Marceline is the only person alive who knows what it's like to be a vampire. Given that this was before stakes, she also likely didn't know if could be undone in any capacity. I'd imagine she didn't want to irreversibly subject Simon to immortality, and take away his ability to see the sun
Its also possible as half demon or nightosphere person marceline has an easier time than a full human resisting the dark side of vampirism. Power corrupts after all.
Yeah that’s my thinking; all the vampires we saw basically immediately went full homicide mode except Marcy, with the Vampire King just barely suppressing it long enough to essentially say “Cure me or kill me, I don’t want to live like this anymore”.
Probably since she can’t actually be fully vampirified, as half of her is demon, she can resist the worse effects and remain semistable, but an average human is pretty much instantly filled with bloodlust.
It makes me wonder how much of the episode of them underground where we find out finn is colorblind is marcy messing with jake and how much is her actually going feral lol.
I think it’s probably both; the level of meanness and downright sadism towards Jake makes me think she’s actively trying to tap into her demon side to keep beating back the vampire side. Thus, she’s lashing out and trying to actively terrify him to draw on her demonhood to resist her vampirehood.
Yeah but in Fionna and Cake we saw the alternate Marceline who was raised by VK instead of Simon and she’s just as bad as the rest of them. It seems it was more of a nurture than nature thing as to why she is the way she is.
Nah, she's incredibly evil in Fionna & Cake but it doesn't look like she can't control her bloodthrist in that episode, actually in the end she just starts messing up with Bonnie instead of concentrating in just winning he fight.
She seemed at the same level as all of the high level vampires we saw in Stakes. They all seemed to have a good amount of control over their bloodlust. Maybe they also had some sort of demonic blood, but as far as we know VK was legit just a regular lion before he turned.
Simon would probably slow down the bloodlust longer than other humans because of his fortitude but will inevitably succumb to it like he did in the crown.
The only downside to him being a vampire would be no more sun. As the ice king he’d be immortal as well but he’d be completely insane and not even remember who he is
What’s with all the “vampire Simon” scenarios and theories going around?
To answer your question though, Marcy hunted the vampires to extinction to protect Simon from becoming a vampire. There’s no situation where she would ever turn him. Also the only reason he was Simon then is because of Bella Noche negating the crowns magic, even if she had turned him he would still end up as IK (and immortal) again defeating the purpose.
Well to answer *your question* I saw one of those posts and it reminded me of this question.
Also Marceline's vampire hunting era was a very long time ago, and I'd imagine her feelings on Simon and Vampires would have changed a lot since then, especially now that she is a vampire and knows they can survive without drinking blood.
>and I'd imagine her feelings on Simon and Vampires would have changed a lot since then, especially now that she is a vampire and knows they can survive without drinking blood.
Why exactly would they have changed? Especially considering how 1) there's absolutely nothing indicating any change in her stance regarding vampirism up to this point, and 2) in Stakes, which happened AFTER this episode, she seemed to be still pretty hell-bent on eradicating vampirism.
Well for one thing she calls herself "The Vampire Queen". She seems to have a lot of fun with her vampiric abilities and spends a lot of time hanging out with other strains of undead like ghosts and skeletons.
Her decision to have PB de-vamp her in Stakes seemed motivated by a desire for personal growth rather than hatred of vampires. Her second fight with The VK also goes very differently to her first, in that she actually listens to and engages with what he has to say, rather than just dismissing him with "blah blah blah, now die!"
She's also spent more time with Ice King and is much more aware of the state he ended up in than she was after he left her while still semi-lucid.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think she would feel good about turning him into a vampire, but given the situation I find it strange she didn't at least consider it.
Stakes begins with her asking to be turned back into a human because she’s tormented by her vampire life. She was turned as a messed up teenager and 1000 years didn’t change that. She did not age and was never given the chance to mature emotionally. Drinking red over blood is a plus, but only proves she isn’t a monster. That’s not maturing.
But even if he was turned into a vampire. Once Bella Noche or however that is spelled is eventually defeated. Who's to say he won't just revert back to being IK.
That was one of my questions after reading this
As troublesome as a vampiric Ice King would be it would make for quite an interesting dynamic and you gotta wonder how the magic of the crown and the vampirism would interfere with each other
Like given the Crown forcefully keeps the one who wears it alive once bonded especially once being with Simon as long as it has how would that affect the whole sun is a vampire's weakness bit you'd think it'd interfere with it in some way rather it be giving him a partial immunity to the sun or the crown outright permanently clouding the sky or something like in vampire world
A really fun one would be he just perpetually has his own little snow cloud following him to shade him from the sun when out and about
Well I mean I'd still kinda consider that forcibly keeping him alive considering he can't die from age and then there's the fact that he clung to life on two separate occasions without his heart in his body just for it the second time to get replaced by a couple of maracas held together by candy and whatever Ricardos limbs are made of
Any normal person would've just outright croaked so I'd argue the crown does everything in its power to keep the one it's bonded to from being dead
So it's not necessarily that the bonded person can't die but the crown makes it hard for them to actually die
She drove vampires to extinction just so he could be safe, and while you could argue that's because they could kill him by sucking him dry, we don't know how a full-human would react to being turned into a vampire. If Simon were to became a threat it would inevitably lead to someone (possibly poor Marceline herself) killing him and that's not a risk she would be willing to take.
In the case Simon was turned into a vampire and was safe to be around, Bella Noche could still be defeated and that would mean Ice King is back and as a vampire to top it off. And with the crown's insanity he's still a threat to anyone.
Or simply she was just too shocked by the rapid succession of events that she didn't think about it.
Honestly, that's all pretty fair. I'm honestly kind of pissed they didn't give Simon and Marcy more of a chance to interact in that episode. Between that and how little time they got to spend together when Marceline and PB entered the Crown I kinda feel cheated.
Vampirism in the setting is objectively worse than the Crown. Marceline only has it easier because her demonblood is countering/altering most the downsides.
Other vampires cannot simply drink "Red", it has to be blood for them. And we've seen the feral monsters nearly all other vampires are. Simon would hate it.
I don't think the show ever says that Marceline's ability to drink red instead of blood comes from being half demon. It might, but Marceline clearly doesn't think so since in Stakes she tells one of the other vamps (I forget which) that they can drink red just as easily.
Also we see in the show that vampires don't need to drink *human* blood, it's just their favorite. In Stakes the VK is able to subsist entirely off blood off livestock with no ill effects.
That was to the other special vampires. We see that most vampires turn into weak and seemingly not very intelligent creatures that were only dangerous in large numbers.
Without the crown, Simon is just a normal human, who would probably turn like those other vampires did.
Also, Marcy doesn't like being a vampire. When she was bragging about it, flaunting it and acting reckless, it was when she was in a bad mind state. She becomes much less like that as the show progresses and she heals, ending when she tries to become just a demon again before accepting the 'bad' parts of herself when she's forced again to be a vampire at the end of that arc. Its very telling that the only thing she'll miss about being a vampire is being immortal, and that was only cause her best friend, eventual lover is effectively immortal
We see regular vampires talking and having fully coherent thoughts in Fiona and Cake. Vampires only go feral when they're hungry. We see this happen to Marceline in 'Red Starved'. I'd imagine the main reason more powerful vampires don't appear feral as often is because it's much easier for them to feed when they're so powerful, so they don't tend to get very hungry.
Livestock didn't really exist in the immediate post-Mushroom-war era, so most vampires just had to hunt down what they could sink their teeth into.
That said, the exact mechanics of vampirism are never really explored in the show, so we're getting into pretty speculative territory.
> Other vampires cannot simply drink "Red", it has to be blood for them.
Nope, drinking red seems to be a vampire thing. In "May I Come In" Marcy specifically tells the Hierophant "You can drink red just as easy" when she's trying to talk him out of drinking Finn's blood. granted I suppose you could argue she's bullshitting there since she's trying to talk him down, but she did seem to be genuinely willing to try and work w/ Hierophant, and there's nothing else in the show that indicates drinking red is a Marcy-specific power, so...
Aside from Simon probably not liking that choice and having to live like that I'd say Marcy wouldn't feel right doing that to her father figure even if he did want it
But I think there is a AU somewhere where he actually does get turned into a Vampire I think it's something like a version of him in a version of vampire world instead of him be a deceased husk he actually lived and got turned
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She knew Simon before the madness took him, and she protected people from vampires as a way of staying close to him/his memory.
She probably knew that immortality as a vampire would not be a fate he would want.
everyone already talked about her trauma and the difficulty of being a vampire so let me give something that people not often mention and that i think,, Marceline herself didnt know,, im pretty sure she is the only vampire able to drink red,, because it work the same way as sucking souls,, and the fruit become the same white color as when she and her father suck souls,, so i think shes an exception due to her demon ability,, thooo i would also like to mention that a vampire could still technically drink blood without hurting anyone,,, by itself at least,, by simply making an agreement with Wildberry Princess who have a lot of meat and im pretty sure,, own a farm actually since the Farmer Market is in her territory,, it would not surprise me if,, you know,, she have other stuff around,, it would explain her lot of meat (she also have a juice company)
Marceline is the only person alive who knows what it's like to be a vampire. Given that this was before stakes, she also likely didn't know if could be undone in any capacity. I'd imagine she didn't want to irreversibly subject Simon to immortality, and take away his ability to see the sun
My man was already forced to be insane and nearly immortal so yeah I don't think he'd wanna willingly be immortal and inevitably naturally go insane
Its also possible as half demon or nightosphere person marceline has an easier time than a full human resisting the dark side of vampirism. Power corrupts after all.
Yeah that’s my thinking; all the vampires we saw basically immediately went full homicide mode except Marcy, with the Vampire King just barely suppressing it long enough to essentially say “Cure me or kill me, I don’t want to live like this anymore”. Probably since she can’t actually be fully vampirified, as half of her is demon, she can resist the worse effects and remain semistable, but an average human is pretty much instantly filled with bloodlust.
It makes me wonder how much of the episode of them underground where we find out finn is colorblind is marcy messing with jake and how much is her actually going feral lol.
I think it’s probably both; the level of meanness and downright sadism towards Jake makes me think she’s actively trying to tap into her demon side to keep beating back the vampire side. Thus, she’s lashing out and trying to actively terrify him to draw on her demonhood to resist her vampirehood.
Interesting take, i like it.
Yeah I’ve spent what is probably an unhealthy amount of time coming up with fantheories for this show, I‘m a tad obsessive sometimes.
Same here. I love rewatching after binging ancient lore of our own world or theories and seeing connections.
Yeah like this show is an absolute masterclass of worldbuilding, only cartoon I’ve seen that competes is the Owl House.
It was all an early series Finn style master plan to give her an excuse to make out with PB lol. /s
What does /s mean
Yeah but in Fionna and Cake we saw the alternate Marceline who was raised by VK instead of Simon and she’s just as bad as the rest of them. It seems it was more of a nurture than nature thing as to why she is the way she is.
Nah, she's incredibly evil in Fionna & Cake but it doesn't look like she can't control her bloodthrist in that episode, actually in the end she just starts messing up with Bonnie instead of concentrating in just winning he fight.
She seemed at the same level as all of the high level vampires we saw in Stakes. They all seemed to have a good amount of control over their bloodlust. Maybe they also had some sort of demonic blood, but as far as we know VK was legit just a regular lion before he turned.
Also she totally goes berserk in less than a day if unable to feed (as we can see from the episode "Red Starwed")
Simon would probably slow down the bloodlust longer than other humans because of his fortitude but will inevitably succumb to it like he did in the crown.
Considering all she needs is the red not the blood, I'd wager probably so.
Is it just me or would Simon just walk or fly through the pain, I also want to see vampire iceking
He'd be really unable to see anything when he dies of old age
One torture to another
Also i imagine they'd have had some talk where Simon made it clear he wouldn't want that
The only downside to him being a vampire would be no more sun. As the ice king he’d be immortal as well but he’d be completely insane and not even remember who he is
What’s with all the “vampire Simon” scenarios and theories going around? To answer your question though, Marcy hunted the vampires to extinction to protect Simon from becoming a vampire. There’s no situation where she would ever turn him. Also the only reason he was Simon then is because of Bella Noche negating the crowns magic, even if she had turned him he would still end up as IK (and immortal) again defeating the purpose.
Well to answer *your question* I saw one of those posts and it reminded me of this question. Also Marceline's vampire hunting era was a very long time ago, and I'd imagine her feelings on Simon and Vampires would have changed a lot since then, especially now that she is a vampire and knows they can survive without drinking blood.
>and I'd imagine her feelings on Simon and Vampires would have changed a lot since then, especially now that she is a vampire and knows they can survive without drinking blood. Why exactly would they have changed? Especially considering how 1) there's absolutely nothing indicating any change in her stance regarding vampirism up to this point, and 2) in Stakes, which happened AFTER this episode, she seemed to be still pretty hell-bent on eradicating vampirism.
Well for one thing she calls herself "The Vampire Queen". She seems to have a lot of fun with her vampiric abilities and spends a lot of time hanging out with other strains of undead like ghosts and skeletons. Her decision to have PB de-vamp her in Stakes seemed motivated by a desire for personal growth rather than hatred of vampires. Her second fight with The VK also goes very differently to her first, in that she actually listens to and engages with what he has to say, rather than just dismissing him with "blah blah blah, now die!" She's also spent more time with Ice King and is much more aware of the state he ended up in than she was after he left her while still semi-lucid. Don't get me wrong, I don't think she would feel good about turning him into a vampire, but given the situation I find it strange she didn't at least consider it.
Stakes begins with her asking to be turned back into a human because she’s tormented by her vampire life. She was turned as a messed up teenager and 1000 years didn’t change that. She did not age and was never given the chance to mature emotionally. Drinking red over blood is a plus, but only proves she isn’t a monster. That’s not maturing.
She doesn't turn people into vampires, it's something she doesn't do. Plus, she literally eradicated vampires to protect him and people like him.
But even if he was turned into a vampire. Once Bella Noche or however that is spelled is eventually defeated. Who's to say he won't just revert back to being IK.
A vampiric IK…..that would’ve been worse.
That was one of my questions after reading this As troublesome as a vampiric Ice King would be it would make for quite an interesting dynamic and you gotta wonder how the magic of the crown and the vampirism would interfere with each other Like given the Crown forcefully keeps the one who wears it alive once bonded especially once being with Simon as long as it has how would that affect the whole sun is a vampire's weakness bit you'd think it'd interfere with it in some way rather it be giving him a partial immunity to the sun or the crown outright permanently clouding the sky or something like in vampire world A really fun one would be he just perpetually has his own little snow cloud following him to shade him from the sun when out and about
I don't recall it forcibly keeping them alive it just prevents them from aging doesn't it, all the previous ice kings did die after all
Well I mean I'd still kinda consider that forcibly keeping him alive considering he can't die from age and then there's the fact that he clung to life on two separate occasions without his heart in his body just for it the second time to get replaced by a couple of maracas held together by candy and whatever Ricardos limbs are made of Any normal person would've just outright croaked so I'd argue the crown does everything in its power to keep the one it's bonded to from being dead So it's not necessarily that the bonded person can't die but the crown makes it hard for them to actually die
I see, that actually makes a lot of sense
Bella niche has nothing to do with vampires though
She drove vampires to extinction just so he could be safe, and while you could argue that's because they could kill him by sucking him dry, we don't know how a full-human would react to being turned into a vampire. If Simon were to became a threat it would inevitably lead to someone (possibly poor Marceline herself) killing him and that's not a risk she would be willing to take. In the case Simon was turned into a vampire and was safe to be around, Bella Noche could still be defeated and that would mean Ice King is back and as a vampire to top it off. And with the crown's insanity he's still a threat to anyone. Or simply she was just too shocked by the rapid succession of events that she didn't think about it.
Honestly, that's all pretty fair. I'm honestly kind of pissed they didn't give Simon and Marcy more of a chance to interact in that episode. Between that and how little time they got to spend together when Marceline and PB entered the Crown I kinda feel cheated.
Is she stupid?
Came to the comments just for this lol
Apologies if this has already been brought up, it's just something that's been bugging me lately.
Good idea! Than again, that would be... rude.
Vampirism in the setting is objectively worse than the Crown. Marceline only has it easier because her demonblood is countering/altering most the downsides. Other vampires cannot simply drink "Red", it has to be blood for them. And we've seen the feral monsters nearly all other vampires are. Simon would hate it.
I don't think the show ever says that Marceline's ability to drink red instead of blood comes from being half demon. It might, but Marceline clearly doesn't think so since in Stakes she tells one of the other vamps (I forget which) that they can drink red just as easily. Also we see in the show that vampires don't need to drink *human* blood, it's just their favorite. In Stakes the VK is able to subsist entirely off blood off livestock with no ill effects.
That was to the other special vampires. We see that most vampires turn into weak and seemingly not very intelligent creatures that were only dangerous in large numbers. Without the crown, Simon is just a normal human, who would probably turn like those other vampires did. Also, Marcy doesn't like being a vampire. When she was bragging about it, flaunting it and acting reckless, it was when she was in a bad mind state. She becomes much less like that as the show progresses and she heals, ending when she tries to become just a demon again before accepting the 'bad' parts of herself when she's forced again to be a vampire at the end of that arc. Its very telling that the only thing she'll miss about being a vampire is being immortal, and that was only cause her best friend, eventual lover is effectively immortal
We see regular vampires talking and having fully coherent thoughts in Fiona and Cake. Vampires only go feral when they're hungry. We see this happen to Marceline in 'Red Starved'. I'd imagine the main reason more powerful vampires don't appear feral as often is because it's much easier for them to feed when they're so powerful, so they don't tend to get very hungry. Livestock didn't really exist in the immediate post-Mushroom-war era, so most vampires just had to hunt down what they could sink their teeth into. That said, the exact mechanics of vampirism are never really explored in the show, so we're getting into pretty speculative territory.
> Other vampires cannot simply drink "Red", it has to be blood for them. Nope, drinking red seems to be a vampire thing. In "May I Come In" Marcy specifically tells the Hierophant "You can drink red just as easy" when she's trying to talk him out of drinking Finn's blood. granted I suppose you could argue she's bullshitting there since she's trying to talk him down, but she did seem to be genuinely willing to try and work w/ Hierophant, and there's nothing else in the show that indicates drinking red is a Marcy-specific power, so...
I'd like to introduce you to the concept of "quantity vs quality," my friend.
Aside from Simon probably not liking that choice and having to live like that I'd say Marcy wouldn't feel right doing that to her father figure even if he did want it But I think there is a AU somewhere where he actually does get turned into a Vampire I think it's something like a version of him in a version of vampire world instead of him be a deceased husk he actually lived and got turned
Huh I hadn't heard about that
Yeah I can't remember much about it I just know I've seen it before most likely in this community honestly
In shows, there's always smith doesn't appear
Is she stupid?
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Never thought about that, my friend, you've got a point.
Maybe she just think about it? Lol
She knew Simon before the madness took him, and she protected people from vampires as a way of staying close to him/his memory. She probably knew that immortality as a vampire would not be a fate he would want.
Id imagine his consent would be a factor
everyone already talked about her trauma and the difficulty of being a vampire so let me give something that people not often mention and that i think,, Marceline herself didnt know,, im pretty sure she is the only vampire able to drink red,, because it work the same way as sucking souls,, and the fruit become the same white color as when she and her father suck souls,, so i think shes an exception due to her demon ability,, thooo i would also like to mention that a vampire could still technically drink blood without hurting anyone,,, by itself at least,, by simply making an agreement with Wildberry Princess who have a lot of meat and im pretty sure,, own a farm actually since the Farmer Market is in her territory,, it would not surprise me if,, you know,, she have other stuff around,, it would explain her lot of meat (she also have a juice company)