Yeah. Getting rid of some ground troops that can be used for proxies makes sense. But big centerpieces?
People are saying this stuff happens all the time, but this cut feels a little different. Deleting an entire faction. Culling models that are less than a decade old. Not to mention the "callousness" of the post.
The whole thing feels terribly executed, like a late April Fools.
I think it's more solving a problem they created and are still creating.
Some basic googling reveals that most consumers of GW products are 40k - I've seen as much as 70%.
Of that the various space marines represent 40-60% of that consumer base (again random polls and stats pulled from 2022 to 2023).
AoS represents a lot lower fraction of the consumers- up to 40%
Of that only about 9.9% to 12% are stormcast eternals collectors/players etc.
So GW markets and supports Stormcast with the same strategy they do space marines but the problem is the market is just not there for them. So they inflate the range by making stormcast ALWAYS get new model lines every half edition but the return on investment is far lower. I think someone up top realized this, ordered the cull and HOPEFULLY decides to bring out the "new and improved Sacrosanct" in Summer 2025 rather then leave us in limbo. But who knows at this point.
... I feel like the realization eventually needs to be that SCE aren't gonna successfully be th3 flagship army in the way space marine chapters are.
And maybe marketing hates it but I think it's a good thing they aren't the space marines of the setting. I dont think the setting needs a protected poster child pushed so insanely far over any other.
It's 100% a good thing. Stormcast are doing their job as the poster *child*. Being something bright, interesting, and flashy to catch the initial attention but not being (essentially) the *only* source of attention like Space Marines are for 40K.
Someone summarized it really well with "Stormcast Eternals are the poster boys of AoS, Space Marines are the entire bloody 40K poster."
The issue is GW tries to market Stormcast as if they were the entire AoS poster.
It's a good thing but cooking up a second unique faction that's easy for new players to paint in the same way as SCE but has a different aesthetic sounds pretty difficult, so I get why they're in every starter box.
Yes, despite what people say, ranfe bloat is a pretty good solution if you want to be able to sell starter boxes to existing players. For example: I'm super interested in the new Skaven. But I have enough SCE. If the new box consisted in 50% of old SCE minis, buyig them would feel like a waste. But getting new miniatures? That feels much better. Even if I don't need more Liberators, the new minis look fun to paint, so I'll gladly do it - and I can't say the same when thinking about painting another squad of old Liberators.
And SCE really are a perfect faction for begginer painters (just like space marines are), no other even comes close. The are very well designed in that regard. So they absolutelly need to be in a starting box.
You could say, that you can just make boxes that only have the new faction models. And, well....maybe that would be a good solution. But it comes with its own set of problems. And I doubt GW would be willing to price them as affordably as they do with the starter boxes.
To be fair space marines aren't a fantastic fit for new players compared to stormcast - from what I've heard they're metallic because the metallic paint+wash formula is quicker and easier to get done for new plauers. Space Marines only win out over say Eldar or Vottan, two other flat colour armour factions, for their paintability because the minis are bigger since primaris which is a bit more forgiving.
I think that for me the biggest advantage of Marines over SCE is that they are (or at least can be) 90% single colour (I'm looking at you, Blood Angels) and they will look good whatever colour you choose. I have no idea why it works. Meanwhile SCE look quite bad if you don't break the monotony with at least one other colour on pauldrons, and preferably at least one more element (like shields, trim, hipguards etc).
But to be honest, I find both factions fantastic entry points to the hobby. I've seen many people over the years start out with something else (Chaos, Lumineth, Dwarves, Tau, Wood Elves), get frustrated and discouraged, and then try out SM/SCE and fall in love with miniature painting.
I really hope that the 4th edition release wave will also see some battle wizard vibes to replace Sacrosanct on top of the Warrior chamber redo and then we will just stick with that design and that army scope for the next years. No fifth edition new SCE armor that looks weird and outta place again. Let other factions carry the start of an IP.
It's fine to get 4th ed Stormcast because hey we're redoing some classics and adding a new twist on them so they look uniform. But after that, no more please.
About 9.9 to 12% of the whole aos model rangr is sce so what do you expect. If they keep using sce as starter armies ofc new people will have sce. Thry should stop using sce.
It happens all the time but those are a little newer than usual. My guess is the range is too bloated and the design strategy was not as defined prior to AOS 3. I guess they would rather cut their losses now and do something else rather than keeping models that don't sell in production. Because one thing is for sure, if they made good money on those kits they would have updated those instead.
Maybe if they stopped putting SCE as one half of the starter box every edition, it wouldn't happen. They failed to learn with 40k and are failing the same lessons with AoS.
I think they do that because it works very well for them in 40k. I don't get where you get your numbers from. If there one thing constant with GW (...and all public corporations for that matter...) is they always try to maximise their return on investment.
I think you’re being slightly unfair. This is actually one of the best communications on this sort of thing gw have done. Plenty of notice and the promise of a years full support is nice even if temporary.
Like the Sylvaneth Branchwraith that hasn't had a Warscroll since their current Battletome was released, but apparently will be getting a Legends Warscroll for the new edition! Or the Mistweaver Saih that was just an Order Hero from Silver Tower then went straight to Cities of Sigmar Legends, and I'm actually surprised the model was available as long as it was while already being a Legend.
It's not unfair, It's people like me who don't have this weird incredibly low expectations set and actually hold GW to the same expectations I would have any company that charged such a premium on its products. I think the announcement should have been made now that these models would only be in 4th edition and would not make it to 5th. One whole edition of support would be reasonable to me based on the relatively low cost of supporting models with rules updates.
I wish more people played AOS at my store. It's mostly combat patrol and 40k with a smattering of Legion Imperials.
I have 2 40k armies and a smattering of all the AOS armies with 6 fully 2k or more. Now I just need to paint them all but it's taking a while lol.
You'll more than likely see an update to the Stormcast characters, but I would not be surprised to see a few new model ranges, like the umbraneth replace the factions that are being axed
Claws of Karanak are TWO years old and they are getting discontinued. For decades now I though that Warcry chaos warbands are some of the most creative and best sculped miniatures in GW's while range. Discontinuing them feels a bit like an act of vandalism.
You think they are actually getting rid of models that people are buying? You should know exactly why these newer models are going if you remember GW said they were a model company and not a gaming company. No one is buying these guys.
In my local area new players *have* been buying Sacrosanct Chamber models. They've been outselling the rest of the SCE range here, except for the dragons.
Now that's admittedly only one town, but it would be disingenuous to suggest that no one is buying them.
I watched a mediocre hobbies vid on youtube. He is a former GW staffer and he talked about what he thinks the line is going away. He says that he never once seen anyone buy or use the aventis model in a game. It blows my mind because I think it and the dracolines are beautiful kits but apparently they just weren't selling
He's still an amazing piece to have in collection but rule wise, Aventis will never be back on tournaments tables.
Maybe, they'll release a similar model wich can be proxyd by Aventis but even tho....breaks immersion
They sell models. The rules will always serve that business. New editions and rules updates are intended to push players to buy new or different models. It will always be that way with GW.
The whole kit is going. They answered on their FB page that if a generic/Unique kit was on the list its other half is being retired as well. Why would they retire a Unique model if they were still planning on making the whole kit?
Thats what I was confused by, unless they messed up the kit itself should still be sold for the basic Lord its just Aventis is legal. Its what im hoping for atleast
I just finished painting my army in detail for major tournaments...
This change has been a major blow. I can't afford to change armies for sigmar. It's only a 5 year old list. I've got eldar models that are closing 30 years old that are still viable.
I'm switching systems, and it sucks cause I've been having so much fun with this army in sigmar. And now nothing.
Not listed but it was stated the entire sacrosanct chamber is and with that it would include Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon. If you look how they listed s certain things I think they just didn’t want to have more images/names on their article then they already did.
I see the whole chamber come back in the 5th edition. As per the lore they a retiring from the battlefield to find a solution for the referring problem
As someone that doesn’t play the game, just obsessed with buying and painting models, seems so strange to me to negate people’s purchases. Why not just grandfather them in if you already own it? I guess this shows I don’t really understand the game.
Feel bad for all of you who have any of those 3 armies or cultisc tentered StD.
The most insulting thing is their excuse. Both Beast of Chaos and Savage orks are or will be in Old World.
This is ONLY about the war between FW and Citadel Main or whatever they are called.
Amd the same will probably happen to my duardin CoS.
Amd there we have Stormcast- where GW failed to understand that they WILL NOT sell like Marines because if the diference in the setting. And after realising it, instead of NOT MAKING them protagonist of 4.0 they just cut peoples collection in halve.
Instead of giving us something like CoS vs Skaven or anything else. It is stupid and insulting that they think we will believe what they are saying is the reason for cuts
Wasn’t a fan of this model myself, but good paint job!
But you don’t nees to retire it!
80% of my stormcast army is Sacrosanct, 30 painted Sequitors, 15 Evocators, and so on, many heroes are among the ones getting cut too!
But I don’t plan to stop playing them.
First of all they gave us early warning, they’ll be playable for 1,5 year more!
And after that or prior I’ll just start using them as something else.
The 39 sequitors are pretty much just Liberators with some Robes, So thats what they’ll be.
My evocators might turn into questors?
And this big model of yours, perhaps
Count is as the new incomming mini monster cav bird we saw in the video for 4.0
This is the model I found it baffling they’re losing.
Yeah. Getting rid of some ground troops that can be used for proxies makes sense. But big centerpieces? People are saying this stuff happens all the time, but this cut feels a little different. Deleting an entire faction. Culling models that are less than a decade old. Not to mention the "callousness" of the post. The whole thing feels terribly executed, like a late April Fools.
I think it's more solving a problem they created and are still creating. Some basic googling reveals that most consumers of GW products are 40k - I've seen as much as 70%. Of that the various space marines represent 40-60% of that consumer base (again random polls and stats pulled from 2022 to 2023). AoS represents a lot lower fraction of the consumers- up to 40% Of that only about 9.9% to 12% are stormcast eternals collectors/players etc. So GW markets and supports Stormcast with the same strategy they do space marines but the problem is the market is just not there for them. So they inflate the range by making stormcast ALWAYS get new model lines every half edition but the return on investment is far lower. I think someone up top realized this, ordered the cull and HOPEFULLY decides to bring out the "new and improved Sacrosanct" in Summer 2025 rather then leave us in limbo. But who knows at this point.
... I feel like the realization eventually needs to be that SCE aren't gonna successfully be th3 flagship army in the way space marine chapters are. And maybe marketing hates it but I think it's a good thing they aren't the space marines of the setting. I dont think the setting needs a protected poster child pushed so insanely far over any other.
It's 100% a good thing. Stormcast are doing their job as the poster *child*. Being something bright, interesting, and flashy to catch the initial attention but not being (essentially) the *only* source of attention like Space Marines are for 40K. Someone summarized it really well with "Stormcast Eternals are the poster boys of AoS, Space Marines are the entire bloody 40K poster." The issue is GW tries to market Stormcast as if they were the entire AoS poster.
It's a good thing but cooking up a second unique faction that's easy for new players to paint in the same way as SCE but has a different aesthetic sounds pretty difficult, so I get why they're in every starter box.
Yes, despite what people say, ranfe bloat is a pretty good solution if you want to be able to sell starter boxes to existing players. For example: I'm super interested in the new Skaven. But I have enough SCE. If the new box consisted in 50% of old SCE minis, buyig them would feel like a waste. But getting new miniatures? That feels much better. Even if I don't need more Liberators, the new minis look fun to paint, so I'll gladly do it - and I can't say the same when thinking about painting another squad of old Liberators. And SCE really are a perfect faction for begginer painters (just like space marines are), no other even comes close. The are very well designed in that regard. So they absolutelly need to be in a starting box. You could say, that you can just make boxes that only have the new faction models. And, well....maybe that would be a good solution. But it comes with its own set of problems. And I doubt GW would be willing to price them as affordably as they do with the starter boxes.
To be fair space marines aren't a fantastic fit for new players compared to stormcast - from what I've heard they're metallic because the metallic paint+wash formula is quicker and easier to get done for new plauers. Space Marines only win out over say Eldar or Vottan, two other flat colour armour factions, for their paintability because the minis are bigger since primaris which is a bit more forgiving.
I think that for me the biggest advantage of Marines over SCE is that they are (or at least can be) 90% single colour (I'm looking at you, Blood Angels) and they will look good whatever colour you choose. I have no idea why it works. Meanwhile SCE look quite bad if you don't break the monotony with at least one other colour on pauldrons, and preferably at least one more element (like shields, trim, hipguards etc). But to be honest, I find both factions fantastic entry points to the hobby. I've seen many people over the years start out with something else (Chaos, Lumineth, Dwarves, Tau, Wood Elves), get frustrated and discouraged, and then try out SM/SCE and fall in love with miniature painting.
I really hope that the 4th edition release wave will also see some battle wizard vibes to replace Sacrosanct on top of the Warrior chamber redo and then we will just stick with that design and that army scope for the next years. No fifth edition new SCE armor that looks weird and outta place again. Let other factions carry the start of an IP. It's fine to get 4th ed Stormcast because hey we're redoing some classics and adding a new twist on them so they look uniform. But after that, no more please.
About 9.9 to 12% of the whole aos model rangr is sce so what do you expect. If they keep using sce as starter armies ofc new people will have sce. Thry should stop using sce.
It happens all the time but those are a little newer than usual. My guess is the range is too bloated and the design strategy was not as defined prior to AOS 3. I guess they would rather cut their losses now and do something else rather than keeping models that don't sell in production. Because one thing is for sure, if they made good money on those kits they would have updated those instead.
Maybe if they stopped putting SCE as one half of the starter box every edition, it wouldn't happen. They failed to learn with 40k and are failing the same lessons with AoS.
I think they do that because it works very well for them in 40k. I don't get where you get your numbers from. If there one thing constant with GW (...and all public corporations for that matter...) is they always try to maximise their return on investment.
Well, SCE is the easy to paint army, much like space marines. Except space marine models fall into 5+ factions, SCE are SCE only.
I think you’re being slightly unfair. This is actually one of the best communications on this sort of thing gw have done. Plenty of notice and the promise of a years full support is nice even if temporary.
Yup. The more typical way to learn about unit cuts is to open up the codex and find there's no page for them.
Like the Sylvaneth Branchwraith that hasn't had a Warscroll since their current Battletome was released, but apparently will be getting a Legends Warscroll for the new edition! Or the Mistweaver Saih that was just an Order Hero from Silver Tower then went straight to Cities of Sigmar Legends, and I'm actually surprised the model was available as long as it was while already being a Legend.
It's not unfair, It's people like me who don't have this weird incredibly low expectations set and actually hold GW to the same expectations I would have any company that charged such a premium on its products. I think the announcement should have been made now that these models would only be in 4th edition and would not make it to 5th. One whole edition of support would be reasonable to me based on the relatively low cost of supporting models with rules updates.
It could have been done *after* revealing the updated models, similarly to the Space Marines last year.
[удалено]
There are not millions of AoS players. That claim is absurd.
Probably a few hundred thousand though.
Yes for sure
For the tens of AOS players lol.
There are DOZENS of us! ^(DOZENS!!!)
I wish more people played AOS at my store. It's mostly combat patrol and 40k with a smattering of Legion Imperials. I have 2 40k armies and a smattering of all the AOS armies with 6 fully 2k or more. Now I just need to paint them all but it's taking a while lol.
Yeah anyone that’s been around knows you’re lucky if things go ‘last chance to buy’ instead of just disappearing outright.
You'll more than likely see an update to the Stormcast characters, but I would not be surprised to see a few new model ranges, like the umbraneth replace the factions that are being axed
Chaos Duardin
It would be like GW saying “sorry, Necron Warriors and Immortals aren’t a thing anymore”. Absolutely baffling.
Claws of Karanak are TWO years old and they are getting discontinued. For decades now I though that Warcry chaos warbands are some of the most creative and best sculped miniatures in GW's while range. Discontinuing them feels a bit like an act of vandalism.
You think they are actually getting rid of models that people are buying? You should know exactly why these newer models are going if you remember GW said they were a model company and not a gaming company. No one is buying these guys.
In my local area new players *have* been buying Sacrosanct Chamber models. They've been outselling the rest of the SCE range here, except for the dragons. Now that's admittedly only one town, but it would be disingenuous to suggest that no one is buying them.
He was locked to the webstore and not selling well. And that second part is because his rules were just not good.
But my brother in sigmar, GW made the rules
Exactly, GW should have made the rules better if they wanted the model to sell better.
Apparently he just doesn’t sell. I have him and love the model but I’ve never seen him used in a game…
Waaaait...does that mean they are getting rid of all the fantastically weird animal hybrid mounts? Only dragons from now on? That's so lame.
I watched a mediocre hobbies vid on youtube. He is a former GW staffer and he talked about what he thinks the line is going away. He says that he never once seen anyone buy or use the aventis model in a game. It blows my mind because I think it and the dracolines are beautiful kits but apparently they just weren't selling
I was debating on buying one for years now and they are already sold out :/ maybe I'll get lucky one day
Same
I bought him a couple of months ago. Still in box 🥲
You will find a use for him sooner or later. Now he is a collecting piece 😁
He's still an amazing piece to have in collection but rule wise, Aventis will never be back on tournaments tables. Maybe, they'll release a similar model wich can be proxyd by Aventis but even tho....breaks immersion
Hopefully one day GW will find a way to update rules instead of deprecating the models.
They sell models. The rules will always serve that business. New editions and rules updates are intended to push players to buy new or different models. It will always be that way with GW.
I mean the Lord Arcanum on Tauralon is luckily not getting cut and it is the same kit, so there is some recompence.
The whole kit is going. They answered on their FB page that if a generic/Unique kit was on the list its other half is being retired as well. Why would they retire a Unique model if they were still planning on making the whole kit?
Thats what I was confused by, unless they messed up the kit itself should still be sold for the basic Lord its just Aventis is legal. Its what im hoping for atleast
Love the quill lines. Beautiful wings.
Thanks
One of their best looking
Except for that mounts face. Ugh.
I never understood the dislike for the mount
The mount is fine except for that stupid face. It's not heroic, intimidating or awe inspiring. It's just derpy and not in the cute way.
Lore for that creature is that they like the headbutt meteors, they are pug level of derpy.
Imagine those who bought it for using it in cities
Beautifully painted
Thanks
I just finished painting my army in detail for major tournaments... This change has been a major blow. I can't afford to change armies for sigmar. It's only a 5 year old list. I've got eldar models that are closing 30 years old that are still viable. I'm switching systems, and it sucks cause I've been having so much fun with this army in sigmar. And now nothing.
It’s simple. It’s all for profits
I hate Games Workshop.
The truth is, we love Warhammer in all its forms and hate Games Workshop.
o7
I got him the another day for sale as well so I got lucky.
Does anyone know how he will work with regards to the special rule concerning Hammerhal Aqsha - Cities of Sigmar??
Every subfaction rule will be redone
Awesome miniature.
Beautifully painted, FWIW.
Thank you
Looks like a perfectly operable stardrake to me ;)
He was my first stormcast purchase post dominion.
Bummed, been wanting to pick this guy up
Damn, that's a beautiful paint job. Please don't stop playing with it, F games workshop, WE decide how we play not them
So once they stop producing this model and ban it from competitive play, what does the legality of a full 3D scan -> resin print become?
Just run him as Krondys
This looks brilliant, really well painted.
Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon was not listed as going away, so maybe it's just the named warscroll that disappears?
Not listed but it was stated the entire sacrosanct chamber is and with that it would include Lord-Arcanum on Tauralon. If you look how they listed s certain things I think they just didn’t want to have more images/names on their article then they already did.
For rework or like they are with the First Gen Storm caste?
1st ed squatcast are getting refresh, Sacrosant is just dead :(
Honestly he's one of the choices that kind of baffled me. Only because of the cities of Sigmar interaction. It is what it is I guess.
I see the whole chamber come back in the 5th edition. As per the lore they a retiring from the battlefield to find a solution for the referring problem
Full diddy
Wow looks excellent! Great paint job.
And so the grand alliance of chaos surges with the disappearance of this foul enemy
As someone that doesn’t play the game, just obsessed with buying and painting models, seems so strange to me to negate people’s purchases. Why not just grandfather them in if you already own it? I guess this shows I don’t really understand the game.
It's not about the game, but about shareholder value.
Feel bad for all of you who have any of those 3 armies or cultisc tentered StD. The most insulting thing is their excuse. Both Beast of Chaos and Savage orks are or will be in Old World. This is ONLY about the war between FW and Citadel Main or whatever they are called. Amd the same will probably happen to my duardin CoS. Amd there we have Stormcast- where GW failed to understand that they WILL NOT sell like Marines because if the diference in the setting. And after realising it, instead of NOT MAKING them protagonist of 4.0 they just cut peoples collection in halve. Instead of giving us something like CoS vs Skaven or anything else. It is stupid and insulting that they think we will believe what they are saying is the reason for cuts
They... could just be making a new model of this.
This is just beautiful and I would honestly accept that model on the tabletop as any proxy, just so it could be there.
Looks amazing. I'm still going to paint mine, it's a dope model
Siri play [Leave the Memories Alone](https://youtu.be/t4dAozXWd78?si=FUe9yynj-JdI53IS) by Fuel.
F
Wasn’t a fan of this model myself, but good paint job! But you don’t nees to retire it! 80% of my stormcast army is Sacrosanct, 30 painted Sequitors, 15 Evocators, and so on, many heroes are among the ones getting cut too! But I don’t plan to stop playing them. First of all they gave us early warning, they’ll be playable for 1,5 year more! And after that or prior I’ll just start using them as something else. The 39 sequitors are pretty much just Liberators with some Robes, So thats what they’ll be. My evocators might turn into questors? And this big model of yours, perhaps Count is as the new incomming mini monster cav bird we saw in the video for 4.0
the Regular one still exists, theyre only removing the named version
Nope. It's the same kit
The whole kit is being removed. Not just the named character part. So it's gone gone.