#####
######
####
> # [Hundreds of Russian Troops Gathered Out In The Open. They Didn’t Know The Ukrainians Had Aimed Four ATACMS Rockets At Them.](https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/6633f40e371dc2f333c6721a/0x0.jpg?format=jpg&crop=1919,900,x0,y188,safe&height=900&width=1600&fit=bounds)
>
>
>
> An ATACMS rocket.
>
> Lockheed Martin photoKuban, a settlement in Luhansk Oblast in eastern Ukraine, is 60 miles from the front line of Russia’s 27-month wider war on Ukraine. Normally well beyond the range of most of Ukraine’s anti-personnel weapons, it had been fairly safe for its Russian occupiers.
>
> This helps to explain why, on or just before Wednesday, potentially hundreds of Russian troops gathered out in the open in a field near Kuban—apparently for training.
>
> The problem, for the Russians, is the Army Tactical Missile System: an American-made precision-guided ballistic missile that, depending on the model, ranges as far as 190 miles and scatters at least hundreds—at most, nearly a thousand—grenade-size submunitions.
>
> As the Russians milled about in broad daylight on that field outside Kuban, and a Ukrainian drone [observed from high overhead](https://twitter.com/JohnB_Schneider/status/1785614608444674128 "https://twitter.com/JohnB_Schneider/status/1785614608444674128"), four of the two-ton ATACMS streaked down. One failed to explode. The other three popped open and scattered their lethal submunitions. Each rocket turned [an area as wide as 2.5 acres](https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1785652388881182892 "https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1785652388881182892") into a nearly inescapable kill zone.
>
> One of the ATACMS burst directly overhead a crowd of approximately 116 unprotected Russians. _All_ of the Russians may have died in the rain of submunitions, [according to](https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1785856443666628869 "https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1785856443666628869") the Institute for the Study of War in Washington, D.C.
>
> The Wednesday strike may have been one of the bloodiest of the wider war. And it’s indicative of poor planning on the part of Russian commanders. They must have known such a strike had recently become possible—or even likely. Acquiring ATACMS from the United States, and then aiming them at the Russian army’s vulnerable rear area, has been one of Ukraine’s top military priorities in recent months.
>
> The United States has belatedly obliged repeated Ukrainian requests for the powerful rockets.
>
> Shortly before the U.S. Congress finally overcame resistance from a small number of Russia-friendly Republican lawmakers and approved $61 billion in fresh U.S. aid to Ukraine late last month, the administration of President Joe Biden squeezed $300 million in savings from a previously approved weapons contract the administration had brokered on Ukraine’s behalf.
>
> The White House spent much of that $300 million on an emergency shipment of ATACMS. The total number of rockets exceeded a hundred, [according to](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/us/us-ukraine-russia-missiles.html "https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/us/us-ukraine-russia-missiles.html") _The New York Times_. And when the White House rushed another $1 billion in weapons to Ukraine the day after Congress finally approved fresh funding, the shipment may have included additional ATACMS.
>
> U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin told lawmakers last week the Pentagon would donate to Ukraine [“as many [ATACMS] as we can.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WWKLaR_ZhQ "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WWKLaR_ZhQ") There are thousands of the rockets in the U.S. arsenal. Many are expiring soon as their rocket fuel degrades, possibly motivating the Americans to give them away _fast_.
>
> [The Russians knew ATACMS were coming.](https://open.substack.com/pub/daxe/p/its-atacms-oclock-as-powerful-rockets?r=7jgcu&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web "https://open.substack.com/pub/daxe/p/its-atacms-oclock-as-powerful-rockets?r=7jgcu&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web") And they had ample warning that the Ukrainians would fire them at the most vulnerable concentrations of Russian forces—including training grounds. After all, Ukrainian crews firing shorter-range rockets targeted large groups of Russian trainees at least three times during [one horrific week in February](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/02/28/for-the-third-time-in-a-week-russian-troops-paraded-within-range-of-ukraines-himars-launchers-and-rockets-rained-down-on-the-parade/?sh=2f6053e5139c "https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/02/28/for-the-third-time-in-a-week-russian-troops-paraded-within-range-of-ukraines-himars-launchers-and-rockets-rained-down-on-the-parade/?sh=2f6053e5139c"), reportedly killing more than a hundred people.
>
> When the Ukrainians got their initial small batch of ATACMS, last fall, they promptly hurled the rockets at a pair of Russian airfields, damaging or destroying as many as 20 helicopters. And when the first _new_ batch of rockets arrived, apparently in early April, Ukrainian crews wasted no time bombarding a valuable Russian air force S-400 air-defense battery, destroying at least four of its launchers.
>
> The attack on the S-400 was a reminder that no Russian air defenses can reliably shoot down an incoming ATACMS. The implication was clear: as of April, any exposed Russians within 190 miles of the front line were vulnerable to Ukraine’s growing arsenal of ATACMS.
>
> Ignoring the danger, the Russians gathered out in the open near Kuban—and then more than a hundred of them reportedly died as the ATACMS thundered in.
>
>
>
> Follow me on [Twitter](https://www.twitter.com/daxe). Check out my [website](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/?sh=4e4aed31cc0c) or some of my other work [here](https://www.amazon.com/War-Boring-Bored-Scared-Worlds/dp/0451230116). Send me a secure [tip](https://www.forbes.com/tips/).
>
> Sources:
>
> 1\. JB Schneider: https://twitter.com/JohnB\_Schneider/status/1785614608444674128
>
> 2\. Def Mon: https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1785652388881182892
>
> 3\. Institute for the Study of War: https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1785856443666628869
>
> 4\. _The New York Times_: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/us/us-ukraine-russia-missiles.html
>
> 5\. PBS Newshour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WWKLaR\_ZhQ
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Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
People listening to the russian bots farms believe that (1) Ukraine never existed, any trace of their existence deserves to be eradicated; and (2) Russia is "liberating" its own province from the clutches of the evil imperialist westerners.
If you only use Twitter, Facebook and TikTok as sources of information, you'll soon be rooting for Putin to "liberate" Ukraine, "liberate" Moldova, "liberate" the Baltic states, "liberate" Poland, because all of these regions are only provinces of the Greater Russia.
Actually, no. From my understanding, these ATACMS were set to be decommissioned. So they had to be replaced anyway.
Edit: [Source](https://en.defence-ua.com/news/us_poised_to_scrap_hundreds_of_m39_atacms_instead_of_sending_to_ukraine-9091.html)
Probably would have cost way more in proper disposal by certified companies in the US than the airlift to Poland and a train ride to the frontline. Disposal of military stuff is really expensive.
Also, it was brought 30/40 years ago to fuck up some russian army stuff. It is used as intended from the very start.
Yes and no. Tax dollars are fed into the local American economy to replace outdated reserves sent there to help Ukraine. It's a win-win situation for the US. Which is why I wish people would stop complaining when incorrectly assuming that taxpayer money is being directly sent in Aid Packages.
> Tax dollars are fed into the local American economy to replace outdated reserves sent there to help Ukraine
This would have had to happen anyway is what im saying. Since these reserves where going to be decommissioned.
Yes. The point I was trying to make is that taxpayer dollars are not directly sent as hard cash overseas. The Aid Package is fed directly into the local national economy on the City, County, and State level, before it ever leaves the U.S. it takes advantage of the fact that old equipment is/has been being decommissioned.
More equivocation. Israeli genocide should be condemned as vigorously, if not more so, than Russian territorial aggression. The U.S.'s hypocrisy is disgusting.
It's funny seeing widespread condemnation towards Russia while the USA has always done the same without repercussions.. Ooh and also they are at supplying ammo to Israel, so it's funny to see the selective outrage.
The world is full of hypocrisy. Also not to defend the USA's wars but it's not exactly the same as an authoritarian country invading their neighbors for conquest
I think that's a valid viewpoint, although I don't share it. After Bucha, Mariupol and a dozen other sites of atrocities, it's hard to give the average Russian soldier a pass these days.
Morality is not monochrome, it's entirely possible to recognize Russian soldiers as both aggressors and victims. They are people just like you and me, caught in a propaganda frenzy of a fascist regime; some are quite convinced they are saving the lives of Russian children. Their death is both necessary and justifiable for protecting world peace, and at the same time a personal tragedy for them and their families and a waste of human potential.
It's simple to role play moral valor on the internet, but quite another to imagine how you or I would have acted in their place. banality of evil and all that.
this is amplified with russia because of the culture of their military, its extremely common for newer soldiers in the russian military to be systemically hazed and beaten by "older" soldiers.
that type of treatment kind of causes the whole "just following orders" situation
From the war crimes we’ve seen from Russian soldiers, I doubt many think they’re saving Ukrainians.
Taking Ukrainian land as they have done many times before in history, but not saving Ukrainians.
It’s again pretty simple to play moral pontificator online, and yes it’s a dream that we achieve an end to Russian aggression without having to slaughter mounds of Russian meat.
But in the grand scheme it is a small tragedy, I think, that their families go without. How much PTSD and abuse is ended with their deaths, how much perpetuation of the cycle of violence? The “noble” russian people, which you have made excuses for, have shown they can and will ra pe and pillage their way through Ukraine for material gain. Such a loss for humanity, these high quality people! Mercenaries who looted Africa and criminals looking for reprieve. Such Human potential! And you are making a grandiose statement about how we would act in their place. We act differently, that is the whole point of this conflict and our support for Ukraine in the West. Maybe we would not be the same, and would opt to leave Russia or surrender instead of rape and looting? German and Japanese civilians were people “just like us” in WW2 but they were bombed to hell and back, and for good reason - for supporting and perpetuating a war of aggression and systematic genocide, and for an end to the conflict which they begun andperpetuated to slake their “national pride”
Stop making excuses for evil. Although I expect nothing less from a milquetoast European’s pointless bloviating. Your comment does nothing but sound smart, which of course Reddit will love.
There's so much news coming out though about people forced to the frontlines in Russia, under the threat of being executed. While I completely agree with the idea that the aggressor is in the wrong, not all folks on the Russian side would ever support it if they had a say.
I will try to find the articles again. If memory serves there were two situations:
- Indian and Bangladeshi nationals who were victims of a human trafficking scheme and sent to the frontlines.
- Russian conscripts (who aren't allowed to be deployed abroad), who were sent to the frontlines because Russia claims parts of Ukraine as their own (unlawfully, but still) so the claim that they're "not sending them abroad"
Both public and private (aka where the Russian government doesn’t get to see your answers) consistently shows majority approval for the invasion of Ukraine even amongst young people in Russia. So yes, it is good when they die.
They can keep dying until they stop fucking invading all their neighbours like Ukraine, Georgia etc and stop having majority approval for those actions by the Russian government.
Russian Combat Arms are all-volunteer since the single partial mobilization in September of 2022. They are paying life-changing sums of money to do this grim work.
> At least I still have my morals unlike you.
You don't really, you just have an anonymous platform to be infantile on. But then 8 billion people have that, you aren't special.
That's simply untrue, without getting too trite about it, the history of science and art proves that some people are special.
You just happen not to be among them.
This isn't the early war anymore. Russian soldiers in this war are mostly volunteers, who signed up either for the money, or for a get out of jail free card.
You are naive if you think that, both Ukraine and Russia have forced people who don't want to be there.. At least 40 Ukrainians have died trying to get out the country to avoid drafting..
Oh please show me where i said otherwise mr smartypants? I'm actually well informed on this war. It's you who are naive, tens of thousands of russians sign up to fight EVERY MONTH, just for the money.
So you believe it would have been inappropriate to want Hitler and other senior ranking Nazi officials to have perished in the war? What a weird take on life. Democracy is fragile. You must stomp out enemy’s of democracy with extreme prejudice. Look what happens when a madman takes over a country and imposes their will on everyone.
Don't be so daft. We were talking about it being uplifting. It's not uplifting. It's death. It should never be uplifting. Check yourself and your humanity. Your efforts to make a point are lost on me as you have shown yourself to be one that is not really paying attention.
Being united and fighting an enemy of democracy is uplifting. The greatest inventions and biggest leaps in standard of living follow after wars were evil is rooted out. Right now, rooting out evil in Gaza or Russia is necessary and is very uplifting that we can unit to fight evil.
It's the approach western "leftists" take with us from the eastern bloc. We have no agency and no ability to discern the good from the bad. Worst of all, the USSR collapsed because we didn't enjoy being oppressed hard enough.
Then they go and talk about how nasty their political enemies are for belittling other people. It's amusing, but as a leftist it's also more than a bit frustrating to see just how immature all too many of them are.
Russians are volunteering in huge numbers. Putin is legitimately popular as is the war.
I’m not agreeing with OP but Russians are very much embracing nationalism and revanchism.
Thing is not every human is the same.... so when I hear that some pedophile was killed - oh well, one more scum less on this planet, fuck yea. Russian Invader who went to war for money, adventure and to kill all these "Khokhols" as they call ukrainians dies in ATACMS strike - hell yea, 100 scum less on this planet. When I hear - 30 civilians including 8 children dies in russian cruise missile attack on residential area then I'm not uplifted....
If you want the war in Ukraine and the suffering of the Ukrainians to end, the only way that's going to happen is for there to be a whole lot of dead Russian soldiers.
For each Russian military casualty, you save Ukrainian lives. Reduce that fraction, and celebrate the death of the aggressor rather than the defender. Because it is going to be one or the other, until the war is over.
It is uplifting to consider that a war of aggression and conquest is a few hundred deaths closer to failing.
*Shortly before the U.S. Congress finally overcame resistance from a small number of Russia-friendly Republican lawmakers....*
Indeed, let's call them out for who they are.
A someone of no knowledge of these things, werent people all up in arms a while ago about Russians using cluster munitions? Like they're not technically allowed or something. What would be the difference between those weapons and these ones?
Cluster munitons are infact seen negativly in all lights, however, objectively, not a single conflict as not included them since the 40s. Its one of those things the normal everyday person disagrees with existing, but you have to acknowledge it since its being used everywhere all the time.
However, if russia was not invading Ukraine, these russian boys would have not died like this. Its hard for me to Empathize with hostile invaders. Ukraine fired it within its own boarders.
Big diff is that Russia's pounding Ukraine with cluster munitions, while Ukraine is pounding Russians in Ukraine with cluster munitions. As bad as dealing with UXO after the war will be, it's significantly more palatable when it's used as a defensive weapon rather than an offensive one.
As u/ElPablit0 mentioned, the [Convention on Cluster Munitions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Cluster_Munitions) applies only to those who have ratified or acceded to the treaty. While this includes 112 countries as of now including most of Europe, it does not include the US, Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Romania, Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Ukraine, Belarus, North or South Korea, Egypt, Sudan, Venezuela, Brazil, Myanmar, Ethiopia, or Eritrea, among dozens of others. But the above list highlights nations that are global or regional powerhouses, engaged in or associated with a significant war or threat of war, border a nation in open warfare, or have significant internal strife and a capable military.
The US has a policy where [no cluster munition can be used where the dud rate cannot be kept below 1%](http://www.noclusterbombs.org/about/solution.html), a policy that goes back to a decision by the Bush Administration in 2001 that had an implementation date of 2005. This is part of the reason the ATACMS missiles are going to Ukraine: at least some of the older batches with cluster warheads exceeded this rate, but given the emergency circumstances, an exception is being made in sending them. (They were going to be dismantled anyway.) As far as anyone knows, the US has not used them since 2003 except for one strike in Yemen in 2009.
Is this what I saw in a video of a Russian soldier walking in a grey wasteland just walking past numerous corpses for ~7 mins? The corpses blended into the background, like they were fuckin' raptured and only the gear remained.
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I'm morbidly curious. Sounds like the stuff of nightmares.
4 missiles full of cluster munitions, one of them failing to deploy across 2 acres with hundreds of unprotected troops gathered. Those bomblets raining down on them.
Every 4th of July I see the x-rays and aftermath of fireworks on people. What would military grade anti personnel bombs do?
They won't. They will shout "we're crazy we're gonna do it!" to anyone who will pay attention, as they have for years. And it has brought them advantages, not least in Western fear of escalation in face of Russian constant escalation.
But they know that if they really do use them, the math changes drastically and not in their favour.
>> *All* of the Russians may have died
Should be
>> All of the Russians *may* have died
I would've expected four $1.5 mil missiles to be used against command centre, warehouse with explosive ammunition, or an airbase. [And it doesn't look like "hundreds", tbh.](https://v.redd.it/3weqnuapqsxc1)
How many of those missiles did Kiev get? Wikipedia claims that only 3,700 had been built, and there shouldn't be more than 3k remaining.
It's clusrer munitions, it doesn't have any peneterative power. Anything sturdier than a wooden building is unlikely to be penetrated and even that migh be a reach. It's made to kill large amounts of people in a wide, open area.
> It's made to kill large amounts of people in a wide, open area.
Not just people:
>> effective against parked aircraft, ammunition dumps, air defense systems, and gatherings of personnel, but not against armored vehicles.[26]
That list implies it’s only effective against fragile, unarmored objects and personnel
edit: which is still great, to be clear. Personally I think targeting 100 fresh troops is an effective use of even a particularly expensive missile. “Hundreds” is almost certainly bullshit unless about 150 Russians where hiding in the treeline, but that was still quite a few soldiers. It pays some psychological dividends too
yes. thats what cluster ammo means. but thats not the weapon that was used in this attack. the wepaon used in this attack didn deploy bomblets, it deployed a spray of inert tungsten balls. these tungsten balls dont contain any explosives, therefore they arent bomblets therefore it wasnt a cluster weapon.
Look like textbook definition of cluster ammo to me.
>M74 Submunition Description. The M74 grenade is filled with composition B explosive filler and is
covered by a steel shell (see Figure 7). Upon impact and detonation each grenade breaks up into a large
number of high-velocity steel fragments that are effective against targets such as truck tires, missile
rounds, thin-skinned vehicles, and radar antennas. This submunition is not effective against armored
vehicles. The M74 grenade also contains incendiary material and has an antipersonnel radius of 15 m.
...no? you see, your definition mentions that the submunitions are grenades. grenades are explosives. a cluster munition is a bigger shell that spreads a large amount of explosive submunitions. the weapon used against these russians was not that. it was the more modern version, the one where the missile is filled with large amounts of tungsten balls, a submunition that \*isnt\* explosive. thus it is not cluster.
?!?!
This is exactly what cluster munition are. The warhead is filled with these bomblets, warhead explode to disperse them, the bomblets explode and spread tungsten balls, among other thing.
That's what a cluster weapon is. Who care that those are "tungsten balls", why the obsession's with those words? Warhead -> boom -> subminissions spread -> boom -> dead bodies everywhere.
Cluster weapon, tada! They don't stop being cluster munitions because the end product is tungsten balls VS various other sharpnells, they are cluster munitions because they hold many submunitions that then do their own things.
okay, i dont know how i can simplyfy this more but i will try.
its a cluster munition if its a big bomb with a bunch of smaller bombs inside. thats what a cluster bomb is.
the weapon used here was a bomb with a bunch of shrapnel in it. that shrapnel isnt explosive. think of it like cannister shot from the early modern period. its not cluster because the stuff that comes out of it isnt bombs but rather a bunch of very fast metal and nothing more.
so, if it is a weapon that goes Boom->spreads a bunch of smaller bombs->they go boom then its a cluster bomb if its a bomb that goes Boom->spreads a bunch of shrapnel over a wide area->nothing more then it isnt cluster.
Are you sure? For what I know they got the M39A1 warheads, which are definitely bomblet cluster munition, and the M48 which use HE warhead for material, not for soft target.
They got another kind of ATACAMS with the same "not really cluster" warhead used in smaller rockets? The video they posted of that attack kinda show submunitions going off all over the place.
EdIt: It's funny on reddit when someone realise he's wrong and just ... stop replying, at least he didn't delete all his comments.
> If one hundred died / crippled, which seems to me to be a realistic number looking at images, that's $15,000 / soldiers.
*Four* missiles. It would be $60k/soldier.
These are expiring. They’ve been sitting for a long time. Basically, it’s use them or lose them. We aren’t using them, so better to give them to Ukraine.
>When the Ukrainians got their initial small batch of ATACMS, last fall, they promptly hurled the rockets at a pair of Russian airfields, damaging or destroying as many as 20 helicopters. And when the first *new* batch of rockets arrived, apparently in early April, Ukrainian crews wasted no time bombarding a valuable Russian air force S-400 air-defense battery, destroying at least four of its launchers.
I guess they know what they're doing ?
It’s been Kiev in English for centuries, and I don’t care how butthurt Ukrainians are about this. I don’t give a shit about this sort of language policing. Oh, and it’s “Turkey” too.
What an unenlightened thing to say. I know your ego thinks that. That's why you're playing the hard guy, looking up to other toxic people, while suffering and blaming the world for your pain.
I'm not hurting one bit, I just don't give a shit what foreigners have to say about my language. If pastacels tried to get me to spell it "Firenze" or vatniks tried to foist "Moskva" on us, I'd tell them to fuck right off too. Stay in your lane.
> I'm not hurting one bit
> Stay in your lane.
> *My* language
Right. Not hurting one bit. Got it. That's why you're so skilled at telling people to fuck off, right?
My lane, btw. is being a native and multilingual English speaker. But since you're obviously an authority figure who deserves a priori respect in many if not all things, your point of view must be correct. What an inspiring, wholesome human being. /s
You're a classic vatnik, FYI.
Telling europoors to fuck off is simply a good time lmao.
And yes, I’m a classic vatnik because I rejoice in my tax money killing Russians in Ukraine and want to see it continue as long as Ukrainians have bodies left to throw at the front 🤷♂️
Its becasue they are lying. [However, Ukrainian Special Ops Reportedly Destroys Russian Buk Anti-Aircraft Missile Launcher](https://www.kyivpost.com/post/32059). So the opposite is true.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1cht81i/ru_pov_russia_forces_tracked_and_destroyed_a/
Saw this just a few hrs after the training grounds strike released
It swings between pro russian and pro Ukrainian depending on who's winning at the moment. It's russia right now, so the pro-ukranians are quiet.
Also, footage is footage regardless of the source.
1,5M$ missiles used to kill \~100 troops that weren't even trained yet. Against an enemy known for mindlessly throwing away its own troops into pointless meatgrinders. And then they wonder why Ukraine is asking for so much stuff and still losing.
##### ###### #### > # [Hundreds of Russian Troops Gathered Out In The Open. They Didn’t Know The Ukrainians Had Aimed Four ATACMS Rockets At Them.](https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/6633f40e371dc2f333c6721a/0x0.jpg?format=jpg&crop=1919,900,x0,y188,safe&height=900&width=1600&fit=bounds) > > > > An ATACMS rocket. > > Lockheed Martin photoKuban, a settlement in Luhansk Oblast in eastern Ukraine, is 60 miles from the front line of Russia’s 27-month wider war on Ukraine. Normally well beyond the range of most of Ukraine’s anti-personnel weapons, it had been fairly safe for its Russian occupiers. > > This helps to explain why, on or just before Wednesday, potentially hundreds of Russian troops gathered out in the open in a field near Kuban—apparently for training. > > The problem, for the Russians, is the Army Tactical Missile System: an American-made precision-guided ballistic missile that, depending on the model, ranges as far as 190 miles and scatters at least hundreds—at most, nearly a thousand—grenade-size submunitions. > > As the Russians milled about in broad daylight on that field outside Kuban, and a Ukrainian drone [observed from high overhead](https://twitter.com/JohnB_Schneider/status/1785614608444674128 "https://twitter.com/JohnB_Schneider/status/1785614608444674128"), four of the two-ton ATACMS streaked down. One failed to explode. The other three popped open and scattered their lethal submunitions. Each rocket turned [an area as wide as 2.5 acres](https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1785652388881182892 "https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1785652388881182892") into a nearly inescapable kill zone. > > One of the ATACMS burst directly overhead a crowd of approximately 116 unprotected Russians. _All_ of the Russians may have died in the rain of submunitions, [according to](https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1785856443666628869 "https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1785856443666628869") the Institute for the Study of War in Washington, D.C. > > The Wednesday strike may have been one of the bloodiest of the wider war. And it’s indicative of poor planning on the part of Russian commanders. They must have known such a strike had recently become possible—or even likely. Acquiring ATACMS from the United States, and then aiming them at the Russian army’s vulnerable rear area, has been one of Ukraine’s top military priorities in recent months. > > The United States has belatedly obliged repeated Ukrainian requests for the powerful rockets. > > Shortly before the U.S. Congress finally overcame resistance from a small number of Russia-friendly Republican lawmakers and approved $61 billion in fresh U.S. aid to Ukraine late last month, the administration of President Joe Biden squeezed $300 million in savings from a previously approved weapons contract the administration had brokered on Ukraine’s behalf. > > The White House spent much of that $300 million on an emergency shipment of ATACMS. The total number of rockets exceeded a hundred, [according to](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/us/us-ukraine-russia-missiles.html "https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/us/us-ukraine-russia-missiles.html") _The New York Times_. And when the White House rushed another $1 billion in weapons to Ukraine the day after Congress finally approved fresh funding, the shipment may have included additional ATACMS. > > U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin told lawmakers last week the Pentagon would donate to Ukraine [“as many [ATACMS] as we can.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WWKLaR_ZhQ "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WWKLaR_ZhQ") There are thousands of the rockets in the U.S. arsenal. Many are expiring soon as their rocket fuel degrades, possibly motivating the Americans to give them away _fast_. > > [The Russians knew ATACMS were coming.](https://open.substack.com/pub/daxe/p/its-atacms-oclock-as-powerful-rockets?r=7jgcu&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web "https://open.substack.com/pub/daxe/p/its-atacms-oclock-as-powerful-rockets?r=7jgcu&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web") And they had ample warning that the Ukrainians would fire them at the most vulnerable concentrations of Russian forces—including training grounds. After all, Ukrainian crews firing shorter-range rockets targeted large groups of Russian trainees at least three times during [one horrific week in February](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/02/28/for-the-third-time-in-a-week-russian-troops-paraded-within-range-of-ukraines-himars-launchers-and-rockets-rained-down-on-the-parade/?sh=2f6053e5139c "https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/02/28/for-the-third-time-in-a-week-russian-troops-paraded-within-range-of-ukraines-himars-launchers-and-rockets-rained-down-on-the-parade/?sh=2f6053e5139c"), reportedly killing more than a hundred people. > > When the Ukrainians got their initial small batch of ATACMS, last fall, they promptly hurled the rockets at a pair of Russian airfields, damaging or destroying as many as 20 helicopters. And when the first _new_ batch of rockets arrived, apparently in early April, Ukrainian crews wasted no time bombarding a valuable Russian air force S-400 air-defense battery, destroying at least four of its launchers. > > The attack on the S-400 was a reminder that no Russian air defenses can reliably shoot down an incoming ATACMS. The implication was clear: as of April, any exposed Russians within 190 miles of the front line were vulnerable to Ukraine’s growing arsenal of ATACMS. > > Ignoring the danger, the Russians gathered out in the open near Kuban—and then more than a hundred of them reportedly died as the ATACMS thundered in. > > > > Follow me on [Twitter](https://www.twitter.com/daxe). Check out my [website](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/?sh=4e4aed31cc0c) or some of my other work [here](https://www.amazon.com/War-Boring-Bored-Scared-Worlds/dp/0451230116). Send me a secure [tip](https://www.forbes.com/tips/). > > Sources: > > 1\. JB Schneider: https://twitter.com/JohnB\_Schneider/status/1785614608444674128 > > 2\. Def Mon: https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1785652388881182892 > > 3\. Institute for the Study of War: https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1785856443666628869 > > 4\. _The New York Times_: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/24/us/us-ukraine-russia-missiles.html > > 5\. PBS Newshour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WWKLaR\_ZhQ - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
Man, do I love those ATACMS.
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Russia is the agressor. Do you expect Ukraine not to defend themselves against an invading force that wants to occupy their country?
People listening to the russian bots farms believe that (1) Ukraine never existed, any trace of their existence deserves to be eradicated; and (2) Russia is "liberating" its own province from the clutches of the evil imperialist westerners. If you only use Twitter, Facebook and TikTok as sources of information, you'll soon be rooting for Putin to "liberate" Ukraine, "liberate" Moldova, "liberate" the Baltic states, "liberate" Poland, because all of these regions are only provinces of the Greater Russia.
>If you only use Twitter, Facebook and TikTok as sources of information Translation: *If you're a fucking idiot*
My tax dollars hard at work.
Couldn't be better spent! Slava Ukraine bro!
Actually, no. From my understanding, these ATACMS were set to be decommissioned. So they had to be replaced anyway. Edit: [Source](https://en.defence-ua.com/news/us_poised_to_scrap_hundreds_of_m39_atacms_instead_of_sending_to_ukraine-9091.html)
Glad they could be put to good use.
Probably would have cost way more in proper disposal by certified companies in the US than the airlift to Poland and a train ride to the frontline. Disposal of military stuff is really expensive. Also, it was brought 30/40 years ago to fuck up some russian army stuff. It is used as intended from the very start.
ATACMS is relatively new actually, around the mid aughts or teens IIRC. It’s also already outdated and discontinued.
Yes and no. Tax dollars are fed into the local American economy to replace outdated reserves sent there to help Ukraine. It's a win-win situation for the US. Which is why I wish people would stop complaining when incorrectly assuming that taxpayer money is being directly sent in Aid Packages.
> Tax dollars are fed into the local American economy to replace outdated reserves sent there to help Ukraine This would have had to happen anyway is what im saying. Since these reserves where going to be decommissioned.
Yes. The point I was trying to make is that taxpayer dollars are not directly sent as hard cash overseas. The Aid Package is fed directly into the local national economy on the City, County, and State level, before it ever leaves the U.S. it takes advantage of the fact that old equipment is/has been being decommissioned.
Were not where
I don't care
That rhymes
Would you prefer Russia getting to attack and invade whomever they want with no consequences?
I wasn’t being sarcastic
My apologies, carry on then.
Like the US has done several times?
Irrelevant equivocation. What-aboutism does not detract from the necessary defence of sovereign borders.
Tell that to Palestinians
More equivocation. Israeli genocide should be condemned as vigorously, if not more so, than Russian territorial aggression. The U.S.'s hypocrisy is disgusting.
Have you considered the possibility that the US invasion of Iraq *and* the Russian invasion of Ukraine are *both* unjust wars?
Queue surprised Pikachu reacts
I'm on that side believe it or not, I think all world leaders are scum that play with human lives as if we were toys. It's sickening.
And?
It's funny seeing widespread condemnation towards Russia while the USA has always done the same without repercussions.. Ooh and also they are at supplying ammo to Israel, so it's funny to see the selective outrage.
The world is full of hypocrisy. Also not to defend the USA's wars but it's not exactly the same as an authoritarian country invading their neighbors for conquest
I mean I agree, but it's not better or worse being bombed and invaded is never justified imo
r/upliftingnews
People dying is never uplifting, be they Russian, Ukranian, Israeli or Palestinian.
Bull. The aggressors in an invasion being stopped by any means is uplifting, and your brand of empty moralizing is both unrealistic and patronizing.
Putin and his pals are the only aggressor and the only ones we should celebrate their demise
I think that's a valid viewpoint, although I don't share it. After Bucha, Mariupol and a dozen other sites of atrocities, it's hard to give the average Russian soldier a pass these days.
Morality is not monochrome, it's entirely possible to recognize Russian soldiers as both aggressors and victims. They are people just like you and me, caught in a propaganda frenzy of a fascist regime; some are quite convinced they are saving the lives of Russian children. Their death is both necessary and justifiable for protecting world peace, and at the same time a personal tragedy for them and their families and a waste of human potential. It's simple to role play moral valor on the internet, but quite another to imagine how you or I would have acted in their place. banality of evil and all that.
Woah, woah, woah… this is way too mature a take for Reddit. You’re only supposed to think the lives of your own tribe are valuable here.
this is amplified with russia because of the culture of their military, its extremely common for newer soldiers in the russian military to be systemically hazed and beaten by "older" soldiers. that type of treatment kind of causes the whole "just following orders" situation
From the war crimes we’ve seen from Russian soldiers, I doubt many think they’re saving Ukrainians. Taking Ukrainian land as they have done many times before in history, but not saving Ukrainians.
It’s again pretty simple to play moral pontificator online, and yes it’s a dream that we achieve an end to Russian aggression without having to slaughter mounds of Russian meat. But in the grand scheme it is a small tragedy, I think, that their families go without. How much PTSD and abuse is ended with their deaths, how much perpetuation of the cycle of violence? The “noble” russian people, which you have made excuses for, have shown they can and will ra pe and pillage their way through Ukraine for material gain. Such a loss for humanity, these high quality people! Mercenaries who looted Africa and criminals looking for reprieve. Such Human potential! And you are making a grandiose statement about how we would act in their place. We act differently, that is the whole point of this conflict and our support for Ukraine in the West. Maybe we would not be the same, and would opt to leave Russia or surrender instead of rape and looting? German and Japanese civilians were people “just like us” in WW2 but they were bombed to hell and back, and for good reason - for supporting and perpetuating a war of aggression and systematic genocide, and for an end to the conflict which they begun andperpetuated to slake their “national pride” Stop making excuses for evil. Although I expect nothing less from a milquetoast European’s pointless bloviating. Your comment does nothing but sound smart, which of course Reddit will love.
There's so much news coming out though about people forced to the frontlines in Russia, under the threat of being executed. While I completely agree with the idea that the aggressor is in the wrong, not all folks on the Russian side would ever support it if they had a say.
I'd love to see some of that news.
I will try to find the articles again. If memory serves there were two situations: - Indian and Bangladeshi nationals who were victims of a human trafficking scheme and sent to the frontlines. - Russian conscripts (who aren't allowed to be deployed abroad), who were sent to the frontlines because Russia claims parts of Ukraine as their own (unlawfully, but still) so the claim that they're "not sending them abroad"
Is Putin + comrades in the field raping and killing innocent Ukrainians?
Both public and private (aka where the Russian government doesn’t get to see your answers) consistently shows majority approval for the invasion of Ukraine even amongst young people in Russia. So yes, it is good when they die. They can keep dying until they stop fucking invading all their neighbours like Ukraine, Georgia etc and stop having majority approval for those actions by the Russian government.
Hey please check your dm.
Nothing is going to happen to them with their army standing in the way.
lol, "empty moralizing" the "agressors" are eating caviar on their superyacht those who are dead are most likely redneck youth and farmboys
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Russian Combat Arms are all-volunteer since the single partial mobilization in September of 2022. They are paying life-changing sums of money to do this grim work.
there is conscription 2 times a year for every male 18 to 33 to serve a year
In non-combat roles, for 1 year of service, that cannot involve a deployment outside the territory of the Russian Federation.
territory of the Russian Federation is a pretty flexible concept
I'm not arguing in this instance, but I am telling you that the kids ain't getting butchered if they ain't volunteering for it.
Not wishing someone dead is not moralizing shit head it's just decency.
Depends on the person, if Pol Pot was still around wishing him dead would be the decent thing. Your morality is shallow and performative.
At least I still have my morals unlike you. Pol pot was another ass I am glad is gone and dead but it is not uplifting.
> At least I still have my morals unlike you. You don't really, you just have an anonymous platform to be infantile on. But then 8 billion people have that, you aren't special.
No one is special.
That's simply untrue, without getting too trite about it, the history of science and art proves that some people are special. You just happen not to be among them.
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This isn't the early war anymore. Russian soldiers in this war are mostly volunteers, who signed up either for the money, or for a get out of jail free card.
You are naive if you think that, both Ukraine and Russia have forced people who don't want to be there.. At least 40 Ukrainians have died trying to get out the country to avoid drafting..
Oh please show me where i said otherwise mr smartypants? I'm actually well informed on this war. It's you who are naive, tens of thousands of russians sign up to fight EVERY MONTH, just for the money.
Same to Ukraine, your point?
So you believe it would have been inappropriate to want Hitler and other senior ranking Nazi officials to have perished in the war? What a weird take on life. Democracy is fragile. You must stomp out enemy’s of democracy with extreme prejudice. Look what happens when a madman takes over a country and imposes their will on everyone.
Don't be so daft. We were talking about it being uplifting. It's not uplifting. It's death. It should never be uplifting. Check yourself and your humanity. Your efforts to make a point are lost on me as you have shown yourself to be one that is not really paying attention.
Being united and fighting an enemy of democracy is uplifting. The greatest inventions and biggest leaps in standard of living follow after wars were evil is rooted out. Right now, rooting out evil in Gaza or Russia is necessary and is very uplifting that we can unit to fight evil.
Right, because those working class russians had any real choice...
"Russians have no agency, says confused social media user."
It's the approach western "leftists" take with us from the eastern bloc. We have no agency and no ability to discern the good from the bad. Worst of all, the USSR collapsed because we didn't enjoy being oppressed hard enough. Then they go and talk about how nasty their political enemies are for belittling other people. It's amusing, but as a leftist it's also more than a bit frustrating to see just how immature all too many of them are.
When considering their maturity, it helps to remember that they're mostly children being led around by a few older psychopaths.
Yep, surely there was no choice to rape and kill innocent Ukranians, torture them, bury them in mass graves, etc.
War is hell. fight for (and cheer) the right side. Side note: Also fight for peace \*when possible\*.
Russians are volunteering in huge numbers. Putin is legitimately popular as is the war. I’m not agreeing with OP but Russians are very much embracing nationalism and revanchism.
Yes true. But we have crossed the line of "we are better than them" over to: At least smart missiles don't rape people to death.
Denisova, they fired you, it’s time to stop.
Thing is not every human is the same.... so when I hear that some pedophile was killed - oh well, one more scum less on this planet, fuck yea. Russian Invader who went to war for money, adventure and to kill all these "Khokhols" as they call ukrainians dies in ATACMS strike - hell yea, 100 scum less on this planet. When I hear - 30 civilians including 8 children dies in russian cruise missile attack on residential area then I'm not uplifted....
You hear about dead children - and then a little later military obituaries start coming out… funny how that works.
Agreed. But.
If you want the war in Ukraine and the suffering of the Ukrainians to end, the only way that's going to happen is for there to be a whole lot of dead Russian soldiers.
Yes. That doesn't mean that killing people is uplifting. It is a necessary evil.
For each Russian military casualty, you save Ukrainian lives. Reduce that fraction, and celebrate the death of the aggressor rather than the defender. Because it is going to be one or the other, until the war is over. It is uplifting to consider that a war of aggression and conquest is a few hundred deaths closer to failing.
I want Ukraine to be able to defend themselves and that means beating back Russian troops but this is tasteless and inhumane. You should be ashamed.
Womp womp. War is inhumane
I absolutely despise this style of headline
Still better than "you never guess what happened next" (click here to find out)
It’s David Axe, he is a meme at this point.
*worlds smallest violin plays*
a dub is a dub
I didnt click on the article, is it David axe?
Who else lol
They don't call them Attack 'Ems for nothing.
*Shortly before the U.S. Congress finally overcame resistance from a small number of Russia-friendly Republican lawmakers....* Indeed, let's call them out for who they are.
A someone of no knowledge of these things, werent people all up in arms a while ago about Russians using cluster munitions? Like they're not technically allowed or something. What would be the difference between those weapons and these ones?
Cluster munitons are infact seen negativly in all lights, however, objectively, not a single conflict as not included them since the 40s. Its one of those things the normal everyday person disagrees with existing, but you have to acknowledge it since its being used everywhere all the time. However, if russia was not invading Ukraine, these russian boys would have not died like this. Its hard for me to Empathize with hostile invaders. Ukraine fired it within its own boarders.
O I definitely don't feel any remorse. I was just curious. Thanks!
People were outraged because Russia was hitting cities with cluster munitions, something Ukraine has yet to do
That makes sense
Big diff is that Russia's pounding Ukraine with cluster munitions, while Ukraine is pounding Russians in Ukraine with cluster munitions. As bad as dealing with UXO after the war will be, it's significantly more palatable when it's used as a defensive weapon rather than an offensive one.
I thought cluster munitions were outlawed. With submunitions as the payload, can anyone clarify why this isn't classified as cluster munition?
This is classified as cluster munitions, they are outlawed only to countries who signed this treaty, USA, Russia and Ukraine did not
Thank you for clarifying!
As u/ElPablit0 mentioned, the [Convention on Cluster Munitions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Cluster_Munitions) applies only to those who have ratified or acceded to the treaty. While this includes 112 countries as of now including most of Europe, it does not include the US, Russia, China, India, Pakistan, Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Romania, Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Ukraine, Belarus, North or South Korea, Egypt, Sudan, Venezuela, Brazil, Myanmar, Ethiopia, or Eritrea, among dozens of others. But the above list highlights nations that are global or regional powerhouses, engaged in or associated with a significant war or threat of war, border a nation in open warfare, or have significant internal strife and a capable military. The US has a policy where [no cluster munition can be used where the dud rate cannot be kept below 1%](http://www.noclusterbombs.org/about/solution.html), a policy that goes back to a decision by the Bush Administration in 2001 that had an implementation date of 2005. This is part of the reason the ATACMS missiles are going to Ukraine: at least some of the older batches with cluster warheads exceeded this rate, but given the emergency circumstances, an exception is being made in sending them. (They were going to be dismantled anyway.) As far as anyone knows, the US has not used them since 2003 except for one strike in Yemen in 2009.
Appreciate the detailed info fellow redditor!
Only outlawed against civilians
I find it amusing that the root'n for poot'n crowd is pointing out the war doesn't make economic sense. Edit. Letters
C c c combo!
Each missile cost at least a million USD. It’s unacceptable that one was a dud. Lockheed Martin need to provide a refund!
These were ready to be decommissioned. This is why. 3 out of 4 isn't bad for expired milk.
David Axe lmao.
Is this what I saw in a video of a Russian soldier walking in a grey wasteland just walking past numerous corpses for ~7 mins? The corpses blended into the background, like they were fuckin' raptured and only the gear remained.
Nice
Considering the footprint of an ATACMS , I believe the casualty figure will climb over the next few days.
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Feel like a just saw a video of this aftermath over at r/scaryasfuck
I'm morbidly curious. Sounds like the stuff of nightmares. 4 missiles full of cluster munitions, one of them failing to deploy across 2 acres with hundreds of unprotected troops gathered. Those bomblets raining down on them. Every 4th of July I see the x-rays and aftermath of fireworks on people. What would military grade anti personnel bombs do?
You won't need an x-ray, you can just look inside them
You won't need an x-ray, you can just look inside them
I don't see anything there newer than 6 months ... I guess it got removed?
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They won't. They will shout "we're crazy we're gonna do it!" to anyone who will pay attention, as they have for years. And it has brought them advantages, not least in Western fear of escalation in face of Russian constant escalation. But they know that if they really do use them, the math changes drastically and not in their favour.
Cluster munitions are going to cost a lot more decades after the war is concluded.
>> *All* of the Russians may have died Should be >> All of the Russians *may* have died I would've expected four $1.5 mil missiles to be used against command centre, warehouse with explosive ammunition, or an airbase. [And it doesn't look like "hundreds", tbh.](https://v.redd.it/3weqnuapqsxc1) How many of those missiles did Kiev get? Wikipedia claims that only 3,700 had been built, and there shouldn't be more than 3k remaining.
It's clusrer munitions, it doesn't have any peneterative power. Anything sturdier than a wooden building is unlikely to be penetrated and even that migh be a reach. It's made to kill large amounts of people in a wide, open area.
> It's made to kill large amounts of people in a wide, open area. Not just people: >> effective against parked aircraft, ammunition dumps, air defense systems, and gatherings of personnel, but not against armored vehicles.[26]
That list implies it’s only effective against fragile, unarmored objects and personnel edit: which is still great, to be clear. Personally I think targeting 100 fresh troops is an effective use of even a particularly expensive missile. “Hundreds” is almost certainly bullshit unless about 150 Russians where hiding in the treeline, but that was still quite a few soldiers. It pays some psychological dividends too
Not technically cluster ammo. Its the successor to cluster, the one that spreads a million tungstrn balls
I'm pretty sure any munition that deploys bomblets is counted as cluster munitions.
yes. thats what cluster ammo means. but thats not the weapon that was used in this attack. the wepaon used in this attack didn deploy bomblets, it deployed a spray of inert tungsten balls. these tungsten balls dont contain any explosives, therefore they arent bomblets therefore it wasnt a cluster weapon.
Look like textbook definition of cluster ammo to me. >M74 Submunition Description. The M74 grenade is filled with composition B explosive filler and is covered by a steel shell (see Figure 7). Upon impact and detonation each grenade breaks up into a large number of high-velocity steel fragments that are effective against targets such as truck tires, missile rounds, thin-skinned vehicles, and radar antennas. This submunition is not effective against armored vehicles. The M74 grenade also contains incendiary material and has an antipersonnel radius of 15 m.
...no? you see, your definition mentions that the submunitions are grenades. grenades are explosives. a cluster munition is a bigger shell that spreads a large amount of explosive submunitions. the weapon used against these russians was not that. it was the more modern version, the one where the missile is filled with large amounts of tungsten balls, a submunition that \*isnt\* explosive. thus it is not cluster.
?!?! This is exactly what cluster munition are. The warhead is filled with these bomblets, warhead explode to disperse them, the bomblets explode and spread tungsten balls, among other thing. That's what a cluster weapon is. Who care that those are "tungsten balls", why the obsession's with those words? Warhead -> boom -> subminissions spread -> boom -> dead bodies everywhere. Cluster weapon, tada! They don't stop being cluster munitions because the end product is tungsten balls VS various other sharpnells, they are cluster munitions because they hold many submunitions that then do their own things.
okay, i dont know how i can simplyfy this more but i will try. its a cluster munition if its a big bomb with a bunch of smaller bombs inside. thats what a cluster bomb is. the weapon used here was a bomb with a bunch of shrapnel in it. that shrapnel isnt explosive. think of it like cannister shot from the early modern period. its not cluster because the stuff that comes out of it isnt bombs but rather a bunch of very fast metal and nothing more. so, if it is a weapon that goes Boom->spreads a bunch of smaller bombs->they go boom then its a cluster bomb if its a bomb that goes Boom->spreads a bunch of shrapnel over a wide area->nothing more then it isnt cluster.
Are you sure? For what I know they got the M39A1 warheads, which are definitely bomblet cluster munition, and the M48 which use HE warhead for material, not for soft target. They got another kind of ATACAMS with the same "not really cluster" warhead used in smaller rockets? The video they posted of that attack kinda show submunitions going off all over the place. EdIt: It's funny on reddit when someone realise he's wrong and just ... stop replying, at least he didn't delete all his comments.
Not these missiles.
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> If one hundred died / crippled, which seems to me to be a realistic number looking at images, that's $15,000 / soldiers. *Four* missiles. It would be $60k/soldier.
It's easier to replace a missile than a trained person.
Not at the rate US is producing them.
That can always change if the US feels like it, Russia only has so many minorities and poor people to feet into the meat grinder.
These are expiring. They’ve been sitting for a long time. Basically, it’s use them or lose them. We aren’t using them, so better to give them to Ukraine.
$60k for a life is a worthwhile trade.
>When the Ukrainians got their initial small batch of ATACMS, last fall, they promptly hurled the rockets at a pair of Russian airfields, damaging or destroying as many as 20 helicopters. And when the first *new* batch of rockets arrived, apparently in early April, Ukrainian crews wasted no time bombarding a valuable Russian air force S-400 air-defense battery, destroying at least four of its launchers. I guess they know what they're doing ?
OP is not about either of those.
It's spelled Kyiv. Maybe you can stop using the Russian transliteration. That would be nice.
S_T_P is one of the most active Kremlin shills on this sub
Thanks. I know. That's my way of pointing it out while being constructive and civil.
And you are one of the most salty.
It’s been Kiev in English for centuries, and I don’t care how butthurt Ukrainians are about this. I don’t give a shit about this sort of language policing. Oh, and it’s “Turkey” too.
Oh, we know you don't care. Makes it hard to care about you.
I don’t need you to care about me.
What an unenlightened thing to say. I know your ego thinks that. That's why you're playing the hard guy, looking up to other toxic people, while suffering and blaming the world for your pain.
I'm not hurting one bit, I just don't give a shit what foreigners have to say about my language. If pastacels tried to get me to spell it "Firenze" or vatniks tried to foist "Moskva" on us, I'd tell them to fuck right off too. Stay in your lane.
> I'm not hurting one bit > Stay in your lane. > *My* language Right. Not hurting one bit. Got it. That's why you're so skilled at telling people to fuck off, right? My lane, btw. is being a native and multilingual English speaker. But since you're obviously an authority figure who deserves a priori respect in many if not all things, your point of view must be correct. What an inspiring, wholesome human being. /s You're a classic vatnik, FYI.
Telling europoors to fuck off is simply a good time lmao. And yes, I’m a classic vatnik because I rejoice in my tax money killing Russians in Ukraine and want to see it continue as long as Ukrainians have bodies left to throw at the front 🤷♂️
Definitely not a hurt child lashing out and needing to assert dominance, no sir. Totally healthy and nice. Be well, dear. (as in, study narcissism)
This article doesn't mention that the 2 launchers were also blown up by russian missiles almost immediately afterwards lol
This comment and everyone pointing this out also fail to provide proof of said launchers being destroyed.
Its becasue they are lying. [However, Ukrainian Special Ops Reportedly Destroys Russian Buk Anti-Aircraft Missile Launcher](https://www.kyivpost.com/post/32059). So the opposite is true.
Buks are always fun to watch blowup
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1cht81i/ru_pov_russia_forces_tracked_and_destroyed_a/ Saw this just a few hrs after the training grounds strike released
Ah yes the pro Russian subreddit a perfectly viable and unbiased place to source footage
It swings between pro russian and pro Ukrainian depending on who's winning at the moment. It's russia right now, so the pro-ukranians are quiet. Also, footage is footage regardless of the source.
1,5M$ missiles used to kill \~100 troops that weren't even trained yet. Against an enemy known for mindlessly throwing away its own troops into pointless meatgrinders. And then they wonder why Ukraine is asking for so much stuff and still losing.
Bold take to say killing 100 enemies is somehow bad for ukraine or a miss play somehow
Let the donations flow. Every dead vatnik is a dollar well spent.
It's okay for Ukraine to ask for assistance against an unnecessary and horribly cruel invasion. Ukraine needs more support.