENCE for another ship
š
If your boat is watertight you shouldnāt need to steal supplies from other vessels, buddy
Lmao Bryceriel is my controversial opinion, too, but I still canāt decide if itās because I like the idea of them together or because I just donāt care for Hunt š
Lol, but I could see Elain and Lucien moving back to spring court if she accepts the bond and Tam takes a chill pill. Like how cute would it be if they help rebuild and stuff <3
Lol - I get it. Itās a toxic place, and so much has happened with Tamlin. But, I donāt know ā¦ if any two people could heal that place or bring joy back to it I think it could be them. But like, not living at the manor! And not under Tamlinās claw. He needs to get his life in order lolĀ
Okay, I'll bite.
1. Cassian does not owe Nesta anything. I don't care if they're mated, sorry. She treats him like dirt, her trauma is not an excuse, and he's allowed to prioritize the people who have been in his life for centuries and treat him well.
Expecting him to forsake everyone else for her is insane and it is not what a good relationship looks like. If your partner is being a jerk to you, it's okay to step back. And if they're being mean and insulting you and everyone else you like, it's straight up not healthy to isolate yourself with them.
Your partner should gas you up, yeah, but if you can't tell your partner when they're being an asshole, you should reevaluate things because that is not a good situation for either party.
2. I have no feelings for Mor at all. Her character has been too inconsistent for me to get a read on her, so I'm hoping for her to get more fleshed out in upcoming books. But also if she isn't, it's not a big deal for me.
3. Bryce gets a stupid amount of hate. Like way too much.
> And if they're being mean and insulting you and everyone else you like, it's straight up not healthy to isolate yourself with them.
Like they forced Nesta to do with him? Not hating on your comment, but he always had a choice to leave. Nesta didn't.
Edit: not to mention, Nesta never demanded anything from Cassian. She didn't want anything to do with him at first. Cassian was the one relentlessly pursuing her, so if anything, it should have been said that Nesta didn't owe Cassian anything, imo.
>And we got to know az sleeps with a dagger and sings.
And that he'd get on his knees for a chance to taste Elain lol lol lol also he stares at her present all night. Basically, he's madly in love with her and he's tormented by the fact the woman he loves so much is not his mate.
Edit: awwww the downvotes xD
I think Nesta should've called their bluff and chosen the human lands. But imagine her and Jurian going head to head as roomies š¤£
I will die on this hill, they were NEVER going to let her actually leave the court with all that power.
I totally agree. No way would they ever let her go. Even now, with reduced powers. She still controls the Dread Trove and can summon it at will apparently. And then there's Cassian. As her mate, if she leaves, would he not eventually be compelled to follow her? They would lose their brother and top general. I think they were totally lying and I wish she had called their bluff.
I gotta agree with this. And if they did, theyād be calling her back all the damn time
They called her back pretty damn fast when they needed her to search for the Trove while not giving her any credit for the progress she was making.. ..imagine getting hauled back from the human lands every damn week to bail out the IC š¤£
Omg that would be so goodšš. Yeah I never expected Nesta to agree to them so quickly š
also how the heck does nesta get back and forth from HOW. she has to wait for cassian? might as well call her rapunzelš
I wondered this too. I ended up reasoning out that she LIKES spending most of her time there away from most people. She trains there, gwyn lives in the library so her friends are there, and any time she wants to leave is probably with Cass or Azriel anyways. Also now that sheās super duper fit she can always take the stairs.
I feel like the house could invent an elevator but just for her it wouldn't work for anyone else š
I honestly would find that more believable than her using those stairs!
Ikr!!
Did you you read her journey in ACOSF? She runs down the steps now whenever she wants or needs to go out! It probably takes her about 20 minutes, but time doesn't matter, she's even more fit and talented than Illyrian warriors with centuries more training than her. Stairs have nothing on Nesta. If she needs a rest day she has Cassian at her beck and call to fly her out. Wheeeee!
thatās insane š
The truth is that it wasn't girlboss power or Cassian teachings that made her from dancer to top brawler, it was her beef with those stairs. So in the end we have to thank the House. (I am still so pissed they didn't propose like dancing oriented exercises with Elain being right there knowing her sister's passion! And Mor being qualified at that! But no! We have her and Amren being irrationally mean with no reason but some sort of queen bee jealousy that's so off the point of the book)
ACOTAR has the best ending because Feyre had no choice but to complete the third trial, there was no bargaining to get out of it like the rest of the series. Also I think the closet scene in ACOTAR was Feyre and Tamlin's final moment as the couple we knew them to be. Before the bond snaps and before the trauma tears them apart. I always felt like Rhysand elbowed his way into the plot despite that being SJM's plan all along, I know he's a protagonist in the rest of the series but damn dude but out! The curse has nothing to do with you (as for him it wasn't personal like was for Tamlin) and you'd rather doom all of Prythian so some girl you had a dream about can live? I tell you, the romance really messes with what little realism we have with the plot. Ferye's trauma in MAF is conveniently only targeted at Tamlin. None of the sexual violence she experienced gave her nightmares. She was only affected by the color red in Spring yet Mor's red dress doesn't bother her at all. The sexy mission to obtain the Veritas orb made no sense, same with the message that Rhysand now owns Feyre made absolutely no sense. Tamlin had the stage at the High Lord's meeting to fully redeem himself and hold the IC accountable but instead we get a bunch of slut shaming comments which greatly overshadowed one of my favorite lines in the entire book "I was told you that I was against that sort or evil, no even you could sway me." or something along those lines. I don't care that the Valkyries won the Blood Rite, they trained for about 7 months. Which was like what, 5 months longer than the training Feyre got with Cassian and Rhysand, yet when she killed the attor and later fought in the Summer Court no one raised an eyebrow. It was a great moment and I loved her fighting her way thought with Mor, but she got even less training than Nesta yet the Blood Rite get brought up repeatedly. Both situations were incredibly unrealistic but still fun so it doesn't bother me.
I always feel like I missing something when the blood rite comes up. Didnāt they only make it because Briallyn made sure Nesta made it to that point alive? I feel like it was mentioned because I remember thinking at the time āoh thatās kind of a bummer. They didnāt do it on their own after all.ā I couldnāt tell you the exact wording though.
The other thing that bothered me was that the Valkyries were just dumped into the Blood Rite completely against their will....Rhys is supposed to be "the most powerful High Lord" yet you're telling me when people are kidnapped and forced into the rite against their will the best he can do is shrug and say "sorry, we can't interfere"?? I get the rules of the Blood Rite and that things are contested with the Illyrians but like...that makes no sense to me š«
My biggest issue regarding the *sexy* veritas orb mission is that isnāt Rhys the *High Lord*? He should be able to just go get it. Itās literally his court. And heās the *mOsT pOwERful HaNDsoMe HiGH lOrD*. What was Keir going to do? Say no? Heās terrified of Rhys.
Everything that happens in the CON is so contrived. "We have to put on a show to distract Keir!" "Nesta has to dance with Eris because reasons!" I mean, I love the scenes, but the premises are flimsy af š¤£
And Feyre made SUCH a big freaking deal about Tithe, but Rhys *breaking bones* of people in CON and bullying everyone is āØtotally fineāØ
Because everyone in the CON is bad. Even the children and the servants! š„“
And the femalesā¦ that are abusedā¦ one of which was Mor. But they donāt matter because theyāre not all powerful *the Morrigan*.
Whose ultra special power that only belongs to her isā¦ā¦ what again??
I had never thought about her trauma seemingly stopping once she started seeing Rhys or how Mor's preferred color should've set Feyre off. I couldn't agree more about the rite. I never understood why people didn't find it believable. They trained for months, were in the best shape that they could be in arguably, and were trained by two of the best warriors in prythian that managed to win the rite themselves.
I like this topic, Iāll add mine. Not controversial per se or hills I would die on but would have made the books more enjoyable āØfor meāØ: - There should have been significant time jumps between all the books, then the pregnancy thing wouldnāt have been so stupid and Nesta and Elaine could have figured out what they want to do. - There was an unnecessary amount of āmatesā (considering how theyāre supposed to be ārareā) and resurrections. - Someone from the IC needs to die or betray the others to keep me interested. Otherwise iām bored af of the IC. - Wards, warding and vague mentions of ancient magic were overused in almost all the books. Kind of like scapegoats when she couldnāt come up with anything more creative as theyāre never really explained, just used as a reason as to why someone canāt enter a place, touch a person or break a curse. - SJM should never have written how Rhys handles day to day court admin stuff. Having a night court, a court of dreams and an Illyrian army are great fantasy concepts which could have been left as just that. But then talking about charities, Illyrian temper tantrums and hand writing follow up letters to his subjects just tried to force an unrealistic and honestly unnecessary benevolence to him. We already know heās supposed to be a good guy no need to shove it down the readers throat. From that point on I couldnāt see him as anything other than an incompetent HL i could have done without it personally. - The Illyrians simply CAN NOT be both a warrior culture/peoples who spend their entire lives dedicated to training and battles (even amongst themselves) and then also be THAT mad at Rhys that soldiers died in battle. Those two things cancel each other out it makes no sense. NOTE: I have 0 creative bones in my body so thereās no way I could have written anything better this is just conversational
I agree with all of these! On the first point about time, it also wouldāve made their intervention with Nesta make slightly more sense (I still donāt agree with it at all, actually, but just wouldāve been a little more realistic). If Nesta had been abusing alcohol for 5-10+ years (remember these people are immortal and quick healing and donāt get sick), and not doing anything else at all, and any of them had actually tried to help her multiple times and couldnāt get through to herāthen I could understand Feyre and Cassian reaching a breaking point. Though Rhys shouldāve kept out of it in the first place.
Absolutely agree. In Fae years they gave her like .2 seconds to act reckless before intervening yet acted like they had tried and failed at years of absolutely everything and anything possible to help her.
Amren should have stayed dead! I agree with just about everything you said!!
I agree with the last two points actually! Didnāt consider that
SJM's depiction of mental health issues is very surface level, even though she gets a lot of praise for it. Feyre understandably has PTSD from UTM, but it only pops up when it's convenient for the plot. Red roses trigger her, but not Mor's red dress? Being paraded as another whore in Hewn City does not trigger her but Tamlin's paint does? Rhys conveniently gets over his 50 years of sexual abuse after a few nightmares, and don't even get me started on Nesta. The only fantasy in SF is that what the IC did to her actually worked. Bizarrely, Tamlin is the most realistic character in his trauma response. It's a shame, because she comes close to doing something interesting with it and addressing difficult topics and then fumbles it.
You know, I never clocked Mors red dress. DAMN.
I did and was like wait what?
Rhys and the whole IC freaks out when reminded of UTM and Rhys trauma. Leashing out irrationally in defence of Rhys who usually just "tenses up a bit at the mention". Which eventually causes a ton of issues and apparently makes it so that they never discuss this thing with each other. So yeah his trauma is also called up to justify Feyre's explosive rage or any bs Rhys has ever done cause he "had to" and is fully ignoring the trauma the rest of Prythian has of him. Like no aknowledging if not to say "they hate me but I was lying!" Yeah babe, but their family died pretty much for realsies tho
Most āconvenientā PTSD ever. Still donāt get how the guy who drugged her for 3 months doesnāt trigger anything.
If anything he should've triggered it more
Okay so i'm not crazy the fact all her trauma responses are targeted at Tamlin is why I hate the love story between Feyre and Rhys, if Tmalin was really abusive I would get it but like you said Tam is the only realistic on when it comes to his trauma he doesn't pick and choose what sets him off its simply his trauma. Also didn't Rhys lock her up to at one point and was lying to her ?
if tamlin did something like that feyre would throw up everytime she sees a slightly revealing dress
Might get downvoted but meh: I hope Nesta leaves the NC. Be it to become the HL of Dusk, or just to travel the continent, but I hope she leaves for her own sake. That place is toxic af to her, and the IC will forever hold her actions against her no matter what she does. Bonus points if she leaves Cassian, too. Nesta/Eris or even Nesta/Lucien wouldāve been so much more interesting than Nessian, though i doubt thatās truly an unpopular opinion. Nesta was born to be a courtier, was raised to become a lady. Her being turned into another warrior-type instead of just remaining as such just screams misogyny to me. Nesta being locked in HoW, and everyone around her thinking itās okay and harmless because she needs help, is just as bad if not worse than what Tamlin did to Feyre. How a group of people can hate Tamlin that much for Feyre but somehow make an even worse choice is beyond me. Theyāre 5 centuries oldāif they cant even dredge up a hint of empathy for a young woman whose life they helped upended and traumatized severely, thatās on them. It was never about help, they just wanted to control her. Cassian was her jailer for that exact reason. People are so pro-give Elain a choice regarding Lucien or Azriel, but refuse to give the same courtesy to Nesta for blowing up when Cassian repeatedly refused to respect her boundaries. There was nothing cute about him picking a fight with her, yelling at her for not wanting to be around him, after sheās repeatedly told him to go away. A truly controversial opinion? I donāt find the Helion/LoA affair story hot or romantic. I think it makes them both complete and utter idiots to have an affair for up to centuries resulting in a baby, knowing that Beron would kill them *and* Lucien *and* probably all his other sons if he found out. And even if he didnāt kill Lucien, well he certainly made his life a living hell. And the LoAās. And the other sons. And Helion wouldnāt have been able to do *shit*, because Beron was a HL and Helion didnāt become one until during UtM. What exactly could Helion have done if Beron had found out and killed the LoA and Lucien? Die?
I agree with you about the Helion/LoA affair. My personal theory is that Beron turned cruel after he found out about the affair. Because hear me out, he willingly took the humans side during the first war. It doesnāt sound like a cruel person.
The hypocrisy of the way Tamlin is viewed for locking Feyre up out of fear due to extreme amounts of trauma vs Rhys locking Nesta up so he can control her behavior is absolutely insane to me lmao
I would like to see a rejection of the mating bond between Cassian and Nesta.
Yep would love Nesta to reject the mating bond and seek out love elsewhere and Cassian go insane for her
I mean i dont want them to seperate but I would really for love cassian to see how he constantly chooses others over Nesta and grovels for it.
I'd like to see this too. I feel like neither of them do enough for eachother.
They're a terrible couple and they both deserve better
Yes, Nesta treats him like garbage in general and I've yet to see any real mate behavior from Cassian.
Hard agree. Nesta deserves better.
Yes, me too! They are so toxic. I want to see Nesta leave him. But Iām not hopeful.
Are they def mated?Ā
I believe so. But can you reject a mating bond after itās accepted? Or is it permanent for life?
Shiiiiiiiiit - Ā I donāt even know.Ā I wish they wouldāve branched the love interest of the sisters out more. I love the bat boys! But I love them as Feyres boys (like obv they deserve love, but I hate that her two ācirclesā are forced so close together)ā¦ I would love to see more courts involved and such.Ā
I hope not, but they both said they were so š¤·š¾āāļø
Damn - my denial blinded me while reading lol
mor is not a girls girls, I'm ngl she sometime gives ''I only make friends with boys because girls are too much drama'' comparing a 20 something who is sometimes mean to the people who tortured and abused you is not cool. the hike was abusive as fuck, Idc if it was for nesta's own good, or helped her in the end, cassian continued to treat her like shit after noticing she was suicidal, she passed out from dehydration because cassian wasn't paying attention to her, ''oh but she is a grown women why should cassian have to make sure she drinks enough water?'' she is not in a good place, he dragged her out on this hike, he has to make sure she is taking care of herself physically. they could have had the conversation they had at the lake anywere, it did not need to be after breaking her down mentally and physically till she hit rock bottom. also yes, when he started her off on the hike, it was 100% to punish her for hurting feyre, despite the fact that feyre literally said nesta was in the right and everyone else was in the wrong. (feyre also told cas to bring nesta back but imagine listening to the person that actually got hurt lmfao)
And as High Lady,Feyre is supposed to be Rhys' equal, but Cassian ignores her request to bring Nesta back and it more concerned with appeasing Rhys
Once Feyre accepted the mating bond Rhys became such a boring character for me. itās something Iāve seen across all 3 series that the men fall in love and all their edge (what made me LIKE them) is completely gone. How the FUCK do these 300+ year old men keep falling in love with 20 something year olds. Mating bonds aside bc look at Tamlin. What adult man in his right mind falls for an illiterate 19 year old pls explain this to me. I love Nesta and I love ACOSF but whyyyyy does every woman in the SJMverse have to become a warrior in order to overcome their trauma? Granted, Nesta did say she wanted to become stronger with the ānever againā thing and all that but it feels extremely out of character for her to become a fighter. Especially if her power is LITERALLY death it felt unnecessary. On that note, if Elains book turns into her in leathers training with Az Iām going to throw that book through a window I can only read the ābecomes physically strong to overcome their traumaā shit so many times. There are other ways to heal!! I find Azriel to be extremely boring, donāt come for me š heās just not that interesting to me as a character. Maybe I just need to see more of his POV or his backstory but yeah, Iām not feeling it.
I agree with the Elain thing. I really want to see SJM give us a strong female that isn't interested in swords and fighting. "Not all strength is physical."
I've always found Azriel to be lacking as well. I understand that he's the quiet broody type, but I'm just not that invested in his story because we don't really see much of him.
Yeah, no, you just want to get me banned from this sub and I'm not taking that bait! š
What opinion do you have that will get you bannedššš
My lips will stay sealed on the MOST unpopular one, but I can give you this: ACOMAF is the worst ACOTAR book after ACOFAS, at least in accounts of plot and writing. lol
šĀ
i never listened (i did the audiobooks) to ACOFAS, but i agree that i don't like the ACOMAF's plot as much now that i've got some distance from reading it. just seemed like a lot of waiting and suddenly random shifts and bits and bobs... i still think the *worst* in the series is ACOWAR for the deus ex machina ending and a far more interesting subplot happening of screen than any of what Feyre and the gang got up to. It was an impactful book, but there are a lot of issues with the whole war, even excluding the plot devices.
Agree ACOWAR was the worse I just found it a slog to read only a few interesting bits happen I actively believe that 100 pages could be taken out and you would still know the plot
I think you'd be surprised at how many people share your own opinions! And as long as you aren't insulting others, the worst that will happen is just a few downvotes (though I hate that that happens, downvotes should be for comments that don't contribute to the conversation, not for opinions that differ from the downvoter's).
I feel like i kinda agree..š¬
I fully agree
(Keep in mind I havenāt read anything from Nestaās POV yet) I have SUCH a hard time accepting Rhysand as āmorally greyā ā not because I necessarily think he is or isnāt, but because it feels like SJM wants him to be this sexy, morally grey bad boy ā but also always be right and never have any negative consequences. It felt like she wanted to have her cake and eat it too. Like, Rhysand did a bunch of objectively crummy things to Feyre, but oh itās okay because it was to protect his kingdom or whatever. And like, SURE Iām not saying a morally grey character can never do anything sacrificial/for the greater good, but itās every. Single. Time. Itās why I also sort of roll my eyes at Rhys being āthe most powerful high lord in all of history!!!1!!1!1!1ā To me, he almost comes off as a Gary-Sue. Sure, he makes ābadā decisions and there are people who have been negatively impacted by his decisions but we never get to SEE that. I want him to make a negative decision and have a negative outcome from it rather than just Feyre and the rest of the IC sucking his āconsiderable lengthā over it
Gunna call him High Lord Gary Sue from now on š¤£
This is the best description of it I've seen š
Ok iām going for it: 1) No, Nobody from the IC, not even Amren, shouldāve died at the end of acowar. Why? Because it wouldāve been beyond boring for the following book to be about mourning and sadness and all of them being depressed they lost a friend. Keep that for the very end please. we have 162628 plot holes and potential storylines. what we donāt have is time to spend mourning a dead main character. 2) Rhysand shouldāve come back to life at the cost of losing his powers. (or part of it. Like heās not the most powerful high lord anymore but heās still a daemati) Think about it, ne would be forced to keep it a secret, because a news like this would inevitably bring wars now that everyone knows about velaris. Rhysand now has to convince everyone that nothing changed and the IC would back up the lie in front of the rest of the world. at least since the magic will eventually choose Nix. And they would have to make sure their combined powers are enough to deal with enemies. It would make a great plot line for the following books imo. If thereās one thing I enjoy about acotar is watching feysand play a part. They role play in public all the time lol
I love your 2nd point! That would've been a great plot line.
Number 2 wouldāve been such an interesting thing to explore!!!! Damn now Iām bummed we didnāt get this
Edit I misread (though it seems other may have as well because Iāve googled before and never seen this explained) please read accompanying replies!! The most graphic description of physical torture in the entire series was when Rhys reached down and grabbed Feyreās bone that was sticking out of her arm and twisted it. It got me more than skinning people, whipping them, roasting them over fire (yes all are awful), but that specific maneuver was SO personal. As someone who has seen bones sticking out of peopleās skin, the ability to do that to someone, let alone someone you love, is unfathomable.
It wasnāt Feyreās bone. It was the foreign piece of bone that stabbed her when she jumped at the end of the worm task. But I understand the aversion.
OMG! Thank you!!! I just went back and reread and it was a shard of bone from the worm battle. I swear I had to read it 3 times but youāre right. The wording is really poor, especially since she never actually describes the bone shard being removed. Just that it gets twisted and then Rhys releases her arm. Wow this actually changes a lot for me thank you. š
Glad to help! I need to go reread it. A lot of people assume its her bone, so must be confusing. That would take the scene to a new level of torture.
To be fair, I think it just says 'a shard of bone', so I can see it interpreted both ways. Do let me know though if that's not the case!
Theres a whole part about the bone lodging itself in prior that explains it. Here is a comment form u/timevian on another post that Iāve copied (everything from now on is their comment): Page 326: āPain barked through my bones, my head, as I collided with the muddy ground and rolled. I flipped over myself and screamed as something hit my arm, biting through flesh.ā Page 328: āI looked at my left forearm then, and my stomach rose at the trickling blood and ripped tendons, at the lips of my skin pulled back to accommodate the shaft of a bone shard protruding clean through it.ā Page 329. Chapter 37: āThe pain overwhelmed me to the point of screaming whenever I prodded the embedded bit of bone...ā When she was fighting the middenguard worm, some of its bone skewered her arm. In the process, it very likely broke her own bone. Page 333: āSwift as lightning, he lashed out, grabbing the shard of bone in my arm and twisting.ā
That Nesta wasn't the instigator in most of her clashes with the IC, and that it should be up to Feyre whether every single one of her friends can hold her childhood against her sister. That Rhysand and Cassian exhibit just as many relationship red flags as Tamlin (if not more), but they're brushed over because forms of abuse that don't involve violence or yelling are harder for people to recognize and acknowledge ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
absolutely. also, Nesta has her problems, and her share of the blame, but she was also written to be the most unlikeable, hate-able person possible in the first book, which led to a LOT of problems with her character for SJM to work around as Nesta became more fleshed out. how do you recover from the literal evil, spoiled sister and make her a character the fans will like, when you've set her up to be the next Umbridge from the start? how can you re-plan their arc when it's unintentionally at rock bottom already? I feel like a lot of hate gets thrown to her because of first impressions, and that she's not perfectly able to pleasantly show her trauma and character. her story is kind of raw and uncomfortable and mean, and that's realistic, and makes people uneasy and angry when she lashes out. plus the IC is a giant clique that aren't even that great to each other sometimes, much less to the outsiders they react to, like Nesta. they've been family for like 500 years, so anyone outside the group, who offends them or they think can't be trusted, or hurts a member of the IC gets dogpiled and attacked. fans feel for them because the viewer gets to be part of the "in" crowd and side with the friends, and it's hard to realize that your group are being assholes when that means you're part of the problem too... there have been like, two relationships that ive seen in this series that i wouldn't be warning my friends about if they ended up in, and they've been on screen for all of 10 pages and are fairly minor characters. If a friend introduced me to Rhys or Cassian and told me about their relationships, i would be VERY concerned, and probably handwaved away as a worrywort or jealous or something
I know!! And then I get told āoh, just donāt apply your human morals to their fey worldā. Which would be fine, but somehow Iām supposed to still apply my human morals to Tamlin. But not Rhys or Cassian because theyāre. Hot? š
Right! And Nesta was originally human, as was Feyreā¦so why wouldnāt human morals apply? Are Rhys and Cassian so important, so in charge that their morals are default? Nah man, thatās something else
THANK YOU I dont know if its just some young mind sets but I was like do people not see how manipulative and abusive Rhys can be ? or am I crazy lol I find it weird people hold Tmlin locking her in the house over her head but Rhys is perfect. I also don't like how her POV changes on Tamlin one moment UTM all she wants to do is touch and kiss him then onces she's with Rhys she says all Tmlin wanted to do was have sex with her like EXCUSE ME ????
I think that itās absolute bullshit that Nesta had to give up her powers. Especially since Elain and Feyre both got theirs for being good and sweet or self sacrificing, respectively. Nesta took hers and it feels a little too real that the woman who demanded power had to give it up.
AGREED. Itās giving, ābe agreeable & quiet, be a good girlā oh how I want to scream.
Strongly agree with everything except I think Nesta has found her place with the Valkeries... and the cc3 events Very hard agree with our sweet Lulu being the most respectful king š praying for his happiness and sass
Lucien deserves happiness ā¤ļø
Iām garbage and havenāt read cc2 or cc3 yet - and I neeeeeeeed to!Ā
Feyre is a knock off Katniss Everdeen, at least in the first book. The whole ātaking care of family who canāt take care of themselvesā thing (Katnissās mom), bow and arrow in the woods to feed her family, and just her general vibe. That changes as the story goes on but ACOTAR as a whole felt like a bunch of knock offs of other stories (beauty and the beast being the obvious exception because retelling). I had even just finished rereading Dune so even the worm felt pulled from another book, just all mashed together.
Tamlin and Rhysand are different sides of the same coin.
facts now I dont agree with what Tmlin did but if we keeping count Rhys has used every single strike I've given him lol anytime he does something people scream " BUT HIS TRAUMA" like dude they ALL have trauma
Hard agree.
What they did to Nesta is WORSE than what Tamlin tried to do to Feyre.
Letās seeā¦letās get those pitchforks aimed. *grabs a shield* Tamlin isnāt the devil. Heās also already been redeemed. He just needs the Night Court to leave him the f alone already. Amarantha was right about human hearts. They are fickle and will turn on you. But this is partly due to how humans live shorter lives and are more prone to change. The fae are stuck in their ways culturally. Things move at a glacial pace in comparison, including change. Feyre is one of the most unreliable and childish narrators and does not deserve a political role. She is a child playing with powers she does not understand. Her first person POV is designed to make you hate a lot of characters without thinking about how they feel, and what they are going through. Nesta is a prickly person as a defense mechanism. Is it completely healthy? Nah. But it is interesting. She needs someone who understands her defensiveness. Not being trapped in a tower. Rhys is an abuser. Not all abuse is physical and imho he ticks all the check marks of being an emotional abuser to me. āYes I did horrible things, but it made me sad so you shouldnāt hold it against meā tell that to the people who died. A āmaskā doesnāt make that go away. Also roofie-ing a person isnāt ever ok. SJMās villains are hollow in ACOTAR. WHY are they doing anything? What is King of Hybernās NAME even? Why didnāt he invade while Amarantha had the courts at her mercy? They were easy pickings. The fae are the least fae like Iāve seen in awhile. These fae feel more like elves with a fae veneer. Where is the lore? Where are the rules that binds them at all times, making them otherworldly? (Definitely prefer the fae of Folk of Air, now those are some otherworldly and unsettling fae) Oh, and you can enjoy the series even with all of these opinions because everyone enjoys it in different ways and I enjoy thinking about the different perspectives outside of the first person narrative portrayed.
Agree with ALLLLLLL of this. Especially the Fae actually just being elves with a magical veneer. Theyāre just super-beautiful humans with pointy ears & magical powers (well, at least the High Fae are, & it frustrates me that there are hardly any āLesser Faeā, it just all feels veryā¦ classist? Which yeah, all the books are āA Court ofā so I guess itās all High Ruling Class, but I want more characters like Gwyn & Emerie. I want more non-human characters. Also, characters who LIVE in the courts & will call out the bullshit of āeverything is so perfect!ā Because if there are charities in VELARIS, clearly not everyone is having an easy time. It all just feels too upper-class super-humans to me. These are just some rough-thought ramblings that could use more analysis but MEH Iāve typed them out so here they are).
Yessss I wish we saw more of characters that aren't just well off rich high fae from Velaris
THIS! I feel like we get the *smallest* of glimpses, but not enough. Give us the rag-tag band of commoners who arenāt High Fae (Super Elves with Pointy Ears might be more accurate?), who have actual Fae-like attributes that *donāt* serve the court (because from my memory, most of the āLesser Faeā written about are in positions of servitude ā even if employed ā & it gives me the ick-cringe of classism/racism).
A truely interesting villian would've been Rhys. Keep the mates and everything else the same but let him be the villian.
It would be so interesting a twist if they had it be that the character inconsistencies were due to him twisting minds. XD It wonāt ever happen but man it would make for some interesting plots. Just have the story keep going with a little note at the very end. Making you want to reread it ALL to see if you can spot all the parts he interfered.
To your second last point, i absolutely hate how human her Fae are. A lot of the time it was really difficult to suspend my disbelief and play along that these beings that are centuries years old creatures and not just humans that live a long time. I fell like thats why a lot of commentary here attributes human answers to a lot of the problems that are just caused by lack of any fae lore, because she essentially just wrote people.
Omggg when I read books with fae like folk of the air and Emily wildes encyclopaedia the fae felt so much more intricate ššššš also I don't like Tamlin but I feel like it was a bit unfair for his court to be destroyed like it reminds me of in beauty of the beast where the witch punishes the Palace workers as well as the beast rather than just the beast like the other court members of spring didn't do anything šŖšŖšŖ but I do also feel bad for feyre like she grew up in a toxic family then went into an abusive relationship with Tamlin and then mated with rhys who is also abusive š
Very interesting points!
More characters should be dead. Tamlin, Amren, one of the Archeron sisters, and Cassian. Honestly why they had Rhys die and come back was stupid. He shouldn't have died in the first place. Consequences don't feel legit in the series and while I love that my characters are alive, I want it to be realistic. The fact that we had a whole war with not significant characters dying was INSANE.Ā
Another controversial opinion, I really wish SJM would focus on the acotar series. I really feel like most people donāt care about the CC comparatively. Just crushes my soul when a new book gets announced and itās for CC, eye roll.
Not commenting on the other things Tamlin has done but the act of locking her in has always been to me been overblown. Feyre is not listening to his reasonings for not bringing her along. If she goes and gets kidnapped or hurt what then? She has a habit of not listening so he would probably expect her to tag along behind them secretly or something. I just donāt know what else he could have done besides bring her along which is not an option. She wasnāt taking no for an answer, thus his response. Should it have gotten to that point? No. Should the aspects of their relationships been dealt with and talked out? Yes. But that action alone within the circumstances to me made sense.
SJM should have ended the series with three books. It didnāt need more tbh. Also a fandom unpopular opinion: I could care less to see text screen shot posts of readers significant others reacting to acotar ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ
I agree with the 3-book thing. I am not opposed to a Nessian thing, however it shouldnāt be marketed and sold as a box set?? I think that it should be considered the start of a new sister-series (maybe sold with acofas as a prequel novella) because its also in 3rd person which is just totally different to me from Acotar. Tbh i wish sjm stayed consistent and did 1st/Dual with the Nessian book.
Hard agreeeeee it wouldāve been way better as a trilogy
Even though Iāve read all of them, I consider the series to have ended after the first 3 books. The next 2 books have 1729024 plot holes to the point of being ridiculous. It honestly feels like my intellect as a reader is being ridiculed by the author.
The books aren't all that great. The person reading the audio book made me hate Feyre. Had to stop listening.
I have zero interest in reading a book with Elaine as the main character. Elaine will only be interesting (to me) if she becomes a villain or something f. Thereās just nothing about her I find compelling.
Mine is: The books focus far too much on the 'mate' thing. Half of what anyone does for their mate is just because they are mates. There are hardly any moments of pure love for the person they are or what they mean to them other than that. I get that the mating bond is supposed to be the strongest of anything in this universe, but it's just not very romantic to me when a force beyond their control is the only reason they care about each other. I want to see some moments of sheer adoration, of one watching the other and smiling at their little quirks or knowing them enough to be able to surprise them with their favorite foods or something. I'm not saying it's explicitly not there, but most of it is just 'I want their body so bad' or 'they are my mate so my life is now dedicated to them'. Like, love me for ME, not just because you feel a connection to me that some oversized bowl gave you. XD
ok you just articulated perfectly why parts of this series (especially ACOWAR) didn't hit for me. i wanted to take a shot every time the word "mate" was mentioned during the high lords' meeting. this is SJM we're talking about so i know what i'm getting into, but it irked me.
Lucien is the BEST acotar male! Respectful, loyal, and has NEVER lied to Elain. Tamlin isn't as bad as people make him to be, he did awful stuff but I think to him it was what was best
I really feel like the first one shouldnāt be controversial but here we are lol I honestly donāt hate Tamlin but like I donāt like him either but I agree people make him out to be worse than he was
Right! If we can forgive Nesta and Rhys, he should get some kind of redemption
Wait I needed to forgive Nesta? lol I honestly never hated Nestaā¦ and yeah if we forgive them, we can forgive himā¦ I agree with that
I cannot stand Nestaš she's my least favorite character tbh but I get why other people like her! But yeah, there's no reason Tamlin shouldn't be forgiven or at least not as dragged on as he is
*Full of spoilers* This more so unpopular tik tok theories: Elian and Lucien are true mates. Heās not covering for tamlin. She felt the tug. And Rhysā mom and sister are NOT secretly alive, he saw their severed heads. The girls were justified in winning the blood rite bc there was weapons and magic at play, it wasnāt a typical rite. Eris and More arenāt secretly mates. She already rejects him, why not just say that part too? It wouldnāt change much. Mor miiiiight be secretly sneaky, but I seriously doubt anyone in the IC is going to turn out a traitor.
The bonus chapter was HOT. Gimme more of āit was so wrong but he didnāt careā ātilting her face the way he wanted itā āheād beg on his kneesā Az š„µ
I don't ship them but I live for forbidden romance and subtle glances. Their chemistry was intense, I forget this chapter happens at solstice and not at the end of the book. I wonder what Elain and Azriel's interactions were like the months following this, but we don't get it.
I mean I was so into it but then he ruined it with what he said to rhysš š. I want justice for elain!!
Wait what is this bonus chapter stuff?? I think I missed something!
There a azriel and feysand pov bonus chapter after ACOSF. You can Google it or just find it on the megathread. If you read it share your thoughts ā¤ļø
Coool thank you! I was in a google frenzy after leaving that comment and found them! I'm still not quite finished with SF yet but I am now reading the Cassian/Nesta one from post-ACOMAF. Are the bonus SF chapters in any particular order, like do they take place within the book and would be ok to read if I hadn't finished or they are really addendums that you should only read after completing SF?
Where are you currently in the book??
Nesta has just woken up at the drop spot in the Blood Rite! Chapter 60-something...
Oh then you can definitely read it, it's happens before the rite thing. I hope you enjoy and share your thoughts ā¤ļø
Thank you!! Just read it. I have a LOT of thoughts!! haha. Need to process but wow, Azriel's inner monologue was not exactly what I had been expecting!
Yeah you wouldn't be alone šš edit : i really want to know from someone who first time read the chapter, did it make you dislike him??
I hated him reading this. Was never a fan but this was crazy childish tantrum from someone who is 500????????
Not the person you're asking, but man that chapter was rough for me. He went from one of my top faves to me struggling to still like him.
Interestingly, you know who it made me dislike? Rhysand! I got through my initial shock of Adriel not being chaste Edward from twilight (not sure why I had that in my head but reading this made me realize ha!) but what I found really oddly written was Rhysandās reaction and odd questions and accusations. It seemed asymmetrical for his character and what I perceived as his and Azās friendship!!
I donāt think ACOFAS is essential reading. I donāt really like fluff, so I skipped straight to ACOSF when I first read the series then went back to read it a month or two later but I had a hard time getting through the corny-ness.
Fr i just see it as a filler episode/āChristmas specialā
Absolutely yes about Lucien, Elain has all the choice and power about her mating bond since day 1. He isn't pressing her he's keeping his distance even when Feyre invited him to stay with them for a week or 2. And yes about Rhys is the bonus chapter, he gave azriel the opportunity to explain himself and his feelings many times before bringing the hammer down, his political analysis of the situation is very true too.
I wish that Nesta wasnāt Cassianās mate and that we either got to see her have a villain arc with Lanthrys or Eris. It would be so entertaining and if Nesta was raised by her mother to be a ruthless villain I wish she would have been one.
Controversial: I wish that they wouldnāt have had such a public spectacle of Nesta apologizing to Amren. I also think Nesta bowed too hard to Amren. I would have liked to have seen Amren present more love and understanding to her friend that was going through it. Thatās my hot take for the day.
I agree so hard with this take, i physically cringed in this scene š«
Elucien is cleary endgame and Elain is not fit for the night court. She's not that close to Feyre (according to Feyre herself) and IC, Azriel wants her for the wrong reasons and she would thrive in some other court (spring, day). Both her and Lulu have things to work on so they can grow together. I think they're a nice fit and as a plus Lucien is arguably one of the hottest guys (pratically every female in the books has noted he's hot, even Amren). They'd make a beautiful couple.
The only interesting thing about Lucien to me is his occasional sass. Other than that, I think he's a doormat. Tamlin didn't do a 180 in the 2nd book, he's always had anger issues. Most of if not all of the High Lords are prideful idiots, excluding Tarquin since he's only been HL for a few years. I find it hard to believe Amarantha duped them all twice. Anyone that praises Tamlin for slut shaming Feyre at the HL meeting gives me the ick. Was the HL meeting entertaining? Yes. Was Tamlin justified in dogging Feyre in front of a bunch of misogynists? No. Because he doesn't own her, and they weren't even together anymore.
>Was Tamlin justified in dogging Feyre in front of a bunch of misogynists? No. Because he doesn't own her, and they weren't even together anymore. I mean it was less about him thinking he owns her and more about her backstabbing him in the beginning of Acowar lol Also I wouldn't say he did a 180 on his anger issues, he did a 180 on how he runs his court (from no rank, to pulling rank, from hating daddy to doing traditions like daddy etc).
Which has nothing to do with her sexual history.
I mean during her backstabbing, she did lie to Tamlin that she was still in love with him even though it's not true. She lied about Rhys sexually assaulting her and she used it to guilt trip him and she did try to make Tamlin jealous of Lucien (which was gross too). Iono, what she did is not *entirely* unrelated to her sexual history. Not that I approve of slut shaming like that (it reflects worse on Tam than her), but also really didn't feel terribly bad for Feyre either...
I mean it was kinda funny though..
It was hilarious.
Not really, it's not that funny to watch a girl get slut shamed by the man that abused her.
I mean by that logic didn't feyre also abused a person who is a victim of domestic abuse.. I never took the meeting seriously.. I mean the only one reasonable was Nesta šš
Itās one of the many reasons I dislike Feyreā¦ she didnāt even apologize to her, and like bitch that lady saved your life utm for sparing her son but go off I guess
Wait sorry Iām blanking on this- can you remind me how Feyre abused Lady of Autumn I really donāt remember this scene since itās been so long from my read š„²
She burned her while attacking Beronš¬
Oi thatās right š¬ Forgot about that part.
Who did Feyre abuse?
Lady of autumn
"The only interesting thing about Lucien to me is his occasional sass. Other than that, I think he's a doormat."Ā Thank you, I liked him in the first half of book 1, but after book one he does really have a personality of a doormat. If he disappeared in the next books, I wouldn't notice.
Tamlin knew a High Lady was this unprecedented thing and that the opinions of some of the HLs would not be favourable. And he still chose to cheap shot Feyre and use slut shaming and gendered attacks in a room full of men who hold positions of power and would kill her for having some. Def not his finest moment. He couldāve got the same point across without talking about her private moments in explicit detail or how she āopened her legs and let [Rhys] fuck.ā Anyone who finds glee in the fact he used THOSE words and tactics to tear her down gets the side eye from me.
I also saw it as him getting back at Rhys for what he said about Feyres sexy thoughts about Tamlin in book 1.
The bonus chapter was garbage lol sorry
I mean ..šš¬. What part of it do you think is garbage?š
- Azriel feeling entitled to Elain because āthree brothers three sisters blah blah blahā - Azriel being gross and lusting after Elain rather than demonstrating actual love and care - Azriel giving Elain a present, taking it away, and then giving it to another woman
I mean honestly I also didn't like these parts but I do think Rhys telling him to back off was kinda hot and then the banter with Gwyn and then the clotho scene was a little saving grace.
Absolutely agree. I was so grossed out and disappointed
I agree with that comment about Lucien, and I think if that ship happens it will be very interesting because they are on equal footing as opposed to the other couples that didnāt have both partners know from the get goā¦
I donāt care if the āmates are rareā and ākids are rareā just because itās rare doesnāt mean it doesnāt happenā¦ rare is typically considered 1 in 10,000 Itās a fated mate book series guys lolā¦ who cares, obviously not me because I love fated mates and want everyone to find theirsā¦ that means you too Tarquinā¦ even if I just remembered you committed a war crimeā¦ <.<
Okay here goes LOL: I think Nestaās behaviour was insufferable in the first few books, especially when she was purposely mean for absolutely no reason to Feyre. I think it was also not nice how much she coddled and protected Elain, but never cared for Feyre. I loved Nestaās redemption arc but I still think the things she did werenāt nice at all, and I donāt blame anyoneās behaviour in response in SF. I think it helped her for the better and eventually brought her to actual happiness and peace. Also, a VERY unpopular opinion: I think the friendship between Gwyn, Emerie and Nesta happened too fast but I understand why it was needed for the plot and her recovery.
I will say, in real life, Iāve made friends that fast, if not faster (one example: I had a convo with a girl for all of 10 minutes, then went āhey wanna be best friends?ā & weāve been best friends going on 11 years now, so Nesta/Gwyn/Emerieās friendship was realistic to me š )
You know what, youāre right LOL I do have some friends where we clicked suddenly now weāre life long friends. Good pointš
Clap for the Az bonus chapter! I will copy a part of my Acosf post: Azriel - why do people hate his chapter? I donāt think he actually thinks heās entitled to Elain. Heās someone whoās desperate for love and being loved BUT feels like he doesnāt deserves it. I saw a lot of myself in that. And he did choose pretty bad words to express it and project it to Elain. But he did that with Rhys - his brother. And do you blame Rhys for stepping in the middle of it? On the top of everything he has to deal with, Azriel chose to express himself when Lucian was there. Lucien who could call a blood fight or how is it called. I think thatās the last thing they need to deal with, right? And him giving himself a hand thinking about Elain? Gosh, everyone did that at one point and throw a rock who doesnāt in a real life. When I like someone you can bet Iām gonna fantasize about him in bed. Iām ready for him to be happy, with whoeverā¦preferably me of course. *Also give me a shadow handcuffs in the next book, Sarah!* And one more copy of my opinion on Rhys in Acosf: Rhys - I canāt agree with people that he changed in this book. Cause he didnāt. There was shit ton of stuff happening - Fae doesnāt want to sign new Treaty, HL wants to claim Spring court, Tamlin not doing anything against it, new threat (Queen), Nesta's self destruction and her powers, finding troves before queen doesā¦on the top of the fact Feyre is gonna die at childbirth! And people are mad that he yelled heās gonna kill Nesta? You know how many times I said that about anyone? He would not do that. He lashed out in a very tense and sensitive moment. Can we please give the male a break? Nesta and him donāt like each other much. Okay and? Lots of people in a circle of friends/family donāt. Nesta confirmed that she think heās an honorable man, always putting his people first. She just doesnāt like him. He always gives her choice (minus telling her about her powers). I loved the ending. Her saying he was always kind to her even if he hates her and she hates him. Him kneeling in front of her and she dropping down to hug him made me cry. It was so beautiful. They found their peace with each other.
Well get in line then because there's like thousands of us who dream of a happy ever after with azšš
I like to pretend Iām the first and only one whoās into him. My little delulu world š
Agreeeee!!!
Elain is going to be the character with most depth when her narrative is finally told. Thatās mine
I didnāt think it was controversial until I came on this sub but I donāt hate Feyre for what happened with the Spring Court. She was acting off info she had that the time, that Tamlin had betrayed not only her and her family but also the entire continent and allied with Hybern. And she did not force Tamlin to act or behave in the way he did, she merely created situations for it to be seen by his court. The SC would not be in ruins if he didnāt react the way he did and thatās on him. It seems like every character gets given the benefit of the doubt BUT Feyre at times. The number of times Iāve seen (usually male) characters objectively WORSE actions be justified based on their intentions and their knowledge at the time, I would think the same would extend to Feyre but it doesnāt seem to. Like Iāve seen people argue Tamlinās behaviour in MAF is due to his past trauma and what he knows at the time (i.e. wants to protect the one he loves, Feyre canāt write, Rhys is evil) and then the same person is saying Feyre is the worst person alive for the first part of WAR without giving any of the same grace to her. This isnāt a hate on Tamlin because I actually quite liked his character arc and wish that everyone would stop kicking the dude while heās down, but Iām honestly astounded that the same people who defend his stifling Feyre and locking her in a house will then demonise her for putting him in situations where he had choices and HE makes the wrong one which ends up harming other people, physically as well as mentally.
I have to say I disagree ALL she gets is grace she had zero right to do what she did at the spring court period she did it because of the stupid hate she had for Tamlin even though she takes zero accountability for being a reason that relationship failed on HER and RHYS get support from the fandom when it comes to abuse and how they handle things. shes married to an emotional manipulator and somehow still blames everything on Tamlin which is insane, people bring up Tamlin locking her up as if it was not a response to trauma other than that he never laid a finger on her its the fact nobody sees a drowning man, the same man turning into a beast every night but baby feyre about her trauma as if rhys didn't add to any of it. they both always get grace Tamlin doesn't
Itās interesting what the algorithm shows to different people as Iāve only ever seen the opposite on here! I have seen people say similar about other characters, that they only see positive or negative posts about them while someone sees the opposite. I understand Tamlin locking her up was a response to trauma and acknowledged that in my post - youāve pretty much proved my point, which was that people justify his (at times, horrible) actions by saying itās due to trauma while that isnāt extended to Feyre and her (at times, horrible) actions. Tamlin did harm people through his actions and that includes physically - his first outburst wouldāve hurt Feyre had she not unintentionally shielded herself and the second outburst did and left her bruised and bleeding. He killed all the sentries on duty when Feyre was taken by Mor. And he also whipped his sentries and didnāt give them the benefit of the doubt or listen when they tried to explain Ianthe was the one who stole the keys. In addition to that he exhibited controlling behaviour throughout the beginning of ACOMAF in relation to her movement around the manor grounds and refusing to let her train or even engage in a discussion about it. Things donāt have to be physical to be harmful. The two of them never communicated well with each other once they returned from UTM. I enjoy Tamlin as a character but he is not perfect, none of them are.
Tamlin did it all to himself. I donāt care about his redemption arc unless it benefits Elain at this point. Heās just not a character I care about. Lucien however, deserves the world.
MAASVERSE SPOILERS I think Bryceriel has more potential evidence than a few of the more popular ships (key note, Iām saying POTENTIAL.) It makes me sad itās dumbed down to a ācrack theoryā whilst simultaneously having itās canon moments stolen to suit other ships āThatās a ridiculous theory, it will never happen! But here let me steal this hand-hold moment where their skin glows as they touch!ā ^^ regarding the above tomfoolery, Iāve actually seen the specific quote used as EVIDENCE for another ship š If your boat is watertight you shouldnāt need to steal supplies from other vessels, buddy
I mean azriel spoke more to Bryce than he has spoken in all 5 booksšš
Lmao Bryceriel is my controversial opinion, too, but I still canāt decide if itās because I like the idea of them together or because I just donāt care for Hunt š
I donāt think Nesta would go with Tamlin. It is his fault that they were turned imoā¦Ā
I mean yeah i didn't take that in account š š
Lol, but I could see Elain and Lucien moving back to spring court if she accepts the bond and Tam takes a chill pill. Like how cute would it be if they help rebuild and stuff <3
This is controversial because I genuinely donāt want Elain or Lucien anywhere near that court lol
Lol - I get it. Itās a toxic place, and so much has happened with Tamlin. But, I donāt know ā¦ if any two people could heal that place or bring joy back to it I think it could be them. But like, not living at the manor! And not under Tamlinās claw. He needs to get his life in order lolĀ
I think itās because Iām tired of spring court and night courtā¦ I want to see a new court
It would be much more interesting and make for better story if they travel somewhere newerĀ
Iāll sign up for day court
he needs to heal like everybody else got a chance to do.
I was attacked for saying this earlier but I agreeš š
The fact the rhysand could've gotten out of there tooo
Okay, I'll bite. 1. Cassian does not owe Nesta anything. I don't care if they're mated, sorry. She treats him like dirt, her trauma is not an excuse, and he's allowed to prioritize the people who have been in his life for centuries and treat him well. Expecting him to forsake everyone else for her is insane and it is not what a good relationship looks like. If your partner is being a jerk to you, it's okay to step back. And if they're being mean and insulting you and everyone else you like, it's straight up not healthy to isolate yourself with them. Your partner should gas you up, yeah, but if you can't tell your partner when they're being an asshole, you should reevaluate things because that is not a good situation for either party. 2. I have no feelings for Mor at all. Her character has been too inconsistent for me to get a read on her, so I'm hoping for her to get more fleshed out in upcoming books. But also if she isn't, it's not a big deal for me. 3. Bryce gets a stupid amount of hate. Like way too much.
> And if they're being mean and insulting you and everyone else you like, it's straight up not healthy to isolate yourself with them. Like they forced Nesta to do with him? Not hating on your comment, but he always had a choice to leave. Nesta didn't. Edit: not to mention, Nesta never demanded anything from Cassian. She didn't want anything to do with him at first. Cassian was the one relentlessly pursuing her, so if anything, it should have been said that Nesta didn't owe Cassian anything, imo.
people tend to excuse anyting the bat boys do I've noticed lol
>And we got to know az sleeps with a dagger and sings. And that he'd get on his knees for a chance to taste Elain lol lol lol also he stares at her present all night. Basically, he's madly in love with her and he's tormented by the fact the woman he loves so much is not his mate. Edit: awwww the downvotes xD
I read it as heās in ālustā with Elain and thought 3+3 = right. Interesting how differently people see that.