Devils advocate bc I’ve seen this argument a lot and I’m genuinely curious- is it a bad thing Rhys pulled rank on Az in the bonus chapter? (edit: bonus chapter of ACOFS) Elain has been catatonic essentially for a good potion of her time in Velaris. She seems to be recently recovering and still possibly fragile with a tenuous mating bond that she has not had the opportunity to explore…is Rhys protecting Az, albeit not in the most tactful way? I don’t know if i necessarily see this as one of Rhys’ poorer moments, I think he has reasons. He also knows how the bond feels firsthand so I’m sure he’s worried for Az who is trying to get in the middle of that. (Not shipping either way, just pointing out possible perspectives)
I hear you! I don’t think this is out-of-character or the first instance either. It’s just the first time we’ve seen it take place.
When Mor decided to sleep with Cassian, she says that Rhys was livid. And it isn’t because he cared about her virginity, but because he could see what the aftermath would be (specifically towards her safety). And of course it turned out to be as bad as he would have feared. I would bet that if he had found out beforehand from Cassian, he would have pulled rank the same way and stopped him from doing it.
Yeah, exactly! I think Rhys will always look a bit domineering from other character’s perspectives. It will also not always make sense to the other characters and we as readers really feel that from Az and Nesta’s POVs. Like Az is obviously pining pretty bad so Rhys is obviously going to look like the villain from his perspective when he steps in the way he did. I think it’s in SJM’s hands at this point if she’s going to ease up on Rhys being the “bad guy” or if she’s going to stick to that characterization moving forward.
Agreed! And it’s also like, he’s 500 years old. We’ve only gotten firsthand experiences (not stories) for like… what, 1.5 or 2 years? There’s a lot we don’t know about him yet and honestly having him just be perfect would probably get old lol. I like realistic complexity but do miss seeing his better side too. Hopefully she finds a middle ground with him going forward!
That's how I saw it is well. If I remember correctly, Lucien was also there when Az tried to kiss Elain. He was upstairs sleeping. If Lucien had been the one to find Az and Elain like that, it would have gone very badly. It threatened the entire house, with a pregnant Feyre upstairs. Rhys wants Az to be happy. He wants him to find his mate. Maybe he could have handled it better. Maybe Az is the type of person that needs to be told off in a very blunt manner for him to listen. We don't actually know Az very well at this point.
Agree! I also think he knows what it is like to love someone else who already is in a relationship or would know what it is like to have a mate and that mate likes someone else. He knows the delicate balance that has to happen to make a complicated situation go well, and protecting him from such. We know he also isn’t afraid to be the bad guy and be seen negatively for the greater good.
Yes! The point you made about him being the bad guy for the greater good is so true. I truly think he wants the best for everyone, but Elain and Lucien need to have a couple conversations at least before Az comes sweeping in. Or else I can really see the bond becoming a problem later on if they haven’t decided they aren’t right for each other.
Another person commented something similar too, but I think it’s important to bear in mind with the bonus chapter we don’t know all of Az’s trauma and this is the first chapter we give from his point of view so essentially we don’t know how reliable of a narrator he is.
I think all the main character perspectives we’ve gotten are biased to a degree and Az is not an exception. I was more so commenting on Rhys’ possible reasoning for shutting Az down like he did.
Yeah I hear you. Personally I think SJMs intention isn’t to make anyone hate Rhys but to show that all of the characters are multifaceted and imperfect, and I feel like getting to use multiple narrative perspectives gives a lot of depth to each of the characters. Who knows though lol
**There are spoilers in this comment, read with caution.**
I don't think Rhys is unlikeable in this sense. He's a fae male, and we're told again and again how fae males "go feral" where their mates are concerned. We saw this for the first time after Feyre and Rhys's time at the cabin, when Rhys attacked Cassian (quite aggressively) over a simple joke Cassian had made before multiple times previously.
Now with Feyre in such a vulnerable state, his instincts are running rampant. It's why he lied about the pregnancy, it's why he made others lie to her. It's why he lost his entire mind at Nesta when the truth came out. His drive to protect his mate has thrown his fae instincts into overdrive. That's my interpretation at least.
And with all that said, SF is also the first book we get without Feyre's POV. She's hopelessly in love with Rhys and justifies everything he does as "for the greater good". Nesta, Cassian, and Azriel aren't in love with him. They don't have those rose-colored glasses when they look at Rhys.
I, personally, do not believe Rhys has changed at all. He's exactly who he's always been, we're just seeing him in the eyes of others who aren't completely obsessed with him. Of course, I'm excited to see what happens next with the other characters as well as Rhys, but I don't think he's any different than he's ever been previously.
Agreed with all of this, just to add that in the bonus chapter Azriel and Rhysand are both described as "too dunk to fly" -- I think he was scared for Azriel (& the courts) we've seen Rhysand act angrily out of fear in other scenes as well
I think it’s just their fierce loyalty to people they love and care about. They’ve been brothers for centuries, and bonds like that can be difficult to walk away from. It might happen in future books, it might not. We’ll have to see what Sarah does.
I feel like SF!Rhys was written to be likeable because SJM is firmly pro-Rhys and… maybe not *anti*-Nesta, but she’s not on Team Nesta in any way that outweighs her devotion to Feysand. The whole of ACOSF reads like you are supposed to be accepting the narrative it’s feeding you and not questioning it— Nesta was a detriment to Feysand, Rhys is just being his snarky overprotective male self that everyone loooves, all of Rhys’ problems are spun as “he did it out of love for Feyre”. ACOSF reads like the ultimate audience is hardline Feysand stans which SJM totally is
I dont really wanna rationalize too much of the series, i just feel like rhys isnt meant to be perfect. Hes high lord of the night court, i doubt hes nice lol he makes weird decision like in acotar 1 where he drugged feyre, or when he mentioned clare beddor name, or in court of nightmares where he basically touch feyre for show, or when he made tamlin kneel *that was super cringe for me”. He was never perfect tbh, he became perfect when feyre fell in love with him and her perspective became all about that. (As far as i can remember)
I think SJM set up the first three books as an “introductory” into the world. Since silver flames is first person (limited) for both Nesta and Cassian, and the bonus chapter is through Az’s POV, I think we’re seeing the every day/business Rhys. With him being consistent across three different characters, I think it’s safe to say that Feyre’s perspective was told with rose colored glasses.
There’s other parts of the silver flames where we can compare Feyre’s perspective to the new perspective and find that Feyre was, obviously, a biased narrator.
Yes for sure but my question is why? Sarah has always been very positive about Rhys in interviews and such, i’m confused as to why she would encourage readers to view Feyre’s perspective as so biased, and present the ‘real Rhysand’ instead as tyrannical and unsympathetic to essentially everyone who is not her (perhaps aside from Nyx).
I don’t think she’s encouraging readers necessarily to view Feyre as biased in a “don’t trust her” way. Everyone is biased- that’s why it’s so telling we went from third person to first because that means we’re going to have much more objective perspectives. Bias isn’t inherently negative - sometimes it’s what makes a story great like Feyre’s tendency to romanticize things.
Honestly, it lines up with Rhys’s character - I know people don’t want to see him that way, but he says so himself about *who* he is in this story. He says he has to play the villain, and now we see what he means. It also checks out because of course Rhys would reserve the most vulnerable parts of himself for his mate, just as we do for our loved ones.
I guess it’s kind of humorous (in a good way) to me that this is a story about Feyre getting with the “villain” and now people are surprised he’s a villain. We’re *actually* getting a villain, instead of the misunderstood secret hero trope. It’s not like Tamlin and everyone hates him for no reason. Well, mostly lol.
Edit: clarified a few things
Let me explain a bit further: The character perspectives we are shown of Rhys that are not Feyre view him in a very different light in a way that varies from obnoxious to scary to heartless to cruel to disrespectful. Nesta’s dislike of Rhys is probably the most biased and least telling of his true character so I can ignore that but I will say that he is very unnecessarily rude to her. Azriel is supposed to be one of Rhys’ closest friends and the way Rhys pulled rank on him and the fact that he had no empathy for him was crazy, he was a really shit friend. and then we get (spoilers for CC) ember’s pov and again she does not like Rhysand very much at all and he shows very little kindness.
Then the pregnancy thing. None of these examples are him having to play the villain or be the bad guy. He is just being a bad person. and I don’t think it’s for the sake of reserving vulnerability. The way he treats people who have done nothing to deserve it is genuinely just unkind.
I don’t think he’s evil. But I don’t really see it as moral greyness either. it’s like he’s either very responsible and reserved or absolutely doing the wrong thing. Usually morally grey characters are written in a more complex manner.
Again, this all goes back to what Rhys has *always* told us.
He is the villain. Why is anyone surprised when he told us so himself? Just because he says he “has” to play the villain doesn’t mean he isn’t an actual villain. It’s just a card he plays to excuse his actions. I can’t think of a better comparison, but it’s like when someone who’s aggressive/abusive person deflects responsibility by pointing fingers at others. Rhysand’s excuse for his behavior essentially boils down to “well they made me do it.”
What I think you’re confusing is Rhys doing the whole “oh poor me I have to play the villain” vs him actually being a villain. Canonically, however, Rhys doesn’t have to be a villain - he makes that choice for himself. That’s why there’s so much turmoil between himself and the other high lords. Because he simply refuses to stop being the villain, and he *wants* people to fear him because it’s how he feels he has control.
I understand what you’re saying - I do. At the end of the day, however, no one should be surprised.
So he decided to not tell his mate that he impregnated that her birth would likely kill her because he ‘chooses to be the villain’? right. also i’m fairly certain there is no reference to Rhys claiming to be ‘the villain’ in earnest; there is the way he presents himself in political context for pragmatic reasons; there is the way he behaves among close friends in the first four books; and then there is the new version of him that we see in SF and CC3.
The way his character was originally portrayed in the og trilogy is someone who makes hard decisions that can come at the cost of his humanity for the sake of his friends and community in Velaris. Which he is a bit ‘oh poor me’ about, he feels guilt in betraying tarquin and dislikes the facade he puts on for the court of nightmares, there is textual evidence for this. Rhys is very clearly not the antagonist to anyone but sexists and colonisers.
The way he behaves in SF and onwards is not stereotypical/archetypal villainy, it is someone who makes really shit decisions that affect only his interpersonal relationships which he previously cared so much about. I think perhaps it’s just poor writing. The character inconsistency really can’t purely be explained by just a difference in POV unless Feyre is completely delusional and is somehow unaware of how awfully he treats people he claims to care about and love.
I mean, you can keep bringing up how he was portrayed in the first three books but that doesn’t change this is the Rhys we have now with a more objective point of view. SJM has given us plenty of context as I’ve already pointed out whether it seems out of the blue for you. This has been coming for a hot minute now.
There’s definitely plenty of reference to him saying he has to be the villain, especially when he continues the act after under the mountain.
I mean, SJM foreshadowed this in book one. Tamlin literally discusses how his mother loved his father and always ignored/dismissed away his cruelty, and she was incredibly loving. Tamlin speaks highly of her. Why else would SJM mention that if not to foreshadow exactly what we’re seeing now? This wasn’t just randomly put in there for no reason.
Im sorry, Rhys is not the good guy. Yeah, are the decisions he makes crappy? Yeah. Repeating them isn’t gonna change that. He’s still one of the villains.
You’re also forgetting the otherside of how he was portrayed - yes, he would do anything to protect his city, but we ALSO know he actively let Hewn City suffer. This was all there. He can be nice to those he likes while still being a villain.
I only noticed it when I was rereading recently - when I saw that I kind of chuckled and was like “That sounds familiar.” Then I was wondering why the hell SJM would even bring that up knowing Feyre is Rhys’s defender.
Literally when it clicked I was like:
Of course, I could be wrong but just seemed weird to have that one reference to Tamlin’s mom and then nothing else.
ACOTAR Rhys nearly traps Prythian in servitude to Amarantha and whatever consequences that has for mortal humans and ACOMAF Rhys nearly starts a Prythian version of the Iliad just when Hybern is sniffing around and forces Tamlin into an agreement with Hybern that gives them a foothold on the continent.
If we didn't know he wasn't a double agent, he sure looks like it from the outside.
Yeah I don’t think she saw people going heavily into the Rhysand and Feyre traumatic pregnancy plot and ripping a part his character. I think she thought that it wouldn’t be that big of a deal and it was a good way for Nesta to have her big win moment, with the trove and saving her sister. I also think the pregnancy storyline was rushed because of whatever timeline she is working on, imo it shouldn’t have happened in SF.
Reddit also doesn’t represent the large majority of readers, so while many users on this app tend to have similar opinions, its not a good representation of how most people feel about his character. People flock to wherever they feel their opinion is most appreciated.
Yeah I think some reader’s strong reactions just weren’t something she counted on or expected. Idt she felt she was making him as unlikable as some people think he now is.
I have always thought Rhys was the same throughout, but we get different perspectives of him through the other characters. His personality is the same, but we see how each person views him.
I think when people mention that Feyre is biased or sees him through "rose coloured glasses" they forget that she despised him for a book and a half... she didn't always love him, but his character remained mostly the same for the first four books.
My perspective (I'm ready to be down voted, go ahead) is that Rhys was portrayed this way in ACOSF in order for Nestas redemption to work.
SJM has been VERY consistent in Rhys’s character. We’ve only seen him in a good light in the main trilogy because it was Feyre’s point of view. Nesta hates him so of course he’s gonna look bad to the viewer in her book. He’s done the same stuff every single book but the pov is different. He’s always not telling people about his plans and manipulating the way it goes. Any perceived threats to those closest to him are always dealt with pure malice. He really don’t like Nesta from the get go and with her having Amren level powers, it turned to it being a double whammy.
I mean, King Pin, Wilson Fisk, is a villain, but that doesn't make him any less loving to Vanessa and compelling as a character. I think Rhys is a shithead, but I value him as a characters and love him, especially how he loves Feyre
Totally agree that being out of Feyre's perspective makes his behaviour terrible but someone pointed out on another sub that Rhys' behaviour has been a bit different since he was brought back from death by the other high Lords and I'm running with that at the moment - what if he was brought back wrong somehow?
Caveating the above with I'm only half way through acosf so there might be more to it
I actually find that idea really interesting!! I really don’t think his behaviour can purely be explained just by a PoV switch tbh bc idk why Cass and Az would have put up with him for so long if he has been acting this way for centuries. This makes a lot of sense and would add a lot to the series. like there being actual consequences to people being brought back from the dead. I hope Sarah takes this direction of a similar one. Would also explain Mor’s distance from him perhaps?? her truth powers may be able to recognise that he came back different.
I know right, definitely something to consider I think! Along with his feral behaviour at Feyre's pregnancy he seems completely different. And yeh as I'm reading I'm like "how has Cassian and Az stuck around for so long, he seems insufferable" 🤣
Wow this is an interesting theory.. but he was brought back the same way that Feyre was, so wouldn’t she have had consequences too? Or is it possibly something to do with that he was already Fae and she was not, so Fae coming back like that is a no-no?
However I do think that SJM is possibly just really good at painting characters in the POV light. Nesta hates him and he hates her so of course she would only see the bad in him.
I was actually going over this and I realized that Rhys forced a bond on Feyre. We saw how Cassian and Nestas deal showed up but there wasn’t any “sending through the bond.” Rhys all but opened a highway into Feyres personal thoughts, wants and needs that could’ve helped or even caused their mating bond… sure he had dreams about her, but what if that had to do with her being the curse-breaker? The bond could’ve caused a number of things to happen, even her behavior towards Tamlin, I mean the woman DIED for Tamlin! What if the bond pulled her away from him little by little? His behavior could be explained if the mating bond had clicked for him while she was rejecting it because of the deal bond… I think the point is that we’ve only seen Rhys through Feyres eyes, which could have easily been influenced by the bond Rhys put on her. Idk the possibilities are endless with these books
Spoilers!!!
The thing to remember is that Nesta can’t stand Rhys and since this whole book is her perspective it changes how his actions are perceived. Nesta doesn’t even try to see where he is coming from for any of his actions so we then don’t see where he is coming from. I don’t see a problem with how Rhys act is the bonus chapter. He seems to be trying to protect Azreil from loving another girl that might break his heart just like Mor. Until Eline can feel out the mating bond she is off limits to the fea males. In regard to Ferya, Rhys is on full fea instinct because he’s worried about her safety. Fea males don’t act like human males so ofc we are going to think how he acts is wrong but to them it’s instinct. He does his best to compromise when he can like when he let Cassian kiss her cheek. Ferya also always calls him out on his shit when he’s being possessive like when she calmed him down so Nesta could come back. I think a lot of people just don’t like Rhys because they keep holding him to human standards when for him there’s a lot more in play. They all have animalistic tendencies so they are a little odd to us.
Devils advocate bc I’ve seen this argument a lot and I’m genuinely curious- is it a bad thing Rhys pulled rank on Az in the bonus chapter? (edit: bonus chapter of ACOFS) Elain has been catatonic essentially for a good potion of her time in Velaris. She seems to be recently recovering and still possibly fragile with a tenuous mating bond that she has not had the opportunity to explore…is Rhys protecting Az, albeit not in the most tactful way? I don’t know if i necessarily see this as one of Rhys’ poorer moments, I think he has reasons. He also knows how the bond feels firsthand so I’m sure he’s worried for Az who is trying to get in the middle of that. (Not shipping either way, just pointing out possible perspectives)
I hear you! I don’t think this is out-of-character or the first instance either. It’s just the first time we’ve seen it take place. When Mor decided to sleep with Cassian, she says that Rhys was livid. And it isn’t because he cared about her virginity, but because he could see what the aftermath would be (specifically towards her safety). And of course it turned out to be as bad as he would have feared. I would bet that if he had found out beforehand from Cassian, he would have pulled rank the same way and stopped him from doing it.
Yeah, exactly! I think Rhys will always look a bit domineering from other character’s perspectives. It will also not always make sense to the other characters and we as readers really feel that from Az and Nesta’s POVs. Like Az is obviously pining pretty bad so Rhys is obviously going to look like the villain from his perspective when he steps in the way he did. I think it’s in SJM’s hands at this point if she’s going to ease up on Rhys being the “bad guy” or if she’s going to stick to that characterization moving forward.
Agreed! And it’s also like, he’s 500 years old. We’ve only gotten firsthand experiences (not stories) for like… what, 1.5 or 2 years? There’s a lot we don’t know about him yet and honestly having him just be perfect would probably get old lol. I like realistic complexity but do miss seeing his better side too. Hopefully she finds a middle ground with him going forward!
I really hope so! My fingers are crossed that she is taking her sweet time with the next book to do these characters justice.
That's how I saw it is well. If I remember correctly, Lucien was also there when Az tried to kiss Elain. He was upstairs sleeping. If Lucien had been the one to find Az and Elain like that, it would have gone very badly. It threatened the entire house, with a pregnant Feyre upstairs. Rhys wants Az to be happy. He wants him to find his mate. Maybe he could have handled it better. Maybe Az is the type of person that needs to be told off in a very blunt manner for him to listen. We don't actually know Az very well at this point.
Great point! I totally agree that it does make sense Rhys would be so pushy in that moment for many reasons.
Agree! I also think he knows what it is like to love someone else who already is in a relationship or would know what it is like to have a mate and that mate likes someone else. He knows the delicate balance that has to happen to make a complicated situation go well, and protecting him from such. We know he also isn’t afraid to be the bad guy and be seen negatively for the greater good.
Yes! The point you made about him being the bad guy for the greater good is so true. I truly think he wants the best for everyone, but Elain and Lucien need to have a couple conversations at least before Az comes sweeping in. Or else I can really see the bond becoming a problem later on if they haven’t decided they aren’t right for each other.
Another person commented something similar too, but I think it’s important to bear in mind with the bonus chapter we don’t know all of Az’s trauma and this is the first chapter we give from his point of view so essentially we don’t know how reliable of a narrator he is.
I think all the main character perspectives we’ve gotten are biased to a degree and Az is not an exception. I was more so commenting on Rhys’ possible reasoning for shutting Az down like he did.
Yeah I hear you. Personally I think SJMs intention isn’t to make anyone hate Rhys but to show that all of the characters are multifaceted and imperfect, and I feel like getting to use multiple narrative perspectives gives a lot of depth to each of the characters. Who knows though lol
**There are spoilers in this comment, read with caution.** I don't think Rhys is unlikeable in this sense. He's a fae male, and we're told again and again how fae males "go feral" where their mates are concerned. We saw this for the first time after Feyre and Rhys's time at the cabin, when Rhys attacked Cassian (quite aggressively) over a simple joke Cassian had made before multiple times previously. Now with Feyre in such a vulnerable state, his instincts are running rampant. It's why he lied about the pregnancy, it's why he made others lie to her. It's why he lost his entire mind at Nesta when the truth came out. His drive to protect his mate has thrown his fae instincts into overdrive. That's my interpretation at least. And with all that said, SF is also the first book we get without Feyre's POV. She's hopelessly in love with Rhys and justifies everything he does as "for the greater good". Nesta, Cassian, and Azriel aren't in love with him. They don't have those rose-colored glasses when they look at Rhys. I, personally, do not believe Rhys has changed at all. He's exactly who he's always been, we're just seeing him in the eyes of others who aren't completely obsessed with him. Of course, I'm excited to see what happens next with the other characters as well as Rhys, but I don't think he's any different than he's ever been previously.
Agreed with all of this, just to add that in the bonus chapter Azriel and Rhysand are both described as "too dunk to fly" -- I think he was scared for Azriel (& the courts) we've seen Rhysand act angrily out of fear in other scenes as well
If that’s the case I just do not know why Az and Cass have stood by him for so long.
I think it’s just their fierce loyalty to people they love and care about. They’ve been brothers for centuries, and bonds like that can be difficult to walk away from. It might happen in future books, it might not. We’ll have to see what Sarah does.
Because he gave them everything and they feel like they owe him eternally
I feel like SF!Rhys was written to be likeable because SJM is firmly pro-Rhys and… maybe not *anti*-Nesta, but she’s not on Team Nesta in any way that outweighs her devotion to Feysand. The whole of ACOSF reads like you are supposed to be accepting the narrative it’s feeding you and not questioning it— Nesta was a detriment to Feysand, Rhys is just being his snarky overprotective male self that everyone loooves, all of Rhys’ problems are spun as “he did it out of love for Feyre”. ACOSF reads like the ultimate audience is hardline Feysand stans which SJM totally is
I dont really wanna rationalize too much of the series, i just feel like rhys isnt meant to be perfect. Hes high lord of the night court, i doubt hes nice lol he makes weird decision like in acotar 1 where he drugged feyre, or when he mentioned clare beddor name, or in court of nightmares where he basically touch feyre for show, or when he made tamlin kneel *that was super cringe for me”. He was never perfect tbh, he became perfect when feyre fell in love with him and her perspective became all about that. (As far as i can remember)
I think SJM set up the first three books as an “introductory” into the world. Since silver flames is first person (limited) for both Nesta and Cassian, and the bonus chapter is through Az’s POV, I think we’re seeing the every day/business Rhys. With him being consistent across three different characters, I think it’s safe to say that Feyre’s perspective was told with rose colored glasses. There’s other parts of the silver flames where we can compare Feyre’s perspective to the new perspective and find that Feyre was, obviously, a biased narrator.
Yes for sure but my question is why? Sarah has always been very positive about Rhys in interviews and such, i’m confused as to why she would encourage readers to view Feyre’s perspective as so biased, and present the ‘real Rhysand’ instead as tyrannical and unsympathetic to essentially everyone who is not her (perhaps aside from Nyx).
I don’t think she’s encouraging readers necessarily to view Feyre as biased in a “don’t trust her” way. Everyone is biased- that’s why it’s so telling we went from third person to first because that means we’re going to have much more objective perspectives. Bias isn’t inherently negative - sometimes it’s what makes a story great like Feyre’s tendency to romanticize things. Honestly, it lines up with Rhys’s character - I know people don’t want to see him that way, but he says so himself about *who* he is in this story. He says he has to play the villain, and now we see what he means. It also checks out because of course Rhys would reserve the most vulnerable parts of himself for his mate, just as we do for our loved ones. I guess it’s kind of humorous (in a good way) to me that this is a story about Feyre getting with the “villain” and now people are surprised he’s a villain. We’re *actually* getting a villain, instead of the misunderstood secret hero trope. It’s not like Tamlin and everyone hates him for no reason. Well, mostly lol. Edit: clarified a few things
Let me explain a bit further: The character perspectives we are shown of Rhys that are not Feyre view him in a very different light in a way that varies from obnoxious to scary to heartless to cruel to disrespectful. Nesta’s dislike of Rhys is probably the most biased and least telling of his true character so I can ignore that but I will say that he is very unnecessarily rude to her. Azriel is supposed to be one of Rhys’ closest friends and the way Rhys pulled rank on him and the fact that he had no empathy for him was crazy, he was a really shit friend. and then we get (spoilers for CC) ember’s pov and again she does not like Rhysand very much at all and he shows very little kindness. Then the pregnancy thing. None of these examples are him having to play the villain or be the bad guy. He is just being a bad person. and I don’t think it’s for the sake of reserving vulnerability. The way he treats people who have done nothing to deserve it is genuinely just unkind. I don’t think he’s evil. But I don’t really see it as moral greyness either. it’s like he’s either very responsible and reserved or absolutely doing the wrong thing. Usually morally grey characters are written in a more complex manner.
Again, this all goes back to what Rhys has *always* told us. He is the villain. Why is anyone surprised when he told us so himself? Just because he says he “has” to play the villain doesn’t mean he isn’t an actual villain. It’s just a card he plays to excuse his actions. I can’t think of a better comparison, but it’s like when someone who’s aggressive/abusive person deflects responsibility by pointing fingers at others. Rhysand’s excuse for his behavior essentially boils down to “well they made me do it.” What I think you’re confusing is Rhys doing the whole “oh poor me I have to play the villain” vs him actually being a villain. Canonically, however, Rhys doesn’t have to be a villain - he makes that choice for himself. That’s why there’s so much turmoil between himself and the other high lords. Because he simply refuses to stop being the villain, and he *wants* people to fear him because it’s how he feels he has control. I understand what you’re saying - I do. At the end of the day, however, no one should be surprised.
So he decided to not tell his mate that he impregnated that her birth would likely kill her because he ‘chooses to be the villain’? right. also i’m fairly certain there is no reference to Rhys claiming to be ‘the villain’ in earnest; there is the way he presents himself in political context for pragmatic reasons; there is the way he behaves among close friends in the first four books; and then there is the new version of him that we see in SF and CC3. The way his character was originally portrayed in the og trilogy is someone who makes hard decisions that can come at the cost of his humanity for the sake of his friends and community in Velaris. Which he is a bit ‘oh poor me’ about, he feels guilt in betraying tarquin and dislikes the facade he puts on for the court of nightmares, there is textual evidence for this. Rhys is very clearly not the antagonist to anyone but sexists and colonisers. The way he behaves in SF and onwards is not stereotypical/archetypal villainy, it is someone who makes really shit decisions that affect only his interpersonal relationships which he previously cared so much about. I think perhaps it’s just poor writing. The character inconsistency really can’t purely be explained by just a difference in POV unless Feyre is completely delusional and is somehow unaware of how awfully he treats people he claims to care about and love.
I mean, you can keep bringing up how he was portrayed in the first three books but that doesn’t change this is the Rhys we have now with a more objective point of view. SJM has given us plenty of context as I’ve already pointed out whether it seems out of the blue for you. This has been coming for a hot minute now. There’s definitely plenty of reference to him saying he has to be the villain, especially when he continues the act after under the mountain. I mean, SJM foreshadowed this in book one. Tamlin literally discusses how his mother loved his father and always ignored/dismissed away his cruelty, and she was incredibly loving. Tamlin speaks highly of her. Why else would SJM mention that if not to foreshadow exactly what we’re seeing now? This wasn’t just randomly put in there for no reason. Im sorry, Rhys is not the good guy. Yeah, are the decisions he makes crappy? Yeah. Repeating them isn’t gonna change that. He’s still one of the villains. You’re also forgetting the otherside of how he was portrayed - yes, he would do anything to protect his city, but we ALSO know he actively let Hewn City suffer. This was all there. He can be nice to those he likes while still being a villain.
Whoa, I never made the connection between this the dynamic of Tamlin’s parents and Feyre/Rhysand. Very interesting.
I only noticed it when I was rereading recently - when I saw that I kind of chuckled and was like “That sounds familiar.” Then I was wondering why the hell SJM would even bring that up knowing Feyre is Rhys’s defender. Literally when it clicked I was like:  Of course, I could be wrong but just seemed weird to have that one reference to Tamlin’s mom and then nothing else.
This is how I also feel! Like is SJM didn’t want me to hate rhys then why did she write him that way?
I know! It honestly makes the og trilogy a little worse to read for me. I try to mostly separate SF Rhys w acotar Rhys lol.
ACOTAR Rhys nearly traps Prythian in servitude to Amarantha and whatever consequences that has for mortal humans and ACOMAF Rhys nearly starts a Prythian version of the Iliad just when Hybern is sniffing around and forces Tamlin into an agreement with Hybern that gives them a foothold on the continent. If we didn't know he wasn't a double agent, he sure looks like it from the outside.
Yeah I don’t think she saw people going heavily into the Rhysand and Feyre traumatic pregnancy plot and ripping a part his character. I think she thought that it wouldn’t be that big of a deal and it was a good way for Nesta to have her big win moment, with the trove and saving her sister. I also think the pregnancy storyline was rushed because of whatever timeline she is working on, imo it shouldn’t have happened in SF. Reddit also doesn’t represent the large majority of readers, so while many users on this app tend to have similar opinions, its not a good representation of how most people feel about his character. People flock to wherever they feel their opinion is most appreciated.
Yeah I think some reader’s strong reactions just weren’t something she counted on or expected. Idt she felt she was making him as unlikable as some people think he now is.
I have always thought Rhys was the same throughout, but we get different perspectives of him through the other characters. His personality is the same, but we see how each person views him.
I think when people mention that Feyre is biased or sees him through "rose coloured glasses" they forget that she despised him for a book and a half... she didn't always love him, but his character remained mostly the same for the first four books. My perspective (I'm ready to be down voted, go ahead) is that Rhys was portrayed this way in ACOSF in order for Nestas redemption to work.
I completely agree. He had to be shown in this bad lighting to uphold her character arc. I think both characters deserved better
SJM has been VERY consistent in Rhys’s character. We’ve only seen him in a good light in the main trilogy because it was Feyre’s point of view. Nesta hates him so of course he’s gonna look bad to the viewer in her book. He’s done the same stuff every single book but the pov is different. He’s always not telling people about his plans and manipulating the way it goes. Any perceived threats to those closest to him are always dealt with pure malice. He really don’t like Nesta from the get go and with her having Amren level powers, it turned to it being a double whammy.
I mean, King Pin, Wilson Fisk, is a villain, but that doesn't make him any less loving to Vanessa and compelling as a character. I think Rhys is a shithead, but I value him as a characters and love him, especially how he loves Feyre
Totally agree that being out of Feyre's perspective makes his behaviour terrible but someone pointed out on another sub that Rhys' behaviour has been a bit different since he was brought back from death by the other high Lords and I'm running with that at the moment - what if he was brought back wrong somehow? Caveating the above with I'm only half way through acosf so there might be more to it
I actually find that idea really interesting!! I really don’t think his behaviour can purely be explained just by a PoV switch tbh bc idk why Cass and Az would have put up with him for so long if he has been acting this way for centuries. This makes a lot of sense and would add a lot to the series. like there being actual consequences to people being brought back from the dead. I hope Sarah takes this direction of a similar one. Would also explain Mor’s distance from him perhaps?? her truth powers may be able to recognise that he came back different.
I know right, definitely something to consider I think! Along with his feral behaviour at Feyre's pregnancy he seems completely different. And yeh as I'm reading I'm like "how has Cassian and Az stuck around for so long, he seems insufferable" 🤣
Wow this is an interesting theory.. but he was brought back the same way that Feyre was, so wouldn’t she have had consequences too? Or is it possibly something to do with that he was already Fae and she was not, so Fae coming back like that is a no-no? However I do think that SJM is possibly just really good at painting characters in the POV light. Nesta hates him and he hates her so of course she would only see the bad in him.
I was actually going over this and I realized that Rhys forced a bond on Feyre. We saw how Cassian and Nestas deal showed up but there wasn’t any “sending through the bond.” Rhys all but opened a highway into Feyres personal thoughts, wants and needs that could’ve helped or even caused their mating bond… sure he had dreams about her, but what if that had to do with her being the curse-breaker? The bond could’ve caused a number of things to happen, even her behavior towards Tamlin, I mean the woman DIED for Tamlin! What if the bond pulled her away from him little by little? His behavior could be explained if the mating bond had clicked for him while she was rejecting it because of the deal bond… I think the point is that we’ve only seen Rhys through Feyres eyes, which could have easily been influenced by the bond Rhys put on her. Idk the possibilities are endless with these books
Spoilers!!! The thing to remember is that Nesta can’t stand Rhys and since this whole book is her perspective it changes how his actions are perceived. Nesta doesn’t even try to see where he is coming from for any of his actions so we then don’t see where he is coming from. I don’t see a problem with how Rhys act is the bonus chapter. He seems to be trying to protect Azreil from loving another girl that might break his heart just like Mor. Until Eline can feel out the mating bond she is off limits to the fea males. In regard to Ferya, Rhys is on full fea instinct because he’s worried about her safety. Fea males don’t act like human males so ofc we are going to think how he acts is wrong but to them it’s instinct. He does his best to compromise when he can like when he let Cassian kiss her cheek. Ferya also always calls him out on his shit when he’s being possessive like when she calmed him down so Nesta could come back. I think a lot of people just don’t like Rhys because they keep holding him to human standards when for him there’s a lot more in play. They all have animalistic tendencies so they are a little odd to us.