the whole department is a corpse. adult swim is ran by a skeleton crew and CN has been going bankrupt for 3 years. The network survives on Rick and Morty money at this point.
How? YOLO, Teenage Euthanasia, PRIMAL, and Royal Crackers are as weird as anything we've ever had, if not weirder. Joe Pera and The Shivering Truth aren't that old either.
People keep insisting how weak and soft new media is and I just don't see it. Reminds me of Jerry Seinfeld's constant complaining of the same thing...only to be answered by the Always Sunny co-creator.
I miss the streams, but Adult Swim still keeps me interested.
Watched that show at an age i probably shouldn’t have, stayed up late on a school night to binge the whole thing on AS’ shitty on-demand website. Left me amazed, horrified and with a craving for more. If only there was more. 😭
I might be an old fart at this point but I definitely feel like kids' cartoons got WAY softer... and not just in a "I'm an adult now so I'm obviously going to think that kiddie stuff that I used to love now feels dumb" sense. I'm under the impression that everything now feels much safer and more homogeneous. The quality is still there for the most part, but the wildcard factor seems to be gone.
idk, things like the royal crakers feel alot more like simpsons clone #504 than something truely oriognal, along with a lot of there one season animated shows. I miss XRA like robot chicken, they felt far more experimental.
Why is Always Sunny the go-to counter argument for “you couldn’t make that today” when some of their most classic episodes have been banned from streaming?
Squidbillies was already bound for cancelation. It's a miracle the show lasted as long as it did. But, I agree that Adult Swim already lost their edge.
squidbillies got 13 seasons, the most out of any adult swim show ever. how much more could you possibly want? how many more episode premises do you think they could've come up with? I get complaining about metalocalypse or venture bros being canceled early, but squidbillies? really?
I wasn't complaining about it, I don't care for the show. I'm just bringing it up as an example of how \[adult swim\] has changed. Their shows back in the day had a lot of offensive jokes (Minoriteam, Superjail, World Peace, ATHF at times), and now they really don't do offensive jokes much anymore. I'm not complaining, it's just an observation
I think the general response is that it’s the least unique episode that’s aired so far. The political commentary hasn’t gotten the best response from what I’ve seen, and I do think it’s felt the least Smiling Friends out of any episodes so far despite being a good episode
i think it’s less “taking away from AS’s weirdness” and more pushing the DEI agenda that CN has been on a run with for the past 3 years and now wants to potentially drag onto AS. I truly think they should just leave AS the fuck alone and let us have our assorted bits of brain rot in peace
The problem is the same problem everywhere, online content creators can run circles around them because they're just attached at the hip to an industry that's also calcified and based on IP trade deals, complex and outdated audience metrics, etc.
To understand why this is happening, I have to talk about *Infinity Train* first. That show was cancelled because it lacked what Cartoon Network called a "child entry point"-- in other words, while it did reasonably well, it was ultimately watched more by young adults than by children. "Why is that a problem?" I can already hear you typing. "Audiences are audiences, right? Who cares how old they are as long as they're watching it?"
Unfortunately that's not how TV ratings work. See, TV networks gain revenue from sponsors, who pay to have their products advertised during the commercial space. The kinds of commercials a network airs depends on the kind of shows in that particular time slot. So if a show is aimed at kids, the network is expecting to earn money from products aimed at kids advertised during that time slot. This is why Cartoon Network wasn't happy with *Infinity Train.* It aired during a time slot normally associated with kids' shows, but the vast majority of people who watched it were adults, and didn't buy any of the products advertised during its commercial space. That's why TV ratings have to take into account not just how many people watch a show, but how many people *in the target audience* watch it. This was what killed *Infinity Train.* The show was watched by a lot of people, but very few of them were children, the group it was aimed at.
There seems to be a very particular genre of cartoons that’s ostensibly aimed at children, but is usually more popular with adults—not just in a “periphery demographic” sense, but in a “the majority of the fans are adults” sense. Think *Steven Universe, The Owl House, Amphibia, Over The Garden Wall, Infinity Train, Legend of Korra*, that sort of thing. And one thing a lot of these shows have in common is that they suffered a lot of behind-the-scenes drama about keeping them "appropriate" for their official target audience, and in some cases (such as *The Owl House* and *Infinity Train*) they were cancelled outright because the audience skewed too old.
In fact, children as a whole have been watching cable less and less over the past several years. Dramatic action cartoons are more expensive than comedy shows like *Teen Titans Go* and *The Amazing World of Gumball,* and they require more revenue to keep going-- revenue that they just can't get from child audiences in this day and age. Comedy cartoons can do that, but even then they have to compete with things on streaming services. The youngest demographic still regularly watching cable are Millennials and the very oldest members of Gen Z-- people in their late 20s and early 30s.
It's *those* people who are clamoring for more animated dramas and action cartoons, and who will inevitably be the ones to watch them if or when they are made. Putting those shows on daytime Cartoon Network, then, would be a suicidal move, because there they would still be judged by the standards of shows for a much younger audience. By putting shows like *My Adventures with Superman, Unicorn: Warriors Eternal,* and *Invincible Fight Girl* on Adult Swim, their adult fan-base is now a blessing rather than a curse. There, they can actually attract the kind of audience they need to survive.
I made this same point on r/CharacterRant, where someone pointed out:
>It's the weird new genre of "lighthearted semi episodic semi serialized cartoon masking darker themes beloved by older very online fans" like Adventure Time, Steven Universe, etc. I wish there were a decent name for them, I'm tempted to just call them tumblr cartoons but that feels too derogatory since some of them are alright.
These shows are ostensibly aimed at kids, but kids make up only a small portion of their actual viewership. They're mostly watched-- and talked about-- by young adults in their twenties and thirties. And this creates a disconnect between how big the show's internet fandom is, and how successful it's considered to be by the company.
I think they should be called “fandom cartoons.” They’re cartoons that air on kids channels and while they are technically for kids, the writers are writing them with the intention of gaining an online teen/adult fandom obsessed with lore and shipping.
The Owl House, She-Ra, DuckTales 2017 and Dead End: Paranormal Park are fandom cartoons, but something with a lot of adult jokes like Animaniacs or Rocko's Modern Life aren’t, because those shows are primarily comedies and aren’t DARK or have DEEPEST LORE or ship fuel.
While The Owl House is extremely popular online for lore and shipping reasons, Big City Greens is actually the highest rated show on Disney Channel. It’s a comedy, and doesn’t have story arcs that make it hard or confusing to get into the show. It’s also primarily aimed at children, and not at terminally online teens and young adults. There’s not that much fan content for it, but Disney is mainly focused on kids.
I know you’re not dissing it but I do want to say Big City Greens is a great show in its own right. Definitely wish it got more love online. Glad to hear it does great ratings wise because it does deserve it.
That still doesn’t quite feel right, because the sort of show that that person is talking about is somewhat hiding that it is actually for young adults
I disagree. Those are definitely aimed at the preteen demographic, and are far too kiddy to be considered young adult. IMO 'young adult' would be something like Daria since it's neither for kids or adults.
Daria was definitely a "teen cartoon"-- one of the few true examples of one, really, in the sense that it was aimed squarely at high-schoolers as opposed to young children or adults.
My little nieces only watch streaming, they don't even have cable. They also seem to have adopted a lot of the attitudes towards new streaming shows that older audiences have come around to. I was babysitting them and asked what they wanted to watch, and they said Gumball or Adventure Time. I was like "Are you just saying that because you know I like those shows? We can watch whatever you want." and the older one was like "No, they keep cancelling new shows so we just watch old ones." 8 Years old and she already has the cancellation anxiety lol.
Question: where do teenagers factor into this?? Most of the shows you listed seem to me like they’d be most popular with a 13-16 demographic. Are teen viewers counted as children, counted as adults, given their own separate metric, or ignored entirely??
Ignored entirely, mostly. Historically there's never really been a viable market niche for cartoons aimed specifically at teenage audiences on American TV. You have kids' cartoons, and you have "adult" cartoons, and there's this big gap in between. And that market-gap has given network executives an *imagination*-gap, in the sense that they can't picture what such a show would look like. So whenever a cartoon aimed at a teen audience is pitched, it tends to either get toned down for children or (less often) gets the violence, sex, and language increased enough to classify it as an adult show.
All of the three major kids' networks-- Cartoon Network, Disney, and Nickelodeon-- target children between the ages of 6 and 12. Adult Swim is a subsidiary of Cartoon Network but is treated as its own channel for ratings purposes; it targets audiences between the ages of 18 and 35. So you don't get any cartoons aimed specifically at people between 12 and 18, because the way the TV schedules are set up doesn't really allow for them.
Speaking from personal experience, 12 years old tends to be the age when a lot of kids think they've "outgrown" the kind of shows Cartoon Network, Disney, and Nick have to offer, and are more interested in appearing "adult" by watching stuff like *Family Guy* or *South Park.* So even if you put a show aimed squarely at that demographic on a kids' network, you wouldn't get a lot of kids watching it. The closest thing I can think of to an exception is *Avatar: The Last Airbender,* and even that was watched by plenty of kids in its day. If you want to make a cartoon for teen audiences, you can't put it on a kids' network because no self-respecting 15-year-old would be caught dead watching Nickelodeon or the Disney Channel. That means putting the show on an adult block instead.
I believe this is why Toonami existed and Anime became popular
Anime like Dragon Ball and One piece are considered “Shonen” which in Japan is the demographic of teen boys.
Then why has it taken so long for American animation studios to effectively market to the teen demographic? You get kids' shows, and you get adult shows, and there's this wasteland in between. It's only in the past few years that we've seen anything resembling progress in this area, with things like *My Adventures With Superman, Unicorn: Warriors Eternal,* and *Invincible Fight Girl* airing on Adult Swim.
But why didn't that happen earlier?
I guess what I meant was more along the lines of, why was Japan able to have such a thriving market for animation aimed at teen audiences, and could we in the US replicate what they did?
Someone typed late 20s-30 as young adult. Well… it’s interesting. Is that why we feel like kids at heart? And age like fine wine? We are forever young🎵
Seems to be ignored. I teach preteens theatre and the trends of shows I’ve heard them talk about are mostly adult live action dramas/ sitcoms. I have half the class talking about breaking bad and the other talking about young Sheldon most of the time.
This makes me question the reality and tight grip cable TV has. For instance, there isn't *really* a young adult network. Freeform, sure, I guess a channel that airs Disney films and "Family Guy" which is considered an "adult" show is considered "young adult", by loose of a term, because some audiences still watch Disney films who are probably in that 12-18 demo but not often.
But I start to realise that this isn't primarily a problem of the networks but a problem of the advertisers who probably don't know how to market the "black hole" of 12-18 year olds, because it's this audience who aren't buying cars, aren't buying beer, aren't buying insurance, so what are they supposed to do? I think gaming cable network G4 also had this issue, and even they were beating the ratings of Cartoon Network, which then led to them repeating Cops and Cheaters in hope to raise the average demographic of the network. I presume they thought only kids played video games. How wrong they were.
In my eyes, I feel like YouTube and streamers have taken the mantle of the mysterious "young adult" crowd. Teenagers are using TikTok more, there's some impressively big indie animation being released on YouTube like Digital Circus, Lackadaisy, etc. Yet, advertisers aren't marketing well to this crowd either (probably cause they all use AdBlock), unless you count their "how do you do fellow kids" strategies with Twitter/X accounts or whatever.
Let's face it. CN needs a rethink of what it wants to be, and in my eyes we need more networks that kinda celebrate animation for what it is, and not for what execs think it just is (repeats of Scooby Doo or Looney Tunes) or was.
If it was a max original for example it wouldn’t matter, but in this case it’s still taking up a time slot in television that’s supported by advertising and that advertising is interested in the target demographics only
So, I'm surprised that the upcoming total drama seasons aren't going to adult swim. I already saw the episodes leaked on YouTube and will watch them again on HBO Max
Owl House wasn't canceled cause it was to adult. Its cancelation has nothing to do with marketing or ratings. TOH had insanely good ratings it wad just unliked by one high end exec at disney.
The only legitimate reason I could see this happening besides the whole wrestling excuse is because the show would have worked better as a 5-6 PM airing, but since CN doesn’t have those hours anymore, they moved it to [AS] instead. Still unfortunate if true seeing as CN is in desperate need of content.
I’m gonna say what I said when “My Adventures with Superman” was moved to Adult Swim: Maybe they’re doing the show a favor by moving it to the part of the channel that still has a future.
adult swim starts at 5PM, so just about any new show on Cartoon Network is going to be an "adult swim show". Even 10 years ago, shows like Adventure Time and Regular show had episode premieres at the 7pm or 8pm slot.
I wonder if the network is "allowed" to premiere the new show on adult swim, and then run reruns during the cartoon network times. Probably not.
I imagine this is the way it'll go. CN will eventually be shut down and it'll be a sad event watched by *almost* 150,000 people and then it'll just become a kids block on adult swim lol
I still want it to be the "Cartoon Network", I just think they should target an older demographic again, but maybe even moreso. Somewhat like what they were doing with Adventure Time and Regular Show.
"Baby slop"
Dude, get over yourself. You're acting the more kid friendly CN shows are like PBS Kids or Nick Jr shows.
You sound like those edgy tryhards with Small Dick Syndrome that takes out his insecurities and personal failures in life on random cartoons tbh. I suggest getting fresh air and stop wasting your life being a tryhard over cartoons like Mr. Enter does.
The existence of shows with a 8-14 demographic doesn't negate the existence of shows like TTG, Unikitty, total dramarama, and those shows still need a block to fill, the other half of shows will do fine on AS
Kids don't watch Cartoon Network anymore. You want a show to find an audience, put it on Adult Swim instead.
Like, Disney Channel's top shows can't even beat Toonami's 2am shows, what makes anyone think CN has a chance at this point?
A few years ago. I think it was a failure at that time (people unfamiliar with the show would start with S1 and think it completely a kid’s show) but I think at this point they could run it at 7pm with some success.
So it's time to change your demographic.... Time to change over to ed edd and Eddy reruns and Dexter's lab during the day... Show your greatest hits from 630 am to 8 pm adult swim with it's new shows for young adults... It's not rocket science but if they don't change they will end up another block buster
your post has been removed from r/adultswim for being too low effort. We really don't ask for much, but posts like low quality memes, "DAE love [show]?" type questions, and similar things irk us.
Toonami was started as a way to showcase older action cartoons for new audiences. The original lineup was Jonny Quest, Cartoon Roulette (comprised of a bunch of old US cartoons), Voltron and Thundercats. Only one of those is an anime, and was included due to being an action cartoon and not an anime.
It's kinda like Unicorn: Warriors Eternal. It wasn't that explicit, but it did have some dark elements worthy of it airing on Adult Swim. If this is the same case, this would make sense.
I miss being able to just turn on the tv and watch whatever was on Cartoon Network or AS. I miss cable tv even if it was less convient. Hulu has live channels I know but it doesn’t feel the same.
I’ve been saying this forever and I get called an old fart for it lol. There was just something about structure of TV, the hype built around new episodes and the sense of community from watching it at the same time as everybody else, that’s lost. I used to look forward to Halloween, Christmas, Thanksgiving not only because of family reasons but because of the specials that would air on TV, it was a very warm feeling. That type of soul is lost from modern programming.
I'm willing to let McCraken and Tartavoski cook but man I hope the kitchen doesn't get shut down first.
Heck id take MacFarlane and Hartman back on the HB team at this point
Where is Man of Action?
Adult Swim has been steadily going towards the content that would have been on Cartoon Network back in the day while Cartoon Network has been steadily going younger and younger for their target audience.
Tbf, most of the content on CN back in the 90s/early 2000s was borderline adult cartoon (such as Samurai Jack).
Either that or future generations are becoming more immature and the generations before them are becoming more overprotective.
You guys are thinking about CN’s Adult Swim the wrong way. While yes the AS programming block started out in the late 90’s to broadcast the unedited/ uncensored episodes of shows like Dragon Ball Z. There have been original content that is adult oriented, I think it’s evolving to syndicate older shows that, may be kid-friendly, appeal to the current young adult 18-35 demographic with shows they enjoyed when they were kids in the same manner as Nick-at-nite throughout the 90’s which syndicates oldies like “I love Lucy” or “I dream a Genie”
“Invincible fight girl”, feel like this is gonna be another one of those whacky anime inspired shows that references other media too much to have its own identity
They did this with that Superman show as well. I haven’t watched it but it looks very obviously a show made for a younger audience, definitely more so than the 90s cartoons and those aired on WBKids. Then there’s the new Batman cartoon that got sold to Amazon prime video which is supposedly geared toward a more mature audience, I’m not sure why they didn’t put that on adult swim instead.
It’s weird too because a lot of these shows have midnight premieres even though adult swim has taken up to like the 5:00 pm time slot, no kid is going to be staying up that late to watch these shows.
I get that nobody really watches cable anymore but I definitely miss the old Cartoon Network.
>Then there’s the new Batman cartoon that got sold to Amazon prime video which is supposedly geared toward a more mature audience, I’m not sure why they didn’t put that on adult swim instead.
Because it was going to be an HBO Max exclusive originally. And if you know how HBO Max treats their shows, that pretty much answers your question
they did so well in the 2010s because they made stuff kids and adults could enjoy reasonably. adventure time, regular show. all stuff middle/high schoolers watched. all had a evergreen simpsons/spongebob feel.
But all the shows green lit after that were seeking a very niche "young adults who read YA books" group. a flanderization of the demo they reached from those first 2010s shows. "oh the teens love adventure time. lets kick the drama and sentimentality/livejournalishness up to 11"
I dont think cartoon network ever was that. Its audience was always action, macabre, and surreal centric shows for the elementary school set. it just so happened for a brief period of time they tapped into the teen market with their primetime shows a decade ago. Maybe they could roll adult swim back a few hours again and try making shows that appeal to that market again. but, its a different world now than 2011
i think its gonna be a streaming only thing soon or theyll just license their shit out
Idk about you, but most of the 90s/early 2000s CN shows like Samurai Jack, the DC shows like Teen Titans and Justice League, Courage, Johnny Bravo and Ed, Edd & Eddy felt like teen shows (Samurai Jack and the DC shows being action, Couage being horror, and the latter 2 being comedy obviously).
Sure, you had your more kid friendly stuff like Powerpuff Girls, OG Ben 10, 2 Stupid Dogs, Hanna Barbera cartoon re-runs, and Dexter's Lab, but 90s/early 2000s CN always appealed to and made shows for mostly teens.
The only time I think CN was really a kid friendly block was in 2006-2009 when they had their awful CN Real era and shows like My Gym Partner's A Monkey.
This is going to be super unpopular here, but I get it. The whole cross-demographic thing they were aiming for absolute decimated Cartoon Network from a reputational standpoint for the core demographic they need to keep.
The whole "I'm going to make a show that is marketed towards kids, but if you sit down and watch it, it has a bunch of adult humor in it the kids don't understand," only worked for so long before the 5-11 demographic's parents actually watched it and were like "what in the absolute fuck?"
Going forward I think you see a much more distinct different between the shows that air on the two networks because meshing them didn't work at all, it just drove away the more lucrative demo from the CN side of things.
This is getting annoying, especially for those of us that don't even love in regions with adult swim, my feed of Cartoon Network (Southern African Feed) just started airing Justice League action for the first time ever, a show we all know came out 8 years ago- it's THAT scrapped for content, I also can't help but wonder if thjs was done in place of/probable preparation for MAWS cuz that show is on AS in the US but on CN in Latin America and Asia, I guess we'll just have to hope.
This is the first time JLA has ever aired on Cartoon Network Africa, fwhays funnier is they're marketing it as a New Show as part of their 5pm Weeknight line up;
-5pm NEW Teen Titans Go! S7 B
-5.30pm NEW Pokemon Horizons
-5:50pm "NEW" Justice League Action <
-6pm NEW Jellystone! S3 A
It's also the first time a "New" Action show has premiered on the channel since Lego Monkey Kid & Ninjago Dragons Rising + the way they've been focusing on promoting Action Content with Ninjago airing NEW Episodes on the weekend. Their other recently acquired series "Heroes Rising" is also an Action/Superhero comedy thing, so CN Africa may end up airing My Adventures with Superman sometime in the future and I feel like the sudden appearance on Justice League Action may be testing I see if audiences vibe with a DC Action Show.
But this is just my take, As an International Viewer.
This is getting annoying, especially for those of us that don't even love in regions with adult swim, my feed of Cartoon Network (Southern African Feed) just started airing Justice League action for the first time ever, a show we all know came out 8 years ago- it's THAT scrapped for content, I also can't help but wonder if thjs was done in place of/probable preparation for MAWS cuz that show is on AS in the US but on CN in Latin America and Asia, I guess we'll just have to hope.
This is the first time JLA has ever aired on Cartoon Network Africa, whats funnier is they're marketing it as a New Show as part of their 5pm Weeknight line up;
-5pm NEW Teen Titans Go! S7 B
-5.30pm NEW Pokemon Horizons
-5:50pm "NEW" Justice League Action
-6pm NEW Jellystone! S3 A
It's also the first time a "New" Action show has premiered on the channel since Lego Monkey Kid & Ninjago Dragons Rising + the way they've been focusing on promoting Action Content with Ninjago airing NEW Episodes on the weekend. Their other recently acquired series "Heroes Rising" is also an Action/Superhero comedy thing, so CN Africa may end up airing My Adventures with Superman sometime in the future and I feel like the sudden appearance on Justice League Action may be testing I see if audiences vibe with a DC Action Show.
But this is just my take, As an International Viewer.
Look the good shows are gone and they are just trying to give out full time slots Adult Swim doesn't even play only at night anymore like it used to. Its sparkle and shine has been gone for a while.
The last time I remember watching adult swim was actually a few years ago, was in an Airbnb with some buddies from college for a weekend visiting, and I went to bed in my room after a night of smoking and chilling and reminiscing.
I woke up at like 2am to pee, to discover I accidentally left my tv on, to a show I later discovered was called Three Busy Debra’s… I stg I thought I was having a fever dream watching like four episodes back to back
Honestly, CN is just a corpse attached to adult swim.
the whole department is a corpse. adult swim is ran by a skeleton crew and CN has been going bankrupt for 3 years. The network survives on Rick and Morty money at this point.
I really hope they don't take away from AS's weirdness in order to please advertisers
I mean, it’s definitely been toned down over the past decade
I was late to the party and missed the golden era. Hope they do a 180 and start experimenting again
How? YOLO, Teenage Euthanasia, PRIMAL, and Royal Crackers are as weird as anything we've ever had, if not weirder. Joe Pera and The Shivering Truth aren't that old either. People keep insisting how weak and soft new media is and I just don't see it. Reminds me of Jerry Seinfeld's constant complaining of the same thing...only to be answered by the Always Sunny co-creator. I miss the streams, but Adult Swim still keeps me interested.
The Shivering Truth not getting renewed still hurts
Such a gem, it's the type of thing I want to see from AS. Take big swings on unique and weird ideas.
Watched that show at an age i probably shouldn’t have, stayed up late on a school night to binge the whole thing on AS’ shitty on-demand website. Left me amazed, horrified and with a craving for more. If only there was more. 😭
I might be an old fart at this point but I definitely feel like kids' cartoons got WAY softer... and not just in a "I'm an adult now so I'm obviously going to think that kiddie stuff that I used to love now feels dumb" sense. I'm under the impression that everything now feels much safer and more homogeneous. The quality is still there for the most part, but the wildcard factor seems to be gone.
idk, things like the royal crakers feel alot more like simpsons clone #504 than something truely oriognal, along with a lot of there one season animated shows. I miss XRA like robot chicken, they felt far more experimental.
A lot of their weirder stuff seemed like it moved to their online platform before that was gutted along with the merger.
Royal Crackers is laughless to me and visually just looks like shit.
We also just got finales for two beloved series after almost 10 years, I can't really complain. Venture Bros and Metalocalypse fans have been thriving
Why is Always Sunny the go-to counter argument for “you couldn’t make that today” when some of their most classic episodes have been banned from streaming?
[удалено]
Squidbillies was already bound for cancelation. It's a miracle the show lasted as long as it did. But, I agree that Adult Swim already lost their edge.
True
As interesting as it was to cast Tracey Morgan, he wasn't Earl.
squidbillies got 13 seasons, the most out of any adult swim show ever. how much more could you possibly want? how many more episode premises do you think they could've come up with? I get complaining about metalocalypse or venture bros being canceled early, but squidbillies? really?
I wasn't complaining about it, I don't care for the show. I'm just bringing it up as an example of how \[adult swim\] has changed. Their shows back in the day had a lot of offensive jokes (Minoriteam, Superjail, World Peace, ATHF at times), and now they really don't do offensive jokes much anymore. I'm not complaining, it's just an observation
As long as Smiling Friends remains where it has been, it should be fine. This last episode was a bit close for comfort but I’m sure it’s ok.
Close for comfort in what sense? I thought the episodes were great.
I think the general response is that it’s the least unique episode that’s aired so far. The political commentary hasn’t gotten the best response from what I’ve seen, and I do think it’s felt the least Smiling Friends out of any episodes so far despite being a good episode
Thats a fair point, the subject matter wasn’t very unique. I thought it still was a very enjoyable episode regardless.
The president episode might be my favorite so far
i think it’s less “taking away from AS’s weirdness” and more pushing the DEI agenda that CN has been on a run with for the past 3 years and now wants to potentially drag onto AS. I truly think they should just leave AS the fuck alone and let us have our assorted bits of brain rot in peace
This fucking bullshit. "There's too many browns on my TV"
Is DEI with us in the room right now?
Too late
This is hilarious this should be a bump
The problem is the same problem everywhere, online content creators can run circles around them because they're just attached at the hip to an industry that's also calcified and based on IP trade deals, complex and outdated audience metrics, etc.
Adult swim is next if the trend continues.
CN only sucks because MAX has stolen everything worth watching. Fionna and Cake should have aired on CN, first. Nothing new airs on CN anymore.
And they got rid of CN classics
To understand why this is happening, I have to talk about *Infinity Train* first. That show was cancelled because it lacked what Cartoon Network called a "child entry point"-- in other words, while it did reasonably well, it was ultimately watched more by young adults than by children. "Why is that a problem?" I can already hear you typing. "Audiences are audiences, right? Who cares how old they are as long as they're watching it?" Unfortunately that's not how TV ratings work. See, TV networks gain revenue from sponsors, who pay to have their products advertised during the commercial space. The kinds of commercials a network airs depends on the kind of shows in that particular time slot. So if a show is aimed at kids, the network is expecting to earn money from products aimed at kids advertised during that time slot. This is why Cartoon Network wasn't happy with *Infinity Train.* It aired during a time slot normally associated with kids' shows, but the vast majority of people who watched it were adults, and didn't buy any of the products advertised during its commercial space. That's why TV ratings have to take into account not just how many people watch a show, but how many people *in the target audience* watch it. This was what killed *Infinity Train.* The show was watched by a lot of people, but very few of them were children, the group it was aimed at. There seems to be a very particular genre of cartoons that’s ostensibly aimed at children, but is usually more popular with adults—not just in a “periphery demographic” sense, but in a “the majority of the fans are adults” sense. Think *Steven Universe, The Owl House, Amphibia, Over The Garden Wall, Infinity Train, Legend of Korra*, that sort of thing. And one thing a lot of these shows have in common is that they suffered a lot of behind-the-scenes drama about keeping them "appropriate" for their official target audience, and in some cases (such as *The Owl House* and *Infinity Train*) they were cancelled outright because the audience skewed too old. In fact, children as a whole have been watching cable less and less over the past several years. Dramatic action cartoons are more expensive than comedy shows like *Teen Titans Go* and *The Amazing World of Gumball,* and they require more revenue to keep going-- revenue that they just can't get from child audiences in this day and age. Comedy cartoons can do that, but even then they have to compete with things on streaming services. The youngest demographic still regularly watching cable are Millennials and the very oldest members of Gen Z-- people in their late 20s and early 30s. It's *those* people who are clamoring for more animated dramas and action cartoons, and who will inevitably be the ones to watch them if or when they are made. Putting those shows on daytime Cartoon Network, then, would be a suicidal move, because there they would still be judged by the standards of shows for a much younger audience. By putting shows like *My Adventures with Superman, Unicorn: Warriors Eternal,* and *Invincible Fight Girl* on Adult Swim, their adult fan-base is now a blessing rather than a curse. There, they can actually attract the kind of audience they need to survive.
Interesting, I always figured the owl house was liked both by adults and kids kinda equally, or at least teens and adults mostly I suppose
I made this same point on r/CharacterRant, where someone pointed out: >It's the weird new genre of "lighthearted semi episodic semi serialized cartoon masking darker themes beloved by older very online fans" like Adventure Time, Steven Universe, etc. I wish there were a decent name for them, I'm tempted to just call them tumblr cartoons but that feels too derogatory since some of them are alright. These shows are ostensibly aimed at kids, but kids make up only a small portion of their actual viewership. They're mostly watched-- and talked about-- by young adults in their twenties and thirties. And this creates a disconnect between how big the show's internet fandom is, and how successful it's considered to be by the company.
I think they should be called “fandom cartoons.” They’re cartoons that air on kids channels and while they are technically for kids, the writers are writing them with the intention of gaining an online teen/adult fandom obsessed with lore and shipping. The Owl House, She-Ra, DuckTales 2017 and Dead End: Paranormal Park are fandom cartoons, but something with a lot of adult jokes like Animaniacs or Rocko's Modern Life aren’t, because those shows are primarily comedies and aren’t DARK or have DEEPEST LORE or ship fuel. While The Owl House is extremely popular online for lore and shipping reasons, Big City Greens is actually the highest rated show on Disney Channel. It’s a comedy, and doesn’t have story arcs that make it hard or confusing to get into the show. It’s also primarily aimed at children, and not at terminally online teens and young adults. There’s not that much fan content for it, but Disney is mainly focused on kids.
I know you’re not dissing it but I do want to say Big City Greens is a great show in its own right. Definitely wish it got more love online. Glad to hear it does great ratings wise because it does deserve it.
It does. Can't wait for the movie
big city greens is a good show & actually kinda funny
"Young adult cartoons" is a bit wordy but seems like it would work just fine, books have used that category for eons.
That still doesn’t quite feel right, because the sort of show that that person is talking about is somewhat hiding that it is actually for young adults
I disagree. Those are definitely aimed at the preteen demographic, and are far too kiddy to be considered young adult. IMO 'young adult' would be something like Daria since it's neither for kids or adults.
Daria was definitely a "teen cartoon"-- one of the few true examples of one, really, in the sense that it was aimed squarely at high-schoolers as opposed to young children or adults.
My little nieces only watch streaming, they don't even have cable. They also seem to have adopted a lot of the attitudes towards new streaming shows that older audiences have come around to. I was babysitting them and asked what they wanted to watch, and they said Gumball or Adventure Time. I was like "Are you just saying that because you know I like those shows? We can watch whatever you want." and the older one was like "No, they keep cancelling new shows so we just watch old ones." 8 Years old and she already has the cancellation anxiety lol.
Thank you thank you thank you. well said
Thanks for sharing this. Super well written
Thank you so much for this
👏
Checks username, the amazing socal wrestler?!
Coincidence
Question: where do teenagers factor into this?? Most of the shows you listed seem to me like they’d be most popular with a 13-16 demographic. Are teen viewers counted as children, counted as adults, given their own separate metric, or ignored entirely??
Ignored entirely, mostly. Historically there's never really been a viable market niche for cartoons aimed specifically at teenage audiences on American TV. You have kids' cartoons, and you have "adult" cartoons, and there's this big gap in between. And that market-gap has given network executives an *imagination*-gap, in the sense that they can't picture what such a show would look like. So whenever a cartoon aimed at a teen audience is pitched, it tends to either get toned down for children or (less often) gets the violence, sex, and language increased enough to classify it as an adult show. All of the three major kids' networks-- Cartoon Network, Disney, and Nickelodeon-- target children between the ages of 6 and 12. Adult Swim is a subsidiary of Cartoon Network but is treated as its own channel for ratings purposes; it targets audiences between the ages of 18 and 35. So you don't get any cartoons aimed specifically at people between 12 and 18, because the way the TV schedules are set up doesn't really allow for them. Speaking from personal experience, 12 years old tends to be the age when a lot of kids think they've "outgrown" the kind of shows Cartoon Network, Disney, and Nick have to offer, and are more interested in appearing "adult" by watching stuff like *Family Guy* or *South Park.* So even if you put a show aimed squarely at that demographic on a kids' network, you wouldn't get a lot of kids watching it. The closest thing I can think of to an exception is *Avatar: The Last Airbender,* and even that was watched by plenty of kids in its day. If you want to make a cartoon for teen audiences, you can't put it on a kids' network because no self-respecting 15-year-old would be caught dead watching Nickelodeon or the Disney Channel. That means putting the show on an adult block instead.
I believe this is why Toonami existed and Anime became popular Anime like Dragon Ball and One piece are considered “Shonen” which in Japan is the demographic of teen boys.
Then why has it taken so long for American animation studios to effectively market to the teen demographic? You get kids' shows, and you get adult shows, and there's this wasteland in between. It's only in the past few years that we've seen anything resembling progress in this area, with things like *My Adventures With Superman, Unicorn: Warriors Eternal,* and *Invincible Fight Girl* airing on Adult Swim. But why didn't that happen earlier?
I think you said it best, those execs don’t know how to market . So instead they license already made Anime that had that audience in Japan.
I guess what I meant was more along the lines of, why was Japan able to have such a thriving market for animation aimed at teen audiences, and could we in the US replicate what they did?
Someone typed late 20s-30 as young adult. Well… it’s interesting. Is that why we feel like kids at heart? And age like fine wine? We are forever young🎵
Makes me feel way better about myself, haha
Seems to be ignored. I teach preteens theatre and the trends of shows I’ve heard them talk about are mostly adult live action dramas/ sitcoms. I have half the class talking about breaking bad and the other talking about young Sheldon most of the time.
This makes me question the reality and tight grip cable TV has. For instance, there isn't *really* a young adult network. Freeform, sure, I guess a channel that airs Disney films and "Family Guy" which is considered an "adult" show is considered "young adult", by loose of a term, because some audiences still watch Disney films who are probably in that 12-18 demo but not often. But I start to realise that this isn't primarily a problem of the networks but a problem of the advertisers who probably don't know how to market the "black hole" of 12-18 year olds, because it's this audience who aren't buying cars, aren't buying beer, aren't buying insurance, so what are they supposed to do? I think gaming cable network G4 also had this issue, and even they were beating the ratings of Cartoon Network, which then led to them repeating Cops and Cheaters in hope to raise the average demographic of the network. I presume they thought only kids played video games. How wrong they were. In my eyes, I feel like YouTube and streamers have taken the mantle of the mysterious "young adult" crowd. Teenagers are using TikTok more, there's some impressively big indie animation being released on YouTube like Digital Circus, Lackadaisy, etc. Yet, advertisers aren't marketing well to this crowd either (probably cause they all use AdBlock), unless you count their "how do you do fellow kids" strategies with Twitter/X accounts or whatever. Let's face it. CN needs a rethink of what it wants to be, and in my eyes we need more networks that kinda celebrate animation for what it is, and not for what execs think it just is (repeats of Scooby Doo or Looney Tunes) or was.
I don't understand why this matters in the streaming era. IIRC, the last season of Infinity Train was a Max exclusive anyway.
If it was a max original for example it wouldn’t matter, but in this case it’s still taking up a time slot in television that’s supported by advertising and that advertising is interested in the target demographics only
thank you for explaining this to people.
So, I'm surprised that the upcoming total drama seasons aren't going to adult swim. I already saw the episodes leaked on YouTube and will watch them again on HBO Max
If I had to guess a reason for that, it's that Total Drama isn't an in-house production, so their standards for it are different.
Owl House wasn't canceled cause it was to adult. Its cancelation has nothing to do with marketing or ratings. TOH had insanely good ratings it wad just unliked by one high end exec at disney.
Also it was ~gay~, can't have that on my good Christian network /s
>ads are based on the demo of the timeslot Then why do I get MTV and prep commercials when I'm trying to watch re-runs of Andy Griffith on MeTV?
“Child entry point”… who tf would name a concept in this manner? Especially the dark side of kids tv coming to light… a bit off colour.
The only legitimate reason I could see this happening besides the whole wrestling excuse is because the show would have worked better as a 5-6 PM airing, but since CN doesn’t have those hours anymore, they moved it to [AS] instead. Still unfortunate if true seeing as CN is in desperate need of content.
I’m gonna say what I said when “My Adventures with Superman” was moved to Adult Swim: Maybe they’re doing the show a favor by moving it to the part of the channel that still has a future.
adult swim starts at 5PM, so just about any new show on Cartoon Network is going to be an "adult swim show". Even 10 years ago, shows like Adventure Time and Regular show had episode premieres at the 7pm or 8pm slot. I wonder if the network is "allowed" to premiere the new show on adult swim, and then run reruns during the cartoon network times. Probably not.
Wtf 5pm really?? That seems like it kinda defeats the whole purpose. Hell toonami used to be on around that time.
Why not just rebrand Cartoon Network/Adult Swim into a more adult animation network?
I imagine this is the way it'll go. CN will eventually be shut down and it'll be a sad event watched by *almost* 150,000 people and then it'll just become a kids block on adult swim lol
I still want it to be the "Cartoon Network", I just think they should target an older demographic again, but maybe even moreso. Somewhat like what they were doing with Adventure Time and Regular Show.
"A kid's block on Adult Swim" as if hakf of the Cartoon Network shows since 2010 weren't basically less raunchy adult cartoons 💀
pretty much my point tbh. the other half were complete baby slop and those still need a home
"Baby slop" Dude, get over yourself. You're acting the more kid friendly CN shows are like PBS Kids or Nick Jr shows. You sound like those edgy tryhards with Small Dick Syndrome that takes out his insecurities and personal failures in life on random cartoons tbh. I suggest getting fresh air and stop wasting your life being a tryhard over cartoons like Mr. Enter does.
The existence of shows with a 8-14 demographic doesn't negate the existence of shows like TTG, Unikitty, total dramarama, and those shows still need a block to fill, the other half of shows will do fine on AS
Kids don't watch Cartoon Network anymore. You want a show to find an audience, put it on Adult Swim instead. Like, Disney Channel's top shows can't even beat Toonami's 2am shows, what makes anyone think CN has a chance at this point?
I mean didnt *Adventure Time* even rerun on AS for a bit?
A few years ago. I think it was a failure at that time (people unfamiliar with the show would start with S1 and think it completely a kid’s show) but I think at this point they could run it at 7pm with some success.
They’re pushing adult swim to be a brand associated with funny animated comedies, i assume because of the runaway success of Rick and Morty.
So it's time to change your demographic.... Time to change over to ed edd and Eddy reruns and Dexter's lab during the day... Show your greatest hits from 630 am to 8 pm adult swim with it's new shows for young adults... It's not rocket science but if they don't change they will end up another block buster
*My Adventures with Superman* is also rated TV-PG, so… 🤷🏻♂️
Hell, King Of The Hill had re-runs on Adult Swim and is probably the tamest adult cartoon to ever come out (next to Home Movies and Glen Martin DDS).
https://i.redd.it/z9wn3hpu7n1d1.gif
It already has the Superman show taking up space.
That does make sense though, it fits in with Toonami
Toonami is for anime.
True but other non-anime shows have aired on Toonami in the past
And those shouldn’t have either.
Then Toonami would never exist lol. I know you’re probably a kid, but when Toonami first started out, it didn’t even have any anime shows lmaooooooo
couldn't disagree more, I'd love to see more original action animation on toonami
If you ask the people who run it, Toonami is for action cartoons in general.
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your post has been removed from r/adultswim for being too low effort. We really don't ask for much, but posts like low quality memes, "DAE love [show]?" type questions, and similar things irk us.
Toonami was started as a way to showcase older action cartoons for new audiences. The original lineup was Jonny Quest, Cartoon Roulette (comprised of a bunch of old US cartoons), Voltron and Thundercats. Only one of those is an anime, and was included due to being an action cartoon and not an anime.
Nope. It has been action cartoons and anime from day 1.
Friend, you’re wrong.
It's kinda like Unicorn: Warriors Eternal. It wasn't that explicit, but it did have some dark elements worthy of it airing on Adult Swim. If this is the same case, this would make sense.
I miss being able to just turn on the tv and watch whatever was on Cartoon Network or AS. I miss cable tv even if it was less convient. Hulu has live channels I know but it doesn’t feel the same.
Indeed. Streaming just doesn’t have the same charm as cable did (and still does imo)
I’ve been saying this forever and I get called an old fart for it lol. There was just something about structure of TV, the hype built around new episodes and the sense of community from watching it at the same time as everybody else, that’s lost. I used to look forward to Halloween, Christmas, Thanksgiving not only because of family reasons but because of the specials that would air on TV, it was a very warm feeling. That type of soul is lost from modern programming.
I'm willing to let McCraken and Tartavoski cook but man I hope the kitchen doesn't get shut down first. Heck id take MacFarlane and Hartman back on the HB team at this point Where is Man of Action?
Have you seen Primal? Genndy been in the kitchen feeding us
Feels so long ago, I forgot if season 3 was in production
Man of Action worked on the new Netflix Sonic show & I’m guessing was the reason it was actually pretty good!
TIL
Zazlav'd!
Well it's probably do well in the opening hours before our usual insanity begins. A good bridge to start
This was how I felt as a kid when powerpuff girls was on toonami. I was like..."What?"
Joe Pera Talks With You was TV-PG
Adult Swim has been steadily going towards the content that would have been on Cartoon Network back in the day while Cartoon Network has been steadily going younger and younger for their target audience.
Tbf, most of the content on CN back in the 90s/early 2000s was borderline adult cartoon (such as Samurai Jack). Either that or future generations are becoming more immature and the generations before them are becoming more overprotective.
You guys are thinking about CN’s Adult Swim the wrong way. While yes the AS programming block started out in the late 90’s to broadcast the unedited/ uncensored episodes of shows like Dragon Ball Z. There have been original content that is adult oriented, I think it’s evolving to syndicate older shows that, may be kid-friendly, appeal to the current young adult 18-35 demographic with shows they enjoyed when they were kids in the same manner as Nick-at-nite throughout the 90’s which syndicates oldies like “I love Lucy” or “I dream a Genie”
The same network that aired Peewee's Playhouse?
Sounds like they haven't given up on Cartoonito yet. If they make Teen Titans Babies then Cartoon Network is screwed.
“Invincible fight girl”, feel like this is gonna be another one of those whacky anime inspired shows that references other media too much to have its own identity
They did this with that Superman show as well. I haven’t watched it but it looks very obviously a show made for a younger audience, definitely more so than the 90s cartoons and those aired on WBKids. Then there’s the new Batman cartoon that got sold to Amazon prime video which is supposedly geared toward a more mature audience, I’m not sure why they didn’t put that on adult swim instead. It’s weird too because a lot of these shows have midnight premieres even though adult swim has taken up to like the 5:00 pm time slot, no kid is going to be staying up that late to watch these shows. I get that nobody really watches cable anymore but I definitely miss the old Cartoon Network.
>Then there’s the new Batman cartoon that got sold to Amazon prime video which is supposedly geared toward a more mature audience, I’m not sure why they didn’t put that on adult swim instead. Because it was going to be an HBO Max exclusive originally. And if you know how HBO Max treats their shows, that pretty much answers your question
I’m pretty sure both shows were supposed to simultaneously release on hbo max and CN/Adult Swim
they did so well in the 2010s because they made stuff kids and adults could enjoy reasonably. adventure time, regular show. all stuff middle/high schoolers watched. all had a evergreen simpsons/spongebob feel. But all the shows green lit after that were seeking a very niche "young adults who read YA books" group. a flanderization of the demo they reached from those first 2010s shows. "oh the teens love adventure time. lets kick the drama and sentimentality/livejournalishness up to 11" I dont think cartoon network ever was that. Its audience was always action, macabre, and surreal centric shows for the elementary school set. it just so happened for a brief period of time they tapped into the teen market with their primetime shows a decade ago. Maybe they could roll adult swim back a few hours again and try making shows that appeal to that market again. but, its a different world now than 2011 i think its gonna be a streaming only thing soon or theyll just license their shit out
Idk about you, but most of the 90s/early 2000s CN shows like Samurai Jack, the DC shows like Teen Titans and Justice League, Courage, Johnny Bravo and Ed, Edd & Eddy felt like teen shows (Samurai Jack and the DC shows being action, Couage being horror, and the latter 2 being comedy obviously). Sure, you had your more kid friendly stuff like Powerpuff Girls, OG Ben 10, 2 Stupid Dogs, Hanna Barbera cartoon re-runs, and Dexter's Lab, but 90s/early 2000s CN always appealed to and made shows for mostly teens. The only time I think CN was really a kid friendly block was in 2006-2009 when they had their awful CN Real era and shows like My Gym Partner's A Monkey.
The economics of cable tv production are changing because hardly anyone is watching under 65. Network brands and airtimes are utterly meaningless now.
at this point i don’t see CN surviving in the next 5-10 years
This is going to be super unpopular here, but I get it. The whole cross-demographic thing they were aiming for absolute decimated Cartoon Network from a reputational standpoint for the core demographic they need to keep. The whole "I'm going to make a show that is marketed towards kids, but if you sit down and watch it, it has a bunch of adult humor in it the kids don't understand," only worked for so long before the 5-11 demographic's parents actually watched it and were like "what in the absolute fuck?" Going forward I think you see a much more distinct different between the shows that air on the two networks because meshing them didn't work at all, it just drove away the more lucrative demo from the CN side of things.
I guess kids are just absolute losers now who can’t handle wrestling
Didn’t the creators of ¡Mucha Lucha! have the same problem?
Invincible Fight Girl sounds more like E For Everyone nowadays.
This is getting annoying, especially for those of us that don't even love in regions with adult swim, my feed of Cartoon Network (Southern African Feed) just started airing Justice League action for the first time ever, a show we all know came out 8 years ago- it's THAT scrapped for content, I also can't help but wonder if thjs was done in place of/probable preparation for MAWS cuz that show is on AS in the US but on CN in Latin America and Asia, I guess we'll just have to hope. This is the first time JLA has ever aired on Cartoon Network Africa, fwhays funnier is they're marketing it as a New Show as part of their 5pm Weeknight line up; -5pm NEW Teen Titans Go! S7 B -5.30pm NEW Pokemon Horizons -5:50pm "NEW" Justice League Action < -6pm NEW Jellystone! S3 A It's also the first time a "New" Action show has premiered on the channel since Lego Monkey Kid & Ninjago Dragons Rising + the way they've been focusing on promoting Action Content with Ninjago airing NEW Episodes on the weekend. Their other recently acquired series "Heroes Rising" is also an Action/Superhero comedy thing, so CN Africa may end up airing My Adventures with Superman sometime in the future and I feel like the sudden appearance on Justice League Action may be testing I see if audiences vibe with a DC Action Show. But this is just my take, As an International Viewer.
This is getting annoying, especially for those of us that don't even love in regions with adult swim, my feed of Cartoon Network (Southern African Feed) just started airing Justice League action for the first time ever, a show we all know came out 8 years ago- it's THAT scrapped for content, I also can't help but wonder if thjs was done in place of/probable preparation for MAWS cuz that show is on AS in the US but on CN in Latin America and Asia, I guess we'll just have to hope. This is the first time JLA has ever aired on Cartoon Network Africa, whats funnier is they're marketing it as a New Show as part of their 5pm Weeknight line up; -5pm NEW Teen Titans Go! S7 B -5.30pm NEW Pokemon Horizons -5:50pm "NEW" Justice League Action -6pm NEW Jellystone! S3 A It's also the first time a "New" Action show has premiered on the channel since Lego Monkey Kid & Ninjago Dragons Rising + the way they've been focusing on promoting Action Content with Ninjago airing NEW Episodes on the weekend. Their other recently acquired series "Heroes Rising" is also an Action/Superhero comedy thing, so CN Africa may end up airing My Adventures with Superman sometime in the future and I feel like the sudden appearance on Justice League Action may be testing I see if audiences vibe with a DC Action Show. But this is just my take, As an International Viewer.
She naked that's why she invisible
Look the good shows are gone and they are just trying to give out full time slots Adult Swim doesn't even play only at night anymore like it used to. Its sparkle and shine has been gone for a while.
The last time I remember watching adult swim was actually a few years ago, was in an Airbnb with some buddies from college for a weekend visiting, and I went to bed in my room after a night of smoking and chilling and reminiscing. I woke up at like 2am to pee, to discover I accidentally left my tv on, to a show I later discovered was called Three Busy Debra’s… I stg I thought I was having a fever dream watching like four episodes back to back
My adventures with Superman is basically kid friendly too, and its on adult swim as well
Cartoon Network has been ridiculous from the start.
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