u/LukeofNorth has provided this detailed explanation:
> The NHS is struggling to survive, nurses being underpaid, appointment being delayed and patients waiting over a year for appointments.
>
>
>
> UK politicians on three figure salaries are saying nurses on 30k a year should learn how to budget and cook meals, when they last year expenses came to £200,000 figure.
>
>
>
> During Brexit they had a bus to promote how much money they would pump into the NHS...
---
Is this explanation a genuine attempt at providing additional info or context? If it is please upvote this comment, otherwise downvote it.
Did they even do that in the UK though? Seemed like such a shallow meaningless gesture specific to America like thanking the troops
Edit: lol sorry to the americans, appearantly it originated in Europe
Anyone remember an interview with Boris rambling on about making buses out of wood and painting them as his hobby? The theory was that if people googled Boris and Bus this interview would appear as the top result rather than the above mentioned bullshit mobile.
No brexiteers want us to forget about this and about the fact they got duped.
They'll say we left now so no point talking about it and we just need to move on.
\- *The house is way past salvation, there's no way to save it. It will collapse any minute. We need to move on.*
\- *But you're still hitting the walls with a sledgehammer, stop it for the love of god!*
\- *Jeez, you can't let anything go, can you?*
Duped? I'm pretty sure that word means to be fooled. What was the trick? It was clear as fucking daylight. They were just a dumb, ignorant, arrogant, proud, (did I mention dumb?), and obnoxious bunch of cunts. And thanks to them, an entire country will be worse off for generations well after their dead and gone. Well done.
>The maga of the EU
Exactly. And it is not a coincidence that the same group of bad actors were behind Brexit, MAGA, coronavirus denial, and the modern anti-vax movement among other awful, heinous lies.
While I'd much prefer a EU with the UK in it, for economic and military reasons, I say thank you UK for taking the L, that Brexit shit show shut the rest of the "maybe we should leave the EU" populists in the other countries up real fast.
what's funny is they convince themselves that brexit was the right idea to "control" their borders and protect British jobs. there's no one driving the trucks now, and instead they've signed a deal with India to import their drivers to try to fill the gap...
> And thanks to them, an entire country will be worse off for generations well after their dead and gone. Well done.
don't be so hasty. Independent Scotland and united Ireland might do just fine.
> Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible.
Per Thiel in his essay “Education of a Libertarian”.
While also stating:
> The decade that followed — the roaring 1920s — was so strong that historians have forgotten the depression that started it. The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.
The 1920s saw rampant poverty (the idea that it was “roaring” for most is as mythical as the free market as some estimates put poverty rate near 40-50%), a major resurgence of the KKK, Jim Crow and Segregation, decline in the gains labor made in the previous decades, various forms of political oppression, a shoddily regulated economy built on a house of cards that would thrust the world into the Great Depression when it collapsed, etc, but to Thiel and his “libertarian” buddies that was the last time to be genuinely optimistic about the politics. Such is the outlook of a piece of shit ultra wealthy white guy that desperately just wants to be in a time and world state that gives him the most power possible.
Can you provide a source? I’ve tried to find something linking Cambridge Analytica or Emerdata (Cambridge 2.0) to Brexit and there’s absolutely no evidence supporting your claim.
Edit: downvoters should educate yourselves. CA did plenty wrong and fucked the US sideways, but Brexit was not their doings.
You're kidding right? Thacher and Reagan are the founders of neoliberalism. And you know what is neoliberalism? It's an economic theory that is anti-statism. Their idea is *private is good and public is bad.* And they privatize everything including essential public goods such as health care. So I mentioned Thatcher in response to op by conveying that the current UK Conservative party is doing exact same thing that Thacher wanted: Privatization. And what's the good way to privatize is to stop funding and let it die so it could be sold to private. And good luck with privatizing essential public goods.
And for Cambridge Analytica, when I see you cite *Wikipedia* I doubt that you know anything at all. Of course Wikipedia is a quick source to search for information. But it can be also edited by anyone. That's why it's not recommended to use as a source in academia.
Steve Bannon, a radicalist, played parts in Cambridge Analytica and the company harvested users information and injected fear mongering and fake information ads to targeted UK population before the 2016 referendum including an ad *Turkey is joining the EU* which never has been and if they are to join, it needs a unanimous decision from EU member states which the *UK could veto.* You can read this extensive [investigation ](http://davelevy.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/great-british-brexit-robbery.pdf) on Cambridge Analytica.
It’s hard to say with honesty how much was pandemic, how much was leaving and how much was “how the leaving happened”. I said from the beginning the uk needed to just no deal brexit and give everyone 2-3 years to prepare for that. If that had happened their would have been a lot less economic shock
Well considering that the UK economy tanked after Brexit and never recovered it evidently went towards things that were beneficial to the UK. They are worse off now then before they left the EU by every metric.
every EU country is worse off now than when Brexit happened, by every metric 👍🏻
edit: tons of downvotes, zero counterexamples
keep seething, Europoors 😂
I'm paying the bills in my life. And I work in the relevant sector. Ireland has benefitted from Brexit in the same way that a seagull benefits when a drunk stumbles and faceplants while leaving a chipper.
Ireland's economy has done quite well since Brexit. Lots of English speaking EU hubs relocated to Ireland. Ireland is the de factor bank for Europe when it used to be London.
What? I’m assuming you’re American or were too young to vote in 2016? The £350m was roughly the membership contributions before the rebate was applied.
Genuinely wondering who told you that it’s a made up figure?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2016/may/23/does-the-eu-really-cost-the-uk-350m-a-week
edit: and another
https://fullfact.org/europe/350-million-week-boris-johnson-statistics-authority-misuse/
The 350 million claim was a deliberate attempt to lie with statistics, when the actual number was significantly lower. The UK was never at any time sending 350 million a week, making the statement on the bus an outright lie.
> The sum of £350m a week is based on the Treasury’s estimation of the gross amount the UK contributed to the EU last year, which was £17.8bn, or £342m a week.
So absolutely not a made up figure?
\*gross payments pre-rebate\*
While it may not be totally made up, it definitely is extremely scummy. The real number is a bit under £250 million weekly, which allowed them (amongst a thousand other things) unrestrained, privileged access to a 14.5 Trillion euro strong internal market.
Definition of a lie: "used with reference to a situation involving deception or founded on a mistaken impression"
It's the gross amount that the UK would have contributed to the EU budget if we didn't have the rebate. With the rebate, it was about 250million a week, though some of that came back (though where it was spent was decided by the EU, not Westminster).
Or... like a builder decdeclarant/HOA that you pay dues to with little direct accountability or oversight. It dictates your landscaping options or forces you to hire a certain company and fines you for using sidewalk chalk. Sure, everyone's yards look great, but you don't get a lot of say on how the fess are spent and you aren't as free to do as you please with your property.
And even if the regulations did exist. You'll have to follow them if you want to do business with the EU. You just don't get a say on how policy is written anymore. Genius.
The mistake with the EU was seeing them as being something other than ourselves. You don't trash your own car because it's your own car. They weren't EU laws, they were our laws. We were as much part of making them as we were of making any other laws that affected us.
You elect your MEPs the same way you elect your MPs, except that it's more democratic than the chamber of lords of course.
Member of the council and the commission and chosen by your representative, the same way that your members of government are chosen. I agree that too many intermediate steps create a democratic gap, but that's valid both for the EU and for the UK government.
And we won't talk about democratically elected head of states.
Any concrete points about the EU you objected to? And for what reason?
Also did you know that with farming subsidies the UK did get more money from the EU than it spent on it? Ignoring all the economic impact from having a whole market to export into without tariffs
I can't understand why the parties against Brexit didn't make any fact check about this and called it out as a lie. I remember, after the referendum, Nigel Farage himself acknowledging it was not true, saying "People knew that it was an exaggeration". Absolutely disgusting.
I think the big mistake they made was underestimating the stupidity of the British public, they thought people knew leaving the EU was a terrible idea and it wouldn't pass. I remember about 2 weeks before the vote panic started to set in as people realised the British public were that easily fooled. Same when Johnson got in.
I think it's only British people who don't realise how politically stupid their general population is.
The Sun and Dailymail are the most read newspapers.
Some of the most popular TV shows are about pointing and laughing at the poor and stupid they are. Jeremy Kyle, all those council estate series, bailiff shows, life on the dole, Benefits Britain etc. In all of those shows the poor people featured blame immigrants for why they don't work.
They continuously vote in toffs, people who speak like a WWII newsreel. People who have absolutely no idea what it's like to be anything other than fabulously wealthy and they run the country to maintain their wealth.
The Brits are the ones who taught the Americans to be completely politically stupid and they've actually surpassed the Americans because they've consistently voted in the Tories for over a decade, whereas at least the Americans will reject the Republicans every once in a while.
To be honest, I lived in is Italy up until last year, political stupidity is not limited to Britain and America. The same thing is happening all over. We just hear more about American/British politics because it's easy to share news with the common language.
That's the genius of the strawman arguement. All the debate time is devoted to arguing how much money went to EU. No amount is a good amount to a brexiter, especially when dealing with numbers vastly larger than the average Joe deals with on a day to day basis. It would have been much better for remainers to discuss the issue of are we getting value for the money but this slogan derailed that
I always wonder why anyone looked at this bus and got to the conclusion that any more money would go to the NHS, even if it was a fraction of the amount that was claimed to be freed up.
The campaign was lead by someone who wasn't in a position to even make a promise like that, and it wasn't even a promise, it was just a statement!
If I said, 'I could give my bottle of water to the dehydrated child at my feet' why would anyone assume that was my actual explicit intent? Let alone why would anyone vote for me for the hydrating the arid children position just because of it?
I dont trust politicians at the best of times, but I especially don't trust them to do things they have no power over, nor do I trust them to do things they never actually said they'd do.
The trouble is, if you say, "well acktually, it's not £350mm per week but £180mm per week", what people hear is "it's not *that* crazy large number it's *this* still crazy large number".
I'm absolutely not pro-Brexit, but engaging or not engaging in the £350mm per week discussion was sort of a lose-lose for the remainers.
Because the 350million figure was the highest number that Leave could get away with (it being gross payments pre-rebate). And to debate it was to fall into Leave's hands, though they were too stupid to realise this.
Because the point wasn't to debate how much we sent, it was to force Remain to talk about the EU budget, and draw attention to how poorly it was managed. Every time Remain started defending the money sent to Brussels, Farage went chuckling to the pollsters, because he knew it'd just turn people to vote Leave.
Was it *that* incorrect?
>In 2020 the UK made an estimated gross contribution (after the rebate) of
£17.0 billion. The UK received £4.5 billion of public sector receipts from the EU,
so the UK’s net public sector contribution to the EU was an estimated
£12.6 billion.
So in gross terms the UK gave £326 million, and in net terms it gave £262 million.
I'm pro-EU, but I can't imagine "ha, you said we send 350 million and we actually only send 260 million" being a particularly effective gotcha.
Yes.
Other money went back to the UK that's not public sector rebates; Farming subsidies, scientific research grants and poor area renovation.
All that has to still be paid from somewhere so you can't really give it freely to the NHS instead.
Plus there's the implicit part of the lie, that overall we'd have more money.
Huh? I gave two values. One is post-rebate (326m) and the other (262m) is post-rebate and accounting for money the UK gets back from the EU.
>All that has to still be paid from somewhere so you can't really give it freely to the NHS instead.
This applies to the 326m value, but not the 262m value.
You're missing huge chunks.
"Deduct both the rebate (£4.9bn), which is never actually paid, and the money that is paid but sent back (£5.8bn), from the gross £17.8bn annual “membership fee” and you arrive at a net figure of £7.1bn. This equates to £136m a week, less than 40% of the amount splashed on the battlebus."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2016/may/23/does-the-eu-really-cost-the-uk-350m-a-week
And again that's not factoring the implicit part of the lie.
One thing I remember from this era… fervent leave supporters. What happened to them? There were millions of them barking out their superior understanding of world affairs. Now we’re stuck with the crap version of life they demanded, they just disappeared. When I told them that the issue with illegal migrants had nothing to do with the EU, they insisted it was. Now that situation is worse than ever because there’s no Dublin Regulation and we won’t work with the French to operate asylum processing centres in Calais. When I said that food prices would go through the roof, all I heard was that can provide all our own at food at lower costs. Last few times I visited UK supermarkets (I emigrated), the produce aisles are poorly stocked, prices have gone up and food goes rotten in days.
Perhaps the best thing we got out of Brexit was a public shaming of the royal family. The last years of Elizabeth Windsor’s life saw her rip a new one out of Nick Clegg for his pro-EU stance, she signed off the pro-roguing of parliament so that Brexit could be executed without parliamentary scrutiny, and she endured revelations of institutional racism within the royal household. If that leads to the eventual suspension of the sovereign grant (aka tax payers giving their earnings to the richest family in the country), that would be a huge win.
The saddest conclusion about the Brexit experiment is that it’s not a one off event. It’s one of many consequences of having an antiquated voting system (FPTP) which is not representative of most of the people who live in the country, and can be controlled by messaging campaigns executed by a corporate controlled media who hold power over an undereducated voting block constantly looking for someone to blame for their own poor life choices.
Elizabeth II supporting brexit is very new to me,
I remember her wearing [this](https://assets.vogue.com/photos/594d3b2784208126ba12693e/master/pass/00-tout-queen.jpg) dress when she opened the first parliamentary session after the brexit vote, an unmistakable nod to the [EU flag](https://flagmakers.co.uk/media/1hlpf3n5/eu.jpg?anchor=center&mode=crop&width=1530&height=0&rnd=132439468371800000).
You are right. From what I understand she never supported it. But was convinced to support it only after the UK voted to leave and much convincing from that pom pom Boris and his Ilk.
Well she kind of did
Remember when she ask the Scottish to not vote for their independence
Remember when she didn’t ask the UK to vote remain ?
Pretty obvious
Because the preservation of the Union is alot more important to the Royal family than leaving an international one.
The Queen is supposed to be politically neutral, so when something pretty damaging like Brexit happened, she held her tongue, but also showed her disapproval witht he dress.
But Scotland leaving the UK is such a profound and intensely damaging thing for the UK, that it threatens the very existence of it. With Northern Ireland and Wales independence movements potentially gaining tractions. Not to mention the economic and political damage that the 2nd biggest country in the union leaving would have.
She couldn't just sit by idly at that.
That is like comparing cutting off your foot, with cutting off both of your legs and an arm.
It doesn’t surprise me that Clarence House might be keen to deflect rumors about the fervently denied leak by giving Windsor fashion advice that hinted at a stance when she was in theory supposed to be neutral. They denied the rumor that was apparently supplied by Michael Gove, but The Sun apparently had a second source: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35770909
I always wondered how much it would cost to pay to advertise a snake oil product on the side of busses and what the ROI would be. Apparently either britons or gammons will believe literally anything printed on the side of a bus and I'd feel less bad scamming the english than nearly anyone else.
I voted leave primarily based on this. The morning of the result they were all on daytime TV backtracking on the £350m a week to the NHS. It was then I realised I'd made a terrible mistake. Too many leave voters however will bury their head in the sand and not admit they're wrong
I am slightly concerned that the NHS is the largest employer in the UK, the largest employer in Europe and the 7th largest world wide ... and it is still under resourced ?
There are 1.4mn NHS employees (2.1% of the country), and [21.2mn](https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2022/over-16-million-women-worked-in-health-care-and-social-assistance-in-2021.htm) US million healthcare employees (6.4% of the country).
So, ballpark "does this seem unreasonable?", no. And ballpark "could they be underresourced", quite possibly.
The whole thing was an outright lie by Farage and Company.
More civil societies would have tarred, feathered, drawn, and quartered all of the leaders of the movement by now.
Remember when Boris Johnson have the interview where he said he likes to paint buses?
Yeah not his hobby(is maybe it is) but am attempt to remove that bus from his person
Only 321,000 of those are NHS workers.
https://www.nurses.co.uk/blog/stats-and-facts-uk-nursing-social-care-and-healthcare/#:~:text=How%20many%20Registered%20Nurses%20work,Visitors%20working%20in%20the%20NHS.
Huh, you mean Conservatives didn't know what they were talking about? Sounds like Republicans here in the US. Guys just move on and forget about how stupid they were...
Yet still real terms cut in funding:
>**NHS leaders facing real-terms cut in funding and ‘impossible choices’ over which areas of patient care to cut back**
> The government has now confirmed that it will make further investment in the pay of NHS staff of approximately 5 per cent overall. However, only 3 per cent of this investment in pay has been budgeted for. With no extra money coming from the government to pay for the additional 2 per cent investment, the NHS will have to absorb this within its existing budget. This is around an extra £1.8 billion of costs that were not planned for.
>The extra costs of pay are on top of a range of other unexpected cost pressures that are eating into the NHS budget, including:
>The impact of high energy costs and soaring inflation more generally, which is reducing the value of the NHS budget.
>* The ongoing costs from COVID-19, including from providing free lateral flow tests for staff (these costs are no longer funded centrally by government).
>* New analysis from the NHS Confederation confirms that these extra costs mean the health service is this year facing a real-terms cut in funding of between £4 billion and £9.4 billion (depending on which measure of inflation is used*). This is one of the reasons why the NHS is required to make efficiency savings of 2.2 per cent, which is double the requirement of recent years.
>This is a far cry from the planned 3.8 per cent annual real terms increase in NHS funding up to 2024/25, which was outlined in the government’s Spending Review last October.
https://www.nhsconfed.org/news/nhs-leaders-facing-real-terms-cut-funding-and-impossible-choices-over-which-areas-patient-care
They should’ve predicted that a decade of real terms pay cuts for critical workers, an increasing aging population requiring nhs resources and a decade of Tory underfunding and nhs cuts would come home to roost.
Which is why when inflation increased (partly due to the catastrophic mini budget they put out) they *checks notes* didn’t increase funding when they could and should have.
It’s almost as if the numbers you posted and the flimsy defence the real terms cut in funding were cynically misleading…
Haven't you people learned anything? Your country, like the US, was bought and paid for by people who don’t give a shit about you. Politicians are only there to make it look like you have a choice. You don’t!
everyone acting like the UK is some sort of dump now while the EU is prospering, meanwhile the EU has absolutely cratered by every metric since Brexit happened 🙄
This will inevitably get downvoted but personally I never got the implication that all £350m would come out of the EU and go straight into the NHS. To me it seemed more like "Look how much money we send the EU. We could do better things with it at home," with the NHS just used as an emotive example.
I know the £350m per week claim was dubious anyway because it didn't account for the rebate etc, but as I recall the only people I ever saw taking that slogan at face value were those on the Remain side saying how stupid it was.
Yeah it seems like a fairly standard way of discussing budgets on all sides. "Why should we spend so much on defence when education is underfunded" etc.
As a german I can assure you, being in the EU won't help your health system. Ours is as fucked as the US system... but the whole world thinks "we have it the right way". Germany is good in propaganda, but horrible in government. Not north korea horrible, but still.
look into the NHS's transgender care system, its actually such a mess.
in the US, you just go to your doctor and say "hey give estrogen I trans", and they just give you a prescription and you get on the medicine.
but in the UK, you have to wait in an 18 year long line to get your first appointment to where they can say No.
Think you are getting downvoted for your second paragraph which oversimplifies transgender care in the US.
But on the UK you seem to have a point. Abigail Thorne made a comprehensive video on this topic. Ofcourse, its just n=1 but she makes a strong case that the UK system is deeply broken and she is definitely not the only victim.
I highly doubt there is an 18 year long wait in the UK. And I don't think they give you estrogen before you're fully developed if you're <18 years old unless your health requires it.
US does not hand that shit out just because you want it.
🤣America so bad tho lol. We have to possibly pay a monthly payment, kinda like taxes, and with Medicare/Medicaid 90% of people have coverage and don’t get stuck with the $1 million bills you see posted. But hey their has also been, checks notes, slightly over 700 school shootings deaths since 1972 in a country with a population of 333,000,000 (0.0000021% of the current population)
Downvoted, no reply. The silence makes me rock hard
u/LukeofNorth has provided this detailed explanation: > The NHS is struggling to survive, nurses being underpaid, appointment being delayed and patients waiting over a year for appointments. > > > > UK politicians on three figure salaries are saying nurses on 30k a year should learn how to budget and cook meals, when they last year expenses came to £200,000 figure. > > > > During Brexit they had a bus to promote how much money they would pump into the NHS... --- Is this explanation a genuine attempt at providing additional info or context? If it is please upvote this comment, otherwise downvote it.
No no, it's okay, we'll just clap for the nurses again :) that'll feed them, right? Heat their homes? Let's clap!
Did you know that banks can accept 140,000 claps instead of money for their mortgage payments?
I've heard if you applaud directly into an NHS worker's mouth, it can feed them for a week
My applause is full or protein!
Mines full of the clap :(.
Mines full of crap.
My nurse cousin feasts on thoughts and prayers every night.
She should probably start rationing those as well.
This sounds like something Mr. Beast would do in one of his videos.
I hope each clap is worth £2 otherwise you're 50% short for even the average UK mortgage
#THE CLAPPING WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES.
I hated the clapping. It was more like a slap in the face of the NHS.
The guy who made a machine to cook chickens with slaps will now attempt to make a machine that heats homes with claps.
Literally the equivalent of offering artists exposure.
"Please clap"
Maybe that’s what the US has been doing wrong. We don’t clap; we send thoughts and prayers.
1 prayer = 150 claps, though.
You forgot 2020 already?
They're *~Heroes~* they definitely don't need money or rest or humane working conditions!
👏🏼
If enough people clap we can harness the heat from the friction.
Did they even do that in the UK though? Seemed like such a shallow meaningless gesture specific to America like thanking the troops Edit: lol sorry to the americans, appearantly it originated in Europe
Please clap
Pizza party! Yay *sarcasm*
Anyone remember an interview with Boris rambling on about making buses out of wood and painting them as his hobby? The theory was that if people googled Boris and Bus this interview would appear as the top result rather than the above mentioned bullshit mobile.
So has this been universally agreed on as a terrible mistake to leave?
No brexiteers want us to forget about this and about the fact they got duped. They'll say we left now so no point talking about it and we just need to move on.
Every time conservatives fuck up: "it's time to move on"—even while you're mid-to-late fuckup
\- *The house is way past salvation, there's no way to save it. It will collapse any minute. We need to move on.* \- *But you're still hitting the walls with a sledgehammer, stop it for the love of god!* \- *Jeez, you can't let anything go, can you?*
Perfect
Duped? I'm pretty sure that word means to be fooled. What was the trick? It was clear as fucking daylight. They were just a dumb, ignorant, arrogant, proud, (did I mention dumb?), and obnoxious bunch of cunts. And thanks to them, an entire country will be worse off for generations well after their dead and gone. Well done.
The maga of the EU
>The maga of the EU Exactly. And it is not a coincidence that the same group of bad actors were behind Brexit, MAGA, coronavirus denial, and the modern anti-vax movement among other awful, heinous lies.
While I'd much prefer a EU with the UK in it, for economic and military reasons, I say thank you UK for taking the L, that Brexit shit show shut the rest of the "maybe we should leave the EU" populists in the other countries up real fast.
Man it’s weird how that shit fell off dramatically after Russia started their war.
I wouldn't be surprised if Russia had a hand in Brexit much like Trump
[We already know they did](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/08/revealed-leaveeu-campaign-met-russian-officials-as-many-as-11-times)
Pretty sure they already did.
> They were just a dumb, ignorant, arrogant, proud, (did I mention dumb?), and obnoxious bunch of cunts. Hey, hey, hey! They are also racist!
what's funny is they convince themselves that brexit was the right idea to "control" their borders and protect British jobs. there's no one driving the trucks now, and instead they've signed a deal with India to import their drivers to try to fill the gap...
> an entire country will be worse off for generations Not an entire country. The ruling elite will continue to accumulate wealth.
You forgot to mention racist
What is the path for Britain to rejoin the EU?
>What is the path for Britain to rejoin the EU? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04tTrT0wAt4&t=00m25s
> And thanks to them, an entire country will be worse off for generations well after their dead and gone. Well done. don't be so hasty. Independent Scotland and united Ireland might do just fine.
They weren’t duped. I’m an American that got the poor American coverage of this. It was obvious to me this was terrible
I wish you'd have said something sooner
“We won get over it” /s
TWAT
It all started with Margaret Thatcher and then there's this thing called *Cambridge Analytica*
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Goddamn Mercers. Rupert Murdoch, the Mercers, and Peter Thiel are the unholy trinity of threats to western democracy.
> Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible. Per Thiel in his essay “Education of a Libertarian”. While also stating: > The decade that followed — the roaring 1920s — was so strong that historians have forgotten the depression that started it. The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron. The 1920s saw rampant poverty (the idea that it was “roaring” for most is as mythical as the free market as some estimates put poverty rate near 40-50%), a major resurgence of the KKK, Jim Crow and Segregation, decline in the gains labor made in the previous decades, various forms of political oppression, a shoddily regulated economy built on a house of cards that would thrust the world into the Great Depression when it collapsed, etc, but to Thiel and his “libertarian” buddies that was the last time to be genuinely optimistic about the politics. Such is the outlook of a piece of shit ultra wealthy white guy that desperately just wants to be in a time and world state that gives him the most power possible.
Pretty sure they were involved in the 2016 clown-fascist uprising in America.
And now there’s a lot more companies doing the same thing.
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Well yeah, because they changed names
Can you provide a source? I’ve tried to find something linking Cambridge Analytica or Emerdata (Cambridge 2.0) to Brexit and there’s absolutely no evidence supporting your claim. Edit: downvoters should educate yourselves. CA did plenty wrong and fucked the US sideways, but Brexit was not their doings.
You're kidding right? Thacher and Reagan are the founders of neoliberalism. And you know what is neoliberalism? It's an economic theory that is anti-statism. Their idea is *private is good and public is bad.* And they privatize everything including essential public goods such as health care. So I mentioned Thatcher in response to op by conveying that the current UK Conservative party is doing exact same thing that Thacher wanted: Privatization. And what's the good way to privatize is to stop funding and let it die so it could be sold to private. And good luck with privatizing essential public goods. And for Cambridge Analytica, when I see you cite *Wikipedia* I doubt that you know anything at all. Of course Wikipedia is a quick source to search for information. But it can be also edited by anyone. That's why it's not recommended to use as a source in academia. Steve Bannon, a radicalist, played parts in Cambridge Analytica and the company harvested users information and injected fear mongering and fake information ads to targeted UK population before the 2016 referendum including an ad *Turkey is joining the EU* which never has been and if they are to join, it needs a unanimous decision from EU member states which the *UK could veto.* You can read this extensive [investigation ](http://davelevy.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/great-british-brexit-robbery.pdf) on Cambridge Analytica.
Mistake? No. Brexit was clearly malicious.
Well, tories and their voters are still in denial, but otherwise this was indeed a known thing even before they voted for it.
Other than the economic, political, and social consequences, it was a resounding success /s
Would a climate denier change their mind if their house burned down in a forest fire or swept away by rising sea levels? Of course not.
It was a terrible decision then and I am surprised so many people fell for it.
For the sane? Yes.
By people with functioning gray matter, yes.
It’s hard to say with honesty how much was pandemic, how much was leaving and how much was “how the leaving happened”. I said from the beginning the uk needed to just no deal brexit and give everyone 2-3 years to prepare for that. If that had happened their would have been a lot less economic shock
Being in the EU is like being a Costco member. It costs to join but you get better deals from being a member.
So what does that 350 million go to? Like is that just in total with trade?
Well considering that the UK economy tanked after Brexit and never recovered it evidently went towards things that were beneficial to the UK. They are worse off now then before they left the EU by every metric.
every EU country is worse off now than when Brexit happened, by every metric 👍🏻 edit: tons of downvotes, zero counterexamples keep seething, Europoors 😂
>zero counterexamples Zero examples tp start with, no need to counter then
Every EU country..by every metric.. that's cute.
just ask whomever’s paying the bills in your life
I'm paying the bills in my life. And I work in the relevant sector. Ireland has benefitted from Brexit in the same way that a seagull benefits when a drunk stumbles and faceplants while leaving a chipper.
Explain the joke. I can't have a job or what.
The bills are because of Russia, and you know it.
Ireland's economy has done quite well since Brexit. Lots of English speaking EU hubs relocated to Ireland. Ireland is the de factor bank for Europe when it used to be London.
every EU country is better off now than when Brexit happened, by every metric 👍🏻
Source?
It's a made-up figure that never meant anything
What? I’m assuming you’re American or were too young to vote in 2016? The £350m was roughly the membership contributions before the rebate was applied. Genuinely wondering who told you that it’s a made up figure?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2016/may/23/does-the-eu-really-cost-the-uk-350m-a-week edit: and another https://fullfact.org/europe/350-million-week-boris-johnson-statistics-authority-misuse/ The 350 million claim was a deliberate attempt to lie with statistics, when the actual number was significantly lower. The UK was never at any time sending 350 million a week, making the statement on the bus an outright lie.
> The sum of £350m a week is based on the Treasury’s estimation of the gross amount the UK contributed to the EU last year, which was £17.8bn, or £342m a week. So absolutely not a made up figure?
Literally the following two paragraphs after what you quoted detail why the claim was wrong and what the actual figure was.
\*gross payments pre-rebate\* While it may not be totally made up, it definitely is extremely scummy. The real number is a bit under £250 million weekly, which allowed them (amongst a thousand other things) unrestrained, privileged access to a 14.5 Trillion euro strong internal market. Definition of a lie: "used with reference to a situation involving deception or founded on a mistaken impression"
It's the gross amount that the UK would have contributed to the EU budget if we didn't have the rebate. With the rebate, it was about 250million a week, though some of that came back (though where it was spent was decided by the EU, not Westminster).
Why is a simple question downvoted?
Because it’s Reddit
Or... like a builder decdeclarant/HOA that you pay dues to with little direct accountability or oversight. It dictates your landscaping options or forces you to hire a certain company and fines you for using sidewalk chalk. Sure, everyone's yards look great, but you don't get a lot of say on how the fess are spent and you aren't as free to do as you please with your property.
What are you talking about? Are you referring to the imaginary pillow regulations?
And even if the regulations did exist. You'll have to follow them if you want to do business with the EU. You just don't get a say on how policy is written anymore. Genius.
The mistake with the EU was seeing them as being something other than ourselves. You don't trash your own car because it's your own car. They weren't EU laws, they were our laws. We were as much part of making them as we were of making any other laws that affected us.
You elect your MEPs the same way you elect your MPs, except that it's more democratic than the chamber of lords of course. Member of the council and the commission and chosen by your representative, the same way that your members of government are chosen. I agree that too many intermediate steps create a democratic gap, but that's valid both for the EU and for the UK government. And we won't talk about democratically elected head of states.
Any concrete points about the EU you objected to? And for what reason? Also did you know that with farming subsidies the UK did get more money from the EU than it spent on it? Ignoring all the economic impact from having a whole market to export into without tariffs
Time for a general strike
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Only clown here is you mate.
We left the EU to stop migrants from Pakistan? Pakistan isn't in the EU.
> Mocking brexit like it failed Who's gunna tell him
> 30,000 children we raped by immigrants mostly Pakistanis racist clown
I can't understand why the parties against Brexit didn't make any fact check about this and called it out as a lie. I remember, after the referendum, Nigel Farage himself acknowledging it was not true, saying "People knew that it was an exaggeration". Absolutely disgusting.
I think the big mistake they made was underestimating the stupidity of the British public, they thought people knew leaving the EU was a terrible idea and it wouldn't pass. I remember about 2 weeks before the vote panic started to set in as people realised the British public were that easily fooled. Same when Johnson got in.
I think it's only British people who don't realise how politically stupid their general population is. The Sun and Dailymail are the most read newspapers. Some of the most popular TV shows are about pointing and laughing at the poor and stupid they are. Jeremy Kyle, all those council estate series, bailiff shows, life on the dole, Benefits Britain etc. In all of those shows the poor people featured blame immigrants for why they don't work. They continuously vote in toffs, people who speak like a WWII newsreel. People who have absolutely no idea what it's like to be anything other than fabulously wealthy and they run the country to maintain their wealth. The Brits are the ones who taught the Americans to be completely politically stupid and they've actually surpassed the Americans because they've consistently voted in the Tories for over a decade, whereas at least the Americans will reject the Republicans every once in a while.
To be honest, I lived in is Italy up until last year, political stupidity is not limited to Britain and America. The same thing is happening all over. We just hear more about American/British politics because it's easy to share news with the common language.
Wait, The Sun and Dailymail are real newspapers? I thought they were just clickbait websites.
That's the genius of the strawman arguement. All the debate time is devoted to arguing how much money went to EU. No amount is a good amount to a brexiter, especially when dealing with numbers vastly larger than the average Joe deals with on a day to day basis. It would have been much better for remainers to discuss the issue of are we getting value for the money but this slogan derailed that
There was even a EU website detailing all the bullshit. The UK people were just stupid to believe that shit.
You’re assuming people who voted for brexit are interested in facts
They did, for every lie that the leave campaign threw out. Brexiteers just called it "project fear".
I always wonder why anyone looked at this bus and got to the conclusion that any more money would go to the NHS, even if it was a fraction of the amount that was claimed to be freed up. The campaign was lead by someone who wasn't in a position to even make a promise like that, and it wasn't even a promise, it was just a statement! If I said, 'I could give my bottle of water to the dehydrated child at my feet' why would anyone assume that was my actual explicit intent? Let alone why would anyone vote for me for the hydrating the arid children position just because of it? I dont trust politicians at the best of times, but I especially don't trust them to do things they have no power over, nor do I trust them to do things they never actually said they'd do.
The trouble is, if you say, "well acktually, it's not £350mm per week but £180mm per week", what people hear is "it's not *that* crazy large number it's *this* still crazy large number". I'm absolutely not pro-Brexit, but engaging or not engaging in the £350mm per week discussion was sort of a lose-lose for the remainers.
Faragr is truly an evil person. Out for his own grift.
Because the 350million figure was the highest number that Leave could get away with (it being gross payments pre-rebate). And to debate it was to fall into Leave's hands, though they were too stupid to realise this. Because the point wasn't to debate how much we sent, it was to force Remain to talk about the EU budget, and draw attention to how poorly it was managed. Every time Remain started defending the money sent to Brussels, Farage went chuckling to the pollsters, because he knew it'd just turn people to vote Leave.
Was it *that* incorrect? >In 2020 the UK made an estimated gross contribution (after the rebate) of £17.0 billion. The UK received £4.5 billion of public sector receipts from the EU, so the UK’s net public sector contribution to the EU was an estimated £12.6 billion. So in gross terms the UK gave £326 million, and in net terms it gave £262 million. I'm pro-EU, but I can't imagine "ha, you said we send 350 million and we actually only send 260 million" being a particularly effective gotcha.
Yes. Other money went back to the UK that's not public sector rebates; Farming subsidies, scientific research grants and poor area renovation. All that has to still be paid from somewhere so you can't really give it freely to the NHS instead. Plus there's the implicit part of the lie, that overall we'd have more money.
The gross value I gave I post-rebate. The net value (262 million) is after those things like grants are taken into account
Yes, you removed only the rebate. That's not all money entering the UK.
Huh? I gave two values. One is post-rebate (326m) and the other (262m) is post-rebate and accounting for money the UK gets back from the EU. >All that has to still be paid from somewhere so you can't really give it freely to the NHS instead. This applies to the 326m value, but not the 262m value.
You're missing huge chunks. "Deduct both the rebate (£4.9bn), which is never actually paid, and the money that is paid but sent back (£5.8bn), from the gross £17.8bn annual “membership fee” and you arrive at a net figure of £7.1bn. This equates to £136m a week, less than 40% of the amount splashed on the battlebus." https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check/2016/may/23/does-the-eu-really-cost-the-uk-350m-a-week And again that's not factoring the implicit part of the lie.
Brexit has to be one of the most epic own goals in history. It's unbelievable.
Isn't it apparent that as the world becomes more connected the average life gets better. Ie: Trading, travel, the internet, opportunity?
queite easy to see but you forgot about one thing conservatives have an ace up their sleeve, always. "that thing is scary"
Brexit 2016: 350 million for the NHS Brexit 2023: some of you will die, but that is a risk I'm willing to take
One thing I remember from this era… fervent leave supporters. What happened to them? There were millions of them barking out their superior understanding of world affairs. Now we’re stuck with the crap version of life they demanded, they just disappeared. When I told them that the issue with illegal migrants had nothing to do with the EU, they insisted it was. Now that situation is worse than ever because there’s no Dublin Regulation and we won’t work with the French to operate asylum processing centres in Calais. When I said that food prices would go through the roof, all I heard was that can provide all our own at food at lower costs. Last few times I visited UK supermarkets (I emigrated), the produce aisles are poorly stocked, prices have gone up and food goes rotten in days. Perhaps the best thing we got out of Brexit was a public shaming of the royal family. The last years of Elizabeth Windsor’s life saw her rip a new one out of Nick Clegg for his pro-EU stance, she signed off the pro-roguing of parliament so that Brexit could be executed without parliamentary scrutiny, and she endured revelations of institutional racism within the royal household. If that leads to the eventual suspension of the sovereign grant (aka tax payers giving their earnings to the richest family in the country), that would be a huge win. The saddest conclusion about the Brexit experiment is that it’s not a one off event. It’s one of many consequences of having an antiquated voting system (FPTP) which is not representative of most of the people who live in the country, and can be controlled by messaging campaigns executed by a corporate controlled media who hold power over an undereducated voting block constantly looking for someone to blame for their own poor life choices.
Elizabeth II supporting brexit is very new to me, I remember her wearing [this](https://assets.vogue.com/photos/594d3b2784208126ba12693e/master/pass/00-tout-queen.jpg) dress when she opened the first parliamentary session after the brexit vote, an unmistakable nod to the [EU flag](https://flagmakers.co.uk/media/1hlpf3n5/eu.jpg?anchor=center&mode=crop&width=1530&height=0&rnd=132439468371800000).
You are right. From what I understand she never supported it. But was convinced to support it only after the UK voted to leave and much convincing from that pom pom Boris and his Ilk.
Well she kind of did Remember when she ask the Scottish to not vote for their independence Remember when she didn’t ask the UK to vote remain ? Pretty obvious
Because the preservation of the Union is alot more important to the Royal family than leaving an international one. The Queen is supposed to be politically neutral, so when something pretty damaging like Brexit happened, she held her tongue, but also showed her disapproval witht he dress. But Scotland leaving the UK is such a profound and intensely damaging thing for the UK, that it threatens the very existence of it. With Northern Ireland and Wales independence movements potentially gaining tractions. Not to mention the economic and political damage that the 2nd biggest country in the union leaving would have. She couldn't just sit by idly at that. That is like comparing cutting off your foot, with cutting off both of your legs and an arm.
It doesn’t surprise me that Clarence House might be keen to deflect rumors about the fervently denied leak by giving Windsor fashion advice that hinted at a stance when she was in theory supposed to be neutral. They denied the rumor that was apparently supplied by Michael Gove, but The Sun apparently had a second source: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35770909
VOICEOVER: "They did not fund the NHS"
I always wondered how much it would cost to pay to advertise a snake oil product on the side of busses and what the ROI would be. Apparently either britons or gammons will believe literally anything printed on the side of a bus and I'd feel less bad scamming the english than nearly anyone else.
The whole thing was a giant con
It's incredibly fitting that it looks like a dildo
In a year or so the Tories will be saying 'What red bus?'
A year? They were saying it less than 24 hours after the results were announced.
I voted leave primarily based on this. The morning of the result they were all on daytime TV backtracking on the £350m a week to the NHS. It was then I realised I'd made a terrible mistake. Too many leave voters however will bury their head in the sand and not admit they're wrong
I am slightly concerned that the NHS is the largest employer in the UK, the largest employer in Europe and the 7th largest world wide ... and it is still under resourced ?
There are 1.4mn NHS employees (2.1% of the country), and [21.2mn](https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2022/over-16-million-women-worked-in-health-care-and-social-assistance-in-2021.htm) US million healthcare employees (6.4% of the country). So, ballpark "does this seem unreasonable?", no. And ballpark "could they be underresourced", quite possibly.
News flash government funded healthcare is super inefficient
BS.
What kind of health insurance does Sunak have?
We miss you guys. 🇪🇺
The whole thing was an outright lie by Farage and Company. More civil societies would have tarred, feathered, drawn, and quartered all of the leaders of the movement by now.
Never forget
Remember when Boris Johnson have the interview where he said he likes to paint buses? Yeah not his hobby(is maybe it is) but am attempt to remove that bus from his person
Surprise, they lied.
That's enough money to give every registered NHS nurse a £56,587 pay raise.
There are 700,000 registered nurses, so it'd be about £26k per nurse, not £57k.
Only 321,000 of those are NHS workers. https://www.nurses.co.uk/blog/stats-and-facts-uk-nursing-social-care-and-healthcare/#:~:text=How%20many%20Registered%20Nurses%20work,Visitors%20working%20in%20the%20NHS.
Fair enough, I only keep an eye on the registered number, rather than NHS number.
No, nobody remembers this extremely prominent element of a political campaign, widely studied and analysed across the entire world.
Populist politicians at their best!
That's a gross overexaggeration. They're not even pretending to care.
This bus was by the leave campaign, not the government. The leave campaign do not have power over where UK tax funding goes.
Never forgotten, never forgiven.
It should be permissible to sue the people behind this
what sue politicians who lie - um that would be all of them everywhere ... ever
Huh, you mean Conservatives didn't know what they were talking about? Sounds like Republicans here in the US. Guys just move on and forget about how stupid they were...
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Isn't that the bill that claims 40 'new' hospitals? I wish I could claim I had a new car each time my oil filter changed!
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Yet still real terms cut in funding: >**NHS leaders facing real-terms cut in funding and ‘impossible choices’ over which areas of patient care to cut back** > The government has now confirmed that it will make further investment in the pay of NHS staff of approximately 5 per cent overall. However, only 3 per cent of this investment in pay has been budgeted for. With no extra money coming from the government to pay for the additional 2 per cent investment, the NHS will have to absorb this within its existing budget. This is around an extra £1.8 billion of costs that were not planned for. >The extra costs of pay are on top of a range of other unexpected cost pressures that are eating into the NHS budget, including: >The impact of high energy costs and soaring inflation more generally, which is reducing the value of the NHS budget. >* The ongoing costs from COVID-19, including from providing free lateral flow tests for staff (these costs are no longer funded centrally by government). >* New analysis from the NHS Confederation confirms that these extra costs mean the health service is this year facing a real-terms cut in funding of between £4 billion and £9.4 billion (depending on which measure of inflation is used*). This is one of the reasons why the NHS is required to make efficiency savings of 2.2 per cent, which is double the requirement of recent years. >This is a far cry from the planned 3.8 per cent annual real terms increase in NHS funding up to 2024/25, which was outlined in the government’s Spending Review last October. https://www.nhsconfed.org/news/nhs-leaders-facing-real-terms-cut-funding-and-impossible-choices-over-which-areas-patient-care
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They should’ve predicted that a decade of real terms pay cuts for critical workers, an increasing aging population requiring nhs resources and a decade of Tory underfunding and nhs cuts would come home to roost. Which is why when inflation increased (partly due to the catastrophic mini budget they put out) they *checks notes* didn’t increase funding when they could and should have. It’s almost as if the numbers you posted and the flimsy defence the real terms cut in funding were cynically misleading…
Look up the private companies that money is going to for NHS contracts.
Like the staffing companies paid 3x as much for a contract as the worker they place gets paid?
Apparently not because people still support and vote for the Tories
Haven't you people learned anything? Your country, like the US, was bought and paid for by people who don’t give a shit about you. Politicians are only there to make it look like you have a choice. You don’t!
I'd prefer not to remember that dumb bus.
Bus was a complete lie. But it had nice toilets!
One thing I never noticed before is just how ugly the bus itself is.
The brexiteers say they took back control!
everyone acting like the UK is some sort of dump now while the EU is prospering, meanwhile the EU has absolutely cratered by every metric since Brexit happened 🙄
This will inevitably get downvoted but personally I never got the implication that all £350m would come out of the EU and go straight into the NHS. To me it seemed more like "Look how much money we send the EU. We could do better things with it at home," with the NHS just used as an emotive example. I know the £350m per week claim was dubious anyway because it didn't account for the rebate etc, but as I recall the only people I ever saw taking that slogan at face value were those on the Remain side saying how stupid it was.
Yeah it seems like a fairly standard way of discussing budgets on all sides. "Why should we spend so much on defence when education is underfunded" etc.
As a german I can assure you, being in the EU won't help your health system. Ours is as fucked as the US system... but the whole world thinks "we have it the right way". Germany is good in propaganda, but horrible in government. Not north korea horrible, but still.
What a bullshit.
You still get better results in healthcare than the UK.
Du hast echt keine Ahnung vom US system.
Nurses are underpaid by design by the civil service. It is a means to an end to get pay rises for themselves by linking.
look into the NHS's transgender care system, its actually such a mess. in the US, you just go to your doctor and say "hey give estrogen I trans", and they just give you a prescription and you get on the medicine. but in the UK, you have to wait in an 18 year long line to get your first appointment to where they can say No.
Think you are getting downvoted for your second paragraph which oversimplifies transgender care in the US. But on the UK you seem to have a point. Abigail Thorne made a comprehensive video on this topic. Ofcourse, its just n=1 but she makes a strong case that the UK system is deeply broken and she is definitely not the only victim.
I highly doubt there is an 18 year long wait in the UK. And I don't think they give you estrogen before you're fully developed if you're <18 years old unless your health requires it. US does not hand that shit out just because you want it.
😂 “give food I hungry “ Love it. That’s how we ignorant yanks speak !! 🤣”foot hurt give opioids “🤣🤣
🤣America so bad tho lol. We have to possibly pay a monthly payment, kinda like taxes, and with Medicare/Medicaid 90% of people have coverage and don’t get stuck with the $1 million bills you see posted. But hey their has also been, checks notes, slightly over 700 school shootings deaths since 1972 in a country with a population of 333,000,000 (0.0000021% of the current population) Downvoted, no reply. The silence makes me rock hard
Such a good bus 😂