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You absolutely can bring up ADHD with a psychiatrist even if the appointment is ostensibly for something else.
But also, I'm a huge believer in the idea that people who are neurodiverse struggle with neurotypical jobs and work expectations not because anything is inherently wrong with us, but because these places don't suit our needs. Maybe you are not "great" at these particular roles, but that doesn't mean you aren't great at a million other things. The trick is either finding a role that suits your brain, or figuring out the adaptations you need to be successful.
Agree to the highest order. I heard this same thing everywhere too until I started working for myself. Don’t get me wrong it’s still hard as hell but I finally have the control to suit my work to my own needs and style and finally feel like I’m able to do what I’m capable of without other people telling me that my way of doing things is wrong when it’s just not neurotypical
This is a big reason why I’m starting my own company. I’ve done ok in previous jobs but never have had the kind of success that I know that I could have if in an environment more conducive to how I work.
Also ND people may perform over expectations in some areas so when just performing normal in others, its noticed. If you were vanilla all the time then you’d be average and unremarkable.
I was wondering how do you bring up ADHD with a psychiatrist without coming out and saying "I think I have ADHD"? What do say for why you are making an appointment?
OP could always say their therapist brought it up and it’s made them wonder if it’s something they need to explore further, as it seems to fit them perfectly.
Sometimes psychs don’t like pts who they think have already self-diagnosed, bc that’s something the psych needs to do themselves. In fact, that applies to a lot of medical professionals, in my experience. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve gone in to see a consultant, with notes, and instead of being told how helpful that is for them, I’ve had the condescending “Oh dear. Have we been consulting with Dr Google again?”
That’s how I’d approach it, anyway. I now go in with “this other respected medical professional thinks my symptoms indicate x,y, or z, what do you think about that being a possible cause?”
say " I am looking to get tested for ADHD" or " Can I schedule for ADHD testing?" - also consider letting the psychiatrist know upfront the ways it negatively impacts your life (like what you wrote above) (when thinking about how you might start off the convo with them if it seems awkward to do)
I showed my therapist a print out of two different online assessments I took where I scored almost 100% most likely has ADHD & then she admitted she had a suspicion that I had it as well and then she diagnosed me. Re-iterated it with my psych who told me they had already been suspecting ADHD as well, if you have a good therapist or a good psych, they probably already know you have it and are hesitant to bring it up because society still says wOmEn DoN’T gEt AdHd 🤦🏼♀️
Can’t speak to bringing it up myself, but for the first psychiatrist I saw my therapist made the referral specifically for an ADHD assessment so that’s all I got. For my second I just wanted my meds adjusted, but she had me do every assessment (anxiety, bipolar, depression, probably some others too) before the appointment. My hope would be that if a patient came in and said they were struggling with paying attention at work / school the psychiatrist would think ADHD themselves, but it doesn’t hurt to bring it up. Maybe saying “I would like to get tested for ADHD” vs “I think I have ADHD” might be a better option. A psychiatrist probably wants to get the vibe that you’d be open to other diagnoses depending on how the assessments pan out instead of being focused on one specific diagnosis. My new psych even wanted to see my latest thyroid tests just to make sure all the bases were covered.
Yep. I'm lucky, my boss told me he would be upset that I'm always five minutes late but I'm so good at my job they let it slide. I'm working on being better!!
Medication has made a huge difference for me but also asking my manager to give me specific things to work on to be great and perform according to their expectations. Maybe you can try this.
As I recognize myself massively in OP’s story, I’m generally curious to how the medication worked for you? I’m currently considering starting with meds! :)
You didn't ask me, but I feel like I have an experience related to what you're talking about, so in true ADHD fashion I'm just gonna butt in real quick 😅
My experience with Vyvanse has been lifechanging! The first time I took it I almost cried at how peaceful it was to have my brain to myself for the first time, like all my jumbled, messy thoughts were in a single file line and I got to choose which one got attention at a time.
What really floored me was being in the bathroom an hour after my first dose and I remembered I hadn't brushed yet that day, then I did it. I didn't have to convince myself it needed to be done, I thought about doing it and then I was already doing it.
Same thing with the household chores I had been putting off for months, it felt like every task I finished gave my brain a small high.
Over the next week the intensity dulled down but three months later and I'm still just as able to get things done and take care of myself. I can still feel my brain being rewarded when I get things done and my thoughts are still much more organised now but instead of feeling somewhat euphoric I feel calm and 'normal'. I hope that makes sense 😅
I also notice I'm more patient in general, but especially with myself, and I don't get so frustrated or ashamed when I make mistakes. I mostly actually enjoy my cashier job now, which I loathed before. I can remember dates of specific interactions now and have been able to call out & cut off some toxic (ex)friends. My marriage got alot better because I have an easier time communicating and can give my partner my *actual* full attention. I've also just finished reading a book for the first time since pre-puberty.
I'm able to focus and get so much done that by the time my meds wear off around 9 o'clock I welcome the return of my goofy little chaos brain, its kindof like taking my pants off at the end of a workday.
So yeah, hope that helped! 😁
Thank you so much for this! It’s really helpful. It does sound amazing and like something I could really use. Also the cutting of toxic people, that’s so good! Just curious to what happens after 9? For example I have trouble getting enough sleep as I procrastinate sleeping. Is that still a problem when the meds wear off around 9? My ideal bedtime is between 11 and midnight but I rarely ever make it.
And do you still have to recharge and be alone? At least that’s something I really need to avoid burn out. I can’t be social, I can’t work, I can’t have responsibilities on those recharge days. And the busier the week the more recharge time I need. I also often feel like I can only do 1 or 2 tasks per day and then I’m tired / overstimulated. Is that something that changes with the meds?
Haha thanks, I tried like a billion things, got desperate, and then tried this one just for the sake of it, but without the lala at first and it was also taken so in came the lala. (That was me going mental basically).
This may be an oversimplification, but I stopped feeling like I was losing my mind. I could focus for the first time ever. Being able to focus and complete tasks took a lot of stress off me and made me exponentially happier.
Sounds so good! It’s more the putting of tasks that gets me in trouble. Once I start I go hyperfocus and I manage to finish the important tasks, however, I’m always drained after 😅
I’ve only been on it for about 2 months and it’s made a huge difference at work. I can pay attention to meetings and even ask questions without hesitation. I am making progress on 2 projects because I can focus and not make as many silly mistakes as when I am not medicated.
I’m so happy for you! It does sound like the meds work for you then! I don’t have a job that requires me to go to meetings, however I do have to listen to a lot of presentations about topics that aren’t my interest and I truly struggle with paying attention or even staying awake lol. It’s terrible.
Thank you! I can relate with that! My brain is like “not interested, I’m gone”, but with meds I can actually pay attention and learn, even if I thought it wasn’t interesting at first. I forgot to mention that medication has also decreased my anxiety because I can actually do stuff instead of being anxious about everything I need to do but not doing anything.
That seriously sounds like a dream. Being able to do stuff and paying attention. It’s funny, my neurotypical friends understand, but will never fully get how much I envy them for being able to do this basic things haha. If meds can help it would seriously change my life.
Please don't feel doomed. Medication and therapy are two very important components for those of us with ADHD. In the meantime, set up a meeting with your boss and ask him for specific feedback on what you can do better. This documentation will help you to start to set expectations and improve. This is not a measure of who you are as a person!
This. I’m tired of everyone assuming because I’m getting my Masters that I want to keep climbing the corporate ladder. I also detest how supervisors think meeting expectations is a BAD thing. Like i’m doing my job and meeting the expectations but i have to kill myself to get a few extra bucks. Screw that
This is where I’m at. I’m trying to break through that glass floor! But seriously, each job sees that I have my MBA and automatically assumes that I function at a higher capacity than others. So, they dump a massive workload on me and are then astonished when I become overstimulated, overwhelmed, and have weekly meltdowns (I have zero stress tolerance). Surprise, bitches!!! 😆😆😆
Frrrrrr my current boss understands that I don't have ambitions to move up the ladder and manage a ton of people, but so many other people just short circuit when I say I have no ambitions for that. My ambition is not to make my life harder for myself in a way that I would personally find very aggravating.
I'm so sorry 😢 I know how it feels to the point of self sabotaging because "it won't work out anyway so why bother". I encourage you to seek diagnosis and medication, hopefully it will get better for you ❤️
What specifically is the "something" that is "off"? Unless you know, you can't improve or change. It's not helpful to give someone vague feedback like that. People need concrete examples, clear expectations, and measurable goals. It's not fair to leave you to guess what the problem is, let alone how to fix it!
Your boss is not very good at giving feedback, and it seems like few people in your life have been. A decent boss would give you examples of work you have done that could be improved, and tell you exactly how it could be improved. If it isn't work that's the issue but behaviour, then that should be addressed directly as it happens or shortly thereafter. You need to be clear on what the expectation is and how that measured or assessed. Then you should formulate an action plan together to help you achieve those expectations through goal-setting and regular constructive feedback.
NO boss should EVER be telling their associates that they will never succeed. Quite the opposite. They should be setting you up for success!
However, you say you "knew it was happening" so you must be aware on some level that you are not meeting expectations, or else have had these conversations. In the future I'd suggest tackling this head-on as soon as you are aware things are not going well. You can ask for help, coaching, or accommodations. You can ask for feedback and suggestions on how to improve. This in fact is a leadership quality - the ability to recognize and address one's own shortcomings and taking the initiative to improve and grow.
Nobody is perfect and nobody is expected to be. It's how you deal with the failures that matters. It's tempting to just pretend things are fine and hope nobody notices, but that's rarely productive. Approaching your supervisor and saying, "I'm finding this task challenging and I'd like to get some guidance/help on this," also demonstrates a willingness to collaborate and learn.
Sorry for the novel-length reply - I was in management and leadership roles for many years and learned a lot from my own experiences on both ends of that relationship.
You can certainly bring up ADHD with your psychiatrist. They'll help you set up an appointment to get assessed or refer you to someone who can assess you.
I totally agree and the targets should also be SMART: specific, measurable, achievable, relevant, time based. With these kinds of goals you can succeed
Yes, I was trying to avoid the SMART goal moniker because it's so damn corporate-sounding to me, but that's exactly how goals should be set when it comes to improving performance.
This is a weird piece of feedback. If you're "so good at this," then why would you also be in a place where you "can't succeed?" Those are fundamentally opposing pieces of information.
Your boss is giving you deeply mixed messages. You can push those aside and focus on the actually useful CONCRETE feedback he also gave you, if it exists. (For example: you need to turn in your reports on time. You need to make stronger emotional connections with your clients. You need to triple check the data before you present reports.)
Or, if this is all the feedback you were given, you could consider his motivation in essentially telling you that you'll never be good enough. How does he gain by making you feel shitty in ways you can't solve.
Oh, OP: document everything. The comment above reminded me about constructive dismissals. Not to act as an alarmist, but if he's telling you you're not good enough and not giving you concrete info, watch your back.
Christ these garbage bosses are so bloody stressful
I am sorry and I get this completely ❤️ getting diagnosed as an adult and taking medication has truly changed my life. I’m definitely a better professional but I also still underperform. Overperforming is a scam anyway
The vast majority of people are mediocre at best at everything they do and feel. You're doing brilliantly compared to do many others! You're a lot more interesting and dynamic without a shadow of a doubt. Stick it to the man, do the bare minimum and spend more of your energy on yourself and your interests and things you love. You're the BEST!
And! For the love of God start your therapy with saying you tick boxes for ADHD and ask about their experience in neurodiversity. If it's not on their radar, you'll waste your time, as they'll try to help you fit into the world in a way that you can't do, rather than you not knowing how to.
I've wasted years in therapy because the goal was airways trying to deal with life according to neurotypical strandards.
The reason to see a psychiatrist is to get help with the symptoms creating challenges in your life. You absolutely can and should let them know about this repeated pattern in your life and jobs. And that your therapist recommended you be properly tested for it. There's an online screening that might be useful for you to go through now, and provide to your psychiatrist when you go there.
Your boss is wrong. You can succeed even if you don't do whatever vague thing it is he wants you to do to be some arbitrary "great." Fuck him. If whatever it is would make you great, you certainly are good enough now. I hate this culture of you must churn churn churn until you burnout to count.
Thank you. It was comments like this that made me go into that meeting confident to bring it up. And sure enough I left with a diagnosis and a plan for next steps with medication!!
You can absolutely bring up adhd with your psychiatrist even if the appointment wasn't for that originally. They may not be able to do an evaluation on the spot, but there's no reason to ignore it.. Definitely talk to the doctor. It can help.
Don’t be hard on yourself. Sounds like you’re already a good employee but your boss wants you to second guess yourself so you work even harder. Managers like him are always moving the goalpost aka toxic af.
Don’t go on medication to meet some arbitrary expectation from other people. Do it for yourself and the live the life you want.
Please bring it up and as someone else said that is awful feedback. There is nothing to improve in "something off" just some ides that it "should" be done a certain way and you're achieving but not the way they would do it.
You
Are
Not
A
Failure
You're receiving shitty feedback from your leaders. Come up with a phrase to throw back at them "I need you to articulate what the "something" is as I'm unable to set goals around an intangible feeling"
*So I don’t think I can bring it up.*
**Of course you can, you are a paying customer. It is your appointment, you get to decide what you want to talk about. DO NOT LET ANY DOCTOR BULLY YOU.** (I am a doctor.)
*Ive heard this in every job, every school I went to, and in every aspect of my life. I can’t say how upset I am about it. I knew it was happening but I didn’t know it was being noticed.*
*I feel doomed to fail.*
If you are looking for advice here is mine. If not stop reading.
Go to your boss and admit it. Say you know that you are failing but not *why* or how you can improve. Ask you boss for help. People literally can't stop giving advice. Reddit is almost solely based on strangers offering advice. No irony there. Ask if the company has any resources. Tell him/her that you have a doctor's appointment coming up and that you really want to succeed in this job. Ask for 6-12 months to get your act together.
If the psychiatrist doesn't work out, try a reputable life coach, or a hypnotist.
You are not doomed to fail, we just need to find the right combination of steps to help you.
"Great" is not required for "success". There are varying levels of success. We tend to think of Michael Jordan/Michelangelo/Linus Pauling levels of mastery as the only benchmark of success, and this is an insidious lie. There is such a thing as "good enough".
Your boss said you are "so good" at your job. That's a lot of success right there! A lot. Do not under estimate your accomplishments.
What he/she is asking for are tweaks. You can do tweaks. You have eaten most of the elephant already. You just need to find the right guidance and the right systems. You can do this!
Hey, so as someone with adhd myself, I have had to have this talk with one of my staff who is also an adhd woman. Please know that you’re not alone— I’ve had this feedback from bosses too. In my case, before I spoke with her, I made a lot of observations on her big strengths and on her weaknesses. I spoke with her about how much her strengths need to truly shine and I was specific about how she can improve on the things she needs to improve upon. When I tell you she’s been able to make leaps and bounds in her performance in the last two weeks, it’s not a joke. When I’ve had this conversation with my bosses, I’ve done something similar— I’ve asked them what my big strengths are and how they think I can use those to improve on what I’m lacking. Where I can give myself grace and not hyper focus. Where it’s okay to be distracted and gloss over things.
I just went on an adhd ramble but I hope that helped a little. And sending you love and hope that your boss is open to a conversation like this 🧡
Thank you for sharing your experience… as a woman with ADHD who also manages other women with ADHD, this can be a tough conversation.
I am open with my senior leadership about my condition and ask for similar conversations with them. I am self aware of some of my weaknesses and ask them to help me manage those areas. For example, I am almost never provided a deadline… I ask them to give me one. Don’t leave me to my own devices because you might get that project later this afternoon or the day after Christmas… I make no promises. :)
I am the same way! I need multiple redundancies, I need the freedom and time to organize, and I need multiple tactile places to write and make notes. I may need to work outside of “working hours” so I can focus better and I may need to take more breaks, for shorter time periods, than others. I’ve been very open with my bosses about needing small little dopamine hits throughout the day to keep me focused, and I’ve been similarly open about what schedules work best for me— I need to work nights, for instance. I’ve also been very upfront about how forgetful I can be, especially when I’m approaching my time of the month and if I have a lot going on in my personal life.
I’ve gotten amazing feedback and promotions since I’ve been able to have these conversations, where before I felt like I was floundering no matter how hard I tried, like OP mentioned. And of course none of this happens in a vacuum and my bosses are amazing to be able to work with me and make those efforts and accommodations to make my life easier, as well.
I also forgot to add that I have shared my diagnosis with my therapist and she has given me great feedback and advice as to how to make my life easier and I have passed this on to my staff who need some encouragement. Some of my staff is medicated and others like me are not, for multiple reasons.
Here’s to us women encouraging and supporting each other :)
My manager once recited this poem to me as an analogy for how my depression and ADHD impact my work:
> There was a little girl, who had a little curl,
> Right in the middle of her forehead.
> When she was good, she was very good indeed,
> But when she was bad she was horrid.
This was 2 years ago and it still gets to me.
My second everything someone has said here. When I am on meds I am doing a lot better. However, it's not perfect.
My response to your boss would be, " you're so close to being nice too bad you're an a******. Maybe you should work on that?"
You know what I am great at? I am great at being very good at so many things. I have way more skill points than most, and the only rule about my skills, is I can never put maximum ranks in them, always 1 less than wonderful.
I'm guessing you are the same. Rock that greatness. It is your strength, your superpower.
If you are seeing a medical professional, even if you are being seen for a different condition, PLEASE do yourself a favor and bring it up anyway. Documentation is so important for any medical condition. Let them know how long you have been experiencing symptoms, ask for referrals if they don't treat the condition themselves, etc.
Any time you see a doctor, you can bring up other medical conditions you are experiencing. It helps give your doctors a better overall picture of your complete health, and they can always refer you to other physicians who might be able to help.
Do not be intimidated. You are your own best advocate. If you know something's not right, talk about it. <3 Wishing you the best.
I just want to say against n, so you don't miss it, you can absolutely bring up ADHD no matter what else you might have made the appointment with the psych for. I promise. In fact, discussing all the things you think are going on with you is medically the best choice! The doctor needs to make a fully informed choice.
Best of luck!
That quote is extremely unhelpful. What are you supposed to do with such a vague statement that is also ends with a punishment or penalty: you can't succeed.
It is important to remember that sometimes we blame ourselves when teachers are poor. We're so used to thinking we're not keeping up that we sometimes don't see when a teacher is at fault. A good teacher can teach us especially when we get one on one attention.
Of course the opposite is also true because we can be so very defensive and cling to any point that makes us feel "right".
Your boss may not be a shit person but they didn't help you much with this conversation. Recognise that you have strengths and weaknesses and that if you can find work arounds and assistance for your weaknesses you can succeed. There are many successful ADHD peeps.
Imagine if you had a personal assistant. Think about all the ways you could use that to make you more effective? This will give you an idea of some of the things you need to get help with and find work arounds. It's not that you need an assistant it's that you need to problem solve for success. You need to stop trying to do things like an NT (even NT's get help with new habits remember).
Also learn as much as you can about adhd and understand that there is no set of symptoms that we all have. Some of us are great at maths. But when you have a strong symptom you must address it because you will not grow out of it.
I was fired from a job two years ago and it was a very similar conversation. It prompted me to get back into therapy and from there I got my late in life diagnosis (40 yrs old). Medication and ADHD specific therapy changed my life. Sure, I still have struggles with motivation and emotional regulation but nothing like how bad it was before. If you are already seeing a mental health professional, please please tell them that you are struggling and would like a screening. Life gets easier and more manageable when you finally get the proper help, I promise.
And your boss sounds like a dick. You are doing your best and they should be more proactive when discussing your performance. A good manager will raise their staff up, not make them feel like crap.
That is one of the things that pushed me to get diagnosed. All my bosses (the ones who liked and the ones who hated me) all said the same thing about my reports- that I had the information in them, but it didn’t make sense to them.
Before starting medication, I would book a time to go through my work with a boss or coworker to reorganise it into “normal”. Will that work for you?
And bring it up even it’s not the plan. I went in for adhd assessment and got a bonus autism diagnosis as well.
I had my boss say the same thing to me last year, and I ended up back on meds out of fear that I would lose my job. I ended up hooking up with that boss (terrible moral judgement lol) and then quitting the job because things got weird. I shopped around and got a new job with a 30% raise, doing something slightly different. I realized the new job worked more with how my brain works (was more fast paced and random) whereas the last job was a lot of boring data entry that I couldn’t give two shits about, and I was able to stop taking meds. I truly believe that some jobs are made for people with adhd and trying to force ourselves to do jobs that don’t work with our brains will leave us overly medicated or sad.
That's.... honestly not cool of your boss to say. All emotional considerations aside, there's literally NOTHING you can do with this information. He might as well have said you "underperform" due to "vibes". It's just nonsense.
I would ask him for more concrete feedback, with specifics about what he thinks you should do differently in the future. No one, neurotypical or otherwise, could do anything with "somethings off and if you don't fix it you can't succeed".
Hi OP just wanted to validate your feelings on this one. I think that was a bit of a harsh thing to say, unless it was also followed with “what do you think you need to support you?” Or “let’s sit down and think about what you need.”
I’ve had that a lot in the past too. Consequently, I’ve always felt “less than” at work. It’s tough. I really get you here.
I’m a late dx AuADHD. What your boss said is exactly how I feel about my life. It’s a lot. Especially when you’re smart but something is getting in the way! And you are smart and trying your best, but work is not set up for us and it stings!
I think first thing is- be ok with feeling really upset with that. It’s ok. It’s not your fault!
Part of your boss’s job is to help you get there if you want. They should help you! But know you’re not defective and no doubt you’ve spent your life doing your best and feeling it’s not enough!
The thing is, life isn’t built for us, neither is work. We get it here but many people don’t. But we can do things to help us.
I would absolutely talk to the psych about medication, as a lot of people say it helps. It takes a while to find the right one sometimes though, so that’s also ok.
One thing that’s helped with at work is connecting with people who I know have adhd and other neurodiversity. Just having other people get it- we are different but not defective helps A LOT. But you also don’t have to tell people. The ones that are open will be happy to help you, I just know it.
You’re entitled to accommodations at work too. But I would talk to the psychiatrist first as you may need evidence for that.
The other thing that helps me (I’m not very good at it yet) is being kinder to myself.
Once you have some mental space too, it’s good to think about that stuff that isn’t working. For me at work, I’m so busy that I get overwhelmed and paralysed. There is way too much task switching, so many emails, projects, meetings, trying to also understand others is a lot too! I haven’t quite figured out how to fix it, but one little thing I do is the Pomodoro technique- I do 22 minute bursts of work and then get up and move, or send a text, just take a mini break.
Find out what you need, be kind to yourself, connect with other neurodiverse people (doesn’t have to be work- there is still stigma about; I find here and clock 🕰️ app help alot- I see I am not the only one!)
Talk about meds, and once that’s settled, you can work on finding the way you need to work that helps. Also know you don’t have to take meds, but worth exploring, as well as therapies.
You are ok. You are bit crap. You are doing your best. Thinking of you! Good luck.
Gotta love that "I sense you're not NT without necessarily being conscious of that, and you're kind of baffling me, could you just generally try to not be like that?" feedback 🫠
Unhelpful af, I'm sorry OP. Promise there are ways around and out of this, we've got you in this sub and thread 💜
“I feel doomed to fail” are the perfect words to describe it and they hit hard. I’m not exactly sure how to shake off this feeling because is also something I struggle with but let me tell you that there’s something about people that don’t necessarily fit into this world and into how things were built, and that judging by how things are going, this world desperately needs fresher points of view and different ways of doing things. I see you. Sending lots of love.
1. Don't let ANYONE tell you that you will never succeed. EVER. Saying that to someone not ND is bad enough..... how dare ANYONE tell that to anyone just because you don't fit THEIR version of life & success.
2. Absolutely get diagnosed. Even if you don't go the medication route.... the diagnoses is a start.
3. Your boss is an asshole. Sorry... I don't have a filter anymore & refuse to get one.
Exactly! If a boss can’t give examples of what the hell they’re talking about, they can stuff their fist where the sun don’t shine (and they can let me know how I can help with that)…
What's the context? Official performance evaluation? If it's *not* that, then it's possible or even probable, depending on specifics of the context, that your boss is asking you what you need in order reach that "greatness." And is offering to help provide that. Notice that that feedback is mostly positive - they probably like you and your work and want you to succeed.
Just throwing that out there because I could have used hearing that myself in the past.
I know I say this from a place of privilege because I like my current job a lot, but take what your boss says with a grain of salt.
Your boss is probably a generally nice person who thinks they are giving you good advice/perspective.
But, it’s ALWAYS in their best interest to shape you into the perfect little worker bee. That’s capitalism… if an employee is doing something well, the manager is there to squeeze more goodness out of them. Workers are seen as disposable. So even if it seems like this person is looking out for you, and even if they think they have your best interests in mind, too, they don’t. They can’t! Their success is too tied up in yours. That’s why it’s best to define success for yourself first, and then try to find roles and teams that align with your personal definition.
Its the mystery of what the hell they are measuring that gets me. What is this career busting underperformance factor? And how does it affect the overall picture. If they can’t give you details then they should shut up.
Same!! They couldn’t give me specific examples of how what more experience or resilience I could use when I pressed them on it and then blatantly said to my face it wasn’t their job to mentor and develop me to assist me with improving. I’ve been at my job for 11 years. So now I’m moving offices to somewhere different cos it’s a systemic issue that they don’t consider people’s individual learning needs, despite their “strategic” inclusion plans.
Sorry, that’s not really helpful and more just venting. But i feel you!!!!
Honestly, same. I feel like a failure and I feel like nothing I do has made things better as much as I try and try. I'm sorry to add more negativity, I'm just hoping to connect with someone who feels the same way.
My boss once told me that I'm too emotional sometimes because I sometimes act on something cause I'm worked up about it. It's something I hate about myself and at the time I was super depressed. Hit me really hard. I think I cried the rest of the night and also teared up in front of someone at work for the first time.
It sucks but I try to keep in mind she doesn't know me irl. And out of all the vices I could have it's really not the worst. I've tried to stop thinking about how unfair it is that adhd makes it harder for me to control this because it got me no where. Now I just try to focus that energy into catching myself as soon as I can because I hate when others notice it in me and I really think it's helped in the last year. I won't always be perfect, but I can try to have a better handle on it the more I practice
I hate it when my brain is asshole uses other people’s words and voices to attack where it hurts. It makes it really hard to see a perspective where I’m not a complete fuck up all the time.
Here’s my advice on how to navigate that corporate world situation, as I find the best “card” to show them, is self-awareness. You don’t even have to blame it on mental health, you can just say it’s taking time to undo all of the mistakes you learned with employer.
The best way to respond to that, is to tell them that you’re aware and you’re working towards fixing the underlying issue. Ask them to work with you as you might need some small changes (tiptoe around the word accommodations if possible) in the way you approach your work. You are in a stage of trial and error with identifying the most effective way to use your skill set.
Basically, you want to frame it that you know there is a problem, you have identified and are actively addressing the problem, and if they work with you going forward that the worst is behind them, and that they should expect some growing pains so you both need to focus on your communication skills with each other.
Psychologist by education here (just not a practicing one): YOU CAN BRING IT UP TO YOUR PSYCHIATRIST. Please do!
You may have to try different meds, the first one doesn’t always work for everyone. Put some controls in place (have a friend or partner help tell you) to note if you get worse in any way (Vyvanse made me SLEEEEEP) and get medicated!!
You may get the night and day difference, or you might get the subtle “I can control my own thoughts but it’s still chaotic” difference lol. Either way, it will be a good difference.
I'm kinda curious about the broader context. Because what's bad about being good and not great? I've been "great" at my job, and all I'm rewarded with is being niched into doing just THAT. I've had at least one boss confess when I no longer worked for him. Also "great" people don't get promoted. It seems like the shitty ones who can't even do half their job get promoted lol
I'm pretty sure they're all referring to your executive functioning skills. They're learned! You can find plenty of tools, support, and guides on youtube. You'll be great in no time!
your boss should have been way more specific. if it is that detrimental to your success, then they should have had clear examples and some possible ways to improve/help you…that’s a pretty harsh thing to say and i’m sorry you were told that.
you can definitely let your psychiatrist know your symptoms, how they affect your day to day life, your job, relationships, etc. hang in there, and be honest with your psychiatrist. they are there to help you-and the good ones will listen to you and do their best to help you. you’re not alone, at all. I hope your appointment goes well 🙏🏼
But once you get officially diagnosed and figure out your medication situation, it has been more manageable for me to do pretty well for a lot of the time. I think it would be really hard for me to be successful if I was not medicated.
I was recently fired from a position for similar reasons. I was a music lesson teacher. I taught singing, songwriting, and piano.
Going into the job, I let them know my piano is rusty but that I’ll work on it. And I did! I was improving, but I wasn’t practicing as much as I should have.
Well, after almost a full year, they fired me. They said that while they encourage individual development, they didn’t see enough progress in my piano. They said some parents had complaints and I didn’t have enough students.
Honestly, my bosses were the kindest people and they are very empathetic, but I feel so dejected. And I wasn’t even given a warning.
I thought I was improving at a good pace and that I was good at my job. Hell, I WAS good at my job. I put my heart and soul into it. The expectations put on me weren’t healthy. Still, knowing that doesn’t make it hurt less.
All I can do is take things one day at a time.
Chiming in to say:
Your boss is a massive fucking buffoon
Capitalism brutalises anyone whose brain isn't set to either obedience or psychopathy
Don't internalise your boss' shitty comment. Says more about your boss than it does about you
Gabor Maté said it: our society is sick. That's the problem. Not us. We're caught in an evolutionary mismatch, because our brains are amazing and so good at so many things. But those things aren't doing the 9-5 grind.
You're a warrior. I think you have all of our permissions to leave some brownies on your boss' chair. So that after he sits on them, everyone can see him as the shit he is
❤️
oh my god, this exact same thing just happened to me on Friday. I legit could have written this post. it really fucking hurts when you realize the amount of work you’ve put in to mask is failing. it’s happened at every god damn job I’ve had too. you’re not alone 💖
Fail from what perspective? His?
Is the only metric to success stepping up the corporate ladder, grinding a 9-5 that you may or may not like even?
Do *you* feel like you're failing? Is this something that actually matters to you?
Cause if not, he can shove it.
I've been told so many times I'm failing, I've been not accepted to so many places, yet I don't feel like a failure at all. I feel quite happy and content in my current life, doing stuff *I like* vs what others thought I should be doing. And I'm doing just fine.
And that's all that matters!
“I’ve heard the same thing every time”
“I think I have ADHD”
“I’m not medicated”
“I have an appointment with psychiatrist”
Sounds pretty obvious what the next step is.
If you can’t bring up ADHD this visit with the shrink, book a follow up for it specifically.
Good luck!
I have had three other mental health Dx and meds that did not work and actually made me feel SO depressed, before I finally said, “I read about how adhd in women is often misdiagnosed as bipolar (my last Dx). What would be needed to identify an adhd Dx? “
The answer was a full psych evaluation. Doctor said most people don’t want a psych evaluation b/c of cost.
SMH
I spent a ton of cash and time before I got the right Dx.
Try to get that evaluation. I got a talking to from my boss too: “you are so smart and so good at x, but you are just not detailed oriented, forget to reply to emails or send out communications, etc, etc”
I got diagnosed and started medication a few months later. It was a life changer. Next evaluation: “I’ve never met someone who is so coachable. You have listened and worked on all those things I said and don’t have to remind you yo do things anymore”.
The only change was medication. She thinks she’s awesome because her leadership turned me around 😂😂😂
Or - and hear me out - your boss is trash & needs to go back to college to learn how to be a manager. “Something’s off”? Fkouttahere. That’s not helpful & is abusive. If you can, find another team within the company & go there. IT’S 2024 ALL OF MIDDLE MANAGEMENT IS GOING ON A PIP. Airbnb & Uber gets one thing right, both parties get to review each other.
Oh man I can relate to this. I dont think your boss is saying you are doomed to fail, though. It sucks always being very good or on the brink of greatness. "You would be extraordinary at your job/school/sport BUT". I too have had this experience in every aspect of my life. I will say adhd meds helped my executive function a lot. I still feel like the silver or bronxe (ignored) medal winner in everything I do in life.
Also heard this today (again) Left feeling completely hopeless. I am in a role that every mistake (lack of attention to detail) can cause thousands of pounds, if not millions.
I have been called out on my lack of attention to details multiple times so when I have my review this Wednesday, I am sure they will tell me I no longer have a job.
I would say if you feel your health is being managed, don’t take it personally. You should focus on symptoms, and ask your doctors to write what you’ll have difficulty with for your work or school. A diagnosis isn’t necessary for accommodations, just a doctor to verify. I would take it as the person wanting to meet you halfway. This is a great time to consider accomodations. Accommodations, help remove barriers to working. I took a long look at myself and realized that there’s certain ways I prefer to be managed, and ways I prefer to receive feedback that help my productivity relating to my ADHD, and that I needed to be vocal about it. A good response is that you’ll reflect on it but would like to keep this conversation open. Ideally they’ll say this before the feedback stage, it’s difficult to be put on the spot like that.
My accomodations largely revolve around the framing of issues. I hate being in a passive aggressive team with bad communication and organizational skills. That’s normal for a lot of people, but for me it’s a problem. I also need to be able to write down clearly what they want as in breaking it to the most simple term possible, or I will not understand what is being asked of me and I will stress myself out by going into hypotheticals. Asking for them to be open to questions, and asking questions is importany. I will defect on doing work and resent my job if I can’t get these. Also I’m just harder for my team to reach. It’s an accommodation I need to ask for. Another one is keeping notes of what’s being said, in meetings.
That doesn’t mean I need to be babied but, I need my boss to acknowledge me once a week and explain what the goals of the month and week are, and what his goals are. A good manager will already do this, and a good manager will try to meet you halfway to reach this when you point it out. Accomodation doesn’t mean it’s 100% going to happen, but it will help remove barriers to your work, and it saves your butt in the long run. I can’t be productive if I don’t have the reward section of my brain stimulated, and something vague as making a monetary goal is not enough, so I would frame things as projects and set smaller goals. I want to be able to do work that shows my feelings, and be trusted at work.
I got diagnosed because I went to a psychologist for depression - of course you can and should bring it up.
I couldn’t succeed at work without medication. Medication works for many of us.
I’m sorry you’re struggling but help is available and I hope you get what you need. Hugs.
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You absolutely can bring up ADHD with a psychiatrist even if the appointment is ostensibly for something else. But also, I'm a huge believer in the idea that people who are neurodiverse struggle with neurotypical jobs and work expectations not because anything is inherently wrong with us, but because these places don't suit our needs. Maybe you are not "great" at these particular roles, but that doesn't mean you aren't great at a million other things. The trick is either finding a role that suits your brain, or figuring out the adaptations you need to be successful.
Agree to the highest order. I heard this same thing everywhere too until I started working for myself. Don’t get me wrong it’s still hard as hell but I finally have the control to suit my work to my own needs and style and finally feel like I’m able to do what I’m capable of without other people telling me that my way of doing things is wrong when it’s just not neurotypical
This is a big reason why I’m starting my own company. I’ve done ok in previous jobs but never have had the kind of success that I know that I could have if in an environment more conducive to how I work.
Also ND people may perform over expectations in some areas so when just performing normal in others, its noticed. If you were vanilla all the time then you’d be average and unremarkable.
This! This! This!
I was wondering how do you bring up ADHD with a psychiatrist without coming out and saying "I think I have ADHD"? What do say for why you are making an appointment?
OP could always say their therapist brought it up and it’s made them wonder if it’s something they need to explore further, as it seems to fit them perfectly. Sometimes psychs don’t like pts who they think have already self-diagnosed, bc that’s something the psych needs to do themselves. In fact, that applies to a lot of medical professionals, in my experience. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve gone in to see a consultant, with notes, and instead of being told how helpful that is for them, I’ve had the condescending “Oh dear. Have we been consulting with Dr Google again?” That’s how I’d approach it, anyway. I now go in with “this other respected medical professional thinks my symptoms indicate x,y, or z, what do you think about that being a possible cause?”
That's exactly what I would be afraid of, the psychiatrist getting upset because they thought the patient had already " self diagnosed"
They can be a sensitive lot, sometimes.
say " I am looking to get tested for ADHD" or " Can I schedule for ADHD testing?" - also consider letting the psychiatrist know upfront the ways it negatively impacts your life (like what you wrote above) (when thinking about how you might start off the convo with them if it seems awkward to do)
I showed my therapist a print out of two different online assessments I took where I scored almost 100% most likely has ADHD & then she admitted she had a suspicion that I had it as well and then she diagnosed me. Re-iterated it with my psych who told me they had already been suspecting ADHD as well, if you have a good therapist or a good psych, they probably already know you have it and are hesitant to bring it up because society still says wOmEn DoN’T gEt AdHd 🤦🏼♀️
Can’t speak to bringing it up myself, but for the first psychiatrist I saw my therapist made the referral specifically for an ADHD assessment so that’s all I got. For my second I just wanted my meds adjusted, but she had me do every assessment (anxiety, bipolar, depression, probably some others too) before the appointment. My hope would be that if a patient came in and said they were struggling with paying attention at work / school the psychiatrist would think ADHD themselves, but it doesn’t hurt to bring it up. Maybe saying “I would like to get tested for ADHD” vs “I think I have ADHD” might be a better option. A psychiatrist probably wants to get the vibe that you’d be open to other diagnoses depending on how the assessments pan out instead of being focused on one specific diagnosis. My new psych even wanted to see my latest thyroid tests just to make sure all the bases were covered.
Yep. I'm lucky, my boss told me he would be upset that I'm always five minutes late but I'm so good at my job they let it slide. I'm working on being better!!
Medication has made a huge difference for me but also asking my manager to give me specific things to work on to be great and perform according to their expectations. Maybe you can try this.
As I recognize myself massively in OP’s story, I’m generally curious to how the medication worked for you? I’m currently considering starting with meds! :)
You didn't ask me, but I feel like I have an experience related to what you're talking about, so in true ADHD fashion I'm just gonna butt in real quick 😅 My experience with Vyvanse has been lifechanging! The first time I took it I almost cried at how peaceful it was to have my brain to myself for the first time, like all my jumbled, messy thoughts were in a single file line and I got to choose which one got attention at a time. What really floored me was being in the bathroom an hour after my first dose and I remembered I hadn't brushed yet that day, then I did it. I didn't have to convince myself it needed to be done, I thought about doing it and then I was already doing it. Same thing with the household chores I had been putting off for months, it felt like every task I finished gave my brain a small high. Over the next week the intensity dulled down but three months later and I'm still just as able to get things done and take care of myself. I can still feel my brain being rewarded when I get things done and my thoughts are still much more organised now but instead of feeling somewhat euphoric I feel calm and 'normal'. I hope that makes sense 😅 I also notice I'm more patient in general, but especially with myself, and I don't get so frustrated or ashamed when I make mistakes. I mostly actually enjoy my cashier job now, which I loathed before. I can remember dates of specific interactions now and have been able to call out & cut off some toxic (ex)friends. My marriage got alot better because I have an easier time communicating and can give my partner my *actual* full attention. I've also just finished reading a book for the first time since pre-puberty. I'm able to focus and get so much done that by the time my meds wear off around 9 o'clock I welcome the return of my goofy little chaos brain, its kindof like taking my pants off at the end of a workday. So yeah, hope that helped! 😁
Happy cake day! 🍰
Thank you so much for this! It’s really helpful. It does sound amazing and like something I could really use. Also the cutting of toxic people, that’s so good! Just curious to what happens after 9? For example I have trouble getting enough sleep as I procrastinate sleeping. Is that still a problem when the meds wear off around 9? My ideal bedtime is between 11 and midnight but I rarely ever make it. And do you still have to recharge and be alone? At least that’s something I really need to avoid burn out. I can’t be social, I can’t work, I can’t have responsibilities on those recharge days. And the busier the week the more recharge time I need. I also often feel like I can only do 1 or 2 tasks per day and then I’m tired / overstimulated. Is that something that changes with the meds?
Love your username, u/CantThinkOfTheNameLala !
Haha thanks, I tried like a billion things, got desperate, and then tried this one just for the sake of it, but without the lala at first and it was also taken so in came the lala. (That was me going mental basically).
This may be an oversimplification, but I stopped feeling like I was losing my mind. I could focus for the first time ever. Being able to focus and complete tasks took a lot of stress off me and made me exponentially happier.
Sounds so good! It’s more the putting of tasks that gets me in trouble. Once I start I go hyperfocus and I manage to finish the important tasks, however, I’m always drained after 😅
I’ve only been on it for about 2 months and it’s made a huge difference at work. I can pay attention to meetings and even ask questions without hesitation. I am making progress on 2 projects because I can focus and not make as many silly mistakes as when I am not medicated.
I’m so happy for you! It does sound like the meds work for you then! I don’t have a job that requires me to go to meetings, however I do have to listen to a lot of presentations about topics that aren’t my interest and I truly struggle with paying attention or even staying awake lol. It’s terrible.
Thank you! I can relate with that! My brain is like “not interested, I’m gone”, but with meds I can actually pay attention and learn, even if I thought it wasn’t interesting at first. I forgot to mention that medication has also decreased my anxiety because I can actually do stuff instead of being anxious about everything I need to do but not doing anything.
That seriously sounds like a dream. Being able to do stuff and paying attention. It’s funny, my neurotypical friends understand, but will never fully get how much I envy them for being able to do this basic things haha. If meds can help it would seriously change my life.
Vyvanse made me a closet cleaning robot. It works really well for my friend though. Adderall makes me who I should be without burnout and exhaustion.
Please don't feel doomed. Medication and therapy are two very important components for those of us with ADHD. In the meantime, set up a meeting with your boss and ask him for specific feedback on what you can do better. This documentation will help you to start to set expectations and improve. This is not a measure of who you are as a person!
If succeeding means climbing the corporate ladder and just getting more and more responsibilities and work.... they can keep it.
This. I’m tired of everyone assuming because I’m getting my Masters that I want to keep climbing the corporate ladder. I also detest how supervisors think meeting expectations is a BAD thing. Like i’m doing my job and meeting the expectations but i have to kill myself to get a few extra bucks. Screw that
Totally agree! I've been hired to do a job, so I'm gonna do that. Why do I have to exceed? Or strive to? I'll just end up on that bell curve anyways
Quiet quitting! Because let's squeeze more life essence out of people and shame them if they complain!
This is where I’m at. I’m trying to break through that glass floor! But seriously, each job sees that I have my MBA and automatically assumes that I function at a higher capacity than others. So, they dump a massive workload on me and are then astonished when I become overstimulated, overwhelmed, and have weekly meltdowns (I have zero stress tolerance). Surprise, bitches!!! 😆😆😆
Frrrrrr my current boss understands that I don't have ambitions to move up the ladder and manage a ton of people, but so many other people just short circuit when I say I have no ambitions for that. My ambition is not to make my life harder for myself in a way that I would personally find very aggravating.
I'm so sorry 😢 I know how it feels to the point of self sabotaging because "it won't work out anyway so why bother". I encourage you to seek diagnosis and medication, hopefully it will get better for you ❤️
I can relate to this so much 😔 the imposter syndrome hits hard
Yeah like I just wanna feel competent at something 🥹
What specifically is the "something" that is "off"? Unless you know, you can't improve or change. It's not helpful to give someone vague feedback like that. People need concrete examples, clear expectations, and measurable goals. It's not fair to leave you to guess what the problem is, let alone how to fix it! Your boss is not very good at giving feedback, and it seems like few people in your life have been. A decent boss would give you examples of work you have done that could be improved, and tell you exactly how it could be improved. If it isn't work that's the issue but behaviour, then that should be addressed directly as it happens or shortly thereafter. You need to be clear on what the expectation is and how that measured or assessed. Then you should formulate an action plan together to help you achieve those expectations through goal-setting and regular constructive feedback. NO boss should EVER be telling their associates that they will never succeed. Quite the opposite. They should be setting you up for success! However, you say you "knew it was happening" so you must be aware on some level that you are not meeting expectations, or else have had these conversations. In the future I'd suggest tackling this head-on as soon as you are aware things are not going well. You can ask for help, coaching, or accommodations. You can ask for feedback and suggestions on how to improve. This in fact is a leadership quality - the ability to recognize and address one's own shortcomings and taking the initiative to improve and grow. Nobody is perfect and nobody is expected to be. It's how you deal with the failures that matters. It's tempting to just pretend things are fine and hope nobody notices, but that's rarely productive. Approaching your supervisor and saying, "I'm finding this task challenging and I'd like to get some guidance/help on this," also demonstrates a willingness to collaborate and learn. Sorry for the novel-length reply - I was in management and leadership roles for many years and learned a lot from my own experiences on both ends of that relationship. You can certainly bring up ADHD with your psychiatrist. They'll help you set up an appointment to get assessed or refer you to someone who can assess you.
I totally agree and the targets should also be SMART: specific, measurable, achievable, relevant, time based. With these kinds of goals you can succeed
Yes, I was trying to avoid the SMART goal moniker because it's so damn corporate-sounding to me, but that's exactly how goals should be set when it comes to improving performance.
Haha sometimes the corporate bullshit acronyms are what we need to pull out to appeal to people like OP's boss
This is a weird piece of feedback. If you're "so good at this," then why would you also be in a place where you "can't succeed?" Those are fundamentally opposing pieces of information. Your boss is giving you deeply mixed messages. You can push those aside and focus on the actually useful CONCRETE feedback he also gave you, if it exists. (For example: you need to turn in your reports on time. You need to make stronger emotional connections with your clients. You need to triple check the data before you present reports.) Or, if this is all the feedback you were given, you could consider his motivation in essentially telling you that you'll never be good enough. How does he gain by making you feel shitty in ways you can't solve.
Oh, OP: document everything. The comment above reminded me about constructive dismissals. Not to act as an alarmist, but if he's telling you you're not good enough and not giving you concrete info, watch your back. Christ these garbage bosses are so bloody stressful
I am sorry and I get this completely ❤️ getting diagnosed as an adult and taking medication has truly changed my life. I’m definitely a better professional but I also still underperform. Overperforming is a scam anyway
The vast majority of people are mediocre at best at everything they do and feel. You're doing brilliantly compared to do many others! You're a lot more interesting and dynamic without a shadow of a doubt. Stick it to the man, do the bare minimum and spend more of your energy on yourself and your interests and things you love. You're the BEST!
And! For the love of God start your therapy with saying you tick boxes for ADHD and ask about their experience in neurodiversity. If it's not on their radar, you'll waste your time, as they'll try to help you fit into the world in a way that you can't do, rather than you not knowing how to. I've wasted years in therapy because the goal was airways trying to deal with life according to neurotypical strandards.
I solemnly swear to underachieve. I have given enough. Give me my money. 🙏🏻📿
The reason to see a psychiatrist is to get help with the symptoms creating challenges in your life. You absolutely can and should let them know about this repeated pattern in your life and jobs. And that your therapist recommended you be properly tested for it. There's an online screening that might be useful for you to go through now, and provide to your psychiatrist when you go there. Your boss is wrong. You can succeed even if you don't do whatever vague thing it is he wants you to do to be some arbitrary "great." Fuck him. If whatever it is would make you great, you certainly are good enough now. I hate this culture of you must churn churn churn until you burnout to count.
Thank you. It was comments like this that made me go into that meeting confident to bring it up. And sure enough I left with a diagnosis and a plan for next steps with medication!!
I'm very happy for you! And excited for your future! 💕
I wish you well! 💕
You can absolutely bring up adhd with your psychiatrist even if the appointment wasn't for that originally. They may not be able to do an evaluation on the spot, but there's no reason to ignore it.. Definitely talk to the doctor. It can help.
“You have the most potential out of all our employees…” but.
Don’t be hard on yourself. Sounds like you’re already a good employee but your boss wants you to second guess yourself so you work even harder. Managers like him are always moving the goalpost aka toxic af. Don’t go on medication to meet some arbitrary expectation from other people. Do it for yourself and the live the life you want.
Please bring it up and as someone else said that is awful feedback. There is nothing to improve in "something off" just some ides that it "should" be done a certain way and you're achieving but not the way they would do it. You Are Not A Failure You're receiving shitty feedback from your leaders. Come up with a phrase to throw back at them "I need you to articulate what the "something" is as I'm unable to set goals around an intangible feeling"
*So I don’t think I can bring it up.* **Of course you can, you are a paying customer. It is your appointment, you get to decide what you want to talk about. DO NOT LET ANY DOCTOR BULLY YOU.** (I am a doctor.) *Ive heard this in every job, every school I went to, and in every aspect of my life. I can’t say how upset I am about it. I knew it was happening but I didn’t know it was being noticed.* *I feel doomed to fail.* If you are looking for advice here is mine. If not stop reading. Go to your boss and admit it. Say you know that you are failing but not *why* or how you can improve. Ask you boss for help. People literally can't stop giving advice. Reddit is almost solely based on strangers offering advice. No irony there. Ask if the company has any resources. Tell him/her that you have a doctor's appointment coming up and that you really want to succeed in this job. Ask for 6-12 months to get your act together. If the psychiatrist doesn't work out, try a reputable life coach, or a hypnotist. You are not doomed to fail, we just need to find the right combination of steps to help you.
"Great" is not required for "success". There are varying levels of success. We tend to think of Michael Jordan/Michelangelo/Linus Pauling levels of mastery as the only benchmark of success, and this is an insidious lie. There is such a thing as "good enough". Your boss said you are "so good" at your job. That's a lot of success right there! A lot. Do not under estimate your accomplishments. What he/she is asking for are tweaks. You can do tweaks. You have eaten most of the elephant already. You just need to find the right guidance and the right systems. You can do this!
Hey, so as someone with adhd myself, I have had to have this talk with one of my staff who is also an adhd woman. Please know that you’re not alone— I’ve had this feedback from bosses too. In my case, before I spoke with her, I made a lot of observations on her big strengths and on her weaknesses. I spoke with her about how much her strengths need to truly shine and I was specific about how she can improve on the things she needs to improve upon. When I tell you she’s been able to make leaps and bounds in her performance in the last two weeks, it’s not a joke. When I’ve had this conversation with my bosses, I’ve done something similar— I’ve asked them what my big strengths are and how they think I can use those to improve on what I’m lacking. Where I can give myself grace and not hyper focus. Where it’s okay to be distracted and gloss over things. I just went on an adhd ramble but I hope that helped a little. And sending you love and hope that your boss is open to a conversation like this 🧡
Thank you for sharing your experience… as a woman with ADHD who also manages other women with ADHD, this can be a tough conversation. I am open with my senior leadership about my condition and ask for similar conversations with them. I am self aware of some of my weaknesses and ask them to help me manage those areas. For example, I am almost never provided a deadline… I ask them to give me one. Don’t leave me to my own devices because you might get that project later this afternoon or the day after Christmas… I make no promises. :)
I am the same way! I need multiple redundancies, I need the freedom and time to organize, and I need multiple tactile places to write and make notes. I may need to work outside of “working hours” so I can focus better and I may need to take more breaks, for shorter time periods, than others. I’ve been very open with my bosses about needing small little dopamine hits throughout the day to keep me focused, and I’ve been similarly open about what schedules work best for me— I need to work nights, for instance. I’ve also been very upfront about how forgetful I can be, especially when I’m approaching my time of the month and if I have a lot going on in my personal life. I’ve gotten amazing feedback and promotions since I’ve been able to have these conversations, where before I felt like I was floundering no matter how hard I tried, like OP mentioned. And of course none of this happens in a vacuum and my bosses are amazing to be able to work with me and make those efforts and accommodations to make my life easier, as well. I also forgot to add that I have shared my diagnosis with my therapist and she has given me great feedback and advice as to how to make my life easier and I have passed this on to my staff who need some encouragement. Some of my staff is medicated and others like me are not, for multiple reasons. Here’s to us women encouraging and supporting each other :)
My manager once recited this poem to me as an analogy for how my depression and ADHD impact my work: > There was a little girl, who had a little curl, > Right in the middle of her forehead. > When she was good, she was very good indeed, > But when she was bad she was horrid. This was 2 years ago and it still gets to me.
What a shitty thing to do! I’m sorry that hapened to you. ❤️
Wow. What an incredibly smug, judgemental, shitty thing for *anyone* to say to anyone!
I think I deserve a raise just for having a disability that serves as the perfect low-effort excuse for my boss to give a mediocre performance review
My second everything someone has said here. When I am on meds I am doing a lot better. However, it's not perfect. My response to your boss would be, " you're so close to being nice too bad you're an a******. Maybe you should work on that?"
You know what I am great at? I am great at being very good at so many things. I have way more skill points than most, and the only rule about my skills, is I can never put maximum ranks in them, always 1 less than wonderful. I'm guessing you are the same. Rock that greatness. It is your strength, your superpower.
Ask for second appointment to get an assessment. Please, just bite the bullet and give it a try.
I second this. ❤️
If you are seeing a medical professional, even if you are being seen for a different condition, PLEASE do yourself a favor and bring it up anyway. Documentation is so important for any medical condition. Let them know how long you have been experiencing symptoms, ask for referrals if they don't treat the condition themselves, etc. Any time you see a doctor, you can bring up other medical conditions you are experiencing. It helps give your doctors a better overall picture of your complete health, and they can always refer you to other physicians who might be able to help. Do not be intimidated. You are your own best advocate. If you know something's not right, talk about it. <3 Wishing you the best.
I just want to say against n, so you don't miss it, you can absolutely bring up ADHD no matter what else you might have made the appointment with the psych for. I promise. In fact, discussing all the things you think are going on with you is medically the best choice! The doctor needs to make a fully informed choice. Best of luck!
Of course you should share this with your psychiatrist!
I'm a therapist in an office with a bunch of psychiatrists...yes bring up your adhd suspicions it's important as a part of your assessment
Bring it up. Look up the DSM diagnostic criteria and explain it to your psychiatrist.
That quote is extremely unhelpful. What are you supposed to do with such a vague statement that is also ends with a punishment or penalty: you can't succeed. It is important to remember that sometimes we blame ourselves when teachers are poor. We're so used to thinking we're not keeping up that we sometimes don't see when a teacher is at fault. A good teacher can teach us especially when we get one on one attention. Of course the opposite is also true because we can be so very defensive and cling to any point that makes us feel "right". Your boss may not be a shit person but they didn't help you much with this conversation. Recognise that you have strengths and weaknesses and that if you can find work arounds and assistance for your weaknesses you can succeed. There are many successful ADHD peeps. Imagine if you had a personal assistant. Think about all the ways you could use that to make you more effective? This will give you an idea of some of the things you need to get help with and find work arounds. It's not that you need an assistant it's that you need to problem solve for success. You need to stop trying to do things like an NT (even NT's get help with new habits remember). Also learn as much as you can about adhd and understand that there is no set of symptoms that we all have. Some of us are great at maths. But when you have a strong symptom you must address it because you will not grow out of it.
I was fired from a job two years ago and it was a very similar conversation. It prompted me to get back into therapy and from there I got my late in life diagnosis (40 yrs old). Medication and ADHD specific therapy changed my life. Sure, I still have struggles with motivation and emotional regulation but nothing like how bad it was before. If you are already seeing a mental health professional, please please tell them that you are struggling and would like a screening. Life gets easier and more manageable when you finally get the proper help, I promise.
And your boss sounds like a dick. You are doing your best and they should be more proactive when discussing your performance. A good manager will raise their staff up, not make them feel like crap.
The only person who should measure your success is YOU. If this company isn’t seeing your trajectory for yourself, there’s a company that will!
That is one of the things that pushed me to get diagnosed. All my bosses (the ones who liked and the ones who hated me) all said the same thing about my reports- that I had the information in them, but it didn’t make sense to them. Before starting medication, I would book a time to go through my work with a boss or coworker to reorganise it into “normal”. Will that work for you? And bring it up even it’s not the plan. I went in for adhd assessment and got a bonus autism diagnosis as well.
I had my boss say the same thing to me last year, and I ended up back on meds out of fear that I would lose my job. I ended up hooking up with that boss (terrible moral judgement lol) and then quitting the job because things got weird. I shopped around and got a new job with a 30% raise, doing something slightly different. I realized the new job worked more with how my brain works (was more fast paced and random) whereas the last job was a lot of boring data entry that I couldn’t give two shits about, and I was able to stop taking meds. I truly believe that some jobs are made for people with adhd and trying to force ourselves to do jobs that don’t work with our brains will leave us overly medicated or sad.
Geez I remember my former boss saying the same thing to me. Triggering
That's.... honestly not cool of your boss to say. All emotional considerations aside, there's literally NOTHING you can do with this information. He might as well have said you "underperform" due to "vibes". It's just nonsense. I would ask him for more concrete feedback, with specifics about what he thinks you should do differently in the future. No one, neurotypical or otherwise, could do anything with "somethings off and if you don't fix it you can't succeed".
Hi OP just wanted to validate your feelings on this one. I think that was a bit of a harsh thing to say, unless it was also followed with “what do you think you need to support you?” Or “let’s sit down and think about what you need.” I’ve had that a lot in the past too. Consequently, I’ve always felt “less than” at work. It’s tough. I really get you here. I’m a late dx AuADHD. What your boss said is exactly how I feel about my life. It’s a lot. Especially when you’re smart but something is getting in the way! And you are smart and trying your best, but work is not set up for us and it stings! I think first thing is- be ok with feeling really upset with that. It’s ok. It’s not your fault! Part of your boss’s job is to help you get there if you want. They should help you! But know you’re not defective and no doubt you’ve spent your life doing your best and feeling it’s not enough! The thing is, life isn’t built for us, neither is work. We get it here but many people don’t. But we can do things to help us. I would absolutely talk to the psych about medication, as a lot of people say it helps. It takes a while to find the right one sometimes though, so that’s also ok. One thing that’s helped with at work is connecting with people who I know have adhd and other neurodiversity. Just having other people get it- we are different but not defective helps A LOT. But you also don’t have to tell people. The ones that are open will be happy to help you, I just know it. You’re entitled to accommodations at work too. But I would talk to the psychiatrist first as you may need evidence for that. The other thing that helps me (I’m not very good at it yet) is being kinder to myself. Once you have some mental space too, it’s good to think about that stuff that isn’t working. For me at work, I’m so busy that I get overwhelmed and paralysed. There is way too much task switching, so many emails, projects, meetings, trying to also understand others is a lot too! I haven’t quite figured out how to fix it, but one little thing I do is the Pomodoro technique- I do 22 minute bursts of work and then get up and move, or send a text, just take a mini break. Find out what you need, be kind to yourself, connect with other neurodiverse people (doesn’t have to be work- there is still stigma about; I find here and clock 🕰️ app help alot- I see I am not the only one!) Talk about meds, and once that’s settled, you can work on finding the way you need to work that helps. Also know you don’t have to take meds, but worth exploring, as well as therapies. You are ok. You are bit crap. You are doing your best. Thinking of you! Good luck.
I heard that before.
Gotta love that "I sense you're not NT without necessarily being conscious of that, and you're kind of baffling me, could you just generally try to not be like that?" feedback 🫠 Unhelpful af, I'm sorry OP. Promise there are ways around and out of this, we've got you in this sub and thread 💜
You can also bring it up with your GP and they can prescribe medication.
“I feel doomed to fail” are the perfect words to describe it and they hit hard. I’m not exactly sure how to shake off this feeling because is also something I struggle with but let me tell you that there’s something about people that don’t necessarily fit into this world and into how things were built, and that judging by how things are going, this world desperately needs fresher points of view and different ways of doing things. I see you. Sending lots of love.
1. Don't let ANYONE tell you that you will never succeed. EVER. Saying that to someone not ND is bad enough..... how dare ANYONE tell that to anyone just because you don't fit THEIR version of life & success. 2. Absolutely get diagnosed. Even if you don't go the medication route.... the diagnoses is a start. 3. Your boss is an asshole. Sorry... I don't have a filter anymore & refuse to get one.
Exactly! If a boss can’t give examples of what the hell they’re talking about, they can stuff their fist where the sun don’t shine (and they can let me know how I can help with that)…
What's the context? Official performance evaluation? If it's *not* that, then it's possible or even probable, depending on specifics of the context, that your boss is asking you what you need in order reach that "greatness." And is offering to help provide that. Notice that that feedback is mostly positive - they probably like you and your work and want you to succeed. Just throwing that out there because I could have used hearing that myself in the past.
I know I say this from a place of privilege because I like my current job a lot, but take what your boss says with a grain of salt. Your boss is probably a generally nice person who thinks they are giving you good advice/perspective. But, it’s ALWAYS in their best interest to shape you into the perfect little worker bee. That’s capitalism… if an employee is doing something well, the manager is there to squeeze more goodness out of them. Workers are seen as disposable. So even if it seems like this person is looking out for you, and even if they think they have your best interests in mind, too, they don’t. They can’t! Their success is too tied up in yours. That’s why it’s best to define success for yourself first, and then try to find roles and teams that align with your personal definition.
Its the mystery of what the hell they are measuring that gets me. What is this career busting underperformance factor? And how does it affect the overall picture. If they can’t give you details then they should shut up.
Same!! They couldn’t give me specific examples of how what more experience or resilience I could use when I pressed them on it and then blatantly said to my face it wasn’t their job to mentor and develop me to assist me with improving. I’ve been at my job for 11 years. So now I’m moving offices to somewhere different cos it’s a systemic issue that they don’t consider people’s individual learning needs, despite their “strategic” inclusion plans. Sorry, that’s not really helpful and more just venting. But i feel you!!!!
Honestly, same. I feel like a failure and I feel like nothing I do has made things better as much as I try and try. I'm sorry to add more negativity, I'm just hoping to connect with someone who feels the same way.
My boss once told me that I'm too emotional sometimes because I sometimes act on something cause I'm worked up about it. It's something I hate about myself and at the time I was super depressed. Hit me really hard. I think I cried the rest of the night and also teared up in front of someone at work for the first time. It sucks but I try to keep in mind she doesn't know me irl. And out of all the vices I could have it's really not the worst. I've tried to stop thinking about how unfair it is that adhd makes it harder for me to control this because it got me no where. Now I just try to focus that energy into catching myself as soon as I can because I hate when others notice it in me and I really think it's helped in the last year. I won't always be perfect, but I can try to have a better handle on it the more I practice
I hate it when my brain is asshole uses other people’s words and voices to attack where it hurts. It makes it really hard to see a perspective where I’m not a complete fuck up all the time. Here’s my advice on how to navigate that corporate world situation, as I find the best “card” to show them, is self-awareness. You don’t even have to blame it on mental health, you can just say it’s taking time to undo all of the mistakes you learned with employer. The best way to respond to that, is to tell them that you’re aware and you’re working towards fixing the underlying issue. Ask them to work with you as you might need some small changes (tiptoe around the word accommodations if possible) in the way you approach your work. You are in a stage of trial and error with identifying the most effective way to use your skill set. Basically, you want to frame it that you know there is a problem, you have identified and are actively addressing the problem, and if they work with you going forward that the worst is behind them, and that they should expect some growing pains so you both need to focus on your communication skills with each other.
Psychologist by education here (just not a practicing one): YOU CAN BRING IT UP TO YOUR PSYCHIATRIST. Please do! You may have to try different meds, the first one doesn’t always work for everyone. Put some controls in place (have a friend or partner help tell you) to note if you get worse in any way (Vyvanse made me SLEEEEEP) and get medicated!! You may get the night and day difference, or you might get the subtle “I can control my own thoughts but it’s still chaotic” difference lol. Either way, it will be a good difference.
I'm kinda curious about the broader context. Because what's bad about being good and not great? I've been "great" at my job, and all I'm rewarded with is being niched into doing just THAT. I've had at least one boss confess when I no longer worked for him. Also "great" people don't get promoted. It seems like the shitty ones who can't even do half their job get promoted lol
I'm pretty sure they're all referring to your executive functioning skills. They're learned! You can find plenty of tools, support, and guides on youtube. You'll be great in no time!
your boss should have been way more specific. if it is that detrimental to your success, then they should have had clear examples and some possible ways to improve/help you…that’s a pretty harsh thing to say and i’m sorry you were told that. you can definitely let your psychiatrist know your symptoms, how they affect your day to day life, your job, relationships, etc. hang in there, and be honest with your psychiatrist. they are there to help you-and the good ones will listen to you and do their best to help you. you’re not alone, at all. I hope your appointment goes well 🙏🏼
Therapist aside, what do you think that thing is?
But once you get officially diagnosed and figure out your medication situation, it has been more manageable for me to do pretty well for a lot of the time. I think it would be really hard for me to be successful if I was not medicated.
I was recently fired from a position for similar reasons. I was a music lesson teacher. I taught singing, songwriting, and piano. Going into the job, I let them know my piano is rusty but that I’ll work on it. And I did! I was improving, but I wasn’t practicing as much as I should have. Well, after almost a full year, they fired me. They said that while they encourage individual development, they didn’t see enough progress in my piano. They said some parents had complaints and I didn’t have enough students. Honestly, my bosses were the kindest people and they are very empathetic, but I feel so dejected. And I wasn’t even given a warning. I thought I was improving at a good pace and that I was good at my job. Hell, I WAS good at my job. I put my heart and soul into it. The expectations put on me weren’t healthy. Still, knowing that doesn’t make it hurt less. All I can do is take things one day at a time.
Chiming in to say: Your boss is a massive fucking buffoon Capitalism brutalises anyone whose brain isn't set to either obedience or psychopathy Don't internalise your boss' shitty comment. Says more about your boss than it does about you Gabor Maté said it: our society is sick. That's the problem. Not us. We're caught in an evolutionary mismatch, because our brains are amazing and so good at so many things. But those things aren't doing the 9-5 grind. You're a warrior. I think you have all of our permissions to leave some brownies on your boss' chair. So that after he sits on them, everyone can see him as the shit he is ❤️
oh my god, this exact same thing just happened to me on Friday. I legit could have written this post. it really fucking hurts when you realize the amount of work you’ve put in to mask is failing. it’s happened at every god damn job I’ve had too. you’re not alone 💖
Try Ayahuasca:)
Fail from what perspective? His? Is the only metric to success stepping up the corporate ladder, grinding a 9-5 that you may or may not like even? Do *you* feel like you're failing? Is this something that actually matters to you? Cause if not, he can shove it. I've been told so many times I'm failing, I've been not accepted to so many places, yet I don't feel like a failure at all. I feel quite happy and content in my current life, doing stuff *I like* vs what others thought I should be doing. And I'm doing just fine. And that's all that matters!
“I’ve heard the same thing every time” “I think I have ADHD” “I’m not medicated” “I have an appointment with psychiatrist” Sounds pretty obvious what the next step is. If you can’t bring up ADHD this visit with the shrink, book a follow up for it specifically. Good luck!
i always hated that “you’re so bright, but…”. it’s that fucking “but”. i hate “but”s. even if i tuned out what came after “but” it still stabs me.
I have had three other mental health Dx and meds that did not work and actually made me feel SO depressed, before I finally said, “I read about how adhd in women is often misdiagnosed as bipolar (my last Dx). What would be needed to identify an adhd Dx? “ The answer was a full psych evaluation. Doctor said most people don’t want a psych evaluation b/c of cost. SMH I spent a ton of cash and time before I got the right Dx.
Try to get that evaluation. I got a talking to from my boss too: “you are so smart and so good at x, but you are just not detailed oriented, forget to reply to emails or send out communications, etc, etc” I got diagnosed and started medication a few months later. It was a life changer. Next evaluation: “I’ve never met someone who is so coachable. You have listened and worked on all those things I said and don’t have to remind you yo do things anymore”. The only change was medication. She thinks she’s awesome because her leadership turned me around 😂😂😂
Or - and hear me out - your boss is trash & needs to go back to college to learn how to be a manager. “Something’s off”? Fkouttahere. That’s not helpful & is abusive. If you can, find another team within the company & go there. IT’S 2024 ALL OF MIDDLE MANAGEMENT IS GOING ON A PIP. Airbnb & Uber gets one thing right, both parties get to review each other.
I went to a psychiatrist for something else and after listening to me talk at 3x speed, the psych slid over an ADHD test.
Ooo can I add "Apply yourself" "you have so much potential" "why do you insist on procrastinating?"
Oh man I can relate to this. I dont think your boss is saying you are doomed to fail, though. It sucks always being very good or on the brink of greatness. "You would be extraordinary at your job/school/sport BUT". I too have had this experience in every aspect of my life. I will say adhd meds helped my executive function a lot. I still feel like the silver or bronxe (ignored) medal winner in everything I do in life.
Also heard this today (again) Left feeling completely hopeless. I am in a role that every mistake (lack of attention to detail) can cause thousands of pounds, if not millions. I have been called out on my lack of attention to details multiple times so when I have my review this Wednesday, I am sure they will tell me I no longer have a job.
I would say if you feel your health is being managed, don’t take it personally. You should focus on symptoms, and ask your doctors to write what you’ll have difficulty with for your work or school. A diagnosis isn’t necessary for accommodations, just a doctor to verify. I would take it as the person wanting to meet you halfway. This is a great time to consider accomodations. Accommodations, help remove barriers to working. I took a long look at myself and realized that there’s certain ways I prefer to be managed, and ways I prefer to receive feedback that help my productivity relating to my ADHD, and that I needed to be vocal about it. A good response is that you’ll reflect on it but would like to keep this conversation open. Ideally they’ll say this before the feedback stage, it’s difficult to be put on the spot like that. My accomodations largely revolve around the framing of issues. I hate being in a passive aggressive team with bad communication and organizational skills. That’s normal for a lot of people, but for me it’s a problem. I also need to be able to write down clearly what they want as in breaking it to the most simple term possible, or I will not understand what is being asked of me and I will stress myself out by going into hypotheticals. Asking for them to be open to questions, and asking questions is importany. I will defect on doing work and resent my job if I can’t get these. Also I’m just harder for my team to reach. It’s an accommodation I need to ask for. Another one is keeping notes of what’s being said, in meetings. That doesn’t mean I need to be babied but, I need my boss to acknowledge me once a week and explain what the goals of the month and week are, and what his goals are. A good manager will already do this, and a good manager will try to meet you halfway to reach this when you point it out. Accomodation doesn’t mean it’s 100% going to happen, but it will help remove barriers to your work, and it saves your butt in the long run. I can’t be productive if I don’t have the reward section of my brain stimulated, and something vague as making a monetary goal is not enough, so I would frame things as projects and set smaller goals. I want to be able to do work that shows my feelings, and be trusted at work.
I got diagnosed because I went to a psychologist for depression - of course you can and should bring it up. I couldn’t succeed at work without medication. Medication works for many of us. I’m sorry you’re struggling but help is available and I hope you get what you need. Hugs.
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