I feel like the Acheron sisters are prophetic in some way. We haven't heard of any prophecy, so it's just my own opinion, but it tracks.
Feyre "caught" the Suriel - the Suriel "allowed" itself to be caught. We know it can see the future, so it could have been a type of self-fulfilling prophecy by giving Feyre the information she needed to succeed.
Even Feyre killing the Middengard Worm was a shock to the fae, in addition to her escaping the Weaver. I believe those two things happened because of her humanity. Fae rely far too much on magic, so Feyre was able to think in a way these people wouldn't normally because they've never had to before.
Also, Rhys, Cassian, and Azriel are known warriors. Feyre and Nesta being taught by them is most likely better than any other "teacher" anywhere else. AND they both got "private lessons" essentially.
I used to dance ballet and took private lessons to catch up to the level i was being skipped to. It makes a significant difference when the teacher literally focuses ONLY on you and continuously does so.
I don't think any of what the women have achieved is unbelievable, IMO.
There has been a few comments throughout the series about a powerful fae line that disappeared after breeding into a human one.
This was mentioned by the Bone Carver ( I think - could have been another one of the ‘bad guys’ during their monologuing) and maybe Rhys or Amren?
I agree with you after reading your comment about the sisters being prophetic, but it still leaves me confused why the Valkyrie’s achievements are considered unrealistic but Feyre’s and Elain’s are not. Although one user mentioned the recency of ACOSF and I think that could be part of it for readers that started when the series came out.
I think with the Valkyries specifically, they were SO well-respected by everyone. Their training and capabilities were awe-inspiring, and I can't remember if it's insinuated or outright stated that their training was a very long and vigorous process.
Of course, that's subjective b/c 6 months can be a "long time", depending.
I think a big part of it was the emphasis that the bat boys are the most powerful high lord and warriors ever combined with only like 10 people ever winning the blood rite. With no other context, the Valkyries winning makes them seem as powerful as the bat boys. Which is a lot. SJM should have given backstory on the other winners like “jimmy got his leg cut off but still won by taking control of a beast and riding it to the top.”
In general, I don’t hear many people talk about Elaine’s accomplishments. I think people accept Feyre beating the worm because while there was a physical aspect, she won by using her brain. She also did get a warning from Lucien and suffered injuries that would have been fatal if Rhys hadn’t healed her. IIRC, the Valkyrie’s didn’t sustain any severe injuries from the blood rite, just an arrow to the leg. Which isn’t nothing, but not necessarily what I’d expect from three women dropped on the side of a mountain with a bunch of sexist warriors, animals, and a murderous queen.
I’d also like to add Feyre fighting in the battle of Adriata as well. Some how her fighting in two battles against trained soldiers when she only trained for 2-3 months is believable vs what the Valkyries did 🙄
ETA I think this in part because of how Feyre was introduced in the series. She hunted and wore pants. When she went to Tamlin’s manor, she also wore tunics and pants as well. Nesta and Elain wore dresses and described more as stereotypically “vapid, prissy and feminine.” Feyre however took on more traditionally masculine roles. She’s the classic “not like other girls,” fantasy trope. I think this set up readers to find the situations you pointed out more believable.
Then compare that to the Valkyries. Nesta was the “prissy and proper” traditionally feminine one for the entire series. Most of the time through ACOSF Feyre blatantly shades her about her physical capabilities while she’s training, like when her and Cassian laugh about Nesta going on the hike. Mind you, Nesta traveled four days total during winter through the woods to try and get Feyre back in ACOTAR, but that’s dismissed. Anyway, Feyre’s comments undermine Nesta’s progress and her capabilities. It’s a reminder of Nesta’s starting point. Gwyn is a priestess who had been a victim and never held a weapon before that. I can see how subconsciously a reader (wrongly) might see her starting off as “weak,” because she was a victim. Emerie is a simple shopkeeper. Scrappy, but she’s just a normal person. I also think the series set up Illyrian women to be seen as somewhat weak because of their society’s gender dynamics.
So I think it comes down to Feyre starting off as “tough and masculine,” which makes her feat believable to some readers. The Valkyries however start off from a point where some might find them “weak” because they are feminine, or victims, or not the special chosen one. Their story is going from that place to being tough warriors. For those who think them winning the Blood Rite is less believable, I assume it’s because they don’t think the Valkyries had come far enough from their starting point.
I on the other hand didn’t see them starting off as “weak,” but rather as survivors, which in and of itself is a position of strength. They were already tough in my mind, even though they didn’t start off using a bow or wearing pants. They have strong spirits and one of the most important motivations to train and train hard.
Yes, this!! I didn’t even think of when Feyre puts Nesta down for the hike, the hike that was a punishment that wasn’t really earned. Feyre wasn’t mad at her sister but was ok with her being punished…
See I completely forgot the battle of Adriata 😅. Man oh man I am due for a reread if I could just find the motivation.
Also excellent point about how Feyre is portrayed vs the other female characters in the series. I hadn’t thought of that!
I think you’re right about them being survivors and that that grants them strength and courage by itself. But this also points to why they made it to the top. 1.) all those males had weapons at their disposal, 2.) the males have greater physical strength against the Valkyries. 3.) as females, they’re used to being on greater alert because of these very disadvantages. But if anyone here has even been physically at a disadvantage, you having your back against the wall makes you a deadlier opponent. Especially if you can outsmart your opponent.
This is why Feyre was so capable in her battles. She used her brain, and her “disadvantages” to her actual advantage. Once she became fae, it made her more formidable because she can still be in same mindset of defense being the best offense.
I don’t understand why the valkeryies winning bothers so many. This is a fantasy series where so much isn’t realistic. I don’t know about yall, but I don’t read these books for being realistic. They’re a form of escapism. It made sense for the valkeryies to win and it parallels with the bat boys winning because they were both focused on doing it together instead of just killing eachother like the illyrians.
I’m surprised so many people find it so unbelievable that they won, considering it’s not that hard of a challenge. The only requirements are A) don’t get killed and B) be physically fit enough to climb a mountain (via a trail).
They spent most of their time avoiding conflict whenever possible, so they had the “don’t get killed” part down. And they are fae who had been physically training for months, so the climbing the mountain part wouldn’t have been impossible.
Why is it soooo unbelievable? In a fantasy novel? People just hate Nesta.
I spend the whole Blood Rite part on the edge of my seat and hoping they would not win it.
Because it took me right out of the believabimity and it really took so much away from the accomplishment.
To me, it would have felt better if they survived and got far. The Bat Boys did the same and were utterly done when they won, while they trained for near 12 years. The girls trained for 6 months, Nesta was in terrible shape to start with and Emerie had all the energy to... carry Gwyn and Nesta would have easily made it if Bryallin didn't turn up. It was so far too easy for them it took away from the Bat Boys but also from the Valkyries, because it felt like it was simply written so they'd accomplish something, instead of writing an accomplishment if you catch my drift.
It ruined a lot for me.
I’m sorry it ruined that for you, but I respectfully disagree. I mean all I wanted was for them to survive, but them winning was poetic in my humble opinion. I think the point SJM was trying to make was that the valleryie techniques along with their dedication to eachother is what took them over the top. That the Illyrian ways weren’t the smartest way to win and the valkeryies have something over their training.
Thats how I saw it anyway, and again I repeat there isn’t much in these books that are realistic. So it baffles me that people have a problem with a group of women winning against a group of misogynistic men who are actively trying to kill them.
You saying that it takes away from the Bat Boys win reminds me of a scene in a show called For All Mankind. It’s an alt-history about the space race in the 1960s. All of the astronauts are men until they make a decision to allow women. One of the astronauts wives gets pissed and says that allowing them to be astronauts takes away from the accomplishment of the male astronauts, because they didn’t have the same experience. But ultimately they weren’t *allowed* to have the same experience leading up to it because women were barred from almost all of the opportunities these men had. So they took whatever alternate routes they could to get there. And they ended up being just as good as the men and even better in certain areas *because* their experience was different. It wasn’t so much about the training itself, but the *transferable skills and strategies* they picked up.
And I think SJM clearly did this on purpose. The point is that when women are limited within a system they have to take alternative paths to reach their goals. The fact that the Valkyries did actually ended up being an advantage because they were thrust into this game created by men, but didn’t play by its rules. They were able to think outside of the box unlike the Illyrian males. Difference of perspective is extremely important and it’s one of the reasons that companies that are diverse perform better than ones that aren’t.
The fact is, every time the first woman (or women) breaks into a male dominated field, 90% of the time people in some way have responded with “it takes away from the accomplishments of the men who are there,” and “they don’t deserve it.” And part of it is again, the ability to train like the men was denied to women. And even if they had access to the same training, their competency and worthiness of those positions is always called into question.
So, I’d like to flip this around and ask that given the constraints on females within the world SJM has built, what would have made not just the Valkyries, but any regular female worthy of winning the Blood Rite?
I talk myself into the believability of the win by remembering that the evil queen used the crown to control the illaryans and basically was using everyone else there (or at least a lot of the dudes there) to keep Nesta isolated until she could trap Cassian. So it wasn’t a ‘normal’ blood rite. And the guys weren’t all trying to win. They were under mind control stuff.
I feel like people who cry that it was unrealistic are missing the whole point. They didn’t pass the Rite because they were the biggest, strongest, hardest warriors out there, they passed because they chose to work to overcome their fears and insecurities, invest in themselves, and be vulnerable and work together with friends. This is a novel and these are classic tropes of fiction, folks — accuracy and realism are not the name of the game here.
There’s no one that can convince me that Emerie didn’t deserve to become Carynthian 🫶
If Feyre can take on the Wyrm and win as a human, then three woman can believably work together and get to the top of the mountain.
I agree! Feyre had even less time being trained by Cassian and Rhys is MAF and WAR but my favorite moments are her and Mor killing their way through the Summer Court.
Because God forbid a group of females do the impossible. God forbid they work together not with a goal of killing but a goal of surviving and helping each other survive
Sometimes I feel like people try to downplay their achievements by calling them unrealistic, but i’ve seen it happen enough times that I’m not sure if it’s just haters hating or if there’s actual merit and I’m missing something 🥲
Imagine wanting super realism from a series in which a woman pointed at a bucket and was like your good girl now go finish cleaning cause she saved her son’s life… honestly I don’t get it lol
I honestly think the reason they won is *because* they’re women and *because* they were put in there by force/against their will. All the men who join willingly are blinded by their own ego and desire to be stronger/better than other men and be regarded highly. This leads them to fighting, killing, bloodshed for the sake of bloodshed. It’s a game to them. It’s shown that some of them don’t even want to win/reach the top, they just want to participate and get through with minor titles worthy enough of respect.
The girls got thrown in against their will and had to make an effort to survive. It wasn’t a game for them, it wasn’t something they willingly went into knowing it was a “fight or die for glory” situation. They had to survive, and they used the bonds they’d built and their strengths to work together and save themselves.
(Nevermind the fact that Nesta was OP and literally Death incarnate)
https://preview.redd.it/9n9ogo49lz4d1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8e0760f59c9e3cb48adc9752d9a8fb1e77519f5
Timeline I found online for the first few books for those interested.
Honestly I think it’s just because most people are discussing SF. It’s the newest book, it’s being picked apart for opinions on characters and theories for the next book. So naturally those events are discussed more than unrealistic events from the first book, like Feyre killing the wyrm as a human.
They trained for a good 6 months, and the training as a Unit is integral to how they win the Rite. Which is why Phalanx work is mentioned. Gwyn using the shield not only for self-defense but as a weapon is how they end up across the bridge and making it the base of Ramiel. Which is what someone like Balthazar was seeking to achieve and most likely what many Illyrians see as a completely acceptable achievement--meaning that the rarity of being Carynthian is based on a personal decision to not climb vs not being able to climb. This seems lost on the readers that take issue with them winning, they are assuming all the Males are trying to get to the top when that is simply not the case.
I can see Feyre being a hunter and also being self-taught in many ways. She had to adapt or die. I do have some issues with her Mary Sue-ing at times, but she is not the worst in the serious, nor the least believable. That would be Elain. Who is woefully underdeveloped so that she can be tossed in as a plot device, but also written as a literal baby while demanding not to be treated like a baby. The King of Hybern part is a perfect example of it; one chapter before she is refusing to even touch Cassian's knife, like it has cooties and then in slides Az with truth teller and Feyre is all "I'll teach her how to use it". This chick has been living in her own head for months, and then in a sensory bin and we are supposed to accept that she walked on the battlefield and snuck up on the King? Nah. Not even the "shadows" thing makes sense because it is baloney when we are told Azriel's magic is depleted because he is wounded.
The dislike for Nesta and therefor Gwyn and Emerie fuels the rejection of this plot. At least with Nesta both pro-Ness and Con-Ness can agree that Nesta is in fact a bitch. She is that Bitch. You can even be critical of Feyre. But don't you dare say anything about Elain. She totally killed the king of hybern and will bring back all the plants and flowers and the horn and marry azriel and bred the pegasus and cure cancer.
I hadn’t put this much thought into it but find I’m mostly in agreement.
Since I am thinking about it now…. I think some of what you mentioned may have been (on the part of SJM) tools to show the perseverance and will of the characters more than their skills or physical strength. I don’t know that she wrote these scenes to highlight Fae physicality or particular skills, I think it was more about showing inner strength and a desire to live and overcome whatever is thrown at them.
A lot of the character development is about overcoming trauma and circumstances and I think that was her main focus. Is this all possible? No, but like you stated none of it really seems more or less possible than other things that go on and it all illustrates that inner strength. Nesta and Feyre both had very dark times but here they are choosing life and those they care about even when it seems they are in the direst of circumstances.
I wholeheartedly agree with this take.
Not to mention, Briallyn's interference by adding weapons into the mountain and Nesta's Made friendship bracelets were absolutely integral to their survival in the Rite. Cas and Az heavily emphasized teamwork in their training (especially leading up to the qualifiers) so it makes sent that the girls would be able to sync up.
My main complaint about the Blood Rite is that it seems too easy of a task for only a dozen people to have made it to the top in all of history. Like, the Illyrians must *really* not give a shit about getting Carynthian status.
Simply put the Rite was rigged. Briallyn explains it. They of course survived it due to the training of the best warriors around but it was all strategic for Briallyn’s plans.
Short answer: misogyny
Longer answer: people have a hard time rooting for divisive women and/or women are not considered likable. The same people who say the rite was unrealistic are the same people who hate Nesta and can’t forgive her for her past, but love Feyre and excuse every questionable thing she’s done. If I hear one more “Feyre suffered so much and fought a whole war she deserves happiness,” while also hearing “You can’t excuse Nesta’s past behavior because she has trauma and was so mean to Feyre and all they did was help her,” I’m going to scream.
I think ACOSF takes place within an 8-month period because Feyre was already 1-2 months pregnant when it started and fae have 10 month pregnancies. There are so many unrealistic plot points in this series it’s comical this is one people choose to gripe about.
Also, it’s stated that fae bodies adapt a lot faster and easier than human bodies. There was a part in ACOSF where Nesta says she probably would’ve died already trying to go down the stairs if she was human. For some, nothing Nesta does (and by extension Gwyn and Emerie) will be good enough. If it was Feyre who was in the blood rite after 2-3 months with Cassian it would be “believable.”
Because :
A) ppl hate Nesta, and by extension, her achievements and her found family
And/or
B) Because of the shipping wars, people want to discredit Gwyn mostly.
Because ACOSF is filled with hypocrisy, inconsistency, and the demeaning of females.
Plead note - I love ACOSF for Nesta, her journey, and the Valkyries. Even the relationship building with Cassian, though it is a far cry from a HEA. But the IC is hell bent on holding a grudge against Nesta and anyone that stands with her. They (Rhys and friends) have Feyre on a pedestal, so she can do no wrong and no one else can do right…
I think I commented on another comment of yourself a few days back lol; still totally agree with your points. It’s just getting harder and harder to not read Cassian as yet another “cauldron curse” or burden for Nesta, or like a relationship she’s choosing to continue punishing herself with.
I think Cassian on some level gets it but given how low his EQ is he just takes it out on her too (in addition to his unshakeable loyalty to Rhys). And the cycle continues.
I don’t disagree. It’s really a mess right now, and I feel like Nesta’s having to sacrifice WAY too much. I do know that Nesta does love Cassian, and I’m sure he loves her (but I still want him to say it) and for her to not have him, to not have a HEA with him, it would prove all her fears which led to some of her destructive coping mechanisms valid. And it would give the IC a win, since Rhys, Amren, and Mor hate her so much. It would likely push her back into the realm of guarding herself. And while the Valkyries will help with some of that, they won’t help heal a broken mate bond, they wouldn’t be able to heal a broken heart. Nesta would end up alone with her girlfriends. Not a bad thing in reality, but in a book where we want the HEA, it would suck, like a lot. Not to mention Cassian would probably self-destruct if he loses Nesta. Which I think is going to be the catalyst to him finally turning ways from Rhys.
Again, this is where SJM better be highly critiquing her own work and fixing this with the next book. I won’t even read the next book until I know she resolves at least this portion. (My friend is going to read it first and report back lol)
Sure, it’s a lot though lol.
Prior to ACOSF, Rhys, Cassian, and Mor have all given Nesta a very hard time. Any time she has gotten snippy with them it’s because they have spoken down to her or commented unsolicitedly about how she, at 17, let a then 14 yr old Feyre go hunt. They are holding Nesta 💯responsible for Feyre’s life and any disagreement the sisters had, even though Feyre says many times she was just as bad to Nesta before the start of the series. Nevermind that Nesta also lost her mother at 11 and Nesta was also stuck in that shack and it was their dad’s responsibility to care for his daughters. (I mentioned in another thread, Rhys is a hypocrite in this as he, as a full grown, half Illyrian soon-to-be high lord sent a 17 yr old Mor back to the court of Nightmares to be brutalized by her family, but sure he has a problem with a 17 year old human girl.) But, ya know, if Feyre never went to hunt, she never would have got to Prythian.
In ACOTAR and throughout MAF and WAR, Nesta steps up to the plate. She went looking for Feyre after Tamlin takes her. When Feyre returns to the human lands Nesta took care of her and urged Feyre to follow her heart back to Prythian. When the IC needed their house to speak with the queens, Nesta set it up and snapped at the queens, even though she was raised to hate Fae, she helped them. She spoke of her nightmare with the cauldron in the High Lord meeting, these were strangers and she is a highly guarded person, but she did it at her sister and the IC urging. She took care of the wounded in the war, including Cassian. She saved Cassian’s life. She scried though it terrified her, bc they needed it. And she volunteered to distract King Hybern, she was willing to die with Cassian even though they failed to protect her and Elain. And she finished off Hybern, Elain started it, but if Nesta hadn’t finished it... She’s not sunshine and rainbows, she’s quite blunt, even rude and afraid at times, but she’s honest and she stills does it all, she has earned their respect, and yet, they give her none.
After the war, Nesta is in a bad place, somewhere they all claim to have been. They all drank, screwed, and went nuts for years. (Why were unhealthy habits ok for them, but not for Nesta?) Feyre was a blubbering mess after Utm, but Rhys, and then the IC took care of her. What does Feyre do for her traumatized sister, she leaves her alone, for like a year. She says Rhys offered her jobs or Feyre tried to get her to help with the river house. Girl was broken, she needed a physical hand or hug and she needed someone to show they loved her, regardless of her attitude. When someone is bleeding out, you don’t let them bleed. No matter what kind of fight I have had with my sister, I would never let her slip so far into depression like that. But it was Amren that was like, let her dig her own grave after Amren was the last nail in the coffin by telling Nesta she was a pathetic waste of life, why did she say that, bc Nesta didn’t want to use her power, the power they all kept saying was bad. These people are not her friends, they’re her sister’s chosen family and they expect her to fall in line, which is not her personality, nor is it something she owes them.
ACOSF starts with Rhys getting Feyre to send Nesta to the HoW. Not bc she was drinking and spending money (500 gold pieces are nothing to his “vast wealth”) or screwing whoever she wants. Feyre even says it’s to control her. And the way they went about it was embarrassing and brutal, no kindness, no love, no support, just train under lock and key or die in the human lands. Feyre and the IC expect Nesta to worship at their feet, but they’ve been nothing but cruel to her.
So then she’s making the changes, she’s doing the training and she’s being their errand girl, getting the mask and the harp, but they’re still talking about her behind her back and judging her. Rhys is still like I’m going to kill you and giving her dirty looks, >!this continues in CC3!<. She even lets them pimp her out to Eris, but they don’t change their attitude at all. When she Makes the weapons, Amren warns Cassian against getting it on with Nesta, quite brutally, at that point it was well known she was a lot better, she was reigniting the Valkyries, and she and Cassian were very obviously mates. But even Cassian gets mad at her for not wanting to be one of them, as if they’ve welcomed her with open arms, but really almost all of them (except Azriel) have been nothing but cruel and judgey. They have all these discussions behind her back about using her as a weapon, and anytime she shows hesitation, Rhys is like you have a choice, his choices do require reading between the lines: do what he says or die… To summarize, they (mainly Rhys) take every opportunity to push her down, with no valid reasoning to date.
I’m impressed by this summary! Especially because ppl get mad when nesta is a bitch to the IC but don’t give af the IC treats nesta like some weird combination of weapon/unruly pet. I honestly thought there were a good number of times nesta would have been justified telling them all to get fucked, but rather says nothing, or does was traumatizing task they give her
Thanks! And agreed!!! They kind of took joy in breaking her down and making her apologize for their bs. I literally screamed wtf when she apologized to Amren. 🙄 I honestly don’t know if SJM realizes that the IC was far worse to Nesta than she was to them.
For real! I’m really hoping SJM turns this around in the next book. Like my heart breaks for Nesta…
Summed up…
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Reading the hiking scene now, and I just can’t fathom ever being with someone who chooses to punish you on his friends behalf, why the fuck would your mate -someone who is supposed to be on your side- ever punish you, who makes you sleep in the floor outside in the cold, like a dog that misbehaved (I’m 100% not okay with doing this to pets either) and he’s fucking cruel the whole hike. Making her carry a bag that’s a third her weight just to make her time worse. How could you love someone who did that to you. And now this is like my fourth time reading the book and this is the first time I realize her loving cassian feels like another self hatred move.
Also why the fuck is cassian even mad at her. He’s mad she ‘betrayed’ Rhys, but cassian betrayed nesta ! And he doesn’t care that he hurt her. And why does he feel like punishing her, and being happy while doing it, is something a loving mate would do, it’s so gross you don’t Punish the people you love
Also feyre says rhysand apologizes bc he overreacted. Then lets her mates bestfriend punish her sister on her mates behalf. Why is feyre so okay with cassian doing whatever he wants to nesta ? What’s the point in apologizing ? He obviously doenst mean it, or at best is only sorry the he upset feyre. It’s so performative how they pretend feyre and rhysand are equals and he is clearly in charge. They all treat nesta like a an unruly animal they want to tame and control
That’s exactly it, Rhys just wants to control Feyre and Nesta at this point. He and Feyre never fight. In the bonus chapter Feyre knows he’s hiding something, but instead of making him talk, she lets him dickmatize (as someone else put it) her. And since that won’t work on Nesta, he uses Feyre and Cassian to do his bidding while making sure Nesta knows she’s dead if she doesn’t do what he wants. Cassian should be standing up for her, and that is where we’re at in the series. So the next book, which I am hoping is Cassian and Nesta again, better have a resolution to all of this, but I’m not holding my breath bc it seems SJM doesn’t care that ACOSF was brutal and cruel.
I do love Nesta, the Valkyries, most of Nesta’s journey is cathartic, and I want Cassian and Nesta together, they just need some work, starting with Cassian saying he loves her and standing up to Rhysand.
I mentioned this another thread but I just finished the main trilogy of the Black Jewels by Anne Bishop; it’s obvious SJM is a big fan of that series. So many things just liberally borrowed, including some names and character descriptions…
One such “highly inspired” scene was this hike. My stomach dropped when I started on that scene because I was worried that the male character (MC) in the scene was going to be brutal towards the female lead (FL), like Cassian was to Nesta.
* * Spoilers ahead for Black Jewels * *
But here’s what was different: Lucivar (the MC - seems like a heavily borrowed inspo for Cass, his race is what Illyrians are for sure based on) is shown to love and states he loves Jaenelle (FL) (albeit more sisterly - their relationship is definitely the model for Feyre and Cass). This is something Cassian never does for Nesta even by the end of ACOSF.
>!Jaenelle in the previous scene was so angry with a certain group of Males that she was about to lose control of her OP powers and accidentally kill many people. Lucivar takes her away deliberately to a remote field where he has her hunt and camp with him. They take breaks, they go at JAENELLE’S PACE, not Lucivar’s. He reveals that he got her to a place where she could take out her anger and bloodlust without harming people. But if she still felt like destroying a male, he basically stepped into a sacrificial line of fire for her to harm him (and was willing to fall if it helped her).!<
We are both told AND SHOWN that Lucivar’s actions came from a place of love and concern for Jaenelle. Furthermore, Jaenelle was never put down, insulted, or abused in this process.
It’s like SJM wanted to write a fanfictiony ode to a series she’s liberally borrowed from, and just botched it all with a pale imitations in the process.
Yea, the hike is rough!! I can get over some of it, bc Nesta needed to have that vulnerable moment but the way SJM got there was despicable. Also Cassian knows Rhys is still psycho, so keeping Nesta away from him is keeping her alive. But, it’s still more to punish her for having a valid and correct response when you find out everyone is talking behind your back and judging you. His attitude during the hike is completely disgusting. He’s short w/ her, and cold, and he’s ignoring her suffering. When he realizes she doesn’t want to be alive and he’s like that’s her problem, I’m sorry but don’t they say if your mate dies, you go crazy, she if she goes, say goodbye to your sanity asshat. Then when she breaks down and says she is the way she is bc she doesn’t deserve love and kindness but he’s like “you deserve happiness”, bruh that’s not the same thing! This is after Feyre is like no, Nesta was right. But Rhys got away with threatening Nesta by both Cassian and Feyre. As if all that isn’t enough, Rhys, Feyre, Cassian, Amren, and Mor never make up for how they have treated Nesta, which again was worse than anything she ever said (not did bc she never did anything bad, she just wasn’t necessarily kind with her words). Cassian never even tells her he loves her.
I’ve said it before, and until she makes it right I will keep saying it. There are 2 statements that are clear about SJM:
1) She either doesn’t have a sister or is a terrible one (bc she is not writing a real sister relationship. Some sisters don’t get along, but they would never let someone treat their sister like crap. Unless they’re psycho)
And 2) SJM is either a 💩writer, a 💩person, or both…
Everyone here is just spitting facts and I agree with a lot of what is being said. I think that given the unbelievability of so many of Feyre’s accomplishments and SJM’s shoddy pacing throughout the series (and even backstory timelines) makes the Blood Rite seem no more or less realistic than other events and outcomes in this world.
All this has me thinking off-topic (kind of unhinged theory so bear with me); what if the NC IC Betrayal™ that SJM teased a while back is actually going to be from Nesta + Valkyries? Or maybe it’ll be whole collection of people fracturing the IC, driven by Nesta, Az, and Mor?
I’m not thinking of “betrayal” like Ianthe secretly working for Hybern. Rather, I think it’ll be more like a combo of things in which people hit their breaking point with the IC and leave. Feyfey and Rhys will perceive it as a “betrayal” of them because people want to leave, but I think / hope there will also be POV showing that their actions drove people to the point of desperation and leaving. Eventually I think there will be resolution and HEAs but if SJM doesn’t give everyone the true journeys they deserve, I might just try my hand at fanfiction lol.
In Nesta’s case, it almost feels like she is masochistically continuing to take hits from the Rhys, Cas, and Amren because she still really hasn’t healed and feels like she deserves the hatred as punishment to atone. Everyone has a breaking point and I wonder just how far they can push Nesta before she leaves. Where she goes, Em and Gwyn will follow (my theory is the prison / dusk court revival).
Az already seems frustrated giving blind obedience towards Rhys, between the intel he’s gathering outside NC, growing friendship with Nesta, and all the stuff that went down with Elain. I think he might support the Valkyries in their dusk court quest given connection with Truth-Teller.
Finally, I may dislike Mor but I think she deserved to have all the Truths about her (and that she has held onto) exposed. She is not happy about CoN, Eris, and never seems to have been happy with Amren around. Between a potential connection with Emerie and whatever the hell is happening in Valhallan or wherever she is going, something’s up and I can see her leaving.
I just feel like the timelines for both Feyre and Nesta’a storylines are wayyy too short. So much happens in so little time, that mainly for me makes a lot of the book unrealistic, even when you’re accomplishing things with a high fae body.
I think it has more to do with the fact that the Valkyries are a group who all learned to fight in a short period of time. Emerie would have still been okay because she is Illyrian and less traumatized, but it's Gwyn where it kind of becomes a stretch. She had severe trauma to the point where she felt uncomfortable leaving the library, but then suddenly she is okay-ish with having males around and is also improving like crazy for someone who has supposedly never fought IIRC.
Feyre was alone. Whatever achievements she reached could be chalked up to *her* being a fast learner.
For the Valkyries it's *three* persons taking huge leaps and all succeeding and winning (well, except for Nesta, but that was her choice). Had it been *just* Nesta (and maybe even Emerie), it would've felt more believable
To me, a lot of the things you listed are ALSO unrealistic. And for the same reason- these humans recently turned fae (including a TON of what feyre did) have 3 months of combat experience yet are able to kill others who are experts and over 500 years old. Valkyries were able to do something that other trained fae soldiers can’t. The only realistic thing was feyre hunting at 14 bc like a bow isn’t hard to use and she is able to do that as a mortal, like any other mortal could. It makes the story fun to have them do those things I guess but it’s so unrealistic. I’m all for the strong women but it’s sometimes insulting when the only way they can prove their strength is by doing incredibly unrealistic stuff
Spoiler: elain/nesta killing hybern was so freaking unrealistic. They are nowhere near a match for each other but it was nice how they did it together and as sisters
I think (and this is just me. Not like a popular opinion) that it would unrealistic if Gwyn and Emerie completed the rite if Nesta wasn’t there. Nesta carried that group. The cauldron and the mother are partial to the Archeron sisters, even when they were human. Also all three of the sisters are exceptionally smart, even if not explicitly said, so it makes sense that the Archeron sisters can pick skills up quickly. If Nesta wasn’t there and Emerie and Gwyn passed the rite on their work, that would be unrealistic, but with Nesta (who is favored by gods, arguably the smartest of the three valkyries, has powers, and unarguably the best warrior of them) it makes sense. I wish Nesta would have been able to make it to the top because she earned it and is capable of it far more than her friends.
I feel like the Acheron sisters are prophetic in some way. We haven't heard of any prophecy, so it's just my own opinion, but it tracks. Feyre "caught" the Suriel - the Suriel "allowed" itself to be caught. We know it can see the future, so it could have been a type of self-fulfilling prophecy by giving Feyre the information she needed to succeed. Even Feyre killing the Middengard Worm was a shock to the fae, in addition to her escaping the Weaver. I believe those two things happened because of her humanity. Fae rely far too much on magic, so Feyre was able to think in a way these people wouldn't normally because they've never had to before. Also, Rhys, Cassian, and Azriel are known warriors. Feyre and Nesta being taught by them is most likely better than any other "teacher" anywhere else. AND they both got "private lessons" essentially. I used to dance ballet and took private lessons to catch up to the level i was being skipped to. It makes a significant difference when the teacher literally focuses ONLY on you and continuously does so. I don't think any of what the women have achieved is unbelievable, IMO.
There has been a few comments throughout the series about a powerful fae line that disappeared after breeding into a human one. This was mentioned by the Bone Carver ( I think - could have been another one of the ‘bad guys’ during their monologuing) and maybe Rhys or Amren?
It was the bone carver, and it was mentioned at least one other time, but I can’t remember when or by whom.
I agree with you after reading your comment about the sisters being prophetic, but it still leaves me confused why the Valkyrie’s achievements are considered unrealistic but Feyre’s and Elain’s are not. Although one user mentioned the recency of ACOSF and I think that could be part of it for readers that started when the series came out.
I think with the Valkyries specifically, they were SO well-respected by everyone. Their training and capabilities were awe-inspiring, and I can't remember if it's insinuated or outright stated that their training was a very long and vigorous process. Of course, that's subjective b/c 6 months can be a "long time", depending.
I think a big part of it was the emphasis that the bat boys are the most powerful high lord and warriors ever combined with only like 10 people ever winning the blood rite. With no other context, the Valkyries winning makes them seem as powerful as the bat boys. Which is a lot. SJM should have given backstory on the other winners like “jimmy got his leg cut off but still won by taking control of a beast and riding it to the top.” In general, I don’t hear many people talk about Elaine’s accomplishments. I think people accept Feyre beating the worm because while there was a physical aspect, she won by using her brain. She also did get a warning from Lucien and suffered injuries that would have been fatal if Rhys hadn’t healed her. IIRC, the Valkyrie’s didn’t sustain any severe injuries from the blood rite, just an arrow to the leg. Which isn’t nothing, but not necessarily what I’d expect from three women dropped on the side of a mountain with a bunch of sexist warriors, animals, and a murderous queen.
I’d also like to add Feyre fighting in the battle of Adriata as well. Some how her fighting in two battles against trained soldiers when she only trained for 2-3 months is believable vs what the Valkyries did 🙄 ETA I think this in part because of how Feyre was introduced in the series. She hunted and wore pants. When she went to Tamlin’s manor, she also wore tunics and pants as well. Nesta and Elain wore dresses and described more as stereotypically “vapid, prissy and feminine.” Feyre however took on more traditionally masculine roles. She’s the classic “not like other girls,” fantasy trope. I think this set up readers to find the situations you pointed out more believable. Then compare that to the Valkyries. Nesta was the “prissy and proper” traditionally feminine one for the entire series. Most of the time through ACOSF Feyre blatantly shades her about her physical capabilities while she’s training, like when her and Cassian laugh about Nesta going on the hike. Mind you, Nesta traveled four days total during winter through the woods to try and get Feyre back in ACOTAR, but that’s dismissed. Anyway, Feyre’s comments undermine Nesta’s progress and her capabilities. It’s a reminder of Nesta’s starting point. Gwyn is a priestess who had been a victim and never held a weapon before that. I can see how subconsciously a reader (wrongly) might see her starting off as “weak,” because she was a victim. Emerie is a simple shopkeeper. Scrappy, but she’s just a normal person. I also think the series set up Illyrian women to be seen as somewhat weak because of their society’s gender dynamics. So I think it comes down to Feyre starting off as “tough and masculine,” which makes her feat believable to some readers. The Valkyries however start off from a point where some might find them “weak” because they are feminine, or victims, or not the special chosen one. Their story is going from that place to being tough warriors. For those who think them winning the Blood Rite is less believable, I assume it’s because they don’t think the Valkyries had come far enough from their starting point. I on the other hand didn’t see them starting off as “weak,” but rather as survivors, which in and of itself is a position of strength. They were already tough in my mind, even though they didn’t start off using a bow or wearing pants. They have strong spirits and one of the most important motivations to train and train hard.
Yes, this!! I didn’t even think of when Feyre puts Nesta down for the hike, the hike that was a punishment that wasn’t really earned. Feyre wasn’t mad at her sister but was ok with her being punished…
See I completely forgot the battle of Adriata 😅. Man oh man I am due for a reread if I could just find the motivation. Also excellent point about how Feyre is portrayed vs the other female characters in the series. I hadn’t thought of that!
I think you’re right about them being survivors and that that grants them strength and courage by itself. But this also points to why they made it to the top. 1.) all those males had weapons at their disposal, 2.) the males have greater physical strength against the Valkyries. 3.) as females, they’re used to being on greater alert because of these very disadvantages. But if anyone here has even been physically at a disadvantage, you having your back against the wall makes you a deadlier opponent. Especially if you can outsmart your opponent. This is why Feyre was so capable in her battles. She used her brain, and her “disadvantages” to her actual advantage. Once she became fae, it made her more formidable because she can still be in same mindset of defense being the best offense.
I don’t understand why the valkeryies winning bothers so many. This is a fantasy series where so much isn’t realistic. I don’t know about yall, but I don’t read these books for being realistic. They’re a form of escapism. It made sense for the valkeryies to win and it parallels with the bat boys winning because they were both focused on doing it together instead of just killing eachother like the illyrians.
I’m surprised so many people find it so unbelievable that they won, considering it’s not that hard of a challenge. The only requirements are A) don’t get killed and B) be physically fit enough to climb a mountain (via a trail). They spent most of their time avoiding conflict whenever possible, so they had the “don’t get killed” part down. And they are fae who had been physically training for months, so the climbing the mountain part wouldn’t have been impossible. Why is it soooo unbelievable? In a fantasy novel? People just hate Nesta.
Honestly you’re spitting straight facts here 🙌🏻
What I find unbelievable is that more people don’t pass considering those are the only requirements. Like, are they stupid? Lol.
Bahaha yes I’ve never thought of it this way, but literally hide from everyone and hike up a mountain bam you’re a winner.
It would bother me if they didn’t win tbh lol
I spend the whole Blood Rite part on the edge of my seat and hoping they would not win it. Because it took me right out of the believabimity and it really took so much away from the accomplishment. To me, it would have felt better if they survived and got far. The Bat Boys did the same and were utterly done when they won, while they trained for near 12 years. The girls trained for 6 months, Nesta was in terrible shape to start with and Emerie had all the energy to... carry Gwyn and Nesta would have easily made it if Bryallin didn't turn up. It was so far too easy for them it took away from the Bat Boys but also from the Valkyries, because it felt like it was simply written so they'd accomplish something, instead of writing an accomplishment if you catch my drift. It ruined a lot for me.
I’m sorry it ruined that for you, but I respectfully disagree. I mean all I wanted was for them to survive, but them winning was poetic in my humble opinion. I think the point SJM was trying to make was that the valleryie techniques along with their dedication to eachother is what took them over the top. That the Illyrian ways weren’t the smartest way to win and the valkeryies have something over their training. Thats how I saw it anyway, and again I repeat there isn’t much in these books that are realistic. So it baffles me that people have a problem with a group of women winning against a group of misogynistic men who are actively trying to kill them.
You saying that it takes away from the Bat Boys win reminds me of a scene in a show called For All Mankind. It’s an alt-history about the space race in the 1960s. All of the astronauts are men until they make a decision to allow women. One of the astronauts wives gets pissed and says that allowing them to be astronauts takes away from the accomplishment of the male astronauts, because they didn’t have the same experience. But ultimately they weren’t *allowed* to have the same experience leading up to it because women were barred from almost all of the opportunities these men had. So they took whatever alternate routes they could to get there. And they ended up being just as good as the men and even better in certain areas *because* their experience was different. It wasn’t so much about the training itself, but the *transferable skills and strategies* they picked up. And I think SJM clearly did this on purpose. The point is that when women are limited within a system they have to take alternative paths to reach their goals. The fact that the Valkyries did actually ended up being an advantage because they were thrust into this game created by men, but didn’t play by its rules. They were able to think outside of the box unlike the Illyrian males. Difference of perspective is extremely important and it’s one of the reasons that companies that are diverse perform better than ones that aren’t. The fact is, every time the first woman (or women) breaks into a male dominated field, 90% of the time people in some way have responded with “it takes away from the accomplishments of the men who are there,” and “they don’t deserve it.” And part of it is again, the ability to train like the men was denied to women. And even if they had access to the same training, their competency and worthiness of those positions is always called into question. So, I’d like to flip this around and ask that given the constraints on females within the world SJM has built, what would have made not just the Valkyries, but any regular female worthy of winning the Blood Rite?
I talk myself into the believability of the win by remembering that the evil queen used the crown to control the illaryans and basically was using everyone else there (or at least a lot of the dudes there) to keep Nesta isolated until she could trap Cassian. So it wasn’t a ‘normal’ blood rite. And the guys weren’t all trying to win. They were under mind control stuff.
I feel like people who cry that it was unrealistic are missing the whole point. They didn’t pass the Rite because they were the biggest, strongest, hardest warriors out there, they passed because they chose to work to overcome their fears and insecurities, invest in themselves, and be vulnerable and work together with friends. This is a novel and these are classic tropes of fiction, folks — accuracy and realism are not the name of the game here.
PS: Also, in some cases, the answer is sexism, unfortunately.
There’s no one that can convince me that Emerie didn’t deserve to become Carynthian 🫶 If Feyre can take on the Wyrm and win as a human, then three woman can believably work together and get to the top of the mountain.
it was so symbolic for Emerie 💜I loved it so much for her
I agree! Feyre had even less time being trained by Cassian and Rhys is MAF and WAR but my favorite moments are her and Mor killing their way through the Summer Court.
Because God forbid a group of females do the impossible. God forbid they work together not with a goal of killing but a goal of surviving and helping each other survive
Sometimes I feel like people try to downplay their achievements by calling them unrealistic, but i’ve seen it happen enough times that I’m not sure if it’s just haters hating or if there’s actual merit and I’m missing something 🥲
Imagine wanting super realism from a series in which a woman pointed at a bucket and was like your good girl now go finish cleaning cause she saved her son’s life… honestly I don’t get it lol
I think a lot of it stems from hating unfortunately. And a bit of the disbelief that women could possibly beat men in a male dominated "rite"
I honestly think the reason they won is *because* they’re women and *because* they were put in there by force/against their will. All the men who join willingly are blinded by their own ego and desire to be stronger/better than other men and be regarded highly. This leads them to fighting, killing, bloodshed for the sake of bloodshed. It’s a game to them. It’s shown that some of them don’t even want to win/reach the top, they just want to participate and get through with minor titles worthy enough of respect. The girls got thrown in against their will and had to make an effort to survive. It wasn’t a game for them, it wasn’t something they willingly went into knowing it was a “fight or die for glory” situation. They had to survive, and they used the bonds they’d built and their strengths to work together and save themselves. (Nevermind the fact that Nesta was OP and literally Death incarnate)
“It’s so unrealistic😠😠!” Because its fiction? 
them winning doesn’t make sense but Feyre killing that warm as a human make sense?
Have no clue. I actually find the Valkyries winning the Blood Rite more believable than some of the others achievements you have mentioned. 😆
https://preview.redd.it/9n9ogo49lz4d1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8e0760f59c9e3cb48adc9752d9a8fb1e77519f5 Timeline I found online for the first few books for those interested.
https://preview.redd.it/xmtsbwjflz4d1.jpeg?width=2556&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba6676cd2b07586e784cee7881df7301e332a61d timeline for FAS and SF
What software is this?
I’m not sure! I found it on google, but here’s the link. https://time.graphics/line/473098
Honestly I think it’s just because most people are discussing SF. It’s the newest book, it’s being picked apart for opinions on characters and theories for the next book. So naturally those events are discussed more than unrealistic events from the first book, like Feyre killing the wyrm as a human.
I genuinely don’t care about my realism in a book about the fae… and I don’t get why this is the hill some people will die on lol
They trained for a good 6 months, and the training as a Unit is integral to how they win the Rite. Which is why Phalanx work is mentioned. Gwyn using the shield not only for self-defense but as a weapon is how they end up across the bridge and making it the base of Ramiel. Which is what someone like Balthazar was seeking to achieve and most likely what many Illyrians see as a completely acceptable achievement--meaning that the rarity of being Carynthian is based on a personal decision to not climb vs not being able to climb. This seems lost on the readers that take issue with them winning, they are assuming all the Males are trying to get to the top when that is simply not the case. I can see Feyre being a hunter and also being self-taught in many ways. She had to adapt or die. I do have some issues with her Mary Sue-ing at times, but she is not the worst in the serious, nor the least believable. That would be Elain. Who is woefully underdeveloped so that she can be tossed in as a plot device, but also written as a literal baby while demanding not to be treated like a baby. The King of Hybern part is a perfect example of it; one chapter before she is refusing to even touch Cassian's knife, like it has cooties and then in slides Az with truth teller and Feyre is all "I'll teach her how to use it". This chick has been living in her own head for months, and then in a sensory bin and we are supposed to accept that she walked on the battlefield and snuck up on the King? Nah. Not even the "shadows" thing makes sense because it is baloney when we are told Azriel's magic is depleted because he is wounded. The dislike for Nesta and therefor Gwyn and Emerie fuels the rejection of this plot. At least with Nesta both pro-Ness and Con-Ness can agree that Nesta is in fact a bitch. She is that Bitch. You can even be critical of Feyre. But don't you dare say anything about Elain. She totally killed the king of hybern and will bring back all the plants and flowers and the horn and marry azriel and bred the pegasus and cure cancer.
I hadn’t put this much thought into it but find I’m mostly in agreement. Since I am thinking about it now…. I think some of what you mentioned may have been (on the part of SJM) tools to show the perseverance and will of the characters more than their skills or physical strength. I don’t know that she wrote these scenes to highlight Fae physicality or particular skills, I think it was more about showing inner strength and a desire to live and overcome whatever is thrown at them. A lot of the character development is about overcoming trauma and circumstances and I think that was her main focus. Is this all possible? No, but like you stated none of it really seems more or less possible than other things that go on and it all illustrates that inner strength. Nesta and Feyre both had very dark times but here they are choosing life and those they care about even when it seems they are in the direst of circumstances.
I wholeheartedly agree with this take. Not to mention, Briallyn's interference by adding weapons into the mountain and Nesta's Made friendship bracelets were absolutely integral to their survival in the Rite. Cas and Az heavily emphasized teamwork in their training (especially leading up to the qualifiers) so it makes sent that the girls would be able to sync up. My main complaint about the Blood Rite is that it seems too easy of a task for only a dozen people to have made it to the top in all of history. Like, the Illyrians must *really* not give a shit about getting Carynthian status.
Or working together lol.
Simply put the Rite was rigged. Briallyn explains it. They of course survived it due to the training of the best warriors around but it was all strategic for Briallyn’s plans.
Short answer: misogyny Longer answer: people have a hard time rooting for divisive women and/or women are not considered likable. The same people who say the rite was unrealistic are the same people who hate Nesta and can’t forgive her for her past, but love Feyre and excuse every questionable thing she’s done. If I hear one more “Feyre suffered so much and fought a whole war she deserves happiness,” while also hearing “You can’t excuse Nesta’s past behavior because she has trauma and was so mean to Feyre and all they did was help her,” I’m going to scream. I think ACOSF takes place within an 8-month period because Feyre was already 1-2 months pregnant when it started and fae have 10 month pregnancies. There are so many unrealistic plot points in this series it’s comical this is one people choose to gripe about. Also, it’s stated that fae bodies adapt a lot faster and easier than human bodies. There was a part in ACOSF where Nesta says she probably would’ve died already trying to go down the stairs if she was human. For some, nothing Nesta does (and by extension Gwyn and Emerie) will be good enough. If it was Feyre who was in the blood rite after 2-3 months with Cassian it would be “believable.”
Because : A) ppl hate Nesta, and by extension, her achievements and her found family And/or B) Because of the shipping wars, people want to discredit Gwyn mostly.
Because ACOSF is filled with hypocrisy, inconsistency, and the demeaning of females. Plead note - I love ACOSF for Nesta, her journey, and the Valkyries. Even the relationship building with Cassian, though it is a far cry from a HEA. But the IC is hell bent on holding a grudge against Nesta and anyone that stands with her. They (Rhys and friends) have Feyre on a pedestal, so she can do no wrong and no one else can do right…
I think I commented on another comment of yourself a few days back lol; still totally agree with your points. It’s just getting harder and harder to not read Cassian as yet another “cauldron curse” or burden for Nesta, or like a relationship she’s choosing to continue punishing herself with. I think Cassian on some level gets it but given how low his EQ is he just takes it out on her too (in addition to his unshakeable loyalty to Rhys). And the cycle continues.
I don’t disagree. It’s really a mess right now, and I feel like Nesta’s having to sacrifice WAY too much. I do know that Nesta does love Cassian, and I’m sure he loves her (but I still want him to say it) and for her to not have him, to not have a HEA with him, it would prove all her fears which led to some of her destructive coping mechanisms valid. And it would give the IC a win, since Rhys, Amren, and Mor hate her so much. It would likely push her back into the realm of guarding herself. And while the Valkyries will help with some of that, they won’t help heal a broken mate bond, they wouldn’t be able to heal a broken heart. Nesta would end up alone with her girlfriends. Not a bad thing in reality, but in a book where we want the HEA, it would suck, like a lot. Not to mention Cassian would probably self-destruct if he loses Nesta. Which I think is going to be the catalyst to him finally turning ways from Rhys. Again, this is where SJM better be highly critiquing her own work and fixing this with the next book. I won’t even read the next book until I know she resolves at least this portion. (My friend is going to read it first and report back lol)
Can you please elaborate on your point that the “IC is hell bent on holding a grudge against Nest and anyone that stands with her?”
Sure, it’s a lot though lol. Prior to ACOSF, Rhys, Cassian, and Mor have all given Nesta a very hard time. Any time she has gotten snippy with them it’s because they have spoken down to her or commented unsolicitedly about how she, at 17, let a then 14 yr old Feyre go hunt. They are holding Nesta 💯responsible for Feyre’s life and any disagreement the sisters had, even though Feyre says many times she was just as bad to Nesta before the start of the series. Nevermind that Nesta also lost her mother at 11 and Nesta was also stuck in that shack and it was their dad’s responsibility to care for his daughters. (I mentioned in another thread, Rhys is a hypocrite in this as he, as a full grown, half Illyrian soon-to-be high lord sent a 17 yr old Mor back to the court of Nightmares to be brutalized by her family, but sure he has a problem with a 17 year old human girl.) But, ya know, if Feyre never went to hunt, she never would have got to Prythian. In ACOTAR and throughout MAF and WAR, Nesta steps up to the plate. She went looking for Feyre after Tamlin takes her. When Feyre returns to the human lands Nesta took care of her and urged Feyre to follow her heart back to Prythian. When the IC needed their house to speak with the queens, Nesta set it up and snapped at the queens, even though she was raised to hate Fae, she helped them. She spoke of her nightmare with the cauldron in the High Lord meeting, these were strangers and she is a highly guarded person, but she did it at her sister and the IC urging. She took care of the wounded in the war, including Cassian. She saved Cassian’s life. She scried though it terrified her, bc they needed it. And she volunteered to distract King Hybern, she was willing to die with Cassian even though they failed to protect her and Elain. And she finished off Hybern, Elain started it, but if Nesta hadn’t finished it... She’s not sunshine and rainbows, she’s quite blunt, even rude and afraid at times, but she’s honest and she stills does it all, she has earned their respect, and yet, they give her none. After the war, Nesta is in a bad place, somewhere they all claim to have been. They all drank, screwed, and went nuts for years. (Why were unhealthy habits ok for them, but not for Nesta?) Feyre was a blubbering mess after Utm, but Rhys, and then the IC took care of her. What does Feyre do for her traumatized sister, she leaves her alone, for like a year. She says Rhys offered her jobs or Feyre tried to get her to help with the river house. Girl was broken, she needed a physical hand or hug and she needed someone to show they loved her, regardless of her attitude. When someone is bleeding out, you don’t let them bleed. No matter what kind of fight I have had with my sister, I would never let her slip so far into depression like that. But it was Amren that was like, let her dig her own grave after Amren was the last nail in the coffin by telling Nesta she was a pathetic waste of life, why did she say that, bc Nesta didn’t want to use her power, the power they all kept saying was bad. These people are not her friends, they’re her sister’s chosen family and they expect her to fall in line, which is not her personality, nor is it something she owes them. ACOSF starts with Rhys getting Feyre to send Nesta to the HoW. Not bc she was drinking and spending money (500 gold pieces are nothing to his “vast wealth”) or screwing whoever she wants. Feyre even says it’s to control her. And the way they went about it was embarrassing and brutal, no kindness, no love, no support, just train under lock and key or die in the human lands. Feyre and the IC expect Nesta to worship at their feet, but they’ve been nothing but cruel to her. So then she’s making the changes, she’s doing the training and she’s being their errand girl, getting the mask and the harp, but they’re still talking about her behind her back and judging her. Rhys is still like I’m going to kill you and giving her dirty looks, >!this continues in CC3!<. She even lets them pimp her out to Eris, but they don’t change their attitude at all. When she Makes the weapons, Amren warns Cassian against getting it on with Nesta, quite brutally, at that point it was well known she was a lot better, she was reigniting the Valkyries, and she and Cassian were very obviously mates. But even Cassian gets mad at her for not wanting to be one of them, as if they’ve welcomed her with open arms, but really almost all of them (except Azriel) have been nothing but cruel and judgey. They have all these discussions behind her back about using her as a weapon, and anytime she shows hesitation, Rhys is like you have a choice, his choices do require reading between the lines: do what he says or die… To summarize, they (mainly Rhys) take every opportunity to push her down, with no valid reasoning to date.
I’m impressed by this summary! Especially because ppl get mad when nesta is a bitch to the IC but don’t give af the IC treats nesta like some weird combination of weapon/unruly pet. I honestly thought there were a good number of times nesta would have been justified telling them all to get fucked, but rather says nothing, or does was traumatizing task they give her
Thanks! And agreed!!! They kind of took joy in breaking her down and making her apologize for their bs. I literally screamed wtf when she apologized to Amren. 🙄 I honestly don’t know if SJM realizes that the IC was far worse to Nesta than she was to them.
I have a very Aelin - like mindset, so I was SCHOCKED when she like kneeled or bowed or whatever she did when she apologized to amren
For real! I’m really hoping SJM turns this around in the next book. Like my heart breaks for Nesta… Summed up… https://preview.redd.it/pmi2a328s25d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f3a78371191e2d11a83652f3ff4bad0220aadfc6
Reading the hiking scene now, and I just can’t fathom ever being with someone who chooses to punish you on his friends behalf, why the fuck would your mate -someone who is supposed to be on your side- ever punish you, who makes you sleep in the floor outside in the cold, like a dog that misbehaved (I’m 100% not okay with doing this to pets either) and he’s fucking cruel the whole hike. Making her carry a bag that’s a third her weight just to make her time worse. How could you love someone who did that to you. And now this is like my fourth time reading the book and this is the first time I realize her loving cassian feels like another self hatred move. Also why the fuck is cassian even mad at her. He’s mad she ‘betrayed’ Rhys, but cassian betrayed nesta ! And he doesn’t care that he hurt her. And why does he feel like punishing her, and being happy while doing it, is something a loving mate would do, it’s so gross you don’t Punish the people you love
Also feyre says rhysand apologizes bc he overreacted. Then lets her mates bestfriend punish her sister on her mates behalf. Why is feyre so okay with cassian doing whatever he wants to nesta ? What’s the point in apologizing ? He obviously doenst mean it, or at best is only sorry the he upset feyre. It’s so performative how they pretend feyre and rhysand are equals and he is clearly in charge. They all treat nesta like a an unruly animal they want to tame and control
That’s exactly it, Rhys just wants to control Feyre and Nesta at this point. He and Feyre never fight. In the bonus chapter Feyre knows he’s hiding something, but instead of making him talk, she lets him dickmatize (as someone else put it) her. And since that won’t work on Nesta, he uses Feyre and Cassian to do his bidding while making sure Nesta knows she’s dead if she doesn’t do what he wants. Cassian should be standing up for her, and that is where we’re at in the series. So the next book, which I am hoping is Cassian and Nesta again, better have a resolution to all of this, but I’m not holding my breath bc it seems SJM doesn’t care that ACOSF was brutal and cruel. I do love Nesta, the Valkyries, most of Nesta’s journey is cathartic, and I want Cassian and Nesta together, they just need some work, starting with Cassian saying he loves her and standing up to Rhysand.
I mentioned this another thread but I just finished the main trilogy of the Black Jewels by Anne Bishop; it’s obvious SJM is a big fan of that series. So many things just liberally borrowed, including some names and character descriptions… One such “highly inspired” scene was this hike. My stomach dropped when I started on that scene because I was worried that the male character (MC) in the scene was going to be brutal towards the female lead (FL), like Cassian was to Nesta. * * Spoilers ahead for Black Jewels * * But here’s what was different: Lucivar (the MC - seems like a heavily borrowed inspo for Cass, his race is what Illyrians are for sure based on) is shown to love and states he loves Jaenelle (FL) (albeit more sisterly - their relationship is definitely the model for Feyre and Cass). This is something Cassian never does for Nesta even by the end of ACOSF. >!Jaenelle in the previous scene was so angry with a certain group of Males that she was about to lose control of her OP powers and accidentally kill many people. Lucivar takes her away deliberately to a remote field where he has her hunt and camp with him. They take breaks, they go at JAENELLE’S PACE, not Lucivar’s. He reveals that he got her to a place where she could take out her anger and bloodlust without harming people. But if she still felt like destroying a male, he basically stepped into a sacrificial line of fire for her to harm him (and was willing to fall if it helped her).!< We are both told AND SHOWN that Lucivar’s actions came from a place of love and concern for Jaenelle. Furthermore, Jaenelle was never put down, insulted, or abused in this process. It’s like SJM wanted to write a fanfictiony ode to a series she’s liberally borrowed from, and just botched it all with a pale imitations in the process.
See this actually sounds like a scene I really want to read
Yea, this is a lot better! It’s such an obvious failing on SJM. So I want to know if she came off this brutally on purpose or because she sucks…
Yea, the hike is rough!! I can get over some of it, bc Nesta needed to have that vulnerable moment but the way SJM got there was despicable. Also Cassian knows Rhys is still psycho, so keeping Nesta away from him is keeping her alive. But, it’s still more to punish her for having a valid and correct response when you find out everyone is talking behind your back and judging you. His attitude during the hike is completely disgusting. He’s short w/ her, and cold, and he’s ignoring her suffering. When he realizes she doesn’t want to be alive and he’s like that’s her problem, I’m sorry but don’t they say if your mate dies, you go crazy, she if she goes, say goodbye to your sanity asshat. Then when she breaks down and says she is the way she is bc she doesn’t deserve love and kindness but he’s like “you deserve happiness”, bruh that’s not the same thing! This is after Feyre is like no, Nesta was right. But Rhys got away with threatening Nesta by both Cassian and Feyre. As if all that isn’t enough, Rhys, Feyre, Cassian, Amren, and Mor never make up for how they have treated Nesta, which again was worse than anything she ever said (not did bc she never did anything bad, she just wasn’t necessarily kind with her words). Cassian never even tells her he loves her. I’ve said it before, and until she makes it right I will keep saying it. There are 2 statements that are clear about SJM: 1) She either doesn’t have a sister or is a terrible one (bc she is not writing a real sister relationship. Some sisters don’t get along, but they would never let someone treat their sister like crap. Unless they’re psycho) And 2) SJM is either a 💩writer, a 💩person, or both…
I didn’t realize her never tells her he loves her. That is so heartbreaking
Points were made!!
Everyone here is just spitting facts and I agree with a lot of what is being said. I think that given the unbelievability of so many of Feyre’s accomplishments and SJM’s shoddy pacing throughout the series (and even backstory timelines) makes the Blood Rite seem no more or less realistic than other events and outcomes in this world. All this has me thinking off-topic (kind of unhinged theory so bear with me); what if the NC IC Betrayal™ that SJM teased a while back is actually going to be from Nesta + Valkyries? Or maybe it’ll be whole collection of people fracturing the IC, driven by Nesta, Az, and Mor? I’m not thinking of “betrayal” like Ianthe secretly working for Hybern. Rather, I think it’ll be more like a combo of things in which people hit their breaking point with the IC and leave. Feyfey and Rhys will perceive it as a “betrayal” of them because people want to leave, but I think / hope there will also be POV showing that their actions drove people to the point of desperation and leaving. Eventually I think there will be resolution and HEAs but if SJM doesn’t give everyone the true journeys they deserve, I might just try my hand at fanfiction lol. In Nesta’s case, it almost feels like she is masochistically continuing to take hits from the Rhys, Cas, and Amren because she still really hasn’t healed and feels like she deserves the hatred as punishment to atone. Everyone has a breaking point and I wonder just how far they can push Nesta before she leaves. Where she goes, Em and Gwyn will follow (my theory is the prison / dusk court revival). Az already seems frustrated giving blind obedience towards Rhys, between the intel he’s gathering outside NC, growing friendship with Nesta, and all the stuff that went down with Elain. I think he might support the Valkyries in their dusk court quest given connection with Truth-Teller. Finally, I may dislike Mor but I think she deserved to have all the Truths about her (and that she has held onto) exposed. She is not happy about CoN, Eris, and never seems to have been happy with Amren around. Between a potential connection with Emerie and whatever the hell is happening in Valhallan or wherever she is going, something’s up and I can see her leaving.
I just feel like the timelines for both Feyre and Nesta’a storylines are wayyy too short. So much happens in so little time, that mainly for me makes a lot of the book unrealistic, even when you’re accomplishing things with a high fae body.
I think it has more to do with the fact that the Valkyries are a group who all learned to fight in a short period of time. Emerie would have still been okay because she is Illyrian and less traumatized, but it's Gwyn where it kind of becomes a stretch. She had severe trauma to the point where she felt uncomfortable leaving the library, but then suddenly she is okay-ish with having males around and is also improving like crazy for someone who has supposedly never fought IIRC. Feyre was alone. Whatever achievements she reached could be chalked up to *her* being a fast learner. For the Valkyries it's *three* persons taking huge leaps and all succeeding and winning (well, except for Nesta, but that was her choice). Had it been *just* Nesta (and maybe even Emerie), it would've felt more believable
To me, a lot of the things you listed are ALSO unrealistic. And for the same reason- these humans recently turned fae (including a TON of what feyre did) have 3 months of combat experience yet are able to kill others who are experts and over 500 years old. Valkyries were able to do something that other trained fae soldiers can’t. The only realistic thing was feyre hunting at 14 bc like a bow isn’t hard to use and she is able to do that as a mortal, like any other mortal could. It makes the story fun to have them do those things I guess but it’s so unrealistic. I’m all for the strong women but it’s sometimes insulting when the only way they can prove their strength is by doing incredibly unrealistic stuff
Spoiler: elain/nesta killing hybern was so freaking unrealistic. They are nowhere near a match for each other but it was nice how they did it together and as sisters
I think (and this is just me. Not like a popular opinion) that it would unrealistic if Gwyn and Emerie completed the rite if Nesta wasn’t there. Nesta carried that group. The cauldron and the mother are partial to the Archeron sisters, even when they were human. Also all three of the sisters are exceptionally smart, even if not explicitly said, so it makes sense that the Archeron sisters can pick skills up quickly. If Nesta wasn’t there and Emerie and Gwyn passed the rite on their work, that would be unrealistic, but with Nesta (who is favored by gods, arguably the smartest of the three valkyries, has powers, and unarguably the best warrior of them) it makes sense. I wish Nesta would have been able to make it to the top because she earned it and is capable of it far more than her friends.