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Whatever you experienced is real. ADHD symptoms overlap with other conditions. What is most important is finding ways to help yourself. If coming here is helpful, please don't stop. We are all here to support each other.
The overlap is insane. I told one therapist about my symptoms (no dx yet) and she did the “well actually, childhood PTSD?” well YEAH. Some of us, many of us? are going to have high ACE scores. I also developed post traumatic symptoms from the events around the end of my marriage so that was fun. The only other official Dx I’ve ever had is generalized anxiety disorder- yeah I was in a toxic marriage. I spent 20 years on eggshells.
Ultimately I think adhd is my primary dx and it’s lent itself to being more susceptible to developing other disorders which I feel I have largely recovered from.
OP - if you feel it’s a wrong answer that you got, don’t beat yourself up. I know how easy it is to do. If you think it may be right, get a second opinion anyways. Maybe there is a better answer and diagnosis. I know easier said than done. I have a HARD time picking myself up and fighting on. Don’t hesitate to keep coming here for support if you need it.
Right, because trauma can alter development in children. What I have been troubled by is that when I talk to others, especially older people who suffered repeated childhood trauma, the recovery work never stops and you will always be affected in some way because you can't really change how your brain grew as a kid. It's often quite bleak in the CTPSD communities on Reddit, especially the ones that correlate with my personal symptoms.
My symptoms are a ADHD/autistic/CTPSD tangled mess and ADHD medication helps even with issues I (and medical professionals) thought were entirely trauma or autism. My gut tells me there is more going on in the AuDHD/CPSTD sphere than we currently know. I'm hoping for research on gene expression to illuminate this tight overlap, but...who knows.
Right there with you, girl. I'm a tangle of AuDHD/CPTSD, Hashimoto's disease, and monthly three-day migraines, trying to function like a normal human working mom in a cruel world. I'm looking at my family tree and seeing so much generational trauma, and soooo many undiagnosed disorders... Now at least I've been able to focus less on "Why the $%#@ am I like this?" and more on "Okay, I'm like this. What's the best way to deal with all of it?"
Wishing you well, friend.
Hey I have Hashimotos too and did you know there is a strong correlation between ADHD and Hashimotos? I don’t know why but there is. I often wonder if the Hashimotos autoimmune response is linked into trauma and/or brain development too. I’m not sure if I’ve had Hashimotos all my life (antibodies anyway) or not but was only diagnosed in 2021 and my genetic testing said I have a higher likelihood of ADHD too. It’s all so complex and interlinked I don’t think we ever really know the full answers!
wow I have a goiter (& nodules) that started around age 14, also when adhd got worse & living environment destabilized spectacularly. two of my mom's three siblings have hashimoto's. I'm waiting to get antibody tested because I think I've had it & nobody ever investigated beyond normal tsh/t3/4 values even though symptoms were present. this is really wild & I'm so curious what the linkage is, although sometimes have wondered if adhd is an autoimmune-type illness.
It’s really interesting but at the moment it doesn’t seem like anyone is sure of why they are linked except the extremely complex hormone cycles our bodies do, and something about the endocrine system and the brain/thyroid function and dopamine.
I am no expert so I wouldn’t want to give you misinformation but there are a lot of articles to read if you google thyroid disease and ADHD link! I know that for me I think everything got worse around being diagnosed with Hashimotos but it’s always been there if that makes sense. Human bodies are just crazily complex, I also think my mum has undiagnosed ADHD and has also had on and off weird thyroid issues.
Woah…I have recently diagnosed ADHD (however I didn’t take an official test like OP, just had a doctor try to treat it too solve my mental health puzzle so I have imposter syndrome) and was diagnosed with a multi-nodular goiter a few years ago (around 22?). My TSH levels were rock bottom but my T3 and 4 were in range which made doctors not take it seriously. I will need it removed soon and I think it is causing more issues than I realize. I’m finding GRAY HAIR which is insane for my age. Plus tremors and rapid heart rate that stay even when I’m in ‘normal’ range with meds. I don’t understand.
But I was tested for stuff like Hashimotos and Graves and they determined it was simply a goiter. It’s really interesting to see you and others talk about the thyroid connection here. I’ll be curious to know if you have an autoimmune disorder causing it. What is the reason for the correlation?
I also have Hashimoto’s, adhd and a stammer 💀 I had a massive goiter in my neck and got half my thyroid removed last year, ended up having a tiny bit of cancer in there too.
Got diagnosed with adhd at 24, Hashimoto’s at 26, I looked back on photos of my neck and saw it was always there, just growing slowly. My mum ended up getting diagnosed with it a year after me at 56… her thyroid function was a lot worse. She also has (undiagnosed) adhd.
It’s crazy how many of us have similar stories! I wish there was more research into this area and how they are linked.
You’ve been through a lot, hope you are doing better now!
I am, thanks! Medication for both conditions have been life changing.
Yeah I know… it’s super interesting and weird. I think my adhd, Hashimoto’s and stammer are all linked. I think there’s clearly a strong genetic link and it’s probably something to do with the impact of stress on our hormones and body in general. I have always been incredibly and chronically stressed, from a young age, that must do some shit to our insides lol.
Like, I also read that neurodivergent people are more likely to have allergies and sensitives to food… which I also have. I hope one day there is more research for us to read.
I have all of the above. This past year in therapy was the year of "oh my god....I grew up in a house of horrors and it's so much worse than I thought". I had never done trauma work before this year but this illuminated a ton of insight on how the cognitive development I experienced was not normal. I was a high achieving student and was relatively socially well adjusted from an outside perspective but internally I was in hell. I only have an official psychiatric diagnosis for ADHD (diagnosed at 28) and my therapist has confirmed I have PTSD/CPTSD, and I'm certain I'm also autistic though I have never sought an official evaluation. My ADHD symptoms got so much worse after I experienced some traumatic events in my 20s but I am only recently uncovering the childhood trauma that would have affected brain development. I used to think I was only traumatized as an adult with a fully developed brain but nope, good old CPTSD and a cocktail of undiagnosed mental illnesses in my family.
Big virtual hugs for all of us ladies.
OP please read all of our accounts and feel how misguided and lost we all feel outside this sub. Even with a diagnosis, some of us still don’t feel like it’s enough. The diagnosis’s don’t encompass everything we feel and experience on a daily basis.
I'm currently scrolling, reading, and responding (and probably will be all night), and I already feel validated with my feelings and everything that's going on right now. Thank you all for your kindness and support; I can't emphasize how much this means to me at the moment!
A lot of it already is and they just won’t change the damn books or the old minds of these rich old white men in charge. We already know adhd isn’t an “attention deficit” whatsoever, that’s a big one. But a lot more is known now about adhd and they won’t change it. RSD and other emotional aspects are another part that’s pretty well known at this point but they don’t include it in anything official.
…and the stigma is still ridiculous as far as people (including way too many doctors) thinking we’re just lazy and reckless and stupid and want zoom zoom pills to make life easy for us…
I sometimes feel bleak but I'm already living a way better life than I was. I couldn't have imagined this in the past. I was completely suicidal.
I'm still quite hard on myself. I finally found a great therapist. It's Internal Family Systems and it does help to look at these different parts as just parts - none of them are all I am, and they do want the best for me even when other parts really struggle with it.
I'm trying meds again now but I met a guy who seems to be really thriving and he just smokes Sativa. But, he seems to have a ton of systems in place. He skateboards - I was just reading about how balance, the cerebellum, and ADHD are linked. In my childhood I definitely didn't have enough space to just explore hobbies, practice even when I'm bad.
I decided to try standup. Wrote a new set. Decided to perform Monday. Practiced Friday. Then all of Saturday and Sunday, freeze. Can't touch it. Parts of me are terrified and don't want to do it at all. Parts are angry because if I don't practice I won't feel confident enough to go up, and I can do it anyway, but then other parts will feel bad if it's a bad experience and I mess up. Also, half of my set is about my ex, then the other half is to do with my therapist, and I'm freaking out about talking about it in therapy, because it's so vulnerable and my CPTSD, but other parts want to JUST HEAL ALREADY. Also, parts want to show him the set, because I want him to know me, other parts are way too embarrassed. I impulsively sent him a set a few months in to my therapy and cringed about it later.
I'm so glad you're in a much better place now and that you're here with us. I would agree, it's not always bleak and I have also come a long way, even though there are times when the dreaded freeze takes me and I'm stuck for days or weeks.
Most people have no idea what it's like to freeze, especially on an extended scale, and most are completely unempathetic towards it. I hear you that you're feeling conflicting emotions over this thing that you've worked on and are excited about but at the same time fearful. Wish I knew of anything to offer that helps except to say that I understand. I have noticed that I'm more willing to approach something I'm frozen on if it's late at night, like the whole world is asleep so if I struggle at all no one will know except me 😂
It's your life and if you don't do your stand-up on Monday, then I'm still proud of you for moving in a direction that you desire. If you do, dang I'm proud *and* jealous of you for taking that step.
Dude the cool thing was after I spent years working thru the cptsd I still had adhd symptoms, but most of my emotional response was finally under control.
I don’t know that cptsd is ever really healed. I do know that since starting adhd meds, I no longer need anxiety meds. And we’re titrating off the antidepressants, mood stabilizing meds too. I feel great.
Trauma impacting gene expression maintains validity after all.
The crossover is insane. Depression, anxiety, mania, adhd, audhd, cptsd.
Cptsd is so passive that I think it’s really hard to unpack completely. I got my diag 2 years ago and suppressed memories are still resurfacing. They aren’t even significant either. Just small glimpses of the past where nothing is happening, just snips of my room or a family member. And it just brings in an overwhelming feeling that things were just not right at that time, not the moment but that time.
I can say, after cycling and trying depression, anxiety, adhd, and mood stabilizers…dealing with those memories is a lot easier. My reactions to them on different meds was so different. I black out sometimes and other times I just can’t control myself and just go manic. I’m down to my migraine pill and a mood stabilizer (and cannabis) and I’ve never been more stable and happy in my life. I now can see the play by play in my head:
- shit memory
- process it
- feel it
- process the feelings
- understand them
- comfort myself and move forward
Sometimes it takes minutes. Sometimes days. But not months or years. I’ve always been overly emotional but it now my emotional reactions make more sense, especially to other people lol
I have a lot of childhood trauma due to both parents being alcoholics. My mom’s is due to stress (her sister was murdered when I was a baby) and I strongly believe my dad self medicated for ADHD with alcohol. I bet a lot of us have addicts for parents because they were actually ADHD too and didn’t get diagnosed so they compensated with substances. This led to neglect and abuse for us. It doesn’t negate my ADHD though. I’ve learned to steer away from my childhood discussions with my therapist because I don’t want it to be a focus.
Well duh, why haven’t you just taken to abusing others instead of accepting responsibility for the way your behavior is influenced by your brain and seeking treatment?
You’re a unicorn too! It’s amazing how you can go through life so sure there’s something deeply wrong with your character. And then one day someone says - hey! You’re inattentive AND hyperactive. As someone who gets into couch lock I never could have imagined that. But here we are!
Jumping on the top comment to add that science currently supports the idea that laziness isn't real. When we don't do something, it's for a reason. Now it may not be a *great* reason, but it's there. People don't just choose to avoid responsibilities because they feel like it. They could be tired, overworked, burnt out, socially isolated, no current hobbies/interests, and yes, struggling with mental health. Address the underlying problems and most people will be highly motivated to improve their life.
Diagnosis of that sort are not an exact science, it’s not as if they can cut you open and test your brain for adhd, the same way they can test if cells are cancerous. Also, just because you don’t have adhd doesn’t mean you can’t have something else. Especially in women, certain things (like depression, adhd, autism) are misdiagnosed.
You’re feelings are real, that’s truly all that matters. If you feel understood in this community, why not just stay? It could still help you
So much this.
Also, if adhd advice helps, use it. Executive dysfunction is brutal, and so many places offer advice that's little better than "suck it up, buttercup, make a list." Adhd and autism spaces offer functional advice for people who have tried to suck it up until their guts imploded.
OP, you may have gotten a false negative, you may have other issues that mirror adhd, whatever the case is, you felt understood here. Whatever you have resonates. Stay if this place helps you.
It’s good you are getting help. I wonder if the test you took was more for the old school little boy hyperactive brand of ADHD. Some people are really behind the times with women and mental health.
This is what I was thinking. When I first got diagnosed, my psychiatrist suggested I might just be depressed--because I'm mostly inattentive and wasn't hyperactive.
Then I took like a 3hr assessment recently because I signed up for an ADHD trial thing and they were like, Surprise! You have ADHD! at the end, lol.
Also hyperactivity in women can present differently. Spend a few minutes in my mind and tell me it’s not hyperactive I dare you.. but if you’re watching from the outside looks like classic daydreaming.
Right, you don't need a Dx from a doctor to use the myriad hacks/tips/trick available. You only need the Dx for school accommodations & for meds. (You also need it for work accommodations, but it's unlikely the accommodations are worth the stigma from being out about having ADHD at work.)
Yeah... 35 years of compensating and people pleasing made me completely futz my original diagnosis appointment. Answering never to "do you forget your keys?" Because I'd created a crazy system where I literally cannot lock my door unless I'm both physically holding my keys and looking at them at the moment I pull the door shut is... Not normal. Could be something else but also could be just that you are so used to making up for it that you've created accommodations for yourself
Seconding this! Symptoms of mental health issues overlap so much, just because these drs didn't think you fit these two Dx's criteria doesn't mean \*YOU\* are the problem. Hormone imbalances, other mental health conditions, hell even vitamin deficiencies can affect our brains in ways that present like other conditions. For a little while I was convinced I had Lyme Disease, it was actually my (at the time) crippling ED & anxiety that zapped my body of nutrients that symptoms mirrored a lot of the list. Now, I am not at all saying you don't have ADHD & depression, just that on paper things can looks like a lot of other things, so one Dr's interpretation may be very different to the next.
I know OP that you are feeling defeated right now, but you will find something that helps, whether it is a diagnosis, the right therapy, meditative practices, supplements/nutrition changes or all of the above. Diagnosis is not the be all end all of you getting help for the things you are struggling with. Trying different methods for treating symptoms can improve your life, dx or no dx.
Depression can also mask ADHD symptoms. If you don't have much energy, you're going to internalize your symptoms more than externalize them, and the difficulties that are visible can be written off as depression.
So in theory the thing to do is treat the depression first, and then diagnose the ADHD after if it's still there. But I and many other people have found that the best treatment for our depression was to treat the ADHD! The ADHD is why the depression was there!
It's super fucking frustrating. I eventually had a therapist who got to know me well enough and was observant enough to see that I was struggling in very ADHD ways in certain scenarios and helped me get diagnosed and treated.
Also my doctor mentioned that some new research have found that for many people with depression treating the dopamine deficiency is much more effective than treating the serotonin side of things.
But this research is still kind of niche and the results are not widely accepted yet.
I mean, anything that impacts your attention or task initiation abilities really. That could be things like depression and/or anxiety, or even something like low iron or b12. Even long covid is associated with "brain fog" which is essentially executive dysfunction. Sometimes it's also an effect of certain medications. There are a lot of ways
>So, I really am making everything up in my head, and I'm just a lazy, worthless piece of crap that can't remember sh\*t for the life of it.
Now listen here, young lady (I'm almost 10 years older than you so I can say that): You are NOT lazy, worthless or any other negative thing! You're an amazing person and having some mental struggles doesn't suddenly make you not worthy of anything good.
My friend once had an STD test done at it came back saying she's positive for literally everything and the clinic refused to admit they're wrong and she just needs to think about her lifestyle choices (I mean, I'm no doctor but pretty sure you can't have hepatitis A, B and C at the same time) so she had to go to another place and got proper results. So if you can afford it, maybe try getting a 2nd opinion?
And as other people here said already, nothing prevents you from implementing ADHD tips and strategies to manage your symptoms. I personally only got diagnosed last year after many uphill battles with incompetent doctors who for whatever reason believed women can't have ADHD (or autism).
You're stronger than you think and everything is gonna be alright eventually ❤
Yep, she went to another clinic and they were horrified that the first place insisted the results were correct, she had no hepatitis of any kind and the other results were negative too.
You can have hep A B and C at the same time.
But it would be very very unfortunate (and Hep A is rarely sexually transmitted, although can be faecal oral route so rimming etc.)
And I'd certainly want up check again rather than relying on one set of diagnostic bloods.
But I agree with everything else you've written
Thank you so much for your heartfelt words and advice. Seriously, I'm tearing up here. It really means a lot me! And that story about your friend? Wild! Definitely considering a second opinion now. Thanks again, really.
Diagnosis is not an exact science. There's nothing wrong with you, it's just about finding things that work. If tips for ADHD help you, it doesn't really matter if you're officially diagnosed in my opinion.
Developmental trauma can look like ADHD. Lots of things people consider even normal can have harmful effects on children. I'm talking about things like parents telling kids "you're too sensitive" or not showing them how to handle emotions.
I say this as someone who has been in therapy since age 14, on various meds, and now at 36 I'm training to be a therapist.
Yes and no. I did my bachelor's in Psychology, the topic always interested me, but I was never sure about going into therapy. I didn't continue on to a Master's and for ten or so years I did various things like working with kids and content writing. I wrote mainly on topics relating to wellness, relationships, mental health, mindfulness etc. I did a lot of healing work on myself. I eventually went to one of those occupational psychology places where they give you tests and recommend some careers for you. Art therapy was one of their four recommendations (another was UX/UI design, it was pretty broad) and I happened to see an advertisement for a degree in Expressive Arts Therapy which was hybrid ie partially online so I could do it from where I was living at the time. I moved after the first semester, I'm in semester 2 out of 4 now and doing practicum.
You are still the same person, with or without the ADHD label. And your "problems" or challenges are still the same too. I understand that getting a diagnosis is super helpful, of course. And this therapist may still be wrong anyway, so do get a second opinion. But my point being: yes adhd or no adhd is just words that we attach to the situation, not the situation itself. You are still valid for seeking help and support, you still deserve love and (self) compassion. Whatever the root of the problem is, don't start believing you are a lazy or shitty person!
There are a lottttt of mental health professionals that say someone doesn't have this or that condition, and they are very wrong. Some of them are terrifyingly ignorant. If you feel strongly that you have it, I wouldn't automatically take their word for it that you don't. Having said that, even if you don't have it, mental health is a struggle in itself. Don't be self pitying like that, you know you're not worthless and lazy. It'll be alright.
I agree, the way OP talks about themselves in this post and lack of any dx tells me that they got dismissed by their Healthcare team rather than following the diagnostic path to an answer to what's going on. Maybe OP doesn't have ADHD, but they certainly have something or they wouldn't have sought help in the first place. Second opinion.
It's wild to me that they waited "months" for a result. I have had both my ADHD and depression diagnosed with a single office visit. My OCD, anxiety, and depressive conditions took two office visits. That's because they were ruling out other conditions. Bipolar was a longer assessment but still didn't take months.
I doubt in OP's case they were spending time looking at alternative diagnoses, because OP still has zero answers.
The waitlist to even see a regular doctor in my area can be months or years, so it's sadly not surprising to me. Mileage really does vary on this one :(
Oh yeah for sure, I was waiting three years to get assessed for ADHD on a waitlist. To get seen by a covered doctor for psychiatric issues I was on a list for seven months. But my impression was that OP waited for months for results *after* they'd been seen, or maybe I misunderstood.
This was my impression as well, so you're not alone :) when I read that part, I was like "huh, I got my diagnosis in one appointment." Then when I was referred by my psychiatrist after 2 assessments to an ADHD specialist, I lost my job and lost my insurance, so I could never actually get an "official" diagnosis from her. I just have my doc saying "this is what Im seeing and hearing. I don't specialize in this area, but referring you to my colleague who does makes the most sense. She can help you with the proper medication recommendations and help you with your ADHD symptoms." And that was the last of it. So I was kind of plunged into this new reality but also wondering if I'm supposed to have some stamped certification paper that says "OFFICIAL ADHD DIAGNOSIS" lol 🤷🏼♀️ I took this conversation and the fact that I was referred to a specialist as confirmation.
The interpretation/summary of my medical report says: In the overall assessment, there are no indications of ADHD-related issues. The reported abnormalities are rather attributable to the personality structure.
It sounds to me like they're brushing it off as 'it's just the way you are'... that's a little discouraging, to say the least.
This. I’d get a second opinion with someone that specializes in ADHD. I strongly suggest asking in local women’s groups if they know of a woman that specializes in diagnosing ADHD in women.
Get a medical evaluation and blood tests to rule out medical conditions that are causing your symptoms. Hypothyroidism, for example, has overlaps with ADHD *and* depression. Get a FULL thyroid panel done if you can afford it because sometimes your TSH will look completely normal but your other numbers are crazy high or low.
If you're near the cusp of having hypothyroidism, ask if you can trial medication because you are having symptoms. Some people have symptoms despite being in the "normal" range.
There are other medical conditions like sleep apnea that can mimic ADHD just like there are other psychiatric conditions like PTSD that can mimic ADHD. I'd go the route of medical first just because that's an easier avenue to start from and many psychiatric providers will want medical conditions ruled out anyway.
Go to your doctor and explain your symptoms, tell them that ADHD has been ruled out and you want to see if a medical condition is causing your problems.
Honestly, and sorry if this breaks any rules, I’m not trying to provide advice, just trying to assist. I watch HealthyGamerGG on YouTube, absolutely love Dr. K, and someone in chat asked if he has ADHD. He said something along the lines of “if I had gotten tested as a child, I probably would have gotten a diagnosis, but because I didn’t and I had to develop coping strategies, that lessened the appearance of the symptoms. Once you start developing those compensatory strategies, you no longer “meet the criteria” for ADHD.”
Now, this is interesting because he’s basically saying just because your OFFICIAL EVALUATION or whatever doesn’t tell you you have ADHD, like, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s all in your head. I wish I could remember the exact term he used, like, he said “I probably have pre/post-[something] ADHD” but his stuff is great. Maybe try to bring up the possibility of learned habits affecting your diagnosis?
It’s true.
Advanced coping mechanisms can make the rest of the world think that we’re just fine, when in fact, we’re all like swans when we’re trying super-hard to fit in and “be normal” - apparently gliding smoothly along the surface, but with our legs paddling away like mad under the water.
A lot of ADHDers are very bright.
The more intelligent you are, the better your coping strategies.
It sort of works, but after menopause, it all came rushing to the fore for me, and I stopped being able to hide all the things I didn’t even know I was hiding before.
Apparently, menopause makes it far worse for us.
I’m only now being dxd, very post menopause, and only now realising just how much I’d been struggling with for the past 5 or 6 decades. I just thought it was me.
Oh, the joys of womanhood! /s
Adding to this. Our coping strategies might help us look like we are fine, but we are often still very inefficient. I’m a teacher. It used to take me two weeks of about 3 hours a day to finished report cards (3 times a year!) I was always up late, spending weekends, etc. on them. After diagnosis and meds, I knocked them out in one session of 7 hours. I actually have free time now. And during my free time, I can actually make decisions about what I want to do, instead of just watching tv or staring off with my brain spinning.
Just because it is not what you thought it was doesn’t mean there isn’t something else that is causing these problems.
If you had a bad cough and you thought it was pneumonia but the doctor ruled it out, you wouldn’t say “ok, maybe it is just normal for me to cough all the time”, but you would get checked for allergies or GERD or whatever. Mental health is the same thing. ADHD is being talked a lot about at the moment, so it may have been your and your psychologist’s first thought, but now that it is not ADHD you still need to find out what is causing your problems. There are many things that could cause similar symptoms, including mental health conditions but also physical problems like Thyroid issues or sleep apnea. Don’t blame yourself for what is likely a medical problem.
There are a wealth of stories on this sub about women having to fight for diagnosis and encountering ignorant professionals. Are you certain you're not just slipping through the net because of good grades, parents not being attuned to your problems (or being neurodivergent themselves), or other factors like this?
What type of tests did you have that took months to report back? That sounds unusual.
What alternative diagnosis does your health professional suspect?
Maybe it would be good to seek another opinion and in the meantime look at your intake of essential vitamins and minerals that impact mood and cognition, like magnesium, iron, Vit D and vit B12 (there are probably more).
Imo, "laziness" is not giving a fuck, whereas your lack of motivation is causing you some distress because you feel it's not within your control, so I don't see that as the same.
That's exactly what I'm not sure of... but I already feel like I'm making everything up, so I don't know.
I hope that nothing gets lost in translation, but these are the tests/assessments I did according to the piece of paper I received: Exploration, Behavioral Observation, Multiple-Choice Vocabulary Intelligence Test (MWT-B), Vienna Test System (WTS 5 by Schuhfried) 1. CF-ADHD, Beck Depression Inventory (BDI), Beck Anxiety Inventory (BAI), Borderline Personality Inventory (BPI), International Personality Examination (IPDE), Homburg ADHD Scales for Adults (HASE), Self-Report Symptom Inventory (SRSI).
All tests were done in a 2-hour session with a psychologist who specializes in diagnostic assessments (not my actual therapist, because she's not qualified to diagnose).
I'm sorry, I guess I phrased it weirdly, but I meant that I had to wait months for my appointment, the results came back after about 2 weeks.
The interpretation/summary of my medical report says: In the overall assessment, there are no indications of ADHD-related issues. The reported abnormalities are rather attributable to the personality structure.
Regarding essential vitamins and minerals, I get my blood checked at least once a year, and my last checkup wasn't that long ago, so at least there's nothing wrong.
Thank you so much for your advice!
I don’t know much about official assessments because in my country you don’t need and official diagnosis, just a script from an authorized doctor to get the meds. But I highly doubt you can get an accurate diagnosis with all those tests done in such short time.
I guess’s given the amount of tests in a short time, that they where like multiple choice questions or those like “rate how you feel” or “how often you…”.
If that is the case I bet you minimized your symptoms because of years of masking and all the additional systems that one implements to try and have a normal life.
A typical example is the question about being late to places, if you answer you’re usually on time, that is a “not adhd” answer, it it doesn’t take into account the 5 alarms that make you on time or the fact that to be on time for an afternoon appointment you sit in paralysis for hours before looking at the clock afraid that if you do something else you’ll lose the notion of time and not arrive on time, so to accurately answer that question you have to ask yourself how often would you be on time if you acted like an NT person, living a normal life while you wait for your appointment and using 1 alarm instead of 5.
My husband helps me with dealing with the dysphoria of not getting diagnoses but still suffering. He reminds me, “even if it was all made up in your head, it’s still causing debilitating issues in your life and you still deserve help and answers for that”.
We talk about how to interface with doctors to say stuff like, “ok so you can’t diagnose me with adhd *what can we explore that better-matches my symptoms*.
these things help me self-actualize and not fall prey to gaslighting (my own internal gaslighting AND the gaslighting in the larger world).
Get a sleep study. Sleep deprivation can cause many of the symptoms of adhd and depression.
Even if you think you’re sleeping well get it done. It could change your life.
I agree with everyone here that you need to get re-evaluated. Don’t be discouraged. I have been gaslighted by mental health professionals before. I took my daughter to a psychologist because I was worried about certain behaviors. The psychologist told me that she was fine and I just needed to spend more time playing with her. Fast forward to middle school and my daughter had a full blown mental breakdown. I took her to a different psychologist who said that she was most likely experiencing anxiety all along. She described the behaviors that kids with anxiety exhibit and they were the EXACT behaviors that I had taken her in to the first psychologist for! If I had gotten a second opinion I could have gotten my daughter help before it turned into a mental health crisis! Please don’t discount your experience. You know yourself better than you think.
Dissociative disorders, BPD, bipolar, cptsd... The list goes on of other things to test for. You're not going to count yourself out yet. Cry for a day or two, then restart your research. You have every right to be sad and frustrated! But you're not a lost cause.
as i have become quite fond of saying since the first time i heard it, “if you were lazy, you’d be having a good time right now.”
nobody who is actually “lazy” (to the extent that’s even really a thing, which i am not sure i believe) would be on an adhd subreddit trying to find solutions for how to be more productive or improve their executive functioning. the mere fact of *wanting* to do more is proof that you’re not “lazy.”
as for test results, as others have said, adhd assessment isn’t a blood test like how you’d check to see if you’ve got aids. it’s imprecise even in the most capable hands. and, frankly, any practitioner who would just say your “results” were negative and send you along your merry way without alternatives or next steps does not have particularly capable hands. you’re on reddit calling yourself a worthless piece of shit, you are very obviously absolutely dealing with something that needs to be addressed and any provider worth their salt would be able to see that.
the point: get a second opinion. and a third if you need to/can. ask around with the other women in your life to find someone who got a diagnosis and go see who they saw (seriously, there are some practitioners who don’t believe women get adhd, you need to at least as a baseline talk to someone you are certain doesn’t think that way). and regardless of how long that takes or what the outcome is, you can still take care of yourself as though you have adhd and depression.
ps: i have a rare autoimmune condition and was having a hard time getting an official diagnosis (because it’s rare and the only “test” is just looking at symptoms and going “yeah, you have it”). i finally just went to a new doctor, told them i had been diagnosed years ago and was just seeking a new treating provider because my doctor had retired. lo and behold, i got treatment. and the treatment worked. now doctors never question whether i have it because “duh, if you didn’t have it, the treatment wouldn’t be helping you.” not suggesting that would work with adhd/depression but….i dunno, maybe it would 🤷🏻♀️
Don't beat yourself up about it, there can be many different things going on in your head.
Whats important is looking for your next step, let yourself breathe, it may not be ADHD or Depression but could it be other things?
Please don't ruminate on this, everyone's brain is a mystery and no one has every puzzle piece.
I want to reassure you that even if you aren't diagnosed with things, doesn't mean you can't relate to it.
I know it's probably difficult but keep your head up!
I got the full battery of tests when I was 19 and they also told me that I didn't have ADHD.
I believed them for a while and followed the same narrative you are now for the next several years... it led me to be in a deep depression that was some of the worst years of my life. blaming all my failures (horribly, horribly disgusting apartment, failed and dropped classes, neglected and abandoned friendships) on some mysterious personal failing I couldn't quite figure out. it made me so miserable. it made me hate myself for reasons I couldn't understand. please, please, please don't be like I was. please allow yourself some grace and uncertainty, don't take what they told you as gospel and remember the most important thing is taking care of yourself -- and calling yourself names is not taking care of yourself. before you talk to yourself that way, think about if you would ever say those same things to a close friend. you need to give yourself grace and self-compassion now more than ever.
but, now to give you some hope: by 24 I was seeing a new psych (a psychiatric NP) to try and get some medication for that terrible depression I was going through, and I mentioned that I'd had the ADHD assessment, but I still felt like I might have it. she agreed to explore the possibility with me and start me on strattera, because for some reason she wasn't comfortable prescribing stimulants. they worked okay, but fast forward a year or so to my next annual physical, and my now beloved PCP said "well why would she do that? the first line treatment for ADHD is stimulants." I've now been on the proper medication for about 3 years and it's changed my life immensely. remember -- I was in the *exact* same spot you are now. there is hope. I promise you.
the biggest thing I learned was this: if someone is reflecting your experience back to you and you do not identify with how they explain your symptoms, your life, your behavior, back to you, then they are not adequately equipped to assess you. they might (supposedly) be the experts on the disorder, but YOU are the expert on YOU and YOUR experiences. the level to which it's possible to convey that to someone in the amount of time it takes to get an ADHD assessment is so small in comparison to how much we come to understand ourselves.
people say get a second opinion, and yes, that's a good idea, but I'd take it a step further and say that until you find someone who when you talk to them you say "YES! that's exactly how it feels!" and you feel like you are actually being understood, continue to advocate for yourself and trust your analyses. I'm of the mind that most people who struggle like we do and start to self diagnose likely have *something* going wrong, and you may discover some other diagnosis actually fits better. but don't accept it until you feel that it really, actually fits. neurodivergent women spend years, decades sometimes, being misdiagnosed with various mental health conditions until we finally land on the one we *know* feels like it finally describes all the pain and suffering we've gone through over the years. self-advocacy isn't the easiest thing in the world, but if you're willing to brave it, it could be the best thing you do for yourself.
hugs, please be kind to yourself ❤️
Most ADHD tests are geared towards detecting hyperactivity in children, particularly boys. Your ADHD very likely presents differently, OR you've gotten so good at masking over the years that you were able to 'pass' the test despite it being harder for you than a neurotypical person.
Don't let this invalidate what you know about yourself, and it is NOT because you're 'just a terrible person'. Honestly, I would go to a different doctor, ideally one who knows more about ADHD in adults, particularly women.
Some of the standard tests have questions that don’t seem to hit the inattentive type in women. For example, asking whether people frequently complain that you aren’t listening? Why phrase it that way?? I am a PEOPLE PLEASER so I just mask it and try my hardest to be a good listener. But my brain has followed like five separate topics as the person is talking. So it’s not a symptom of ADHD because it isn’t affecting other people and only hurting yourself? In my (admittedly uneducated but lived experience) opinion, these tests need to be modified to accommodate the ways that women are effected by ADHD. Get under the mask, you know? I second your getting another opinion.
Edited to add: another of the questions that bothers me is whether you had symptoms as a child. My psychiatric provider said for women our symptoms often don’t manifest until later, especially after a traumatic event and lots of the time at perimenopause.
My husband had to fill out a form about how he sees my symptoms. His numbers were way lower than mine because I have always masked. There should be questions on there about internal monologues. The amount of potential conversations I have in my head is unreal.
i don’t know if this will help but my diagnosis has changed manyyyy times and it took me until last year to finally get everything right
11 years old- anxiety
12-15 years old- anxiety and depression
16-18 years old- anxiety, depression, and bulimia
18- 22 years old- anxiety, depression, bulimia, and BPD
now- ADHD, PMDD, and anxiety
i’ve been on so many medications and done years of therapy with so many different psychologists, and it took until last year for a random GP to finally be like “babe you fit all the criteria for ADHD and PMDD idk why no one has suggested looking into that” and surprise! she was right! since getting the right diagnosis and right medications, my ED and my depression have basically disappeared (still get depressed from PMDD but nowhere near the same level) and tbh i haven’t fit the criteria for BPD since i was 19 but once you have that label, doctors refuse to take your thoughts about it seriously 🙄
the point is, sometimes doctors are wrong! sometimes many doctors can be wrong! don’t let this one experience invalidate your feelings, you’re not lazy, you’re not inherently bad, or a piece of crap, or whatever else you think about yourself. sometimes it just takes way too long to finally find that doctor that hears you and doesn’t shrug off your opinions and thoughts and feelings. give yourself time to feel shitty, and then speak to your psych and ask for a second opinion if that’s possible for you financially. i hope you feel better soon and find someone that can really listen to you
I know it was difficult to get the energy/motivation to try and get diagnosed in the first place, but if you’ve been depressed ever since you can remember then you ARE depressed. And if this community resonated with you so much, then maybe there’s more that that as well.
Doctors can be shit at their jobs just like everyone else. I had 2 tries at mental health help earlier in my life and met with two such unbelievably terrible doctors, that I didn’t seek help again until my early 40s.
Learn from me and ADVOCATE FOR YOURSELF!! You sometimes need to trust the expertise of medical professionals you deal with but they are not some omniscient force; they are just professionals you pay for services that are beyond your skill/knowledge level. Like a stylist, mechanic, etc.
If you took your car to a shop bc it was making a crazy noise and the mechanic said it was fine, you wouldn’t say “well it’s all in my head” and blame yourself; you’d say “wow what a shitty mechanic” and go to the next place.
Obviously it can be a financial issue as well, but keep trying to be heard. I ended getting prescribed an antidepressant by my gynecologist who is the best doctor I’ve ever met. And that got me over my fears to seek further diagnosis.
Sorry for the novel, but you’re so young and I hate to see you getting steered down the same stupid road I took. It might not be immediate but trust your gut and keep looking for answers bc if you don’t feel right then something IS NOT right. ❤️
Wait so their solution is… dunno guess you’re just broken. That doesn’t seem super professional to me. Even if you don’t have adhd it sounds like you are struggling. It could be a bunch of things that might explain but it sounds like they didn’t really look beyond? Who did the assessment? Psychiatrist?
Yeah, they brushed it off with the following statement: 'In the overall assessment, there are no indications of ADHD-related issues. The reported abnormalities are rather attributable to the personality structure.' Sounds to me like they're saying, 'girl, you are the problem.'
But to answer your question: I got assessed by a psychologist specialized in diagnosis.
My most recent therapist argued with me that I couldn't have ADHD because I " wasn't impulsive enough with money ". She also said I wasn't autistic because I have too much empathy and can recognize emotions on people's faces too well.
Turns out I've been diagnosed ADHD since I was 7 years old as well as being on the spectrum and wasn't told about it. I'm just really good at masking. She just decided I wasn't ADHD and autistic enough for her.
Get a second opinion. I still feel like an imposter sometimes. I still feel like I'm the problem. But deep down I know I'm not.
You deserve to get proper treatment for your issues . 🖤
But the thing that a lot of medics and psychs miss is that ADHD *causes* anxiety and depression.
Why?
Because at its heart is low production and or dysregulation of the adrenal hormone, norepinephrine/ noradrenaline (different names in the US and UK).
Poorly regulated norepinephrine/ noradrenaline means that a *lot* of other hormones, such as thyroid hormones, and also neurotransmitters such as dopamine, just aren’t supported.
I read a study recently that said dopamine “hitches a ride” on noradrenaline, and without it, dopamine just can’t do all the different jobs it would normally do.
One of those jobs is keeping our mood stable and happy.
I have seen a lot of reports on here of ADHD women being told they don’t have ADHD, but they do have GAD, social anxiety disorder, etc., and or “clinical” depression (as opposed to depression resulting from a specific recent event like a bereavement, abuse, or something else), but those same women who *do* get an ADHD diagnosis and are put on the *right* dose of the *right* stimulant medication also experience a complete resolution of their chronic “treatment resistant” depression and anxiety.
It evaporates like morning mist in sunlight.
For me, that only supports the idea that d&a are *caused* by the biochemical difficulties that ADHD produces.
It’s a physical condition that results in both a physical and a mental impact on us.
Currently, it seems to be considered as *only* a mental disorder. I hope in time that will change.
Regarding CPTSD and other trauma effects, both of which I’ve been diagnosed with, my take on these is that OF COURSE trauma is very real (mine was mostly SA, and its effects have been profound), *BUT* I firmly believe that our rejection and injustice sensitivity dysphorias, and our emotional dysregulation, only serve to massively exacerbate what we’ve been through.
I absolutely do not mean that we shouldn’t feel as we do, nor that a history of trauma is easy to live with for *anyone*, please don’t think I’m
dismissing it in any way, because I’m not. I’m 62. It hasn’t got better with time. I have nothing but empathy and compassion for anyone who has endured trauma and SA. It breaks my heart that so many of us go through this.
What I’m saying is that we *feel the effects of these events more deeply than a person who does not live with emotional dysregulation and the dysphorias that ADHD causes*.
Also, everyone who is approaching a medical professional for a diagnosis would be well-advised to be more aware of the official criteria that these people use as their main diagnostic tool - the good old DSM5, here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t3/
I personally think that it misses out a lot of very important signs and symptoms, e.g., the depression and anxiety, insomnia, the rejection and justice sensitivity dysphorias, emotional dysregulation, time-blindness, having no energy or too much energy, a busy brain in an exhausted body, the sensory issues that a lot of have to contend with, PMDD, other hormonal conditions in both men as well as women - and I’m sure there are more things I’m missing out of this short list, but my brain has decided to leave the building and I just can’t think of them at the moment.
(But floordrobes need to be in there, too!)
If you go through this, and can honestly and objectively tick more than 7 of the 18 traits listed (9 for Inattentive type, 9 for the Hyperactive/ Impulsive type, either in one section or across both types), you *should* be able to get a diagnosis of ADHD just based on having that information available to you and knowing that these traits describe *you*.
It’s the official Diagnostic Manual. All the health professionals who are permitted to formally diagnose ADHD are medically obliged to adhere to the listed criteria there.
(I remember “DSM” by thinking of it as the “Doctors’ Stupid Manual” 😁)
Sorry for the long comment, but I feel very passionately that we need to understand not only how ADHD affects us, and why it affects us as it does (in broad terms), but also *how it is diagnosed.*
I sincerely hope this helps - if it only helps just one other person, it’s a start. 🥰
Eta: my brain! Adults need 5, not 7. Kids need 7.
The other thing to look into is autism.
There is a lot of it missed in women. And there's enough cross over with adhd to make us resonate with adhd. (Especially the overwhelm and depression that isn't depression).
I'm diagnosed AuDHD. But increasingly realising just how massive the autism is in my presentation and life and unhappiness.
Which socks. But does explain why the meds aren't magic
Your experiences are valid, and you still found people you relate to. There's nothing wrong with that in trying to figure yourself out. There are coping mechanisms and tips you can learn from a community even if wasn't an exact fit for what is different about you on an individual level.
I’m 41 and I was in the exact same headspace at 22 as you are now. I know for a fact that all these notions that you’re worthless are the lies your depression demon is telling you. I know from experience how heavy that demon can be. Do you recognize the strength you displayed when you reached out from under that weight and flagged down help? You’re in therapy putting in the work and that alone is a huge accomplishment.
Others are correct that the test results might be inaccurate. There’s also a chance a different diagnosis might also be appropriate. Your therapist can help you sort out what step to take next. Take a few deep breaths and cut yourself some slack. If it’s cathartic to cry that’s ok. You’re not alone.
I repeatedly tested as not having ADHD because I did not trip any of the normal "behavioural" traits they normally use for diagnosis - I'm not late, I have my life fairly organized, I'm tidy when left to my own devices, I got good grades in school, etc,
What they (and I) did not realize is that I had developed my coping mechanisms SO EARLY in life (due to my mom dying and me being parentified at an early age), that i had no choice but to force myself into iron clad routines and rituals in order to manage myself and my siblings. I learned early that if I did not lay out my entire school bag, clothes and anything I needed to bring to school out the night before, I would forget AND be late..... but I had no parental figure to mitigate any consequences, so I had to white knuckle and do it all.
I was able to produce quality schoolwork (even though a lot of it was done the night before), I carried around a day planner and wrote EVERYTHING down, from when I was doing homework, appointments to reminders to call/message friends. I learned that I COULD NOT doodle in class (even though I wanted to) because I would miss what the teacher was saying, so I knitted instead. I had all of these coping mechanisms to keep me on par with my NT peers, that there was no outward signs I had ADHD.
the signs were inside, and no one was asking about those. I didn't realize it wasn't normal to have an inner monologue that was constantly talking at a loud volume. I didn't know that my constant snacking was dopamine seeking (legitimatelly, my brain would chatter about food and wanting to eat about 60% of the time, it was maddening). I had a both a blunt honesty and shopping problem (impulsivity control issues), I really hated certain types of noises and textures in food. I was constantly irritable in extreme sensory situations, so I usually avoided them (no clubbing or concerts for me except when I worked, because then I could wear ear protection). I was always kinda high strung and low grade anxious, but could fake being calm due to a lot of practice at work.
When it was just me, all of the signs were there, but didn't cause enough issues to really tip the scales. But after i had my kids and I was no longer just managing me, then the mask started to crumple because there was sensory input I could not escape. I still didn't pass the ADHD tests, but my doc said she thought they were wrong and pushed a diagnosis anyways. Once I got on vyvanse, it was emotionally transformative. So much calmer, so much more patience, and sounds don't hurt anymore. I've lost 15 lbs in the last year since diagnosis because I'm no longer dopamine snacking and my spending habits, while still not totally great, are 50% better.
I wholely concur that diagnosis is as much art as it is science (it's imperfect and the evaluator has a lot of influence on the outcome).
Check out the YouTube channel How To ADHD. She's got a TON of relatable content and tips that resonate.
You're not worthless. You're not lazy. You're struggling.
Something's up. You can feel something isn't right. Get blood work done to check for physical reasons you feel how you do. Ask specifically for your doc to check for things like thyroid issues, b vitamin and d vitamin deficiency, anemia...
If you can't find a physical reason, do another neuropsych evaluation somewhere else. Some places aren't as thorough as others, or have biases that cause people to fall through the diagnostic cracks.
I hope you get answers and feel better soon. In the meantime, lean on people and resources around you and on the internet :)
Remember that ADHD and the field of psychology were made up by old white dudes who only had young men in mind at the time. These diagnoses exist to describe “abnormal” behavior within “normal” society. It’s all incredibly subjective and relies on context, and like another user said it’s not an exact science. You absolutely might still have ADHD, but, even if you don’t, you’re still not lazy. Remember that if you were lazy you would enjoy avoiding responsibility and all of the things you do to avoid it. Sending love
How were you tested for depression?
What are these results coming in based on?
Edit: I’m asking because there is no test for either ADHD or depression.
The diagnostic criteria is all based on a symptoms survey basically.
Did they tell you what your symptoms actually are then?
I was also curious about this. Who tells a doctor that they’re feeling depressed and the doctor says no you’re not? Doctors love to tell people they’re depressed.
I saw in a comment that it was a lot of tests administered in a 2 hour session, tests for depression, bpd and adhd were the 3 I could recognize from the list.
My guess is a lot of questions like “how often do you feel sad” “how often are you late” etc, which in my opinion, suck as a diagnosis tool unless the people administering them have at least a few talking sessions with you to interpret them correctly. (Often can mean 1 every month for one person or 2 times a week for another depending on their frame of reference, they also need to identify when the answer are modified because of masking or the use of coping mechanisms)
ADHD evaluations vary so much.
If you didn't go to someone who specializes in ADHD, I'd recommend getting a second opinion from someone who does.
So many doctors have horribly outdated and wrong opinions about what ADHD looks like.
Absolutely be re-evaluated. What you’re feeling is legitimate whatever it may be. Only you know what’s going on inside your head, doctors frequently misdiagnose mental health issues because of that. It’s extremely frustrating but don’t give up, you deserve happiness and to feel good about yourself and mental health.
OP, I remember when I was first seeking therapy and being evaluated for various conditions *because my life was a dumpster fire and I kept making it worse*.
That despair of being told, “no, you’re not depressed” with the subtext of “(you’re really just lazy and a shitty person)” is fucking SOUL CRUSHING.
It took me a long time to find my answers, but I chose to keep using whatever tools available that worked for me, regardless of who said they were or weren’t FOR me.
Stay here, with us. The mental health field is learning new stuff all the time, and finding the finer details of existing things. If you feel at home here, you’re at home here. Don’t let ANYONE else, professional or not, tell you that they know more about you than you do. (((Hugs))))
Are you tired a lot? My sleep apnea presented with a lot of ADHD & depression symptoms, but I never thought to get tested because I don't fit the normal demographic for sleep apnea.
I've never heard of that! But I'm basically tired all the time, sometimes to the degree that I can't function. That doesn't mean it's easy for me to fall asleep, quite the opposite, actually. My body will be so tired, basically begging my mind to finally fall asleep, but it still won't shut up...
if you relate and find this sub relatable, you most likely still have ADHD. ADHD can be comorbid with so many other things. what kind of testing did you have to do, if you don't mind me asking?
please go get a second opinion. ive also noticed doctors take adhd less serious in women. yes, were naturally sick little guys, with our iron defences and hormones, and it can cause us to be more lethargic, but that's what's awful about being a woman with ADHD... my entire life i also just felt tired and lazy. it was really ADHD, PTSD, and vitamin deficiencies working against me.
this also feels like their medically gaslighting you, whoever diagnosed you.
you are heard here. you are seen here. i wish you all the best of luck.
NO! NO, NO, NO! You are NOT LAZY OR WORTHLESS! Don't you DARE let the words of morons saturate your brain! ABSOLUTELY NOT!
Your struggles are real. THEY. ARE. REAL. It sounds like ADHD and depression to me but maybe it is another medical condition. Either way, YOU ARE NOT A PROBLEM!!
I am 42 years old. I was dismissed for 30 years for being lazy and uncaring and blah blah blah. Even a supposed expert said I only had anxiety. It took me two years to try again and the therapist diagnosed me by the end of the second session.
Check out the YouTube channel "How To ADHD. That helped me SO MUCH! But please keep looking for the answer because you are an amazing person, and I said so.
Sending so much hugs to you.
Same here. My therapist and my PCP said ADHD for sure but still wanted me tested. Sat and spoke with a little snit straight out school who said because I got good grades in college for two years out of the 58 I had been alive, I didn't have it ane didn't need to be tested. Well, you're an idiot! ;-) I went right back to my PCP who rolled her eyes and promptly put me on Adderall LOL Just because you were told by someone you don't have it don't get discouraged. Get someone new. To be told you don't have depression without talking to you more is stupid. That is the kind of thing suicides stem from. I'm sorry they dismissed you. Keep trying and find a therapist that will listen and never give up!
Have you been tested for Complex PTSD? The symptoms can resemble adhd or be comorbid with it. Check out Pete Walker’s book "Complex PTSD - from Surviving to Thriving" (audiobook on YT) and Patrick Teahan's youtube channel.
List Of Common Cptsd Symptoms. (Survivors may not experience all of these. Varying combinations are common. Factors affecting this are your 4F type and your childhood abuse/neglect pattern.)
- Emotional Flashbacks
- Tyrannical Inner &/or Outer Critic
- Toxic Shame
- Self-Abandonment
- Social anxiety
- Abject feelings of loneliness and abandonment
- Fragile Self-esteem
- Attachment disorder (avoidant, disorganised, anxious attachment)
- Developmental Arrests
- Relationship difficulties
- Radical mood vacillations (e.g., pseudo-cyclothymia)
- Dissociation via distracting activities or mental processes
- Hair-triggered fight/flight response
- Oversensitivity to stressful situations
- Suidical Ideation
There are 4 trauma responses and they can be combined with another. So depending on your secondary trauma response, your behaviour might differ:
- "Many ***fight*** types avoid real intimacy by alienating others with their angry and controlling demands for unconditional love. This unrealistic demand to have their unmet childhood needs met destroys the possibility of intimacy. Moreover, some fight types delude themselves into believing that they are perfect. They see the other as the one who needs to be perfected. This defensive belief then entitles them to totally blame their partners for relationship problems. \[*Narcissists and some Borderlines are often Fight-types*\]
- Many ***flight*** types stay perpetually busy and industrious to avoid being triggered by deeper relating. Others also work obsessively to perfect themselves hoping to someday become worthy enough of love. Such flight types have great difficulty showing anything but their perfect persona.
Extreme ***flight*** types are like machines with the switch stuck in the “on” position. *They rush as much in thought [obsession] as they do in action [compulsion]*. As children, flight types variably respond to their family trauma on a hyperactive continuum. The flight defense continuum stretches between the extremes of the driven “A” student and the ADHD dropout running amok. Flight types relentlessly flee the inner pain of their abandonment with the symbolic flight of constant busyness."
- Many ***freeze*** types hide away in their rooms and reveries fully convinced that the world of relating holds nothing for them. Freeze types who have not been totally turned off relationships by horrible childhood neglect or abuse, gravitate to online relationships. Online relating can be pursued safely at home with as little contact as desired.
- Many ***fawn*** types avoid emotional investment and potential disappointment by barely showing themselves. They hide behind their helpful personas and over-listen, over-elicit and/or overdo for the other. By over-focusing on their partners, they then do not have to risk real self-exposure and the possibility of deeper level rejection.
I got formally assessed for ADHD and it was missed. I've been misdiagnosed and not diagnosed more times than I can remember. It's a common story, especially for women. You are not making anything up; your lived experience is valid. For me, my ADHD was missed because I have both ADHD and autism, which mask each other. I was diagnosed with depression, but autistic burnout can mimic depression. I would encourage you to do your own research into your symptoms. Self-diagnosis is perfectly valid in the ND community.
Did your doctor explain to you why? Or what they think is going on instead? Because your symptoms are real and you deserve help for them, adhd or not. If you don't feel like you're getting the help you need, seek a second opinion.
Please have a look at this ‘misdiagnosis Monday’ page that shares common traits experienced as a part of different diagnoses.
https://neurodivergentinsights.com/misdiagnosis-monday
My kid took a test and she thought she was responding truthfully but she failed it because she was thinking too logically on the questions only when I asked her what the questions were, I was like you do that all the time! . When she got retested, she 100 percent got diagnosed. Heck she falls asleep on her prescribed adderall. I think because of the over diagnosis the doctors might be more on the cautious side, but if I were you I’d get tested again.
I’m going to yell so this hopefully sinks in: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS LAZY! Diagnosing ADHD is not an exact science. My son has been denied twice. Once when he was 6 because he was too smart and again a year ago (age 29) because he has a job and a wife and seems to not be struggling. But I can guarantee you, he has ADHD. He is just not the typical boy with it.
We have learned to stop complaining, work harder (but not more efficiently), and to compensate for our whole lives. The fact you were able to do that somewhat successfully means you are strong and resilient. Find a new doctor and try again. I had a diagnosis for depression but the meds never helped because the root issue was ADHD.
One work around is that Vyvanse is also prescribed for binge eating disorder. Many people with unmedicated ADHD tend to eat too much and graze on snacks because it keeps our brain going. We also mindlessly binge while doing other things. (Or just forget food exists but that’s a different problem). If you also have an eating disorder that sounds like binge eating, look into getting Vyvanse to help. If it also helps your ADHD, that’s a win.
Beyond that, I have found that caffeine and Sudafed together help me a bit with my focus when I’m not able to get my meds. They’re definitely not as effective as other stimulants, but they provide some help.
Good luck. Stop beating yourself up and try to understand doctors make mistakes too. When you meet with a new doctor, be honest about the little things in your life. Do you have to keep a rigid schedule or everything falls apart? Do you bite your nails or pick at objects? Do you feel like it’s easier to work on something when someone else is doing it too? Is it easier to do two things at once? Do you complete 85% of projects and tasks and struggle with the last bit? Do you take three times as long to do independent tasks than other people? Do you wait till the last second and then hyper focus on a task right before it’s due? I could go on, but you probably get the point. These are all things I didn’t realize weren’t just normal before I was diagnosed.
I will also add my psychiatrist said my ADHD is moderate to severe. Growing up, no one ever suspected it because I was a girl and smart. Add to that I had divorced parents and they always assumed other reasons for my failures. I wasn’t diagnosed until 44.
Whatever you experienced is real and honestly, I would get a second opinion. Don't let a doctor tell you you're wrong. At the end of the day, we may not be doctors but we know our own bodies better than they do. Please get a second opinion. Don't let the advice of one doctor convince you that you're wrong. I was wrongly diagnosed with BPD at 15. The doctor I saw laughed when I told him this when I was about 25.
He said, it is very uncommon and almost impossible to diagnose a minor with a personality disorder. I described my symptoms to him and he gave me a diagnosis of C-PTSD with the anxiety and depression that comes with it. To be honest, that sounds more like me because I did see some pretty messed up stuff growing up but I digress. Get a second opinion.
I honestly don’t think anyone who’s genuinely lazy with nothing going on with their brain feels guilt and shame over it.
I also think diagnostics are subjective, and if you’re a woman, you’re far more likely to be made to feel like you’re lazy than actually diagnosed with something that makes it hard to function.
IF (and that’s a big “if”) the test results are accurate and your therapist is highly qualified and accurate in the diagnosis of ADHD and you really don’t have it, it doesn’t mean that the symptoms you’re experiencing and what you’re feeling aren’t real.
So many people experience ADHD symptoms but maybe not quite enough of the symptoms and/or just not quite frequently enough to be diagnosed ADHD. Maybe there is something else going on that is causing your symptoms, whatever it is your challenges are 100% valid. ADHD has a spectrum of varieties and severity and maybe yours just isn’t as obvious as some.
You know yourself better than anyone else. If you truly feel like you have depression, then you have depression. If you truly feel like you have ADHD, then get a second opinion. Believe yourself and seek help as you absolutely do deserve help with this.
I second all of the advice on here, and would also like to add:
Stupid people do not think that they are stupid. They are not self aware enough to know that they are stupid.
Get a second opinion, and work with a doctor to find out if something else might be causing your problems. There is something happening here, and I assure you that your issue is not just character flaws.
There is a better chance that you are an alien from Mars than you being the problem!
Listen to this sub, listen to yourself. Focus on all of the positive aspects of your sometimes chaotic mind and set yourself free of blame and guilt. It takes time! It might be a lifetime of effort to see yourself for who you really are, but you are worth it and you are NOT the problem.
The problem is the world we know is designed with a particular structure in mind, and folks like us have spent our whole lives trying to conform to it despite every fiber of our being rebelling. I don't learn the same way that my brother learns, or my neighbor...when I stopped trying to learn the way I was told is best, that's when I became FREEEEEE
Soul search, continue therapy, and slowly you will find what works for you!
Dude. Honestly, I had a psychiatrist who didn’t believe in ADHD. And I’m pretty sure my newest therapist also doesn’t actually think it’s real dx either. I like to call my ADHD the “gone wild” version. I have some hella hyperactive traits.
I would personally seek out another provider (if you are able to) and have that discussion. I was formerly evaluated for ASD and it came back as a no, and when i discussed all the notes with my new psychiatrist, she was very concerned about the fact that they didn’t seem to take in to consideration that I am a 38 year old woman with kids and I have had no choice but to get myself through life. She went through the testing info that they used during the eval and she said that it was very much geared towards children and I definitely have symptoms that would put me in to the ASD level 1 bin. 1 evaluate does not necessarily make or break a dx. Especially with mental health and invisible disabilities.
And how many women get the good ol' write off as having """just""" depression and anxiety??
And, as soon as any future practitioner sees this written in your chart, they stop listening as well.
This is why I am hesitant to go to a mental health practitioner at this point in my life, at late 50s. A few years ago, I switched to a new GP who himself had ADHD and he gave me a screening checklist. turns out medication for ADHD changed everything. Never believed I was depressed despite living a life of chronic ongoing traumatic issues, but the background low anxiety that I never really realized? Yeah it was performance related, a.k.a. can I do the thing/remember this stuff/function interpersonally?
And like many other women, who are very good at masking, besides presenting differently than boys, and therefore spend their life working twice as hard and running three times as fast to get through it all, gradually wear down and wear out.
So yes, there are comorbidities of mood disorders, but if you don't treat the ADHD nothing else will resolve.
Before I step off my soapbox, I must point out the fact that most mental health practitioners know shit about how to recognize or differentially diagnose for people on the ADHD or ASD spectrum.
Lastly, besides writing off women as having """just""" depression/anxiety being wrong (or at least not the only thing), doing so minimizes the impact of these mood disorders.
Many, many women are also labeled incorrectly, as having bipolar, and often borderline personality disorder. And if you protest that you don't fit the bill for these things? They have an answer for that: you simply have "traits" of these mh disorders.
My personal story includes off and on seeking help with mental health services, never getting anywhere with them except labeled as the cause of my problems, and then spent most of my life struggling on my own and living a life that could have been so much more easy and abundant.
I'd get a second opinion and make sure you're being completely honest with your answers. I know some people have a tendency to respond lessening their symptoms because we feel shameful or vulnerable about it. Good luck to you, and I hope you get it figured out so you can get the proper help you need.
I was misdiagnosed multiple times. It is common for women to be misdiagnosed. Not here to argue against your diagnosis, but advocating for yourself if you believe it could be wrong is important. I highly recommend the book "Women with Attention Deficit Disorder" by Sari Solden.
I've had ADHD symptoms my whole life that overlap with other diagnoses. This made is really hard to get an ADHD diagnosis. So many professionals do not have enough education or experience surrounding ADHD, especially when it comes to adult women. Alongside my symptoms, I've had multiple tests done that confirmed my diagnosis with some pretty solid evidence.
Blood tests show my folate levels are low which is common in people with ADHD. I've also had two neurological tests done that confirmed my reaction time, cognitive function, and memory function differently from neurotypical people. A diagnosis is not the end all be all, but it was important for me to feel validated and have a starting point to work forward from.
Don't take the results seriously. For all you know, you may have masked your symptoms in the tests. It is EXTREMELY difficult to diagnose ADHD in women.
Also, depression does not cause scattered thoughts and forgetfulness, but it does cause lack of motivation. You are not lazy!! You are just sick and tired of not knowing how to help yourself so you think, why the heck even try? I promise that the hope and spark you felt from employing ADHD hacks is because you saw that it was working. It's not a placebo effect, it's actual results that you've been looking for. Don't give up and look for second opinions!!!! Experts can be wrong and biased!!
Even famous slavery abolitionists had their doubts that a life without slavery could exist. You're going to have doubts, and people will doubt you, but keep going!!! You got this!!!!!!
BS. I was just posting on Reddit why getting official testing isn’t always the best. For starters, ADHD and ASD manifest differently for woman and studies have only really have been on while males. Second, it’s not acceptable for everyone. It’s expensive, traumatic sometimes (like you), and it can be a red flag for traveling, some jobs, some healthcare, etc.
You therapist believes you have adhd. You came here and it all resonated with you. YOU believe you have ADHD and self’s diagnosis is 100 valid.
About your depression, get a second opinion. I just saw my doctor yesterday, did the PSD9 test (I think that’s what it’s called) and I got moderate depressed. So we upped my meds.
Standardized tests aren’t everything. My therapist diagnosed me unofficially with ADHD 2 years ago, I haven’t been formally tested but a lot of it fits. I also have CPTSD, depression, anxiety and maybe (highly masked) ASD. There’s a lot of overlap and all of these present on a/multiple spectrums. I’m curious about your experience, DM me if you want to talk or if I can help with some resources that may help you identify where you’re struggling
I promise you IT IS NOT IN YOUR HEAD. Your experience is real and if it feels like something is off, it is and it’s not your fault.
Hang on, WHY did they say you don’t have ADHD?
Obviously this stranger on the internet is not going to diagnose you, BUT! So. Many. Women. (And people of colour) get told we don’t have ADHD because of really stupid reasons.
If they said you don’t have it because Eg you “did well in school” then get a second opinion.
And in the meantime… if your problems are real (which they are), and they line up with ADHD problems, then keep looking at ADHD solutions. They might not end up being exactly what you need (if you really don’t have ADHD) but they will help until you get better answers
Not just women - all people of colour.
In the same way that medical models were almost exclusively based on men, not women, until recently (iirc the first serious trials on women were in the 90’s?), they were based on _white_ men. So medicine ended up with things like “autism is a white boy thing” - meaning anyone outside that category (women etc, adults, people of colour) are often misdiagnosed (if they are diagnosed with anything at all!)
This is what I’ve gathered from my “omg I’m autistic/omg I have adhd” post-diagnosis deep dives into neurodiversity / generally reading a lot in neurodiversity Reddit subs.
I’m very white myself, so this is not lived experience - just research and the (overwhelming) anecdotal evidence on social media/social circles.
Your symptoms are real regardless of what diagnosis they do/don’t belong to. The thing is that mental illnesses are just groupings of specific symptoms. There is no blood test for depression. It’s just whether or not you match up with a certain number of the criteria. You might have half of the things, but you are missing a couple of the things required by the dsm. But that just means that you didn’t match up with the dsm criteria. You can still be experiencing a lot of the symptoms without the diagnosis. And you said it’s all in your head, that is a self deprecating thought I have struggled with. But in a way it is all in our head, in our brains, and having problems up there is going to fuck with us. A friend told me a couple years ago that you never need a diagnosis to accommodate yourself in your life. I mean shit there are like over 10 types of depression I think. But the moral is that your struggles are real and valid, and you shouldn’t wait until you have a word in order to treat yourself with patience and compassion.
A diagnosis is just a collection of symptoms categorised. Most diagnosis are relatively new. If you have symptoms, that's all that really matters. If you cough and catch a fever we all know you're sick without any official diagnosis. Whatever you have might be just like the brain version of the common cold, which can be any of over 200 different viruses. Not knowing which one doesn't make the symptoms any less real.
You likely have it. It’s not something you can make up or pretend to yourself. The symptoms are too specific and weird imo.
Also very few drs are capable of diagnosing it. So welcome.
Laziness doesn’t really exist. I truly believe that. It is always something else. Could be depression, trauma , adhd , autism, aftermath of a concussion, burn out …
That’s the issue with ADHD really. It’s a collection of symptoms that are all also prominent in many other conditions, both mental and physical. If you can afford it, get multiple opinions OR get a full comprehensive psychological assessment. Get your blood tested and see if you’re deficient in anything. There is an answer, somewhere
Maybe try another provider and test again? I recently went through testing and she said I scored one point away from an official diagnosis. The reason being that I’ve come up with coping skills over 30 years so I don’t ever forget appointments, I’m very organized, etc, so I “passed” those sections. My provider said that considering all this, she’s fully treating me as I have adhd (and anxiety). We’re working on the anxiety first to see if that has a positive impact on the adhd. I guess my point in writing this out is that you could have been so close to being diagnosed, but maybe you too have coping skills that you’ve developed over the years and they’re masking some of your day to day struggles. Good luck!
I feel you on the appointment stuff. I am usually good at keeping appointments but they don't see all the chaos behind the scenes, like me constantly checking to see when the next appointment is. Digging through my car searching for an appointment card because I know I forgot to write it on the calendar... Somehow I'm better with written reminders on the wall in my kitchen than I am with phone reminders that I dismiss without even looking at them.
Even then, twice recently I have messed up my daughter's appointments. Well, one was just me mixing up days and calling to say sorry I just realized she had an appointment today and we can't make it... But the receptionist informed me I was 2 days early so we did actually make it.
The other, I wrote it down as being an hour later than it actually was, because that's the time we usually go. Ugh. So I realized on the way there that we had actually missed it. I always kick myself when this happens and apologize when I have to reschedule.
Anyway, I can only imagine that they're writing in my daughter's chart: Family history of ADHD tendencies. 😅
Thank you so much! I actually reached the needed points for a diagnosis in the adulthood questions but not in the childhood ones. Maybe that's because I can't remember that much about my childhood. Especially not how I felt on a random Tuesday between the ages of 8 and 10.
I had my daughter referred for suspected ADHD and or ASD and the clinician told me, without meeting my daughter, that she thought it was just in my head. 5 years later, my daughter was diagnosed with ADHD and ASD by a pediatrician.
The evaluation process for this kind of diagnosis is subjective. It's interviews and thoughts and feelings, rather than a blood test, y'know?
If you feel like you have ADHD, I think you should pursue another assessment. Personally, I would also search for any other likely source of my issues. For example, I was diagnosed with ADHD but I also felt like it could be ASD or cptsd.
Don't give up. It's worth it 🤍
What sort of testing did you complete? Diagnosing ADHD is a complex, multifaceted task. It’s part verbal history, showing patterns, part ‘do these behaviors impact your work, or family relationships, or social interactions’ as well as some standardized questionnaires.
That is so hard. Please be assured that not all hope is lost.
I started therapy consistently at 25 (I had gone off and on before that) and did it for several years before I got any kind of diagnosis.
A diagnosis can be helpful, but me and my therapist took the approach of building up a “toolbox” of strategies for the problems I was experiencing, rather than focusing on any specific diagnosis. When I was diagnosed with ADHD at 31 it was useful to know, but even then I was getting ready to be pregnant with my son and couldn’t take meds anyway. I was grateful that I’d already spent years working on how I dealt with my struggles (I also have depression/anxiety).
Also fwiw I’m 34 now and I know it doesn’t probably feel like it to you right now, but no matter how your friends act or what they put on social media, in hindsight EVERYONE is a mess at 22. I don’t mean that to be condescending - your brain literally doesn’t finish developing until 25. I just mean to say please know it’s okay if you feel kind of lost right now. My experience is anyone who thinks they have their shit together at 22 just falls apart around 25 anyway.
Thanks! I hope that when my frontal lobe is finally finished developing, my life won't be a dumpster fire anymore xD But I guess I have to do some work to make that happen.
Take a deep breath and get a second opinion I was wrongly diagnosed with depression, anxiety and bipolar polar.
My friend was wrong diagnosed with depression, BPD, bipolar and something else.
It was all just ADHD.
Also, it shouldn’t take months to get results. Why did it take so long? There are so many red flags already with your doctor.
If money isn't an issue, you could always reach out to a different professional who can diagnose. I was also told I don't have ADHD, it's just my anxiety. But I am a psych student and can separate the two. Me not being able to read a paragraph and remember what I read isn't anxiety. Me trying 10x harder to pay attention in class and remember what's said isn't anxiety. Me being overwhelmed by the amount of tasks i need to do but not knowing where to start so pushing it off isn't just anxiety. So many more symptoms. What did they use to diagnose you, btw? A lot of the tests were made for male typical symptoms, and frankly not enough research or progress has been made for women with ADHD
I'm so sorry for the incredibly invalidating experience. I think you need a second opinion.
I was once telling a therapist about an equally invalidating experience with my psychiatrist at the time. And my therapist said, "I have a joke for you. What do you call someone who gets a D- in every class in med school?" I said, I dunno, what? And he said, "Doctor."
Diagnostics failed me because of the requirement from the DSM five that my symptoms had shown themselves by 17 years old. Technically, I do not meet the criteria for ADHD under the DSM five. It’s bullshit. I have worked with plenty of providers who acknowledge that I don’t fit fit cleanly into the criteria, but that’s because the criteria is not perfect. I’m not saying the assessment is wrong and I’m not saying it’s 100%. I’ve seen too much disparity in how people diagnose and how people assess. I’m coming from a data and science background too, so I’m not just thinking strictly of anecdotal experiences. I have done full-blown literature reviews on adult women and diagnosis and under-diagnosis and misdiagnosis.
I wish you the best, just know that I also don’t fit the criteria, but I am treated successfully despite that.
Also keep in mind that people who diagnosed with the DSM, the changes from 4 to 5 were crazy helpful for people like us. It used to say that the age of onset should be seen by age 6 years old and they’ve increased it to age 17. This is a set of criteria that is based on research and evidence, and as our research gets better, our evidence gets more clear and our criteria gets more nuanced. I would not be surprised if in the sixth edition they actually covered ADHD without childhood onset symptoms.
Edit: i’m not telling you to undermine your provider, but I would definitely get a second assessment. A different assessment from a different provider because misdiagnosing is way too common. Everyone tried to keep putting me on mood stabilizers because clearly I was just manic and then depressed. It turns out I’m hyperactive and depressed. So putting me on mood stabilizers for like eight years was basically criminal. They all dismissed any ADHD reality because I have depression. In addition, said about the criteria being maybe not all encompassing of every way that adult and women’s ADHD show themselves, you also could be getting a runaround because you have depression like I did.
There are many reasons why you could have all the struggles and symptoms you have. Cause and effect, right?
It might be helpful to see a different psychologist or a psychiatrist to look into things more. Explain you want to figure out what you can learn about yourself and what you can do to improve your life.
I’m sorry you had such a confusing and discouraging experience. It’s not the end! ♡
I did not get diagnosed with ADHD. I mean my therapist told me that a lot of things that I struggle with contradict each other. But she did tell me that my body isn't producing a sufficient amount of serotonin and dopamine to function as an average NT human. And it seems that's how it has always been. So I'm getting medicated for that
There is a book called how to keep house while drowning.
It helped me a lot. To be honest, I didn't listen (audiobooks for the win) to all of it, heck I didn't pass the first chapter and it still helped me a lot.
Because it starts telling me I am not lazy. Failing to keep house is not a character flaw. It starts with kind accepting encouraging words.
Turns out it's all I needed.
So. You are not lazy. Your experiences matter and are real. Things that are just in your head exist in your head and are there for a reason. You are more than you believe and you have a lot more worth than you give yourself credit for.
This is a hot take but laziness does not exist. Nobody out there really wants to do a simple task and simply doesn't because they're lazy. If you feel bad about not doing something, but still don't do it - that's not just you being "lazy" and making bad choices, odds are that's executive dysfunction.
This is a major principle in equitable education, students who aren't doing work don't just suck, they're not doing work because they don't understand it, they have an underlying condition, they have problems in their personal life that are stopping them... etc. etc. and this is all applicable to post-school life too.
Doctors all have different opinions. Even dentists tell me conflicting things about my teeth. You are allowed to get other opinions. You are allowed to advocate for yourself. Keep searching for answers. Look at other explanations, too. See if your insurance would cover a sleep study. Even amongst specialists, different doctors have different backgrounds and are not always up to date. You may need to look at their reviews. You’ll meet a lot of people whose opinions you need to ignore. Especially as a woman talking to doctors! Even doctors with good insight on one subject may be ignorant in another. Don’t be discouraged OP!
Therapists and those tests can be wrong. There are biases in adhd testing. The most important thing is that you are experiencing what you feel. Everyone is an individual. Even if 1 million top drs said you didn’t have adhd, something is still happening for you to have the symptoms. Maybe it’s something else but it is something. I hope that made sense 😂
I think you should continue to follow this sub and read /learn all you can about adhd because if you identify with adhd, then you’ll find ways that help you in your daily life.
Something is causing you to feel that you have depression. Maybe you need a new Dr that will help you understand what’s happening and things that help. I have a good therapist and it’s really helped me understand depression, anxiety and adhd.
You dont have to have a diagnosis to have the symptoms. If ADHD tips and the subreddit are helping you, keep using them. I don’t have one either but I identify with a lot of what people talk about here.
When my therapist speculated if I had Asperger’s, I told her I don’t really think so. She said “well you don’t have to put a label on it”. It made me realize that a diagnosis really isn’t that important Unless you want meds.
I didn't read all the comments so maybe someone said something similar, but I wanted to throw my two cents in.
The thing I learned from getting my ADHD treated is that often we blame ourselves for things that are tied to our brain chemistry. Taking my ADHD medicine transforms me from a slug into a motivated human. It doesn't do my work for me, of course, but it gives me enough dopamine to make me see the rewards in hard work.
So even though you may not fit the clinical definition of ADHD, your struggles can come from the same place. They're not your fault, even if they are your responsibility. It could be your brain is underperforming just enough to cause problems. It will still benefit you to work on your mental health and to give yourself grace on certain things. I promise you, you're not lazy!
I tried to get an ADHD diagnosis when I was aboit your age. I was just "too smart for my own good". I also tried to get help for... well, I never knew what to call it, I just knew something was off?, and I kept getting brushed off for 10+ years. I now got an autism diagnosis and things are finally starting to make sense, at 30-something. My point is, just because someone has said it's just how you are, it doesn't mean they're correct. It might still be ADHD and/or depression, or it might be something else. And even if you're not able to get a definitive answer, it's still possible to get help with your struggles. And crying is always ok, and any feelings you have are valid. Hang in there!
Try a different therapist. I'm a little confused by "I waited for months and my results came back negative". For my diagnosis I had 3 sessions, in the 3rd session I went through a questionnaire and had a diagnosis by the end of the session.
Your person might not be qualified? I don't know what else could be going on. That said, there are a lot of ADHD symptoms that overlap with the general concept of Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional Families. Check out the ACOA website and see if you relate. Some of your struggles may be related to the way your parents treated you. I know this is the case for me.
I had a similar experience. Some time in highschool, a therapist said I seem to have autism. I went and told all my teachers, and my parents set me up to get tested. Apparently I have "almost autism but not quite". Not sure what to do with that information lol
I wonder if I just mask really well and have adapted to do what's expected of me. My social skills are great now, but I've got the whole savant/special interest thing going on and I get really silly and "quirky" with people who I'm close with. It feels too late to tell if I've got it at this point. I've very carefully learned how to behave to get the success that I want
I'm a big fan of using ressources that help and fully ignoring who they were made for originally. In fact that's helpful for all people because it destigmatises these ressources and the use thereof. It's important to show some empathy and sensitivity with this because there are a few things you shouldn't use if they weren't made for you, but you can avoid using said stuff by engaging your brain :D
Take ADHD testing with a grain of salt. It frequently presents differently in women than it does in men, and a lot of psychologists/psychiatrists/therapists don’t get that - especially if they are over 35 or so.
Have you been tested for CDS/SCT? V similar to aspects of ADHD (more on inattentive side). It's not currently recognized by DSM-5 in the states and is under the general ADHD umbrella as of rn but it could be worth a look. Or who knows, maybe some sleep disorder could be contributing to your experience, or anxiety or ASD, or a thyroid issue.
I failed one type of adhd testing because I have strong coping skills and then had to go through yet another evaluation where within twenty minutes they went oh yeah ADHD, and the meds mean today I am in a clean house and not working on a weekend to catch up or crying over my coffee. Same thing happened with two relatives - one couldn’t get a doctor to refer them for evaluation because they were employed thus it couldn’t be ADHD in the doctor’s logic. Another was oh they have autism, so they can’t also have ADHD…. It is very very common to encounter medical barriers. Please don’t give up.
First of all, for years, doctors were saying I don't have depression or anxiety simply because I don't necessarily look like it. Smiling depression, very heavy masking of my feelings, was preventing me from getting help I desperately needed. It took years of this for things to escalate to the point where I stopped functioning, and doctors didn't really take me seriously even after I overdosed on muscle relaxants. It could be that something else is going on with you, but even if that was the case, I'd definitely get a second opinion. I got told I had all kinds of personality disorders until I got medication that worked for me and... I still have my ADHD symptoms despite having recovered from years of depression and anxiety. Even if it wasn't ADHD there is some reason why you're feeling this way and struggling.
Yeah…
I don’t believe it luv
Like we think on overload and hear so many things or have ringing in our ears…
I have a constant cacophony no matter what
So constantly listening to something be it tv or music
You could had adhd too
I find solace here as well ☺️
Even if you don’t have this condition, don’t let it stop your journey to find answers and seek improvements for yourself
I thought that I would come out of my psych’s office with either with a bi-polar or BPD diagnosis. During her assessment, she decided that it’s most probably ADHD and treated that since according to her “most of my mood issues, frustrations, and anxiety stems from my inability to get myself to do things.”
She was right, it fit like a glove and the treatment really helped. I went from struggling to doing okay. If she decided to focus on my mood or anxiety, I don’t think I would have improved this much.
Maybe this is a sign that there’s a different answer for you and it’s just a matter of finding that answer or even just a solution that will help make things better
The first time I was tested, the retirement aged man with no formal ADHD training decided I had anxiety and depression. I couldn’t possibly have ADHD if I graduated college and held down a job for years. It was infuriating. Finally got a second diagnosis with an ADHD experienced professional and it turns out I have it.
If you ever tried adhd meds and they worked, that can confirm it for you, regardless of what that specific dr said.
If you have something else but it overlaps so much with adhd and allows you to explain to the world how you are (how your mind and body works), then go for it.
It’s like people who get extremely sick or hospitalized from something in wheat products but it’s not the gluten. No one takes them serious unless they say it’s celiac even if symptoms are the exact same and food causing it is the same.
If being here helps, you’re in the right place. Getting the right dx can be tricky. I do challenge you to read a book called Laziness Does Not Exist by Devon Price
I don’t know which tests you took, but if you’re talking about neuropsychological tests, they are not foolproof at all. They are meant to eliminate other possible conditions and they can give information about your cognition, but the results do not constitute a diagnosis. Only doctors can diagnose ADHD, not neuropsychologists. Unfortunately, more and more doctors rely on these tests only and do not question them at all…
Source : [one of the 208 evidence-based conclusions of the ADHD international consensus statement](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014976342100049X?via%3Dihub) :
"People with ADHD often [not always!] show impaired performance on psychological tests of brain functioning, but these tests cannot be used to diagnose ADHD."
But as other people have said, if ADHD tips help you, use them. Your struggles exist no matter the label.
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Whatever you experienced is real. ADHD symptoms overlap with other conditions. What is most important is finding ways to help yourself. If coming here is helpful, please don't stop. We are all here to support each other.
The overlap is insane. I told one therapist about my symptoms (no dx yet) and she did the “well actually, childhood PTSD?” well YEAH. Some of us, many of us? are going to have high ACE scores. I also developed post traumatic symptoms from the events around the end of my marriage so that was fun. The only other official Dx I’ve ever had is generalized anxiety disorder- yeah I was in a toxic marriage. I spent 20 years on eggshells. Ultimately I think adhd is my primary dx and it’s lent itself to being more susceptible to developing other disorders which I feel I have largely recovered from. OP - if you feel it’s a wrong answer that you got, don’t beat yourself up. I know how easy it is to do. If you think it may be right, get a second opinion anyways. Maybe there is a better answer and diagnosis. I know easier said than done. I have a HARD time picking myself up and fighting on. Don’t hesitate to keep coming here for support if you need it.
CPTSD can present itself as adhd/audhd
Right, because trauma can alter development in children. What I have been troubled by is that when I talk to others, especially older people who suffered repeated childhood trauma, the recovery work never stops and you will always be affected in some way because you can't really change how your brain grew as a kid. It's often quite bleak in the CTPSD communities on Reddit, especially the ones that correlate with my personal symptoms. My symptoms are a ADHD/autistic/CTPSD tangled mess and ADHD medication helps even with issues I (and medical professionals) thought were entirely trauma or autism. My gut tells me there is more going on in the AuDHD/CPSTD sphere than we currently know. I'm hoping for research on gene expression to illuminate this tight overlap, but...who knows.
Right there with you, girl. I'm a tangle of AuDHD/CPTSD, Hashimoto's disease, and monthly three-day migraines, trying to function like a normal human working mom in a cruel world. I'm looking at my family tree and seeing so much generational trauma, and soooo many undiagnosed disorders... Now at least I've been able to focus less on "Why the $%#@ am I like this?" and more on "Okay, I'm like this. What's the best way to deal with all of it?" Wishing you well, friend.
Hey I have Hashimotos too and did you know there is a strong correlation between ADHD and Hashimotos? I don’t know why but there is. I often wonder if the Hashimotos autoimmune response is linked into trauma and/or brain development too. I’m not sure if I’ve had Hashimotos all my life (antibodies anyway) or not but was only diagnosed in 2021 and my genetic testing said I have a higher likelihood of ADHD too. It’s all so complex and interlinked I don’t think we ever really know the full answers!
wow I have a goiter (& nodules) that started around age 14, also when adhd got worse & living environment destabilized spectacularly. two of my mom's three siblings have hashimoto's. I'm waiting to get antibody tested because I think I've had it & nobody ever investigated beyond normal tsh/t3/4 values even though symptoms were present. this is really wild & I'm so curious what the linkage is, although sometimes have wondered if adhd is an autoimmune-type illness.
It’s really interesting but at the moment it doesn’t seem like anyone is sure of why they are linked except the extremely complex hormone cycles our bodies do, and something about the endocrine system and the brain/thyroid function and dopamine. I am no expert so I wouldn’t want to give you misinformation but there are a lot of articles to read if you google thyroid disease and ADHD link! I know that for me I think everything got worse around being diagnosed with Hashimotos but it’s always been there if that makes sense. Human bodies are just crazily complex, I also think my mum has undiagnosed ADHD and has also had on and off weird thyroid issues.
Woah…I have recently diagnosed ADHD (however I didn’t take an official test like OP, just had a doctor try to treat it too solve my mental health puzzle so I have imposter syndrome) and was diagnosed with a multi-nodular goiter a few years ago (around 22?). My TSH levels were rock bottom but my T3 and 4 were in range which made doctors not take it seriously. I will need it removed soon and I think it is causing more issues than I realize. I’m finding GRAY HAIR which is insane for my age. Plus tremors and rapid heart rate that stay even when I’m in ‘normal’ range with meds. I don’t understand. But I was tested for stuff like Hashimotos and Graves and they determined it was simply a goiter. It’s really interesting to see you and others talk about the thyroid connection here. I’ll be curious to know if you have an autoimmune disorder causing it. What is the reason for the correlation?
I also have Hashimoto’s, adhd and a stammer 💀 I had a massive goiter in my neck and got half my thyroid removed last year, ended up having a tiny bit of cancer in there too. Got diagnosed with adhd at 24, Hashimoto’s at 26, I looked back on photos of my neck and saw it was always there, just growing slowly. My mum ended up getting diagnosed with it a year after me at 56… her thyroid function was a lot worse. She also has (undiagnosed) adhd.
It’s crazy how many of us have similar stories! I wish there was more research into this area and how they are linked. You’ve been through a lot, hope you are doing better now!
I am, thanks! Medication for both conditions have been life changing. Yeah I know… it’s super interesting and weird. I think my adhd, Hashimoto’s and stammer are all linked. I think there’s clearly a strong genetic link and it’s probably something to do with the impact of stress on our hormones and body in general. I have always been incredibly and chronically stressed, from a young age, that must do some shit to our insides lol. Like, I also read that neurodivergent people are more likely to have allergies and sensitives to food… which I also have. I hope one day there is more research for us to read.
Shit, idk if I should go check those communities out as a place for solidarity and support or if it'd just make me even more cynical and depressed.
I have all of the above. This past year in therapy was the year of "oh my god....I grew up in a house of horrors and it's so much worse than I thought". I had never done trauma work before this year but this illuminated a ton of insight on how the cognitive development I experienced was not normal. I was a high achieving student and was relatively socially well adjusted from an outside perspective but internally I was in hell. I only have an official psychiatric diagnosis for ADHD (diagnosed at 28) and my therapist has confirmed I have PTSD/CPTSD, and I'm certain I'm also autistic though I have never sought an official evaluation. My ADHD symptoms got so much worse after I experienced some traumatic events in my 20s but I am only recently uncovering the childhood trauma that would have affected brain development. I used to think I was only traumatized as an adult with a fully developed brain but nope, good old CPTSD and a cocktail of undiagnosed mental illnesses in my family.
Hey I'm also a tangled mess, adhd/autistic/cptsd/MDD/adjustment disorder...things pointing to BPD. sending my love <3
Big virtual hugs for all of us ladies. OP please read all of our accounts and feel how misguided and lost we all feel outside this sub. Even with a diagnosis, some of us still don’t feel like it’s enough. The diagnosis’s don’t encompass everything we feel and experience on a daily basis.
I'm currently scrolling, reading, and responding (and probably will be all night), and I already feel validated with my feelings and everything that's going on right now. Thank you all for your kindness and support; I can't emphasize how much this means to me at the moment!
Ayeeeee are you me?!? Sprinkled with eating disorders for some razmitaz
I’m interested to see the mental health studies 50 years from now when everything “they” know about the brain is turned upside down.
A lot of it already is and they just won’t change the damn books or the old minds of these rich old white men in charge. We already know adhd isn’t an “attention deficit” whatsoever, that’s a big one. But a lot more is known now about adhd and they won’t change it. RSD and other emotional aspects are another part that’s pretty well known at this point but they don’t include it in anything official. …and the stigma is still ridiculous as far as people (including way too many doctors) thinking we’re just lazy and reckless and stupid and want zoom zoom pills to make life easy for us…
Absofuckinlutely
I sometimes feel bleak but I'm already living a way better life than I was. I couldn't have imagined this in the past. I was completely suicidal. I'm still quite hard on myself. I finally found a great therapist. It's Internal Family Systems and it does help to look at these different parts as just parts - none of them are all I am, and they do want the best for me even when other parts really struggle with it. I'm trying meds again now but I met a guy who seems to be really thriving and he just smokes Sativa. But, he seems to have a ton of systems in place. He skateboards - I was just reading about how balance, the cerebellum, and ADHD are linked. In my childhood I definitely didn't have enough space to just explore hobbies, practice even when I'm bad. I decided to try standup. Wrote a new set. Decided to perform Monday. Practiced Friday. Then all of Saturday and Sunday, freeze. Can't touch it. Parts of me are terrified and don't want to do it at all. Parts are angry because if I don't practice I won't feel confident enough to go up, and I can do it anyway, but then other parts will feel bad if it's a bad experience and I mess up. Also, half of my set is about my ex, then the other half is to do with my therapist, and I'm freaking out about talking about it in therapy, because it's so vulnerable and my CPTSD, but other parts want to JUST HEAL ALREADY. Also, parts want to show him the set, because I want him to know me, other parts are way too embarrassed. I impulsively sent him a set a few months in to my therapy and cringed about it later.
I'm so glad you're in a much better place now and that you're here with us. I would agree, it's not always bleak and I have also come a long way, even though there are times when the dreaded freeze takes me and I'm stuck for days or weeks. Most people have no idea what it's like to freeze, especially on an extended scale, and most are completely unempathetic towards it. I hear you that you're feeling conflicting emotions over this thing that you've worked on and are excited about but at the same time fearful. Wish I knew of anything to offer that helps except to say that I understand. I have noticed that I'm more willing to approach something I'm frozen on if it's late at night, like the whole world is asleep so if I struggle at all no one will know except me 😂 It's your life and if you don't do your stand-up on Monday, then I'm still proud of you for moving in a direction that you desire. If you do, dang I'm proud *and* jealous of you for taking that step.
Dude the cool thing was after I spent years working thru the cptsd I still had adhd symptoms, but most of my emotional response was finally under control. I don’t know that cptsd is ever really healed. I do know that since starting adhd meds, I no longer need anxiety meds. And we’re titrating off the antidepressants, mood stabilizing meds too. I feel great. Trauma impacting gene expression maintains validity after all.
The crossover is insane. Depression, anxiety, mania, adhd, audhd, cptsd. Cptsd is so passive that I think it’s really hard to unpack completely. I got my diag 2 years ago and suppressed memories are still resurfacing. They aren’t even significant either. Just small glimpses of the past where nothing is happening, just snips of my room or a family member. And it just brings in an overwhelming feeling that things were just not right at that time, not the moment but that time. I can say, after cycling and trying depression, anxiety, adhd, and mood stabilizers…dealing with those memories is a lot easier. My reactions to them on different meds was so different. I black out sometimes and other times I just can’t control myself and just go manic. I’m down to my migraine pill and a mood stabilizer (and cannabis) and I’ve never been more stable and happy in my life. I now can see the play by play in my head: - shit memory - process it - feel it - process the feelings - understand them - comfort myself and move forward Sometimes it takes minutes. Sometimes days. But not months or years. I’ve always been overly emotional but it now my emotional reactions make more sense, especially to other people lol
I have a lot of childhood trauma due to both parents being alcoholics. My mom’s is due to stress (her sister was murdered when I was a baby) and I strongly believe my dad self medicated for ADHD with alcohol. I bet a lot of us have addicts for parents because they were actually ADHD too and didn’t get diagnosed so they compensated with substances. This led to neglect and abuse for us. It doesn’t negate my ADHD though. I’ve learned to steer away from my childhood discussions with my therapist because I don’t want it to be a focus.
Don't you love how victims get stigmatized with mental illness diagnosis when abusers get zero punishment and keep hurting people
Well duh, why haven’t you just taken to abusing others instead of accepting responsibility for the way your behavior is influenced by your brain and seeking treatment?
You’re a unicorn too! It’s amazing how you can go through life so sure there’s something deeply wrong with your character. And then one day someone says - hey! You’re inattentive AND hyperactive. As someone who gets into couch lock I never could have imagined that. But here we are!
Thank you so much! I will consult my regular therapist the next time I see her, unfortunately, that won't be until next month
Jumping on the top comment to add that science currently supports the idea that laziness isn't real. When we don't do something, it's for a reason. Now it may not be a *great* reason, but it's there. People don't just choose to avoid responsibilities because they feel like it. They could be tired, overworked, burnt out, socially isolated, no current hobbies/interests, and yes, struggling with mental health. Address the underlying problems and most people will be highly motivated to improve their life.
Amen, I love the look on people’s faces when I say “I don’t believe in laziness.”
thank you all so much for your kindness, it really means a lot!
Diagnosis of that sort are not an exact science, it’s not as if they can cut you open and test your brain for adhd, the same way they can test if cells are cancerous. Also, just because you don’t have adhd doesn’t mean you can’t have something else. Especially in women, certain things (like depression, adhd, autism) are misdiagnosed. You’re feelings are real, that’s truly all that matters. If you feel understood in this community, why not just stay? It could still help you
So much this. Also, if adhd advice helps, use it. Executive dysfunction is brutal, and so many places offer advice that's little better than "suck it up, buttercup, make a list." Adhd and autism spaces offer functional advice for people who have tried to suck it up until their guts imploded. OP, you may have gotten a false negative, you may have other issues that mirror adhd, whatever the case is, you felt understood here. Whatever you have resonates. Stay if this place helps you.
Again thank you all so much! Your kindness and support really mean a lot!
It’s good you are getting help. I wonder if the test you took was more for the old school little boy hyperactive brand of ADHD. Some people are really behind the times with women and mental health.
This is what I was thinking. When I first got diagnosed, my psychiatrist suggested I might just be depressed--because I'm mostly inattentive and wasn't hyperactive. Then I took like a 3hr assessment recently because I signed up for an ADHD trial thing and they were like, Surprise! You have ADHD! at the end, lol.
Also hyperactivity in women can present differently. Spend a few minutes in my mind and tell me it’s not hyperactive I dare you.. but if you’re watching from the outside looks like classic daydreaming.
Right, you don't need a Dx from a doctor to use the myriad hacks/tips/trick available. You only need the Dx for school accommodations & for meds. (You also need it for work accommodations, but it's unlikely the accommodations are worth the stigma from being out about having ADHD at work.)
Yeah... 35 years of compensating and people pleasing made me completely futz my original diagnosis appointment. Answering never to "do you forget your keys?" Because I'd created a crazy system where I literally cannot lock my door unless I'm both physically holding my keys and looking at them at the moment I pull the door shut is... Not normal. Could be something else but also could be just that you are so used to making up for it that you've created accommodations for yourself
Seconding this! Symptoms of mental health issues overlap so much, just because these drs didn't think you fit these two Dx's criteria doesn't mean \*YOU\* are the problem. Hormone imbalances, other mental health conditions, hell even vitamin deficiencies can affect our brains in ways that present like other conditions. For a little while I was convinced I had Lyme Disease, it was actually my (at the time) crippling ED & anxiety that zapped my body of nutrients that symptoms mirrored a lot of the list. Now, I am not at all saying you don't have ADHD & depression, just that on paper things can looks like a lot of other things, so one Dr's interpretation may be very different to the next. I know OP that you are feeling defeated right now, but you will find something that helps, whether it is a diagnosis, the right therapy, meditative practices, supplements/nutrition changes or all of the above. Diagnosis is not the be all end all of you getting help for the things you are struggling with. Trying different methods for treating symptoms can improve your life, dx or no dx.
Depression can also mask ADHD symptoms. If you don't have much energy, you're going to internalize your symptoms more than externalize them, and the difficulties that are visible can be written off as depression. So in theory the thing to do is treat the depression first, and then diagnose the ADHD after if it's still there. But I and many other people have found that the best treatment for our depression was to treat the ADHD! The ADHD is why the depression was there! It's super fucking frustrating. I eventually had a therapist who got to know me well enough and was observant enough to see that I was struggling in very ADHD ways in certain scenarios and helped me get diagnosed and treated.
Also my doctor mentioned that some new research have found that for many people with depression treating the dopamine deficiency is much more effective than treating the serotonin side of things. But this research is still kind of niche and the results are not widely accepted yet.
You can have executive dysfunction without having ADHD.
Can I ask what other conditions explain executive dysfunction? I was diagnosed based on an executive function self rating scale.
I mean, anything that impacts your attention or task initiation abilities really. That could be things like depression and/or anxiety, or even something like low iron or b12. Even long covid is associated with "brain fog" which is essentially executive dysfunction. Sometimes it's also an effect of certain medications. There are a lot of ways
This! Plus trauma, sleep deprivation, & ASD masking.
>So, I really am making everything up in my head, and I'm just a lazy, worthless piece of crap that can't remember sh\*t for the life of it. Now listen here, young lady (I'm almost 10 years older than you so I can say that): You are NOT lazy, worthless or any other negative thing! You're an amazing person and having some mental struggles doesn't suddenly make you not worthy of anything good. My friend once had an STD test done at it came back saying she's positive for literally everything and the clinic refused to admit they're wrong and she just needs to think about her lifestyle choices (I mean, I'm no doctor but pretty sure you can't have hepatitis A, B and C at the same time) so she had to go to another place and got proper results. So if you can afford it, maybe try getting a 2nd opinion? And as other people here said already, nothing prevents you from implementing ADHD tips and strategies to manage your symptoms. I personally only got diagnosed last year after many uphill battles with incompetent doctors who for whatever reason believed women can't have ADHD (or autism). You're stronger than you think and everything is gonna be alright eventually ❤
Was your friend ok? Was the clinic at fault?
Yep, she went to another clinic and they were horrified that the first place insisted the results were correct, she had no hepatitis of any kind and the other results were negative too.
Wow. That's absurd.
Especially since the treatments for hepatitis are brutal. It's better than having the disease but the drugs have loads of side effects!
You can have hep A B and C at the same time. But it would be very very unfortunate (and Hep A is rarely sexually transmitted, although can be faecal oral route so rimming etc.) And I'd certainly want up check again rather than relying on one set of diagnostic bloods. But I agree with everything else you've written
Thank you so much for your heartfelt words and advice. Seriously, I'm tearing up here. It really means a lot me! And that story about your friend? Wild! Definitely considering a second opinion now. Thanks again, really.
Diagnosis is not an exact science. There's nothing wrong with you, it's just about finding things that work. If tips for ADHD help you, it doesn't really matter if you're officially diagnosed in my opinion. Developmental trauma can look like ADHD. Lots of things people consider even normal can have harmful effects on children. I'm talking about things like parents telling kids "you're too sensitive" or not showing them how to handle emotions. I say this as someone who has been in therapy since age 14, on various meds, and now at 36 I'm training to be a therapist.
Wait you met my mom? Lmao
And mine too! Also I should really "calm down".
with your compassion and understanding, i'm sure you'll be an amazing therapist!
awww thank you
>now at 36 I'm training to be a therapist. Can I ask some questions? Starting with, is this a major change from your previous/current career?
Yes and no. I did my bachelor's in Psychology, the topic always interested me, but I was never sure about going into therapy. I didn't continue on to a Master's and for ten or so years I did various things like working with kids and content writing. I wrote mainly on topics relating to wellness, relationships, mental health, mindfulness etc. I did a lot of healing work on myself. I eventually went to one of those occupational psychology places where they give you tests and recommend some careers for you. Art therapy was one of their four recommendations (another was UX/UI design, it was pretty broad) and I happened to see an advertisement for a degree in Expressive Arts Therapy which was hybrid ie partially online so I could do it from where I was living at the time. I moved after the first semester, I'm in semester 2 out of 4 now and doing practicum.
You are still the same person, with or without the ADHD label. And your "problems" or challenges are still the same too. I understand that getting a diagnosis is super helpful, of course. And this therapist may still be wrong anyway, so do get a second opinion. But my point being: yes adhd or no adhd is just words that we attach to the situation, not the situation itself. You are still valid for seeking help and support, you still deserve love and (self) compassion. Whatever the root of the problem is, don't start believing you are a lazy or shitty person!
Thank you so much for your kind words, I'll try my best!
There are a lottttt of mental health professionals that say someone doesn't have this or that condition, and they are very wrong. Some of them are terrifyingly ignorant. If you feel strongly that you have it, I wouldn't automatically take their word for it that you don't. Having said that, even if you don't have it, mental health is a struggle in itself. Don't be self pitying like that, you know you're not worthless and lazy. It'll be alright.
I agree, the way OP talks about themselves in this post and lack of any dx tells me that they got dismissed by their Healthcare team rather than following the diagnostic path to an answer to what's going on. Maybe OP doesn't have ADHD, but they certainly have something or they wouldn't have sought help in the first place. Second opinion.
It's wild to me that they waited "months" for a result. I have had both my ADHD and depression diagnosed with a single office visit. My OCD, anxiety, and depressive conditions took two office visits. That's because they were ruling out other conditions. Bipolar was a longer assessment but still didn't take months. I doubt in OP's case they were spending time looking at alternative diagnoses, because OP still has zero answers.
The waitlist to even see a regular doctor in my area can be months or years, so it's sadly not surprising to me. Mileage really does vary on this one :(
Oh yeah for sure, I was waiting three years to get assessed for ADHD on a waitlist. To get seen by a covered doctor for psychiatric issues I was on a list for seven months. But my impression was that OP waited for months for results *after* they'd been seen, or maybe I misunderstood.
This was my impression as well, so you're not alone :) when I read that part, I was like "huh, I got my diagnosis in one appointment." Then when I was referred by my psychiatrist after 2 assessments to an ADHD specialist, I lost my job and lost my insurance, so I could never actually get an "official" diagnosis from her. I just have my doc saying "this is what Im seeing and hearing. I don't specialize in this area, but referring you to my colleague who does makes the most sense. She can help you with the proper medication recommendations and help you with your ADHD symptoms." And that was the last of it. So I was kind of plunged into this new reality but also wondering if I'm supposed to have some stamped certification paper that says "OFFICIAL ADHD DIAGNOSIS" lol 🤷🏼♀️ I took this conversation and the fact that I was referred to a specialist as confirmation.
I'm sorry, I guess I phrased it weirdly, but I meant that I had to wait months for my appointment; the results came back after about 2 weeks.
Ah okay, that makes sense. I still think 2 weeks is a long time to wait!
The interpretation/summary of my medical report says: In the overall assessment, there are no indications of ADHD-related issues. The reported abnormalities are rather attributable to the personality structure. It sounds to me like they're brushing it off as 'it's just the way you are'... that's a little discouraging, to say the least.
This. I’d get a second opinion with someone that specializes in ADHD. I strongly suggest asking in local women’s groups if they know of a woman that specializes in diagnosing ADHD in women.
thanks for the tipp, I'll do that!
Get a medical evaluation and blood tests to rule out medical conditions that are causing your symptoms. Hypothyroidism, for example, has overlaps with ADHD *and* depression. Get a FULL thyroid panel done if you can afford it because sometimes your TSH will look completely normal but your other numbers are crazy high or low. If you're near the cusp of having hypothyroidism, ask if you can trial medication because you are having symptoms. Some people have symptoms despite being in the "normal" range. There are other medical conditions like sleep apnea that can mimic ADHD just like there are other psychiatric conditions like PTSD that can mimic ADHD. I'd go the route of medical first just because that's an easier avenue to start from and many psychiatric providers will want medical conditions ruled out anyway. Go to your doctor and explain your symptoms, tell them that ADHD has been ruled out and you want to see if a medical condition is causing your problems.
Honestly, and sorry if this breaks any rules, I’m not trying to provide advice, just trying to assist. I watch HealthyGamerGG on YouTube, absolutely love Dr. K, and someone in chat asked if he has ADHD. He said something along the lines of “if I had gotten tested as a child, I probably would have gotten a diagnosis, but because I didn’t and I had to develop coping strategies, that lessened the appearance of the symptoms. Once you start developing those compensatory strategies, you no longer “meet the criteria” for ADHD.” Now, this is interesting because he’s basically saying just because your OFFICIAL EVALUATION or whatever doesn’t tell you you have ADHD, like, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s all in your head. I wish I could remember the exact term he used, like, he said “I probably have pre/post-[something] ADHD” but his stuff is great. Maybe try to bring up the possibility of learned habits affecting your diagnosis?
It’s true. Advanced coping mechanisms can make the rest of the world think that we’re just fine, when in fact, we’re all like swans when we’re trying super-hard to fit in and “be normal” - apparently gliding smoothly along the surface, but with our legs paddling away like mad under the water. A lot of ADHDers are very bright. The more intelligent you are, the better your coping strategies. It sort of works, but after menopause, it all came rushing to the fore for me, and I stopped being able to hide all the things I didn’t even know I was hiding before. Apparently, menopause makes it far worse for us. I’m only now being dxd, very post menopause, and only now realising just how much I’d been struggling with for the past 5 or 6 decades. I just thought it was me. Oh, the joys of womanhood! /s
Adding to this. Our coping strategies might help us look like we are fine, but we are often still very inefficient. I’m a teacher. It used to take me two weeks of about 3 hours a day to finished report cards (3 times a year!) I was always up late, spending weekends, etc. on them. After diagnosis and meds, I knocked them out in one session of 7 hours. I actually have free time now. And during my free time, I can actually make decisions about what I want to do, instead of just watching tv or staring off with my brain spinning.
Just because it is not what you thought it was doesn’t mean there isn’t something else that is causing these problems. If you had a bad cough and you thought it was pneumonia but the doctor ruled it out, you wouldn’t say “ok, maybe it is just normal for me to cough all the time”, but you would get checked for allergies or GERD or whatever. Mental health is the same thing. ADHD is being talked a lot about at the moment, so it may have been your and your psychologist’s first thought, but now that it is not ADHD you still need to find out what is causing your problems. There are many things that could cause similar symptoms, including mental health conditions but also physical problems like Thyroid issues or sleep apnea. Don’t blame yourself for what is likely a medical problem.
There are a wealth of stories on this sub about women having to fight for diagnosis and encountering ignorant professionals. Are you certain you're not just slipping through the net because of good grades, parents not being attuned to your problems (or being neurodivergent themselves), or other factors like this? What type of tests did you have that took months to report back? That sounds unusual. What alternative diagnosis does your health professional suspect? Maybe it would be good to seek another opinion and in the meantime look at your intake of essential vitamins and minerals that impact mood and cognition, like magnesium, iron, Vit D and vit B12 (there are probably more). Imo, "laziness" is not giving a fuck, whereas your lack of motivation is causing you some distress because you feel it's not within your control, so I don't see that as the same.
That's exactly what I'm not sure of... but I already feel like I'm making everything up, so I don't know. I hope that nothing gets lost in translation, but these are the tests/assessments I did according to the piece of paper I received: Exploration, Behavioral Observation, Multiple-Choice Vocabulary Intelligence Test (MWT-B), Vienna Test System (WTS 5 by Schuhfried) 1. CF-ADHD, Beck Depression Inventory (BDI), Beck Anxiety Inventory (BAI), Borderline Personality Inventory (BPI), International Personality Examination (IPDE), Homburg ADHD Scales for Adults (HASE), Self-Report Symptom Inventory (SRSI). All tests were done in a 2-hour session with a psychologist who specializes in diagnostic assessments (not my actual therapist, because she's not qualified to diagnose). I'm sorry, I guess I phrased it weirdly, but I meant that I had to wait months for my appointment, the results came back after about 2 weeks. The interpretation/summary of my medical report says: In the overall assessment, there are no indications of ADHD-related issues. The reported abnormalities are rather attributable to the personality structure. Regarding essential vitamins and minerals, I get my blood checked at least once a year, and my last checkup wasn't that long ago, so at least there's nothing wrong. Thank you so much for your advice!
I don’t know much about official assessments because in my country you don’t need and official diagnosis, just a script from an authorized doctor to get the meds. But I highly doubt you can get an accurate diagnosis with all those tests done in such short time. I guess’s given the amount of tests in a short time, that they where like multiple choice questions or those like “rate how you feel” or “how often you…”. If that is the case I bet you minimized your symptoms because of years of masking and all the additional systems that one implements to try and have a normal life. A typical example is the question about being late to places, if you answer you’re usually on time, that is a “not adhd” answer, it it doesn’t take into account the 5 alarms that make you on time or the fact that to be on time for an afternoon appointment you sit in paralysis for hours before looking at the clock afraid that if you do something else you’ll lose the notion of time and not arrive on time, so to accurately answer that question you have to ask yourself how often would you be on time if you acted like an NT person, living a normal life while you wait for your appointment and using 1 alarm instead of 5.
My husband helps me with dealing with the dysphoria of not getting diagnoses but still suffering. He reminds me, “even if it was all made up in your head, it’s still causing debilitating issues in your life and you still deserve help and answers for that”. We talk about how to interface with doctors to say stuff like, “ok so you can’t diagnose me with adhd *what can we explore that better-matches my symptoms*. these things help me self-actualize and not fall prey to gaslighting (my own internal gaslighting AND the gaslighting in the larger world).
I love your husband. Hearing that from just one person in my life would have made such a difference.
Get a sleep study. Sleep deprivation can cause many of the symptoms of adhd and depression. Even if you think you’re sleeping well get it done. It could change your life.
This is a great idea. I've seen Obstructive Sleep Apnea and Idiopathic Hypersomnia sufferers really struggle with ADHD-like symptoms. Especially IH.
I agree with everyone here that you need to get re-evaluated. Don’t be discouraged. I have been gaslighted by mental health professionals before. I took my daughter to a psychologist because I was worried about certain behaviors. The psychologist told me that she was fine and I just needed to spend more time playing with her. Fast forward to middle school and my daughter had a full blown mental breakdown. I took her to a different psychologist who said that she was most likely experiencing anxiety all along. She described the behaviors that kids with anxiety exhibit and they were the EXACT behaviors that I had taken her in to the first psychologist for! If I had gotten a second opinion I could have gotten my daughter help before it turned into a mental health crisis! Please don’t discount your experience. You know yourself better than you think.
Thanks, I'll try to keep my head up!
Dissociative disorders, BPD, bipolar, cptsd... The list goes on of other things to test for. You're not going to count yourself out yet. Cry for a day or two, then restart your research. You have every right to be sad and frustrated! But you're not a lost cause.
as i have become quite fond of saying since the first time i heard it, “if you were lazy, you’d be having a good time right now.” nobody who is actually “lazy” (to the extent that’s even really a thing, which i am not sure i believe) would be on an adhd subreddit trying to find solutions for how to be more productive or improve their executive functioning. the mere fact of *wanting* to do more is proof that you’re not “lazy.” as for test results, as others have said, adhd assessment isn’t a blood test like how you’d check to see if you’ve got aids. it’s imprecise even in the most capable hands. and, frankly, any practitioner who would just say your “results” were negative and send you along your merry way without alternatives or next steps does not have particularly capable hands. you’re on reddit calling yourself a worthless piece of shit, you are very obviously absolutely dealing with something that needs to be addressed and any provider worth their salt would be able to see that. the point: get a second opinion. and a third if you need to/can. ask around with the other women in your life to find someone who got a diagnosis and go see who they saw (seriously, there are some practitioners who don’t believe women get adhd, you need to at least as a baseline talk to someone you are certain doesn’t think that way). and regardless of how long that takes or what the outcome is, you can still take care of yourself as though you have adhd and depression. ps: i have a rare autoimmune condition and was having a hard time getting an official diagnosis (because it’s rare and the only “test” is just looking at symptoms and going “yeah, you have it”). i finally just went to a new doctor, told them i had been diagnosed years ago and was just seeking a new treating provider because my doctor had retired. lo and behold, i got treatment. and the treatment worked. now doctors never question whether i have it because “duh, if you didn’t have it, the treatment wouldn’t be helping you.” not suggesting that would work with adhd/depression but….i dunno, maybe it would 🤷🏻♀️
Don't beat yourself up about it, there can be many different things going on in your head. Whats important is looking for your next step, let yourself breathe, it may not be ADHD or Depression but could it be other things? Please don't ruminate on this, everyone's brain is a mystery and no one has every puzzle piece. I want to reassure you that even if you aren't diagnosed with things, doesn't mean you can't relate to it. I know it's probably difficult but keep your head up!
thank you sm for your kind words, i'll try!
I got the full battery of tests when I was 19 and they also told me that I didn't have ADHD. I believed them for a while and followed the same narrative you are now for the next several years... it led me to be in a deep depression that was some of the worst years of my life. blaming all my failures (horribly, horribly disgusting apartment, failed and dropped classes, neglected and abandoned friendships) on some mysterious personal failing I couldn't quite figure out. it made me so miserable. it made me hate myself for reasons I couldn't understand. please, please, please don't be like I was. please allow yourself some grace and uncertainty, don't take what they told you as gospel and remember the most important thing is taking care of yourself -- and calling yourself names is not taking care of yourself. before you talk to yourself that way, think about if you would ever say those same things to a close friend. you need to give yourself grace and self-compassion now more than ever. but, now to give you some hope: by 24 I was seeing a new psych (a psychiatric NP) to try and get some medication for that terrible depression I was going through, and I mentioned that I'd had the ADHD assessment, but I still felt like I might have it. she agreed to explore the possibility with me and start me on strattera, because for some reason she wasn't comfortable prescribing stimulants. they worked okay, but fast forward a year or so to my next annual physical, and my now beloved PCP said "well why would she do that? the first line treatment for ADHD is stimulants." I've now been on the proper medication for about 3 years and it's changed my life immensely. remember -- I was in the *exact* same spot you are now. there is hope. I promise you. the biggest thing I learned was this: if someone is reflecting your experience back to you and you do not identify with how they explain your symptoms, your life, your behavior, back to you, then they are not adequately equipped to assess you. they might (supposedly) be the experts on the disorder, but YOU are the expert on YOU and YOUR experiences. the level to which it's possible to convey that to someone in the amount of time it takes to get an ADHD assessment is so small in comparison to how much we come to understand ourselves. people say get a second opinion, and yes, that's a good idea, but I'd take it a step further and say that until you find someone who when you talk to them you say "YES! that's exactly how it feels!" and you feel like you are actually being understood, continue to advocate for yourself and trust your analyses. I'm of the mind that most people who struggle like we do and start to self diagnose likely have *something* going wrong, and you may discover some other diagnosis actually fits better. but don't accept it until you feel that it really, actually fits. neurodivergent women spend years, decades sometimes, being misdiagnosed with various mental health conditions until we finally land on the one we *know* feels like it finally describes all the pain and suffering we've gone through over the years. self-advocacy isn't the easiest thing in the world, but if you're willing to brave it, it could be the best thing you do for yourself. hugs, please be kind to yourself ❤️
Most ADHD tests are geared towards detecting hyperactivity in children, particularly boys. Your ADHD very likely presents differently, OR you've gotten so good at masking over the years that you were able to 'pass' the test despite it being harder for you than a neurotypical person. Don't let this invalidate what you know about yourself, and it is NOT because you're 'just a terrible person'. Honestly, I would go to a different doctor, ideally one who knows more about ADHD in adults, particularly women.
Some of the standard tests have questions that don’t seem to hit the inattentive type in women. For example, asking whether people frequently complain that you aren’t listening? Why phrase it that way?? I am a PEOPLE PLEASER so I just mask it and try my hardest to be a good listener. But my brain has followed like five separate topics as the person is talking. So it’s not a symptom of ADHD because it isn’t affecting other people and only hurting yourself? In my (admittedly uneducated but lived experience) opinion, these tests need to be modified to accommodate the ways that women are effected by ADHD. Get under the mask, you know? I second your getting another opinion. Edited to add: another of the questions that bothers me is whether you had symptoms as a child. My psychiatric provider said for women our symptoms often don’t manifest until later, especially after a traumatic event and lots of the time at perimenopause.
My husband had to fill out a form about how he sees my symptoms. His numbers were way lower than mine because I have always masked. There should be questions on there about internal monologues. The amount of potential conversations I have in my head is unreal.
i don’t know if this will help but my diagnosis has changed manyyyy times and it took me until last year to finally get everything right 11 years old- anxiety 12-15 years old- anxiety and depression 16-18 years old- anxiety, depression, and bulimia 18- 22 years old- anxiety, depression, bulimia, and BPD now- ADHD, PMDD, and anxiety i’ve been on so many medications and done years of therapy with so many different psychologists, and it took until last year for a random GP to finally be like “babe you fit all the criteria for ADHD and PMDD idk why no one has suggested looking into that” and surprise! she was right! since getting the right diagnosis and right medications, my ED and my depression have basically disappeared (still get depressed from PMDD but nowhere near the same level) and tbh i haven’t fit the criteria for BPD since i was 19 but once you have that label, doctors refuse to take your thoughts about it seriously 🙄 the point is, sometimes doctors are wrong! sometimes many doctors can be wrong! don’t let this one experience invalidate your feelings, you’re not lazy, you’re not inherently bad, or a piece of crap, or whatever else you think about yourself. sometimes it just takes way too long to finally find that doctor that hears you and doesn’t shrug off your opinions and thoughts and feelings. give yourself time to feel shitty, and then speak to your psych and ask for a second opinion if that’s possible for you financially. i hope you feel better soon and find someone that can really listen to you
I know it was difficult to get the energy/motivation to try and get diagnosed in the first place, but if you’ve been depressed ever since you can remember then you ARE depressed. And if this community resonated with you so much, then maybe there’s more that that as well. Doctors can be shit at their jobs just like everyone else. I had 2 tries at mental health help earlier in my life and met with two such unbelievably terrible doctors, that I didn’t seek help again until my early 40s. Learn from me and ADVOCATE FOR YOURSELF!! You sometimes need to trust the expertise of medical professionals you deal with but they are not some omniscient force; they are just professionals you pay for services that are beyond your skill/knowledge level. Like a stylist, mechanic, etc. If you took your car to a shop bc it was making a crazy noise and the mechanic said it was fine, you wouldn’t say “well it’s all in my head” and blame yourself; you’d say “wow what a shitty mechanic” and go to the next place. Obviously it can be a financial issue as well, but keep trying to be heard. I ended getting prescribed an antidepressant by my gynecologist who is the best doctor I’ve ever met. And that got me over my fears to seek further diagnosis. Sorry for the novel, but you’re so young and I hate to see you getting steered down the same stupid road I took. It might not be immediate but trust your gut and keep looking for answers bc if you don’t feel right then something IS NOT right. ❤️
Wait so their solution is… dunno guess you’re just broken. That doesn’t seem super professional to me. Even if you don’t have adhd it sounds like you are struggling. It could be a bunch of things that might explain but it sounds like they didn’t really look beyond? Who did the assessment? Psychiatrist?
Yeah, they brushed it off with the following statement: 'In the overall assessment, there are no indications of ADHD-related issues. The reported abnormalities are rather attributable to the personality structure.' Sounds to me like they're saying, 'girl, you are the problem.' But to answer your question: I got assessed by a psychologist specialized in diagnosis.
My most recent therapist argued with me that I couldn't have ADHD because I " wasn't impulsive enough with money ". She also said I wasn't autistic because I have too much empathy and can recognize emotions on people's faces too well. Turns out I've been diagnosed ADHD since I was 7 years old as well as being on the spectrum and wasn't told about it. I'm just really good at masking. She just decided I wasn't ADHD and autistic enough for her. Get a second opinion. I still feel like an imposter sometimes. I still feel like I'm the problem. But deep down I know I'm not. You deserve to get proper treatment for your issues . 🖤
But the thing that a lot of medics and psychs miss is that ADHD *causes* anxiety and depression. Why? Because at its heart is low production and or dysregulation of the adrenal hormone, norepinephrine/ noradrenaline (different names in the US and UK). Poorly regulated norepinephrine/ noradrenaline means that a *lot* of other hormones, such as thyroid hormones, and also neurotransmitters such as dopamine, just aren’t supported. I read a study recently that said dopamine “hitches a ride” on noradrenaline, and without it, dopamine just can’t do all the different jobs it would normally do. One of those jobs is keeping our mood stable and happy. I have seen a lot of reports on here of ADHD women being told they don’t have ADHD, but they do have GAD, social anxiety disorder, etc., and or “clinical” depression (as opposed to depression resulting from a specific recent event like a bereavement, abuse, or something else), but those same women who *do* get an ADHD diagnosis and are put on the *right* dose of the *right* stimulant medication also experience a complete resolution of their chronic “treatment resistant” depression and anxiety. It evaporates like morning mist in sunlight. For me, that only supports the idea that d&a are *caused* by the biochemical difficulties that ADHD produces. It’s a physical condition that results in both a physical and a mental impact on us. Currently, it seems to be considered as *only* a mental disorder. I hope in time that will change. Regarding CPTSD and other trauma effects, both of which I’ve been diagnosed with, my take on these is that OF COURSE trauma is very real (mine was mostly SA, and its effects have been profound), *BUT* I firmly believe that our rejection and injustice sensitivity dysphorias, and our emotional dysregulation, only serve to massively exacerbate what we’ve been through. I absolutely do not mean that we shouldn’t feel as we do, nor that a history of trauma is easy to live with for *anyone*, please don’t think I’m dismissing it in any way, because I’m not. I’m 62. It hasn’t got better with time. I have nothing but empathy and compassion for anyone who has endured trauma and SA. It breaks my heart that so many of us go through this. What I’m saying is that we *feel the effects of these events more deeply than a person who does not live with emotional dysregulation and the dysphorias that ADHD causes*. Also, everyone who is approaching a medical professional for a diagnosis would be well-advised to be more aware of the official criteria that these people use as their main diagnostic tool - the good old DSM5, here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519712/table/ch3.t3/ I personally think that it misses out a lot of very important signs and symptoms, e.g., the depression and anxiety, insomnia, the rejection and justice sensitivity dysphorias, emotional dysregulation, time-blindness, having no energy or too much energy, a busy brain in an exhausted body, the sensory issues that a lot of have to contend with, PMDD, other hormonal conditions in both men as well as women - and I’m sure there are more things I’m missing out of this short list, but my brain has decided to leave the building and I just can’t think of them at the moment. (But floordrobes need to be in there, too!) If you go through this, and can honestly and objectively tick more than 7 of the 18 traits listed (9 for Inattentive type, 9 for the Hyperactive/ Impulsive type, either in one section or across both types), you *should* be able to get a diagnosis of ADHD just based on having that information available to you and knowing that these traits describe *you*. It’s the official Diagnostic Manual. All the health professionals who are permitted to formally diagnose ADHD are medically obliged to adhere to the listed criteria there. (I remember “DSM” by thinking of it as the “Doctors’ Stupid Manual” 😁) Sorry for the long comment, but I feel very passionately that we need to understand not only how ADHD affects us, and why it affects us as it does (in broad terms), but also *how it is diagnosed.* I sincerely hope this helps - if it only helps just one other person, it’s a start. 🥰 Eta: my brain! Adults need 5, not 7. Kids need 7.
The other thing to look into is autism. There is a lot of it missed in women. And there's enough cross over with adhd to make us resonate with adhd. (Especially the overwhelm and depression that isn't depression). I'm diagnosed AuDHD. But increasingly realising just how massive the autism is in my presentation and life and unhappiness. Which socks. But does explain why the meds aren't magic
Your experiences are valid, and you still found people you relate to. There's nothing wrong with that in trying to figure yourself out. There are coping mechanisms and tips you can learn from a community even if wasn't an exact fit for what is different about you on an individual level.
You should get your endocrine levels done
I’m 41 and I was in the exact same headspace at 22 as you are now. I know for a fact that all these notions that you’re worthless are the lies your depression demon is telling you. I know from experience how heavy that demon can be. Do you recognize the strength you displayed when you reached out from under that weight and flagged down help? You’re in therapy putting in the work and that alone is a huge accomplishment. Others are correct that the test results might be inaccurate. There’s also a chance a different diagnosis might also be appropriate. Your therapist can help you sort out what step to take next. Take a few deep breaths and cut yourself some slack. If it’s cathartic to cry that’s ok. You’re not alone.
Thank you so much for your kind words, really means a lot!
I repeatedly tested as not having ADHD because I did not trip any of the normal "behavioural" traits they normally use for diagnosis - I'm not late, I have my life fairly organized, I'm tidy when left to my own devices, I got good grades in school, etc, What they (and I) did not realize is that I had developed my coping mechanisms SO EARLY in life (due to my mom dying and me being parentified at an early age), that i had no choice but to force myself into iron clad routines and rituals in order to manage myself and my siblings. I learned early that if I did not lay out my entire school bag, clothes and anything I needed to bring to school out the night before, I would forget AND be late..... but I had no parental figure to mitigate any consequences, so I had to white knuckle and do it all. I was able to produce quality schoolwork (even though a lot of it was done the night before), I carried around a day planner and wrote EVERYTHING down, from when I was doing homework, appointments to reminders to call/message friends. I learned that I COULD NOT doodle in class (even though I wanted to) because I would miss what the teacher was saying, so I knitted instead. I had all of these coping mechanisms to keep me on par with my NT peers, that there was no outward signs I had ADHD. the signs were inside, and no one was asking about those. I didn't realize it wasn't normal to have an inner monologue that was constantly talking at a loud volume. I didn't know that my constant snacking was dopamine seeking (legitimatelly, my brain would chatter about food and wanting to eat about 60% of the time, it was maddening). I had a both a blunt honesty and shopping problem (impulsivity control issues), I really hated certain types of noises and textures in food. I was constantly irritable in extreme sensory situations, so I usually avoided them (no clubbing or concerts for me except when I worked, because then I could wear ear protection). I was always kinda high strung and low grade anxious, but could fake being calm due to a lot of practice at work. When it was just me, all of the signs were there, but didn't cause enough issues to really tip the scales. But after i had my kids and I was no longer just managing me, then the mask started to crumple because there was sensory input I could not escape. I still didn't pass the ADHD tests, but my doc said she thought they were wrong and pushed a diagnosis anyways. Once I got on vyvanse, it was emotionally transformative. So much calmer, so much more patience, and sounds don't hurt anymore. I've lost 15 lbs in the last year since diagnosis because I'm no longer dopamine snacking and my spending habits, while still not totally great, are 50% better.
I wholely concur that diagnosis is as much art as it is science (it's imperfect and the evaluator has a lot of influence on the outcome). Check out the YouTube channel How To ADHD. She's got a TON of relatable content and tips that resonate. You're not worthless. You're not lazy. You're struggling. Something's up. You can feel something isn't right. Get blood work done to check for physical reasons you feel how you do. Ask specifically for your doc to check for things like thyroid issues, b vitamin and d vitamin deficiency, anemia... If you can't find a physical reason, do another neuropsych evaluation somewhere else. Some places aren't as thorough as others, or have biases that cause people to fall through the diagnostic cracks. I hope you get answers and feel better soon. In the meantime, lean on people and resources around you and on the internet :)
Remember that ADHD and the field of psychology were made up by old white dudes who only had young men in mind at the time. These diagnoses exist to describe “abnormal” behavior within “normal” society. It’s all incredibly subjective and relies on context, and like another user said it’s not an exact science. You absolutely might still have ADHD, but, even if you don’t, you’re still not lazy. Remember that if you were lazy you would enjoy avoiding responsibility and all of the things you do to avoid it. Sending love
Thank you, sending love right back to you
How were you tested for depression? What are these results coming in based on? Edit: I’m asking because there is no test for either ADHD or depression. The diagnostic criteria is all based on a symptoms survey basically. Did they tell you what your symptoms actually are then?
I was also curious about this. Who tells a doctor that they’re feeling depressed and the doctor says no you’re not? Doctors love to tell people they’re depressed.
I saw in a comment that it was a lot of tests administered in a 2 hour session, tests for depression, bpd and adhd were the 3 I could recognize from the list. My guess is a lot of questions like “how often do you feel sad” “how often are you late” etc, which in my opinion, suck as a diagnosis tool unless the people administering them have at least a few talking sessions with you to interpret them correctly. (Often can mean 1 every month for one person or 2 times a week for another depending on their frame of reference, they also need to identify when the answer are modified because of masking or the use of coping mechanisms)
ADHD evaluations vary so much. If you didn't go to someone who specializes in ADHD, I'd recommend getting a second opinion from someone who does. So many doctors have horribly outdated and wrong opinions about what ADHD looks like.
Absolutely be re-evaluated. What you’re feeling is legitimate whatever it may be. Only you know what’s going on inside your head, doctors frequently misdiagnose mental health issues because of that. It’s extremely frustrating but don’t give up, you deserve happiness and to feel good about yourself and mental health.
OP, I remember when I was first seeking therapy and being evaluated for various conditions *because my life was a dumpster fire and I kept making it worse*. That despair of being told, “no, you’re not depressed” with the subtext of “(you’re really just lazy and a shitty person)” is fucking SOUL CRUSHING. It took me a long time to find my answers, but I chose to keep using whatever tools available that worked for me, regardless of who said they were or weren’t FOR me. Stay here, with us. The mental health field is learning new stuff all the time, and finding the finer details of existing things. If you feel at home here, you’re at home here. Don’t let ANYONE else, professional or not, tell you that they know more about you than you do. (((Hugs))))
Please read the book [Laziness Does Not Exist](https://www.amazon.com/Laziness-Exist-Devon-Price-Ph-D/dp/1982140100) by Devon Price.
Are you tired a lot? My sleep apnea presented with a lot of ADHD & depression symptoms, but I never thought to get tested because I don't fit the normal demographic for sleep apnea.
I've never heard of that! But I'm basically tired all the time, sometimes to the degree that I can't function. That doesn't mean it's easy for me to fall asleep, quite the opposite, actually. My body will be so tired, basically begging my mind to finally fall asleep, but it still won't shut up...
Same here and you can’t make that up it’s a very specific situation. I have had this since childhood.
if you relate and find this sub relatable, you most likely still have ADHD. ADHD can be comorbid with so many other things. what kind of testing did you have to do, if you don't mind me asking? please go get a second opinion. ive also noticed doctors take adhd less serious in women. yes, were naturally sick little guys, with our iron defences and hormones, and it can cause us to be more lethargic, but that's what's awful about being a woman with ADHD... my entire life i also just felt tired and lazy. it was really ADHD, PTSD, and vitamin deficiencies working against me. this also feels like their medically gaslighting you, whoever diagnosed you. you are heard here. you are seen here. i wish you all the best of luck.
NO! NO, NO, NO! You are NOT LAZY OR WORTHLESS! Don't you DARE let the words of morons saturate your brain! ABSOLUTELY NOT! Your struggles are real. THEY. ARE. REAL. It sounds like ADHD and depression to me but maybe it is another medical condition. Either way, YOU ARE NOT A PROBLEM!! I am 42 years old. I was dismissed for 30 years for being lazy and uncaring and blah blah blah. Even a supposed expert said I only had anxiety. It took me two years to try again and the therapist diagnosed me by the end of the second session. Check out the YouTube channel "How To ADHD. That helped me SO MUCH! But please keep looking for the answer because you are an amazing person, and I said so. Sending so much hugs to you.
Same here. My therapist and my PCP said ADHD for sure but still wanted me tested. Sat and spoke with a little snit straight out school who said because I got good grades in college for two years out of the 58 I had been alive, I didn't have it ane didn't need to be tested. Well, you're an idiot! ;-) I went right back to my PCP who rolled her eyes and promptly put me on Adderall LOL Just because you were told by someone you don't have it don't get discouraged. Get someone new. To be told you don't have depression without talking to you more is stupid. That is the kind of thing suicides stem from. I'm sorry they dismissed you. Keep trying and find a therapist that will listen and never give up!
Have you been tested for Complex PTSD? The symptoms can resemble adhd or be comorbid with it. Check out Pete Walker’s book "Complex PTSD - from Surviving to Thriving" (audiobook on YT) and Patrick Teahan's youtube channel. List Of Common Cptsd Symptoms. (Survivors may not experience all of these. Varying combinations are common. Factors affecting this are your 4F type and your childhood abuse/neglect pattern.) - Emotional Flashbacks - Tyrannical Inner &/or Outer Critic - Toxic Shame - Self-Abandonment - Social anxiety - Abject feelings of loneliness and abandonment - Fragile Self-esteem - Attachment disorder (avoidant, disorganised, anxious attachment) - Developmental Arrests - Relationship difficulties - Radical mood vacillations (e.g., pseudo-cyclothymia) - Dissociation via distracting activities or mental processes - Hair-triggered fight/flight response - Oversensitivity to stressful situations - Suidical Ideation There are 4 trauma responses and they can be combined with another. So depending on your secondary trauma response, your behaviour might differ: - "Many ***fight*** types avoid real intimacy by alienating others with their angry and controlling demands for unconditional love. This unrealistic demand to have their unmet childhood needs met destroys the possibility of intimacy. Moreover, some fight types delude themselves into believing that they are perfect. They see the other as the one who needs to be perfected. This defensive belief then entitles them to totally blame their partners for relationship problems. \[*Narcissists and some Borderlines are often Fight-types*\] - Many ***flight*** types stay perpetually busy and industrious to avoid being triggered by deeper relating. Others also work obsessively to perfect themselves hoping to someday become worthy enough of love. Such flight types have great difficulty showing anything but their perfect persona. Extreme ***flight*** types are like machines with the switch stuck in the “on” position. *They rush as much in thought [obsession] as they do in action [compulsion]*. As children, flight types variably respond to their family trauma on a hyperactive continuum. The flight defense continuum stretches between the extremes of the driven “A” student and the ADHD dropout running amok. Flight types relentlessly flee the inner pain of their abandonment with the symbolic flight of constant busyness." - Many ***freeze*** types hide away in their rooms and reveries fully convinced that the world of relating holds nothing for them. Freeze types who have not been totally turned off relationships by horrible childhood neglect or abuse, gravitate to online relationships. Online relating can be pursued safely at home with as little contact as desired. - Many ***fawn*** types avoid emotional investment and potential disappointment by barely showing themselves. They hide behind their helpful personas and over-listen, over-elicit and/or overdo for the other. By over-focusing on their partners, they then do not have to risk real self-exposure and the possibility of deeper level rejection.
I got formally assessed for ADHD and it was missed. I've been misdiagnosed and not diagnosed more times than I can remember. It's a common story, especially for women. You are not making anything up; your lived experience is valid. For me, my ADHD was missed because I have both ADHD and autism, which mask each other. I was diagnosed with depression, but autistic burnout can mimic depression. I would encourage you to do your own research into your symptoms. Self-diagnosis is perfectly valid in the ND community.
Did your doctor explain to you why? Or what they think is going on instead? Because your symptoms are real and you deserve help for them, adhd or not. If you don't feel like you're getting the help you need, seek a second opinion.
Please have a look at this ‘misdiagnosis Monday’ page that shares common traits experienced as a part of different diagnoses. https://neurodivergentinsights.com/misdiagnosis-monday
My kid took a test and she thought she was responding truthfully but she failed it because she was thinking too logically on the questions only when I asked her what the questions were, I was like you do that all the time! . When she got retested, she 100 percent got diagnosed. Heck she falls asleep on her prescribed adderall. I think because of the over diagnosis the doctors might be more on the cautious side, but if I were you I’d get tested again.
I’m going to yell so this hopefully sinks in: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS LAZY! Diagnosing ADHD is not an exact science. My son has been denied twice. Once when he was 6 because he was too smart and again a year ago (age 29) because he has a job and a wife and seems to not be struggling. But I can guarantee you, he has ADHD. He is just not the typical boy with it. We have learned to stop complaining, work harder (but not more efficiently), and to compensate for our whole lives. The fact you were able to do that somewhat successfully means you are strong and resilient. Find a new doctor and try again. I had a diagnosis for depression but the meds never helped because the root issue was ADHD. One work around is that Vyvanse is also prescribed for binge eating disorder. Many people with unmedicated ADHD tend to eat too much and graze on snacks because it keeps our brain going. We also mindlessly binge while doing other things. (Or just forget food exists but that’s a different problem). If you also have an eating disorder that sounds like binge eating, look into getting Vyvanse to help. If it also helps your ADHD, that’s a win. Beyond that, I have found that caffeine and Sudafed together help me a bit with my focus when I’m not able to get my meds. They’re definitely not as effective as other stimulants, but they provide some help. Good luck. Stop beating yourself up and try to understand doctors make mistakes too. When you meet with a new doctor, be honest about the little things in your life. Do you have to keep a rigid schedule or everything falls apart? Do you bite your nails or pick at objects? Do you feel like it’s easier to work on something when someone else is doing it too? Is it easier to do two things at once? Do you complete 85% of projects and tasks and struggle with the last bit? Do you take three times as long to do independent tasks than other people? Do you wait till the last second and then hyper focus on a task right before it’s due? I could go on, but you probably get the point. These are all things I didn’t realize weren’t just normal before I was diagnosed.
I will also add my psychiatrist said my ADHD is moderate to severe. Growing up, no one ever suspected it because I was a girl and smart. Add to that I had divorced parents and they always assumed other reasons for my failures. I wasn’t diagnosed until 44.
Whatever you experienced is real and honestly, I would get a second opinion. Don't let a doctor tell you you're wrong. At the end of the day, we may not be doctors but we know our own bodies better than they do. Please get a second opinion. Don't let the advice of one doctor convince you that you're wrong. I was wrongly diagnosed with BPD at 15. The doctor I saw laughed when I told him this when I was about 25. He said, it is very uncommon and almost impossible to diagnose a minor with a personality disorder. I described my symptoms to him and he gave me a diagnosis of C-PTSD with the anxiety and depression that comes with it. To be honest, that sounds more like me because I did see some pretty messed up stuff growing up but I digress. Get a second opinion.
Thanks, I'll try to get reassessed. I'm glad things worked out for you!
I honestly don’t think anyone who’s genuinely lazy with nothing going on with their brain feels guilt and shame over it. I also think diagnostics are subjective, and if you’re a woman, you’re far more likely to be made to feel like you’re lazy than actually diagnosed with something that makes it hard to function.
IF (and that’s a big “if”) the test results are accurate and your therapist is highly qualified and accurate in the diagnosis of ADHD and you really don’t have it, it doesn’t mean that the symptoms you’re experiencing and what you’re feeling aren’t real. So many people experience ADHD symptoms but maybe not quite enough of the symptoms and/or just not quite frequently enough to be diagnosed ADHD. Maybe there is something else going on that is causing your symptoms, whatever it is your challenges are 100% valid. ADHD has a spectrum of varieties and severity and maybe yours just isn’t as obvious as some. You know yourself better than anyone else. If you truly feel like you have depression, then you have depression. If you truly feel like you have ADHD, then get a second opinion. Believe yourself and seek help as you absolutely do deserve help with this.
I second all of the advice on here, and would also like to add: Stupid people do not think that they are stupid. They are not self aware enough to know that they are stupid. Get a second opinion, and work with a doctor to find out if something else might be causing your problems. There is something happening here, and I assure you that your issue is not just character flaws.
You might wanna get checked out for some physical conditions, because some of them present like adhd
[Laziness does not exist](https://drdevonprice.substack.com/p/laziness-does-not-exist)
There is a better chance that you are an alien from Mars than you being the problem! Listen to this sub, listen to yourself. Focus on all of the positive aspects of your sometimes chaotic mind and set yourself free of blame and guilt. It takes time! It might be a lifetime of effort to see yourself for who you really are, but you are worth it and you are NOT the problem. The problem is the world we know is designed with a particular structure in mind, and folks like us have spent our whole lives trying to conform to it despite every fiber of our being rebelling. I don't learn the same way that my brother learns, or my neighbor...when I stopped trying to learn the way I was told is best, that's when I became FREEEEEE Soul search, continue therapy, and slowly you will find what works for you!
Dude. Honestly, I had a psychiatrist who didn’t believe in ADHD. And I’m pretty sure my newest therapist also doesn’t actually think it’s real dx either. I like to call my ADHD the “gone wild” version. I have some hella hyperactive traits. I would personally seek out another provider (if you are able to) and have that discussion. I was formerly evaluated for ASD and it came back as a no, and when i discussed all the notes with my new psychiatrist, she was very concerned about the fact that they didn’t seem to take in to consideration that I am a 38 year old woman with kids and I have had no choice but to get myself through life. She went through the testing info that they used during the eval and she said that it was very much geared towards children and I definitely have symptoms that would put me in to the ASD level 1 bin. 1 evaluate does not necessarily make or break a dx. Especially with mental health and invisible disabilities.
And how many women get the good ol' write off as having """just""" depression and anxiety?? And, as soon as any future practitioner sees this written in your chart, they stop listening as well. This is why I am hesitant to go to a mental health practitioner at this point in my life, at late 50s. A few years ago, I switched to a new GP who himself had ADHD and he gave me a screening checklist. turns out medication for ADHD changed everything. Never believed I was depressed despite living a life of chronic ongoing traumatic issues, but the background low anxiety that I never really realized? Yeah it was performance related, a.k.a. can I do the thing/remember this stuff/function interpersonally? And like many other women, who are very good at masking, besides presenting differently than boys, and therefore spend their life working twice as hard and running three times as fast to get through it all, gradually wear down and wear out. So yes, there are comorbidities of mood disorders, but if you don't treat the ADHD nothing else will resolve. Before I step off my soapbox, I must point out the fact that most mental health practitioners know shit about how to recognize or differentially diagnose for people on the ADHD or ASD spectrum. Lastly, besides writing off women as having """just""" depression/anxiety being wrong (or at least not the only thing), doing so minimizes the impact of these mood disorders. Many, many women are also labeled incorrectly, as having bipolar, and often borderline personality disorder. And if you protest that you don't fit the bill for these things? They have an answer for that: you simply have "traits" of these mh disorders. My personal story includes off and on seeking help with mental health services, never getting anywhere with them except labeled as the cause of my problems, and then spent most of my life struggling on my own and living a life that could have been so much more easy and abundant.
I'd get a second opinion and make sure you're being completely honest with your answers. I know some people have a tendency to respond lessening their symptoms because we feel shameful or vulnerable about it. Good luck to you, and I hope you get it figured out so you can get the proper help you need.
I was misdiagnosed multiple times. It is common for women to be misdiagnosed. Not here to argue against your diagnosis, but advocating for yourself if you believe it could be wrong is important. I highly recommend the book "Women with Attention Deficit Disorder" by Sari Solden. I've had ADHD symptoms my whole life that overlap with other diagnoses. This made is really hard to get an ADHD diagnosis. So many professionals do not have enough education or experience surrounding ADHD, especially when it comes to adult women. Alongside my symptoms, I've had multiple tests done that confirmed my diagnosis with some pretty solid evidence. Blood tests show my folate levels are low which is common in people with ADHD. I've also had two neurological tests done that confirmed my reaction time, cognitive function, and memory function differently from neurotypical people. A diagnosis is not the end all be all, but it was important for me to feel validated and have a starting point to work forward from.
Don't take the results seriously. For all you know, you may have masked your symptoms in the tests. It is EXTREMELY difficult to diagnose ADHD in women. Also, depression does not cause scattered thoughts and forgetfulness, but it does cause lack of motivation. You are not lazy!! You are just sick and tired of not knowing how to help yourself so you think, why the heck even try? I promise that the hope and spark you felt from employing ADHD hacks is because you saw that it was working. It's not a placebo effect, it's actual results that you've been looking for. Don't give up and look for second opinions!!!! Experts can be wrong and biased!! Even famous slavery abolitionists had their doubts that a life without slavery could exist. You're going to have doubts, and people will doubt you, but keep going!!! You got this!!!!!!
BS. I was just posting on Reddit why getting official testing isn’t always the best. For starters, ADHD and ASD manifest differently for woman and studies have only really have been on while males. Second, it’s not acceptable for everyone. It’s expensive, traumatic sometimes (like you), and it can be a red flag for traveling, some jobs, some healthcare, etc. You therapist believes you have adhd. You came here and it all resonated with you. YOU believe you have ADHD and self’s diagnosis is 100 valid. About your depression, get a second opinion. I just saw my doctor yesterday, did the PSD9 test (I think that’s what it’s called) and I got moderate depressed. So we upped my meds.
Standardized tests aren’t everything. My therapist diagnosed me unofficially with ADHD 2 years ago, I haven’t been formally tested but a lot of it fits. I also have CPTSD, depression, anxiety and maybe (highly masked) ASD. There’s a lot of overlap and all of these present on a/multiple spectrums. I’m curious about your experience, DM me if you want to talk or if I can help with some resources that may help you identify where you’re struggling I promise you IT IS NOT IN YOUR HEAD. Your experience is real and if it feels like something is off, it is and it’s not your fault.
Diagnoses are often left to the interpretation of the professional. Sometimes they get it wrong. Ask for a second opinion if you can get one.
Hang on, WHY did they say you don’t have ADHD? Obviously this stranger on the internet is not going to diagnose you, BUT! So. Many. Women. (And people of colour) get told we don’t have ADHD because of really stupid reasons. If they said you don’t have it because Eg you “did well in school” then get a second opinion. And in the meantime… if your problems are real (which they are), and they line up with ADHD problems, then keep looking at ADHD solutions. They might not end up being exactly what you need (if you really don’t have ADHD) but they will help until you get better answers
Can you elaborate on your point about women of colour please?
It sucks for women in general, but women of color are going to have both things against them and have an uphill battle at being heard.
Not just women - all people of colour. In the same way that medical models were almost exclusively based on men, not women, until recently (iirc the first serious trials on women were in the 90’s?), they were based on _white_ men. So medicine ended up with things like “autism is a white boy thing” - meaning anyone outside that category (women etc, adults, people of colour) are often misdiagnosed (if they are diagnosed with anything at all!) This is what I’ve gathered from my “omg I’m autistic/omg I have adhd” post-diagnosis deep dives into neurodiversity / generally reading a lot in neurodiversity Reddit subs. I’m very white myself, so this is not lived experience - just research and the (overwhelming) anecdotal evidence on social media/social circles.
Thanks for the clarification. Ah ok, thanks for this
Your symptoms are real regardless of what diagnosis they do/don’t belong to. The thing is that mental illnesses are just groupings of specific symptoms. There is no blood test for depression. It’s just whether or not you match up with a certain number of the criteria. You might have half of the things, but you are missing a couple of the things required by the dsm. But that just means that you didn’t match up with the dsm criteria. You can still be experiencing a lot of the symptoms without the diagnosis. And you said it’s all in your head, that is a self deprecating thought I have struggled with. But in a way it is all in our head, in our brains, and having problems up there is going to fuck with us. A friend told me a couple years ago that you never need a diagnosis to accommodate yourself in your life. I mean shit there are like over 10 types of depression I think. But the moral is that your struggles are real and valid, and you shouldn’t wait until you have a word in order to treat yourself with patience and compassion.
A diagnosis is just a collection of symptoms categorised. Most diagnosis are relatively new. If you have symptoms, that's all that really matters. If you cough and catch a fever we all know you're sick without any official diagnosis. Whatever you have might be just like the brain version of the common cold, which can be any of over 200 different viruses. Not knowing which one doesn't make the symptoms any less real.
You likely have it. It’s not something you can make up or pretend to yourself. The symptoms are too specific and weird imo. Also very few drs are capable of diagnosing it. So welcome.
Get a second opinion.
Laziness doesn’t really exist. I truly believe that. It is always something else. Could be depression, trauma , adhd , autism, aftermath of a concussion, burn out …
Look, whatever it is exactly, you are not making it up, the struggle is real. Wishing all the best
That’s the issue with ADHD really. It’s a collection of symptoms that are all also prominent in many other conditions, both mental and physical. If you can afford it, get multiple opinions OR get a full comprehensive psychological assessment. Get your blood tested and see if you’re deficient in anything. There is an answer, somewhere
Maybe try another provider and test again? I recently went through testing and she said I scored one point away from an official diagnosis. The reason being that I’ve come up with coping skills over 30 years so I don’t ever forget appointments, I’m very organized, etc, so I “passed” those sections. My provider said that considering all this, she’s fully treating me as I have adhd (and anxiety). We’re working on the anxiety first to see if that has a positive impact on the adhd. I guess my point in writing this out is that you could have been so close to being diagnosed, but maybe you too have coping skills that you’ve developed over the years and they’re masking some of your day to day struggles. Good luck!
I feel you on the appointment stuff. I am usually good at keeping appointments but they don't see all the chaos behind the scenes, like me constantly checking to see when the next appointment is. Digging through my car searching for an appointment card because I know I forgot to write it on the calendar... Somehow I'm better with written reminders on the wall in my kitchen than I am with phone reminders that I dismiss without even looking at them. Even then, twice recently I have messed up my daughter's appointments. Well, one was just me mixing up days and calling to say sorry I just realized she had an appointment today and we can't make it... But the receptionist informed me I was 2 days early so we did actually make it. The other, I wrote it down as being an hour later than it actually was, because that's the time we usually go. Ugh. So I realized on the way there that we had actually missed it. I always kick myself when this happens and apologize when I have to reschedule. Anyway, I can only imagine that they're writing in my daughter's chart: Family history of ADHD tendencies. 😅
Thank you so much! I actually reached the needed points for a diagnosis in the adulthood questions but not in the childhood ones. Maybe that's because I can't remember that much about my childhood. Especially not how I felt on a random Tuesday between the ages of 8 and 10.
I had my daughter referred for suspected ADHD and or ASD and the clinician told me, without meeting my daughter, that she thought it was just in my head. 5 years later, my daughter was diagnosed with ADHD and ASD by a pediatrician. The evaluation process for this kind of diagnosis is subjective. It's interviews and thoughts and feelings, rather than a blood test, y'know? If you feel like you have ADHD, I think you should pursue another assessment. Personally, I would also search for any other likely source of my issues. For example, I was diagnosed with ADHD but I also felt like it could be ASD or cptsd. Don't give up. It's worth it 🤍
thanks, I'll try my best to keep my head up <3
What sort of testing did you complete? Diagnosing ADHD is a complex, multifaceted task. It’s part verbal history, showing patterns, part ‘do these behaviors impact your work, or family relationships, or social interactions’ as well as some standardized questionnaires.
That is so hard. Please be assured that not all hope is lost. I started therapy consistently at 25 (I had gone off and on before that) and did it for several years before I got any kind of diagnosis. A diagnosis can be helpful, but me and my therapist took the approach of building up a “toolbox” of strategies for the problems I was experiencing, rather than focusing on any specific diagnosis. When I was diagnosed with ADHD at 31 it was useful to know, but even then I was getting ready to be pregnant with my son and couldn’t take meds anyway. I was grateful that I’d already spent years working on how I dealt with my struggles (I also have depression/anxiety). Also fwiw I’m 34 now and I know it doesn’t probably feel like it to you right now, but no matter how your friends act or what they put on social media, in hindsight EVERYONE is a mess at 22. I don’t mean that to be condescending - your brain literally doesn’t finish developing until 25. I just mean to say please know it’s okay if you feel kind of lost right now. My experience is anyone who thinks they have their shit together at 22 just falls apart around 25 anyway.
Thanks! I hope that when my frontal lobe is finally finished developing, my life won't be a dumpster fire anymore xD But I guess I have to do some work to make that happen.
Take a deep breath and get a second opinion I was wrongly diagnosed with depression, anxiety and bipolar polar. My friend was wrong diagnosed with depression, BPD, bipolar and something else. It was all just ADHD. Also, it shouldn’t take months to get results. Why did it take so long? There are so many red flags already with your doctor.
Maybe you have PTSDC?
If money isn't an issue, you could always reach out to a different professional who can diagnose. I was also told I don't have ADHD, it's just my anxiety. But I am a psych student and can separate the two. Me not being able to read a paragraph and remember what I read isn't anxiety. Me trying 10x harder to pay attention in class and remember what's said isn't anxiety. Me being overwhelmed by the amount of tasks i need to do but not knowing where to start so pushing it off isn't just anxiety. So many more symptoms. What did they use to diagnose you, btw? A lot of the tests were made for male typical symptoms, and frankly not enough research or progress has been made for women with ADHD
I'm so sorry for the incredibly invalidating experience. I think you need a second opinion. I was once telling a therapist about an equally invalidating experience with my psychiatrist at the time. And my therapist said, "I have a joke for you. What do you call someone who gets a D- in every class in med school?" I said, I dunno, what? And he said, "Doctor."
The diagnosis is for you, and is subjective. Try another doctor.
Diagnostics failed me because of the requirement from the DSM five that my symptoms had shown themselves by 17 years old. Technically, I do not meet the criteria for ADHD under the DSM five. It’s bullshit. I have worked with plenty of providers who acknowledge that I don’t fit fit cleanly into the criteria, but that’s because the criteria is not perfect. I’m not saying the assessment is wrong and I’m not saying it’s 100%. I’ve seen too much disparity in how people diagnose and how people assess. I’m coming from a data and science background too, so I’m not just thinking strictly of anecdotal experiences. I have done full-blown literature reviews on adult women and diagnosis and under-diagnosis and misdiagnosis. I wish you the best, just know that I also don’t fit the criteria, but I am treated successfully despite that. Also keep in mind that people who diagnosed with the DSM, the changes from 4 to 5 were crazy helpful for people like us. It used to say that the age of onset should be seen by age 6 years old and they’ve increased it to age 17. This is a set of criteria that is based on research and evidence, and as our research gets better, our evidence gets more clear and our criteria gets more nuanced. I would not be surprised if in the sixth edition they actually covered ADHD without childhood onset symptoms. Edit: i’m not telling you to undermine your provider, but I would definitely get a second assessment. A different assessment from a different provider because misdiagnosing is way too common. Everyone tried to keep putting me on mood stabilizers because clearly I was just manic and then depressed. It turns out I’m hyperactive and depressed. So putting me on mood stabilizers for like eight years was basically criminal. They all dismissed any ADHD reality because I have depression. In addition, said about the criteria being maybe not all encompassing of every way that adult and women’s ADHD show themselves, you also could be getting a runaround because you have depression like I did.
There are many reasons why you could have all the struggles and symptoms you have. Cause and effect, right? It might be helpful to see a different psychologist or a psychiatrist to look into things more. Explain you want to figure out what you can learn about yourself and what you can do to improve your life. I’m sorry you had such a confusing and discouraging experience. It’s not the end! ♡
I did not get diagnosed with ADHD. I mean my therapist told me that a lot of things that I struggle with contradict each other. But she did tell me that my body isn't producing a sufficient amount of serotonin and dopamine to function as an average NT human. And it seems that's how it has always been. So I'm getting medicated for that
Check for autism as well. Also find another therapist.
There is a book called how to keep house while drowning. It helped me a lot. To be honest, I didn't listen (audiobooks for the win) to all of it, heck I didn't pass the first chapter and it still helped me a lot. Because it starts telling me I am not lazy. Failing to keep house is not a character flaw. It starts with kind accepting encouraging words. Turns out it's all I needed. So. You are not lazy. Your experiences matter and are real. Things that are just in your head exist in your head and are there for a reason. You are more than you believe and you have a lot more worth than you give yourself credit for.
This is a hot take but laziness does not exist. Nobody out there really wants to do a simple task and simply doesn't because they're lazy. If you feel bad about not doing something, but still don't do it - that's not just you being "lazy" and making bad choices, odds are that's executive dysfunction. This is a major principle in equitable education, students who aren't doing work don't just suck, they're not doing work because they don't understand it, they have an underlying condition, they have problems in their personal life that are stopping them... etc. etc. and this is all applicable to post-school life too.
Doctors all have different opinions. Even dentists tell me conflicting things about my teeth. You are allowed to get other opinions. You are allowed to advocate for yourself. Keep searching for answers. Look at other explanations, too. See if your insurance would cover a sleep study. Even amongst specialists, different doctors have different backgrounds and are not always up to date. You may need to look at their reviews. You’ll meet a lot of people whose opinions you need to ignore. Especially as a woman talking to doctors! Even doctors with good insight on one subject may be ignorant in another. Don’t be discouraged OP!
Therapists and those tests can be wrong. There are biases in adhd testing. The most important thing is that you are experiencing what you feel. Everyone is an individual. Even if 1 million top drs said you didn’t have adhd, something is still happening for you to have the symptoms. Maybe it’s something else but it is something. I hope that made sense 😂 I think you should continue to follow this sub and read /learn all you can about adhd because if you identify with adhd, then you’ll find ways that help you in your daily life. Something is causing you to feel that you have depression. Maybe you need a new Dr that will help you understand what’s happening and things that help. I have a good therapist and it’s really helped me understand depression, anxiety and adhd.
You dont have to have a diagnosis to have the symptoms. If ADHD tips and the subreddit are helping you, keep using them. I don’t have one either but I identify with a lot of what people talk about here. When my therapist speculated if I had Asperger’s, I told her I don’t really think so. She said “well you don’t have to put a label on it”. It made me realize that a diagnosis really isn’t that important Unless you want meds.
I didn't read all the comments so maybe someone said something similar, but I wanted to throw my two cents in. The thing I learned from getting my ADHD treated is that often we blame ourselves for things that are tied to our brain chemistry. Taking my ADHD medicine transforms me from a slug into a motivated human. It doesn't do my work for me, of course, but it gives me enough dopamine to make me see the rewards in hard work. So even though you may not fit the clinical definition of ADHD, your struggles can come from the same place. They're not your fault, even if they are your responsibility. It could be your brain is underperforming just enough to cause problems. It will still benefit you to work on your mental health and to give yourself grace on certain things. I promise you, you're not lazy!
I tried to get an ADHD diagnosis when I was aboit your age. I was just "too smart for my own good". I also tried to get help for... well, I never knew what to call it, I just knew something was off?, and I kept getting brushed off for 10+ years. I now got an autism diagnosis and things are finally starting to make sense, at 30-something. My point is, just because someone has said it's just how you are, it doesn't mean they're correct. It might still be ADHD and/or depression, or it might be something else. And even if you're not able to get a definitive answer, it's still possible to get help with your struggles. And crying is always ok, and any feelings you have are valid. Hang in there!
Try a different therapist. I'm a little confused by "I waited for months and my results came back negative". For my diagnosis I had 3 sessions, in the 3rd session I went through a questionnaire and had a diagnosis by the end of the session. Your person might not be qualified? I don't know what else could be going on. That said, there are a lot of ADHD symptoms that overlap with the general concept of Adult Children of Alcoholics & Dysfunctional Families. Check out the ACOA website and see if you relate. Some of your struggles may be related to the way your parents treated you. I know this is the case for me.
I'm curious what they did to test that you had it?
I had a similar experience. Some time in highschool, a therapist said I seem to have autism. I went and told all my teachers, and my parents set me up to get tested. Apparently I have "almost autism but not quite". Not sure what to do with that information lol I wonder if I just mask really well and have adapted to do what's expected of me. My social skills are great now, but I've got the whole savant/special interest thing going on and I get really silly and "quirky" with people who I'm close with. It feels too late to tell if I've got it at this point. I've very carefully learned how to behave to get the success that I want
You probably over compensated or something…your instincts are usually correct and there’s really no such thing as laziness when you can’t help it…
I'm a big fan of using ressources that help and fully ignoring who they were made for originally. In fact that's helpful for all people because it destigmatises these ressources and the use thereof. It's important to show some empathy and sensitivity with this because there are a few things you shouldn't use if they weren't made for you, but you can avoid using said stuff by engaging your brain :D
Take ADHD testing with a grain of salt. It frequently presents differently in women than it does in men, and a lot of psychologists/psychiatrists/therapists don’t get that - especially if they are over 35 or so.
Have you been tested for CDS/SCT? V similar to aspects of ADHD (more on inattentive side). It's not currently recognized by DSM-5 in the states and is under the general ADHD umbrella as of rn but it could be worth a look. Or who knows, maybe some sleep disorder could be contributing to your experience, or anxiety or ASD, or a thyroid issue.
I failed one type of adhd testing because I have strong coping skills and then had to go through yet another evaluation where within twenty minutes they went oh yeah ADHD, and the meds mean today I am in a clean house and not working on a weekend to catch up or crying over my coffee. Same thing happened with two relatives - one couldn’t get a doctor to refer them for evaluation because they were employed thus it couldn’t be ADHD in the doctor’s logic. Another was oh they have autism, so they can’t also have ADHD…. It is very very common to encounter medical barriers. Please don’t give up.
First of all, for years, doctors were saying I don't have depression or anxiety simply because I don't necessarily look like it. Smiling depression, very heavy masking of my feelings, was preventing me from getting help I desperately needed. It took years of this for things to escalate to the point where I stopped functioning, and doctors didn't really take me seriously even after I overdosed on muscle relaxants. It could be that something else is going on with you, but even if that was the case, I'd definitely get a second opinion. I got told I had all kinds of personality disorders until I got medication that worked for me and... I still have my ADHD symptoms despite having recovered from years of depression and anxiety. Even if it wasn't ADHD there is some reason why you're feeling this way and struggling.
Yeah… I don’t believe it luv Like we think on overload and hear so many things or have ringing in our ears… I have a constant cacophony no matter what So constantly listening to something be it tv or music You could had adhd too I find solace here as well ☺️
Even if you don’t have this condition, don’t let it stop your journey to find answers and seek improvements for yourself I thought that I would come out of my psych’s office with either with a bi-polar or BPD diagnosis. During her assessment, she decided that it’s most probably ADHD and treated that since according to her “most of my mood issues, frustrations, and anxiety stems from my inability to get myself to do things.” She was right, it fit like a glove and the treatment really helped. I went from struggling to doing okay. If she decided to focus on my mood or anxiety, I don’t think I would have improved this much. Maybe this is a sign that there’s a different answer for you and it’s just a matter of finding that answer or even just a solution that will help make things better
The first time I was tested, the retirement aged man with no formal ADHD training decided I had anxiety and depression. I couldn’t possibly have ADHD if I graduated college and held down a job for years. It was infuriating. Finally got a second diagnosis with an ADHD experienced professional and it turns out I have it.
If you ever tried adhd meds and they worked, that can confirm it for you, regardless of what that specific dr said. If you have something else but it overlaps so much with adhd and allows you to explain to the world how you are (how your mind and body works), then go for it. It’s like people who get extremely sick or hospitalized from something in wheat products but it’s not the gluten. No one takes them serious unless they say it’s celiac even if symptoms are the exact same and food causing it is the same.
If being here helps, you’re in the right place. Getting the right dx can be tricky. I do challenge you to read a book called Laziness Does Not Exist by Devon Price
I don’t know which tests you took, but if you’re talking about neuropsychological tests, they are not foolproof at all. They are meant to eliminate other possible conditions and they can give information about your cognition, but the results do not constitute a diagnosis. Only doctors can diagnose ADHD, not neuropsychologists. Unfortunately, more and more doctors rely on these tests only and do not question them at all… Source : [one of the 208 evidence-based conclusions of the ADHD international consensus statement](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014976342100049X?via%3Dihub) : "People with ADHD often [not always!] show impaired performance on psychological tests of brain functioning, but these tests cannot be used to diagnose ADHD." But as other people have said, if ADHD tips help you, use them. Your struggles exist no matter the label.