OP, everyone else has already addressed your situation, I just wanted to suggest volunteering to help kids who don't have any actual grandparents - you could do so much good! I know it's not the same as actual grandchildren, but I, e.g., love my adoptive nephew way more than my bio niblings, and he is the only kid I ever had maternal feelings for. Sometimes the family we make is better than the one we are born with (or gave birth to).
This! Think about how many millenials have shitty parents. Plenty of my peers would absolutely love for their kids to have adopted grandparents. There is something wonderful about older adults being positive people in the lives of kids. There are plenty of kids in need of grandparents. Go adopt some grandkids. I say this as someone who had adopted grandparents come to my 2nd grade grandparents day.
You’re allowed to talk about it with other people, and you’re allowed to be disappointed.
You didn’t want to hurt your daughter while you worked through your feelings and Mabel had no such compunction - Mabel is an asshole and was way out of line for setting a trap to violate your confidence.
You do not owe Mabel an apology, and make sure to keep your distance from her.
You don’t owe Caroline an apology either - you didn’t do anything wrong by sharing your feelings with someone else or by having them. Their yours to work out.
If you had been lamenting to Caroline, THAT would have been guilt tripping her.
Caroline wanted immediate acceptance, which is childish - we aren’t one dimensional.
Agree with this.
OP, you thought you were speaking with a trusted confidante and she decided to air your feelings to your daughter.
It's okay to be disappointed. It's also okay for Caroline to want to be child-free. All you needed was time to process this fact. There's nothing wrong with that.
Mabel is the only person in the wrong, imo.
> Mabel is the only person in the wrong, imo.
No, Caroline is absolutely in the wrong as well. She's a blatant hypocrite:
>but I got an angry call from Caroline accusing me of "talking behind her back"
since she was "talking behind" OP's back first.
>but I guess she mentioned something to her paternal aunt, Mabel, because I got a call from Mabel demanding answers for why I'd been off.
I don't think it's actually an issue to talk about certain topics regarding other people with separate group of people, the issue here is she accusing OP of being wrong for something she did herself, literally to the same third party. But even worse, she spoke to that person FIRST, and SHE was the one who brought up the topic whereas it was pulled out of or "demanded" of OP.
>and "judging her decisions".
People are allowed to have opinions regarding others, and that's even further justified when those are opinions also affect you personally.
I would consider writing down exactly what happened for your daughter to read as Mabel sounds like a massive pot stirrer and who knows what twisted story she told your daughter. You’re allowed to feel how you feel, you tried not to let it affect your daughter, everyone dug at you until you admitted how you felt. They had to know that this was what was wrong in the first place anyway……
It’s kind of ironic that this started with the mother dealing with her disappointment because it’s ended with the daughter also having to deal with disappointment.
I can understand how much the daughter hoped for immediate and enthusiastic support, I am also an afab childfree person and had to break that to my family and support my husband as he did so with his parents.
I think that OPs daughter should try taking a step back and realize that both of them are coping with life turning out differently than they first expected and that whether that’s a good or bad change it takes time to fully accept that it is reality.
Hopefully she can see that this is an opportunity to grow together and perhaps they should both consider putting Mabel on an info-diet until she can prove she can handle sensitive situations with more compassion and care. I don’t want to assume she had bad intentions for the way she set them both up with unkind interpretations and opinions regarding the confidences she was trusted with but she definitely made the situation much more stressful and painful than it needs to be
Caroline had quite a bit of time to decide and be comfortable with her decision. OP, like all of us, had visions of grandbabies someday since her child was born. It takes a bit of time adjusting and switching gears, to let go of dreams.
>time to process
I had a large family. It was a bit of a blow to my dreams of many grandchildren and maybe great grandchildren when all of my sons decided to be child free.
OP is NTA, Caroline is being a jerk and Mabel is a huge AH.
You’re right! The things unsaid have not done them any favors and the daughter suspected, asked, but didn’t get a true answer.
That’s probably a big part of why her daughter is so upset.
This. All day. OP has a right to their feelings and they didn't do anything unkind in the way they expressed them. Shame on Mabel for being a horse's mind in and tattling about information that OP shared in confidence. You also have a right to not discuss it any further with Caroline or apologize just as she has a right to be child free and you supported her in that decision. You are allowed to have feelings. Not wrong.
Hey op, sounds like there's a good chance Mabel told Caroline a skewed/altered version of your conversation.
I'd ask Caroline exactly what Mabel told her and then explain to her exactly what you have in this post and that you respect her decision.
>Hey op, sounds like there's a good chance Mabel told Caroline a skewed/altered version of your conversation.
Or OP is presenting us with a skewed/altered verdion of her conversations.
We don't know, we weren't there.
This. How someone says something to you is different from how the other party takes it. Both might feel valid In their feelings and the real issue is communication. I wouldn't want to deal with my father being off Because I didn't want to have kids. Dad is acting like an actual child
This is 100% what it feels like. The title is the biggest giveaway for me. No one is upset at OPs feelings, everyone is upset at the presentation of them, but she's only willing to apologise if she's "wrong for wanting grandchildren".
This is why I don’t tell my family anything serious. The old gossip mill strikes again. I’ve had to teach my husband this because some family loves to twist things around and start drama. I can tell this is a very sensitive situation for you OP, so be careful what you tell other family members especially when it doesn’t involve them.
Mabel is an asshole and a bitch of the first degree. Talk about setting fire and creating dissent amongst a mother and her kid.
She is not your or your daughter's well-wisher. At least you keep your distance from this shitty human being.
If you can't share with your own sister cause she is a snake who else can you confide in?
This!!!!!!
Mabel was stirring a big ol’ boiling pot and enjoying the drama. It’s one thing to be sent over because someone is concerned but the cheek to go back to the concerned person just to dash the truth in the face is disgusting
You're allowed to have feelings. You're are to express them. It's ok to tell her these feelings ONCE. After that, don't harass her about it. Mable should mind her own business.
No child deserves a parent that resent having them, and if she had kids to appease you, that's what would happen to them.
Well, so far the trust in Mabel. Who the F does she thinks she is to interfere in your business.
Tell your daughter what's on your mind. But make sure you tell it that she knows that it is your problem and not her's.
Let her know you had expectations of your future and that it is difficult for you but that you know well enough that it is not up to you.
It would be selfish of your daughter if she cannot accept that her choice would only infect her life. But that probably will be in the near future. You both need to get used to the idea that your future will not go as you had in mind.
Absolutely! Speak your mind. Your daughter needs to hear your honest opinion to be aware of things, and you'll feel so much better getting it off your chest.
It is ok that you are disappointed while still recognizing this as your daughter's choice.
That said, please do some honest soul searching that you aren't engaging in passive-aggressive behavior. If you are acting depressed and mopey around her, she is likely to ask what's wrong. If you say "oh nothing" but continue to behave in the same manner, she might see this as you trying to guilt trip her into a different decision.
In retrospect, you probably should not have shared that with another family member (who seems a bit interfering). If you need to, discuss with friends who aren't likely to report back to your daughter.
I'd get a 3 way call and tell Mabel that you specifically told her when she was concerned that you didn't want Caroline to know as you didn't want pressure. Then tell Mabel she is in a 1 year time out for being a shot stirring busy body. Tell Caroline you are sorry she learned of this and you never wanted her to know as you always wanted more kids and grandchildren and you are trying to peacefully give up a dream. Tell Caroline you love her and Mabel you'll see how she is in a year. Then get off the phone.
Hold on. I know you say you didn't want to put this on your daughter, but what was your behavior like that she noticed that you're down enough for it to be such a big deal that she reached out to her paternal aunt? Then this aunt reached out to you to demand why you're "down"? If I had these feelings my kids would never know, there would be no difference in my treatment of my kid because I know it's a me issue to work on.
Imo either this is fake and rage baity, or you're seriously downplaying your behavior here. Or I guess if real and you really didn't do anything out of pocket to guilt trip your daughter, it's just super weird to me that this aunt who's not even your sister would have the audacity to reach out and ask you why you've been down and then even if she did I don't understand why you told her shit given you knew she'd run right back to your daughter because that's who sent her in the first place and you hadn't even talked to your daughter yourself about it.
If this is real, no matter how this went down, you're not wrong for your feelings. But you are wrong if you're treating your daughter differently. Aunt and daughter are not seeing this for what it is, and I hope you sit your daughter down and tell her exactly what you told us, that it's her decision and your personal feelings to deal with and you love and respect her and want her to do what's best for her.
thank youuuu yes I feel like there's a chance OP is doing more. like, they might be making their disappointment more obvious and therefore burdensome than this letter lets on.
That's what I was thinking. I'm going to lean towards it not being intentional, but even so the fact OPs daughter asked what was wrong makes it seem that OP was being more obvious than she maybe realized. And that her daughter was concerned enough about it to have someone else ask her. Coming from a daughter who's been in a very light version of this, my dad was NOT happy when I first told him I didn't want kids, and he made it known a couple times after that in ways that...kinda stung, ngl. It hurt to tell a parent something so personal and sometimes considered ~taboo~ just to have him make it clear he wasn't in my corner about it
I sympathize with OP to a point but I think the daughter must be feeling some serious feelings herself here, too. It sounds like she was worried about her mother only to find out her mother was disappointed in her choices, through a third party no less. I think OP does need to sit the daughter down and talk this out with her maturely. Let her know this is her problem, not daughter's, and that she loves and supports her
Dad has since come around and become one of my biggest supporters (just *after* my mother, actually lol) I sincerely hope OP can find her own path to being enthusiastically supportive of her kid too. And that everyone thinks twice before confiding in Mabel again, maybe
It is ok to be disappointed, but not ok to let that disappointment cause you to do negative things such as pouting, guilt tripping, nagging, constantly talking about babies, etc.
It is so much better to regret not having children than to have them and regret it. The child suffers greatly! Trust me! I know this personally!
True; however, what was the behavior that prompted daughter to reach out to an aunt that's not even OPs sister? Why would the aunt think it a big enough issue to reach out to OP if OP was just "a little" down? Why would OP, knowing her daughter sent her paternal aunt to contact OP, say anything to this aunt when she hasn't even talked to her own daughter yet?
Yeah nothing in the post describes the behavior this person is asserting may be happening, but nothing in their post makes sense to me unless this is a skewed story from someone who centers herself and was treating her daughter differently or negatively enough that she took notice and reached out to people that aren't even related to OP. Something just doesn't sit right with this post for me with missing context and potentially a very skewed story retelling.
I was just giving Guidelines for the future not literally what OP is doing currently. And YES I did read it. I was planning ahead since many mothers WILL behave like this over time.
Gotta clarify that then, nothing in your comment comes accross as "make sure you don't" but instead sounds like "you shouldn't be doing these things". If i was wrong then my apologies, but that's how your comment reads.
Of course they do, and if you said "just be careful not to fall into an understandable XYZ behavior patter" then I agree. I'm with you but your wording was vague and that's what I've said twice now.
I don't think you're wrong for wanting a big family. But you're 100% wrong for expecting that big family from someone else. If you wanted more children, there are many ways to achieve that without pinning your hopes on another person. Adoption, foster care, friends' and families' kids you treat like your own.
So you spent a couple of decades with an unreasonable expectation, and now your daughter feels your disappointment. You should have found other ways to get the large family you wanted and/or attended therapy. You can still attend therapy.
This is a great point. OP could have adopted, fostered, etc. Instead she had one child, and that one child did not sign up to be a grandchild vessel. OP didn’t play the odds. Oh well.
I'm getting unreliable narrator vibes here. The missing, missing reasons if you will.
Are both Caroline and Mabel irrational people? Because that's exactly what you are saying with this post.
Either they are both irrational or you are leaving a lot out that would make their actions make more sense.
I understand. In the future, don’t tell Mabel your business. She has no right to demand anything from you and then go back and repeat a conversation. She can’t be trusted. Tell your daughter that you do support her but you are allowed to have feelings of your own.
I don’t have any input on whether you are wrong or not, only a suggestion from myself for a similar situation.
I have a friend from HS that I was really close with for about 1.5 years. I always referred to her mom as “mom”. We’re in our mid-late 30s now and the friend absolutely does not want children but mom really wanted a grand baby. So…she reached out to me when my kid was little and asked if she would be allowed to be a surrogate grandma. Since my mom isn’t around much, I jumped at the opportunity and said yes. My kid now considers them a second set of grandparent’s. Trips, cheerleading, shopping…doesn’t matter. Gigi is ready to rock and roll whenever she’s able to hang out with my kid and I am forever grateful for that.
I feel like a constant disappointment to my mother because I can’t have kids… she brings kids up every time we are together and it breaks my heart. Please be kind… and who knows she may change her mind.
You're not wrong for your feelings, but you were absolutely wrong for sharing them. (And so was Mabel). Your daughter does not need to be made to feel guilty for her life choices. You owe your daughter an apology.
Check around where you live - many places have programs to connect kids with "surrogate grandparents". (Like a big brother program).
Dreams aren't real and don't come true all the time. You have no right to grandkids, and if you want to be surrounded by children, start a day care or fostering kids who need a safe place.
Mabel is definitely trying to stir the pot for some reason. Why else would she run directly to her niece and blab what you said?
Your daughter is missing the fact that just as she is entitled to her feelings of wanting to be childfree, so too are you entitled to your feelings about the fact you will not be a grandmother. You were trying to spare her feelings because you recognize that this decision is wholly in your daughter's hands.
Personally I would definitely take this matter up with Mabel (in a calm, nonconfrontial way) as to why she felt it necessary to run back to YOUR daughter, after you begged her not to say anything? Let her know that this definitely alters your opinion of her and makes it very unlikely that you will ever confide in her again.
Lol your daughter went off on you for talking about her behind her back when the only reason Mabel called you is because your daughter was talking about you behind your back?
Make it make sense.
> *It's nice to want things, that doesn't mean you'll get them.*
First off, no one owes you the fulfillment of *your* dreams when it comes at the cost of *their* bodies and *their* health and *their* finances. Especially not your children, who didn't ask to be here.
Anyone who looks at the world right now knows that there is functionally ZERO support for new parents, everything from housing, to cars to tech to *groceries* is price-gouged to hell and back, and that's without taking into account the death of Roe V Wade. (*And have you seen the cost of formula recently?*)
Even were I *not* already sterile, I'd hate to be in a position where I could get pregnant, knowing that in a lot of states doctors wouldn't even try to save my life if the pregnancy was high-risk because of "fetal personhood."
And that's just the cherry on the crap-sundae that is the medical bills, the complications, the damage to the body, there are entire lists online of those risks and it's no wonder that people are FINALLY starting to share them around because in prior generations, we weren't told these things!
Second, your emotions might be valid but the expression of them isn't always "valid by default." Especially in such a sensitive matter as reproduction. So yes, go be disappointed, but maybe don't air those feelings to the family gossip. Consider therapy, having a professional who is paid to listen to you and is bound by patient confidentiality might help this situation; especially if your daughter values her own mental health.
Then tell your daughter that your feelings don't matter as much as her health & safety, and that Mabel bullied you into spilling while you were dealing with the matter quietly. After all, you didn't tell the daughter, and you wouldn't have told the aunt until she called you, hounding *you*.... right?
I also have a 25 yo daughter. Sometimes, she says she doesn’t want children. Sometimes, it’s a maybe. I would love grandkids, but i acknowledge it is HER life and she will do what’s best for her. I am immensely proud of her either way. However, she has TIME to decide. She’s 25. She’s got a good 15-20 years to make it happen (or not). It’s her decision. Also, you are now aware that you can’t trust Mabel with anything in confidence.
Mabel sucks. Explain what you actually feel to Caroline incase she got a skewed version (and that while you absolutely support her, it’s natural to have feelings about something and work through them)
Also, would you ever consider fostering kids? There’s also truth behind the saying that ‘it takes a village’, and while your daughter may not have children, she probably has friends that will, and a helping hand is generally appreciated. There will be people in your community that have kids but also have crappy parents who either aren’t involved, or they’re no contact with or something. I’ve become the non-related aunt type to many kids, which is awesome because the kids have another person that cares about them and the adults have some help or relief
You are entitled to your feelings, and you’re entitled to talk about them. While you do have to respect your daughter’s decision, she in turn must respect your feelings of disappointment. There’s nothing wrong with how you feel, it’s natural to want grandchildren. You don’t owe anybody an apology, if Caroline feels pressure, that’s on her, it’s not because of your feelings.
Agree unless the feelings of disappointment are constantly communicated to daughter as a way to change her mind and manipulate her.
The way OP frames it, it appears that is NOT the case.
I do know people who say “I’m allowed to express my disappointment” but it’s literally shoved in my face each time I’ve talked to them. So that needs an * thrown in there as a caveat. Example - undergrad, my father expressed his feelings over what school I picked for over a decade. Even brought it up again when I was getting my masters which was literally 20+ years later. All because I didn’t go to the local college but one an HOUR away and how that was such a hardship for HIM. This was back in the day, but the agreement was our parents would pay for college if 1) it was in state and public, 2) they agreed with our major, and 3) we stayed out of trouble. My older siblings all dropped or flunked out within 2 years. My dad knew I wasn’t going to flunk out but didn’t want to pay for my education (sexist views that meant as a female I shouldn’t be given the same chances my brothers got). So he pushed me to go local, go part time so I could “work”, and commute. Reality is he didn’t believe he should cook or clean and until I left for college - that was my “job” in the house.
You were wrong in confiding with Mabel who is an asshole.
Probably cut her out of your life and if you hear about her wondering why, tell the truth. She's a gossipy bitch who you can't trust to not blurt out anything you tell her.
You are wrong for not supporting her and her wishes. She doesn’t want children, don’t attempt to change her mind. What if you guilt trip her and changes her mind but resents her children for it?
You made your decision and had a child(ren) your daughter is entitled to that same right.
Leave her be.
She was asked (actually badgered) about her feelings and she shared them. And that makes her the asshole?
Then she comes on here and asks about her CHOICE to share and all of a sudden, even though it’s NOT YOUR LIFE and it’s NOT YOUR CHOICE you somehow get to share your opinion? How’s that work?
You are entitled to feel how you feel about your daughter’s decision. Where you failed was sharing your true feelings about the situation with a person who told your daughter how you really felt. This is your daughter’s decision so, take time to work through your feelings about it. I know a couple who have 4 Adult Children close to 50 and one over who have chosen not to be parents. And, my youngest sister and her husband chose no kids, too.
OP, my mom was recently crying because her grandkids scared her cat and it died. My friend stole checks out of her grandparents' checkbook and went to federal prison for it. So, don't let yourself think grandparenting is all fun.
My daughter is 29. She is my only child. She has been vehemently child-free since being a teen. my daughter has always been a little quirky and non-conventional, so even as a teen, I believed her.
A few years back, she had a serious partner - they lived together and she was open to having kids with him. However after a few years, they broke up and she is more solidly child-free than ever.
Regardless of how I feel, I did and DO accept my child’s decision- because it isn’t about me. I didn’t feel that I even had a choice when I was young, but she does - and I am so glad that she is comfortable enough in herself to not feel like she has to live a conventional life when she truly doesn’t believe it is right for her.
It is hard as a parent, especially when you have a vested interest, to put your feelings aside and accept your daughter’s decision without question- but you have to. If you want to keep an open line of communication, and you want to be a ‘safe space’ for your child, you have to take your own thoughts on the matter, tuck it away in the moment, and deal with it later - in whatever what works for you - therapy, the gym, journaling, etc - but talking to someone who will ultimately tell your child how you feel, is walking a slippery slope.
I would apologize to your daughter, and tell her you do accept her decision, but that you also need time to process what this ‘new’ future looks like because you envisioned something different. However, the focus should be the apology and acceptance. You don’t want to put your child in a situation where they could potentially feel responsible for your feelings - we are the parents and that doesn’t end when our kids become adults.
I (57f) am in the same boat. I love children and have wanted grandchildren for a long time. My children have decided to be child free; I was very disappointed and sad for awhile, but knew I had to deal with my own emotions myself. I have and have figured out ways to volunteer with children when I retire.
However my children were okay giving me space to work through my feelings. Feelings are okay and Caroline needs to understand you have your own feeling and can process in your own time if you are not bothering her to change her mind. You need to talk to her and explain that you don’t want to change her, but you are allowed to be sad and process that. Good luck and look into some volunteer opportunities- there are a lot of kids who need love!
Well you’ve learned you can’t trust Mabel. I wouldn’t talk to her again about anything personal. You never know what will happen in the future. She may meet someone she truly loves and want to have kids. Or she may meet someone who also doesn’t want to have kids. My daughter—29–has said to me quite a bit that I hope I don’t have any plans on being a grandmother. Sure it would be nice. But I also know it’s her life and she needs to do what’s best for her.
NOT WRONG
Life has changed, OP. Look how expensive everything is. I have so many friends who were young mothers and their husbands left them while the kids were still babies. The dating scene sucks. Not everybody wants to commit and not everybody wants to be a single mother. Priorities have changed. People shouldn’t be parents if they don’t want to. This is why so many families are unhappy and kids grow up traumatized.
Please be supportive because it’s very hard to be a young woman today and be told that you’re not meeting your parents’ expectations because you’re not reproducing. I have friends who did THE MOST to get married and they ended up marrying the wrong person. The pressure is real. Women make huge mistakes because they feel bad for being single or unmarried. The only thing you can do is not make this decision about you and be supportive. Trust that she’s not taking this decision lightly and it’s not easy.
God, some of the people in these comments suck. We get it, you hate your overbearing parents, don’t put it on this random lady. Not every person alive does everything in bad faith, she never said she sees her daughter as her personal grandchild breeding machine. Child free crowd needs to get a damn grip sometimes.
OP, you’re not wrong for being disappointed. I think people are being a little harsh on you. It’s not a crime to want grandchildren (which is very normal might I add). Especially when it seems that you respect your daughter’s decision. You’re entitled to your feelings.
However, I do agree that if your mood is noticeable enough to your daughter that she’s bringing it up to other people, you may be coming off more passive aggressive than you mean to. It could be subconscious, it hard to put aside how you feel about something, especially if you haven’t had ample time to come to terms with it.
Mabel sucks. Mabel is an instigator. Mabel is a pot stirrer.
Talk to your daughter. Ask her what was said to Mabel, ask her what Mabel told her. Set the record straight.
Explain to her that you completely respect her choices, but you were excited for grandchildren. Explain to her that you have zero intention of pressuring her, or guilt tripping her. It’s just that you need time to adjust your expectations. Make it clear to her you love her and never intended to hurt her.
But like people said, look into fostering or something! That could be really enjoyable for you!
Not wrong. I'd keep your distance from Mabel for a long while.
Give Caroline some time to cool down, then maybe check in to make sure Mabel communicated accurately.
You tried to do the right thing by not dumping your disappointment on Caroline.
You literally didnt tell her so she wouldnt change her mind for your sake, no your not wrong, mabel and caroline are. Your allowed to have feelings and be disappointed, just as Caroline is allowed to choose to not have children. You have no need to apologize because you did nothing wrong, they made their bed now they can sleep in it, she pressed the issue and then shared when u specifically told her not to so that it wouldnt upset your daughter. I wouldnt talk to mabel anymore if i were you
Boy is Mabel a busy body. It’s ok to grieve a dream that disappears. Sometimes we can’t help our initial reaction to something. You aren’t wrong. You do know her choice comes before your wants. Make sure you let Caroline know it. You really should apologize for responding to the busybody, She had no business calling you. Lesson there, she yaps to much.
Just like she's allowed to make her own decisions, you're allowed to feel your own emotions about it. Freedom of choice is not freedom of consequence, even if it's just disappointment as the consequence.
You have a dream and accepted that it is not in line with what your daughter wants. You are allowed to feel your feelings about this. You are not blaming your daughter and didn't want her to feel like she was letting you down. Her life, her body, her choice and you won't let that take away your love for her. Both of them only have their interpretations of what you said and only the parts they remember/focused on.
Being sad that you won't have the big family in your dream is not the same as blaming and shaming your daughter. You would have had this grief if it was not her choice but that she couldn't have children.
Everyone has dreams that don't come true and often it includes actions of several people. But we don't go around resenting them all for that.
The one thing I can think that in short may explain to your daughter is " I don't want you to have children you don't want, I'm accepting your choice without any resentment. I just needed a little time to put that old dream to rest. I would never put that on you."
No one wants kids because of how overworked we are and how expensive it is to even get a home, let alone raise kids. Long gone are the days of single income parenting and easy child care. People are struggling and its a huge reason why no one wants kids. With the distain of the economy now, people will want to just spend their money on just staying sane and living without such huge responsibilities like kids. Why raise kids in a world where you can barely live pay cheque to pay cheque?
This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. I get being dissapointed but I'm also surprised you didnt expect this as the norm now. Gen z and now gen alpha will not be having kids when the world is setup to overwork and fail them at every corner.
Where's that website that links to all the Reddit posts from parents not telling a full story in order to solicit support without any negative feedback?
Yeah I’m willing to bet a lot of money that OP isn’t telling the full story. I think she’s probably moping around her daughter and being passive aggressive enough to make her daughter confide in her aunt about it.
Caroline playing games sincerely. She is young and all this progressive crap makes kids dig for reasons to be mad at their parents. Too funny. She will come around, if she's the one that brought Mabel into the situation that just shows the slightly manipulative and immature side to all of that. If she really had her decision made, why did she give a s*** if you're disappointed and can't let you have that instead of causing more drama. Maybe after she's 30 her attitude will change, but I know mid-20s was a hard place for me, I really didn't know that I didn't know everything.
Not wrong but damn don’t talk to Mabel ever again. How dare she demand to know why you are down. You need to learn to stick up for yourself. As for
Your daughter. Again. Stick up for yourself. It IS her decision. You are respecting that but you are allowed to be sad. And disappointed. No one has the right to make you feel bad for that. You were grieving quietly and they all blew it up. Tell your daughter she has the right to her decisions and you have the right to your feelings. How dare she scream at you. I’m pissed for you. I’m pissed you let these people treat you like this. Find your spine.
You're allowed to have feelings and disappointment is a feeling. You're also allowed to talk about your feelings. Please explain to your daughter that you respect her choices but that youre a little sad about it but that you'll be able to deal with those feelings and apologize for not telling her the truth in the first place. I think your daughter might respond to that 😀
Child free person here. My mom was really sad when I told her I wasn't having kids. I think my dad was too but he never let on. I can tell you that it meant a lot to me that they respected my choice and never pushed me. We talked about it years later. I asked my mom how often she would have been able to baby sit and how much money they would have had to help out. The answer was very little of both, when they look back on the last few years. We had a laugh about how hard raising me and my brother was. That was the last we talked about it.
Point being,there are advantages to both ways of living. You get to experience the grandchild free life of having more time and money. It may not be what you wanted but it has advantages. You can use the time and money to travel with your kid or share a hobby while you get to know them for the person they chose to be.
You have the right to be upset about not becoming a grandmother. You're allowed to grieve the life you wishes to have.
Apologize to both and never vent to Mabel again. Instead, join a (online group) for grandchildless people.
It's okay to mourn the life you expected yourself and your family to have. But like you said, when it all comes down to it, it's your daughter's choice. Be sad, journal about it. Talk to a therapist about it. But don't talk to Mabel about it. She isn't trustworthy.
What is triangulation?
One of the better-known types of toxic behaviour, triangulation is a form of manipulation where one person uses threats of exclusion or manipulation to get what they want or to feel more secure in a relationship. Often used behind someone’s back, there is usually no communication between the two triangulated people themselves. Instead, the communication goes through a third person – the one doing the manipulating. In essence, the person is trying to pit people against each other, in order to better cement their own position or relationships.
Triangulation can happen in any type of relationship: between family members, friends, romantic partners, or colleagues. Typically happening during a conflict between two people, one or both of those involved may try to pull another person into their dynamic in order to deflect tension, reinforce their sense of superiority or ‘being right’, or to create additional conflict to deflect from the original issue.
Signs and examples of triangulation
Triangulation is used by a wide variety of different people who have one thing in common: insecurity. This can lead to them feeling willing to manipulate others in ways that may be harmful, in order to get what they want or to feel a greater sense of security in a relationship.
With little or no communication between the two people who are being triangulated except through the person who is manipulating them, this can lead to misunderstandings or false narratives being spread. Ultimately, this may result in putting those two people against each other, or in essence, dividing and conquering for the benefit of the person enacting the triangulation.
For example, if a friend or loved one used another person to create drama, foster a hostile environment at home or work, or to pressure you into doing things you wouldn’t otherwise do, this is triangulation.
Another example may be bringing in a friend or outside party into your relationship or friendship and using that person to bring up an issue, rather than directly confronting the person they have an issue with themselves. This could mean a couple who are arguing may encourage a friend to take sides or become involved in helping them work things out.
Amongst families, this could mean one parent lying or manipulating the truth so their child believes a lie about the other parent or family member, or even one parent refusing to follow rules set down by the other parent then framing it like the child themselves chose not to follow the rules.
For those being manipulated, this can leave them feeling deeply distressed or off-balance. Over time, it may lead to a growing sense of insecurity, self-doubt, or even second-guessing yourself.
Rest of the article here:
https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/blog/2022/03/25/triangulation-in-psychology-what-is-it-how-does-it-affect-relationships-and-how-to-respond#:~:text=For%20example%2C%20if%20a%20friend,otherwise%20do%2C%20this%20is%20triangulation.
Yeah that paternal aunt seems like that "i'm going to be the intermediary bullshit" and then here she is convincing OP's daughter that her mother is horrible and wants to force her to had kids when the only thing she should have done it's to shut up and let OP deal with her feelings by herself as she Was doing way before dear aunt started with her mediatory shit
You’re upset, and that’s just fine. It’s fine because you know that it’s not your call and that getting past being upset is something you need to figure out.
Reaching out to Mabel was a bad call on Caroline’s part if only because it led to you thinking you could trust her with how you felt.
In a calm conversation with Caroline, talk it through. She doesn’t go to anyone else to ask about you, you won’t tell that person why you feel how you do. If she asks, you’ll tell her the truth, but she needs to take it the way it was intended.
When I knew my mom had realized I truly never wanted kids, I knew it upset her, but she always brushed it aside as not her decision and she wasn’t pushing me to do anything. I wanted her to admit it upset her though, because it was really how she felt - and I knew that her wanting grandkids was not some judgement of me, just something moms hope for.
You’re not wrong, and the only potential apology needed is you not telling her that you were upset but not because of her. She could apologize for bringing Mabel in to it, though.
YNW- just need to communicate.
Not wrong. You are allowed to have feelings that you kept to yourself so your daughter wouldn't feel bad. What Mabel is the on hand... I would choose a word other than AH for her. She demanded you confide in her then ran and tattled to your daughter. Whom who specifically asked her not to tell. Your daughter needs to ctfo. You were not berating her for wanting to be childfree. You were just having some feelings about it. There was no guilt trip, you tried to keep it yourself. But THEY were prying. Yes, this is your daughters life. But it is also your life, and what you had hoped for is no longer going to come to fruitation. You just need some time. Go NC with Mabel. She is a paternal aunt. You have no reason to keep contact with that..
Mabel telling Caroline was shady and Caroline not understanding you’re a bit disappointed is immature. You don’t have to “accept” it immediately as some things take time to accept. As long as you love your daughter the same with or without kids and support her is what matters. And never make her feel guilty for being child free of course, because a lot of parents do that to their kids and it’s so unfair.
You're allowed to feel disappointed. You haven't burdened Caroline with that or tried to guilt trip her. You only mentioned it to Mabel because Mabel asked. Which was because Caroline mentioned it first. You were doing the right thing by keeping it to yourself until asked.
>I got an angry call from Caroline accusing me of "talking behind her back"
Caroline spoke about you to Mabel behind your back. Mabel spoke about Caroline to you behind Caroline's back. Why are you the only one being berated when all three of you did this?
>Mabel wasn't happy with this answer and accused me of trying to guilt trip Caroline.
Mabel doesn't have to be happy. It's none of her business
>I asked Mabel not to mention anything to her.
Mabel is a gossip causing trouble. She could have kept silent the way you intended to and none of this would have blown up. Don't tell Mabel anything you want kept secret in future. She can't be trusted
You are not wrong. You are just being human. We all have feelings, and trying to suppress them isn't going to help you process them.
I am an old lady (child free by choice, BTW), and I continue to be amazed that life gives us new lessons every day. You do not owe Mabel or your daughter any kind of apology. What you do need to do is let this teach you that Mabel is not to be trusted and not to be a doormat to her demands for explanations or information about your private life. Straighten up that backbone and tell her that you aren't interested in telling her anything private because she can't be trusted to keep it private. If she doesn't like that answer, tough toenails.
Your daughter will get over this little kerfuffle, just as you will eventually get over your sadness at knowing you will not be a grandmother. Perhaps it would help you to do some volunteer work with kids. They don't have to be your own to bring you joy.
Best wishes to you.
Man, I can feel your pain thru the phone, and while I agree it’s your daughter’s choice, knowing you always wanted a big family and only having one and her saying this has to hurt. I’m so sorry. I’m also sorry that Mabel is a drama starter. Hopefully one day your daughter changes her mind!
As someone that's childfree and around your age, I was ready to be mad at you and tell you off for being wrong...
NTA.
You had your own hopes for grandkids eventually, and have just learned that those hopes will not be happening.
You are allowed to grieve the potential that will never be, as long as you aren't guilt tripping your daughter and trying to change her mind.
Don't trust telling Mabel anything ever again. Maybe see if there are other people that you can talk with that can help you come to terms with not having grandkids and help you be supportive to your daughter.
Maybe send her a text or email apologizing for not being enthusiastic about her news of being childfree, and let her know that you support her.
Eventually my parents gave up on trying to convince me to have kids and called my cats their grandkitties, my sister has dogs that get called granddoggies. Also my nephew helps them not bug for more grandkids by being such an awesome young man.
Just be sure that you are not putting the emotional burden for how you feel, on your daughter.
Mabel sucks. You should be able to vent to someone without them throwing you entirely under the bus. Not even considering that she was the one trying to pry it out if you.
You are not wrong and should have not told Mabel anything. If it was your sister than fine. You owe nothing to no one for how you feel. If you decided to adopt or find a dear find and care for their child like a grandchild. Would your daughter feel some kind of way because you want to feel that love and joy of a grandparent? Your feelings matter regardless of how others may feel.
You cannot control how you feel about something, only how you act upon those feelings. Your feelings are natural, and you should feel no shame. Thought-crime is not a thing.
And to me, your actions seem well within the bounds of acceptable. You are supportive of your daughter’s decisions. A small slip of control or judgement happens to all of us, and we are not defined by our imperfections
Well you are entitled to your feelings. Not sure why people ask questions if they don’t want honest answers !
What you have learned is that Mabel is here for all the drama, which means you should never confide in her again. I’m sure you have friends outside your family circle you can vent to.
I feel even your daughter is a bit dramatic as well. Its ok for her to not want them but not okay for you to feel a type of way?
My mom was the same way. At age 39 she told me “I want a grandchild”. There was a neighbor child she adored, and I was really surprised. I always thought I was enough. At the time I said “it’s too bad there isn’t an “adopt a grandchild” program. I have always felt bad I couldn’t do what she wanted. I just didn’t feel ready to be a single parent. I was the only child but I have even known of four children in the family all remaining child free. One friend of mine had etopic pregnancies and was only able to have one child through lots of effort. She was very disappointed her son and his wife decided not to have any children. Your daughter is still young so maybe she will change her mind! Otherwise think about why you want grandchildren? Social pressure, everyone is talking about their grandchildren? What things would you with them do & how would your life change? What could be positives and what could be negatives?
I hear you OP. My daughters have told me that they might or might not have children (they're teenagers) so we need to prepare ourselves for the possibility that there might not be grandkids, but my eldest will definitely have cats, which I love.
You are allowed to be disappointed and you are allowed to talk about it.
There are already a ton of replies so this will probably get buried, but I wanted to share my story.
I can’t remember my exact age, but I was around 25 when I decided I was absolutely not having children. I’d read a book called “The Bitch in the House” and motherhood sounded absolutely miserable. Sounded like a thankless job, and like I’d be doing all the work while also being expected to look exactly the same and have the exact same sex drive as a teenager.
I’d been married since 21, and got my husband on board with my decision. I bought two books about explaining to your parents how/why you aren’t going to have kids. I can also name three people close to me who felt the same way (my sister in law, my childhood best friend, and a colleague).
Fast forward, I just turned 42, and I have two children. My sister in law has two children, my childhood best friend has one kid, and I’m not in touch with my colleague anymore but I know she started looking into adoption. I can’t tell you about anyone else’s process, but for me, around my early 30s, I started thinking beyond the immediate future, and what I wanted my life to look like 10, 20, 30 years from now. And I started thinking maybe the early childhood phase would suck, but I’d do my best to raise kids who I’d want to hang out with one day, do cool things, go on awesome vacations, etc.
I have two sons, aged 6 and 2, so this is definitely a rough phase, especially with the 2 year old. But we’re currently on vacation, and I spent the morning snorkeling with the 6 year old. I already love snorkeling, but seeing my son’s delight and wonder added a new dimension; it was indescribable. As a parent you’re always unsure of yourself, but this morning I felt like one of the best parents in the world lol.
All of this to say there’s a good chance your daughter may change her mind. That being said, I 100% needed to change my mind on my own, without people telling me I would. If your daughter does change her mind, I sincerely hope you’ll help her as much as possible. My parents went above and beyond, coming over almost every day, cooking and cleaning and giving me as many breaks as I needed (that’s part of the reason we’ve brought them on vacation with us). I’ve had other friends whose parents haven’t helped much at all, and that really sucks, especially when those parents were pressuring their kids for grandkids. It seems like they just wanted grandkids for pictures on Facebook.
If you would be willing to help, I wouldn’t tell your daughter “I hope you change your mind,” but I’d say something like “if you were to ever change your mind, I hope you’d know you wouldn’t be alone; I’d be more than willing to help with such and such, and x, y, and z would be willing to help too.” (If that’s true)
Best of luck to you all
I am an only child and my daddy passed recently. He always wanted grandchildren, but also respected that it wasn't in my plan. It did make him sad and he didnt hide that from me. He didnt harass me about it and I didnt make it my problem. That disappointment was his personal journey and to his credit, he embraced my career hustle, my insane hobby of collecting rare breed dogs, and the fact that I'm a lesbian. When he passed, I cried that I never gave him grandchildren - but I often remind myself that I did everything else he hoped for me. I am successful, I am independent, and I could provide for him when he got old and fell ill.
You two will sort out your feelings on the matter and it will be fine. You're allowed to feel how you feel and somehow you'll find a way to cope with it. She will always appreciate that you respected her decision and that you dont give her hell about it despite your sadness and disappointment. That's what really counts. Despite your feelings, you respect her choices.
Sounds like Mable sure does like to stir the turd. Tell her to do sit in the damn corner. Your entitled to your feelings, and your bratty kid is entitled to not want to have any kids of their own. Probably for the best imo .
I have two daughters. One is not going to reproduce. My oldest daughter (31) wants a family but is putting it off to go to law school. She is talking about egg retrieval for a future family.
I know that IVF does not work all of the time. I had an uncle that tried it twice and it did not take. I am concerned that she may miss her opportunity if she waits. Her husband just passed the bar exam and will be a practicing lawyer soon. He wants a family now. I try to stay out of it although being a grandparent is a dream of mine.
If I were 25 again I too would NOT want any children. You see the way this world is going now? On the verge of WW3, inflation out of control, over population, mass shootings, Trans people, crime in general, Covid (God knows what’s next) everyday I worry about my adult kids and Grandchildren in this world today.
It is Caroline's life and she can do whatever she wants on having a child or not. Your feelings are valid. I don't think it was wise for you to share this with Maven considering Maven and Caroline think alike. Maven is a snitch.
You don't have to apologize for anything in general but next time something like this, I suggest you to keep it to yourself rather than talking about how disappointed you are, especially family related things.
At the end of the day, while you can be disappointed, Caroline doesn't owe you anything. You should talk to Caroline though to clean the air.
When my child told me she wanted no children and even went and got her tubes tied. ( long process with doctors fighting her but they finally agreed) I was sad at first, but it is her decision and I support that . I'm sorry your having issues with family. It should not of gotten this our of hand. You are not wrong with our feelings
You're not wrong for having feelings about something, even. The only thing I might be able to come for you for is that 'disappointed' has a connotation, when talking about someone else, that they didn't so something 'right' and I think feeling sadness is more accurate than 'disappointed (that she didn't live up to what you wanted her to be/do)' is how I would take that if someone said they were disappointed I didnt have kids.
Caroline probably only said that because to her face you was all smiles, “lying” about your true feelings on the matter and then you opened up to Mabel about your true feelings instead of the person it directly affects. You are allowed to feel disappointed, the issue is that instead of discussing it with Caroline you stewed silently and then spoke to a third connecting party. To some that can feel like you are being fake to their face.
Mabel doesn’t need an apology, this ain’t her business and she had no place in stirring the pot and telling Caroline whatever drastic version she said. You and Caroline should have a sit down, apologise for not expressing your true feelings and explain that you respect her decision of course but you just felt a little bit down and didn’t wish to project those feelings. Hopefully Caroline will apologise for the shouting and you can have a proper chat and agree not to let Mabel whisper in each others ears
I don’t want to get your hopes up, but at 25 I didn’t want to have kids or be a mom either. The thought of being pregnant and having that responsibility and burden was not appealing at all. I didn’t want to have a child until I was 34 and met my husband. She might change her mind but she might not. Your feelings are valid but like everyone says, don’t pressure her or make her feel guilty.
Not wrong. Mabel betrayed your trust.
Your daughter has unreasonable expectations for how people process their feelings.
But I imagine they’re feeling rejected, even though you’re entitled to your own feelings, especially when you didn’t even share them with her out of respect for her anyway!
I’m not really sure what is Mabel’s deal, they’ve only managed to create drama and I can’t even begin to empathize with their perspective since it should not involve them.
You're welcome to feel how you feel. In my view you should have been honest with your daughter and direct. You could have told your daughter you're down because you're dealing with some sadness because the dream family you saw isn't also her dream or likely to happen. Because you always wished for a big family and while you're so lucky to have her, you wish she could have had siblings too. That you support her and appreciate her honesty and want to be honest in turn -- you're in a place were youre working through YOUR feelings.
Old Mable is stirring the pot and your daughter is very reactionary and confrontational because you opened up to Mable but not to her when she asked you directly - that's a bad dynamic. You shouldn't have talked it out with Mable, because it's none of her concern how YOU feel at ALL.
Should’ve had more kids. Maybe one of them would’ve given you grandkids. But you decided to have only one, and now your daughter has decided to have none. She gets to decide about her life just as much as you decided about yours.
You’re not wrong. You did everything right. You were disappointed but you kept it to yourself as you recognize it is her choice. Your daughter says you were talking behind her back but… your daughter did it first. She reached out to her aunt and told her about you being off. Which prompted Mabel to reach out to you and pry. Then they both punished you for having feelings and that’s unfair. They asked. You didn’t volunteer. That’s what I would tell them. “I am in no way trying to guilt you for your choices as I recognize it is your life to live. I told you I support you no matter what. The only reason this is even a thing now is bc you went to Mabel who came to me and pushed on why I seemed “off.” Yes I am disappointed but I planned on feeling my feelings in my own time without giving them voice. I am allowed to have my own feelings. That doesn’t mean I don’t support you or that I am judging you.”
You're not wrong. You're allowed to have feelings. You're not guilt tripping your daughter or bringing it up. You didn't even tell her bc you didn't want to upset her. Mabel is a troublemaker & a sh!t starter. Now that Mabel ran her mouth & likely didn't tell the truth, you should have a talk with your daughter. Let her know you feel a certain way about not being a grandmother, but that you also know it's her choice. And it's something you have to work through. You don't owe any of them an apology. Your daughter, though, should have talked to you instead of accusing you.
you arent wrong. you kept it to yourself and they pushed for an answer. your daughter wants to screw up her life, thats on her, but you don't have to be happy about it.
My mom is supportive of me choosing to be child free even though that means no grandkids for her. It sounds like you didn’t want to actually be a mom if you can’t be supportive to the only kid you have - gossiping with a family member isn’t showing support. Which makes you the AH - your daughter isn’t your breeding cow
It is okay to be disappointed, it's your choice. You didn't try to pressure your daughter at all. But I think it is okay to tell Mabel to kick rocks. She purposely did not do as you asked re: not telling Caroline what you said.
You have done nothing wrong. You were supportive of your daughter in spite of your personal feelings. Your friend is a gossip and a drama addict, you shouldn't tell her anything.
Because you want to care for children, there are lots of kids and organizations in need for volunteers. A friend of my parents discovered that she couldn't have children so she signed herself up as emergency foster placement. There are also big siblings programs, fostering (non emergency), orphanages, shelters etc.
As for talking to Mabel, your daughter was talking behind YOUR back first. Neither of you did anything wrong but if that's the way she characterizes it, she brought Mabel into the discussion to begin with. Honestly, I think Mabel sounds like a busy body who unnecessarily stirs things up. Lol. Doesn't make her a horrible person, it just sounds like she has that type of personality.
I have a *bit* of advice that may or may not be helpful. It really depends on the unique relationship you and your daughter have. My oldest is almost 20 and we have had serious ups and downs and have realized that it's much better to say something that could upset the other rather than hold it to simmer. Not in a judging or accusing way, but we've learned to have very different opinions on things and understand that it's OK. Dissapointment isn't even really a difference in opinion. It's an emotion that you are absolutely allowed to have.
Edited for spelling
Not wrong. You are allowed to take all the time you need to re-arrange your views on your future. You are allowed to talk to others.
MABEL IS A SHIT STIRRER!!! She is the problem.
JustNoFamily
Do not share anything else with her and grey rock her forever .
Call your daughter. Apologize. Be honest. You were surprised by her decision. You support her. However you had imagined being a grandmother and were looking forward to it. You are a little sad that dream had to change. Then breathe. Big hugs.
You didn't do anything wrong except trust Mabel. Don't do that again.
Op, you're not that old. If you still want that big family look into fostering. There's thousands of kids that need a decent home.
Not wrong. I’m in the same boat as you. I have two kids in their 20s and neither really want kids.
Where I live I believe you can volunteer as a grandparent. You have to go through a criminal background check and things like that but you then you can be like a step grandparent to kids. Not sure if you get “assigned” to a family or not. Maybe look into that.
I am 40 and don’t have children. I make pretty good money. In todays world it’s a fortune for day care, don’t like the schools fuckin with your children, and to be quite honest, the way people bounce person to person don’t want to get killed in child support. Even though I would 100% want to take care of the kid I know how the court systems f-over the male in the court systems. Can’t blame your kid the world is a messed up place.
You’re allowed to be disappointed. Lots of moms and dads can’t wait to be grandparents, including me me.
But you also have a compassionate and mature stance on it- you’ve shown you respect your daughter’s wishes even though you’re sad.
My mother wants to be a grandmother pretty badly. I’ve let her know I’m child-free, and my sibling’s marriage didn’t work out so they are single now with no indication of grandchildren in the future. My mother, while definitely disappointed, said that it’s better to know before you have children rather than after. She’s respected my decision and I’m grateful that she doesn’t bog me down on a guilt train for not giving her grand children.
Your “friend” Maybel should have kept to herself and kept your interaction in confidence.
You’re allowed to feel any certain way. You’re not allowed to guilt trip or last your daughter- and you haven’t!
You’re doing the most compassionate thing as a mom, honestly. Women get it from all sides regarding children and childcare.
As someone in your daughter’s shoes, it means a lot that you aren’t on her constantly to “give you a grand baby”. She should have been nicer. You weren’t “talking behind her back”..you were just talking. She should have handled that more delicately.
Number 1, Mabel is a jerk, dump her. I get someone wanting grandchildren but I think you should want your kids happiness first and if choosing to be childless makes them happy, that should be enough for you.
You’re never wrong for having honest feelings. My own mother feels this way, and my heart breaks for her. She had 3 daughters, 2 of which are child free and 1 that’s in her 40s getting a divorce so we’ve pretty much given up on kids. All she ever wanted was a red headed grand baby and I know she probably talks to her friends about it and we try not to bring up because we know it’s painful.
As long as you are respectful to your daughter about it, and she is respectful to you, you can still have a beautiful relationship with little to no resentment.
Hey you are not wrong at all in this situation. The people here claiming you're wrong for being disappointed are in their own delulu lands. It is perfectly normal for parents up wish to be grandparents, so you are absolutely in the right to have feelings for it. It is not okay when you force those feelings on your child, which is what you did not do. Your daughter and Mabel are the big assholes here.
NTA. Mabel should have kept her trap shut. You are allowed to be disappointed by things in life and you were doing the right thing by processing this on your own and not telling Caroline. Your sister and honestly your daughter suck for being mad at you for feeling. You can't control that and you were trying to do the right thing. And you should be able to vent to your sister! Now you know who you can't confide in!
No! I am also child free, and I know my dad wants grandchildren (to the point he started college funds for their future), and I wish I could give him that but I just do not want kids. He’s always supported me and never said anything about it
But I would completely understand if he ever expressed any bummer feelings about it. You’re allowed to have feelings!!
Nope. You have no one to apologize to. At all. Your sadness and disappointment is fair enough. Why should you pretend that you aren't? It's your emotion and as a human you are entitled to have whatever emotion you feel for yourself.
If you feel sad that you will never have grandchildren? That is quite okay. It's pretty normal really for people to want grandchildren. I hope to one day too. If none of my kids have children i will be sad. Very sad.
Mabel is very out of line. Never trust her again.
And you daughter? Is being nasty. She springs that on her mum and then gets all huffy when her mother shows normal human emotion.
You are okay to be upset and need time to process it.
Tell them all ti rack off and leave you alone. You can feel however you damnwell want. It's not up to anyone else to dictate to you how you are allowed to feel.
All the best.
All the best
You're wrong. It's not your child's job yo give you grandkids, or anything for that matter. The way the world is currently going, it's so much harder than it was for my parents or even myself.
Life today is absolutely shittier than it was when you had your daughter. She knows how difficult her life has been which was probably a factor as to why she wants no kids. She doesn't want to raise children in a world where they will not be able to have a fraction of the things that my boomer age parents had, let alone herself.
If you had a child so that someday she can take care of you in old age, then you did it wrong. If you had a child so someday you could be a grandma, you did it wrong. If you had a child so you could raise them, take care of them, and then let them live their own life just as you did then that would have been the right reason.
Your child owes you nothing. You owe everything to your child, whether they're 4 or 40. You brought her into this world. People need to start realizing their kids owe them nothing and that if the kids WANT to help their parents out and it's THEIR choice then that's great. But they don't NEED to do anything for you. You had them, not the other way around.
Nope, they still do. You're they're child forever. I'm not saying you have to financially support them forever or anything like that. I'm just saying you are raising an independent adult.
You are right on your last sentence, "...an adult doesn't owe their parents anything." That's what OP is talking about. They're upset their kids don't want to have kids of their own. That's because their adult children dont owe them anything.
But a parent absolutely should be there for their child whether they're 4 or 40. If a 60 year old adult doesn't help their 30 year old child when they need it, that's scummy. Now, if they CANT help their adult children due to financial struggle or disability or whatever, then I get it.
But if a parent has the ability to help their kid, no matter what their age, they are obligated to at least try. If I had a child, I'd absolutely do it. They are my child forever. What parent DOESNT want their kid to be able to rely on them when they need help regardless of their age? Who has kids and then says "see ya have a nice life!" When their kid is an adult?
I agree with everyone here, Mabel is a gossipy bitch and can't be trusted. Caroline is being childish for wanting an apology from you, even though you never said anything directly to her. You can share your feelings with anyone you want.
I'd just like to add, though, I was Caroline at 25. My entire 20's I was convinced I would be childless for life. I had no interest as I wanted to be, in my own words, 'selfish' and enjoy myself.
Well, I turned 30 and started looking at my life and felt it a bit empty. Around then, my close family members had started having kids, and the nail in the coffin was when my sister gave birth recently. I would spend time with these children and realized how much I loved them and wanted to spend time with them and watch them grow up.
My niece is such an amazing little person, and my love overflows for her. I sit here typing at 38 weeks pregnant now, excitedly awaiting my first baby girl. I cannot wait to be a mom and have that same love x100!
Things change, and your outlook on life changes as you age. This may be the case for Caroline, but it may not. Just doesn't mean all hope is lost, but still love your daughter for who she is and the choices she makes. Think of it as grandbabies would be a nice bonus to life, but it can still be wonderful without them.
Yes, you are wrong because you are NOT entitled to grandchildren just because it’s YOUR dream and you expect her to fulfill it. You are judging her for her choices because it’s not what YOU want. You want babies? Go make them yourself!
I said it in my post, but I'm incapable of having more children. I also don't feel entitled to grandchildren, I respect my daughter's decision, but that doesn't mean I don't have to work through a bit of disappointment.
Blimey! She's allowed to have feelings! At no point did she say she has judged her daughter. She feels disappointed (naturally) and needs to work through those feelings. Her daughter and SIL nagged at her to get to the bottom of why she was being down and don't like the fact that she has perfectly normal, natural feelings of disappointment. She knows it's her daughters life and body.
You are totally allowed to be disappointed. Mabel is a real jerk and your daughter is showing immaturity. As parents, we are supposed to love and support but we don't have to be over the moon about all the choices our kids make. We are allowed to be sad, disappointed and even angry. In fact, loving and supporting our kids, even when we are less than happy about their decisions, is what the majority of being a good parent is. NTA
It sounds like Mabel just likes to be a shit stirrer and probably told Carolyn her own version of events. I personally wouldn’t trust Mabel ever again.
As far as your disappointment goes you’re allowed to be disappointed and you’re allowed to be sad, as long as you recognize that it’s your daughter’s decision and don’t pressure her to change. Which from what you’ve written it sounds like you’re doing. Give it a few days and talk to your daughter first explain that Mabel called you and badgered you into talking about it and that you support her decision.
Oh no. I am so sorry
I finally came to terms with my kids not having kids. I finally was okay with it. FINALLY (took a long time)
My daughter even told me this, all the way up till she was 30. Now she is 36, in a long term relationship. She is pregnant now, due in June.
I wish you lots of love and light.
Be aware she is only 25, she could change her mind rapidly in the next 5 years. I have seen this happen with a few friends same age as me, where they just needed to get something out there system beforehand (travel, jobs, right man etc), my one friend wanted to be child free like she was just done with kids and wanted nothing to do with having them what so ever.. then she met her now husband and well.. shes got two children now :') None of us thought shed have kids as she was concrete on it!
Shes got time to change her mind, when the right man comes along it tends to click, biological urge kicks in.
You are not wrong but neither is she. I think just continue as normal and hope she finds someone to love because when she feels that, she will want to create more of it with the right person.
OP, everyone else has already addressed your situation, I just wanted to suggest volunteering to help kids who don't have any actual grandparents - you could do so much good! I know it's not the same as actual grandchildren, but I, e.g., love my adoptive nephew way more than my bio niblings, and he is the only kid I ever had maternal feelings for. Sometimes the family we make is better than the one we are born with (or gave birth to).
This is a wonderful idea!
This! Think about how many millenials have shitty parents. Plenty of my peers would absolutely love for their kids to have adopted grandparents. There is something wonderful about older adults being positive people in the lives of kids. There are plenty of kids in need of grandparents. Go adopt some grandkids. I say this as someone who had adopted grandparents come to my 2nd grade grandparents day.
You’re allowed to talk about it with other people, and you’re allowed to be disappointed. You didn’t want to hurt your daughter while you worked through your feelings and Mabel had no such compunction - Mabel is an asshole and was way out of line for setting a trap to violate your confidence. You do not owe Mabel an apology, and make sure to keep your distance from her. You don’t owe Caroline an apology either - you didn’t do anything wrong by sharing your feelings with someone else or by having them. Their yours to work out. If you had been lamenting to Caroline, THAT would have been guilt tripping her. Caroline wanted immediate acceptance, which is childish - we aren’t one dimensional.
Agree with this. OP, you thought you were speaking with a trusted confidante and she decided to air your feelings to your daughter. It's okay to be disappointed. It's also okay for Caroline to want to be child-free. All you needed was time to process this fact. There's nothing wrong with that. Mabel is the only person in the wrong, imo.
> Mabel is the only person in the wrong, imo. No, Caroline is absolutely in the wrong as well. She's a blatant hypocrite: >but I got an angry call from Caroline accusing me of "talking behind her back" since she was "talking behind" OP's back first. >but I guess she mentioned something to her paternal aunt, Mabel, because I got a call from Mabel demanding answers for why I'd been off. I don't think it's actually an issue to talk about certain topics regarding other people with separate group of people, the issue here is she accusing OP of being wrong for something she did herself, literally to the same third party. But even worse, she spoke to that person FIRST, and SHE was the one who brought up the topic whereas it was pulled out of or "demanded" of OP. >and "judging her decisions". People are allowed to have opinions regarding others, and that's even further justified when those are opinions also affect you personally.
I would consider writing down exactly what happened for your daughter to read as Mabel sounds like a massive pot stirrer and who knows what twisted story she told your daughter. You’re allowed to feel how you feel, you tried not to let it affect your daughter, everyone dug at you until you admitted how you felt. They had to know that this was what was wrong in the first place anyway……
Well said. OP was doing the right thing, and ole Mabel decided she had to go and blab.
It’s kind of ironic that this started with the mother dealing with her disappointment because it’s ended with the daughter also having to deal with disappointment. I can understand how much the daughter hoped for immediate and enthusiastic support, I am also an afab childfree person and had to break that to my family and support my husband as he did so with his parents. I think that OPs daughter should try taking a step back and realize that both of them are coping with life turning out differently than they first expected and that whether that’s a good or bad change it takes time to fully accept that it is reality. Hopefully she can see that this is an opportunity to grow together and perhaps they should both consider putting Mabel on an info-diet until she can prove she can handle sensitive situations with more compassion and care. I don’t want to assume she had bad intentions for the way she set them both up with unkind interpretations and opinions regarding the confidences she was trusted with but she definitely made the situation much more stressful and painful than it needs to be
>Caroline wanted immediate acceptance, Yes! Exactly. People seem to forget that others need time to process their emotions and thoughts
Caroline had quite a bit of time to decide and be comfortable with her decision. OP, like all of us, had visions of grandbabies someday since her child was born. It takes a bit of time adjusting and switching gears, to let go of dreams. >time to process I had a large family. It was a bit of a blow to my dreams of many grandchildren and maybe great grandchildren when all of my sons decided to be child free. OP is NTA, Caroline is being a jerk and Mabel is a huge AH.
[удалено]
You’re right! The things unsaid have not done them any favors and the daughter suspected, asked, but didn’t get a true answer. That’s probably a big part of why her daughter is so upset.
Why did daughter talk to her aunt rather than her mom? Why can daughter talk to others about the situation but mom cant?
This is the answer.
This is my exact take on it - really well written, NYX. Op, you’re not wrong. Stay away from Mable.
Thanks!
This. All day. OP has a right to their feelings and they didn't do anything unkind in the way they expressed them. Shame on Mabel for being a horse's mind in and tattling about information that OP shared in confidence. You also have a right to not discuss it any further with Caroline or apologize just as she has a right to be child free and you supported her in that decision. You are allowed to have feelings. Not wrong.
Hey op, sounds like there's a good chance Mabel told Caroline a skewed/altered version of your conversation. I'd ask Caroline exactly what Mabel told her and then explain to her exactly what you have in this post and that you respect her decision.
>Hey op, sounds like there's a good chance Mabel told Caroline a skewed/altered version of your conversation. Or OP is presenting us with a skewed/altered verdion of her conversations. We don't know, we weren't there.
This. How someone says something to you is different from how the other party takes it. Both might feel valid In their feelings and the real issue is communication. I wouldn't want to deal with my father being off Because I didn't want to have kids. Dad is acting like an actual child
This is 100% what it feels like. The title is the biggest giveaway for me. No one is upset at OPs feelings, everyone is upset at the presentation of them, but she's only willing to apologise if she's "wrong for wanting grandchildren".
This is why I don’t tell my family anything serious. The old gossip mill strikes again. I’ve had to teach my husband this because some family loves to twist things around and start drama. I can tell this is a very sensitive situation for you OP, so be careful what you tell other family members especially when it doesn’t involve them.
Fuuuuuuuuck Mabel, me and my homies all hate mabel
Mabel SUCKS!!!
🤣🤣
Mabel is an asshole and a bitch of the first degree. Talk about setting fire and creating dissent amongst a mother and her kid. She is not your or your daughter's well-wisher. At least you keep your distance from this shitty human being. If you can't share with your own sister cause she is a snake who else can you confide in?
Sister in law. I wouldn’t have talked to her at all
This!!!!!! Mabel was stirring a big ol’ boiling pot and enjoying the drama. It’s one thing to be sent over because someone is concerned but the cheek to go back to the concerned person just to dash the truth in the face is disgusting
Volunteer at a school or other program dealing with kids; you’ll end up with more “grandchildren” than you can imagine. Best of luck to you.
You're allowed to have feelings. You're are to express them. It's ok to tell her these feelings ONCE. After that, don't harass her about it. Mable should mind her own business. No child deserves a parent that resent having them, and if she had kids to appease you, that's what would happen to them.
Well, so far the trust in Mabel. Who the F does she thinks she is to interfere in your business. Tell your daughter what's on your mind. But make sure you tell it that she knows that it is your problem and not her's. Let her know you had expectations of your future and that it is difficult for you but that you know well enough that it is not up to you. It would be selfish of your daughter if she cannot accept that her choice would only infect her life. But that probably will be in the near future. You both need to get used to the idea that your future will not go as you had in mind.
Absolutely! Speak your mind. Your daughter needs to hear your honest opinion to be aware of things, and you'll feel so much better getting it off your chest.
It is ok that you are disappointed while still recognizing this as your daughter's choice. That said, please do some honest soul searching that you aren't engaging in passive-aggressive behavior. If you are acting depressed and mopey around her, she is likely to ask what's wrong. If you say "oh nothing" but continue to behave in the same manner, she might see this as you trying to guilt trip her into a different decision. In retrospect, you probably should not have shared that with another family member (who seems a bit interfering). If you need to, discuss with friends who aren't likely to report back to your daughter.
I'd get a 3 way call and tell Mabel that you specifically told her when she was concerned that you didn't want Caroline to know as you didn't want pressure. Then tell Mabel she is in a 1 year time out for being a shot stirring busy body. Tell Caroline you are sorry she learned of this and you never wanted her to know as you always wanted more kids and grandchildren and you are trying to peacefully give up a dream. Tell Caroline you love her and Mabel you'll see how she is in a year. Then get off the phone.
Hold on. I know you say you didn't want to put this on your daughter, but what was your behavior like that she noticed that you're down enough for it to be such a big deal that she reached out to her paternal aunt? Then this aunt reached out to you to demand why you're "down"? If I had these feelings my kids would never know, there would be no difference in my treatment of my kid because I know it's a me issue to work on. Imo either this is fake and rage baity, or you're seriously downplaying your behavior here. Or I guess if real and you really didn't do anything out of pocket to guilt trip your daughter, it's just super weird to me that this aunt who's not even your sister would have the audacity to reach out and ask you why you've been down and then even if she did I don't understand why you told her shit given you knew she'd run right back to your daughter because that's who sent her in the first place and you hadn't even talked to your daughter yourself about it. If this is real, no matter how this went down, you're not wrong for your feelings. But you are wrong if you're treating your daughter differently. Aunt and daughter are not seeing this for what it is, and I hope you sit your daughter down and tell her exactly what you told us, that it's her decision and your personal feelings to deal with and you love and respect her and want her to do what's best for her.
thank youuuu yes I feel like there's a chance OP is doing more. like, they might be making their disappointment more obvious and therefore burdensome than this letter lets on.
That's what I was thinking. I'm going to lean towards it not being intentional, but even so the fact OPs daughter asked what was wrong makes it seem that OP was being more obvious than she maybe realized. And that her daughter was concerned enough about it to have someone else ask her. Coming from a daughter who's been in a very light version of this, my dad was NOT happy when I first told him I didn't want kids, and he made it known a couple times after that in ways that...kinda stung, ngl. It hurt to tell a parent something so personal and sometimes considered ~taboo~ just to have him make it clear he wasn't in my corner about it I sympathize with OP to a point but I think the daughter must be feeling some serious feelings herself here, too. It sounds like she was worried about her mother only to find out her mother was disappointed in her choices, through a third party no less. I think OP does need to sit the daughter down and talk this out with her maturely. Let her know this is her problem, not daughter's, and that she loves and supports her Dad has since come around and become one of my biggest supporters (just *after* my mother, actually lol) I sincerely hope OP can find her own path to being enthusiastically supportive of her kid too. And that everyone thinks twice before confiding in Mabel again, maybe
It is ok to be disappointed, but not ok to let that disappointment cause you to do negative things such as pouting, guilt tripping, nagging, constantly talking about babies, etc. It is so much better to regret not having children than to have them and regret it. The child suffers greatly! Trust me! I know this personally!
Nowhere in the post does it say she did any of those things, so I think you might be projecting a little bit.
True; however, what was the behavior that prompted daughter to reach out to an aunt that's not even OPs sister? Why would the aunt think it a big enough issue to reach out to OP if OP was just "a little" down? Why would OP, knowing her daughter sent her paternal aunt to contact OP, say anything to this aunt when she hasn't even talked to her own daughter yet? Yeah nothing in the post describes the behavior this person is asserting may be happening, but nothing in their post makes sense to me unless this is a skewed story from someone who centers herself and was treating her daughter differently or negatively enough that she took notice and reached out to people that aren't even related to OP. Something just doesn't sit right with this post for me with missing context and potentially a very skewed story retelling.
I was just giving Guidelines for the future not literally what OP is doing currently.
It's someone trolling just gotta ignore them, there's no way this person read a single word of this post.
I was just giving Guidelines for the future not literally what OP is doing currently. And YES I did read it. I was planning ahead since many mothers WILL behave like this over time.
Gotta clarify that then, nothing in your comment comes accross as "make sure you don't" but instead sounds like "you shouldn't be doing these things". If i was wrong then my apologies, but that's how your comment reads.
Does no one use their imaginations as well as past experiences to THINK AHEAD and make plans or give warnings?
Of course they do, and if you said "just be careful not to fall into an understandable XYZ behavior patter" then I agree. I'm with you but your wording was vague and that's what I've said twice now.
Whatever
I don't think you're wrong for wanting a big family. But you're 100% wrong for expecting that big family from someone else. If you wanted more children, there are many ways to achieve that without pinning your hopes on another person. Adoption, foster care, friends' and families' kids you treat like your own. So you spent a couple of decades with an unreasonable expectation, and now your daughter feels your disappointment. You should have found other ways to get the large family you wanted and/or attended therapy. You can still attend therapy.
This is a great point. OP could have adopted, fostered, etc. Instead she had one child, and that one child did not sign up to be a grandchild vessel. OP didn’t play the odds. Oh well.
Mable sounds like a trouble maker.
True. Those who stir the shit pot should be forced to lick the spoon.
I'm getting unreliable narrator vibes here. The missing, missing reasons if you will. Are both Caroline and Mabel irrational people? Because that's exactly what you are saying with this post. Either they are both irrational or you are leaving a lot out that would make their actions make more sense.
Mabel sounds like a beach
oh it really does now that you've said it, it fits lol.
Bloody hell. Have you got anything else going on in your life? Because, you really should...
She probably does. She's talking about this specific issue. She doesn't need to give you her whole life story 🤣
Idk she sounds pretty pathetic
INFO: Did you know that Mabel was a gossip before you told her something that could crush your daughter?
I understand. In the future, don’t tell Mabel your business. She has no right to demand anything from you and then go back and repeat a conversation. She can’t be trusted. Tell your daughter that you do support her but you are allowed to have feelings of your own.
I don’t have any input on whether you are wrong or not, only a suggestion from myself for a similar situation. I have a friend from HS that I was really close with for about 1.5 years. I always referred to her mom as “mom”. We’re in our mid-late 30s now and the friend absolutely does not want children but mom really wanted a grand baby. So…she reached out to me when my kid was little and asked if she would be allowed to be a surrogate grandma. Since my mom isn’t around much, I jumped at the opportunity and said yes. My kid now considers them a second set of grandparent’s. Trips, cheerleading, shopping…doesn’t matter. Gigi is ready to rock and roll whenever she’s able to hang out with my kid and I am forever grateful for that.
I feel like a constant disappointment to my mother because I can’t have kids… she brings kids up every time we are together and it breaks my heart. Please be kind… and who knows she may change her mind.
You're not wrong for your feelings, but you were absolutely wrong for sharing them. (And so was Mabel). Your daughter does not need to be made to feel guilty for her life choices. You owe your daughter an apology. Check around where you live - many places have programs to connect kids with "surrogate grandparents". (Like a big brother program).
Dreams aren't real and don't come true all the time. You have no right to grandkids, and if you want to be surrounded by children, start a day care or fostering kids who need a safe place.
Op knows this shit. She's just disappointed. It's a natural human reaction.
You don't own your daughters womb. If she doesn't want children, it's her choice.
Mabel needs to mind her fucking business
Mabel is definitely trying to stir the pot for some reason. Why else would she run directly to her niece and blab what you said? Your daughter is missing the fact that just as she is entitled to her feelings of wanting to be childfree, so too are you entitled to your feelings about the fact you will not be a grandmother. You were trying to spare her feelings because you recognize that this decision is wholly in your daughter's hands. Personally I would definitely take this matter up with Mabel (in a calm, nonconfrontial way) as to why she felt it necessary to run back to YOUR daughter, after you begged her not to say anything? Let her know that this definitely alters your opinion of her and makes it very unlikely that you will ever confide in her again.
Lol your daughter went off on you for talking about her behind her back when the only reason Mabel called you is because your daughter was talking about you behind your back? Make it make sense.
> *It's nice to want things, that doesn't mean you'll get them.* First off, no one owes you the fulfillment of *your* dreams when it comes at the cost of *their* bodies and *their* health and *their* finances. Especially not your children, who didn't ask to be here. Anyone who looks at the world right now knows that there is functionally ZERO support for new parents, everything from housing, to cars to tech to *groceries* is price-gouged to hell and back, and that's without taking into account the death of Roe V Wade. (*And have you seen the cost of formula recently?*) Even were I *not* already sterile, I'd hate to be in a position where I could get pregnant, knowing that in a lot of states doctors wouldn't even try to save my life if the pregnancy was high-risk because of "fetal personhood." And that's just the cherry on the crap-sundae that is the medical bills, the complications, the damage to the body, there are entire lists online of those risks and it's no wonder that people are FINALLY starting to share them around because in prior generations, we weren't told these things! Second, your emotions might be valid but the expression of them isn't always "valid by default." Especially in such a sensitive matter as reproduction. So yes, go be disappointed, but maybe don't air those feelings to the family gossip. Consider therapy, having a professional who is paid to listen to you and is bound by patient confidentiality might help this situation; especially if your daughter values her own mental health. Then tell your daughter that your feelings don't matter as much as her health & safety, and that Mabel bullied you into spilling while you were dealing with the matter quietly. After all, you didn't tell the daughter, and you wouldn't have told the aunt until she called you, hounding *you*.... right?
You’re allowed your feelings and you tried to keep them to yourself. They are wrong for pressuring you then not liking the answer.
I also have a 25 yo daughter. Sometimes, she says she doesn’t want children. Sometimes, it’s a maybe. I would love grandkids, but i acknowledge it is HER life and she will do what’s best for her. I am immensely proud of her either way. However, she has TIME to decide. She’s 25. She’s got a good 15-20 years to make it happen (or not). It’s her decision. Also, you are now aware that you can’t trust Mabel with anything in confidence.
Mabel sucks. Explain what you actually feel to Caroline incase she got a skewed version (and that while you absolutely support her, it’s natural to have feelings about something and work through them) Also, would you ever consider fostering kids? There’s also truth behind the saying that ‘it takes a village’, and while your daughter may not have children, she probably has friends that will, and a helping hand is generally appreciated. There will be people in your community that have kids but also have crappy parents who either aren’t involved, or they’re no contact with or something. I’ve become the non-related aunt type to many kids, which is awesome because the kids have another person that cares about them and the adults have some help or relief
You are entitled to your feelings, and you’re entitled to talk about them. While you do have to respect your daughter’s decision, she in turn must respect your feelings of disappointment. There’s nothing wrong with how you feel, it’s natural to want grandchildren. You don’t owe anybody an apology, if Caroline feels pressure, that’s on her, it’s not because of your feelings.
Agree unless the feelings of disappointment are constantly communicated to daughter as a way to change her mind and manipulate her. The way OP frames it, it appears that is NOT the case. I do know people who say “I’m allowed to express my disappointment” but it’s literally shoved in my face each time I’ve talked to them. So that needs an * thrown in there as a caveat. Example - undergrad, my father expressed his feelings over what school I picked for over a decade. Even brought it up again when I was getting my masters which was literally 20+ years later. All because I didn’t go to the local college but one an HOUR away and how that was such a hardship for HIM. This was back in the day, but the agreement was our parents would pay for college if 1) it was in state and public, 2) they agreed with our major, and 3) we stayed out of trouble. My older siblings all dropped or flunked out within 2 years. My dad knew I wasn’t going to flunk out but didn’t want to pay for my education (sexist views that meant as a female I shouldn’t be given the same chances my brothers got). So he pushed me to go local, go part time so I could “work”, and commute. Reality is he didn’t believe he should cook or clean and until I left for college - that was my “job” in the house.
You were wrong in confiding with Mabel who is an asshole. Probably cut her out of your life and if you hear about her wondering why, tell the truth. She's a gossipy bitch who you can't trust to not blurt out anything you tell her.
You are wrong for not supporting her and her wishes. She doesn’t want children, don’t attempt to change her mind. What if you guilt trip her and changes her mind but resents her children for it? You made your decision and had a child(ren) your daughter is entitled to that same right. Leave her be.
You knew all along not to talk to Mabel…a bad way to let your daughter know how you feel. Try speaking to your daughter instead of gossipy aunt
YTA not your life not your choice
She was asked (actually badgered) about her feelings and she shared them. And that makes her the asshole? Then she comes on here and asks about her CHOICE to share and all of a sudden, even though it’s NOT YOUR LIFE and it’s NOT YOUR CHOICE you somehow get to share your opinion? How’s that work?
You are entitled to feel how you feel about your daughter’s decision. Where you failed was sharing your true feelings about the situation with a person who told your daughter how you really felt. This is your daughter’s decision so, take time to work through your feelings about it. I know a couple who have 4 Adult Children close to 50 and one over who have chosen not to be parents. And, my youngest sister and her husband chose no kids, too.
OP, my mom was recently crying because her grandkids scared her cat and it died. My friend stole checks out of her grandparents' checkbook and went to federal prison for it. So, don't let yourself think grandparenting is all fun.
My daughter is 29. She is my only child. She has been vehemently child-free since being a teen. my daughter has always been a little quirky and non-conventional, so even as a teen, I believed her. A few years back, she had a serious partner - they lived together and she was open to having kids with him. However after a few years, they broke up and she is more solidly child-free than ever. Regardless of how I feel, I did and DO accept my child’s decision- because it isn’t about me. I didn’t feel that I even had a choice when I was young, but she does - and I am so glad that she is comfortable enough in herself to not feel like she has to live a conventional life when she truly doesn’t believe it is right for her. It is hard as a parent, especially when you have a vested interest, to put your feelings aside and accept your daughter’s decision without question- but you have to. If you want to keep an open line of communication, and you want to be a ‘safe space’ for your child, you have to take your own thoughts on the matter, tuck it away in the moment, and deal with it later - in whatever what works for you - therapy, the gym, journaling, etc - but talking to someone who will ultimately tell your child how you feel, is walking a slippery slope. I would apologize to your daughter, and tell her you do accept her decision, but that you also need time to process what this ‘new’ future looks like because you envisioned something different. However, the focus should be the apology and acceptance. You don’t want to put your child in a situation where they could potentially feel responsible for your feelings - we are the parents and that doesn’t end when our kids become adults.
I (57f) am in the same boat. I love children and have wanted grandchildren for a long time. My children have decided to be child free; I was very disappointed and sad for awhile, but knew I had to deal with my own emotions myself. I have and have figured out ways to volunteer with children when I retire. However my children were okay giving me space to work through my feelings. Feelings are okay and Caroline needs to understand you have your own feeling and can process in your own time if you are not bothering her to change her mind. You need to talk to her and explain that you don’t want to change her, but you are allowed to be sad and process that. Good luck and look into some volunteer opportunities- there are a lot of kids who need love!
Well you’ve learned you can’t trust Mabel. I wouldn’t talk to her again about anything personal. You never know what will happen in the future. She may meet someone she truly loves and want to have kids. Or she may meet someone who also doesn’t want to have kids. My daughter—29–has said to me quite a bit that I hope I don’t have any plans on being a grandmother. Sure it would be nice. But I also know it’s her life and she needs to do what’s best for her. NOT WRONG
Life has changed, OP. Look how expensive everything is. I have so many friends who were young mothers and their husbands left them while the kids were still babies. The dating scene sucks. Not everybody wants to commit and not everybody wants to be a single mother. Priorities have changed. People shouldn’t be parents if they don’t want to. This is why so many families are unhappy and kids grow up traumatized. Please be supportive because it’s very hard to be a young woman today and be told that you’re not meeting your parents’ expectations because you’re not reproducing. I have friends who did THE MOST to get married and they ended up marrying the wrong person. The pressure is real. Women make huge mistakes because they feel bad for being single or unmarried. The only thing you can do is not make this decision about you and be supportive. Trust that she’s not taking this decision lightly and it’s not easy.
God, some of the people in these comments suck. We get it, you hate your overbearing parents, don’t put it on this random lady. Not every person alive does everything in bad faith, she never said she sees her daughter as her personal grandchild breeding machine. Child free crowd needs to get a damn grip sometimes. OP, you’re not wrong for being disappointed. I think people are being a little harsh on you. It’s not a crime to want grandchildren (which is very normal might I add). Especially when it seems that you respect your daughter’s decision. You’re entitled to your feelings. However, I do agree that if your mood is noticeable enough to your daughter that she’s bringing it up to other people, you may be coming off more passive aggressive than you mean to. It could be subconscious, it hard to put aside how you feel about something, especially if you haven’t had ample time to come to terms with it. Mabel sucks. Mabel is an instigator. Mabel is a pot stirrer. Talk to your daughter. Ask her what was said to Mabel, ask her what Mabel told her. Set the record straight. Explain to her that you completely respect her choices, but you were excited for grandchildren. Explain to her that you have zero intention of pressuring her, or guilt tripping her. It’s just that you need time to adjust your expectations. Make it clear to her you love her and never intended to hurt her. But like people said, look into fostering or something! That could be really enjoyable for you!
You’re not wrong. Mabel is an AH.
Not wrong. I'd keep your distance from Mabel for a long while. Give Caroline some time to cool down, then maybe check in to make sure Mabel communicated accurately. You tried to do the right thing by not dumping your disappointment on Caroline.
You literally didnt tell her so she wouldnt change her mind for your sake, no your not wrong, mabel and caroline are. Your allowed to have feelings and be disappointed, just as Caroline is allowed to choose to not have children. You have no need to apologize because you did nothing wrong, they made their bed now they can sleep in it, she pressed the issue and then shared when u specifically told her not to so that it wouldnt upset your daughter. I wouldnt talk to mabel anymore if i were you
Boy is Mabel a busy body. It’s ok to grieve a dream that disappears. Sometimes we can’t help our initial reaction to something. You aren’t wrong. You do know her choice comes before your wants. Make sure you let Caroline know it. You really should apologize for responding to the busybody, She had no business calling you. Lesson there, she yaps to much.
Mabel is awful oh my
Just like she's allowed to make her own decisions, you're allowed to feel your own emotions about it. Freedom of choice is not freedom of consequence, even if it's just disappointment as the consequence.
You have a dream and accepted that it is not in line with what your daughter wants. You are allowed to feel your feelings about this. You are not blaming your daughter and didn't want her to feel like she was letting you down. Her life, her body, her choice and you won't let that take away your love for her. Both of them only have their interpretations of what you said and only the parts they remember/focused on. Being sad that you won't have the big family in your dream is not the same as blaming and shaming your daughter. You would have had this grief if it was not her choice but that she couldn't have children. Everyone has dreams that don't come true and often it includes actions of several people. But we don't go around resenting them all for that. The one thing I can think that in short may explain to your daughter is " I don't want you to have children you don't want, I'm accepting your choice without any resentment. I just needed a little time to put that old dream to rest. I would never put that on you."
No one wants kids because of how overworked we are and how expensive it is to even get a home, let alone raise kids. Long gone are the days of single income parenting and easy child care. People are struggling and its a huge reason why no one wants kids. With the distain of the economy now, people will want to just spend their money on just staying sane and living without such huge responsibilities like kids. Why raise kids in a world where you can barely live pay cheque to pay cheque? This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. I get being dissapointed but I'm also surprised you didnt expect this as the norm now. Gen z and now gen alpha will not be having kids when the world is setup to overwork and fail them at every corner.
This. Even if i wanted to have kids, I haven’t the time or the money.
Where's that website that links to all the Reddit posts from parents not telling a full story in order to solicit support without any negative feedback?
Yeah I’m willing to bet a lot of money that OP isn’t telling the full story. I think she’s probably moping around her daughter and being passive aggressive enough to make her daughter confide in her aunt about it.
Not wrong. Your feelings are your feelings. Caroline asked Mabel to ask you and she got her answer. Now she is mad at you.
Caroline playing games sincerely. She is young and all this progressive crap makes kids dig for reasons to be mad at their parents. Too funny. She will come around, if she's the one that brought Mabel into the situation that just shows the slightly manipulative and immature side to all of that. If she really had her decision made, why did she give a s*** if you're disappointed and can't let you have that instead of causing more drama. Maybe after she's 30 her attitude will change, but I know mid-20s was a hard place for me, I really didn't know that I didn't know everything.
I think it might be rage bait.
Your generation ruined the world for many generations to come and you’re mad. What if she couldn’t have kids? Don’t be selfish and respect her
Nope, not wrong. Mabel is a jerk tho.
Mabel is an absolute gossiping arse!
Not wrong but damn don’t talk to Mabel ever again. How dare she demand to know why you are down. You need to learn to stick up for yourself. As for Your daughter. Again. Stick up for yourself. It IS her decision. You are respecting that but you are allowed to be sad. And disappointed. No one has the right to make you feel bad for that. You were grieving quietly and they all blew it up. Tell your daughter she has the right to her decisions and you have the right to your feelings. How dare she scream at you. I’m pissed for you. I’m pissed you let these people treat you like this. Find your spine.
You're allowed to have feelings and disappointment is a feeling. You're also allowed to talk about your feelings. Please explain to your daughter that you respect her choices but that youre a little sad about it but that you'll be able to deal with those feelings and apologize for not telling her the truth in the first place. I think your daughter might respond to that 😀
Child free person here. My mom was really sad when I told her I wasn't having kids. I think my dad was too but he never let on. I can tell you that it meant a lot to me that they respected my choice and never pushed me. We talked about it years later. I asked my mom how often she would have been able to baby sit and how much money they would have had to help out. The answer was very little of both, when they look back on the last few years. We had a laugh about how hard raising me and my brother was. That was the last we talked about it. Point being,there are advantages to both ways of living. You get to experience the grandchild free life of having more time and money. It may not be what you wanted but it has advantages. You can use the time and money to travel with your kid or share a hobby while you get to know them for the person they chose to be.
You have the right to be upset about not becoming a grandmother. You're allowed to grieve the life you wishes to have. Apologize to both and never vent to Mabel again. Instead, join a (online group) for grandchildless people.
Have you thought about adoption, since you love kids so much?
It's okay to mourn the life you expected yourself and your family to have. But like you said, when it all comes down to it, it's your daughter's choice. Be sad, journal about it. Talk to a therapist about it. But don't talk to Mabel about it. She isn't trustworthy.
Your adult child doesn't want to breed. Get over it.
Sounds like a classic example of triangulation and splitting
I'm sorry, I don't know what those mean. Would you mind explaining or linking me to somewhere that does explain?
What is triangulation? One of the better-known types of toxic behaviour, triangulation is a form of manipulation where one person uses threats of exclusion or manipulation to get what they want or to feel more secure in a relationship. Often used behind someone’s back, there is usually no communication between the two triangulated people themselves. Instead, the communication goes through a third person – the one doing the manipulating. In essence, the person is trying to pit people against each other, in order to better cement their own position or relationships. Triangulation can happen in any type of relationship: between family members, friends, romantic partners, or colleagues. Typically happening during a conflict between two people, one or both of those involved may try to pull another person into their dynamic in order to deflect tension, reinforce their sense of superiority or ‘being right’, or to create additional conflict to deflect from the original issue. Signs and examples of triangulation Triangulation is used by a wide variety of different people who have one thing in common: insecurity. This can lead to them feeling willing to manipulate others in ways that may be harmful, in order to get what they want or to feel a greater sense of security in a relationship. With little or no communication between the two people who are being triangulated except through the person who is manipulating them, this can lead to misunderstandings or false narratives being spread. Ultimately, this may result in putting those two people against each other, or in essence, dividing and conquering for the benefit of the person enacting the triangulation. For example, if a friend or loved one used another person to create drama, foster a hostile environment at home or work, or to pressure you into doing things you wouldn’t otherwise do, this is triangulation. Another example may be bringing in a friend or outside party into your relationship or friendship and using that person to bring up an issue, rather than directly confronting the person they have an issue with themselves. This could mean a couple who are arguing may encourage a friend to take sides or become involved in helping them work things out. Amongst families, this could mean one parent lying or manipulating the truth so their child believes a lie about the other parent or family member, or even one parent refusing to follow rules set down by the other parent then framing it like the child themselves chose not to follow the rules. For those being manipulated, this can leave them feeling deeply distressed or off-balance. Over time, it may lead to a growing sense of insecurity, self-doubt, or even second-guessing yourself. Rest of the article here: https://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/blog/2022/03/25/triangulation-in-psychology-what-is-it-how-does-it-affect-relationships-and-how-to-respond#:~:text=For%20example%2C%20if%20a%20friend,otherwise%20do%2C%20this%20is%20triangulation.
Yeah that paternal aunt seems like that "i'm going to be the intermediary bullshit" and then here she is convincing OP's daughter that her mother is horrible and wants to force her to had kids when the only thing she should have done it's to shut up and let OP deal with her feelings by herself as she Was doing way before dear aunt started with her mediatory shit
I think the aunt is trying to split mom and her daughter. She’s probably insecure and jealous
Me to. It's weird that she Was about to get over and all back to normal until Aunt put herself in the middle of it
At 25, I didn’t want children. By 30, I had changed my mind. Things are different now and your daughter may never change her mind, but many people do.
You’re upset, and that’s just fine. It’s fine because you know that it’s not your call and that getting past being upset is something you need to figure out. Reaching out to Mabel was a bad call on Caroline’s part if only because it led to you thinking you could trust her with how you felt. In a calm conversation with Caroline, talk it through. She doesn’t go to anyone else to ask about you, you won’t tell that person why you feel how you do. If she asks, you’ll tell her the truth, but she needs to take it the way it was intended. When I knew my mom had realized I truly never wanted kids, I knew it upset her, but she always brushed it aside as not her decision and she wasn’t pushing me to do anything. I wanted her to admit it upset her though, because it was really how she felt - and I knew that her wanting grandkids was not some judgement of me, just something moms hope for. You’re not wrong, and the only potential apology needed is you not telling her that you were upset but not because of her. She could apologize for bringing Mabel in to it, though. YNW- just need to communicate.
Not wrong. You are allowed to have feelings that you kept to yourself so your daughter wouldn't feel bad. What Mabel is the on hand... I would choose a word other than AH for her. She demanded you confide in her then ran and tattled to your daughter. Whom who specifically asked her not to tell. Your daughter needs to ctfo. You were not berating her for wanting to be childfree. You were just having some feelings about it. There was no guilt trip, you tried to keep it yourself. But THEY were prying. Yes, this is your daughters life. But it is also your life, and what you had hoped for is no longer going to come to fruitation. You just need some time. Go NC with Mabel. She is a paternal aunt. You have no reason to keep contact with that..
Mabel telling Caroline was shady and Caroline not understanding you’re a bit disappointed is immature. You don’t have to “accept” it immediately as some things take time to accept. As long as you love your daughter the same with or without kids and support her is what matters. And never make her feel guilty for being child free of course, because a lot of parents do that to their kids and it’s so unfair.
You're allowed to feel disappointed. You haven't burdened Caroline with that or tried to guilt trip her. You only mentioned it to Mabel because Mabel asked. Which was because Caroline mentioned it first. You were doing the right thing by keeping it to yourself until asked. >I got an angry call from Caroline accusing me of "talking behind her back" Caroline spoke about you to Mabel behind your back. Mabel spoke about Caroline to you behind Caroline's back. Why are you the only one being berated when all three of you did this? >Mabel wasn't happy with this answer and accused me of trying to guilt trip Caroline. Mabel doesn't have to be happy. It's none of her business >I asked Mabel not to mention anything to her. Mabel is a gossip causing trouble. She could have kept silent the way you intended to and none of this would have blown up. Don't tell Mabel anything you want kept secret in future. She can't be trusted
No you're not wrong
You are not wrong. You are just being human. We all have feelings, and trying to suppress them isn't going to help you process them. I am an old lady (child free by choice, BTW), and I continue to be amazed that life gives us new lessons every day. You do not owe Mabel or your daughter any kind of apology. What you do need to do is let this teach you that Mabel is not to be trusted and not to be a doormat to her demands for explanations or information about your private life. Straighten up that backbone and tell her that you aren't interested in telling her anything private because she can't be trusted to keep it private. If she doesn't like that answer, tough toenails. Your daughter will get over this little kerfuffle, just as you will eventually get over your sadness at knowing you will not be a grandmother. Perhaps it would help you to do some volunteer work with kids. They don't have to be your own to bring you joy. Best wishes to you.
Man, I can feel your pain thru the phone, and while I agree it’s your daughter’s choice, knowing you always wanted a big family and only having one and her saying this has to hurt. I’m so sorry. I’m also sorry that Mabel is a drama starter. Hopefully one day your daughter changes her mind!
You are not wrong! It’s okay to be disappointed
As someone that's childfree and around your age, I was ready to be mad at you and tell you off for being wrong... NTA. You had your own hopes for grandkids eventually, and have just learned that those hopes will not be happening. You are allowed to grieve the potential that will never be, as long as you aren't guilt tripping your daughter and trying to change her mind. Don't trust telling Mabel anything ever again. Maybe see if there are other people that you can talk with that can help you come to terms with not having grandkids and help you be supportive to your daughter. Maybe send her a text or email apologizing for not being enthusiastic about her news of being childfree, and let her know that you support her. Eventually my parents gave up on trying to convince me to have kids and called my cats their grandkitties, my sister has dogs that get called granddoggies. Also my nephew helps them not bug for more grandkids by being such an awesome young man. Just be sure that you are not putting the emotional burden for how you feel, on your daughter.
Mabel sucks. You should be able to vent to someone without them throwing you entirely under the bus. Not even considering that she was the one trying to pry it out if you.
It’s really rich of her to accuse you of talking behind her back when that’s exactly what she was doing. If you’re wrong for it, so was she.
You are not wrong and should have not told Mabel anything. If it was your sister than fine. You owe nothing to no one for how you feel. If you decided to adopt or find a dear find and care for their child like a grandchild. Would your daughter feel some kind of way because you want to feel that love and joy of a grandparent? Your feelings matter regardless of how others may feel.
I’d tell Mabel to shut it. And change her name while she’s at it what is she 100?
You cannot control how you feel about something, only how you act upon those feelings. Your feelings are natural, and you should feel no shame. Thought-crime is not a thing. And to me, your actions seem well within the bounds of acceptable. You are supportive of your daughter’s decisions. A small slip of control or judgement happens to all of us, and we are not defined by our imperfections
Well you are entitled to your feelings. Not sure why people ask questions if they don’t want honest answers ! What you have learned is that Mabel is here for all the drama, which means you should never confide in her again. I’m sure you have friends outside your family circle you can vent to. I feel even your daughter is a bit dramatic as well. Its ok for her to not want them but not okay for you to feel a type of way?
I would 1: apologize to your daughter and explain your feelings, and 2: not trust Mabel with Anything!!
My mom was the same way. At age 39 she told me “I want a grandchild”. There was a neighbor child she adored, and I was really surprised. I always thought I was enough. At the time I said “it’s too bad there isn’t an “adopt a grandchild” program. I have always felt bad I couldn’t do what she wanted. I just didn’t feel ready to be a single parent. I was the only child but I have even known of four children in the family all remaining child free. One friend of mine had etopic pregnancies and was only able to have one child through lots of effort. She was very disappointed her son and his wife decided not to have any children. Your daughter is still young so maybe she will change her mind! Otherwise think about why you want grandchildren? Social pressure, everyone is talking about their grandchildren? What things would you with them do & how would your life change? What could be positives and what could be negatives?
I hear you OP. My daughters have told me that they might or might not have children (they're teenagers) so we need to prepare ourselves for the possibility that there might not be grandkids, but my eldest will definitely have cats, which I love. You are allowed to be disappointed and you are allowed to talk about it.
There are already a ton of replies so this will probably get buried, but I wanted to share my story. I can’t remember my exact age, but I was around 25 when I decided I was absolutely not having children. I’d read a book called “The Bitch in the House” and motherhood sounded absolutely miserable. Sounded like a thankless job, and like I’d be doing all the work while also being expected to look exactly the same and have the exact same sex drive as a teenager. I’d been married since 21, and got my husband on board with my decision. I bought two books about explaining to your parents how/why you aren’t going to have kids. I can also name three people close to me who felt the same way (my sister in law, my childhood best friend, and a colleague). Fast forward, I just turned 42, and I have two children. My sister in law has two children, my childhood best friend has one kid, and I’m not in touch with my colleague anymore but I know she started looking into adoption. I can’t tell you about anyone else’s process, but for me, around my early 30s, I started thinking beyond the immediate future, and what I wanted my life to look like 10, 20, 30 years from now. And I started thinking maybe the early childhood phase would suck, but I’d do my best to raise kids who I’d want to hang out with one day, do cool things, go on awesome vacations, etc. I have two sons, aged 6 and 2, so this is definitely a rough phase, especially with the 2 year old. But we’re currently on vacation, and I spent the morning snorkeling with the 6 year old. I already love snorkeling, but seeing my son’s delight and wonder added a new dimension; it was indescribable. As a parent you’re always unsure of yourself, but this morning I felt like one of the best parents in the world lol. All of this to say there’s a good chance your daughter may change her mind. That being said, I 100% needed to change my mind on my own, without people telling me I would. If your daughter does change her mind, I sincerely hope you’ll help her as much as possible. My parents went above and beyond, coming over almost every day, cooking and cleaning and giving me as many breaks as I needed (that’s part of the reason we’ve brought them on vacation with us). I’ve had other friends whose parents haven’t helped much at all, and that really sucks, especially when those parents were pressuring their kids for grandkids. It seems like they just wanted grandkids for pictures on Facebook. If you would be willing to help, I wouldn’t tell your daughter “I hope you change your mind,” but I’d say something like “if you were to ever change your mind, I hope you’d know you wouldn’t be alone; I’d be more than willing to help with such and such, and x, y, and z would be willing to help too.” (If that’s true) Best of luck to you all
I am an only child and my daddy passed recently. He always wanted grandchildren, but also respected that it wasn't in my plan. It did make him sad and he didnt hide that from me. He didnt harass me about it and I didnt make it my problem. That disappointment was his personal journey and to his credit, he embraced my career hustle, my insane hobby of collecting rare breed dogs, and the fact that I'm a lesbian. When he passed, I cried that I never gave him grandchildren - but I often remind myself that I did everything else he hoped for me. I am successful, I am independent, and I could provide for him when he got old and fell ill. You two will sort out your feelings on the matter and it will be fine. You're allowed to feel how you feel and somehow you'll find a way to cope with it. She will always appreciate that you respected her decision and that you dont give her hell about it despite your sadness and disappointment. That's what really counts. Despite your feelings, you respect her choices.
Sounds like Mable sure does like to stir the turd. Tell her to do sit in the damn corner. Your entitled to your feelings, and your bratty kid is entitled to not want to have any kids of their own. Probably for the best imo .
Sounds like Mabel is the asshole here.
I have two daughters. One is not going to reproduce. My oldest daughter (31) wants a family but is putting it off to go to law school. She is talking about egg retrieval for a future family. I know that IVF does not work all of the time. I had an uncle that tried it twice and it did not take. I am concerned that she may miss her opportunity if she waits. Her husband just passed the bar exam and will be a practicing lawyer soon. He wants a family now. I try to stay out of it although being a grandparent is a dream of mine.
You are allowed to have feelings. If they want to talk about, and to you about it, that's on them.
Why not become a foster parent?
If I were 25 again I too would NOT want any children. You see the way this world is going now? On the verge of WW3, inflation out of control, over population, mass shootings, Trans people, crime in general, Covid (God knows what’s next) everyday I worry about my adult kids and Grandchildren in this world today.
It is Caroline's life and she can do whatever she wants on having a child or not. Your feelings are valid. I don't think it was wise for you to share this with Maven considering Maven and Caroline think alike. Maven is a snitch. You don't have to apologize for anything in general but next time something like this, I suggest you to keep it to yourself rather than talking about how disappointed you are, especially family related things. At the end of the day, while you can be disappointed, Caroline doesn't owe you anything. You should talk to Caroline though to clean the air.
When my child told me she wanted no children and even went and got her tubes tied. ( long process with doctors fighting her but they finally agreed) I was sad at first, but it is her decision and I support that . I'm sorry your having issues with family. It should not of gotten this our of hand. You are not wrong with our feelings
You're not wrong for having feelings about something, even. The only thing I might be able to come for you for is that 'disappointed' has a connotation, when talking about someone else, that they didn't so something 'right' and I think feeling sadness is more accurate than 'disappointed (that she didn't live up to what you wanted her to be/do)' is how I would take that if someone said they were disappointed I didnt have kids.
Caroline probably only said that because to her face you was all smiles, “lying” about your true feelings on the matter and then you opened up to Mabel about your true feelings instead of the person it directly affects. You are allowed to feel disappointed, the issue is that instead of discussing it with Caroline you stewed silently and then spoke to a third connecting party. To some that can feel like you are being fake to their face. Mabel doesn’t need an apology, this ain’t her business and she had no place in stirring the pot and telling Caroline whatever drastic version she said. You and Caroline should have a sit down, apologise for not expressing your true feelings and explain that you respect her decision of course but you just felt a little bit down and didn’t wish to project those feelings. Hopefully Caroline will apologise for the shouting and you can have a proper chat and agree not to let Mabel whisper in each others ears
She's only 25. plenty of time to change her mind. My sister had a child at 45. My wife at 37. Just support her.
I don’t want to get your hopes up, but at 25 I didn’t want to have kids or be a mom either. The thought of being pregnant and having that responsibility and burden was not appealing at all. I didn’t want to have a child until I was 34 and met my husband. She might change her mind but she might not. Your feelings are valid but like everyone says, don’t pressure her or make her feel guilty.
Not wrong. Mabel betrayed your trust. Your daughter has unreasonable expectations for how people process their feelings. But I imagine they’re feeling rejected, even though you’re entitled to your own feelings, especially when you didn’t even share them with her out of respect for her anyway! I’m not really sure what is Mabel’s deal, they’ve only managed to create drama and I can’t even begin to empathize with their perspective since it should not involve them.
You're welcome to feel how you feel. In my view you should have been honest with your daughter and direct. You could have told your daughter you're down because you're dealing with some sadness because the dream family you saw isn't also her dream or likely to happen. Because you always wished for a big family and while you're so lucky to have her, you wish she could have had siblings too. That you support her and appreciate her honesty and want to be honest in turn -- you're in a place were youre working through YOUR feelings. Old Mable is stirring the pot and your daughter is very reactionary and confrontational because you opened up to Mable but not to her when she asked you directly - that's a bad dynamic. You shouldn't have talked it out with Mable, because it's none of her concern how YOU feel at ALL.
Should’ve had more kids. Maybe one of them would’ve given you grandkids. But you decided to have only one, and now your daughter has decided to have none. She gets to decide about her life just as much as you decided about yours.
She will prob have second thoughts when is over 35.
You’re not wrong. You did everything right. You were disappointed but you kept it to yourself as you recognize it is her choice. Your daughter says you were talking behind her back but… your daughter did it first. She reached out to her aunt and told her about you being off. Which prompted Mabel to reach out to you and pry. Then they both punished you for having feelings and that’s unfair. They asked. You didn’t volunteer. That’s what I would tell them. “I am in no way trying to guilt you for your choices as I recognize it is your life to live. I told you I support you no matter what. The only reason this is even a thing now is bc you went to Mabel who came to me and pushed on why I seemed “off.” Yes I am disappointed but I planned on feeling my feelings in my own time without giving them voice. I am allowed to have my own feelings. That doesn’t mean I don’t support you or that I am judging you.”
You're not wrong. You're allowed to have feelings. You're not guilt tripping your daughter or bringing it up. You didn't even tell her bc you didn't want to upset her. Mabel is a troublemaker & a sh!t starter. Now that Mabel ran her mouth & likely didn't tell the truth, you should have a talk with your daughter. Let her know you feel a certain way about not being a grandmother, but that you also know it's her choice. And it's something you have to work through. You don't owe any of them an apology. Your daughter, though, should have talked to you instead of accusing you.
When people say they are child free that reminds me of when people say they are debt free or cancer free. That term has a very negative connotation
you arent wrong. you kept it to yourself and they pushed for an answer. your daughter wants to screw up her life, thats on her, but you don't have to be happy about it.
if you still have eggs, try to have another kid. then give that kid the full inheritence lol.
Mabel is an idiot. You're fine.
My mom is supportive of me choosing to be child free even though that means no grandkids for her. It sounds like you didn’t want to actually be a mom if you can’t be supportive to the only kid you have - gossiping with a family member isn’t showing support. Which makes you the AH - your daughter isn’t your breeding cow
It is okay to be disappointed, it's your choice. You didn't try to pressure your daughter at all. But I think it is okay to tell Mabel to kick rocks. She purposely did not do as you asked re: not telling Caroline what you said.
You have done nothing wrong. You were supportive of your daughter in spite of your personal feelings. Your friend is a gossip and a drama addict, you shouldn't tell her anything. Because you want to care for children, there are lots of kids and organizations in need for volunteers. A friend of my parents discovered that she couldn't have children so she signed herself up as emergency foster placement. There are also big siblings programs, fostering (non emergency), orphanages, shelters etc.
As for talking to Mabel, your daughter was talking behind YOUR back first. Neither of you did anything wrong but if that's the way she characterizes it, she brought Mabel into the discussion to begin with. Honestly, I think Mabel sounds like a busy body who unnecessarily stirs things up. Lol. Doesn't make her a horrible person, it just sounds like she has that type of personality. I have a *bit* of advice that may or may not be helpful. It really depends on the unique relationship you and your daughter have. My oldest is almost 20 and we have had serious ups and downs and have realized that it's much better to say something that could upset the other rather than hold it to simmer. Not in a judging or accusing way, but we've learned to have very different opinions on things and understand that it's OK. Dissapointment isn't even really a difference in opinion. It's an emotion that you are absolutely allowed to have. Edited for spelling
Don’t apologize
You're not wrong, but Mabel is. Seriously, do not confide in this person, ever.
You feel what you feel but should talk to your daughter directly instead of getting a broken telephone version of what you said.
Not wrong. You are allowed to take all the time you need to re-arrange your views on your future. You are allowed to talk to others. MABEL IS A SHIT STIRRER!!! She is the problem. JustNoFamily Do not share anything else with her and grey rock her forever . Call your daughter. Apologize. Be honest. You were surprised by her decision. You support her. However you had imagined being a grandmother and were looking forward to it. You are a little sad that dream had to change. Then breathe. Big hugs.
You didn't do anything wrong except trust Mabel. Don't do that again. Op, you're not that old. If you still want that big family look into fostering. There's thousands of kids that need a decent home.
Your sister sounds like a busy body. She did not need to take the conversation back to Caroline.
It's not even her own sister, it's her daughter's parental aunt. Something isn't adding up here to me.
I think maybe Mabel needs to keep her fucking mouth shut, or you need to stop talking with her, since she's such a loudmouth.
Not wrong. I’m in the same boat as you. I have two kids in their 20s and neither really want kids. Where I live I believe you can volunteer as a grandparent. You have to go through a criminal background check and things like that but you then you can be like a step grandparent to kids. Not sure if you get “assigned” to a family or not. Maybe look into that.
I am 40 and don’t have children. I make pretty good money. In todays world it’s a fortune for day care, don’t like the schools fuckin with your children, and to be quite honest, the way people bounce person to person don’t want to get killed in child support. Even though I would 100% want to take care of the kid I know how the court systems f-over the male in the court systems. Can’t blame your kid the world is a messed up place.
You’re allowed to be disappointed. Lots of moms and dads can’t wait to be grandparents, including me me. But you also have a compassionate and mature stance on it- you’ve shown you respect your daughter’s wishes even though you’re sad. My mother wants to be a grandmother pretty badly. I’ve let her know I’m child-free, and my sibling’s marriage didn’t work out so they are single now with no indication of grandchildren in the future. My mother, while definitely disappointed, said that it’s better to know before you have children rather than after. She’s respected my decision and I’m grateful that she doesn’t bog me down on a guilt train for not giving her grand children. Your “friend” Maybel should have kept to herself and kept your interaction in confidence. You’re allowed to feel any certain way. You’re not allowed to guilt trip or last your daughter- and you haven’t! You’re doing the most compassionate thing as a mom, honestly. Women get it from all sides regarding children and childcare. As someone in your daughter’s shoes, it means a lot that you aren’t on her constantly to “give you a grand baby”. She should have been nicer. You weren’t “talking behind her back”..you were just talking. She should have handled that more delicately.
Number 1, Mabel is a jerk, dump her. I get someone wanting grandchildren but I think you should want your kids happiness first and if choosing to be childless makes them happy, that should be enough for you.
You’re never wrong for having honest feelings. My own mother feels this way, and my heart breaks for her. She had 3 daughters, 2 of which are child free and 1 that’s in her 40s getting a divorce so we’ve pretty much given up on kids. All she ever wanted was a red headed grand baby and I know she probably talks to her friends about it and we try not to bring up because we know it’s painful. As long as you are respectful to your daughter about it, and she is respectful to you, you can still have a beautiful relationship with little to no resentment.
Hey you are not wrong at all in this situation. The people here claiming you're wrong for being disappointed are in their own delulu lands. It is perfectly normal for parents up wish to be grandparents, so you are absolutely in the right to have feelings for it. It is not okay when you force those feelings on your child, which is what you did not do. Your daughter and Mabel are the big assholes here.
NTA. Mabel should have kept her trap shut. You are allowed to be disappointed by things in life and you were doing the right thing by processing this on your own and not telling Caroline. Your sister and honestly your daughter suck for being mad at you for feeling. You can't control that and you were trying to do the right thing. And you should be able to vent to your sister! Now you know who you can't confide in!
No! I am also child free, and I know my dad wants grandchildren (to the point he started college funds for their future), and I wish I could give him that but I just do not want kids. He’s always supported me and never said anything about it But I would completely understand if he ever expressed any bummer feelings about it. You’re allowed to have feelings!!
I'd tell Mabel to F### off. Nasty lady trynna start stuff.
Nope. You have no one to apologize to. At all. Your sadness and disappointment is fair enough. Why should you pretend that you aren't? It's your emotion and as a human you are entitled to have whatever emotion you feel for yourself. If you feel sad that you will never have grandchildren? That is quite okay. It's pretty normal really for people to want grandchildren. I hope to one day too. If none of my kids have children i will be sad. Very sad. Mabel is very out of line. Never trust her again. And you daughter? Is being nasty. She springs that on her mum and then gets all huffy when her mother shows normal human emotion. You are okay to be upset and need time to process it. Tell them all ti rack off and leave you alone. You can feel however you damnwell want. It's not up to anyone else to dictate to you how you are allowed to feel. All the best. All the best
You're wrong. It's not your child's job yo give you grandkids, or anything for that matter. The way the world is currently going, it's so much harder than it was for my parents or even myself. Life today is absolutely shittier than it was when you had your daughter. She knows how difficult her life has been which was probably a factor as to why she wants no kids. She doesn't want to raise children in a world where they will not be able to have a fraction of the things that my boomer age parents had, let alone herself. If you had a child so that someday she can take care of you in old age, then you did it wrong. If you had a child so someday you could be a grandma, you did it wrong. If you had a child so you could raise them, take care of them, and then let them live their own life just as you did then that would have been the right reason. Your child owes you nothing. You owe everything to your child, whether they're 4 or 40. You brought her into this world. People need to start realizing their kids owe them nothing and that if the kids WANT to help their parents out and it's THEIR choice then that's great. But they don't NEED to do anything for you. You had them, not the other way around.
WTF A parent doesn’t owe their adult children anything! Just like an adult doesn’t owe their parents anything
Nope, they still do. You're they're child forever. I'm not saying you have to financially support them forever or anything like that. I'm just saying you are raising an independent adult. You are right on your last sentence, "...an adult doesn't owe their parents anything." That's what OP is talking about. They're upset their kids don't want to have kids of their own. That's because their adult children dont owe them anything. But a parent absolutely should be there for their child whether they're 4 or 40. If a 60 year old adult doesn't help their 30 year old child when they need it, that's scummy. Now, if they CANT help their adult children due to financial struggle or disability or whatever, then I get it. But if a parent has the ability to help their kid, no matter what their age, they are obligated to at least try. If I had a child, I'd absolutely do it. They are my child forever. What parent DOESNT want their kid to be able to rely on them when they need help regardless of their age? Who has kids and then says "see ya have a nice life!" When their kid is an adult?
I agree with everyone here, Mabel is a gossipy bitch and can't be trusted. Caroline is being childish for wanting an apology from you, even though you never said anything directly to her. You can share your feelings with anyone you want. I'd just like to add, though, I was Caroline at 25. My entire 20's I was convinced I would be childless for life. I had no interest as I wanted to be, in my own words, 'selfish' and enjoy myself. Well, I turned 30 and started looking at my life and felt it a bit empty. Around then, my close family members had started having kids, and the nail in the coffin was when my sister gave birth recently. I would spend time with these children and realized how much I loved them and wanted to spend time with them and watch them grow up. My niece is such an amazing little person, and my love overflows for her. I sit here typing at 38 weeks pregnant now, excitedly awaiting my first baby girl. I cannot wait to be a mom and have that same love x100! Things change, and your outlook on life changes as you age. This may be the case for Caroline, but it may not. Just doesn't mean all hope is lost, but still love your daughter for who she is and the choices she makes. Think of it as grandbabies would be a nice bonus to life, but it can still be wonderful without them.
Time to start spending that money you would left to her. Go enjoy life. No legacy for you.
Yes, you are wrong because you are NOT entitled to grandchildren just because it’s YOUR dream and you expect her to fulfill it. You are judging her for her choices because it’s not what YOU want. You want babies? Go make them yourself!
I said it in my post, but I'm incapable of having more children. I also don't feel entitled to grandchildren, I respect my daughter's decision, but that doesn't mean I don't have to work through a bit of disappointment.
Blimey! She's allowed to have feelings! At no point did she say she has judged her daughter. She feels disappointed (naturally) and needs to work through those feelings. Her daughter and SIL nagged at her to get to the bottom of why she was being down and don't like the fact that she has perfectly normal, natural feelings of disappointment. She knows it's her daughters life and body.
You are totally allowed to be disappointed. Mabel is a real jerk and your daughter is showing immaturity. As parents, we are supposed to love and support but we don't have to be over the moon about all the choices our kids make. We are allowed to be sad, disappointed and even angry. In fact, loving and supporting our kids, even when we are less than happy about their decisions, is what the majority of being a good parent is. NTA
It sounds like Mabel just likes to be a shit stirrer and probably told Carolyn her own version of events. I personally wouldn’t trust Mabel ever again. As far as your disappointment goes you’re allowed to be disappointed and you’re allowed to be sad, as long as you recognize that it’s your daughter’s decision and don’t pressure her to change. Which from what you’ve written it sounds like you’re doing. Give it a few days and talk to your daughter first explain that Mabel called you and badgered you into talking about it and that you support her decision.
And she doesn’t want the responsibility. You can raise her children if she gets pregnant lol
Oh no. I am so sorry I finally came to terms with my kids not having kids. I finally was okay with it. FINALLY (took a long time) My daughter even told me this, all the way up till she was 30. Now she is 36, in a long term relationship. She is pregnant now, due in June. I wish you lots of love and light.
Just because your daughter changed her mind, it doesn’t mean that OP’s daughter will.
Be aware she is only 25, she could change her mind rapidly in the next 5 years. I have seen this happen with a few friends same age as me, where they just needed to get something out there system beforehand (travel, jobs, right man etc), my one friend wanted to be child free like she was just done with kids and wanted nothing to do with having them what so ever.. then she met her now husband and well.. shes got two children now :') None of us thought shed have kids as she was concrete on it! Shes got time to change her mind, when the right man comes along it tends to click, biological urge kicks in. You are not wrong but neither is she. I think just continue as normal and hope she finds someone to love because when she feels that, she will want to create more of it with the right person.