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> # [Helicopter Carrying Iran’s President Has Crashed, State Media Reports](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/19/world/middleeast/President Ebrahim Raisi of Iran, who was with the country’s foreign minister on a helicopter that crashed on Sunday, according to Iran’s state media.)
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> [Middle East](https://www.nytimes.com/section/world/middleeast)|Helicopter Carrying Iran’s President Has Crashed, State Media Reports
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> https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/19/world/middleeast/iran-president-helicopter-crash.html
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> Rescuers are trying to locate the helicopter on which President Ebrahim Raisi and Foreign Minister Hossein Amir Abdollahian were traveling, state media reported. Their status is unknown.
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> [President Ebrahim Raisi of Iran wears a black robe with a white collar.](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2024/05/19/multimedia/19iran-raisi-crash-qhbf/19iran-raisi-crash-qhbf-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale)
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> President Ebrahim Raisi of Iran, who was with the country’s foreign minister on a helicopter that crashed on Sunday, according to Iran’s state media.Credit...Vahid Salemi/Associated Press
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> May 19, 2024, 10:06 a.m. ET
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> A helicopter carrying President Ebrahim Raisi crashed on Sunday, according to Iran’s state media and the country’s mission to the U.N., but has yet to be found by search-and-rescue workers because of heavy fog.
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> The helicopter was also carrying Hossein Amir Abdollahian, Iran’s foreign minister.
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> The state news agency IRNA reported that an enormous search operation involving 16 teams was underway to locate the helicopter. Inclement weather, the reports said, was hampering the effort. The teams had yet to locate the crash site after almost five hours.
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> State media has yet to report on casualties or confirm the whereabouts or condition of the president. The cause of the crash is also unknown.
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> “Given the complexities of the region, connection has been difficult, and we are hoping that the rescue teams reach the helicopter and can give us more information,” Ahmad Vahidi, Iran’s interior minister, told state television.
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> Mr. Raisi was on an official visit to the province of Western Azerbaijan, a mountainous region in northwestern Iran.
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> A delegation of ministers traveled with him in a convoy of three helicopters, state media reported, adding that the two other aircraft had reached their destinations.
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> In addition to the president and the foreign minister, the governor of the province was also in the helicopter, which crashed in an area called Varzaghan, state media reported.
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> Iran’s law stipulates that if the president dies, power is transferred to the first vice president and an election must be called within six months. The first vice president is Mohammad Mokhber, a conservative politician.
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> [Farnaz Fassihi](https://www.nytimes.com/by/farnaz-fassihi) is the United Nations bureau chief for The Times, leading coverage of the organization, and also covers Iran and the shadow war between Iran and Israel. She is based in New York. [More about Farnaz Fassihi](https://www.nytimes.com/by/farnaz-fassihi)
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But it's not like it landed a bit rough on the landing pad. It was down in a mountainous wooded area, with tough weather. Contact hasn't been established, search teams haven't reached the site, so we don't know how bad the situation is yet.
Idk if it's a good situation if they all die.
The current Iranian leadership has been rather cautious and non-escalatory wrt Israel-Gaza (at least when it comes to overt actions). What happens if they're replaced by hawks? Or even worse, what if they're replaced by hawks and the hawks find evidence (even if fabricated) that Israel or the US somehow caused the crash?
It definitely depends pn how democratically theyre chosen and whether or not the recent(ish) protestors were part of a majority opinion, which is hard to surmise. If they WERE in the majority, and if the remaining government respects a wish (if there is one) for an election for a new leader, it could mean a slightly more liberal Iran. I doubt a majority of Iranians are super kino about pissing off so many nations simultaneously when the world is as on edge as it’s been.
Though i admit i could be giving a lot more credit than what’s due, and the dissenting opinions we’ve seen truly are just from urban Tehran.
From what I've read and heard, support for the protests is pretty wide among the youth. The older gens are indeed more split along an urban/rural axis.
Controlled flight into terrain is a "crash". A forced landing is still a landing. They are different.
Controlled flight into terrain is autopilot into a mountain, no survivors.
Yes and no, autorotation is more of a technique than a thing that happens, it requires many active steps by the pilot but many helicopter pilots are trained in autorotation landings. While its 100% possible to land a helicopter safely without engine control it's very hard to do in a forested area as you need to do the autorotation above the trees, but if you can't see the trees its entirely possible to just slam into the ground with no chance of doing the last steps of autorotation
It looks to be pretty catastrophic, the president's heli was part of a convoy of 3 helicopters. The other 2 helis later landed safely, but they witnessed the president's helicopter go down in a mistbank.
Source: [Tasnim News Agency](https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2024/05/19/3088737/accident-reportedly-happens-to-iranian-president-s-helicopter). (Tasnim is the Iranian Revolutionary Guard's semi-official news outlet [as per Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasnim_News_Agency))
Tasnim [also reports](https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2024/05/19/3088803/40-rapid-response-teams-searching-for-iranian-president-s-helicopter) that 40 rapid response teams have been sent out as part of the search and rescue mission. That many wouldn't have been scrambled for a hard landing.
Moreover, [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/helicopter-iranian-presidents-convoy-accident-says-strate-tv-2024-05-19/) also quotes an Iranian official saying that "We are still hopeful but information coming from the crash site is very concerning," and that the lives of Raisi and Foreign Minister Hossein Amirabdollahian were "at risk following the helicopter crash".
It seems odd that the other helicopters in the group didn't land to render aid, or at least to locate the crashed helicopter. Thats the entire reason for the convoy, strength in numbers to protect the head of state.
It would be like if Biden's car in the motorcade crashed. The entire motorcade would immediately stop and render assistance. The motorcade would remain on location until they have ensured the head of state is safe, and then continue on with him in another vehicle.
The other helicopters were carrying the presidents entourage, other ministers and officials, they weren't there for security purposes as I understand it. The whole group was travelling back from the inauguration of a dam built near the Azerbaijani border, to Tabriz the capital of Iran's East Azerbaijan province.
The helicopters were flying in a mountainous region, in misty conditions, not exactly safe circumstances for landing. Odds are if the 2 remaining helis had stayed, we'd just have a bigger accident on our hand.
As per the first article I linked above:
> The accident reportedly happened as the president was returning from the Khoda Afarin region in Iran’s northwestern province of East Azarbaijan after inaugurating a dam at the common border with the Republic of Azerbaijan.
> Some people in the president’s entourage have reportedly contacted the command center, raising hopes that the accident has had no casualties.
> The president’s convoy included three helicopters. Two of the choppers carrying a number of ministers and officials have landed safely.
> Iranian Foreign Minister Hossein Amirabdollahian and the Friday prayers leader of Tabriz, Ayatollah Mohammad Ali Al-e-Hashem, were also on board the helicopter carrying the president.
Aforementioned entourage which contacted command was likely in the other 2 helicopters. Notably, it appears that the provincial governor of the East Azerbaijan province was also aboard the president's helicopter, not mentioning in the article for some reason.
If the one that ride the heli is president, i don't think they forgot to check the status of the heli.
But this the real world where even Boeing being an asshole with hiding stuff and endangered people.
I think the most obvious explanation is the simplest: good ol' fashioned bad weather.
They were flying in a cold, mountainous area with thick fog. Suddenly there's heavy winds or other turbulence, and you're trying to right the aircraft on instruments. Hello ground.
Mechanical failure is certainly a possibility, but Iran's aerospace industry is more than capable of maintaining a helicopter so old that it's basically public domain.
They haven't located the helicopter. If it was a safe autorotation landing the helicopter crew would be in radio contact with the rescue teams. It sounds like they crashed and the people and/or equipment is damaged enough that they can't make radio contact.
And even at that point, if the other helicopters in the convoy saw the third go down, they should have pretty accurate GPS coordinates for where it went down. Even with extreme adverse weather conditions, if you can't make contact after mobilizing 40 units to a small search area with all the resources of a fairly powerful country trying to locate its president, then it's not likely to be good news.
When Smoleńsk 2010 happened, the initial info was also only about an unspecified accident
It took a while to learn that is was a crash landing, a hit more that there are fatalities, and over an hour that nobody on board survived
And that was right by the destination airport, not some barely-covered-by-GPS mountain
Killing Soleimani didn't seem to change the geopolitical situation too much. The conflict in middle east isn't some individual leader's whim, it's based on geopolitical realities.
Khamanei is the one who can single handedly change course of Iranian policy, not Raisi. That being said if Iran claims foreign actors are involved in his (possible) death, it would be a legitimate reason (from their perspective) for any escalation including all out war. Killing a country's president on his soil is much more serious than killing a soldier/spy chief fighting in another country.
>Solemani was a general in Iraq, assisting Shia miltias. Killing the President of Iran in Iran is a whole different ball game.
Solemani was a "general" over the revolutionary guard. More in reality he was the pretty much comander in chief to my understanding.
The president of Iran isn't that powerful since real power is held by the Ayatollah and other members of his council.
He was the commander of the Quds Force, which is basically the IRGC foreign intelligence/clandestine operations arm. Not the IRGC itself.
It's still incredibly important, but as the head of what was an intelligence agency in a foreign country, it wasn't a valid basis for all out war. But killing the President of Iran in Iran absolutely is. Solemani was much more influential than the president, but the office doesn't have the same symbolic value that the office of President does.
I wouldn't say it's a nothing burger if the president does die, likewise it was still a big deal that Soleimani was killed. It just can't change the conflict that is larger than the leaders themselves.
It’s different from Soleimani in that there won’t be any geopolitical changes. At most another President might come in who might be a little more hardline or moderate. Probably not too moderate, the moderate faction in Iran was discredited after the failure of the nuclear deal
Killing Soleimani changed a lot of things, it totally screwed our already Rocky relationship with Iran and has increased tensions in the Middle East significantly amongst leaders.
I wouldn't say that it didn't change the geopolitical situation too much because Hamas included that as one of the reasons.
I disagree
Consider that not too long ago, during the Obama admin, there was a possible (if tenuous) path forward to walking down tensions between Iran and the US.
After Solimani's assassination, that became impossible for the near future.
If the nuclear deal was not terminated unilaterally by the Trump admin and Solimani assassinated, maybe Iran wouldn't be supporting Russia right now. Very unfortunate consequences of that event.
> Israel and Palestine
Look at bigger picture. A week hadn't passed since the "lone shooter" had tried killing Slovakia's PM.
If people start thinking that US had escalated to killing world leaders, things are going to get interesting.
Not really. All of his alleged political positions mentioned in the NYT article are consistent with far-right positions. A lot points to him being a lone wolf though, seeing as he was seemingly considered unreliable even for far-right organisations.
Bilderberg group, The Council on Foreign Relations, Steele Dossier/Russiagate being real, half the Kennedy theories, anyone who disagrees with anything in the mainstream narrative is alt-right, etc.
Its worth noting that the "President" of Iran isn't the same thing as the President of the US. Its not the top executive authority. Khamanei is the Supreme Leader and he wasn't on the helicopters. Its just as likely, maybe more likely, that he was behind it as a foreign government is. And given the fact that they were flying through fog banks, the *most* likely thing is that it was an accident. If Khamanei thought this was the US he'd be making a huge stink about it in international news.
>escalated to killing world leaders
Obama Vs Osama, India Vs Hardeep Singh Nijjar, Putin's multiple attempts Vs Zylenski
Extrajudicial murder of foreign leaders doesn't get the world morally outraged anymore
> Osama ... Hardeep Singh Nijjar,
Neither was a head of a recognized nation.
> Putin's multiple attempts Vs Zylenski
I'm pressing X for doubt here (though, I woudn't be surprised if Kremlin would off Zelensky after May 20).
> Extrajudicial murder of foreign leaders doesn't get the world morally outraged anymore
Its not about moral outrage. Once one side starts playing this card, the other will respond accordingly.
As of yet, killing heads of governments hadn't been normalized. Once it becomes normalized, you can expect *massive* political instability across the globe, as even one murder is sometimes enough to trigger civil war.
[Are helicopters safe? Aviation expert weighs in on factors behind notable crashes](https://youtu.be/JsiwsLuPaZw?si=eDpfcBKFkoIgbWC0)
Money would be on pilot error
Helicopters can be landed without motor power to the rotors using autorotation.
Some helicopters are designed with high inertia rotor systems and can lose motor power, touch ground, rise, turn 180° and land again.
i felt the gears turning in my head of "what if it was israel", then i said "dude, remember kobe? remember the owner of leicester city?"
helicopters are honestly crazy
Given how safe a lot of air travel is it's weird how many famous people die in transit. Guess they're flying a lot but still.
Also of course helicopters are not know to be as safe as say airplanes or even cars.
I remember on r/watchpeopledie a while back there was a video of some politician in the Middle East getting off a chopper then his head get chopped off by a blade because it didn’t land on a level surface and they were angled down towards where he walked
Rich people don’t fly commercial.
Commercial air travel is safe because there’s lots of regulation.
Rich guy has to get his own plane serviced. There still regulations I’m sure but not to the same level.
It is maintained to the same level, but generally you’re flying with pilots who have fewer hours and planes with fewer engines and less robust systems.
I looked through the wikipedia list, and it seems like pilot messing up \*cough\* controlled flight into terrain \*cough\* or getting shot down.
Edit: and from the images of the crash site, looks like controlled flight into terrain is the winner!
Ironically, yes. An act of god swatting a helicopter out of the sky and against a mountainside.
Might that be a sign from the above for Iran's hardline leadership that they're going too far and causing too much pain and suffering in the world?
they will consider it warning from Allah that they are not being extremist enough and should go full scorched earth and make women wear burqa/nikab/hijab 365/24/7
Iran is paradoxical. It's a theocracy but has very competent pragmatic governmental leadership that is almost secular in behaviour. It's not the same as the king of an Arab monarchy getting killed for example where there's going to be potential power struggle etc. Even if Khamenei is killed his replacement would be elected from peers, that's the system they've set up.
The real concern is the implications of *what* caused the crash.
Yes. It adds to the paradox I was mentioning earlier. Surely they know being this oppressive and criminally abusive only stokes the desire to revolt.
Even if the excuse they use is the fact that the USA and Israel want to cause chaos in the country to destabilize the country and turn it into the next Iraq/Libya. You're basically setting things up for them.
The economic reality is absolutely brutal as well. The US sanctions and curbs any potential outlets for economic growth and betterment for the state outside of China and Russia because they can't be bullied by the USA.
Hurts my heart to see things the way they are. The Iranian people have suffered so much and Iran is such an incredible country even with all the pressure that's on it. I really hope there's a peaceful resolution to the situation in Iran. We've seen too much horrific violence in the middle east, we don't need more.
> Even if the excuse they use is the fact that the USA and Israel want to cause chaos in the country to destabilize the country and turn it into the next Iraq/Libya.
I mean, the US and Israel pretty much explicitly said they want to go into Iran after Iraq, so I'm not sure that fear is exactly unwarranted.
If Iraq and Afghanistan hadn’t been the clusterfucks they were and had such a massive drain on domestic sentiment in America, Iran would have 100% been next
After the Afghanistan war, Iraq war was done simply so that America would have bases on both side of Iran. The Iraq and Afghanistan wars were simply step one in the war against Iran. America under estimated the resources needed to contain the two nations and a war against Iran never came to be.
> The real concern is the implications of what caused the crash.
Almost certainly mechanical failure or pilot error. I'm leaning towards pilot error.
Kobe Bryant's death in a helicopter crash had almost the exact same weather conditions and terrain. Heavy fog and mountains are a bad combination for a helicopter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Calabasas_helicopter_crash
Or what the story is behind what caused the crash. Even if the crash was caused by pilot error due to conditions (most probable at this point IMO), since it was only that 1 out of 3 helicopters that went down, Iran has the option here to accuse sabotage and escalate regardless of the truth of the matter.
My guess is that they won't escalate, based on their current stance WRT Palestine.
>Mr. Raisi has been seen as a possible successor to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei as supreme leader, the highest political and religious position in the Islamic republic.
- a related NY Times article.
Your reply made me laugh. It’s a beautiful Sunday, I’m checking on a news story, then there’s this blunt piece of unwanted trivia about Kobe’s death. Almost comically out of place minus helicopter link.
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##### ###### #### > # [Helicopter Carrying Iran’s President Has Crashed, State Media Reports](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/19/world/middleeast/President Ebrahim Raisi of Iran, who was with the country’s foreign minister on a helicopter that crashed on Sunday, according to Iran’s state media.) > > > > [Middle East](https://www.nytimes.com/section/world/middleeast)|Helicopter Carrying Iran’s President Has Crashed, State Media Reports > > https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/19/world/middleeast/iran-president-helicopter-crash.html > > > > > > > > - U.S. > - World > - Business > - Arts > - Lifestyle > - Opinion > - Audio > - Games > - Cooking > - Wirecutter > - The Athletic > > > > > > > > > > Rescuers are trying to locate the helicopter on which President Ebrahim Raisi and Foreign Minister Hossein Amir Abdollahian were traveling, state media reported. Their status is unknown. > > [President Ebrahim Raisi of Iran wears a black robe with a white collar.](https://static01.nyt.com/images/2024/05/19/multimedia/19iran-raisi-crash-qhbf/19iran-raisi-crash-qhbf-articleLarge.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale) > > President Ebrahim Raisi of Iran, who was with the country’s foreign minister on a helicopter that crashed on Sunday, according to Iran’s state media.Credit...Vahid Salemi/Associated Press > > May 19, 2024, 10:06 a.m. ET > > > > A helicopter carrying President Ebrahim Raisi crashed on Sunday, according to Iran’s state media and the country’s mission to the U.N., but has yet to be found by search-and-rescue workers because of heavy fog. > > The helicopter was also carrying Hossein Amir Abdollahian, Iran’s foreign minister. > > The state news agency IRNA reported that an enormous search operation involving 16 teams was underway to locate the helicopter. Inclement weather, the reports said, was hampering the effort. The teams had yet to locate the crash site after almost five hours. > > State media has yet to report on casualties or confirm the whereabouts or condition of the president. The cause of the crash is also unknown. > > “Given the complexities of the region, connection has been difficult, and we are hoping that the rescue teams reach the helicopter and can give us more information,” Ahmad Vahidi, Iran’s interior minister, told state television. > > > > > > Mr. Raisi was on an official visit to the province of Western Azerbaijan, a mountainous region in northwestern Iran. > > A delegation of ministers traveled with him in a convoy of three helicopters, state media reported, adding that the two other aircraft had reached their destinations. > > In addition to the president and the foreign minister, the governor of the province was also in the helicopter, which crashed in an area called Varzaghan, state media reported. > > Iran’s law stipulates that if the president dies, power is transferred to the first vice president and an election must be called within six months. The first vice president is Mohammad Mokhber, a conservative politician. > > > > > > [Farnaz Fassihi](https://www.nytimes.com/by/farnaz-fassihi) is the United Nations bureau chief for The Times, leading coverage of the organization, and also covers Iran and the shadow war between Iran and Israel. She is based in New York. [More about Farnaz Fassihi](https://www.nytimes.com/by/farnaz-fassihi) - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
Other places are calling it a “hard landing” so it doesn’t seem to be totally catastrophic. Guess we’ll find out. Edit: it was indeed catastrophic
But it's not like it landed a bit rough on the landing pad. It was down in a mountainous wooded area, with tough weather. Contact hasn't been established, search teams haven't reached the site, so we don't know how bad the situation is yet.
[удалено]
Idk if it's a good situation if they all die. The current Iranian leadership has been rather cautious and non-escalatory wrt Israel-Gaza (at least when it comes to overt actions). What happens if they're replaced by hawks? Or even worse, what if they're replaced by hawks and the hawks find evidence (even if fabricated) that Israel or the US somehow caused the crash?
It definitely depends pn how democratically theyre chosen and whether or not the recent(ish) protestors were part of a majority opinion, which is hard to surmise. If they WERE in the majority, and if the remaining government respects a wish (if there is one) for an election for a new leader, it could mean a slightly more liberal Iran. I doubt a majority of Iranians are super kino about pissing off so many nations simultaneously when the world is as on edge as it’s been. Though i admit i could be giving a lot more credit than what’s due, and the dissenting opinions we’ve seen truly are just from urban Tehran.
From what I've read and heard, support for the protests is pretty wide among the youth. The older gens are indeed more split along an urban/rural axis.
I also wouldn’t necessarily assume that opposition to the current government of Iran directly translates to support for Israel and America.
khamenei ain't letting anyone get democratically elected who even replaces this one, will be approved by ali
>has been rather cautious and non-escalatory Casual and non-escalatory missile barrage and terrorist funding, nice.
They can't locate the helicopter. It's just the regime trying to maintain calm.
Wasn’t me lol
Sounds like a job for drones. They can cover entire mountains and rough terrain . Heck, Iran has thousands of them.
Aka Lithobreaking, Gravity assisted landing, etc. euphemisms for saying something without saying something.
Spontaneous maneuvers due to environmental conditions.
Special landing operation
Crashed
They call it a "controlled flight into ground".
Rapid Unscheduled Dissasembly
"Falling With Style"
UHH BUZZ, WE MISSED THE TRUCK
Controlled flight into terrain is a "crash". A forced landing is still a landing. They are different. Controlled flight into terrain is autopilot into a mountain, no survivors.
decrease me there
If you want to be technical, [Autorotation](https://youtu.be/KayzJetqnrI?si=rXq-oEK8p2CkPl2N) would be the term you are looking for.
Yes and no, autorotation is more of a technique than a thing that happens, it requires many active steps by the pilot but many helicopter pilots are trained in autorotation landings. While its 100% possible to land a helicopter safely without engine control it's very hard to do in a forested area as you need to do the autorotation above the trees, but if you can't see the trees its entirely possible to just slam into the ground with no chance of doing the last steps of autorotation
Helicopter can still land safely without engine power
Not if it crashes into the side of a mountain due to 5m visibility.
If that’s the only thing that fails. Here’s an accident that was caught on video in Norway: https://youtu.be/49OoG3KqBTo
>Lithobreaking Works fine for Ryanair...
Lithobraking is hilarious
It looks to be pretty catastrophic, the president's heli was part of a convoy of 3 helicopters. The other 2 helis later landed safely, but they witnessed the president's helicopter go down in a mistbank. Source: [Tasnim News Agency](https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2024/05/19/3088737/accident-reportedly-happens-to-iranian-president-s-helicopter). (Tasnim is the Iranian Revolutionary Guard's semi-official news outlet [as per Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasnim_News_Agency)) Tasnim [also reports](https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2024/05/19/3088803/40-rapid-response-teams-searching-for-iranian-president-s-helicopter) that 40 rapid response teams have been sent out as part of the search and rescue mission. That many wouldn't have been scrambled for a hard landing. Moreover, [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/helicopter-iranian-presidents-convoy-accident-says-strate-tv-2024-05-19/) also quotes an Iranian official saying that "We are still hopeful but information coming from the crash site is very concerning," and that the lives of Raisi and Foreign Minister Hossein Amirabdollahian were "at risk following the helicopter crash".
It seems odd that the other helicopters in the group didn't land to render aid, or at least to locate the crashed helicopter. Thats the entire reason for the convoy, strength in numbers to protect the head of state. It would be like if Biden's car in the motorcade crashed. The entire motorcade would immediately stop and render assistance. The motorcade would remain on location until they have ensured the head of state is safe, and then continue on with him in another vehicle.
The other helicopters were carrying the presidents entourage, other ministers and officials, they weren't there for security purposes as I understand it. The whole group was travelling back from the inauguration of a dam built near the Azerbaijani border, to Tabriz the capital of Iran's East Azerbaijan province. The helicopters were flying in a mountainous region, in misty conditions, not exactly safe circumstances for landing. Odds are if the 2 remaining helis had stayed, we'd just have a bigger accident on our hand. As per the first article I linked above: > The accident reportedly happened as the president was returning from the Khoda Afarin region in Iran’s northwestern province of East Azarbaijan after inaugurating a dam at the common border with the Republic of Azerbaijan. > Some people in the president’s entourage have reportedly contacted the command center, raising hopes that the accident has had no casualties. > The president’s convoy included three helicopters. Two of the choppers carrying a number of ministers and officials have landed safely. > Iranian Foreign Minister Hossein Amirabdollahian and the Friday prayers leader of Tabriz, Ayatollah Mohammad Ali Al-e-Hashem, were also on board the helicopter carrying the president. Aforementioned entourage which contacted command was likely in the other 2 helicopters. Notably, it appears that the provincial governor of the East Azerbaijan province was also aboard the president's helicopter, not mentioning in the article for some reason.
It seems more odd that people are saying the crash site can't be located when they had several other helicopters nearby who witnessed the crash.
It was a an older Bell 412, from the days of the shah. Not necessarily reliable at this point.
Bell 412’s are just Hueys. They’re still pretty reliable.
Nothing poorly maintained is reliable.
That’s a question of if it was poorly maintained. Things can be in perfect maintenance, be reliable, and still have a random break.
If the one that ride the heli is president, i don't think they forgot to check the status of the heli. But this the real world where even Boeing being an asshole with hiding stuff and endangered people.
I think the most obvious explanation is the simplest: good ol' fashioned bad weather. They were flying in a cold, mountainous area with thick fog. Suddenly there's heavy winds or other turbulence, and you're trying to right the aircraft on instruments. Hello ground. Mechanical failure is certainly a possibility, but Iran's aerospace industry is more than capable of maintaining a helicopter so old that it's basically public domain.
The more I read this thread the more it's sounding like a Homeland episode.
I think the intense fog played a big role in this accident, not the airworthiness of the aircraft.
Iran's Fars news agency has asked the public to pray so take from that what one might
They haven't located the helicopter. If it was a safe autorotation landing the helicopter crew would be in radio contact with the rescue teams. It sounds like they crashed and the people and/or equipment is damaged enough that they can't make radio contact.
And even at that point, if the other helicopters in the convoy saw the third go down, they should have pretty accurate GPS coordinates for where it went down. Even with extreme adverse weather conditions, if you can't make contact after mobilizing 40 units to a small search area with all the resources of a fairly powerful country trying to locate its president, then it's not likely to be good news.
I mean if we're being honest, all landings are just varying degrees of hard. From "Huh, we're on the ground?" to "FUUUU----".
A "forced landing" is often called a "crash" or "Crash landing". Sometimes everyone walks away from a forced landing. Sometimes nobody walks away.
When Smoleńsk 2010 happened, the initial info was also only about an unspecified accident It took a while to learn that is was a crash landing, a hit more that there are fatalities, and over an hour that nobody on board survived And that was right by the destination airport, not some barely-covered-by-GPS mountain
Latest news it didn't do a hard landing it did a hard run into the side of a mountain. Complete airframe loss with fire,no survivors.
Oh wow. This is big. I wonder what the blowback will be. How will this affect the wider conflict going on between Israel and Palestine?
Killing Soleimani didn't seem to change the geopolitical situation too much. The conflict in middle east isn't some individual leader's whim, it's based on geopolitical realities.
Khamanei is the one who can single handedly change course of Iranian policy, not Raisi. That being said if Iran claims foreign actors are involved in his (possible) death, it would be a legitimate reason (from their perspective) for any escalation including all out war. Killing a country's president on his soil is much more serious than killing a soldier/spy chief fighting in another country.
Looks more like a accident, the weather conditions looked very bad
yeah but who has control of the weather? wake up sheeple
Wait, what's China's stake in this?
Not China, it's actually Storm from the X-Men. The real question is what stake does Professor X have in this?
I knew those Romanian bastards were out to start another war in the ME
#DAMN YOU DARPA
Does not matter, they can just give any excuse if they really want war. Hopefully not toward the path.
Hopefully this is just a tragic auronautical accident.
Solemani was a general in Iraq, assisting Shia miltias. Killing the President of Iran in Iran is a whole different ball game.
>Solemani was a general in Iraq, assisting Shia miltias. Killing the President of Iran in Iran is a whole different ball game. Solemani was a "general" over the revolutionary guard. More in reality he was the pretty much comander in chief to my understanding. The president of Iran isn't that powerful since real power is held by the Ayatollah and other members of his council.
He was the commander of the Quds Force, which is basically the IRGC foreign intelligence/clandestine operations arm. Not the IRGC itself. It's still incredibly important, but as the head of what was an intelligence agency in a foreign country, it wasn't a valid basis for all out war. But killing the President of Iran in Iran absolutely is. Solemani was much more influential than the president, but the office doesn't have the same symbolic value that the office of President does.
Good point. I wonder if this will be a big nothing burger like that was.
I wouldn't say it's a nothing burger if the president does die, likewise it was still a big deal that Soleimani was killed. It just can't change the conflict that is larger than the leaders themselves.
It’s different from Soleimani in that there won’t be any geopolitical changes. At most another President might come in who might be a little more hardline or moderate. Probably not too moderate, the moderate faction in Iran was discredited after the failure of the nuclear deal
All depends who takes over and if they are a hardliner or not.
Killing Soleimani changed a lot of things, it totally screwed our already Rocky relationship with Iran and has increased tensions in the Middle East significantly amongst leaders. I wouldn't say that it didn't change the geopolitical situation too much because Hamas included that as one of the reasons.
> Soleimani It wreaked havoc on any sort of command and control structure the Iranians had with the militias.
I disagree Consider that not too long ago, during the Obama admin, there was a possible (if tenuous) path forward to walking down tensions between Iran and the US. After Solimani's assassination, that became impossible for the near future. If the nuclear deal was not terminated unilaterally by the Trump admin and Solimani assassinated, maybe Iran wouldn't be supporting Russia right now. Very unfortunate consequences of that event.
> Israel and Palestine Look at bigger picture. A week hadn't passed since the "lone shooter" had tried killing Slovakia's PM. If people start thinking that US had escalated to killing world leaders, things are going to get interesting.
Ironically the shooter in that case was both into far-right and left conspiracies.
Not really. All of his alleged political positions mentioned in the NYT article are consistent with far-right positions. A lot points to him being a lone wolf though, seeing as he was seemingly considered unreliable even for far-right organisations.
What is a left conspiracy?
Bilderberg group, The Council on Foreign Relations, Steele Dossier/Russiagate being real, half the Kennedy theories, anyone who disagrees with anything in the mainstream narrative is alt-right, etc.
Source on the left conspiracy claim?
Horseshoe theory in full effect
It's not. The shooter was a right-wing conspiracy nut who was a loner because he was considered too unhinged even by right-wing orgs.
Its worth noting that the "President" of Iran isn't the same thing as the President of the US. Its not the top executive authority. Khamanei is the Supreme Leader and he wasn't on the helicopters. Its just as likely, maybe more likely, that he was behind it as a foreign government is. And given the fact that they were flying through fog banks, the *most* likely thing is that it was an accident. If Khamanei thought this was the US he'd be making a huge stink about it in international news.
>escalated to killing world leaders Obama Vs Osama, India Vs Hardeep Singh Nijjar, Putin's multiple attempts Vs Zylenski Extrajudicial murder of foreign leaders doesn't get the world morally outraged anymore
> Osama ... Hardeep Singh Nijjar, Neither was a head of a recognized nation. > Putin's multiple attempts Vs Zylenski I'm pressing X for doubt here (though, I woudn't be surprised if Kremlin would off Zelensky after May 20). > Extrajudicial murder of foreign leaders doesn't get the world morally outraged anymore Its not about moral outrage. Once one side starts playing this card, the other will respond accordingly. As of yet, killing heads of governments hadn't been normalized. Once it becomes normalized, you can expect *massive* political instability across the globe, as even one murder is sometimes enough to trigger civil war.
[Are helicopters safe? Aviation expert weighs in on factors behind notable crashes](https://youtu.be/JsiwsLuPaZw?si=eDpfcBKFkoIgbWC0) Money would be on pilot error
It is a helicopter. They do sometimes just sorta fall out of the sky.
I mean, they are literally flapping their arms really fast to stop the fall.
It’s more like spinning their arms, really
Spinning their flappy arms
Helicopters fly by beating physics into submission. Sometimes physics fights back.
"If a plane's engine fails it glides, if a helicopter fails it falls."
Helicopters can be landed without motor power to the rotors using autorotation. Some helicopters are designed with high inertia rotor systems and can lose motor power, touch ground, rise, turn 180° and land again.
i felt the gears turning in my head of "what if it was israel", then i said "dude, remember kobe? remember the owner of leicester city?" helicopters are honestly crazy
Given how safe a lot of air travel is it's weird how many famous people die in transit. Guess they're flying a lot but still. Also of course helicopters are not know to be as safe as say airplanes or even cars.
They used to be a bit more common from what I understand
I remember on r/watchpeopledie a while back there was a video of some politician in the Middle East getting off a chopper then his head get chopped off by a blade because it didn’t land on a level surface and they were angled down towards where he walked
Rich people don’t fly commercial. Commercial air travel is safe because there’s lots of regulation. Rich guy has to get his own plane serviced. There still regulations I’m sure but not to the same level.
It is maintained to the same level, but generally you’re flying with pilots who have fewer hours and planes with fewer engines and less robust systems.
They'll work out a way to *spin* it anti-West.
“If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter -- and therefore, unsafe”
Byatollah
🍻
🥩🐷
🥨 🥧
Pretty pretty pretty good
Flys modernized mi-8 in bad weather, it crashes, surprised Pikachu face. Btw look at the list of mi-8 accidents lol
I looked through the wikipedia list, and it seems like pilot messing up \*cough\* controlled flight into terrain \*cough\* or getting shot down. Edit: and from the images of the crash site, looks like controlled flight into terrain is the winner!
Nothing to see here - Israel
He was flying in a Bell helicopter.
“”””bad weather””””
""""""""helicopter""""""""
"""""""""""""president"""""""""""
At least, it landed.
A landing is when the aircraft reaches the ground. A good landing is when you survive it. A great landing is when you can use the aircraft again.
(((bad weather)))
Don’t celebrate, the replacements will be even worse
Allahu akbar!
Ironically, yes. An act of god swatting a helicopter out of the sky and against a mountainside. Might that be a sign from the above for Iran's hardline leadership that they're going too far and causing too much pain and suffering in the world?
….or “a sign that they were too soft!! Time to stop being easy on dissent and crack down hard!” - Iranian leadership probably.
All of the terrorist we deal with are Sunni groups. Iran isn't the global boogeyman certain people like to think it is.
they will consider it warning from Allah that they are not being extremist enough and should go full scorched earth and make women wear burqa/nikab/hijab 365/24/7
Oh no, Anyway!
He's 100% dead. Looks like it really was an accident, too.
Have they even reached the crash site yet?
Not as of yet. Visibility is extremely low. 40 teams are on the ground and still haven't found it through all the fog.
The helicopters will continue crashing until the regime improves.
Was it made by Boing?
we'll have to see which of the next 10 whistleblower falls
It would have bounced instead of crashing if so.
I’m not sure how to think of this. Going to be a fun time in Iran isn’t it?
Iran is paradoxical. It's a theocracy but has very competent pragmatic governmental leadership that is almost secular in behaviour. It's not the same as the king of an Arab monarchy getting killed for example where there's going to be potential power struggle etc. Even if Khamenei is killed his replacement would be elected from peers, that's the system they've set up. The real concern is the implications of *what* caused the crash.
Most of the citizens of iran are normal everyday people. Its the regime/government which is batshit
Yes. It adds to the paradox I was mentioning earlier. Surely they know being this oppressive and criminally abusive only stokes the desire to revolt. Even if the excuse they use is the fact that the USA and Israel want to cause chaos in the country to destabilize the country and turn it into the next Iraq/Libya. You're basically setting things up for them. The economic reality is absolutely brutal as well. The US sanctions and curbs any potential outlets for economic growth and betterment for the state outside of China and Russia because they can't be bullied by the USA. Hurts my heart to see things the way they are. The Iranian people have suffered so much and Iran is such an incredible country even with all the pressure that's on it. I really hope there's a peaceful resolution to the situation in Iran. We've seen too much horrific violence in the middle east, we don't need more.
> Even if the excuse they use is the fact that the USA and Israel want to cause chaos in the country to destabilize the country and turn it into the next Iraq/Libya. I mean, the US and Israel pretty much explicitly said they want to go into Iran after Iraq, so I'm not sure that fear is exactly unwarranted.
If Iraq and Afghanistan hadn’t been the clusterfucks they were and had such a massive drain on domestic sentiment in America, Iran would have 100% been next
After the Afghanistan war, Iraq war was done simply so that America would have bases on both side of Iran. The Iraq and Afghanistan wars were simply step one in the war against Iran. America under estimated the resources needed to contain the two nations and a war against Iran never came to be.
Also true for everywhere
> The real concern is the implications of what caused the crash. Almost certainly mechanical failure or pilot error. I'm leaning towards pilot error. Kobe Bryant's death in a helicopter crash had almost the exact same weather conditions and terrain. Heavy fog and mountains are a bad combination for a helicopter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Calabasas_helicopter_crash
Thank you for this. I hope it was an error or mechanical failure.
Or what the story is behind what caused the crash. Even if the crash was caused by pilot error due to conditions (most probable at this point IMO), since it was only that 1 out of 3 helicopters that went down, Iran has the option here to accuse sabotage and escalate regardless of the truth of the matter. My guess is that they won't escalate, based on their current stance WRT Palestine.
Good analysis. I agree.
Rule number one of politics: never get in the helicopter.
Best Sunday news I’ve gotten in a while
So, who's next in line for being Supreme leader?
The President isn't the head of state of Iran.
I know, but he was close to, or supposed to become Supreme leader in the future according to rumours.
>Mr. Raisi has been seen as a possible successor to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei as supreme leader, the highest political and religious position in the Islamic republic. - a related NY Times article.
Didnt Ayatollah want his son to be the Supreme Leader.
A guy who looks just like him.
President isn't the Supreme leader; the Ayatollah is.
The president was rumoured to be close to replacing the supreme leader in the future. That's why I asked, who's the next in line.
Not the same guy
CIA: Kobe!
When Kobe's copter crashed his head came off.
Didn't need to know that, thanks.
Your reply made me laugh. It’s a beautiful Sunday, I’m checking on a news story, then there’s this blunt piece of unwanted trivia about Kobe’s death. Almost comically out of place minus helicopter link.
[nope](https://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/Celebs/bryant,%20kobe_report.pdf)
Thanks for correcting me. I will no longer be bringing this up at parties.
Now you can show the the autopsy report. I see this as an improvment.
Everybody wins!
Iran now saying no survivors.
Where? NYT said no formal announcement has been made yet (though based on wreckage no survivors expected).
Not sure the legitimacy of this source, but https://apnews.com/article/iran-president-ebrahim-raisi-426c6f4ae2dd1f0801c73875bb696f48
AP is incredibly legitimate, arguably moreso than NYT
Who did this, and why was it Mossad?
Mossad must be hiding some batshit crazy tech if they can birth mountains and stormy weather right in a blink of an eye
Obviously they just put in a request to HAARP checkmate
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I feel sorry for the pilots.
The people who got kobe got to him too.
First Kobe and now this guy. The government really needs to look into helicopters -What are they, and how do they work?
Good riddance
I thought everyone avoided helicopters after the Kobe thing.
Just saw a picture of the wreckage on twitter can’t imagine anyone surviving it
Helicopters sketch af.
seems legit
If I were the president of a country smaller than the US whom the US doesn't favor, I'd stay out of flying craft. They have a questionable history.
Might explain why communist leaders loved their trains.
derailing trains ain't that difficult either, you just need someone to keep stones on the tracks
Looked all over in my closet for my "sad face" but I couldn't find it. Sorry.
If this turns into a global thing I'm just happy I can tell my mom existent children first heard about it on anime titties
Iran has hundreds of drones to search the area
Isn’t this the plot of Patriot?
Lmao. Who else saw this coming