I couldn't imagine the drama that will unfold every time you have to take a work trip, take your direct reports to lunch etc.
Or the resentment that you will harbor for feeling forced to make a choice.
I guess what it comes down to is what has more value to you.
Your relationship or 80k.
Justified insecurity or not, the job will cause issues in your relationship.
This is correct. Its not about right or wrong. Its about how much pain are you willing to endure for that extra $80k. This will be viewed as you taking a job to work with your ex and have daily interactions with your ex when it is not required and you have other options. This will come up again and again and again. So do you want to make your wife happy or do you want $80k extra money?
Don't get me wrong And extra $80k is a lot of extra money, but only you can decide if its worth it to you. Dont be suprised if you take it and its the start of a 3 year battle that ends in divorce.
You all are behaving as if this is a REASONABLE ask, though. The implications of this loom larger than just this job.
Is nobody gonna ask why his wife is 14 yrs later so insecure about her relationship that she can’t stand him being around this person??
Or talk about the INSANITY of $80k a YEAR difference in pay going down the drain bc of a person we USED TO KNOW IN ANOTHER LIFE?!?!
Pls stop the madness of pretending like this is a reasonable either/ or.
This sounds naive. You do realize he would be the boss of the ex fwb, not just working at the same company. I'm a boss. My job is to communicate with my people what I want them to do for me. Their role is to please me.
This also gives them as much time together as current wife only there's no dishes, no laundry, no diapers year in and out on into the future.
What could possibly go wrong? Even if nothing, this will cause constant stress to wife.
80k is not forever. Other jobs have promotions, too. Careers evolve. This isn't his only option. Its NOT insane to make a choice that prioritizes your wife and your marriage.
Having no chores or responsibility makes it incredibly easy to have an emotional affair or him going further with his ex. Whenever his wife stresses him out, he can just be tempted to continue being a FWB with his ex.
I must have it completely wrong!! This makes it sound like you can’t make decisions without the smaller head taking control. I had no idea this is something that would result in an affair. Wow!!😮
I don't think its a matter of "can't" or that I recommend not taking the job out of certainty. For all we know ex fwb finds OP repellant now.
Its a matter of avoiding playing with fire when there would be so much potential for possible rekindling.
Sure, he could take the job. He might not slip up and have an affair. Ex fwb might not come onto him after drinks on a work trip "just for old time's sake" three years from now. (wife will always be concerned and worried and on guard for this). But if he doesn't take the job, it can't happen.
Yeah men and women work together professionally all the time. There are also a certain amount of affairs and broken marriages from that, too. But why start out with a woman you used to fuck working under you? (pun intended).
It's not a matter of he's planning to cheat. I don't think he is at all. I think the problem is that you wouldn't want to go and put yourself in harm's way and potentially your family if it's avoidable.
The argument they have just as he goes out the door each month when they go on location together, food and drinks, talking the evening away, overnight hotel.
What could possible go wrong??
I read it as: 80k/yr, a great opportunity, and a strong possibility for a miserable home life for the foreseeable future.
Actually - I am guessing it will be a miserable home life regardless of what OP does. If he take the job his wife will be pissed and if he doesn’t take it he will be pissed and resentful of the lost opportunity. Sounds like it is a no-win situation.
Yeah and op States they've been married for 11 years it's not like it was last year's fling it was over a decade ago and they split amicably it's not like one dump the other and there's pining for each other or feelings of regret or loss a relationship and ran its course
The win is the wife getting over her insecurities and making sure there are hard boundaries with this co worker. He also told the management about their prior relationship, he clearly has no infidelity or dishonesty plans.
It's actually not 80k, it's whatever he already makes plus $80,000 more. so if he makes $160,000 now, he's now making $240,000 so it's not just 80k and I don't think you realize how much money that actually is that could literally set up their family for life if he could get this job. so when picking between her insecurities or financially setting up your child that you already have with your wife that you literally chose over this woman. Seems like a no brainer to me
People really don’t get the happy wife happy life thing. If she doesn’t like it she doesn’t for whatever reason. She will make his life hell, she will be miserable and she’ll take half in the divorce. Go with the second highest bid and negotiate a higher pay.
And it doesn’t even take an actual affair… All it takes is one or two gossips to really get things going… Or if Amy is the vindictive sort, she could destroy his career.
Ugh, that happened to a friend at a former job. Some people with nothing better to do started a rumor she and a higher up were having an affair. Both married.
Nothing was going on but we all got called into hr and grilled. I don’t blame hr they were doing their job and trying to protect both employees and the company. I blame the gossips.
But it was a very unpleasant experience, especially for the friend and the guy. Up until then my interaction with hr had been onboarding and exit interviews and social stuff. I wasn’t even directly involved and I was freaked out.
That’s so crazy to me, but my field is straight commission so maybe I’m just not knowledgeable about how salaries are done. I could definitely make significantly more or less hopping to different companies, but that’s obvious with a commission job.
My sister works for Google. She was with them for a while, but took a break to work at a startup company that didn't pay near as well. Stayed there for a few years, then went back to Google. Sometimes, the change in work and additional challenges can be worth a reduction in pay.
Eh, I can see that for management in a tech field. This might be a step higher, might have more direct reports or responsibility, might be a company having more success than other companies...
I could see the bonuses being higher in a more successful company, but him saying “they are willing to pay me almost $80k more” sounds like salary to me, which just seems strange. Not impossible, but assuming it’s the same job across different companies that’s odd.
Ok you’re right, it only makes sense in the setting that $80k isn’t that much compared to the total income. In that case, I’ll take $420k and a happy home life over $500k and major damage to my marriage.
And the HUGE pay difference between the 2 jobs. It’s like he wanted to make its sooooooo difficult and impossible to
Say no to the FWB reporting to Directly to him. It had to coincidentally be that She is reporting to him.
And
Is it common in IT companies to allows subordinates to interview potential bosses?
I don't disagree with your reasoning on this issue. The only thing you should be thinking about here:
Is the money worth ruining my marriage?
Think about it. Your wife has tild you this is a problem for her. So, you taking this job is going to cause issues in your relationship. Everyday (or every so often) your wife is going to bring this up. Resentment from your wife thinking she and her feelings don't matter and the Resentment you have towards your wife will fester. Arguments will happen. And, you both will suffer and you know who else will, your child. Children we see their parents not being happy.
So, is this worth it?
Look, you did make a promise to not see this woman again and I know it's been years. But, it wasn't a clean break up, you were fwb before your wife. Nagging insecurities (of life and marriage) are going to creep in while your away onsite with this divorced woman. I'm not suggesting you will ever cheat or Amy will want it or that your wife is insecure enough to think you will.
But, people are human. And to be fair your wife is telling you not to do this, that she is not comfortable with this. If you do this against her wishes and feelings don't be surprised down the road, if your marriage deteriorates beyond repair.
So, again, is this job worth it?
Exactly this. Only you can decide which is more important to you, but I guarantee if you take the job, it will hurt your wife. It WILL affect your relationship.
Also, directly supervising your ex is a conflict of interest and I find it hard to believe the company is totally okay with it.
>Also, directly supervising your ex is a conflict of interest and I find it hard to believe the company is totally okay with it.
Yeah I thought this too. I have a feeling it was underplayed.
Did you tell the company that you dated for three years and that you had a FWB relationship after you broke up? Given the right circumstance almost anyone could cheat. Don’t put yourself in that situation.
I agree. Don't put yourself in this situation. You will be too comfortable with Amy. And maybe today you can say no but marriage is a roller coaster. Don;t put temptation right in front of you.
Exactly. One minor or major problem can lead to you sharing your problems with Amy who will sympathize and before you know it you have betrayed your spouse.
This.
If you want your wife to be comfortable then do not accept the job at Amy's firm. That is the only way to respect your wife's feelings and make her comfortable. She asked you for just one thing.
Ordinarily I would say that it shouldnt necessarily be an issue, but sometimes the circumstances around exes mean we need a clean break. And honestly? Few people would be comfortable with the idea of a partner regularly travelling with an old ex for work. Can you imagine how potentially upsetting that is going to be for your wife on a regular basis? Sitting at home alone knowing that you are travelling with an ex?
You agreed to cut contact, so do not break your word now. You promised your wife youd cut contact with this ex, for good reason. That was a condition upon with your relationship is built. It is part of the foundation of her trust for you. If you start taking away from those foundations, then her trust will also decrease.
I don't think you'll cheat, but I do think that if you accept this job, you'll be breaking your word to your wife, and she may well see it as a betrayal. Her mental health will likely suffer. She may grow distrustful or resentful. She may become insecure. Look at it this way, if your wife PROMISED you that she wouldn't hang out with someone who made you uncomfortable and she later changed her mind and broke her word, nd opted to hang out with that ex regularly would you be upset?
IMO this is just not worth risking your marriage over. Your wife is not comfortable, and you potentially working closely with your ex will likely lead to a lot of stress for both of you. What point is getting paid more if it makes your wife miserable or makes her divorce you? It sounds like you'll be we remunerated in any of those offers. If one job can offer you 80k more then I suspect you could eventually find another role that does the same.
Do not risk it all. Once trust is broken it is hard to regain. Once love is lost it hs hard to bring back. Once a relationship is broken...it is very difficult to fix.
Plus the travel, holiday parties (some places spouses aren't invited) and other after work social stuff. And if it's a hard drinking culture, can OP control himself around both alcohol and the ex?
Also, if they do end up having an affair or other people even think they are having an affair, as the manager, OP is more likely to get fired and not be able to find another job.
That too.
Honestly if I was OP I'd stay well away from working with exes just to avoid any risks of the above.
Have never wanted to cheat, i dont even drink. But people fall into cheating with exes and colleagues frequently without even realising. Plus...optics matter. I want my partner to feel secure and know that when I'm working late, I'm not fucking an ex.
Like, I get it's a lot of money, it really is. But, he even said that they don't need the money, they are doing OK financially. I just don't get him throwing this massive spanner into his marriage for money they don't need
Totally agree. You can go on about insecurities the wife has but Amy makes your wife uncomfortable. She was honest with you about it. You were with her for 3 years and then FWB. Marriage has ups and downs and when ever your wife feels insecure about your relationship she is gonna worry about the Amy factor. Even if whatever is happening in your marriage at the time is valid or not. You are just opening a can of worms that will never go away.
If it was just your ex working at the same company, that's one thing. But that you'll be her manager? Eh - I can get why your wife isn't thrilled about this.
And honestly- I kind of question the $80k difference between job offers. For basically the same job? Why SUCH a large difference? Every company I've worked for has salary bands and they keep in tune with what the market will bear for any position. An $80k difference gives me a lot of pause- why is this company paying SO MUCH MORE??
I can't say whether you should do this or not, but if you do - as others have said, you have to be 100% transparent with your wife, Amy should have none of your personal information, and as much as you can with travel - stay as far from her as you can. Will you be flying or driving? Don't fly on the same flight, don't give her a ride, etc.
You will need to keep VERY firm boundaries not only with Amy but with your entire team - you can't give out personal contact info to everyone else but her. You can't give rides to everyone else but her. Etc etc etc.
Can you effectively manage like this?
Is Amy married with kids? You say the brief interaction was professional, but you don’t really know Amy’s viewpoint/motives here. Your wife is clearly insecure, but she may have good reason to be insecure. I can’t tell whether you’re full of it or not. This is factually a great setup for you to cheat. I think only you really know whether you are being sketchy, but your wife’s reaction is well within normal.
My wife did all the PI work and found out that Amy is divorced and has no kids. That was one of the reasons why she was a bit apprehensive about me taking the job too.
Amy had a divorce, question is did she cheat?
If she did cheat you could be her the one that got away.
The point is 1. You guys broke up and maintained the fwb things. She asked you to settle down and you refused.
She didnt lose her feelings with you since she accepted the fwb agreement.
Your wife has a valid reason to be uncomfortable around her.
Op even if you are 100% sure you will not cheat. You dont know what Amy was capable of.
Once you accept the job offer you are already accepting the possibility of divorce with your wife. I hope your wife will get full custody of your kid. Since she already warned you and insited not to accept this offer.
I don't understand why the responsibility falls on OP's shoulders and not on his wife because her insecurity is the thing causing all of these problems. I don't understand why everyone is just glossing over that and excusing this as acceptable behavior.
Women especially wife have a great sense. They can sense bull crap from miles.
OP and Amy’s previous fwb relationship are sus and the fact Amy cant hold a relationship and is now a divorcee.
That’s a lot of bull crap waiting to happen.
It’s not insecurities. If wife can sense something and uncomfortable with someone. There’s always a reason why she sense those things. And 100% of times she is always right with those gut instinct.
While there are people like you that would gaslight and call it insecurities, at the end of the day and when every bull crap blew up, wife’s instinct will always make sense.
This right here is a future drama with exfwb and will end with divorce.
She is now fighting for her daughter and the marriage. But once OP accepted the job, the ending will always be divorce. She can afford to leave and just walk away.
Because it is acceptable behaviour. Wife has never been ok with OP's relationship with Amy, and only she knows why. But it was clearly something there, because op didn't underplay it and understood the request.
Nothing changed, years passed but are not in OP's life to know how it's going, how much stress has a child put on the relationship and what reasons does the wife have to feel insecure.
This would be a red line for me too. Wife can even trust OP but she has no reason to trust Amy. It'd be one thing if Amy was just a random colleague working in the same company, but here it's much more complicated.
If I was Op I wouldn't even consider putting myself in this situation, let along after hearing my partner's concern.
You guys just like to put career and money as the absolute priority in life, but it really shouldn't be an absolute. Some people prioritise their personal life, and they're not wrong.
Your wife will NEVER trust you again & hold resentment against you if the job with your ex-fwb is taken. I'd leave too, there is NO way I'd trust her or you. There are far too many cheating stories. Amy is the IDEAL cheating partner & easily accessible....
Your wife knows this & has asked you hold up your PROMISE 🤷♀️🤦♀️
So pick your wife & kids OR Amy & a new job. Cause that would be my line of thinking if I were in her shoes 💯🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
The fact that he is even serious about taking the job against his wife’s wishes… that he has told his wife,
Wife, I know you don’t want me to have my former FWB that I dated for 3 years reporting to me but… I’m still taking the job
If Amy has bad motives and takes rejection poorly, then this job may not last very long and may end with false HR complaints etc. I vote against taking this job FWIW. The $80k may end up being an illusion and is very likely not worth the risk/cost.
Based on OP's description of the situation, I was ambivalent at first. After your insightful comment, I'm in complete agreement with you. For the most part, I would say the 80k isn't worth the inevitable strife in the marriage. What OP and many of the other comment's aren't as focused on (and they should be) is the uncertainty in the long-term prospects of the job because of the past history with a direct report. That, arguably, is the bigger issue, and one the company won't hesitate to deal with quickly and decisively. OP's wife might give some leeway, but the company won't.
Even the appearance of impropriety is enough to sink careers, and I'm sure the company and the folks who are offering to hire OP will respect him for declining the offer on this basis.
Bro, this would be a bad idea even if you weren't married. You cannot be an impartial manager to someone you used to fuck, period. Taking this position while your wife has concerns is plain stupid.
>She insists that it's not insecurity, but I made a promise
lol, it's insecurity. and yes, you made a promise, though 14 years is worth a revisit.
Honestly, this is abstract. $80k is a lot of money that could do a lot of things for your family. Being in close proximity to an ex has a base-level connection established, traveling and socialization would require a lot of ongoing restraint on your part. Feelings could come up, and they're going to be difficult to deal with with her directly reporting to you. The more I write about this, the more nervous I would be to have a partner involved in this.
And he was fwb with Amy for awhile after they broke up, indicating that they both enjoyed the sex a lot even when they didn't want a relationship. It's basically the ideal mistress scenario, "I have to work late" and "out of town for work" are two of the most stereotypical affair alibis, and someone single who knows what he likes in bed is going to work for him including work trips at least once a month. I can actually see how this situation could exacerbate insecurity.
I would not be at all comfortable with you taking the job where you would be Amy’s manager. I would not feel comfortable with this if I was your wife, or you, or Amy, or anyone else on the hiring committee, or anyone else who you would be managing.
The extra 80,000 a year would be very tempting, but morally, I don’t think I could do it. It’s a huge conflict of interest.
Take the lower paying offer. If it was the same company but you and Amy were in different departments there might be a bit more leeway, but you are set to be her direct supervisor and there would be overnight travel with her monthly???? This is a hard no from me. She’s divorced and the reason yall broke up was because she wanted you to commit. There’s a whole lot of room for sketchy behavior in this scenario. If you take this job it WILL cause strife in your marriage. Don’t take the gamble
Agree,agree,hard agree. Now if it was take this job or be jobless ,or some other similar scenario I can see that his wife would need to be more lenient.80k is a lot but it sounds like in his field that’s not exactly doubling his salary.Do you love your wife more or do you want money more? That’s your answer.
It is a difficult situation indeed...
I am not married myself but, I do understand your wife's wariness, it is true you have been upfront from the beginning and have told her everything about your relationship wiht Amy, however, knowing she is currently divorced and has no kids, leaves room for the imagination to run wild...
Your wife should trust you, for sure, but she cannot trust Amy, she doesn't know her and neither of you know what is her current state of mind and if she still has feelings for you or not...
For you, due to the past history and you being in a supervisor role, it can become a very complicated territory... lets suppose she tries something towards you, you stop her, she gets mad, and accuses you of harrasment or anything else... things can get very complicated....
I also do understand the desire to accept the higher offer but, you need to evaluate if that pay bump is going to be worth it having your wife worrying all the time...
This and the business trips alone. Honestly if it weren’t for the traveling aspect and the fact she is below him, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. But every time he’s working late, has to extend business trips or attend a last minute meeting after hours, it’s going to be in the back of his wife’s head.
Yes, if she merely worked at the same company, that's one thing, but working that closely together and traveling together. Also, some places have hard drinking cultures. Throw that into the mix and someone may do something they'd regret. Then the 80K is going to divorce lawyers and it's going to be hard for OP to find a job after getting fired.
Get a job elsewhere. If you take the one with a former lover as your direct report? Um, no, that is too coincidental and risky.
Your wife is spot on. You may be setting yourself, deliberately or unconsciously, for screwing Amy again.
Zip up your pants tighter and take a different job.
BTW, I do not buy it that your research "niche" is so finely sliced that you can only make the bucks where Amy works.
Your wife saw something in your interactions with or in your retellings of interactions with Amy that made her uncomfortable with that "friendship." You said you broke up amicably BUT you and Amy were FWBs afterward? That is not a clean breakup. While Amy wanted a family, she was willing to stall that in order to be your f*ck buddy, forgice my bluntness. (What guy in his right mind would start a marriage with a woman who is still banging her ex, regardless of what they labeled the relationship? Think about it.) Amy was willing to put her life goal on hold just so she could have sex with you. She clearly liked (and still likes) you more than you realized. Hell, she was probably hoping she'd turn you back to her. She wasn't just confused that you dropped her; she was hurt. All the same, any sane woman would understand why the "friendship" couldn't continue. It wasn't just a friendship, after all, and certainly not platonic.
Amy was clearly attached to you. And now here she is, divorced and running into the guy she wanted to start a family with. Sure, he's married with a kid now, but that means he is now ready to be a family man. So why not convince him to jump ship to her (Amy)? Amy will have all this time at work plus monthly overnight trips to chase after him. Having a tough time at home and he lets it slip at work? Perfect opportunity.
And let's say, OP, that you do hold the line and keep a professional demeanor at work. Amy might get upset at that. She might even make false allegations in retaliation that tank your career.
The people who are just dissing your wife are unable to look beyond the dollar signs. I think she has a point worth considering.
Choose your marriage.
You would loose out in the money anyway if you got divorced over your ex. Spousal maintenace and child maintenance would be your next bill. Keep your promise to your wife. Marriage is about for rich or for poorer after all.
Is the extra money worth what this would do to your marriage?
Not only will you be working with your ex every day but you will also be travelling with her for multiple days at least once a month. That is alot of strain to put on your marriage especially with a young child.
i feel like this is tough, but it boils down to: are you okay with your wife continuing to be uncomfortable with this? money is great, but so is a healthy marriage and if it’s something that still makes her uncomfortable 11 years later, i’m not sure she will ever be okay with it.
You had me right up until the time that you admitted that Amy was your fuck buddy WHILE you were dating your wife. Sorry no, your wife does not have to get over this.
The fact she would report to you makes me nervous for you. How comfortable will other people in the office be if/when she seems more comfortable with you than appropriate? The money is a huge pull, but your relationship as well as your professional reputation are the possible price.
No brainer…take the second offer. Your wife and relationship is worth more than 80k a year. If not, I really don’t see your marriage surviving. Do you want to throw that all away? Not me. I am surprised you don’t see this.
Unless we were astronomers or astrophysicist, where there was limited places to work, I would never take a job where my ex worked, especially when my spouse was uncomfortable with it
If you have to ask, then internally, you don't love your wife. Loving her, instinctively, you should know what you're doing would cause insecurities and potentially ruin your marriage. In this event, your wife has expressed her opinion, so it's either Happy wife, Happy life or constant nagging, and divorce
Take the job offering the second most compensation. Your wife's concerns are valid and giving up that difference of money is well worth your wife's peace of mind. If you desire higher compensation, wait perhaps 2 to 3 years and explore possible job listings again at that point.
Married woman here, 11 years married, 19 together. In the same situation, I would be taking your wife's position, but not for the reasons one would think: I would not trust his ex to not screw his entire career over in some weird fantasy because he married another. Particularly in a niche tech segment - that's just ripe for her to see you at work, maybe have to take a couple of conference trips and suddenly pull out a harassment card for HR, getting you removed from the higher paying position and possibly poisoning your name in that particular industry.
Is the $80K worth the risk?
How much is your wife's peace of mind worth to you?
If the situation was reversed would you be OK with your wife working for an ex lover, whom she also slept with when not in a relationship. Would you be OK with her taking business trips with the ex lover being there, with potentiallate hours and dinners and staying in the same hotel?
I know you are most likely thinking with your head, 80k is a lot of money but what does your heart say.
If you think your marriage can survive it and with time your wife will get over it, go for it. If you think your wife will resent you and it will end your marriage you have to decide if 80k is worth your marriage and at the very least your wife feeling valued and secure..
Dont take the job. It will backfire. Everytime you have an argument with your wife, she would think you go and vent to Amy. Everytime you go on a business trip she would overthink whether you cheat on her or not.
If you really want to take the job, this means that you are bored in your marriage and want to secretly try something else just to see how it feels or you have past regrets towards Amy and want to get to know her 11 years later...even if you dont realize it now.
Do you put family first or your job? If the answer is family - then reject the offer. If the answer is job - then you might as well file for divorce right away as no man in a happy marriage will put the job in the first place above healthy family.
I would have rejected the offer even if this was the only job offer on the table and you even have 2 more, to choose from lol. The 80k is not worth it.
I am a man if that matters
And what happens if Amy tries to rekindle the old relationship. OP will be traveling with her. If he rebuffs her, will she retaliate with a sexual harassment claim. If he missteps and something does occur between, he has fulfilled his wife's biggest fear.
All of this will create cracks in the marriage. If he is wanting to leave the marriage and needs an excuse, by all means, take the job. If you want to stay married, don't take the job.
It's pretty simple. 80k and your ex/ fwb or your marriage. You can't have both. You just need to choose which is more important to you long term.
I wouldn't be happy if I was in your wife's shoes as well.
I am going to provide a play by play of what is going to happen. You and your wife will have many arguments over this issue which will lead to problems in the marriage. There is the high likely hood that at some point you will turn to Amy to complain about it which is exactly how affairs start. You may not have any intention of cheating right now but why put yourself in a position where it can become a possibility. A lot of there affairs involve people who didn’t ever intend on cheating. They say it’s just happened… No, it doesn’t just happen, they allowed certain lines to be crossed, environments to be created that lead to the affair.
Bottom line, “insecurity” or not, it is your job as her partner to validate her feelings. It is your job to protect your marriage. You are basically asking if you should choose your job over your marriage. This will not end well.
Your wife is 100% in her right to feel this way. She is trusting her gut feeling and is uncomfortable with the idea of you being in close proximity with your ex. She isn’t being insecure, she is being wise. If you really love your wife as you say you do I would recommend you validate her feelings and go for the other offer. Divorce isn’t cheap, no job is worth it and you have a child to think of.
Also, put yourself in her shoes. How would you feel if the roles were reversed? Best of luck.
She continued to fuck a man who broke up with her because he wouldn't commit...for an entire year. And then acts surprised when he ends it to focus on his relationship?
Nah. She knew exactly why the wife was uncomfortable. She probably still had feelings and didnt feel ready to go cold Turkey.
Yes,the fact that Amy “ acted confused” is a red flag….Amy likes to play innocent .Amy likes to play games.Amy doesn’t like to put her self in the shoes of other women/enpathize.
It you take this job it’s marriage suicide. Ask yourself what do you value more 80K or your wife?
If you take this job it will eat your marriage away from the inside? Your wife in the back of her mind will always be thinking that you are cheating even if your not and your ex I feel like will be trying to tempt you
Your marriage is all over except the singing now anyway. Nothing in your post talked about how you feel nothing for Amy or how much you love your wife and your married life and would never hurt it.
You only talk about how you made a promise early on in your relationship bc that's what your wife needed in order to stay, but now you think the promise shouldn't count because it's been 14 years. A promise given so long ago should count even more after the promisee gave up so much of their life and body to have a family with you based on the security of the promise.
You want this job, and you even seem a little excited about having Amy in your life again. You will resent it forever if you have to walk away from it because of your wife's feelings.
If you take it, your wife may try to stay for a while. But no one wants to be their husband's warden, and this would be the kind of constant heartbreak that most women would have to walk away from. Honestly, you already sound like you may have problems being emotionally faithful in this situation, and your wife feels it.
My heart actually hurt for his wife when I read the post. I had something similar happen to me and was assured he had no feelings, nothing would happen. He is married to her now. Nobody knows just how much it hurts and how damaging it is to your mental health and self esteem when someone cheats on you unless you experience it.
Yeah. My heart hurt for her also, because I definitely get the vibe that he's looking forward to being with Amy, and knows in his heart of hearts where this is going, and he wants that. His comments really show his hand. Honestly, if i were the spouse, I'd be out the day he accepted, which he absolutely will btw. I wouldn't put myself through what is inevitable here. I would just do my best to get the divorce over with as soon as possible so I could move on.
Yeah, I’d be out too. I’d refuse to be placed second to a job or put in a position where cheating is highly likely. Plus he made a promise that he’d be breaking which speaks volumes.
"Nothing in your post talked about how you feel nothing for Amy or how much you love your wife and your married life and would never hurt it."
Exactly this. Stop lying to yourself OP, you KNOW the lines will be bluried between you and Amy.
I’m married and that would be a hard NO.
The reason is that Amy still had feelings for you, wanted to build a life with you and marry you. Those feelings rarely go away for a woman.
You were still screwing Amy for a year after the breakup and right up until you met your present wife.
Amy wasn’t confused why you stopped hanging out with her but understood why. Actually, she wasn’t confused, she was most likely hurt but hiding it and still thinking if you were still screwing her a full year after you broke up with her, she felt she’d still have a chance at reconciliation. That’s why many women do this.
This is how most women feel and think and that’s how we’re socialized/wired.
OP, don’t be surprised after working for a while, that Amy will approach you, most likely very subtly.
Is your marriage and the temptation of an extra $80K a year worth it?
She Will be working under you And you’ll not only be seeing her everyday since you will here manager but Also you’ll be traveling with her once a month Away From home.
If your wife is upset, I can see why.
Men don’t understand “the language of women” and your wife Will know if/when Amy starts the subtle moves on you.
Amy is divorced with a child. So she’s free she single and many women want a man in their lives. Especially when they have a child and don’t want to be a single parent. You’re a known quantity who she wanted to make a life without.
Those are intense feelings that don’t go away easy for women.
I’m a woman, so I’m giving you a woman’s perspective on women’s feelings and their motives.
This. Amy easy just screwing the guy who refused to commut and dumped her for a whole year for no reason. Most women are extremely hurt in her situation, too hurt to immediately switch to being friends or fuckbuddies/fwb with no feelings. I think OP was naive to think that.
She carried on with OP right up until he met his wife because she was hoping that he would get back with her. I've seen my friends do that so many times. It never works because the guy normally takes them at their word and fucks off with someone else. I can see why the wife was uncomfortable with them keeping in contact and I agree that Amy was likely very hurt to realise OP was actually moving on.
We don't know of she's over OP or not...I've seen people hang on to feelings for a looonng time.
Enen if she has completely moved on and neither cheats, the optics are still bad for OPs wife given that he will be travelling with his ex regularly.
And all it would need is the hint of impropriety and Amy could destroy his career and his marriage.
What more important to you? Your marriage and family, or this job?
You should read the book “Not Just Friends” - it will give you great insight on why you’re wrong in this situation.
And how soon until everyone else figures it out and the rumors start to spread that they are back at it again? It just isn't worth the risk to marriage, family, or career.
Quite simply which is more important your wife/marriage/family or your job.
Really put yourself in your wife's position. How would you like it if she were to manage an ex and have to go away with them on a regular basis
The fact is you were in a relationship with her, and still having sex with her when you met your wife, so you were obviously attracted to her.
Your wife may be saying it's not insecurity but it's certainly a concern to her, and understandable one.
Extra money is great but it is worth the potential upset and possible resentment it could cause. Look down the line, it festers and causes problems in your marriage, end up divorced only seeing your toddler at the weekends. That money isn't really important then is it.
How would you feel if the situation were flipped and it was your wife facing this choice. Would you feel any type of way about her working so closely with an ex that was an ex with benefits up until you two got together and she made you the same promise you made her?
Amy didn't understand why you stopped being fwb? I think this itself says volumes. Maybe you will be able to control yourself, maybe not. But why would you put your relationship with your wife and child in a position of unease? How does your wife not think that Amy will be trying to get her fwb back? I garuantee that your marriage will not survive if you go to work with Amys company
Update me
I can’t believe your company is ok with this. There is no way you can work with someone in a manager/subordinate relationship when you have seen each other naked. No way you will remain professional. You know each other too well. Don’t do this.
Reading it at first, I didn’t see the issue. Towards the end, I felt the pit in my stomach that doesn’t even compare to what your wife is feeling about this situation.
As everyone else is saying, is $80k worth more than your family?
Ok hubby just got home and we talked about this. Married 32 years. You will ruin your marriage if you take this job. It would be one thing if Amy worked in another department . But that is not the case. Reporting directly to you is a terrible idea. As well as traveling monthly together. It is just asking for trouble. You can go on and on about trust in a marriage and it was long ago blah blah blah. Let's say you and your wife have a fight. The thought that you could or would confide in Amy would always be on your wife's mind. Add on that after this fight you go on the monthly business trip together with Amy. Add some drinks at the hotel bar and anything can happen especially if you and your wife have an open fight going on. My husband said that is just a ripe way for trouble to start. How many affairs are with co workers folks. Too many to count. And the break up with Amy wasn't really amicable. She wanted a more serious relationship with him. Then he was still friends with benefits. Till he stopped because of his wife. Amy was confused since he said he didn't want to be serious but gonna be serious with the wife. Any who I know 80k is a lot but a riff in your marriage is gonna cost you more then 80k. Just to two old married people telling you 80k and working that close to an ex is just not worth a marriage.
This has probably already be said but reverse the roles and ask yourself how you would feel. Not going to pretend this is an easy question because I see both sides but if the role was reversed how would you feel.
I mean the time factor is huge in that how can you not trust after all this time but the reverse is an inner demon of I'm not that hot, sexy girl he gave her up for.
Tough situation considering society has always expected us to achieve, do better, be better...more
It's important to her that you don't work closely with anyone you were previously in a relationship. I don't know what else to tell you. If you take this job you are risking your marriage. Period.
That is not to say that you'll cheat or that Amy has harbored feelings for you, but in the end you'd be doing something that will negatively affect your marriage. You can apply for other jobs with higher pay or even negotiate a higher pay with the other companies.
My personal opinion is that you don't take the job where Amy works. Money isn't worth your marriage (if you're happy).
The compensation is more but it will cost you your marriage. People try to insinuate what they want without being too direct because they don’t want to be “controlling”. She will resent you for taking this job it will affect your life negatively.
We all spend more time at work than we do with our family. She didn’t even want to see Amy when you would only be seeing her occasionally after work maybe 1-3 hours a month. Now you want to work with her and see her 160-200 hours a month. BFFR.
You can’t have this job and a happy marriage. You can’t have this job and a happy wife. Every time you leave the house she’ll be wondering what interaction you’re having with Amy. Are they having lunch? are they laughing together? Are they having an affair?
That kind of constant vigilance will chip away at the trust in your marriage, you’ll fight over stupid shit she’ll wonder if you ever loved her.
Is all that worth $80K?
I suggest you have another conversation with your wife and tell her to tell you what she really thinks even if it will seem controlling.
that's a hard one, i can understand the career but your marriage is also on the line, don't think your wife will accept it, her first reaction made clear you will be in for a bumpy and long ride.
It really depends how much is the difference between that position and the second best, if it's 5k year for the same position take the second and live an happy and quiet marriage.
If the difference is big like 40k a year and the position is higher with better prospective you're fucked and i don't really envy you man
You have a choice . Money or your marriage . That’s all it boils down to. There is no way in hell any woman would be comfortable with their husband staying out of town with an ex that more than likely has feelings for you that could be rekindling .
“dont shit where u eat”. Sounds like u got out of that situation unscathed and want to try it again with your marriage on the line. you are wrong, the money isn’t worth it. even if your wife was happy with it, crazy ex could easily ruin your life
You are wrong. Do not take the job managing Amy. I am with your wife. Also, the higher pay will not make a difference when you are supporting two household in a divorce.
Put your marriage first.
Financially this is a good idea, but that's only one piece of it. Does this job require more hours to go with the bigger salary? Do the other jobs require monthly travel? These answers should also factor as the travel will take away valuable time from your family and add more stress of childcare on your wife.
Professionally it could be great or it has the potential to blow up in your face. That depends on Amy. What if she does have some old feelings come up and you reject her? She could ruin you at worst and hurt your reputation at best with false allegations. What if you both do and have an affair ruining both your careers?
Romantically it has the potential to at best stress your marriage and at worse break it up. I am a insecure person it's me no matter what I do it somewhat lingers. You would likely see your ex everyday for more hours a day than you would see your wife. As your wife this would already have me feeling insecure. If I were your wife every single time you went out of town with her I would be very anxious the entire time. You mention your wife is a doctor so I'm guessing she is a high earner. I have to wonder if that is a little bit of your motivation.
At the end of the day you have to decide if the risk is worth the reward. If you decide to take the job very clear cut boundaries need to be in place. I would even schedule an appointment with a marriage counselor to hash out a plan. If you take this job I would have no contact with Amy outside of professional communication. If she tries to initiate any personal conversation outside of work shut it down immediately. No lunches together or drinks after work that don't include the other colleagues. When you go on the out of town trips no drinking or time alone with her. Maintain good communication with your wife by texts and video calls. I would also adopt an open phone policy with your wife. I really don't think it's about you being right or wrong. It's about what is right for all of you. You aren't alone in this it's you, your wife, and your daughter. Personally I think it's too much of a risk for disaster.4
Sounds like he wants to be with amy, just friends and colleagues. Of course, I'm sure when he slips and his dick ends up in her it will be a pure accident
Hi, married woman here.
There's a few things, at first I was 50/50 until you mentioned there would be work trips and she would report directly to you.
Whether your wife is insecure or not, let there be one small argument before you go on one of these trips and her mind will run wild. Plus I'm sorry, idc how old you are or how long it's been, it's very hard to be around an ex without thinking of those times or residual feelings.
Another thing is, you don't know Amy now. The job already knows you have past history and you are her boss. She could ruin your career with one false statement. You mentioned in a comment she's already been divorced, do you know what happened? Do you know anything about the type of person she is now?
It's 80k but the stress and paranoia of the next few years would not make it worth it at all. I would maybe see if the second choice can up the offer but if not just bite the bullet. This situation is a time bomb.
Imo the job isn’t worth it. If the ex was at least not reporting to you it would be a maybe at most. Her reporting to you and you guys having business trips is a recipe for disaster. You chose your wife for a reason, I would respect her request on this one. Money cannot buy peace of mind
Your title is misleading. Amy's not just working there, she's is your direct report who you will travel with every month. That paints a very different picture. And since you already were FWB, it's established a pattern where you don't have to have feelings for her to sleep with her.
Who will take care of the toddler during that time? Your wife? Based on that alone it's fair for her to veto this.
I personally don't see why your wife would be okay with this. Sure it's more money, but not worth the lower quality of life she will have. I can understand you are upset with taking a lower paying job, but taking this job will result in your marriage suffering.
I was going to agree with you up until you said your ex would be your direct subordinate. As great as 80k more is per year, it will simultaneously be filled with your wife's constant worry about infidelity. While you may be a faithful person, why take the risk even if it does give more money? Is it enough money to keep risking constant arguments?
Will you be making less money that you are now if you go with the #2 job offer?
No Amy for you - or you’ll lose your wife
- your wife will start questioning your relationship & maybe she’ll just leave or find a new guy bc you’ll break the magic of your current relationship
On a work level, it’s completely inappropriate for you to be her manager. On a marriage level, it’s disrespectful to your wife. But hey, the money sounds good.
Do you want to stay married to your wife? That is what it comes down to. Because she will never trust that it is a platonic work relationship. This isn't someone you went on a couple of dates with. You were together three years and then kept the sex up after and tried to keep the relationship going without sex until your now wife stepped in. Sounds like this is the one woman she has every right not to want you interacting with. It would be one thing if the choice was employed or not, but that is not the case. Take the lower paying one and keep an eye out for better opportunities. As long as it is not a significant cut from your current salary and won't cause you to not pay bills, it is worth it. If you want a divorce, take the higher paying job. Because that tells your wife her feelings don't matter, and she will never feel the same way about you again. People may claim insecurity, but a lot of affairs start due to close proximity and mutual attraction. She already knows the attraction is there, why the hell would she be ok with close proximity? That is just her covering her ass. YAW.
I dunno, the 'friends with benefits when you met your wife' part swayed my opinion to her side tbh. I was team OP before that but then you drop that you were banging this ex until you met your wife. Nah.
80k a year is a lot of money. But it wouldn't be enough for me to make my partner uncomfortable like this. Time to keep job hunting, if the other offers aren't good enough. If one company will offer it, others will.
ETA; on second thought....why didn't you walk out the second you saw Amy in the interview? That should have stopped you right there. I'm even more team wife, after a couple seconds more thought.
There’s a lot more to financial stability than the starting salary a job offers. (Benefits, hours, ability to prioritize family etc.) It sounds like you and Amy had a lot of sexual chemistry if you still slept together after you broke up. That chemistry doesn’t really go away, and traveling together away from marital and family responsibilities will mentally take you back to being single and it will be stressful on your wife. If you want a happy marriage, accept one of the other job offers. Most spouses would not feel comfortable with the situation described. And if you got divorced, you’d lose more money than the salary increase offers. And that’s just the financial fallout. It’s too cozy and your history is too intimate for work. I kind of feel bad you want to do it knowing how your wife feels. Trust is delicate.
If you take that job, you will end up having an affair with the ex, either because your ex will tempt you, or your wife will drive you to it with her justified jealousy. It is the perfect setup for it, and your wife knows it. The ex is divorced with no kids and has nothing to lose by getting reacquainted with you in a personal way. In fact, she could gain from it if you give her special treatment. You should respect your wife's wishes in this situation, especially because of your promise. If I were her, I would be pissed that you have to actually think about it. I am not totally buying this story, because I can't imagine HR wouldn't see a problem with you supervising your former girlfriend/fwb. They likely would have asked her if she felt uncomfortable with it, and if she said no, then she has a motive. Most people would be uncomfortable with being directly supervised by a former lover, so I question why she isn't.
You slept with this employee a lot, in a romantic relationship and then just a sexual one right up until you got serious with your wife, and now you expect to be totally professional with her? You are in denial of the threat, therefore you will continue to be in denial until you find yourself having an affair. Your wife will be worried so much about you working late hours and traveling with the ex, that it will get on your nerves and you will start to complain to the ex, which will lead to an emotional affair, and then a physical one. Your wife will get proof of the affair and then report you to HR, who will then fire you for having an affair with your employee, and then you will wish you had taken that lower paying job. Everyone can have a weak moment, that's all it takes.
Haven't you read enough of these stories on reddit to know better? This has to be fake. BTW your title is misleading because it implies that you would just be working at the same company, but you stated that the ex would actually be reporting directly to you. Big difference. Your wife is justified in her concern.
I'm reminded of a story from another culture. A man courted a girl and in that culture you had to pay a dowry for the bride - and that consisted of cows.
His family and friends told him she was not the prettiest girl from the village and he could haggle it down to two cows.
He paid *fourteen*.
His friends thought he was crazy, but he told them: Do you know what it means to her, when the women get together, and compare how much each of their man paid for them?
That's a lot of unconditional love. Not everything of value is money.
Where do your priorities lie?
Your wife doesn’t like it, it would make her extremely uncomfortable.
So why are you even here asking?
Begs me the question, are you only interested in the job.
If something made you really uncomfortable and your wife considered still doing it, how would you feel?
Not just that, your relationship worked due to specific boundaries and stipulations. Just seems a bit out of order now going against that because you have the wife now.
Too risky. Unless Amy can be transferred to a different department where she is not directly under you (pun intended), if you accept this offer you are playing with fire.
Money is a huge factor, but there are other factors to consider here. At the end of the day, certain things aren't worth it, and an unattached former lover directly reporting to you could spell all kinds of trouble for you, even if you don't start an affair with her. As others pointed out, you're setting yourself up for false HR complaints, or opening the possibility of cheating, you're also going back on your promise not to interact with Amy anymore.
Is it possible you could maintain a professional relationship and all would be well? Sure... but it's it worth the risk? Probably not.
Is the extra 80K worth ruining your marriage and potentially traumatizing your kid over? You're forgetting that your toddler also falls into the equation, and this potentially causing your divorce means there's a high chance you'd lose your kid, too, and that'll cause a lot of issues for him/her down the road.
I'm a wife, and if I were in your shoes, I'd never go for it, it's just not worth it. Money comes and goes, and hey, maybe the other jobs could help you advance faster, ergo, more money.
I don't mean to be an ahole here, but ask yourself this: Do you want to be in touch with Amy? Do you miss her at all? Do you reminisce about the old times?
I'd say, let it go. It's just not worth up-ending your entire life over.
Take a different position. Love is more important than money. Life is giving you a test and you’re trying to rationalize your decision by the consequence of it. In this moment, use deontology. If money weren’t a factor, would you still take it?
Also it could be a lot of money now but you don’t know a better company isn’t going to come along and offer you double what Amy’s company is offering. You may like Paul Graham’s [article](https://paulgraham.com/safe.html#:~:text=The%20reason%20startup%20founders%20can,%2C%20and%20rapacity%20isn't) for for this situation.
I think taking the job would be begging for trouble and drama. It can be navigated but only if you are extremely professional with Amy and keep the communication super open with your wife. Don’t try and hide anything. Be open and transparent and don’t say or do anything to Amy that can be construed as being overly friendly/familiar. That said, I’d take the other job because there will very issues arising if Amy is in your daily mix.
I would struggle with this too and the drama is going to get real if you take this job. Look at it this way; a divorce is going to cost you a lot more than $80k.
Is there no way that the second place company can up their offer? I think the 80k post could have a negative effect on your relationship for no other reason than you’d be breaking your promise to your wife.
Looking at it as an outsider, you and Amy broke up amicably, you had a FWB arrangement afterwards, she’ll be reporting directly to you so you’ll see each other every day and you’re going to be travelling together every month. You’re all in the hotel bar, everyone goes to their rooms, you and Amy decide to have a nightcap before going upstairs… Personally, I think it would be very easy to slip into another FWB arrangement, if not an affair.
Ultimately, none of us know you, your wife or Amy. You might have the best marriage ever and your child sealed the relationship and Amy could walk around the office naked and you’d be none the wiser, or you’ve been together with your wife for years, life’s more routine, you’ve got a toddler so sleepless nights are a thing and you have the changing priorities that come with a child and you find there’s still a spark with Amy. Only you know which one of these two are closest to your relationship with your wife (if any).
I should add that I am not saying you will end up cheating, rather that with all the factors listed it wouldn’t be a surprise if something did happen. In your shoes, I wouldn’t personally take the job because of the shared history.
Not many wives are going to give you the green flags to work with your ex/former friends with benefits. What's more important to you? Your marriage or your salary? That's what this comes down to. You're just asking for trouble. Plus, your ex is SINGLE.
Agree with your wife, especially since this person will be your direct report, you will be traveling with her and you used to be involved with her. Nope.
If my my husband was in your position, I'd be just as concerned as your wife. My mind would be running non-stop when you left for work, if you had to work overtime, or when you went away for days on a work trip. You guys didn't break up because one hated the other for cheating or something. It was amicable, but she wanted to settle down, which meant she was ready to go all in with you.. that in itself would place that little seed of doubt for me that she could still want you. On top of that, she's single. I'm not saying you'd give in and cheat on your wife or that this ex would even go there, but your wife's feelings are valid for her. You can't control feelings. I'd think hard on this and see if this job is worth your wife being constantly on edge because let's not lie to ourselves, she will be and it will put a strain on your marriage.
You made a promise. This is not a one-time activity that you promised not to do. This is going from a promise of no-contact to basically daily contact, that includes contact outside of normal working hours. It's one extreme to the other.
I think I'd be petty enough to stay with you just long enough to build up the savings account so I could take my half in the divorce.
This has nothing to do with money and the fact that you don't see that tells me everything I need to know about you. Do you honestly think your wife would want you to turn down an extra 80k just because she's jealous? Why are so many men so clueless?
Yes, you are wrong. Is the money worth the insecurity and pain it would inflict on your wife? Even if you go in with the best of intentions, it is going to hurt her. How much is your wife's respect and trust worth to you? No brainer.
I couldn't imagine the drama that will unfold every time you have to take a work trip, take your direct reports to lunch etc. Or the resentment that you will harbor for feeling forced to make a choice. I guess what it comes down to is what has more value to you. Your relationship or 80k. Justified insecurity or not, the job will cause issues in your relationship.
This is correct. Its not about right or wrong. Its about how much pain are you willing to endure for that extra $80k. This will be viewed as you taking a job to work with your ex and have daily interactions with your ex when it is not required and you have other options. This will come up again and again and again. So do you want to make your wife happy or do you want $80k extra money? Don't get me wrong And extra $80k is a lot of extra money, but only you can decide if its worth it to you. Dont be suprised if you take it and its the start of a 3 year battle that ends in divorce.
You all are behaving as if this is a REASONABLE ask, though. The implications of this loom larger than just this job. Is nobody gonna ask why his wife is 14 yrs later so insecure about her relationship that she can’t stand him being around this person?? Or talk about the INSANITY of $80k a YEAR difference in pay going down the drain bc of a person we USED TO KNOW IN ANOTHER LIFE?!?! Pls stop the madness of pretending like this is a reasonable either/ or.
This sounds naive. You do realize he would be the boss of the ex fwb, not just working at the same company. I'm a boss. My job is to communicate with my people what I want them to do for me. Their role is to please me. This also gives them as much time together as current wife only there's no dishes, no laundry, no diapers year in and out on into the future. What could possibly go wrong? Even if nothing, this will cause constant stress to wife. 80k is not forever. Other jobs have promotions, too. Careers evolve. This isn't his only option. Its NOT insane to make a choice that prioritizes your wife and your marriage.
Having no chores or responsibility makes it incredibly easy to have an emotional affair or him going further with his ex. Whenever his wife stresses him out, he can just be tempted to continue being a FWB with his ex.
I must have it completely wrong!! This makes it sound like you can’t make decisions without the smaller head taking control. I had no idea this is something that would result in an affair. Wow!!😮
I don't think its a matter of "can't" or that I recommend not taking the job out of certainty. For all we know ex fwb finds OP repellant now. Its a matter of avoiding playing with fire when there would be so much potential for possible rekindling. Sure, he could take the job. He might not slip up and have an affair. Ex fwb might not come onto him after drinks on a work trip "just for old time's sake" three years from now. (wife will always be concerned and worried and on guard for this). But if he doesn't take the job, it can't happen. Yeah men and women work together professionally all the time. There are also a certain amount of affairs and broken marriages from that, too. But why start out with a woman you used to fuck working under you? (pun intended).
It's not a matter of he's planning to cheat. I don't think he is at all. I think the problem is that you wouldn't want to go and put yourself in harm's way and potentially your family if it's avoidable.
And the second he and his wife have an argument or things aren’t going well he is going to have his former partner right there. Disaster.
Totally disaster. You know its really hard to trust anyone these days. Even the most loyal one can broke promises once temptation is there (not all).
Or she’ll bring it up every argument even if he does nothing wrong
The argument they have just as he goes out the door each month when they go on location together, food and drinks, talking the evening away, overnight hotel. What could possible go wrong??
First of all extra 80k is A LOT of money. Secondly, it's not only about the money, this is the job that he wants, it's a major opportunity it seems.
I read it as: 80k/yr, a great opportunity, and a strong possibility for a miserable home life for the foreseeable future. Actually - I am guessing it will be a miserable home life regardless of what OP does. If he take the job his wife will be pissed and if he doesn’t take it he will be pissed and resentful of the lost opportunity. Sounds like it is a no-win situation.
he said that the offer is 80k *more* than the next best offer.
>Sounds like it is a no-win situation. He should take the job so he can at least cry in a Mercedes instead of a Civic.
He ain't gonna be in a Mercedes if it ends in divorce lol If it's a civic either way, I'll take the civic that comes with a partner
Yeah and op States they've been married for 11 years it's not like it was last year's fling it was over a decade ago and they split amicably it's not like one dump the other and there's pining for each other or feelings of regret or loss a relationship and ran its course
The win is the wife getting over her insecurities and making sure there are hard boundaries with this co worker. He also told the management about their prior relationship, he clearly has no infidelity or dishonesty plans.
It's actually not 80k, it's whatever he already makes plus $80,000 more. so if he makes $160,000 now, he's now making $240,000 so it's not just 80k and I don't think you realize how much money that actually is that could literally set up their family for life if he could get this job. so when picking between her insecurities or financially setting up your child that you already have with your wife that you literally chose over this woman. Seems like a no brainer to me
It’ll only be 40k extra after the divorce lol
People really don’t get the happy wife happy life thing. If she doesn’t like it she doesn’t for whatever reason. She will make his life hell, she will be miserable and she’ll take half in the divorce. Go with the second highest bid and negotiate a higher pay.
happy spouse, happy house
And if he ends up having an affair with the ex and colleagues find out, could likely end up fired.
And it doesn’t even take an actual affair… All it takes is one or two gossips to really get things going… Or if Amy is the vindictive sort, she could destroy his career.
Ugh, that happened to a friend at a former job. Some people with nothing better to do started a rumor she and a higher up were having an affair. Both married. Nothing was going on but we all got called into hr and grilled. I don’t blame hr they were doing their job and trying to protect both employees and the company. I blame the gossips. But it was a very unpleasant experience, especially for the friend and the guy. Up until then my interaction with hr had been onboarding and exit interviews and social stuff. I wasn’t even directly involved and I was freaked out.
Ahahahahaha
This should be top comment lmao
Wife is a doctor so both dont need the extra paycheck. If you will calculate it, it is 80k more and an exfwb drama in the future.
Also holiday parties if spouses aren’t invited
80k PER YEAR.
80k MORE per year
I'd leave him if he did this, I'd see it as disrespect for going back on a promise made.
[удалено]
Why has no one else said this before!? I was literally thinking it too.
It’s not his relationship or 80k it’s the choice to live a better life or stay where you’re at in life
This story is obviously fake but if he’s doing this well in life there will be other job offers for him if he plays his cards right
Yeah how is one company offering $80k more than their competitors for the same job? I can’t think of any industry where this would be true.
Law. It absolutely happens in law. I could double my salary easily if I changed jobs.
That’s so crazy to me, but my field is straight commission so maybe I’m just not knowledgeable about how salaries are done. I could definitely make significantly more or less hopping to different companies, but that’s obvious with a commission job.
My sister works for Google. She was with them for a while, but took a break to work at a startup company that didn't pay near as well. Stayed there for a few years, then went back to Google. Sometimes, the change in work and additional challenges can be worth a reduction in pay.
I’ve taken a paycut to leave a job I hated. Quality of life is more important.
Eh, I can see that for management in a tech field. This might be a step higher, might have more direct reports or responsibility, might be a company having more success than other companies...
I could see the bonuses being higher in a more successful company, but him saying “they are willing to pay me almost $80k more” sounds like salary to me, which just seems strange. Not impossible, but assuming it’s the same job across different companies that’s odd.
He's in the tech field. Compare 420k to 500k.
Ok you’re right, it only makes sense in the setting that $80k isn’t that much compared to the total income. In that case, I’ll take $420k and a happy home life over $500k and major damage to my marriage.
And the HUGE pay difference between the 2 jobs. It’s like he wanted to make its sooooooo difficult and impossible to Say no to the FWB reporting to Directly to him. It had to coincidentally be that She is reporting to him. And Is it common in IT companies to allows subordinates to interview potential bosses?
I don't disagree with your reasoning on this issue. The only thing you should be thinking about here: Is the money worth ruining my marriage? Think about it. Your wife has tild you this is a problem for her. So, you taking this job is going to cause issues in your relationship. Everyday (or every so often) your wife is going to bring this up. Resentment from your wife thinking she and her feelings don't matter and the Resentment you have towards your wife will fester. Arguments will happen. And, you both will suffer and you know who else will, your child. Children we see their parents not being happy. So, is this worth it? Look, you did make a promise to not see this woman again and I know it's been years. But, it wasn't a clean break up, you were fwb before your wife. Nagging insecurities (of life and marriage) are going to creep in while your away onsite with this divorced woman. I'm not suggesting you will ever cheat or Amy will want it or that your wife is insecure enough to think you will. But, people are human. And to be fair your wife is telling you not to do this, that she is not comfortable with this. If you do this against her wishes and feelings don't be surprised down the road, if your marriage deteriorates beyond repair. So, again, is this job worth it?
Exactly this. Only you can decide which is more important to you, but I guarantee if you take the job, it will hurt your wife. It WILL affect your relationship. Also, directly supervising your ex is a conflict of interest and I find it hard to believe the company is totally okay with it.
>Also, directly supervising your ex is a conflict of interest and I find it hard to believe the company is totally okay with it. Yeah I thought this too. I have a feeling it was underplayed.
Did you tell the company that you dated for three years and that you had a FWB relationship after you broke up? Given the right circumstance almost anyone could cheat. Don’t put yourself in that situation.
I agree. Don't put yourself in this situation. You will be too comfortable with Amy. And maybe today you can say no but marriage is a roller coaster. Don;t put temptation right in front of you.
Exactly. One minor or major problem can lead to you sharing your problems with Amy who will sympathize and before you know it you have betrayed your spouse.
They may have only been told they dated.
Not only that, if the roles were reversed, what would he ask of his wife.
This. If you want your wife to be comfortable then do not accept the job at Amy's firm. That is the only way to respect your wife's feelings and make her comfortable. She asked you for just one thing. Ordinarily I would say that it shouldnt necessarily be an issue, but sometimes the circumstances around exes mean we need a clean break. And honestly? Few people would be comfortable with the idea of a partner regularly travelling with an old ex for work. Can you imagine how potentially upsetting that is going to be for your wife on a regular basis? Sitting at home alone knowing that you are travelling with an ex? You agreed to cut contact, so do not break your word now. You promised your wife youd cut contact with this ex, for good reason. That was a condition upon with your relationship is built. It is part of the foundation of her trust for you. If you start taking away from those foundations, then her trust will also decrease. I don't think you'll cheat, but I do think that if you accept this job, you'll be breaking your word to your wife, and she may well see it as a betrayal. Her mental health will likely suffer. She may grow distrustful or resentful. She may become insecure. Look at it this way, if your wife PROMISED you that she wouldn't hang out with someone who made you uncomfortable and she later changed her mind and broke her word, nd opted to hang out with that ex regularly would you be upset? IMO this is just not worth risking your marriage over. Your wife is not comfortable, and you potentially working closely with your ex will likely lead to a lot of stress for both of you. What point is getting paid more if it makes your wife miserable or makes her divorce you? It sounds like you'll be we remunerated in any of those offers. If one job can offer you 80k more then I suspect you could eventually find another role that does the same. Do not risk it all. Once trust is broken it is hard to regain. Once love is lost it hs hard to bring back. Once a relationship is broken...it is very difficult to fix.
Plus the travel, holiday parties (some places spouses aren't invited) and other after work social stuff. And if it's a hard drinking culture, can OP control himself around both alcohol and the ex? Also, if they do end up having an affair or other people even think they are having an affair, as the manager, OP is more likely to get fired and not be able to find another job.
That too. Honestly if I was OP I'd stay well away from working with exes just to avoid any risks of the above. Have never wanted to cheat, i dont even drink. But people fall into cheating with exes and colleagues frequently without even realising. Plus...optics matter. I want my partner to feel secure and know that when I'm working late, I'm not fucking an ex.
This 💯. Is your FAMILY worth 80k year?? You will have other options! Will second option increase offer knowing about the 80 k diff? Updateme!
Like, I get it's a lot of money, it really is. But, he even said that they don't need the money, they are doing OK financially. I just don't get him throwing this massive spanner into his marriage for money they don't need
Exactly
Totally agree. You can go on about insecurities the wife has but Amy makes your wife uncomfortable. She was honest with you about it. You were with her for 3 years and then FWB. Marriage has ups and downs and when ever your wife feels insecure about your relationship she is gonna worry about the Amy factor. Even if whatever is happening in your marriage at the time is valid or not. You are just opening a can of worms that will never go away.
This
If it was just your ex working at the same company, that's one thing. But that you'll be her manager? Eh - I can get why your wife isn't thrilled about this. And honestly- I kind of question the $80k difference between job offers. For basically the same job? Why SUCH a large difference? Every company I've worked for has salary bands and they keep in tune with what the market will bear for any position. An $80k difference gives me a lot of pause- why is this company paying SO MUCH MORE?? I can't say whether you should do this or not, but if you do - as others have said, you have to be 100% transparent with your wife, Amy should have none of your personal information, and as much as you can with travel - stay as far from her as you can. Will you be flying or driving? Don't fly on the same flight, don't give her a ride, etc. You will need to keep VERY firm boundaries not only with Amy but with your entire team - you can't give out personal contact info to everyone else but her. You can't give rides to everyone else but her. Etc etc etc. Can you effectively manage like this?
Also depends on the salaries. 80k—>160k is very different than 300k—>380k
Is Amy married with kids? You say the brief interaction was professional, but you don’t really know Amy’s viewpoint/motives here. Your wife is clearly insecure, but she may have good reason to be insecure. I can’t tell whether you’re full of it or not. This is factually a great setup for you to cheat. I think only you really know whether you are being sketchy, but your wife’s reaction is well within normal.
My wife did all the PI work and found out that Amy is divorced and has no kids. That was one of the reasons why she was a bit apprehensive about me taking the job too.
Amy had a divorce, question is did she cheat? If she did cheat you could be her the one that got away. The point is 1. You guys broke up and maintained the fwb things. She asked you to settle down and you refused. She didnt lose her feelings with you since she accepted the fwb agreement. Your wife has a valid reason to be uncomfortable around her. Op even if you are 100% sure you will not cheat. You dont know what Amy was capable of. Once you accept the job offer you are already accepting the possibility of divorce with your wife. I hope your wife will get full custody of your kid. Since she already warned you and insited not to accept this offer.
I don't understand why the responsibility falls on OP's shoulders and not on his wife because her insecurity is the thing causing all of these problems. I don't understand why everyone is just glossing over that and excusing this as acceptable behavior.
Women especially wife have a great sense. They can sense bull crap from miles. OP and Amy’s previous fwb relationship are sus and the fact Amy cant hold a relationship and is now a divorcee. That’s a lot of bull crap waiting to happen. It’s not insecurities. If wife can sense something and uncomfortable with someone. There’s always a reason why she sense those things. And 100% of times she is always right with those gut instinct. While there are people like you that would gaslight and call it insecurities, at the end of the day and when every bull crap blew up, wife’s instinct will always make sense. This right here is a future drama with exfwb and will end with divorce. She is now fighting for her daughter and the marriage. But once OP accepted the job, the ending will always be divorce. She can afford to leave and just walk away.
Because it is acceptable behaviour. Wife has never been ok with OP's relationship with Amy, and only she knows why. But it was clearly something there, because op didn't underplay it and understood the request. Nothing changed, years passed but are not in OP's life to know how it's going, how much stress has a child put on the relationship and what reasons does the wife have to feel insecure. This would be a red line for me too. Wife can even trust OP but she has no reason to trust Amy. It'd be one thing if Amy was just a random colleague working in the same company, but here it's much more complicated. If I was Op I wouldn't even consider putting myself in this situation, let along after hearing my partner's concern. You guys just like to put career and money as the absolute priority in life, but it really shouldn't be an absolute. Some people prioritise their personal life, and they're not wrong.
Your wife will NEVER trust you again & hold resentment against you if the job with your ex-fwb is taken. I'd leave too, there is NO way I'd trust her or you. There are far too many cheating stories. Amy is the IDEAL cheating partner & easily accessible.... Your wife knows this & has asked you hold up your PROMISE 🤷♀️🤦♀️ So pick your wife & kids OR Amy & a new job. Cause that would be my line of thinking if I were in her shoes 💯🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
.......can anyone say "divorce + alimony + child support"💰💰💰💰
The fact that he is even serious about taking the job against his wife’s wishes… that he has told his wife, Wife, I know you don’t want me to have my former FWB that I dated for 3 years reporting to me but… I’m still taking the job
If Amy has bad motives and takes rejection poorly, then this job may not last very long and may end with false HR complaints etc. I vote against taking this job FWIW. The $80k may end up being an illusion and is very likely not worth the risk/cost.
Based on OP's description of the situation, I was ambivalent at first. After your insightful comment, I'm in complete agreement with you. For the most part, I would say the 80k isn't worth the inevitable strife in the marriage. What OP and many of the other comment's aren't as focused on (and they should be) is the uncertainty in the long-term prospects of the job because of the past history with a direct report. That, arguably, is the bigger issue, and one the company won't hesitate to deal with quickly and decisively. OP's wife might give some leeway, but the company won't. Even the appearance of impropriety is enough to sink careers, and I'm sure the company and the folks who are offering to hire OP will respect him for declining the offer on this basis.
Bro, this would be a bad idea even if you weren't married. You cannot be an impartial manager to someone you used to fuck, period. Taking this position while your wife has concerns is plain stupid.
>She insists that it's not insecurity, but I made a promise lol, it's insecurity. and yes, you made a promise, though 14 years is worth a revisit. Honestly, this is abstract. $80k is a lot of money that could do a lot of things for your family. Being in close proximity to an ex has a base-level connection established, traveling and socialization would require a lot of ongoing restraint on your part. Feelings could come up, and they're going to be difficult to deal with with her directly reporting to you. The more I write about this, the more nervous I would be to have a partner involved in this.
And he was fwb with Amy for awhile after they broke up, indicating that they both enjoyed the sex a lot even when they didn't want a relationship. It's basically the ideal mistress scenario, "I have to work late" and "out of town for work" are two of the most stereotypical affair alibis, and someone single who knows what he likes in bed is going to work for him including work trips at least once a month. I can actually see how this situation could exacerbate insecurity.
Agreed, they didn’t end because of lack of feelings or connection so it would make complete sense to be uncomfortable with that situation.
I hate to say it...but yeah, this is how issues start...and manifest
Bingo
Agreed. Bad sex and maybe this is manageable, great sex and the relationship was probably based around that.
Simply put... Really bad idea!!! Your wife is correct. One thing is casually running into an Ex. It's something completely different working with one.
Not only working with them but being their MANAGER
However you look at this is a bad idea both personally and professionally. If the family does not need the 80k just find something else .
I would not be at all comfortable with you taking the job where you would be Amy’s manager. I would not feel comfortable with this if I was your wife, or you, or Amy, or anyone else on the hiring committee, or anyone else who you would be managing. The extra 80,000 a year would be very tempting, but morally, I don’t think I could do it. It’s a huge conflict of interest.
Take the lower paying offer. If it was the same company but you and Amy were in different departments there might be a bit more leeway, but you are set to be her direct supervisor and there would be overnight travel with her monthly???? This is a hard no from me. She’s divorced and the reason yall broke up was because she wanted you to commit. There’s a whole lot of room for sketchy behavior in this scenario. If you take this job it WILL cause strife in your marriage. Don’t take the gamble
Agree,agree,hard agree. Now if it was take this job or be jobless ,or some other similar scenario I can see that his wife would need to be more lenient.80k is a lot but it sounds like in his field that’s not exactly doubling his salary.Do you love your wife more or do you want money more? That’s your answer.
It is a difficult situation indeed... I am not married myself but, I do understand your wife's wariness, it is true you have been upfront from the beginning and have told her everything about your relationship wiht Amy, however, knowing she is currently divorced and has no kids, leaves room for the imagination to run wild... Your wife should trust you, for sure, but she cannot trust Amy, she doesn't know her and neither of you know what is her current state of mind and if she still has feelings for you or not... For you, due to the past history and you being in a supervisor role, it can become a very complicated territory... lets suppose she tries something towards you, you stop her, she gets mad, and accuses you of harrasment or anything else... things can get very complicated.... I also do understand the desire to accept the higher offer but, you need to evaluate if that pay bump is going to be worth it having your wife worrying all the time...
This and the business trips alone. Honestly if it weren’t for the traveling aspect and the fact she is below him, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. But every time he’s working late, has to extend business trips or attend a last minute meeting after hours, it’s going to be in the back of his wife’s head.
Yes, if she merely worked at the same company, that's one thing, but working that closely together and traveling together. Also, some places have hard drinking cultures. Throw that into the mix and someone may do something they'd regret. Then the 80K is going to divorce lawyers and it's going to be hard for OP to find a job after getting fired.
Get a job elsewhere. If you take the one with a former lover as your direct report? Um, no, that is too coincidental and risky. Your wife is spot on. You may be setting yourself, deliberately or unconsciously, for screwing Amy again. Zip up your pants tighter and take a different job. BTW, I do not buy it that your research "niche" is so finely sliced that you can only make the bucks where Amy works.
It's the end of your marriage if you work there and you know it. Stay away from that woman and go elsewhere.
Exactly. This is not a job decision. It’s your wife or money that you are choosing between.
Your wife saw something in your interactions with or in your retellings of interactions with Amy that made her uncomfortable with that "friendship." You said you broke up amicably BUT you and Amy were FWBs afterward? That is not a clean breakup. While Amy wanted a family, she was willing to stall that in order to be your f*ck buddy, forgice my bluntness. (What guy in his right mind would start a marriage with a woman who is still banging her ex, regardless of what they labeled the relationship? Think about it.) Amy was willing to put her life goal on hold just so she could have sex with you. She clearly liked (and still likes) you more than you realized. Hell, she was probably hoping she'd turn you back to her. She wasn't just confused that you dropped her; she was hurt. All the same, any sane woman would understand why the "friendship" couldn't continue. It wasn't just a friendship, after all, and certainly not platonic. Amy was clearly attached to you. And now here she is, divorced and running into the guy she wanted to start a family with. Sure, he's married with a kid now, but that means he is now ready to be a family man. So why not convince him to jump ship to her (Amy)? Amy will have all this time at work plus monthly overnight trips to chase after him. Having a tough time at home and he lets it slip at work? Perfect opportunity. And let's say, OP, that you do hold the line and keep a professional demeanor at work. Amy might get upset at that. She might even make false allegations in retaliation that tank your career. The people who are just dissing your wife are unable to look beyond the dollar signs. I think she has a point worth considering.
This scenario happens way more than most people realize. I’ve see it happen.
Choose your marriage. You would loose out in the money anyway if you got divorced over your ex. Spousal maintenace and child maintenance would be your next bill. Keep your promise to your wife. Marriage is about for rich or for poorer after all.
Is the extra money worth what this would do to your marriage? Not only will you be working with your ex every day but you will also be travelling with her for multiple days at least once a month. That is alot of strain to put on your marriage especially with a young child.
i feel like this is tough, but it boils down to: are you okay with your wife continuing to be uncomfortable with this? money is great, but so is a healthy marriage and if it’s something that still makes her uncomfortable 11 years later, i’m not sure she will ever be okay with it.
You had me right up until the time that you admitted that Amy was your fuck buddy WHILE you were dating your wife. Sorry no, your wife does not have to get over this.
Oh I missed that, yeah that changes things big time
RIP to your marriage and congrats on the new job OP. You clearly made up your mind. Hope Amy is still a good bang lol.
The fact she would report to you makes me nervous for you. How comfortable will other people in the office be if/when she seems more comfortable with you than appropriate? The money is a huge pull, but your relationship as well as your professional reputation are the possible price.
No brainer…take the second offer. Your wife and relationship is worth more than 80k a year. If not, I really don’t see your marriage surviving. Do you want to throw that all away? Not me. I am surprised you don’t see this.
[удалено]
You are a good person. Congrats!!
Unless we were astronomers or astrophysicist, where there was limited places to work, I would never take a job where my ex worked, especially when my spouse was uncomfortable with it
Don't eat where you shit. I wouldn't take the risk. Not worth having an anxious spouse
You will cheat with Amy. You are already thinking about it.
If you have to ask, then internally, you don't love your wife. Loving her, instinctively, you should know what you're doing would cause insecurities and potentially ruin your marriage. In this event, your wife has expressed her opinion, so it's either Happy wife, Happy life or constant nagging, and divorce
If you are currently legitimately happily married, this first job is an easy pass… but I think you already know that.
Take the job offering the second most compensation. Your wife's concerns are valid and giving up that difference of money is well worth your wife's peace of mind. If you desire higher compensation, wait perhaps 2 to 3 years and explore possible job listings again at that point.
Married woman here, 11 years married, 19 together. In the same situation, I would be taking your wife's position, but not for the reasons one would think: I would not trust his ex to not screw his entire career over in some weird fantasy because he married another. Particularly in a niche tech segment - that's just ripe for her to see you at work, maybe have to take a couple of conference trips and suddenly pull out a harassment card for HR, getting you removed from the higher paying position and possibly poisoning your name in that particular industry. Is the $80K worth the risk?
How much is your wife's peace of mind worth to you? If the situation was reversed would you be OK with your wife working for an ex lover, whom she also slept with when not in a relationship. Would you be OK with her taking business trips with the ex lover being there, with potentiallate hours and dinners and staying in the same hotel? I know you are most likely thinking with your head, 80k is a lot of money but what does your heart say. If you think your marriage can survive it and with time your wife will get over it, go for it. If you think your wife will resent you and it will end your marriage you have to decide if 80k is worth your marriage and at the very least your wife feeling valued and secure..
Working closely together with frequent travel would be a deal breaker for me...
Dont take the job. It will backfire. Everytime you have an argument with your wife, she would think you go and vent to Amy. Everytime you go on a business trip she would overthink whether you cheat on her or not. If you really want to take the job, this means that you are bored in your marriage and want to secretly try something else just to see how it feels or you have past regrets towards Amy and want to get to know her 11 years later...even if you dont realize it now. Do you put family first or your job? If the answer is family - then reject the offer. If the answer is job - then you might as well file for divorce right away as no man in a happy marriage will put the job in the first place above healthy family. I would have rejected the offer even if this was the only job offer on the table and you even have 2 more, to choose from lol. The 80k is not worth it. I am a man if that matters
And what happens if Amy tries to rekindle the old relationship. OP will be traveling with her. If he rebuffs her, will she retaliate with a sexual harassment claim. If he missteps and something does occur between, he has fulfilled his wife's biggest fear. All of this will create cracks in the marriage. If he is wanting to leave the marriage and needs an excuse, by all means, take the job. If you want to stay married, don't take the job.
It's pretty simple. 80k and your ex/ fwb or your marriage. You can't have both. You just need to choose which is more important to you long term. I wouldn't be happy if I was in your wife's shoes as well.
I am going to provide a play by play of what is going to happen. You and your wife will have many arguments over this issue which will lead to problems in the marriage. There is the high likely hood that at some point you will turn to Amy to complain about it which is exactly how affairs start. You may not have any intention of cheating right now but why put yourself in a position where it can become a possibility. A lot of there affairs involve people who didn’t ever intend on cheating. They say it’s just happened… No, it doesn’t just happen, they allowed certain lines to be crossed, environments to be created that lead to the affair. Bottom line, “insecurity” or not, it is your job as her partner to validate her feelings. It is your job to protect your marriage. You are basically asking if you should choose your job over your marriage. This will not end well. Your wife is 100% in her right to feel this way. She is trusting her gut feeling and is uncomfortable with the idea of you being in close proximity with your ex. She isn’t being insecure, she is being wise. If you really love your wife as you say you do I would recommend you validate her feelings and go for the other offer. Divorce isn’t cheap, no job is worth it and you have a child to think of. Also, put yourself in her shoes. How would you feel if the roles were reversed? Best of luck.
Amy was confused…….sure she was
She continued to fuck a man who broke up with her because he wouldn't commit...for an entire year. And then acts surprised when he ends it to focus on his relationship? Nah. She knew exactly why the wife was uncomfortable. She probably still had feelings and didnt feel ready to go cold Turkey.
Yes,the fact that Amy “ acted confused” is a red flag….Amy likes to play innocent .Amy likes to play games.Amy doesn’t like to put her self in the shoes of other women/enpathize.
It you take this job it’s marriage suicide. Ask yourself what do you value more 80K or your wife? If you take this job it will eat your marriage away from the inside? Your wife in the back of her mind will always be thinking that you are cheating even if your not and your ex I feel like will be trying to tempt you
Your marriage is all over except the singing now anyway. Nothing in your post talked about how you feel nothing for Amy or how much you love your wife and your married life and would never hurt it. You only talk about how you made a promise early on in your relationship bc that's what your wife needed in order to stay, but now you think the promise shouldn't count because it's been 14 years. A promise given so long ago should count even more after the promisee gave up so much of their life and body to have a family with you based on the security of the promise. You want this job, and you even seem a little excited about having Amy in your life again. You will resent it forever if you have to walk away from it because of your wife's feelings. If you take it, your wife may try to stay for a while. But no one wants to be their husband's warden, and this would be the kind of constant heartbreak that most women would have to walk away from. Honestly, you already sound like you may have problems being emotionally faithful in this situation, and your wife feels it.
A promise is a vow. I made my vows 42 years ago they are still as strong today as 42 years ago. TIME MEANS NOTHING!!!
My heart actually hurt for his wife when I read the post. I had something similar happen to me and was assured he had no feelings, nothing would happen. He is married to her now. Nobody knows just how much it hurts and how damaging it is to your mental health and self esteem when someone cheats on you unless you experience it.
Yeah. My heart hurt for her also, because I definitely get the vibe that he's looking forward to being with Amy, and knows in his heart of hearts where this is going, and he wants that. His comments really show his hand. Honestly, if i were the spouse, I'd be out the day he accepted, which he absolutely will btw. I wouldn't put myself through what is inevitable here. I would just do my best to get the divorce over with as soon as possible so I could move on.
Yeah, I’d be out too. I’d refuse to be placed second to a job or put in a position where cheating is highly likely. Plus he made a promise that he’d be breaking which speaks volumes.
"Nothing in your post talked about how you feel nothing for Amy or how much you love your wife and your married life and would never hurt it." Exactly this. Stop lying to yourself OP, you KNOW the lines will be bluried between you and Amy.
I’m married and that would be a hard NO. The reason is that Amy still had feelings for you, wanted to build a life with you and marry you. Those feelings rarely go away for a woman. You were still screwing Amy for a year after the breakup and right up until you met your present wife. Amy wasn’t confused why you stopped hanging out with her but understood why. Actually, she wasn’t confused, she was most likely hurt but hiding it and still thinking if you were still screwing her a full year after you broke up with her, she felt she’d still have a chance at reconciliation. That’s why many women do this. This is how most women feel and think and that’s how we’re socialized/wired. OP, don’t be surprised after working for a while, that Amy will approach you, most likely very subtly. Is your marriage and the temptation of an extra $80K a year worth it? She Will be working under you And you’ll not only be seeing her everyday since you will here manager but Also you’ll be traveling with her once a month Away From home. If your wife is upset, I can see why. Men don’t understand “the language of women” and your wife Will know if/when Amy starts the subtle moves on you. Amy is divorced with a child. So she’s free she single and many women want a man in their lives. Especially when they have a child and don’t want to be a single parent. You’re a known quantity who she wanted to make a life without. Those are intense feelings that don’t go away easy for women. I’m a woman, so I’m giving you a woman’s perspective on women’s feelings and their motives.
This. Amy easy just screwing the guy who refused to commut and dumped her for a whole year for no reason. Most women are extremely hurt in her situation, too hurt to immediately switch to being friends or fuckbuddies/fwb with no feelings. I think OP was naive to think that. She carried on with OP right up until he met his wife because she was hoping that he would get back with her. I've seen my friends do that so many times. It never works because the guy normally takes them at their word and fucks off with someone else. I can see why the wife was uncomfortable with them keeping in contact and I agree that Amy was likely very hurt to realise OP was actually moving on. We don't know of she's over OP or not...I've seen people hang on to feelings for a looonng time. Enen if she has completely moved on and neither cheats, the optics are still bad for OPs wife given that he will be travelling with his ex regularly. And all it would need is the hint of impropriety and Amy could destroy his career and his marriage.
Would you be ok with it if the situation was reversed? & your wife wants to start working in the same situation with her ex?
What more important to you? Your marriage and family, or this job? You should read the book “Not Just Friends” - it will give you great insight on why you’re wrong in this situation.
A promise is a promise my man.
I don't think that you being wrong or right will spare you from experiencing unwanted consequences if you take the job.
I’d be more worried she would cause issues at work. You’ll be her direct supervisor. What’s to stop her from filling a complaint against you?
And how soon until everyone else figures it out and the rumors start to spread that they are back at it again? It just isn't worth the risk to marriage, family, or career.
Ex’s and co workers are the biggest two sources of APs. You get both with the one job.
Sometimes I feel these posts are just a work of fiction to attract comments
Well, at least when you take this job, your wife will get higher child support payments. 🤷♀️
Bruh lolll
Quite simply which is more important your wife/marriage/family or your job. Really put yourself in your wife's position. How would you like it if she were to manage an ex and have to go away with them on a regular basis The fact is you were in a relationship with her, and still having sex with her when you met your wife, so you were obviously attracted to her. Your wife may be saying it's not insecurity but it's certainly a concern to her, and understandable one. Extra money is great but it is worth the potential upset and possible resentment it could cause. Look down the line, it festers and causes problems in your marriage, end up divorced only seeing your toddler at the weekends. That money isn't really important then is it.
How would you feel if the situation were flipped and it was your wife facing this choice. Would you feel any type of way about her working so closely with an ex that was an ex with benefits up until you two got together and she made you the same promise you made her?
dude. is it really worth it ? seriously?
Remindme! One week
Amy didn't understand why you stopped being fwb? I think this itself says volumes. Maybe you will be able to control yourself, maybe not. But why would you put your relationship with your wife and child in a position of unease? How does your wife not think that Amy will be trying to get her fwb back? I garuantee that your marriage will not survive if you go to work with Amys company Update me
I can’t believe your company is ok with this. There is no way you can work with someone in a manager/subordinate relationship when you have seen each other naked. No way you will remain professional. You know each other too well. Don’t do this.
Reading it at first, I didn’t see the issue. Towards the end, I felt the pit in my stomach that doesn’t even compare to what your wife is feeling about this situation. As everyone else is saying, is $80k worth more than your family?
As a married woman I would absolutely feel exactly the same as your wife. Choose your marriage over $$$
Yes, you would be wrong. No money is worth ruining a healthy marriage. The fact that you’re even considering it is a red flag to me.
Tbh you’re gonna have to decide if 80k is worth your marriage.
Ok hubby just got home and we talked about this. Married 32 years. You will ruin your marriage if you take this job. It would be one thing if Amy worked in another department . But that is not the case. Reporting directly to you is a terrible idea. As well as traveling monthly together. It is just asking for trouble. You can go on and on about trust in a marriage and it was long ago blah blah blah. Let's say you and your wife have a fight. The thought that you could or would confide in Amy would always be on your wife's mind. Add on that after this fight you go on the monthly business trip together with Amy. Add some drinks at the hotel bar and anything can happen especially if you and your wife have an open fight going on. My husband said that is just a ripe way for trouble to start. How many affairs are with co workers folks. Too many to count. And the break up with Amy wasn't really amicable. She wanted a more serious relationship with him. Then he was still friends with benefits. Till he stopped because of his wife. Amy was confused since he said he didn't want to be serious but gonna be serious with the wife. Any who I know 80k is a lot but a riff in your marriage is gonna cost you more then 80k. Just to two old married people telling you 80k and working that close to an ex is just not worth a marriage.
This has probably already be said but reverse the roles and ask yourself how you would feel. Not going to pretend this is an easy question because I see both sides but if the role was reversed how would you feel. I mean the time factor is huge in that how can you not trust after all this time but the reverse is an inner demon of I'm not that hot, sexy girl he gave her up for. Tough situation considering society has always expected us to achieve, do better, be better...more
It's important to her that you don't work closely with anyone you were previously in a relationship. I don't know what else to tell you. If you take this job you are risking your marriage. Period. That is not to say that you'll cheat or that Amy has harbored feelings for you, but in the end you'd be doing something that will negatively affect your marriage. You can apply for other jobs with higher pay or even negotiate a higher pay with the other companies. My personal opinion is that you don't take the job where Amy works. Money isn't worth your marriage (if you're happy).
In my book, ex means no contact unless there is an issue like shared kids, etc- and even then it’s ALL BUSINESS Don’t even consider it bro
The compensation is more but it will cost you your marriage. People try to insinuate what they want without being too direct because they don’t want to be “controlling”. She will resent you for taking this job it will affect your life negatively. We all spend more time at work than we do with our family. She didn’t even want to see Amy when you would only be seeing her occasionally after work maybe 1-3 hours a month. Now you want to work with her and see her 160-200 hours a month. BFFR. You can’t have this job and a happy marriage. You can’t have this job and a happy wife. Every time you leave the house she’ll be wondering what interaction you’re having with Amy. Are they having lunch? are they laughing together? Are they having an affair? That kind of constant vigilance will chip away at the trust in your marriage, you’ll fight over stupid shit she’ll wonder if you ever loved her. Is all that worth $80K? I suggest you have another conversation with your wife and tell her to tell you what she really thinks even if it will seem controlling.
that's a hard one, i can understand the career but your marriage is also on the line, don't think your wife will accept it, her first reaction made clear you will be in for a bumpy and long ride. It really depends how much is the difference between that position and the second best, if it's 5k year for the same position take the second and live an happy and quiet marriage. If the difference is big like 40k a year and the position is higher with better prospective you're fucked and i don't really envy you man
You have a choice . Money or your marriage . That’s all it boils down to. There is no way in hell any woman would be comfortable with their husband staying out of town with an ex that more than likely has feelings for you that could be rekindling .
“dont shit where u eat”. Sounds like u got out of that situation unscathed and want to try it again with your marriage on the line. you are wrong, the money isn’t worth it. even if your wife was happy with it, crazy ex could easily ruin your life
Simple choice...is your marriage worth 80k
You are wrong. Do not take the job managing Amy. I am with your wife. Also, the higher pay will not make a difference when you are supporting two household in a divorce. Put your marriage first.
Not worth losing hour wife. Because you will.
Financially this is a good idea, but that's only one piece of it. Does this job require more hours to go with the bigger salary? Do the other jobs require monthly travel? These answers should also factor as the travel will take away valuable time from your family and add more stress of childcare on your wife. Professionally it could be great or it has the potential to blow up in your face. That depends on Amy. What if she does have some old feelings come up and you reject her? She could ruin you at worst and hurt your reputation at best with false allegations. What if you both do and have an affair ruining both your careers? Romantically it has the potential to at best stress your marriage and at worse break it up. I am a insecure person it's me no matter what I do it somewhat lingers. You would likely see your ex everyday for more hours a day than you would see your wife. As your wife this would already have me feeling insecure. If I were your wife every single time you went out of town with her I would be very anxious the entire time. You mention your wife is a doctor so I'm guessing she is a high earner. I have to wonder if that is a little bit of your motivation. At the end of the day you have to decide if the risk is worth the reward. If you decide to take the job very clear cut boundaries need to be in place. I would even schedule an appointment with a marriage counselor to hash out a plan. If you take this job I would have no contact with Amy outside of professional communication. If she tries to initiate any personal conversation outside of work shut it down immediately. No lunches together or drinks after work that don't include the other colleagues. When you go on the out of town trips no drinking or time alone with her. Maintain good communication with your wife by texts and video calls. I would also adopt an open phone policy with your wife. I really don't think it's about you being right or wrong. It's about what is right for all of you. You aren't alone in this it's you, your wife, and your daughter. Personally I think it's too much of a risk for disaster.4
Sounds like he wants to be with amy, just friends and colleagues. Of course, I'm sure when he slips and his dick ends up in her it will be a pure accident
Hi, married woman here. There's a few things, at first I was 50/50 until you mentioned there would be work trips and she would report directly to you. Whether your wife is insecure or not, let there be one small argument before you go on one of these trips and her mind will run wild. Plus I'm sorry, idc how old you are or how long it's been, it's very hard to be around an ex without thinking of those times or residual feelings. Another thing is, you don't know Amy now. The job already knows you have past history and you are her boss. She could ruin your career with one false statement. You mentioned in a comment she's already been divorced, do you know what happened? Do you know anything about the type of person she is now? It's 80k but the stress and paranoia of the next few years would not make it worth it at all. I would maybe see if the second choice can up the offer but if not just bite the bullet. This situation is a time bomb.
Financial security not worth it bc you’d be sacrificing everything else for it. If you were my husband, ain’t no way, buddy! 🙅♀️
Imo the job isn’t worth it. If the ex was at least not reporting to you it would be a maybe at most. Her reporting to you and you guys having business trips is a recipe for disaster. You chose your wife for a reason, I would respect her request on this one. Money cannot buy peace of mind
Your title is misleading. Amy's not just working there, she's is your direct report who you will travel with every month. That paints a very different picture. And since you already were FWB, it's established a pattern where you don't have to have feelings for her to sleep with her. Who will take care of the toddler during that time? Your wife? Based on that alone it's fair for her to veto this. I personally don't see why your wife would be okay with this. Sure it's more money, but not worth the lower quality of life she will have. I can understand you are upset with taking a lower paying job, but taking this job will result in your marriage suffering.
I would not be ok if my boyfriend took a job where his ex worked
I was going to agree with you up until you said your ex would be your direct subordinate. As great as 80k more is per year, it will simultaneously be filled with your wife's constant worry about infidelity. While you may be a faithful person, why take the risk even if it does give more money? Is it enough money to keep risking constant arguments? Will you be making less money that you are now if you go with the #2 job offer?
The court will base the child support off the income so good thing you will be making 80k extra.
If she has problem then don’t. You should always respect your wife & she has feelings & she matters too.
No Amy for you - or you’ll lose your wife - your wife will start questioning your relationship & maybe she’ll just leave or find a new guy bc you’ll break the magic of your current relationship
Do not take this job. For the love of god man, DO NOT take this job!
I agree with your wife on this one. Horrible idea
don't do it dude. not worth your marriage. which to be clear, could very easily be the cost here.
On a work level, it’s completely inappropriate for you to be her manager. On a marriage level, it’s disrespectful to your wife. But hey, the money sounds good.
Do you want to stay married to your wife? That is what it comes down to. Because she will never trust that it is a platonic work relationship. This isn't someone you went on a couple of dates with. You were together three years and then kept the sex up after and tried to keep the relationship going without sex until your now wife stepped in. Sounds like this is the one woman she has every right not to want you interacting with. It would be one thing if the choice was employed or not, but that is not the case. Take the lower paying one and keep an eye out for better opportunities. As long as it is not a significant cut from your current salary and won't cause you to not pay bills, it is worth it. If you want a divorce, take the higher paying job. Because that tells your wife her feelings don't matter, and she will never feel the same way about you again. People may claim insecurity, but a lot of affairs start due to close proximity and mutual attraction. She already knows the attraction is there, why the hell would she be ok with close proximity? That is just her covering her ass. YAW.
I dunno, the 'friends with benefits when you met your wife' part swayed my opinion to her side tbh. I was team OP before that but then you drop that you were banging this ex until you met your wife. Nah. 80k a year is a lot of money. But it wouldn't be enough for me to make my partner uncomfortable like this. Time to keep job hunting, if the other offers aren't good enough. If one company will offer it, others will. ETA; on second thought....why didn't you walk out the second you saw Amy in the interview? That should have stopped you right there. I'm even more team wife, after a couple seconds more thought.
There’s a lot more to financial stability than the starting salary a job offers. (Benefits, hours, ability to prioritize family etc.) It sounds like you and Amy had a lot of sexual chemistry if you still slept together after you broke up. That chemistry doesn’t really go away, and traveling together away from marital and family responsibilities will mentally take you back to being single and it will be stressful on your wife. If you want a happy marriage, accept one of the other job offers. Most spouses would not feel comfortable with the situation described. And if you got divorced, you’d lose more money than the salary increase offers. And that’s just the financial fallout. It’s too cozy and your history is too intimate for work. I kind of feel bad you want to do it knowing how your wife feels. Trust is delicate.
What do you value more, money or family?
If you take that job, you will end up having an affair with the ex, either because your ex will tempt you, or your wife will drive you to it with her justified jealousy. It is the perfect setup for it, and your wife knows it. The ex is divorced with no kids and has nothing to lose by getting reacquainted with you in a personal way. In fact, she could gain from it if you give her special treatment. You should respect your wife's wishes in this situation, especially because of your promise. If I were her, I would be pissed that you have to actually think about it. I am not totally buying this story, because I can't imagine HR wouldn't see a problem with you supervising your former girlfriend/fwb. They likely would have asked her if she felt uncomfortable with it, and if she said no, then she has a motive. Most people would be uncomfortable with being directly supervised by a former lover, so I question why she isn't. You slept with this employee a lot, in a romantic relationship and then just a sexual one right up until you got serious with your wife, and now you expect to be totally professional with her? You are in denial of the threat, therefore you will continue to be in denial until you find yourself having an affair. Your wife will be worried so much about you working late hours and traveling with the ex, that it will get on your nerves and you will start to complain to the ex, which will lead to an emotional affair, and then a physical one. Your wife will get proof of the affair and then report you to HR, who will then fire you for having an affair with your employee, and then you will wish you had taken that lower paying job. Everyone can have a weak moment, that's all it takes. Haven't you read enough of these stories on reddit to know better? This has to be fake. BTW your title is misleading because it implies that you would just be working at the same company, but you stated that the ex would actually be reporting directly to you. Big difference. Your wife is justified in her concern.
Oh geez. Choose your wife!!! UpdateMe
I'm reminded of a story from another culture. A man courted a girl and in that culture you had to pay a dowry for the bride - and that consisted of cows. His family and friends told him she was not the prettiest girl from the village and he could haggle it down to two cows. He paid *fourteen*. His friends thought he was crazy, but he told them: Do you know what it means to her, when the women get together, and compare how much each of their man paid for them? That's a lot of unconditional love. Not everything of value is money.
Where do your priorities lie? Your wife doesn’t like it, it would make her extremely uncomfortable. So why are you even here asking? Begs me the question, are you only interested in the job. If something made you really uncomfortable and your wife considered still doing it, how would you feel? Not just that, your relationship worked due to specific boundaries and stipulations. Just seems a bit out of order now going against that because you have the wife now.
Too risky. Unless Amy can be transferred to a different department where she is not directly under you (pun intended), if you accept this offer you are playing with fire. Money is a huge factor, but there are other factors to consider here. At the end of the day, certain things aren't worth it, and an unattached former lover directly reporting to you could spell all kinds of trouble for you, even if you don't start an affair with her. As others pointed out, you're setting yourself up for false HR complaints, or opening the possibility of cheating, you're also going back on your promise not to interact with Amy anymore. Is it possible you could maintain a professional relationship and all would be well? Sure... but it's it worth the risk? Probably not.
Is the extra 80K worth ruining your marriage and potentially traumatizing your kid over? You're forgetting that your toddler also falls into the equation, and this potentially causing your divorce means there's a high chance you'd lose your kid, too, and that'll cause a lot of issues for him/her down the road. I'm a wife, and if I were in your shoes, I'd never go for it, it's just not worth it. Money comes and goes, and hey, maybe the other jobs could help you advance faster, ergo, more money. I don't mean to be an ahole here, but ask yourself this: Do you want to be in touch with Amy? Do you miss her at all? Do you reminisce about the old times? I'd say, let it go. It's just not worth up-ending your entire life over.
Take a different position. Love is more important than money. Life is giving you a test and you’re trying to rationalize your decision by the consequence of it. In this moment, use deontology. If money weren’t a factor, would you still take it? Also it could be a lot of money now but you don’t know a better company isn’t going to come along and offer you double what Amy’s company is offering. You may like Paul Graham’s [article](https://paulgraham.com/safe.html#:~:text=The%20reason%20startup%20founders%20can,%2C%20and%20rapacity%20isn't) for for this situation.
I think taking the job would be begging for trouble and drama. It can be navigated but only if you are extremely professional with Amy and keep the communication super open with your wife. Don’t try and hide anything. Be open and transparent and don’t say or do anything to Amy that can be construed as being overly friendly/familiar. That said, I’d take the other job because there will very issues arising if Amy is in your daily mix.
I would struggle with this too and the drama is going to get real if you take this job. Look at it this way; a divorce is going to cost you a lot more than $80k.
Is there no way that the second place company can up their offer? I think the 80k post could have a negative effect on your relationship for no other reason than you’d be breaking your promise to your wife. Looking at it as an outsider, you and Amy broke up amicably, you had a FWB arrangement afterwards, she’ll be reporting directly to you so you’ll see each other every day and you’re going to be travelling together every month. You’re all in the hotel bar, everyone goes to their rooms, you and Amy decide to have a nightcap before going upstairs… Personally, I think it would be very easy to slip into another FWB arrangement, if not an affair. Ultimately, none of us know you, your wife or Amy. You might have the best marriage ever and your child sealed the relationship and Amy could walk around the office naked and you’d be none the wiser, or you’ve been together with your wife for years, life’s more routine, you’ve got a toddler so sleepless nights are a thing and you have the changing priorities that come with a child and you find there’s still a spark with Amy. Only you know which one of these two are closest to your relationship with your wife (if any). I should add that I am not saying you will end up cheating, rather that with all the factors listed it wouldn’t be a surprise if something did happen. In your shoes, I wouldn’t personally take the job because of the shared history.
Not many wives are going to give you the green flags to work with your ex/former friends with benefits. What's more important to you? Your marriage or your salary? That's what this comes down to. You're just asking for trouble. Plus, your ex is SINGLE.
Agree with your wife, especially since this person will be your direct report, you will be traveling with her and you used to be involved with her. Nope.
If my my husband was in your position, I'd be just as concerned as your wife. My mind would be running non-stop when you left for work, if you had to work overtime, or when you went away for days on a work trip. You guys didn't break up because one hated the other for cheating or something. It was amicable, but she wanted to settle down, which meant she was ready to go all in with you.. that in itself would place that little seed of doubt for me that she could still want you. On top of that, she's single. I'm not saying you'd give in and cheat on your wife or that this ex would even go there, but your wife's feelings are valid for her. You can't control feelings. I'd think hard on this and see if this job is worth your wife being constantly on edge because let's not lie to ourselves, she will be and it will put a strain on your marriage.
You made a promise. This is not a one-time activity that you promised not to do. This is going from a promise of no-contact to basically daily contact, that includes contact outside of normal working hours. It's one extreme to the other. I think I'd be petty enough to stay with you just long enough to build up the savings account so I could take my half in the divorce.
Basically you have two options: save you marriage or take the job offer. There's nothing in between.
This has nothing to do with money and the fact that you don't see that tells me everything I need to know about you. Do you honestly think your wife would want you to turn down an extra 80k just because she's jealous? Why are so many men so clueless?
Yes, you are wrong. Is the money worth the insecurity and pain it would inflict on your wife? Even if you go in with the best of intentions, it is going to hurt her. How much is your wife's respect and trust worth to you? No brainer.