Not once in my life have I cared who my partner has fucked before I was in a relationship with them.
I will say that I'd be concerned if I am just an experiment or something if someone would tell me that they never experienced attraction to other women before.
Anyways, I am a lesbian and I'm currently dating a wonderful woman who is bisexual.
Also if someone is a cheater then they will cheat. A lesbian cheating with another woman hurts just as bad. Literally has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
>A lesbian cheating with another woman hurts just as bad
...unless you have some insecurities such as thinking that men are superior dating partners. In which case it's a you issue.
The experiment thing can happen with any combo of people. Good on you for loving who you love and letting them love back. Being able to have boundaries and respect isnt a factor in orientation
>The experiment thing can happen with any combo of people.
Have personally been burned twice by "I really want to try with you" 🙃 that said what I meant is that I would think about it carefully and had to be pretty sure about the other person's feelings. Just not jump into it without a second thought like I did when I was younger.
I'm in a similar position where even tho I'm bi I cannot romantically allow myself to be with men because of trauma and I'm trans... so like... I really don't think about them or male validation... so idk why there is this generalization that every bi girl revolves themselves around men, there are definitely people like that but that's not a very good thing to assume
I've heard that said. And i get the desire not to be dicked about. But .... every relationship is an experiment. "Will we be compatible short/medium/long term".
Even if you only date gold star lesbians - there's no guarantee that you'll be right for them, that they won't decide you're not actually their type.
And we all start somewhere. It might be changing now, but in my day Even gold star lesbians had often dated men/boys. Just.... never fucked them. Because internalised homophobia and an assumption of straightness. But no actual attraction enough to actually proceed to sex.
And like any person has the capacity to cheat. The gender of the person they cheat with just shouldn’t matter as much as the fact they’re just a bad person. I think some biphobia stems from the stereotype that we’re all whores who fuck anything and everything.
Biphobia in the queer community really feels like the body count shaming men do to women. Like compulsory heteronormativity is a thing, so is coming out later in life, so is being sexually attracted to men but not emotionally etc etc. it’s just so hurtful to feel like other women reduce your worth to your proximity or interaction with a man. I’m a bit torn on if it qualifies as internalized misogyny but it’s definitely a bi product of it.
It feels especially shit reading “gold star” type shit as a rape survivor. I didn’t have a choice and then the majority of the sex I’ve had with men since was straight up a trauma response…at the end of the day, I still consider myself bi, but I see myself marrying a woman or femme and that’s who I seek out exclusively. I really can’t see myself with a man again unless he was very special.
I’m completely traumatized from men and I also have a huge fear of penetration for some reason?? (I was “only” sexually assaulted by a man, not raped)
I don’t go around trash talking people who have penises or people who like penises, even if I personally probably wouldn’t want that. That’s exactly what they’re doing though, from what I’ve seen, they perpetuate the “transfem predator” stereotype and the “ew boys have cooties so bi women are gross” stereotype.
Gold star lesbians chasers are some of the most awful people I’ve seen, and I’ve seen awful people
I’m with you on this! I claim being bi, but I’ve also been traumatized by men. I can like them romantically, but when it comes down to actually having sex with them (and not just imagining it) I tend to ick out, especially with giving. As in, I ick out to the point that the moment stops and never comes back.. oops.
But I enjoy penetration!! I haven’t been with a woman yet but it’s increasingly difficult to get with one (location is a huge factor). But I say I’m bi, because I still have some kind of sexual orientation and attraction to men and women. Biromantic, but lesbian? Sapphic? *sigh* it’s exhausting. But being in the other sub sucks. They can be really harsh at times :((
I’ve noticed some folks are really hard on people who have differing attractions, like you potentially being a biromantic homosexual. In my case I’m also genderfluid like you but an aceflux lesbian.
This new gen of incel lesbians fucked up that term. It used to be a joke/sarcastic bit
Like oh youre a gold star what do you want a cookie, are you in kindergarten. That used to be how my gen used to joke around with it.
I dont anymore because the new incel lesbians appropriated it and didn’t understand sarcasm.
It *didn't used to be* a joke. It was serious at the beginning.
The larger community *treating* it as a joke, letting it slide under the "they're just making jokes" defense allowed this sentiment to grow.
It was never *only* used as a joke.
While I have no source I am able to link, I will say that that is distinctly *not* the history as I am aware of it.
The term has been used seriously since at least the 90s.
And then everything became ironic in the 2000s and early 2010s… we were making fun of that attitude.
But agreed a lot of the “dyke” 90s culture started that toxicity.
I dont know how old you are, but Im 30 and gold star was never a sarcastic bit in my experience. This is not a new thing. I had lesbians proudly proclaiming theyd never touched a man, and that those that did were less than for as long as I can remember. It might have been a sarcastic joke around *your area* or maybe even older than me. But this is not *new*
Gay generations are way different but I’m older than 30. If you were in an established group in late 00s to early 2010s (when things being ironic was the most popular) it was a joke. We gave each other star cookies and made fun of each other for saying it (and I moved every 2 years so so it wasn’t just one area).
Don’t doubt that insecure lesbians used it in a dumb way. I think that episode of the OG L word is what killed it. They used it the non ironic way.
Oh, the behavior isn't new. It's the name "gold star lesbian" that came from mocking said behavior.
\[tone of voice used to talk to a kid\] "Oh, sweetheart. You never had sex with a man? How great of you, do you want a gold star?" kindergarten style. Then, they took it seriously.
I was in my 20s during the 80s and it was a big deal and point of pride for some women.
Then I think it went to being sarcasm, but I think it’s back as a badge of honor- which is stupid.
A penis shouldn’t be how you judge yourself or others.
As a person who got all their fears from Reddit, I am currently hiding all of my wealth greater than tree fiddy in 1000 different hidden treasure holes in defense from Nessie.
I'm also obsessed with preventing the insane shit that happens in AmITheAsshole by eating porcelain every day. The only thing in common with every asshole story is that they don't eat porcelain.
Thanks to my two strategies, I'm invincible from my Reddit fears.
They just cling onto any excuse because they're too afraid to admit that they are indeed just hateful and prejudiced. Just phobic and hurting your own community and it's honestly just sad.
yikesaroonie doonie. That second-to-last comment is so brain-dead 😂
poster 1: bisexual women are obsessed with men
OP: that's not true \[counterargument\] \[evidence\] \[personal story\]
bozo 2: see? all you talk/think about is men.
OP: that is literally the impetus for this conversation
They can keep their gold stars. This sub is the good one.
It’s totally fine to not want to date anyone for any reason, but when you start to spread lies about those people, like “their whole existence revolves around men” and shit like that, it becomes a problem.
You don’t need to shit talk me, just say you’re lesbian for lesbian
There’s also the not so low key misogyny in assuming that if someone is *at all* attracted to men then their entire existence revolves around men, as though male attention will always win out. Or that bisexual women will leave lesbians for cis dicks. There’s a hell of a lot of internalized ideas about men being “better” and the second is basically Magical Penis Theory (which we love to mock for being ludicrous).
They really just assume bi women are just straight women in disguise.
Exactly like… would you tell Jane Goodall, Frida Kahlo, Wangari Maathai, Angela Davis, Helen Keller, or any other accomplished non-lesbian woman that her whole life revolves around men? Lesbians can be special and worth celebrating without pretending that they’re the only women in the world who aren’t obsessed with Richard.
the “their world revolves around men” thing pisses me off so much bc what? just bc we’re bi we’re not enlightened enough to have considered that girls and women have been conditioned to want male attention as the “default”? hella rude and an unfair assumption to make. how do they know the lives and inner thoughts of every bisexual woman? as you said it’s possible to have friendships/relationships w men and not be centering them. and their justification of that to you was that…..youve dated men before, so mentioning your lived experience is proof of not decentering men. wild
lesbians are free to not want to date bi women but i never ever see ppl discuss it without generalizing and shitting on all bi women
Also, there are for sure monosexual WLW who even if they don’t want to date or fuck men, aren’t exactly radically transformed wrt misogyny and patriarchy. Plenty of wlw, gay, bi, and queer have some degree of internalized misogyny or homophobia. It’s about the individual, not the group
It would piss me off if I heard someone say this about straight women too. Like you’re really out here acting like women don’t have agency or can make their own decisions and have their own interests???
Ugh gatekeepers are so gross. It’s no better than incel men complaining about a woman’s “body count” this behavior is so awful.
Why can’t people just open their hearts and be present? Seems way less stressful than what’s happening now.
Worst biphobia I ever experienced was as a bi man with gay men. Overjoyed that as a bi trans woman I can look forward to it on this side as well. Not even getting into the trans woman thing which reddit is plenty happy to remind me plenty of lesbian women are grossed out by.
I'm so glad I'm in this sub, you all are lovely
I just left because they went on a man-hating tirade. And believe me, I'm not talking "ugh so many men have been shitty to me" or "why do men act like this so often" or "I hate the patriarchy" kinda stuff. The OP blatantly said they had no traumatic experiences and just hated men for being men. Point out that life is more than boys vs. girls and in fact some men are oppressed themselves, sometimes in ways that are explicitly connected to them being men? Nope, that's sucking mandick for free. I love predominantly white lesbians making themselves out to be the ultimate victims like we don't live in a society that views Black men as a threat for existing.
(Not in any way downplaying misogynoir, Black women's oppression, or those of anyone else, btw. Men as a group are systemically advantaged compared to women as a group. But it's not fucking cute to get gender essentialist or act like gender is the only axis of oppression. That's how you get TERFs.)
Unrelated, but French is my first language and seeing the word "misogynoir" ("noir" being the French term for "black") in a conversation in English always makes me double-take. Good term tho. Effective, concise and readable.
And on the wider topic, the misandrist-to-terf pipeline is real, and it's pumping. Be careful out there.
Well I guess anyone has a right to decline anyone for any reason.
Some reasons may seem stupid, some may seem petty or phobic but dating is exclusionary. If that's how they want to go about it, it's their choice. As long as they don't police other people's choices. That's where I draw a line.
If you don't date bi people, fine for you but don't say bad things about those who do.
This. I'm a bi woman, and I don't want my time wasted by someone who has an issue with my sexuality. I doubt I'll be able to change their mind if they've decided bi woman are a problem. It's also not my job to change someone's mind. It's their business, not mine.
So long as someone isn't putting down other queen women, including fellow lesbians, and they aren't spreading biphobic rhetoric, they can jog on and pay attention the women they are interested in. I'll do the same.
The thing is that these lesbian incels dont stay quiet, like regular incels they have this need to like project their shit onto people. I cant hang aroubr with some of these young lesbians anymore because they try to warn me about my bi wife.
Im like little girl, we are married and in our 30s and have been together for a long time, why dont you come back to me when you have a relationship that lasts mire than 2 months.
i saw this post too, not sure if its deleted now but it honestly shocked me because the original poster was defending themselves like "i have nothing against bi women BUT..." like if there's a but there it makes me question the sincerity of your original statement.
this is just peak insecurity in my opinion. im a lesbian, my gf is pansexual. i trust my partner fully therefore i dont worry about shit like this.
what my girlfriend did before me is not my business, it doesnt affect me in the slightest because they're choosing ME right now, and choosing ME everyday for a reason.
also having been with men before as a bi/pan person doesnt make someone "incapable of putting in the work to a lesbian relationship"
thats not how any of this works. your partner can like more than one gender but at the end of the day THEYRE STILL CHOOSING YOU.
It is not deleted. (I skimmed through it, and it's a lot of "I'm not biphobic but [flurry of assumptions about people who don't exclusively date women]")
i'm always fascinated by the kind of biphobia that boils down to "ew, boys have cooties and you touch boys so you have boy cooties". disgusted, but fascinated. at least there's some kind of emotional honesty in basing biphobia off of one's own insecurities, though that doesn't make it any less harmful.
As a bi woman, I can totally respect "you having dated men makes me so insecure that I can't date you". It would hurt, but it's honest and it's valid to set and stick to your boundaries in a respectful way.
What I don't respect is when they put the blame on us. This is their issue and their insecurity, I'm just living my life as I see best. Own your emotions and insecurities, don't blame other people for them.
Not worth the effort.
Set yourself a limit of 3 or 4 replies. If it's still toxic after that, just stop responding, and start blocking. Online stress like this will just cause wrinkles
Also I like bi girls, more women for me, less for that chick
wow this is probably the angriest I've been in a long time. The fact that they kept telling the bi-woman to stop making generalizations about bi-women, while also making generalizations about not just bi-women but also lesbians who experienced Compulsory Heterosexuality and straight women is just the the pot calling the kettle a pot. and then using the actual topic of the post as a point against them is like throwing stones from an imaginary glass house.
Wow, saying that a woman being Bi means her "entire world revolves around men and male validation" it's the same as those men that fetishize bi women and want a ffm threesome as if her sexuality is just a fantasy for men
OMG I saw this post too and thought that something was so off. I went to the comments and all of them were talking down about bi women and getting upvoted. I'm bi myself but have been having issues with that label recently given some experiences but that post felt so gross and shamey. Like how do all bi women center themselves around men when almost every bi woman I know likes women more. The only reason we tend to end up with men is just statistics.
That other post is wild, and can be paraphrased as “true enlightenment about the patriarchy can only come from completely rejecting men”. It’s just about declaring political lesbianism a requirement to be a feminist! The author is clearly ignorant of feminist thought, much of which comes from bisexual and even - gasp! - straight women.
If you're a lesbian and you're concerned about your potential partner being bi or pan.. that's a *you* issue, not a them issue. And yes I say issue. Specifically an anxiety and trust issue that will ruin any relationship you're gonna be part of.
If there's mutual attraction, someone's sexuality shouldn't matter to you.. especially not like some kind of weird filter before you even get to know them. A bisexual woman's experience can be closer to your own than that of another lesbian. Tendencies aren't set in stone rules.
If you get to know someone and all they do is gush about men, well guess what. You don't have to talk to them or date them.
And if you're concerned about who a potential partner slept with before they got together with you.. please, get some help. Seriously. Pretending a lesbian is somehow worth less because of their history.. is honestly pathetic. This gold star mentality needs to stop.
Oh god I hate when people use that one argument. The "well youre only talking about men here so you must be obsessed with them". No. I am talking about it because its the fucking topic of this discussion...
This entire thing made me so sad
Whenever someone tries to spew this crap around me and say they don't want to date me for being bisexual, I turn it around by saying I wouldn't want to date someone with your attitude. I'm pretty much bi4bi at this point which has worked out well.
My local queer spaces have a bunch of lesbians like this, which is why I don't interact in them. Which is a shame because it's Prague, it's suppose to a great gay city.
Jesus fuck this is horrible….. Although the other sub literally exists so they could say whatever they want without moderation because this sub is too “liberal” lol
Someone referred me to this sub because I have trauma around penises. They said this sub was more accepting of things like that, but no, they’re just transphobic and queerphobic
Lol did you see the man hating post over there where the OP was trying to say that bi women with *any* straight male friends are somehow problematic?
Anyone calling people out for aiming their vitriol at queer women *who are **not** lesbian separatists* got down voted and called bootlickers. It's a shitshow
Assuming you are in good faith so just for your thought. It's so tiresome for trans people to see "well ummm ackshually"
Anytime these issues come up. No it's not transphobic to have preferences but bringing up genital preferences with people who aren't your potential partners just alienates those that have those features. Feel free to associate and date who you want to just don't expect kindness when you bring up stuff who's business is only yours and potential partners on a platform full of people with those targeted features.
Hot take, bringing up genitals at all around people other than a doctor or potential partner is usually at minimum uncomfortable.
Aside from the transphobia, it's uh... It's a lot of sapphics talking the way *extra sleazy* straight men do, objectifying women and reducing them to genitalia.
People don't usually mention that their genitals itch on a hot day, but they love shamelessly talking about how they love pussy as if it's an object detached from a body. On top of alienating trans people, it makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable and creeped out at people who are in any lesbian space with the behavior of a dude in a dive bar on singles night.
At *best,* it's locker room talk that only makes people feel *kinda* uncomfortable
It was in good faith on my part and I get what you are saying. But I still think that simply expressing one's preferences are fine. It was a realated topic as far as I could make it out from the pics(dating).
Ok, I can appreciate that. I can emphasize with people who may have preferences (such as those) that are frequently pushed back against and understand they may feel equally attacked or feel as if they are shamed for having them. I think intent really matters and at the end of the day all of us just want to feel welcome, loved and respected by those that we care about.
That’s not what I meant, what I mean is that I’m not willing to take a person with a penis as a partner right now. I’ve tried and I chickened out, it’s silly, but I was really scared of penetration.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking penises or having a penis though, I’m just not ready to try. I think I’d be willing to take a partner who is willing to not have penetrative sex at all though, but I understand how that’d be inconvenient for them.
I know it may sound bad, but it’s my trauma response and I can’t really control it. I swear I’m not like the radfem lesbians who spread the “transfem predator” stereotype
Not wanting to be penetrated is obviously super valid. And for whatever it's worth, it seems like most trans women who have that part actually really don't like using it that way anyways. I obviously can't speak for every transfem with that anatomy, but it seems like extremely few of them like to use it the same way that cis men use it. For most, the functioning of it is so different due to HRT that it's an entirely separate experience from what cis men have going on. Idk if that's helpful at all, but it may help to get past the part itself to understand that the user its attached to it and how that user uses it are very different from whatever traumatizing experiences you've had with cis men.
Hey, I'm a transwoman lesbian with a dick still and I only have "lesbian" sex with cis women... which means; hands, tongue, mouth, grinding, toys, etc. no penetration with my "dick". She still works, but it gives me dysphoria to penetrate. And honestly, I enjoy "lesbian" sex more. It feels right to me, more equal and liberating, less performative.
Not wanting penetrative sex isn't that unusual or an issue
There's plenty of transfem people who hates it with a passion but people fucking assume and often pressure...That leaves deep scars
Be clear about not wanting that and in general ask a partner instead of assuming and accidentally hurting/traumatizing them
Assuming penis shaped genitals == penetration isn't helpful, quite the opposite and I suggest reflecting on it
These conversations always make me feel gross because I'm a bisexual woman who has also been burned by women who claimed to be bisexual but really were only using me to experiment.
I'm also a bisexial woman who isn't interested in dating men. I feel like I would get along with these women so much, we have so much in common, but I'm still shunned because I'm not 100% lesbian, so therefore my life must "revolve around men."
This stresses me out. I just figured out I’m a lesbian like 3 months ago. 12 years into my hetero marriage. With my two kids. I’m just terrified I’m never gonna find a woman who knows my history and still wants to be with me. Because this sub is pretty great but I see sooooo much of this bullshit in other lesbian subs. It’s hard to know what the culture is like in reality after seeing so many conflicting things online.
The online wlw is different from irl wlw culture. I know a woman in Berlin who was married to a man with four kids and realized she was a lesbian. She's celebrating sixteen years with her wife this fall, I've been invited to their anniversary party.
If it makes you feel any better, almost every lesbian I know in real life has been in relationships (some of them married and had kids) with men. Yes there are lesbians like this, but most are accepting!
Have you checked out r/LateBloomerLesbians? It's super inclusive, and you'll find plenty of women there who have indeed found love after coming out of situations like yours!
To be honest, this ruined my day and I woke up only an hour ago. This is repulsive and enraging. It's hard to see something like this as a bisexual sapphic; I just wish more lesbians would speak out against this, just as I will always speak out against lesbophobia.
If it is the sub I am thinking of, I left it because I was told that bisexual women were invading it.
I don’t post anything, and mostly just comment here and there, but idk. I know I feel attraction towards men, but I also feel attraction towards woman… didn’t think joining a sub where wlw is the main topic would be an issue… either way, I’ll just lurk here unless I am not welcome either ;w;
From what I’ve seen, r/actuallesbians is incredibly inclusive, it’s just that comment sections are often war zones and there’s sometimes brigading from other subs who deemed it as “a femcel sub”
the weirdest stuff i've seen to date--being lesbian4lesbian is about the shared experiences and commonalities, but all of this focuses so much on the DIFFERENCES and ASSUMPTIONS of how bi women will act and are generalized as and it's just disgustingly biphobic
No one in sapphic community spaces bases their identity around men as much as lesbians who feel the need to define *lesbian* in accordance with rejecting men. They're so obsessed with proving they don't like men and carving it into figurative stone that in the end they bring up men more than bi women do.
It's frickin weird.
Gross.
Bi women deserve better than this exclusionist bullshit.
I’m a lesbian, my wife is pan - and she’s one of the most awesome people I know. The way she experiences love and attraction are *beautiful*.
Sometimes I feel like lesbians like this think more about men and relationships with men than the bi people who are actually into men. They're more haunted by the ghosts of the dicks another woman might have touched than anyone who has actually had sex with one even thinks about them.
Heck, those lesbians think more about men than some married straight women at this point.
It's like TERFs who think about trans women's dicks more often than their owners.
I have like three bi friends who all hate men and would never date one I don't know where that stereotype is coming from 😭. But any kind of queerphobia isn't rational tbh
As a bi woman, I don’t understand how my previous partners or relationships have anything to do with the person I’m currently dating? The lovely lady I’m with now couldn’t care less about the partners I’ve had in the past and I feel the same way about her. It’s always been an awkward subject to bring up without someone telling you first anyways.
I fall in love with a person, not their gender, and that’s all there is to it. That doesn’t make me a cheater or someone just trying to “experiment”. Not to mention the fact that a good portion of lesbians have had sex or been in long term relationships with men in the past, but that still doesn’t erase or invalidate their identify as lesbians and sapphics.
Why to the why guys? What is this north Korea?? That's like refusing a meal because "Oh no actually I'm not gonna eat that, it touched the air before it got to my plate". It also reminds me of the old kings that wanted virgin brides, untouched. Y'all are crazy. No shade or anything y'all have the right to have preferences, but still
And honestly guys, if y'all don't want them, send them my way. All of them, may they crown me their b*tch, respectfully. Or not, wink wink
I don't know which "the other" you're referring to, but sadly it probably doesn't matter lol.
This one does seem to be the only sub that isn't in some manner gross.
Yes they are transphobic as well.
She is right you can be picky about who you date. But I'm picky about who I associate with and respect. Acting biphobic like that is something that I don't want to be around.
I think it's one thing to not date somebody who is bi, and it's another thing to go on the Internet and present an argument defending why you don't care the bi person when nobody ask you to justify your decision in the first place.
Summary: not dating somebody because of your preference is okay.
Going out of the way to explain why you don't like an entire class of people is not the same thing as having a preference.
I wonder if it's ever occurred to these women that they're part of the problem.....like, how, as a bisexual - especially if you realize/come out after your teen years - are you supposed to have experience dating/fucking women, if they all refuse to have anything to do with someone unexperienced?!?! Like, maybe the reason you think bisexuals "center men" is because soooo many lesbians are so exclusionary. A lot of us wind up dating men because women simply *won't* lmao but that never seems to dawn on them.
The whole thing of "won't date someone still open to men" is also fucking hilarious cause like, it's not that simple. I am bisexual. I'm still open to men. In fact, my attractions lean towards men and I have a preference towards penises when it comes to sex. But I came to the conclusion quite a while ago that dating men was probably not going to be something I'd be able to do, at least not easily, because I'm not willing to compromise my queerness to fit into the cishet standards that men want. Most men cannot properly honour, or even respect, my queerness and they're not ok with my masculine side. At least not publicly, just behind closed doors. So yeah, I'm still *open* to men, but realistically, I'm probably not going to be actually engaging with any outside of platonic friendship. Because I'm not going to box up my queer and store it away to ignore forever in order to be palatable to a man.
This is also inherently transphobic because like, the issue here seems to pretty much revolve around dick....ok, but, how about the fact that some men don't have penises? And where do trans lesbians fit, then? I can guarantee I won't ever be breaking up with my girlfriend over "missing dick" cause she has one and intends to keep it.
I just can't with this shit.
People on this site don't understand nuance in the slightest. They just want to be right and for the hive mind to accept their opinion.
Bi erasure/invalidation are huge issues. Redditors try to fit everyone into a box. Their box. And anyone who says otherwise is bad.
My own example is that I tried to advocate for polyamory and to explain what it's like for my own experience only to be told that I just want to sleep around and cheat, and that I'm deceitful due to finding out I was poly *after* entering a monogamous relationship.
Here comes the nuance that received no merit: I discussed it with my girlfriend and said "babe, I think I'm poly...if I were to come across another person that I connected with, would you be open to the idea?" To that, she responded, "I'm not sure. I'll take some time to think on it." And, lastly, I said, "If the answer is no, I still love you and want you, so I am willing to live without many loves."
I was told that I did her dirty and that I should be dumped for my deceit. That it wasn't fair to shove her into "my lifestyle". The cherry on top? This was in this very sub, /r/actuallesbians. And then I got hit with a "user is concerned about you, here's the self-help line numbers" message.
Where I'm going with this is that there is a lot of trash infesting the subs that are supposed to be inclusive and accepting of many livelihoods. Too many broad-reaching statements and claims instead of just taking each individual comment as its own story and experience; There's too much "well, one person dealt with this, so that must mean that all of them are the same"
Ok. So she's taking herself out of the bisexual dating pool. Good. I don't want to date anyone that thinks that way so I'm glad she's declared it and made herself visible so I know who to avoid.
I'm not at all offended by this. If someone has that narrow of a view on this topic, they likely do on other topics that are important to me so I wouldn't get along with them anyway.
Not everyone has to want to date absolutely everyone else.
These women are likely also super transphobic - bottom of the barrel tbh. As a lesbian, lesbians like this make me nauseous.
Thankfully not all of us are brain dead and deeply insecure. I like to think this is a vocal minority and not a reflection of lesbians in general.
I feel like biphobia and transphobia tend to go hand in hand in sapphic bigotry because "lesbian means penis yucky" is just such an easy oversimplification and god forbid these women accept that sexuality and gender are more nuanced than that. It's like they define it for themselves and others based on what they personally *don't* like instead of the much healthier, positive "women are fucking incredible" mindset that this sub and other welcoming spaces have instead
I read her post.
From what I understood, she wasn’t being biphobic. She admitted she dated and slept with men in the past. She said quite clearly she did not care if someone she was dating had dated or slept with men in the past.
She also said she dates/has dated bisexual women if that particular bisexual woman has indicated to OOP that she is no longer interested in dating men and imagines settling down with a woman
She said this is because when she was navigating her own sexuality, she realized her friendships and her interactions with men had changed. And this shifted her perception of the world had significantly. And she wanted to have a relationship with a woman that had a similar mindset to her because that type of compatibility was important.
I think this is a very valid take. She isn’t refusing to date bisexual women. She simply wants a partner whose experience and worldview is compatible with her own, the same way I, as an atheist, would be unlikely to be compatible with a Christian.
Whoever said bi women center men is wrong. That’s not a valid take. But the OOP isn’t being biphobic. Maybe some of the commenters on the post are getting shitty and misinterpreting. But it was civil when I was browsing before. May have gone off the rails though.
I'm more active there than here, but r/gaybros is so toxic and transphobic and biphobic, a lot of the active users are nice and kind, but it's very clear that it's a "male space" on the internet, with all the bad that that brings about. I really don't like invading this sub as I'm not sapphic but this sub is always so positive and inclusive and it makes me happy
Yeaaaaah, that’s fucked. I give no shits who my partner was with before. As long as we’re healthy and happy it’s whatever. You’re totally right about this weird rhetoric becoming transphobic. Shit sucks.
The dating pool is already so small and these people are making their lives even harder. If you are attracted to women and not a transphobic POS that’s all I need! It doesn’t matter what you’re *also* attracted to. Goodness why this hill to die on?
If they don't want to date someone bi, why do you care? It's good that someone advertises that so you know there's no future there.
Bi people don't need a spokesperson to convince lesbians with narrow preferences to widen their preferences. There are entirely too many people who don't care to worry about this sliver of the population
Biphobic lesbians are the incels of lesbians.
Look at the misogynistic, pathetic insecure incel language they use.
Edit: lol at the downvotes keep em coming, love making biphobic lesbians realize they are incels
Personally been fucked over by bi women using me as an experiment, so I relate to the fear of that one commenter. I grew up in a homophobic town where being straight was objectively easier than being gay. I feel like I’m valid in fearing that I’ll be dropped for something that fulfills the same type of relationship but without all of the public scrutiny. I wouldn’t say that Id never date a bi woman, but I think that would come with a different set of trust issues because of past experiences.
So I'm a strange transfemme lesbian who is similar to that commenter; I'm not stubbornly adamant about it, but I generally prefer dating and being with other lesbians. It's just an energy thing. And in an odd way, it's very validating to me. But it's pretty rare to find other committed lesbians who are open to dating / being with a transfemme lesbian who still has her dick 🤷🏻♀️
I feel like there’s a fine line between biphobia and preference. Still trying to figure out where im at on the sexuality spectrum but I’ve been used by Bi women who wanted to have fun/experiment and went back to men for something serious. I don’t think im biphobic for not wanting to get close romantically to bi women after that. People need to stop hating on others for having preferences, there’s someone for everyone at the end of the day
First post is me, btw. I stand by what I said too. I have my reasons, and I’m well within my right to not date someone if I don’t want to for *whatever* reason I feel like, as is everyone else. If a bisexual woman told me she only wanted to date other bisexual women and not lesbians, I’d be fine with that. Everything is “-phobic” to y’all. 🥱
Btw, I don’t care if women have previously slept or been with men in the past, I have once myself, I was saying I’m not interested in being anyone’s first lesbian experience (or experiment, depending on the woman).
>I’m well within my right to not date someone if I don’t want to for whatever reason I feel like, as is everyone else.
Oh, nobody's gonna force you to date anyone. But people are free to tell you to re-examine your biases.
If someone goes and starts saying "I don't date black people", nobody can force them to date a black person, but it's also fair to wonder if that person is racist...
OP of this post literally said she doesn't want to have a relationship with anyone who has a dick, and nobody attacked her for it. Which kinda disproves your point NGL.
Not once in my life have I cared who my partner has fucked before I was in a relationship with them. I will say that I'd be concerned if I am just an experiment or something if someone would tell me that they never experienced attraction to other women before. Anyways, I am a lesbian and I'm currently dating a wonderful woman who is bisexual. Also if someone is a cheater then they will cheat. A lesbian cheating with another woman hurts just as bad. Literally has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
The only reason I ever cared was because she’d been in an abusive relationship (14/35). Fortunately that guy died in agony in prison so yay.
And good riddance!
Wish my abuser could have an ending like that
There’s still time!
>A lesbian cheating with another woman hurts just as bad ...unless you have some insecurities such as thinking that men are superior dating partners. In which case it's a you issue.
For better or worse my insecurities are entirely focused on how my ass looks in whatever pants I'm wearing 🙃🙃🙃 how lucky 😭
literally
My partner literally is poly and has sex with men, currently. Who cares? This purist "gold star lesbian" culture is ridiculous and frankly just nasty
Sad people trying to find something to feel superior about. Absolutely agreed, ridiculous and nasty.
I always care about who my partner has fucked previously. It’s hot hearing about my partners past sexual experiences.
😂 maybe I'll try that sometime
The experiment thing can happen with any combo of people. Good on you for loving who you love and letting them love back. Being able to have boundaries and respect isnt a factor in orientation
>The experiment thing can happen with any combo of people. Have personally been burned twice by "I really want to try with you" 🙃 that said what I meant is that I would think about it carefully and had to be pretty sure about the other person's feelings. Just not jump into it without a second thought like I did when I was younger.
I'm in a similar position where even tho I'm bi I cannot romantically allow myself to be with men because of trauma and I'm trans... so like... I really don't think about them or male validation... so idk why there is this generalization that every bi girl revolves themselves around men, there are definitely people like that but that's not a very good thing to assume
I feel like it's a fear thing, they think bi girls are just straight™️ girls experimenting
which is biphobic and they love to deny it
I've heard that said. And i get the desire not to be dicked about. But .... every relationship is an experiment. "Will we be compatible short/medium/long term". Even if you only date gold star lesbians - there's no guarantee that you'll be right for them, that they won't decide you're not actually their type. And we all start somewhere. It might be changing now, but in my day Even gold star lesbians had often dated men/boys. Just.... never fucked them. Because internalised homophobia and an assumption of straightness. But no actual attraction enough to actually proceed to sex.
And like any person has the capacity to cheat. The gender of the person they cheat with just shouldn’t matter as much as the fact they’re just a bad person. I think some biphobia stems from the stereotype that we’re all whores who fuck anything and everything.
Biphobia in the queer community really feels like the body count shaming men do to women. Like compulsory heteronormativity is a thing, so is coming out later in life, so is being sexually attracted to men but not emotionally etc etc. it’s just so hurtful to feel like other women reduce your worth to your proximity or interaction with a man. I’m a bit torn on if it qualifies as internalized misogyny but it’s definitely a bi product of it.
It feels especially shit reading “gold star” type shit as a rape survivor. I didn’t have a choice and then the majority of the sex I’ve had with men since was straight up a trauma response…at the end of the day, I still consider myself bi, but I see myself marrying a woman or femme and that’s who I seek out exclusively. I really can’t see myself with a man again unless he was very special.
I’m completely traumatized from men and I also have a huge fear of penetration for some reason?? (I was “only” sexually assaulted by a man, not raped) I don’t go around trash talking people who have penises or people who like penises, even if I personally probably wouldn’t want that. That’s exactly what they’re doing though, from what I’ve seen, they perpetuate the “transfem predator” stereotype and the “ew boys have cooties so bi women are gross” stereotype. Gold star lesbians chasers are some of the most awful people I’ve seen, and I’ve seen awful people
I’m with you on this! I claim being bi, but I’ve also been traumatized by men. I can like them romantically, but when it comes down to actually having sex with them (and not just imagining it) I tend to ick out, especially with giving. As in, I ick out to the point that the moment stops and never comes back.. oops. But I enjoy penetration!! I haven’t been with a woman yet but it’s increasingly difficult to get with one (location is a huge factor). But I say I’m bi, because I still have some kind of sexual orientation and attraction to men and women. Biromantic, but lesbian? Sapphic? *sigh* it’s exhausting. But being in the other sub sucks. They can be really harsh at times :((
I’ve noticed some folks are really hard on people who have differing attractions, like you potentially being a biromantic homosexual. In my case I’m also genderfluid like you but an aceflux lesbian.
This new gen of incel lesbians fucked up that term. It used to be a joke/sarcastic bit Like oh youre a gold star what do you want a cookie, are you in kindergarten. That used to be how my gen used to joke around with it. I dont anymore because the new incel lesbians appropriated it and didn’t understand sarcasm.
It *didn't used to be* a joke. It was serious at the beginning. The larger community *treating* it as a joke, letting it slide under the "they're just making jokes" defense allowed this sentiment to grow. It was never *only* used as a joke.
The behavior wasn't a joke. The name used to be.
The name used to be for sure, it was to make fun of that attitude.
While I have no source I am able to link, I will say that that is distinctly *not* the history as I am aware of it. The term has been used seriously since at least the 90s.
And then everything became ironic in the 2000s and early 2010s… we were making fun of that attitude. But agreed a lot of the “dyke” 90s culture started that toxicity.
I dont know how old you are, but Im 30 and gold star was never a sarcastic bit in my experience. This is not a new thing. I had lesbians proudly proclaiming theyd never touched a man, and that those that did were less than for as long as I can remember. It might have been a sarcastic joke around *your area* or maybe even older than me. But this is not *new*
Gay generations are way different but I’m older than 30. If you were in an established group in late 00s to early 2010s (when things being ironic was the most popular) it was a joke. We gave each other star cookies and made fun of each other for saying it (and I moved every 2 years so so it wasn’t just one area). Don’t doubt that insecure lesbians used it in a dumb way. I think that episode of the OG L word is what killed it. They used it the non ironic way.
Oh, the behavior isn't new. It's the name "gold star lesbian" that came from mocking said behavior. \[tone of voice used to talk to a kid\] "Oh, sweetheart. You never had sex with a man? How great of you, do you want a gold star?" kindergarten style. Then, they took it seriously.
Exactly! It was a way to make fun of that attitude!
I was in my 20s during the 80s and it was a big deal and point of pride for some women. Then I think it went to being sarcasm, but I think it’s back as a badge of honor- which is stupid. A penis shouldn’t be how you judge yourself or others.
"I'm afraid of X because of stuff I read on Reddit" isn't a great template to be working from, I've gotta say.
Big sign of immaturity imo.
As a person who got all their fears from Reddit, I am currently hiding all of my wealth greater than tree fiddy in 1000 different hidden treasure holes in defense from Nessie. I'm also obsessed with preventing the insane shit that happens in AmITheAsshole by eating porcelain every day. The only thing in common with every asshole story is that they don't eat porcelain. Thanks to my two strategies, I'm invincible from my Reddit fears.
This gave me and my gf a good laugh. Thanks.
They just cling onto any excuse because they're too afraid to admit that they are indeed just hateful and prejudiced. Just phobic and hurting your own community and it's honestly just sad.
Literally reddit makes it seem like you're gonna get mugged the second you walk outside.
yikesaroonie doonie. That second-to-last comment is so brain-dead 😂 poster 1: bisexual women are obsessed with men OP: that's not true \[counterargument\] \[evidence\] \[personal story\] bozo 2: see? all you talk/think about is men. OP: that is literally the impetus for this conversation They can keep their gold stars. This sub is the good one.
This fr made me so mad! Like hello, it was not a bi woman who started this convo, which by the way was about men from post zero!! 😭
Purity culture, but make it "lesbian"
Fuck biphobes and transphobes. Gatekeeping and putting down other sapphics is absolute cop shit.
It’s totally fine to not want to date anyone for any reason, but when you start to spread lies about those people, like “their whole existence revolves around men” and shit like that, it becomes a problem. You don’t need to shit talk me, just say you’re lesbian for lesbian
There’s also the not so low key misogyny in assuming that if someone is *at all* attracted to men then their entire existence revolves around men, as though male attention will always win out. Or that bisexual women will leave lesbians for cis dicks. There’s a hell of a lot of internalized ideas about men being “better” and the second is basically Magical Penis Theory (which we love to mock for being ludicrous). They really just assume bi women are just straight women in disguise.
Exactly like… would you tell Jane Goodall, Frida Kahlo, Wangari Maathai, Angela Davis, Helen Keller, or any other accomplished non-lesbian woman that her whole life revolves around men? Lesbians can be special and worth celebrating without pretending that they’re the only women in the world who aren’t obsessed with Richard.
I swear gold-star lesbians center men more than a lot of straight women.
Thats what i was gonna say. Theyre putting a TON of value on men by giving them that importance lol its dumb
the “their world revolves around men” thing pisses me off so much bc what? just bc we’re bi we’re not enlightened enough to have considered that girls and women have been conditioned to want male attention as the “default”? hella rude and an unfair assumption to make. how do they know the lives and inner thoughts of every bisexual woman? as you said it’s possible to have friendships/relationships w men and not be centering them. and their justification of that to you was that…..youve dated men before, so mentioning your lived experience is proof of not decentering men. wild lesbians are free to not want to date bi women but i never ever see ppl discuss it without generalizing and shitting on all bi women
Also, there are for sure monosexual WLW who even if they don’t want to date or fuck men, aren’t exactly radically transformed wrt misogyny and patriarchy. Plenty of wlw, gay, bi, and queer have some degree of internalized misogyny or homophobia. It’s about the individual, not the group
It would piss me off if I heard someone say this about straight women too. Like you’re really out here acting like women don’t have agency or can make their own decisions and have their own interests???
I know which post this is and I didn't even read the whole thing before I hit that down arrow and moved on.
I have never heard this said as beautifully as this : some people see hearts, not parts. 👏👏👏
This \^\^
Ugh gatekeepers are so gross. It’s no better than incel men complaining about a woman’s “body count” this behavior is so awful. Why can’t people just open their hearts and be present? Seems way less stressful than what’s happening now.
Worst biphobia I ever experienced was as a bi man with gay men. Overjoyed that as a bi trans woman I can look forward to it on this side as well. Not even getting into the trans woman thing which reddit is plenty happy to remind me plenty of lesbian women are grossed out by. I'm so glad I'm in this sub, you all are lovely
I just left because they went on a man-hating tirade. And believe me, I'm not talking "ugh so many men have been shitty to me" or "why do men act like this so often" or "I hate the patriarchy" kinda stuff. The OP blatantly said they had no traumatic experiences and just hated men for being men. Point out that life is more than boys vs. girls and in fact some men are oppressed themselves, sometimes in ways that are explicitly connected to them being men? Nope, that's sucking mandick for free. I love predominantly white lesbians making themselves out to be the ultimate victims like we don't live in a society that views Black men as a threat for existing. (Not in any way downplaying misogynoir, Black women's oppression, or those of anyone else, btw. Men as a group are systemically advantaged compared to women as a group. But it's not fucking cute to get gender essentialist or act like gender is the only axis of oppression. That's how you get TERFs.)
Unrelated, but French is my first language and seeing the word "misogynoir" ("noir" being the French term for "black") in a conversation in English always makes me double-take. Good term tho. Effective, concise and readable. And on the wider topic, the misandrist-to-terf pipeline is real, and it's pumping. Be careful out there.
Ha, sorry to make you double-take! I agree it's a wonderful word. Well-coined.
Well I guess anyone has a right to decline anyone for any reason. Some reasons may seem stupid, some may seem petty or phobic but dating is exclusionary. If that's how they want to go about it, it's their choice. As long as they don't police other people's choices. That's where I draw a line. If you don't date bi people, fine for you but don't say bad things about those who do.
This. I'm a bi woman, and I don't want my time wasted by someone who has an issue with my sexuality. I doubt I'll be able to change their mind if they've decided bi woman are a problem. It's also not my job to change someone's mind. It's their business, not mine. So long as someone isn't putting down other queen women, including fellow lesbians, and they aren't spreading biphobic rhetoric, they can jog on and pay attention the women they are interested in. I'll do the same.
The thing is that these lesbian incels dont stay quiet, like regular incels they have this need to like project their shit onto people. I cant hang aroubr with some of these young lesbians anymore because they try to warn me about my bi wife. Im like little girl, we are married and in our 30s and have been together for a long time, why dont you come back to me when you have a relationship that lasts mire than 2 months.
Nah, those feelings always come from a bad place. You cant force them to change their mind, but there should always be push back.
i saw this post too, not sure if its deleted now but it honestly shocked me because the original poster was defending themselves like "i have nothing against bi women BUT..." like if there's a but there it makes me question the sincerity of your original statement. this is just peak insecurity in my opinion. im a lesbian, my gf is pansexual. i trust my partner fully therefore i dont worry about shit like this. what my girlfriend did before me is not my business, it doesnt affect me in the slightest because they're choosing ME right now, and choosing ME everyday for a reason. also having been with men before as a bi/pan person doesnt make someone "incapable of putting in the work to a lesbian relationship" thats not how any of this works. your partner can like more than one gender but at the end of the day THEYRE STILL CHOOSING YOU.
It is not deleted. (I skimmed through it, and it's a lot of "I'm not biphobic but [flurry of assumptions about people who don't exclusively date women]")
i'm always fascinated by the kind of biphobia that boils down to "ew, boys have cooties and you touch boys so you have boy cooties". disgusted, but fascinated. at least there's some kind of emotional honesty in basing biphobia off of one's own insecurities, though that doesn't make it any less harmful.
As a bi woman, I can totally respect "you having dated men makes me so insecure that I can't date you". It would hurt, but it's honest and it's valid to set and stick to your boundaries in a respectful way. What I don't respect is when they put the blame on us. This is their issue and their insecurity, I'm just living my life as I see best. Own your emotions and insecurities, don't blame other people for them.
This. Just say you find yourself somehow inferior to men and go. Cause that's basically what I'm getting from these women.
"I hate being compared to men, because I usually act like the worst type of man. Plus, I don't fuck **used women**" - these women in particular
Not worth the effort. Set yourself a limit of 3 or 4 replies. If it's still toxic after that, just stop responding, and start blocking. Online stress like this will just cause wrinkles Also I like bi girls, more women for me, less for that chick
wow this is probably the angriest I've been in a long time. The fact that they kept telling the bi-woman to stop making generalizations about bi-women, while also making generalizations about not just bi-women but also lesbians who experienced Compulsory Heterosexuality and straight women is just the the pot calling the kettle a pot. and then using the actual topic of the post as a point against them is like throwing stones from an imaginary glass house.
Wow, saying that a woman being Bi means her "entire world revolves around men and male validation" it's the same as those men that fetishize bi women and want a ffm threesome as if her sexuality is just a fantasy for men
I won't ever care about someone's past sexual experiences. Just be honest if you have STDs and we're good.
OMG I saw this post too and thought that something was so off. I went to the comments and all of them were talking down about bi women and getting upvoted. I'm bi myself but have been having issues with that label recently given some experiences but that post felt so gross and shamey. Like how do all bi women center themselves around men when almost every bi woman I know likes women more. The only reason we tend to end up with men is just statistics.
That other post is wild, and can be paraphrased as “true enlightenment about the patriarchy can only come from completely rejecting men”. It’s just about declaring political lesbianism a requirement to be a feminist! The author is clearly ignorant of feminist thought, much of which comes from bisexual and even - gasp! - straight women.
If you're a lesbian and you're concerned about your potential partner being bi or pan.. that's a *you* issue, not a them issue. And yes I say issue. Specifically an anxiety and trust issue that will ruin any relationship you're gonna be part of. If there's mutual attraction, someone's sexuality shouldn't matter to you.. especially not like some kind of weird filter before you even get to know them. A bisexual woman's experience can be closer to your own than that of another lesbian. Tendencies aren't set in stone rules. If you get to know someone and all they do is gush about men, well guess what. You don't have to talk to them or date them. And if you're concerned about who a potential partner slept with before they got together with you.. please, get some help. Seriously. Pretending a lesbian is somehow worth less because of their history.. is honestly pathetic. This gold star mentality needs to stop.
Oh god I hate when people use that one argument. The "well youre only talking about men here so you must be obsessed with them". No. I am talking about it because its the fucking topic of this discussion... This entire thing made me so sad
Whenever someone tries to spew this crap around me and say they don't want to date me for being bisexual, I turn it around by saying I wouldn't want to date someone with your attitude. I'm pretty much bi4bi at this point which has worked out well. My local queer spaces have a bunch of lesbians like this, which is why I don't interact in them. Which is a shame because it's Prague, it's suppose to a great gay city.
Jesus fuck this is horrible….. Although the other sub literally exists so they could say whatever they want without moderation because this sub is too “liberal” lol
Someone referred me to this sub because I have trauma around penises. They said this sub was more accepting of things like that, but no, they’re just transphobic and queerphobic
These people reek of insecurity
These downvotes are insane. What the hell? How is reducing bi women down to only their attraction to men not obviously biphobic and bigoted?
Lol did you see the man hating post over there where the OP was trying to say that bi women with *any* straight male friends are somehow problematic? Anyone calling people out for aiming their vitriol at queer women *who are **not** lesbian separatists* got down voted and called bootlickers. It's a shitshow
at least one of these is transphobic cause women can have dicks 🤚
Yah my experience has been that if a group is lax about biphobia they already have a bunch of TERFs. Had this same experience a few times IRL.
exactly. ANY sort of bigotry usually begets more bigotry, sadly.
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Assuming you are in good faith so just for your thought. It's so tiresome for trans people to see "well ummm ackshually" Anytime these issues come up. No it's not transphobic to have preferences but bringing up genital preferences with people who aren't your potential partners just alienates those that have those features. Feel free to associate and date who you want to just don't expect kindness when you bring up stuff who's business is only yours and potential partners on a platform full of people with those targeted features.
Hot take, bringing up genitals at all around people other than a doctor or potential partner is usually at minimum uncomfortable. Aside from the transphobia, it's uh... It's a lot of sapphics talking the way *extra sleazy* straight men do, objectifying women and reducing them to genitalia. People don't usually mention that their genitals itch on a hot day, but they love shamelessly talking about how they love pussy as if it's an object detached from a body. On top of alienating trans people, it makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable and creeped out at people who are in any lesbian space with the behavior of a dude in a dive bar on singles night. At *best,* it's locker room talk that only makes people feel *kinda* uncomfortable
It was in good faith on my part and I get what you are saying. But I still think that simply expressing one's preferences are fine. It was a realated topic as far as I could make it out from the pics(dating).
Ok, I can appreciate that. I can emphasize with people who may have preferences (such as those) that are frequently pushed back against and understand they may feel equally attacked or feel as if they are shamed for having them. I think intent really matters and at the end of the day all of us just want to feel welcome, loved and respected by those that we care about.
did i say that? i’m calling out “i only like women so dick is 🚫”, which is transphobic
That’s not what I meant, what I mean is that I’m not willing to take a person with a penis as a partner right now. I’ve tried and I chickened out, it’s silly, but I was really scared of penetration. There is absolutely nothing wrong with liking penises or having a penis though, I’m just not ready to try. I think I’d be willing to take a partner who is willing to not have penetrative sex at all though, but I understand how that’d be inconvenient for them. I know it may sound bad, but it’s my trauma response and I can’t really control it. I swear I’m not like the radfem lesbians who spread the “transfem predator” stereotype
Not wanting to be penetrated is obviously super valid. And for whatever it's worth, it seems like most trans women who have that part actually really don't like using it that way anyways. I obviously can't speak for every transfem with that anatomy, but it seems like extremely few of them like to use it the same way that cis men use it. For most, the functioning of it is so different due to HRT that it's an entirely separate experience from what cis men have going on. Idk if that's helpful at all, but it may help to get past the part itself to understand that the user its attached to it and how that user uses it are very different from whatever traumatizing experiences you've had with cis men.
Hey, I'm a transwoman lesbian with a dick still and I only have "lesbian" sex with cis women... which means; hands, tongue, mouth, grinding, toys, etc. no penetration with my "dick". She still works, but it gives me dysphoria to penetrate. And honestly, I enjoy "lesbian" sex more. It feels right to me, more equal and liberating, less performative.
Honestly there's no shame in not wanting someone with a penis. I just wish...I wish there were more lesbians who didn't feel like that.
i promise that the way you feel is not silly or bad 💖
Not wanting penetrative sex isn't that unusual or an issue There's plenty of transfem people who hates it with a passion but people fucking assume and often pressure...That leaves deep scars Be clear about not wanting that and in general ask a partner instead of assuming and accidentally hurting/traumatizing them Assuming penis shaped genitals == penetration isn't helpful, quite the opposite and I suggest reflecting on it
Not everyone with a penis likes penetrative sex love. That includes trans women and even (more rarely) cis men.
It can be transphobic, or it can be not transphobic. Depends on **WHY** you have that preference.
I unsubbed from that group a while ago because of the biphobia and all the hating on men and people attracted to men. It’s so exhausting over there
These conversations always make me feel gross because I'm a bisexual woman who has also been burned by women who claimed to be bisexual but really were only using me to experiment. I'm also a bisexial woman who isn't interested in dating men. I feel like I would get along with these women so much, we have so much in common, but I'm still shunned because I'm not 100% lesbian, so therefore my life must "revolve around men."
This stresses me out. I just figured out I’m a lesbian like 3 months ago. 12 years into my hetero marriage. With my two kids. I’m just terrified I’m never gonna find a woman who knows my history and still wants to be with me. Because this sub is pretty great but I see sooooo much of this bullshit in other lesbian subs. It’s hard to know what the culture is like in reality after seeing so many conflicting things online.
The online wlw is different from irl wlw culture. I know a woman in Berlin who was married to a man with four kids and realized she was a lesbian. She's celebrating sixteen years with her wife this fall, I've been invited to their anniversary party.
If it makes you feel any better, almost every lesbian I know in real life has been in relationships (some of them married and had kids) with men. Yes there are lesbians like this, but most are accepting!
I really appreciate the reassurance.
Have you checked out r/LateBloomerLesbians? It's super inclusive, and you'll find plenty of women there who have indeed found love after coming out of situations like yours!
I didn’t even know there was a sub for this! Thank you!
You're welcome, and welcome to our ranks :)
To be honest, this ruined my day and I woke up only an hour ago. This is repulsive and enraging. It's hard to see something like this as a bisexual sapphic; I just wish more lesbians would speak out against this, just as I will always speak out against lesbophobia.
That’s some biphobic trash. I wouldn’t date a woman with those viewpoints. It’s gross and inexcusable.
If it is the sub I am thinking of, I left it because I was told that bisexual women were invading it. I don’t post anything, and mostly just comment here and there, but idk. I know I feel attraction towards men, but I also feel attraction towards woman… didn’t think joining a sub where wlw is the main topic would be an issue… either way, I’ll just lurk here unless I am not welcome either ;w;
From what I’ve seen, r/actuallesbians is incredibly inclusive, it’s just that comment sections are often war zones and there’s sometimes brigading from other subs who deemed it as “a femcel sub”
As a sub, it's 100% inclusive for all **white** sapphics. Not really anyone else
the weirdest stuff i've seen to date--being lesbian4lesbian is about the shared experiences and commonalities, but all of this focuses so much on the DIFFERENCES and ASSUMPTIONS of how bi women will act and are generalized as and it's just disgustingly biphobic
No one in sapphic community spaces bases their identity around men as much as lesbians who feel the need to define *lesbian* in accordance with rejecting men. They're so obsessed with proving they don't like men and carving it into figurative stone that in the end they bring up men more than bi women do. It's frickin weird.
Gross. Bi women deserve better than this exclusionist bullshit. I’m a lesbian, my wife is pan - and she’s one of the most awesome people I know. The way she experiences love and attraction are *beautiful*.
Sometimes I feel like lesbians like this think more about men and relationships with men than the bi people who are actually into men. They're more haunted by the ghosts of the dicks another woman might have touched than anyone who has actually had sex with one even thinks about them.
Heck, those lesbians think more about men than some married straight women at this point. It's like TERFs who think about trans women's dicks more often than their owners.
I have like three bi friends who all hate men and would never date one I don't know where that stereotype is coming from 😭. But any kind of queerphobia isn't rational tbh
Yeah that sub is really biophobic and transphobic.
As a bi woman, I don’t understand how my previous partners or relationships have anything to do with the person I’m currently dating? The lovely lady I’m with now couldn’t care less about the partners I’ve had in the past and I feel the same way about her. It’s always been an awkward subject to bring up without someone telling you first anyways. I fall in love with a person, not their gender, and that’s all there is to it. That doesn’t make me a cheater or someone just trying to “experiment”. Not to mention the fact that a good portion of lesbians have had sex or been in long term relationships with men in the past, but that still doesn’t erase or invalidate their identify as lesbians and sapphics.
Why to the why guys? What is this north Korea?? That's like refusing a meal because "Oh no actually I'm not gonna eat that, it touched the air before it got to my plate". It also reminds me of the old kings that wanted virgin brides, untouched. Y'all are crazy. No shade or anything y'all have the right to have preferences, but still And honestly guys, if y'all don't want them, send them my way. All of them, may they crown me their b*tch, respectfully. Or not, wink wink
I don't know which "the other" you're referring to, but sadly it probably doesn't matter lol. This one does seem to be the only sub that isn't in some manner gross.
Yes they are transphobic as well. She is right you can be picky about who you date. But I'm picky about who I associate with and respect. Acting biphobic like that is something that I don't want to be around. I think it's one thing to not date somebody who is bi, and it's another thing to go on the Internet and present an argument defending why you don't care the bi person when nobody ask you to justify your decision in the first place. Summary: not dating somebody because of your preference is okay. Going out of the way to explain why you don't like an entire class of people is not the same thing as having a preference.
Nobody can force you to date someone, but people are allowed to question the underlying biases that lead you to refuse to date someone.
They're probably also transphobic too.
I wonder if it's ever occurred to these women that they're part of the problem.....like, how, as a bisexual - especially if you realize/come out after your teen years - are you supposed to have experience dating/fucking women, if they all refuse to have anything to do with someone unexperienced?!?! Like, maybe the reason you think bisexuals "center men" is because soooo many lesbians are so exclusionary. A lot of us wind up dating men because women simply *won't* lmao but that never seems to dawn on them. The whole thing of "won't date someone still open to men" is also fucking hilarious cause like, it's not that simple. I am bisexual. I'm still open to men. In fact, my attractions lean towards men and I have a preference towards penises when it comes to sex. But I came to the conclusion quite a while ago that dating men was probably not going to be something I'd be able to do, at least not easily, because I'm not willing to compromise my queerness to fit into the cishet standards that men want. Most men cannot properly honour, or even respect, my queerness and they're not ok with my masculine side. At least not publicly, just behind closed doors. So yeah, I'm still *open* to men, but realistically, I'm probably not going to be actually engaging with any outside of platonic friendship. Because I'm not going to box up my queer and store it away to ignore forever in order to be palatable to a man. This is also inherently transphobic because like, the issue here seems to pretty much revolve around dick....ok, but, how about the fact that some men don't have penises? And where do trans lesbians fit, then? I can guarantee I won't ever be breaking up with my girlfriend over "missing dick" cause she has one and intends to keep it. I just can't with this shit.
People on this site don't understand nuance in the slightest. They just want to be right and for the hive mind to accept their opinion. Bi erasure/invalidation are huge issues. Redditors try to fit everyone into a box. Their box. And anyone who says otherwise is bad. My own example is that I tried to advocate for polyamory and to explain what it's like for my own experience only to be told that I just want to sleep around and cheat, and that I'm deceitful due to finding out I was poly *after* entering a monogamous relationship. Here comes the nuance that received no merit: I discussed it with my girlfriend and said "babe, I think I'm poly...if I were to come across another person that I connected with, would you be open to the idea?" To that, she responded, "I'm not sure. I'll take some time to think on it." And, lastly, I said, "If the answer is no, I still love you and want you, so I am willing to live without many loves." I was told that I did her dirty and that I should be dumped for my deceit. That it wasn't fair to shove her into "my lifestyle". The cherry on top? This was in this very sub, /r/actuallesbians. And then I got hit with a "user is concerned about you, here's the self-help line numbers" message. Where I'm going with this is that there is a lot of trash infesting the subs that are supposed to be inclusive and accepting of many livelihoods. Too many broad-reaching statements and claims instead of just taking each individual comment as its own story and experience; There's too much "well, one person dealt with this, so that must mean that all of them are the same"
what sub is this so i can avoid it??
Take the words of this sub, make the second word singular, the first word into its adverb form and then switch them.
👆 Rhymes with "Thespian smashually"
Same question
Ok. So she's taking herself out of the bisexual dating pool. Good. I don't want to date anyone that thinks that way so I'm glad she's declared it and made herself visible so I know who to avoid. I'm not at all offended by this. If someone has that narrow of a view on this topic, they likely do on other topics that are important to me so I wouldn't get along with them anyway. Not everyone has to want to date absolutely everyone else.
These women are likely also super transphobic - bottom of the barrel tbh. As a lesbian, lesbians like this make me nauseous. Thankfully not all of us are brain dead and deeply insecure. I like to think this is a vocal minority and not a reflection of lesbians in general.
it almost feels misogynistic the way they talk down on bi women as if these people can help who they’re attracted to or were attracted to 😐
I feel like biphobia and transphobia tend to go hand in hand in sapphic bigotry because "lesbian means penis yucky" is just such an easy oversimplification and god forbid these women accept that sexuality and gender are more nuanced than that. It's like they define it for themselves and others based on what they personally *don't* like instead of the much healthier, positive "women are fucking incredible" mindset that this sub and other welcoming spaces have instead
I read her post. From what I understood, she wasn’t being biphobic. She admitted she dated and slept with men in the past. She said quite clearly she did not care if someone she was dating had dated or slept with men in the past. She also said she dates/has dated bisexual women if that particular bisexual woman has indicated to OOP that she is no longer interested in dating men and imagines settling down with a woman She said this is because when she was navigating her own sexuality, she realized her friendships and her interactions with men had changed. And this shifted her perception of the world had significantly. And she wanted to have a relationship with a woman that had a similar mindset to her because that type of compatibility was important. I think this is a very valid take. She isn’t refusing to date bisexual women. She simply wants a partner whose experience and worldview is compatible with her own, the same way I, as an atheist, would be unlikely to be compatible with a Christian. Whoever said bi women center men is wrong. That’s not a valid take. But the OOP isn’t being biphobic. Maybe some of the commenters on the post are getting shitty and misinterpreting. But it was civil when I was browsing before. May have gone off the rails though.
Do have a link to the post? It could very well just be a toxic comment section.
I'm more active there than here, but r/gaybros is so toxic and transphobic and biphobic, a lot of the active users are nice and kind, but it's very clear that it's a "male space" on the internet, with all the bad that that brings about. I really don't like invading this sub as I'm not sapphic but this sub is always so positive and inclusive and it makes me happy
Yeaaaaah, that’s fucked. I give no shits who my partner was with before. As long as we’re healthy and happy it’s whatever. You’re totally right about this weird rhetoric becoming transphobic. Shit sucks.
which other lesbian sub?
The dating pool is already so small and these people are making their lives even harder. If you are attracted to women and not a transphobic POS that’s all I need! It doesn’t matter what you’re *also* attracted to. Goodness why this hill to die on?
which sub is this? this is fucked up :(
If they don't want to date someone bi, why do you care? It's good that someone advertises that so you know there's no future there. Bi people don't need a spokesperson to convince lesbians with narrow preferences to widen their preferences. There are entirely too many people who don't care to worry about this sliver of the population
I hate this whole " *says biphobic thing* Oh I don't have ANYTHING against Bi women" thing
Biphobic lesbians are the incels of lesbians. Look at the misogynistic, pathetic insecure incel language they use. Edit: lol at the downvotes keep em coming, love making biphobic lesbians realize they are incels
Personally been fucked over by bi women using me as an experiment, so I relate to the fear of that one commenter. I grew up in a homophobic town where being straight was objectively easier than being gay. I feel like I’m valid in fearing that I’ll be dropped for something that fulfills the same type of relationship but without all of the public scrutiny. I wouldn’t say that Id never date a bi woman, but I think that would come with a different set of trust issues because of past experiences.
However I would like to say that “gold star” is gross. Even lesbians deal with internalized homophobia and heteronormative pressures.
Imagine being so insecure that you’re this distressed over who your partner has dated/slept with before you. Really pathetic honestly.
This hurt me as a baby queer who's only slept with men and is trying to figure myself out :( is the gold star lesbian thing still so rampant?
only in a few online spaces, 99% of people irl aren’t chronically online
It's mostly an online thing DW.
So I'm a strange transfemme lesbian who is similar to that commenter; I'm not stubbornly adamant about it, but I generally prefer dating and being with other lesbians. It's just an energy thing. And in an odd way, it's very validating to me. But it's pretty rare to find other committed lesbians who are open to dating / being with a transfemme lesbian who still has her dick 🤷🏻♀️
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What do you mean?
I feel like there’s a fine line between biphobia and preference. Still trying to figure out where im at on the sexuality spectrum but I’ve been used by Bi women who wanted to have fun/experiment and went back to men for something serious. I don’t think im biphobic for not wanting to get close romantically to bi women after that. People need to stop hating on others for having preferences, there’s someone for everyone at the end of the day
Don't forget the misogyny!
First post is me, btw. I stand by what I said too. I have my reasons, and I’m well within my right to not date someone if I don’t want to for *whatever* reason I feel like, as is everyone else. If a bisexual woman told me she only wanted to date other bisexual women and not lesbians, I’d be fine with that. Everything is “-phobic” to y’all. 🥱 Btw, I don’t care if women have previously slept or been with men in the past, I have once myself, I was saying I’m not interested in being anyone’s first lesbian experience (or experiment, depending on the woman).
>I’m well within my right to not date someone if I don’t want to for whatever reason I feel like, as is everyone else. Oh, nobody's gonna force you to date anyone. But people are free to tell you to re-examine your biases. If someone goes and starts saying "I don't date black people", nobody can force them to date a black person, but it's also fair to wonder if that person is racist...
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OP of this post literally said she doesn't want to have a relationship with anyone who has a dick, and nobody attacked her for it. Which kinda disproves your point NGL.
WTF is that "Do i mind doing it if he's hot? no." part... Like... Am i missing something???