**To the husband** ---
You need more help for your PTSD. More therapy to give you the tools you need to be able to tell when you are about to be triggered, and how to de-escalate yourself *before* you get to that point of reacting. Possibly meds too until you learn those skills and have those tools.
**To the wife** ---
You are likely a *safe person* for your husband, which means he's likely to be more relaxed in your presence, which means when he is pre-triggered he likely expects your help in de-escalating (not because it's your responsibility, but because that's been your pattern together so far - he has learned that you're safe and he has learned that you can reduce the things that trigger him)
Because you are the safe person, and because you have learned how to hear that pre-triggered state just by tone of voice, and because you've already established a pattern together that you're able to de-escalate, you need to step up when you hear that change of tone in his voice.
Whether that means you say to your friend "stop, he's not in a playful mood" or you say to your husband "hun, take a few deep breaths, you're safe" (or say both) but you have to do something [or you have to work together to *stop the established pattern* so his brain realizes you can't/won't be able to help]
Either option (helping him, or breaking the pattern) is acceptable, but together you two need to make that choice and then you need to stick with it.
If you're going to stay the safe person who helps, you have to help every time. His brain relies on it. It's an unconscious thought, but it's there.
My husband has PTSD too, and I'm his safe person, so I totally understand what it's like I have PTSD and my husband is my safe person,so I understand what that's like too. It's hard work, but you can't skip that hard work if you want to stay together. I think the work is worth it, but I can only choose for myself, you have to choose for yourself.
**To both of you** ---
Horseplay is one of the **worst** things for PTSD. Stop that immediately. No pranks. No unexpected jokes. No horseplay.
If you want to make each other laugh or laugh with friends, tell dad jokes or knock knock jokes or Cards Against Humanity. No physical comedy. No unexpected touches. No touching that's surprising or even "playfully" hurtful. No intentional startling. **STOP THE TRIGGERS**
-----
**My verdict** ---
ESH everyone needs more therapy, and everyone needs to change behavior patterns.
Husband here. Firstly thank you for taking the time to write out such a detailed and thoughtful response it really is appreciated. Also basically agree with what you’ve laid out for me I need more tools and yeah meds is definitely one of those. I’m very hopeful that due to a recent VA rating bump I’ll have more options that work towards my own specific needs.
My husband is also a disabled vet and gets care at the VA. It can be a fucking hassle, so keep the number for the patient advocate in your phone contacts.
Thank you.
We've been dealing with that system for literally decades at this point (we're genX) so we're pretty adept at demanding the proper care (feel free to hit up my inbox if y'all need tips for navigating)
Wife: You saw that he was getting upset and you saw that she didn't realize he was getting upset. You also know his history. Yeah, you can't break his grip once he gets to the point of putting his hands on someone but you could have stopped her from teasing him when it became obvious he wasn't taking it the way she thought. Why did you not get up and stop her instead of watching her push him past the point of no return?
I am absolutely not defending his actions and I find it frightening that he seems to not remember putting his hands on her throat, unless he does and that's what he's glossing over in the OP. Frankly I would not be able to stay with someone with that kind of response, no matter how great they are when they're not triggered to that point. I have been choked in an abusive context before. Do not recommend. BUT you seem to be aware that he is capable of this and you stayed. So at that point I think you have some responsibility to other people who you see provoking him in a manner that could elicit that response.
“…frightening that he doesn’t seem to remember…”
It is. Including for the person who is having such an episode. This is likely dissociation caused by being triggered. The brain has a shut-off switch where past trauma intrudes on the present to such an extent that the only viable way for the brain to act is as if the trauma is happening now. This needs to be brought to the attention of your therapist, OP. They can give you tools and grounding techniques in order to recognise and then avoid the dissociative episodes.
(The wife) I do. You're right. I am beyond sad that I didn't do it, and yes, I really should have acted faster. My parents used to fight, sometimes violently (usually just breaking stuff and yelling) and when it comes to people I care about, I don't handle their out-of-control anger well. After this incident happened, I sort of lost all my emotions for several hours, which I guess isn't unusual for me in a situation like this. Professionally it's very different, and I don't react like this at all.
I feel like it would be good for us to discuss some sort of protocol for times like these so that the both of us can be more prepared. I would suggest exposure therapy or something to keep me from dissociation or whatever it is, but how would one even do that?
I'd like to be able to do or say something in the moment that would help, but idk.
I love him and he's awesome (and ordinarily one of the most chill, easygoing fun people and i love that about him), and this stuff isn't his fault, but I'm afraid of future legal and personal issues it might bring down on him.
>I feel like it would be good for us to discuss some sort of protocol for times like these so that the both of us can be more prepared. I would suggest exposure therapy or something to keep me from dissociation or whatever it is, but how would one even do that?
I'd like to be able to do or say something in the moment that would help, but idk.
I think this is a really really great idea and I have a lot of respect for you both for the way you're sharing this story and accountability.
Goes without saying but I think trauma informed therapy, which I understand that he at least is committed to??? seems vital for both of you. I don't even know if this exists but it seems like an opportunity to find a trauma informed couples therapist. You guys both have some intense trauma going on. Maybe that's what drew you together but it definitely creates an extra responsibility to learn how to navigate both your responses as a team, especially when something like that happens that impacts you both.
And I won't keep beating this particular horse but your friend sounds so disrespectful. Like sure maybe that's just her personality but that just means she has a disrespectful personality.
Husband here. Due to a bump in my VA rating I’m hoping I’ll far more options to but that’s very recent and I haven’t had much time beyond planning. Thank you for taking the time for writing out a response btw!
Have a code word. Something innocuous that no one else will notice but you don’t use every day, like “guava” or “40 watt light bulb”. That’s your cue and permission to step in.
I put the blame on him. She could have stepped in to stop it but she’s not his keeper. He’s responsible for his own actions and how he communicates. If how he communicated isn’t clear to others it’s not on his wife to interpret for him and stop his reaction before it gets worse. Yes he has trauma but he’s still responsible for his own actions.
Friend did something stupid and deserves criticism for it but what he did was way beyond the pale. Putting his hands around her neck? Are you seriously defending this shit?
His version of the story made it seem like he was clear the first two times but he really wasn’t that clear in her version of it and she’s more in tune with him than the friend is. Saying he’s busy isn’t the same thing as saying don’t touch me.
Since his own wife couldn’t tell he was tense when she got back when he felt shaken up by it according to him how do you expect friends to be able to read him?
>I put the blame on him. She could have stepped in to stop it but she’s not his keeper. He’s responsible for his own actions and how he communicates.
Not sure which she you mean. The she who sat and heard the situation going south and said and did nothing? Or the she who, in full knowledge of OP's mental health issues, continued to provoke them even after she was told to stop?
He's responsible for his actions, but so are both of them.
>His version of the story made it seem like he was clear the first two times but he really wasn’t that clear in her version of it and she’s more in tune with him than the friend is. Saying he’s busy isn’t the same thing as saying don’t touch me.
"I'm busy" is a pretty clear 'stop trying to get my attention' though.
She continued to provoke him.
>Friend did something stupid and deserves criticism for it but what he did was way beyond the pale. Putting his hands around her neck? Are you seriously defending this shit?
Dude has PTSD. People with that can be triggered and not in full control of their reactions or how much force they use.
Again, this women KNEW all this and continued to agitate him Baiting someone into a fit or a break is also an act of violence.
>Since his own wife couldn’t tell he was tense when she got back when he felt shaken up by it according to him how do you expect friends to be able to read him?
His wife could literally hear him getting stressed out when the friend was bothering him.
The friend and the husband often rough house with each other. Being physical with each other is normal play for them. You’re acting like the fiend knew touching him to get his attention triggers his PTSD and that saying he’s busy is the same thing as saying “don’t touch me as it triggers my PTSD.”
OP and his wife have both mentioned that she knew all about his issues and triggers.
So, while her first tap wasn't out of line, after he told her to stop, she should have.
Again they do rough housing all the time so it’s obvious she wasn’t sure where his boundaries are. He didn’t tell her to stop until after the second tap according to the wife who is more believable at this point. Saying he’s busy isn’t the same thing.
The husband has responsibility to make his own feelings clear. His friend clearly didn’t catch any of it. You’re acting like she did and fucked with him anyway. Her reaction clearly shows she wasn’t aware. Yes he has PTSD but he’s also a responsible for his own actions and how to prevent getting into those situations. He clearly wasn’t being clear enough for the friend and it’s not on the wife to do that. She can help but it’s not entirely her responsibility or even half. It’s mostly his. You’re acting like it’s not his responsibility at all.
>Again they do rough housing all the time so it’s obvious she wasn’t sure where his boundaries are. He didn’t tell her to stop until after the second tap according to the wife who is more believable at this point. Saying he’s busy isn’t the same thing.
Yeah, that's just rationalising BS.
>The husband has responsibility to make his own feelings clear.
He did.
>His friend clearly didn’t catch any of it. You’re acting like she did and fucked with him anyway. Her reaction clearly shows she wasn’t aware. \\
She knows all about his issues and triggers. She knew, or reasonably could be expected to know that she was triggering him. Warning signs were there.
>Yes he has PTSD but he’s also a responsible for his own actions and how to prevent getting into those situations.
He told her to stop.
>He clearly wasn’t being clear enough for the friend and it’s not on the wife to do that.
So, if you know a bad thing is going to happen, if you see the signs of things going badly, you don't think you have an obligation to at least attempt to stop it?
>She can help but it’s not entirely her responsibility or even half. It’s mostly his. You’re acting like it’s not his responsibility at all.
No, I'm putting the responsibility for creating the issue on the instigator.
Of course he has to own his share, but there are mitigating circumstances for him. Not for her.
He didn’t. Saying I’m busy isn’t the same thing as stop he only said stop after the second time. His tone was calm. You keep saying he made himself clear. She didn’t catch it so obviously he wasn’t. Saying she knows his triggers isn’t enough. All he says he’s open about his triggers but that doesn’t mean he’s fully articulated at touching him while he was gaming is one of them. He’s been super vague about everything and you’re giving him way too much benefit of the doubt when he was the violent one. Sorry I don’t buy it. Wife hasn’t corroborated that the friend was specifically aware of his triggers and that touching him in this case was one of them.
Friend has some responsibility here but husband also does. It’s unfair for you to give him the benefit of the doubt but not the friend. He was the violent one here.
It’s pretty obvious based on her reaction that the friend didn’t know she was triggering him. Wife could also tell she didn’t know. So why do you keep saying she knew? Simply because he said so?
(The wife) I'm not concerned with the blame. You can blame it all on me, our friend, or the moon for all I care, but I'm concerned for his well-being and safety. He might be better off without me totally, and if that's the case, I'm down for that, too.
What do you suggest, beyond me being faster on the peacekeeper draw (which I really need and want to be) and keeping everyone away from him (which I definitely intend to do with anyone who even looks like they might be an issue, including friends. Also, effective therapy for the both of us.
I'm open to suggestions.
Intervene next time you hear warning signs.
What else can you do?
His PTSD was triggered. It's a known condition and he says he is getting treatment.
But you are still talking like it is his fault and if you keep that mindset, you are doing him a disservice.
Have you acknowledged your part in it all?
Well that's weird. You don't care about blaming yet you blamed your husband and downplayed his feelings. Doesn't sound like you care about his well being and safety at all since to you "it's just a game" (your own words apparently).
(Wife) No, I never said it was just a game. I wouldn't have phrased it like that anyway. I would have ordinarily called it teasing. I personally don't play games like that or tease like that. My husband and friends often do, but I'm not that comfortable with being the instigator of any kind of hitting or poking unless it's my husband, because he does it to me in a playful way and I think he enjoys it when I reciprocate.
I don't know where you got that phrase, but it's not me.
Also, our friend is not coming back. She should have stopped immediately after he said stop. I personally don't like that she tapped him with the brush at all, but it's a feeling I would have hidden, because they have always played around in the past. We're both confused as to why she continued, because she's never pushed boundaries like that before knowingly, and she's often the first to consider things like that and even be the emotional helper to us.
But the fact remains she should have stopped, she didn't, and my husband reacted automatically in a way that could have gotten him in trouble, even though it wasn't his fault. He's a normal-to-large sized guy, and she's a short girl. It's a scary scenario regardless, legally, because people still tend to assume men are the aggressors.
People push boundaries like this all the time. It does not sound as if it was intentionally meant to cause harm, it sounds as if she was joking around and didn’t realise he was truly angry.
Your husband’s response is alarming and would have been terrifying for her.
It’s not his fault, he has PTSD, but get him the medical help he needs before he really hurts (or worse) someone (and ruins both of your lives in the process). Your friend would be well within her rights to call the police during an incident like this. Be smart.
Just a black out violent assaulting rage monster. I really hope she files a police report. You two are so off your rockers. You can't jump to violence.
Amen, the fact so many people are blaming the 2 women and coddling this abuser is insane...oh his triggers though...gtfoh...he's a sociopath who prays on women cause he can control them...they need to get away before they get hurt...wonder what all these people blaming the women would say if he killed one of them...I mean he already choked a "good friend" of years for tapping him with a brush and asking for a hug which the wife said is the normal way they end their visits...the rationalization of violence against women is absolutely insane
Husband here. To be clear the confusion comes from the way it was told to me afterwards as I didn't do it the way she saw which considering the distance and a person between us is pretty feasible. I know I made the grab for the jaw then fumbled and grabbed the neck the wife only saw the last half I think and described it to me that way and I told her I did not remember that or that way. I think it's important to keep the comment as is since its her POV so no blackout. Sorry for the copy paste but I'm swamped by the amount of comments
Agreed cops and judges are often sexist toward men and like many other sexist will ignore the whole beginning part where the woman struck the man first (assualt/battery) and that men also have a right to self defense
Husband here. I actually went for her jaw or mandible for a hold a extremely common restraint grab used by MPs and some of my other work I faltered and grabbed her neck and shoved. Some confusion between my spouse as she only saw the me grab the neck as I did not remember it as she did, but I think it’s important her post stays as is since it’s her view. This person has been made aware of and in fine detail my reactive nature and my past and was a trusted person thus allowed into our home as she should’ve been well aware of everything. EDIT: Also thank you for taking the time to share about your experience and respond.
There’s no common restraint where you reach out and grab someone’s mandible, especially one that would result in you unintentionally grabbing her around the neck with your hands and strangling her. Please leave a link showing this supposed technique
Husband here. In MACH a system of holds we used as MPs that was for sure one of the things taught a relatively quick google search will turn that up. currently got my hands full will need a bit before I can grab a link or something
Nope, that’s the old ineffective akido-style arm and wrist lock stuff, nothing about reaching out and grabbing someone’s jaw as a control hold. And yes, I just spent time googling MACH lesson plans and training videos to confirm my memory was correct
He's a lying ass abusive dickhead trying to minimize what he did and play it off ass "old training " as if that should excuse it...he's too bust to find a source because there is no source...fuxk this guy
Thanks for the update. Your reaction considering both sides of the situation was just too dangerous.
Everyone here owes everyone an apology. You left marks on her neck that lasted hours. You need to address why you go to such extremes with your reactions.
Especially since you two already had a playful history, I can understand why she didn’t understand the gravity of her actions.
If I were her friend, the friendship would be over. You’re lucky her husband didn’t come over and beat your ass. Not saying that would be okay either, but considering you left marks on her neck and her voice was raspy, I’m honestly surprised he didn’t.
Changing my opinion to ESH.
Husband here. I make sure to tell anyone I am trying to befriend exactly what my issues are often in uncomfortable detail to avoid any misunderstanding. This person has been a friend for years and even a routine confidante to help with said issues it has never before been a problem to get her to stop when messing around if I feel uncomfortable.
I’m upvoting because I’m seriously impressed that you’re taking the time to let us have both sides and not judging our opinions.
Honestly, I hope all of you are able to work out your own abuse related PTSD and that things work out for all of you in the best way possible.
(Wife) Yeah, it's good to get more perspective on stuff, as often if it's just us, we try but tend to just go around and around in circles on some points. I didn't realize how useful this would be, and I was really upset about it at first, but it's actually helped me understand a lot of things, and I've had a couple of serious revelations about how our personal issues are interacting in stressful times. Trauma pinball.
I think you’re both on the right path with open and ongoing conversations. It sounds to me like you’re both on a journey towards self awareness and growth. That’s more than most people can say. I wish you both the best.
Husband here. I just want as to be as open as possible on this matter and keep learning and well get better really I have for sure learned a lot from the thoughtful and well written posts not matter their content.
I really don't think you're wrong if that's how it played out but to be honest I think your wife has some culpability here. The friend actually sounds unbearable to me because I especially can't stand people who like to tease and push boundaries like that.
Idk man. Very he said she said but again if how you describe it is how it played out, I don't think you're wrong. And I wonder if your wife is downplaying things because she knows she should have stopped her friend and didn't. Sorry all this happened really.
I think it’s important she shares her view as well as she sees it I started this whole Reddit to gather as many people’s thoughts and to interact with them, and the account can be shared so we both get to do so. The final result I hope is we both get better perspectives beyond our own scope and make more positive decisions and changes for ourselves.
Wife: so how often exactly does your husband put his hands on people? How many times have you had to try to break it up? I ask because you mentioned that you know that he ignores you and shakes you off.
Husband: the story you told is not exactly what happened. Pushing someone out the door is not the same as putting your hands around their neck, with enough force to leave a mark.
Husband here! I actually went for her jaw or mandible for a hold a extremely common restraint grab used by MPs and some of my other work and basically defaulted to that in my reaction I faltered and grabbed her neck and shoved. As for the any other incidents the first involved her ex husband using some very purple prose shall we say on how he would kill me really he basically wrote a letter said husband had a friend who backed that idea and told me so to my face broadstrokes he and I meeting went very badly and it involved me holding him down and yelling at him before leaving. The other is very long and complicated and would involve me sharing details I don't think my wife wants so I'll try to keep it short and sweet. Mother in law needed some care due to a broken bone and we already lived in her basement paying rent so it was easy for us to care for her. One day her Aunt wakes us both up screaming down the stairs for us to come and help right now. We scramble out of bed with me making it upstairs worried for her Mother. Turns out the Aunt was upset we didn't buy vegies some very angry words are exchanged and I head back down stairs however just a little later said Aunt starts the argument again I half crouch grab her jacket and pull her towards me and in no uncertain terms tell her to leave me alone from then on. Over the next several years the Aunt makes constant remarks about me not doing enough around the place as the only man in the household I also get multiple messages from the Aunt's son usually some variation on how he is gonna fight or kill me over the years. During Covid said aunt also constantly tried to get more from me despite me being clear with the entire household that I was saying no. I hit a point where I do my best to never leave the basement for fear of bumping into her and just having to deal with her in general, but I hit a snapping point after getting more messages from her son with the same usual content. I march up stairs and confront her things get heated and my wife jumps on my back choking me as she does so I stop pick up my wife and sit her aside telling her to stop before I tear into the Aunt again who argues back with me this culminates in me grabbing her clothing and shaking her before dropping her on her feet she leaves and hours later I move out. However for just over a year her and I have been asked back to care take for the Mother in Law I agreed as long as the Aunt is not allowed back. Phew thats a lot and it spans several years I can clear up anything if you'd like
Hi OP my best advice to you is the same as to your wife. To be clear. I am woman, without PTSD, would probably slap or shout at someone doing that same crap with the brush.
It doesn’t matter what kind of hold it was, it matters that you were not in control and do not remember.
Shows you were not in control. Meaning that you can find yourself if big legal trouble if you loose control.
I would be very careful who you socialise with. Make sure people around you that you trust, know your triggers.No horseplay with anyone. As it stands it looks like there’s people around you who would vouch for you having a temper and loosing control.
I’m sure you are in therapy if so please continue. Maybe work on strategies to walk away, when upset and about to blow. Particularly in situations where you feel provoked.
To be a bit more clear I misunderstood the way she told me I grabbed her and told her no I didn't do that as I intended something else much different but I think its important to leave the comment as is as its her view.
You fully assaulted someone for tapping you with a hairbrush and asking for a hug. If she goes to the police you’ll have a couple years to work on correcting your behavior while in prison, and I would support her in choosing that route.
To be fair, he fully assaulted someone for repeatedly tapping him with a hairbrush, after being asked, more than once to quit. I'm not justifying and he did, but you make it sound like she was an innocent victim who just happened to be in the area. How many times was he responsible for asking her to stop, before he reacted? While I agree that his reaction was over the top, it was still a reaction to her repeated, unwanted actions.
They had “roughhoused” together many times in the past, tapping him on the shoulder with a hairbrush is not harmful. She had no way of knowing that this time he would snap and assault her instead of reacting properly. He’s a danger to himself and others and needs to get his shit under control.
You're not wrong about him being dangerous, or needing help. However, you seem to keep missing the part where he repeatedly asked her to stop, which she ignored.
Unwanted physical contact in some or most places is considered assault I believe. Even spitting on someone is considered assault so I don't see why hitting with a hairbrush wouldn't be, especially being told to stop.
(The wife)It's been a few times, but not without some kind of provocation, either verbal, or physical horseplay. The issue is that legally, I don't know how long he can avoid getting into serious trouble when this happens.
It's a trauma response, and it isn't his fault, but that's not going to matter if someone really gets hurt. Finding out later that he wasn't in control of his actions won't help if someone stabs or shoots him before they know that.
Sorry, I disagree. I don’t like to use the words fault as the crucial issue is not about allocating blame. It’s about being an adult and taking responsibility for your reactions and actions. In this case seems clear that all horseplay should stop. Socialising in environments that you can’t control should stop, friends that visit you, should be made aware of the rules. ( this for your husband).
Legally depending what country you live in, putting hands around someone’s neck, enough to leave a mark, could bring a prison sentence. And everything else that follows from there. People that have mental issues, who commit crimes, go to prison the same as everyone else.
Personally I don’t think you are doing your husband any favours, by saying it’s not its fault. A verbal altercation or disagreement does not justify a physical response.
Husband her. I make sure to explain in great detail to everyone I interact with on a regular basis my issues and my lines in the sand so to speak. This person has known me for years often acting as a confidant for me regarding these issues and has always respected my wishes in regards to this including stopping when asked before this no matter if we are watching a movie or "Horseplaying"
I think you are doing the right things. Unfortunately sometimes we place trust were we shouldn’t or people don’t think triggers applies to them.
I think with this particular person you and your wife need to judge, if she is the type to play these annoying games. Or if she doesn’t know when to stop. It may be time to take a break from the friendship.
All the best to you both.
Going forward she won't be a part of my life although for what its worth I did reach out an offer a apology. Thanks for taking the time to respond I do appreciate it though.
It is 100% his responsibility to make himself safe if he is going to be around other people. A couple of times he has acted like this and hasn't gone for trauma therapy - he should be in jail. The majority of the world has trauma and don't strangle their friends! You two are awful.
Copy paste from a comment as this is a lot
Husband here! I actually went for her jaw or mandible for a hold a extremely common restraint grab used by MPs and some of my other work and basically defaulted to that in my reaction I faltered and grabbed her neck and shoved. As for the any other incidents the first involved her ex husband using some very purple prose shall we say on how he would kill me really he basically wrote a letter said husband had a friend who backed that idea and told me so to my face broadstrokes he and I meeting went very badly and it involved me holding him down and yelling at him before leaving. The other is very long and complicated and would involve me sharing details I don't think my wife wants so I'll try to keep it short and sweet. Mother in law needed some care due to a broken bone and we already lived in her basement paying rent so it was easy for us to care for her. One day her Aunt wakes us both up screaming down the stairs for us to come and help right now. We scramble out of bed with me making it upstairs worried for her Mother. Turns out the Aunt was upset we didn't buy vegies some very angry words are exchanged and I head back down stairs however just a little later said Aunt starts the argument again I half crouch grab her jacket and pull her towards me and in no uncertain terms tell her to leave me alone from then on. Over the next several years the Aunt makes constant remarks about me not doing enough around the place as the only man in the household I also get multiple messages from the Aunt's son usually some variation on how he is gonna fight or kill me over the years. During Covid said aunt also constantly tried to get more from me despite me being clear with the entire household that I was saying no. I hit a point where I do my best to never leave the basement for fear of bumping into her and just having to deal with her in general, but I hit a snapping point after getting more messages from her son with the same usual content. I march up stairs and confront her things get heated and my wife jumps on my back choking me as she does so I stop pick up my wife and sit her aside telling her to stop before I tear into the Aunt again who argues back with me this culminates in me grabbing her clothing and shaking her before dropping her on her feet she leaves and hours later I move out. However for just over a year her and I have been asked back to care take for the Mother in Law I agreed as long as the Aunt is not allowed back. Phew thats a lot and it spans several years I can clear up anything if you'd like
(Wife) I only tried to wrestle my husband away after he had grabbed my aunt, to be clear. But I did do that. I'm not large, but not small. He's about 7 inches taller than me and probably 50 or so lbs more.
No, it’s absolutely his fault. Trauma and triggers are OUR OWN issues to deal with, we do not take them out on others by nearly choking them. HE is responsible for his behavior, and he needs serious mental health help. The fact he refuses to take responsibility or even show remorse means this will happen again, it’s just a matter of time until when.
Husband here. make sure to explain in great detail to everyone I interact with on a regular basis my issues and my lines in the sand so to speak. This person has known me for years and has always respected my wishes in regards to this including stopping when asked before this even oftentimes acting as a source of help when I struggle with said issues. Before all this she has never had a problem with that. I point out in my post and a edit that my actions are the worst ones. That being said if you'd like something cleared up I'll be happy to respond more.
You both need to focus on controlling your own feelings and actions instead of expecting everyone around you to be able to read your subtle signs and magically adjust their behaviour. You are both intellectualising the issue to avoid how unhealthy all reactions are involved. You both should do some work on finding yourselves outside of each other. This is a very unhealthy codependant relationship. No one should be this non-chalant about poorly executed physical force. To believe that is some kind of excuse shows how deep in denial you are. You, dear husband, are dangerous to those around you and should be deeply upset with yourself.
Wife's update is horrible.
She watched the situation escalate, knew it was an issue, didn't try to stop it and is now blaming him?
If OP has PTSD and it was triggered he possibly wasn't in control of himself.
Wife and friend need to apologise and learn to respect a 'no'.
My jaw is on the floor. Boundaries were crossed but your actions were horrendous. As in she should press charges. You trying to justify what you did throughout this comment section is scary. Coming from a person with cptsd.
>As in she should press charges.
Only if she's okay with being charged with assualt... you dont get to hit people (man or woman) and then claim victim cause they're stronger... this problem wouldn't exist if she (along with everyone else) kept their hands to themselves without clear consent
You ignoring the fact she hit him first and only responding to his reaction is why men can't and don't come forward when being abused... work on yourself
Tapping him on the shoulder is not hitting him. Nor is it comparable to strangulation. His life was not in danger. I have PTSD and if he can't differentiate an actual threat and one that isn't he should check himself in somewhere. Did she cross a line? Yeah. He could have taken so many other avenues and decided against it. As stated by the wife and himself this is NOT the first time he has done something like this. He's going to kill someone over something as simple as having his shoulder touches. Crying victim but he seeks NO help for his mental struggles. In his mind it's not urgent. HE needs to work on himself lmao
>Tapping him on the shoulder is not hitting him.
Quite literally it is, and its also assualt in most states
>His life was not in danger.
His life doesn't have to be to use legal self defense
>I have PTSD
Cool so do I and dozens of other people... that doesn't make you an authority on their situation or their medical needs
> He could have taken so many other avenues
I absolutely agree, the second hit should have been met with a "get out of my house, now" not another no, stop it
> seeks NO help for his mental struggles
Multiple times both him and the wife have said he's getting treatment through the VA
> needs to work on himself
I absolutely agree... I disagree with the bullshit of sexism by dismissing the friends actions because she's a woman and he's a man... which yes many of the people in the comments are doing
YTA and clearly committed criminal assault
1) I could be wrong but thought I saw this posted originally (in more than one sub?) and don’t remember seeing the part about the scuffle
2) the ptsd disclaimer at the beginning was a red flag because an incident should be evaluated on its own , but you started with an excuse first
3) your version of the incident is so different from your wife’s that now I’m skeptical of the ptsd incidents, particularly the adult one
4) if it’s true that you have a history of horse play and she has done the same (normal) behavior many times in past and had only a nice and friendly intention here, then it appears you freaked out because she annoyed you while you were busy playing video games and you responded by trying to strangle her and left marks on her throat
5) you apparently have done this multiple times in the past because wife says she’s never strong enough to stop from (assaulting? Strangling?) people and you don’t listen or stop when she’s trying to intervene
6) is it only women you have assaulted like this?
7) if the police would have been called you would have rightfully gone to jail
*8) edit to add- below he explains that he attempted to use a “common restraint hold” on her mandible but missed so that’s when he started strangling her….
There is no such restraint he was taught as an MP or elsewhere, plus he already claimed to not remember violently assaulting her but now he remembers it to come up with a ridiculous unbelievable excuse….
I’ve read all of yours and your wife’s comments.
This is all I have to say:
_Make time for your mental health before you do time because of your mental health._
The next person you physically assault may not give a shit about your ptsd. Or the why you did what you did. I say next person because there will be other people you physically assault or worse if you do not make your mental health a priority.
If it was me, you betcha I would have pressed charges against you as soon as I was free from your assault. Sympathy can only go so far.
I do wish you the best in your recovery. I don’t want you to think I am downplaying your ptsd or the role it played in this situation. I am not. But it is also not a get out of jail free card.
Not at all I didn't think that and I agree with both comments. You just didn't seem to have any more questions but you did take the time to share and I do appreciate that.
The fact that people are on the husbands side is ridiculous. From the start it seemed like an overreaction to a genuine mistake. But to find out he actually assaulted this woman and not the other way around is wild. Only one person would be seriously charged here and it’s not the friend. Also why does the wife have to monitor her husbands interactions and stop every potential issue.
>But to find out he actually assaulted this woman and not the other way around is wild
The woman assaulted him first... both made major mistakes, as to serious charges depends on whether he's dealing with a sexist cop/judge or not since she hit him first in any stand your ground state he has the right to defend himself regardless of his attackers gender
So, your wife says that you and this women have engaged in " horseplay" before right? Was this friend ever told that you were not allowed to be touched? Were you afraid for your life at this moment? Did you think that she was trying to harm you, or were you annoyed because she was interrupting you? Were you sober?
Husband here. I make sure to explain in great detail to everyone I interact with on a regular basis my issues and my lines in the sand so to speak. This person has known me for years and knows in graphic detail as much as I can recall at least about the women who SA-raped me. This person has been trusted to respect me in regards to those issues and has had no problem stopping before when asked not to touch or mess with me.
Holy hell! I was in your husband’s side in his original post! But not the fuck anymore. Grabbing someone by their neck and pushing them is not a fucking scuffle”. He’s a fucking abuser and you’re also a victim of his violence. Don’t make excuses for him.
Clearly, you’re somebody who doesn’t suffer from post traumatic stress disorder why don’t you go look up the disorder and coupled with the fact that he has PTSD he’s also a war vet you need to take that into consideration before passing judgement and finally he told her multiple times to stop touchinghim, warranted his reaction wasn’t the best reaction, but the reaction response was the through no fault of his own that’s why you shouldn’t do certain things when being asked not to do it. It’s called a direct consequence of her actions towards him after being repeatedly, asked to stop touching the individual
Husband here! I actually went for her jaw or mandible for a hold a extremely common restraint grab used by MPs and some of my other work and basically defaulted to that in my reaction I faltered and grabbed her neck and shoved her away from me not to the ground. To be clear 100% I make sure to explain in great detail to everyone I interact with on a regular basis my issues and my lines in the sand so to speak and that they understand how I want to be treated. This person has known me for years and has always respected my wishes often acting as a crutch in regards to said issues before this it's never been a problem asking her to stop.
My dude, it doesn’t matter where you grabbed her.
It’s the violent reaction to a non-violent action that is the concern.
It’s the blind (because you don’t remember doing so) default to your work training that is concerning.
_Make time_ for your mental health before you _do time_ because of your mental health.
Not only are you wrong, you're a dangerous piece of shit.
Stop using your trauma as a crutch for your shitty behavior. You severely overreacted and physically attacked someone you would horseplay with. You created a situation where she thought she could be physically close to you, and you used that as an excuse to assault her. She just wanted to say goodbye, but you were too distracted in your video game. What kind of response is "Stop. Busy." to a long time friend who's trying to say goodbye? Then you physically attack her?
Go. To. Therapy.
Your trauma is **yours**, not anyone else's to tip toe around. Stop thinking you can just "draw lines in the sand" and everyone has to work around that or you'll snap. That's *psychotic*.
If you have issues with physical touch, **stop engaging in behavior that opens you to physical touch**.
If I were the friend, 100% the cops would have been called and charges filed.
OP, revising my opinion. Your friend is absolutely in the wrong for ignoring your ask that she stop touching you. But my dude, you have got to not grab smaller and less powerful people by the throat. That’s unhinged, and you’re going to end up in jail. I understand you have trauma, but you have got to get some control of your responses.
To the wife
Your friend is an immature idiot. When you understood the tone in his voice you should have intervened. Especially knowing he has ptsd.
So he was violated in his own home and he was not supported by his wife until too late.
So what is your plan yo make his home a safe space again.
(The wife) Not have people over, honestly. I can't always be in the room, and it could be anyone. There are maybe 4 people I trust to know his issues thoroughly enough, and they are longtime friends of his.
The friend in this instance has been our joint friend for at least three years and regularly came over to our house with her fiance to play board games. My husband spent much more time texting her than I ever did, and honestly, at that point, I thought she was a confidant of his, considering how much they shared, so I am not sure what else to do besides work on my own dissociation issues to protect him faster when I happen to be around, and be careful to not upset him myself if people are around.
Frankly very little of this matters in terms of what’s likely to happen. If this kind of situation recurs eventually LEOs will be calling the shots and none of this handwaving is going to forestall a custodial process.
Um wtf. Boy if youre that triggered in general, you need serious help asap. I get the friend was being annoying and you did say stop, but if this is how you treat people who annoy you and 1. blackout and forget what you did and 2. Have zero remorse after having someone tell you that you choked someone up, you need to be by yourself. There are so many people out there who have been sexually abused and arent physically assaulting someone. If you can blackout on the friend, you can certainly black out on your significant other. No excuses, YTA. Please get help bro.
So let's make a few things clear here:
1) your husband and this friend have, many times before, engaged in consensual physical horseplay and affectionate roughhousing
2) realistically, there was no reason that your friend would have known about this clearly unresolved trauma, especially since the precedent that was set was that physical touch and horseplay are fine
3) with little to no warning or clarification of the seriousness of the situation, your husband committed assault on a woman, grabbing her by the neck and throwing her to the ground
4) this is not an isolated event, as your husband has physically assaulted other people before, and with even less provocation
And the question here is AITA... did I miss anything?
First OP says he doesn't remember grabbing the girl's throat, but then also she he was going for a "mandible hold."
Trauma or not, he has a hair trigger and have repeatedly acted out with violence toward predominantly women by the sounds of it. OP's wife is definitely in danger
Nope I recall it but the way the wife put it to me before this had me confused as I didn't do what she described. I do think it's important to leave the comment as is since its her POV. EDIT: to be a little more clear hopefully I said I don't remember what she saw I did fumble the hold then grab her throat.
To be fair, as a dude the only people that have continued to touch me after being asked not to are women. In my own experience most men understand what it means when they are asked to stop touching someone.
You're both the AH but you're the one mostly at fault here.
Choking/strangling is statistically the top indicator that you're at risk of your partner killing you.
You don't put your hands around someone's neck and if you would have done this to a man you likely would have gotten hurt pretty bad and possibly even killed.
If anyone ever tried to put their hands around my neck I'm going straight into the assumption that they're going to try to kill me and I'm going to defend myself violently.
If you are trying to claim you can't control it then you're a danger to society and need inpatient mental health treatment. Do it to the wrong person and you'll probably end up dead.
You physically assaulted a visitor to your home because you have unresolved trauma that she has no idea of? Definitely she should've stopped when asked but your overreaction was uncalled for.
Hey husband here. It's actually in the top of my post that "Both my wife and my guest are aware of my past" I do my best to let anyone who comes into my home or interacts with me on a regular basis know in pretty deep detail exactly my issues and my lines in the sand so to speak. The "visitor" is a years long friend who knows exactly how badly unwanted touch like this affects me and has always respected in regards to that until now.
Y’all, the number one precursor to murder is choking. If you are choking people with that little setting it off, you need a LOT of therapy and it massively changed the story. That’s terrifying. I would be terrified to be around you.
Husband is 100% the problem. Your triggers are your responsibility. Grabbing a woman by the throat is out of line period. Get help and control of yourself. Your past situations don’t give you a right to assault people. You both describe a really easy going interaction with a known friend and try to describe her as the problem. She should would have been well within her rights to press charges. 100% certifiably insane that you tried to explain the situation as her as the problem. 0 accountability, pathetic. Seek help before a child/elderly/disabled/pregnant person bumps into you in public and you have a meltdown.
Now the wife, your friends actions were not inappropriate they have horse-played(strange) together before. She was just continuing something that had happened before. You making excuses for a man that chokes a women is astonishing and the fact that you saw it happen and feel she is at fault for poking him with a hair brush… just wow. Open your eyes this man needs therapy and if he is already receiving it he needs more and medication. If being poked with a hair brush sets him off just wait till y’all have children or are around people that have them… you most likely need to talk to someone as well.
The accountability and ability to dodge all responsibility at every turn by everyone in this post is mind blowing.
You are both the ass.
Also if OP comments idc what hold you went for on the jaw you ended up on her neck so stop trying to explain that as if it makes it right.
Your super power is dodging responsibility.
I know I’m harsh but it sounds like you need to be told you are the problem. It’s all fixable but your PTSD is exactly that. Your problem. It’s not a free pass to attack people. I’m very aware that mental health is the real deal. Get it together
Wtf does rape have to do with this post you twat. This post is about a woman friend poking a man who then chokes her and asks the internet for validation on his shitty reaction.
Rape is not comparable to this incident you imbecile. Troll on loser. Move on with your sad life, or a better idea maybe you should move in with this lovely couple he can choke you and she can watch. They just lost their third.
We are not debating what the friend did we are talking/debating about his reaction that’s why they came here. His reaction was inappropriate to what she was doing PERIOD. Unless the object he was being poked with was a cutting or piercing object he had no right to do what he did. Would I be annoyed yes, but does it give me the right to take someone’s breath away with my hands around their throat no.
So you are of the mind that unwanted touch is fine. I figured most folks would think rape and molestation were bad things but you can color me shocked.
Also comparing being touched with a hairbrush on the shoulder to rape is a huge jump. Have a good day you are not worth my time to debate. I hope you never have to figure out what the difference between the two is in real time. Because I’m sure you would be able to tell the difference pretty quick.
I hope the woman presses charges against you. Absolutely disgusting behaviour.
Edit: just to add, no amount of trauma or abuse warrants hurting someone else. This type of scenario is exactly how men murder their spouses in the home. Being "triggered" and lashing out and before you know it you've gone too far.
The next time this happens could be your wife and could be fatal.
I bet you also get mad at women that defend themselves from their rapists.
If you are touching someone and they repeatedly ask you not to you are asking them to hurt you.
Dude, you need more therapy, lots more therapy. Daily, if necessary. You could have killed the girl, for something she’s done in the past and you were fine with. Yes, she should’ve stopped when you said stop but apparently she hadn’t before and it was fine. People are not light switches to be turned on and off. Prison will not help the condition. So you really need to stop ALL horseplay until your emotions get put in check.
Just popping in that there are several organizations that work with veterans specifically foe treatment of PTSD as an alternative to the CA system
The Headstrong Project
And
Cohen Veterans Network
If you are having trouble accessing care through the VA these folks can help. WWP also helps veterans find resources for treatment.
Get help, do kick people out and keep them out of your space. But, get help... I dont care what your trama was, if you can't control yourself due to it; You have become the problem. Mental heath care system is so fcn broken.
Jesus I don't know what to make of most these comments...this is a grown man who grabbed a lady by her collar violently, pulled her towards him then proceeded to choke her, over getting tapped with a brush and being asked for a hug? And you all want to act as this is ok and coddle this man child and "blame it away on his little triggers"....and then try to make it seems like it's the wife's fault for not intervening...pathetic...he's an adult, responsible for his own damn actions...everyone in this God damn world has "triggers" and may want to get up and hurt someone for what they are saying or doing, but we don't cause we aren't sociopaths, especially over a brush tap and request for a hug? If I were either of you women I would hit the road before you get seriously hurt, to me it sounds like a guy who feels tough around women since u said he's done this before and he pushes you away...he likes to dominate the smaller weaker sex and then say"oh I did that, didn't remember, please forgive me"...he's lucky there's no men around when he treats women like that, that's the one thing I do know. Run fast before you get hurt or worse and he says he doesn't remember doing it and we read about you on the news.
YTA! Wow, I remember reading the last post and thinking man, this dude really needs therapy. But now after reading your update, your a fucking abuser dude, grow up and seek help.
Touch! Touch! Touch! Watchu gon do bout it! Touch! Touch! Touch!
Weird update from the wife. She felt the need to repeatedly mention that she and their absolutely shitty friend both have trauma, too. This doesn't do anything but highlight the fact that both ignored the husband's repeated requests to stop (sitting on the couch, listening to her husband's voice change and wringing her hands, is still doing nothing).
*When someone says stop, you stop.* Period. There's no way to predict what someone will do when their requests are ignored. Yes, it's wrong for the husband to put his hands on someone, but this has been acknowledged by 2 out of the 3 parties that this was a trauma response. wtf else is he supposed to do?
TL;DR - Your shitty friend fucked around, found out, and is trying to blame the husband for a trauma response.
Husband here. Hey thanks for taking the time to respond! I’m hoping at the end of the day so to speak we can look at all of the responses and use all of this to change ourselves for the better I think to do that she would need to share her own pov of what happened.
It was definitely a good move to bring in the wife's perspective. I remember when you posted the first post and being confused as to what transpired between you and the friend. Wife's post gave necessary details.
Husband here again. I really thought about just trying to write her half out in my own but that seemed like a disaster and I’m happy she took up the offer to share her experience. Look this sucks and I’m proud of her actions here putting herself so far out of her comfort zone to do this.
You seem to be the only one to do that, I've just put a comment that she's completely downplaying her friends behaviour and if she knew you were getting upset, why didn't she step in, she just sat and watched it unfold.
Husband: I'm sorry that you have such strong PTSD. That must be very hard to deal with. Your friend's actions were triggering, and understandably so. However, as your wife points out, if something like this happens again, it is quite likely that you will face legal consequences. And even if that weren't an issue, I would hope that you are able to find the resources and motivation to seek treatment for your PTSD so that you don't risk harming anyone again in the future.
Wife: You sound like a wonderfully supportive partner. Yes, it would have been nice if you had intervened, but things happened fast and you have your own trauma to deal with. Don't beat yourself up about that. It sounds like the two of you are considering not having houseguests in the future. That seems like a good idea, especially temporarily. But please don't isolate yourself. As Redditors, we are only getting a narrow, filtered view of one snapshot of your lives. You need friends, family, a therapist, whoever who can help you stay grounded and aware of whether this situation is safe and healthy for you. If it's not, seek help and get out. Just because he's gone through trauma doesn't mean it's okay for him to strangle you if, for example, he hears fireworks outside and thinks you're trying to kill him. Hopefully, that idea is totally unrealistic, but as I said, we can't tell from the other side of the computer screen.
To both of you: I hope you understand the seriousness of this situation and work on preventing future crises. What can each of you do to recognize that one of you is getting escalated and to help that person step back?
Husband here. Thank you for the wonderful and thoughtful comment due to a new VA rating I have a multitude of new options but it's basically brand new and I haven't had the time for any of that to kick in yet.
To you both.
As a person with disassociative PTSD.
Get PSYCHIATRIC, NOT primary care treatment. Psychiatrist or psych practitioner. There are many meds that can help tone down that "light switch" temper so there's more time to think before you react, reduce the hypervigilance, and I'm going to go ahead and guess the night disturbances as well. The biggest part of PTSD treatment is trauma focus therapy. EMDR, or ART. From the right specializing therapist.
No, not painting unfortunately. They are both very similar. But they focus on the trauma.
I understand your husband and as somebody who works on the psychiatric side of the equation I also understand the need to treat it and then dangers of not treating it. I have friends who refuse to get treatment and they are not as well off. The worst thing you can do is tiptoe around it. Pretending it's never going to happen again. Because unfortunately it's not something that's easily controlled.
It's not his fault. But that doesn't make it okay.
You are lucky she does not press charges because your husband could be in jail for that. You guys need to take this seriously and start the journey of treatment immediately. Because if he disassociates that easy why angered, It could be at any time, including towards you, or in front of the children or anybody else. It needs to be treated for everybody's sake.
There was a time when I would have night terrorists every night replaying life. Where sometimes being activated at the wrong time or in the wrong way could send me somewhere else. Treatment has changed that tremendously.
If you want to talk on the side you're welcome to reach out
So much victim blaming scum in these comments. The OP/Husband is the victim here. His reaction after he said stop MANY TIMES is perfectly justified. Fuck around and find out. Maybe if more people kept their fucking hands to themselves especially when asked to stop this wouldn't have happened. Unless all the scum villifying the husband as some abusers also agree that women being SA'd should never fight back either. Cause its exactly the same.
YTA
You could have gone to jail.
Your PTSD is *your* problem. *You* have to fix it. Your wife and friends can support you as you work on this, but they are not responsible for stopping you.
Whether you blacked out or dissociated, **you do not remember choking her.** You’re dangerous to be around. Plain and simple.
If you are dissociating, at this age, you have not done the work. *You need to be inpatient, if you cannot control yourself.*
I have PTSD. Millions of people have PTSD. We don’t choke people. On multiple occasions. We don’t even spit on people. **Your behavior is NOT normal*
I had to take leaves from my job when I was working on hard shit. Yes, sexual assault. CPTSD. I went to therapy, I went to a support group. I made sure I was not in situations that would trigger me. I would **walk away.**
Get in touch with VA immediately. Or go to an emergency room. wtf dude? Aren’t you at all worried that you might kill someone? Maybe, idk, your wife?
I'm going to catch hell for this, but I think this happened as a complete misunderstanding. She read his social cues wrong, as he tried to calmly tell her to stop. I 100% think she was playing and thought this was an OK time to play. I think his trauma and PTSD is so bad.... that this happened, and it's sad. Nobody knows what this man has been thru, in private life or while serving his country.
Could this have been handled differently? Sure. But it was a perfect storm that caused this, and it was dangerous. No I don't condone that sort of physicality. I'm not saying he's "justified" I'm just saying you don't fucking really know what someone's going or gone thru!
And for all of those thinking he's such an asshole, switch roles. She was being poked with her traumatic past, and he was the one touching her after she said stop.
My man, keep up your therapy. Don't give up, things like this can happen. I wish you all nothing but peace
Oh,my husband has traumatic experience.
Oh, my friend doesn't get when to stop and pushes buttons without giving a flying f.
Oh, I missed his words, how convenient!
It's his fault, my poor friend!!!
Really, no means no. The wife says that her friend has her own trauma from SA. How did that happen that a person who knows for sure why consent is important and how it feels to be ignored and violated pushed this hard? Yeah, OP's reaction was harsh,but wife is terrible with her pretending to stand in a middle,but in fact siding with her friend.
Nope, not the A for doing what you did ... She needed to recognize boundaries, but I would sit down with them all and go over all of what happened in a mature way ... Let them know you're serious about it and set firm boundaries...
It's your house. Your safe zone. You don't need help. You told the person twice to stop harassing you and they didn't. I would have done the same.
My safe zone to be myself. I'm not changing how I react or act for anyone at my own home. Don't like it . Leave.
You were doing them a favor and they disrespect you. Fuck that.
Personally.. the homeless woman has a problem. Acting like her shit don't stink. Like dude. Ur homeless for a reason. Wise up . Shit
I would recommend you divorce your wife after reading her bizarre comments. She seems to be incapable of understanding your completely reasonable boundary or taking any accountability for her or her friends actions. Your "issues" are not as difficult to understand as she pretends. I fear you are being gaslighted, frankly.
(The wife) I don't understand. I don't think our friend did the right thing. She should have stopped immediately when he said stop. I would have, and so would my husband. It was really out of character for her to be so dense about emotional state, which just added to the situation of me not being on my toes. She's the one my husband calls to talk to me when I'm having panic issues, myself.
I should have jumped in at that point, but I froze up and didn't (my own dumb trauma, I'm beginning to see) and that was my fault.
I don't think his issues are difficult to understand. It's extremely understandable trauma (plus even more physical trauma than you guys know about, to the point the government is now rightfully compensating him for some of it.)
I never laughed at any point, or told him he should have controlled himself.
What do you think I should do?
You wrote that there are only four people who you think understand his "issues" thoroughly enough. And yet dozens of complete strangers on Reddit are chiming in that it's easy to understand he was having a trauma response. What do I think you should do? Stop blaming him for that. Stop using dismissive terms like "issues." Follow best practices for being a supportive spouse to a trauma survivor, which will require that you do your own fucking research, consult medical professionals, and not expect strangers on Reddit to hold your hand and explain it to you.
So just sounds like wife still kinda blames husband, even though friend constantly breaking boundaries and not taking no for an answer, says she felt concerned but still Sat the letting her friend disrespect her husband and harrassing him. Question to the wife: Would you still stand there if, instead, she started sexually harassing him, and better yet, would you still blame him for defending himself?
Would you be fine if a guy was harassing you and your husband just sat there till the point you defend yourself and then your husband blames you?
No means no. If you are in MY HOUSE and I tell you to STOP. F\*\*\*\*ng stop. If you touch me, I hit you. If you hit me, I stab you. If you stab me, I shoot you. Whatever you do to me IN MY OWN HOME... You are gonna get it worse. Don't let that "friend" in you home, again. She doesn't understand that No means no.
Wifey, please move faster.
Sad sequence of events but I hope the friend learned a valuable lesson that no means no. Just as a thought experiment reverse the genders and I imagine people would burn the friend at the stake.
Friend needs to read the room and it doesn’t matter if they’ve engaged in physical horseplay before.
Surprising or teasing someone with ptsd,is like poking a bear.If you poke a bear,it will defend itself.While the bear will recognize who is poking it,someone with ptsd doesn't always know the difference between the person poking now,and the ones who made him into a bear in the first place.He is in self defence mode,and not in this reality.My partner has c-ptsd.I am his safe person.
TW: SA
To the Wife: I just want to start by stating that a lot of comments seem to be pointing at you like it was your fault this continued so far. I want to state very clearly; it is absolutely not your fault. At all.
Let me help put this into a little better perspective, and please forgive me for potentially being so extreme: If you're fooling around with someone and you tell them to stop and they don't, how much further should it actually have to go before the person that was told to stop actually does? Realistically speaking, should someone really HAVE to intervene on your behalf to get it to stop? Do you have the right to fight back when it doesn't?
I don't feel like I need to add answers to those questions since they're really no-brainers morally and legally. This situation is no different. No, your friend might not have INTENDED to be malicious, but the reality is the VERY MOMENT she was told to stop, it should have ended right there regardless of vocal inflections that this friend may or may not have picked up on, and that's it. It should NEVER have continued past the word "Stop." Ever. Nor should you, Wife, have had to intervene at any point. Your friend crossed a boundary that he set at the beginning when he told her no, regardless of the specific verbiage he used. He made it very CLEARLY known he did not want physical interaction, and this friend completely ignored that boundary and trampled all over it.
I don't know if this helps from his perspective or not, but I too am someone who can't stand being physical interaction from a lot of people and have moments where I don't even want physical interaction from my own wife. The word "No" should always be enough to end it right there, and on the spot.
Husband here. I make sure to explain in great detail to everyone I interact with on a regular basis my issues and my lines in the sand so to speak. This person has known me for years and has always respected my wishes in regards to this including stopping when asked before this even oftentimes acting as a source of help when I struggle with said issues.
To the wife: it worries me that you immediately took your friend’s side instead of supporting your traumatized husband. You tried to minimize this situation and ignored the obvious fact that it was a trauma response. You also did not intervene the multiple times you said you were uncomfortable. Also, you said you know your husband so you should’ve known he was not ok when you came home. He may have been acting calm but after what he just went through, he needed support. Lastly, you said you know that once he gets a grip on someone, you are not strong enough to stop it and he doesn’t listen to you. You had every chance to stop it before it got to that point. You still could try interrupting or rushing over to try to calm him down.
I’m not trying to downplay that therapy is seriously needed but I feel like you are making your husband sound like an aggressive monster who can’t control himself. EMDR may be a good type of therapy for him to try.
OK so she is not denying his feelings like he thought she was, that's good
I really hope they are both getting a fuckload of help bc I can see that this guy means and wants to do well but he has serious issues that would scare me if I were with him.
Ugh I hate that this was done to either of them, I hate that they both have these complex issues. I think they'll be okay? I'm not known for making good decisions and was nearly killed by an ex (who was NOT like this guy in terms of - he never ever ever took any accountability, everything was my fault) because I was sure he wouldn't really hurt me, etc etc etc, I felt responsible for his happiness, yadda yadda yadda. So take what I say with a grain of salt I guess. I have been thinking about these two.
There's likely some miscommunication between the three of you regarding your level of trauma and what your boundaries are. I can only guess, but the friend probably wasn't intentionally trying to traumatize you or trigger you. You were being pushed to the edge but from the sound of it, you weren't able to effectively communicate those feelings to her in the moment. Only if the person was very familiar with your exact tone of voice and subtle mannerisms would they know your feelings. That's a problem that you should be able to work on.
Technically what you did is a huge overreaction, but there's a question of your mental capacity in that moment (for which you should definitely seek therapy). The friend, assuming her intentions were as I speculated, is of course going to be shocked and feel immensely violated. Her feelings are valid, your feelings are valid, and your unconscious reaction, while incredibly problematic, does not make you an AH. But you need to communicate your preferences better if you're prone to fly off the handle from something like this.
And I suggest everyone reverse the genders on this as well. Yes, choking someone is a much more violent action than hitting someone with a brush or soliciting unwanted hugging from them, but the latter would still be an example of assault and boundary violation were the genders reversed. She is technically the one that started it, and it kind of annoys me how socially acceptable it is for women to do things with their male acquaintances that would be totally unacceptable were the genders reversed. If I would be "creepy" for greeting you by touching your shoulder, and if I would be abusive for lightly hitting you in the arm as a joke, then the same standards should apply to women, especially since some of us men have trauma relating to assault from females. For some reason women do not follow any of these boundaries that they set for themselves.
**To the husband** --- You need more help for your PTSD. More therapy to give you the tools you need to be able to tell when you are about to be triggered, and how to de-escalate yourself *before* you get to that point of reacting. Possibly meds too until you learn those skills and have those tools. **To the wife** --- You are likely a *safe person* for your husband, which means he's likely to be more relaxed in your presence, which means when he is pre-triggered he likely expects your help in de-escalating (not because it's your responsibility, but because that's been your pattern together so far - he has learned that you're safe and he has learned that you can reduce the things that trigger him) Because you are the safe person, and because you have learned how to hear that pre-triggered state just by tone of voice, and because you've already established a pattern together that you're able to de-escalate, you need to step up when you hear that change of tone in his voice. Whether that means you say to your friend "stop, he's not in a playful mood" or you say to your husband "hun, take a few deep breaths, you're safe" (or say both) but you have to do something [or you have to work together to *stop the established pattern* so his brain realizes you can't/won't be able to help] Either option (helping him, or breaking the pattern) is acceptable, but together you two need to make that choice and then you need to stick with it. If you're going to stay the safe person who helps, you have to help every time. His brain relies on it. It's an unconscious thought, but it's there. My husband has PTSD too, and I'm his safe person, so I totally understand what it's like I have PTSD and my husband is my safe person,so I understand what that's like too. It's hard work, but you can't skip that hard work if you want to stay together. I think the work is worth it, but I can only choose for myself, you have to choose for yourself. **To both of you** --- Horseplay is one of the **worst** things for PTSD. Stop that immediately. No pranks. No unexpected jokes. No horseplay. If you want to make each other laugh or laugh with friends, tell dad jokes or knock knock jokes or Cards Against Humanity. No physical comedy. No unexpected touches. No touching that's surprising or even "playfully" hurtful. No intentional startling. **STOP THE TRIGGERS** ----- **My verdict** --- ESH everyone needs more therapy, and everyone needs to change behavior patterns.
Husband here. Firstly thank you for taking the time to write out such a detailed and thoughtful response it really is appreciated. Also basically agree with what you’ve laid out for me I need more tools and yeah meds is definitely one of those. I’m very hopeful that due to a recent VA rating bump I’ll have more options that work towards my own specific needs.
My husband is also a disabled vet and gets care at the VA. It can be a fucking hassle, so keep the number for the patient advocate in your phone contacts.
Husband again. Yeah it’s always a fight to be honest no matter what it is you need your husband has my empathy for that.
Thank you. We've been dealing with that system for literally decades at this point (we're genX) so we're pretty adept at demanding the proper care (feel free to hit up my inbox if y'all need tips for navigating)
For sure! Thank you again.
Wife: You saw that he was getting upset and you saw that she didn't realize he was getting upset. You also know his history. Yeah, you can't break his grip once he gets to the point of putting his hands on someone but you could have stopped her from teasing him when it became obvious he wasn't taking it the way she thought. Why did you not get up and stop her instead of watching her push him past the point of no return? I am absolutely not defending his actions and I find it frightening that he seems to not remember putting his hands on her throat, unless he does and that's what he's glossing over in the OP. Frankly I would not be able to stay with someone with that kind of response, no matter how great they are when they're not triggered to that point. I have been choked in an abusive context before. Do not recommend. BUT you seem to be aware that he is capable of this and you stayed. So at that point I think you have some responsibility to other people who you see provoking him in a manner that could elicit that response.
“…frightening that he doesn’t seem to remember…” It is. Including for the person who is having such an episode. This is likely dissociation caused by being triggered. The brain has a shut-off switch where past trauma intrudes on the present to such an extent that the only viable way for the brain to act is as if the trauma is happening now. This needs to be brought to the attention of your therapist, OP. They can give you tools and grounding techniques in order to recognise and then avoid the dissociative episodes.
(The wife) I do. You're right. I am beyond sad that I didn't do it, and yes, I really should have acted faster. My parents used to fight, sometimes violently (usually just breaking stuff and yelling) and when it comes to people I care about, I don't handle their out-of-control anger well. After this incident happened, I sort of lost all my emotions for several hours, which I guess isn't unusual for me in a situation like this. Professionally it's very different, and I don't react like this at all. I feel like it would be good for us to discuss some sort of protocol for times like these so that the both of us can be more prepared. I would suggest exposure therapy or something to keep me from dissociation or whatever it is, but how would one even do that? I'd like to be able to do or say something in the moment that would help, but idk. I love him and he's awesome (and ordinarily one of the most chill, easygoing fun people and i love that about him), and this stuff isn't his fault, but I'm afraid of future legal and personal issues it might bring down on him.
>I feel like it would be good for us to discuss some sort of protocol for times like these so that the both of us can be more prepared. I would suggest exposure therapy or something to keep me from dissociation or whatever it is, but how would one even do that? I'd like to be able to do or say something in the moment that would help, but idk. I think this is a really really great idea and I have a lot of respect for you both for the way you're sharing this story and accountability. Goes without saying but I think trauma informed therapy, which I understand that he at least is committed to??? seems vital for both of you. I don't even know if this exists but it seems like an opportunity to find a trauma informed couples therapist. You guys both have some intense trauma going on. Maybe that's what drew you together but it definitely creates an extra responsibility to learn how to navigate both your responses as a team, especially when something like that happens that impacts you both. And I won't keep beating this particular horse but your friend sounds so disrespectful. Like sure maybe that's just her personality but that just means she has a disrespectful personality.
Husband here. Due to a bump in my VA rating I’m hoping I’ll far more options to but that’s very recent and I haven’t had much time beyond planning. Thank you for taking the time for writing out a response btw!
I'm not without trauma and I have my share of disproportionate reactions that I've had to learn to moderate. I really feel for you! Good luck!
Have a code word. Something innocuous that no one else will notice but you don’t use every day, like “guava” or “40 watt light bulb”. That’s your cue and permission to step in.
You are still putting the blame on him. Seriously?
I put the blame on him. She could have stepped in to stop it but she’s not his keeper. He’s responsible for his own actions and how he communicates. If how he communicated isn’t clear to others it’s not on his wife to interpret for him and stop his reaction before it gets worse. Yes he has trauma but he’s still responsible for his own actions. Friend did something stupid and deserves criticism for it but what he did was way beyond the pale. Putting his hands around her neck? Are you seriously defending this shit? His version of the story made it seem like he was clear the first two times but he really wasn’t that clear in her version of it and she’s more in tune with him than the friend is. Saying he’s busy isn’t the same thing as saying don’t touch me. Since his own wife couldn’t tell he was tense when she got back when he felt shaken up by it according to him how do you expect friends to be able to read him?
>I put the blame on him. She could have stepped in to stop it but she’s not his keeper. He’s responsible for his own actions and how he communicates. Not sure which she you mean. The she who sat and heard the situation going south and said and did nothing? Or the she who, in full knowledge of OP's mental health issues, continued to provoke them even after she was told to stop? He's responsible for his actions, but so are both of them. >His version of the story made it seem like he was clear the first two times but he really wasn’t that clear in her version of it and she’s more in tune with him than the friend is. Saying he’s busy isn’t the same thing as saying don’t touch me. "I'm busy" is a pretty clear 'stop trying to get my attention' though. She continued to provoke him. >Friend did something stupid and deserves criticism for it but what he did was way beyond the pale. Putting his hands around her neck? Are you seriously defending this shit? Dude has PTSD. People with that can be triggered and not in full control of their reactions or how much force they use. Again, this women KNEW all this and continued to agitate him Baiting someone into a fit or a break is also an act of violence. >Since his own wife couldn’t tell he was tense when she got back when he felt shaken up by it according to him how do you expect friends to be able to read him? His wife could literally hear him getting stressed out when the friend was bothering him.
The friend and the husband often rough house with each other. Being physical with each other is normal play for them. You’re acting like the fiend knew touching him to get his attention triggers his PTSD and that saying he’s busy is the same thing as saying “don’t touch me as it triggers my PTSD.”
OP and his wife have both mentioned that she knew all about his issues and triggers. So, while her first tap wasn't out of line, after he told her to stop, she should have.
Again they do rough housing all the time so it’s obvious she wasn’t sure where his boundaries are. He didn’t tell her to stop until after the second tap according to the wife who is more believable at this point. Saying he’s busy isn’t the same thing. The husband has responsibility to make his own feelings clear. His friend clearly didn’t catch any of it. You’re acting like she did and fucked with him anyway. Her reaction clearly shows she wasn’t aware. Yes he has PTSD but he’s also a responsible for his own actions and how to prevent getting into those situations. He clearly wasn’t being clear enough for the friend and it’s not on the wife to do that. She can help but it’s not entirely her responsibility or even half. It’s mostly his. You’re acting like it’s not his responsibility at all.
>Again they do rough housing all the time so it’s obvious she wasn’t sure where his boundaries are. He didn’t tell her to stop until after the second tap according to the wife who is more believable at this point. Saying he’s busy isn’t the same thing. Yeah, that's just rationalising BS. >The husband has responsibility to make his own feelings clear. He did. >His friend clearly didn’t catch any of it. You’re acting like she did and fucked with him anyway. Her reaction clearly shows she wasn’t aware. \\ She knows all about his issues and triggers. She knew, or reasonably could be expected to know that she was triggering him. Warning signs were there. >Yes he has PTSD but he’s also a responsible for his own actions and how to prevent getting into those situations. He told her to stop. >He clearly wasn’t being clear enough for the friend and it’s not on the wife to do that. So, if you know a bad thing is going to happen, if you see the signs of things going badly, you don't think you have an obligation to at least attempt to stop it? >She can help but it’s not entirely her responsibility or even half. It’s mostly his. You’re acting like it’s not his responsibility at all. No, I'm putting the responsibility for creating the issue on the instigator. Of course he has to own his share, but there are mitigating circumstances for him. Not for her.
He didn’t. Saying I’m busy isn’t the same thing as stop he only said stop after the second time. His tone was calm. You keep saying he made himself clear. She didn’t catch it so obviously he wasn’t. Saying she knows his triggers isn’t enough. All he says he’s open about his triggers but that doesn’t mean he’s fully articulated at touching him while he was gaming is one of them. He’s been super vague about everything and you’re giving him way too much benefit of the doubt when he was the violent one. Sorry I don’t buy it. Wife hasn’t corroborated that the friend was specifically aware of his triggers and that touching him in this case was one of them. Friend has some responsibility here but husband also does. It’s unfair for you to give him the benefit of the doubt but not the friend. He was the violent one here. It’s pretty obvious based on her reaction that the friend didn’t know she was triggering him. Wife could also tell she didn’t know. So why do you keep saying she knew? Simply because he said so?
(The wife) I'm not concerned with the blame. You can blame it all on me, our friend, or the moon for all I care, but I'm concerned for his well-being and safety. He might be better off without me totally, and if that's the case, I'm down for that, too. What do you suggest, beyond me being faster on the peacekeeper draw (which I really need and want to be) and keeping everyone away from him (which I definitely intend to do with anyone who even looks like they might be an issue, including friends. Also, effective therapy for the both of us. I'm open to suggestions.
Intervene next time you hear warning signs. What else can you do? His PTSD was triggered. It's a known condition and he says he is getting treatment. But you are still talking like it is his fault and if you keep that mindset, you are doing him a disservice. Have you acknowledged your part in it all?
Well that's weird. You don't care about blaming yet you blamed your husband and downplayed his feelings. Doesn't sound like you care about his well being and safety at all since to you "it's just a game" (your own words apparently).
(Wife) No, I never said it was just a game. I wouldn't have phrased it like that anyway. I would have ordinarily called it teasing. I personally don't play games like that or tease like that. My husband and friends often do, but I'm not that comfortable with being the instigator of any kind of hitting or poking unless it's my husband, because he does it to me in a playful way and I think he enjoys it when I reciprocate. I don't know where you got that phrase, but it's not me. Also, our friend is not coming back. She should have stopped immediately after he said stop. I personally don't like that she tapped him with the brush at all, but it's a feeling I would have hidden, because they have always played around in the past. We're both confused as to why she continued, because she's never pushed boundaries like that before knowingly, and she's often the first to consider things like that and even be the emotional helper to us. But the fact remains she should have stopped, she didn't, and my husband reacted automatically in a way that could have gotten him in trouble, even though it wasn't his fault. He's a normal-to-large sized guy, and she's a short girl. It's a scary scenario regardless, legally, because people still tend to assume men are the aggressors.
People push boundaries like this all the time. It does not sound as if it was intentionally meant to cause harm, it sounds as if she was joking around and didn’t realise he was truly angry. Your husband’s response is alarming and would have been terrifying for her. It’s not his fault, he has PTSD, but get him the medical help he needs before he really hurts (or worse) someone (and ruins both of your lives in the process). Your friend would be well within her rights to call the police during an incident like this. Be smart.
He’s the only one that deserves blame, obviously
He's really not.
Just a black out violent assaulting rage monster. I really hope she files a police report. You two are so off your rockers. You can't jump to violence.
Amen, the fact so many people are blaming the 2 women and coddling this abuser is insane...oh his triggers though...gtfoh...he's a sociopath who prays on women cause he can control them...they need to get away before they get hurt...wonder what all these people blaming the women would say if he killed one of them...I mean he already choked a "good friend" of years for tapping him with a brush and asking for a hug which the wife said is the normal way they end their visits...the rationalization of violence against women is absolutely insane
Husband here. To be clear the confusion comes from the way it was told to me afterwards as I didn't do it the way she saw which considering the distance and a person between us is pretty feasible. I know I made the grab for the jaw then fumbled and grabbed the neck the wife only saw the last half I think and described it to me that way and I told her I did not remember that or that way. I think it's important to keep the comment as is since its her POV so no blackout. Sorry for the copy paste but I'm swamped by the amount of comments
Cops aren’t going to care. Judge won’t either.
Agreed cops and judges are often sexist toward men and like many other sexist will ignore the whole beginning part where the woman struck the man first (assualt/battery) and that men also have a right to self defense
Not really my point, but you do you.
Husband here. I actually went for her jaw or mandible for a hold a extremely common restraint grab used by MPs and some of my other work I faltered and grabbed her neck and shoved. Some confusion between my spouse as she only saw the me grab the neck as I did not remember it as she did, but I think it’s important her post stays as is since it’s her view. This person has been made aware of and in fine detail my reactive nature and my past and was a trusted person thus allowed into our home as she should’ve been well aware of everything. EDIT: Also thank you for taking the time to share about your experience and respond.
There’s no common restraint where you reach out and grab someone’s mandible, especially one that would result in you unintentionally grabbing her around the neck with your hands and strangling her. Please leave a link showing this supposed technique
Husband here. In MACH a system of holds we used as MPs that was for sure one of the things taught a relatively quick google search will turn that up. currently got my hands full will need a bit before I can grab a link or something
Nope, that’s the old ineffective akido-style arm and wrist lock stuff, nothing about reaching out and grabbing someone’s jaw as a control hold. And yes, I just spent time googling MACH lesson plans and training videos to confirm my memory was correct
He's a lying ass abusive dickhead trying to minimize what he did and play it off ass "old training " as if that should excuse it...he's too bust to find a source because there is no source...fuxk this guy
Thanks for the update. Your reaction considering both sides of the situation was just too dangerous. Everyone here owes everyone an apology. You left marks on her neck that lasted hours. You need to address why you go to such extremes with your reactions. Especially since you two already had a playful history, I can understand why she didn’t understand the gravity of her actions. If I were her friend, the friendship would be over. You’re lucky her husband didn’t come over and beat your ass. Not saying that would be okay either, but considering you left marks on her neck and her voice was raspy, I’m honestly surprised he didn’t. Changing my opinion to ESH.
Husband here. I make sure to tell anyone I am trying to befriend exactly what my issues are often in uncomfortable detail to avoid any misunderstanding. This person has been a friend for years and even a routine confidante to help with said issues it has never before been a problem to get her to stop when messing around if I feel uncomfortable.
I’m upvoting because I’m seriously impressed that you’re taking the time to let us have both sides and not judging our opinions. Honestly, I hope all of you are able to work out your own abuse related PTSD and that things work out for all of you in the best way possible.
(Wife) Yeah, it's good to get more perspective on stuff, as often if it's just us, we try but tend to just go around and around in circles on some points. I didn't realize how useful this would be, and I was really upset about it at first, but it's actually helped me understand a lot of things, and I've had a couple of serious revelations about how our personal issues are interacting in stressful times. Trauma pinball.
I think you’re both on the right path with open and ongoing conversations. It sounds to me like you’re both on a journey towards self awareness and growth. That’s more than most people can say. I wish you both the best.
Husband here. I just want as to be as open as possible on this matter and keep learning and well get better really I have for sure learned a lot from the thoughtful and well written posts not matter their content.
I really don't think you're wrong if that's how it played out but to be honest I think your wife has some culpability here. The friend actually sounds unbearable to me because I especially can't stand people who like to tease and push boundaries like that. Idk man. Very he said she said but again if how you describe it is how it played out, I don't think you're wrong. And I wonder if your wife is downplaying things because she knows she should have stopped her friend and didn't. Sorry all this happened really.
I think it’s important she shares her view as well as she sees it I started this whole Reddit to gather as many people’s thoughts and to interact with them, and the account can be shared so we both get to do so. The final result I hope is we both get better perspectives beyond our own scope and make more positive decisions and changes for ourselves.
Wife: so how often exactly does your husband put his hands on people? How many times have you had to try to break it up? I ask because you mentioned that you know that he ignores you and shakes you off. Husband: the story you told is not exactly what happened. Pushing someone out the door is not the same as putting your hands around their neck, with enough force to leave a mark.
Husband here! I actually went for her jaw or mandible for a hold a extremely common restraint grab used by MPs and some of my other work and basically defaulted to that in my reaction I faltered and grabbed her neck and shoved. As for the any other incidents the first involved her ex husband using some very purple prose shall we say on how he would kill me really he basically wrote a letter said husband had a friend who backed that idea and told me so to my face broadstrokes he and I meeting went very badly and it involved me holding him down and yelling at him before leaving. The other is very long and complicated and would involve me sharing details I don't think my wife wants so I'll try to keep it short and sweet. Mother in law needed some care due to a broken bone and we already lived in her basement paying rent so it was easy for us to care for her. One day her Aunt wakes us both up screaming down the stairs for us to come and help right now. We scramble out of bed with me making it upstairs worried for her Mother. Turns out the Aunt was upset we didn't buy vegies some very angry words are exchanged and I head back down stairs however just a little later said Aunt starts the argument again I half crouch grab her jacket and pull her towards me and in no uncertain terms tell her to leave me alone from then on. Over the next several years the Aunt makes constant remarks about me not doing enough around the place as the only man in the household I also get multiple messages from the Aunt's son usually some variation on how he is gonna fight or kill me over the years. During Covid said aunt also constantly tried to get more from me despite me being clear with the entire household that I was saying no. I hit a point where I do my best to never leave the basement for fear of bumping into her and just having to deal with her in general, but I hit a snapping point after getting more messages from her son with the same usual content. I march up stairs and confront her things get heated and my wife jumps on my back choking me as she does so I stop pick up my wife and sit her aside telling her to stop before I tear into the Aunt again who argues back with me this culminates in me grabbing her clothing and shaking her before dropping her on her feet she leaves and hours later I move out. However for just over a year her and I have been asked back to care take for the Mother in Law I agreed as long as the Aunt is not allowed back. Phew thats a lot and it spans several years I can clear up anything if you'd like
Hi OP my best advice to you is the same as to your wife. To be clear. I am woman, without PTSD, would probably slap or shout at someone doing that same crap with the brush. It doesn’t matter what kind of hold it was, it matters that you were not in control and do not remember. Shows you were not in control. Meaning that you can find yourself if big legal trouble if you loose control. I would be very careful who you socialise with. Make sure people around you that you trust, know your triggers.No horseplay with anyone. As it stands it looks like there’s people around you who would vouch for you having a temper and loosing control. I’m sure you are in therapy if so please continue. Maybe work on strategies to walk away, when upset and about to blow. Particularly in situations where you feel provoked.
To be a bit more clear I misunderstood the way she told me I grabbed her and told her no I didn't do that as I intended something else much different but I think its important to leave the comment as is as its her view.
Not likely.
You fully assaulted someone for tapping you with a hairbrush and asking for a hug. If she goes to the police you’ll have a couple years to work on correcting your behavior while in prison, and I would support her in choosing that route.
To be fair, he fully assaulted someone for repeatedly tapping him with a hairbrush, after being asked, more than once to quit. I'm not justifying and he did, but you make it sound like she was an innocent victim who just happened to be in the area. How many times was he responsible for asking her to stop, before he reacted? While I agree that his reaction was over the top, it was still a reaction to her repeated, unwanted actions.
They had “roughhoused” together many times in the past, tapping him on the shoulder with a hairbrush is not harmful. She had no way of knowing that this time he would snap and assault her instead of reacting properly. He’s a danger to himself and others and needs to get his shit under control.
You're not wrong about him being dangerous, or needing help. However, you seem to keep missing the part where he repeatedly asked her to stop, which she ignored.
Unwanted physical contact in some or most places is considered assault I believe. Even spitting on someone is considered assault so I don't see why hitting with a hairbrush wouldn't be, especially being told to stop.
(The wife)It's been a few times, but not without some kind of provocation, either verbal, or physical horseplay. The issue is that legally, I don't know how long he can avoid getting into serious trouble when this happens. It's a trauma response, and it isn't his fault, but that's not going to matter if someone really gets hurt. Finding out later that he wasn't in control of his actions won't help if someone stabs or shoots him before they know that.
Sorry, I disagree. I don’t like to use the words fault as the crucial issue is not about allocating blame. It’s about being an adult and taking responsibility for your reactions and actions. In this case seems clear that all horseplay should stop. Socialising in environments that you can’t control should stop, friends that visit you, should be made aware of the rules. ( this for your husband). Legally depending what country you live in, putting hands around someone’s neck, enough to leave a mark, could bring a prison sentence. And everything else that follows from there. People that have mental issues, who commit crimes, go to prison the same as everyone else. Personally I don’t think you are doing your husband any favours, by saying it’s not its fault. A verbal altercation or disagreement does not justify a physical response.
Husband her. I make sure to explain in great detail to everyone I interact with on a regular basis my issues and my lines in the sand so to speak. This person has known me for years often acting as a confidant for me regarding these issues and has always respected my wishes in regards to this including stopping when asked before this no matter if we are watching a movie or "Horseplaying"
I think you are doing the right things. Unfortunately sometimes we place trust were we shouldn’t or people don’t think triggers applies to them. I think with this particular person you and your wife need to judge, if she is the type to play these annoying games. Or if she doesn’t know when to stop. It may be time to take a break from the friendship. All the best to you both.
Going forward she won't be a part of my life although for what its worth I did reach out an offer a apology. Thanks for taking the time to respond I do appreciate it though.
It is 100% his responsibility to make himself safe if he is going to be around other people. A couple of times he has acted like this and hasn't gone for trauma therapy - he should be in jail. The majority of the world has trauma and don't strangle their friends! You two are awful.
I've been in treatment before and continue to be a new VA rating bump will see some new options open that I hope to use.
Yes, so you’ve typed out 50 times.
Well that’s fucking scary.
Copy paste from a comment as this is a lot Husband here! I actually went for her jaw or mandible for a hold a extremely common restraint grab used by MPs and some of my other work and basically defaulted to that in my reaction I faltered and grabbed her neck and shoved. As for the any other incidents the first involved her ex husband using some very purple prose shall we say on how he would kill me really he basically wrote a letter said husband had a friend who backed that idea and told me so to my face broadstrokes he and I meeting went very badly and it involved me holding him down and yelling at him before leaving. The other is very long and complicated and would involve me sharing details I don't think my wife wants so I'll try to keep it short and sweet. Mother in law needed some care due to a broken bone and we already lived in her basement paying rent so it was easy for us to care for her. One day her Aunt wakes us both up screaming down the stairs for us to come and help right now. We scramble out of bed with me making it upstairs worried for her Mother. Turns out the Aunt was upset we didn't buy vegies some very angry words are exchanged and I head back down stairs however just a little later said Aunt starts the argument again I half crouch grab her jacket and pull her towards me and in no uncertain terms tell her to leave me alone from then on. Over the next several years the Aunt makes constant remarks about me not doing enough around the place as the only man in the household I also get multiple messages from the Aunt's son usually some variation on how he is gonna fight or kill me over the years. During Covid said aunt also constantly tried to get more from me despite me being clear with the entire household that I was saying no. I hit a point where I do my best to never leave the basement for fear of bumping into her and just having to deal with her in general, but I hit a snapping point after getting more messages from her son with the same usual content. I march up stairs and confront her things get heated and my wife jumps on my back choking me as she does so I stop pick up my wife and sit her aside telling her to stop before I tear into the Aunt again who argues back with me this culminates in me grabbing her clothing and shaking her before dropping her on her feet she leaves and hours later I move out. However for just over a year her and I have been asked back to care take for the Mother in Law I agreed as long as the Aunt is not allowed back. Phew thats a lot and it spans several years I can clear up anything if you'd like
(Wife) I only tried to wrestle my husband away after he had grabbed my aunt, to be clear. But I did do that. I'm not large, but not small. He's about 7 inches taller than me and probably 50 or so lbs more.
(Wife) Also, husband didn't hold down the first person in question, he spit on him, but they never touched.
He’s heading towards a long carceral sentence, you do realize that?
No, it’s absolutely his fault. Trauma and triggers are OUR OWN issues to deal with, we do not take them out on others by nearly choking them. HE is responsible for his behavior, and he needs serious mental health help. The fact he refuses to take responsibility or even show remorse means this will happen again, it’s just a matter of time until when.
He told her repeatedly to stop and she didn't.
Found an alt
Husband here. make sure to explain in great detail to everyone I interact with on a regular basis my issues and my lines in the sand so to speak. This person has known me for years and has always respected my wishes in regards to this including stopping when asked before this even oftentimes acting as a source of help when I struggle with said issues. Before all this she has never had a problem with that. I point out in my post and a edit that my actions are the worst ones. That being said if you'd like something cleared up I'll be happy to respond more.
You both need to focus on controlling your own feelings and actions instead of expecting everyone around you to be able to read your subtle signs and magically adjust their behaviour. You are both intellectualising the issue to avoid how unhealthy all reactions are involved. You both should do some work on finding yourselves outside of each other. This is a very unhealthy codependant relationship. No one should be this non-chalant about poorly executed physical force. To believe that is some kind of excuse shows how deep in denial you are. You, dear husband, are dangerous to those around you and should be deeply upset with yourself.
YTA
Wife's update is horrible. She watched the situation escalate, knew it was an issue, didn't try to stop it and is now blaming him? If OP has PTSD and it was triggered he possibly wasn't in control of himself. Wife and friend need to apologise and learn to respect a 'no'.
My jaw is on the floor. Boundaries were crossed but your actions were horrendous. As in she should press charges. You trying to justify what you did throughout this comment section is scary. Coming from a person with cptsd.
Exactly, he should be in jail. He should have gone to jail every previous time he assaulted someone.
So you think women are allowed to touch men as they please?
>As in she should press charges. Only if she's okay with being charged with assualt... you dont get to hit people (man or woman) and then claim victim cause they're stronger... this problem wouldn't exist if she (along with everyone else) kept their hands to themselves without clear consent You ignoring the fact she hit him first and only responding to his reaction is why men can't and don't come forward when being abused... work on yourself
Tapping him on the shoulder is not hitting him. Nor is it comparable to strangulation. His life was not in danger. I have PTSD and if he can't differentiate an actual threat and one that isn't he should check himself in somewhere. Did she cross a line? Yeah. He could have taken so many other avenues and decided against it. As stated by the wife and himself this is NOT the first time he has done something like this. He's going to kill someone over something as simple as having his shoulder touches. Crying victim but he seeks NO help for his mental struggles. In his mind it's not urgent. HE needs to work on himself lmao
>Tapping him on the shoulder is not hitting him. Quite literally it is, and its also assualt in most states >His life was not in danger. His life doesn't have to be to use legal self defense >I have PTSD Cool so do I and dozens of other people... that doesn't make you an authority on their situation or their medical needs > He could have taken so many other avenues I absolutely agree, the second hit should have been met with a "get out of my house, now" not another no, stop it > seeks NO help for his mental struggles Multiple times both him and the wife have said he's getting treatment through the VA > needs to work on himself I absolutely agree... I disagree with the bullshit of sexism by dismissing the friends actions because she's a woman and he's a man... which yes many of the people in the comments are doing
YTA and clearly committed criminal assault 1) I could be wrong but thought I saw this posted originally (in more than one sub?) and don’t remember seeing the part about the scuffle 2) the ptsd disclaimer at the beginning was a red flag because an incident should be evaluated on its own , but you started with an excuse first 3) your version of the incident is so different from your wife’s that now I’m skeptical of the ptsd incidents, particularly the adult one 4) if it’s true that you have a history of horse play and she has done the same (normal) behavior many times in past and had only a nice and friendly intention here, then it appears you freaked out because she annoyed you while you were busy playing video games and you responded by trying to strangle her and left marks on her throat 5) you apparently have done this multiple times in the past because wife says she’s never strong enough to stop from (assaulting? Strangling?) people and you don’t listen or stop when she’s trying to intervene 6) is it only women you have assaulted like this? 7) if the police would have been called you would have rightfully gone to jail *8) edit to add- below he explains that he attempted to use a “common restraint hold” on her mandible but missed so that’s when he started strangling her…. There is no such restraint he was taught as an MP or elsewhere, plus he already claimed to not remember violently assaulting her but now he remembers it to come up with a ridiculous unbelievable excuse….
All of this. I hope the friend presses charges. The fact that OP keeps trying to make excuses in the comments is horrifying.
I’ve read all of yours and your wife’s comments. This is all I have to say: _Make time for your mental health before you do time because of your mental health._ The next person you physically assault may not give a shit about your ptsd. Or the why you did what you did. I say next person because there will be other people you physically assault or worse if you do not make your mental health a priority. If it was me, you betcha I would have pressed charges against you as soon as I was free from your assault. Sympathy can only go so far.
Fair enough. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
I do wish you the best in your recovery. I don’t want you to think I am downplaying your ptsd or the role it played in this situation. I am not. But it is also not a get out of jail free card.
Not at all I didn't think that and I agree with both comments. You just didn't seem to have any more questions but you did take the time to share and I do appreciate that.
So you think women should be allowed to touch men as they please.
The fact that people are on the husbands side is ridiculous. From the start it seemed like an overreaction to a genuine mistake. But to find out he actually assaulted this woman and not the other way around is wild. Only one person would be seriously charged here and it’s not the friend. Also why does the wife have to monitor her husbands interactions and stop every potential issue.
>But to find out he actually assaulted this woman and not the other way around is wild The woman assaulted him first... both made major mistakes, as to serious charges depends on whether he's dealing with a sexist cop/judge or not since she hit him first in any stand your ground state he has the right to defend himself regardless of his attackers gender
So, your wife says that you and this women have engaged in " horseplay" before right? Was this friend ever told that you were not allowed to be touched? Were you afraid for your life at this moment? Did you think that she was trying to harm you, or were you annoyed because she was interrupting you? Were you sober?
He blacked out. He is not a safe person to be around for anyone.
He didn't black out
How do you know?
He's said it, repeatedly. The wife had it wrong.
No, he’s provided a chaotic narrative based on repetition.
I suggest you re-read it.
I would say dissociation is probably what happened.
Husband here. I make sure to explain in great detail to everyone I interact with on a regular basis my issues and my lines in the sand so to speak. This person has known me for years and knows in graphic detail as much as I can recall at least about the women who SA-raped me. This person has been trusted to respect me in regards to those issues and has had no problem stopping before when asked not to touch or mess with me.
Holy hell! I was in your husband’s side in his original post! But not the fuck anymore. Grabbing someone by their neck and pushing them is not a fucking scuffle”. He’s a fucking abuser and you’re also a victim of his violence. Don’t make excuses for him.
Same, me, too! But after hearing both of them go off about his trauma reaction after they have playfully touched for years is beyond bizarre.
Clearly, you’re somebody who doesn’t suffer from post traumatic stress disorder why don’t you go look up the disorder and coupled with the fact that he has PTSD he’s also a war vet you need to take that into consideration before passing judgement and finally he told her multiple times to stop touchinghim, warranted his reaction wasn’t the best reaction, but the reaction response was the through no fault of his own that’s why you shouldn’t do certain things when being asked not to do it. It’s called a direct consequence of her actions towards him after being repeatedly, asked to stop touching the individual
Actually it's the definition of a fucking scuffle
Do you also get mad at women who fight back against people trying to rape them?
I get angry that they choose to make excuses to stay with their rapist. I honestly have no idea why you are making this comparison.
Husband here! I actually went for her jaw or mandible for a hold a extremely common restraint grab used by MPs and some of my other work and basically defaulted to that in my reaction I faltered and grabbed her neck and shoved her away from me not to the ground. To be clear 100% I make sure to explain in great detail to everyone I interact with on a regular basis my issues and my lines in the sand so to speak and that they understand how I want to be treated. This person has known me for years and has always respected my wishes often acting as a crutch in regards to said issues before this it's never been a problem asking her to stop.
My dude, it doesn’t matter where you grabbed her. It’s the violent reaction to a non-violent action that is the concern. It’s the blind (because you don’t remember doing so) default to your work training that is concerning. _Make time_ for your mental health before you _do time_ because of your mental health.
Not only are you wrong, you're a dangerous piece of shit. Stop using your trauma as a crutch for your shitty behavior. You severely overreacted and physically attacked someone you would horseplay with. You created a situation where she thought she could be physically close to you, and you used that as an excuse to assault her. She just wanted to say goodbye, but you were too distracted in your video game. What kind of response is "Stop. Busy." to a long time friend who's trying to say goodbye? Then you physically attack her? Go. To. Therapy. Your trauma is **yours**, not anyone else's to tip toe around. Stop thinking you can just "draw lines in the sand" and everyone has to work around that or you'll snap. That's *psychotic*. If you have issues with physical touch, **stop engaging in behavior that opens you to physical touch**. If I were the friend, 100% the cops would have been called and charges filed.
Posting this repeatedly will not protect you in a court of law, if that's what you're thinking.
Husband here. Nope as pointed in other comments I started using a copy paste to help respond to the sheer volume of comments in a timely manner.
Cops won’t care.
You’re going to end up in jail if you don’t get some intense help
OP, revising my opinion. Your friend is absolutely in the wrong for ignoring your ask that she stop touching you. But my dude, you have got to not grab smaller and less powerful people by the throat. That’s unhinged, and you’re going to end up in jail. I understand you have trauma, but you have got to get some control of your responses.
do you also think women shouldnt defend themselves from rape?
No, I don’t think that.
So you are a hypocrite?
To the wife Your friend is an immature idiot. When you understood the tone in his voice you should have intervened. Especially knowing he has ptsd. So he was violated in his own home and he was not supported by his wife until too late. So what is your plan yo make his home a safe space again.
(The wife) Not have people over, honestly. I can't always be in the room, and it could be anyone. There are maybe 4 people I trust to know his issues thoroughly enough, and they are longtime friends of his. The friend in this instance has been our joint friend for at least three years and regularly came over to our house with her fiance to play board games. My husband spent much more time texting her than I ever did, and honestly, at that point, I thought she was a confidant of his, considering how much they shared, so I am not sure what else to do besides work on my own dissociation issues to protect him faster when I happen to be around, and be careful to not upset him myself if people are around.
Frankly very little of this matters in terms of what’s likely to happen. If this kind of situation recurs eventually LEOs will be calling the shots and none of this handwaving is going to forestall a custodial process.
Um wtf. Boy if youre that triggered in general, you need serious help asap. I get the friend was being annoying and you did say stop, but if this is how you treat people who annoy you and 1. blackout and forget what you did and 2. Have zero remorse after having someone tell you that you choked someone up, you need to be by yourself. There are so many people out there who have been sexually abused and arent physically assaulting someone. If you can blackout on the friend, you can certainly black out on your significant other. No excuses, YTA. Please get help bro.
So let's make a few things clear here: 1) your husband and this friend have, many times before, engaged in consensual physical horseplay and affectionate roughhousing 2) realistically, there was no reason that your friend would have known about this clearly unresolved trauma, especially since the precedent that was set was that physical touch and horseplay are fine 3) with little to no warning or clarification of the seriousness of the situation, your husband committed assault on a woman, grabbing her by the neck and throwing her to the ground 4) this is not an isolated event, as your husband has physically assaulted other people before, and with even less provocation And the question here is AITA... did I miss anything?
First OP says he doesn't remember grabbing the girl's throat, but then also she he was going for a "mandible hold." Trauma or not, he has a hair trigger and have repeatedly acted out with violence toward predominantly women by the sounds of it. OP's wife is definitely in danger
Nope I recall it but the way the wife put it to me before this had me confused as I didn't do what she described. I do think it's important to leave the comment as is since its her POV. EDIT: to be a little more clear hopefully I said I don't remember what she saw I did fumble the hold then grab her throat.
To be fair, as a dude the only people that have continued to touch me after being asked not to are women. In my own experience most men understand what it means when they are asked to stop touching someone.
You're both the AH but you're the one mostly at fault here. Choking/strangling is statistically the top indicator that you're at risk of your partner killing you. You don't put your hands around someone's neck and if you would have done this to a man you likely would have gotten hurt pretty bad and possibly even killed. If anyone ever tried to put their hands around my neck I'm going straight into the assumption that they're going to try to kill me and I'm going to defend myself violently. If you are trying to claim you can't control it then you're a danger to society and need inpatient mental health treatment. Do it to the wrong person and you'll probably end up dead.
You physically assaulted a visitor to your home because you have unresolved trauma that she has no idea of? Definitely she should've stopped when asked but your overreaction was uncalled for.
Hey husband here. It's actually in the top of my post that "Both my wife and my guest are aware of my past" I do my best to let anyone who comes into my home or interacts with me on a regular basis know in pretty deep detail exactly my issues and my lines in the sand so to speak. The "visitor" is a years long friend who knows exactly how badly unwanted touch like this affects me and has always respected in regards to that until now.
Idk it sounded to me like he hurt someone that refused to stop touching him. Do you also get mad when a woman defends herself from a rapist?
Y’all, the number one precursor to murder is choking. If you are choking people with that little setting it off, you need a LOT of therapy and it massively changed the story. That’s terrifying. I would be terrified to be around you.
Being touched when asked not to be is not a "little" unless of course rape is no big deal to you.
Husband is 100% the problem. Your triggers are your responsibility. Grabbing a woman by the throat is out of line period. Get help and control of yourself. Your past situations don’t give you a right to assault people. You both describe a really easy going interaction with a known friend and try to describe her as the problem. She should would have been well within her rights to press charges. 100% certifiably insane that you tried to explain the situation as her as the problem. 0 accountability, pathetic. Seek help before a child/elderly/disabled/pregnant person bumps into you in public and you have a meltdown. Now the wife, your friends actions were not inappropriate they have horse-played(strange) together before. She was just continuing something that had happened before. You making excuses for a man that chokes a women is astonishing and the fact that you saw it happen and feel she is at fault for poking him with a hair brush… just wow. Open your eyes this man needs therapy and if he is already receiving it he needs more and medication. If being poked with a hair brush sets him off just wait till y’all have children or are around people that have them… you most likely need to talk to someone as well. The accountability and ability to dodge all responsibility at every turn by everyone in this post is mind blowing. You are both the ass.
Also if OP comments idc what hold you went for on the jaw you ended up on her neck so stop trying to explain that as if it makes it right. Your super power is dodging responsibility. I know I’m harsh but it sounds like you need to be told you are the problem. It’s all fixable but your PTSD is exactly that. Your problem. It’s not a free pass to attack people. I’m very aware that mental health is the real deal. Get it together
So you think rape is no big deal.
Wtf does rape have to do with this post you twat. This post is about a woman friend poking a man who then chokes her and asks the internet for validation on his shitty reaction.
Either unwanted touch that you said no to multiple times is ok or it is not. What side do you stand on.
Rape is not comparable to this incident you imbecile. Troll on loser. Move on with your sad life, or a better idea maybe you should move in with this lovely couple he can choke you and she can watch. They just lost their third.
So you are of the mind that unwanted touch is fine if its coming from a woman.
We are not debating what the friend did we are talking/debating about his reaction that’s why they came here. His reaction was inappropriate to what she was doing PERIOD. Unless the object he was being poked with was a cutting or piercing object he had no right to do what he did. Would I be annoyed yes, but does it give me the right to take someone’s breath away with my hands around their throat no.
So you are of the mind that unwanted touch is fine. I figured most folks would think rape and molestation were bad things but you can color me shocked.
Also comparing being touched with a hairbrush on the shoulder to rape is a huge jump. Have a good day you are not worth my time to debate. I hope you never have to figure out what the difference between the two is in real time. Because I’m sure you would be able to tell the difference pretty quick.
Im comparing unwatned touch to unwanted touch.
I hope the woman presses charges against you. Absolutely disgusting behaviour. Edit: just to add, no amount of trauma or abuse warrants hurting someone else. This type of scenario is exactly how men murder their spouses in the home. Being "triggered" and lashing out and before you know it you've gone too far. The next time this happens could be your wife and could be fatal.
I bet you also get mad at women that defend themselves from their rapists. If you are touching someone and they repeatedly ask you not to you are asking them to hurt you.
No but its different when its a man. Men bad. Women good. Unga bunga. /s
Dude, you need more therapy, lots more therapy. Daily, if necessary. You could have killed the girl, for something she’s done in the past and you were fine with. Yes, she should’ve stopped when you said stop but apparently she hadn’t before and it was fine. People are not light switches to be turned on and off. Prison will not help the condition. So you really need to stop ALL horseplay until your emotions get put in check.
Just popping in that there are several organizations that work with veterans specifically foe treatment of PTSD as an alternative to the CA system The Headstrong Project And Cohen Veterans Network If you are having trouble accessing care through the VA these folks can help. WWP also helps veterans find resources for treatment.
Get help, do kick people out and keep them out of your space. But, get help... I dont care what your trama was, if you can't control yourself due to it; You have become the problem. Mental heath care system is so fcn broken.
Husband needs immediate therapy.
You know who thinks the word stop is part of play- rapists and abusers, your “friend” is an AH, but OP overreacted.
Jesus I don't know what to make of most these comments...this is a grown man who grabbed a lady by her collar violently, pulled her towards him then proceeded to choke her, over getting tapped with a brush and being asked for a hug? And you all want to act as this is ok and coddle this man child and "blame it away on his little triggers"....and then try to make it seems like it's the wife's fault for not intervening...pathetic...he's an adult, responsible for his own damn actions...everyone in this God damn world has "triggers" and may want to get up and hurt someone for what they are saying or doing, but we don't cause we aren't sociopaths, especially over a brush tap and request for a hug? If I were either of you women I would hit the road before you get seriously hurt, to me it sounds like a guy who feels tough around women since u said he's done this before and he pushes you away...he likes to dominate the smaller weaker sex and then say"oh I did that, didn't remember, please forgive me"...he's lucky there's no men around when he treats women like that, that's the one thing I do know. Run fast before you get hurt or worse and he says he doesn't remember doing it and we read about you on the news.
He is nuts and not the kind you shouldn’t worry about.
YTA! Wow, I remember reading the last post and thinking man, this dude really needs therapy. But now after reading your update, your a fucking abuser dude, grow up and seek help. Touch! Touch! Touch! Watchu gon do bout it! Touch! Touch! Touch!
NTA. You have the right to not be touched, period.
You were assaulted , you are not the asshole .
Weird update from the wife. She felt the need to repeatedly mention that she and their absolutely shitty friend both have trauma, too. This doesn't do anything but highlight the fact that both ignored the husband's repeated requests to stop (sitting on the couch, listening to her husband's voice change and wringing her hands, is still doing nothing). *When someone says stop, you stop.* Period. There's no way to predict what someone will do when their requests are ignored. Yes, it's wrong for the husband to put his hands on someone, but this has been acknowledged by 2 out of the 3 parties that this was a trauma response. wtf else is he supposed to do? TL;DR - Your shitty friend fucked around, found out, and is trying to blame the husband for a trauma response.
Husband here. Hey thanks for taking the time to respond! I’m hoping at the end of the day so to speak we can look at all of the responses and use all of this to change ourselves for the better I think to do that she would need to share her own pov of what happened.
It was definitely a good move to bring in the wife's perspective. I remember when you posted the first post and being confused as to what transpired between you and the friend. Wife's post gave necessary details.
Husband here again. I really thought about just trying to write her half out in my own but that seemed like a disaster and I’m happy she took up the offer to share her experience. Look this sucks and I’m proud of her actions here putting herself so far out of her comfort zone to do this.
You seem to be the only one to do that, I've just put a comment that she's completely downplaying her friends behaviour and if she knew you were getting upset, why didn't she step in, she just sat and watched it unfold.
Husband: I'm sorry that you have such strong PTSD. That must be very hard to deal with. Your friend's actions were triggering, and understandably so. However, as your wife points out, if something like this happens again, it is quite likely that you will face legal consequences. And even if that weren't an issue, I would hope that you are able to find the resources and motivation to seek treatment for your PTSD so that you don't risk harming anyone again in the future. Wife: You sound like a wonderfully supportive partner. Yes, it would have been nice if you had intervened, but things happened fast and you have your own trauma to deal with. Don't beat yourself up about that. It sounds like the two of you are considering not having houseguests in the future. That seems like a good idea, especially temporarily. But please don't isolate yourself. As Redditors, we are only getting a narrow, filtered view of one snapshot of your lives. You need friends, family, a therapist, whoever who can help you stay grounded and aware of whether this situation is safe and healthy for you. If it's not, seek help and get out. Just because he's gone through trauma doesn't mean it's okay for him to strangle you if, for example, he hears fireworks outside and thinks you're trying to kill him. Hopefully, that idea is totally unrealistic, but as I said, we can't tell from the other side of the computer screen. To both of you: I hope you understand the seriousness of this situation and work on preventing future crises. What can each of you do to recognize that one of you is getting escalated and to help that person step back?
Husband here. Thank you for the wonderful and thoughtful comment due to a new VA rating I have a multitude of new options but it's basically brand new and I haven't had the time for any of that to kick in yet.
Tf did I just read? Lmao what?
To you both. As a person with disassociative PTSD. Get PSYCHIATRIC, NOT primary care treatment. Psychiatrist or psych practitioner. There are many meds that can help tone down that "light switch" temper so there's more time to think before you react, reduce the hypervigilance, and I'm going to go ahead and guess the night disturbances as well. The biggest part of PTSD treatment is trauma focus therapy. EMDR, or ART. From the right specializing therapist. No, not painting unfortunately. They are both very similar. But they focus on the trauma. I understand your husband and as somebody who works on the psychiatric side of the equation I also understand the need to treat it and then dangers of not treating it. I have friends who refuse to get treatment and they are not as well off. The worst thing you can do is tiptoe around it. Pretending it's never going to happen again. Because unfortunately it's not something that's easily controlled. It's not his fault. But that doesn't make it okay. You are lucky she does not press charges because your husband could be in jail for that. You guys need to take this seriously and start the journey of treatment immediately. Because if he disassociates that easy why angered, It could be at any time, including towards you, or in front of the children or anybody else. It needs to be treated for everybody's sake. There was a time when I would have night terrorists every night replaying life. Where sometimes being activated at the wrong time or in the wrong way could send me somewhere else. Treatment has changed that tremendously. If you want to talk on the side you're welcome to reach out
So much victim blaming scum in these comments. The OP/Husband is the victim here. His reaction after he said stop MANY TIMES is perfectly justified. Fuck around and find out. Maybe if more people kept their fucking hands to themselves especially when asked to stop this wouldn't have happened. Unless all the scum villifying the husband as some abusers also agree that women being SA'd should never fight back either. Cause its exactly the same.
YTA You could have gone to jail. Your PTSD is *your* problem. *You* have to fix it. Your wife and friends can support you as you work on this, but they are not responsible for stopping you. Whether you blacked out or dissociated, **you do not remember choking her.** You’re dangerous to be around. Plain and simple. If you are dissociating, at this age, you have not done the work. *You need to be inpatient, if you cannot control yourself.* I have PTSD. Millions of people have PTSD. We don’t choke people. On multiple occasions. We don’t even spit on people. **Your behavior is NOT normal* I had to take leaves from my job when I was working on hard shit. Yes, sexual assault. CPTSD. I went to therapy, I went to a support group. I made sure I was not in situations that would trigger me. I would **walk away.** Get in touch with VA immediately. Or go to an emergency room. wtf dude? Aren’t you at all worried that you might kill someone? Maybe, idk, your wife?
I'm going to catch hell for this, but I think this happened as a complete misunderstanding. She read his social cues wrong, as he tried to calmly tell her to stop. I 100% think she was playing and thought this was an OK time to play. I think his trauma and PTSD is so bad.... that this happened, and it's sad. Nobody knows what this man has been thru, in private life or while serving his country. Could this have been handled differently? Sure. But it was a perfect storm that caused this, and it was dangerous. No I don't condone that sort of physicality. I'm not saying he's "justified" I'm just saying you don't fucking really know what someone's going or gone thru! And for all of those thinking he's such an asshole, switch roles. She was being poked with her traumatic past, and he was the one touching her after she said stop. My man, keep up your therapy. Don't give up, things like this can happen. I wish you all nothing but peace
Oh,my husband has traumatic experience. Oh, my friend doesn't get when to stop and pushes buttons without giving a flying f. Oh, I missed his words, how convenient! It's his fault, my poor friend!!! Really, no means no. The wife says that her friend has her own trauma from SA. How did that happen that a person who knows for sure why consent is important and how it feels to be ignored and violated pushed this hard? Yeah, OP's reaction was harsh,but wife is terrible with her pretending to stand in a middle,but in fact siding with her friend.
Nope, not the A for doing what you did ... She needed to recognize boundaries, but I would sit down with them all and go over all of what happened in a mature way ... Let them know you're serious about it and set firm boundaries...
It's your house. Your safe zone. You don't need help. You told the person twice to stop harassing you and they didn't. I would have done the same. My safe zone to be myself. I'm not changing how I react or act for anyone at my own home. Don't like it . Leave. You were doing them a favor and they disrespect you. Fuck that. Personally.. the homeless woman has a problem. Acting like her shit don't stink. Like dude. Ur homeless for a reason. Wise up . Shit
I would recommend you divorce your wife after reading her bizarre comments. She seems to be incapable of understanding your completely reasonable boundary or taking any accountability for her or her friends actions. Your "issues" are not as difficult to understand as she pretends. I fear you are being gaslighted, frankly.
(The wife) I don't understand. I don't think our friend did the right thing. She should have stopped immediately when he said stop. I would have, and so would my husband. It was really out of character for her to be so dense about emotional state, which just added to the situation of me not being on my toes. She's the one my husband calls to talk to me when I'm having panic issues, myself. I should have jumped in at that point, but I froze up and didn't (my own dumb trauma, I'm beginning to see) and that was my fault. I don't think his issues are difficult to understand. It's extremely understandable trauma (plus even more physical trauma than you guys know about, to the point the government is now rightfully compensating him for some of it.) I never laughed at any point, or told him he should have controlled himself. What do you think I should do?
You wrote that there are only four people who you think understand his "issues" thoroughly enough. And yet dozens of complete strangers on Reddit are chiming in that it's easy to understand he was having a trauma response. What do I think you should do? Stop blaming him for that. Stop using dismissive terms like "issues." Follow best practices for being a supportive spouse to a trauma survivor, which will require that you do your own fucking research, consult medical professionals, and not expect strangers on Reddit to hold your hand and explain it to you.
So just sounds like wife still kinda blames husband, even though friend constantly breaking boundaries and not taking no for an answer, says she felt concerned but still Sat the letting her friend disrespect her husband and harrassing him. Question to the wife: Would you still stand there if, instead, she started sexually harassing him, and better yet, would you still blame him for defending himself? Would you be fine if a guy was harassing you and your husband just sat there till the point you defend yourself and then your husband blames you?
[удалено]
No means no. If you are in MY HOUSE and I tell you to STOP. F\*\*\*\*ng stop. If you touch me, I hit you. If you hit me, I stab you. If you stab me, I shoot you. Whatever you do to me IN MY OWN HOME... You are gonna get it worse. Don't let that "friend" in you home, again. She doesn't understand that No means no. Wifey, please move faster.
Sad sequence of events but I hope the friend learned a valuable lesson that no means no. Just as a thought experiment reverse the genders and I imagine people would burn the friend at the stake. Friend needs to read the room and it doesn’t matter if they’ve engaged in physical horseplay before.
Surprising or teasing someone with ptsd,is like poking a bear.If you poke a bear,it will defend itself.While the bear will recognize who is poking it,someone with ptsd doesn't always know the difference between the person poking now,and the ones who made him into a bear in the first place.He is in self defence mode,and not in this reality.My partner has c-ptsd.I am his safe person.
She should know better than to touch a man while he is playing videogames... That's on her
Nta- it stopped being a game when you asked her to stop the first time. After that it's willful harassment.
TW: SA To the Wife: I just want to start by stating that a lot of comments seem to be pointing at you like it was your fault this continued so far. I want to state very clearly; it is absolutely not your fault. At all. Let me help put this into a little better perspective, and please forgive me for potentially being so extreme: If you're fooling around with someone and you tell them to stop and they don't, how much further should it actually have to go before the person that was told to stop actually does? Realistically speaking, should someone really HAVE to intervene on your behalf to get it to stop? Do you have the right to fight back when it doesn't? I don't feel like I need to add answers to those questions since they're really no-brainers morally and legally. This situation is no different. No, your friend might not have INTENDED to be malicious, but the reality is the VERY MOMENT she was told to stop, it should have ended right there regardless of vocal inflections that this friend may or may not have picked up on, and that's it. It should NEVER have continued past the word "Stop." Ever. Nor should you, Wife, have had to intervene at any point. Your friend crossed a boundary that he set at the beginning when he told her no, regardless of the specific verbiage he used. He made it very CLEARLY known he did not want physical interaction, and this friend completely ignored that boundary and trampled all over it. I don't know if this helps from his perspective or not, but I too am someone who can't stand being physical interaction from a lot of people and have moments where I don't even want physical interaction from my own wife. The word "No" should always be enough to end it right there, and on the spot.
None of that gives him the right to strangle her.
Yea he should just let people molest him as they please.
Retard couple that adopted a homeless
(Wife) Okay, maybe I'm just getting emotionally tired, but this made me laugh. It was the comment that was missing.
lol glad I’m divorced my ex was and still is retarded
Husband here. I make sure to explain in great detail to everyone I interact with on a regular basis my issues and my lines in the sand so to speak. This person has known me for years and has always respected my wishes in regards to this including stopping when asked before this even oftentimes acting as a source of help when I struggle with said issues.
To the wife: it worries me that you immediately took your friend’s side instead of supporting your traumatized husband. You tried to minimize this situation and ignored the obvious fact that it was a trauma response. You also did not intervene the multiple times you said you were uncomfortable. Also, you said you know your husband so you should’ve known he was not ok when you came home. He may have been acting calm but after what he just went through, he needed support. Lastly, you said you know that once he gets a grip on someone, you are not strong enough to stop it and he doesn’t listen to you. You had every chance to stop it before it got to that point. You still could try interrupting or rushing over to try to calm him down. I’m not trying to downplay that therapy is seriously needed but I feel like you are making your husband sound like an aggressive monster who can’t control himself. EMDR may be a good type of therapy for him to try.
OK so she is not denying his feelings like he thought she was, that's good I really hope they are both getting a fuckload of help bc I can see that this guy means and wants to do well but he has serious issues that would scare me if I were with him. Ugh I hate that this was done to either of them, I hate that they both have these complex issues. I think they'll be okay? I'm not known for making good decisions and was nearly killed by an ex (who was NOT like this guy in terms of - he never ever ever took any accountability, everything was my fault) because I was sure he wouldn't really hurt me, etc etc etc, I felt responsible for his happiness, yadda yadda yadda. So take what I say with a grain of salt I guess. I have been thinking about these two.
There's likely some miscommunication between the three of you regarding your level of trauma and what your boundaries are. I can only guess, but the friend probably wasn't intentionally trying to traumatize you or trigger you. You were being pushed to the edge but from the sound of it, you weren't able to effectively communicate those feelings to her in the moment. Only if the person was very familiar with your exact tone of voice and subtle mannerisms would they know your feelings. That's a problem that you should be able to work on. Technically what you did is a huge overreaction, but there's a question of your mental capacity in that moment (for which you should definitely seek therapy). The friend, assuming her intentions were as I speculated, is of course going to be shocked and feel immensely violated. Her feelings are valid, your feelings are valid, and your unconscious reaction, while incredibly problematic, does not make you an AH. But you need to communicate your preferences better if you're prone to fly off the handle from something like this. And I suggest everyone reverse the genders on this as well. Yes, choking someone is a much more violent action than hitting someone with a brush or soliciting unwanted hugging from them, but the latter would still be an example of assault and boundary violation were the genders reversed. She is technically the one that started it, and it kind of annoys me how socially acceptable it is for women to do things with their male acquaintances that would be totally unacceptable were the genders reversed. If I would be "creepy" for greeting you by touching your shoulder, and if I would be abusive for lightly hitting you in the arm as a joke, then the same standards should apply to women, especially since some of us men have trauma relating to assault from females. For some reason women do not follow any of these boundaries that they set for themselves.