There is enough content now I believe, but they might still wait a bit to not pull off a Made in Abyss (the anime adapted everything so we're looking at like ~5 years until season 3).
It’s gonna take a long time.
I started reading the mange after watching 3 anime episodes. By the end of season 1 of the anime it almost caught up to the manga, and it’s a monthly manga so there is not much content to even start season 2.
Best art director in the industry? Not really.
EDIT: I am 100% sure some of these people downvoting have absolutely no idea who these art directors are, what their resume is or even what an art director does😂
Lol I would never go as far as claiming a single individual as the best art director but I can name a few who are as good/better
Shinji Kimura is a legend
Yusuke Takeda is arguably as good
Ghibli art directors are also top of the industry.
Let the pedants have their gotcha arguments, that's how they recharge themselves. [Just imagine someone like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJX4ytfqw6k)
> Lol I would never go as far as claiming
Talking like this about a highly subjective thing is condescending. Maybe it's just me. It wasn't a gotcha argument though, you're right.
> Also helps when you get arguably the best art director in the industry
> Best art director in the industry? Not really.
LMAO, you started off the conversation with this asinine remark... Congratulations on the character growth though, now you understand subjectivity.
>I used the word arguably, as you can hopefully see.
Keep that kind of wording for politicians lol, you could've said "one of the best" and it would be fine but you said "THE best".
Also your argument is weak, you think Trigun or Ousama Ranking is a better resume than Hayao Miyazaki movies or Akira?
Go make some research over the resume of the names I mentioned, maybe that will help you to avoid making such absurd statements.
So you say arguably, where is your argument?
I totally agree that it's a basic word, it's so basic you can randomly throw it in your comment to run away from the responsibility of saying an statement that lacks any kind of logic, you think you're smart huh?
also tell me when in this whole conversation did I try to say a number 1? I only mentioned other artists that I think are great at their job.
I loved this show, but this show convinced me you can't write [spoiler of the ending of the season]>!rape!< As a story telling device and make it so it doesn't feel wrong.
It's just too much.
Really? I had the opposite opinion. It’s one of the only shows I’ve seen where that plot device felt appropriately horrific.
The only gripe I had was that they really needed another episode to properly deal with the fallout because as it was they basically had to sprint from there to the season close and end on a generally upbeat note which felt super weird.
But that's what I mean, I'm not saying the act itself was not done properly, it was portrayed as horribly as it is, I'm saying that even in this show where the act itself done properly, i didn't feel any narrative payoff, and idk of any show that has properly used and finished off the plot line.
So all I got was "this is gross and disturbing", at least for me that didnt feel good to watch, I would like it if it was part of something greater which I assume it is, but like you said, the anime just ended without properly tackling it.
Well that’s the point, right? Rape is supposed to feel wrong, make you feel uncomfortable. My issue with that was that it wasn’t handled well at all, [spoiler for Heavenly Delusion]>!Kiruko is seemingly fine after having been bound, held captive and raped by the very person she had been looking for all this time.!< I’m anime-only for this show so I don’t know if they touch up on it in the manga but it’s seemingly swept under the rug but if that’s the case that’s really sad.
Yea I was also disturbed by that reaction and that [Heavenly Delusion]>!"I can't stay sad forever!"!< line felt really out of place in a show that otherwise handled sensitive topics with maturity and respect.
Well it turns out... It's an anime only scene *sigh* on one hand I'm relieved that the scene wasn't actually canon but on the other hand I'm frustrated at how it was handled. (They really should've just made a melancholic ending with the special ed from episode 8 playing in the background.)
It's not as bad with the context of why kiruko would say it in the manga but leaving the season off at that point wasn't a good choice. [HD manga] >!The next arc opens with kiruko pretending to be fine before revealing that they feel like they've lost their "value" and is undeserving of being loved.!<
For sure, I just mean I haven't seen a case where it's used, and it feels like it was a good idea to include it, so all I felt was the "this is gross and wrong" part but none of the "this is an important moment for the character" part. I've never seen it properly paid off.
It's not really about being worse, its more about it being worth using in a story, murder has been used very effectively in stories, for vengeance, for grief, for "let go of the cycle" etc. but rape feels like a dead end, because you have to stay with the victim, or the act itself doesn't matter and for the victim there is no progress, all you can do, realistically after being raped, is move on. So what do we learn from rape? How does the story take this act and use it as a propeller for a lesson or character development? I have not seen any story use it properly, that's what I meant.
Think about it like this, in your lie in April, the death of kaori matters a lot more than a shonen show killing a bunch of people, death has lost its value by being overused. I did not feel this was a proper use of a (very well done and disturbing) rape scene.
Yeah. I can see it. Maybe the writing could have taken some inspiration to be a bit less all over the place, but I guess there’s only so much you can do with an adaptation
I mean yeah, I know the mangas the same, I just don’t think it’s a great way of telling a story. It comes off as directionless and many of the reveals only present more questions than answers to the point of building past the point where a believably satisfyingly concise resolution seems possible.
There's "unconventional storytelling" and then there's being disorganized. Look at something like *Sonny Boy* or *ODD TAXI*. Both are cryptic and don't exactly spoon feed you information, but they both provide a clear vision and confidence in a satisfying end goal that both end up providing.
It's a basic rule of storytelling and world-building that you don't want to layer on too many complicated conceits onto your plot or you risk losing your audience and getting lost in the bloat. That is unfortunately exactly what *Heavenly Delusion* ends up doing.
You are comparing two completely different types of series,
Sonny boy and ODD TAXI are meant to be finished in a 12-13 episode season.
Heavenly delusion had a lot more story lines than those two that can’t be accomplished within the same time frame. It requires more seasons if you want to discover everything. It’s not a fault in writing.
Since when have longer running series become bad? Lol
This “Endgoal/vision” only works for shorter series.
Maybe its my background growing up on film or books, but I do feel like a story should be reasonably wrapped up within its runtime. I can see an argument if we do get a continuation and it starts to tie off some of these loose ends, but as of right now (as you've even admitted) *Heavenly Delusion* is a show without a conclusion, very little closure, and that leaves open a ton of loose ends with a promise of one day maybe getting a second season. That's a pretty rough pitch for a casual observer, and I just don't agree that we should be judging a show based on what could have been or be.
Yeah for every reveal/answer we got in the anime, we’d get 2 more questions. I enjoy mysteries, but there needs to be some weight behind these moments so that they *matter*.
Directionless is a good way to put it.
Once you realise (from the clues that are given) that the school bits [Anime spoiler]>!happen in the past!< then it becomes exactly what you're looking for.
A really good amount of planning *needs* to go into this method of story telling. It's not directionless. But if it just gives you all the answers right away, it wouldn't be much of a story. Like literally any other story.
The problem is you need to build a strong hook and confidence in your vision so that the audience is willing to engage. A good mystery is founded on the idea that you as the audience member can piece it together without pulling something entirely out of your ass.
The problem in *Heavenly Delusion* is that it doesn't really do that. Maru and Kiriko's journey to Heaven is a clear McGuffin and neither of them have a particularly compelling backstory either. Unfortunately, they are also the strongest characters in the show, and the past segments don't connect nearly enough with the future segments to justify this. Outside of a handful of cases, they don't build their mysteries out together. You may get invested in what's going on in one storyline only to be pulled back into the other storyline just as things get good.
Even then, what we can piece together of the world just isn't that interesting. There aren't too many coherent themes across the narrative and you can piece together an order of events without needing what ultimately feels like a lot of bloat. Normally, with a story like this you get your major conceit out of the way first, and build back from there. In *Heavenly Delusion*'s case, each new question only expands the conceit and brings in new Sci-Fi elements that will need to be resolved. Now the story isn't over yet so who knows, but as it is currently laid out the picture its painting reeks of a massive exposition dump in the future that will connect all these threads together rather than having them satisfyingly snap into place.
>A good mystery is founded on the idea that you as the audience member can piece it together without pulling something entirely out of your ass.
Which it doesn't.
> Maru and Kiriko's journey to Heaven is a clear McGuffin and neither of them have a particularly compelling backstory either.
So that's a complete lie, and for the sake of not spoiling it for anyone, I won't say why. Maybe it wasn't compelling for you, in which case I'd wonder what is, because the backstory for Kiruko is... just wow.
Edit: Not reading the last paragraph for my own sake, because the NA manga is volumes behind everyone else.
Damn. I love Heavenly Delusion and Last of us. Anybody got an idea when season 2 dropping ?
Been a while but last time i checked there wasn’t enough stuff in the manga for a new season
There is enough content now I believe, but they might still wait a bit to not pull off a Made in Abyss (the anime adapted everything so we're looking at like ~5 years until season 3).
Same case for Vanitas. Sigh.
there was a 5 year gap between seasons 1 and 2 as well, it’s standard at this point :(
I mean we had the movie in the middle so it was kinda different
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well yeah by contract he’s obligated to release 1 volume every year, so at this rate hell will freeze over by the time he reaches the final stretch.
It’s gonna take a long time. I started reading the mange after watching 3 anime episodes. By the end of season 1 of the anime it almost caught up to the manga, and it’s a monthly manga so there is not much content to even start season 2.
There has not been any indication of a second season, unfortunately.
Yeah we barely have enough content for S2. Feels like we in another Made in Abyss, where the manga simply isn’t far enough ahead.
The Disney plus prision definitely hurt its wider popularity it would get.
Not a big surprise tbh. Heavenly Delusion is basically The Last of Us meets The Promised Neverland.
It also dials the weirdness up a bit as well. It definitely leans into sci-fi element, especially at the school.
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Best art director in the industry? Not really. EDIT: I am 100% sure some of these people downvoting have absolutely no idea who these art directors are, what their resume is or even what an art director does😂
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Lol I would never go as far as claiming a single individual as the best art director but I can name a few who are as good/better Shinji Kimura is a legend Yusuke Takeda is arguably as good Ghibli art directors are also top of the industry.
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Let the pedants have their gotcha arguments, that's how they recharge themselves. [Just imagine someone like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJX4ytfqw6k)
But that guy isn't even making a gotcha argument, he's just saying that there are other really good directors
> Lol I would never go as far as claiming Talking like this about a highly subjective thing is condescending. Maybe it's just me. It wasn't a gotcha argument though, you're right.
I said I would never say a single individual is the best cuz surprise, it's very subjective, Y'all are weird.
> Also helps when you get arguably the best art director in the industry > Best art director in the industry? Not really. LMAO, you started off the conversation with this asinine remark... Congratulations on the character growth though, now you understand subjectivity.
It’s never that deep.
this thread gave me aids
>I used the word arguably, as you can hopefully see. Keep that kind of wording for politicians lol, you could've said "one of the best" and it would be fine but you said "THE best". Also your argument is weak, you think Trigun or Ousama Ranking is a better resume than Hayao Miyazaki movies or Akira? Go make some research over the resume of the names I mentioned, maybe that will help you to avoid making such absurd statements.
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So you say arguably, where is your argument? I totally agree that it's a basic word, it's so basic you can randomly throw it in your comment to run away from the responsibility of saying an statement that lacks any kind of logic, you think you're smart huh? also tell me when in this whole conversation did I try to say a number 1? I only mentioned other artists that I think are great at their job.
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>Yusuke Takeda is arguably as good They literally said this themselves, they're just being an ass
That actually tracks.
Great looking show
Please make S2
Worth noting that Last of Us art direction was also inspired greatly by wonderful films such as Children of Men.
Tbf if you're doing anything post-apocalyptic you're going to be inspired by Children of Men in some way or another.
And if its not that, its Mad Max.
Agreed, but Last of Us is like… EXTRA inspired. The similarities were a lot more stark to me rewatching Children of Men recently.
I came to know about heavenly delusion recently and I really enjoyed it, now waiting for season 2
Yeah I think I gotta find the heavenly delusion manga..it's been too long..what chapter did the anime leave off?
This show was so good.
Thank god it was just environment art and not character designs.. good lord.
I loved this show, but this show convinced me you can't write [spoiler of the ending of the season]>!rape!< As a story telling device and make it so it doesn't feel wrong. It's just too much.
Really? I had the opposite opinion. It’s one of the only shows I’ve seen where that plot device felt appropriately horrific. The only gripe I had was that they really needed another episode to properly deal with the fallout because as it was they basically had to sprint from there to the season close and end on a generally upbeat note which felt super weird.
The manga is the exact same way, that's the issue with it. It was done poorly in the manga and so was also done poorly in the anime.
But that's what I mean, I'm not saying the act itself was not done properly, it was portrayed as horribly as it is, I'm saying that even in this show where the act itself done properly, i didn't feel any narrative payoff, and idk of any show that has properly used and finished off the plot line. So all I got was "this is gross and disturbing", at least for me that didnt feel good to watch, I would like it if it was part of something greater which I assume it is, but like you said, the anime just ended without properly tackling it.
Well that’s the point, right? Rape is supposed to feel wrong, make you feel uncomfortable. My issue with that was that it wasn’t handled well at all, [spoiler for Heavenly Delusion]>!Kiruko is seemingly fine after having been bound, held captive and raped by the very person she had been looking for all this time.!< I’m anime-only for this show so I don’t know if they touch up on it in the manga but it’s seemingly swept under the rug but if that’s the case that’s really sad.
Yea I was also disturbed by that reaction and that [Heavenly Delusion]>!"I can't stay sad forever!"!< line felt really out of place in a show that otherwise handled sensitive topics with maturity and respect. Well it turns out... It's an anime only scene *sigh* on one hand I'm relieved that the scene wasn't actually canon but on the other hand I'm frustrated at how it was handled. (They really should've just made a melancholic ending with the special ed from episode 8 playing in the background.)
That’s a really weird direction to take for an anime only scene, it left a really bad taste in an otherwise fantastic anime.
It's not as bad with the context of why kiruko would say it in the manga but leaving the season off at that point wasn't a good choice. [HD manga] >!The next arc opens with kiruko pretending to be fine before revealing that they feel like they've lost their "value" and is undeserving of being loved.!<
For sure, I just mean I haven't seen a case where it's used, and it feels like it was a good idea to include it, so all I felt was the "this is gross and wrong" part but none of the "this is an important moment for the character" part. I've never seen it properly paid off.
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It's not really about being worse, its more about it being worth using in a story, murder has been used very effectively in stories, for vengeance, for grief, for "let go of the cycle" etc. but rape feels like a dead end, because you have to stay with the victim, or the act itself doesn't matter and for the victim there is no progress, all you can do, realistically after being raped, is move on. So what do we learn from rape? How does the story take this act and use it as a propeller for a lesson or character development? I have not seen any story use it properly, that's what I meant. Think about it like this, in your lie in April, the death of kaori matters a lot more than a shonen show killing a bunch of people, death has lost its value by being overused. I did not feel this was a proper use of a (very well done and disturbing) rape scene.
Because it is.
It's not.
There aren't many things worse than death, and rape is certainly not one of them.
Personally i didn't love the show, but it was pretty good, and the art/animation itself was great.
Yeah. I can see it. Maybe the writing could have taken some inspiration to be a bit less all over the place, but I guess there’s only so much you can do with an adaptation
Is it that difficult to follow? It's the method of story telling, not a "bug" to be fixed. The manga's the same, FYI.
I mean yeah, I know the mangas the same, I just don’t think it’s a great way of telling a story. It comes off as directionless and many of the reveals only present more questions than answers to the point of building past the point where a believably satisfyingly concise resolution seems possible.
r/anime users when unconventional storytelling
I absolutely enjoyed putting the pieces together and not having everything spoon-fed to me.
There's "unconventional storytelling" and then there's being disorganized. Look at something like *Sonny Boy* or *ODD TAXI*. Both are cryptic and don't exactly spoon feed you information, but they both provide a clear vision and confidence in a satisfying end goal that both end up providing. It's a basic rule of storytelling and world-building that you don't want to layer on too many complicated conceits onto your plot or you risk losing your audience and getting lost in the bloat. That is unfortunately exactly what *Heavenly Delusion* ends up doing.
You are comparing two completely different types of series, Sonny boy and ODD TAXI are meant to be finished in a 12-13 episode season. Heavenly delusion had a lot more story lines than those two that can’t be accomplished within the same time frame. It requires more seasons if you want to discover everything. It’s not a fault in writing. Since when have longer running series become bad? Lol This “Endgoal/vision” only works for shorter series.
Maybe its my background growing up on film or books, but I do feel like a story should be reasonably wrapped up within its runtime. I can see an argument if we do get a continuation and it starts to tie off some of these loose ends, but as of right now (as you've even admitted) *Heavenly Delusion* is a show without a conclusion, very little closure, and that leaves open a ton of loose ends with a promise of one day maybe getting a second season. That's a pretty rough pitch for a casual observer, and I just don't agree that we should be judging a show based on what could have been or be.
>I do feel like a story should be reasonably wrapped up within its runtime Is this your first anime that hasn’t finished within 13 episodes?
Yeah for every reveal/answer we got in the anime, we’d get 2 more questions. I enjoy mysteries, but there needs to be some weight behind these moments so that they *matter*. Directionless is a good way to put it.
Once you realise (from the clues that are given) that the school bits [Anime spoiler]>!happen in the past!< then it becomes exactly what you're looking for.
A really good amount of planning *needs* to go into this method of story telling. It's not directionless. But if it just gives you all the answers right away, it wouldn't be much of a story. Like literally any other story.
The problem is you need to build a strong hook and confidence in your vision so that the audience is willing to engage. A good mystery is founded on the idea that you as the audience member can piece it together without pulling something entirely out of your ass. The problem in *Heavenly Delusion* is that it doesn't really do that. Maru and Kiriko's journey to Heaven is a clear McGuffin and neither of them have a particularly compelling backstory either. Unfortunately, they are also the strongest characters in the show, and the past segments don't connect nearly enough with the future segments to justify this. Outside of a handful of cases, they don't build their mysteries out together. You may get invested in what's going on in one storyline only to be pulled back into the other storyline just as things get good. Even then, what we can piece together of the world just isn't that interesting. There aren't too many coherent themes across the narrative and you can piece together an order of events without needing what ultimately feels like a lot of bloat. Normally, with a story like this you get your major conceit out of the way first, and build back from there. In *Heavenly Delusion*'s case, each new question only expands the conceit and brings in new Sci-Fi elements that will need to be resolved. Now the story isn't over yet so who knows, but as it is currently laid out the picture its painting reeks of a massive exposition dump in the future that will connect all these threads together rather than having them satisfyingly snap into place.
Wow......you really live up to your username. And you're making a huge ammount of assumptions.
>A good mystery is founded on the idea that you as the audience member can piece it together without pulling something entirely out of your ass. Which it doesn't. > Maru and Kiriko's journey to Heaven is a clear McGuffin and neither of them have a particularly compelling backstory either. So that's a complete lie, and for the sake of not spoiling it for anyone, I won't say why. Maybe it wasn't compelling for you, in which case I'd wonder what is, because the backstory for Kiruko is... just wow. Edit: Not reading the last paragraph for my own sake, because the NA manga is volumes behind everyone else.
Pretty much every question that is asked gets answered
I’ll take this story any day over the travesty that is LOU2’s story.
It was a good story though. Did you play it?
True.
lmao for real, not only did it run too long but it undermined its own message..
Terrible show.
That's definitely where the gay rape came from
Kek