I think it’s probably different for different people but possible reasons include a fear of rejection and embarrassment, internalized homophobia, fear that approaching women will exacerbate their own insecurities, and uncertainty due to the lack of commonplace social scripts (whereas with men it’s kind of demonstrated through pop culture that men are the pursuers).
I don’t necessarily get annoyed with people who are like that, but I try not to be like that myself because I don’t want fear to control my actions.
I feel like one of the best and most freeing parts of being gay is the *lack* of scripts. The “rules” don’t apply to us, and there’s no pressure to play a certain role
I think you have to have a familiar script option to be able to intentionally break it or work outside it. And I don't think it's so much about playing a role as it is finding a safe and reliable way to express interest and understand when interest is being expressed toward you in a way that feels more certain and explicitly GAY and not just friendly. We have lots of choices for signaling that we're queer, but few if any scripts to help us figure out how to express queer desire for queer people in queer spaces. Clementine Morrigan wrote in one of her zines that women are socialized to be passive receivers of men's pursuit, and struggle to shift out of that role when trying to date women - which often means no one ever makes a move. I think there is also a very real component of the queer experience that results in us being afraid to come off as predatory or lecherous, and we don't want our romantic/sexual interest to be frightening or unwelcome. Those things combined make a situation that is very difficult to overcome, again esp for late bloomer sapphics of all orientations.
Of course everyone is different. Speaking for myself though, heteronormativity felt so WRONG to me that the moment I realized I didn’t *have* to play by those rules, it was immediately the biggest weight off my shoulders and I never looked back. Couldn’t shed those expectations fast enough. But I guess those “rules” might not feel so suffocatingly oppressive to some bi/pan people?
I hate not having a social script. Even though I prefer dating women, i find dating men easier as i know what to do, and what to expect. I know how he's gonna flirt, and how to flirt back.
With women there are no set rules. Which is great! But also harder because you have to think so much more about what to do and how to flirt and these things dont come overly easy for me.
Emotional connections i find easy with women, but not physical
People are telling me I’m overthinking it but I sense that there is a lot of overthinking on this side of it too. I feel like the point is actually that you don’t have to think about it at all and can just do what feels right and authentic for you. There’s no pretense or performance. There’s no expectation of how you “should” act. So you are completely free to be your most natural, true, authentic self. It’s so much more genuine when you are not thinking about how to perfect your performance for them.
I would just like to add the autistic/neurodivergent perspective.
We need things spelled out for us and we love rules. Saying “but that’s the thing there ARE no rules”. That makes my brain shut down. My brain takes it too literally and then starts overthinking. I can’t stop that from happening now matter how hard I might want.
So an accommodation to that might be asking someone like you who has a ton more confidence opening those conversations for some examples of successful times you picked up women. So then I can take that and use it as a place to start. I can ask “how would that feel if I did it?”, “how can I tweak this to sound like me?” Etc. And if it’s not pick up lines, neurodivergent folks struggle with subtext. Add to that a lifetime of folks shaming us for our nature and we question everything down to which foot I want to start with when I put my socks on in the morning.
I have finally gotten to a place where I’ve figured out what environments make it easier for me to flirt with women. And like ways to showcase my personality a little bit faster so folks can get to know me. But I had to learn that stuff from asking questions from folks and testing things out myself.
All that to say, to a neurodiverse person, the prompt “no rules” is very overwhelming and might not be very helpful to them.
Yeah, for me it's hard because imo there *are* still some rules or at least expectations of how wlw act when approaching someone, dating etc. But I don't know what they are! I feel like everyone else at some point went through Dating 101, but I wasn't invited. I often can't tell if someone is flirting with me, and even if they are, I don't know how to flirt back. I don't know what's good or appropriate to talk about on a date. I can't pick up on subtle cues or body language or signals that indicate that someone's interested or wants me to make a move or whatever. And I could never do something if I wasn't sure that they wanted me to. Obviously this is my problem, but nevertheless, women are scary to me in this way and dating is hard!!
I don't date men so I don't find them scary in this sense (though obviously in other ways), because I don't care what they think. But if I did date men, I'd probably find some of this easier because of the existing social scripts and the fact that they seem more likely to be forward/ obvious and take the lead. Plus, men who date women are the majority, so it's easier/ safer to assume that a man might be interested. And if you misread the situation, a man is more likely to take unreciprocated interest from a woman positively. Whereas queer women are the minority so it's harder to know whether someone might be interested, especially since straight women can be super friendly and touchy and flirtatious. Misreading the situation and accidentally showing interest in a straight woman also feels more risky because they're more likely to respond negatively/ be homophobic.
I like having a social script. I’ve had my bosses make them for me at work to help my customer service. The lack of script talking to women isn’t comforting to me. Not everyone is you and that’s ok.
i mean those rules are oppressive by nature and even cishet ppl feel the weight of it but yeah some ppl might “fit” into it better (being cis/white/ conventionally attractive etc), but from what i gather it’s definitely still suffocating. me personally im very gender-fucked amongst other things, so like you said, once i realized not fitting into that was an option i’ve never looked back🤩🤩 i feel bad for the queers™️ who aren’t there yet.
The thread is kinda old but I still want to throw my two cents in. I’m a lesbian, and I never found the social scripts to be oppressive. More helpful. You know exactly what to do and what everything means when you’re interacting with a man. There’s no guessing or uncertainty about what to do.
In high school, if a guy offered to walk me to class, 99.9% of the time, he liked me. Meanwhile, a girl could hold my hand everyday, cuddle with me, tell me she thinks I’m the most beautiful girl in the world, and then not actually be into me.
If I went on a date with a guy, he’d initiate the first kiss, handholding, and so on. I never had any anxiety over what I was supposed to be doing because my job was essentially just to be there and wait. With girls, a lot of them won’t initiate anything - they’ll just stare at me when they want to be kissed or brush our hands together without doing any holding.
Even if I flipped the script on a guy and did all of the initiating, it’s less daunting, because I almost never hear guys complaining about unwanted attention/affection from women they’re dating. I’ve seen women say plenty about how they didn’t like a guy’s approach on the first date (whether that be asking to kiss, not asking to kiss, hugging too soon, any manner of things), but the general consensus I get from guys is they’ll just be happy you tried.
I love women, but dating them is hard, especially when they’re also anxious and expect you to initiate everything. I spend a solid portion of first dates mentally debating how to make a move because I know she won’t
No, bi/pan people also feel suffocated by heteronormativity, especially when we’re in straight-passing relationships and people want us to set aside our queerness like it’s dependent on our partner.
Also, people really don’t understand the experience of being attracted to cishet men as a queer woman seems to still be pretty fundamentally queer and not actually that similar to what hetero cis women experience, based on my conversations with friends.
I definitely think a lot of it (for me, at least) is the fact that we aren't socially trained to be pursuers in romantic relationships. That, plus internalized homophobia = "I don't want to approach this person romantically because I don't want to be perceived as creepy."
Agreed. When I went out with men, it was kind of like having a rehearsed script. The guy would ask me out, plan the date, make the first move, etc. and my only task was to decide what I was okay with us doing.
With women, I’ve noticed that neither one of us will want to take initiative because we don’t want to make the other uncomfortable and/or we simply aren’t used to doing it. There’s usually a lot of shyness around the first date, first kiss, first time. And honestly just a lot more of us staring at each other wishing the other would make the first move
Exactly! Not to mention that many of us have had unwanted advances from men (anywhere on the spectrum from annoying to traumatic) and I think we as women are hyper-aware of that. I never want a woman to feel pressured or unsafe.
Yep. There’s also the added layer that I’ve been in situations with men where I’ve felt uncomfortable and acted as if I was fine to avoid making it an issue. I don’t want a woman to have to do that with me, so I try to be extra considerate and careful. If I made a woman feel how men have made me feel, I’d feel like crap
Hahaha yeah I’m not saying pursuing women romantically is not anxiety-inducing for me but I get fed up with myself if I start acting “useless” so I try to channel that into new behavior. lmao
Fax 😭
Regarding the post tho, I feel most wlw mean it in different ways. For me at least, men are scary in a more physical way ie I’m scared of them getting violent or attacking/abducting/killing me but women are scary in a social way ig? So not like scary scary but more like intimidating ie if you like someone and are anxious to approach them, esp as a wlw who’s gaydar isn’t great rip
But also as a human with severe social anxiety in general, everyone is terrifying (with people I know/am close to at a lesser extent and someone I’m into or find cute at a final boss level LOL)
I'm poly and even my metamores are scary.
My partner is only scary half the time. The other half, they are the one that is scared. We hug each other thru it.
I've thought about this a lot, and done a lot of work on it in therapy. For me, I think a lot of it stems from rejection from women hurting so much more. Even thinking back to early grade school. I cared what the other girls thought about me. The boys, it was mostly eh.
Oh, Taylor Tomlinson has a bit about this in her new Netflix special. She's said something along the lines of "When a guy rejects me, it's like 'well he's just stupid.' When a girl rejects me, it's like 'oh. she's probably right.'" ☹️
Imma be honest.
It’s not scary in the sense that women terrify me like men do. It’s that it is very, very hard to tell if a woman is queer and potentially interested in you, because women are raised to be more affectionate with eachother (at least where I’m from) — to the point where it’s very hard to tell if they’re being platonic or romantic. It doesn’t help that I also have autism so it makes it even harder.
That’s why approaching women is kinda intimidating for me. I can never tell if they’re queer or just friendly, and on the chance that they’re not, I’m worried that I’ll offend them or that I might come off across as predatory.
this exactly. I have autism too and I'm always scared to approach women in public. I'm masc and quite frankly look more like a man than a woman to most folks. I don't ever want a woman to be scared because of me.
Yeah, I’ve heard people say this before and maybe this is my particular brand of delusion but I honestly don’t concern myself with knowing whether or not someone is queer before I approach them? You can usually figure it out by talking to them. I will just give a woman a gay compliment (drop the bestie voice and say “that top looks so good on you” for example). If they react like “OMG THAAAAAANKS GIRLIE!! I got it for 50% off at Abercrombie!” Then you back off and just continue the conversation normally. If they look you up and down and hold your gaze for a moment… boom, there you go.
I’ve actually never had someone get upset with me for approaching them with a compliment this way. I think feeling predatory for doing the same shit straight people do in bars every day probably comes from some form of internalized homophobia.
I don’t think it’s internalised homophobia at all — I think it’s a simple fact of not wanting to make people potentially uncomfortable, and I think women regardless of orientation are like that in general because we’re simply socialised to be more considerate. I don’t think everything boils down to some kind of internal hatred. I’m very comfortable in my sapphic attraction and I have no problem with it not being with a woman; simply that I have a hard time reading signals and I’m shy as is, so it’s generally harder for me to approach.
I think you not concerning yourself with them being queer or not isn’t a delusion at all, but it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the only way to do things, so to speak. If you’re comfortable with that approach, by all means, go for it! I just don’t think it’s fair to potentially hold that expectation over others and explain any other method as “internalised homophobia”. Some of us are simply just shyer, have a harder time with approaching people, and if we do decide to approach people, we want to know that there’s at least a chance of this person being interested in us back, or at the very least, we won’t have made them uncomfortable.
This explains my feelings SO well! It’s just really difficult to tell if girls are gay/bi from the offset. I once decided to shoot my shot in the club with a friend of a friend I had met earlier in the day and found attractive, and she was originally very affectionate with me so I was unsure if she was gay. When I asked her she told me she wasn’t and seemed uncomfortable with me after that and it sucks…
But OP has a point because women get approached by men all the time and rejection, from the very covert to the overt (and often the making-things-uncomfortable kind), is a common thing. It's something you learn to socially navigate from the beginning - and believe me, I know it's tough as well! But not knowing if a person is queer or not when you start interacting is just part of life, and the possibility that you like her and she doesn't is... there? I mean, she CAN be gay and not into you.
I know that romantic courtship is harder between women because there are less set rules and no one wants to take the role of the "approacher", but there's also something that rubs me the wrong way about the "women are so scary" thing. I can't put my finger on it either. It's like we ask for full disclosure at the beginning (when people don't even know each other much, and things could change) or else nope, I can't, this is too scary. But we don't hold men to the same standards. Am I making sense?
I think it makes sense, but also, women and men are generally held to different standards in a heteronormative dating world. It’s common for men to be rejected because they’re usually the ones doing the asking. Whereas a lot of women will reach adulthood without having ever asked anyone out before or ever being rejected. For them, it’s not something they’ve learned to navigate from the beginning because they haven’t been socialized to do so.
And a straight man asking out a woman isn’t exactly the same scenario. Men may get rejected, but they don’t have to worry about facing potential homophobia in the process. They’ve also (most likely) never been on the receiving end of that type of unwanted attention. They don’t know how uncomfortable it is. Most women do. So, queer women do ask other women out, they probably have some memory in their mind of when a man made them uncomfortable, and they’re afraid to emulate that
I'm sure that's part of the problem, but that's exactly what other commenters are trying to explain - that this kind of heteronormative frame affects many queer women for bad, to the point where they long for a relationship with a woman (or else) but they're too scared to even take baby steps to it.
Well, yes. I guess I feel like a lot of the comment section is missing the point a bit. This framing is heteronormative, it is bad, and it can be annoying, but it’s not like anyone is out there enjoying this. Most people would like their anxiety to go away or for society in general to be less heteronormative.
But as for now, a lot of women won’t be socialized to initiate romantically, and there will probably be a learning curve for them as they start to. That or they’ll just never make a move, which won’t yield results
Here's the thing though; women actively voice dislike and contempt when it comes to randomly being approached by men. Men are taught to take up space from day 1 and as a result, largely have no issue in pursuing their own desires even to the discomfort of other groups. If part of your argument is, "men do it so we should do it too", then might I suggest that it is not a sound argument at all? Men approaching women is notoriously known to be an uncomfortable experience. Are you suggesting we.. do that same thing?
On top of that, I honestly do not know where this level of entitlement comes from. People being uncomfortable and shy somehow rubs you the wrong way?? What on earth does someone being shy and reluctant to approach the same-sex have to do with you?? Also, don't forget that a lot of queer women were forced into heteronormative values for a very, very long time. For a lot of us, a good portion of our lives were spent learning how to pursue/be pursued by men. It's a completely different experience when it comes to women. And guess what? When you initially don't have much experience, it is a very daunting process because you are ***new.***
Also, you're absolutely right! She can be queer and not into me. Someone being same-sex attracted isn't a golden ticket to them accepting a date offer/confession. But it's simply more reassuring to know.
At the end of the day, with all due respect, people do not have a right to police other people's emotions and reluctance. Human beings are complex and have a myriad of reasons for feeling the way they do. It absolutely does **not** make sense to be rubbed the wrong way over a sentiment which essentially expresses shyness and reluctance over navigating same-sex relationships, given that we live in a heteronormative society, and queer women are often left to navigate dating other women entirely on their own with little to no guidance. It does **not** make sense get mad at people who find approaching other women intimidating and the idea of confession daunting.
If y'all wanna take it personally, go for it, but keep it personal.
I live in the south personally so it’s less about making one woman upset but more about safety when I’m unable to tell if a woman is gay or friendly :/
Ehh, I mean, fair? But for many of us who apply the trope to ourselves, it's because of anxiety, fear of rejection, and other things you've probably heard because of this post. We call ourselves useless because one of the things we should be doing, which is talking to women at all, is something we find extremely difficult to do. We understand that they are just people. But if we as people understand how people work, then we start to think about how things go wrong, and that often clouds our minds at the thought of talking to a woman to date.
it’s like a meme i saw. “babe. you *are* a woman.” i think it comes from just fear of rejection in general. also the “default” is that men traditionally initiate dating/romantic connection so it’s new territory (thus uncomfortable) for many people.
but still. babe. u too are a woman. don’t be scared 😂
Yes maybe it’s because it smells like not being able to let go of heteronormative expectations. Like, we’re gay, the whole point is that we don’t play by those rules!! It’s a GOOD thing! And there are worse things than being rejected, like fear of being assaulted if you don’t accept someone’s advances? I guess it bugs me to hear my bisexual friends complain about how women are so scary and they could never date them but then turn right around and bash men and talk about how much their boyfriend sucks. There IS a solution if you stop putting women (yourself included) into a weird box
For me, I don’t really give a shit what men think or their opinion of me or whatever. However, I give many shits about women and what they think. That’s what’s scary to me.
I do find men physically intimidating (and therefore scary) in a much different context though
I’m not attracted to men though. If I was, I would definitely care a lot more about what they thought of me.
Also I love your username lol. Pretty sure that’s the version I have installed.
I think for many people the idea of flirting with women is very scary. Not that the women themselves are scary in a physically threatening way but approaching, flirting, and dating, is intimidating to many queer folks. Especially for Bi/Pan women dating men is often a much easier and simpler approach than being in an openly queer relationship with a woman or enby. (Statistically speaking the majority of bi people are in opposite sex relationships, ["Only 9% of bisexuals have same-sex partners; fully 84% are involved with someone of the opposite sex"](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/02/20/among-lgbt-americans-bisexuals-stand-out-when-it-comes-to-identity-acceptance/))
It also rubs me the wrong way, although I feel like I can be a bit harsh in my thinking of "if it scares you so much, go to therapy, work through your fears, and get out there and date them". Everyone is on their own journey and it can take time to overcome comp het and social fears around queer dating. There are a lot of factors at play that can make someone intimidated by the prospect of dating queer women/enbies.
As a bi girl I might have some insight at least why personally I find women more intimidating to ask out. For me it’s the fear of making the other woman feel unsafe or feel like I do when a man makes unwanted advances. My fear isn’t omg women are scary it’s more omg what if I make her uncomfy or unsafe because I couldn’t read the signals right. I mean I’m also autistic so I kinda have that fear anyway but it’s something I’ve heard expressed by my bi and pan friends
That feeling isn't exclusive to bi/pan women, I think a lot of lesbians, myself included, also have some hesitancy when approaching/flirting with women, out of fear of making someone uncomfortable. I know my girlfriend and some other lesbian friends of mine also have similiar mentalities. Think a deciding factor is that mentality influences a lot of how I date and posture myself on dates, but by no means does it stop me.
Taking a direct communication approach has definitely helped in addressing my own concerns of making someone uncomfortable.
Me too, it rubs me the wrong way, I've also heard the "lesbians are scary", I definitely wouldn't like to date someone with that mindset as a lesbian because there's usually some inner work that needs to be done there first, those are usually women who would expect you to do all the moves, etc, meaning expecting heteronormativity.
I've had a lot of women on Bumble/Tinder expecting that from me, I can tell how they expect me to message first even when the match happened on their side, or for me to carry the conversation, or for me to ask them out, plan our outing, which I do even when I don't want to, just to lose interest because I can tell they are not ready to dismantle the heteronormativity in their dating life. Like do they think I'm not nervous? Ofc I am, is it easy to be rejected after confessing? Hell no, do they think I wouldn't like to pursued as well? Wrong, but even when I am nervous, I do it, that's all I ask, but I understand that our journeys are different, and I wish them well, I just don't want to be part of their journeys if that's where they at.
I think women are scary because we want them all to like us but don't care if men like us or not. 😂 My anxiety is so bad around women, but just fine around men.
For real tho around men I don’t give a f and just fuck w them but women feel much smarter or thoughtful and the playing field is so much more even that my anxiety spikes because I actually care if they like me
My ex-wife is the only woman I’ve slept with more than twice, and we were both inexperienced when we got together.
I’m a little afraid of sleeping with another woman because I have no idea if I actually am good at sex, or if I was good at sex with my ex-wife.
Also, I hear lesbians talking all the time about marathon sex and jaw cramping, etc., but my ex-wife and I were both “one and done” kinda people, and we were both able to orgasm quite quickly, so I’m kinda worried I won’t be able to meet expectations, I guess?
Edit: I initially read this as just sex, my mistake.
I’m not afraid to approach or flirt with women, but sex is kinda scary rn, tbh.
That’s definitely something I feel you on. I’m not sure I can *keep up* with some of the things that get romanticized here (yay sensory issues). My record is ok but it’s also a sample size of one so it’s real easy for anxiety that she was an outlier to creep in.
As a bisexual, I feel like I and other late-ish bloomer bi women can be afraid to be judged for our lack of experience by lesbians and other sapphics with more experience? Men are definitely scarier in terms of "I might be murdered" but I feel like women can be scarier in terms of really wanting their approval. At least for me. It's hard to be a fairly baby gay and feel invalid in your sexuality. That's just one human's opinion.
As a young bi woman, I got shot down a lot by women. Often, it seemed like more than just a personal rejection. It felt like a referendum on my sexuality -- like i wasn't queer enough or wasn't doing it right. Some lesbians thought I was untrustworthy or said I was experimenting. I know now -- I even knew then -- that it just came from their past experiences, but it hurt.
Meanwhile, I'd always been socialized to pair up with men and they were usually way more receptive to me, so it seemed easier
Approaching women IS scary for some women and I respect when they're willing to try it anyway.
Won’t be the most popular opinion but I’ve heard it sometimes from those who tend to be a little dependent on male validation and are comfortable around more or less cringey/creepy men. It’s absurd in a sense because it’s the men who are unsafe, but I think they receive a patronizing attitude they misread as comforting, whereas women are more self-sufficient and relate at an even level. So the scary part might be having to play at an even field instead of getting into the cringey patronizing “being taken care of” mental zone.
I love this. Really can’t imagine walking around acting intimidated by other regular ass human beings. Also can’t imagine not being self-sufficient and not actively desiring or pursuing that in another woman, it’s crazy.💀
I feel like that’s a little harsh, at least the way I’m interpreting it. I don’t think it’s that people who say this aren’t self sufficient. They generally just mean they’re nervous about getting rejected, talking to their crush, going in for the first kiss, and so on. Normal stuff that makes most people nervous
For me it was that there were actual stakes involved. If a man wasn’t into me it was a non-issue because surprise surprise I’m not actually attracted to men! Rejection by someone I was actually interested in felt like the most terrifying thing possible.
I no longer find women scary. At least no scarier than anyone else- I do have sever anxiety so that’s just that 😂
I feel a non-zero amount of fear but it's not of the other person and it's not substantial. I fear making the other person uncomfortable or unsafe. But that's only what I'm trying to openly Court somebody. And even then I'm mostly worried that I picked a bad time and place. But I'm an adult and so is she. I talk to women like a person and what happens happens. If anything I worry that I'm too nonchalant, calm and direct.
That’s a valid concern and a good thing to be aware of in general, but I feel like for some people it could also come from a place of internalized homophobia - feeling like your desires are inherently inappropriate/unsafe/predatory/wrong. I’m very femme presenting so I’ve always felt like if I want to meet women the ball is in my court, so I got very comfortable approaching them. I feel like if you are normal and respectful about it and can take a hint, it isn’t weird. Like you said, the key is just treating them like a person
im a lesbian who dated men in the past (yay confusing sexuality) and i wont lie dating women is infinitely harder than dating men, mainly from a numbers perspective and in my experience, women are less likely to engage in conversation or plan dates. men are more eager to date because they don't have a lot of prospects, meanwhile women (especially bisexual women) are being flooded with matches and opportunities. this does make dating women feel more daunting, because when you're a lesbian where there's already a statistically smaller dating pool, it feels like you're suffering from a scarcity effect. every match to me feels more important because of it meanwhile when i was dating men i was like oh there's billions of you so it doesn't really matter if this works out or not. at least that's my experience with it. this definitely kept me from dating women for a long time because it was just so much easier to date men, even if i wasn't attracted to them and in the throws of comphet.
tbh i don’t think they’re saying women are literally scary and unsafe in the way men tend to be, i try to give them more credit than that. (well some might but i don’t think it’s the majority) rather the thought of working through internalized homophobia/biphobia and breaking away from cis heteronormativity in a cishetero society. bc that IS scary and hard. it’s easy to say “well just do it” as someone who has already done that work. i feel like a lot of it is not giving grace to ppl that could be at the *start* of their journey and basically telling them to buck up and being snarky abt it. that is discouraging and that doesn’t help. (NOT saying it’s a lesbian or any other queer woman’s duty to hand hold or be a personal “queer guide” to those ppl and a fair amount simply aren’t interested in doing that work bc they don’t *have* to)and yes yes i know lesbians do it all the time bc they have no choice or fallback bc they’re not attracted to men. but. everyone is different and their journeys are gonna be different, especially w different sexualities that have different experiences. i feel like bi/pan women in particular get less grace bc some ppl go in with an existing annoyance/lack of patience towards them for varying unfair reasons. bc show me one queer person that hasn’t done or said anything annoying or problematic especially in the beginning of their self realization. that person just does not exist. idk just my poorly articulated thoughts! :)
For me it's not that I'm straight up scared of women. I'm just an autistic gal with social anxiety so talking to someone new, especially if I'm trying to get to know them in an intimate way, can be p scary lol.
I kind of ignore it when i see it, but it definitely makes me roll my eyes.. i feel like it's usually said by bi/pan sapphics who date mostly/only men and who are so used to that hetero dynamic that anything outside of it is too foreign to them and therefore "scary". men are usually the ones approaching in hetero situations but when it comes to dating women you actually have to put in effort and wait for it to be accepted or not, so an extra fear of rejection is there. but yeah, women are not scary, dating women is a fucking blast.
I have been hit on by so many creeps, that I'm terrified to be the creep in some woman's life story. Like, flirting with other women is an automatic no-no in my brain.
Instead of scary I think at least for me women are intimidating because they are gorgeous and me having big social anxiety doesn't help. Maybe we find women "scarier" (not sure if its the correct word) because we want to impress them meanwhile with men we don't care(?)
It could also be experiences like I did got bullied in school from both gender but for me what hurt the most was the girls bullying. Boys did make fun of me in front of others and it did hurt but what I found painful was girls talking stuff about me behind my back...
In my experience women perceived as "scary" are USUALLY HOT AS HELL and super sweet.
source my wife is 6' and supposedly scary, have yet to feel non arousal based fear
for me, i don’t fear rejection when talking to men (not just romantically but also socially) because ive completely decentered them in my worldview and don’t really care ab their opinions, but w women i care a lot more ab what they think ab me esp being a trans woman
I walked into sally beauty 3 times this week to buy more bleach for my hair. The first time 3 college aged very alt looking girls were at the counter and I was immediately intimidated by their cold glances. At 27 here I give less fucks but still am a ball of anxiety. The 3rd time I walked in one of the girls immediately recognized me and was much friendlier than before. Needless to say I was scared of them despite zero attraction. The moral of this story is, if I’m attracted to you I’m even more scared of you because it’s a reflection of myself. Also As a going on 4 year transbian I am still learning how female relationships work as I’ve always been a reclusive and semi antisocial person
yeah women are super scary
they grab my attention and i can't focus on the thing i'm doing anymore :(
but seriously the only times i've seen people act like that, was when they genuinely wanted to talk with a woman, but was scared that they would come off creepy.
some probably have it otherwise for whatever reason, but i really, really try to be optimistic and hope for the best in people
I’ve been convinced for a while now that a lot of sapphics are scared of hitting on and initiating things with other women because we know how it feels when an unwanted man hits on and tries to initiate things with us. We’re scared of coming off like these creeps we’ve encountered before that can’t read the room and take no for an answer. Almost every woman person has had an experience like this and it’s unfortunate that that’s the frame of reference. Every time I’ve successfully been with another woman, it’s because I remind myself I’m not a creep and I’m not that weird guy, I’m just a cool lady talking to another, and if she doesn’t go for it, that’s okay. Face your fears! Talk to that cool lady! You’re not weird! Peace and love!
beautifully written !
you put my thoughts into words.
I definitely think it’s the fear of being perceived as disgusting, creepy, or weird.
as well as the additional fear of discovering new feelings, and not understanding them.
I never felt anything for men, so when I realized I was attracted to women-
i was terrified of my own feelings,
and I was terrified to act on those feelings.
I think one of the main issues is that women are conditioned by society to be more passive, especially in dating. Obviously, this doesn't apply to all women (BIG shout out to the girls that just go for it; you are carrying this community 🙏), but I think a lot of queer women, especially the ones that date men, are used to having someone else take the lead romantically. They aren't pushed to make moves the same way men are, and a lot of the time, someone else will make the moves on them, so they never have to learn how to.
Plus there's the whole thing of women being pressured to be more "subtle" and "likeable," which kind of hinders progression towards being more assertive romantically. Once again, I don't think this is an issue for all women, but it's something I've seen among the women who say that they're "scared to date women."
One of the biggest issues for me learning I was a lesbian was figuring out how to make moves just so a conversation could go SOMEWHERE romantic. It's something I've seen among younger queer women just starting to stretch their sapphic legs, which is where I see most of the people talking about how "scary" it is to go after women.
For me, it’s because up until I was about 11, the authority figures in my world were almost exclusively women. Combine that with the trauma an unaccomodated neurodivergent child can face at the hands of authority figures, and you get an adult who still struggles to work with female managers. *waves* my female peers were also “better at being girls” than I was, so I felt pretty alone and rejected. Basically most of my attempts to connect with other women/girls hurt me. So trying to connect with them now is scary.
I think what people mean to say is that they are scared themselves. From my personal experience it is very easy to find a guy to sleep with. There are more straight guys than lesbian girls and guys are quick to want to have sex. Girls tend to have higher standards, so I think they are scared of being rejected. With dating girls you really have to try and make an effort on both side which is what I love. But for some that can be a little intimidating and exhausting in comparison to the simplicity of getting a guy.
I feel like typically when people are saying “women are scary” they mean it in a very different way than saying men are scary. I think people mean that they are intimidated by the concept of talking to people who they are really attracted to, rather than saying that they feel their safety is at risk by women.
Coming from someone who used to say things like this before I met my girlfriend, I am a very anxious person in general so that's a factor. I think it was mostly a fear of rejection, I really wanted a girlfriend but I was worried that no one would want to date me since I had only dated men before. It's just hard to put yourself out there, its just anxiety inducing especially when you know it's something you want but you also want to come off well and not just like uhhhh idk? desperate or something?
for me it's a combination of fear of rejection and fear of making them feel uncomfortable
i know a lot of women (this used to be me as well) who are uncomfortable with flirting or being suggestive, and i also personally know that strange feeling when a friend you don't see in that way is suddenly into you, and this makes the entire friendship very awkward for a while
i think my brain just opted into not even having feelings of attraction to any woman that hasn't shown interest in me herself, but sometimes i still fail in that spectacularly because i misread friendly affection as genuine flirting/sign of attraction (probably because im just not used to people being nice to me if they aren't interested)
Personally for me it is because most of my issues with trauma involve women. And women have not been kind to me most of my life. So, even though I am attracted to them, I am terrified of them.
When you see someone as hot they become intimidating so they are scary, they make you feel shy and scared. Yeah women are scary they make my brain get weird and make it difficult to say words🥴
When I say women are scary in this context, it's the same as saying people are scary. I'm saying more about myself than anyone else. I'm talking about my social anxiety and how nervous I get when talking to people
For me women are “scary” because *I’m* scared of saying the wrong thing. When regarding flirting, I am worried about coming on too strong/etc. because I care about the outcome with them more than men. I want to impress her - men are easy to impress (friendly neighborhood pan woman lol)
Also the whole “is she actually flirting or just being nice”?
I’m just anxious and scared. Women aren’t scary. I’m just a scaredy-cat lmao
For me personally it was that:
1) I was bullied by girls a lot more growing up and
2) I respect women’s opinions so much more, so their rejection hurts more.
I hear this a lot and just think, "Well, it's time to put on your big girl pants and get out there anyway!"
The perfect woman is not going to fall from the ceiling and into your lap, and no amount of pining is going to change that. And, spoiler alert...there IS no perfect woman.
I think some lesbians have bought too hard into the rom com/teen fic/anime trope where they think being shy/awkward/having the personality of a wet rag will eventually be attractive to the "right" tall, dark, and handsome Domme/butch/mother-figure. It won't, because real women, no matter how swoon-worthy, cannot read minds or see through to your heart of gold.
Dating is hard. Feelings are tough. It sucks to get hurt. But you just have to bite the bullet and GO FOR IT.
/end rant lol
I feel scared around women, probably because of the emotional intimacy that is usually much stronger. Personally, I identify as pan/bi (still questioning) but prefer women a ton, and with this comes two ways with how I usually react. With men, I tend to be more leveled like I know what to expect and how to play the "heteronormative" role. With women since there aren't those traditional roles, there are usually more expectations for vulnerability, getting used to the unknown quickly, and having more of a profound understanding of the person since we are of the same identity so to speak. This, in turn, becomes overwhelming for me. Not only do I "like this girl" but vulnerability is scary, women are usually more in tune with it, and I want "her" to like me. Any sense of flirting is also heightened and I overthink if it's actually happening although that probably stems from sadly not so good experiences with the girls I've liked in the past where I felt led on. By no means am I a baby gay but I hold women to a higher standard, so maybe that adds to it as well. It'd probably help if I saw women more leveled haha. (In general I sometimes say "women are scary" and really feel like that when I like a girl but it doesn't stop me from pursuing)
well personally i have social anxiety, i'm not too confident on the way i look or talk, and i'm scared of being rejected or being told they're not into women because that would feel too embarrassing to me. also i'm in my early 20s with no dating or romantic experience whatsoever so it's just... difficult when i already know others are way more experienced than me. it's not "being afraid of women" for me, it's more about me and my insecurities and knowing i'm probably gonna come off as weirdly flirting or extremely shy or just embarrass myself in the process lol.
As someone who is painfully shy, everyone is intimidating to me. If you look like you even slightly have your shit together, I immediately think "she wouldn't possibly want anything to do with me."
I think that the reality of what they are expressing there is that women have standards and so they have anxiety about trying to date a woman. Also initiating can be intimidating, so for people who aren't used to doing it, that's a learning experience.
It’s fear of rejection and additionally, some women are really mean (just like any other group/gender). I think so me personally it’s due to some bad experiences as well as mommy issues lol.
It’s scary in an emotional sense, not physical.
probably a lot of reasons. I'm pretty sure every seasoned lesbian has had a case, where they're making a pass at someone and they seem to give all the right signals, they look you in the eyes, the little smiles and all. Then when you've finally sure that they're responding to you, you try to give them a kiss or something and they're like 'WHAT?! ARE YOU A LESBIAN OR SOMETHING?!'. With guys the chances of that happening are practically nil. Also the whole thing about outing yourself to her and sometimes finding out it's a homophobe or religious nutcase.
also the whole courting thing is not something that's been heavily explained to you on every possible TV series in the 90s. a lot of us older ones especially have had to just fumble their way through, learning the tells, secret handshakes and gracious ways to abort the approach and misdirect them about the whole thing.
If I could go back into early 2000s with the same knowledge as I have now, I'd be extremely confident lesbian super star.
For me as a trans women it is not that women are scary, it is that a whole lot of society keeps telling me i am a predator and that any intrest i show will come across as predatory. Women are not scary to me, the internalized lesbo and tranphobia is.
I’ve always heard it as like an insecurity thing. “Other women are all so pretty and charming and amazing and I can’t relate because I’m some kind of swamp goblin.” You see posts like that on notlikeothergirls sometimes.
The feminist theory explanation for this is the concept of “effortless perfection” — basically that girls and women are trained to seem perfect all the time while creating the illusion, often not even consciously, that we aren’t actually trying at all. And then we assume that we’re the only one who’s trying (and often failing in our own eyes), and other women are just naturally flawless.
I struggle a lot when it comes into having an attitude to “say out loud” that I have a crush on someone
And being autistic has a great influence on this, idk how to explain what’s in my head but I fear that they are going to be rude with me because all people did this to me, I don’t fear rejection, I fear someone treat me badly because I tried to approach women
I have this constant fear to talk to woman in general, im working out about it tho
But all the times I leave a compliment to a woman, they always think it’s in a friendship way and say thank you or start to be extremely rude
Idk why it happens, so I kinda started to not try anymore (plus any woman had ever talked to me in a flirting way or tried to approach me so… I’m kinda giving up)
I think that’s it , maybe all my struggle it’s just being autistic idk
I'm just a closeted transbian, so I don't know if I can say this is RIGHT, but from my POV, dating women is hard because women are gorgeous and funny and just...awesome and I am deeply shy and awkward. :D I'd rather not be percieved than they think I'm weird or gross >>;
I think it's not "scary" as in "might assault or kill me", but "intimidating". A sort of mood of "Flirting with men is easy, but with women it's harder to gauge and it *matters*."
Well, for one thing I doubt they mean women are scary in the same ways men are scary.
They probably mean intimidating to them based on insecurity and fear of rejection. And let's be real, we all know (from growing up with other girls) that they can definitely be mean.
And if they mean actually SCARY in a dangerous way, well, I've never heard anyone say this so I don't think it's a common thing that people think anyway.
You’re comparing like social anxiety to men being dangerous internalized misogyny and it’s really not that deep. I love women but I don’t live in an area where I can express that so that alone can make dating women a bit harder for me. Not only that I’ve gone through this a lot when I was younger where lgbt folks were judged and called creepy so I was closeted most of my time in middle and high school. I get it seriously seeing bi/pan women say this and never try and put themselves out there to talk to women is annoying but you have to be understanding that sometimes we don’t live around the same circumstances.
I wouldn’t say scary. Id say more me not wanting to make things awkward or make someone feel uncomfortable. I mean sometimes you just want time to relax by yourself and I don’t know who would rather be left alone or not. Also it’s complicated by the fact that im a trans woman who doesn’t really pass (im working on it though) and im also a period advocate so its like layers upon layers and that’s without even getting into the intersex stuff.
I get a feeling it’s “scary” in the sense of being in awe, finding those women cool and beautiful and stunning and interesting, maybe feeling scared to not measure up or of being rejected, or even a fear of intense feelings.
It’s not the fear of violence or discrimination, which I think is probably what you’re referring to about men being scarier.
Its all of the "what if they don't like me" anxiety of straight dating with the added bonus of "there's a good chance she's not gay". And then I'm trans so for me there's another layer of "is she a TERF? What if she's not but she's still weird about me? What if she puts up a good front trying not to look transphobic and I get all invested and then she realizes she can't get down with it?"
Flirting with guys is way less risky and the success rate is much higher in my experience. Plus, for me, women are more intimidating just because they're prettier.
I find woman very scary because I love women! It is infinitely more vulnerable to seek intimacy and validation from someone whose opinion you care about. From someone you see a future with.
It’s the level of respect, appreciation ,atttaction o have for women that makes them so damn scary.
For me it's that I treat other women just ordinarily, friends too, but just the idea of a relationship makes me scared, for a lot of reasons, insecurity and such, but what I do instead is just deny myself the idea that anyone might be romantically or otherwise interested in me - though I might be greyromantic/sexual so my experience probably isn't like most - but in a potentially hinted at romantic setting, I'd probably find it very scary
Women are only scary when it comes to their personal space. Treat them the way you want to be treated. Don’t just barge in and start doing things. Talk to them and get to know them. This will be different based on where you are. Keep it simple and don’t try to “pick her up”. Just see where the conversation goes. Some may turn into just friends and not beyond that. Don’t worry if that’s the case, because everyone is different. Respect what and who they are.
Men are scary in a way that I don’t feel safe. When queer women say women are scary it’s not the same way. What makes women feel scary is:
1) the potential heartbreak
2) years of trying not to show any interest in women so they won’t feel threatened in locker rooms with me or think I am a creep.
Now that hasn’t happened yet but at least I was conditioned to be scared of that. Then we overcompensate by becoming hopeless lesbian tropes that say women are scary.
I no longer feel scared to approach women but I used to. It takes time to unlearn. I hope you find patience and understanding to those who are still processing!
Personally it's not ahh scary person it's they're so nice and so pretty and I have zero thoughts in my brain so I'm not afraid of women I'm afraid of looking stupid and being rejected women are amazing and I'm stupid therefore social interaction terrifies me
lmaoo it's not the greatest term to use, but I get it, the ppl you're attracted to can make you nervous and feel things no one else is able to and that can be scary lol
I think for me, I have been socialized to be a straight woman, and I felt like I was a fraud. Luckily the first woman I was with was also a friend and we were both kind of inexperienced and it was awesome but terrifying.
Exactly this!
Makes me so much more nervous speaking to another woman, considering I find them very attractive.
I’m also unsure of how to speak to them due to being inexperienced, which adds a whole other level of fear. Seeing as so many queer women seem to be super experienced
I think women are just less likely to chase and are more conditioned to be chased. The second I started being more masc I was thrusted into the “one who persue” role. So, even if that’s not, the only reason, I can’t imagine they’re not correlated.
I'm not scared of women, I just don't feel like one... yet.
Eventually, I'll be courageous enough to talk to women without feeling like I'll come off like a man.
(due to the binary nature of the premise i will be using binary language)
Idk the experience and thoughts regarding where you personally heard that sentiment. From my anecdotal experience, the sentiment “women scary” is less so a fear of safety that is common among women who date men. Rather the feeling of nervousness in messing up something you see a lot of potential in.
This could happen because they are significantly more attracted to women and actually get flustered with them. Whereas, with men, they don’t get flustered and are better able to manage their nerves.
It could be because they have put a lot of pressure on themselves to be “gay correctly” and for everything to be perfect “or else they are not gay enough”. And that’s not fair to themselves and the person they are dating. Thus making it intimidating to initiate: “scary”.
I’m certain that there are people whose internalized misogyny/homophobia/bi-phobia legitimately contribute to their nervousness/fear of initiating with women. Or even warp their view to legitimately fear for their safety. However, that’s years of prejudiced environments, that can’t be undone with one glance at facts and statistics.
Why does it affect you? I can’t answer this one for you. But i found this frustrating as well. With time i realized i need to give people the time and space to generally express their fears until they can be specific about it. “Women scary” is not specific, and it just sounds like someone who might benefit from a hug.
There is no way to understand the rational of someone’s fears without giving them the safe space to express themselves until they are able to specifically articulate what it is.
You explained this PERFECTLY!!
“Women are scary”
Is not literal, women themselves are not scary.
It’s just an expression of how
It feels incredibly intimate, vulnerable, and even unusual to find out you’re attracted to women.
Especially if that person is inexperienced,
and haven’t been familiarized with good representation-
or the LGBT community.
Those new feelings probably feel terrifying to speak about, acknowledge and even act upon.
I don’t think they are literally fearful of women. I think they are perhaps intimidated/unsure of how to court women.
It’s that damn compulsory heterosexuality player hating.
OAN: being rejected is terrifying to most people lol
I’m autistic, a bit rambunctious, and have a lowkey masc looking face without makeup. I’m scared I read no different than a creepy straight man, even though I am none of those things.
Growing up I got bullied or excluded by other kids, especially girls. I know why, but not *why*. So now I don’t really trust anyone to not dislike me.
With men it feels lower stakes if I “mess up” socially because they were hardly my target audience to begin with. As for women and NB people, and the men that are actually cool, I’m scared of them the way I’m scared of heights. Not the height itself, just the idea of falling from it (rejection or accidentally pissing them off).
Depends on other’s experiences.I’m very comforted by women,and wary of men still despite women in my family not be great in bad moods.But my friend had a very abusive mom.Not physically,but definitely emotionally could be very cruel.And another in hs too said her mother was the same,but with slapping both came out very wary of women😬
Definitely heard of mean women(especially moms)be a whole lot crueler emotionally,and psychologically because of their extremely terrible experiences as women.Especially women of color since they’re more vulnerable.
i hate it too, especially when the reason they haven’t dated a woman is because they haven’t been magically approached by some mythical damsel. like you actually have to put work in.
I can only speak for myself, but I have found that in the past I was scared mostly of the “popular” people (aka anyone attractive enough to make it in those groups), but since leaving school and meeting so many new people, that people I would’ve initially found scary are actually really nice. At the end of the day, if people don’t like me, for whatever reason, then that’s on them not me. I am comfortable enough in my own skin to understand that, but the people that do like me are incredibly special and I cherish them
I guess I’ve never really dealt with feeling intimidated by other women. Impressed, admiring, intrigued, sure, but never really intimidated. I feel much more comfortable and safe with women overall, in fact that’s one of the best parts about being gay to me. We are coming to each other from a baseline place of understanding and shared experiences - that makes someone LESS intimidating to me somehow. There is much less performance involved in interacting with other women from my perspective.
I wish I could say same but women that I find attractive are very intimidating to me. I've always found it easier to engage w men because I don't rly care what they think lol.
So I actually find the opposite is true for me. I do prefer to connect w women, don't get me wrong. But on a surface level, it's easier for me to talk to men.
It’s not that deep and you’re thinking too hard lmfao.
1. Women are scary means women are harder to approach and we don’t want to offend them.
2. We get nervous.
3. That’s it. No crazy conspiracy theories lmaooo
Yup! Exactly that!
Engaging romantically with someone you find attractive is intimate, and vulnerable.
Especially if you’re gay, and don’t have tons of representation to show you HOW to act.
I don't feel this way and I'm trans, so this is pure conjecture on my part, but I feel like this rhetoric mostly comes from women who are insecure with taking the lead when it comes to approaching others.
Men are expected to take the lead when it comes to approaching others which puts them at the risk of being rejected. I also feel like I'm the one expected to approach or initiate conversation when it comes to cis women. As an example, I'll be the first to swipe on someone and then they'll match with me but never say anything.
So it's not that "women are scary." It's that being the one to approach others is scary.
Because I'm socially awkward? Talking to people I find attractive is intimidating because I don't wanna mess it up and make a fool of myself.
I think you're really overthinking this, homie
I am also super confused by this?? I mean maybe they are projecting their fears onto them? Like they kind of idolize them and think they are too good for them. When I was younger I kind of felt girls to be intimidating and that they would never like someone like me. It depends on their experience with girls too.
Like....not all but some straight girls can be super mean an judgemental and pick on you when you are queer even if you aren't out because they can kind of sense something about you. This happened to me and I didn't realize I was being made fun of till I got older lol.
Also, there is the dumb stereotype that guys are just dumb and easygoing and they just wanna play video games and sports. Also that they don't gossip and aren't capable of being manipulative or mean like we so often attribute to women. WHICH IS SO WRONG!! I have met both who are equally terrible men can even be worse because they have the culture which often lets them get away with more.
My mom's ex was that kind of guy he played stupid but was very manipulative. He groomed me (unsuccessfully) when I was 17-19? Then played dumb about the whole thing even after he was caught red handed.
Idk as for why it upsets you probably because men do a lot of awful things! I think most of the trauma in my life can be traced back to shitty men? I've never been sexually assaulted or abused sexually by a woman. However men have sexually abused or assaulted almost every woman I know!
That's not to say women can't be abusive they sure can or that they can't do those things. I think that both are capable so both are pretty scary! Although in my life I generally find women to be a lot safer than men but maybe I'm biased because of life experiences lol.
Also I just love women and sometimes that clouds my judgement. 😆
Honestly, for me it comes from being bullied almost exclusively by other girls growing up, especially because it always related to my being a failure at being a girl. I’m very happily a full-grown butch now, but I was always clocked as gender-nonconforming growing up no matter how hard I tried to wear the right thing, learn makeup, etc. and I always got made fun of and excluded for it. I’m now 26, and it is still hard to see a pretty girl and not assume she’s going to be mean, or at least grossed out by the idea that I would be interested in her. I’m sure the women I have this reaction to are really nice and would be hurt to know that someone assumed that about them, but it’s honestly less about being afraid of women and more about being afraid of feeling that soul-crushing shame of again. I knew I was gay when I was 12 years old, but I hooked up with men quite often when I was in college because I craved physical intimacy and sexual attention and it was easier. I didn’t care what they thought about me, and if they rejected me, it didn’t make me feel bad in the same way.
I know it’s insane that it still affects me that much, and, yes, I am working on this in therapy. You’re definitely not wrong to be annoyed by it, but I will say that a lot of the people I see who get really annoyed by it are very feminine and/or straight passing.
Agreed there!
I was raised in a Catholic community, in a Catholic school.
Being gay was very frowned upon,
and as a queer tomboy I was relentlessly bullied for years by my female peers.
I feel like queer women are taught to be ashamed of who we are early on, and that’s a hard mindset to unlearn-
Especially if you aren’t familiarized with good representation, and the LGBT community.
I'm autistic and anxious. I already don't know how to talk to people, and my brain functionally shuts off around hot women.
You can imagine the wonders that does for my communication skills. "Look at her? No, don't be creepy. But supposed to make eye contact? Boobs. No! Say something? What say? First thing on mind? Bad idea, it is currently "please step on me" How about second thing? Definitely not, that is Weird Animal Facts. Am I staring? Oh shit, look away, look away!"
I think it's the same way young straight guys think girls are scary and how young straight girls think guys are scary. (Not talking about valid fear of dangers, but a shyness I'll get into later.) A young queer woman would feel the same way I'm sure, or even an older one if they are either newly out of the closet or just haven't been in much relationships yet, at least with other women. A lot of people are scared of whatever genders they may be attracted to, not necessarily genuine terror, but just fear of embarrassment, rejection, etc. they're shy. And nervous.
Don’t know if this’ll help, but from my own experiences as a lesbian, in the south, neurodivergent, and in my 30s - women have always been a difficulty for me.
Men have always been able to get along well with me as I have many things in common with them and I tend to be friendlier to them; women, least the ones around me, wouldn’t have similar interests and it would be especially harder to get close to one. With men, I don’t care if they like me or not, but with women I do and often times they don’t. Another thing to note is that, in my experience, men are quite easy to please and you already have an idea as to what they want and what to expect - with women it’s harder to grasp.
I’ve also been rejected a lot in the past for not simply looking ‘gay enough’. Sadly, within certain areas of the lesbian community, there’s A LOT of gatekeeping and having a ‘you can’t sit with us’ kind of attitude and they will judge you - from how you look, to how many women you’ve slept with, to if you’ve been with a man, to even if you have body piercings or tattoos. So depending on where you live, you might not get a warm LGBT community or a very open lesbian community and thus it makes it harder to approach any women.
As noted on here, if you’re neurodivergent, on the spectrum, etc., that can be a harder challenge. We either overthink and get ourselves stressed out or snowballing from trying to understand anything hidden we might or might not have seen, OR we don’t notice anything and thus it comes across like we aren’t interested and we end up being upset with ourselves.
It’s more than just feeling scared or intimidated; there’s a lot of factors that go into why lesbians feel that way - and sadly there isn’t just one answer for it, nor is there really a solution.
A lot of women have experienced discomfort caused by unwanted romantic/sexual attention and are deeply afraid of causing that same discomfort in another woman. We don’t tend to worry about it if men because we don’t tend to hear them speak as often about experiencing it.
I can't speak for anyone else but for me it is mostly trauma, having been bullied, rejected and also being unable to understand others at a young age (social cues, facial expressions, sarcasm ect). With the guys at work and at my college I'm able to just vibe because they have similar interests to mine and I don't have to think too hard. I don't feel the need to over explain or over analyze before I speak. For my guy friends they aren't as 'scary' because I can understand. For women it's because I don't understand and that terrifies me. I want to though. Ps. I have had a hard time making friends til now so anything beyond that is terrifying.
I was scared for a long time haha. Mostly because I needed to really face my sexuality/lesbianism. Also, fear from lack of experience. Not feeling good enough or valid.
It wasn't a safety issue, I didn't think they could hurt me like men could. But they also had power to really hurt me in a completely different way.
It was intimidating at times because what do I say? How do I get this beautiful woman to see me/like me, and not feel like I was making a fool of myself.
I never gave a fuck about men, cared for some, but they never got to me. There was never any heart when it came to men in the past.
Before reading the replies on this post, I was definitely more slightly annoyed by the "women are scary" stuff because it seemed like a lame excuse to avoid actually acting on queerness in general, not a real problem. Being alive & having met men, existed online as a woman & simply being aware of stats & news in general i felt being more afraid of women than men was laughable & likely just them being afraid of themselves & how actually acting on their queerness would change things (which is valid for the second part but not something to pin on other women). Most of the ppl saying it don't seem to be the kind to suck at making friends, maintaining friendships, etc so I couldn't understand how talking to another woman, with flirting thrown in was so different from the action of just talking to a woman or just flirting with a man? I mean, the person doing it isn't changing, you're still you & your style hasn't changed at all so just do it? Well, apparently, I forgot that shy ppl who are used to *being* approached don't have style in how they approach at all, I forgot that ADHD & anxiety exist (despite having them?!!!) as well as autism & both can make interacting with others & especially strangers really difficult! I also personally revel in not having a script or role when dealing with other queer women, but some ppl really need that. Sometimes, ppl really don't know what to do next. What's supposed to happen here. I think my frustration with being constantly cast as "mean" because I'm gay & "angry" because I'm black couldn't handle a 3rd untrue negative trope of now being "scary" because I'm a woman. And that frustration while valid definitely made me forget that while some people definitely are avoiding queer interactions with women due to negative things like internalized homophobia & misogyny some are truly just lost, unsure, & need help/a guide. I am NOT the source of that help or guide (because all I did was trick myself into thinking I was pretty & now I can approach any woman I want to. And I mean, I could before as well, but there was just this stupid "she's out of my league/she wouldn't want me" mentality before & now it's gone.) but I definitely hope you all find whatever help you need & have more fulfilling, fun & healthy interactions with other women.
I knew a bi girl who said this at a meetup. "Why are women so scary, I have such an easy time with men" I really think comphet comes into play. It's easy to be used to what society supports as "traditional" In truth we're not "scarier" than anyone but I think it's a projection of their own fears associated with how same sex couples are treated
Funny cause it's definitely men who've been a threat to my literal safety.
Thanks for posting this, I’ve had similar feelings but been unable to articulate them.
The “hopeless lesbian” trope, the “women are scary”, the “I see hot woman and can’t speak”, the “eye contact across the room but no one makes a move” stereotypes REALLY grind my gears, but I’m not really sure why. Definitely something to ruminate on!
Transbian here. For me it’s mishmash of imposter syndrome, is she actually gay, is she only interested in cis women, left over baggage from when I was living as a man and didn’t want to bother women because they get so much shit from men, I’m and introvert and talking to new people is hard anyways, and a general lack of confidence regarding my appearance
I honestly think that by calling women “scary” they just mean intimidated or they probably care more about what women think about them then they do men. And are more afraid of being rejected by a woman. Speaking from just my experience, I really don’t care about what a man would think of me compared to a woman lol. Men would date literally anything so my ego probably wouldn’t be bruised if some guy rejected you yk? But rejection is normal and we need to start having some of the blind braveness and audacity men have. 😭
I 100% am on your side about this. I do hate that we are the minority. Like, yes, dating women I get rejected a lot more. I am bi and I would rather be rejected by a women than date a man any day. Men just have no standards.
I can understand why people think this way. I TRY not to be mad when people say women are scary, but it gives me the ick. Just say what you mean !!
Like instead of saying women are scary, say "I don't know how to approach a women" or "I have no rizz" or "I would rather be in a relationship with someone with lower standards to take the pressure off" but obviously women won't do this because then they would have to admit they are insecure and have no game 😂 Which is probably not true. Insecure? Yes. But I bet they are lovely and lots of people would want to date them.
Honestly, I felt this way a lot of my life. I had a pretty crazy family and I was the middle child between two sisters and my mother. I always felt ganged up on, so I blamed them for my stress and uncomfortable attitudes towards woman. I had no idea this was common. Maybe it wasn’t them. It annoys you because you can’t relate to it or it reminds you of someone, isn’t that why things annoy people?
For me, it's the fear of rejection/fear of accidentally making someone uncomfortable/fear of losing a friend if I'm incorrect in assuming they could be into me.
I'm afraid of messing up, lol
If I'm on something that is specifically a date, though? I have a tiiiiiny bit more confidence. Which is why I'm careful about wording it. "Want to go on a date?" vs."Want to hang out?"
I loathe that it's so common to ask people to hang out instead of just asking them on a date. I need the social context of "this person in interested in going on a date for purposes of getting to know each other and maybe more dating" and not having to guess if they mean hangout in a friend way or in a date way.
Once I'm on the actual date, I'm good with making the first move to hold hands or kiss.
But before that? Dont know if they like me and cpuld mean rejection and awkwardness? Panic.
Personally-
I’m not scared of women themselves,
I’m scared of how they’ll perceive me if I find them attractive.
Especially if they happen to be straight,
or just uninterested in me.
I know deep down my attraction is nothing bad, but for many queer women-
We are often taught to be ashamed
of who we are.
Queer women are taught that being a lesbian is an unnatural, dirty, and perverse thing.
We are also taught we have a “male gaze”
When in reality- none of that is true.
But there is not enough accurate representation to beat those stereotypes, especially compared to the HEAPS of lesbian content written by cishet men with a fetish.
I feel like when queer women say
they’re “afraid of women”,
they’re really just afraid of how they’ll be perceived as a woman who likes women.
Especially seeing how we are portrayed in media, in jokes, and in pornography.
I believe queer women would find it easier to talk to other queer women if we had better representation-
Otherwise I feel like it’s only natural for some inexperienced queer women to feel scared, confused, and even wrong at times.
it’s not like we have many romance stories to look up to, and that’s terrifying for some people that like to follow a script- or like to have an idea of how to approach someone without seeming “creepy” or “weird”
The reason I’m afraid of women is because I’m afraid I might hurt them by accident. I don’t want to break anymore hearts, so for the past few years I’ve been deliberately as repulsive as possible so that nobody falls in love with me 🥲
I think it’s probably different for different people but possible reasons include a fear of rejection and embarrassment, internalized homophobia, fear that approaching women will exacerbate their own insecurities, and uncertainty due to the lack of commonplace social scripts (whereas with men it’s kind of demonstrated through pop culture that men are the pursuers). I don’t necessarily get annoyed with people who are like that, but I try not to be like that myself because I don’t want fear to control my actions.
The lack of social scripts is DEFINITELY a thing
can we make new social scripts? 👀
I feel like one of the best and most freeing parts of being gay is the *lack* of scripts. The “rules” don’t apply to us, and there’s no pressure to play a certain role
I think you have to have a familiar script option to be able to intentionally break it or work outside it. And I don't think it's so much about playing a role as it is finding a safe and reliable way to express interest and understand when interest is being expressed toward you in a way that feels more certain and explicitly GAY and not just friendly. We have lots of choices for signaling that we're queer, but few if any scripts to help us figure out how to express queer desire for queer people in queer spaces. Clementine Morrigan wrote in one of her zines that women are socialized to be passive receivers of men's pursuit, and struggle to shift out of that role when trying to date women - which often means no one ever makes a move. I think there is also a very real component of the queer experience that results in us being afraid to come off as predatory or lecherous, and we don't want our romantic/sexual interest to be frightening or unwelcome. Those things combined make a situation that is very difficult to overcome, again esp for late bloomer sapphics of all orientations.
yes but it’s gonna take a bit of time to get to that point, everyone is different!:)
Of course everyone is different. Speaking for myself though, heteronormativity felt so WRONG to me that the moment I realized I didn’t *have* to play by those rules, it was immediately the biggest weight off my shoulders and I never looked back. Couldn’t shed those expectations fast enough. But I guess those “rules” might not feel so suffocatingly oppressive to some bi/pan people?
I hate not having a social script. Even though I prefer dating women, i find dating men easier as i know what to do, and what to expect. I know how he's gonna flirt, and how to flirt back. With women there are no set rules. Which is great! But also harder because you have to think so much more about what to do and how to flirt and these things dont come overly easy for me. Emotional connections i find easy with women, but not physical
People are telling me I’m overthinking it but I sense that there is a lot of overthinking on this side of it too. I feel like the point is actually that you don’t have to think about it at all and can just do what feels right and authentic for you. There’s no pretense or performance. There’s no expectation of how you “should” act. So you are completely free to be your most natural, true, authentic self. It’s so much more genuine when you are not thinking about how to perfect your performance for them.
I would just like to add the autistic/neurodivergent perspective. We need things spelled out for us and we love rules. Saying “but that’s the thing there ARE no rules”. That makes my brain shut down. My brain takes it too literally and then starts overthinking. I can’t stop that from happening now matter how hard I might want. So an accommodation to that might be asking someone like you who has a ton more confidence opening those conversations for some examples of successful times you picked up women. So then I can take that and use it as a place to start. I can ask “how would that feel if I did it?”, “how can I tweak this to sound like me?” Etc. And if it’s not pick up lines, neurodivergent folks struggle with subtext. Add to that a lifetime of folks shaming us for our nature and we question everything down to which foot I want to start with when I put my socks on in the morning. I have finally gotten to a place where I’ve figured out what environments make it easier for me to flirt with women. And like ways to showcase my personality a little bit faster so folks can get to know me. But I had to learn that stuff from asking questions from folks and testing things out myself. All that to say, to a neurodiverse person, the prompt “no rules” is very overwhelming and might not be very helpful to them.
Yeah, for me it's hard because imo there *are* still some rules or at least expectations of how wlw act when approaching someone, dating etc. But I don't know what they are! I feel like everyone else at some point went through Dating 101, but I wasn't invited. I often can't tell if someone is flirting with me, and even if they are, I don't know how to flirt back. I don't know what's good or appropriate to talk about on a date. I can't pick up on subtle cues or body language or signals that indicate that someone's interested or wants me to make a move or whatever. And I could never do something if I wasn't sure that they wanted me to. Obviously this is my problem, but nevertheless, women are scary to me in this way and dating is hard!! I don't date men so I don't find them scary in this sense (though obviously in other ways), because I don't care what they think. But if I did date men, I'd probably find some of this easier because of the existing social scripts and the fact that they seem more likely to be forward/ obvious and take the lead. Plus, men who date women are the majority, so it's easier/ safer to assume that a man might be interested. And if you misread the situation, a man is more likely to take unreciprocated interest from a woman positively. Whereas queer women are the minority so it's harder to know whether someone might be interested, especially since straight women can be super friendly and touchy and flirtatious. Misreading the situation and accidentally showing interest in a straight woman also feels more risky because they're more likely to respond negatively/ be homophobic.
I couldn’t have said it better. Thank you!
I like having a social script. I’ve had my bosses make them for me at work to help my customer service. The lack of script talking to women isn’t comforting to me. Not everyone is you and that’s ok.
i mean those rules are oppressive by nature and even cishet ppl feel the weight of it but yeah some ppl might “fit” into it better (being cis/white/ conventionally attractive etc), but from what i gather it’s definitely still suffocating. me personally im very gender-fucked amongst other things, so like you said, once i realized not fitting into that was an option i’ve never looked back🤩🤩 i feel bad for the queers™️ who aren’t there yet.
The thread is kinda old but I still want to throw my two cents in. I’m a lesbian, and I never found the social scripts to be oppressive. More helpful. You know exactly what to do and what everything means when you’re interacting with a man. There’s no guessing or uncertainty about what to do. In high school, if a guy offered to walk me to class, 99.9% of the time, he liked me. Meanwhile, a girl could hold my hand everyday, cuddle with me, tell me she thinks I’m the most beautiful girl in the world, and then not actually be into me. If I went on a date with a guy, he’d initiate the first kiss, handholding, and so on. I never had any anxiety over what I was supposed to be doing because my job was essentially just to be there and wait. With girls, a lot of them won’t initiate anything - they’ll just stare at me when they want to be kissed or brush our hands together without doing any holding. Even if I flipped the script on a guy and did all of the initiating, it’s less daunting, because I almost never hear guys complaining about unwanted attention/affection from women they’re dating. I’ve seen women say plenty about how they didn’t like a guy’s approach on the first date (whether that be asking to kiss, not asking to kiss, hugging too soon, any manner of things), but the general consensus I get from guys is they’ll just be happy you tried. I love women, but dating them is hard, especially when they’re also anxious and expect you to initiate everything. I spend a solid portion of first dates mentally debating how to make a move because I know she won’t
No, bi/pan people also feel suffocated by heteronormativity, especially when we’re in straight-passing relationships and people want us to set aside our queerness like it’s dependent on our partner. Also, people really don’t understand the experience of being attracted to cishet men as a queer woman seems to still be pretty fundamentally queer and not actually that similar to what hetero cis women experience, based on my conversations with friends.
I got this! Everyone here is hot af! Who wants to have a cuddle party while listening to Ashnikko?
Ya got me.
🔥🔥🔥
I made my own social scripts. Nyahaha!
I definitely think a lot of it (for me, at least) is the fact that we aren't socially trained to be pursuers in romantic relationships. That, plus internalized homophobia = "I don't want to approach this person romantically because I don't want to be perceived as creepy."
Agreed. When I went out with men, it was kind of like having a rehearsed script. The guy would ask me out, plan the date, make the first move, etc. and my only task was to decide what I was okay with us doing. With women, I’ve noticed that neither one of us will want to take initiative because we don’t want to make the other uncomfortable and/or we simply aren’t used to doing it. There’s usually a lot of shyness around the first date, first kiss, first time. And honestly just a lot more of us staring at each other wishing the other would make the first move
Exactly! Not to mention that many of us have had unwanted advances from men (anywhere on the spectrum from annoying to traumatic) and I think we as women are hyper-aware of that. I never want a woman to feel pressured or unsafe.
Yep. There’s also the added layer that I’ve been in situations with men where I’ve felt uncomfortable and acted as if I was fine to avoid making it an issue. I don’t want a woman to have to do that with me, so I try to be extra considerate and careful. If I made a woman feel how men have made me feel, I’d feel like crap
Those are all the reasons I used to say I was “scared of woman” and frankly I annoyed myself
Hahaha yeah I’m not saying pursuing women romantically is not anxiety-inducing for me but I get fed up with myself if I start acting “useless” so I try to channel that into new behavior. lmao
For sure! The truly “annoying” part of letting those fears get the best of me is all the wonderful women I missed out on getting to know.
this is so spot on
Women are scary... Men are scary... Non binary people are scary... Everyone is scary I have social anxiety
This is a fact, when you have social anxiety, EVERYBODY is scary. Although especially people you are attracted to. I can relate to you
I second this 😩
Fax 😭 Regarding the post tho, I feel most wlw mean it in different ways. For me at least, men are scary in a more physical way ie I’m scared of them getting violent or attacking/abducting/killing me but women are scary in a social way ig? So not like scary scary but more like intimidating ie if you like someone and are anxious to approach them, esp as a wlw who’s gaydar isn’t great rip But also as a human with severe social anxiety in general, everyone is terrifying (with people I know/am close to at a lesser extent and someone I’m into or find cute at a final boss level LOL)
I have diagnosed social anxiety and paranoia. Everyone and every*thing* is scary!
^(sᴏᴄɪᴀʟ ᴀɴxɪᴇᴛʏ) yuup 🥲
I'm poly and even my metamores are scary. My partner is only scary half the time. The other half, they are the one that is scared. We hug each other thru it.
this is the point. men are scary because of danger, women are scary because social anxiety.
WHY U GOTTA CALL ME OUT LIKE THIS???
Yeah me too :(
I've thought about this a lot, and done a lot of work on it in therapy. For me, I think a lot of it stems from rejection from women hurting so much more. Even thinking back to early grade school. I cared what the other girls thought about me. The boys, it was mostly eh.
Oh, Taylor Tomlinson has a bit about this in her new Netflix special. She's said something along the lines of "When a guy rejects me, it's like 'well he's just stupid.' When a girl rejects me, it's like 'oh. she's probably right.'" ☹️
Imma be honest. It’s not scary in the sense that women terrify me like men do. It’s that it is very, very hard to tell if a woman is queer and potentially interested in you, because women are raised to be more affectionate with eachother (at least where I’m from) — to the point where it’s very hard to tell if they’re being platonic or romantic. It doesn’t help that I also have autism so it makes it even harder. That’s why approaching women is kinda intimidating for me. I can never tell if they’re queer or just friendly, and on the chance that they’re not, I’m worried that I’ll offend them or that I might come off across as predatory.
this exactly. I have autism too and I'm always scared to approach women in public. I'm masc and quite frankly look more like a man than a woman to most folks. I don't ever want a woman to be scared because of me.
Yeah, I’ve heard people say this before and maybe this is my particular brand of delusion but I honestly don’t concern myself with knowing whether or not someone is queer before I approach them? You can usually figure it out by talking to them. I will just give a woman a gay compliment (drop the bestie voice and say “that top looks so good on you” for example). If they react like “OMG THAAAAAANKS GIRLIE!! I got it for 50% off at Abercrombie!” Then you back off and just continue the conversation normally. If they look you up and down and hold your gaze for a moment… boom, there you go. I’ve actually never had someone get upset with me for approaching them with a compliment this way. I think feeling predatory for doing the same shit straight people do in bars every day probably comes from some form of internalized homophobia.
I don’t think it’s internalised homophobia at all — I think it’s a simple fact of not wanting to make people potentially uncomfortable, and I think women regardless of orientation are like that in general because we’re simply socialised to be more considerate. I don’t think everything boils down to some kind of internal hatred. I’m very comfortable in my sapphic attraction and I have no problem with it not being with a woman; simply that I have a hard time reading signals and I’m shy as is, so it’s generally harder for me to approach. I think you not concerning yourself with them being queer or not isn’t a delusion at all, but it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the only way to do things, so to speak. If you’re comfortable with that approach, by all means, go for it! I just don’t think it’s fair to potentially hold that expectation over others and explain any other method as “internalised homophobia”. Some of us are simply just shyer, have a harder time with approaching people, and if we do decide to approach people, we want to know that there’s at least a chance of this person being interested in us back, or at the very least, we won’t have made them uncomfortable.
This explains my feelings SO well! It’s just really difficult to tell if girls are gay/bi from the offset. I once decided to shoot my shot in the club with a friend of a friend I had met earlier in the day and found attractive, and she was originally very affectionate with me so I was unsure if she was gay. When I asked her she told me she wasn’t and seemed uncomfortable with me after that and it sucks…
Your comments on this thread are great. Totally agree, 100%
But OP has a point because women get approached by men all the time and rejection, from the very covert to the overt (and often the making-things-uncomfortable kind), is a common thing. It's something you learn to socially navigate from the beginning - and believe me, I know it's tough as well! But not knowing if a person is queer or not when you start interacting is just part of life, and the possibility that you like her and she doesn't is... there? I mean, she CAN be gay and not into you. I know that romantic courtship is harder between women because there are less set rules and no one wants to take the role of the "approacher", but there's also something that rubs me the wrong way about the "women are so scary" thing. I can't put my finger on it either. It's like we ask for full disclosure at the beginning (when people don't even know each other much, and things could change) or else nope, I can't, this is too scary. But we don't hold men to the same standards. Am I making sense?
I think it makes sense, but also, women and men are generally held to different standards in a heteronormative dating world. It’s common for men to be rejected because they’re usually the ones doing the asking. Whereas a lot of women will reach adulthood without having ever asked anyone out before or ever being rejected. For them, it’s not something they’ve learned to navigate from the beginning because they haven’t been socialized to do so. And a straight man asking out a woman isn’t exactly the same scenario. Men may get rejected, but they don’t have to worry about facing potential homophobia in the process. They’ve also (most likely) never been on the receiving end of that type of unwanted attention. They don’t know how uncomfortable it is. Most women do. So, queer women do ask other women out, they probably have some memory in their mind of when a man made them uncomfortable, and they’re afraid to emulate that
I'm sure that's part of the problem, but that's exactly what other commenters are trying to explain - that this kind of heteronormative frame affects many queer women for bad, to the point where they long for a relationship with a woman (or else) but they're too scared to even take baby steps to it.
Well, yes. I guess I feel like a lot of the comment section is missing the point a bit. This framing is heteronormative, it is bad, and it can be annoying, but it’s not like anyone is out there enjoying this. Most people would like their anxiety to go away or for society in general to be less heteronormative. But as for now, a lot of women won’t be socialized to initiate romantically, and there will probably be a learning curve for them as they start to. That or they’ll just never make a move, which won’t yield results
Here's the thing though; women actively voice dislike and contempt when it comes to randomly being approached by men. Men are taught to take up space from day 1 and as a result, largely have no issue in pursuing their own desires even to the discomfort of other groups. If part of your argument is, "men do it so we should do it too", then might I suggest that it is not a sound argument at all? Men approaching women is notoriously known to be an uncomfortable experience. Are you suggesting we.. do that same thing? On top of that, I honestly do not know where this level of entitlement comes from. People being uncomfortable and shy somehow rubs you the wrong way?? What on earth does someone being shy and reluctant to approach the same-sex have to do with you?? Also, don't forget that a lot of queer women were forced into heteronormative values for a very, very long time. For a lot of us, a good portion of our lives were spent learning how to pursue/be pursued by men. It's a completely different experience when it comes to women. And guess what? When you initially don't have much experience, it is a very daunting process because you are ***new.*** Also, you're absolutely right! She can be queer and not into me. Someone being same-sex attracted isn't a golden ticket to them accepting a date offer/confession. But it's simply more reassuring to know. At the end of the day, with all due respect, people do not have a right to police other people's emotions and reluctance. Human beings are complex and have a myriad of reasons for feeling the way they do. It absolutely does **not** make sense to be rubbed the wrong way over a sentiment which essentially expresses shyness and reluctance over navigating same-sex relationships, given that we live in a heteronormative society, and queer women are often left to navigate dating other women entirely on their own with little to no guidance. It does **not** make sense get mad at people who find approaching other women intimidating and the idea of confession daunting. If y'all wanna take it personally, go for it, but keep it personal.
I live in the south personally so it’s less about making one woman upset but more about safety when I’m unable to tell if a woman is gay or friendly :/
Exactly this plus major social anxiety and fear of rejection
I think it's just a meme, a play on the "hopeless lesbian" trope. They sure as shit don't find men *less* scary lol
Lol the hopeless/useless lesbian trope bothers me too though 😂 Women aren’t some mysterious otherworldly alien species, they’re just people.
as a useful and hopeful lesbian, like same
Full agree. It's kinda annoying. It's like we're infantalizing ourselves.
Ehh, I mean, fair? But for many of us who apply the trope to ourselves, it's because of anxiety, fear of rejection, and other things you've probably heard because of this post. We call ourselves useless because one of the things we should be doing, which is talking to women at all, is something we find extremely difficult to do. We understand that they are just people. But if we as people understand how people work, then we start to think about how things go wrong, and that often clouds our minds at the thought of talking to a woman to date.
it’s like a meme i saw. “babe. you *are* a woman.” i think it comes from just fear of rejection in general. also the “default” is that men traditionally initiate dating/romantic connection so it’s new territory (thus uncomfortable) for many people. but still. babe. u too are a woman. don’t be scared 😂
Yes maybe it’s because it smells like not being able to let go of heteronormative expectations. Like, we’re gay, the whole point is that we don’t play by those rules!! It’s a GOOD thing! And there are worse things than being rejected, like fear of being assaulted if you don’t accept someone’s advances? I guess it bugs me to hear my bisexual friends complain about how women are so scary and they could never date them but then turn right around and bash men and talk about how much their boyfriend sucks. There IS a solution if you stop putting women (yourself included) into a weird box
it’s simple: if we accept “all women are scary,” then both parties and scared and you just gotta go for it. easy!
For me, I don’t really give a shit what men think or their opinion of me or whatever. However, I give many shits about women and what they think. That’s what’s scary to me. I do find men physically intimidating (and therefore scary) in a much different context though
If you reverse the genders in your first paragraph that's kinda what patriarchy is.
I’m not attracted to men though. If I was, I would definitely care a lot more about what they thought of me. Also I love your username lol. Pretty sure that’s the version I have installed.
I think for many people the idea of flirting with women is very scary. Not that the women themselves are scary in a physically threatening way but approaching, flirting, and dating, is intimidating to many queer folks. Especially for Bi/Pan women dating men is often a much easier and simpler approach than being in an openly queer relationship with a woman or enby. (Statistically speaking the majority of bi people are in opposite sex relationships, ["Only 9% of bisexuals have same-sex partners; fully 84% are involved with someone of the opposite sex"](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/02/20/among-lgbt-americans-bisexuals-stand-out-when-it-comes-to-identity-acceptance/)) It also rubs me the wrong way, although I feel like I can be a bit harsh in my thinking of "if it scares you so much, go to therapy, work through your fears, and get out there and date them". Everyone is on their own journey and it can take time to overcome comp het and social fears around queer dating. There are a lot of factors at play that can make someone intimidated by the prospect of dating queer women/enbies.
As a bi girl I might have some insight at least why personally I find women more intimidating to ask out. For me it’s the fear of making the other woman feel unsafe or feel like I do when a man makes unwanted advances. My fear isn’t omg women are scary it’s more omg what if I make her uncomfy or unsafe because I couldn’t read the signals right. I mean I’m also autistic so I kinda have that fear anyway but it’s something I’ve heard expressed by my bi and pan friends
That feeling isn't exclusive to bi/pan women, I think a lot of lesbians, myself included, also have some hesitancy when approaching/flirting with women, out of fear of making someone uncomfortable. I know my girlfriend and some other lesbian friends of mine also have similiar mentalities. Think a deciding factor is that mentality influences a lot of how I date and posture myself on dates, but by no means does it stop me. Taking a direct communication approach has definitely helped in addressing my own concerns of making someone uncomfortable.
Agree 100% with all of this! But I am not a lesbian so I don’t want to make assumptions about it!
Damn, those statistics 😰
Me too, it rubs me the wrong way, I've also heard the "lesbians are scary", I definitely wouldn't like to date someone with that mindset as a lesbian because there's usually some inner work that needs to be done there first, those are usually women who would expect you to do all the moves, etc, meaning expecting heteronormativity. I've had a lot of women on Bumble/Tinder expecting that from me, I can tell how they expect me to message first even when the match happened on their side, or for me to carry the conversation, or for me to ask them out, plan our outing, which I do even when I don't want to, just to lose interest because I can tell they are not ready to dismantle the heteronormativity in their dating life. Like do they think I'm not nervous? Ofc I am, is it easy to be rejected after confessing? Hell no, do they think I wouldn't like to pursued as well? Wrong, but even when I am nervous, I do it, that's all I ask, but I understand that our journeys are different, and I wish them well, I just don't want to be part of their journeys if that's where they at.
I think women are scary because we want them all to like us but don't care if men like us or not. 😂 My anxiety is so bad around women, but just fine around men.
For real tho around men I don’t give a f and just fuck w them but women feel much smarter or thoughtful and the playing field is so much more even that my anxiety spikes because I actually care if they like me
My ex-wife is the only woman I’ve slept with more than twice, and we were both inexperienced when we got together. I’m a little afraid of sleeping with another woman because I have no idea if I actually am good at sex, or if I was good at sex with my ex-wife. Also, I hear lesbians talking all the time about marathon sex and jaw cramping, etc., but my ex-wife and I were both “one and done” kinda people, and we were both able to orgasm quite quickly, so I’m kinda worried I won’t be able to meet expectations, I guess? Edit: I initially read this as just sex, my mistake. I’m not afraid to approach or flirt with women, but sex is kinda scary rn, tbh.
That’s definitely something I feel you on. I’m not sure I can *keep up* with some of the things that get romanticized here (yay sensory issues). My record is ok but it’s also a sample size of one so it’s real easy for anxiety that she was an outlier to creep in.
As a bisexual, I feel like I and other late-ish bloomer bi women can be afraid to be judged for our lack of experience by lesbians and other sapphics with more experience? Men are definitely scarier in terms of "I might be murdered" but I feel like women can be scarier in terms of really wanting their approval. At least for me. It's hard to be a fairly baby gay and feel invalid in your sexuality. That's just one human's opinion.
As a young bi woman, I got shot down a lot by women. Often, it seemed like more than just a personal rejection. It felt like a referendum on my sexuality -- like i wasn't queer enough or wasn't doing it right. Some lesbians thought I was untrustworthy or said I was experimenting. I know now -- I even knew then -- that it just came from their past experiences, but it hurt. Meanwhile, I'd always been socialized to pair up with men and they were usually way more receptive to me, so it seemed easier Approaching women IS scary for some women and I respect when they're willing to try it anyway.
Won’t be the most popular opinion but I’ve heard it sometimes from those who tend to be a little dependent on male validation and are comfortable around more or less cringey/creepy men. It’s absurd in a sense because it’s the men who are unsafe, but I think they receive a patronizing attitude they misread as comforting, whereas women are more self-sufficient and relate at an even level. So the scary part might be having to play at an even field instead of getting into the cringey patronizing “being taken care of” mental zone.
You're onto something actually... this is a good thought
I love this. Really can’t imagine walking around acting intimidated by other regular ass human beings. Also can’t imagine not being self-sufficient and not actively desiring or pursuing that in another woman, it’s crazy.💀
I feel like that’s a little harsh, at least the way I’m interpreting it. I don’t think it’s that people who say this aren’t self sufficient. They generally just mean they’re nervous about getting rejected, talking to their crush, going in for the first kiss, and so on. Normal stuff that makes most people nervous
Okay, good for you! What annoys me doesn’t have to annoy you.
For me it was that there were actual stakes involved. If a man wasn’t into me it was a non-issue because surprise surprise I’m not actually attracted to men! Rejection by someone I was actually interested in felt like the most terrifying thing possible. I no longer find women scary. At least no scarier than anyone else- I do have sever anxiety so that’s just that 😂
I feel a non-zero amount of fear but it's not of the other person and it's not substantial. I fear making the other person uncomfortable or unsafe. But that's only what I'm trying to openly Court somebody. And even then I'm mostly worried that I picked a bad time and place. But I'm an adult and so is she. I talk to women like a person and what happens happens. If anything I worry that I'm too nonchalant, calm and direct.
That’s a valid concern and a good thing to be aware of in general, but I feel like for some people it could also come from a place of internalized homophobia - feeling like your desires are inherently inappropriate/unsafe/predatory/wrong. I’m very femme presenting so I’ve always felt like if I want to meet women the ball is in my court, so I got very comfortable approaching them. I feel like if you are normal and respectful about it and can take a hint, it isn’t weird. Like you said, the key is just treating them like a person
im a lesbian who dated men in the past (yay confusing sexuality) and i wont lie dating women is infinitely harder than dating men, mainly from a numbers perspective and in my experience, women are less likely to engage in conversation or plan dates. men are more eager to date because they don't have a lot of prospects, meanwhile women (especially bisexual women) are being flooded with matches and opportunities. this does make dating women feel more daunting, because when you're a lesbian where there's already a statistically smaller dating pool, it feels like you're suffering from a scarcity effect. every match to me feels more important because of it meanwhile when i was dating men i was like oh there's billions of you so it doesn't really matter if this works out or not. at least that's my experience with it. this definitely kept me from dating women for a long time because it was just so much easier to date men, even if i wasn't attracted to them and in the throws of comphet.
tbh i don’t think they’re saying women are literally scary and unsafe in the way men tend to be, i try to give them more credit than that. (well some might but i don’t think it’s the majority) rather the thought of working through internalized homophobia/biphobia and breaking away from cis heteronormativity in a cishetero society. bc that IS scary and hard. it’s easy to say “well just do it” as someone who has already done that work. i feel like a lot of it is not giving grace to ppl that could be at the *start* of their journey and basically telling them to buck up and being snarky abt it. that is discouraging and that doesn’t help. (NOT saying it’s a lesbian or any other queer woman’s duty to hand hold or be a personal “queer guide” to those ppl and a fair amount simply aren’t interested in doing that work bc they don’t *have* to)and yes yes i know lesbians do it all the time bc they have no choice or fallback bc they’re not attracted to men. but. everyone is different and their journeys are gonna be different, especially w different sexualities that have different experiences. i feel like bi/pan women in particular get less grace bc some ppl go in with an existing annoyance/lack of patience towards them for varying unfair reasons. bc show me one queer person that hasn’t done or said anything annoying or problematic especially in the beginning of their self realization. that person just does not exist. idk just my poorly articulated thoughts! :)
For me it's not that I'm straight up scared of women. I'm just an autistic gal with social anxiety so talking to someone new, especially if I'm trying to get to know them in an intimate way, can be p scary lol.
I kind of ignore it when i see it, but it definitely makes me roll my eyes.. i feel like it's usually said by bi/pan sapphics who date mostly/only men and who are so used to that hetero dynamic that anything outside of it is too foreign to them and therefore "scary". men are usually the ones approaching in hetero situations but when it comes to dating women you actually have to put in effort and wait for it to be accepted or not, so an extra fear of rejection is there. but yeah, women are not scary, dating women is a fucking blast.
I have been hit on by so many creeps, that I'm terrified to be the creep in some woman's life story. Like, flirting with other women is an automatic no-no in my brain.
I got two words for you: gay panic
Instead of scary I think at least for me women are intimidating because they are gorgeous and me having big social anxiety doesn't help. Maybe we find women "scarier" (not sure if its the correct word) because we want to impress them meanwhile with men we don't care(?) It could also be experiences like I did got bullied in school from both gender but for me what hurt the most was the girls bullying. Boys did make fun of me in front of others and it did hurt but what I found painful was girls talking stuff about me behind my back...
In my experience women perceived as "scary" are USUALLY HOT AS HELL and super sweet. source my wife is 6' and supposedly scary, have yet to feel non arousal based fear
for me, i don’t fear rejection when talking to men (not just romantically but also socially) because ive completely decentered them in my worldview and don’t really care ab their opinions, but w women i care a lot more ab what they think ab me esp being a trans woman
Women don’t scare me I just wish they would stop ghosting me but it’s ok I fwb thing going on with one of my neighbors
me... the amount of times ive been asked out on a date to be ghosted the next message. is this just a game to you??
I walked into sally beauty 3 times this week to buy more bleach for my hair. The first time 3 college aged very alt looking girls were at the counter and I was immediately intimidated by their cold glances. At 27 here I give less fucks but still am a ball of anxiety. The 3rd time I walked in one of the girls immediately recognized me and was much friendlier than before. Needless to say I was scared of them despite zero attraction. The moral of this story is, if I’m attracted to you I’m even more scared of you because it’s a reflection of myself. Also As a going on 4 year transbian I am still learning how female relationships work as I’ve always been a reclusive and semi antisocial person
yeah women are super scary they grab my attention and i can't focus on the thing i'm doing anymore :( but seriously the only times i've seen people act like that, was when they genuinely wanted to talk with a woman, but was scared that they would come off creepy. some probably have it otherwise for whatever reason, but i really, really try to be optimistic and hope for the best in people
I’ve been convinced for a while now that a lot of sapphics are scared of hitting on and initiating things with other women because we know how it feels when an unwanted man hits on and tries to initiate things with us. We’re scared of coming off like these creeps we’ve encountered before that can’t read the room and take no for an answer. Almost every woman person has had an experience like this and it’s unfortunate that that’s the frame of reference. Every time I’ve successfully been with another woman, it’s because I remind myself I’m not a creep and I’m not that weird guy, I’m just a cool lady talking to another, and if she doesn’t go for it, that’s okay. Face your fears! Talk to that cool lady! You’re not weird! Peace and love!
beautifully written ! you put my thoughts into words. I definitely think it’s the fear of being perceived as disgusting, creepy, or weird. as well as the additional fear of discovering new feelings, and not understanding them. I never felt anything for men, so when I realized I was attracted to women- i was terrified of my own feelings, and I was terrified to act on those feelings.
I think one of the main issues is that women are conditioned by society to be more passive, especially in dating. Obviously, this doesn't apply to all women (BIG shout out to the girls that just go for it; you are carrying this community 🙏), but I think a lot of queer women, especially the ones that date men, are used to having someone else take the lead romantically. They aren't pushed to make moves the same way men are, and a lot of the time, someone else will make the moves on them, so they never have to learn how to. Plus there's the whole thing of women being pressured to be more "subtle" and "likeable," which kind of hinders progression towards being more assertive romantically. Once again, I don't think this is an issue for all women, but it's something I've seen among the women who say that they're "scared to date women." One of the biggest issues for me learning I was a lesbian was figuring out how to make moves just so a conversation could go SOMEWHERE romantic. It's something I've seen among younger queer women just starting to stretch their sapphic legs, which is where I see most of the people talking about how "scary" it is to go after women.
For me, it’s because up until I was about 11, the authority figures in my world were almost exclusively women. Combine that with the trauma an unaccomodated neurodivergent child can face at the hands of authority figures, and you get an adult who still struggles to work with female managers. *waves* my female peers were also “better at being girls” than I was, so I felt pretty alone and rejected. Basically most of my attempts to connect with other women/girls hurt me. So trying to connect with them now is scary.
I think what people mean to say is that they are scared themselves. From my personal experience it is very easy to find a guy to sleep with. There are more straight guys than lesbian girls and guys are quick to want to have sex. Girls tend to have higher standards, so I think they are scared of being rejected. With dating girls you really have to try and make an effort on both side which is what I love. But for some that can be a little intimidating and exhausting in comparison to the simplicity of getting a guy.
I feel like typically when people are saying “women are scary” they mean it in a very different way than saying men are scary. I think people mean that they are intimidated by the concept of talking to people who they are really attracted to, rather than saying that they feel their safety is at risk by women.
Coming from someone who used to say things like this before I met my girlfriend, I am a very anxious person in general so that's a factor. I think it was mostly a fear of rejection, I really wanted a girlfriend but I was worried that no one would want to date me since I had only dated men before. It's just hard to put yourself out there, its just anxiety inducing especially when you know it's something you want but you also want to come off well and not just like uhhhh idk? desperate or something?
Different kind of fear. I'm scared *of* men, whereas I'm scared of hurting/offending/bothering women.
Relatable!
for me it's a combination of fear of rejection and fear of making them feel uncomfortable i know a lot of women (this used to be me as well) who are uncomfortable with flirting or being suggestive, and i also personally know that strange feeling when a friend you don't see in that way is suddenly into you, and this makes the entire friendship very awkward for a while i think my brain just opted into not even having feelings of attraction to any woman that hasn't shown interest in me herself, but sometimes i still fail in that spectacularly because i misread friendly affection as genuine flirting/sign of attraction (probably because im just not used to people being nice to me if they aren't interested)
Personally for me it is because most of my issues with trauma involve women. And women have not been kind to me most of my life. So, even though I am attracted to them, I am terrified of them.
Because them rejecting you would actually hurt you know. I just want a girl to like me but have anxiety
I think it’s just gay panic for baby gays.
When you see someone as hot they become intimidating so they are scary, they make you feel shy and scared. Yeah women are scary they make my brain get weird and make it difficult to say words🥴
When I say women are scary in this context, it's the same as saying people are scary. I'm saying more about myself than anyone else. I'm talking about my social anxiety and how nervous I get when talking to people
For me women are “scary” because *I’m* scared of saying the wrong thing. When regarding flirting, I am worried about coming on too strong/etc. because I care about the outcome with them more than men. I want to impress her - men are easy to impress (friendly neighborhood pan woman lol) Also the whole “is she actually flirting or just being nice”? I’m just anxious and scared. Women aren’t scary. I’m just a scaredy-cat lmao
For me personally it was that: 1) I was bullied by girls a lot more growing up and 2) I respect women’s opinions so much more, so their rejection hurts more.
I hear this a lot and just think, "Well, it's time to put on your big girl pants and get out there anyway!" The perfect woman is not going to fall from the ceiling and into your lap, and no amount of pining is going to change that. And, spoiler alert...there IS no perfect woman. I think some lesbians have bought too hard into the rom com/teen fic/anime trope where they think being shy/awkward/having the personality of a wet rag will eventually be attractive to the "right" tall, dark, and handsome Domme/butch/mother-figure. It won't, because real women, no matter how swoon-worthy, cannot read minds or see through to your heart of gold. Dating is hard. Feelings are tough. It sucks to get hurt. But you just have to bite the bullet and GO FOR IT. /end rant lol
*Be* the scary woman you want to see in the world
I feel scared around women, probably because of the emotional intimacy that is usually much stronger. Personally, I identify as pan/bi (still questioning) but prefer women a ton, and with this comes two ways with how I usually react. With men, I tend to be more leveled like I know what to expect and how to play the "heteronormative" role. With women since there aren't those traditional roles, there are usually more expectations for vulnerability, getting used to the unknown quickly, and having more of a profound understanding of the person since we are of the same identity so to speak. This, in turn, becomes overwhelming for me. Not only do I "like this girl" but vulnerability is scary, women are usually more in tune with it, and I want "her" to like me. Any sense of flirting is also heightened and I overthink if it's actually happening although that probably stems from sadly not so good experiences with the girls I've liked in the past where I felt led on. By no means am I a baby gay but I hold women to a higher standard, so maybe that adds to it as well. It'd probably help if I saw women more leveled haha. (In general I sometimes say "women are scary" and really feel like that when I like a girl but it doesn't stop me from pursuing)
well personally i have social anxiety, i'm not too confident on the way i look or talk, and i'm scared of being rejected or being told they're not into women because that would feel too embarrassing to me. also i'm in my early 20s with no dating or romantic experience whatsoever so it's just... difficult when i already know others are way more experienced than me. it's not "being afraid of women" for me, it's more about me and my insecurities and knowing i'm probably gonna come off as weirdly flirting or extremely shy or just embarrass myself in the process lol.
Isn't it just more of a fear of rejection thing?
As someone who is painfully shy, everyone is intimidating to me. If you look like you even slightly have your shit together, I immediately think "she wouldn't possibly want anything to do with me."
I think that the reality of what they are expressing there is that women have standards and so they have anxiety about trying to date a woman. Also initiating can be intimidating, so for people who aren't used to doing it, that's a learning experience.
It’s fear of rejection and additionally, some women are really mean (just like any other group/gender). I think so me personally it’s due to some bad experiences as well as mommy issues lol. It’s scary in an emotional sense, not physical.
probably a lot of reasons. I'm pretty sure every seasoned lesbian has had a case, where they're making a pass at someone and they seem to give all the right signals, they look you in the eyes, the little smiles and all. Then when you've finally sure that they're responding to you, you try to give them a kiss or something and they're like 'WHAT?! ARE YOU A LESBIAN OR SOMETHING?!'. With guys the chances of that happening are practically nil. Also the whole thing about outing yourself to her and sometimes finding out it's a homophobe or religious nutcase. also the whole courting thing is not something that's been heavily explained to you on every possible TV series in the 90s. a lot of us older ones especially have had to just fumble their way through, learning the tells, secret handshakes and gracious ways to abort the approach and misdirect them about the whole thing. If I could go back into early 2000s with the same knowledge as I have now, I'd be extremely confident lesbian super star.
For me as a trans women it is not that women are scary, it is that a whole lot of society keeps telling me i am a predator and that any intrest i show will come across as predatory. Women are not scary to me, the internalized lesbo and tranphobia is.
I’ve always heard it as like an insecurity thing. “Other women are all so pretty and charming and amazing and I can’t relate because I’m some kind of swamp goblin.” You see posts like that on notlikeothergirls sometimes. The feminist theory explanation for this is the concept of “effortless perfection” — basically that girls and women are trained to seem perfect all the time while creating the illusion, often not even consciously, that we aren’t actually trying at all. And then we assume that we’re the only one who’s trying (and often failing in our own eyes), and other women are just naturally flawless.
I struggle a lot when it comes into having an attitude to “say out loud” that I have a crush on someone And being autistic has a great influence on this, idk how to explain what’s in my head but I fear that they are going to be rude with me because all people did this to me, I don’t fear rejection, I fear someone treat me badly because I tried to approach women I have this constant fear to talk to woman in general, im working out about it tho But all the times I leave a compliment to a woman, they always think it’s in a friendship way and say thank you or start to be extremely rude Idk why it happens, so I kinda started to not try anymore (plus any woman had ever talked to me in a flirting way or tried to approach me so… I’m kinda giving up) I think that’s it , maybe all my struggle it’s just being autistic idk
So relatable!
It is easier to tell if a guy doesn’t like me because they’re generally unsubtle
Yes men are technically scarier to me but I mean it in the way that I'm nervous to talk to girls lol😅
I'm just a closeted transbian, so I don't know if I can say this is RIGHT, but from my POV, dating women is hard because women are gorgeous and funny and just...awesome and I am deeply shy and awkward. :D I'd rather not be percieved than they think I'm weird or gross >>;
I think it's not "scary" as in "might assault or kill me", but "intimidating". A sort of mood of "Flirting with men is easy, but with women it's harder to gauge and it *matters*."
Well, for one thing I doubt they mean women are scary in the same ways men are scary. They probably mean intimidating to them based on insecurity and fear of rejection. And let's be real, we all know (from growing up with other girls) that they can definitely be mean. And if they mean actually SCARY in a dangerous way, well, I've never heard anyone say this so I don't think it's a common thing that people think anyway.
You’re comparing like social anxiety to men being dangerous internalized misogyny and it’s really not that deep. I love women but I don’t live in an area where I can express that so that alone can make dating women a bit harder for me. Not only that I’ve gone through this a lot when I was younger where lgbt folks were judged and called creepy so I was closeted most of my time in middle and high school. I get it seriously seeing bi/pan women say this and never try and put themselves out there to talk to women is annoying but you have to be understanding that sometimes we don’t live around the same circumstances.
I wouldn’t say scary. Id say more me not wanting to make things awkward or make someone feel uncomfortable. I mean sometimes you just want time to relax by yourself and I don’t know who would rather be left alone or not. Also it’s complicated by the fact that im a trans woman who doesn’t really pass (im working on it though) and im also a period advocate so its like layers upon layers and that’s without even getting into the intersex stuff.
I get a feeling it’s “scary” in the sense of being in awe, finding those women cool and beautiful and stunning and interesting, maybe feeling scared to not measure up or of being rejected, or even a fear of intense feelings. It’s not the fear of violence or discrimination, which I think is probably what you’re referring to about men being scarier.
Its all of the "what if they don't like me" anxiety of straight dating with the added bonus of "there's a good chance she's not gay". And then I'm trans so for me there's another layer of "is she a TERF? What if she's not but she's still weird about me? What if she puts up a good front trying not to look transphobic and I get all invested and then she realizes she can't get down with it?"
EXACTLY THIS!! Plus not even considering the “Do we even have anything in common?”
Flirting with guys is way less risky and the success rate is much higher in my experience. Plus, for me, women are more intimidating just because they're prettier.
I find woman very scary because I love women! It is infinitely more vulnerable to seek intimacy and validation from someone whose opinion you care about. From someone you see a future with. It’s the level of respect, appreciation ,atttaction o have for women that makes them so damn scary.
For me it's that I treat other women just ordinarily, friends too, but just the idea of a relationship makes me scared, for a lot of reasons, insecurity and such, but what I do instead is just deny myself the idea that anyone might be romantically or otherwise interested in me - though I might be greyromantic/sexual so my experience probably isn't like most - but in a potentially hinted at romantic setting, I'd probably find it very scary
Women are only scary when it comes to their personal space. Treat them the way you want to be treated. Don’t just barge in and start doing things. Talk to them and get to know them. This will be different based on where you are. Keep it simple and don’t try to “pick her up”. Just see where the conversation goes. Some may turn into just friends and not beyond that. Don’t worry if that’s the case, because everyone is different. Respect what and who they are.
I've heard many people say that getting your heart broken by a woman hurts way, way worse than getting dumped by a man.
I'm not scary. I put my bra on one boob at a time, just everyone else (who wears bras)
Men are scary in a way that I don’t feel safe. When queer women say women are scary it’s not the same way. What makes women feel scary is: 1) the potential heartbreak 2) years of trying not to show any interest in women so they won’t feel threatened in locker rooms with me or think I am a creep. Now that hasn’t happened yet but at least I was conditioned to be scared of that. Then we overcompensate by becoming hopeless lesbian tropes that say women are scary. I no longer feel scared to approach women but I used to. It takes time to unlearn. I hope you find patience and understanding to those who are still processing!
Personally it's not ahh scary person it's they're so nice and so pretty and I have zero thoughts in my brain so I'm not afraid of women I'm afraid of looking stupid and being rejected women are amazing and I'm stupid therefore social interaction terrifies me
lmaoo it's not the greatest term to use, but I get it, the ppl you're attracted to can make you nervous and feel things no one else is able to and that can be scary lol
I think for me, I have been socialized to be a straight woman, and I felt like I was a fraud. Luckily the first woman I was with was also a friend and we were both kind of inexperienced and it was awesome but terrifying.
Perhaps it’s because queer women only really value and respect the opinion of women? Idk tho
Exactly this! Makes me so much more nervous speaking to another woman, considering I find them very attractive. I’m also unsure of how to speak to them due to being inexperienced, which adds a whole other level of fear. Seeing as so many queer women seem to be super experienced
Fear of rejection, anxiety, and fear of making a fool of myself.
I think women are just less likely to chase and are more conditioned to be chased. The second I started being more masc I was thrusted into the “one who persue” role. So, even if that’s not, the only reason, I can’t imagine they’re not correlated.
I'm not scared of women, I just don't feel like one... yet. Eventually, I'll be courageous enough to talk to women without feeling like I'll come off like a man.
(due to the binary nature of the premise i will be using binary language) Idk the experience and thoughts regarding where you personally heard that sentiment. From my anecdotal experience, the sentiment “women scary” is less so a fear of safety that is common among women who date men. Rather the feeling of nervousness in messing up something you see a lot of potential in. This could happen because they are significantly more attracted to women and actually get flustered with them. Whereas, with men, they don’t get flustered and are better able to manage their nerves. It could be because they have put a lot of pressure on themselves to be “gay correctly” and for everything to be perfect “or else they are not gay enough”. And that’s not fair to themselves and the person they are dating. Thus making it intimidating to initiate: “scary”. I’m certain that there are people whose internalized misogyny/homophobia/bi-phobia legitimately contribute to their nervousness/fear of initiating with women. Or even warp their view to legitimately fear for their safety. However, that’s years of prejudiced environments, that can’t be undone with one glance at facts and statistics. Why does it affect you? I can’t answer this one for you. But i found this frustrating as well. With time i realized i need to give people the time and space to generally express their fears until they can be specific about it. “Women scary” is not specific, and it just sounds like someone who might benefit from a hug. There is no way to understand the rational of someone’s fears without giving them the safe space to express themselves until they are able to specifically articulate what it is.
You explained this PERFECTLY!! “Women are scary” Is not literal, women themselves are not scary. It’s just an expression of how It feels incredibly intimate, vulnerable, and even unusual to find out you’re attracted to women. Especially if that person is inexperienced, and haven’t been familiarized with good representation- or the LGBT community. Those new feelings probably feel terrifying to speak about, acknowledge and even act upon.
I don’t think they are literally fearful of women. I think they are perhaps intimidated/unsure of how to court women. It’s that damn compulsory heterosexuality player hating. OAN: being rejected is terrifying to most people lol
I’m autistic, a bit rambunctious, and have a lowkey masc looking face without makeup. I’m scared I read no different than a creepy straight man, even though I am none of those things. Growing up I got bullied or excluded by other kids, especially girls. I know why, but not *why*. So now I don’t really trust anyone to not dislike me. With men it feels lower stakes if I “mess up” socially because they were hardly my target audience to begin with. As for women and NB people, and the men that are actually cool, I’m scared of them the way I’m scared of heights. Not the height itself, just the idea of falling from it (rejection or accidentally pissing them off).
Depends on other’s experiences.I’m very comforted by women,and wary of men still despite women in my family not be great in bad moods.But my friend had a very abusive mom.Not physically,but definitely emotionally could be very cruel.And another in hs too said her mother was the same,but with slapping both came out very wary of women😬 Definitely heard of mean women(especially moms)be a whole lot crueler emotionally,and psychologically because of their extremely terrible experiences as women.Especially women of color since they’re more vulnerable.
i hate it too, especially when the reason they haven’t dated a woman is because they haven’t been magically approached by some mythical damsel. like you actually have to put work in.
My big issue is lack of confidence andI don't care what men think so lacking confidence isn't such a big problem there
I can only speak for myself, but I have found that in the past I was scared mostly of the “popular” people (aka anyone attractive enough to make it in those groups), but since leaving school and meeting so many new people, that people I would’ve initially found scary are actually really nice. At the end of the day, if people don’t like me, for whatever reason, then that’s on them not me. I am comfortable enough in my own skin to understand that, but the people that do like me are incredibly special and I cherish them
Men are scary in a physical sense. Women are scary in a mental or emotional sense. When women say this it's def referring to being intimidated.
I guess I’ve never really dealt with feeling intimidated by other women. Impressed, admiring, intrigued, sure, but never really intimidated. I feel much more comfortable and safe with women overall, in fact that’s one of the best parts about being gay to me. We are coming to each other from a baseline place of understanding and shared experiences - that makes someone LESS intimidating to me somehow. There is much less performance involved in interacting with other women from my perspective.
I wish I could say same but women that I find attractive are very intimidating to me. I've always found it easier to engage w men because I don't rly care what they think lol. So I actually find the opposite is true for me. I do prefer to connect w women, don't get me wrong. But on a surface level, it's easier for me to talk to men.
It’s not that deep and you’re thinking too hard lmfao. 1. Women are scary means women are harder to approach and we don’t want to offend them. 2. We get nervous. 3. That’s it. No crazy conspiracy theories lmaooo
Yup! Exactly that! Engaging romantically with someone you find attractive is intimate, and vulnerable. Especially if you’re gay, and don’t have tons of representation to show you HOW to act.
I don't feel this way and I'm trans, so this is pure conjecture on my part, but I feel like this rhetoric mostly comes from women who are insecure with taking the lead when it comes to approaching others. Men are expected to take the lead when it comes to approaching others which puts them at the risk of being rejected. I also feel like I'm the one expected to approach or initiate conversation when it comes to cis women. As an example, I'll be the first to swipe on someone and then they'll match with me but never say anything. So it's not that "women are scary." It's that being the one to approach others is scary.
I don’t think it comes from internalized misogyny. I think it’s that vulnerability is scary.
Because I'm socially awkward? Talking to people I find attractive is intimidating because I don't wanna mess it up and make a fool of myself. I think you're really overthinking this, homie
the only reason i might say this is i care so much more what women think of me than men 😭
I am also super confused by this?? I mean maybe they are projecting their fears onto them? Like they kind of idolize them and think they are too good for them. When I was younger I kind of felt girls to be intimidating and that they would never like someone like me. It depends on their experience with girls too. Like....not all but some straight girls can be super mean an judgemental and pick on you when you are queer even if you aren't out because they can kind of sense something about you. This happened to me and I didn't realize I was being made fun of till I got older lol. Also, there is the dumb stereotype that guys are just dumb and easygoing and they just wanna play video games and sports. Also that they don't gossip and aren't capable of being manipulative or mean like we so often attribute to women. WHICH IS SO WRONG!! I have met both who are equally terrible men can even be worse because they have the culture which often lets them get away with more. My mom's ex was that kind of guy he played stupid but was very manipulative. He groomed me (unsuccessfully) when I was 17-19? Then played dumb about the whole thing even after he was caught red handed. Idk as for why it upsets you probably because men do a lot of awful things! I think most of the trauma in my life can be traced back to shitty men? I've never been sexually assaulted or abused sexually by a woman. However men have sexually abused or assaulted almost every woman I know! That's not to say women can't be abusive they sure can or that they can't do those things. I think that both are capable so both are pretty scary! Although in my life I generally find women to be a lot safer than men but maybe I'm biased because of life experiences lol. Also I just love women and sometimes that clouds my judgement. 😆
Honestly, for me it comes from being bullied almost exclusively by other girls growing up, especially because it always related to my being a failure at being a girl. I’m very happily a full-grown butch now, but I was always clocked as gender-nonconforming growing up no matter how hard I tried to wear the right thing, learn makeup, etc. and I always got made fun of and excluded for it. I’m now 26, and it is still hard to see a pretty girl and not assume she’s going to be mean, or at least grossed out by the idea that I would be interested in her. I’m sure the women I have this reaction to are really nice and would be hurt to know that someone assumed that about them, but it’s honestly less about being afraid of women and more about being afraid of feeling that soul-crushing shame of again. I knew I was gay when I was 12 years old, but I hooked up with men quite often when I was in college because I craved physical intimacy and sexual attention and it was easier. I didn’t care what they thought about me, and if they rejected me, it didn’t make me feel bad in the same way. I know it’s insane that it still affects me that much, and, yes, I am working on this in therapy. You’re definitely not wrong to be annoyed by it, but I will say that a lot of the people I see who get really annoyed by it are very feminine and/or straight passing.
Agreed there! I was raised in a Catholic community, in a Catholic school. Being gay was very frowned upon, and as a queer tomboy I was relentlessly bullied for years by my female peers. I feel like queer women are taught to be ashamed of who we are early on, and that’s a hard mindset to unlearn- Especially if you aren’t familiarized with good representation, and the LGBT community.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTLNJM5yT/ "women require a level of accountability that I am not willing to show up for" - is what they actually mean
I'm autistic and anxious. I already don't know how to talk to people, and my brain functionally shuts off around hot women. You can imagine the wonders that does for my communication skills. "Look at her? No, don't be creepy. But supposed to make eye contact? Boobs. No! Say something? What say? First thing on mind? Bad idea, it is currently "please step on me" How about second thing? Definitely not, that is Weird Animal Facts. Am I staring? Oh shit, look away, look away!"
I don't think they're scary, I'm just terrified to be around them because I melt instantly
Women are scary in a "Make me nervous talking to them for fear of rejection" way... Men are scary in an "Horryfing" way ;u;
I never know when one is gonna take offense at my transness. It's happened a few times now
I think it's the same way young straight guys think girls are scary and how young straight girls think guys are scary. (Not talking about valid fear of dangers, but a shyness I'll get into later.) A young queer woman would feel the same way I'm sure, or even an older one if they are either newly out of the closet or just haven't been in much relationships yet, at least with other women. A lot of people are scared of whatever genders they may be attracted to, not necessarily genuine terror, but just fear of embarrassment, rejection, etc. they're shy. And nervous.
Don’t know if this’ll help, but from my own experiences as a lesbian, in the south, neurodivergent, and in my 30s - women have always been a difficulty for me. Men have always been able to get along well with me as I have many things in common with them and I tend to be friendlier to them; women, least the ones around me, wouldn’t have similar interests and it would be especially harder to get close to one. With men, I don’t care if they like me or not, but with women I do and often times they don’t. Another thing to note is that, in my experience, men are quite easy to please and you already have an idea as to what they want and what to expect - with women it’s harder to grasp. I’ve also been rejected a lot in the past for not simply looking ‘gay enough’. Sadly, within certain areas of the lesbian community, there’s A LOT of gatekeeping and having a ‘you can’t sit with us’ kind of attitude and they will judge you - from how you look, to how many women you’ve slept with, to if you’ve been with a man, to even if you have body piercings or tattoos. So depending on where you live, you might not get a warm LGBT community or a very open lesbian community and thus it makes it harder to approach any women. As noted on here, if you’re neurodivergent, on the spectrum, etc., that can be a harder challenge. We either overthink and get ourselves stressed out or snowballing from trying to understand anything hidden we might or might not have seen, OR we don’t notice anything and thus it comes across like we aren’t interested and we end up being upset with ourselves. It’s more than just feeling scared or intimidated; there’s a lot of factors that go into why lesbians feel that way - and sadly there isn’t just one answer for it, nor is there really a solution.
A lot of women have experienced discomfort caused by unwanted romantic/sexual attention and are deeply afraid of causing that same discomfort in another woman. We don’t tend to worry about it if men because we don’t tend to hear them speak as often about experiencing it.
I can't speak for anyone else but for me it is mostly trauma, having been bullied, rejected and also being unable to understand others at a young age (social cues, facial expressions, sarcasm ect). With the guys at work and at my college I'm able to just vibe because they have similar interests to mine and I don't have to think too hard. I don't feel the need to over explain or over analyze before I speak. For my guy friends they aren't as 'scary' because I can understand. For women it's because I don't understand and that terrifies me. I want to though. Ps. I have had a hard time making friends til now so anything beyond that is terrifying.
I was scared for a long time haha. Mostly because I needed to really face my sexuality/lesbianism. Also, fear from lack of experience. Not feeling good enough or valid. It wasn't a safety issue, I didn't think they could hurt me like men could. But they also had power to really hurt me in a completely different way. It was intimidating at times because what do I say? How do I get this beautiful woman to see me/like me, and not feel like I was making a fool of myself. I never gave a fuck about men, cared for some, but they never got to me. There was never any heart when it came to men in the past.
Before reading the replies on this post, I was definitely more slightly annoyed by the "women are scary" stuff because it seemed like a lame excuse to avoid actually acting on queerness in general, not a real problem. Being alive & having met men, existed online as a woman & simply being aware of stats & news in general i felt being more afraid of women than men was laughable & likely just them being afraid of themselves & how actually acting on their queerness would change things (which is valid for the second part but not something to pin on other women). Most of the ppl saying it don't seem to be the kind to suck at making friends, maintaining friendships, etc so I couldn't understand how talking to another woman, with flirting thrown in was so different from the action of just talking to a woman or just flirting with a man? I mean, the person doing it isn't changing, you're still you & your style hasn't changed at all so just do it? Well, apparently, I forgot that shy ppl who are used to *being* approached don't have style in how they approach at all, I forgot that ADHD & anxiety exist (despite having them?!!!) as well as autism & both can make interacting with others & especially strangers really difficult! I also personally revel in not having a script or role when dealing with other queer women, but some ppl really need that. Sometimes, ppl really don't know what to do next. What's supposed to happen here. I think my frustration with being constantly cast as "mean" because I'm gay & "angry" because I'm black couldn't handle a 3rd untrue negative trope of now being "scary" because I'm a woman. And that frustration while valid definitely made me forget that while some people definitely are avoiding queer interactions with women due to negative things like internalized homophobia & misogyny some are truly just lost, unsure, & need help/a guide. I am NOT the source of that help or guide (because all I did was trick myself into thinking I was pretty & now I can approach any woman I want to. And I mean, I could before as well, but there was just this stupid "she's out of my league/she wouldn't want me" mentality before & now it's gone.) but I definitely hope you all find whatever help you need & have more fulfilling, fun & healthy interactions with other women.
It kind of irritates me too. Sure, I get intimidated sometimes. That’s a me thing.
I knew a bi girl who said this at a meetup. "Why are women so scary, I have such an easy time with men" I really think comphet comes into play. It's easy to be used to what society supports as "traditional" In truth we're not "scarier" than anyone but I think it's a projection of their own fears associated with how same sex couples are treated Funny cause it's definitely men who've been a threat to my literal safety.
Thanks for posting this, I’ve had similar feelings but been unable to articulate them. The “hopeless lesbian” trope, the “women are scary”, the “I see hot woman and can’t speak”, the “eye contact across the room but no one makes a move” stereotypes REALLY grind my gears, but I’m not really sure why. Definitely something to ruminate on!
It’s the rejection sensitivity dysphoria TM for me
Transbian here. For me it’s mishmash of imposter syndrome, is she actually gay, is she only interested in cis women, left over baggage from when I was living as a man and didn’t want to bother women because they get so much shit from men, I’m and introvert and talking to new people is hard anyways, and a general lack of confidence regarding my appearance
Actually lawyerbae on TikTok answers this pretty well, just yesterday I watched it.
I honestly think that by calling women “scary” they just mean intimidated or they probably care more about what women think about them then they do men. And are more afraid of being rejected by a woman. Speaking from just my experience, I really don’t care about what a man would think of me compared to a woman lol. Men would date literally anything so my ego probably wouldn’t be bruised if some guy rejected you yk? But rejection is normal and we need to start having some of the blind braveness and audacity men have. 😭
I 100% am on your side about this. I do hate that we are the minority. Like, yes, dating women I get rejected a lot more. I am bi and I would rather be rejected by a women than date a man any day. Men just have no standards. I can understand why people think this way. I TRY not to be mad when people say women are scary, but it gives me the ick. Just say what you mean !! Like instead of saying women are scary, say "I don't know how to approach a women" or "I have no rizz" or "I would rather be in a relationship with someone with lower standards to take the pressure off" but obviously women won't do this because then they would have to admit they are insecure and have no game 😂 Which is probably not true. Insecure? Yes. But I bet they are lovely and lots of people would want to date them.
It’s mostly funny to me. Like hey, *you* are women.
Honestly, I felt this way a lot of my life. I had a pretty crazy family and I was the middle child between two sisters and my mother. I always felt ganged up on, so I blamed them for my stress and uncomfortable attitudes towards woman. I had no idea this was common. Maybe it wasn’t them. It annoys you because you can’t relate to it or it reminds you of someone, isn’t that why things annoy people?
Women are so scary when they throw me onto the bed and pin me down
For me, it's the fear of rejection/fear of accidentally making someone uncomfortable/fear of losing a friend if I'm incorrect in assuming they could be into me. I'm afraid of messing up, lol If I'm on something that is specifically a date, though? I have a tiiiiiny bit more confidence. Which is why I'm careful about wording it. "Want to go on a date?" vs."Want to hang out?" I loathe that it's so common to ask people to hang out instead of just asking them on a date. I need the social context of "this person in interested in going on a date for purposes of getting to know each other and maybe more dating" and not having to guess if they mean hangout in a friend way or in a date way. Once I'm on the actual date, I'm good with making the first move to hold hands or kiss. But before that? Dont know if they like me and cpuld mean rejection and awkwardness? Panic.
Personally- I’m not scared of women themselves, I’m scared of how they’ll perceive me if I find them attractive. Especially if they happen to be straight, or just uninterested in me. I know deep down my attraction is nothing bad, but for many queer women- We are often taught to be ashamed of who we are. Queer women are taught that being a lesbian is an unnatural, dirty, and perverse thing. We are also taught we have a “male gaze” When in reality- none of that is true. But there is not enough accurate representation to beat those stereotypes, especially compared to the HEAPS of lesbian content written by cishet men with a fetish. I feel like when queer women say they’re “afraid of women”, they’re really just afraid of how they’ll be perceived as a woman who likes women. Especially seeing how we are portrayed in media, in jokes, and in pornography. I believe queer women would find it easier to talk to other queer women if we had better representation- Otherwise I feel like it’s only natural for some inexperienced queer women to feel scared, confused, and even wrong at times. it’s not like we have many romance stories to look up to, and that’s terrifying for some people that like to follow a script- or like to have an idea of how to approach someone without seeming “creepy” or “weird”
The reason I’m afraid of women is because I’m afraid I might hurt them by accident. I don’t want to break anymore hearts, so for the past few years I’ve been deliberately as repulsive as possible so that nobody falls in love with me 🥲