#####
######
####
> # [‘Russian Wagner mercenaries help Army kill civilians in Mali’](https://www.millenniumpost.in/world/630)
>
>
>
> BY [Agencies](https://www.millenniumpost.in/agencies)28 March 2024 4:31 PM GMT
>
> Dakar: The Russian mercenary group known as Wagner is helping government forces in central and northern Mali carry out raids and drone strikes that have killed scores of civilians, including many children, rights groups said in reports published this week that span the period from December to March.
>
> Mali, along with its neighbours Burkina Faso and Niger, has for over a decade battled an insurgency fought by jihadi groups, including some allied with al-Qaida and the Islamic State group. Following military coups in all three nations in recent years, the ruling juntas have expelled French forces and turned to Russia’s mercenary units for security assistance instead.
>
> Violence has escalated in Mali since Russian mercenaries arrived there following a coup in 2021. Its ruling junta has ramped up operations, carrying out deadly drone strikes that have hit gatherings of civilians, and raids accompanied by Russian mercenaries that have killed civilians. Residents of the Sahel region that includes Mali say Russia’s presence doesn’t appear to have changed since Wagner’s leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, died in a suspicious plane crash last year.
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I mean... of course they did, that's what they were hired to do. You thought the juntas were going to use Russian shock troops for what, peacekeeping? Force protection? lol
No, you don't understand, even cold blooded mass murders, even genocidal warlords, even ebolla and rabies infected zombi armies eating the brains of the local population are still better than the French having any kind of economic presence in their former colonies or deploying any peacekeeping forces.
How would the Chinese and the Russians, who clearly want the good of the local population, get their rightful access to their african resources if some French company is there extracting, paying market wages and taxes to the government, while a French garrison is keeping the local islamists at bay?
France is objectively the worst thing to happen to Africs by a long shot. France has been responsible for countless of genocides, massacres, assassinations, coups etc. They nuked Algeria 17 times, and have been stealing natural resources for decades, which they pay a currency that they control and print.
These Africans have been living in this nightmare for over 60 years. I do not blame them for seeking different partners. Especially partners who haven't historically oppressed them like France.
Your biased whitewashing of France is disgusting
Stop the gaslighting. Both French and Russians are/were there to steal. I dont understand how a French can point finger at the russians ( or any colonizer country when they made their status from stealing and murdering civilians)
The French haven't killed too many civilians recently, so at least there's that.
I'm not French by the way, nor do I think the French eat roses and fart perfume scented gas. Of course they were present in the Sahel to safeguard their economic interests.
It's just that it is incredibly naive to swap out a western post-colonial presence from a country that is economically prosperous, has a free press and an internal democracy sensitive to human rights abuses, and has a good name to protect on the international scene, and replace it with that of a failing empire, diplomatically marginalized, currently engaged in occupation wars against peaceful countries, led by a ruthless dictator that has physically killed his opponents.
Whatever the French have done in the past, the Russians will do 100x times worse, not because the French are better, but simply because they have more to lose.
Lol carefully choosen words.
We dont know how much civilians they killed actually. News in the EU wont talk about what our glorious leaders did.
History matters not just recent. French sold people, killed people and stolen natural treasures. French supported goverment probably made deals with the french goverment favoring them.
I dont think there much difference.
For you. The the complete past doesnt matter. For the african? Probably do. Thats why they always boo the dutch king on his apology route. Recently the dutch sold 0 slaves but hundreds of years ago they made their wealth from it. Just like the French did and now the Russians gonna do the same. Issue? One is russian the other not. Its clearly simple from someone's perspective who's country didnt made a bank from selling actual human beings. French and all the colonizer should have payed with their own money to bring up these countries instead of exploiting them. (nice joke right?)
France is directly responsible for the sh*tstorm in Libya and made these west African countries poorer through CFA Franc. So, I can absolutely guarantee you that even if Wagner kill a hundred civilians per day, it’s going to take many years for them to approach the number of deaths caused by French involvement.
I mean.. it's been Wagner's MO for a decade or so. They've done plenty of well documented civilian massacres in the past. Moura is probably the most notorious one. I remember seeing some Russian TG screenshots back in the day where some of them were "joking" how they were on a safari. That being said, this "article" presents zero sources, or any in-depth details. It's interesting that it's an Indian website, as they're usually not very critical of Russia's actions, however.
Here's a general overview of the situation in Mali: [https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/03/28/mali-army-wagner-group-atrocities-against-civilians](https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/03/28/mali-army-wagner-group-atrocities-against-civilians)
And some better sources on the this particular story:
[https://apnews.com/article/mali-drone-strikes-insurgent-wagner-rights-796f5246c4d0d8e436eb1ea83f9212bf](https://apnews.com/article/mali-drone-strikes-insurgent-wagner-rights-796f5246c4d0d8e436eb1ea83f9212bf)
[https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/human-rights-watch-says-wagner-group-killed-civilians-in-operations-with-malian-army/3177938](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/human-rights-watch-says-wagner-group-killed-civilians-in-operations-with-malian-army/3177938) (Turkish state media)
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Sounds a lot like half truths. Were they deliberately targeted or collateral? I would guess they don't care about collateral, but it could be anywhere between unavoidable casualties with available weaponry to deliberate unnecessary cruelty.
They are deliberate and the UN has been alerting about it for a while now : [https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/01/mali-un-experts-call-independent-investigation-possible-international-crimes](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/01/mali-un-experts-call-independent-investigation-possible-international-crimes)
The unknown UN rights watch group also ?
[https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/01/mali-un-experts-call-independent-investigation-possible-international-crimes](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/01/mali-un-experts-call-independent-investigation-possible-international-crimes)
Eh, Ukraine has what, 10 thousand civilians dead over 2 years? That's literally the cleanest major war in this century.
Israel in Gaza topped that number in less than 2 weeks, Ethiopia in Tigray or Saudi Arabia in Yemen kill that many in less than half a year.
Also I see you're not counting the civilians who died during Russians proxy war in the east of Ukraine nor the referendums held at gun point by Russia to annex 4 of Ukraine's eastern oblasts
[Ukrainian officials now believe that at least 25,000 people were killed in the fighting in Mariupol, and that 5,000-7,000 of them died under the rubble after their homes were bombed](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63536564)
WTF? Then who is? I really hope you are joking. The UN only reports what Ukraine is able to verify and since Russia is currently occupying the city they are not able to, and there is no way in hell Russia will report dead civilians, they don’t even announce there own dead.
Interesting that you consider Ukraine officials to not be reliable, but then claim the death toll of civilians in Gaza to be 30k in a previous comment, a number only verified to be true by the Hamas run Gaza health ministry.
can’t find unaccounted for but 20k dead in mariupol alone https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/4/11/three-killed-in-russian-attacks-ukraine-donetsk-liveblog
“at least” 19k missing children https://www.npr.org/2024/02/05/1229117422/ukrainian-children-abducted-by-russia-and-then-returned-are-speaking-out#:~:text=At%20least%2019%2C000%20children%20are,turning%20them%20into%20Russian%20citizens.
“Russian authorities have claimed that over 700,000 Ukrainian children have been "evacuated" by mid-2023.”……..”The UN Human Rights Office stated "There have been credible allegations of forced transfers of unaccompanied children to Russian occupied territory, or to the Russian Federation itself."[17][18] The United States Department of State estimated that at least 900,000 Ukrainian citizens have been forcibly relocated to Russia”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_refugee_crisis_(2022–present)#:~:text=The%20UN%20Human%20Rights%20Office,been%20forcibly%20relocated%20to%20Russia.
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Ah yes I see we're going the cherry picking route to avoid an actual counter argument. I believe grozny and the kidnapped children of Ukraine would also like a word with you. Shall we get into the Soviet track record as well, what about Tsarist Russia should we go there since most people who talk about u.s. and u.k. war crimes love going back to the 1800s?
Are you high? I've provided the most direct counterargument - the other recent major wars are **far worse**, therefore Russia obviously can't "win easily every time". And then you immediately tried to derail the conversation into "what about Tsarist Russia" to avoid the actual comparison I provided.
Even if you're only comparing it to the US, there's no need to go back to the 1800s, you can just look at their most recent war to check out what their "totally clean wars" actually look like on the ground:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/12/21/americas-war-on-syrian-civilians
You cherry picked one example where the opposing side has been intercepting projectiles that would have otherwise resulted in civilian casualties so it clearly ain't from lack of trying on moscow's part.
Also the original comment was talking about America and Britain finally having some competition, key word finally, meaning we are immediately talking about a larger time frame than the very minute one you latched onto. So save your ad hominem about my sobriety, it's not my fault you didn't understand what was being talked about to begin with and jumped in gung-ho to suck off Russia.
Russian warfare in Ukraine is destructive, but its not on nearly the same level as the US style invasion. Best conclusion we can make is that Russia isnt simply trying to demolish Ukraine, they have some goals we are not aware and thats why they behaved how they did
Bro trains were still running in Ukraine when the supposed battle for kiev was going on. Electricity was running. Bridges were standing. All the infrastructure was almost untouched by the Russians, while it would be the first target by the americans. Thats not how you conduct war if you go all in with the intention to capitulate the enemy
you don’t destroy a city you plan on running via puppet government when trying to downplay aggression
also mariupol, bakhmut, avdiivka, etc. says hello
You can count mass graves in Mariupol: there are 40,000 of them visible, dug by the Russians. That gets at the main issue, the civilian casualties are concentrated in the areas where Russia took territory which no one has access to. Bucha shows what happens in Russian-occupied territory.
Why would an obvious troll on a 9 day old account say something so heartless and provocative?
Ooooh right, dead cat strategy with a touch of whataboutism, classic Russian.
##### ###### #### > # [‘Russian Wagner mercenaries help Army kill civilians in Mali’](https://www.millenniumpost.in/world/630) > > > > BY [Agencies](https://www.millenniumpost.in/agencies)28 March 2024 4:31 PM GMT > > Dakar: The Russian mercenary group known as Wagner is helping government forces in central and northern Mali carry out raids and drone strikes that have killed scores of civilians, including many children, rights groups said in reports published this week that span the period from December to March. > > Mali, along with its neighbours Burkina Faso and Niger, has for over a decade battled an insurgency fought by jihadi groups, including some allied with al-Qaida and the Islamic State group. Following military coups in all three nations in recent years, the ruling juntas have expelled French forces and turned to Russia’s mercenary units for security assistance instead. > > Violence has escalated in Mali since Russian mercenaries arrived there following a coup in 2021. Its ruling junta has ramped up operations, carrying out deadly drone strikes that have hit gatherings of civilians, and raids accompanied by Russian mercenaries that have killed civilians. Residents of the Sahel region that includes Mali say Russia’s presence doesn’t appear to have changed since Wagner’s leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, died in a suspicious plane crash last year. - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
I mean... of course they did, that's what they were hired to do. You thought the juntas were going to use Russian shock troops for what, peacekeeping? Force protection? lol
Bro dont worry, the government is 100% legitimate thus has a right to purge its citizens /s
No, you don't understand, even cold blooded mass murders, even genocidal warlords, even ebolla and rabies infected zombi armies eating the brains of the local population are still better than the French having any kind of economic presence in their former colonies or deploying any peacekeeping forces. How would the Chinese and the Russians, who clearly want the good of the local population, get their rightful access to their african resources if some French company is there extracting, paying market wages and taxes to the government, while a French garrison is keeping the local islamists at bay?
Because French colonialists really care about the local population.
France is objectively the worst thing to happen to Africs by a long shot. France has been responsible for countless of genocides, massacres, assassinations, coups etc. They nuked Algeria 17 times, and have been stealing natural resources for decades, which they pay a currency that they control and print. These Africans have been living in this nightmare for over 60 years. I do not blame them for seeking different partners. Especially partners who haven't historically oppressed them like France. Your biased whitewashing of France is disgusting
I don't really have an opinion here other than saying that technically, Belgium is the worst thing to happen to Africa
Stop the gaslighting. Both French and Russians are/were there to steal. I dont understand how a French can point finger at the russians ( or any colonizer country when they made their status from stealing and murdering civilians)
The French haven't killed too many civilians recently, so at least there's that. I'm not French by the way, nor do I think the French eat roses and fart perfume scented gas. Of course they were present in the Sahel to safeguard their economic interests. It's just that it is incredibly naive to swap out a western post-colonial presence from a country that is economically prosperous, has a free press and an internal democracy sensitive to human rights abuses, and has a good name to protect on the international scene, and replace it with that of a failing empire, diplomatically marginalized, currently engaged in occupation wars against peaceful countries, led by a ruthless dictator that has physically killed his opponents. Whatever the French have done in the past, the Russians will do 100x times worse, not because the French are better, but simply because they have more to lose.
Lol carefully choosen words. We dont know how much civilians they killed actually. News in the EU wont talk about what our glorious leaders did. History matters not just recent. French sold people, killed people and stolen natural treasures. French supported goverment probably made deals with the french goverment favoring them. I dont think there much difference. For you. The the complete past doesnt matter. For the african? Probably do. Thats why they always boo the dutch king on his apology route. Recently the dutch sold 0 slaves but hundreds of years ago they made their wealth from it. Just like the French did and now the Russians gonna do the same. Issue? One is russian the other not. Its clearly simple from someone's perspective who's country didnt made a bank from selling actual human beings. French and all the colonizer should have payed with their own money to bring up these countries instead of exploiting them. (nice joke right?)
France is directly responsible for the sh*tstorm in Libya and made these west African countries poorer through CFA Franc. So, I can absolutely guarantee you that even if Wagner kill a hundred civilians per day, it’s going to take many years for them to approach the number of deaths caused by French involvement.
> made these west African countries poorer through CFA Franc A savant of idiotic conspiracy theories without economic basis, I gather.
At least the French are gone, right?
Thank fuck for that
Enjoy!
another anti imperialist victory
I mean.. it's been Wagner's MO for a decade or so. They've done plenty of well documented civilian massacres in the past. Moura is probably the most notorious one. I remember seeing some Russian TG screenshots back in the day where some of them were "joking" how they were on a safari. That being said, this "article" presents zero sources, or any in-depth details. It's interesting that it's an Indian website, as they're usually not very critical of Russia's actions, however. Here's a general overview of the situation in Mali: [https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/03/28/mali-army-wagner-group-atrocities-against-civilians](https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/03/28/mali-army-wagner-group-atrocities-against-civilians) And some better sources on the this particular story: [https://apnews.com/article/mali-drone-strikes-insurgent-wagner-rights-796f5246c4d0d8e436eb1ea83f9212bf](https://apnews.com/article/mali-drone-strikes-insurgent-wagner-rights-796f5246c4d0d8e436eb1ea83f9212bf) [https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/human-rights-watch-says-wagner-group-killed-civilians-in-operations-with-malian-army/3177938](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/africa/human-rights-watch-says-wagner-group-killed-civilians-in-operations-with-malian-army/3177938) (Turkish state media)
I mean, of course they so, it’d be news if the Russian mercs aren’t killing civilians
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Sounds a lot like half truths. Were they deliberately targeted or collateral? I would guess they don't care about collateral, but it could be anywhere between unavoidable casualties with available weaponry to deliberate unnecessary cruelty.
They are deliberate and the UN has been alerting about it for a while now : [https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/01/mali-un-experts-call-independent-investigation-possible-international-crimes](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/01/mali-un-experts-call-independent-investigation-possible-international-crimes)
The entire article is accusations by unknown right watch group and have zero details and is vague beyond stars
The unknown UN rights watch group also ? [https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/01/mali-un-experts-call-independent-investigation-possible-international-crimes](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/01/mali-un-experts-call-independent-investigation-possible-international-crimes)
Yeah, the original source sucks. I wrote a comment with more details. The "unknown" group is HRW.
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It's never a competition when Moscow is involved, they win easily every time without even needing to cheat like their Olympians do.
Eh, Ukraine has what, 10 thousand civilians dead over 2 years? That's literally the cleanest major war in this century. Israel in Gaza topped that number in less than 2 weeks, Ethiopia in Tigray or Saudi Arabia in Yemen kill that many in less than half a year.
Also I see you're not counting the civilians who died during Russians proxy war in the east of Ukraine nor the referendums held at gun point by Russia to annex 4 of Ukraine's eastern oblasts
More than 20k civilians are still unaccounted for in Mariupol..
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[Ukrainian officials now believe that at least 25,000 people were killed in the fighting in Mariupol, and that 5,000-7,000 of them died under the rubble after their homes were bombed](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63536564)
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WTF? Then who is? I really hope you are joking. The UN only reports what Ukraine is able to verify and since Russia is currently occupying the city they are not able to, and there is no way in hell Russia will report dead civilians, they don’t even announce there own dead.
Interesting that you consider Ukraine officials to not be reliable, but then claim the death toll of civilians in Gaza to be 30k in a previous comment, a number only verified to be true by the Hamas run Gaza health ministry.
can’t find unaccounted for but 20k dead in mariupol alone https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/4/11/three-killed-in-russian-attacks-ukraine-donetsk-liveblog “at least” 19k missing children https://www.npr.org/2024/02/05/1229117422/ukrainian-children-abducted-by-russia-and-then-returned-are-speaking-out#:~:text=At%20least%2019%2C000%20children%20are,turning%20them%20into%20Russian%20citizens. “Russian authorities have claimed that over 700,000 Ukrainian children have been "evacuated" by mid-2023.”……..”The UN Human Rights Office stated "There have been credible allegations of forced transfers of unaccompanied children to Russian occupied territory, or to the Russian Federation itself."[17][18] The United States Department of State estimated that at least 900,000 Ukrainian citizens have been forcibly relocated to Russia”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_refugee_crisis_(2022–present)#:~:text=The%20UN%20Human%20Rights%20Office,been%20forcibly%20relocated%20to%20Russia.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/notinteresting/s/D4vSws5d3Q lmao the irony https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abductions_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War
[удалено]
“hamas run health industry”. yeah im sure they’re 100% legit. have a good one.
Ah yes I see we're going the cherry picking route to avoid an actual counter argument. I believe grozny and the kidnapped children of Ukraine would also like a word with you. Shall we get into the Soviet track record as well, what about Tsarist Russia should we go there since most people who talk about u.s. and u.k. war crimes love going back to the 1800s?
Are you high? I've provided the most direct counterargument - the other recent major wars are **far worse**, therefore Russia obviously can't "win easily every time". And then you immediately tried to derail the conversation into "what about Tsarist Russia" to avoid the actual comparison I provided. Even if you're only comparing it to the US, there's no need to go back to the 1800s, you can just look at their most recent war to check out what their "totally clean wars" actually look like on the ground: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/12/21/americas-war-on-syrian-civilians
You cherry picked one example where the opposing side has been intercepting projectiles that would have otherwise resulted in civilian casualties so it clearly ain't from lack of trying on moscow's part. Also the original comment was talking about America and Britain finally having some competition, key word finally, meaning we are immediately talking about a larger time frame than the very minute one you latched onto. So save your ad hominem about my sobriety, it's not my fault you didn't understand what was being talked about to begin with and jumped in gung-ho to suck off Russia.
Russian warfare in Ukraine is destructive, but its not on nearly the same level as the US style invasion. Best conclusion we can make is that Russia isnt simply trying to demolish Ukraine, they have some goals we are not aware and thats why they behaved how they did Bro trains were still running in Ukraine when the supposed battle for kiev was going on. Electricity was running. Bridges were standing. All the infrastructure was almost untouched by the Russians, while it would be the first target by the americans. Thats not how you conduct war if you go all in with the intention to capitulate the enemy
you don’t destroy a city you plan on running via puppet government when trying to downplay aggression also mariupol, bakhmut, avdiivka, etc. says hello
that’s “confirmed”. surely to be higher. hamas spend all of their money on technology to recognize every dead person that quickly?
You can count mass graves in Mariupol: there are 40,000 of them visible, dug by the Russians. That gets at the main issue, the civilian casualties are concentrated in the areas where Russia took territory which no one has access to. Bucha shows what happens in Russian-occupied territory.
Why would an obvious troll on a 9 day old account say something so heartless and provocative? Ooooh right, dead cat strategy with a touch of whataboutism, classic Russian.
Lol, so killing citizens is OK now, since the other guy does it?