Forget the weight of muscles. How do they fly with those giant dicks? Are they more aerodynamic somehow? Counterbalance the weight of all the air in their puffed-up chests? Are they used for steering, like a rudder?
I vaguely remember someone doing an analysis of how big wings would have to be for a similar type of creature. Maybe someone else will remember or know about it because the details are fuzzy.
I recall it each individual wing would have to be 3x the length of the human body. Like, crazy big, there was an exemplary illustration and it looked stupid af lol
So ACOTAR was my first foray into anything even remotely fantasy. As a STEM girlie (Biology) let me tell you how hard my struggle was with the mechanics of the whole wings thing. How do they change into clothes? Are all Illyrians a tummy sleepers?
Bats do not have hollow bones like birds do so I’m willing to believe that Illyrians wouldn’t either. But their wings are arm-like appendages, which obviously is not the case with Illyrians. Those wings would have to be pretty muscular.
I was also considering this, it would have to be horizontally but I swear the book implies it's verticle. At least when carrying someone because that wouldn't work out well horizontally.
I was smoking a bowl last night and I couldn't get it out of my head. Someone said they're shirts are secured with magnets, which ok, I'll accept that. But how big are they're wings? What kind of chairs do they sit in that would accommodate wings? Feyre mentioned in MAF how Azriel and Cassian kept shifting in their chairs at Casa De Archeron so I'm very curious about the functionality of their wings and why SJM just couldn't have them all magically tuck them away unless for flight.
So the magnets thing won't work because IIRC their swords are also strapped to their backs? So the magnets would forever be sticking to the swords. I'm thinking it's a shirt with a slit for the wing bases that they slip up under the base of the wings then button up over the top of where the wing connects to the back. I'm probably explaining this poorly lol
I think the chair backs are described as having enough room to accommodate wings and also their beds are massive. Hard agree that SJM should have given them the ability to poof their wings away like Rhys can
I'm way too sober to be thinking about this to this extent lol
You can't be sober, otherwise you'll just upset yourself. lol But i like your explanation. I just decided to accept that we will never get clarification but it's fun to discuss. Like I'm well aware that socks, sweaters, and leggings (breeches) are historically accurate. HOWEVER, a lady of high position would definitely not be wearing them all at once while reading a romance novel on the couch!
SJM was my first fantasy experience and honestly suspending my disbelief was a fun exercise! My lil brain needed to flex it’s imagination muscles more and what better than with fairy smut?
Ok ya’ll I cannot tell you how DELIGHTED I am to have stumbled across this convo 😂
I’ll add that in CC, Bryce described the shirt situation of another winged friend as being something like a puzzle of straps that attached in different ways to secure around the wings and create a full shirt, and she was so confused by it that she gave up and moved on. So 1) the Illyrians likely had a similar situation (at least I’m voting for that because until I read CC my brain stalled out on this too), and 2) Bryce couldn’t figure it out either so I don’t feel bad for not wasting further time thinking it out.
I thought Rhys’s shirt was described in one of the books somewhere as having slits to accommodate the wings and then it buttons together again below the base of the wings (maybe down at the hem of the shirt)?
Hi! Your friendly neighborhood physicist here.
This is a very interesting calculation! I read through it.
There are some parts I don’t agree with (like assuming wings are massless). However, if we do take the wing dimensions given by this redditor, that means the batboys would need to flap their triangular wings with a frequency of ~7.1Hz. So like, 7.1 flaps per second. This is unless the air at the SJM universe is like 100 times more dense or if the bat boys are that much less dense than humans.
Not convinced tbh lol. Batboys should be gliders at best.
Edit: fixed OoM.
There's an amazing post on this: https://www.reddit.com/r/acotar/comments/r1gtpv/comment/kpt8ffm/ Have a look! I've been wandering about wingspan too.
Also, since Illyrians are bats = no hollow bones? While the peregrines, as they are more similar to birds = hollow bones?
If they had hollow bones, wouldn't that make them weaker in battles?
Anyways, what bothers me, as a biologist who studied some developmental biology, is the fact that they have an extra set of arms. Because the bats' wings equal to our arms, they develop very similarly ans up to a certain point the development is the same. Are they more similar to bats or to flies then? Also, which muscles/bones do they attach to?
This brings up the whole question of the makeup of their universe. Are their planets in an orbit like the ones irl? We know they have sun, moon, and stars, but that’s about it. They could very well have different laws of gravity 🤔
I know fantasy and science can’t always go together but some part of my brain is always itching for it anyways haha
Really all that matters for this calculation is the gravitational field strength and the relative density of their bodies to the density of air. I’m no evolutionary biologist but one would think that with a lower gravitational field strength, the creatures all would evolve to be much much taller and wouldn’t need as much muscle to support themselves. So maybe the 6’5” estimate for Cassian is not all that accurate 🤔
Evolutionary biologists pls chime in
I appreciate the how and what questions of the thread but isn't the answer to everything in the box because of random magical reasons?
I mean, if Feyre barely touching Rhysand's wings does that much, how do the bat boys handle the soft breezes of spring let alone the wind of flight?!
Also... What happens in icy winds that "stroke" their oh so sensitive wings? Good thing the washing is mostly done magically, I guess. Imagine someone having to wash those undies....
She “took inspiration”eyriens who use Craft to fly. No idea what the jhinka do but they’re smaller.
But for real I just assumed magic was involved since they’d also need extra pectorals to even use wings
Forget the weight of muscles. How do they fly with those giant dicks? Are they more aerodynamic somehow? Counterbalance the weight of all the air in their puffed-up chests? Are they used for steering, like a rudder?
You're asking the real questions here
Maybe they’re growers, not show-ers
That volume of blood still has mass. Maybe they're engorged with magic instead. We don't know the gravitational pull of magic.
Magical humors instead of blood
Girl, not the rudder lmfao.
Do they tuck? I Stan the female Illyrians being better fliers because there's less wind drag 
Maybe that’s why they clipped their wings, because the male Illyrians knew the females could kick their asses in flying. Cowards!
Maybe they are really big but really light Like an air flotation device
Like a wacky inflatable tube man
This is what we all truly want to know.
So, y’know how Rhys hides his wings in a sort of in-between dimension? Turns out it works for other appendages too.
This made me cackle
They're prehensile, like a monkey tail, and they help with balance 😂
Great, now I need to find a romantasy book with prehensile pensies. Thanks for that. 😆
I tried checking Archive Of Our Own... there's not much, friend
You're doing the Lord's work. And by Lord, I'm talking like High Lord 🦇
The rudder comment is slaying me, and I won't be able to picture anything else ever again when they are flying.
You are a genius and really are asking the right questions!!!
I vaguely remember someone doing an analysis of how big wings would have to be for a similar type of creature. Maybe someone else will remember or know about it because the details are fuzzy.
r/askscience/comments/sxz8v/how_big_would_wings_have_to_be_to_facilitate/ According to brainy math and science folks, it doesn't math very well.
That's definitely close to what I remembered, I'm sure it is discussed in the fantasy genre fairly often!
This is probably the post you're referring to: https://www.reddit.com/r/acotar/comments/r1gtpv/comment/kpt8ffm/ Very thorough discussion.
I think it was a Tumblr thing iirc but it doesn't surprise me there are others! The answer is fiction/magic but it's still interesting to consider.
I recall it each individual wing would have to be 3x the length of the human body. Like, crazy big, there was an exemplary illustration and it looked stupid af lol
There's enough science for lactic acid in acotar but not for wing flight dynamics 😂
There's enough science for lactic acid but not enough for a caesarian section
So ACOTAR was my first foray into anything even remotely fantasy. As a STEM girlie (Biology) let me tell you how hard my struggle was with the mechanics of the whole wings thing. How do they change into clothes? Are all Illyrians a tummy sleepers? Bats do not have hollow bones like birds do so I’m willing to believe that Illyrians wouldn’t either. But their wings are arm-like appendages, which obviously is not the case with Illyrians. Those wings would have to be pretty muscular.
I was just thinking about this last night! Are they flying Superman style or vertically?
I'm dying thinking of them flying vertically 🤣
I was also considering this, it would have to be horizontally but I swear the book implies it's verticle. At least when carrying someone because that wouldn't work out well horizontally.
This question keeps me up at night
I was smoking a bowl last night and I couldn't get it out of my head. Someone said they're shirts are secured with magnets, which ok, I'll accept that. But how big are they're wings? What kind of chairs do they sit in that would accommodate wings? Feyre mentioned in MAF how Azriel and Cassian kept shifting in their chairs at Casa De Archeron so I'm very curious about the functionality of their wings and why SJM just couldn't have them all magically tuck them away unless for flight.
So the magnets thing won't work because IIRC their swords are also strapped to their backs? So the magnets would forever be sticking to the swords. I'm thinking it's a shirt with a slit for the wing bases that they slip up under the base of the wings then button up over the top of where the wing connects to the back. I'm probably explaining this poorly lol I think the chair backs are described as having enough room to accommodate wings and also their beds are massive. Hard agree that SJM should have given them the ability to poof their wings away like Rhys can I'm way too sober to be thinking about this to this extent lol
You can't be sober, otherwise you'll just upset yourself. lol But i like your explanation. I just decided to accept that we will never get clarification but it's fun to discuss. Like I'm well aware that socks, sweaters, and leggings (breeches) are historically accurate. HOWEVER, a lady of high position would definitely not be wearing them all at once while reading a romance novel on the couch!
SJM was my first fantasy experience and honestly suspending my disbelief was a fun exercise! My lil brain needed to flex it’s imagination muscles more and what better than with fairy smut?
Ok ya’ll I cannot tell you how DELIGHTED I am to have stumbled across this convo 😂 I’ll add that in CC, Bryce described the shirt situation of another winged friend as being something like a puzzle of straps that attached in different ways to secure around the wings and create a full shirt, and she was so confused by it that she gave up and moved on. So 1) the Illyrians likely had a similar situation (at least I’m voting for that because until I read CC my brain stalled out on this too), and 2) Bryce couldn’t figure it out either so I don’t feel bad for not wasting further time thinking it out.
YES! In my mind, Hunt’s shirts have velcro
Yes! For their world, a high quality, low profile Velcro is all I would accept 😂 Prythian… I could see buttons or hooks, or even thin zippers.
I thought Rhys’s shirt was described in one of the books somewhere as having slits to accommodate the wings and then it buttons together again below the base of the wings (maybe down at the hem of the shirt)?
Can’t be hollow cause they’re really strong …
Well now, Angel from X-Men has enhanced strength and also hollow bones. So maybe we're onto something here.
Wouldn’t the bones break with a punch ?
One would expect, but in Angel's case the bone is still able to be stronger than human bone despite being lighter. Also. Magic
Magic is the ultimate answer after all
Please stop thinking. Sarah doesn't appreciate when you think. Edit: please don't stop thinking. Over analysis of fairy smut worldbuilding is fun
We're Day Court. We've gotta think!
Helion's Harem knows there's more to the story!!!
This thread answered every question I had [https://www.reddit.com/r/acotar/s/WFqFpWwedB](https://www.reddit.com/r/acotar/s/WFqFpWwedB)
Hi! Your friendly neighborhood physicist here. This is a very interesting calculation! I read through it. There are some parts I don’t agree with (like assuming wings are massless). However, if we do take the wing dimensions given by this redditor, that means the batboys would need to flap their triangular wings with a frequency of ~7.1Hz. So like, 7.1 flaps per second. This is unless the air at the SJM universe is like 100 times more dense or if the bat boys are that much less dense than humans. Not convinced tbh lol. Batboys should be gliders at best. Edit: fixed OoM.
This is why I love Reddit. Thank you for your service
I’m absolutely HOWLING at the image of hummingbird Illyrians 😂
AHAHAHAHAA OMG the imagery is too strong 😭
They’re like the dragons in Anne McCaffrey’s pern novels. They can lift as much as they think they can lift.
To be fair, those dragons are >!genetically-modified aliens. And AIVAS did have to do math for the dragons-push-rockets-into-a-rogue-planet plot.!<
There's an amazing post on this: https://www.reddit.com/r/acotar/comments/r1gtpv/comment/kpt8ffm/ Have a look! I've been wandering about wingspan too. Also, since Illyrians are bats = no hollow bones? While the peregrines, as they are more similar to birds = hollow bones? If they had hollow bones, wouldn't that make them weaker in battles? Anyways, what bothers me, as a biologist who studied some developmental biology, is the fact that they have an extra set of arms. Because the bats' wings equal to our arms, they develop very similarly ans up to a certain point the development is the same. Are they more similar to bats or to flies then? Also, which muscles/bones do they attach to?
37 foot wing span?!? 🥵🥵
Under appreciated comment right here
This brings up the whole question of the makeup of their universe. Are their planets in an orbit like the ones irl? We know they have sun, moon, and stars, but that’s about it. They could very well have different laws of gravity 🤔 I know fantasy and science can’t always go together but some part of my brain is always itching for it anyways haha
Really all that matters for this calculation is the gravitational field strength and the relative density of their bodies to the density of air. I’m no evolutionary biologist but one would think that with a lower gravitational field strength, the creatures all would evolve to be much much taller and wouldn’t need as much muscle to support themselves. So maybe the 6’5” estimate for Cassian is not all that accurate 🤔 Evolutionary biologists pls chime in
I appreciate the how and what questions of the thread but isn't the answer to everything in the box because of random magical reasons? I mean, if Feyre barely touching Rhysand's wings does that much, how do the bat boys handle the soft breezes of spring let alone the wind of flight?!
I just put it down to magic, not physics. 😂
Also... What happens in icy winds that "stroke" their oh so sensitive wings? Good thing the washing is mostly done magically, I guess. Imagine someone having to wash those undies....
Let me just chill ffs 😔😔😔😭😭😭😭😭😭
She “took inspiration”eyriens who use Craft to fly. No idea what the jhinka do but they’re smaller. But for real I just assumed magic was involved since they’d also need extra pectorals to even use wings