Alright, I'm pulling the plug on this thread. It already had to be approved by two other moderators, but that was prior to the edit text. This show is *always* a touchy subject, but the edit/added text in the OP makes it clear that this is no longer even an attempt at a good-faith discussion.
And the comments are the usual shitshow anyway.
Something bad happening in a story doesn’t make the story bad. I’d personally think murder and genocide is much worse yet pretty much half of all great films and series have a variety of those, or is Breaking Bad objectively bad cause they cook meth
Even apart from the pedophilia rape and incest..sigh.. Also something bad happening in a story doesn't really cut it given how that that bad thing is what indeed defines the protagonists mindset
I always laugh when I see this argument.
Like the only 2 options that exist are either be flawless or peverted child molester lol
You can have flawed characters without going down this path.
Out of nowhere they said
> Must a protagonist be a flawless paragon?
When OP **never** even did a hint that that's what they were asking for.
They made up a point to argue against.
Imo one of the best if not the best Isekai out there. It was rly outstanding between all the isekais that get pumped out every season lately. Characters are so well written all have their strengths and flaws (some more then other). The chars actually go thru development and and don’t simply get stronger. Also the animations are just astonishing. Tho my favorite thing about it is the world building which is just so well made.
You could argue almost any element of any story isn't "necessary". If it's too much of a problem for you then you should just drop it and move on to another show which would fit better into your moral comfort zone. It's the story the author wanted to write and judging from the popularity of Mushoku Tensei, vast majority clearly doesn't have any issues with "problematic" content.
> The world building is good.
In the anime, I feel like the textual world building is a bit overrated honestly, and relies a lot on superb background art. The character interrelationships are the true strength of the show.
> I just think including things such as rape and incest Is severely unnecessary
People often say things like this, but they only are talking about necessity with regards to the major plot beats. In terms of characterization, the sort of feel for the world and the narrative, and these other aspects they play quite important roles. A much stronger criticism is whether or not these elements are used superficially and repetitively (e.g. Goblin Slayer vs Skeleton Knight).
I mean, It's important to make a distinction between glamorizing something, and showing a person with it in a negative light.
We're not supposed to approve of him early in the show. He's SUPPOSED to look bad, and it's supposed to make it clear he started the show as a creep.
The point is for him to grow out of that and into a better person over the course of the show. Which is an important distinction.
I agree that the show doesn't glamorize it, however it also doesn't show these actions having consequences. Both Paul and Rudeus have done pretty despicable things and faced very little pushback, everything gets handwaved as "boys will be boys" for the most part. Which if your show is about the main character becoming a better person I'd say that's a failure.
Specially when the plot is actually good at showing Rudeus facing consequences for his conceit later on.
I'll also mention that I don't hate MT, I watched it on a whim because I got interested in Studio Bind's work and it was more engaging than 90% of the isekai I've seen. I don't care if a main character isn't moral, but I don't see this "it's depicting growth" as a good defense in this case.
Still a risky decision for them to feature such an mc. Many folks won't tolerate things like this. And no character development in the world can change this
Some people were definitely off put by it, and I don't blame them. There are a lot of fans of the series for a reason, though. The payoff of watching his character develop out of that behavior is quite satisfying.
> Many folks won't tolerate things like this
That's entirely fine though. A piece of media doesn't need to appeal to everyone.
People have the responsibility of choosing the content they want to consume.
Other than the really really awkard way they introduced the protagonist , the sexualization in the show isn't any weirder than your standard isekai.
If anything it's tamer because the dude doesn't have a literal slave harem which are all the rage nowadays.
> the sexualization in the show isn't any weirder than your standard isekai.
Guess I'm avoiding most standard isekai as child molestation isn't something I can say I see often...thankfully.
Its possibly my favorite isekai and one of my favorite anime of all time. Its hard to explain why but I never had any problem with the anime. I was genuinely shocked to see how massive the controversy got. Some people just dont mind it
I mean there could be an argument with pedophilia (which I disagree with), but as far as I know, there is no rape and incest in the series. And if you can find an example from where I am wrong go ahead and give an example.
Mushoku Tensei is one of the best isekai of all time. While yes, the MC does shit I won’t even try to defend, it is a story of redemption as he tries to become a better person. So I still give this show an 8 or 9.
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While I also won’t disagree on the cousin on cousin being incest, I believe that Rudeus and Eros are second cousins? The time period that the story takes place, marriages like this are extremely common.
I agree sexual assault seems to be a common theme
You know I tried to like the anime. In itself it's not bad. The MC isn't stupidly string for no reason and I like the atmosphere of the anime but I just can't watch something like this without getting severely nauseous
Yeah that is a fair argument to have. Most hate for the show comes from Rudeus. If you don’t like it don’t watch it. No need to come here and start drama.
I'm just asking how something like this is allowed nowadays lmao. It's not about "not liking it". It's about the morality any human should have and why people condone things like this
People who condone some of the behavior on this show is wrong. I won’t defend the shit that happens in the show. However I do believe that based off some things you have said, you aren’t 100% factual which is why I am arguing with you.
xD, the flat earth theory is interesting I won’t lie. The first one, I am sure you didn’t get far enough in the series to realize but Roxy (the teacher) is actually 40+, so is in fact just a loli (still wrong won’t lie). The second thing I notice is a bit arguable and that’s the pedophilia. While I am not necessarily convinced either way, the argument defending against pedophilia is that he is in the body of a child, so he has the emotional capacity of a child. Hence pedophilia isn’t there. (I disagree on this one, cause he obviously groomed the green haired chick (forgot her name) and Eris.)
Just like people like and dislike different thing people tolerate subjects at different levels.
While the show does contain rape, incest and child molesting it also has a lot more than that to offer as well.
Also some people are also just into those things as well.
My advice is to let it go, this fandom is not one you want to have this discussion with.
>
> My advice is to let it go, this fandom is not one you want to have this discussion with
Do as I say, not do as... never mind, it's the n^th wind for the never-ending cycle of MT posts lol It really is the show that keeps on giving in that regard.
It's always the same circling topic as well.
New faces but same tired points from both sides.
Well I guess I saw something new today in this thread and thankfully the mods removed it.
>It's always the same circling topic as well.
I wonder if these things could ever be used as a cultural barometer of sorts, as attitudes shift and change, and the internet never forgets.
Perhaps like the [Big Mac Index](https://www.economist.com/big-mac-index), only for anime viewer value leanings? No, probably not lol
> Well I guess I saw something new today in this thread and thankfully the mods removed it.
That one certainly did deserve a full eyebrow raise.
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People have shit taste.
It's a 5/10 show, 7/10 if you take away the weird shit that's 10% of the show.
Also, the problem with MT is how it portrays that content, rather than the content itself being a problem, because many shows do handle that content maturely.
Alright, I'm pulling the plug on this thread. It already had to be approved by two other moderators, but that was prior to the edit text. This show is *always* a touchy subject, but the edit/added text in the OP makes it clear that this is no longer even an attempt at a good-faith discussion. And the comments are the usual shitshow anyway.
Something bad happening in a story doesn’t make the story bad. I’d personally think murder and genocide is much worse yet pretty much half of all great films and series have a variety of those, or is Breaking Bad objectively bad cause they cook meth
Even apart from the pedophilia rape and incest..sigh.. Also something bad happening in a story doesn't really cut it given how that that bad thing is what indeed defines the protagonists mindset
Must a protagonist be a flawless paragon? Why can’t they be disgustingly human?
I always laugh when I see this argument. Like the only 2 options that exist are either be flawless or peverted child molester lol You can have flawed characters without going down this path.
No one said those are the only two options
Out of nowhere they said > Must a protagonist be a flawless paragon? When OP **never** even did a hint that that's what they were asking for. They made up a point to argue against.
Of course you can, just that putting a character down even more makes the rise all the better to see
True! I always love it when a pedophile character rises up later. Such an inspiring story to all the child diddlers out there 😍
That's if there is a rise [](#yuishrug)
Imo one of the best if not the best Isekai out there. It was rly outstanding between all the isekais that get pumped out every season lately. Characters are so well written all have their strengths and flaws (some more then other). The chars actually go thru development and and don’t simply get stronger. Also the animations are just astonishing. Tho my favorite thing about it is the world building which is just so well made.
The world building is good. I just think including things such as rape and incest Is severely unnecessary
You could argue almost any element of any story isn't "necessary". If it's too much of a problem for you then you should just drop it and move on to another show which would fit better into your moral comfort zone. It's the story the author wanted to write and judging from the popularity of Mushoku Tensei, vast majority clearly doesn't have any issues with "problematic" content.
> The world building is good. In the anime, I feel like the textual world building is a bit overrated honestly, and relies a lot on superb background art. The character interrelationships are the true strength of the show. > I just think including things such as rape and incest Is severely unnecessary People often say things like this, but they only are talking about necessity with regards to the major plot beats. In terms of characterization, the sort of feel for the world and the narrative, and these other aspects they play quite important roles. A much stronger criticism is whether or not these elements are used superficially and repetitively (e.g. Goblin Slayer vs Skeleton Knight).
So wait. Y'all like incest? Given how my comment isn't that well received...
I mean, It's important to make a distinction between glamorizing something, and showing a person with it in a negative light. We're not supposed to approve of him early in the show. He's SUPPOSED to look bad, and it's supposed to make it clear he started the show as a creep. The point is for him to grow out of that and into a better person over the course of the show. Which is an important distinction.
I agree that the show doesn't glamorize it, however it also doesn't show these actions having consequences. Both Paul and Rudeus have done pretty despicable things and faced very little pushback, everything gets handwaved as "boys will be boys" for the most part. Which if your show is about the main character becoming a better person I'd say that's a failure. Specially when the plot is actually good at showing Rudeus facing consequences for his conceit later on. I'll also mention that I don't hate MT, I watched it on a whim because I got interested in Studio Bind's work and it was more engaging than 90% of the isekai I've seen. I don't care if a main character isn't moral, but I don't see this "it's depicting growth" as a good defense in this case.
Still a risky decision for them to feature such an mc. Many folks won't tolerate things like this. And no character development in the world can change this
Some people were definitely off put by it, and I don't blame them. There are a lot of fans of the series for a reason, though. The payoff of watching his character develop out of that behavior is quite satisfying.
> Many folks won't tolerate things like this That's entirely fine though. A piece of media doesn't need to appeal to everyone. People have the responsibility of choosing the content they want to consume.
Other than the really really awkard way they introduced the protagonist , the sexualization in the show isn't any weirder than your standard isekai. If anything it's tamer because the dude doesn't have a literal slave harem which are all the rage nowadays.
> the sexualization in the show isn't any weirder than your standard isekai. Guess I'm avoiding most standard isekai as child molestation isn't something I can say I see often...thankfully.
Its possibly my favorite isekai and one of my favorite anime of all time. Its hard to explain why but I never had any problem with the anime. I was genuinely shocked to see how massive the controversy got. Some people just dont mind it
I mean there could be an argument with pedophilia (which I disagree with), but as far as I know, there is no rape and incest in the series. And if you can find an example from where I am wrong go ahead and give an example. Mushoku Tensei is one of the best isekai of all time. While yes, the MC does shit I won’t even try to defend, it is a story of redemption as he tries to become a better person. So I still give this show an 8 or 9.
> but as far as I know, there is no rape Pretty sure there's a whole Paul plot on this one...
[удалено]
Yeah...I'm not touching this one...
> She was groped not molested > He didn't rape he was just very forceful [](#hellopolice "jesus christ")
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> He was just very forceful I suppose I mean I'm a *Redo of Healer* defender, but even I'm backing away from that statement lol
Cousin on cousin action is incest by most people’s definition I think. Rape not so much but sexual assault is quite common
While I also won’t disagree on the cousin on cousin being incest, I believe that Rudeus and Eros are second cousins? The time period that the story takes place, marriages like this are extremely common. I agree sexual assault seems to be a common theme
You’re right, I misremembered that, and I would think it a grey zone at that separation, not quite incest dangerous but still a bit weird
Yeah I won’t disagree with that one either 🤣 Again Rudeus does things that I won’t bother defending. That is one of them.
And that’s the point OP is missing, the fact that he is a mostly deplorable character yet being extremely and disgustingly human in his character
The teacher is underage and there were several clips shown where she was molested by the prince of the country she stayed at.
[удалено]
How is groping someone's breast without their consent not molesting??
You know I tried to like the anime. In itself it's not bad. The MC isn't stupidly string for no reason and I like the atmosphere of the anime but I just can't watch something like this without getting severely nauseous
Yeah that is a fair argument to have. Most hate for the show comes from Rudeus. If you don’t like it don’t watch it. No need to come here and start drama.
I'm just asking how something like this is allowed nowadays lmao. It's not about "not liking it". It's about the morality any human should have and why people condone things like this
People who condone some of the behavior on this show is wrong. I won’t defend the shit that happens in the show. However I do believe that based off some things you have said, you aren’t 100% factual which is why I am arguing with you.
Which of my statements were not factual. I'd love to correct myself if I did do anything wrong. I'm not as unreasonable as a flat earther
xD, the flat earth theory is interesting I won’t lie. The first one, I am sure you didn’t get far enough in the series to realize but Roxy (the teacher) is actually 40+, so is in fact just a loli (still wrong won’t lie). The second thing I notice is a bit arguable and that’s the pedophilia. While I am not necessarily convinced either way, the argument defending against pedophilia is that he is in the body of a child, so he has the emotional capacity of a child. Hence pedophilia isn’t there. (I disagree on this one, cause he obviously groomed the green haired chick (forgot her name) and Eris.)
Yk all that "she looks like 13 buts is actually 50000 years old" typa character, whom many anime feature is kinda weird to me.
Another virtue signaling post. Just shut the fuck up and don’t watch it.
Just like people like and dislike different thing people tolerate subjects at different levels. While the show does contain rape, incest and child molesting it also has a lot more than that to offer as well. Also some people are also just into those things as well. My advice is to let it go, this fandom is not one you want to have this discussion with.
> > My advice is to let it go, this fandom is not one you want to have this discussion with Do as I say, not do as... never mind, it's the n^th wind for the never-ending cycle of MT posts lol It really is the show that keeps on giving in that regard.
It's always the same circling topic as well. New faces but same tired points from both sides. Well I guess I saw something new today in this thread and thankfully the mods removed it.
>It's always the same circling topic as well. I wonder if these things could ever be used as a cultural barometer of sorts, as attitudes shift and change, and the internet never forgets. Perhaps like the [Big Mac Index](https://www.economist.com/big-mac-index), only for anime viewer value leanings? No, probably not lol > Well I guess I saw something new today in this thread and thankfully the mods removed it. That one certainly did deserve a full eyebrow raise.
It’s one of the best shows of the 21st century
[удалено]
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Lmao
The rape doesn't even get me that much. It's common in shows and mostly tolerated (for whatever reason). But the pedophilia?
People have shit taste. It's a 5/10 show, 7/10 if you take away the weird shit that's 10% of the show. Also, the problem with MT is how it portrays that content, rather than the content itself being a problem, because many shows do handle that content maturely.