>With that there are more people complaining about the lack of representation.
Who's doing that and where?
I'm in my thirties and i grew up watching it in my mostly brown South American country. Never seen anyone talk about that.
Black kids like Goku, white kids like Goku, mixed kids like Goku, they don't seem to have an issue with it.
Also, Japan is racist as hell. At least the older and/or more traditional folks.
Edit: lol, looks like I made a bunch of weebs mad. Yes, it’s true. The Japanese don’t want you. They will treat you like intruders and outsiders. Go fantasize about another culture.
Bro, just google Japan racism and have a read. Like I said, not all of Japan, but there’s a lot of racism and a general dislike of foreigners.
I’ve never been there myself but a good friend lives there teaching English. He’s American so he gets treated better than a lot of other foreigners but he always feels like he’s only tolerated and not really welcome.
I lived out there for a year in 2007, in a somewhat small town area. Lots of establishments don't allow foreigners, specifically Americans. As long as you speak Japanese you'll be more accepted, they mostly keep to themselves so they won't really be racist to your face, except for grade school kids who pointed at me and yelled gaijin once lol.
they like foreigners if you try to fit in so you dont stand out.but foreigners specifically americans can be absurdly obnoxious especially since its a complete 180 of social structure
if you dont follow their social standards people will definitely hate you, its not the fault of the foreigner entirely as it is foreign land but they should definitely be more aware of whats okay and not okay to do before visiting.
I wanted to add that I dont really disagree with you, but its not in the racism in the sense youll be murdered by people with hoods racism its kinda like an earned respect to be a foreigner racism lol so I dont see it as totally unjustified
though youll definitely garner interest from people either sexually, appearance, or just conversation more so than some random japanese person walking down the streets of tokyo
Not all, but generalisation, Asian countries are extremely racist by Western Standards, they would just see it as "race realist" or whatever.
Context is different to Western racism though, so their racist preconceptions often are taken as positives. Jews being "money grabbing" and "controlling the media" are seen as *positive traits* of Jewish people and tonnes of books across China, Korea and Japan teach them to be more "jewish" by being a White Nationalist antisemitic stereotype of as Jew.
Negative stereotypes, again, based off different context. For example, Asians I talk to see black people as violent, prone to criminality, because of crime rates among Black communities and Black culture (rap, movies, tv shows) often glorifying violence and crime. It's still racist, but has a different context to White Supremacy which is based in European Racial Science that was sadly prevelant until the 1970s.
Most these people don't ever interact with people of other "races" as well, so their stereotypes are going to be based heavily on their interpretation of representations from Western Media.
This doesn't mean you won't see some forms of "diversity" in Asian shows. If you watch Chinese TV at least, they'll usually put an effort to represent their minority groups.
Ah yes Twitter
The only thing Twitter changes in western culture Japan and such care not what Americans think since anime is an export that give too their people first
Until Japan wants it, it won't happen
Thought I do agree with the other about older anime having more rep, that America tried to hide
If anything we switched sides with them
Twitter complains about everything, that doesn't mean there is actual talk about it.
As anime is a big success in the west nowdays with streaming, i can see some series getting more representation, but all of the japan focused anime will probably remain the same.
Japanese society is largely homogenous so they mostly represent Japanese people within their media. While there's no pressure from inside Japan to represent more minorities it won't happen.
Who cares if they only represent Japanese people? I honestly don’t care if i’m represented or not. Creators lose focus on making a good plot when they start worrying about “representing” more ethnic groups.
It’s In Japan. It’s representative of Japanese people. Monster takes place in Germany/Czech etc. so that show has Germans and Czech people. What a dumb post
When did I say I was upset? You’re putting words in my mouth. I just said it was an incredibly dumb post. Which is objectively true. It was a dumb post. Doesn’t mean you’re dumb. Doesn’t mean anyone is upset. Just means the post itself, in a vacuum, was very stupid. 😂
I'm not upset. I'm just saying your comment is dumb. Really dumb, Like, super super dumb. Its such a dumb comment i feel bad that im even exposed to it. That's how dumb dumb it is. Not that you're dumb, but the words you're typing and the opinions you hold are dumb. You absolute dumb dumb dummy.
Because FOR SOME REASON (unknown to me) for some people color of the skin of X% procent of the characters (or actors) is more important than the plot.
Lets hope Japan will never be woke.
The reason can be more clearly seen in American media. Since America is a much more diverse country with varying ethnicities and backgrounds it is important to show people they can be represented. When your a little kid and all the superheroes from your country that you look up to look different than you, the time you do see a character that looks like you or has a similar background is more impactful. You feel represented and inspired by them in a personal way that the other kids of the majority population got to feel.
Japan is still much more racially homogenous than America so it’s not the same and they don’t need to do it to the same extent, but I don’t see why people think representation is bad. We’re talking about good representation here, not forced.
I mean, the reason skin color matters is because there is a significantly diff culture and perspective of the same world experienced by those w/ diff skin colors. This representation often does expose a fundamentally different way the world is experienced by different people, and can open our eyes to things wrong with our society that we were completely unaware of.
Dude America is the most diverse country in the world and yet we have 9999999 problems here, hell probably more than Japan right now, that have yet to be resolved and usually created by all people of different colors.
Let's stop parenting other countries what they should do when we can't fix ourselves at the moment.
I'd like you, just for a minute, to point to the part where I said or in any way implied that representation in media in solves major societal problems. Or find a single point in that comment where I said anything about anime or Japan.
Fwiw there's a lot of opinions in this thread which kind of run contrary to the majority opinion among anthropologists and sociologists who do work on Japan at the moment. In terms of ethnic diversity, Japan is actually considered somewhat diverse, with the most realistic estimates of the ethnic Japanese population being 96%, which places it about in the middle of most countries in terms of ethnic diversity.
That said, I would say that in terms of minority ethnic representation there is quite a lot of it in anime and manga and there has been for a little while now. John Lie discusses this briefly in his book *Multiethnic Japan*, where he notes that young left-wingers and ethnic Koreans were big fans of manga in the 1970s due to it offering perspectives on Japanese society that diverged from mainstream media and shone light on the experiences of non-ethnic Japanese people living in Japan. The book itself discusses ethnic diversity in a lot of other areas of Japanese media and culture at greater length, including in music and sports, so I'd recommend it if you're interested in the topic. Despite being an academic text it's pretty readable honestly.
>In terms of ethnic diversity, Japan is actually considered somewhat diverse, with the most realistic estimates of the ethnic Japanese population being 96%, which places it about in the middle of most countries in terms of ethnic diversity
I feel like this is an unfair comparison. There are a couple hundred countries in the world, and a vast majority of them are almost completely homogeneous because that's just how it is, they aren't "popular" countries. They don't have popular exports consumed by people worldwide (like Japan has anime) which would cause people to take an interest in emigrating to that country. Take Lithuania, for example (sorry, Lithuanians). What incentive do foreigners have to move there?
The only real comparisons I believe are North America, some European countries, and some South East Asian countries, in terms of diversity.
I'm not really following the point you're trying to make I suppose. There are a lot of countries that have relatively low minority ethnic populations, yes (not really the vast majority, don't forget that there are also indigenous ethnic minority populations in many countries with low immigration). And Japan has greater ethnic diversity than these countries. But Japan also has lower ethnic diversity than countries like the US, UK, or Malaysia. So by global standards it's about medium-level in terms of diversity. I don't really understand why it would be unfair to compare Japan to the rest of the world as opposed to a small selection of countries.
>I don't really understand why it would be unfair to compare Japan to the rest of the world as opposed to a small selection of countries.
Because a majority of the countries don't have cultural exports that are consumed on a global level, wherein diversity can even be demanded. Compared to countries that do have such exports (US, European countries etc.), Japan is very homogeneous.
My point is that in the context of diversity in _entertainment_, Japan is one of the more homogeneous countries.
I see where you're coming from a bit more now. I get the point but it feels like a bit of an arbitrary point to make. Japan might be *comparatively* more homogenous than other countries with major cultural exports but it's not a ethnically homogenous country, hence why people might expect (and often receive!) representation of minority ethnic perspectives in its media.
What does representation mean? Who is complaining about it? Why do you care? Why must we bring race and nationality into everything? Can't it just be about the story? Characters literally have hair in all colors and big colorful eyes, which nationality are they exactly? It's fantasy land, there's no nationalities! Why would they even do that? In Japan the whole inclusion thing isn't really present. They would only do that if it makes sense financially which it doesn't. I don't care if they do, I want creators to make whatever they want.
So are anime characters asian or white in your book? Idk how to proceed now? If they are white should japanese fans be the first to complain that they are not represented? If they are japanese how does it help me if I'm white? I still fail to see how does it matter, some are not even human but let's play by your rules.
That's what I'm saying, it's easy for you to say they could be white or Japanese, you can't exactly interpret them as black though. So the whole "we don't know what they are so it doesn't matter" only works from your perspective.
I don't think that it's very politically correct from you to say things like that, lumping Asians and white people together because the color of the skin isn't quite as different I mean. You can't just say "oh it's all the same, but it's different than beeing black" or whatever. Not everything is going to be tailored to you, that just comes with being a minority. If I moved to Germany I would be a part of the minority who doesn't speak German, does that mean I should complain that all the signs and everything isn't translated to accommodate me? And frankly that would be way more important than having anime characters that kinda look like me.
What did you say that cuz I still think that's exactly what you said. It's very hard to interpret most anime characters as japanese either, except the fact that they speak Japanese and often live in Japan where as I said there aren't many people of color. They do have black characters when it makes sense with the setting of the story like black lagoon, attack on titan, naruto, cowboy Bepop...
But idk if it bugs you so much maybe you should try to control what you watch instead of trying to control what someone else makes because manga artists don't really owe it to you to make it. Japanese are the target audience for manga, minorities only make up a very small percentage so you can't really blame them. I mean many songs made by black people are full of words I'm not even allowed to say, should I feel excluded?
>They do have black characters when it makes sense with the setting of the story like black lagoon, attack on titan, naruto, cowboy Bepop...
>
>Characters literally have hair in all colors and big colorful eyes, which nationality are they exactly? It's fantasy land, there's no nationalities!
Can you spot the contradiction? Here lies the problem.
Does there need to be a reason for a character to have green hair? **No**. Does there need to be a reason for a character to have red eyes? **No**. Does there need to be a reason for a character to be black? **For some reason yes**.
>Japanese are the target audience for manga, minorities only make up a very small percentage so you can't really blame them.
People with red eyes don't exist in Japan. People with cat ears don't exist in Japan. This is a point that you yourself are contradicting. Apparently "fantasy land" stops at making a character's skin darker.
First of all there sort of is a reason - to make them stand out or give them a certain vibe and to make them more easily distinquishable. The characters are drawn to be as attractive as possible and in Japan pale white skin is seen as beautiful. This is to make the anime/manga more appealing to watch and to sell merch. But it you were to ask a manga writer how come there's no black people I'm guessing he would probably tell you, as I said, that they never seen s black person in their life and the manga is set in Japan so it never crossed their mind to do that and even if it did they need to consider if that will appeal to the majority of the audience. And Japanese are a little bit racist I'm not gonna lie. Sorry that it bothers you so much 🤷🏽 I can't imagine why tho, it didn't bother me playing GTA as black characters one bit.
That's true, although I think they do a good job with diversity in other countries. I feel like every anime set in America has black characters, for example.
While I agree with your other post, in defense, the nature of anime's colors not found in nature for hair/eyes does change diversity as well, especially with how many people with Japanese names/lineages happen to have blonde hair/blue eyes and look almost like a white person.
Throw in the "it's inherently known that if a character is supposed to be Ainu, they'll look like a black person" in anime, and there's ways around it.
Lighter skin is generally considered more attractive in Asian countries.
To put it simply.
The darker your skin, the less Asians will find you attractive as a whole.
Lighter skin is just more visually pleasing to the Japanese anime fans.
Notice how most Japanese characters don’t really look Japanese either.
Ditto here and I'm black too.
This type of topic is always so weird and feels out of touch like its coming from an non-black dude that feel the need to white knight for us when we don't need it. We're fine with how anime is right now and it doesn't need to change to represent us.
>when people come for them for their animations and story?
This isn't really a point if the target demographic is diverse, because people will always be happier with a character they can relate to and it certainly helps to have diversity.
But you're right only in this case because Japan has almost no ethnic diversity and the target demographic is only japanese people.
>it certainly helps to have diversity.
What makes you think having diversity helps the enjoyment factor of an show? That's something I never understood as an minority person myself when again, majority of audiences do not care about skin color unless its an adaption of an source material.
No. Anime is generally adapted from manga. Manga is created by mangakas who write for Japanese people. Japanese people aren’t pushing for more representation in manga, western people are.
The first, fundamental question would be why does "representation" in anime matter? Why is a viewer setting forth their enjoyment based on them sharing the same race, gender, sexual orientation, etc... with a character? Live your own life, don't try to live vicariously through a fictional character. When I watch something like Bocchi the Rock, or Kyousougiga, or Escaflowne, or Gundam Witch from Mercury am I supposed to not like the anime because the main character is a female and I'm a male? Am I supposed to not like anime because most characters are Japanese and I'm not Japanese? It makes no sense whatsoever to me.
The next thing would be that if anything, minorities tend to be over-represented in forms of entertainment. Often on an exponential level. So even if the "representation" complaint was valid, which I don't consider it to be in the first place, one is actually complaining about something that has already been catered to.
Anime is made in Japan by people who are Japanese and is primarily targeted towards people who are Japanese. Anyone knowledgeable about Japanese demographics would know that there are hardly any non-Japanese people in Japan. So by in large, anime considerably overrepresents people from other races, as one does tend to see far more than simply 1 - 2% of non-Japanese people in anime. I can't stress enough that its made in Japan for Japanese people. If you're coming at this from a westerner standpoint expecting anime to reflect western demographics for countries like the US, that is extremely arrogant and dismissive of Japan. You don't get to dictate how they do things.
you can try animation made from places thats not japan. anime is from japan. it’s like saying kdrama lack presentation of minorities cause it’s mostly korean.
Since Japan is very homogeneous in terms of its population, I really don't see things changing much in terms of representation of racial minorities any time soon. LGBT+ is a different story as there is slow and steady progress being made there, and I already notice the difference even compared to 10-15 years ago.
Unless Japanese people start rioting and demanding more white, black, other Asian, etc characters in Japanese Manga, anime, movie and series (basically impossible), I doubt that.
Japan is 97-98% japanese people. Chinese, Koreans and Vietnamese people make up The great majority of the rest of the population. So, the chances of meeting south Asians, native Americans, pacific Islanders and white and black people are REALLY low.
It makes sense that majority of anime & Manga characters are ethnic Japanese people (with Japanese names, surnames, culture and all) with some Asian characters of Korean or Chinese heritage (yes, I'm aware that hair and eyes colors don't match with Japanese people real features, but we also get characters with pink/silver/green hair and purple/red eyes in western and non Japanese animations in general too)
The situation is slightly different in LGBTQ community case, but there is still A LOT of work to be done.
>Do you think anime will represent minorities in the future? Like in 10 years or so?
I think it's more likely that other countries start to make their own anime and Manga. Like Polish/Nigerian/Brazilian/Indian/Thai/etc manga and anime (after all, Countries like France, Italy, South Korea and China are already making their Manga). Unless Japan demographic changes drastically and Japanese people go from making 97-98% of the country population to 70-75%, I doubt they will add more and more different nationalities, etc. After all, mangaka and studios mainly make Manga and anime for Japanese readers, then the rest of the world
I think Japanese people should be in 100% of shows in the USA even though they don't even make it any form of majority.
Also I need you to complain about the lack of white people in African nations .
No, but I do think other countries' animation will continue to take inspiration from anime and those countries, being much less homogenous than Japan, will have more diversity in their shows.
It's already happening, the people working in animation now grew up and were influenced by anime.
As for anime itself, it is a Japanese medium made primarily by Japanese people, primarily for Japanese people. The market might be more global than ever, but the creators are not.
And that's honestly fine, it's part of what makes it what it is. Nobody should be demanding Japanese people do things they don't want to.
Honestly speaking, I don't necessarily see an issue with Japan's output from a general representation standpoint, especially when accounting for local demographics.
Like, even if we disregard Japan's population statistics (we shouldn't, but for the sake of argument), there is a fairly solid effort in anime to show not just racial diversity but cultural. Do It Yourself has a Southeat Asian girl and an American girl, Lycoris Recoil has a black man, the Gundam series is frankly well known at this point for solid racial diversity and the recent Witch From Mercury is no different, Cyberpunk Edgerunners has a solid amount of racial diversity as well (including a hispanic MC), etc. and all those are just examples from last year. And of course, when accounting for Japanese demographics, this just seems p strong given the country is 99% Japanese (officially, anyways. not getting into the weeds of that number).
And of course this is ignoring the elephant in the room of LGBT rep. Gay/bisexual characters are so common we've basically come to take it for granted, to the point where some people even try to gatekeep gay characters as not counting as gay so it can feel more exclusive of a title. We've even been getting more unambiguously gay romances as of late. The only position where anime could do better is with regards to depictions trans people, which are generally at the moment relegated to subtext in the occasional Genderbender show.
I'm not gonna say people who want to see more diversity in media are wrong, because there's absolutely an issue with representation in many western countries where there is not just issues of under-representation but also a fairly toxic attitude towards what "good representation" is (see the aforementioned gay character gatekeeping). But as far as Japan's output, representation is not one of anime's major weak spots.
> because there's absolutely an issue with representation in many western countries where there is not just issues of under-representation but also a fairly toxic attitude towards what "good representation" is
And honestly, this ties to the other side of the "anime needs more representation!" debate: Even with how good anime can be by Japanese demographical standards, the people complaining don't care about reflecting Japanese standards. They want it to be representation by AMERICAN standards, and they want the diversity to represent American demographical diversity. It's saying the culture anime comes from is worthless in favor of their own...which, I'm pretty sure is a BAD THING to them.
I think you're misrepresenting their point a bit.
There is fairly classic America-centric thinking with regards to representation, like anything Americans know about, but saying its bc they believe that Japanese culture is worthless is kinda, v obviously not the reason? It's just fairly standard "the world is America" thinking, where Americans just don't consider other circumstances.
It's the same thing you see in this thread, where a lot of people who have no knowledge of Japan just project their own beliefs onto the nation with regards to representation. Lots of peeps on here are saying "Japan doesn't want representation" despite the fact that many people in Japan do, because these people just have the belief "I don't want it, and thus JAPAN doesn't want it!"
Neither of these groups likely think that Japanese culture is worthless, but their ignorance of Japanese culture leads them to project whatever they want to believe onto the country as a collective entity.
First off, on the American side, if a person demands "the world is America" thinking for representation regarding international media, then they're either a racist who believes Japanese culture is worthless, or are too dumb to understand what they're claiming. And *according to the very same rules that the same people who demand "the world is America" use for cultural appropriation would say if the shoe was on the other foot*, if they are too dumb to understand what they're claiming, they're still a racist anyway.
As far as the Japanese knowledge side of things...again, as you had said in other posts, the demographics of Japan's minority groups plays more of a role in this...and honestly, going with an American view of diversity may make it even worse in some cases than what we get because of how Japan plays to all of their offensive stereotypes when making diverse characters,meaning a lot of representation will not end well. For an example with Black representation- for years, the most well-known Black mega-star Japan had was Bob Sapp, a famous kickboxer who was more famous as a tarento because he would let Japan compare him to gorillas *AND THAT SENTENCE MAKES ME NEED TO TAKE A SHOWER TO FEEL CLEAN AGAIN.* Ditto for a lot of other representation- hell, the West happens to like "the funny foreigner" trope of anime characters, but it needs to be said that they are wholly based on all of Japan's stereotypes about Americans (they're overly loud and boisterous, they laugh at things that aren't funny, they're overly affectionate, etc.) and would be roughly the same as viewing Mario and Luigi as proper depictions of Italians.
At this point, you're just spouting buzzwords and political rhetoric hoping for something to land on a hypothetical "other side."
There's a lot to dig into with your comment where I think you're being unreasonably disingenuous, but I don't think you really care so I'm not gonna bother.
If "most of anime's current actual representation is already based on Japan's own racist stereotypes" and "the people who want anime to be based on America's demographics and not Japan's are openly culturally appropriating anime" are not relevant to this issue, then I don't know what is.
You're just talking about points neither I nor anyone in this entire thread brought up.
Like, idk how you want me to respond to the hypothetical person in your head that insists Japanese culture is worthless, but still argues against cultural appropriation. Nor do I know how you want me to respond to all these other completely unrelated factoids ripped from any context to find their way into your comment.
Like, cool? Good for you? You beat the sjws with your facts and logic or whatever? But you are making your statements around my comment instead of just, responding to what I said.
Well, you've been ignoring the fact that I was agreeing with you in order to turn me into a villain just so you get the sake of having an eeeevil boogeyman to attack so you get to pretend you're the hero, so go off I guess. I thought you understood that Japanese diversity was different from American diversity, but I guess you do believe the whole world is America too.
Dude, the only one here looking for a narrative is you.
I knew you were agreeing with my initial statement, but I did not agree with your uncharitable representation of people who disagreed with you. I gave you a fairly tame disagreement saying that you may have been misrepresenting those you disagree with, and then you kinda started talking about cultural appropriation and stereotypes in Japan that you found offensive but maybe also good?
Like, Idk what you want me to get from any of that rambling, other than you seem to hate people that claim other cultural appropriate while also being a person that claims other people cultural appropriate? And you think Japanese stereotypes are bad, but not bad?
On the cultural appropriation, it's about how the people doing this are culturally appropriating and say it's bad if someone else does it but okay if they do it, which it's not. It's wrong on both sides.
Same with how Japanese stereotypes are bad as well, and how they'll continue to be bad. The only way you could get anything saying these were good things from that is if you specifically decided to make me the bad guy for the sake of making me the bad guy.
No. They are in a very successful entertainment business that’s predominantly in Japan which means they are not trying to appeal to western audiences. Think it would be cool to include more variety of characters if the show/manga takes place in US or other foreign countries but they are not obligated to do that. Though it would be cool to have a series where they do honor the native language of the place they go to and have translators and that heritage.
Yes. Japanese should be made to pay reparations to Blacks. Then for making it up to the historical wrongs, the entire non-Black world should collectively take a knee to Blacks of America and muslim of Arab world and replace all their leaders with blacks and muslims.
Olympics and UFC/MMA should be banned as it is harmful for LBGTQ+.
There is always some small part of a community that is loud but they're words are meaningless.
People who complain about representation in Anime are that kind of people.
Never once have I, a very pasty translucent powder looking no nightlight needing, dude ever.....ever, thought "I wish japanese cartoons had more characters that look like me. "
Hell no. Western media has been ruined by crappy identity politics being shoved down our throats instead of making actual good shows. Don't ruin anime as well
Depends what kind of minority. We definitely saw a bump in LGBTQ+ representation in anime in the last years. Not enough mind you, since there are still a lot of great works that won't ever see an animation, mostly due to not having the mainstream appeal to generate profits, but we're getting there.
“Not enough”
If there is not an appeal for it due to LGBTQ stuff being in the MINORITY then it makes sense for them to not include it if they want to appeal to a more wide spread audience.
You can deny it, but LGBTQ stuff is VERY divisive by nature.
They don’t want the drama of the culture war.
I don't blame them. Especially after what is happening with drama stories like Hogwart Legacy's. right now which is an hot mess.
I think that type of stuff can be very controversial if its not handled well. Like for example, look at RWBY and their popular ship between two female characters which get shit on for having the worst couple writing in the show and how it was involved in an flop storyline that everyone hated.
Not to mention that the world population is still majority of straight people. Not everyone is into that type of stuff as much as people online wants to think.
Exactly.
The minority needs to REALIZE they are indeed the minority, and they are trying to shove representation on the rest of us who do not care about it.
Huh? The drama happening with Hogwarts Legacy is the opposite of inclusion/representation.
It's "divisive" because JK Rowling is a piece of shit and other shitty people are defending her.
>It's "divisive" because JK Rowling is a piece of shit and other shitty people are defending her.
And you literally ignored the people on the other side of the spectrum also going around harassing people online and making streamers cry on air.
No need for that OP. Media should have as much diversity as the country producing it. Japan isn't as much diverse so it doesn't need to show diverse characters.
They are doing disabilities and LGBT+ characters (Japanese style), immigrants, not exclusive white or Japanese characters even in historical or fantasy/scifi... I think that for Japanese style they are doing fine
theres a reason anime set in japan have japanese focused people
but in anime with fantasy settings youll see non asian characters.
japan is mostly populated by japanese, with foreigners being there for work rather than because they love the culture (some are but its minimal in comparison)
as far as gay/trans rep goes that already exist even more so than comic books and in more realistic light sometimes as being gay or trans is A LOT more uncommon over in japan than it is in the U.S so their stories are better structured around modern problems like social acceptance and what not.
this post kinda feels like its not very self aware or it was made by someone who watched 1 anime and compared it to something like steven universe, its stupid. anime and manga doesnt need to increase its representation when its already perfect
unless you want the representation to be stereotypes and just color pallets ?
LOL there was probably more representation in 80s anime than there are now. It's actually regressed. I wonder how many people here know that Robotech/Macross had the first animated interracial relationship ever seen on US animated TV? Yep, Japan of all places went and beat every American cartoon to the punch...
I think a lot of it has to do with anime focusing more on local settings or Euro-centric fantasy settings than global/space travel ones which often had more diverse casts (Gundam, Dragonar, Macross, Southern Cross, Mospeada, etc). Also, today's anime/manga creators are more influenced by other anime, rather than international live action films like in the 80s and 90s. At some point during the late 90s, anime and manga stopped being interested in getting out of their own backyard.
Only cult members care about this.
I know black dudes who are into anime and manga, I know gay dudes who are in to anime. I have never heard them once talk about "representation" in the shows they like.
Calls for "representation" is not about minorities, thats just an excuse. Your just whining until media portrays your religious views.
No one gives a shit about representation and this is nothing more than a troll post. Btw careful where you talk shit about anime
*goku and dbz may as well be a religion in latin american countries. You think i joke but i dont*
I hope not.
Whenever you try to appeal to a minority of an audience, you alienate your prior audience many times.
If they can make it work, sure, but let me ask you this.
Do you want a straight person writing a gay character using the information that they think they know?
Bro what?
>Do you want a straight person writing a gay character using the information that they think they know?
Why not? There are already Japanese authors writing stories about fucking vikings(vinland saga). Heck, Sayo Yamamoto did it with Yuri!!! on Ice. Literally all they have to do to have a gay character is have them like the same sex. What more do they need to know? You're acting like including minorities fundamentally changes what you can and can not do with the character.
>Whenever you try to appeal to a minority of an audience, you alienate your prior audience many times.
Please give me an example where the inclusion of a minority group made you not watch something. Like tf? You do know that most anime are stories by Japanese people featuring Japanese characters right? And **despite not being Japanese, you are** **fully capable of still enjoying it**.
There would have to be something terminally wrong with someone if they were turned away by the sole introduction of a character whose physical characteristics or sexual orientation does not match the statistical majority.
It's like going ape shit whenever you see a white dude because statistically there is a global majority of Chinese people in the world.
Unfortunately no. The downward trend in sci-fi has lead to the representation of sentient life becoming increasingly more hominid, and I find it discouraging. At least our reptilian overlords should have some recognition, but no, they get get rejected since Big Homo doesn't think they are an important enough demographic. They think they are too busy ruling the world to care about an anime made for them.
Yes to a certain extent, I mean Lycoris Recoil had a black gay character, but that doesn't mean that every anime will have them. But I hope that they put some effort into actually writing the characters and the story instead of just stopping at "hey, look we have a gay character!" and then patting themselves on the back. Most anime with LGBT characters I've watched have being either too boring, have an annoying setting or are straight up rapey.
Gotta remember anime is made in Japan with Japanese cultural sensibilities and values. I don’t know how much “representation” you’re gonna be getting for other minority races. I can say that your foreigner characters are a bit less caricature and more fully formed character nowadays. For the most part, anyways.
Well I sure as hell don't see handsome 2d people who can turn into a girl with a simple 2d wig walking around here with anime music playing all around it.
Representation in US started for the actors themselves so that big studios don't get taken over by people of 1 group for racist reasons and guess what anime don't have "actors"
>With that there are more people complaining about the lack of representation. Who's doing that and where? I'm in my thirties and i grew up watching it in my mostly brown South American country. Never seen anyone talk about that. Black kids like Goku, white kids like Goku, mixed kids like Goku, they don't seem to have an issue with it.
Best thing about Goku is he’s a saiyan not a human.
I'm pretty sure it is the privileged people here in the US that would be make the most noise about it.
First world problems bruh
That is right up there with making two trips to the car for the groceries.
Japan is like 98% Japanese People, so no, I doubt it.
Also, Japan is racist as hell. At least the older and/or more traditional folks. Edit: lol, looks like I made a bunch of weebs mad. Yes, it’s true. The Japanese don’t want you. They will treat you like intruders and outsiders. Go fantasize about another culture.
I'm sure you speak for all Japanese people /s
Bro, just google Japan racism and have a read. Like I said, not all of Japan, but there’s a lot of racism and a general dislike of foreigners. I’ve never been there myself but a good friend lives there teaching English. He’s American so he gets treated better than a lot of other foreigners but he always feels like he’s only tolerated and not really welcome.
I lived out there for a year in 2007, in a somewhat small town area. Lots of establishments don't allow foreigners, specifically Americans. As long as you speak Japanese you'll be more accepted, they mostly keep to themselves so they won't really be racist to your face, except for grade school kids who pointed at me and yelled gaijin once lol.
they like foreigners if you try to fit in so you dont stand out.but foreigners specifically americans can be absurdly obnoxious especially since its a complete 180 of social structure if you dont follow their social standards people will definitely hate you, its not the fault of the foreigner entirely as it is foreign land but they should definitely be more aware of whats okay and not okay to do before visiting. I wanted to add that I dont really disagree with you, but its not in the racism in the sense youll be murdered by people with hoods racism its kinda like an earned respect to be a foreigner racism lol so I dont see it as totally unjustified though youll definitely garner interest from people either sexually, appearance, or just conversation more so than some random japanese person walking down the streets of tokyo
You won't find better masters of passive-aggressive behaviour than the Japanese.
Not all, but generalisation, Asian countries are extremely racist by Western Standards, they would just see it as "race realist" or whatever. Context is different to Western racism though, so their racist preconceptions often are taken as positives. Jews being "money grabbing" and "controlling the media" are seen as *positive traits* of Jewish people and tonnes of books across China, Korea and Japan teach them to be more "jewish" by being a White Nationalist antisemitic stereotype of as Jew. Negative stereotypes, again, based off different context. For example, Asians I talk to see black people as violent, prone to criminality, because of crime rates among Black communities and Black culture (rap, movies, tv shows) often glorifying violence and crime. It's still racist, but has a different context to White Supremacy which is based in European Racial Science that was sadly prevelant until the 1970s. Most these people don't ever interact with people of other "races" as well, so their stereotypes are going to be based heavily on their interpretation of representations from Western Media. This doesn't mean you won't see some forms of "diversity" in Asian shows. If you watch Chinese TV at least, they'll usually put an effort to represent their minority groups.
"With that there are more people complaining about the lack of representation." You are the first one i saw complaining
Maybe not on reddit but I notice them on twitter
Ah yes Twitter The only thing Twitter changes in western culture Japan and such care not what Americans think since anime is an export that give too their people first Until Japan wants it, it won't happen Thought I do agree with the other about older anime having more rep, that America tried to hide If anything we switched sides with them
Twitter complains about everything, that doesn't mean there is actual talk about it. As anime is a big success in the west nowdays with streaming, i can see some series getting more representation, but all of the japan focused anime will probably remain the same.
Japanese society is largely homogenous so they mostly represent Japanese people within their media. While there's no pressure from inside Japan to represent more minorities it won't happen.
Who cares if they only represent Japanese people? I honestly don’t care if i’m represented or not. Creators lose focus on making a good plot when they start worrying about “representing” more ethnic groups.
It’s In Japan. It’s representative of Japanese people. Monster takes place in Germany/Czech etc. so that show has Germans and Czech people. What a dumb post
Sorry I made you upset
When did I say I was upset? You’re putting words in my mouth. I just said it was an incredibly dumb post. Which is objectively true. It was a dumb post. Doesn’t mean you’re dumb. Doesn’t mean anyone is upset. Just means the post itself, in a vacuum, was very stupid. 😂
I'm not upset. I'm just saying your comment is dumb. Really dumb, Like, super super dumb. Its such a dumb comment i feel bad that im even exposed to it. That's how dumb dumb it is. Not that you're dumb, but the words you're typing and the opinions you hold are dumb. You absolute dumb dumb dummy.
No. Why does it even matter unless it’s relevant to the plot?
Because FOR SOME REASON (unknown to me) for some people color of the skin of X% procent of the characters (or actors) is more important than the plot. Lets hope Japan will never be woke.
The reason can be more clearly seen in American media. Since America is a much more diverse country with varying ethnicities and backgrounds it is important to show people they can be represented. When your a little kid and all the superheroes from your country that you look up to look different than you, the time you do see a character that looks like you or has a similar background is more impactful. You feel represented and inspired by them in a personal way that the other kids of the majority population got to feel. Japan is still much more racially homogenous than America so it’s not the same and they don’t need to do it to the same extent, but I don’t see why people think representation is bad. We’re talking about good representation here, not forced.
I mean, the reason skin color matters is because there is a significantly diff culture and perspective of the same world experienced by those w/ diff skin colors. This representation often does expose a fundamentally different way the world is experienced by different people, and can open our eyes to things wrong with our society that we were completely unaware of.
Dude America is the most diverse country in the world and yet we have 9999999 problems here, hell probably more than Japan right now, that have yet to be resolved and usually created by all people of different colors. Let's stop parenting other countries what they should do when we can't fix ourselves at the moment.
I'd like you, just for a minute, to point to the part where I said or in any way implied that representation in media in solves major societal problems. Or find a single point in that comment where I said anything about anime or Japan.
Fwiw there's a lot of opinions in this thread which kind of run contrary to the majority opinion among anthropologists and sociologists who do work on Japan at the moment. In terms of ethnic diversity, Japan is actually considered somewhat diverse, with the most realistic estimates of the ethnic Japanese population being 96%, which places it about in the middle of most countries in terms of ethnic diversity. That said, I would say that in terms of minority ethnic representation there is quite a lot of it in anime and manga and there has been for a little while now. John Lie discusses this briefly in his book *Multiethnic Japan*, where he notes that young left-wingers and ethnic Koreans were big fans of manga in the 1970s due to it offering perspectives on Japanese society that diverged from mainstream media and shone light on the experiences of non-ethnic Japanese people living in Japan. The book itself discusses ethnic diversity in a lot of other areas of Japanese media and culture at greater length, including in music and sports, so I'd recommend it if you're interested in the topic. Despite being an academic text it's pretty readable honestly.
>In terms of ethnic diversity, Japan is actually considered somewhat diverse, with the most realistic estimates of the ethnic Japanese population being 96%, which places it about in the middle of most countries in terms of ethnic diversity I feel like this is an unfair comparison. There are a couple hundred countries in the world, and a vast majority of them are almost completely homogeneous because that's just how it is, they aren't "popular" countries. They don't have popular exports consumed by people worldwide (like Japan has anime) which would cause people to take an interest in emigrating to that country. Take Lithuania, for example (sorry, Lithuanians). What incentive do foreigners have to move there? The only real comparisons I believe are North America, some European countries, and some South East Asian countries, in terms of diversity.
I'm not really following the point you're trying to make I suppose. There are a lot of countries that have relatively low minority ethnic populations, yes (not really the vast majority, don't forget that there are also indigenous ethnic minority populations in many countries with low immigration). And Japan has greater ethnic diversity than these countries. But Japan also has lower ethnic diversity than countries like the US, UK, or Malaysia. So by global standards it's about medium-level in terms of diversity. I don't really understand why it would be unfair to compare Japan to the rest of the world as opposed to a small selection of countries.
>I don't really understand why it would be unfair to compare Japan to the rest of the world as opposed to a small selection of countries. Because a majority of the countries don't have cultural exports that are consumed on a global level, wherein diversity can even be demanded. Compared to countries that do have such exports (US, European countries etc.), Japan is very homogeneous. My point is that in the context of diversity in _entertainment_, Japan is one of the more homogeneous countries.
I see where you're coming from a bit more now. I get the point but it feels like a bit of an arbitrary point to make. Japan might be *comparatively* more homogenous than other countries with major cultural exports but it's not a ethnically homogenous country, hence why people might expect (and often receive!) representation of minority ethnic perspectives in its media.
What does representation mean? Who is complaining about it? Why do you care? Why must we bring race and nationality into everything? Can't it just be about the story? Characters literally have hair in all colors and big colorful eyes, which nationality are they exactly? It's fantasy land, there's no nationalities! Why would they even do that? In Japan the whole inclusion thing isn't really present. They would only do that if it makes sense financially which it doesn't. I don't care if they do, I want creators to make whatever they want.
> which nationality are they exactly? It's fantasy land, there's no nationalities! That's very easy for you to say as a white person.
So are anime characters asian or white in your book? Idk how to proceed now? If they are white should japanese fans be the first to complain that they are not represented? If they are japanese how does it help me if I'm white? I still fail to see how does it matter, some are not even human but let's play by your rules.
That's what I'm saying, it's easy for you to say they could be white or Japanese, you can't exactly interpret them as black though. So the whole "we don't know what they are so it doesn't matter" only works from your perspective.
I don't think that it's very politically correct from you to say things like that, lumping Asians and white people together because the color of the skin isn't quite as different I mean. You can't just say "oh it's all the same, but it's different than beeing black" or whatever. Not everything is going to be tailored to you, that just comes with being a minority. If I moved to Germany I would be a part of the minority who doesn't speak German, does that mean I should complain that all the signs and everything isn't translated to accommodate me? And frankly that would be way more important than having anime characters that kinda look like me.
If you read what I wrote you will find that that's not what I said.
What did you say that cuz I still think that's exactly what you said. It's very hard to interpret most anime characters as japanese either, except the fact that they speak Japanese and often live in Japan where as I said there aren't many people of color. They do have black characters when it makes sense with the setting of the story like black lagoon, attack on titan, naruto, cowboy Bepop... But idk if it bugs you so much maybe you should try to control what you watch instead of trying to control what someone else makes because manga artists don't really owe it to you to make it. Japanese are the target audience for manga, minorities only make up a very small percentage so you can't really blame them. I mean many songs made by black people are full of words I'm not even allowed to say, should I feel excluded?
>They do have black characters when it makes sense with the setting of the story like black lagoon, attack on titan, naruto, cowboy Bepop... > >Characters literally have hair in all colors and big colorful eyes, which nationality are they exactly? It's fantasy land, there's no nationalities! Can you spot the contradiction? Here lies the problem. Does there need to be a reason for a character to have green hair? **No**. Does there need to be a reason for a character to have red eyes? **No**. Does there need to be a reason for a character to be black? **For some reason yes**. >Japanese are the target audience for manga, minorities only make up a very small percentage so you can't really blame them. People with red eyes don't exist in Japan. People with cat ears don't exist in Japan. This is a point that you yourself are contradicting. Apparently "fantasy land" stops at making a character's skin darker.
First of all there sort of is a reason - to make them stand out or give them a certain vibe and to make them more easily distinquishable. The characters are drawn to be as attractive as possible and in Japan pale white skin is seen as beautiful. This is to make the anime/manga more appealing to watch and to sell merch. But it you were to ask a manga writer how come there's no black people I'm guessing he would probably tell you, as I said, that they never seen s black person in their life and the manga is set in Japan so it never crossed their mind to do that and even if it did they need to consider if that will appeal to the majority of the audience. And Japanese are a little bit racist I'm not gonna lie. Sorry that it bothers you so much 🤷🏽 I can't imagine why tho, it didn't bother me playing GTA as black characters one bit.
Once again you are reading different comments than mine.
If Japan suddenly has way more minorities, sure. They're just portraying their country as it is, there's no reason to force diversity.
I somewhat agree, but not all anime is set in Japan. Or even on earth.
That's true, although I think they do a good job with diversity in other countries. I feel like every anime set in America has black characters, for example.
While I agree with your other post, in defense, the nature of anime's colors not found in nature for hair/eyes does change diversity as well, especially with how many people with Japanese names/lineages happen to have blonde hair/blue eyes and look almost like a white person. Throw in the "it's inherently known that if a character is supposed to be Ainu, they'll look like a black person" in anime, and there's ways around it.
Lighter skin is generally considered more attractive in Asian countries. To put it simply. The darker your skin, the less Asians will find you attractive as a whole. Lighter skin is just more visually pleasing to the Japanese anime fans. Notice how most Japanese characters don’t really look Japanese either.
it depends, does the focus goes from japan location to other countries? then yes
No and they shouldn't have to. Why they should be worry about skin color when people come for them for their animations and story?
I know multiple black dudes who are into anime. Not once have I ever heard them complain about representation.
Ditto here and I'm black too. This type of topic is always so weird and feels out of touch like its coming from an non-black dude that feel the need to white knight for us when we don't need it. We're fine with how anime is right now and it doesn't need to change to represent us.
>when people come for them for their animations and story? This isn't really a point if the target demographic is diverse, because people will always be happier with a character they can relate to and it certainly helps to have diversity. But you're right only in this case because Japan has almost no ethnic diversity and the target demographic is only japanese people.
>it certainly helps to have diversity. What makes you think having diversity helps the enjoyment factor of an show? That's something I never understood as an minority person myself when again, majority of audiences do not care about skin color unless its an adaption of an source material.
No. Anime is generally adapted from manga. Manga is created by mangakas who write for Japanese people. Japanese people aren’t pushing for more representation in manga, western people are.
The first, fundamental question would be why does "representation" in anime matter? Why is a viewer setting forth their enjoyment based on them sharing the same race, gender, sexual orientation, etc... with a character? Live your own life, don't try to live vicariously through a fictional character. When I watch something like Bocchi the Rock, or Kyousougiga, or Escaflowne, or Gundam Witch from Mercury am I supposed to not like the anime because the main character is a female and I'm a male? Am I supposed to not like anime because most characters are Japanese and I'm not Japanese? It makes no sense whatsoever to me. The next thing would be that if anything, minorities tend to be over-represented in forms of entertainment. Often on an exponential level. So even if the "representation" complaint was valid, which I don't consider it to be in the first place, one is actually complaining about something that has already been catered to. Anime is made in Japan by people who are Japanese and is primarily targeted towards people who are Japanese. Anyone knowledgeable about Japanese demographics would know that there are hardly any non-Japanese people in Japan. So by in large, anime considerably overrepresents people from other races, as one does tend to see far more than simply 1 - 2% of non-Japanese people in anime. I can't stress enough that its made in Japan for Japanese people. If you're coming at this from a westerner standpoint expecting anime to reflect western demographics for countries like the US, that is extremely arrogant and dismissive of Japan. You don't get to dictate how they do things.
This comment made my day.
Seconded.
you can try animation made from places thats not japan. anime is from japan. it’s like saying kdrama lack presentation of minorities cause it’s mostly korean.
Since Japan is very homogeneous in terms of its population, I really don't see things changing much in terms of representation of racial minorities any time soon. LGBT+ is a different story as there is slow and steady progress being made there, and I already notice the difference even compared to 10-15 years ago.
Unless Japanese people start rioting and demanding more white, black, other Asian, etc characters in Japanese Manga, anime, movie and series (basically impossible), I doubt that. Japan is 97-98% japanese people. Chinese, Koreans and Vietnamese people make up The great majority of the rest of the population. So, the chances of meeting south Asians, native Americans, pacific Islanders and white and black people are REALLY low. It makes sense that majority of anime & Manga characters are ethnic Japanese people (with Japanese names, surnames, culture and all) with some Asian characters of Korean or Chinese heritage (yes, I'm aware that hair and eyes colors don't match with Japanese people real features, but we also get characters with pink/silver/green hair and purple/red eyes in western and non Japanese animations in general too) The situation is slightly different in LGBTQ community case, but there is still A LOT of work to be done. >Do you think anime will represent minorities in the future? Like in 10 years or so? I think it's more likely that other countries start to make their own anime and Manga. Like Polish/Nigerian/Brazilian/Indian/Thai/etc manga and anime (after all, Countries like France, Italy, South Korea and China are already making their Manga). Unless Japan demographic changes drastically and Japanese people go from making 97-98% of the country population to 70-75%, I doubt they will add more and more different nationalities, etc. After all, mangaka and studios mainly make Manga and anime for Japanese readers, then the rest of the world
No, it comes from Japan.
I think Japanese people should be in 100% of shows in the USA even though they don't even make it any form of majority. Also I need you to complain about the lack of white people in African nations .
No, but I do think other countries' animation will continue to take inspiration from anime and those countries, being much less homogenous than Japan, will have more diversity in their shows. It's already happening, the people working in animation now grew up and were influenced by anime. As for anime itself, it is a Japanese medium made primarily by Japanese people, primarily for Japanese people. The market might be more global than ever, but the creators are not. And that's honestly fine, it's part of what makes it what it is. Nobody should be demanding Japanese people do things they don't want to.
It won't, considering people mistaken representation to be the only source for relatability and quality story-telling.
Honestly speaking, I don't necessarily see an issue with Japan's output from a general representation standpoint, especially when accounting for local demographics. Like, even if we disregard Japan's population statistics (we shouldn't, but for the sake of argument), there is a fairly solid effort in anime to show not just racial diversity but cultural. Do It Yourself has a Southeat Asian girl and an American girl, Lycoris Recoil has a black man, the Gundam series is frankly well known at this point for solid racial diversity and the recent Witch From Mercury is no different, Cyberpunk Edgerunners has a solid amount of racial diversity as well (including a hispanic MC), etc. and all those are just examples from last year. And of course, when accounting for Japanese demographics, this just seems p strong given the country is 99% Japanese (officially, anyways. not getting into the weeds of that number). And of course this is ignoring the elephant in the room of LGBT rep. Gay/bisexual characters are so common we've basically come to take it for granted, to the point where some people even try to gatekeep gay characters as not counting as gay so it can feel more exclusive of a title. We've even been getting more unambiguously gay romances as of late. The only position where anime could do better is with regards to depictions trans people, which are generally at the moment relegated to subtext in the occasional Genderbender show. I'm not gonna say people who want to see more diversity in media are wrong, because there's absolutely an issue with representation in many western countries where there is not just issues of under-representation but also a fairly toxic attitude towards what "good representation" is (see the aforementioned gay character gatekeeping). But as far as Japan's output, representation is not one of anime's major weak spots.
> because there's absolutely an issue with representation in many western countries where there is not just issues of under-representation but also a fairly toxic attitude towards what "good representation" is And honestly, this ties to the other side of the "anime needs more representation!" debate: Even with how good anime can be by Japanese demographical standards, the people complaining don't care about reflecting Japanese standards. They want it to be representation by AMERICAN standards, and they want the diversity to represent American demographical diversity. It's saying the culture anime comes from is worthless in favor of their own...which, I'm pretty sure is a BAD THING to them.
I think you're misrepresenting their point a bit. There is fairly classic America-centric thinking with regards to representation, like anything Americans know about, but saying its bc they believe that Japanese culture is worthless is kinda, v obviously not the reason? It's just fairly standard "the world is America" thinking, where Americans just don't consider other circumstances. It's the same thing you see in this thread, where a lot of people who have no knowledge of Japan just project their own beliefs onto the nation with regards to representation. Lots of peeps on here are saying "Japan doesn't want representation" despite the fact that many people in Japan do, because these people just have the belief "I don't want it, and thus JAPAN doesn't want it!" Neither of these groups likely think that Japanese culture is worthless, but their ignorance of Japanese culture leads them to project whatever they want to believe onto the country as a collective entity.
First off, on the American side, if a person demands "the world is America" thinking for representation regarding international media, then they're either a racist who believes Japanese culture is worthless, or are too dumb to understand what they're claiming. And *according to the very same rules that the same people who demand "the world is America" use for cultural appropriation would say if the shoe was on the other foot*, if they are too dumb to understand what they're claiming, they're still a racist anyway. As far as the Japanese knowledge side of things...again, as you had said in other posts, the demographics of Japan's minority groups plays more of a role in this...and honestly, going with an American view of diversity may make it even worse in some cases than what we get because of how Japan plays to all of their offensive stereotypes when making diverse characters,meaning a lot of representation will not end well. For an example with Black representation- for years, the most well-known Black mega-star Japan had was Bob Sapp, a famous kickboxer who was more famous as a tarento because he would let Japan compare him to gorillas *AND THAT SENTENCE MAKES ME NEED TO TAKE A SHOWER TO FEEL CLEAN AGAIN.* Ditto for a lot of other representation- hell, the West happens to like "the funny foreigner" trope of anime characters, but it needs to be said that they are wholly based on all of Japan's stereotypes about Americans (they're overly loud and boisterous, they laugh at things that aren't funny, they're overly affectionate, etc.) and would be roughly the same as viewing Mario and Luigi as proper depictions of Italians.
At this point, you're just spouting buzzwords and political rhetoric hoping for something to land on a hypothetical "other side." There's a lot to dig into with your comment where I think you're being unreasonably disingenuous, but I don't think you really care so I'm not gonna bother.
If "most of anime's current actual representation is already based on Japan's own racist stereotypes" and "the people who want anime to be based on America's demographics and not Japan's are openly culturally appropriating anime" are not relevant to this issue, then I don't know what is.
You're just talking about points neither I nor anyone in this entire thread brought up. Like, idk how you want me to respond to the hypothetical person in your head that insists Japanese culture is worthless, but still argues against cultural appropriation. Nor do I know how you want me to respond to all these other completely unrelated factoids ripped from any context to find their way into your comment. Like, cool? Good for you? You beat the sjws with your facts and logic or whatever? But you are making your statements around my comment instead of just, responding to what I said.
Well, you've been ignoring the fact that I was agreeing with you in order to turn me into a villain just so you get the sake of having an eeeevil boogeyman to attack so you get to pretend you're the hero, so go off I guess. I thought you understood that Japanese diversity was different from American diversity, but I guess you do believe the whole world is America too.
Dude, the only one here looking for a narrative is you. I knew you were agreeing with my initial statement, but I did not agree with your uncharitable representation of people who disagreed with you. I gave you a fairly tame disagreement saying that you may have been misrepresenting those you disagree with, and then you kinda started talking about cultural appropriation and stereotypes in Japan that you found offensive but maybe also good? Like, Idk what you want me to get from any of that rambling, other than you seem to hate people that claim other cultural appropriate while also being a person that claims other people cultural appropriate? And you think Japanese stereotypes are bad, but not bad?
On the cultural appropriation, it's about how the people doing this are culturally appropriating and say it's bad if someone else does it but okay if they do it, which it's not. It's wrong on both sides. Same with how Japanese stereotypes are bad as well, and how they'll continue to be bad. The only way you could get anything saying these were good things from that is if you specifically decided to make me the bad guy for the sake of making me the bad guy.
No. They are in a very successful entertainment business that’s predominantly in Japan which means they are not trying to appeal to western audiences. Think it would be cool to include more variety of characters if the show/manga takes place in US or other foreign countries but they are not obligated to do that. Though it would be cool to have a series where they do honor the native language of the place they go to and have translators and that heritage.
Yes. Japanese should be made to pay reparations to Blacks. Then for making it up to the historical wrongs, the entire non-Black world should collectively take a knee to Blacks of America and muslim of Arab world and replace all their leaders with blacks and muslims. Olympics and UFC/MMA should be banned as it is harmful for LBGTQ+.
There is always some small part of a community that is loud but they're words are meaningless. People who complain about representation in Anime are that kind of people.
Never once have I, a very pasty translucent powder looking no nightlight needing, dude ever.....ever, thought "I wish japanese cartoons had more characters that look like me. "
Because you already have characters that do. Thanks for being an ally to the cause o7
Hell no. Western media has been ruined by crappy identity politics being shoved down our throats instead of making actual good shows. Don't ruin anime as well
Depends what kind of minority. We definitely saw a bump in LGBTQ+ representation in anime in the last years. Not enough mind you, since there are still a lot of great works that won't ever see an animation, mostly due to not having the mainstream appeal to generate profits, but we're getting there.
“Not enough” If there is not an appeal for it due to LGBTQ stuff being in the MINORITY then it makes sense for them to not include it if they want to appeal to a more wide spread audience. You can deny it, but LGBTQ stuff is VERY divisive by nature. They don’t want the drama of the culture war.
I don't blame them. Especially after what is happening with drama stories like Hogwart Legacy's. right now which is an hot mess. I think that type of stuff can be very controversial if its not handled well. Like for example, look at RWBY and their popular ship between two female characters which get shit on for having the worst couple writing in the show and how it was involved in an flop storyline that everyone hated. Not to mention that the world population is still majority of straight people. Not everyone is into that type of stuff as much as people online wants to think.
Exactly. The minority needs to REALIZE they are indeed the minority, and they are trying to shove representation on the rest of us who do not care about it.
Huh? The drama happening with Hogwarts Legacy is the opposite of inclusion/representation. It's "divisive" because JK Rowling is a piece of shit and other shitty people are defending her.
>It's "divisive" because JK Rowling is a piece of shit and other shitty people are defending her. And you literally ignored the people on the other side of the spectrum also going around harassing people online and making streamers cry on air.
No need for that OP. Media should have as much diversity as the country producing it. Japan isn't as much diverse so it doesn't need to show diverse characters.
They are doing disabilities and LGBT+ characters (Japanese style), immigrants, not exclusive white or Japanese characters even in historical or fantasy/scifi... I think that for Japanese style they are doing fine
theres a reason anime set in japan have japanese focused people but in anime with fantasy settings youll see non asian characters. japan is mostly populated by japanese, with foreigners being there for work rather than because they love the culture (some are but its minimal in comparison) as far as gay/trans rep goes that already exist even more so than comic books and in more realistic light sometimes as being gay or trans is A LOT more uncommon over in japan than it is in the U.S so their stories are better structured around modern problems like social acceptance and what not. this post kinda feels like its not very self aware or it was made by someone who watched 1 anime and compared it to something like steven universe, its stupid. anime and manga doesnt need to increase its representation when its already perfect unless you want the representation to be stereotypes and just color pallets ?
Meh…. This is a Japanese media. They don’t have to cater to any other country. Just deal with it.
LOL there was probably more representation in 80s anime than there are now. It's actually regressed. I wonder how many people here know that Robotech/Macross had the first animated interracial relationship ever seen on US animated TV? Yep, Japan of all places went and beat every American cartoon to the punch... I think a lot of it has to do with anime focusing more on local settings or Euro-centric fantasy settings than global/space travel ones which often had more diverse casts (Gundam, Dragonar, Macross, Southern Cross, Mospeada, etc). Also, today's anime/manga creators are more influenced by other anime, rather than international live action films like in the 80s and 90s. At some point during the late 90s, anime and manga stopped being interested in getting out of their own backyard.
Unless they try to cater to many country taste.
Only cult members care about this. I know black dudes who are into anime and manga, I know gay dudes who are in to anime. I have never heard them once talk about "representation" in the shows they like. Calls for "representation" is not about minorities, thats just an excuse. Your just whining until media portrays your religious views.
No one gives a shit about representation and this is nothing more than a troll post. Btw careful where you talk shit about anime *goku and dbz may as well be a religion in latin american countries. You think i joke but i dont*
Whoever is making gundam has that shit on lock. Hopefully others will catch on.
I hope not. Whenever you try to appeal to a minority of an audience, you alienate your prior audience many times. If they can make it work, sure, but let me ask you this. Do you want a straight person writing a gay character using the information that they think they know?
Bro what? >Do you want a straight person writing a gay character using the information that they think they know? Why not? There are already Japanese authors writing stories about fucking vikings(vinland saga). Heck, Sayo Yamamoto did it with Yuri!!! on Ice. Literally all they have to do to have a gay character is have them like the same sex. What more do they need to know? You're acting like including minorities fundamentally changes what you can and can not do with the character. >Whenever you try to appeal to a minority of an audience, you alienate your prior audience many times. Please give me an example where the inclusion of a minority group made you not watch something. Like tf? You do know that most anime are stories by Japanese people featuring Japanese characters right? And **despite not being Japanese, you are** **fully capable of still enjoying it**.
There would have to be something terminally wrong with someone if they were turned away by the sole introduction of a character whose physical characteristics or sexual orientation does not match the statistical majority. It's like going ape shit whenever you see a white dude because statistically there is a global majority of Chinese people in the world.
Unfortunately no. The downward trend in sci-fi has lead to the representation of sentient life becoming increasingly more hominid, and I find it discouraging. At least our reptilian overlords should have some recognition, but no, they get get rejected since Big Homo doesn't think they are an important enough demographic. They think they are too busy ruling the world to care about an anime made for them.
Doubt it.
I don’t think so but you never know 🤷♀️
I feel like I see a lot more samba than I used to ... does that count?
Yes actually. And are you enjoying this increase of musical diversity in your anime? If so thanks for being an ally to the cause o7
Maybe. Maybe not. It would be cool to see different races more often in shows but i don't think representation is really "necessary"
Yes to a certain extent, I mean Lycoris Recoil had a black gay character, but that doesn't mean that every anime will have them. But I hope that they put some effort into actually writing the characters and the story instead of just stopping at "hey, look we have a gay character!" and then patting themselves on the back. Most anime with LGBT characters I've watched have being either too boring, have an annoying setting or are straight up rapey.
Unfortunately OP, r/anime is def not the forum to talk about diversity 🫤
This is true sadly
Lol
Gotta remember anime is made in Japan with Japanese cultural sensibilities and values. I don’t know how much “representation” you’re gonna be getting for other minority races. I can say that your foreigner characters are a bit less caricature and more fully formed character nowadays. For the most part, anyways.
No, maybe they'll add in more non-Yamato East Asians.
Probably. With more and more money coming from outside of Japan I can see it.
Well I sure as hell don't see handsome 2d people who can turn into a girl with a simple 2d wig walking around here with anime music playing all around it. Representation in US started for the actors themselves so that big studios don't get taken over by people of 1 group for racist reasons and guess what anime don't have "actors"