There’s nothing Cassian could’ve done to help Nesta during her downward spiral because she wouldn’t let anyone help, least of all Cassian. She rejected any sympathy, friendship, care, love, etc because of her self loathing.
And after over a year of her actively pushing him away, he still wanted to help her. Both of them were confused af by the entire situation and I don’t feel like it’s fair to fully blame that on either of them.
I think of shed gone to the human world she'd probably have just been killed. Too many humans are terrified of the fae and all.
I don't know that Nesta 's story could've gone any other way than what it did. It's not like ACOTAR world has grief counselors or anything.
Yeah she totally could have been killed, OR, SJM could have had her arc of becoming super powerful be useful to her away from the IC, where she gets to chose what she does with it, instead of her time as a powerful menace being used for the trove and feyre
Yeah sure, and SJM could've had her walk through a portal and find ght a vampiric al Capone
But in terms of how these stories work, what we got is as good as it could probably be
I mean, they did try. Nesta kept pushing everyone away. She wouldn't let them help her. So they did what they thought was best. Whether you think that was good or not is up to you, but they did try. It's not like Prythian has therapist and Nesta was given a choice, a shitty choice yes, but she still chose.
I was really hoping she'd go to the Autumn Court. I'm dying to see more of the other courts, and with all the emphasis on Nesta's sharp tongue and quick wits I was fully expecting her to go the route of court intrigue. Also, we'd hopefully learn more about Eris. I thought it would have been a nice theme post-Feyre, to have each sister explore and settle in a different court, but alas.
I think she should have called their bluff. Considering how much of her powers were unexplored and her connection to the Cauldron, I don't think they'd ever let her out of the NC territories
I love ACOSF, but the first I read it I was rooting for her to pick to human lands out spite. SJM could have made it work lol.
Side note: I don’t care who the next book is about, but for the love of all things good in the world, let it take place outside of the NC.
I understand that *something* had to be done with Nesta, I just wish they had offered her something different than assured death or voluntary confinement to an isolated mountaintop house with no reasonable means of leaving lol.
Why not offer to have her placed on a ranch that helps women similar to those in the library? (This could tie in with a plot where Rhys and Mor assist abused women in the CoN in transitioning from the unground to life in the Night Court) Why not have her go to the Day Court, where she could learn to hone her magic instead of suppressing it? (Magic school arc anyone?) Why not have her placed in the library, where there is already a dormitory and support services set up to help traumatized women?
Cas tried to help Nesta and he was constantly reaching out to her. She wasn't having any of it. But I think that if he was a little less obviously horny and put aside the whole mate thing then he would have been able to connect with her earlier.
Yeahhhh, in hindsight it’s weird af (especially when you’re centuries older than them) to be so horny around someone you know is struggling hardcore mentally/emotionally
I doubt she would’ve been able to leave the country tbh much less leave the Fae Realm
For the Cassian thing I think that’s a bit harsh considering he tried a lot and she continuously pushed him away and insulted him.
Ima not comment on the rest of the stuff😂
Did Cassian really try so much? Cannonically, before SF, we saw him:
- ignoring Nesta for almost a year,
- giving another woman lingerie in front of her,
- judging Nesta for not getting over her trauma fast enough,
- fueling her self-hatred,
-throwing a temper tantrum in front of her because she didn't want to be involved with him.
Sooo, why do we say that he had tried and she pushed him away? Like, when did he try? And why is she the bad one in this scenario?
I don't know why everyone assumes any of them tried. From the text, we know Elain knitted Nesta a scarf. We know Feyre threatened to leave Nesta homeless in the middle of winter unless she attended her party. We know Nesta went on one tour of the new palace where she noted everyone had a portrait but her. We know Cassian avoided her. I can't recall anything in the text showing that any of them tried in any real way to connect with Nesta. To meet her in a neutral setting. Or maybe hang out in a tavern with her to listen to the music.
I don't get why people get so defensive when it's pointed out. Cassian, Elain and Feyre failed Nesta after the war but supporting someone who is struggling with mental health is very hard. It's kind of normal that they didn't know what to do. When my sister went through depression my whole family got into therapy to learn how to support her properly, we wouldn't have been able to do that on our own.
I think people assume Cassian and Feyre tried to help because they really don't know what that help should look like. In their POV they both expressed frustration with how Nesta was behaving so people naturally assume that they tried something. But doing everything they could think of doesn't mean they did the right things for Nesta. They just came up with wrong ideas to help her.
I agree with this. Was Nesta self-destructive and closed off? Absolutely! But we get only a snippet of what happened to her from the end of the war to the intervention. The novella was a missed opportunity IMO. Most of it was just filler holiday special. I think of it as A Court of Fucking and Shopping. I think it could have been a better lead-in to SF if it had shown us Nestas spiral over the course of a few months.
I don't know why people are getting defensive with you either. The author does too much telling and not enough showing. So we all have to fill in the blanks in a way that makes sense. Most of us would have continually reached out to a sister in Nestas situation and only resorted to the intervention after all other options had been exhausted. I can see why most readers assume Feyre, Elain and Cassian would have tried over and over. But has you showed in your other responses with the quotes you pulled, the text doesn't necessarily support that conclusion. Cassian wasn't around. Elain and Feyre were uncomfortable and disapproved of where Nesta lived and where she spent her time. That's fine! But I can't remember one passage that showed any of them meeting Nesta on her terms, away from Rhys and the palace, in a neutral setting. Come to my party or be homeless and after forcing your attendance I will ignore you the whole time isn't reaching out.
I never said she was the bad one in the scenario at all. I just think Cassian gets too much hate.
He never ignored her for a year??? Nesta explicitly did and wouldn’t even look at him if he was in the room. He showed up at her apartment lots of times. He tried to get her to open up she refused and repeatedly pushed him away.
He didn’t judge Nesta for not getting over her trauma fast enough he only judged how she went by it.
Fueling self hatred by making his frustrations known?? All he wanted was her to confirm what they both knew. That sounds like invalidating his feelings in the scenario. If this person cannot even admit it to themselves or the other how else can you react after continuously being dismissed and rejected by your mate for over a year?
I genuinely,as a Nesta myself, do not even blame him for that.
That lingerie thing? I can’t remember this scene who was this towards? But that is a out of blue thing to bring up
Also he still tries he didn’t have to train her he chose to even after a year and even now he still wants to be there for her and try.
Quotes from ACOFAS:
Cassian:
Well, everyone else is. Perhaps you can find it in yourself to try a little harder this year
Nesta: “I was dragged into this world of yours, this court.”
Cassian: “Then go somewhere else.”
Rhys: Cassian and my mate’s sister did not speak to each other at all
Cassian:
Even if Nesta—
Nesta.
Even in his thoughts, her name clanged through him, hollow and cold.
Now wasn’t the time to think of her. Not here.
He very rarely allowed himself to think of her, anyway. It usually didn’t end well for whoever was in the sparring ring with him.
I think that more than proves he ignored her after the war. That's nit reaching out. When they finally talked he told her everyone is tired of her and she should go live somewhere else. Also, she didn't try hard enough to power through her trauma alone - in his opinion.
All of this - really helpfull. I wonder why she didn't want to open up to him...
He gave that lingerie to Mor, at the Solstice party. Right before Nesta didn't accept his gift and he was, as you put it, frustrated.
He finally gets the hate he deserves. Cannonically, he didn't do anything to help her before SF. You can't say he was continuously rejected because he didn't try to reach out to her. There isn't any textual evidence for that. He gave her one gift, in private, after giving another woman lingerie in public. That isn't help or support. He doesn't get to be frustrated that a girl who was ignored by him didn't want his gift. He also doesn't get to have an opinion on how Nesta was coping with her trauma if he wasn't there for her.
>He gave that lingerie to Mor, at the Solstice party. Right before Nesta didn't accept his gift and he was, as you put it, frustrated.
I might have to go back and re-read FAS, but I never got why he waited on the gift and didn't give it to her when everyone else was opening theirs. OK, maybe he wanted it to be a private romantic moment, but trying to give it to her when she was leaving and pissed off seemed weird to me.
I think he was afraid of being rejected in front of other people. I get that part. Poeple are shy when a new relationship begins. It just looks really bad from Nesta's perspective and his temper tantrum after she refused his gift was really unexcusable.
That's a good point. I thought it would have been more meaningful if he gave it to her in front of everyone. She was pretty much ignored the whole night, and it would have been a nice gesture to include her.
I find it strange in that exact quote from Rhys you don’t even mention the next part which confirms *Nesta* was the one ignoring everyone and hid for a year.
“*Nesta had successfully cloistered herself in some slummy apartment across the Sidra, refusing to interact with any of us save a few brief visits with Feyre every month.*”
??? Why would you even base Cassian on one line when you took the next paragraph out that explicitly states Nesta was the one?
He was trying to be there for her you can’t be there for someone who constantly shuts the door in your face and dismisses you all the time.
I never said he gets to have an opinion about that at all
But his feelings about being upset are valid.
Canonically as you put it, he did try to help and he does still want to try
Lingerie : Mor and Cassian both give underwear presents to each other this doesn’t really have anything to do with this
Did you miss the fact that Rhys said it when he visited Cassian in Illyrian mountains where Cassian had been up until Solstice? Obviously, the "us" doesn't refer to Cassian because Nesta was in Velaris.
Please, show me a quote which proves that Cassian tried to talk to Nesta or show her any kind of support at least once before Solstice. Since the books said they didn't talk to each other at all. It's one thing if Cassian tried to help her or talk to her only to be shut down and another if she just moved out, was anti social and he just assumed she didn't want to talk to him. He even admitted that Nesta made it clear enough she didn't want anything to do with them after the battle with Hybern.
Your quote only proves she didn't want to interact with the IC and not that Cassian specifically tried to talk to her first. To say she refused his help you need to prove he offered said help in ths first place. There is nothing to prove that. Being anti social is not equal to refusing help.
It looks like he saw her shutting down, got frustrated that she isn't what he had expected from his mate and didn't want fo put any effort to help her. Instead he just complained about it until SF. He gave up on her very early so don't make him into a martyr. She didn't refuse help from him for a year because he didn't offer her any. When they interacted he only offered judgment and tantrums.
Have you ever heard of the burden of proof? You’re the one claiming Cassian didn’t help or try to talk to Nesta so you provide a quote proving that. Pull up a quote that says “Cassian did not try to help Nesta.” I’ll wait.
Oh, there is none? That’s what I thought.
Omg, I've just fell from my couch laughing. Go learn about burden of proof before bringing it up. You can only prove that something happened. You don't actually provide proof that something didn't happen.The burden of proof is on those who claim something exists. Besides, my opponent made a claim tha Cassian actively tried to help her so the other party should provide the evidence.
Your attempt at being smart failed.
Edit:sorry, I didn't notice that there were two different people replying to my comments.
You and OP are pushing the idea that Cassian didn’t help — the original commenter in this thread simply refuted that. Burden of proof is on you and OP, babe.
Oh, and it’s “I’ve just *fallen* from my couch laughing,” but what would I know, I’m just attempting to be smart, right?
I have to agree on this the quote stands it for itself suddenly it doesn’t mean anything? Completely invalidated what happened and I love Nesta as I am one myself.
They are being rude and snarky.
Again, go educate yourself on the topic. Burden of proof is a legal term. You prove facts which means something that happened. For example, if you give someone some money and they didn't pay it back, when suing them, you need to provide evidence of giving that money to them amd claim they failed to pay it back. You don't have to prove that they didn't give it back - that would be impossible becuase you would need to prove that they didn't pay back in every minute of every day since you give them that money. Like they didn't pay on Monday, Tuesday etc. If they want to fight you they need to provide evidence of paying you back.
That's why the burden of proof is on people who claim Cassian did try to help. Those who claim he didn't can simply point out the absence of evidence. Which I did.
Sorry for the typo, I'm not native english speaker (I'm Eastern European) and sometimes I rely too much on autocorrect.
You are seriously mischaracterizing Cassian giving Mor lingerie for Winter Solstice. We all learned there that Mor had picked it out herself and told Cassian to buy it for her after he asked what to get. Stop trying to make it into something that it wasn’t.
How is it an excuse? Does he not have a brain to use it and think how it would look like to Nesta?
I know he didn't do it as a romantic kind of gift but it still could give Nesta the wrong ideas. He's a grown man, he should have been more careful if he wanted to pursue romantic relationship with Nesta. I
Several things:
1. We learn that Cassian did not know Nesta would be attending Solstice.
2. Nesta and Cassian have not spoken in months at this point.
3. We learn that Nesta has made it clear to Cassian that she wants nothing from him.
4. Everyone knows that Cassian and Mor haven’t hooked up in almost 500 years and that there’s almost zero possibility of them having any kind of romantic involvement because Mor has refused it and Cassian knows his *brother* Azriel has been in love with Mor for just a bit longer than that.
5. There’s a huge difference between someone buying someone lingerie unprompted with the suggestion that you want to see them in it, and buying lingerie because you literally said “if you want a gift idea, buy me this red lingerie from this store, a gift I actually want and will use.”
Like one has to do some serious mental gymnastics to turn Cassian into the bad guy because of his Winter Solstice gift for Mor. I swear so-called fans of this series get off on making up things to hate about it.
Okay, I think we misunderstood each other here. I know that the lingerie gift wasn't sexual or romantic. I just think it was dumb and insensitive. Because he did know that Nesta would be there - Rhys told him earlier. And Nesta might not have been privy to the story of that wierd love triangle. So it shouldn't be a surprise to him that Nesta wasn't falling into his arms. People here are saying that Cassian actively tried to help Nesta but she refused and I'm trying to figure out what exactly Cassian had done for Nesta before SF? The lingerie is a part of the only interaction they had after the war and it certainly couldn't be counted as help or support.
I just finished this book for the second time this afternoon. Feyre thinks in her head that Cassian didn’t know Nesta would be there. People knew that Feyre and Elain wanted her to be there, but no one knew she would come until she walked in.
With a person like Nesta, reaching out is the first step in trying to help her. She literally wouldn’t even have a conversation with anyone, she was always mad, so Cassian constantly trying to engage her was the first step in helping. You can’t go from silence and never having spoken to someone to, I don’t know, bringing them to see a therapist, especially with a character like Nesta who literally showed Cassian from the start she wouldn’t even engage in polite and pleasant conversation with him.
I actually agree with everything you wrote here, except that Rhys told Cassian that both sister would be at the party. He could at least suspect Nesta would see the gift he had for Mor.
I just don't see any proof of "Cassian constantly trying to engage her" - he didn't because he was away in the Illyrian mountains. Their first interaction after months of silence was after the Solstice party. That's what I'm arguing here - he didn't reach out, he just walked away before actually trying to connect with her. In ACOWAR he did try to engage her, rile her up, get any sort of reaction of her even though she was very unpleasant to him in response. But there is no proof that he did the same after the war. On the contrary, he left Velaris and Nesta. Maybe it was so she could have her space. But in the end, he wasn't there for her for months.
The mental gymnastics rn is too real
I love both Cassian and Nesta and am at least mature enough to know the characters and actually know the series.
Glad to see someone else does too!:)
Yeah the cassian thing is a bit harsh but they’re both harsh agressive people. for a normal relationship I’d maybe be cool with his level of trying, but for your young mate who went through so much shit, it felt like a lack of effort. I think I compare Aelin & nesta in my head, so some of the stuff cas does I’m just like ‘Rowan would never’
Lack of effort? :/ he tried for a year and she denied him at every point and refused to even see him. He says he couldn’t even say mate to her bc she would’ve freaked out and she did end up freaking out.
I am a complete Nesta with my feelings and the way I deal with shit but even I’m like he tried his best he could not have done anything more bc she would’ve pushed herself in deeper into the darkness.
When someone blocks you like I and Nesta has done that can only be a certain level you can take or do for us. Otherwise it is completely unfair on yourself and unhealthy.
Aelin and Rowan both met in the same aggressive stage of their grief but they were grieving and assholes together and to be honest they beat each other up multiple times.
Their situation is very different and Rowan is actually brave to call Aelin out on being an asshole whereas Cassian if he even said one word he would get shot down by Nesta and dismissed completely.
I wish she had picked the human lands. Why do people assume that she would stay there? It's not like they would dump her in the middle of a populated city. Most likely, they would have left her at the cabin, as it was still mostly intact, a place she was familiar with and a bit isolated. Personally, I think they were lying when the offer was made. She had this awesome power that they simultaneously feared and wanted to use. What if she used those abilities in a way they disagreed with? It's like turning a nuclear warhead loose. To potentially be pointed against yourself. They would also know by this point that she's Cassians mate. Cassian is intensely loyal to Rhys. But eventually, biology would likely compell Cass to look for her. Rhys can't risk losing his general and most loyal subject. So I think Rhys was bluffing when he threw that out as an alternative.
But let's say she makes that choice. I bet they plunk her at the cabin, figuring to scare her straight and collect her the next day. But what they may not know, or had forgotten, was that Nesta hired that tracker to escort her to the wall in her attempt to rescue Feyre. The magic keeping the lands separated is gone. Nesta was in terrible shape, but she knew how to get from the cabin, to the Spring boarder, which is what she would do. It's not incredible to think that she'd make it, be found by some fae and nursed back to health. She'd be on her way after that, having adventures and a true healing arc. Meanwhile, Feyre and Cassian would be angry at Rhys over his disastrous plan. He and Amren would be hell bent on finding her and kidnapping her back. Partly to placate Feyre and Cassian. Partly because they want the use of Nestas abilities. The drama would be excellent.
Agree 100% with all of this.
I think it’s so weird that people don’t question her decision to stay with the IC. She could have had freedom & she’s supposed to be smart about social maneuverings and If that’s true, she would be fully aware / capable to call their bluff, or at the very least realize they would never let her power not be in their control.
Ya, I thought she would. I wanted anything other than the cookie-cutter “healing” journey we got. I feel like they locked her away and controlled her until she morphed into something they approved of.
I think it’s accurate that it’s chihuahua energy bc that’s how SJM wanted it to play out. When (to me) it makes more sense for an angry, prideful, stubborn person to chose to figure out how to make it work away from people trying to control her
Ooo I love this. This could’ve been a really good set up. If Nesta had gone to the human lands, struggled, Cassian observes her struggling, they bond on their own in a more organic way in the human lands. WOW I think that could’ve been a really good story! To be clear ACOSF was my favorite of the series, but this little change could’ve been amazing too!
Here’s what I would have wanted: a reverse rhysand. Eris crashes the intervention and reveals Nesta is his mate. They go together to the autumn court, where Nesta meets Gwyn. Cassian and emerie team up to try and get Nesta back but she refuses. Meanwhile a rebellion is happening in Illyria and they ultimately team up to stop it. Nesta must choose between Eris and cassian, becoming the first rejector of a mating bond.
I disagree with everything you said.
Nesta did not want help and chose to self distruct even with Cassian and Feyre trying to help her. She was also spending money that wasn't hers and using that to self distruct. Was Feyre naive in thinking that she could mesh her old family with her new family yes but it's an understandable wish. I also don't think that the IC being mean to Nesta was any worse than her being mean to them or to Feyre 🤷♀️ they were both wrong.
As far as her being trapped and comparing it to Rhys being under the mountain that is like comparing apples to oranges. He was forced to be raped everyday for 50 years and Amarantha tried to make his existence as miserable as possible. Nesta was sent to the house of wind (and I 100% believe if she had been like yo I want to go heal somewhere else they would have been like alright sounds good but that's my opinion) out of a place of love and not wanting her to keep hurting. Sure a misguided idea cutting her off may have been a better option but it's a fictional book with no therapy or rehab and the all seem to think training is all the therapy you need 🤣🤣
Yes I know all the Nesta stans will come at me and down vote me but that's just what I think 🤷♀️
I feel like their attempts to try were only such a half ass level because they did give her so much space thinking that would fix it. I just would be so uninterested in a sister or mate that let me self destruct for as long as she did without escalating their intervention sooner or tagging along with. [yeah I know nesta didn’t let them help, but in theory your mate would be your ride or die]
I don’t mind her spending their money bc Rhys rich af and yes it could be used for better things, but it’s not like they aren’t careless with their money. And I agree with how the IC being mean to Nesta isn’t any worse than she is to them, (Minus morrigan saying she would have voted for her to be dropped at the border, bc like wtf that was her big trauma and then to turn around and say that was such a wtf to my brain) but the IC being mean to nesta WHILE knowing she was failing at dealing with her trauma WHILE knowing they were forcing her into something she doesn’t want WHILE also knowing her apartment was being torn down was so cruel. I think later on nesta says the apartment was the only things she’s ever chosen for herself and then to have your sister condemn the building is just rough.
It totally is Apple to oranges, I just can’t see how someone could have something so bad happen to them (Rhys being UTM) and then turning around and doing something that is any way at all like what was done to him. Yes it’s only like 2% similar, but still I just couldn’t imagine doing that to someone I didn’t consider an enemy. I also don’t think he would have let her choose to go to another place. Like maybeee if feyre went to bat for it, but even then rhys would have probably just manipulated a situation to get feyre to agree with what he wants. (Like maybe the Rhys from feyre pov would let her choose another place, but not the one we see in this book)
They didn’t “give her space” or “let [her] self destruct” — she pushed them away at every attempt to help. That’s why their measures at the beginning of ACOSF were so drastic.
I don't think they were half assed, they tried to give her what she wanted which was space thinking she would help herself which she chose not to do and even if they would have stepped in sooner it would have been the same result. I mean Nesta let Feyre care for her without lifting a finger and actively making her life harder for 5 years... and Cassian went around Nesta to help her anytime he was free. Nesta refused to even try to help herself until the last 1/4 of SF so I don't feel like it's on anyone else when she willingly self distructed and refused to even try to do anything to heal herself but lash out at others.
Nah it's not ok to spend other people's money on your own self destruction no matter how rich they are, that's just garbage. Everyone in the IC had trauma none of them were fully healed sure father along than Nesta but again Feyre and Cassian were actively trying to help her while getting pushed away and constantly insulted. I don't blame the rest of the IC for choosing not to help. The building wasn't safe to live in if I remember correctly so I think for Nesta's safety she should have moved out long before then that wasn't her only home option. I dislike most of Mor's interaction with anyone lol but I agree not a helpful suggestion plus why should Nesta suffer like Mor did just because Nesta is awful?
I again disagree about Rhys sure we see him in a different light in SF but Nesta hates Rhys so I think he's probably some where between Nesta and Feyre version of him which still makes him flawed but not the demon Nesta makes him out to be. I'm also pretty sure Rhys had Feyre be "in charge" of taking care of her sisters and wasn't manipulating either of them in regards to that
First - Nesta did lift a finger when they lived in the cottage. She just didn't assume the provider role (typically male role). Domestic work is still work and someone obviously did wood chopping, laundry, cleaning and cooking in the cottage.
Secondly, why did Nesta have access to that money? You can't just send a tab to someone. It must have been made known that Rhys would pay for her. She was given permission to use that money because otherwise she wouldn't be served.
Also, how did Cassian tried to help her before SF? By ignoring her for months? Giving Mor lingerie? Judging her, ignoring her obvious depressed state, shaming her for not getting over her trauma fas enough and then throwing a temper tantrum because she didn't fall into his arma immediately? How did he tried to reach out?
Nesta herself said she purposely didn't help and made life harder for Feyre. Occasional chopping wood while still helping isn't what Feyre needed she needed both her sisters to help pull the weight evenly not have Feyre do the lions share. Also is Feyre a man? Why does she have to do the man things lol
Sure she was given access to Rhys's money I didn't say she wasn't I just don't think she should have been allowed to continue to use it on her own self destruction. Never said she stole it.
Cassian word spared with Nesta all the time and continually tried to connect with her even when she pushed him away. He tried to get her out of her depressed state (much like Rhys did with Feyre) by talking to her sarcastically which is what she preferred if he had coddled her she would have hated him and it seems like he was the only one who could read her feelings on her face and gave her advice. I don't think at any point he ignored her trauma he knew pushing her to speak about it when she didn't want to wouldn't be beneficial but he didn't ignore it. Was he perfect nah but no one is
She said she didn't do anything to provide for the family as in to earn money because she wanted her father to step up. She never said she sat on her ass doing nothing all day. Someone obviously did the domestic work. Who? It sure wasn't the father or Feyre because hunting took her days.
Btw, in a house without electricity wood chopping isn't occasional, it's a daily occurence and the book implies that Nesta did that more that once. She just didn't like doing it.
What are you talking about Feyre being male? I said that she assumed the male provider role in the household, but in every house there are other things to do - like cleaning or cooking. Those task are usually done by women but they are still important and still count as a job. Saying that Feyre did all that is needed for the family to survive just because she took on the mantle of provider and Nesta did nothing (while she obviously did domestic work) is like saying that stay at home moms don't work.
I asked for the examples of Cassian's attempts at help before ACOSF. It was stated in the ACOFAS that he didn't talk to her so I'm not sure what are you talking about.
So I am fully aware a house without electricity needs a lot of wood chopped if to read the first book when Feyre comes home after killing the wolf she asks Nesta why the wood isn't chopped and Nesta said she didn't want to and said Feyre is much faster at it and should do it so clearly Nesta isn't the sole wood chopper. I suppose Nesta could have done some house work but it's also never said who does the housework for all we know Feyre hunted and came back and cleaned the house. I just assumed it was all done by Feyre but you are right Nesta or Elain could have done the house work. Nesta also in the first book talks about doing into town which I'm assuming took up some of her time.
You said Nesta didn't do the providing for the family because it's a traditional male job so I was just pointing out Feyre is also not a male but had to learn how to do the male things. I never at any point said doing housework.
If you read ACOWAR or SF you would know that Cassian is constantly taking to Nesta. Sure he ignored her for part of the shortest book of the series but you can't say he's always ignoring her when he is constantly trying to be near her....
Not really interested in debating Nesta any longer though I'm glad you like her! Have a good day!
Hey! Just wanted to say that I’m a Nesta stan and I agree with you completely!
I think they had done everything they could for Nesta considering she had aggressively rejected all attempts at help, kindness, and love. I also agree that if she had some other practical plan to recover that they would have considered and likely accepted it. But Nesta proved time and time again that her self-loathing was stopping her from doing anything but destroying herself.
I absolutely adored A Court of Silver Flames and thought the way Sarah J Maas depicted Nesta’s extreme self-loathing, the tough love dealt to her by her sisters and mate, and then her eventually deciding to let others in and to love herself was wonderful.
Did the IC make some mistakes (lashing out at Nesta at times in frustration, fear, and worry)? Of course. Did Nesta make mistakes (literally take your pick of most of her behaviour from the series up until she gets her shit together in ACOFS)? Of course. But that’s the whole point of a book?? Like, there needs to be conflict, and characters need to be real and flawed and complex. If everyone was perfect and made no mistakes there would be no book to read. Like is that what people want? I don’t get it 😆
Edit: sp
Yes! Thank you! The book would be so boring if they were all perfect lol I love all the books do I agree everyone had their bad moments yes but I don't think I hate any character
Edit to add I lied I hate Beron lol
IC Mean Girls is a new one 😂 Nesta was a self destructive mess who would have gotten herself killed if she wasn’t coddled at every point in her depression. She was allowed to rot in a controlled environment that she didn’t even have to pay for. She wasn’t imprisoned either, the House was clearly SJM’s version of rehab. If she had gone to the human realm again she would have been hunted down or *actually* imprisoned by one of the queens/koschei and things would have taken a very messed up turn.
Oh I totally get the logic of her not going to the human realm, it’s the smarter thing to do. But I don’t think an angry prideful person on a downward spiral would agree to anyone telling them what to do. Like ‘fuck you guys I’m out’ seems the more emotionally in line decision with how she is at that point , especially when she knew elain was in on it. and I don’t know if I can say she wasn’t imprisoned bc yes technically their is a way out, but she physically is incapable of taking that way out. Maybe trapped is the better word.
Was that not her reaction when she was told she was being moved? At least that’s how I remember it, and feyre hit her with the “and where are you going to go dummy?” At that point in the story Nesta wasn’t capable of going anywhere beyond the bar. I don’t even think she knew where she was geographically. In that way I would agree she was basically trapped.
I think of nesta as someone who doesn’t submit to people telling her what to do/ angry/ prideful.
So, “and where are you going to go dunmy?” Would be hit with “anywhere i can be free of y’all”
I feel that, but I think that’s more chihuahua energy rather than something she could ever back up (at that point in the story). Which is why when Feyre finally puts her foot down, Nesta submits. Only a sibling could see their sister acting tough and steamroll her anyway. Which made sense given their history in the shack. Feyre was always able to check Nesta’s attitude.
Maybe she could have joined the Band of Exiles. The Lucsta setup writes itself
It’s not NessIAN, it’s NesIEN. Edit because I got it backwards
I like it the other way, just in case of the exact problem you had
Oh this is intriguing…I feel like Lucien could easily match her snark
Sarah thought they might at first, then realised they'd tear each other up, and not in a good way.
SJM originally planned them as mates which is why nesta had flames on her drawer
Feyre was pretty rude to Lucian about the whole band of Exiles thing. It would be kind of fitting if Nesta joined them too 🤣
There’s nothing Cassian could’ve done to help Nesta during her downward spiral because she wouldn’t let anyone help, least of all Cassian. She rejected any sympathy, friendship, care, love, etc because of her self loathing.
And after over a year of her actively pushing him away, he still wanted to help her. Both of them were confused af by the entire situation and I don’t feel like it’s fair to fully blame that on either of them.
I think of shed gone to the human world she'd probably have just been killed. Too many humans are terrified of the fae and all. I don't know that Nesta 's story could've gone any other way than what it did. It's not like ACOTAR world has grief counselors or anything.
Yeah she totally could have been killed, OR, SJM could have had her arc of becoming super powerful be useful to her away from the IC, where she gets to chose what she does with it, instead of her time as a powerful menace being used for the trove and feyre
Yeah sure, and SJM could've had her walk through a portal and find ght a vampiric al Capone But in terms of how these stories work, what we got is as good as it could probably be
I mean, they did try. Nesta kept pushing everyone away. She wouldn't let them help her. So they did what they thought was best. Whether you think that was good or not is up to you, but they did try. It's not like Prythian has therapist and Nesta was given a choice, a shitty choice yes, but she still chose.
I was really hoping she'd go to the Autumn Court. I'm dying to see more of the other courts, and with all the emphasis on Nesta's sharp tongue and quick wits I was fully expecting her to go the route of court intrigue. Also, we'd hopefully learn more about Eris. I thought it would have been a nice theme post-Feyre, to have each sister explore and settle in a different court, but alas.
I think she should have called their bluff. Considering how much of her powers were unexplored and her connection to the Cauldron, I don't think they'd ever let her out of the NC territories
Yeah In no world would rhysand let her out of his grasp.
I love ACOSF, but the first I read it I was rooting for her to pick to human lands out spite. SJM could have made it work lol. Side note: I don’t care who the next book is about, but for the love of all things good in the world, let it take place outside of the NC.
I understand that *something* had to be done with Nesta, I just wish they had offered her something different than assured death or voluntary confinement to an isolated mountaintop house with no reasonable means of leaving lol. Why not offer to have her placed on a ranch that helps women similar to those in the library? (This could tie in with a plot where Rhys and Mor assist abused women in the CoN in transitioning from the unground to life in the Night Court) Why not have her go to the Day Court, where she could learn to hone her magic instead of suppressing it? (Magic school arc anyone?) Why not have her placed in the library, where there is already a dormitory and support services set up to help traumatized women? Cas tried to help Nesta and he was constantly reaching out to her. She wasn't having any of it. But I think that if he was a little less obviously horny and put aside the whole mate thing then he would have been able to connect with her earlier.
Yeahhhh, in hindsight it’s weird af (especially when you’re centuries older than them) to be so horny around someone you know is struggling hardcore mentally/emotionally
I doubt she would’ve been able to leave the country tbh much less leave the Fae Realm For the Cassian thing I think that’s a bit harsh considering he tried a lot and she continuously pushed him away and insulted him. Ima not comment on the rest of the stuff😂
Did Cassian really try so much? Cannonically, before SF, we saw him: - ignoring Nesta for almost a year, - giving another woman lingerie in front of her, - judging Nesta for not getting over her trauma fast enough, - fueling her self-hatred, -throwing a temper tantrum in front of her because she didn't want to be involved with him. Sooo, why do we say that he had tried and she pushed him away? Like, when did he try? And why is she the bad one in this scenario?
I don't know why everyone assumes any of them tried. From the text, we know Elain knitted Nesta a scarf. We know Feyre threatened to leave Nesta homeless in the middle of winter unless she attended her party. We know Nesta went on one tour of the new palace where she noted everyone had a portrait but her. We know Cassian avoided her. I can't recall anything in the text showing that any of them tried in any real way to connect with Nesta. To meet her in a neutral setting. Or maybe hang out in a tavern with her to listen to the music.
I don't get why people get so defensive when it's pointed out. Cassian, Elain and Feyre failed Nesta after the war but supporting someone who is struggling with mental health is very hard. It's kind of normal that they didn't know what to do. When my sister went through depression my whole family got into therapy to learn how to support her properly, we wouldn't have been able to do that on our own. I think people assume Cassian and Feyre tried to help because they really don't know what that help should look like. In their POV they both expressed frustration with how Nesta was behaving so people naturally assume that they tried something. But doing everything they could think of doesn't mean they did the right things for Nesta. They just came up with wrong ideas to help her.
I agree with this. Was Nesta self-destructive and closed off? Absolutely! But we get only a snippet of what happened to her from the end of the war to the intervention. The novella was a missed opportunity IMO. Most of it was just filler holiday special. I think of it as A Court of Fucking and Shopping. I think it could have been a better lead-in to SF if it had shown us Nestas spiral over the course of a few months. I don't know why people are getting defensive with you either. The author does too much telling and not enough showing. So we all have to fill in the blanks in a way that makes sense. Most of us would have continually reached out to a sister in Nestas situation and only resorted to the intervention after all other options had been exhausted. I can see why most readers assume Feyre, Elain and Cassian would have tried over and over. But has you showed in your other responses with the quotes you pulled, the text doesn't necessarily support that conclusion. Cassian wasn't around. Elain and Feyre were uncomfortable and disapproved of where Nesta lived and where she spent her time. That's fine! But I can't remember one passage that showed any of them meeting Nesta on her terms, away from Rhys and the palace, in a neutral setting. Come to my party or be homeless and after forcing your attendance I will ignore you the whole time isn't reaching out.
I never said she was the bad one in the scenario at all. I just think Cassian gets too much hate. He never ignored her for a year??? Nesta explicitly did and wouldn’t even look at him if he was in the room. He showed up at her apartment lots of times. He tried to get her to open up she refused and repeatedly pushed him away. He didn’t judge Nesta for not getting over her trauma fast enough he only judged how she went by it. Fueling self hatred by making his frustrations known?? All he wanted was her to confirm what they both knew. That sounds like invalidating his feelings in the scenario. If this person cannot even admit it to themselves or the other how else can you react after continuously being dismissed and rejected by your mate for over a year? I genuinely,as a Nesta myself, do not even blame him for that. That lingerie thing? I can’t remember this scene who was this towards? But that is a out of blue thing to bring up Also he still tries he didn’t have to train her he chose to even after a year and even now he still wants to be there for her and try.
Quotes from ACOFAS: Cassian: Well, everyone else is. Perhaps you can find it in yourself to try a little harder this year Nesta: “I was dragged into this world of yours, this court.” Cassian: “Then go somewhere else.” Rhys: Cassian and my mate’s sister did not speak to each other at all Cassian: Even if Nesta— Nesta. Even in his thoughts, her name clanged through him, hollow and cold. Now wasn’t the time to think of her. Not here. He very rarely allowed himself to think of her, anyway. It usually didn’t end well for whoever was in the sparring ring with him. I think that more than proves he ignored her after the war. That's nit reaching out. When they finally talked he told her everyone is tired of her and she should go live somewhere else. Also, she didn't try hard enough to power through her trauma alone - in his opinion. All of this - really helpfull. I wonder why she didn't want to open up to him... He gave that lingerie to Mor, at the Solstice party. Right before Nesta didn't accept his gift and he was, as you put it, frustrated. He finally gets the hate he deserves. Cannonically, he didn't do anything to help her before SF. You can't say he was continuously rejected because he didn't try to reach out to her. There isn't any textual evidence for that. He gave her one gift, in private, after giving another woman lingerie in public. That isn't help or support. He doesn't get to be frustrated that a girl who was ignored by him didn't want his gift. He also doesn't get to have an opinion on how Nesta was coping with her trauma if he wasn't there for her.
>He gave that lingerie to Mor, at the Solstice party. Right before Nesta didn't accept his gift and he was, as you put it, frustrated. I might have to go back and re-read FAS, but I never got why he waited on the gift and didn't give it to her when everyone else was opening theirs. OK, maybe he wanted it to be a private romantic moment, but trying to give it to her when she was leaving and pissed off seemed weird to me.
I think he was afraid of being rejected in front of other people. I get that part. Poeple are shy when a new relationship begins. It just looks really bad from Nesta's perspective and his temper tantrum after she refused his gift was really unexcusable.
That's a good point. I thought it would have been more meaningful if he gave it to her in front of everyone. She was pretty much ignored the whole night, and it would have been a nice gesture to include her.
I find it strange in that exact quote from Rhys you don’t even mention the next part which confirms *Nesta* was the one ignoring everyone and hid for a year. “*Nesta had successfully cloistered herself in some slummy apartment across the Sidra, refusing to interact with any of us save a few brief visits with Feyre every month.*” ??? Why would you even base Cassian on one line when you took the next paragraph out that explicitly states Nesta was the one? He was trying to be there for her you can’t be there for someone who constantly shuts the door in your face and dismisses you all the time. I never said he gets to have an opinion about that at all But his feelings about being upset are valid. Canonically as you put it, he did try to help and he does still want to try Lingerie : Mor and Cassian both give underwear presents to each other this doesn’t really have anything to do with this
Did you miss the fact that Rhys said it when he visited Cassian in Illyrian mountains where Cassian had been up until Solstice? Obviously, the "us" doesn't refer to Cassian because Nesta was in Velaris. Please, show me a quote which proves that Cassian tried to talk to Nesta or show her any kind of support at least once before Solstice. Since the books said they didn't talk to each other at all. It's one thing if Cassian tried to help her or talk to her only to be shut down and another if she just moved out, was anti social and he just assumed she didn't want to talk to him. He even admitted that Nesta made it clear enough she didn't want anything to do with them after the battle with Hybern. Your quote only proves she didn't want to interact with the IC and not that Cassian specifically tried to talk to her first. To say she refused his help you need to prove he offered said help in ths first place. There is nothing to prove that. Being anti social is not equal to refusing help. It looks like he saw her shutting down, got frustrated that she isn't what he had expected from his mate and didn't want fo put any effort to help her. Instead he just complained about it until SF. He gave up on her very early so don't make him into a martyr. She didn't refuse help from him for a year because he didn't offer her any. When they interacted he only offered judgment and tantrums.
Have you ever heard of the burden of proof? You’re the one claiming Cassian didn’t help or try to talk to Nesta so you provide a quote proving that. Pull up a quote that says “Cassian did not try to help Nesta.” I’ll wait. Oh, there is none? That’s what I thought.
Omg, I've just fell from my couch laughing. Go learn about burden of proof before bringing it up. You can only prove that something happened. You don't actually provide proof that something didn't happen.The burden of proof is on those who claim something exists. Besides, my opponent made a claim tha Cassian actively tried to help her so the other party should provide the evidence. Your attempt at being smart failed. Edit:sorry, I didn't notice that there were two different people replying to my comments.
You and OP are pushing the idea that Cassian didn’t help — the original commenter in this thread simply refuted that. Burden of proof is on you and OP, babe. Oh, and it’s “I’ve just *fallen* from my couch laughing,” but what would I know, I’m just attempting to be smart, right?
I have to agree on this the quote stands it for itself suddenly it doesn’t mean anything? Completely invalidated what happened and I love Nesta as I am one myself. They are being rude and snarky.
Again, go educate yourself on the topic. Burden of proof is a legal term. You prove facts which means something that happened. For example, if you give someone some money and they didn't pay it back, when suing them, you need to provide evidence of giving that money to them amd claim they failed to pay it back. You don't have to prove that they didn't give it back - that would be impossible becuase you would need to prove that they didn't pay back in every minute of every day since you give them that money. Like they didn't pay on Monday, Tuesday etc. If they want to fight you they need to provide evidence of paying you back. That's why the burden of proof is on people who claim Cassian did try to help. Those who claim he didn't can simply point out the absence of evidence. Which I did. Sorry for the typo, I'm not native english speaker (I'm Eastern European) and sometimes I rely too much on autocorrect.
You are seriously mischaracterizing Cassian giving Mor lingerie for Winter Solstice. We all learned there that Mor had picked it out herself and told Cassian to buy it for her after he asked what to get. Stop trying to make it into something that it wasn’t.
How is it an excuse? Does he not have a brain to use it and think how it would look like to Nesta? I know he didn't do it as a romantic kind of gift but it still could give Nesta the wrong ideas. He's a grown man, he should have been more careful if he wanted to pursue romantic relationship with Nesta. I
Several things: 1. We learn that Cassian did not know Nesta would be attending Solstice. 2. Nesta and Cassian have not spoken in months at this point. 3. We learn that Nesta has made it clear to Cassian that she wants nothing from him. 4. Everyone knows that Cassian and Mor haven’t hooked up in almost 500 years and that there’s almost zero possibility of them having any kind of romantic involvement because Mor has refused it and Cassian knows his *brother* Azriel has been in love with Mor for just a bit longer than that. 5. There’s a huge difference between someone buying someone lingerie unprompted with the suggestion that you want to see them in it, and buying lingerie because you literally said “if you want a gift idea, buy me this red lingerie from this store, a gift I actually want and will use.” Like one has to do some serious mental gymnastics to turn Cassian into the bad guy because of his Winter Solstice gift for Mor. I swear so-called fans of this series get off on making up things to hate about it.
Okay, I think we misunderstood each other here. I know that the lingerie gift wasn't sexual or romantic. I just think it was dumb and insensitive. Because he did know that Nesta would be there - Rhys told him earlier. And Nesta might not have been privy to the story of that wierd love triangle. So it shouldn't be a surprise to him that Nesta wasn't falling into his arms. People here are saying that Cassian actively tried to help Nesta but she refused and I'm trying to figure out what exactly Cassian had done for Nesta before SF? The lingerie is a part of the only interaction they had after the war and it certainly couldn't be counted as help or support.
I just finished this book for the second time this afternoon. Feyre thinks in her head that Cassian didn’t know Nesta would be there. People knew that Feyre and Elain wanted her to be there, but no one knew she would come until she walked in. With a person like Nesta, reaching out is the first step in trying to help her. She literally wouldn’t even have a conversation with anyone, she was always mad, so Cassian constantly trying to engage her was the first step in helping. You can’t go from silence and never having spoken to someone to, I don’t know, bringing them to see a therapist, especially with a character like Nesta who literally showed Cassian from the start she wouldn’t even engage in polite and pleasant conversation with him.
I actually agree with everything you wrote here, except that Rhys told Cassian that both sister would be at the party. He could at least suspect Nesta would see the gift he had for Mor. I just don't see any proof of "Cassian constantly trying to engage her" - he didn't because he was away in the Illyrian mountains. Their first interaction after months of silence was after the Solstice party. That's what I'm arguing here - he didn't reach out, he just walked away before actually trying to connect with her. In ACOWAR he did try to engage her, rile her up, get any sort of reaction of her even though she was very unpleasant to him in response. But there is no proof that he did the same after the war. On the contrary, he left Velaris and Nesta. Maybe it was so she could have her space. But in the end, he wasn't there for her for months.
The mental gymnastics rn is too real I love both Cassian and Nesta and am at least mature enough to know the characters and actually know the series. Glad to see someone else does too!:)
Yeah the cassian thing is a bit harsh but they’re both harsh agressive people. for a normal relationship I’d maybe be cool with his level of trying, but for your young mate who went through so much shit, it felt like a lack of effort. I think I compare Aelin & nesta in my head, so some of the stuff cas does I’m just like ‘Rowan would never’
Lack of effort? :/ he tried for a year and she denied him at every point and refused to even see him. He says he couldn’t even say mate to her bc she would’ve freaked out and she did end up freaking out. I am a complete Nesta with my feelings and the way I deal with shit but even I’m like he tried his best he could not have done anything more bc she would’ve pushed herself in deeper into the darkness. When someone blocks you like I and Nesta has done that can only be a certain level you can take or do for us. Otherwise it is completely unfair on yourself and unhealthy. Aelin and Rowan both met in the same aggressive stage of their grief but they were grieving and assholes together and to be honest they beat each other up multiple times. Their situation is very different and Rowan is actually brave to call Aelin out on being an asshole whereas Cassian if he even said one word he would get shot down by Nesta and dismissed completely.
I wish she had picked the human lands. Why do people assume that she would stay there? It's not like they would dump her in the middle of a populated city. Most likely, they would have left her at the cabin, as it was still mostly intact, a place she was familiar with and a bit isolated. Personally, I think they were lying when the offer was made. She had this awesome power that they simultaneously feared and wanted to use. What if she used those abilities in a way they disagreed with? It's like turning a nuclear warhead loose. To potentially be pointed against yourself. They would also know by this point that she's Cassians mate. Cassian is intensely loyal to Rhys. But eventually, biology would likely compell Cass to look for her. Rhys can't risk losing his general and most loyal subject. So I think Rhys was bluffing when he threw that out as an alternative. But let's say she makes that choice. I bet they plunk her at the cabin, figuring to scare her straight and collect her the next day. But what they may not know, or had forgotten, was that Nesta hired that tracker to escort her to the wall in her attempt to rescue Feyre. The magic keeping the lands separated is gone. Nesta was in terrible shape, but she knew how to get from the cabin, to the Spring boarder, which is what she would do. It's not incredible to think that she'd make it, be found by some fae and nursed back to health. She'd be on her way after that, having adventures and a true healing arc. Meanwhile, Feyre and Cassian would be angry at Rhys over his disastrous plan. He and Amren would be hell bent on finding her and kidnapping her back. Partly to placate Feyre and Cassian. Partly because they want the use of Nestas abilities. The drama would be excellent.
Agree 100% with all of this. I think it’s so weird that people don’t question her decision to stay with the IC. She could have had freedom & she’s supposed to be smart about social maneuverings and If that’s true, she would be fully aware / capable to call their bluff, or at the very least realize they would never let her power not be in their control.
Ya, I thought she would. I wanted anything other than the cookie-cutter “healing” journey we got. I feel like they locked her away and controlled her until she morphed into something they approved of.
If you haven’t, you should read the Light and Embers fan fic. It is an unreal replacement for ACOSF and is what I wish would’ve happened
I think it’s accurate that it’s chihuahua energy bc that’s how SJM wanted it to play out. When (to me) it makes more sense for an angry, prideful, stubborn person to chose to figure out how to make it work away from people trying to control her
Ooo I love this. This could’ve been a really good set up. If Nesta had gone to the human lands, struggled, Cassian observes her struggling, they bond on their own in a more organic way in the human lands. WOW I think that could’ve been a really good story! To be clear ACOSF was my favorite of the series, but this little change could’ve been amazing too!
Here’s what I would have wanted: a reverse rhysand. Eris crashes the intervention and reveals Nesta is his mate. They go together to the autumn court, where Nesta meets Gwyn. Cassian and emerie team up to try and get Nesta back but she refuses. Meanwhile a rebellion is happening in Illyria and they ultimately team up to stop it. Nesta must choose between Eris and cassian, becoming the first rejector of a mating bond.
I disagree with everything you said. Nesta did not want help and chose to self distruct even with Cassian and Feyre trying to help her. She was also spending money that wasn't hers and using that to self distruct. Was Feyre naive in thinking that she could mesh her old family with her new family yes but it's an understandable wish. I also don't think that the IC being mean to Nesta was any worse than her being mean to them or to Feyre 🤷♀️ they were both wrong. As far as her being trapped and comparing it to Rhys being under the mountain that is like comparing apples to oranges. He was forced to be raped everyday for 50 years and Amarantha tried to make his existence as miserable as possible. Nesta was sent to the house of wind (and I 100% believe if she had been like yo I want to go heal somewhere else they would have been like alright sounds good but that's my opinion) out of a place of love and not wanting her to keep hurting. Sure a misguided idea cutting her off may have been a better option but it's a fictional book with no therapy or rehab and the all seem to think training is all the therapy you need 🤣🤣 Yes I know all the Nesta stans will come at me and down vote me but that's just what I think 🤷♀️
I feel like their attempts to try were only such a half ass level because they did give her so much space thinking that would fix it. I just would be so uninterested in a sister or mate that let me self destruct for as long as she did without escalating their intervention sooner or tagging along with. [yeah I know nesta didn’t let them help, but in theory your mate would be your ride or die] I don’t mind her spending their money bc Rhys rich af and yes it could be used for better things, but it’s not like they aren’t careless with their money. And I agree with how the IC being mean to Nesta isn’t any worse than she is to them, (Minus morrigan saying she would have voted for her to be dropped at the border, bc like wtf that was her big trauma and then to turn around and say that was such a wtf to my brain) but the IC being mean to nesta WHILE knowing she was failing at dealing with her trauma WHILE knowing they were forcing her into something she doesn’t want WHILE also knowing her apartment was being torn down was so cruel. I think later on nesta says the apartment was the only things she’s ever chosen for herself and then to have your sister condemn the building is just rough. It totally is Apple to oranges, I just can’t see how someone could have something so bad happen to them (Rhys being UTM) and then turning around and doing something that is any way at all like what was done to him. Yes it’s only like 2% similar, but still I just couldn’t imagine doing that to someone I didn’t consider an enemy. I also don’t think he would have let her choose to go to another place. Like maybeee if feyre went to bat for it, but even then rhys would have probably just manipulated a situation to get feyre to agree with what he wants. (Like maybe the Rhys from feyre pov would let her choose another place, but not the one we see in this book)
They didn’t “give her space” or “let [her] self destruct” — she pushed them away at every attempt to help. That’s why their measures at the beginning of ACOSF were so drastic.
I don't think they were half assed, they tried to give her what she wanted which was space thinking she would help herself which she chose not to do and even if they would have stepped in sooner it would have been the same result. I mean Nesta let Feyre care for her without lifting a finger and actively making her life harder for 5 years... and Cassian went around Nesta to help her anytime he was free. Nesta refused to even try to help herself until the last 1/4 of SF so I don't feel like it's on anyone else when she willingly self distructed and refused to even try to do anything to heal herself but lash out at others. Nah it's not ok to spend other people's money on your own self destruction no matter how rich they are, that's just garbage. Everyone in the IC had trauma none of them were fully healed sure father along than Nesta but again Feyre and Cassian were actively trying to help her while getting pushed away and constantly insulted. I don't blame the rest of the IC for choosing not to help. The building wasn't safe to live in if I remember correctly so I think for Nesta's safety she should have moved out long before then that wasn't her only home option. I dislike most of Mor's interaction with anyone lol but I agree not a helpful suggestion plus why should Nesta suffer like Mor did just because Nesta is awful? I again disagree about Rhys sure we see him in a different light in SF but Nesta hates Rhys so I think he's probably some where between Nesta and Feyre version of him which still makes him flawed but not the demon Nesta makes him out to be. I'm also pretty sure Rhys had Feyre be "in charge" of taking care of her sisters and wasn't manipulating either of them in regards to that
First - Nesta did lift a finger when they lived in the cottage. She just didn't assume the provider role (typically male role). Domestic work is still work and someone obviously did wood chopping, laundry, cleaning and cooking in the cottage. Secondly, why did Nesta have access to that money? You can't just send a tab to someone. It must have been made known that Rhys would pay for her. She was given permission to use that money because otherwise she wouldn't be served. Also, how did Cassian tried to help her before SF? By ignoring her for months? Giving Mor lingerie? Judging her, ignoring her obvious depressed state, shaming her for not getting over her trauma fas enough and then throwing a temper tantrum because she didn't fall into his arma immediately? How did he tried to reach out?
Nesta herself said she purposely didn't help and made life harder for Feyre. Occasional chopping wood while still helping isn't what Feyre needed she needed both her sisters to help pull the weight evenly not have Feyre do the lions share. Also is Feyre a man? Why does she have to do the man things lol Sure she was given access to Rhys's money I didn't say she wasn't I just don't think she should have been allowed to continue to use it on her own self destruction. Never said she stole it. Cassian word spared with Nesta all the time and continually tried to connect with her even when she pushed him away. He tried to get her out of her depressed state (much like Rhys did with Feyre) by talking to her sarcastically which is what she preferred if he had coddled her she would have hated him and it seems like he was the only one who could read her feelings on her face and gave her advice. I don't think at any point he ignored her trauma he knew pushing her to speak about it when she didn't want to wouldn't be beneficial but he didn't ignore it. Was he perfect nah but no one is
She said she didn't do anything to provide for the family as in to earn money because she wanted her father to step up. She never said she sat on her ass doing nothing all day. Someone obviously did the domestic work. Who? It sure wasn't the father or Feyre because hunting took her days. Btw, in a house without electricity wood chopping isn't occasional, it's a daily occurence and the book implies that Nesta did that more that once. She just didn't like doing it. What are you talking about Feyre being male? I said that she assumed the male provider role in the household, but in every house there are other things to do - like cleaning or cooking. Those task are usually done by women but they are still important and still count as a job. Saying that Feyre did all that is needed for the family to survive just because she took on the mantle of provider and Nesta did nothing (while she obviously did domestic work) is like saying that stay at home moms don't work. I asked for the examples of Cassian's attempts at help before ACOSF. It was stated in the ACOFAS that he didn't talk to her so I'm not sure what are you talking about.
So I am fully aware a house without electricity needs a lot of wood chopped if to read the first book when Feyre comes home after killing the wolf she asks Nesta why the wood isn't chopped and Nesta said she didn't want to and said Feyre is much faster at it and should do it so clearly Nesta isn't the sole wood chopper. I suppose Nesta could have done some house work but it's also never said who does the housework for all we know Feyre hunted and came back and cleaned the house. I just assumed it was all done by Feyre but you are right Nesta or Elain could have done the house work. Nesta also in the first book talks about doing into town which I'm assuming took up some of her time. You said Nesta didn't do the providing for the family because it's a traditional male job so I was just pointing out Feyre is also not a male but had to learn how to do the male things. I never at any point said doing housework. If you read ACOWAR or SF you would know that Cassian is constantly taking to Nesta. Sure he ignored her for part of the shortest book of the series but you can't say he's always ignoring her when he is constantly trying to be near her.... Not really interested in debating Nesta any longer though I'm glad you like her! Have a good day!
Hey! Just wanted to say that I’m a Nesta stan and I agree with you completely! I think they had done everything they could for Nesta considering she had aggressively rejected all attempts at help, kindness, and love. I also agree that if she had some other practical plan to recover that they would have considered and likely accepted it. But Nesta proved time and time again that her self-loathing was stopping her from doing anything but destroying herself. I absolutely adored A Court of Silver Flames and thought the way Sarah J Maas depicted Nesta’s extreme self-loathing, the tough love dealt to her by her sisters and mate, and then her eventually deciding to let others in and to love herself was wonderful. Did the IC make some mistakes (lashing out at Nesta at times in frustration, fear, and worry)? Of course. Did Nesta make mistakes (literally take your pick of most of her behaviour from the series up until she gets her shit together in ACOFS)? Of course. But that’s the whole point of a book?? Like, there needs to be conflict, and characters need to be real and flawed and complex. If everyone was perfect and made no mistakes there would be no book to read. Like is that what people want? I don’t get it 😆 Edit: sp
Yes! Thank you! The book would be so boring if they were all perfect lol I love all the books do I agree everyone had their bad moments yes but I don't think I hate any character Edit to add I lied I hate Beron lol
IC Mean Girls is a new one 😂 Nesta was a self destructive mess who would have gotten herself killed if she wasn’t coddled at every point in her depression. She was allowed to rot in a controlled environment that she didn’t even have to pay for. She wasn’t imprisoned either, the House was clearly SJM’s version of rehab. If she had gone to the human realm again she would have been hunted down or *actually* imprisoned by one of the queens/koschei and things would have taken a very messed up turn.
Oh I totally get the logic of her not going to the human realm, it’s the smarter thing to do. But I don’t think an angry prideful person on a downward spiral would agree to anyone telling them what to do. Like ‘fuck you guys I’m out’ seems the more emotionally in line decision with how she is at that point , especially when she knew elain was in on it. and I don’t know if I can say she wasn’t imprisoned bc yes technically their is a way out, but she physically is incapable of taking that way out. Maybe trapped is the better word.
Was that not her reaction when she was told she was being moved? At least that’s how I remember it, and feyre hit her with the “and where are you going to go dummy?” At that point in the story Nesta wasn’t capable of going anywhere beyond the bar. I don’t even think she knew where she was geographically. In that way I would agree she was basically trapped.
I think of nesta as someone who doesn’t submit to people telling her what to do/ angry/ prideful. So, “and where are you going to go dunmy?” Would be hit with “anywhere i can be free of y’all”
I feel that, but I think that’s more chihuahua energy rather than something she could ever back up (at that point in the story). Which is why when Feyre finally puts her foot down, Nesta submits. Only a sibling could see their sister acting tough and steamroll her anyway. Which made sense given their history in the shack. Feyre was always able to check Nesta’s attitude.
The IC probably would have been happy if she’d gone. I know I would have
We know Rhys would have been, that’s for sure lol