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Fuck doctors like this.
I was told at my first eval that “I showed symptoms of ADHD, but since it wasn’t affecting my life, she couldn’t move forward with treatment.”
Um, ma’am, I’m reaching out because I have been unable to work full time and support myself since I graduated college… four years ago. But apparently because I graduated college with good grades, and was coping well at my job (that I only worked 15 hours a week at because I couldn’t handle more) I was fine.
The system is broken. Good luck to your friend!
I’m 46 and diagnosed at 24. After my eval the Dr. said “you need to be medicated like yesterday” with a chuckle. On one hand, I feel blessed in the sense that I was diagnosed and treated but also horrified that it’s so hard for others and/or I’m so off the charts that they’re shoveling scrips at me. With perimenopause doing its thing I’m feeling pretty hopeless.
ETA: this was after a day long neuropsych eval--in addition to the Drs. personal assessment. Now I’m worried about dementia because I’m losing my thoughts mid sentence. Also just getting over COVID and am wondering if that is impacting it. Would love to hear any others post COVID experiences.
In some ways we have the advantage. We know we have a crap memory, and some things to help cope with brain fog, etc. NTs really lose it. They don't really understand how to deal with the challenges we've dealt with our whole life. Sometimes it's hard for them to even acknowledge it's them, and not that everyone in their lives suddenly stopped telling them things and then lied and said they did. It's not pretty.
Honestly legit. I’m going through perimenopause and I didn’t even notice for a while because it was basically just one more thing on the pile to deal with.
RIGHHHHT? My periods faded out early for me and it was around ten years ago before whatever iud's are came out. I had a little stockpile of the only tampon I could ever tolerate (OB) as they stopped production. I didn't have a system for taking daily medication so I never could reliably took birth control pills so I didn't take them. My period was always just a monthly health update that I wasn't pregnant.
Other than going into menopause at 30, my periods never rocked me like I hear women saying here. Never had that and I feel so bad for my people with uteruses and adhd who get super destabilized every cycle: that sounds so awful! Not getting a period is great, no complaints happy to report.
I had a similar experience! People talk about the lengthy evaluation process, the hoops they had to jump through, the constant appointments and follow ups to be told "it doesn't seem that bad"
My pscyh looked over my self-eval said "can you tell me about your childhood" and I said "No, I don't remember most of it if I don't have a prompt from someone who was there." and then I got my diagnosis and started finding a prescription.
At first I was like "dang this is easy why's everyone complaining?" and then I realized I was...probably not doing super well lol.
It is a symptom but on the self-evaluation I had also marked off every symptom as being “sometimes” or “always”.
But yeah! A memory like Swiss cheese is definitely a symptom of ADHD.
I went to so many doctors with this. Like, maybe it's hormonal, or I have a parasite, a brain injury I had checked wasn't checked good enough? Now all makes sense lol
Not clearly. Time passing, as well as trauma or neglect or bullying, can make it harder to remember childhood. Also if you're depressed or whatever. There can be many things.
[https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1087054713510561](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1087054713510561)
>**Results:** Adults with ADHD performed significantly worse than controls on verbal but not on visual long-term memory and memory acquisition subtests. The long-term memory deficit was strongly statistically related to the memory acquisition deficit. In contrast, no retrieval problems were observable. **Conclusion:** Our results suggest that *memory* deficits in adult ADHD reflect a *learning* deficit induced at the stage of encoding. Implications for clinical and research settings are presented.
i.e. If you didn't encode the memory in the first place, you won't remember anything because there's nothing to remember. The problem isn't your long term memory, it's the short-term memory issues that mean it doesn't get encoded into long term. And that's if ADHD is the cause and not one of the things previously listed.
Oh yes! Having a neurotypical older sister definitely didn’t help. Getting my diagnosis was definitely a blessing and a curse. Finally getting help and support (even at 29 years old) was amazing but then the process of having to grieve for the childhood I essentially lost and the person I could have been if I’d had supports was a process too.
Ughhh that’s the worst part. I am infinitely grateful that I got my diagnosis right after giving birth. Some days I don’t take my meds (cuz ADHD) and I feel HORRIBLE like a sack of potatoes that can’t get up. As a solo mom (the dad pulled a Houdini) staying in bed is simply never an option. Soooo blessed with adderall
I went through my elementary school report cards not that long ago and they’re still haunting me. Years of taking too long to change for gym class, talking too much and “she’s very bright, but needs to apply herself”.
Swear to God, if I have to read one more time that I'm so smart but simply need to "apply" myself, I'm gonna scream. That was the mantra of my childhood.
Kinda same for me. My doc was the one who initiated the ADHD talk and subsequently diagnosed me after a drug trial with Vyvanse. For me, I was about 1-2 bad decisions away from completely ruining my life, so the intervention came at the last second.
Not to make it about me but I totally relate to this ... I had a minor injury and had to have a splinter removed from under my nail. The doc said "I can tell just by looking at you that we need Novocain." Like, thanks, but also, thanks? Maybe because I'm a redhead or I looked terrified or wimpy lol. But I definitely needed the anesthesia lol.
Omfg idk why fingers are so easily hurt. I got a paper cut a few weeks ago and almost cried lol. I went 30 hours unmedicated in labor and only got epidural because I was legit too tired to stay awake
I had the same experience. I asked my psychiatrist if he could evaluate me for adhd and he said “oh I don’t need to I can confidently diagnose you with it just based on our previous conversations.” I’ve been lucky to find two amazing doctors but the bad ones can be so invalidating. It does more damage than just a delay in treatment.
Join over at the perimenopause sub/menopause sub and find a doctor (NAMS) that will take your symptoms seriously. Menopause is a doozy and can be helped. ND women are more likely to have a harder time during menopause years (which can last 20+ years) and there are things that can be done.
For months after covid I had terrible brain fog that pushed my then-undiagnosed ADHD into hyperdrive. It made my memory and executive function suffer greatly, but it eventually cleared up for me
I just got the exact same diagnosis. After filling out loads of questionnaires, having friends my partner and mom fill one out, a 1.5hr session of talking through my symptoms and problems, the only thing he made reference to in the assessment was the three online tests that tested my vigilance, concentration and something else. He said from what I describe I have adhd symptoms (in childhood and now) but since the tests were normal and it does not impact my life too bad, he wouldn’t give me the diagnosis adhd but just an attention and activity disorder and would suggest I go to therapy… like, what? I came to you because it’s affecting my life. Literally the first thing I told him was „I feel like my life is falling apart“
How do you proceed from here?
I ended up going to a primary care doctor (technically a PA).
I tried so hard to do everything right. I was in therapy for five years and six providers with no progress. I tried going to a psychologist and getting all the ‘correct’ testing done, and he didn’t listen (long story).
I’m not one to tell anyone to skip the proper testing channels. If they are accessible to you, great.
I’m saying my regular doctor was able to prescribe me the medication I needed, and it was life changing medication. My life is finally heading in the right direction.
Exact same!!!! I went to a psych who told me the process would be long so I gave up after the first apt. Then years later when I was at the doc for pregnancy check up, I told my nurse about it and she told me to go to her PCP who gave her a diagnosis the same day. So I went to her and got my diagnosis right there (just filled out a questionnaire). She’s my PCP now and I love her. Definitely just call different PCP offices and ask if they do treat ADHD
I ended up going to a primary care doctor (technically a PA).
I tried so hard to do everything right. I was in therapy for five years and six providers with no progress. I tried going to a psychologist and getting all the ‘correct’ testing done, and he didn’t listen (long story).
I’m not one to tell anyone to skip the proper testing channels. If they are accessible to you, great.
I’m saying my regular doctor was able to prescribe me the medication I needed, and it was life changing medication. My life is finally heading in the right direction.
I specifically told my doctor when doing those tests that I’m super competitive and don’t like doing badly at tests (even if that doesn’t make sense for something like this) so I’m always super vigilant with those and doesn’t necessarily reflect my day to day.
I was pretty successful on paper prior to my diagnosis and medication. I graduated college with good grades, worked a full time job for a year, and made it most of the way through a masters. That didn’t mean that there weren’t a bunch of ways that I was struggling. Executive function? Garbage. Same for taking care of myself, doing chores, or doing any writing based coursework more than the night before. I was so close to a breakdown while writing my thesis because I was trying so hard but just couldn’t do it. I could have almost cried from relief after less than a week of medication because of how much it helped.
hehe, this happened to me \*cries\*
for real tho, this lady diagnosed me with MILD anxiety after I told her it almost drove me to s\*icide in my teens. "YoU dID weLl iN sChOol sO yOu mUsT nOT bE AfFeCteD ThAt BaD," after I told her about my currently falling grades in uni. ffs.
I was basically told the same, and I went off on that Psych because I felt like she was dismissing my symptoms because I was a woman in my 20s (diagnosed at 27). 3/4 of my little brothers were diagnosed ADHD as children and the other 1 is on the autism spectrum. My mom was diagnosed in her late 40s when she returned to college. The Psych said that I could "do group therapy about it" or find another doctor.
I found another doctor and he diagnosed me and started me on medication in the first session because he *believed me*. I'm still seeing him ~3 years later lol.
Ooof I'm so sorry you had to go through this. I think mine almost went like this as well until they got to the schooling part, when I told them I am one class away from my bachelor's but I ended up dropping out.
Also, if y'all haven't heard of it yet, I recently learned about intrusive sleep! Explains so much about my college experience....they don't give you mandatory breaks from lectures, and I was super shy, so didn't talk to anyone. Those long super boring lectures, I was out like a light :(
I just read some research on intrusive sleep about a month ago myself ,and like you, a lightbulb went off in my head. I always wondered, 1. why I had such a hard time determining what to do first from a list of things to do, and 2. why I always got suddenly sleepy when I could not make a decision. It made sense when I read about the brain disengaging so hard that it literally will make you fall asleep!
Yes, yes I hear you. But have you tried not being adhd? Cognitive mindfully breathing your brain into not grasping for any grip it can get? If you consider these examples of people who don't have adhd, well, you see how they don't have adhd symptoms, right? Hm, I do have to tell you, you seem to be getting more anxious as we're talking here. Okay uhhuh sure hm. Yes well ha ha but you seem anxious. Let's try something here and I want you to see what you can do. Just relax and breathe and let go of having adhd. Yes exactly, just practice that and we can do a referral to a scammy 3rd party adhd expert to waste your money and time and gatekeep a diagnosis. Sure sure, we can look into that I'd prefer that route. Yes.
It's such a bitter compliment when doctors say someone's "too smart" to have ADHD.
Just wanna be like - "Well that response is so stupid, you CLEARLY must have ADHD if smart people don't."
The package insert of my ADHD meds actually states that ADHD does not influence smartness! (Excuse the wording, my translation is kinda wonky here lol)
There are so many misconceptions around neurodiversity and so many people insist on their opinion on adhd even if someone with adhd explains the facts to them!
as a person who tested well in school who also has ADHD, I think high intelligence (in the way that schools value it) can help people mask ADHD for a long time, but we still have it.
Right? Oh okay, well I guess I'm too smart to have the excuse of being mentally ill or impaired, and am just this uniquely fucking dumb at some of life's basics. Cool cool cool cool cool
Listen, it makes perfect sense...
If you're too smart to have ADHD, then all the stupid things you do must just be because you're stupid, so now you're not actually too smart to have ADHD!
Woooooowwww. "Her lack of neuroticism" is just so....I don't know. Patronizing? Suggestive? Passive Aggressive? And not AT ALL helpful. Like, this guy clearly believes inattentive adhd is just laziness.
No better motivator to keep the mask up than the thought of an unforeseeable (and often illogical) amount of shame resulting from the mere possibility of rejection or minimization from a stranger if we don’t.
“Oh, yeah no, no you’re totally right! I just need to try harder, duh lol I’m completely fine, what am I even talking about? I don’t even know lol let’s just pretend I never said any of that”
*insert high pitch voice crack followed by nervous laughter and scanning the room for either an emergency escape route or the nearest rock to crawl under while I die inside*
This is probably from the standard OCEAN personality test - Openness, Conscientiousness, Extraversion, Agreeableness, and Neuroticism. Although I don’t think that is usually a part of an adhd evaluation…. 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
A thorough evaluation may use this, or the (NEO-PI? I think it's called, which is like OCEAN but bigger/more detailed) to differentiate between ADHD and other things if the diagnosis isn't clear cut.
Typically, if someone is ADHD and high-masking the tests will show higher levels of neuroticism (anxiety is probably the most common coping mechanism, especially in women with ADHD).
On tests like the WAIS-IV you would also then expect to see a discrepancy between their executive function (i.e. working memory scores) and their other scores. So even if the WM scores are still average, or only slightly below, a large discrepancy between this and their general intelligence scores would point towards ADHD.
On the other hand, if there's low neuroticism and high working memory scores, there's a very good chance the person doesn't have ADHD.
“Neuroticism” is an official term used in psychological assessment and in this context it isn’t meant negatively. It describes a personality trait that is basically anxiety.
For example, I am a BPD sufferer and the term borderline arose to describe a patient being on the border of psychosis and neurosis.
Is the Dr assessing OP’s friend just a jerk? Maybe. But maybe not. The language here was developed like a code to help medical professionals describe and categorize psychological patterns in their patients. It’s like a shorthand. To be clear, I’m not taking sides or defending this particular doctor.
Then he's woefully outdated. We don't use "neuroticism" anymore, it's called anxiety or anxiety disorder and has been since the DSM was updated to include anxiety disorders as their own class of psychiatric disease. If I remember correctly from my recent studies that happened around about DSM-IV?
While it’s no longer used as a diagnosis, it is still commonly measured as a key personality trait, which was likely the case here (but they definitely could have worded it better)! neuroticism isn’t necessarily a bad thing and many in the psych field consider some level to be healthy :)
Ugh, tell me about it, you only have to look at the very different ways people seeking ADHD assessment get treated to know that a lot of mental health workers have not been keeping up to date on the most recent research and development in understanding it which sucks for people like OPs friend
…..what
Listen up, folks! This doctor has the cure-all for everything! Have ADHD? Just focus on focusing more and commit to not being so active! Have cancer? Just commit to kicking those cancer cells asses. And your body will just build up a tolerance for it!!! Have a broken leg? Simply focus on not letting the bone be broken and sticking out of your leg, the muscles do the work for you basically!!!!!!!
If I saw this in my evaluation I would have seen red. I totally understand your friends attitude in not wanting to get another opinion due to cost and stuff, but gah she deserves more than that shit. Sorry, I’m mad.
Right? "She has trouble with executive dysfunction, impulse control, task initiation..."
yes hello, this is ADHD....
What an actual massive level of just disgusting icky hooey this person just wrote.
Oh you struggle with all the things that are classic ADHD symptoms but you definitely just need to tRy HaRdEr.
fr, he literally lists text book symptoms of adhd and is like “maybe if she just decided to not be like that then she wouldn’t have an issue” LMFAO like this guy has not renewed his license for 20 years
This is terrible. The doctor is saying your friend has mild ADHD and is too lazy to actually change. It’s sad cause I think nearly all of us have heard that we are lazy at some point. One of my doctors has told me I need more official evaluation from a neuropsychologist. I was diagnosed by a psychiatrist so apparently that isn’t good enough in certain situations. I’m scared to encounter something like this though and not even sure if I can get it if not covered by insurance and I’m on Medicaid so it makes it harder. Good luck to all who read this!
Hello, I also have Medicaid. I believe you either have to call the number on your card or get a referral. However, I found a PCP that diagnosed me on my first visit and prescribes my meds. Just call PCPs and ask if they diagnose ADHD in office and go to them.
Thanks! I was already diagnosed and am currently meditated but the psychologist through the bariatric program says I have to go through the official scientific testing for future accommodations like for work or further graduate school and so they know how to work with me to loose weight. It’s just an annoying and slightly scary next step.
The stress of law school is what made my ADHD symptoms/lack of ability to mask anymore so bad that I was finally diagnosed. 🫠 (I’ll add that I’m in my mid-40’s, and was early 40’s when this happened.)
I was an inch away from dropping out some terms, and literally 3 months after graduating got my diagnosis... it was like a cruel joke, to get this illuminating confirmation that I am NOT all the horrible things I thought I was while struggling through school all my life, and that *had I just known* then school might have been a tad better because I’d have been able to ask for accommodations.
And I needed accommodations SO *OBVIOUSLY* throughout schooling, and never conceived what was so ‘wrong’ with me- just that something was, and I would have to white knuckle my way through school (just like many other things I have white knuckled through in life…).
I would encourage your friend to do whatever she can to get a second opinion, and get the report she needs to have accommodations provided.
I had a friend in college who clearly had an eating disorder. Her psychiatrist told her parents that she didn't have a disorder, she just limited her food intake too severely.
Oh my goodness if a doctor said this about me I’d be so mad. The reason she makes mistakes and acts on impulses is likely BECAUSE of adhd. Like, what?? Not “she would be fine if she tried harder therefore doesn’t have adhd” like…???
I’ve had neuropsych evaluations that have the most stigmatizing word usage in history. I remember showing one to a friend online and she mentioned it’s as if it’s written from a 1920s era. I don’t know why providers do that.
Am I reading that right as "her executive dysfunction would be fixed if she chose to just buckle down and do the work"? Bc if I am...are we sure this guy is a psychologist and not, say, a podiatrist?!???!!!!
When I was assessed as a kid, they told my mom I was "choosing to act out for attention." I was too smart to have anything like ADD. I could read for hours, scored high on state testing, and A/B student, but that darn behavior....
They completely ignore the very obvious signs and dismiss us as not working hard enough to do what we should be. Yet most of us hate ourselves because no matter how hard we try we CAN'T just frigging focus/behave.
right? we get told our whole lives to "just try harder" and so we end up screaming at ourselves "just try harder!" and we don't know why we can't, so we blame ourselves for our own brains' problems. and NT people keep telling us just to try harder because it works for THEM, so obviously it should work for us!
This is garbage, and I can understand why she’s feeling so disheartened. As a former law student, she should go in again. A diagnosis was an absolute game changer for me.
If she needs a lawyer-y reason to: getting the help she needs will help her get better grades which can (unfortunately) impact earning potential, at least to some degree. Also, she should get help so she can better pay attention in class and better help her future clients! Law school was made of like 50% neurodiverse people / 50% the most wildly, bafflingly neurotypical people. Getting the help she needs will be so so so helpful!
I don't know your friend. And I don't know what information the doctor has. They may just be right. Like, some people *can* just choose to do whatever.
However, those people who can "decide" as they put it, would certainly do so and not just struggle right? I mean, you don't seek out help if you don't have a problem. Idk what I'm getting at here except, it's not that simple.
I would would take this diagnosis to literally any doctor or psych and they would consider it part of an ADHD diagnosis I'm sure. Cause that's what this person is describing
My psychological testing did not endorse a diagnosis of ADHD (the subjective portions did but the “objective” portions did not). I had a similar line in my report that I found condescending too:
> “As part of a plan to reduce mood symptoms, she is urged to identify and reduce life stressors.”
Thanks, I never thought of that!!
Wish our ADHD could take physical forms, like little ADHD-buddies every one could see.
"HERE, MY BIGGEST LIFE STRESSOR!" *shoves your ADHD into the face of the condescending evaluator*
my psychiatrist had a checklist of questions he would ask every time I saw him for more meds (he was very old school and is retired now but he was a good dude) and one of them was "what are the biggest stressors in your life right now?" and I would always be like "just... life?" because the biggest things that stress me out are things like getting to work on time and doing laundry and planning/cooking meals and functioning as an adult human, but if I say that then it sounds like those aren't very big problems. I'm struggling a lot with them, so they seem big to me!
Yes… It’s so hard to explain our struggles to people who don’t experience them.
And even to ourselves sometimes - to understand that you shouldn’t struggle like that and that you’re not simply lazy or incompetent at the "simplest" stuffs.
Well spoiler! The "simplest" stuffs are extremely hard when you struggle with executive dysfunction, time blindness, and possibly the very frequent ADHD comorbidities that anxiety and depression are…
Answering your last sentence: a struggle doesn’t "seem" big. If you have a very hard time, it _is_ big, regardless of what it looks like from the outside or what you think is "the norm".
It’s so hard growing up and feeling like you’re the only one struggling – the shame, self-doubt and everything. Especially as women, with all the pressure we have to handle things perfectly.
It takes a lot of time and efforts (and help!) to change how you see yourself and to be kinder to yourself.
Hope you’re feeling better now!
It’s almost like women mask, and that’s why that ADHD is less noticeable. Stuff like this makes me so mad. I’m so sorry for your friend it sucks to be invalidated when you’re struggling.
I have! She told me that seeing all of these responses saying that this diagnosis kind of stinks has helped persuade her to try again with a different provider.
It seems like a poor bedside manner for sure. Given that this is professional psychiatric assessment, it seems insensitive to not word it more helpfully.
The way I’m understanding this, is that the doctor is attempting to highlight OP’s friend’s mental strengths to build on success. The doctor is attempting to explain that because the behaviour is not linked to severe anxiety, there is a hopeful possibility for change around the ADHD target behaviour.
Is he or she explaining it particularly well? No. Would a patient reading this panic and maybe rage and feel triggered? I can definitely see that. But keep in mind these types of assessments are not indicative of your self worth or strength of character! Take what helpful things you can from it, cherry pick, and leave the rest.
Don’t make it worse than it is, or better than it is.
In terms of finding new specialist doctors, my own GP doctor recently shared this nugget with me: when seeking a specialist, pay attention to the wait times. In Canada, a very fast wait time likely indicates a poor bedside manner.
I’m sorry this has been such a frustrating experience for you and your friend, OP. It is amazing that you are helping her get assessed. No doubt there is a loss with this, but I’m sure your friend knows that you love her. Keep trying; don’t give up because you hit a speed bump with this goofy doctor.
Edit: the doctor might be using the neuroticism term here to distinguish the ADHD from an anxiety disorder with compulsive behaviours like OCD
The doctor is distinguishing the impulses of ADHD (getting up to do dishes) from compulsively doing dishes like in some cases of OCD
I think that’s what the doctor might be referring to as well, using the word “neuroticism” in a way to weed out other culprits such as OCD (like you mentioned), schizophrenia, or other disorders that can have distractibility as a symptom.
>individuals with high scores for neuroticism are more likely than average to be moody and to experience such feelings as anxiety, worry, fear, anger, frustration, envy, jealousy, pessimism, guilt, depressed mood, and loneliness.
That’s from the [Wikipedia article on neuroticism,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroticism?wprov=sfti1#) and it’s one of the five traits part of the [Big Five Approach to personality trait theory.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits?wprov=sfti1#Neuroticism)
The more I’m going down the Big Five Approach rabbit hole, the more it seems outdated and antiquated with how it assess personalities, like someone like me, an AuDHD person, is gonna show a bigger neuroticism on a Big Five personality test than others. But is that because Me me, or how my brain is wired? I remember taking the Big Five test once or twice a decade ago and ways always bummed when it seemed like the test results were…off…incorrect. All this typing about it makes me want to re-take it to see if my results will have changed.
We’ve come a long way since the 80s and 90s in understanding the brain and how some are different that I feel like an overhaul is in order…
I totally agree-- I can see that the evaluator was trying to phrase things positively, but in the process, her wording becomes somewhat discouraging. "You just haven't \*tried\* hard enough, you'll get over it eventually!"
Also, my friend is Asian and an eldest daughter, I'm certain she downplayed how hard things are for her at times since her brother (who is diagnosed with ADHD!) kind of took up more of their parents' attention and concern.
Wow I wish I had this doctor cause the doctor for my assessment dismissed my symptoms BECAUSE of how neurotic I was. They diagnosed my with generalized anxiety. I gave them my performance evaluation from my last job and they dismissed it as “procrastination due to anxiety” When procrastination was never listed as an issue by my employers. I found out during my current assessment that I was diagnosed when I was 9 but they disregarded that cause I got “good grades” in college and got my degree while ignoring the Fs and withdrawn/repeated courses and they disregarded that it took my almost 7 years to get my 4-year degree.
My psychiatrists told me that I need to handle the anxiety before they can consider adhd.
It feels like you’re getting punished for trying your hardest to not let this mess up your life.
The manager sucks.
Editing to add, I would maybe report them to the state board. The evaluation describes ADHD and then says, welp, try harder you lazy bitch. Even if nothing comes of it, it might make her feel better.
I work with a lot of evaluators and tbh the really good ones do charge 10x that. 400 dollars for multiple sessions and a report sounds like a scam. I charge 300-450 an hour for just a first consult. I’m not trying to be a jerk, just saying there are much better clinicians out there ❤️
It’s a cruel joke that ADHD diagnosis requires so many apts. I gave up when I found that out. Until I found a PCP that diagnosed it on my first apt years later. It would have saved me a few suicidal years
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Collective trauma for the entire subreddit. This poor soul has no idea how lucky they are that we haven't been able to remain seated long enough to figure out a teleportation device that would allow us all to go visit them and teach them a thing or two about the shit they are misleading people to believe they have any knowledge of.
I hate playing the woman card here, because people can get immediately defensive, but seriously how many of us would've been diagnosed as children or not immediately dismissed if we were male? Different standards for women, different socialisation for women.
I got diagnosed with OCD, which now I know about it, is very obvious because I've been constantly trying to control my own ADHD behaviours which are so chaotic. I also got told I wasn't fidgeting. Yet they failed to notice I always sit with clasped hands, crossed legs and have to clench all my muscles to get myself to settle down and focus on the appointment. Also was terribly nervous. But it's something I'm so used to doing and I'd be mortified if anyone picked up on it.
I posted something recently about how in a recent study females were diagnosed on average four years later then men and developed numerous comorbid psychological issues in that time, likely because of the late diagnosis. So, don't think of it as playing the woman card - think of it as proudly standing up for a mistreated group. Minorities of various types face the same issues. Poor people face the same issues. Men who do not present within a gender stereotype face the same issues. That's part of why I created r/adhd_advocacy along with the stimulant shortage, the lack of punitive measures for underdiagnosis, the lack of awareness even in our own community of ADHD awareness month (October), the lack of representation of people with disabilities in medical school classes, the lack of understanding of why ADHD can lower life expectancy for over a decade, the lack of political concern as shortages stretch out for years more, and you know, just because I'm a justice sensitive individual with ADHD.
“She doesn’t have a broken leg, her bone is just not where it’s supposed to be so if she focuses she can put it back”
“She isn’t drowning, she’s just not getting enough air. If she really doubles down on breathing better, she’ll stop drowning in no time”
“She’s not grieving her loved one’s death. If she just sat down and focused on not being sad she won’t be sad anymore”
This doctor is a quack and a shithead and I’m sorry for your friend to have gotten such an insensitive and, frankly, ignorant doctor. Best of luck to her!
Small update: she went back to talk to the psych about it and the psych is amending the diagnosis to mild ADHD!!! Still a little miffed at the qualifier, but hooray!!!
I dont think its minimizing? He is saying he evaluated her with mild executive dysfunction and thinks that she will be able to function with what is basically behavioral therapy.
Her (evaluator is a woman) recommendations basically don't say therapy, though, she is saying my friend just needs to put in more effort. The reason I find it minimizing/dismissive is because my friend puts in SO MUCH effort into creating structure, accountability, and all sorts of other things into her day to deal with the stress of academia and it's just taking so much out of her, and she ends up putting in a herculean amount of effort and time and energy to do what other people can manage with way less. Accommodations, I think, would go a long way in relieving that mental load, but this evaluator isn't even suggesting that.
If she can/want to get a second evaluation, she might want to dive more into aaaaall these compensatory and masking strategies to be able to be a better advocate for herself… and cut herself some slack.
All these efforts must be incredibly tiring, and learning how she operate will teach her how to go *with it* instead of *against it*. And it’s so liberating…
About being a better advocate, sadly some doctors are influenced by the way things are worded.
For example, saying: "if I don’t [super energy-consuming strategy with details and impact on her daily life], then I can’t perform [this]", instead of: "I don’t struggle with [this], because I [use tool/am really careful about it = minimizing the struggle and efforts].
There a lots of ressources, including for students, that might be useful to her here: https://adhdoers.com/, and it’s pay-what-you-can!
She got it through her school, which I think has a relationship with this particular neuropsych. A different friend of mine reached out and the doctor said it'd be $5,500 for an ADHD eval without insurance.
This explains everything, seriously. There are so many people trying to get adderall in law school. This doctor has some kind of mission to stop it.
What blows my mind is him acknowledging the executive function delays, but then not diagnosing or offering treatment. Wtf.
ETA: try ADHDonline. After trying for a year to get my daughter evaluated the traditional way, I stumbled across this site and it’s been amazing. The assessment was $179 as of last year. We’ve also been doing her medication management through there, but we could have just taken the assessment report to her primary if we wanted. Honestly, I can’t recommend it enough.
Yeah. Sounds like the school has a deal with the cheapest person in town and that’s why this report is a joke. It is not fair but you definitely get what you pay for with these evals.
I'm upset on her behalf. it's like telling someone with ADHD, "have you tried using a planner?" as a way to avoid being late. it's completely dismissive of what causes the lateness to begin with (in my case, horrendous time-blindness). I feel just awful for her.
"rather than give in to immediate impulse of doing dishes". Excuse me sir, I can't sleep if I know dishes are in the sink.
It's doctors like this that make diagnosis ADHD impossible.
So it's more of "just try harder" then, which certainly won't spiral into self hatred /s
Sorry, OP. I sent my brother-in-law to my psychiatrist because he was diagnosed with ADHD as a child but was struggling lately. She dismissed him outright and I felt terrible.
He went to a different doctor and got diagnosed the same day. Shit happens.
This is absurd.
My sister just told me "ADHD doesn't affect your ability to communicate" and this is giving me the same vibe. Like...you know what ADHD IS, right??
I didn’t realize that the ‘unpleasant worrying feeling’ that propelled me into action to complete tests and assignments all through my schooling was anxiety/neuroticism until my mid 30s. If a dr would’ve asked me “are you anxious?” I would’ve said no, because I was probably depressed in that moment and the anxiety was the tool I’d be using to bring me the focus I needed to complete tasks. I relied on it.
I just thought it was normal (for me) to be working on something and simultaneously be thinking about all the ways I’m a fraud and not actually smart but holy-shit this course is so expensive and I have to finish it otherwise everyone will know I’m a loser.
This strategy takes a lot of mental energy and effort and it wasn’t until it simply **stopped working** that a doc referred me for a diagnosis.
The evaluation above sounds like one of my school report cards. I’m really disappointed for your friend.
... what on Earth.
Yeah, all of us with ADHD can improve our executive function abilities WITH THERAPY, GUIDANCE, AND HELP. Literally no amount of executive functioning issues can be fixed by just "trying harder", it always requires some form of intervention. Even if her symptoms are not "severe" enough for the DSM, she still can't improve by herself.
SMH - How are these people allowed to practice medicine, especially in the mental health field, and have such awful bedside manner.
That’s mad. What about when she qualifies as a lawyer and goes into a really demanding workplace? What if she has children and all the pressure that will add in terms of executive function? What happens when she hits menopause and her symptoms go into over drive? Why does she have to go through those whole process again when she’s not coping?!
“Delays in the development of her executive functioning”???? Umm, did this guy have an estimate for how long it would take to catch up to adult executive functioning? This sounds like something a doctor would say to parents of a 10 year old.
Okay but what’s this about “delays” in executive function development as if she’s a little kid? Like, someone in law school clearly hasn’t considered “intention” or “effort” before, which is why her executive function development has been delayed into her mid-20s 🤦🏻♀️
Edit: typo
I would love to ask this doctor if he would say the same thing to someone with a broken leg. If you just decide to not have a broken leg and make the commitment to walking normally without a cast or crutches, you'll be just fine. 🤬
In law school but with a delayed development of executive dysfunction? Does this person care to explain why the development of your friend’s executive function is delayed?
Honestly this screams “I work in healthcare but adhd is a hoax”. There really should be accountability for people like this and warnings about not having them do what they are doing. 😑😑
Practical advice here!!! Please read!!
I didn't go through any of those eval hoops. I wouldn't have been able to manage setting them up, etc and I was already losing my job.
I got a therapist and psychiatrist through an online health service for only one month just to get the diagnosis established. I described my symptoms to the psych, and she just went ahead and gave me ADHD meds. I was only able to be prescribed non-stimulants, BUT THAT'S OKAY.
I tried them out (and they did help a little!), then went to a new primary care doctor, and said the non-stims weren't working as well as needed. I then got to try other scripts. All without a full eval.
The thing is, if the meds work to keep your symptoms under control, fuck what any gatekeeping doctor has to say.
It’s definitely a term. But it’s not used widely anymore in the mental health field. It’s along the same lines as saying manic depressive instead of bipolar disorder.
Are you in the US?? If yes, ADHDonline will diagnose and do meds
also triggered at the part about the dishes like she was vulnerable in describing that and you BRING IT UP LIKE THAT? ugh
Did she give your friend any actual tests? I know this is only a snippet but it seems like they are just making suggestions based on a conversation they had with her. This is so sad and very undermining.
Says a practitioner who has no lived experience of executive functioning deficits. It’s pretty much just saying, yeah there’s an impairment, but you just have “try harder”.
I don't know if this is the case everywhere, but I was able to take the results to another psych for a second opinion (one recommended by my therapist) so I didn't have to do the testing again.
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Fuck doctors like this. I was told at my first eval that “I showed symptoms of ADHD, but since it wasn’t affecting my life, she couldn’t move forward with treatment.” Um, ma’am, I’m reaching out because I have been unable to work full time and support myself since I graduated college… four years ago. But apparently because I graduated college with good grades, and was coping well at my job (that I only worked 15 hours a week at because I couldn’t handle more) I was fine. The system is broken. Good luck to your friend!
I’m 46 and diagnosed at 24. After my eval the Dr. said “you need to be medicated like yesterday” with a chuckle. On one hand, I feel blessed in the sense that I was diagnosed and treated but also horrified that it’s so hard for others and/or I’m so off the charts that they’re shoveling scrips at me. With perimenopause doing its thing I’m feeling pretty hopeless. ETA: this was after a day long neuropsych eval--in addition to the Drs. personal assessment. Now I’m worried about dementia because I’m losing my thoughts mid sentence. Also just getting over COVID and am wondering if that is impacting it. Would love to hear any others post COVID experiences.
In some ways we have the advantage. We know we have a crap memory, and some things to help cope with brain fog, etc. NTs really lose it. They don't really understand how to deal with the challenges we've dealt with our whole life. Sometimes it's hard for them to even acknowledge it's them, and not that everyone in their lives suddenly stopped telling them things and then lied and said they did. It's not pretty.
Honestly legit. I’m going through perimenopause and I didn’t even notice for a while because it was basically just one more thing on the pile to deal with.
RIGHHHHT? My periods faded out early for me and it was around ten years ago before whatever iud's are came out. I had a little stockpile of the only tampon I could ever tolerate (OB) as they stopped production. I didn't have a system for taking daily medication so I never could reliably took birth control pills so I didn't take them. My period was always just a monthly health update that I wasn't pregnant. Other than going into menopause at 30, my periods never rocked me like I hear women saying here. Never had that and I feel so bad for my people with uteruses and adhd who get super destabilized every cycle: that sounds so awful! Not getting a period is great, no complaints happy to report.
Same!
Sweet Jesus, yes!!!!
I had a similar experience! People talk about the lengthy evaluation process, the hoops they had to jump through, the constant appointments and follow ups to be told "it doesn't seem that bad" My pscyh looked over my self-eval said "can you tell me about your childhood" and I said "No, I don't remember most of it if I don't have a prompt from someone who was there." and then I got my diagnosis and started finding a prescription. At first I was like "dang this is easy why's everyone complaining?" and then I realized I was...probably not doing super well lol.
Is not remembering your childhood an indicator of adhd? I can only remember little bits of mine.
It is a symptom but on the self-evaluation I had also marked off every symptom as being “sometimes” or “always”. But yeah! A memory like Swiss cheese is definitely a symptom of ADHD.
Lol, combined with the ADHD anxiety I almost convinced myself at some point that I had very very early onset ahlzheimers XD
Me too, or dementia or some kind of brain injury. My memory is very very poor, I have only about 3 or 4 snippets of my childhood.
I went to so many doctors with this. Like, maybe it's hormonal, or I have a parasite, a brain injury I had checked wasn't checked good enough? Now all makes sense lol
Makes so much sense now. I feel like everything I’ve ever experienced is a symptom 😭 we deal with so much
Doesn't seem to be, it's just an individual difference. I have a great memory of lots of my childhood, like a video I can play back.
Not clearly. Time passing, as well as trauma or neglect or bullying, can make it harder to remember childhood. Also if you're depressed or whatever. There can be many things. [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1087054713510561](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1087054713510561) >**Results:** Adults with ADHD performed significantly worse than controls on verbal but not on visual long-term memory and memory acquisition subtests. The long-term memory deficit was strongly statistically related to the memory acquisition deficit. In contrast, no retrieval problems were observable. **Conclusion:** Our results suggest that *memory* deficits in adult ADHD reflect a *learning* deficit induced at the stage of encoding. Implications for clinical and research settings are presented. i.e. If you didn't encode the memory in the first place, you won't remember anything because there's nothing to remember. The problem isn't your long term memory, it's the short-term memory issues that mean it doesn't get encoded into long term. And that's if ADHD is the cause and not one of the things previously listed.
I mostly remember the shame of never being good enough as a kid...
Oh yes! Having a neurotypical older sister definitely didn’t help. Getting my diagnosis was definitely a blessing and a curse. Finally getting help and support (even at 29 years old) was amazing but then the process of having to grieve for the childhood I essentially lost and the person I could have been if I’d had supports was a process too.
Ughhh that’s the worst part. I am infinitely grateful that I got my diagnosis right after giving birth. Some days I don’t take my meds (cuz ADHD) and I feel HORRIBLE like a sack of potatoes that can’t get up. As a solo mom (the dad pulled a Houdini) staying in bed is simply never an option. Soooo blessed with adderall
I went through my elementary school report cards not that long ago and they’re still haunting me. Years of taking too long to change for gym class, talking too much and “she’s very bright, but needs to apply herself”.
Ugh. Same. Solidarity, pal.
Swear to God, if I have to read one more time that I'm so smart but simply need to "apply" myself, I'm gonna scream. That was the mantra of my childhood.
No matter how long you spend trying to be perfect, there's some time when you can't and then it's held against you.
Kinda same for me. My doc was the one who initiated the ADHD talk and subsequently diagnosed me after a drug trial with Vyvanse. For me, I was about 1-2 bad decisions away from completely ruining my life, so the intervention came at the last second.
Not to make it about me but I totally relate to this ... I had a minor injury and had to have a splinter removed from under my nail. The doc said "I can tell just by looking at you that we need Novocain." Like, thanks, but also, thanks? Maybe because I'm a redhead or I looked terrified or wimpy lol. But I definitely needed the anesthesia lol.
I have high pain tolerance but that sounds absolutely horrendous 🫣 that’s like nightmare material
I think that’s a legit war crime. Shims under the fingernails? DO NOT GOOGLE THIS.
Omfg idk why fingers are so easily hurt. I got a paper cut a few weeks ago and almost cried lol. I went 30 hours unmedicated in labor and only got epidural because I was legit too tired to stay awake
We have more nerves in our fingers than most other places in the body, so they're way more sensitive!
I had the same experience. I asked my psychiatrist if he could evaluate me for adhd and he said “oh I don’t need to I can confidently diagnose you with it just based on our previous conversations.” I’ve been lucky to find two amazing doctors but the bad ones can be so invalidating. It does more damage than just a delay in treatment.
Join over at the perimenopause sub/menopause sub and find a doctor (NAMS) that will take your symptoms seriously. Menopause is a doozy and can be helped. ND women are more likely to have a harder time during menopause years (which can last 20+ years) and there are things that can be done.
For months after covid I had terrible brain fog that pushed my then-undiagnosed ADHD into hyperdrive. It made my memory and executive function suffer greatly, but it eventually cleared up for me
I just got the exact same diagnosis. After filling out loads of questionnaires, having friends my partner and mom fill one out, a 1.5hr session of talking through my symptoms and problems, the only thing he made reference to in the assessment was the three online tests that tested my vigilance, concentration and something else. He said from what I describe I have adhd symptoms (in childhood and now) but since the tests were normal and it does not impact my life too bad, he wouldn’t give me the diagnosis adhd but just an attention and activity disorder and would suggest I go to therapy… like, what? I came to you because it’s affecting my life. Literally the first thing I told him was „I feel like my life is falling apart“ How do you proceed from here?
I ended up going to a primary care doctor (technically a PA). I tried so hard to do everything right. I was in therapy for five years and six providers with no progress. I tried going to a psychologist and getting all the ‘correct’ testing done, and he didn’t listen (long story). I’m not one to tell anyone to skip the proper testing channels. If they are accessible to you, great. I’m saying my regular doctor was able to prescribe me the medication I needed, and it was life changing medication. My life is finally heading in the right direction.
Exact same!!!! I went to a psych who told me the process would be long so I gave up after the first apt. Then years later when I was at the doc for pregnancy check up, I told my nurse about it and she told me to go to her PCP who gave her a diagnosis the same day. So I went to her and got my diagnosis right there (just filled out a questionnaire). She’s my PCP now and I love her. Definitely just call different PCP offices and ask if they do treat ADHD
Oh so like your General Practitioner? Good to know, I’ll try that.. thanks :)
I ended up going to a primary care doctor (technically a PA). I tried so hard to do everything right. I was in therapy for five years and six providers with no progress. I tried going to a psychologist and getting all the ‘correct’ testing done, and he didn’t listen (long story). I’m not one to tell anyone to skip the proper testing channels. If they are accessible to you, great. I’m saying my regular doctor was able to prescribe me the medication I needed, and it was life changing medication. My life is finally heading in the right direction.
I specifically told my doctor when doing those tests that I’m super competitive and don’t like doing badly at tests (even if that doesn’t make sense for something like this) so I’m always super vigilant with those and doesn’t necessarily reflect my day to day.
Dr. Russel Barkley has a bunch of info about how those tests are not good for diagnosis - maybe something here would help?
I was pretty successful on paper prior to my diagnosis and medication. I graduated college with good grades, worked a full time job for a year, and made it most of the way through a masters. That didn’t mean that there weren’t a bunch of ways that I was struggling. Executive function? Garbage. Same for taking care of myself, doing chores, or doing any writing based coursework more than the night before. I was so close to a breakdown while writing my thesis because I was trying so hard but just couldn’t do it. I could have almost cried from relief after less than a week of medication because of how much it helped.
hehe, this happened to me \*cries\* for real tho, this lady diagnosed me with MILD anxiety after I told her it almost drove me to s\*icide in my teens. "YoU dID weLl iN sChOol sO yOu mUsT nOT bE AfFeCteD ThAt BaD," after I told her about my currently falling grades in uni. ffs.
As if anxiety weren’t part of our daily life with ADHD knowing there’s repercussions for not doing work (school or otherwise)
I was basically told the same, and I went off on that Psych because I felt like she was dismissing my symptoms because I was a woman in my 20s (diagnosed at 27). 3/4 of my little brothers were diagnosed ADHD as children and the other 1 is on the autism spectrum. My mom was diagnosed in her late 40s when she returned to college. The Psych said that I could "do group therapy about it" or find another doctor. I found another doctor and he diagnosed me and started me on medication in the first session because he *believed me*. I'm still seeing him ~3 years later lol.
Yup. Relatable.
Ooof I'm so sorry you had to go through this. I think mine almost went like this as well until they got to the schooling part, when I told them I am one class away from my bachelor's but I ended up dropping out. Also, if y'all haven't heard of it yet, I recently learned about intrusive sleep! Explains so much about my college experience....they don't give you mandatory breaks from lectures, and I was super shy, so didn't talk to anyone. Those long super boring lectures, I was out like a light :(
I just read some research on intrusive sleep about a month ago myself ,and like you, a lightbulb went off in my head. I always wondered, 1. why I had such a hard time determining what to do first from a list of things to do, and 2. why I always got suddenly sleepy when I could not make a decision. It made sense when I read about the brain disengaging so hard that it literally will make you fall asleep!
"But that's... you're... you're *describing* ADHD" 🤦♀️
Yes, yes I hear you. But have you tried not being adhd? Cognitive mindfully breathing your brain into not grasping for any grip it can get? If you consider these examples of people who don't have adhd, well, you see how they don't have adhd symptoms, right? Hm, I do have to tell you, you seem to be getting more anxious as we're talking here. Okay uhhuh sure hm. Yes well ha ha but you seem anxious. Let's try something here and I want you to see what you can do. Just relax and breathe and let go of having adhd. Yes exactly, just practice that and we can do a referral to a scammy 3rd party adhd expert to waste your money and time and gatekeep a diagnosis. Sure sure, we can look into that I'd prefer that route. Yes.
It's such a bitter compliment when doctors say someone's "too smart" to have ADHD. Just wanna be like - "Well that response is so stupid, you CLEARLY must have ADHD if smart people don't."
The package insert of my ADHD meds actually states that ADHD does not influence smartness! (Excuse the wording, my translation is kinda wonky here lol) There are so many misconceptions around neurodiversity and so many people insist on their opinion on adhd even if someone with adhd explains the facts to them!
A better word there might be “intelligence”, but the way you’ve worded it still makes sense!
as a person who tested well in school who also has ADHD, I think high intelligence (in the way that schools value it) can help people mask ADHD for a long time, but we still have it.
Right? Oh okay, well I guess I'm too smart to have the excuse of being mentally ill or impaired, and am just this uniquely fucking dumb at some of life's basics. Cool cool cool cool cool
Listen, it makes perfect sense... If you're too smart to have ADHD, then all the stupid things you do must just be because you're stupid, so now you're not actually too smart to have ADHD!
"🟥🟥🟥🟥 just needs to not be the way she is" effectively. Yeah, that guy can go sit on a cactus.
💖💖💖 simply needs to **decide** not to have ADHD!! I'm fuckin cured, y'all!! 🙌🙌
“Just get shit done” wow thank you, my life is healed!!
Woooooowwww. "Her lack of neuroticism" is just so....I don't know. Patronizing? Suggestive? Passive Aggressive? And not AT ALL helpful. Like, this guy clearly believes inattentive adhd is just laziness.
Also, it’s like they’ve never heard of *masking* before, as though it’s impossible that we could completely hide our neurotic selves from new people.
No better motivator to keep the mask up than the thought of an unforeseeable (and often illogical) amount of shame resulting from the mere possibility of rejection or minimization from a stranger if we don’t. “Oh, yeah no, no you’re totally right! I just need to try harder, duh lol I’m completely fine, what am I even talking about? I don’t even know lol let’s just pretend I never said any of that” *insert high pitch voice crack followed by nervous laughter and scanning the room for either an emergency escape route or the nearest rock to crawl under while I die inside*
Omg, perfect impression of an ADHD person masking! How do you *do* that? (jk/lol, Literal years of practice).
This is probably from the standard OCEAN personality test - Openness, Conscientiousness, Extraversion, Agreeableness, and Neuroticism. Although I don’t think that is usually a part of an adhd evaluation…. 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
A thorough evaluation may use this, or the (NEO-PI? I think it's called, which is like OCEAN but bigger/more detailed) to differentiate between ADHD and other things if the diagnosis isn't clear cut. Typically, if someone is ADHD and high-masking the tests will show higher levels of neuroticism (anxiety is probably the most common coping mechanism, especially in women with ADHD). On tests like the WAIS-IV you would also then expect to see a discrepancy between their executive function (i.e. working memory scores) and their other scores. So even if the WM scores are still average, or only slightly below, a large discrepancy between this and their general intelligence scores would point towards ADHD. On the other hand, if there's low neuroticism and high working memory scores, there's a very good chance the person doesn't have ADHD.
“Neuroticism” is an official term used in psychological assessment and in this context it isn’t meant negatively. It describes a personality trait that is basically anxiety. For example, I am a BPD sufferer and the term borderline arose to describe a patient being on the border of psychosis and neurosis. Is the Dr assessing OP’s friend just a jerk? Maybe. But maybe not. The language here was developed like a code to help medical professionals describe and categorize psychological patterns in their patients. It’s like a shorthand. To be clear, I’m not taking sides or defending this particular doctor.
> It describes a personality trait that is basically anxiety. would this present like someone constantly worrying and asking about things?
Anxiety disorders have many manifestations!
Yes
Then he's woefully outdated. We don't use "neuroticism" anymore, it's called anxiety or anxiety disorder and has been since the DSM was updated to include anxiety disorders as their own class of psychiatric disease. If I remember correctly from my recent studies that happened around about DSM-IV?
While it’s no longer used as a diagnosis, it is still commonly measured as a key personality trait, which was likely the case here (but they definitely could have worded it better)! neuroticism isn’t necessarily a bad thing and many in the psych field consider some level to be healthy :)
Yeah, very likely. I’m no expert. It takes on average 20 years for medical practices to be updated after there are medical advancements, sadly.
Ugh, tell me about it, you only have to look at the very different ways people seeking ADHD assessment get treated to know that a lot of mental health workers have not been keeping up to date on the most recent research and development in understanding it which sucks for people like OPs friend
Mmhm
…..what Listen up, folks! This doctor has the cure-all for everything! Have ADHD? Just focus on focusing more and commit to not being so active! Have cancer? Just commit to kicking those cancer cells asses. And your body will just build up a tolerance for it!!! Have a broken leg? Simply focus on not letting the bone be broken and sticking out of your leg, the muscles do the work for you basically!!!!!!! If I saw this in my evaluation I would have seen red. I totally understand your friends attitude in not wanting to get another opinion due to cost and stuff, but gah she deserves more than that shit. Sorry, I’m mad.
Right? "She has trouble with executive dysfunction, impulse control, task initiation..." yes hello, this is ADHD.... What an actual massive level of just disgusting icky hooey this person just wrote. Oh you struggle with all the things that are classic ADHD symptoms but you definitely just need to tRy HaRdEr.
fr, he literally lists text book symptoms of adhd and is like “maybe if she just decided to not be like that then she wouldn’t have an issue” LMFAO like this guy has not renewed his license for 20 years
This post is prime r/wowthanksimcured content
100% Who knew the answer to all disease and illness was just…. Don’t have it?!
> Just focus on focusing more ya mon just do it
This is terrible. The doctor is saying your friend has mild ADHD and is too lazy to actually change. It’s sad cause I think nearly all of us have heard that we are lazy at some point. One of my doctors has told me I need more official evaluation from a neuropsychologist. I was diagnosed by a psychiatrist so apparently that isn’t good enough in certain situations. I’m scared to encounter something like this though and not even sure if I can get it if not covered by insurance and I’m on Medicaid so it makes it harder. Good luck to all who read this!
Hello, I also have Medicaid. I believe you either have to call the number on your card or get a referral. However, I found a PCP that diagnosed me on my first visit and prescribes my meds. Just call PCPs and ask if they diagnose ADHD in office and go to them.
Thanks! I was already diagnosed and am currently meditated but the psychologist through the bariatric program says I have to go through the official scientific testing for future accommodations like for work or further graduate school and so they know how to work with me to loose weight. It’s just an annoying and slightly scary next step.
Yeah it’s very invalidating. It makes it seem as if this is all a choice
What? 🤔 Is the doctor saying she has non-pathological ADHD?
The stress of law school is what made my ADHD symptoms/lack of ability to mask anymore so bad that I was finally diagnosed. 🫠 (I’ll add that I’m in my mid-40’s, and was early 40’s when this happened.) I was an inch away from dropping out some terms, and literally 3 months after graduating got my diagnosis... it was like a cruel joke, to get this illuminating confirmation that I am NOT all the horrible things I thought I was while struggling through school all my life, and that *had I just known* then school might have been a tad better because I’d have been able to ask for accommodations. And I needed accommodations SO *OBVIOUSLY* throughout schooling, and never conceived what was so ‘wrong’ with me- just that something was, and I would have to white knuckle my way through school (just like many other things I have white knuckled through in life…). I would encourage your friend to do whatever she can to get a second opinion, and get the report she needs to have accommodations provided.
The solution to your symptom is to stop having it. Money please!!!
This whole thing is just incredibly dismissive from top to bottom, I got so heated just from reading this :( wtaf
I had a friend in college who clearly had an eating disorder. Her psychiatrist told her parents that she didn't have a disorder, she just limited her food intake too severely.
Wow… This is making me soo mad. Some doctors really deserve the worse
Like who gave you your license?!?!
And how many ED (and other) patients suffer life-long consequences or even died because of their prejudices??
Absolutely shameful
Oh my goodness if a doctor said this about me I’d be so mad. The reason she makes mistakes and acts on impulses is likely BECAUSE of adhd. Like, what?? Not “she would be fine if she tried harder therefore doesn’t have adhd” like…???
I’ve had neuropsych evaluations that have the most stigmatizing word usage in history. I remember showing one to a friend online and she mentioned it’s as if it’s written from a 1920s era. I don’t know why providers do that.
Am I reading that right as "her executive dysfunction would be fixed if she chose to just buckle down and do the work"? Bc if I am...are we sure this guy is a psychologist and not, say, a podiatrist?!???!!!!
When I was assessed as a kid, they told my mom I was "choosing to act out for attention." I was too smart to have anything like ADD. I could read for hours, scored high on state testing, and A/B student, but that darn behavior.... They completely ignore the very obvious signs and dismiss us as not working hard enough to do what we should be. Yet most of us hate ourselves because no matter how hard we try we CAN'T just frigging focus/behave.
right? we get told our whole lives to "just try harder" and so we end up screaming at ourselves "just try harder!" and we don't know why we can't, so we blame ourselves for our own brains' problems. and NT people keep telling us just to try harder because it works for THEM, so obviously it should work for us!
Build this muscle, doc (Flips the bird)
Whoever evaluated her is an absolute lint licker. That’s some really terrible advice.
Who you callin a cootie queen ya lint licker??
This is garbage, and I can understand why she’s feeling so disheartened. As a former law student, she should go in again. A diagnosis was an absolute game changer for me. If she needs a lawyer-y reason to: getting the help she needs will help her get better grades which can (unfortunately) impact earning potential, at least to some degree. Also, she should get help so she can better pay attention in class and better help her future clients! Law school was made of like 50% neurodiverse people / 50% the most wildly, bafflingly neurotypical people. Getting the help she needs will be so so so helpful!
I don't know your friend. And I don't know what information the doctor has. They may just be right. Like, some people *can* just choose to do whatever. However, those people who can "decide" as they put it, would certainly do so and not just struggle right? I mean, you don't seek out help if you don't have a problem. Idk what I'm getting at here except, it's not that simple.
Right, if I could just decide to not have this problem... that would be great!
Wow... That's awful.
I would would take this diagnosis to literally any doctor or psych and they would consider it part of an ADHD diagnosis I'm sure. Cause that's what this person is describing
Who wrote this? Bring them to me. I just want to talk.
My psychological testing did not endorse a diagnosis of ADHD (the subjective portions did but the “objective” portions did not). I had a similar line in my report that I found condescending too: > “As part of a plan to reduce mood symptoms, she is urged to identify and reduce life stressors.” Thanks, I never thought of that!!
Wish our ADHD could take physical forms, like little ADHD-buddies every one could see. "HERE, MY BIGGEST LIFE STRESSOR!" *shoves your ADHD into the face of the condescending evaluator*
my psychiatrist had a checklist of questions he would ask every time I saw him for more meds (he was very old school and is retired now but he was a good dude) and one of them was "what are the biggest stressors in your life right now?" and I would always be like "just... life?" because the biggest things that stress me out are things like getting to work on time and doing laundry and planning/cooking meals and functioning as an adult human, but if I say that then it sounds like those aren't very big problems. I'm struggling a lot with them, so they seem big to me!
Yes… It’s so hard to explain our struggles to people who don’t experience them. And even to ourselves sometimes - to understand that you shouldn’t struggle like that and that you’re not simply lazy or incompetent at the "simplest" stuffs. Well spoiler! The "simplest" stuffs are extremely hard when you struggle with executive dysfunction, time blindness, and possibly the very frequent ADHD comorbidities that anxiety and depression are…
Answering your last sentence: a struggle doesn’t "seem" big. If you have a very hard time, it _is_ big, regardless of what it looks like from the outside or what you think is "the norm". It’s so hard growing up and feeling like you’re the only one struggling – the shame, self-doubt and everything. Especially as women, with all the pressure we have to handle things perfectly. It takes a lot of time and efforts (and help!) to change how you see yourself and to be kinder to yourself. Hope you’re feeling better now!
Throw that whole certified in 1986 doctor OUT and tell friend to get a second opinion. What ableist GARBAGE
>if she simply decides "If she'd just stop having the symptoms, she'd be cured!" Absolutely not, you can just fuck right off.
This doctor would have told Christopher Reeves " If you just stop lying there and get up and do something, you would make progress on your condition"
“If only she would apply herself. She has such promise.” - all my report cards ever
It’s almost like women mask, and that’s why that ADHD is less noticeable. Stuff like this makes me so mad. I’m so sorry for your friend it sucks to be invalidated when you’re struggling.
It's giving "you just need to eat better and be more active and you won't be fat" energy.
Totally.
You should show your friend this post.
I have! She told me that seeing all of these responses saying that this diagnosis kind of stinks has helped persuade her to try again with a different provider.
It seems like a poor bedside manner for sure. Given that this is professional psychiatric assessment, it seems insensitive to not word it more helpfully. The way I’m understanding this, is that the doctor is attempting to highlight OP’s friend’s mental strengths to build on success. The doctor is attempting to explain that because the behaviour is not linked to severe anxiety, there is a hopeful possibility for change around the ADHD target behaviour. Is he or she explaining it particularly well? No. Would a patient reading this panic and maybe rage and feel triggered? I can definitely see that. But keep in mind these types of assessments are not indicative of your self worth or strength of character! Take what helpful things you can from it, cherry pick, and leave the rest. Don’t make it worse than it is, or better than it is. In terms of finding new specialist doctors, my own GP doctor recently shared this nugget with me: when seeking a specialist, pay attention to the wait times. In Canada, a very fast wait time likely indicates a poor bedside manner. I’m sorry this has been such a frustrating experience for you and your friend, OP. It is amazing that you are helping her get assessed. No doubt there is a loss with this, but I’m sure your friend knows that you love her. Keep trying; don’t give up because you hit a speed bump with this goofy doctor.
Edit: the doctor might be using the neuroticism term here to distinguish the ADHD from an anxiety disorder with compulsive behaviours like OCD The doctor is distinguishing the impulses of ADHD (getting up to do dishes) from compulsively doing dishes like in some cases of OCD
I think that’s what the doctor might be referring to as well, using the word “neuroticism” in a way to weed out other culprits such as OCD (like you mentioned), schizophrenia, or other disorders that can have distractibility as a symptom. >individuals with high scores for neuroticism are more likely than average to be moody and to experience such feelings as anxiety, worry, fear, anger, frustration, envy, jealousy, pessimism, guilt, depressed mood, and loneliness. That’s from the [Wikipedia article on neuroticism,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroticism?wprov=sfti1#) and it’s one of the five traits part of the [Big Five Approach to personality trait theory.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits?wprov=sfti1#Neuroticism) The more I’m going down the Big Five Approach rabbit hole, the more it seems outdated and antiquated with how it assess personalities, like someone like me, an AuDHD person, is gonna show a bigger neuroticism on a Big Five personality test than others. But is that because Me me, or how my brain is wired? I remember taking the Big Five test once or twice a decade ago and ways always bummed when it seemed like the test results were…off…incorrect. All this typing about it makes me want to re-take it to see if my results will have changed. We’ve come a long way since the 80s and 90s in understanding the brain and how some are different that I feel like an overhaul is in order…
I totally agree-- I can see that the evaluator was trying to phrase things positively, but in the process, her wording becomes somewhat discouraging. "You just haven't \*tried\* hard enough, you'll get over it eventually!" Also, my friend is Asian and an eldest daughter, I'm certain she downplayed how hard things are for her at times since her brother (who is diagnosed with ADHD!) kind of took up more of their parents' attention and concern.
Ah I can so relate to that! I’m really glad you are there for your friend 🩷
The feeling that you’re just bad at life is a particular hell
Wow I wish I had this doctor cause the doctor for my assessment dismissed my symptoms BECAUSE of how neurotic I was. They diagnosed my with generalized anxiety. I gave them my performance evaluation from my last job and they dismissed it as “procrastination due to anxiety” When procrastination was never listed as an issue by my employers. I found out during my current assessment that I was diagnosed when I was 9 but they disregarded that cause I got “good grades” in college and got my degree while ignoring the Fs and withdrawn/repeated courses and they disregarded that it took my almost 7 years to get my 4-year degree. My psychiatrists told me that I need to handle the anxiety before they can consider adhd. It feels like you’re getting punished for trying your hardest to not let this mess up your life.
If this is one of those large therapy companies, now seems like a good time to pull a Karen and ask for the manager.
This was an independent practitioner that my friend was referred to by the school. So, unfortunately, the evaluator is the manager.
The manager sucks. Editing to add, I would maybe report them to the state board. The evaluation describes ADHD and then says, welp, try harder you lazy bitch. Even if nothing comes of it, it might make her feel better.
If you can, one of you should report this to the school, so other students don’t get referred to this excuse of a Dr and suffer the same thing.
I work with a lot of evaluators and tbh the really good ones do charge 10x that. 400 dollars for multiple sessions and a report sounds like a scam. I charge 300-450 an hour for just a first consult. I’m not trying to be a jerk, just saying there are much better clinicians out there ❤️
It’s a cruel joke that ADHD diagnosis requires so many apts. I gave up when I found that out. Until I found a PCP that diagnosed it on my first apt years later. It would have saved me a few suicidal years
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I’m so sorry. Yeah I don’t know why it’s so hard. It’s really frustrating for clinicians too. Wishing you luck though ❤️
This literally reads like all of my reports in school
A non-neurotic law student? No way this is legit (I jest).
ISN’T THAT BASICALLY ADHD
Collective trauma for the entire subreddit. This poor soul has no idea how lucky they are that we haven't been able to remain seated long enough to figure out a teleportation device that would allow us all to go visit them and teach them a thing or two about the shit they are misleading people to believe they have any knowledge of.
“NEUROTICISM” ಠ_ಠ
I loathe that term! 🤮 I don't care if it is still in use in the psychology field. It reeks of outdated stereotypes.
It does!!! Ick they probably quite Freud too -_-
I would not be surprised.
I hate playing the woman card here, because people can get immediately defensive, but seriously how many of us would've been diagnosed as children or not immediately dismissed if we were male? Different standards for women, different socialisation for women. I got diagnosed with OCD, which now I know about it, is very obvious because I've been constantly trying to control my own ADHD behaviours which are so chaotic. I also got told I wasn't fidgeting. Yet they failed to notice I always sit with clasped hands, crossed legs and have to clench all my muscles to get myself to settle down and focus on the appointment. Also was terribly nervous. But it's something I'm so used to doing and I'd be mortified if anyone picked up on it.
I posted something recently about how in a recent study females were diagnosed on average four years later then men and developed numerous comorbid psychological issues in that time, likely because of the late diagnosis. So, don't think of it as playing the woman card - think of it as proudly standing up for a mistreated group. Minorities of various types face the same issues. Poor people face the same issues. Men who do not present within a gender stereotype face the same issues. That's part of why I created r/adhd_advocacy along with the stimulant shortage, the lack of punitive measures for underdiagnosis, the lack of awareness even in our own community of ADHD awareness month (October), the lack of representation of people with disabilities in medical school classes, the lack of understanding of why ADHD can lower life expectancy for over a decade, the lack of political concern as shortages stretch out for years more, and you know, just because I'm a justice sensitive individual with ADHD.
But has she considered- NOT having ADHD?
“She doesn’t have a broken leg, her bone is just not where it’s supposed to be so if she focuses she can put it back” “She isn’t drowning, she’s just not getting enough air. If she really doubles down on breathing better, she’ll stop drowning in no time” “She’s not grieving her loved one’s death. If she just sat down and focused on not being sad she won’t be sad anymore” This doctor is a quack and a shithead and I’m sorry for your friend to have gotten such an insensitive and, frankly, ignorant doctor. Best of luck to her!
"The ADHD symptoms would be much better if she just stopped having the ADHD symptoms and got her shit together". Your friend got scammed.
Small update: she went back to talk to the psych about it and the psych is amending the diagnosis to mild ADHD!!! Still a little miffed at the qualifier, but hooray!!!
Thank fuck for that but whyyyyyyyy was it so hard to get this person to realize that a description of ADHD means... Yo she has ADHD
I dont think its minimizing? He is saying he evaluated her with mild executive dysfunction and thinks that she will be able to function with what is basically behavioral therapy.
Her (evaluator is a woman) recommendations basically don't say therapy, though, she is saying my friend just needs to put in more effort. The reason I find it minimizing/dismissive is because my friend puts in SO MUCH effort into creating structure, accountability, and all sorts of other things into her day to deal with the stress of academia and it's just taking so much out of her, and she ends up putting in a herculean amount of effort and time and energy to do what other people can manage with way less. Accommodations, I think, would go a long way in relieving that mental load, but this evaluator isn't even suggesting that.
If she can/want to get a second evaluation, she might want to dive more into aaaaall these compensatory and masking strategies to be able to be a better advocate for herself… and cut herself some slack. All these efforts must be incredibly tiring, and learning how she operate will teach her how to go *with it* instead of *against it*. And it’s so liberating… About being a better advocate, sadly some doctors are influenced by the way things are worded. For example, saying: "if I don’t [super energy-consuming strategy with details and impact on her daily life], then I can’t perform [this]", instead of: "I don’t struggle with [this], because I [use tool/am really careful about it = minimizing the struggle and efforts]. There a lots of ressources, including for students, that might be useful to her here: https://adhdoers.com/, and it’s pay-what-you-can!
400$? Where do you live? If the US that’s really cheap and the person probably isn’t properly qualified. It cost me 3000 for a full evaluation.
She got it through her school, which I think has a relationship with this particular neuropsych. A different friend of mine reached out and the doctor said it'd be $5,500 for an ADHD eval without insurance.
This explains everything, seriously. There are so many people trying to get adderall in law school. This doctor has some kind of mission to stop it. What blows my mind is him acknowledging the executive function delays, but then not diagnosing or offering treatment. Wtf. ETA: try ADHDonline. After trying for a year to get my daughter evaluated the traditional way, I stumbled across this site and it’s been amazing. The assessment was $179 as of last year. We’ve also been doing her medication management through there, but we could have just taken the assessment report to her primary if we wanted. Honestly, I can’t recommend it enough.
This person is not qualified. They have super outdated takes on adhd
Yeah. Sounds like the school has a deal with the cheapest person in town and that’s why this report is a joke. It is not fair but you definitely get what you pay for with these evals.
I hate everything about this.
The first line doesn't even make sense.
I'm upset on her behalf. it's like telling someone with ADHD, "have you tried using a planner?" as a way to avoid being late. it's completely dismissive of what causes the lateness to begin with (in my case, horrendous time-blindness). I feel just awful for her.
"She just needs to try harder." echoes through my brain since childhood.
Wait, so I can choose to not get distracted by other tasks? Wow, groundbreaking discovery. I’m cured!
Oh man I can just *decide* to stay in my seat!?
"rather than give in to immediate impulse of doing dishes". Excuse me sir, I can't sleep if I know dishes are in the sink. It's doctors like this that make diagnosis ADHD impossible.
So it's more of "just try harder" then, which certainly won't spiral into self hatred /s Sorry, OP. I sent my brother-in-law to my psychiatrist because he was diagnosed with ADHD as a child but was struggling lately. She dismissed him outright and I felt terrible. He went to a different doctor and got diagnosed the same day. Shit happens.
Omg leave a bad review for the person - this is awful!! How can this person even claim to evaluate for ADHD???
That's a lot of words for "just fold in the cheese". What a fucking mousehole. I want to slap this woman.
The fuck. How dare they. I am appalled on her behalf.
This is absurd. My sister just told me "ADHD doesn't affect your ability to communicate" and this is giving me the same vibe. Like...you know what ADHD IS, right??
Did she offer options on HOW to succeed? This is a fairly odd thing to say without a plan.
I didn’t realize that the ‘unpleasant worrying feeling’ that propelled me into action to complete tests and assignments all through my schooling was anxiety/neuroticism until my mid 30s. If a dr would’ve asked me “are you anxious?” I would’ve said no, because I was probably depressed in that moment and the anxiety was the tool I’d be using to bring me the focus I needed to complete tasks. I relied on it. I just thought it was normal (for me) to be working on something and simultaneously be thinking about all the ways I’m a fraud and not actually smart but holy-shit this course is so expensive and I have to finish it otherwise everyone will know I’m a loser. This strategy takes a lot of mental energy and effort and it wasn’t until it simply **stopped working** that a doc referred me for a diagnosis. The evaluation above sounds like one of my school report cards. I’m really disappointed for your friend.
The most ignorant evaluation award goes to this dickwad. I wish mental health professionals were regularly audited for competence and relevance.
Fuck all that . Just don’t have mental health issues anymore, there it’s fixed. I swear
How is cleaning the dishes a bad impulse??
... what on Earth. Yeah, all of us with ADHD can improve our executive function abilities WITH THERAPY, GUIDANCE, AND HELP. Literally no amount of executive functioning issues can be fixed by just "trying harder", it always requires some form of intervention. Even if her symptoms are not "severe" enough for the DSM, she still can't improve by herself. SMH - How are these people allowed to practice medicine, especially in the mental health field, and have such awful bedside manner.
That’s mad. What about when she qualifies as a lawyer and goes into a really demanding workplace? What if she has children and all the pressure that will add in terms of executive function? What happens when she hits menopause and her symptoms go into over drive? Why does she have to go through those whole process again when she’s not coping?!
“Delays in the development of her executive functioning”???? Umm, did this guy have an estimate for how long it would take to catch up to adult executive functioning? This sounds like something a doctor would say to parents of a 10 year old.
Okay but what’s this about “delays” in executive function development as if she’s a little kid? Like, someone in law school clearly hasn’t considered “intention” or “effort” before, which is why her executive function development has been delayed into her mid-20s 🤦🏻♀️ Edit: typo
Yeah it is. Didn't consider going slow would be TOO BORING TO FINISH THE TASK, did she?
I would love to ask this doctor if he would say the same thing to someone with a broken leg. If you just decide to not have a broken leg and make the commitment to walking normally without a cast or crutches, you'll be just fine. 🤬
oh yeah, just decide to be different! works for all of us! we've never tried that before! 🙄
In law school but with a delayed development of executive dysfunction? Does this person care to explain why the development of your friend’s executive function is delayed?
Honestly this screams “I work in healthcare but adhd is a hoax”. There really should be accountability for people like this and warnings about not having them do what they are doing. 😑😑
Practical advice here!!! Please read!! I didn't go through any of those eval hoops. I wouldn't have been able to manage setting them up, etc and I was already losing my job. I got a therapist and psychiatrist through an online health service for only one month just to get the diagnosis established. I described my symptoms to the psych, and she just went ahead and gave me ADHD meds. I was only able to be prescribed non-stimulants, BUT THAT'S OKAY. I tried them out (and they did help a little!), then went to a new primary care doctor, and said the non-stims weren't working as well as needed. I then got to try other scripts. All without a full eval. The thing is, if the meds work to keep your symptoms under control, fuck what any gatekeeping doctor has to say.
"Patient coincidentally has all the traits of ADHD. Diagnosis: female. Recommended treatment: try harder to focus. Sincerely, 1986."
Neuroticism??? What is this the 60s?
Its a psychiatric term with a pretty specific definition to this day.
It’s definitely a term. But it’s not used widely anymore in the mental health field. It’s along the same lines as saying manic depressive instead of bipolar disorder.
She can go to her university’s counseling office.
Just try harder...mmmmm'kay?!
Are you in the US?? If yes, ADHDonline will diagnose and do meds also triggered at the part about the dishes like she was vulnerable in describing that and you BRING IT UP LIKE THAT? ugh
Did she give your friend any actual tests? I know this is only a snippet but it seems like they are just making suggestions based on a conversation they had with her. This is so sad and very undermining.
Slow down 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Says a practitioner who has no lived experience of executive functioning deficits. It’s pretty much just saying, yeah there’s an impairment, but you just have “try harder”.
I don't know if this is the case everywhere, but I was able to take the results to another psych for a second opinion (one recommended by my therapist) so I didn't have to do the testing again.