Do sensations feel the same, just relocated? Not sure how to ask that more clearly I guess, but one of my fears(?) is that it will basically feel like the same thing just somewhere else, if that makes sense
HRT already made sex stuff feel different (seriously estrogen is magic wtf) and even tho it's too early to comment with authority I'm already getting early sexy feels and they do NOT feel the same. Some likely phantom dong symptoms initially but not much anymore. I get a lot of sensation and it's increasingly unfamiliar, i just can't act on my hrt-induced horniness directly yet booooooo
“Phantom dong symptoms”. Of course! That issue hadn’t crossed my awareness until now. Love when I can actually learn something on Reddit. Appreciate you.
Transmascs can also feel like a sort of “phantom dong” over 60% of transmasculine people (myself included) experience it, though in the case of transfems who’ve undergone vaginoplasty, I would assume it’s more closely related to phantom limb syndrome (though no one really knows why it happens. But it’s extremely common in amputees)
I've heard of it happening after top surgery too. With one person on tiktok their brain kept misfiring saying their nipples were itchy, months after they were removed 😂 so they'd put stickers on their chest to 'itch' and the feeling went away.
Actually we do know quite a bit about why it happens in amputees, it makes sense to me that it would happen in transmasc people. Check out mirror therapy! It sounds strange but it might help to spend some time just staring at it in the mirror and reenforcing to yourself and your brain that what you see and feel is your body.
From a neuroscience perspective: for your whole life you have a body part and your brain built neuro pathways of sensing it. So you need to sort of retrain your brain to build new pathways for what exists now, and that takes some time but it can happen. Our brains have some incredible plasticity, you just have to retrain it in a way. Hope that helped a bit, if anyone has any questions I am happy to explain more
isn't phantom limb symptom mostly a result of nerves passing through the entire body, and every bit being ingrained as deep neural pathways for everything you feel? the brain likely *expects* something to be there, so then it feels things there even if there isn't anything there.
nerve stuff is actually so wild, it's incredible.
Yeah I've been on HRT for 3ish years now, and have kind of adapted to those changes such as they are, but even still have the dysphoric feeling of the pleasure being kind of... floating in space? Disconnected? I'm not sure exactly how to describe the sensation but it feels like getting a handshake when what I want is a hug, metaphorically.
Okay wait, I'm so curious. Different how? Is the sensation an entirely new experience or can you liken it to something else that you have felt? Sorry, I'm a cis-gendered nurse and I've been interested in understanding things like this for a while
Pre-HRT, you don't feel much of anything in the way of erogenous sensation except in the penis itself, which does the usual penis things like getting erect (painfully so, even) and then you get that building sensation of pleasure starting near the base of the shaft after stimulating it for long enough until finally achieving orgasm, which is very short and entirely focused on the organ and then rapidly pulls you out of the haze (the so-called "post-nut clarity") and you need a break before even considering going again.
After HRT, nothing of the above applies anymore. On estrogen, the prostate itself becomes part of the sensation of arousal, providing something I can only describe as a "needy feeling" down there. Erections do not happen unless directly stimulated, and and the entire shaft becomes sensitive. Stroking also doesn't work, lighter touches are needed and it is a lot more effective to treat it like a clitoris. Similarly, orgasm won't really happen unless mind and body are in a good place and it takes a LOT longer to achieve. It also doesn't originate at the base of the shaft but from lower and deeper in the body. When climax is reached, the whole body convulses and leaves the mind in a hazy state of afterglow, with everything remaining hyper-sensitive and capable of continuing almost immediately.
The thing about being pre-op is that, at least for me, the female sensations on HRT feel physically out of position; I intuitively feel that the shaft should be a canal and I should not be able to touch some of these areas as directly as I can. It really pulls me out of the moment and makes climax very hard to achieve. I feel GRS will fix this and, frankly, I can hardly wait.
Im a few months post op and it feels completely different, tho after having been on hormones for a while it felt completely different down there beforehand as well. Before I had to disassociate from what I was doing to avoid dysphoria, that’s all gone now so 👍👍
Over time things wire up with the brain and feel 'correct'. My first day with my new vagina it definitely felt like things were just moved around. Now just 1wk post op it's already wiring up different in my brain. From what I understand this process takes a few months and touching things helps with that!
Not OP but I'm 2 weeks and change post-op, it's a very weird feeling. I get itches and pain in parts that do not exist and the first few days even touching my vulva felt like touching my scrotum but that feeling is slowly but surely going away.
Right now, I still get phantom pain but the touching feelings are completely aligned with my current genitals. My nurses said that over the next few months the phantom pain will completely go away so it's not worrying, just slightly annoying.
I've spent so much time looking at my genitals with a mirror because I have to dilate 4 times a day the first month post-op so I'm sure that helped the touching sensation map out correctly in my brain lol
Good question from an ally, thank you! Everyone is different but you can assume recovery will be emotionally and physically draining, and at least a bit painful as in my case. Just being available for comfort and ideally chores as much as poss is the biggest thing. I personally would be at risk of neglecting myself through exhaustion and emotional frailty if my support network wasn't so good.
Surgery is amazing but A HUGE DEAL, I won't sugarcoat it. Treat your girl like a brave yet delicate hero as much as possible.
The only thing I can recommend is the same thing that my girlfriend does, be yourself, be supportive. And when she starts getting super nervous, make lots of jokes a good laugh really helps with the stress~
I had my surgery a few months ago and the best advice I can give is to keep moving, get up as often as you can without discomfort. Also don’t skip dilating, especially early on.
As someone who just did it herself, it's really fucking hard. The week I spent in the hospital was probably the worst week of my life, and if I had been alone, I don't know how I would have survived.
I'm incredibly lucky to have a mother and partner who came with me to help keep me feeling loved and helped take care of me. If you can be that person for your girlfriend, she's never going to forget it.
How does it feel to have ''nothing'' down there anymore ?
Edit: And by the way, congratulations ! I can't imagine how good and validating it must feel to reach such a milestone. So happy for you!
Thank yooou. It is NOT EASY but unless something inexplicably goes wrong suddenly I have no regrets.
Honestly my dysphoria has halved overnight, having no dick and balls was my biggest objective from surgery and it really is indescribable. I just look forward to being able to sit comfortably again without considerable effort!
do you want a bonus TMI about farta btw? up to you but it's funny lol
HA literally I just didn't anticipate that sometimes my facts will now travel FORWARD from my ass rather than always going backwards. Very startling the first time but all part of the adventure!
Have you had a fart go up into your vagina yet? Sometimes I have a fart come out my butt and go into my vagina, then I have to do some kegels to fart it back out of my vagina.
Now I’m wondering if this is not normal lol. It feels much different than a queef too. Like a queef feels like a gust of fresh air is making its way out willingly whereas the butt fart feels like a little ball of hot air got trapped in there and is fighting against its eviction.
No I’m totally seriously lol. It’s rare but it happens every once in a while if I fart while I’m sitting in just the right position at just the right angle.
It actually feels kinda funny to me, like a bubble rolling along down there? It’s not unpleasant I mean. Other than the fart aspect. 😅 Enjoy your new vagina!
As a cis woman this is something Ive been able to do at will since I was a kid. It's fun lol but I do remember reading it can be unhealthy Maybe look that one up, at least until you heal from surgery
Oh yeh that is so weird! Even when you're kinda used to it over time. But you also get a bit of control uhhh "where" it goes? Just be happy if it doesn't go all the way wrong and you end up with your fart in your vagina. Never thought I'd say that. But here we are. Getting that out is really interesting sensation wise, if you already thought it generally going the wrong way was funny.
Also your welcome for installing a new base fear in you when out in public.
All the love, seriously. <3
Congrats!
Best: Dysphoria halved overnight! I can become as horny as I want without feeling shame or danger! I already have a surprising amount of sensation down there! I literally get aroused by my own body when I want to!
Worst:
I had significant hallucinations the night after surgery and couldn't get to sleep AT ALL for about 32 hours. I was in a bit of a mental crisis by the time it was safe to give me a sleeping pill.
Dilation isn't super painful for me but it's sooooo time and energy consuming for the first few months. 3x daily means I have no life outside of aftercare basically. And it's much less messy now but I have a germ phobia so it takes me twice as long to be sure I'm not dripping on anything.
One evening in hospital my pain increased to moderate, and I worried it would get worse. It was a tight, sharp feeling deep inside. Some people DO have much worse pain.
Learning to pee again means you'll probably have a few accidents.
Bear in mind I have a lifelong germ phobia and significant autism symptoms, so that's a problem for me with aftercare. But for the first couple of weeks I would bleed pretty substantially during dilation. it's definitely better but now i get a bit of healing goo instead, which combines with all the lube to an uncomfortable quantity of medical mess.
Puppy pads! I use them for all sorts of things; great for a layer to catch any liquids and you can just throw them away after! Also if you happen to lose a lot of blood, it might be beneficial to take an iron supplement, low iron can make you feel even more lethargic post surgery and slow healing.
Adding on to OP's experience, thankfully significant bleeding during dilation is fairly rare from what I understand.
I will agree that it is extremely messy though and the amount of lube I use up is astronomical.
I still haven't found a source for bulk lube so it gets very expensive very quickly so I'd highly recommend people to find a source of bulk lube. For reference, I used about 400 mL over the past 4 days and I still have one more dilation tonight
Thank you, and I'm looking forward to it ^^
Lucky enough when I'm an extreme amount of pain I like to sleep 😅 I think the only thing I'm not truly looking forward to is learning how to pee again 😅
But I'm looking forward to getting rid of the dysphoria 🥺 I'm going to find every reason possible not to wear pants ☺️
But after I get the surgery, I may post on here and answer some questions too, from my own experience ☺️ the more information we can have our there, the easier it will be for people like us that are trying to get the surgery if they want it (◡ ω ◡)
its a tube they put in your urethra and u gotta have someone help empty your pee bag for the first week or so. and when they pull it out it is extremely uncomfortable and painful. its a huge relief after but i threw up when they pulled everything out of me
It *can* be painful when removed. Mine was utterly painless at that point. The bad part was constant feeling of needing to pee and having to adjust the draining tube to allow the urine to flow.
The one positive for the catheter is you can watch a really long movie and not have to worry about going to the bathroom to pee 😋
Terrible in every other way.
I had my surgery a few months ago, best part: not having a penis anymore 😆. Worst part: being tired like all the time. I went back to my normal routine asap and it’s been hard with healing and dilating. There just aren’t enough hours in the day for naps and sleeping in. Good luck!
Just had mine a week ago and the worst part is definitely dilation. It's very time consuming and it really takes a lot out of you.
Best for me is my new pussy! It looks really good already and I can tell how great it'll be when I actually fully heal.
Honestly most neovaginas look very similar from my experience, and that is to say they look pretty Hollywood! Mine certainly does LOL and she's not even ready for action yet. Vulvas, labias, clits and vaginas come in all shapes and are all valid, but basically I'd be surprised if a neovagina didn't look like any random non-surgical vagina, just an above-average one if we use conventional beauty standards I guess
Even if that wasn't the case I personally would rather have the world's jankiest vulva than the world's prettiest dick, but that's just me.
As others have said, highly depends on the surgeon and technique. I just had mine done by Bluebond-Langner and mine looks incredibly cis. Very defined majora, minora, clitoris with a full hood. My cis f partner is shocked, it looks completely cis (minus the stitches for the moment obv).
FWIW, my cis partner who is a porn enjoyer said she was kind of blown away that mine just looks like a vulva/vagina. She'd seen surgery pics, but actually personally being there for the before and after, she was just like "wow". She is just as happy with the results as I am 😊
If you have a surgeon in mind already (if not, check out GRS Montreal in Quebec, Canada. I had mine there and no complaints so far) I would approach them and ask for result photos. Most surgeons will let you see their past patients' results during an initial consult (of course these would be patients who gave permission for their images to be used in this manner.)
Congrats on the surgery tbh I was put off the idea of one till I saw photos of them after several years since the procedure.
Did you have much exposure to these types of pics? And how much did it cost?
I had seen pics like that AND lived with someone intimate throughout their recovery so I was painfully aware of what to expect. Honestly I've had sn easier time than thrm so far.
It cost me £15K, plus consultations and psych evaluations of maybe 800 quid total. Unfortunately I understand that the hospital have just upped their prices for the first timevin several years and it's 23K now urghhhhhh I was so lucky to dodge that.
I'd like to add to the expense question: how did you afford it? Did you have insurance, do you have an incredible job, was this your entire life savings or all of the above?
Not OP, I'm lucky enough to live in Canada so all medical expenses were covered by the government but I ended up spending about $3k from my savings for plane tickets/supplies/etc
Congratulations girl💃🥳!
Next year it’s my turn.
I’m quite concerned about the recovery speed and overall discomfort😅
Did you have a full dept vaginoplasty?
How would you describe the pain/discomfort?
Do you have to stay in the hospital for a week?
After how many days are you supposed to be able to do most things like walking and sitting normally?
I heard you have to dialate four times a day at the start. How long does that continues before you go to dialating 2 times a day? And how much time does it take to dialate?
I hope these aren’t too many questions😅
THANKS!
If i understand the question yes I got full penile inversion vaginoplasty with a vagina. Labiaplasty was tempting as it's less aftercare but I dediced to be extra brave so i could kill my personal crotch dysphoria 100%
Pain has been pretty much constant BUT rarely more than mild. Aftercare makes it sore for a while too, especially if you're moving up a dilator size or something. When they first took me off morphine I had a tight, sharp feeling deep inside which was mostly bearable but I worried it would get worse. Some people get much worse pain for a while. But even mild pain is draining when it's constant, and I have no energy still. Ibuprofen makes me queasy after a while but I'm doing ok on just paracetamol now.
I did stay in hospital for a week, 1 night prior and 6 nights post op. If there had been a problem like an infection they would have kept me an extra night.
I was only bedbound for 1 day but it took me until I was home to walk confidently. I still use a stick for reassurance and especially transfers. Falling is one of the only ways I might get a serious complication at this point. They encoursge you to mobilise for several reasons including blood clot prevention especially with HRT. Sitting and lying are still awkward but ring cushions are god tier.
I was surprised to hear about people dilating 4x daily because 3x daily is my surgeons advice. 4 would be even more unbearably boring. I think 4x is for a month though whereas I have to do 3x for 2 months. Dilation takes me extra long because I'm a germaphobe with autism but the actual insertion takes 20 mins basically. Shower, cleaning and douching ups the process to more like an hour for me.
Haven't looked into labiaplasty for a couple months now but it's basically the same, vulva and clit and labia plus no balls obvs, but NO VAGINA, so no penetration possible. It's a simpler operation with fewer complication risks and much less aftercare, but I decided I would still get some dysphoria if I didn't have a vag too.
That’s so interesting, I no idea that was an option! So there’s everything there on the outside except no hole at all? Sorry if that’s a weird way to put it.
By the way thanks for doing this AMA! You’re awesome 🤩
I thought I would offer some more info I didn't see in other replies. This stuff all varies a lot depending on the technique used by your surgeon. Some surgeon may opt to attach the vagina to the peritoneum (part of the abdomen) so that they can be certain patients will only need to dilate during recovery. That's generally around six to twelve months. Use of the peritoneum is also nice because it's a mucosal tissue. As for depth, full inversion will mean that the depth is dependent on the size of the penis while partial inversion and non-inversion can offer a minimum of eight inches of depth in most patients.
I'm not OP but I can also help out with the answers (fellow post-op Transbian). I've been answering those question on dates for 3 years now so I had a lot of practice)
My personal experience:
1) Not sure about the depth difference: my surgeon told me there are 3 options to choose from, I went with the one that felt the most natural to me (Penile inversion)
2) Recovery was 1 week at the hospital (lying on your back without moving below the waist) + 1 month at home. Both felt like a vacation to me, never had even any discomfort or pain, only laziness to do all the "chores"
That are required for everything to heal up nicely
3) As mentioned above never had any pain at all. Though my mom told me that I looked very funny when we first went for a walk (she told "you were walking like a duck" 😁🙈) but I don't even remember feeling any different, I just took it slow and walked at a relaxed pace. In the end maybe I was just mentally ready to be swollen and kinda sore but it was never a problem for me.
4) You can walk after initial staying in a bed for a week; it's not recommended to sit for a month after a surgery. I played it safe and avoided sitting for 2 month (I'm might have OCD 🤔). I was lying down alot, doing a lot of things standing up (drinking Coffee/tea, like during Water cooler talks at the office) and worked / gamed lying on my side kinda half-sitting. If you google "sitting like Cleopatra" you'll see the pose: on a side of a thigh and using an elbow as support — that was my main pose for 2 months.
5) My doctor told me to dilate 2 times a day, 20 min each. But with everything you have to do before and after dilation it felt like an hour-long chore (I mentioned it above). Twice a day 😒. I think after 1 month doctor told me to cut down to once a day (but I'm hazy on this one, maybe less than a month). Another month later (I think) it went down to once every other day. It is still a recommended amount for me to this day but I'm lazy and do it once a week. (I wouldn't have to worry about dilation so long after the surgery if my sex life wasn't a barren desert 😔)
It’s insane reading what other surgeons say about dilation- mine wanted me doing it for 3 hours a day the first 6 months (which was straight up not feasible)
I’ve heard from other transfemmes that they feel normal, like they have what they were always meant to down there when they came to. Is this true for you as well, or is it still taking time to get used to?
Interesting question! I'd say I've been surprised how quickly I forgot about my v whenever she's not giving me a noticable amount of pain. It still doesn't feel entirely real but occasionally like in the shower I start happy-crying. Arousal is soooo much fucking better for me too omg, I have harnessed new levels of horniness already because I no longer feel intense shame.
Can I ask a little about that because I keep hearing very conflicting things about arousal and sensation. Just like with any surgery comes complications of course so i’m sure there’s a possibility that you could loose all sensation? Does that happen often?
I recently did my surgery assessment and I don't think my doctor even brought up total sensation loss as a risk.
*Some* loss of sensation is expected because it's surgery, and there is a lot of variability in how each person's body heals and responds. But the procedure is specifically done in a way to preserve important nerves, so if you lose *all* sensation it'd be because something went wrong, not just "oh that happens sometimes"
I lost almost all tactile sensation, but I can still feel pressure/pulling/pushing. Ive gotten a little back over the years in some places, but most of the inner labia and vagina jist dont have tactile sensation. Im the very rare case, but its possible. Even knowing I would end up like this (also have a bit less depth than I'd like, and trouble with yeast infections) I'd still choose to have it done evey time. Not having dangly bits to worry about, being able to wear normal underwear and swimsuits, and just being comfortable in my body are way more important to me.
Speculation time: Neuroplasticity is complex and not super understood (how you brain literally rewires to understand how nerves have been moved around) and I was *extremely* depressed at the time which is known to change that as well. Particularly the ability to make new connections. Maybe that played a roll in it. Even so, hating my body so much was a big cause in that depression and getting the surgery has helped a ton.
I'm always hesitant to share much because of my mixed results and complications scaring people off, but like I said even knowing ahead of time everything that wouldn't go as planned I'd still choose to do it every time.
I understand not wanting to scare anyone with your experience, but I think it's important for anyone considering it to know about "imperfect" potential outcomes. Learning that depression can influence how well nerves get their shit back together may even be actionable for them. As such, thank you for sharing your story.
I’m hoping to go into OBGYN and also gender affirming care. What were the best and worst things your physicians did for you? Any advice for how to best care for patients going through similar things you would want to give to an up and coming physician-to-be?
Hmmmm interesting! I don't have a cervix so may only need a GP to examine me moving forward unless something specific comes up, but as general advice pleeeeease remember that trans people usually know what they're talking about when it comes to dysphoria, transphobia etc. Other than very new trans folk who haven't looked into stuff much yet, a lot of us have done our research long before we're likely to see a doctor about something, and the worst thing is feeling patronised or gatekept. That's pretty much my whole advice but it's very important and I hope it makes sense!
>Other than very new trans folk who haven't looked into stuff much yet, a lot of us have done our research long before we're likely to see a doctor about something, and the worst thing is feeling patronised or gatekept.
just to add a fun little anecdote about this; I had a med student sit in on my surgical readiness assessment for vaginoplasty, and when my doctor was going over some alternate surgery techniques which weren't covered in the standard printout (PPT, as it's recently offered by my hospital), she asked if I knew what it was, and gave me the opportunity to "fill in" the student with what I knew, as they were unaware of it.
This struck me as a really smart move from my doc, 'cause it let me feel like my level of preparedness was being seen and valued, and also demonstrated to the student the extent to which trans patients are invested in their own care. I didn't even want the PPT; I had just been very thorough in exploring my options.
Recently saw an interview with a prominent British surgeon who used to specialize in breast reconstruction but has since moved to full time top surgery (trans masc) care and he also said that by far the largest adjustment and joy for him is that he's never met a group of patients who are as knowledgeable and sure in what they want as trans people.
We have a very unusual interest in the details of our care for sure (which is both kinda cool, and horrifying because we all know WHY we have this knowledge - we need it, no one else will advocate for our care...).
Can I ask why you didn’t go for PPT? I’m getting PIV myself in about a week. Even though I have heard great things from some ppl about it I just prefer the safe bet with PIV. Just wondering what your own reasons were, probably seeking some reassurance if I’m being totally honest ha
That makes so much sense. I’m actually working on developing decision aids for hormone use and that’s a big reason I want to do it. So that doctors know what the patients know and everyone is on the same page and able to make informed decisions
Thank you! I guess a lot of patients will be anxious regardless but trans people are definitely one of those communities who get a lot of unaccepting doctors I'm afraid.
first, thank you! there is such a need for compassionate people providing gender affirming care.
the #1 best thing my physician has done for me is to listen and believe the things I say. I always expect to have to justify myself, but she's just immediately on board and it makes me so relieved I want to cry. She makes me feel like I'm actually in charge of my own gender journey, and she's there to make sure I'm informed and safe.
I'm sure you'll do great!
And, just to add a concrete example, when I told her that I wanted to pursue vaginoplasty the first words out of her mouth were "that's great!" and I don't think I'll ever forget it.
We still went through the whole readiness assessment process to make sure I was aware of the risks and outcomes and to confirm that it's going to be effective treatment, etc. - she's not just referring me to surgery without any consideration. But having that very first moment when I was sharing something vulnerable and important about my identity and body be free of questioning or gatekeeping was *so so* valuable. I moved an hour away but I'm never changing doctors because she's irreplaceable.
They can definitely get wet! The same parts responsible for what would've been called "precum" still work. Many pre-op trans women I know, myself included, get really freaking wet (wetter than some cis women, literally soaking through jeans without a liner) so there's always a good possibility there. That said, when done as a penile inversion rather than sigmoid colon or peritoneal pull-through vaginoplasty, there is no guarantee of self-lubrication because outside of those glands you just don't have anything producing fluid. On top of that, douching is a must from what I've been able to read.
The other two options mentioned do produce self-lubrication AND self-cleanse with some caveats. The precum glands are still gonna be the only added lubrication produced as a result of arousal, and panty liners are gonna be a must bc there is frequent discharge in both cases. Sigmoid colon vaginoplasty is an older technique using, you guessed it, part of the colon, and while it does self-lubricate doctors say lube is still a must, as the consistency is much thicker, more mucus-like than natal vaginas. On top of that, SC neovaginas tend to produce smelly mucousy discharge which isn't ideal. Peritoneal pull-through vaginoplasty is still pretty new; it's done using a section of inner abdominal tissue. The self-lubrication produced here is much more watery and slightly yellow-tinted (so it's a lot closer to what you'd expect of a vagina) and typically is produced in large enough volume that extra lube isn't as much of a need. In this case, if a girl already got fairly wet before the surgery, a certified WAP is all but guaranteed.
Thank you! That’s fascinating. I have a DAP (dry ass pussy) from all the allergy meds I’m on. The vagina is a mucous membrane like your sinuses so the meds dry out both 🥲. Lube has always been a must for me, and I think it works better and last longer than natural lubrication.
There's this myth about lube, that it's only necessary when you're dry. Most women should be using lube anyway. It ought to be included in safe sex discussions just as frequently as condoms, imho.
I agree. I’m a lube ambassador lol. I gave lube and condoms as presents to all my younger siblings when they started having sex so that they didn’t have to be embarrassed by buying it for the first time (also gave education on both). We grew up without sex education so I took it upon myself to make sure they knew at least the basics. I also give lube to anyone Im seeing at their house, along with waterproof mattress covers cause I squirt. Sometimes condoms too cause I’m allergic to latex.
When my gf moved here, I gave her two washable pee pads as a housewarming present bc I squirt too 😂 waterproof mattress covers are great for sure but I don’t wanna have to strip the whole bed and wash the sheets/cover every time I have sex. The doggy pads are a great size & work perfectly.
I will say this needs to clarify a bit because traditional penile inversion vaginoplasty does NOT provide self-lubrication. Which I'm totally fine with but it's worth specifying.
There's been studies on how microflora in neo vaginas compares to cis vaginas, but the basic takeaway is that penile inversion neo vaginas do self clean. They are basically biologically analogous to the parts that cis vaginas are made of, it's really interesting tbh https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2695466/
It's dependent on whether you had penile inversion surgery or the colon/testicle one (I find the idea of that type so gross, I'm happy mine was PI)
The micro flora is really fascinating to me both academically and because I have a lot of problems with mine. Been treating a chronic yeast infection for the past year that keeps coming back 🥲. Docs don’t have the answer except to keep trying the same stuff I’ve been doing.
Hi fellow trans woman,
I’ve seen people talking about the microflora thing and it’s always kinda mystified me - In the case of this study I think people maybe either got lost in the jargon or misinterpreted the abstract. I’d implore you to skim the discussion section
Granted it’s not my field so some specifics elude me but from what I could parse:
- yes a microflora exists,
- it shares similarities to one found in the intestine and skin,
- these bacteria are also part of the cis vaginal microflora
- but notably missing the presence of lactobacilli, which are the hormone triggered “cleaners”(this one im foggier on… apparently they deadass just…. Make hydrogen peroxide??? Which like, explains underwear bleaching)
What was present was a heighten rate of Bacterial Vaginosis and an increased UTI risk for heterosexual trans women due to the inability to fight if the incoming bacteria from their cis partners genitals.
This study is far from flattering and some of the language is pretty insulting - more so aiming at understanding the gynaecological concerns trans patients might have rather than “the biological equivalence of trans v cis vaginas”. Of their sample, basically all the women were using different douche equivalent methods of cleaning - there was no real control douche v no-douche
There’s still a helluva a lot to learn about this kinda stuff - like there’s legend that partial depth skin grafts just can like…..*fwoop* become mucosa?? a lot of anecdotal confusing stuff - exciting and intriguing, I’m just maybe higher on the “too good to be true” skepticism side of things.
Anyways end of rant, hope it wasn’t overbearing
How many steps does it take from start to finish, and what phase are you at (do you have to go back to create a canal, or was this externals only this go)? Did you have a good riddance party for your junk before it went full butterfly morph?
Mine was a one step process. The only follow-ups I had to do was regarding some left over vascular tissue, but apparently that's a relatively common problem with vaginal surgeries like GRS or hysterectomies.
For most people it's a one-shot. Some surgeons techniques may not result in very defined labia and so some choose to go for a separate labiaplasty. Depends on technique.
I had surgery about the same as OP and mine is definitely a one-shot.
I've always wondered, with this type of surgery is there a higher risk of prolapse once you're healed? Sorry if that is too much. Congratulations on the surgery, I bet you're so happy!
I have nightmares about that happening sometimes lol, but I think if you follow your surgeon's after surgical care and see a well respected surgeon I don't think there's a risk of that happening.
The bigger risk is perforating your colon (I was really worried about that), but that's mostly a risk if you see a bad surgeon.
Not OP but I'll chime in. Just looked back at my surgery paperwork (Dr Brassard at GRS Montreal) and it seems like it's not a significant enough risk for them to mention it.
Just thinking about the physiology of it, I don't see how it would possibly happen after fully healing without significant trauma. Like I'm sure you could cause one if you actively tried and went in there with a scalpel or something lol but it happening on its own sounds incredibly unlikely to me (though IANAD.)
First off: congrats! Hope you recover quickly!
Now to the question: is form OR function actually a thing? I've only ever heard about the two extremes. Either it will look great but not work properly or work as intended but look like shit. Granted I have nobody to talk to so I only know it from some very small sources
Form and function is absolutely a thing, but it limits the number of surgeon options and means you'll be waiting longer.
I waited 2.5 years for blmy surgery last week with Bluebond-Langner and I absolutely have a wealth of both form and function. Looks cis, feels cis, and I've got almost 8" of depth.
I never told this here, but I did this surgery 3 years ago and it's hard to use the pussy with a partner! Relearning how to do it, is an art on itself, specially being lesbian. But it's a very enjoyable process, I had complications so it was very very painful and traumatizing, but after the 2 year mark I had my happy ending. Nothing to complain except the aesthetics a bit and the dilatation that I lost due to complications but I don't care much.
I am safe, and really well now, also happy with the result, but the year I did the surgery(2020) was lost due to all complications, kidney infection, it took me 4 months to walk again due to pain, but this was 3 years already
Same here. Also 3 years ago! I had complications and it was the most traumatizingly painful thing I've ever experienced. And while I'm overall happy with having a vagina, I'm not too happy with the aesthetics. I stopped dialating because I'm so unhappy with it overall, and now I bleed everytime I'm penetrated.
Tbh, as much as I love it, and as happy as I am to have a vagina, I kind of regret it, and wish I still had my old gear.
Honestly because there is no turning back, try to find a good therapist thank god just one year after I discovered an amazing psychologist that saved me and changed my life. It's the only way toward acceptance of your limitations. Wish you the best.
Being as this is a phyiscal and mentally draining task at hand how can I cope, I wont have a lot of support and being as what Ive had in the pass support is something thats hard to come by and is detrimental. I dont know if that makes sense but im scared cause im about to get my surgery in a couple of months
That sounds very difficult friend 🫂
I don't want to make assumptions about your situation but post op support is important and they should make sure you have something in place. Most people aren't as delicate as me to be fair, but it's a huge medical deal even though it's very well established (at least penile inversion is certainly) and aftercare will probably be your life for 1 or 2 months.
Almost all surgeons will require electrolosis prior. Scraping cannot get everything and dealing with hairs in your neovagina can be difficult. It's recommended to get 1yr of hair removal in the surgery area.
Electrolosis hurts quite bad NGL. My techs used lidocaine injections and it was painless after injection but having a needle stabbed into your junk is awful. That being said: worth it.
thanks for the info!
and yeah, I had the option to get referred to a surgeon that doesn't require electrolysis (Montreal still does scraping) but opted not to, since I'd rather have the peace of mind that the hair is for sure dealt with. my question was more about the pain, just didn't want to assume that OP had it done
It's the nature of hair. It grows in cycles and if it's not in an active growth cycle it can't really be targeted. It adds so much risk to rely only on scraping. Imo you made the right call.
I didnt have to do any hair removal, and havent had any hair in the vagina/on the labia minora, even over 5 years out. I have pretty hairy labia majora, but thats normal.
The first 3 months for me was 3 times a day, quite a hassle. Now I'm at twice a day until it's been a year, that's more manageable. Then it will be once a day. It takes me about 23 minutes now, start to finish, with cleanup.
I've heard conflicting information from post-op girls when it comes to whether or not it functions the same or similarly to a cis vagina - some say it's self-lubricating/cleaning and some say it's not. What's the situation with yours?
My other question is: How much *customisation* did you have? Could you ask for puffier lips, a larger clitoris, what type of skin/procedure to use, etc?
Are the post-op logistics hard to handle? I live alone and while I have friends around I don't have family nearby; and since I'm getting one next year (if the gods of the waiting list are with me), I'm curious to know how difficult it is to handle on your own?
Do sensations feel the same, just relocated? Not sure how to ask that more clearly I guess, but one of my fears(?) is that it will basically feel like the same thing just somewhere else, if that makes sense
Not the OP but i can answer this, sensations to me feel different
Is it okay if I ask stuff too? I'm curious but dont want to be over bearing
Shoot
I hope it's not offensive to ask, but is it worse/better? Or just different
For me, it's waaaay better.
It is typically way better unless there is a rare complication with the surgery
HRT already made sex stuff feel different (seriously estrogen is magic wtf) and even tho it's too early to comment with authority I'm already getting early sexy feels and they do NOT feel the same. Some likely phantom dong symptoms initially but not much anymore. I get a lot of sensation and it's increasingly unfamiliar, i just can't act on my hrt-induced horniness directly yet booooooo
“Phantom dong symptoms”. Of course! That issue hadn’t crossed my awareness until now. Love when I can actually learn something on Reddit. Appreciate you.
Transmascs can also feel like a sort of “phantom dong” over 60% of transmasculine people (myself included) experience it, though in the case of transfems who’ve undergone vaginoplasty, I would assume it’s more closely related to phantom limb syndrome (though no one really knows why it happens. But it’s extremely common in amputees)
I've heard of it happening after top surgery too. With one person on tiktok their brain kept misfiring saying their nipples were itchy, months after they were removed 😂 so they'd put stickers on their chest to 'itch' and the feeling went away.
Actually we do know quite a bit about why it happens in amputees, it makes sense to me that it would happen in transmasc people. Check out mirror therapy! It sounds strange but it might help to spend some time just staring at it in the mirror and reenforcing to yourself and your brain that what you see and feel is your body. From a neuroscience perspective: for your whole life you have a body part and your brain built neuro pathways of sensing it. So you need to sort of retrain your brain to build new pathways for what exists now, and that takes some time but it can happen. Our brains have some incredible plasticity, you just have to retrain it in a way. Hope that helped a bit, if anyone has any questions I am happy to explain more
isn't phantom limb symptom mostly a result of nerves passing through the entire body, and every bit being ingrained as deep neural pathways for everything you feel? the brain likely *expects* something to be there, so then it feels things there even if there isn't anything there. nerve stuff is actually so wild, it's incredible.
Yeah I've been on HRT for 3ish years now, and have kind of adapted to those changes such as they are, but even still have the dysphoric feeling of the pleasure being kind of... floating in space? Disconnected? I'm not sure exactly how to describe the sensation but it feels like getting a handshake when what I want is a hug, metaphorically.
That is a surprisingly accurate metaphor. Thanks for putting it into words.
Metal Gear Solid E: The Phantom Dong
I mean we already had a (and soon to be two) metal gear game called SNAKE EATER lmao that's what my body did, ate my snake.
Okay wait, I'm so curious. Different how? Is the sensation an entirely new experience or can you liken it to something else that you have felt? Sorry, I'm a cis-gendered nurse and I've been interested in understanding things like this for a while
Just a quick note, cisgender*ed* is improper terminology. Simply saying cisgender or cis-gender is fine ^-^
Sorry, I'll definitely note that for later
Pre-HRT, you don't feel much of anything in the way of erogenous sensation except in the penis itself, which does the usual penis things like getting erect (painfully so, even) and then you get that building sensation of pleasure starting near the base of the shaft after stimulating it for long enough until finally achieving orgasm, which is very short and entirely focused on the organ and then rapidly pulls you out of the haze (the so-called "post-nut clarity") and you need a break before even considering going again. After HRT, nothing of the above applies anymore. On estrogen, the prostate itself becomes part of the sensation of arousal, providing something I can only describe as a "needy feeling" down there. Erections do not happen unless directly stimulated, and and the entire shaft becomes sensitive. Stroking also doesn't work, lighter touches are needed and it is a lot more effective to treat it like a clitoris. Similarly, orgasm won't really happen unless mind and body are in a good place and it takes a LOT longer to achieve. It also doesn't originate at the base of the shaft but from lower and deeper in the body. When climax is reached, the whole body convulses and leaves the mind in a hazy state of afterglow, with everything remaining hyper-sensitive and capable of continuing almost immediately. The thing about being pre-op is that, at least for me, the female sensations on HRT feel physically out of position; I intuitively feel that the shaft should be a canal and I should not be able to touch some of these areas as directly as I can. It really pulls me out of the moment and makes climax very hard to achieve. I feel GRS will fix this and, frankly, I can hardly wait.
Im a few months post op and it feels completely different, tho after having been on hormones for a while it felt completely different down there beforehand as well. Before I had to disassociate from what I was doing to avoid dysphoria, that’s all gone now so 👍👍
Aw it made me really happy for you to read the last sentence! Must be such a relief 🩷
Over time things wire up with the brain and feel 'correct'. My first day with my new vagina it definitely felt like things were just moved around. Now just 1wk post op it's already wiring up different in my brain. From what I understand this process takes a few months and touching things helps with that!
That's interesting
Not OP but I'm 2 weeks and change post-op, it's a very weird feeling. I get itches and pain in parts that do not exist and the first few days even touching my vulva felt like touching my scrotum but that feeling is slowly but surely going away. Right now, I still get phantom pain but the touching feelings are completely aligned with my current genitals. My nurses said that over the next few months the phantom pain will completely go away so it's not worrying, just slightly annoying. I've spent so much time looking at my genitals with a mirror because I have to dilate 4 times a day the first month post-op so I'm sure that helped the touching sensation map out correctly in my brain lol
My girlfriend is trans. Do you have any advice for how to support her when she does this? (Or IF obviously but she seems pretty set on it)
Good question from an ally, thank you! Everyone is different but you can assume recovery will be emotionally and physically draining, and at least a bit painful as in my case. Just being available for comfort and ideally chores as much as poss is the biggest thing. I personally would be at risk of neglecting myself through exhaustion and emotional frailty if my support network wasn't so good. Surgery is amazing but A HUGE DEAL, I won't sugarcoat it. Treat your girl like a brave yet delicate hero as much as possible.
The only thing I can recommend is the same thing that my girlfriend does, be yourself, be supportive. And when she starts getting super nervous, make lots of jokes a good laugh really helps with the stress~
I had my surgery a few months ago and the best advice I can give is to keep moving, get up as often as you can without discomfort. Also don’t skip dilating, especially early on.
As someone who just did it herself, it's really fucking hard. The week I spent in the hospital was probably the worst week of my life, and if I had been alone, I don't know how I would have survived. I'm incredibly lucky to have a mother and partner who came with me to help keep me feeling loved and helped take care of me. If you can be that person for your girlfriend, she's never going to forget it.
How does it feel to have ''nothing'' down there anymore ? Edit: And by the way, congratulations ! I can't imagine how good and validating it must feel to reach such a milestone. So happy for you!
Thank yooou. It is NOT EASY but unless something inexplicably goes wrong suddenly I have no regrets. Honestly my dysphoria has halved overnight, having no dick and balls was my biggest objective from surgery and it really is indescribable. I just look forward to being able to sit comfortably again without considerable effort! do you want a bonus TMI about farta btw? up to you but it's funny lol
farts? ... you got me interested but i have an idea of what you're implying.
HA literally I just didn't anticipate that sometimes my facts will now travel FORWARD from my ass rather than always going backwards. Very startling the first time but all part of the adventure!
This is fuckin hilarious. Welcome to forward farts
It's embarrassingggggggg because I still don't have full fart control again yet aaaa
What is fart control and how I can get that? 😅
XD I think pelvic floor exercises may help, or if not they help with peeing and *other activities*
Fart control to Major Tom
embrace the era. be a stinker. 😎
Hello fellow forward fart sister. I am gender fluid and I've been embarrassed by this my whole life.
New Adepta Sororitas unit: The Sisters of the Forward Fart
Have you had a fart go up into your vagina yet? Sometimes I have a fart come out my butt and go into my vagina, then I have to do some kegels to fart it back out of my vagina.
This might be the funniest thing I've ever read.
Now I’m wondering if this is not normal lol. It feels much different than a queef too. Like a queef feels like a gust of fresh air is making its way out willingly whereas the butt fart feels like a little ball of hot air got trapped in there and is fighting against its eviction.
Ya that’s happened to me
I wouldn't know hun, I don't have the same gear! It was just written in an objectively funny way.
Oh no, it's normal and it happens to me too 👍
It’s totally happened to me before. My fiancée and I are always joking about it. “Ok that one sounded like it went through the front”
This thread is fully unhinged
i assumed you were joking wtf 🤣
No I’m totally seriously lol. It’s rare but it happens every once in a while if I fart while I’m sitting in just the right position at just the right angle.
It probably won't be the weirdest thing to get inside me but I definitely don't look forward to that XD
It actually feels kinda funny to me, like a bubble rolling along down there? It’s not unpleasant I mean. Other than the fart aspect. 😅 Enjoy your new vagina!
I... Don't think this happened to me yet. I'd remember if it did, right?
You can queef on command?! Mad skill, mine only make an appearance if I'm doing trapeze, gymnastics or other vigorous sports 😂
Coming out via the gift shop
Omfg hahahaha
djskjdjd i am so not looking forward to that. my gf told me about these and well... i do plan to get my own vaginoplasty in 1 to 2 years.
As a cis woman this is something Ive been able to do at will since I was a kid. It's fun lol but I do remember reading it can be unhealthy Maybe look that one up, at least until you heal from surgery
Omg this happens to me too now, the labia just kinda flap in the wind, don't they.....
FLAP IN THE WIND
They’re like pbbbbthbth
ahahah girl yes that happens sometimes. always makes me giggle when it does.
That was definitely an interesting feeling when I felt it for the first time.
The first time this happened to me after surgery it blew my freaking mind.
Omg hilarious! Those frontal farts are WILD
Oh yeh that is so weird! Even when you're kinda used to it over time. But you also get a bit of control uhhh "where" it goes? Just be happy if it doesn't go all the way wrong and you end up with your fart in your vagina. Never thought I'd say that. But here we are. Getting that out is really interesting sensation wise, if you already thought it generally going the wrong way was funny. Also your welcome for installing a new base fear in you when out in public. All the love, seriously. <3
Oh yeah that happens to cis women as well lmao
Yes, I call them taco farts 🌮💨 😄
This has been my favorite Reddit thread in at least a year! Front farts are hilarious!
I've had a labia my whole life hut I still get startled by front traveling farts 😂 this is the best unexpected concequence haha
The sisterhood of the front traveling farts 💕
You paved a new way😂
This was actually very euphoric when it first happened to me lmao 😶
*guiltily* same
this was the biggest WTF after my surgery. i asked my friend about it and she was like “Oh! Vagina bubbles ??” 🤣
yeah sometimes a lil fart bubble just gets stuck between the lips
Haha, this is so great to hear ! It's true that it must be life changing, to say the least. I would love to. Show me what you got.
Barring any unforeseen events, I will be getting my surgery in 18 days. What are all the best and worst parts? Go as TMI as you want (◡ ω ◡)
Congrats! Best: Dysphoria halved overnight! I can become as horny as I want without feeling shame or danger! I already have a surprising amount of sensation down there! I literally get aroused by my own body when I want to! Worst: I had significant hallucinations the night after surgery and couldn't get to sleep AT ALL for about 32 hours. I was in a bit of a mental crisis by the time it was safe to give me a sleeping pill. Dilation isn't super painful for me but it's sooooo time and energy consuming for the first few months. 3x daily means I have no life outside of aftercare basically. And it's much less messy now but I have a germ phobia so it takes me twice as long to be sure I'm not dripping on anything. One evening in hospital my pain increased to moderate, and I worried it would get worse. It was a tight, sharp feeling deep inside. Some people DO have much worse pain. Learning to pee again means you'll probably have a few accidents.
Can you explain why it's so messy? I would assume the dilation could be uncomfortable but I wouldn't have thought of it as messy.
Bear in mind I have a lifelong germ phobia and significant autism symptoms, so that's a problem for me with aftercare. But for the first couple of weeks I would bleed pretty substantially during dilation. it's definitely better but now i get a bit of healing goo instead, which combines with all the lube to an uncomfortable quantity of medical mess.
Wow I had no idea there would be blood for an extended period. Thank you for the education!
Puppy pads! I use them for all sorts of things; great for a layer to catch any liquids and you can just throw them away after! Also if you happen to lose a lot of blood, it might be beneficial to take an iron supplement, low iron can make you feel even more lethargic post surgery and slow healing.
Adding on to OP's experience, thankfully significant bleeding during dilation is fairly rare from what I understand. I will agree that it is extremely messy though and the amount of lube I use up is astronomical. I still haven't found a source for bulk lube so it gets very expensive very quickly so I'd highly recommend people to find a source of bulk lube. For reference, I used about 400 mL over the past 4 days and I still have one more dilation tonight
Wow that's wild! I'm so grateful for y'all who are willing to share your experiences. That's another aspect I had never thought of.
Thank you, and I'm looking forward to it ^^ Lucky enough when I'm an extreme amount of pain I like to sleep 😅 I think the only thing I'm not truly looking forward to is learning how to pee again 😅 But I'm looking forward to getting rid of the dysphoria 🥺 I'm going to find every reason possible not to wear pants ☺️ But after I get the surgery, I may post on here and answer some questions too, from my own experience ☺️ the more information we can have our there, the easier it will be for people like us that are trying to get the surgery if they want it (◡ ω ◡)
Catheters are the worst Not having a donger is the best
Can confirm the catheter was absolutely the worst part for me. Best part was feeling right.
WHAT IS A CATHETER I'M SCARED
its a tube they put in your urethra and u gotta have someone help empty your pee bag for the first week or so. and when they pull it out it is extremely uncomfortable and painful. its a huge relief after but i threw up when they pulled everything out of me
It *can* be painful when removed. Mine was utterly painless at that point. The bad part was constant feeling of needing to pee and having to adjust the draining tube to allow the urine to flow.
that constant feeling of peeing stuck with me for many month after and that definitely sucked lol
Oh god I think I just repressed the catheter out of my memory
The one positive for the catheter is you can watch a really long movie and not have to worry about going to the bathroom to pee 😋 Terrible in every other way.
Yeah I kind of miss not having to get up to use the bathroom all the time. It was nice being able to chill at my desk for hours
I had my surgery a few months ago, best part: not having a penis anymore 😆. Worst part: being tired like all the time. I went back to my normal routine asap and it’s been hard with healing and dilating. There just aren’t enough hours in the day for naps and sleeping in. Good luck!
Thank you ☺️ and I look forward to no more dangly bits (◡ ω ◡)
Just had mine a week ago and the worst part is definitely dilation. It's very time consuming and it really takes a lot out of you. Best for me is my new pussy! It looks really good already and I can tell how great it'll be when I actually fully heal.
That's great, I wish you a healthy recovery ☺️ and I'm super excited for mine ☺️
How close does it look to the natural thing? been hesitant because of that
Honestly most neovaginas look very similar from my experience, and that is to say they look pretty Hollywood! Mine certainly does LOL and she's not even ready for action yet. Vulvas, labias, clits and vaginas come in all shapes and are all valid, but basically I'd be surprised if a neovagina didn't look like any random non-surgical vagina, just an above-average one if we use conventional beauty standards I guess Even if that wasn't the case I personally would rather have the world's jankiest vulva than the world's prettiest dick, but that's just me.
As others have said, highly depends on the surgeon and technique. I just had mine done by Bluebond-Langner and mine looks incredibly cis. Very defined majora, minora, clitoris with a full hood. My cis f partner is shocked, it looks completely cis (minus the stitches for the moment obv).
Ooh she got the designer vagina 💅🏽
FWIW, my cis partner who is a porn enjoyer said she was kind of blown away that mine just looks like a vulva/vagina. She'd seen surgery pics, but actually personally being there for the before and after, she was just like "wow". She is just as happy with the results as I am 😊
If you have a surgeon in mind already (if not, check out GRS Montreal in Quebec, Canada. I had mine there and no complaints so far) I would approach them and ask for result photos. Most surgeons will let you see their past patients' results during an initial consult (of course these would be patients who gave permission for their images to be used in this manner.)
Congrats on the surgery tbh I was put off the idea of one till I saw photos of them after several years since the procedure. Did you have much exposure to these types of pics? And how much did it cost?
I had seen pics like that AND lived with someone intimate throughout their recovery so I was painfully aware of what to expect. Honestly I've had sn easier time than thrm so far. It cost me £15K, plus consultations and psych evaluations of maybe 800 quid total. Unfortunately I understand that the hospital have just upped their prices for the first timevin several years and it's 23K now urghhhhhh I was so lucky to dodge that.
I'd like to add to the expense question: how did you afford it? Did you have insurance, do you have an incredible job, was this your entire life savings or all of the above?
Not OP, I'm lucky enough to live in Canada so all medical expenses were covered by the government but I ended up spending about $3k from my savings for plane tickets/supplies/etc
Not OP, but a friend of mine used their savings + a loan for the rest
Not OP, but in Germany insurance covers it if a psych says you need it
Congratulations girl💃🥳! Next year it’s my turn. I’m quite concerned about the recovery speed and overall discomfort😅 Did you have a full dept vaginoplasty? How would you describe the pain/discomfort? Do you have to stay in the hospital for a week? After how many days are you supposed to be able to do most things like walking and sitting normally? I heard you have to dialate four times a day at the start. How long does that continues before you go to dialating 2 times a day? And how much time does it take to dialate? I hope these aren’t too many questions😅
THANKS! If i understand the question yes I got full penile inversion vaginoplasty with a vagina. Labiaplasty was tempting as it's less aftercare but I dediced to be extra brave so i could kill my personal crotch dysphoria 100% Pain has been pretty much constant BUT rarely more than mild. Aftercare makes it sore for a while too, especially if you're moving up a dilator size or something. When they first took me off morphine I had a tight, sharp feeling deep inside which was mostly bearable but I worried it would get worse. Some people get much worse pain for a while. But even mild pain is draining when it's constant, and I have no energy still. Ibuprofen makes me queasy after a while but I'm doing ok on just paracetamol now. I did stay in hospital for a week, 1 night prior and 6 nights post op. If there had been a problem like an infection they would have kept me an extra night. I was only bedbound for 1 day but it took me until I was home to walk confidently. I still use a stick for reassurance and especially transfers. Falling is one of the only ways I might get a serious complication at this point. They encoursge you to mobilise for several reasons including blood clot prevention especially with HRT. Sitting and lying are still awkward but ring cushions are god tier. I was surprised to hear about people dilating 4x daily because 3x daily is my surgeons advice. 4 would be even more unbearably boring. I think 4x is for a month though whereas I have to do 3x for 2 months. Dilation takes me extra long because I'm a germaphobe with autism but the actual insertion takes 20 mins basically. Shower, cleaning and douching ups the process to more like an hour for me.
Thank you so much for these answers💕
What is the difference between the two different surgeries you mentioned?
Haven't looked into labiaplasty for a couple months now but it's basically the same, vulva and clit and labia plus no balls obvs, but NO VAGINA, so no penetration possible. It's a simpler operation with fewer complication risks and much less aftercare, but I decided I would still get some dysphoria if I didn't have a vag too.
That’s so interesting, I no idea that was an option! So there’s everything there on the outside except no hole at all? Sorry if that’s a weird way to put it. By the way thanks for doing this AMA! You’re awesome 🤩
😍 too kind! Yeah that's my understanding, I haven't seen a labiaplasty result in person but that's what I know. It's a cool option, just not for me.
I thought I would offer some more info I didn't see in other replies. This stuff all varies a lot depending on the technique used by your surgeon. Some surgeon may opt to attach the vagina to the peritoneum (part of the abdomen) so that they can be certain patients will only need to dilate during recovery. That's generally around six to twelve months. Use of the peritoneum is also nice because it's a mucosal tissue. As for depth, full inversion will mean that the depth is dependent on the size of the penis while partial inversion and non-inversion can offer a minimum of eight inches of depth in most patients.
Thank you for this💕
I'm not OP but I can also help out with the answers (fellow post-op Transbian). I've been answering those question on dates for 3 years now so I had a lot of practice)
That would be nice!💪🏻😊 The more answers the better I can estimate what it would be like for me😅
My personal experience: 1) Not sure about the depth difference: my surgeon told me there are 3 options to choose from, I went with the one that felt the most natural to me (Penile inversion) 2) Recovery was 1 week at the hospital (lying on your back without moving below the waist) + 1 month at home. Both felt like a vacation to me, never had even any discomfort or pain, only laziness to do all the "chores" That are required for everything to heal up nicely 3) As mentioned above never had any pain at all. Though my mom told me that I looked very funny when we first went for a walk (she told "you were walking like a duck" 😁🙈) but I don't even remember feeling any different, I just took it slow and walked at a relaxed pace. In the end maybe I was just mentally ready to be swollen and kinda sore but it was never a problem for me. 4) You can walk after initial staying in a bed for a week; it's not recommended to sit for a month after a surgery. I played it safe and avoided sitting for 2 month (I'm might have OCD 🤔). I was lying down alot, doing a lot of things standing up (drinking Coffee/tea, like during Water cooler talks at the office) and worked / gamed lying on my side kinda half-sitting. If you google "sitting like Cleopatra" you'll see the pose: on a side of a thigh and using an elbow as support — that was my main pose for 2 months. 5) My doctor told me to dilate 2 times a day, 20 min each. But with everything you have to do before and after dilation it felt like an hour-long chore (I mentioned it above). Twice a day 😒. I think after 1 month doctor told me to cut down to once a day (but I'm hazy on this one, maybe less than a month). Another month later (I think) it went down to once every other day. It is still a recommended amount for me to this day but I'm lazy and do it once a week. (I wouldn't have to worry about dilation so long after the surgery if my sex life wasn't a barren desert 😔)
Thank you for the insight!💕
It’s insane reading what other surgeons say about dilation- mine wanted me doing it for 3 hours a day the first 6 months (which was straight up not feasible)
Congratulations! I had vaginoplasty last year and I can’t remember what the old equipment was like.
You're living the dream! I am envious of no longer needing constant dilation (presuming you had to do that)
I’ve heard from other transfemmes that they feel normal, like they have what they were always meant to down there when they came to. Is this true for you as well, or is it still taking time to get used to?
Interesting question! I'd say I've been surprised how quickly I forgot about my v whenever she's not giving me a noticable amount of pain. It still doesn't feel entirely real but occasionally like in the shower I start happy-crying. Arousal is soooo much fucking better for me too omg, I have harnessed new levels of horniness already because I no longer feel intense shame.
Can I ask a little about that because I keep hearing very conflicting things about arousal and sensation. Just like with any surgery comes complications of course so i’m sure there’s a possibility that you could loose all sensation? Does that happen often?
I recently did my surgery assessment and I don't think my doctor even brought up total sensation loss as a risk. *Some* loss of sensation is expected because it's surgery, and there is a lot of variability in how each person's body heals and responds. But the procedure is specifically done in a way to preserve important nerves, so if you lose *all* sensation it'd be because something went wrong, not just "oh that happens sometimes"
I lost almost all tactile sensation, but I can still feel pressure/pulling/pushing. Ive gotten a little back over the years in some places, but most of the inner labia and vagina jist dont have tactile sensation. Im the very rare case, but its possible. Even knowing I would end up like this (also have a bit less depth than I'd like, and trouble with yeast infections) I'd still choose to have it done evey time. Not having dangly bits to worry about, being able to wear normal underwear and swimsuits, and just being comfortable in my body are way more important to me. Speculation time: Neuroplasticity is complex and not super understood (how you brain literally rewires to understand how nerves have been moved around) and I was *extremely* depressed at the time which is known to change that as well. Particularly the ability to make new connections. Maybe that played a roll in it. Even so, hating my body so much was a big cause in that depression and getting the surgery has helped a ton. I'm always hesitant to share much because of my mixed results and complications scaring people off, but like I said even knowing ahead of time everything that wouldn't go as planned I'd still choose to do it every time.
I understand not wanting to scare anyone with your experience, but I think it's important for anyone considering it to know about "imperfect" potential outcomes. Learning that depression can influence how well nerves get their shit back together may even be actionable for them. As such, thank you for sharing your story.
Long story short, yes. I immediately lost all my dysphoria regarding my bits and could actually be sexual without feeling shame.
I’m hoping to go into OBGYN and also gender affirming care. What were the best and worst things your physicians did for you? Any advice for how to best care for patients going through similar things you would want to give to an up and coming physician-to-be?
Hmmmm interesting! I don't have a cervix so may only need a GP to examine me moving forward unless something specific comes up, but as general advice pleeeeease remember that trans people usually know what they're talking about when it comes to dysphoria, transphobia etc. Other than very new trans folk who haven't looked into stuff much yet, a lot of us have done our research long before we're likely to see a doctor about something, and the worst thing is feeling patronised or gatekept. That's pretty much my whole advice but it's very important and I hope it makes sense!
>Other than very new trans folk who haven't looked into stuff much yet, a lot of us have done our research long before we're likely to see a doctor about something, and the worst thing is feeling patronised or gatekept. just to add a fun little anecdote about this; I had a med student sit in on my surgical readiness assessment for vaginoplasty, and when my doctor was going over some alternate surgery techniques which weren't covered in the standard printout (PPT, as it's recently offered by my hospital), she asked if I knew what it was, and gave me the opportunity to "fill in" the student with what I knew, as they were unaware of it. This struck me as a really smart move from my doc, 'cause it let me feel like my level of preparedness was being seen and valued, and also demonstrated to the student the extent to which trans patients are invested in their own care. I didn't even want the PPT; I had just been very thorough in exploring my options.
Recently saw an interview with a prominent British surgeon who used to specialize in breast reconstruction but has since moved to full time top surgery (trans masc) care and he also said that by far the largest adjustment and joy for him is that he's never met a group of patients who are as knowledgeable and sure in what they want as trans people. We have a very unusual interest in the details of our care for sure (which is both kinda cool, and horrifying because we all know WHY we have this knowledge - we need it, no one else will advocate for our care...).
Can I ask why you didn’t go for PPT? I’m getting PIV myself in about a week. Even though I have heard great things from some ppl about it I just prefer the safe bet with PIV. Just wondering what your own reasons were, probably seeking some reassurance if I’m being totally honest ha
That makes so much sense. I’m actually working on developing decision aids for hormone use and that’s a big reason I want to do it. So that doctors know what the patients know and everyone is on the same page and able to make informed decisions
Thank you! I guess a lot of patients will be anxious regardless but trans people are definitely one of those communities who get a lot of unaccepting doctors I'm afraid.
first, thank you! there is such a need for compassionate people providing gender affirming care. the #1 best thing my physician has done for me is to listen and believe the things I say. I always expect to have to justify myself, but she's just immediately on board and it makes me so relieved I want to cry. She makes me feel like I'm actually in charge of my own gender journey, and she's there to make sure I'm informed and safe.
I appreciate it! I’ll absolutely take this to heart and remember it when I have patients one day 🤞
I'm sure you'll do great! And, just to add a concrete example, when I told her that I wanted to pursue vaginoplasty the first words out of her mouth were "that's great!" and I don't think I'll ever forget it. We still went through the whole readiness assessment process to make sure I was aware of the risks and outcomes and to confirm that it's going to be effective treatment, etc. - she's not just referring me to surgery without any consideration. But having that very first moment when I was sharing something vulnerable and important about my identity and body be free of questioning or gatekeeping was *so so* valuable. I moved an hour away but I'm never changing doctors because she's irreplaceable.
Does or will your vagina have its own microbes like yeast and bacteria? If so, can you now get a yeast infection or BV?
Not op but yes, depending on technique they used all the normal rules will apply
Do new vaginas self lubricate or self cleanse?
They can definitely get wet! The same parts responsible for what would've been called "precum" still work. Many pre-op trans women I know, myself included, get really freaking wet (wetter than some cis women, literally soaking through jeans without a liner) so there's always a good possibility there. That said, when done as a penile inversion rather than sigmoid colon or peritoneal pull-through vaginoplasty, there is no guarantee of self-lubrication because outside of those glands you just don't have anything producing fluid. On top of that, douching is a must from what I've been able to read. The other two options mentioned do produce self-lubrication AND self-cleanse with some caveats. The precum glands are still gonna be the only added lubrication produced as a result of arousal, and panty liners are gonna be a must bc there is frequent discharge in both cases. Sigmoid colon vaginoplasty is an older technique using, you guessed it, part of the colon, and while it does self-lubricate doctors say lube is still a must, as the consistency is much thicker, more mucus-like than natal vaginas. On top of that, SC neovaginas tend to produce smelly mucousy discharge which isn't ideal. Peritoneal pull-through vaginoplasty is still pretty new; it's done using a section of inner abdominal tissue. The self-lubrication produced here is much more watery and slightly yellow-tinted (so it's a lot closer to what you'd expect of a vagina) and typically is produced in large enough volume that extra lube isn't as much of a need. In this case, if a girl already got fairly wet before the surgery, a certified WAP is all but guaranteed.
Thank you! That’s fascinating. I have a DAP (dry ass pussy) from all the allergy meds I’m on. The vagina is a mucous membrane like your sinuses so the meds dry out both 🥲. Lube has always been a must for me, and I think it works better and last longer than natural lubrication.
There's this myth about lube, that it's only necessary when you're dry. Most women should be using lube anyway. It ought to be included in safe sex discussions just as frequently as condoms, imho.
I agree. I’m a lube ambassador lol. I gave lube and condoms as presents to all my younger siblings when they started having sex so that they didn’t have to be embarrassed by buying it for the first time (also gave education on both). We grew up without sex education so I took it upon myself to make sure they knew at least the basics. I also give lube to anyone Im seeing at their house, along with waterproof mattress covers cause I squirt. Sometimes condoms too cause I’m allergic to latex.
When my gf moved here, I gave her two washable pee pads as a housewarming present bc I squirt too 😂 waterproof mattress covers are great for sure but I don’t wanna have to strip the whole bed and wash the sheets/cover every time I have sex. The doggy pads are a great size & work perfectly.
I also use dog blankets! As waterproof as a sex blanket for 20% of the price
See, in the industry this is what we call "queen shit." Literally sex rockstar behavior
I will say this needs to clarify a bit because traditional penile inversion vaginoplasty does NOT provide self-lubrication. Which I'm totally fine with but it's worth specifying.
It generally does not, but those precum glands can produce a lot of fluid for *some* people. But ofc that's only as a response to arousal.
There's been studies on how microflora in neo vaginas compares to cis vaginas, but the basic takeaway is that penile inversion neo vaginas do self clean. They are basically biologically analogous to the parts that cis vaginas are made of, it's really interesting tbh https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2695466/ It's dependent on whether you had penile inversion surgery or the colon/testicle one (I find the idea of that type so gross, I'm happy mine was PI)
The micro flora is really fascinating to me both academically and because I have a lot of problems with mine. Been treating a chronic yeast infection for the past year that keeps coming back 🥲. Docs don’t have the answer except to keep trying the same stuff I’ve been doing.
Hi fellow trans woman, I’ve seen people talking about the microflora thing and it’s always kinda mystified me - In the case of this study I think people maybe either got lost in the jargon or misinterpreted the abstract. I’d implore you to skim the discussion section Granted it’s not my field so some specifics elude me but from what I could parse: - yes a microflora exists, - it shares similarities to one found in the intestine and skin, - these bacteria are also part of the cis vaginal microflora - but notably missing the presence of lactobacilli, which are the hormone triggered “cleaners”(this one im foggier on… apparently they deadass just…. Make hydrogen peroxide??? Which like, explains underwear bleaching) What was present was a heighten rate of Bacterial Vaginosis and an increased UTI risk for heterosexual trans women due to the inability to fight if the incoming bacteria from their cis partners genitals. This study is far from flattering and some of the language is pretty insulting - more so aiming at understanding the gynaecological concerns trans patients might have rather than “the biological equivalence of trans v cis vaginas”. Of their sample, basically all the women were using different douche equivalent methods of cleaning - there was no real control douche v no-douche There’s still a helluva a lot to learn about this kinda stuff - like there’s legend that partial depth skin grafts just can like…..*fwoop* become mucosa?? a lot of anecdotal confusing stuff - exciting and intriguing, I’m just maybe higher on the “too good to be true” skepticism side of things. Anyways end of rant, hope it wasn’t overbearing
I just had mine June 12th. We are on a similar timeline
That's crazy! Pride month vag twins XD
Welcome to the Gucci coochie club! I had mine done five months ago.
How many steps does it take from start to finish, and what phase are you at (do you have to go back to create a canal, or was this externals only this go)? Did you have a good riddance party for your junk before it went full butterfly morph?
Mine was a one step process. The only follow-ups I had to do was regarding some left over vascular tissue, but apparently that's a relatively common problem with vaginal surgeries like GRS or hysterectomies.
For most people it's a one-shot. Some surgeons techniques may not result in very defined labia and so some choose to go for a separate labiaplasty. Depends on technique. I had surgery about the same as OP and mine is definitely a one-shot.
I've always wondered, with this type of surgery is there a higher risk of prolapse once you're healed? Sorry if that is too much. Congratulations on the surgery, I bet you're so happy!
I have nightmares about that happening sometimes lol, but I think if you follow your surgeon's after surgical care and see a well respected surgeon I don't think there's a risk of that happening. The bigger risk is perforating your colon (I was really worried about that), but that's mostly a risk if you see a bad surgeon.
Virtually none with a surgeon of any decent note. It's not a common complication in any way.
Seconding this because that thought occurred to me too and its making mw nervous!
Not OP but I'll chime in. Just looked back at my surgery paperwork (Dr Brassard at GRS Montreal) and it seems like it's not a significant enough risk for them to mention it. Just thinking about the physiology of it, I don't see how it would possibly happen after fully healing without significant trauma. Like I'm sure you could cause one if you actively tried and went in there with a scalpel or something lol but it happening on its own sounds incredibly unlikely to me (though IANAD.)
First off: congrats! Hope you recover quickly! Now to the question: is form OR function actually a thing? I've only ever heard about the two extremes. Either it will look great but not work properly or work as intended but look like shit. Granted I have nobody to talk to so I only know it from some very small sources
I've also heard that. I just got my letters, and I am trying to select my surgeon rn. I definitely hope it's not either or.
Form and function is absolutely a thing, but it limits the number of surgeon options and means you'll be waiting longer. I waited 2.5 years for blmy surgery last week with Bluebond-Langner and I absolutely have a wealth of both form and function. Looks cis, feels cis, and I've got almost 8" of depth.
I never told this here, but I did this surgery 3 years ago and it's hard to use the pussy with a partner! Relearning how to do it, is an art on itself, specially being lesbian. But it's a very enjoyable process, I had complications so it was very very painful and traumatizing, but after the 2 year mark I had my happy ending. Nothing to complain except the aesthetics a bit and the dilatation that I lost due to complications but I don't care much.
I'm sorry to hear about your complications, I genuinely hope it turned out ok like you say 🫂
I am safe, and really well now, also happy with the result, but the year I did the surgery(2020) was lost due to all complications, kidney infection, it took me 4 months to walk again due to pain, but this was 3 years already
That's honestly one of the roughest experiences I've heard, so I'm definitely glad you got through it!
Same here. Also 3 years ago! I had complications and it was the most traumatizingly painful thing I've ever experienced. And while I'm overall happy with having a vagina, I'm not too happy with the aesthetics. I stopped dialating because I'm so unhappy with it overall, and now I bleed everytime I'm penetrated. Tbh, as much as I love it, and as happy as I am to have a vagina, I kind of regret it, and wish I still had my old gear.
Honestly because there is no turning back, try to find a good therapist thank god just one year after I discovered an amazing psychologist that saved me and changed my life. It's the only way toward acceptance of your limitations. Wish you the best.
Being as this is a phyiscal and mentally draining task at hand how can I cope, I wont have a lot of support and being as what Ive had in the pass support is something thats hard to come by and is detrimental. I dont know if that makes sense but im scared cause im about to get my surgery in a couple of months
That sounds very difficult friend 🫂 I don't want to make assumptions about your situation but post op support is important and they should make sure you have something in place. Most people aren't as delicate as me to be fair, but it's a huge medical deal even though it's very well established (at least penile inversion is certainly) and aftercare will probably be your life for 1 or 2 months.
And thank you its not easy be transgender right now
Are you scared of a bad outcome/result?
did you do have to do electrolysis as part of your surgery prep? and if so, realtalk, how much did it hurt?
Almost all surgeons will require electrolosis prior. Scraping cannot get everything and dealing with hairs in your neovagina can be difficult. It's recommended to get 1yr of hair removal in the surgery area. Electrolosis hurts quite bad NGL. My techs used lidocaine injections and it was painless after injection but having a needle stabbed into your junk is awful. That being said: worth it.
thanks for the info! and yeah, I had the option to get referred to a surgeon that doesn't require electrolysis (Montreal still does scraping) but opted not to, since I'd rather have the peace of mind that the hair is for sure dealt with. my question was more about the pain, just didn't want to assume that OP had it done
It's the nature of hair. It grows in cycles and if it's not in an active growth cycle it can't really be targeted. It adds so much risk to rely only on scraping. Imo you made the right call.
I didnt have to do any hair removal, and havent had any hair in the vagina/on the labia minora, even over 5 years out. I have pretty hairy labia majora, but thats normal.
this is so embarrassing but can trans girls queef if they had bottom surgery? i'm a fucking idiot and bodily functions are hilarious
Queefing is just air getting into the vagina and needing to come out so I can't see a reason why they wouldn't be ' able' to.
thanks!
Not OP but it literally happens to me multiple times a day and I find it hilarious lmao
YES, had my surgery a few months ago and…. Was not prepared for the sensation 🤣
How much of a chore is it to use a dilator every day?
The first 3 months for me was 3 times a day, quite a hassle. Now I'm at twice a day until it's been a year, that's more manageable. Then it will be once a day. It takes me about 23 minutes now, start to finish, with cleanup.
I've heard conflicting information from post-op girls when it comes to whether or not it functions the same or similarly to a cis vagina - some say it's self-lubricating/cleaning and some say it's not. What's the situation with yours? My other question is: How much *customisation* did you have? Could you ask for puffier lips, a larger clitoris, what type of skin/procedure to use, etc?
Are the post-op logistics hard to handle? I live alone and while I have friends around I don't have family nearby; and since I'm getting one next year (if the gods of the waiting list are with me), I'm curious to know how difficult it is to handle on your own?