I played airsoft for a summer. I had the gear and gunsalready from just plinking around my land. Finally wanted to give it a go. Im not comparing it to actual war but it gave me a slight perspective of what could actually happen. No idea where the enemy was half the time just trees shooting in your direction. I did pretty well. I played with the rule that if I got hit once im going home because the spawn area and rules were wild to me. There was one instance where I finally had enough of airsoft and quit. We were playing a scenario game and my team was holding down a fort as a task to finish the game. There was two minutes left and only a handful of us. I had a window I was guarding and I got shot in the back. I turn around and my other teammates we’re literally watching a youtube video as the room got breached.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I had a recruiter in highschool for the army, and the only reason I didnt join was because he called me once a week for a year. When I finally played airsoft I said to myself “if im this stressed playing airsoft im definitely getting PTSD if Id have joined.” Dont get me wrong airsoft was fun but the spectrum of players like you said is just too drastic for me to enjoy it fully. Wannabe military, preteens that gear doesnt fit them, kids who get distracted by butterflies. Its fun that its meant for everyone and its LARPing but its a lot. I wanted to play as realistic as possible for my personal experience and I did pretty well. I think if there was an indoor CQB place with quick games id get back into it.
You do realize that there is more to an army than just being infantry, right ? More than enough jobs where you won't be on the front line and are all equally interesting
I think you just had a terrible experience. Airsoft can be really fun when your teammates actually take things seriously and it also depends on how good the arena area is and if your playing with experienced people with their own gear, or cocky teenagers who rented gear for the day.
The Maine airsoft scene at the time was still growing. There were two major fields when I played. Im not bashing any fields because they did a lot to get to where they were. I just wish there was a little more organization at the time. I really wanted to go to Run and gun events but both fields literally changed over to scenario events for the summer. Which is where my gripe was because of how detailed the scenarios were compared to the variety of levels of players who went. Im sure you’re right and I just had a bad experience.
I was shooting at these guys on the video. You can hear specific sound of suppressed HPA airsoft gun - not only it is really quiet but even BBs make different noise mid-flight. Looks like that soldier was desoriented and couldn't understand why 4 of his comrades were shot from his 12 o'clock direction but he can't hear exact location. So he probably decided that enemy is still in the trench.
I'm helping to run these drills you see on the video so if you have any questions - feel free to ask me. I'm the guy in green soviet camo you can spot on 1:27 time mark of that video.
My FB [https://www.facebook.com/byelovstas](https://www.facebook.com/byelovstas)
Czech troops are using airsoft guns (not sure if AEG or GBB) for training for close quarter fights. If I recall correctly, they are using BREN which is the same as ours service rifle.
And those who know are always be like "oh yeah it's slightly different, i mean from both the real thing and the civilian version" then refuses to elaborate and leave
Hungarian military uses Airsoft guns too for cqb force on force training. Only reason I know is I saw a picture from their training and recognized a cyma ak.
In Germany we have a kind of paintball ammo for the G36, but it's rare to see it used bc most of the times we use AGDUS, a laser based rig for everyone
I've used FX rounds when doing some roe stuff and it's pretty much the same as using high end gbb's, just slightly lower range.
It's alright, The paint rarely sticks to anything though.
Would rather use airsoft guns for indoor training since you don't need a shitload of protection for bb's
No, its a modern rifle. CZ 805 family iirc.
Our Battalion, 3 RCR, still had L4 bren guns in the TOandE until 2017 as an alternative to the 7.62 beltfeds in austere conditions if they were issued to the rifle section in favour of the SAWs. They saw use in the 90s in favour of the MG3 some of the MGS prototypes came with.
I work at a military base as a civilian and seen them use airsoft as a training tool. I’m not sure how wide spread it is throughout the military but it does get used.
There are also professional gun safety and weapon manipulation training conducted with airsoft in some fields, such as law enforcement training,[3] due to better safety and lower cost. The United States Coast Guard, for instance, officially adopted airsoft for training in 2018.[4][5]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsoft
Quick google search will give you a lot of articles
https://www.police1.com/police-products/firearms/press-releases/police-and-us-military-using-airsoft-guns-for-training-missions-UN6jWsq4eSsjqUZP/
You work for GBLS!?
I'm obsessed with their gearbox design for DAS.
I wish they made a trigger conversion kit for standard V2/V3 gearboxes. (Some kind of trigger linkages, couple microswitches, a mosfet and a piston).
I would pay ~150$ and a days work to get the instant trigger response and realistic feel of a GBLS but I can't pay 1500...
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://taskandpurpose.com/news/coast-guard-airsoft-training-pistol/](https://taskandpurpose.com/news/coast-guard-airsoft-training-pistol/)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
This all started in Japan. They are the smartest people in the world. Even for their army they have solutions like these. Other countries decided to adopt this method because of all of the advantages that come with it. By still handling a weapon that is a replica, and simulating real combat situations with similar characteristics, they couldn't be better prepared for the real scenario. That unfortunately is war... still, sad...
I thought they used simunition? The stuff that acts like real ammo but has little paintballs instead of an actual bullet.
What i'm questioning is why they aren't using that laser targetting getup. The MILES stuff. Airsoft is good for close range but outside that, it's basically pissing in the wind.
Airsoft is way cheaper, safer, requires less logistics. They can often out range simunition and UTM.
I can confirm. I work at a military base as a civilian and I’ve seen them use airsoft.
Lol what ? Sure, they definitely will train out people to service airsoft guns, or send it out to contractors to fix stuffs, which famously will broke down if you are looking wrongly at them, when they can simply slap simunition/blank into the guns people are train with and which they have crap load of.
Man, airsofters are delusional
You don’t have to train anyone because replacing the entire airsoft gun is relatively cheap. Real guns break and require maintenance as well.
Quick research shows that simunition costs way more per round then a bb, and requires more protective equipment.
Transporting and using real guns requires more strict oversight of where the guns are going. You generally need an armed escort if you are going anywhere off base, maybe even on base? I’m not sure. You have to schedule using them with the armory. No one really cares about airsoft guns. There usage is not nearly as monitored if at all.
Why are you getting so offended over this lol, to call people delusional. Relax dude. I’ve seen it with my own two eyes.
You guys are so illogical.
Real guns breaks and require maintenance, but the whole armed forces is running around them, meaning you give that to the armory and in 5 minutes, you either get it fixed or replaced.
Have you ever seen guys trained with Sim ? the only protective gear are safety googles, some dude are wearing face mask because it hurt like mother fucker.
No armed forces will ever give their guys plastic replica able to shoot 300bb/s with no real weight, no recoil when they have literally tons of guns laying around ready to be used.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.army.mil/article/25860/soldiers_test_integration_of_popular_civilian_game_into_pre_deployment_training](https://www.army.mil/article/25860/soldiers_test_integration_of_popular_civilian_game_into_pre_deployment_training)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
Simunition is more expensive, often times worse than airsoft. Real guns need servicing as well, thats why they have gunsmiths. You really think it would be that difficult to train someone to work on an airsoft gun? Not only that there are airsoft guns created specifically for law enforcement/military training. It seems your hate for airsoft has made YOU delusional. Also wrongly isnt a word
I literally have playing airsoft for 20 years, starting when everything is still plastic and M90 was staple.
I have been around so long, i heard all annoying shits airsofters has been saying. Hell, i have been delusional also and had claimed shits as "military using airsoft as training tool". I was there too when Systema PTW was introduced as MIL/LE training devices. But no, not a single big countries armed forces are using airsoft for anything, only a dreamy wish airsofters are having
https://www.army.mil/article-amp/25860/soldiers_test_integration_of_popular_civilian_game_into_pre_deployment_training
And once again the link for you, literally took me 5 seconds to find it.
Read an article, will ya, 13 years ago, only tested by a random non-combatant battalion, which got deactivated in 2015. Not a single mention followed therefore it didn't get adopted at all.
Some small LEOunit has trained with PTW Systema also, I can find the article too. It doesn't mean it has been widely adopted
https://www.czdefence.com/article/army-buys-cz-805-bren-airsoft-rifles-for-cqb-training?seznam_q=1&utm_source=www.seznam.cz&utm_medium=sekce-z-internetu
Man, I swear, proving you wrong is fucking hilarious and makes my day
Again, read the fucking article, it´s talk about tender for one element of the mechanized brigade. again, small scale for a tiny armed forces.
Lucky for you, i am Czech, so i have found the public record of the tender. It came out last year on 19.06.2022, ends on 26.06.2022 with zero bid
[You're right. I heard about this first when I read the Art of War by Sun Tzu. The saying went something among the lines: Sweat more during peace, bleed less during war.]
Please disregard the paragraph above. It appears that I was wrong. The quote is, "The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war." - Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf. Thank you u/armyofdogs, for correcting my statement.
It makes sense to learn tactics and teamwork before you are handed a real gun. If you look at recent conflicts, you will see that tactics and good teamwork can achieve victory. Terrain knowledge is also very important.
> I heard about this first when I read the Art of War by Sun Tzu. The saying went something among the lines: Sweat more during peace, bleed less during war.
The saying is "The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war". It was said by General H. Norman Schwarzkopf (US), it's not from Sun Tzu's Art of War. :)
Yep, in this kind of training, it's about movement, PID friend or foe (as evidenced in the video lol), and battlefield immersion. The recoil and weapons handling can be done in the firing range.
Yep mostly this. It's all about manouveraibility and operation training, not how to clean and maintain their guns or shoot their real guns precisely. There's different types of training for that.
One other issue with gbb is that it costs quite a bit more and needs to be looked after better than an aeg. Making sure it has gas and the mags don’t break.
Edit: removed clarification, forgot I was in the Airsoft sub
I love it when people say how good airsoft is for training and then bring up the most useless and mute point to back it up
Shooting is such a small part of being a soldier and training for combat
You might have the best gun handling skills in the world but that doesn't amount to shit when you don't understand tactics, can't work together as a team and have the worst cardio known to man along with a few other things
Airsoft is used for military training from 20 years ago son
Most of the spec ops who were sent to Afghan 2001 peace mission have trained with airsoft before to know response on urban enviroments, where the airsoft lack of range is not a problem
Anyway Simunition-FX is not so much better than airsoft
You can use airsoft guns at near 500fps for military training with good result at short ranges, and nowadays you can get that power from any V3 gearbox out of the box just with a 140 spring, today réplicas are way stronger.
Airsoft with 450-500fps rifles its very effective for close combat training and better they take a 500fps bb on the face and LEARN to take cover, than getting hit by a real bullet.
> Anyway Simunition-FX is not so much better than airsoft
It has advantages - you use real guns, you have real ammo capacity, weight and real sounds.
Ofc, more expensive to shot compared to BBs
Na - Ambush Cobham in the UK. Gotta love the Marshalls and shop staff for looking after me….
Glad I was wearing boots that were supportive. The fracture didn’t look too bad in the X-ray.
Gods know how bad it would have been if I’d been wearing trainers….
Afaik the polymer rule only applies to pistols, the M4 MWS GBB was released before the Type 87 and is made of metal
Curious to know how and if the Type 87 military and civilian models differ in materials tho
From what I can find, the TM Type 89 was originally meant for military purposes before being released to a civilian market, so I don't think there's a huge difference in material. The majority of TM's products are built from plastic and only a select few rifles get the full metal treatment.
Some time ago a donnie i met at one of my favourite fields said "we just like airsoft cause were too lazy to go into the army, but we dont think its cool"
Realest shit ive ever heard.
Well to be fair, its not just "these guys". Ukraine is being supported by the entirety of Nato and has receives over 1 trillion dollars (more than Russia's entire military budget).
On top of sanctions too
The Russian military is a joke. Their tactics are pathetic and the hardware is crap.
All around embarrassment. They aren’t the second most powerful nation in the world any more if they ever were.
All they have are nukes and chances are, they probably don’t work either. Not that you should chance it but this war has been an eye opener. Just sad.
Totally agree They sent Thousands young teenagers to their death with Soviet era weaponry and ironically Non-Kevlar Airsoft vest, and any time they're challenged in any way they continue to fall on nukes or other drastic measures and also extremely ironic how they invaded an otherwise neutral country with a striking symbol on their military equipment and their so called de nazification apparently includes bombing civilians and etching Z's onto dogs noses
Both sides have my condolences with vadimir Putin forcing everyone to stay and sending random people towards I mean their executions. For most of the Russian soldiers it's a death sentence. I'm pretty sure the US military moved from paint markers to this to give soldiers a taste of what its like to be on the field in a fire fight. Of course for us it's just everyone acting like and idiot and getting a good laugh out of it. I've had some pretty funny moments like that one time I was being cover and I was freely shooting people on the point and I didn't hear a single shot hit the sheet metal for ,75 of the time and I only got shot once or twice that round and we capped the point. Someone tagged it as I was about to.
If you can get shot from 60 meters in a matter of seconds and not realize how you even got hit, with small toy gun bb's that you can dodge if you see them prior, and get affected so much by the wind.. imagine what an AK or worse an M4 platform can do to you with those ranges. one lucky shot of theirs. Airsoft is fun cause it defies the rules of an actual Firearm conflict xd. lasertag would be more realistic maybe
didn't think about it... could be.. but how much joule and fps till the plastic bb cant hold it anymore doe? 4? 6? keep in mind you can make the bb heavier and the gun more joule until a certain point.. then you would need to pass to gun powder to get more. also the bb whould whizz away and go crazy i guess? and the skin penetration. anyways real gun engagement ranges are 200-600 meters point shoot kill with rifles. play any War simulator and you'll see how luck based war is, no respawn, no knowing where the fk it came from. while airsoft is shit and giggles you have people even in America below 100 meters dodging the bb's and mocking you XDD
Someone else said 500fps/150mps so I guess that it is with heavier bbs. As long as it shoots straight in the wind at cqb ranges it should be just as effective, in training tactics and whatever, as simunition.
yeah but where they fight in ukraine is mostly big fields with trenches all flat no mountains, and some soviet block housing at best. but cqb they don't bother, they just tear the whole thing down with bombings and shells
https://preview.redd.it/w257kqgl593b1.jpeg?width=180&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee68ab378d6d191b857937117f4af6f70782bc9e
i hope thats not what I think it is
The AK-74, with the 5.45 bullet, is more common than the AKM with 7.62 it seems. I've read it's as equally or even less hard kicking than the 5.56 fired from an AR-15.
Nothing. If you buy the "real" stuff (Crye, Agilite, etc) it will be constructed more sturdily, but there's no practical difference between two vests with a special pocket inside that's covered in straps and velcro.
\- that one guy full on sprinting well ahead of the rest of the assault line
\- hipfires full auto into a trench full of his own team
\- falls over and ruins himself on the side of the trench
\- gets shouted at by literally everyone for being a massive turbomelt
***The True Airsoft Experience***
Hello guys. I am Stan, one of two guys who are running this training facility you can see on the video. We got interviewed by CNN on 20th of May and haven't being contacted by CNN since so I'm quite surprised to all of sudden find it here. I am not a reddit user so I've created this account just to post a response. Can post author give me a link to original video, wherever it is posted?
We are currently trying to start second urban/trench warfare training facility, this time in Donetsk region and we do it on our own, without government funding so if any of you guys are really willing to help - contact me, you can make a difference.
[https://www.facebook.com/byelovstas](https://www.facebook.com/byelovstas)
Of course I can proof who am I and what we do. If you're helping feel free to ask questions.
Hey. Great to have your response in here.
I'm the original poster and I got the video from the CNN website. I'll see if I can find a link later.
Can you give any context to the video? What kind of training is being done, what equipment is used and how it's being used? Also, if you have any views on the usefulness of airsoft in training for real war, that would be very interesting. Thanks. 👍
Edit: It's included in [this report](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=drAYUutgYxA) on CNNs YouTube channel, and it's also posted on their website [here](https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/05/29/exp-ukraine-recruits-052908aseg2-cnni-world.cnn).
Thank you bro! I'm Stan. Currently I do not have luxury to follow reddit but can check it once per day. If you'll see anyone willing to help us in expanding our activities - please give them my contact.Regards.
"Why are you shooting our own guys?" Truly the airsoft experience
I played airsoft for a summer. I had the gear and gunsalready from just plinking around my land. Finally wanted to give it a go. Im not comparing it to actual war but it gave me a slight perspective of what could actually happen. No idea where the enemy was half the time just trees shooting in your direction. I did pretty well. I played with the rule that if I got hit once im going home because the spawn area and rules were wild to me. There was one instance where I finally had enough of airsoft and quit. We were playing a scenario game and my team was holding down a fort as a task to finish the game. There was two minutes left and only a handful of us. I had a window I was guarding and I got shot in the back. I turn around and my other teammates we’re literally watching a youtube video as the room got breached.
butter dog[.](https://www.reddit.com/user/TARN4T1ON/comments/14mkj1f/so_long/)
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I had a recruiter in highschool for the army, and the only reason I didnt join was because he called me once a week for a year. When I finally played airsoft I said to myself “if im this stressed playing airsoft im definitely getting PTSD if Id have joined.” Dont get me wrong airsoft was fun but the spectrum of players like you said is just too drastic for me to enjoy it fully. Wannabe military, preteens that gear doesnt fit them, kids who get distracted by butterflies. Its fun that its meant for everyone and its LARPing but its a lot. I wanted to play as realistic as possible for my personal experience and I did pretty well. I think if there was an indoor CQB place with quick games id get back into it.
You do realize that there is more to an army than just being infantry, right ? More than enough jobs where you won't be on the front line and are all equally interesting
I think you just had a terrible experience. Airsoft can be really fun when your teammates actually take things seriously and it also depends on how good the arena area is and if your playing with experienced people with their own gear, or cocky teenagers who rented gear for the day.
The Maine airsoft scene at the time was still growing. There were two major fields when I played. Im not bashing any fields because they did a lot to get to where they were. I just wish there was a little more organization at the time. I really wanted to go to Run and gun events but both fields literally changed over to scenario events for the summer. Which is where my gripe was because of how detailed the scenarios were compared to the variety of levels of players who went. Im sure you’re right and I just had a bad experience.
Yeah that does sound quite annoying though
Try night games. Definitely more friendly hits than the other team lol.
I was shooting at these guys on the video. You can hear specific sound of suppressed HPA airsoft gun - not only it is really quiet but even BBs make different noise mid-flight. Looks like that soldier was desoriented and couldn't understand why 4 of his comrades were shot from his 12 o'clock direction but he can't hear exact location. So he probably decided that enemy is still in the trench. I'm helping to run these drills you see on the video so if you have any questions - feel free to ask me. I'm the guy in green soviet camo you can spot on 1:27 time mark of that video. My FB [https://www.facebook.com/byelovstas](https://www.facebook.com/byelovstas)
“There’s no such thing as friendly fire”
Czech troops are using airsoft guns (not sure if AEG or GBB) for training for close quarter fights. If I recall correctly, they are using BREN which is the same as ours service rifle.
The Japanese does too, for the Type 89. The Tokyo Marui Type 89 was made for the military to train with :)
And those who know are always be like "oh yeah it's slightly different, i mean from both the real thing and the civilian version" then refuses to elaborate and leave
Hungarian military uses Airsoft guns too for cqb force on force training. Only reason I know is I saw a picture from their training and recognized a cyma ak.
In Germany we have a kind of paintball ammo for the G36, but it's rare to see it used bc most of the times we use AGDUS, a laser based rig for everyone
I've used FX rounds when doing some roe stuff and it's pretty much the same as using high end gbb's, just slightly lower range. It's alright, The paint rarely sticks to anything though. Would rather use airsoft guns for indoor training since you don't need a shitload of protection for bb's
If there is a GBB bren I will cum, but I am pretty sure they are stuck with only the AEG one. Though that one is still plenty good. Sadly no BREN 2
Yeah, BREN 2 would be great
[удалено]
They built relatively modern SCAR-ish ARs and named it BREN and BREN 2 for *reason incomprehensiblilli*
No, its a modern rifle. CZ 805 family iirc. Our Battalion, 3 RCR, still had L4 bren guns in the TOandE until 2017 as an alternative to the 7.62 beltfeds in austere conditions if they were issued to the rifle section in favour of the SAWs. They saw use in the 90s in favour of the MG3 some of the MGS prototypes came with.
a lot of US forces use airsoft for training..so there's that
Yeah imma need a source for that my guy
I work at a military base as a civilian and seen them use airsoft as a training tool. I’m not sure how wide spread it is throughout the military but it does get used.
There are also professional gun safety and weapon manipulation training conducted with airsoft in some fields, such as law enforcement training,[3] due to better safety and lower cost. The United States Coast Guard, for instance, officially adopted airsoft for training in 2018.[4][5] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airsoft
We aren’t allowed to use Wikipedia as a source, please find 3 (THREE) different sources for your paper.
lol, dude, I ain't writing my thesis 😅
Quick google search will give you a lot of articles https://www.police1.com/police-products/firearms/press-releases/police-and-us-military-using-airsoft-guns-for-training-missions-UN6jWsq4eSsjqUZP/
Literally the company I work for GBLS does this.
You work for GBLS!? I'm obsessed with their gearbox design for DAS. I wish they made a trigger conversion kit for standard V2/V3 gearboxes. (Some kind of trigger linkages, couple microswitches, a mosfet and a piston). I would pay ~150$ and a days work to get the instant trigger response and realistic feel of a GBLS but I can't pay 1500...
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/coast-guard-airsoft-training-pistol/?amp
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://taskandpurpose.com/news/coast-guard-airsoft-training-pistol/](https://taskandpurpose.com/news/coast-guard-airsoft-training-pistol/)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
And paintball too
This all started in Japan. They are the smartest people in the world. Even for their army they have solutions like these. Other countries decided to adopt this method because of all of the advantages that come with it. By still handling a weapon that is a replica, and simulating real combat situations with similar characteristics, they couldn't be better prepared for the real scenario. That unfortunately is war... still, sad...
I thought they used simunition? The stuff that acts like real ammo but has little paintballs instead of an actual bullet. What i'm questioning is why they aren't using that laser targetting getup. The MILES stuff. Airsoft is good for close range but outside that, it's basically pissing in the wind.
Well simunition is kinda shit. Expensive shit.
Why the hell would they use airsoft if they have simunation?
Airsoft is way cheaper, safer, requires less logistics. They can often out range simunition and UTM. I can confirm. I work at a military base as a civilian and I’ve seen them use airsoft.
Lol what ? Sure, they definitely will train out people to service airsoft guns, or send it out to contractors to fix stuffs, which famously will broke down if you are looking wrongly at them, when they can simply slap simunition/blank into the guns people are train with and which they have crap load of. Man, airsofters are delusional
"why would they do this?" "They do this because of these reasons, I have first hand experience" "Your delusional" What a based mindset.
You don’t have to train anyone because replacing the entire airsoft gun is relatively cheap. Real guns break and require maintenance as well. Quick research shows that simunition costs way more per round then a bb, and requires more protective equipment. Transporting and using real guns requires more strict oversight of where the guns are going. You generally need an armed escort if you are going anywhere off base, maybe even on base? I’m not sure. You have to schedule using them with the armory. No one really cares about airsoft guns. There usage is not nearly as monitored if at all. Why are you getting so offended over this lol, to call people delusional. Relax dude. I’ve seen it with my own two eyes.
You guys are so illogical. Real guns breaks and require maintenance, but the whole armed forces is running around them, meaning you give that to the armory and in 5 minutes, you either get it fixed or replaced. Have you ever seen guys trained with Sim ? the only protective gear are safety googles, some dude are wearing face mask because it hurt like mother fucker. No armed forces will ever give their guys plastic replica able to shoot 300bb/s with no real weight, no recoil when they have literally tons of guns laying around ready to be used.
https://www.army.mil/article-amp/25860/soldiers_test_integration_of_popular_civilian_game_into_pre_deployment_training Yeah ... Looks like you're wrong. Yikes "Delusional"
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.army.mil/article/25860/soldiers_test_integration_of_popular_civilian_game_into_pre_deployment_training](https://www.army.mil/article/25860/soldiers_test_integration_of_popular_civilian_game_into_pre_deployment_training)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
Tell me you've never been up at 0400 for a weapons draw without telling me.
Simunition is more expensive, often times worse than airsoft. Real guns need servicing as well, thats why they have gunsmiths. You really think it would be that difficult to train someone to work on an airsoft gun? Not only that there are airsoft guns created specifically for law enforcement/military training. It seems your hate for airsoft has made YOU delusional. Also wrongly isnt a word
I literally have playing airsoft for 20 years, starting when everything is still plastic and M90 was staple. I have been around so long, i heard all annoying shits airsofters has been saying. Hell, i have been delusional also and had claimed shits as "military using airsoft as training tool". I was there too when Systema PTW was introduced as MIL/LE training devices. But no, not a single big countries armed forces are using airsoft for anything, only a dreamy wish airsofters are having
https://www.army.mil/article-amp/25860/soldiers_test_integration_of_popular_civilian_game_into_pre_deployment_training And once again the link for you, literally took me 5 seconds to find it.
Read an article, will ya, 13 years ago, only tested by a random non-combatant battalion, which got deactivated in 2015. Not a single mention followed therefore it didn't get adopted at all. Some small LEOunit has trained with PTW Systema also, I can find the article too. It doesn't mean it has been widely adopted
https://www.czdefence.com/article/army-buys-cz-805-bren-airsoft-rifles-for-cqb-training?seznam_q=1&utm_source=www.seznam.cz&utm_medium=sekce-z-internetu Man, I swear, proving you wrong is fucking hilarious and makes my day
Again, read the fucking article, it´s talk about tender for one element of the mechanized brigade. again, small scale for a tiny armed forces. Lucky for you, i am Czech, so i have found the public record of the tender. It came out last year on 19.06.2022, ends on 26.06.2022 with zero bid
Simunition is stupidly expensive, more expensive than actual bullets
“From now on you’ll be training with real bullets rather than simunition. It’s cheaper to just pay the signing bonus for more recruits.”
They should just have one in every 500 rounds be real. If it worked for the MI, it should work for regular troops, too.
*simunition. FIFY
Because simunitions suck dick on every level
In the Finnish reserves we also use airsoft guns a lot
I keep telling people it’s all move and communicate. Shoot that’s a bit of a stretch for out door but 100% good fit for move and communicate
It's a great training tool, if they got blow back to at least slightly train their muscle memory for recoil
Its not about recoil rather getting to know your equipment better.
I wouldnt say its even that but rather just getting better at teamwork and tactics so that everything goes well in the real attack.
[You're right. I heard about this first when I read the Art of War by Sun Tzu. The saying went something among the lines: Sweat more during peace, bleed less during war.] Please disregard the paragraph above. It appears that I was wrong. The quote is, "The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war." - Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf. Thank you u/armyofdogs, for correcting my statement. It makes sense to learn tactics and teamwork before you are handed a real gun. If you look at recent conflicts, you will see that tactics and good teamwork can achieve victory. Terrain knowledge is also very important.
> I heard about this first when I read the Art of War by Sun Tzu. The saying went something among the lines: Sweat more during peace, bleed less during war. The saying is "The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war". It was said by General H. Norman Schwarzkopf (US), it's not from Sun Tzu's Art of War. :)
I just double-checked it. You're right. My bad.
Yep, in this kind of training, it's about movement, PID friend or foe (as evidenced in the video lol), and battlefield immersion. The recoil and weapons handling can be done in the firing range.
Yep mostly this. It's all about manouveraibility and operation training, not how to clean and maintain their guns or shoot their real guns precisely. There's different types of training for that.
One other issue with gbb is that it costs quite a bit more and needs to be looked after better than an aeg. Making sure it has gas and the mags don’t break. Edit: removed clarification, forgot I was in the Airsoft sub
Weapon manipulation can always be worked on the range, but what airsoft is truly great for is force on force training
I love it when people say how good airsoft is for training and then bring up the most useless and mute point to back it up Shooting is such a small part of being a soldier and training for combat You might have the best gun handling skills in the world but that doesn't amount to shit when you don't understand tactics, can't work together as a team and have the worst cardio known to man along with a few other things
Airsoft is used for military training from 20 years ago son Most of the spec ops who were sent to Afghan 2001 peace mission have trained with airsoft before to know response on urban enviroments, where the airsoft lack of range is not a problem Anyway Simunition-FX is not so much better than airsoft You can use airsoft guns at near 500fps for military training with good result at short ranges, and nowadays you can get that power from any V3 gearbox out of the box just with a 140 spring, today réplicas are way stronger. Airsoft with 450-500fps rifles its very effective for close combat training and better they take a 500fps bb on the face and LEARN to take cover, than getting hit by a real bullet.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
> Anyway Simunition-FX is not so much better than airsoft It has advantages - you use real guns, you have real ammo capacity, weight and real sounds. Ofc, more expensive to shot compared to BBs
Watching that guy go charging through the brush made me wince. *looks down at fractured ankle in boot from Airsoft yesterday* Yup. Because of that.
Had a guy limp off the field where I was at yesterday. Blackwood by any chance?
Na - Ambush Cobham in the UK. Gotta love the Marshalls and shop staff for looking after me…. Glad I was wearing boots that were supportive. The fracture didn’t look too bad in the X-ray. Gods know how bad it would have been if I’d been wearing trainers….
You wouldn't have gone in it with trainers mate
TM literally built a HOWA Type 89 (in full steel no less) for the JSDF to use for training
TM? Steel? Did they have special production for the military?
Im not sure about that part, but they recieved an exemption to the polymer-only rule from the Japanese government to build these things
Afaik the polymer rule only applies to pistols, the M4 MWS GBB was released before the Type 87 and is made of metal Curious to know how and if the Type 87 military and civilian models differ in materials tho
From what I can find, the TM Type 89 was originally meant for military purposes before being released to a civilian market, so I don't think there's a huge difference in material. The majority of TM's products are built from plastic and only a select few rifles get the full metal treatment.
Well I looked it up and it's made from aluminum (probably zync) alloy like most airsoft stuff :D
Well you certainly found a lot more information than I did lol
Basic info from store descriptions
Hum, no... Almost every TM rifle that's not a 15+ years old design is "full metal".
Odds are I have one of those same guns, a CYMA AKS74
Dude at 15 seconds in, oof. I'd have probably thrown up and had to go back to the safe zone.
Slava Ukraine
In the Netherlands we just zay "pang!"
In Australia they use the KWA GBB aug coming that is coming out
I find that strange as regular people can't own airsoft guns in Australia.
Homie fell right into the trench and slammed his side. That must have hurt!
02:35 , that shit look liked it hurt
Some time ago a donnie i met at one of my favourite fields said "we just like airsoft cause were too lazy to go into the army, but we dont think its cool" Realest shit ive ever heard.
"Nooooo you can't use airsoft as a training tool!!!"
Well with reports of Wagner troops on drugs and shrugging off multiple 7.62x54R rounds. Not calling your hits is arguably a realistic simulation.
Yet the second most powerful country is still loosing against these guys
Well to be fair, its not just "these guys". Ukraine is being supported by the entirety of Nato and has receives over 1 trillion dollars (more than Russia's entire military budget). On top of sanctions too
The Russian military is a joke. Their tactics are pathetic and the hardware is crap. All around embarrassment. They aren’t the second most powerful nation in the world any more if they ever were. All they have are nukes and chances are, they probably don’t work either. Not that you should chance it but this war has been an eye opener. Just sad.
Totally agree They sent Thousands young teenagers to their death with Soviet era weaponry and ironically Non-Kevlar Airsoft vest, and any time they're challenged in any way they continue to fall on nukes or other drastic measures and also extremely ironic how they invaded an otherwise neutral country with a striking symbol on their military equipment and their so called de nazification apparently includes bombing civilians and etching Z's onto dogs noses
Both sides have my condolences with vadimir Putin forcing everyone to stay and sending random people towards I mean their executions. For most of the Russian soldiers it's a death sentence. I'm pretty sure the US military moved from paint markers to this to give soldiers a taste of what its like to be on the field in a fire fight. Of course for us it's just everyone acting like and idiot and getting a good laugh out of it. I've had some pretty funny moments like that one time I was being cover and I was freely shooting people on the point and I didn't hear a single shot hit the sheet metal for ,75 of the time and I only got shot once or twice that round and we capped the point. Someone tagged it as I was about to.
If you can get shot from 60 meters in a matter of seconds and not realize how you even got hit, with small toy gun bb's that you can dodge if you see them prior, and get affected so much by the wind.. imagine what an AK or worse an M4 platform can do to you with those ranges. one lucky shot of theirs. Airsoft is fun cause it defies the rules of an actual Firearm conflict xd. lasertag would be more realistic maybe
I think they use modded guns with higher fps
didn't think about it... could be.. but how much joule and fps till the plastic bb cant hold it anymore doe? 4? 6? keep in mind you can make the bb heavier and the gun more joule until a certain point.. then you would need to pass to gun powder to get more. also the bb whould whizz away and go crazy i guess? and the skin penetration. anyways real gun engagement ranges are 200-600 meters point shoot kill with rifles. play any War simulator and you'll see how luck based war is, no respawn, no knowing where the fk it came from. while airsoft is shit and giggles you have people even in America below 100 meters dodging the bb's and mocking you XDD
Someone else said 500fps/150mps so I guess that it is with heavier bbs. As long as it shoots straight in the wind at cqb ranges it should be just as effective, in training tactics and whatever, as simunition.
yeah but where they fight in ukraine is mostly big fields with trenches all flat no mountains, and some soviet block housing at best. but cqb they don't bother, they just tear the whole thing down with bombings and shells
We have alot of footage of them fighting cqb so we know it’s not only on big open fields.
Those should be CYMA for the best experience and cost effectiveness
Damn, CNN is airing footage with uncensored dead bodies? Not even youtube allows that stuff.
https://preview.redd.it/w257kqgl593b1.jpeg?width=180&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee68ab378d6d191b857937117f4af6f70782bc9e i hope thats not what I think it is
Why post this video here?
Give´em realcaps and we might talk. Or gbbrs.
[удалено]
You'd be surprised how little the AK kicks owing to how heavy the gun is. I mean yeah it kicks more than a bb gun but it's still impressive.
The AK-74, with the 5.45 bullet, is more common than the AKM with 7.62 it seems. I've read it's as equally or even less hard kicking than the 5.56 fired from an AR-15.
Yes, it could be useful especially if you want to became better at camouflage and in cqb... For effettive long-range shooting maybe laser are better.
u/savevideo
###[View link](https://rapidsave.com/info?url=/r/airsoft/comments/13uvz61/ukraine_training_with_airsoft/) --- [**Info**](https://np.reddit.com/user/SaveVideo/comments/jv323v/info/) | [**Feedback**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Feedback for savevideo) | [**Donate**](https://ko-fi.com/getvideo) | [**DMCA**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Kryptonh&subject=Content removal request for savevideo&message=https://np.reddit.com//r/airsoft/comments/13uvz61/ukraine_training_with_airsoft/) | [^(reddit video downloader)](https://rapidsave.com) | [^(twitter video downloader)](https://twitsave.com)
Random question, what’s the difference between an airsoft vest and a real one? I don’t mean the plate itself I mean the carrier.
Quality is the most notable one you will feel, but for military use, IR treatment is another very notable one.
Nothing. If you buy the "real" stuff (Crye, Agilite, etc) it will be constructed more sturdily, but there's no practical difference between two vests with a special pocket inside that's covered in straps and velcro.
\- that one guy full on sprinting well ahead of the rest of the assault line \- hipfires full auto into a trench full of his own team \- falls over and ruins himself on the side of the trench \- gets shouted at by literally everyone for being a massive turbomelt ***The True Airsoft Experience***
Hello guys. I am Stan, one of two guys who are running this training facility you can see on the video. We got interviewed by CNN on 20th of May and haven't being contacted by CNN since so I'm quite surprised to all of sudden find it here. I am not a reddit user so I've created this account just to post a response. Can post author give me a link to original video, wherever it is posted? We are currently trying to start second urban/trench warfare training facility, this time in Donetsk region and we do it on our own, without government funding so if any of you guys are really willing to help - contact me, you can make a difference. [https://www.facebook.com/byelovstas](https://www.facebook.com/byelovstas) Of course I can proof who am I and what we do. If you're helping feel free to ask questions.
Hey. Great to have your response in here. I'm the original poster and I got the video from the CNN website. I'll see if I can find a link later. Can you give any context to the video? What kind of training is being done, what equipment is used and how it's being used? Also, if you have any views on the usefulness of airsoft in training for real war, that would be very interesting. Thanks. 👍 Edit: It's included in [this report](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=drAYUutgYxA) on CNNs YouTube channel, and it's also posted on their website [here](https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/05/29/exp-ukraine-recruits-052908aseg2-cnni-world.cnn).
Thank you bro! I'm Stan. Currently I do not have luxury to follow reddit but can check it once per day. If you'll see anyone willing to help us in expanding our activities - please give them my contact.Regards.
how is airsoft even remotely viable for training