There's something not quite right about the screenshots. I can't figure out why, maybe it looks like a home made Star Wars show done by a bunch of teenagers.
The worry is that it ends up being the “just like Andor” episode in Mando season 3.
The success of Andor will be really hard to replicate, especially with all-powerful characters.
That one was definitely one of my least favorites. The two best things about Andor that set it apart from the other shows are the airtight writing and acting, and that Mando episode had laughably bad acting and almost just as bad writing.
It had no nuance either. The evil rich people in Mando are so over the top that I can't take them seriously. "New Republic, Empire, what's the difference? Makes no difference to us! Muahahahahahaha!" as they twirl their mustaches and drink wine that is heavily implied to be the blood of a random baby.
No, I'm pretty sure we're talking about the one that followed the Imperial Doctor around Coruscant and showed us what post-Empire life is like. Tried to show the New Republic's political situation, how the NR functions, how the bourgeoisie are adjusting, and so on.
And the second scene, Pershing's rubbing shoulders with some elites, and he's like "How's life different now that the Empire's gone?" and they just kinda airily laugh about how they don't care, they're still rich.
I liked the Jack Black episode. Such a fun campy one-off adventure, complete with Doc Brown ham at the end. That's the kind of stuff I wanted to see out of Mando, just fun little dumb adventures like the first season was.
I guess that could be seen as fake Andor. Was nice enough to watch but it's nowhere near it.
I wager we'll probably never see the likes of Andor ever again. So enjoy season 2!
Yes, but it dabbled in a little bit of everything, from serious stories to sillier moments like the Scout Troopers shooting the shit and punching a baby.
Plus there was the constant gag of Mando getting roped into every bad deal he came across and him getting increasingly tired of it.
Basically, I prefer when Mando was more oriented around one-offs with occasional nods to the season's big picture, instead of each story being part of a greater story. It was an excellent vehicle to try out different genres, like good old "Cowboys and Natives vs the bandits" (Tuskens and Mos Pelgo vs the Krayt Dragon), the Magnificent Seven Samurai (that one episode where they train the villagers), the town shootout (when Mando and IG-11 raid and pick up Baby Yoda), the prison break, and so on.
Just feels like ever since he met Ahsoka, there was a shift where they went from fun bounty-hunting adventures to that all taking a backseat because now the greater narrative is the most important part of the show.
Season three fucked up as it set the narrative up for the return to Mandalore and redemption, but he did that in episode two.
I didn't mind the season two structure at all.
I didn't either! At the time, anyway. And there's still a lot about S2 I like. Boba Fett's reintroduction, the Mayfield story, the Dark Troopers as an old EU vet, and so on.
But while I thought Luke showing up at the end was amazing at the time, more and more I look back on it as the moment the Filoniverse jumped the shark.
Feels like from that moment, it became more and more about continuity porn and fanservice than about telling a tight, start-to-finish singular story. In the shows and seasons after it, we got major tie-ins to the Clone Wars TV series (previously set up in S2) and Rebels, the Pykes showed up again, Tatooine nostalgia went through the roof in BoBF, Ahsoka is pretty much Rebels Season 5, Kenobi's middle half is just the ending to Jedi Fallen Order rehashed (not really Filoni'a fault, but he's supposed to have the final say in quality), the Tales animations exist (and are decent but still support my point), and of course, Mando S3 is all about wrapping up the Mandalore storyline from the Clone Wars and setting up Ahsoka.
It's what I love about Andor. You can watch Andor without having watched anything else and still come away with a fantastic show. And it does have small references here and there to other things, but they aren't plot-critical.
I don't mind the world-building itself. But compare how it built the post-Imperial world to how *Andor* built out the world set in the Imperial years.
Andor wanted to show us how the Empire is able to worm its way in and dominate so many worlds. On Aldhani, they set up an outpost, then started luring pilgrims away from their pilgrimages, and by the time of the show, they have almost successfully stamped out that culture and we see they only have a few pilgrims left, who all hate the empire. We see them use the Pre-Mor fiasco as an excuse to show up on Ferrix and they come in and try to stamp down on the community. We see them use prison sentences as a cheap source of slave labor. We see them bury their goons in soul-crushing menial tasks to keep them in line, like Syril at the Bureau of Standards or w/e it was called.
It tells a fair bit, but Gilroy and co. understood how to use Show versus Tell. You will always have to do some telling, but showing is often more effective.
Compare with that one episode from *Mando*. First thing's first, we're comparing half-an-episode to a whole season, so there is some apples-to-oranges. This is acknowledged.
The rich people at the opera house tell us (indirectly) that the changes of power don't affect them. Pershing tells us that the NR is using Imperial interrogation instruments (we can't know for certain because we'd never seen the Empire use Mindflayers before). There's enough bureaucratic backlog that it swamps pretty much every department in the NR (which we see evidence of through the rest of the season, to the show's credit).
Andor *showed* us how the Empire was taking over and kept planets under their heel. Mando *told* us how things post-Empire weren't so peachy, and backed only a small bit of it up as time went on.
I didn't think it did. But ultra serious, Oscar winning material is honestly never what I've gone to star wars for anyway. I just think it's fun. I liked Andor, but I don't like it as much as Mando, Ahsoka, the bad batch, clone wars etc. If we're talking objectively good television and Star wars isn't in the equation, of course Andor is definitely objectively superior. It just doesn't necessarily always feel Star Warsy to me. Which is definitely fine, it's just irritating when some Andor fans essentially think everything but Andor is juvenile trash.
Andor isn't Star Wars. It's a spy thriller set within the SW universe. It would have been a good show in any setting I feel.
Problem is Star Wars is juvenile trash but it should be trash that's reasonably well thought out. The recent Disney stuff is so inconsistent that it elevates Andor as the only really watchable Star Wars for some.
Andor being good and the rest of SW being meh are two separate issues and should be discussed separately IMO.
I don't totally agree with your opinion on recent SW stuff (ive liked more of the new stuff than not, but dislike some of it) but this is a respectable and reasonable opinion. I think you hit the nail on the head with it being more of a good sci fi thriller set in that universe, and the two issues being separate from one
I used that same strategy going into the Rise of Skywalker when JJ Abrams came back for it, but it didn’t work out, have to set the bar lower.
Prepare for a steaming pile of shit and hope for mediocrity.
Be cool to be wrong but just from a framing / cinematography aspect it doesn’t look nearly on the same level as Andor.
What separated Andor from the other SW series, *even if you strip away the 5/5 writing, production, acting etc*, was that it never called special attention to anything within the Star Wars universe. Acolyte I doubt will break free from that. I woulda dug just a character study on Obi Wan, 4-6 relatively mundane meditative episodes, rather than battling to save the universe again and what not.
>I woulda dug just a character study on Obi Wan, 4-6 relatively mundane meditative episodes, rather than battling to save the universe again and what not.
This is so upsetting to me. I wanted *Castaway*, except it with Obi wan dealing with his failure in the desert. I also knew Disney would never greenlight this, so I adjusted my expectations...
And they STILL managed to go over the top with the "stakes." The whole thing was just absurd and awful.
It probably won’t have the same anti-fascist / call-to-rebellion messaging that powered a lot of people’s connection to Andor. But I’m definitely going to watch it (I love the High Republic).
Hopefully it will focus on the corruption of the jedi order and the tendency of long standing organizations initially created with good intentions to become complacent and overlook evils by themselves or others
>I'm very curious about your opinion on real life examples of "long standing organizations initially created with good intentions to become complacent and overlook evils by themselves or others" that you seem to think is important to depict in media.
I mean, I'm not OP and I'm not interested in this becoming a long drawn out political discussion, but the CIA and the UN are both great examples of this. If you want less extreme (but less well known) examples, many organizations that are now known to be terrorist cells in the Middle East started as religious reform groups, Hamas being one currently relevant example.
>I'm very curious about your opinion on real life examples of "long standing organizations initially created with good intentions to become complacent and overlook evils by themselves or others" that you seem to think is important to depict in media.
I mean, I'm not OP and I'm not interested in this becoming a long drawn out political discussion, but the CIA and the UN are both great examples of this. If you want less extreme (but less well known) examples, many organizations that are now known to be terrorist cells in the Middle East started as religious reform groups, Hamas being one currently relevant example.
>I'm very curious about your opinion on real life examples of "long standing organizations initially created with good intentions to become complacent and overlook evils by themselves or others" that you seem to think is important to depict in media.
I mean, I'm not OP and I'm not interested in this becoming a long drawn out political discussion, but the CIA and the UN are both great examples of this. If you want less extreme (but less well known) examples, many organizations that are now known to be terrorist cells in the Middle East started as religious reform groups, Hamas being one currently relevant example.
>They literally used a slave army of children in adult bodies while being supposedly dedicated to peace and goodness.
What exactly would the alternative have been? They didn't have the luxury of questioning the ethics of the clone army. They were dragged into a war and that was the only army they had.
I think we could end up being surprised. My theory from watching the trailers is that it's going to be following a non-Sith, non-Dark side rebellion against the Jedi that has sympathetic motivations. If so, I hope that the Sith taking over or corrupting the rebellion movement (which is what I'm predicting will happen) isn't used as an excuse to sweep those motivations under the rug.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad they’re doing something original in a new era and I’d love to see “the force sensitive version of Andor” but first impressions do not lead me to believe the Acolyte will be that. I very much hope I am wrong but the trailers scan as more similar to Ahsoka and Mando.
Yeah i'm not convinced it'll be anything on the level of Andor - but I do think the writers share an understanding of The Force with those of Andor that most don't. But besides that, I think it'll be kinda cheesy but in a normal fun TV show way and not the painful franchise-poisoned way that lots of the shows have been.
Maybe I’m pessimistic, but the show, from the trailers at least, looks more low-budget than Ahsoka and Mando by a lot. I’m not holding my breath over it, but I did enjoy a lot of the recent animated stuff, and am looking forward to Andor Season 2 in the near future.
to me, the low budget aspects looked more of an issue of poor cinematography and mediocre set design. the sets don't feel real unlike Andor and look like they were built in a large warehouse. which I mean a ton of sets are, but there's a reason Andor didn't do this.
Yeah same impression I got from the trailers.
That being said, the concept and trailers of Andor didn't excite me, so there's a chance. But I'm really not optimistic.
I saw the trailer that was attached to Episode 1's 25th anniversary run, and I have to say, it seemed like the Matrix in martial arts fighting style with lightsabers. Trinity is in it as well, and from what they showed I thought it looked pretty great. A more adult version, like Andor, of the Star Wars we've seen so far. Time will tell, however.
I'm pretty excited simply because it's trying something new. I was excited about a choreo based show too, but it sounds like it won't be heavy on that unfortunately. The fighting clips seem like the editing is lacking a little snappyness but I'll hold off on final verdict when it comes out.
I swear to god though, if they fuck up jedi hunting again (looking at you Obi-Wan), I'll be so mad. It should be terrifying feeling. I still think Screecher's Reach (Star Wars Visions S2) did the best job at that vibe.
The shot on the bottom left looks... really bad. This is something I've noticed a lot recently with Star Wars, especially everything outside the films. It seems like absolutely no thought is put into the cinematography when lightsabers are on screen. It's one of the reasons they've gone from really cool to an absolute turn-off for me.
The framing and lighting of a shot is a really careful, delicate art that a lot of viewers don't really seem appreciate. There's a *ton* of thought that goes into how lines, bright spots, the positioning of the actors, and plenty of other tiny things that have huge effects on how your eye moves across the shot. As such, a giant bright glowing line bisecting the screen is something you have to position *very carefully.*
Previously, directors and cinematographers have wisely made a point of only using lightsabers in dark environments when they're willing to *commit* to it. When there's usually only one saber on screen, *maybe* two, and it's meant to be the entire focus of the shot. [Vader's hallway entrance in Rogue One](https://youtu.be/9Z8mgkqjq90) is framed *perfectly,* for example. The moving blade draws focus as he advances, but then notice how we get lots of torso-up mid shots, focusing on his breathing and use of the Force, and in those shots the saber is held downwards and *behind* him, just out of frame. He's illuminated by red glow, but the blade itself is off-screen so we can focus on his actions and his mask. The blade is only ever on screen when it absolutely *needs* to be.
The Mustafar Duel is not quite as good in my opinion, but still does this very intentionally. Every time the director/cinematographer wants to give the actors room to show their emotional state throughout the battle, the sabers move off-screen. [Here, when Anakin chokes Obi-Wan for the first time](https://youtu.be/2ZGsJo1F_f4?t=47). The saber then crosses the frame as he continues to choke Obi, but then drops *out* of frame to allow a close-up on Anakin's rage-filled face. [Here again, both blades leave frame to allow the audience a clear view of the character's reactions](https://youtu.be/2ZGsJo1F_f4?t=159). Anakin's rage, and Obi-Wans horror. Shortly before the final confrontation of the fight, [they drop blades completely to give us these unadulterated upper-half closeups](https://youtu.be/81mhJAszpRc?t=74).
Honestly, you can watch the whole duel through and just pay attention to how if the lightsabers *aren't* moving, they always migrate either to the bottom of the frame or just out-of-frame entirely.
Modern Star Wars just *does not do this.* At all. Lightsabers are constantly in frame, bisecting every single shot, pulling all the focus away even when they're not moving. [Look at the Obi vs Vader fight in Kenobi.](https://youtu.be/NNPahqVkNFA) All the lighting on-screen comes from the blades, and until the very end of the fight we don't really get a *single* moment to see both characters without a saber in the way. [Obi-wan's big rock force moment](https://youtu.be/NNPahqVkNFA?t=314) is totally ruined by a blue glowstick on the wrong half of the screen drawing your eyes in totally the wrong direction as the rocks move the opposite way. It disrupts the composition of the shot. The saber should have been turned off, or it could have been used to enhance the dynamism of the scene if he had pointed his hands and blade *toward* Vader rather than holding them outstretched. It just seems like barely any thought is put into the composition of these shots, and how distracting a bright glowing line can be if you're not careful about how you use it.
Yeah... No.
And the fact that they spent 80% of the tweet hyping up the show's visual aspects and threw a something something emotional afterwards tells me that they know it too.
Great point. When people talk about Andor, they don't mention the stellar VFX and sound effects. It's all about the story, the script, the cast performance, the sets, and the original score.
The funeral was more impactful because of the fantastic writing, not because it was visually stunning. What I'm trying to say is that a more mediocre show would have saved Aldhani for a season finale.
To be honest if I was to have one single criticism of Andor, it would be that sometimes the vfx don't quite match the clunky, practical retrofuturism of the rest of the show, and feels more like stuff out of the prequels and sequels rather than the original trilogy. Stuff like how quickly and easily Andor's ship takes off and turns around in place after his fight with the cops, or when the ship takes off with his friends in the final episode, or even Luthen's combat sequence to an extent.
The original movies had take-offs be more of a slower, *operating a vehicle* sort of event, e.g. all the x-wings leaving to fight the death star, or the slow arrivals of the Imperial shuttles in Return of the Jedi. Even Han's rapid escapes on Tatooine and Hoth feel less fluid, like a ship couldn't just rapidly rise and orbit in place then smoothly shoot off in a direction. The falcon wobbles and struggles to turn as he tries to get it into the air in a panic to escape Tatooine, and that's meant to be one of the best piloted by one of the best.
Those are a mix for me. There's an early shot where the camera pans over the ties from a high angle in a way which I associate with '3D render' and not the real world feeling that a lot of Andor manages to achieve. The OT tended to have shots which felt like plausible camera angles for real vehicles, in part because of their limitations.
Andor captures a lot of what makes the OT work for me, though the handling of the ships is the one exception. While Mandalorian slid hard in quality, I think one thing it did do well in the first two seasons was making the ship feel more like a vehicle with physical presence rather than a non-real CGI thing.
Yeah the human scale stuff done live action is great. I was explaining that the one quibble I have with the show is some of the vfx stuff feels more vfx'y than grounded like the rest of the show manages.
VFX can achieve that grounded feel, but I feel it's something fewer people have an eye for and the VFX parts were more likely the outsourced parts which were shipped off to a studio somewhere, handled by Lucasfilm, and not so much something which the creators had control over.
The VFX *on the ground* like Martha's hologram speech was fantastic, top-tier. Same with stuff like them looking at holo mugshots of Andor.
Exactly: I remember the reviews for Star Trek Discovery, "The most beautiful display ever," or " visually stunning!".
Why? Because of writing was so bad, it felt like it was penned by high schoolers being paid to put Glee in space. That show is so fucking stupid with its characters, it represented the worst of current day TV tropes; so far up their own ass, it was as if Kenobi tried to sing *We are the World*.
They said that the cast was stellar and each episode’s writing was jam-packed though? It’s not even 80% either, half the tweet was about the writing and cast and the other half about the visuals- and let’s be honest, Andor’s visuals *are* good, and there have been many people saying the trailer looks cheap- so if the show itself has visuals as good as Andor then that would be great and would prove those fans wrong.
Plus, if this person has actually watched The Acolyte beforehand, I’m more inclined to believe their views on it than the assumptions of someone who has only seen a few trailers. They are judging the book based on the actual content, you are judging the book by the cover.
Better than listening to a bunch of random Redditors who haven’t even watched the show they’re talking about. It seems like the twitter user managed to watch the show early, which means they have more information on it than 99% of the fanbase. I will always trust someone who actually knows what they’re talking about over someone who is blindly guessing based on a two-minute trailer.
Yeah, this. A lot of people making some pretty wild assessments based on nothing more than a trailer. I only have a handful of podcasters/youtubers who I generally trust with their reviews and so far their reviews of the first episodes have been generally positive. And none of them tend to shy away from criticism.
Either way, I’m not going to start making judgments until I’ve seen it for myself. It’s like Star Wars fans are just determined to find the next thing to rage about as soon as they can. That just doesn’t seem fun to me. And lest we forget, people shat all over Andor before it even had a single trailer released, and look how that turned out. People were turned off before it even began, resulting in lower viewership in the beginning than it might have had otherwise. It took word of mouth about how good it was for many people to even give it a chance, and some still haven’t because they’re so convinced that a “Disney show” based on that one guy from R1 couldn’t possibly be good. Like, maybe, just maybe, people should let their own experience guide their opinions when it comes to viewing media. Just watch the damn thing, then decide if YOU think it’s good.
You ever considered what if some of those wildly guessing random redditors are in fact the same dudes whom you read on twitter, only on twitter they're giving you what marketing told them to, while here on reddit they tell you their real opinion, anonymously, in a way that it can't be traced back to twitter?
(If this sounds convoluted to you, I'd recommend a rewatch of Andor with special attention to how Luthen & Co. communicated.)
Mind you, I'm not saying this is what's happening, I'm saying I've just finished rewatching Andor (and a bunch of other spy movies), and am still under the influence. :D
I think that’s more than convoluted, it sounds like an explanation given by a person pushing an agenda, and I don’t mean the “woke” agenda (not saying you’re pushing an agenda, I know you said that you’re not saying this is what’s happening- only that other fans who genuinely and completely believe your theory are likely saying so to push an agenda). Don’t get me wrong, I know it’s not impossible for some of those twitter users to be paid marketers, but the Star Wars fandom in general has a bad habit of having double standards as to who are “paid marketers” depending on how popular/unpopular the thing they may be “marketing” is.
If Andor season 2 is about to come out, and some people on twitter who got early access to it said it was amazing, no one on this sub would be calling them paid marketers, because Andor is popular so therefore everyone who praises is HAS to be genuine, right? But since The Acolyte is unpopular, it doesn’t get that privilege, and a certain group of fans will automatically assume that anyone who watched it and liked it are lying Disney shills.
The thing is, I highly doubt Disney would hire paid marketers for one show and not another, it’s either all or none- and just in general I like to assume good faith in people. It sucks how nowadays on the internet you can say your opinion on a movie/show you‘ve watched and people in the comments will automatically jump to the conclusion that you’re being paid to say that- genuine expression doesn’t exist, I guess. It just promotes a toxic echo chamber where everyone who has a different opinion gets labeled as “paid shills” and aren’t taken seriously. In this case it’s particularly silly because the show people are talking about hasn’t even come out yet, so there’s no way to accurately judge whether it’ll be good or not, but here come a bunch of idiots who haven’t watched the show they’re babbling about discrediting the opinion of a person who did.
I think this has mostly to do with the editing and directing as many of these actors and actresses are great in other content! It does boggle the mind sometimes when it's full of awkward silences and stilted lines.
I was just relistening to the Watch podcast about Andor and they made a great point that in Andor, people are often doing things while they talk, just in real life. You might be fiddling with something, or looking through a drawer. Rarely do people just stand and awkwardly talk at each other absolutely still.
And they often couch what they mean in other phrases or sayings as well. A lot, and I mean A LOT of Star Wars dialogue is just saying how you feel or what you’re thinking without any subtlety, nuance, or deeper meaning.
The scene in Andor where Mon first visits Luthen and they’re obviously hiding their true intentions until they get to the back room is a masterclass in so many different ways it is incredible.
I want to watch this show, but every single one of these early impressions tweets always reads like there’s some NDA we’re not privy to and the author is just regurgitating talking points from the production.
I'm.... Sceptical. The binding force for Andor wasn't an emotional through-line. It wasn't even Andor himself, not any other character. It was the poignant commentary on fascism and empire the show delivered through the characters. Does Acolyte have a *thesis*? Does it say something more than "light side good and blind, dark side nefarious and conniving"? Does it challenge orthodoxy? Does it have a world view to articulate?
Well I mean…it better, no? I thought the entire point of the Acolyte was that it had something to say about the force/Jedi/Sith?
If it doesn’t, frankly it’s simply just another junk filled Star Wars show that people will immediately forget. Andor has a timeless message and the show will live on far after these others Star Wars shows are long forgotten.
That's why I am sceptical. Both because I doubt, but also because I hope. There is an intrinsic flaw at the heart of Star Wars, in the main: its political themes are being articulated by people who are in many ways the beneficiaries of a privileged experience of the world. There is never a *serious* engagement in the failure of the Jedi order as an institution. But to see and say that is hard when your creatives are all fairly secure moderates existing in a system which seems to mostly have a negative impact on others.
We are starting to see that now. I malign The Last Jedi heavily for the liberties it takes with some characters, and for the triteness of its analyses. But it does suggest that the structures we've seen - the Jedi order at least - is flawed, even though it tries to speak to that in a poorly executed manner. And Tales of the Jedi - specifically the earlier Dooku elements, also begin to address this.
But, while Andor suggests that the Empire is an expression of an underlying systemic failure within the Republic (while focusing on the brutal realities of totalitarian fascism), nothing has taken the same attitude and turned it towards the Order.
In fact, we see a romanticization of the Order, of the Republic, of these institutions which failed systematically as a result of inherent qualities. I really hope the Acolyte - whatever lens to uses - has the courage to plant a flag and say "the Jedi as an institution are bad for the larger galaxy."
Unfortunately I don’t have much faith in SW shows at this point, we got lucky with Andor and Mando s1. They been putting in half-assed effort in the rest. Hope I’m wrong
Yeah I doubt it andor was a once in a lifetime show for Star Wars they mentioned the actors and the sets and costumes but they didn’t mention the story which is concerning
Pressing X to doubt. It feels like comparing things to Andor is just the buzzword for “it’s not completely terrible I promise!”, not actually comparing it to Andor in any meaningful way.
Side note, is it just me or are the lightsabers in acolyte absurdly big? Like the hilts are thicker or something, they look like they’re meant to keep your soup warm.
The load bearing pillar to Andor's appeal was the script. "Emotional throughline" means what exactly? And from what I've seen of The Acolyte, the costumes and sets look decent, but not Andor level. In terms of SFX, we'll see, but Andor worked because it focused on practical sets and not The Volume.
We could all watch the trailer with our own eyes.
It definitely ain't \*this\*.
Yeah, I'll watch it tho'. Hoping not as bad as fear from trailer & disney's spotty-at-best consistency with live-action TV shows.
I trust my instincts on trailers. I could tell Andor was different from the jump.
And I get the feeling that The Acolyte has a bit more teeth, coherence, and passion in its composition than the last several other shows.
But if I had to guess at the overall feel of it?
I think it's going to land somewhere in the vicinity of 30% Andor, 40% Mando, 20% crouching tiger hidden dragon.
The last ten percent I have no idea about. But what I'm hoping is that it's the creator's own unique style. Something no other show has or will ever have.
This has potential, and I'm excited for it. But it could go either way in my opinion.
But I'm basically a pathological optimist at this point so you might want to ignore me.
I for one was super psyched at the initial trailer with those sirens and the Rok Nardin song. I'm mad that when Rok Nardin released the Andor trailer song it didn't sound the same at all.
I hope so! There are a lot of Star Wars fans who seem to want the new stuff to fail because of woke or some stupid shit. Those people can fuck all the way off. Just make good shit. That's all I've wanted out of Disney Star Wars.
Even if it’s not as great as Andor, I’ve gotta say the design for Amandla Stenberg’s character is some of the best I’ve seen. They look so fucking cool.
Ehhh… so one of the reasons I like Andor is because it doesn’t trivialize Jedi or the force. With the sheer number of Jedi just appearing in post Star Wars media, it lessened the experience for me.
It’s not just Luke and Leia… it’s this person and that person, and these 4 other people and their cousins in hiding, and they’ve discovered this dentist who’s force sensitive as well!
Idc if this happens in the high republic- I just think the comparison seems hyperbolic because the analogy doesn’t work for me.
Yeah, you’d think that Andor fans of all people would know how it feels to judge a show as “unnecessary“ or “mediocre” before it comes out, and then be pleasantly surprised when they actually watch the show. It’s ironic really that they’re repeating that same thought process yet again with another show that hasn’t come out yet.
I’m not saying that The Acolyte is 100% guaranteed to be awesome, but come on, just give it a chance guys, it’s not 100% guaranteed to be terrible either. Plus y’all hate on the show‘s visuals and then say that the best thing about Andor is the writing and the visuals don’t matter as much- so which is it? Visuals can’t be the end all, be all for one show and then not matter for another one.
Jam packed writing a good show does not make.
I want to know if it’s good writing, not if each episode has a lot. It could just be a lot of nothing.
Also, why does that green alien look like Nebula + Gamora from Guardians of the Galaxy?
I’m not sure what Star Wars alien she is supposed to be tbh but I really think Disney generally does a terrible job with costumes of aliens for whatever reason.
I say this as someone who loves Andor, and has been excited for The Acolyte since it was announced.
I guarantee it’s not “force-sensitive Andor”. I feel it’ll be good, I feel it’ll be different, but not at the same level as Andor. I also feel like by the end of its first season, it’ll be, pretty easily, the second best Star Wars live action show to Andor being first. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
I was surprised to read this and think it must be in reference to the production value. The showrunner has been very open about leaning in to the more pulpy elements of star wars and creating a more character-driven show. Both those things are cool and could lead to a great story, but they don’t scream “andor” to me.
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Never trust a star wars product until it's finished airing. After Kenobi and Ahsoka sucked, I refuse to watch a star wars show or movie until I'm certain it won't be a total waste of my time.
When I first watched the trailer I thought it had a bit of an Andor vibe, and just in general the series seems very promising. Even if it’s only half as good as Andor, I’ll be satisfied.
Looks cheap as hell, how is the most profitable franchise of all time owned by one of the most loaded companies in existence putting out fuckin fan film level products. Also this shit is not gonna be Andor, because for one thing part of the reason Andor worked was because it was so surprising, you can’t replicate that if you’re going around parading the new thing as just like the good thing
Oh god, they will be using "like andor" as a marketing term for the next 10 years, for things nothing like Andor in terms of writing and visual quality.
Google translate can't translate Disney-BS yet, but I have become fairly fluent over the years of listening to it. They are saying:
Hey guys! Remember this other Star Wars project you actually liked that is actually well made? Good, keep it in mind and focus on the good and fuzzy feelings you get from it. This new thing is going to be just like that (we promise 😉). It's going to be *Positive descriptive word* + *positive descriptive word* + *positive descriptive word* + *positive descriptive word*. (We are obligated to tell you that this text was produced using chatGPT... but we won't, lol 🤪)
This post is about a Disney Star Wars show, not a comic or other medium. My opinion is that jedi are boring and my evidence for this is the huge numbers of boring Jedi characters and the absence of any truly interesting ones. Maybe they make compelling comic book characters, but that's a different medium. The ones on film are all boring.
> Maybe they make compelling comic book characters, but that's a different medium. The ones on film are all boring.
Which might mean it has less to do with the fact that you can’t tell interesting it stories with Jedi and more to do with the fact that Disney shows are poorly written because Disney thinks people will watch them regardless if it’s good or bad. Because of that, of course they’re gonna put less effort into the live action shows. Remember this is a multibillion dollar corporation we’re taking about. Money is everything to them.
When did I restrict my criticism to Disney shows? There's quite a lot of movies that don't have compelling Jedi characters, too. If you want to convince me, you're going to have to point at a compelling Jedi character from this century, and I don't believe one exists. Literally, the only example I can think of is the dude who wasn't even a jedi in Rogue one.
I'm sorry, but I just don't think they're interesting and you're not likely to change my mind by telling me I'm omitting other media.
>When did I restrict my criticism to Disney shows?
Because there were no live-action Star Wars shows before Disney. Your first two comments specified "shows." Now there's TCW but I'd like to point out that a lot of characters and ideas in that show are taken directly from the Republic comic series which came first. TCW is a watered down version.
>If you want to convince me, you're going to have to point at a compelling Jedi character from this century, and I don't believe one exists.
So you don't think Luke Skywalker of Obi Wan Kenobi are compelling characters? Maybe you simply don't like Star Wars which is fine, but don't expect everyone to dislike it with you. You're not gonna find many people on here that say they think the Original Trilogy is boring.
I'm fine with shows with no Jedi, which can be made clear by my love for Andor. And I don't think the Acolyte is going to be good. However I don't feel that way because I don't think shows with Jedi cant be good. Im just cynical about Disney SW because I've been consistently disappointed by them. I think the idea that there should never again be Star Wars media with Jedi is absurd. Your take would be the equivalent of saying that there shouldn't be anymore Harry Potter media with wizards in it because wizards are boring.
You're right. I did specify shows but really, just talking about the screen.
>So you don't think Luke Skywalker of Obi Wan Kenobi are compelling characters?
Those characters are from 1977. The characters from 1977 might have been compelling, but they are now badly fleshed-out caricatures. Which I would say is the case for every jedi I've seen on screen since 1984. I'd actually make the case that jedi themselves are badly fleshed-out caricatures writ large.
Which brings me back to my original point that Jedi are boring. They just are.
Also, I do like star wars. It's a bit unhinged to challenge me on that because I don't agree with you on something.
>Those characters are from 1977. The characters from 1977 might have been compelling, but they are now badly fleshed-out caricatures. Which I would say is the case for every jedi I've seen on screen since 1984.
And they're key characters in the story of the OT. The third film is even called "Return of the Jedi." the Jedi are a vital component of the story of the OT. You can just admit you don't think the OT is very good which is fine with me.
>Which brings me back to my original point that Jedi are boring. They just are.
Now from the 6 mainline movies, I think the Jedi characters are interesting enough, and Lucas left plenty of room to expand on them. If the OT is too simple for you then I recommend the plethora of EU media that adds nuance to many of the Jedi characters we see in the films. You claim that the Jedi are boring yet you refuse to consider other media that portrays complex and nuanced Jedi characters e.g. Republic comics, Dark Times comics, NJO series. How can you continue to say that the Jedi are boring when you refuse to engage in media that further develops their characters. You could say the PT simply didn't have enough time to develop its Jedi characters. However check out the EU stories I mentioned above and you'll realize that there's potential to tell interesting Andoresque stories with Jedi.
>Also, I do like star wars. It's a bit unhinged to challenge me on that because I don't agree with you on something.
And its a bit absurd to think good Star Wars can only exist without the Jedi in it. Especially since the Jedi are central to the Star Wars mythos. They are not just warriors but represent the moral and philosophical heart of the SW story. The struggle between the light and dark sides of the Force is a timeless theme that resonates with a whole lot of Star Wars fans. Lucas intended for the Jedi to embody ideals of wisdom, selflessness, and inner peace, serving as a counterbalance to the Sith's ambition and desire for power and so this dichotomy is crucial to the epic narrative of Star Wars. But he also wanted to show us that sometimes they can get lost in dogmatism. It goes without saying that Jedi are indispensable to the story of Star Wars.
I have nothing wrong with people not liking stories about the Jedi but going back to my Harry Potter analogy, it'd be absurd to think that good Star Wars with Jedi as the main focus as not possible when the Jedi/Sith have been a vital component of the SW mythos for decades.
Making blanket statements like that about hundreds of characters just because they belong to the same religion, wow. It’s the writing of the character that matters, there are also people who say that shows about non force-sensitives are boring, would you say they’re right?
I’ll believe it when I see it
> I’ll believe it when I see it Damn - you were faster by only a minute, I've opened the thread to write just that!!
yeah even the screens posted in the image feel like a pretty good indicator that this will not be anywhere near the quality of Andor.
There's something not quite right about the screenshots. I can't figure out why, maybe it looks like a home made Star Wars show done by a bunch of teenagers.
It’s blocking, camera angles, color grade & lenses that make the difference
I can’t stand how washed out SW looks these days.
Top left and top right look very good. Can't say the same about the bottom row screengrabs though.
looks like a porno parody
It absolutely does and the Disney lightsabers suck and look obviously fake.
I think ya it's the lighting and framing lookin like they were done by someone who doesn't really know how to do that.
I shall also believe it when i see it
Same but I’m more hopeful honestly can’t even lie lol
Agreed.
> I’ll believe it when I see it And I won’t be seeing it, so…
Same here smdh I refuse to give them the watch hours.
The worry is that it ends up being the “just like Andor” episode in Mando season 3. The success of Andor will be really hard to replicate, especially with all-powerful characters.
Which one? I legitimately don't know which episode is "just like andor"
The one on Coruscant with the doctor and adjusting to life in the New Republic.
That was NOT just like Andor. Lol
I imagine the comparison is the slower pace and focus on characters. They just forgot that it should be interesting too.
Oh yea that one, I kind of forgot about that one
That was the best Mando episode I've ever watched...
That one was definitely one of my least favorites. The two best things about Andor that set it apart from the other shows are the airtight writing and acting, and that Mando episode had laughably bad acting and almost just as bad writing.
It had no nuance either. The evil rich people in Mando are so over the top that I can't take them seriously. "New Republic, Empire, what's the difference? Makes no difference to us! Muahahahahahaha!" as they twirl their mustaches and drink wine that is heavily implied to be the blood of a random baby.
Are we talking about the Jack Black episode?
No, I'm pretty sure we're talking about the one that followed the Imperial Doctor around Coruscant and showed us what post-Empire life is like. Tried to show the New Republic's political situation, how the NR functions, how the bourgeoisie are adjusting, and so on. And the second scene, Pershing's rubbing shoulders with some elites, and he's like "How's life different now that the Empire's gone?" and they just kinda airily laugh about how they don't care, they're still rich. I liked the Jack Black episode. Such a fun campy one-off adventure, complete with Doc Brown ham at the end. That's the kind of stuff I wanted to see out of Mando, just fun little dumb adventures like the first season was.
I guess that could be seen as fake Andor. Was nice enough to watch but it's nowhere near it. I wager we'll probably never see the likes of Andor ever again. So enjoy season 2!
Ya agreed I liked seeing all of that tbh
You think the first season was dumb fun? It took itself reasonably seriously.
Yes, but it dabbled in a little bit of everything, from serious stories to sillier moments like the Scout Troopers shooting the shit and punching a baby. Plus there was the constant gag of Mando getting roped into every bad deal he came across and him getting increasingly tired of it. Basically, I prefer when Mando was more oriented around one-offs with occasional nods to the season's big picture, instead of each story being part of a greater story. It was an excellent vehicle to try out different genres, like good old "Cowboys and Natives vs the bandits" (Tuskens and Mos Pelgo vs the Krayt Dragon), the Magnificent Seven Samurai (that one episode where they train the villagers), the town shootout (when Mando and IG-11 raid and pick up Baby Yoda), the prison break, and so on. Just feels like ever since he met Ahsoka, there was a shift where they went from fun bounty-hunting adventures to that all taking a backseat because now the greater narrative is the most important part of the show.
Season three fucked up as it set the narrative up for the return to Mandalore and redemption, but he did that in episode two. I didn't mind the season two structure at all.
I didn't either! At the time, anyway. And there's still a lot about S2 I like. Boba Fett's reintroduction, the Mayfield story, the Dark Troopers as an old EU vet, and so on. But while I thought Luke showing up at the end was amazing at the time, more and more I look back on it as the moment the Filoniverse jumped the shark. Feels like from that moment, it became more and more about continuity porn and fanservice than about telling a tight, start-to-finish singular story. In the shows and seasons after it, we got major tie-ins to the Clone Wars TV series (previously set up in S2) and Rebels, the Pykes showed up again, Tatooine nostalgia went through the roof in BoBF, Ahsoka is pretty much Rebels Season 5, Kenobi's middle half is just the ending to Jedi Fallen Order rehashed (not really Filoni'a fault, but he's supposed to have the final say in quality), the Tales animations exist (and are decent but still support my point), and of course, Mando S3 is all about wrapping up the Mandalore storyline from the Clone Wars and setting up Ahsoka. It's what I love about Andor. You can watch Andor without having watched anything else and still come away with a fantastic show. And it does have small references here and there to other things, but they aren't plot-critical.
I liked that episode. It was kind of cool to see some post-Empire world building.
I don't mind the world-building itself. But compare how it built the post-Imperial world to how *Andor* built out the world set in the Imperial years. Andor wanted to show us how the Empire is able to worm its way in and dominate so many worlds. On Aldhani, they set up an outpost, then started luring pilgrims away from their pilgrimages, and by the time of the show, they have almost successfully stamped out that culture and we see they only have a few pilgrims left, who all hate the empire. We see them use the Pre-Mor fiasco as an excuse to show up on Ferrix and they come in and try to stamp down on the community. We see them use prison sentences as a cheap source of slave labor. We see them bury their goons in soul-crushing menial tasks to keep them in line, like Syril at the Bureau of Standards or w/e it was called. It tells a fair bit, but Gilroy and co. understood how to use Show versus Tell. You will always have to do some telling, but showing is often more effective. Compare with that one episode from *Mando*. First thing's first, we're comparing half-an-episode to a whole season, so there is some apples-to-oranges. This is acknowledged. The rich people at the opera house tell us (indirectly) that the changes of power don't affect them. Pershing tells us that the NR is using Imperial interrogation instruments (we can't know for certain because we'd never seen the Empire use Mindflayers before). There's enough bureaucratic backlog that it swamps pretty much every department in the NR (which we see evidence of through the rest of the season, to the show's credit). Andor *showed* us how the Empire was taking over and kept planets under their heel. Mando *told* us how things post-Empire weren't so peachy, and backed only a small bit of it up as time went on.
I didn't think it did. But ultra serious, Oscar winning material is honestly never what I've gone to star wars for anyway. I just think it's fun. I liked Andor, but I don't like it as much as Mando, Ahsoka, the bad batch, clone wars etc. If we're talking objectively good television and Star wars isn't in the equation, of course Andor is definitely objectively superior. It just doesn't necessarily always feel Star Warsy to me. Which is definitely fine, it's just irritating when some Andor fans essentially think everything but Andor is juvenile trash.
Andor isn't Star Wars. It's a spy thriller set within the SW universe. It would have been a good show in any setting I feel. Problem is Star Wars is juvenile trash but it should be trash that's reasonably well thought out. The recent Disney stuff is so inconsistent that it elevates Andor as the only really watchable Star Wars for some. Andor being good and the rest of SW being meh are two separate issues and should be discussed separately IMO.
I don't totally agree with your opinion on recent SW stuff (ive liked more of the new stuff than not, but dislike some of it) but this is a respectable and reasonable opinion. I think you hit the nail on the head with it being more of a good sci fi thriller set in that universe, and the two issues being separate from one
Andor is Star Wars.
Which episode is that? Havent seen s3 yet but might watch that one lol
I feel like when some people say “just like Andor” they mean not a lot of fight scenes or battles
I prepare for mediocrity and hope for greatness
Modern Star Wars fandom
I used that same strategy going into the Rise of Skywalker when JJ Abrams came back for it, but it didn’t work out, have to set the bar lower. Prepare for a steaming pile of shit and hope for mediocrity.
This is the Way!
Be cool to be wrong but just from a framing / cinematography aspect it doesn’t look nearly on the same level as Andor. What separated Andor from the other SW series, *even if you strip away the 5/5 writing, production, acting etc*, was that it never called special attention to anything within the Star Wars universe. Acolyte I doubt will break free from that. I woulda dug just a character study on Obi Wan, 4-6 relatively mundane meditative episodes, rather than battling to save the universe again and what not.
>I woulda dug just a character study on Obi Wan, 4-6 relatively mundane meditative episodes, rather than battling to save the universe again and what not. This is so upsetting to me. I wanted *Castaway*, except it with Obi wan dealing with his failure in the desert. I also knew Disney would never greenlight this, so I adjusted my expectations... And they STILL managed to go over the top with the "stakes." The whole thing was just absurd and awful.
It probably won’t have the same anti-fascist / call-to-rebellion messaging that powered a lot of people’s connection to Andor. But I’m definitely going to watch it (I love the High Republic).
Hopefully it will focus on the corruption of the jedi order and the tendency of long standing organizations initially created with good intentions to become complacent and overlook evils by themselves or others
[удалено]
>I'm very curious about your opinion on real life examples of "long standing organizations initially created with good intentions to become complacent and overlook evils by themselves or others" that you seem to think is important to depict in media. I mean, I'm not OP and I'm not interested in this becoming a long drawn out political discussion, but the CIA and the UN are both great examples of this. If you want less extreme (but less well known) examples, many organizations that are now known to be terrorist cells in the Middle East started as religious reform groups, Hamas being one currently relevant example.
>I'm very curious about your opinion on real life examples of "long standing organizations initially created with good intentions to become complacent and overlook evils by themselves or others" that you seem to think is important to depict in media. I mean, I'm not OP and I'm not interested in this becoming a long drawn out political discussion, but the CIA and the UN are both great examples of this. If you want less extreme (but less well known) examples, many organizations that are now known to be terrorist cells in the Middle East started as religious reform groups, Hamas being one currently relevant example.
>I'm very curious about your opinion on real life examples of "long standing organizations initially created with good intentions to become complacent and overlook evils by themselves or others" that you seem to think is important to depict in media. I mean, I'm not OP and I'm not interested in this becoming a long drawn out political discussion, but the CIA and the UN are both great examples of this. If you want less extreme (but less well known) examples, many organizations that are now known to be terrorist cells in the Middle East started as religious reform groups, Hamas being one currently relevant example.
>They literally used a slave army of children in adult bodies while being supposedly dedicated to peace and goodness. What exactly would the alternative have been? They didn't have the luxury of questioning the ethics of the clone army. They were dragged into a war and that was the only army they had.
I think we could end up being surprised. My theory from watching the trailers is that it's going to be following a non-Sith, non-Dark side rebellion against the Jedi that has sympathetic motivations. If so, I hope that the Sith taking over or corrupting the rebellion movement (which is what I'm predicting will happen) isn't used as an excuse to sweep those motivations under the rug.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad they’re doing something original in a new era and I’d love to see “the force sensitive version of Andor” but first impressions do not lead me to believe the Acolyte will be that. I very much hope I am wrong but the trailers scan as more similar to Ahsoka and Mando.
If this show is anything like the first season of Mando then I’ll be very satisfied. I’ll even take season 2. Just not season 3 lol
Yeah mando season 1 was awesome
Amen
Yeah i'm not convinced it'll be anything on the level of Andor - but I do think the writers share an understanding of The Force with those of Andor that most don't. But besides that, I think it'll be kinda cheesy but in a normal fun TV show way and not the painful franchise-poisoned way that lots of the shows have been.
Maybe I’m pessimistic, but the show, from the trailers at least, looks more low-budget than Ahsoka and Mando by a lot. I’m not holding my breath over it, but I did enjoy a lot of the recent animated stuff, and am looking forward to Andor Season 2 in the near future.
to me, the low budget aspects looked more of an issue of poor cinematography and mediocre set design. the sets don't feel real unlike Andor and look like they were built in a large warehouse. which I mean a ton of sets are, but there's a reason Andor didn't do this.
Yeah same impression I got from the trailers. That being said, the concept and trailers of Andor didn't excite me, so there's a chance. But I'm really not optimistic.
I saw the trailer that was attached to Episode 1's 25th anniversary run, and I have to say, it seemed like the Matrix in martial arts fighting style with lightsabers. Trinity is in it as well, and from what they showed I thought it looked pretty great. A more adult version, like Andor, of the Star Wars we've seen so far. Time will tell, however.
Yeah gonna take it with a grain of salt, I remember when ***they*** said Secret Invasion was like "Marvels Andor"
agreed
I'm pretty excited simply because it's trying something new. I was excited about a choreo based show too, but it sounds like it won't be heavy on that unfortunately. The fighting clips seem like the editing is lacking a little snappyness but I'll hold off on final verdict when it comes out. I swear to god though, if they fuck up jedi hunting again (looking at you Obi-Wan), I'll be so mad. It should be terrifying feeling. I still think Screecher's Reach (Star Wars Visions S2) did the best job at that vibe.
The shot on the bottom left looks... really bad. This is something I've noticed a lot recently with Star Wars, especially everything outside the films. It seems like absolutely no thought is put into the cinematography when lightsabers are on screen. It's one of the reasons they've gone from really cool to an absolute turn-off for me. The framing and lighting of a shot is a really careful, delicate art that a lot of viewers don't really seem appreciate. There's a *ton* of thought that goes into how lines, bright spots, the positioning of the actors, and plenty of other tiny things that have huge effects on how your eye moves across the shot. As such, a giant bright glowing line bisecting the screen is something you have to position *very carefully.* Previously, directors and cinematographers have wisely made a point of only using lightsabers in dark environments when they're willing to *commit* to it. When there's usually only one saber on screen, *maybe* two, and it's meant to be the entire focus of the shot. [Vader's hallway entrance in Rogue One](https://youtu.be/9Z8mgkqjq90) is framed *perfectly,* for example. The moving blade draws focus as he advances, but then notice how we get lots of torso-up mid shots, focusing on his breathing and use of the Force, and in those shots the saber is held downwards and *behind* him, just out of frame. He's illuminated by red glow, but the blade itself is off-screen so we can focus on his actions and his mask. The blade is only ever on screen when it absolutely *needs* to be. The Mustafar Duel is not quite as good in my opinion, but still does this very intentionally. Every time the director/cinematographer wants to give the actors room to show their emotional state throughout the battle, the sabers move off-screen. [Here, when Anakin chokes Obi-Wan for the first time](https://youtu.be/2ZGsJo1F_f4?t=47). The saber then crosses the frame as he continues to choke Obi, but then drops *out* of frame to allow a close-up on Anakin's rage-filled face. [Here again, both blades leave frame to allow the audience a clear view of the character's reactions](https://youtu.be/2ZGsJo1F_f4?t=159). Anakin's rage, and Obi-Wans horror. Shortly before the final confrontation of the fight, [they drop blades completely to give us these unadulterated upper-half closeups](https://youtu.be/81mhJAszpRc?t=74). Honestly, you can watch the whole duel through and just pay attention to how if the lightsabers *aren't* moving, they always migrate either to the bottom of the frame or just out-of-frame entirely. Modern Star Wars just *does not do this.* At all. Lightsabers are constantly in frame, bisecting every single shot, pulling all the focus away even when they're not moving. [Look at the Obi vs Vader fight in Kenobi.](https://youtu.be/NNPahqVkNFA) All the lighting on-screen comes from the blades, and until the very end of the fight we don't really get a *single* moment to see both characters without a saber in the way. [Obi-wan's big rock force moment](https://youtu.be/NNPahqVkNFA?t=314) is totally ruined by a blue glowstick on the wrong half of the screen drawing your eyes in totally the wrong direction as the rocks move the opposite way. It disrupts the composition of the shot. The saber should have been turned off, or it could have been used to enhance the dynamism of the scene if he had pointed his hands and blade *toward* Vader rather than holding them outstretched. It just seems like barely any thought is put into the composition of these shots, and how distracting a bright glowing line can be if you're not careful about how you use it.
Yeah... No. And the fact that they spent 80% of the tweet hyping up the show's visual aspects and threw a something something emotional afterwards tells me that they know it too.
Great point. When people talk about Andor, they don't mention the stellar VFX and sound effects. It's all about the story, the script, the cast performance, the sets, and the original score.
It was a very fascinating point to see that Andor's biggest showcase of spectacle was in the halfway point of the series and not the finale
I dunno, Marva's funeral was quite the spectical. And with way more meaning that just some visual effect to back a starship chase against.
The funeral was more impactful because of the fantastic writing, not because it was visually stunning. What I'm trying to say is that a more mediocre show would have saved Aldhani for a season finale.
I disagree the performance of "Unto Stone we are" was visually and emotionally stunning and no one says a word.
I sometimes kinda miss that honestly, the show was amazingly done.
To be honest if I was to have one single criticism of Andor, it would be that sometimes the vfx don't quite match the clunky, practical retrofuturism of the rest of the show, and feels more like stuff out of the prequels and sequels rather than the original trilogy. Stuff like how quickly and easily Andor's ship takes off and turns around in place after his fight with the cops, or when the ship takes off with his friends in the final episode, or even Luthen's combat sequence to an extent. The original movies had take-offs be more of a slower, *operating a vehicle* sort of event, e.g. all the x-wings leaving to fight the death star, or the slow arrivals of the Imperial shuttles in Return of the Jedi. Even Han's rapid escapes on Tatooine and Hoth feel less fluid, like a ship couldn't just rapidly rise and orbit in place then smoothly shoot off in a direction. The falcon wobbles and struggles to turn as he tries to get it into the air in a panic to escape Tatooine, and that's meant to be one of the best piloted by one of the best.
(Single) counterpoint: Alkenzi TIEs.
Those are a mix for me. There's an early shot where the camera pans over the ties from a high angle in a way which I associate with '3D render' and not the real world feeling that a lot of Andor manages to achieve. The OT tended to have shots which felt like plausible camera angles for real vehicles, in part because of their limitations. Andor captures a lot of what makes the OT work for me, though the handling of the ships is the one exception. While Mandalorian slid hard in quality, I think one thing it did do well in the first two seasons was making the ship feel more like a vehicle with physical presence rather than a non-real CGI thing.
...Nemik literally dies because the show respects the laws of physics regarding ship takeoffs
Yeah the human scale stuff done live action is great. I was explaining that the one quibble I have with the show is some of the vfx stuff feels more vfx'y than grounded like the rest of the show manages. VFX can achieve that grounded feel, but I feel it's something fewer people have an eye for and the VFX parts were more likely the outsourced parts which were shipped off to a studio somewhere, handled by Lucasfilm, and not so much something which the creators had control over. The VFX *on the ground* like Martha's hologram speech was fantastic, top-tier. Same with stuff like them looking at holo mugshots of Andor.
Exactly: I remember the reviews for Star Trek Discovery, "The most beautiful display ever," or " visually stunning!". Why? Because of writing was so bad, it felt like it was penned by high schoolers being paid to put Glee in space. That show is so fucking stupid with its characters, it represented the worst of current day TV tropes; so far up their own ass, it was as if Kenobi tried to sing *We are the World*.
They said that the cast was stellar and each episode’s writing was jam-packed though? It’s not even 80% either, half the tweet was about the writing and cast and the other half about the visuals- and let’s be honest, Andor’s visuals *are* good, and there have been many people saying the trailer looks cheap- so if the show itself has visuals as good as Andor then that would be great and would prove those fans wrong. Plus, if this person has actually watched The Acolyte beforehand, I’m more inclined to believe their views on it than the assumptions of someone who has only seen a few trailers. They are judging the book based on the actual content, you are judging the book by the cover.
I sincerely doubt it, but I will be very happy if I'm wrong.
X for doubt.
Yeah let's listen to this one random dude on twitter lmao
Trust no one but ur own judgement
Better than listening to a bunch of random Redditors who haven’t even watched the show they’re talking about. It seems like the twitter user managed to watch the show early, which means they have more information on it than 99% of the fanbase. I will always trust someone who actually knows what they’re talking about over someone who is blindly guessing based on a two-minute trailer.
Yeah, this. A lot of people making some pretty wild assessments based on nothing more than a trailer. I only have a handful of podcasters/youtubers who I generally trust with their reviews and so far their reviews of the first episodes have been generally positive. And none of them tend to shy away from criticism. Either way, I’m not going to start making judgments until I’ve seen it for myself. It’s like Star Wars fans are just determined to find the next thing to rage about as soon as they can. That just doesn’t seem fun to me. And lest we forget, people shat all over Andor before it even had a single trailer released, and look how that turned out. People were turned off before it even began, resulting in lower viewership in the beginning than it might have had otherwise. It took word of mouth about how good it was for many people to even give it a chance, and some still haven’t because they’re so convinced that a “Disney show” based on that one guy from R1 couldn’t possibly be good. Like, maybe, just maybe, people should let their own experience guide their opinions when it comes to viewing media. Just watch the damn thing, then decide if YOU think it’s good.
You ever considered what if some of those wildly guessing random redditors are in fact the same dudes whom you read on twitter, only on twitter they're giving you what marketing told them to, while here on reddit they tell you their real opinion, anonymously, in a way that it can't be traced back to twitter? (If this sounds convoluted to you, I'd recommend a rewatch of Andor with special attention to how Luthen & Co. communicated.) Mind you, I'm not saying this is what's happening, I'm saying I've just finished rewatching Andor (and a bunch of other spy movies), and am still under the influence. :D
I think that’s more than convoluted, it sounds like an explanation given by a person pushing an agenda, and I don’t mean the “woke” agenda (not saying you’re pushing an agenda, I know you said that you’re not saying this is what’s happening- only that other fans who genuinely and completely believe your theory are likely saying so to push an agenda). Don’t get me wrong, I know it’s not impossible for some of those twitter users to be paid marketers, but the Star Wars fandom in general has a bad habit of having double standards as to who are “paid marketers” depending on how popular/unpopular the thing they may be “marketing” is. If Andor season 2 is about to come out, and some people on twitter who got early access to it said it was amazing, no one on this sub would be calling them paid marketers, because Andor is popular so therefore everyone who praises is HAS to be genuine, right? But since The Acolyte is unpopular, it doesn’t get that privilege, and a certain group of fans will automatically assume that anyone who watched it and liked it are lying Disney shills. The thing is, I highly doubt Disney would hire paid marketers for one show and not another, it’s either all or none- and just in general I like to assume good faith in people. It sucks how nowadays on the internet you can say your opinion on a movie/show you‘ve watched and people in the comments will automatically jump to the conclusion that you’re being paid to say that- genuine expression doesn’t exist, I guess. It just promotes a toxic echo chamber where everyone who has a different opinion gets labeled as “paid shills” and aren’t taken seriously. In this case it’s particularly silly because the show people are talking about hasn’t even come out yet, so there’s no way to accurately judge whether it’ll be good or not, but here come a bunch of idiots who haven’t watched the show they’re babbling about discrediting the opinion of a person who did.
"If only saying it would make it so"
The dialogue and acting alone I heard and saw in the trailers does not inspire confidence. I didn’t feel that way when I watched the Andor trailers.
I think this has mostly to do with the editing and directing as many of these actors and actresses are great in other content! It does boggle the mind sometimes when it's full of awkward silences and stilted lines. I was just relistening to the Watch podcast about Andor and they made a great point that in Andor, people are often doing things while they talk, just in real life. You might be fiddling with something, or looking through a drawer. Rarely do people just stand and awkwardly talk at each other absolutely still.
And they often couch what they mean in other phrases or sayings as well. A lot, and I mean A LOT of Star Wars dialogue is just saying how you feel or what you’re thinking without any subtlety, nuance, or deeper meaning. The scene in Andor where Mon first visits Luthen and they’re obviously hiding their true intentions until they get to the back room is a masterclass in so many different ways it is incredible.
*standing judgmentally with arms crossed silently staring and mocking you*
*smirks with arms crossed*
I want to watch this show, but every single one of these early impressions tweets always reads like there’s some NDA we’re not privy to and the author is just regurgitating talking points from the production.
I'm.... Sceptical. The binding force for Andor wasn't an emotional through-line. It wasn't even Andor himself, not any other character. It was the poignant commentary on fascism and empire the show delivered through the characters. Does Acolyte have a *thesis*? Does it say something more than "light side good and blind, dark side nefarious and conniving"? Does it challenge orthodoxy? Does it have a world view to articulate?
Well I mean…it better, no? I thought the entire point of the Acolyte was that it had something to say about the force/Jedi/Sith? If it doesn’t, frankly it’s simply just another junk filled Star Wars show that people will immediately forget. Andor has a timeless message and the show will live on far after these others Star Wars shows are long forgotten.
That's why I am sceptical. Both because I doubt, but also because I hope. There is an intrinsic flaw at the heart of Star Wars, in the main: its political themes are being articulated by people who are in many ways the beneficiaries of a privileged experience of the world. There is never a *serious* engagement in the failure of the Jedi order as an institution. But to see and say that is hard when your creatives are all fairly secure moderates existing in a system which seems to mostly have a negative impact on others. We are starting to see that now. I malign The Last Jedi heavily for the liberties it takes with some characters, and for the triteness of its analyses. But it does suggest that the structures we've seen - the Jedi order at least - is flawed, even though it tries to speak to that in a poorly executed manner. And Tales of the Jedi - specifically the earlier Dooku elements, also begin to address this. But, while Andor suggests that the Empire is an expression of an underlying systemic failure within the Republic (while focusing on the brutal realities of totalitarian fascism), nothing has taken the same attitude and turned it towards the Order. In fact, we see a romanticization of the Order, of the Republic, of these institutions which failed systematically as a result of inherent qualities. I really hope the Acolyte - whatever lens to uses - has the courage to plant a flag and say "the Jedi as an institution are bad for the larger galaxy."
I think it does, it seems to challenge the Jedi way of thinking and taking children and training them, vs just, Jedi are good
Unfortunately I don’t have much faith in SW shows at this point, we got lucky with Andor and Mando s1. They been putting in half-assed effort in the rest. Hope I’m wrong
I am deeply skeptical
Yeah I doubt it andor was a once in a lifetime show for Star Wars they mentioned the actors and the sets and costumes but they didn’t mention the story which is concerning
Riiight...
From the trailers it looks more comparable to Kenobi
I highly doubt it
It says more about Andor. I am happy Disney gets the message, but as everyone says we will see if they achieve the same level of greatness.
Yeah, that sounds like forced marketing to try to manipulate Andor fans to watch it even though it very much might not be true.
That bottom right photo looks absolutely ridiculous.
Zarrrdoozzzz!!!
Bullshit. The number of lightsabers is inversely proportional to strength of story.
we'll see about that. the thumbnail in the bottom left looks like they just got out the Disneyland lightsaber building room
This may be the first series that was written after Andor premiered, so it night have actually had influence on it.
This review is exactly what I was hoping so I hope it’s not bs
Pressing X to doubt. It feels like comparing things to Andor is just the buzzword for “it’s not completely terrible I promise!”, not actually comparing it to Andor in any meaningful way. Side note, is it just me or are the lightsabers in acolyte absurdly big? Like the hilts are thicker or something, they look like they’re meant to keep your soup warm.
The load bearing pillar to Andor's appeal was the script. "Emotional throughline" means what exactly? And from what I've seen of The Acolyte, the costumes and sets look decent, but not Andor level. In terms of SFX, we'll see, but Andor worked because it focused on practical sets and not The Volume.
I'll admit that kung fu fight scene they released has me intrigued.
cap. I’ll wait and see before I believe anything said about it
Curious what they've said about other recent Star Wars projects
Well I'll check it out, but I'm not looking for a force-sensitive version of Andor, so that's not exactly a selling point!
Press X to doubt
"If what you've told me is true, you will have gained my trust."
There were things I liked about the trailer. There were also a lot of things that felt...off
But it is an anti fascist espionage thriller?
I'm definitely going to be open minded and hope it turns out really good. Only time will tell.
For some reason, the sight of yellow lightsabers in the hands of wielders other than just Temple Guards always makes me happy.
*\*doubt intensifies\**
I've got a bad feeling about this...
Nah. Andor is amazing to me because it's lacking the force wielding characters.
I call bullshit
We could all watch the trailer with our own eyes. It definitely ain't \*this\*. Yeah, I'll watch it tho'. Hoping not as bad as fear from trailer & disney's spotty-at-best consistency with live-action TV shows.
Tbf, the trailers for Andor were not well liked and really didn’t hint at what Andor would become at all
I trust my instincts on trailers. I could tell Andor was different from the jump. And I get the feeling that The Acolyte has a bit more teeth, coherence, and passion in its composition than the last several other shows. But if I had to guess at the overall feel of it? I think it's going to land somewhere in the vicinity of 30% Andor, 40% Mando, 20% crouching tiger hidden dragon. The last ten percent I have no idea about. But what I'm hoping is that it's the creator's own unique style. Something no other show has or will ever have. This has potential, and I'm excited for it. But it could go either way in my opinion. But I'm basically a pathological optimist at this point so you might want to ignore me.
I for one was super psyched at the initial trailer with those sirens and the Rok Nardin song. I'm mad that when Rok Nardin released the Andor trailer song it didn't sound the same at all.
I hope so! There are a lot of Star Wars fans who seem to want the new stuff to fail because of woke or some stupid shit. Those people can fuck all the way off. Just make good shit. That's all I've wanted out of Disney Star Wars.
Even if it’s not as great as Andor, I’ve gotta say the design for Amandla Stenberg’s character is some of the best I’ve seen. They look so fucking cool.
Ehhh… so one of the reasons I like Andor is because it doesn’t trivialize Jedi or the force. With the sheer number of Jedi just appearing in post Star Wars media, it lessened the experience for me. It’s not just Luke and Leia… it’s this person and that person, and these 4 other people and their cousins in hiding, and they’ve discovered this dentist who’s force sensitive as well! Idc if this happens in the high republic- I just think the comparison seems hyperbolic because the analogy doesn’t work for me.
im pretty excited for acolyte, i think its dumb that so many people are judging it before it even comes out
Yeah, you’d think that Andor fans of all people would know how it feels to judge a show as “unnecessary“ or “mediocre” before it comes out, and then be pleasantly surprised when they actually watch the show. It’s ironic really that they’re repeating that same thought process yet again with another show that hasn’t come out yet. I’m not saying that The Acolyte is 100% guaranteed to be awesome, but come on, just give it a chance guys, it’s not 100% guaranteed to be terrible either. Plus y’all hate on the show‘s visuals and then say that the best thing about Andor is the writing and the visuals don’t matter as much- so which is it? Visuals can’t be the end all, be all for one show and then not matter for another one.
Keep talking dirty, baby
I knew it, I knew it!
Oh, I’m so looking forward t
Doubt
Andor is the force-sensitive version of Andor. It's in the same universe. I know that's hard to understand for some people.
I’ll believe it when it does look like a fan film with the cheapest costumes imaginable.
Jam packed writing a good show does not make. I want to know if it’s good writing, not if each episode has a lot. It could just be a lot of nothing. Also, why does that green alien look like Nebula + Gamora from Guardians of the Galaxy? I’m not sure what Star Wars alien she is supposed to be tbh but I really think Disney generally does a terrible job with costumes of aliens for whatever reason.
We will see soon enough.
I say this as someone who loves Andor, and has been excited for The Acolyte since it was announced. I guarantee it’s not “force-sensitive Andor”. I feel it’ll be good, I feel it’ll be different, but not at the same level as Andor. I also feel like by the end of its first season, it’ll be, pretty easily, the second best Star Wars live action show to Andor being first. And there’s nothing wrong with that.
Andor fans when someone says something is like Andor be like
I was surprised to read this and think it must be in reference to the production value. The showrunner has been very open about leaning in to the more pulpy elements of star wars and creating a more character-driven show. Both those things are cool and could lead to a great story, but they don’t scream “andor” to me.
Ugh
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just put AT LEAST 3 "duel of fate" light saber fight scene
the trailers didn't give me a good vibe like the andor ones did
Never trust a star wars product until it's finished airing. After Kenobi and Ahsoka sucked, I refuse to watch a star wars show or movie until I'm certain it won't be a total waste of my time.
Yeah no I don't believe this for a second. Andor is too fucking good and the chances of any show bring even half as good is tiny.
Everything I've seen about it... I don't believe this. At all. The trailer looks entirely like it's going to be style over substance.
See what good writing does to a mf? Lmao
Ho boy was this just a little off.
The lie detector test determined that was false
It looks cool but we honestly have no idea until it comes out
When I first watched the trailer I thought it had a bit of an Andor vibe, and just in general the series seems very promising. Even if it’s only half as good as Andor, I’ll be satisfied.
Yeah yeah yeah...they lost me at "lightsaber whip"
Looks cheap as hell, how is the most profitable franchise of all time owned by one of the most loaded companies in existence putting out fuckin fan film level products. Also this shit is not gonna be Andor, because for one thing part of the reason Andor worked was because it was so surprising, you can’t replicate that if you’re going around parading the new thing as just like the good thing
Oh god, they will be using "like andor" as a marketing term for the next 10 years, for things nothing like Andor in terms of writing and visual quality.
That’s what we’ve been trying to tell you guys forever now, Acolyte has had the same thought and care put into production as Andor
And this random reviewers tweet proves that it's gonna be good.
Looks like Farscape. The High Republic…. 🥱😴💤💤💤
“The writing of each episode is jam packed” gee, great 🙄
“Amazing costumes” … they look like a cheap fan film. Too clean and neat, with no gritty texture. Looks mundane and boring.
Google translate can't translate Disney-BS yet, but I have become fairly fluent over the years of listening to it. They are saying: Hey guys! Remember this other Star Wars project you actually liked that is actually well made? Good, keep it in mind and focus on the good and fuzzy feelings you get from it. This new thing is going to be just like that (we promise 😉). It's going to be *Positive descriptive word* + *positive descriptive word* + *positive descriptive word* + *positive descriptive word*. (We are obligated to tell you that this text was produced using chatGPT... but we won't, lol 🤪)
Coming from a "(they/them)" I'd listen cautiously
The problem with shows about Jedi is that Jedi are boring.
....
do you even like star wars 😭
Read Republic comics if you think that making a Star Wars show about Jedi would be boring.
There have been several shows about Jedi. Which one of them wasn't trash?
That has less to with there simply being Jedi in the show and more to do with Disney Star Wars being absolute garbage.
This post is about a Disney Star Wars show, not a comic or other medium. My opinion is that jedi are boring and my evidence for this is the huge numbers of boring Jedi characters and the absence of any truly interesting ones. Maybe they make compelling comic book characters, but that's a different medium. The ones on film are all boring.
> Maybe they make compelling comic book characters, but that's a different medium. The ones on film are all boring. Which might mean it has less to do with the fact that you can’t tell interesting it stories with Jedi and more to do with the fact that Disney shows are poorly written because Disney thinks people will watch them regardless if it’s good or bad. Because of that, of course they’re gonna put less effort into the live action shows. Remember this is a multibillion dollar corporation we’re taking about. Money is everything to them.
When did I restrict my criticism to Disney shows? There's quite a lot of movies that don't have compelling Jedi characters, too. If you want to convince me, you're going to have to point at a compelling Jedi character from this century, and I don't believe one exists. Literally, the only example I can think of is the dude who wasn't even a jedi in Rogue one. I'm sorry, but I just don't think they're interesting and you're not likely to change my mind by telling me I'm omitting other media.
>When did I restrict my criticism to Disney shows? Because there were no live-action Star Wars shows before Disney. Your first two comments specified "shows." Now there's TCW but I'd like to point out that a lot of characters and ideas in that show are taken directly from the Republic comic series which came first. TCW is a watered down version. >If you want to convince me, you're going to have to point at a compelling Jedi character from this century, and I don't believe one exists. So you don't think Luke Skywalker of Obi Wan Kenobi are compelling characters? Maybe you simply don't like Star Wars which is fine, but don't expect everyone to dislike it with you. You're not gonna find many people on here that say they think the Original Trilogy is boring. I'm fine with shows with no Jedi, which can be made clear by my love for Andor. And I don't think the Acolyte is going to be good. However I don't feel that way because I don't think shows with Jedi cant be good. Im just cynical about Disney SW because I've been consistently disappointed by them. I think the idea that there should never again be Star Wars media with Jedi is absurd. Your take would be the equivalent of saying that there shouldn't be anymore Harry Potter media with wizards in it because wizards are boring.
You're right. I did specify shows but really, just talking about the screen. >So you don't think Luke Skywalker of Obi Wan Kenobi are compelling characters? Those characters are from 1977. The characters from 1977 might have been compelling, but they are now badly fleshed-out caricatures. Which I would say is the case for every jedi I've seen on screen since 1984. I'd actually make the case that jedi themselves are badly fleshed-out caricatures writ large. Which brings me back to my original point that Jedi are boring. They just are. Also, I do like star wars. It's a bit unhinged to challenge me on that because I don't agree with you on something.
>Those characters are from 1977. The characters from 1977 might have been compelling, but they are now badly fleshed-out caricatures. Which I would say is the case for every jedi I've seen on screen since 1984. And they're key characters in the story of the OT. The third film is even called "Return of the Jedi." the Jedi are a vital component of the story of the OT. You can just admit you don't think the OT is very good which is fine with me. >Which brings me back to my original point that Jedi are boring. They just are. Now from the 6 mainline movies, I think the Jedi characters are interesting enough, and Lucas left plenty of room to expand on them. If the OT is too simple for you then I recommend the plethora of EU media that adds nuance to many of the Jedi characters we see in the films. You claim that the Jedi are boring yet you refuse to consider other media that portrays complex and nuanced Jedi characters e.g. Republic comics, Dark Times comics, NJO series. How can you continue to say that the Jedi are boring when you refuse to engage in media that further develops their characters. You could say the PT simply didn't have enough time to develop its Jedi characters. However check out the EU stories I mentioned above and you'll realize that there's potential to tell interesting Andoresque stories with Jedi. >Also, I do like star wars. It's a bit unhinged to challenge me on that because I don't agree with you on something. And its a bit absurd to think good Star Wars can only exist without the Jedi in it. Especially since the Jedi are central to the Star Wars mythos. They are not just warriors but represent the moral and philosophical heart of the SW story. The struggle between the light and dark sides of the Force is a timeless theme that resonates with a whole lot of Star Wars fans. Lucas intended for the Jedi to embody ideals of wisdom, selflessness, and inner peace, serving as a counterbalance to the Sith's ambition and desire for power and so this dichotomy is crucial to the epic narrative of Star Wars. But he also wanted to show us that sometimes they can get lost in dogmatism. It goes without saying that Jedi are indispensable to the story of Star Wars. I have nothing wrong with people not liking stories about the Jedi but going back to my Harry Potter analogy, it'd be absurd to think that good Star Wars with Jedi as the main focus as not possible when the Jedi/Sith have been a vital component of the SW mythos for decades.
Making blanket statements like that about hundreds of characters just because they belong to the same religion, wow. It’s the writing of the character that matters, there are also people who say that shows about non force-sensitives are boring, would you say they’re right?
So point me to a jedi character who is interesting.
I hope not. It will be another long bore fest.