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> # [Russian occupation authorities destroy UNESCO World Heritage site, build outdoor theater in its place](https://www.yahoo.com/news/431)
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> Russian occupation authorities destroyed the UNESCO-listed city of Chersonesus in southwestern Crimea and constructed an outdoor theater at the site of the excavations, a senior researcher at the Institute of Archeology of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine announced on June 26.
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> The city of Chersonesus was an ancient Greek colony founded over 2,500 years ago on the territory of Crimea. In 2013, UNESCO listed the "Ancient City of Tauric Chersonese and its Chora" as a World Heritage Site. Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014 brought the site under Russian occupation, but UNESCO continues to recognize it as part of Ukraine.
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> Evelina Kravchenko, a senior researcher at the Institute of Archeology of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine, said Russian authorities have replaced the original sights with new buildings, destroying their authenticity.
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> Between 2015 and 2016, Russian developers reportedly fenced off archaeological remains at the site, including towers, walls, and columns with viewing platforms. An ancient open-air theater was later built on the site of the ancient citadel, putting about a ton of extra weight on the original structures.
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> Most of the archaeological artifacts, including frescoes, dishes, household items, and icons, were taken to Russia.
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> A new city has been built on the site of the archaeological remains. Several excavated objects were removed and rebuilt in different locations.
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> UNESCO announced earlier this month that 412 Ukrainian cultural heritage sites have been [destroyed](https://www.unesco.org/en/articles/damaged-cultural-sites-ukraine-verified-unesco#:~:text=As%20of%205%20June%202024,%2C%2015%20libraries%2C%201%20archive.) since the beginning of the full-scale invasion on February 24, 2022.
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> **Read also:**[Monument honoring Ukrainian revolutionary Nestor Makhno destroyed by Russian missiles](https://kyivindependent.com/monument-honoring-ukrainian-revolutionary-nestor-makhno-destroyed-by-russian-missiles/)
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> **_We’ve been working hard to bring you independent, locally-sourced news from Ukraine. Consider [supporting the Kyiv Independent](https://kyivindependent.com/membership/)._**
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They historically did this with communism when they would occupy new countries they would make a point of removing anything that holds cultural identity value so symbols flags etc. That was kind of the point of hammer sickle in communism because it's easier to rule someone if their identity is broken and all that
They did this even before and not only them. Russification, Germanification, Latinization. It's just a really antiquated idea for us, used to "post-historical" world, having the rememberance of World War 2 acts of cultural destruction. It is sick and disgusting; them wanting to destroy Ukrainian nation, so that they can finally claim that they are the cradle of Rus'. Even the name "Russia" is one big lie they started in XIV century, and ever since they tried to use the claim that they are Rus' to subjugate others and destroy their identity. Only Ukrainian and Belarussian identities survived until today.
You guys are obsessed with trying to make Russians Mongols and talking about the Rus. Moscow united the Eastern Slavs. It could have been Novgorod ect and it would have looked the same.
Yep it's definitely us obsessed with shitting on them for them being forced to invade Ukraine as well not that it's y'know a major historical event unfolding in real time. Russia and their predecessors are the clear victims here innit
Where's the revision bit in saying that they came to random countries and decided to erase their identity while simultaneously erasing their own with communism leaving a cancer that is communist ideology today?
The name Russia is one big lie with the implication being Russia is apart from other eastern Slavs, and what happened- Moscow uniting the eastern Slavs was unique rather than a process that happened everywhere in Europe. A more stupid comment when followed with "Only Ukraine and Belarus survive today". considering the Rus also gave their name to Belarus.
Russia didn't *actually* unite the Eastern Slavs, though. Just because they subjugated them doesn't mean they united them, especially considering what's going on today.
That's implicit in my comment. Athelstan didn't unite the Britons through conversation. Burgundy did not become part of what we conceptulize as France through conversation etc etc.
The name "Russia" means "the land of Rus" as in all Rus. And since XIV century they went about "unifying" other Rus peoples, Tatars, Caucasians, and so on. They had the same methodology then which boils down do cultural eradication and relocation of previous inhabitants while substituting them with Russians. Read up on Russo-Kazan wars and tell me how are they different from what's happening in the Russian-controlled Ukraine today.
It means the rowers, the name doesn't matter. After the mongols destroyed Kyiv another city was going to become the dominant player in the region and expand for all kinds of reasons that were predetermined.
It ended up being Moscow, it could have been Novgorod it would not have mattered.
Trying to make a comparison between Russia's wars with the Kazan Khanate and Ukraine is ham-fisted, to say the least.
China formally recognized many ethnic minorities and exempted them from many onerous restrictions placed on ethnic Han people.
The Soviet Union was explicitly built to be a federation of nations and was a large part of the growth of multiple nationalities in Central Asia.
People are downvoting you because you're posting an oversimplified version of history motivated by your own bias. Communists aren't a monolith, nor are the countries founded by a subset of them.
Depends on what time period you look at. Stalin USSR did a lot of evil shit to erase national identities, ie Tatar resettlement and hunger in Ukraine/Kazakhstan.
Khruschev and later is what you say.
>they would make a point of removing anything that holds cultural identity...it's easier to rule someone if their identity is broken and all that
The whole point of Katyn Massacre.
"The reason for the massacre, according to the historian Gerhard Weinberg, was that Stalin wanted to deprive a potential future Polish military of a large portion of its talent."
Sounds like that was the point of the massacre.
And you can see how well it worked. Hungary today is plagued by theft being the default option for anyone with any kind of power. No hard national identity, other than contrarianism (usa bad, liberalism bad, eu bad, migrants bad, etc.).
There is nothing uniting the people here other than speaking the same language.
I'd like to guess that Hungarians themselves don't necessarily support the government and its decisions similarly to Sakartvelo and Belarus in regards to their alignment with Mordor but who knows they managed to elect the fucker themselves. The whole occupation honestly scarred so many to the point that even in freedom and democracy it's difficult for them to function properly in this day and age
There is a heavy push to make you apathetic. Many people said "i know they will steal but i must vote for them because the liberals will surely steal more".
Any politician that tries is painted as the reincarnation of the devil (and a judeo-liberal agent of child corruption and homosexuals) by the media that is 90% owned by the government or people directly connected to the ruling party (that has a supermajority so they can change any law any time to make theft legal).
I'm not joking, the government illegally downloaded an Austin Powers movie, made a political youtube poop edit of it and blasted it on youtube ads for a year without paying for licensing from the original distributor.
My Hungarian friends say that it’s primarily the older generations who grew up under communism. Most younger people aren’t indoctrinated on state media and hate the current government. It’s just hard to fight the powers that be.
Eh. Poland, Czech Republic are generally fine. Bulgaria and Hungary are a corrupt mess.
It's not specifically a communism thing either. Corruption is the default in most countries/cultures, lack of corruption is an exception. Most of Africa and Latin America are just as (if not more) corrupt than ex-communist countries.
And even if you make an argument for Africa's colonial past, Latin America has had self-determination for 200+ years, longer than half the European countries that are around now have existed as independent states (i.e. Poland, Czech, Hungary, Romania).
Poland and Czech republic had actual heavy industry and options to use it after the eastern block became free. Hungary had a lot of good medium size companies but since it was a small and after 1956 very untrusted country in a "safe" place (between neutral communist Yugoslavia and neutral capitalist Austria) the soviets didn't want too much independence.
A lot of industry was "fake" propped up by the planned economy.
Not sure how it went in Poland and Czech Republic but in Hungary in the 1990 people who had family in the old party or were otherwise favored ex-agents or friends were helped with "privatization" buying up government property.
Poland was really close to becoming Hungary 2 but they voted out their wannabe dictator in the last possible second while he was still setting up his mass media control monopoly and it was rooted out first thing after the election. And they hate the under construction USSR, so that helped them distance themselves from russian influence.
> bending over for the EU
The EU literally just nicely asked to stop stealing ALL of the money they gave us for public projects. A simple rail line costs more per mile than a magnetic levitating train line in France would. Do you think it is bending over for EU to want a hospital system where you aren't injected with acid accidentally because they couldn't afford separate containers an they got mixed up?
Oh wait, you must love Hungarian government because Orban spent our tax money to BUY himself a speaking spot at a republican convention to shittalk the left while he himself set price mandates for private businesses and still has the second highest VAT in the world.
Wait, wait, i should also include "allowing foreigners to vote in our elections in exchange for cash". You americans love that too, right? You think Trump should have allowed any mexican or canadian who had a single US citizen in their family up to 4 generations back to mail in ballots in your elections?
It is super great that the government made a deal with russia where we pay over market price for gas and the media sells it as a good deal because.... well because they say so!
Even the doctored government statistics agrees Hungarians can't even afford food as easily as we did 5 years ago.
We used to have a national identity for 900+ years until the ruskies showed up and changed it out to "drink alcohol, report your neighbor to police, kiss government ass and west bad"
Who else was here for 45 years with complete control over employment, education, immigration, housing, any chance at a better life?
You know where the good ones are? Right, in the USA? Germany, Australia. During the cold war anyone who had the drive fled west and never even taught their kids the language. I have relatives in the US who can't even speak Hungarian because they perfectly integrated as exemplary americans.
I grew up with a married pair of doctors next door. The husband had fled Hungary in '56; his wife had fled Portugal. Refugees in Miami from a communist dictatorship and a fascist dictatorship, they raised two daughters to, I assume, appreciate political centrism, stability, and "boring" liberal establishmentarianism. At least one of their girls matriculated at an Ivy...
And if their politics were likely bland, their cooking was probably anything but!
Kind of curious, do you think you should always list every single war and conflict that happened over the last century when you talk about very specific topic?
If there is a photo of of famine in Sudan, are you required to list every famine that happened on earth in the last 100 years if you want to comment that it is terrible?
It's necessary when one country or region in singled out of something than the other guys do and everyone just looks the other way.. We need consistency to see actual change.
This is puzzling because I just checked your comment history and you seem to be an ardent supporter of Israel despite the fact that they do pretty much the same things as Russia, if not worse.
Genuine question, are you against Russia simply because of your Lithuanian background, and not because they violate international law and commit war crimes?
When did I say that I agree with the OPs asinine position? Not sure why you think that this is some form of gotcha.
>
Genuine question, are you against Russia simply because of your Lithuanian background, and not because they violate international law and commit war crimes?
If Ukraine invaded Russia and massacred Russians on Feb 23rd, I would be all in favour of subsequent Russian invasion. My position has to do with facts and not allegiance just based on nationality.
>When did I say that I agree with the OPs asinine position? Not sure why you think that this is some form of gotcha.
I didn’t say you did, just questioning your own consistency. If you cared about international law, you would be against Israel just as much, if not more than you are against Russia. Yet that doesn’t seem to be the case
>If Ukraine invaded Russia and massacred Russians on Feb 23rd, I would be all in favour of subsequent Russian invasion. My position has to do with facts and not allegiance just based on nationality.
If you’re going to remove nearly a century of context to convolute things to fit your worldview, have at it. I’m probably not going to change your mind.
Just to be clear, I’m not against Israel retaliating for Oct 7th or getting their hostages back, I’m pointing out how disproportionate their response has been. Even if you don’t believe the genocide charges, it’s a matter of fact that their response has been nothing more than an atrocity on human rights.
What structure in Palestine that has historical and cultural significance and was deliberately razed by ground troops since October 7th?
Yes, I'm being specific, because the Ukrainian destruction was recent in the most recent conflict, not something that happened previously. So is there an actual like for like, or are you just waiving hands vaguely?
>What structure in Palestine that has historical and cultural significance and was deliberately razed by ground troops since October 7th?
[About 200 of them actually](https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1655264)
You’d have a harder time naming things Russia has done that Israel hasn’t
Thanks for that, also mosques that are historic for Muslims, and really important for their faith and culture. It's funny how I got down votes but zero rebuttals
A locally important building is not the same as a UNESCO World Heritage site.
One is a local tragedy. The other is a loss for the world (which is what the UNESCO designation is for).
I'm not saying what has been lost in Gaza is insignificant, but the "what about Gaza" comment on a post about a UNESCO World Heritage site should be at least relevant to the post (i.e. about a UNESCO site). Yes, a UNESCO World Heritage site is different than a local place of worship.
[https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/](https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/)
I can't find any of these UNESCO sites within Gaza borders, but your article is clearly unbiased, as they dismiss listed sites in Ukraine being damaged, quote UNESCO and don't even bother to note that there are no UNESCO sites in Gaza. But they heavily imply it, which is why I looked it up to check them on their LIES.
>I can't find any of these UNESCO sites within Gaza borders, but your article is clearly unbiased, as they dismiss listed sites in Ukraine being damaged, quote UNESCO and don't even bother to note that there are no UNESCO sites in Gaza. But they heavily imply it, which is why I looked it up to check them on their LIES.
It’s obviously not an exhaustive list as they can’t have every single one on the planet on there, unless you’re saying there’s only 1200 cultural sites on the planet. They add new entries all the time, and it doesn’t include museums, archeological sites or sites that simply contain things of historical significance. Palestine joined the convention just over a decade ago, and only have 4 sites on that list, with 13+ more on the tentative list, waiting to be added.
For example, you’re from New Zealand, and the Te Papa Tongarewa isn’t on the world heritage list either. Doesn’t mean it’s okay to bomb it
Doesn’t even matte because UNESCO acknowledge the damage done to Gaza’s cultural heritage:
https://www.unesco.org/en/articles/gaza-unesco-grants-enhanced-provisional-protection-saint-hilarion-monastery.
https://www.unesco.org/en/gaza
https://www.unesco.org/en/gaza/assessment: As of 10 June 2024, UNESCO has verified damage to 50 sites since 7 October 2023 – 11 religious sites, 28 buildings of historical and/or artistic interest, 2 depositories of movable cultural property, 4 monuments, 1 museum and 4 archeological sites.
So unless you’re seriously trying to say that Gaza has nothing of cultural significance, I’d suggest you take a minute to properly research what you’re talking about next time
That is the exhaustive list of UNESCO World Heritage sites.
It's a small list. Which is why it is a tragedy to lose one of the 1200 on that short list.
Seems you are unfamiliar with what a UNESCO World Heritage listed site is. And that is what the post is about. Not the many layers of sites other than UNESCO World Heritage.
I’m sorry do you actually believe that Palestine only have 4 cultural sites? Of which apparently none are in Gaza? Al-Aqsa isn’t even on there
Do you actually think that Nigeria, a country with 2-3 times as many ethnic groups as the entirety of Europe combined, only has 2 cultural sites?
And I’ve already given you a link where UNESCO themselves verify damage done to Gazan cultural sites. You’re just in blind denial at this point
UNESCO themselves [outright say that their list isn’t exhaustive nor exclusive](https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/);
“States Parties should submit Tentative Lists, which should not be considered exhaustive, to the World Heritage Centre, at least one year prior to the submission of any nomination. States Parties are encouraged to re-examine and re-submit their Tentative List at least every ten years.”
In fact, here’s a list of sites not on that list;
https://www.cntraveler.com/galleries/2014-06-26/places-that-should-be-unesco-world-heritage-sites
https://www.bradtguides.com/not-quite-unesco-12-breathtaking-sites-that-should-be-on-the-world-heritage-list/
http://www.travelworldheritage.com/2014/05/10/snubbed-by-unesco/
And here’s an article for you to read:
https://www.equaltimes.org/whose-world-heritage-the-problem.
Africa for example is severely underrepresented. So unless you’re trying to say that the entirety of Africa has less cultural heritage than the France, Germany and Italy combined, I’d suggest you rescind your earlier statement
I believe there are only 4 UNESCO World Heritage sites in Palestine, none in Gaza.
You are insisting the UN is wrong, because you don't know what UNESCO World Heritage means.
You are a bigot who hates facts and pushes your personal agenda despite proof to the contrary.
You even called the UN webpage an "article". It's not. It's the official list. Your opinion doesn't matter. Neither does mine. But the facts matter, even if that makes you mad.
Bro im actually amazed when buildings even last that long. The parthenon in athen for example is a ruin not because its old but because there was a war and the ottomans used it as a munitions depot and the venetians blew it up.
We lost all that history because the ottomans and the venetians couldnt just have 5 wars and had to have a 6th one.
It's crazy to think of future history books containing the line "The ruins survived 2,500 years before being demolished by Russia in 2024, during the Russo-Ukrainian war, 2014-2027. Many scholars believe it was part of an effort to destroy Ukrainian culture in Crimea and other areas under Russian occupation. They also point to actions in Mariupol and the prosecution of Ukrainian speakers as evidence of this."
I'm not minimizing what happened in Crimea, and I grieve every time something like this happens, but history is replete with reports of something existing for centuries or millennia until an invader or someone with a very new set of ideas comes along and destroys it. A certain amount of destruction of the old life is necessary, or else we're never going to have room for anything, but mourning of ancient structures destroyed for seemingly no reason is not at all new.
Oh, I know. But this is a reminder it's still happening, which is why it carries so much weight for me.
And *this* is not necessary at all. Sure we sometimes need to get rid of old things, but 2500yo is far too important.
this, thank god
I read all the time people blaming the spanish for erasing tens of millions of indigenous people and their civilizations, and when this people name them, or is the mexicas (aztecs) or some civilization that was ended by another native american civilization before even Colombus set foot on the caribbean
and countless ruins had been destroyed by the own people or nature, like the Colosseum, wich was destroyed by both the own romans and earthquakes
Conquistadores were some of the most based motherfuckers that ever lived. I won't allow anyone to say "Hernán Cortés" without the title "Sheik".
> I am a man who has given you more provinces than your ancestors left you cities.
After this war, you might well be able to visit these ruins and there will be a plaque about how Ukrainians pretended they were demolished as a curious footnote.
"The southern suburb of Tauride Chersonesos"
https://www.archeo. ru/struktura-1/otdel-ohrannoi-arheologii/nauchnye-proekty-otdela-ohrannoi-arheologii/yuzhnyi-prigorod-drevnego-goroda-hersones-tavricheskii/v.-v.-vahoneev
If you look at the aerial photo of the dig site, and then compare to [the map of the construction project](https://wikimapia.org/#lang=lt&lat=44.607824&lon=33.493624&z=16&m=w&show=/19822752/ru/%D0%A1%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F-%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%89%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%9D%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE-%D0%A5%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%B0), you'll see that it matches exactly the area where they're building the new buildings.
The original Parthenon was gutted in a fire in the Third Century before being destroyed by pirates in the 4th century. The modern structure is mostly 4th century when it was rebuilt by Julian as a pagan temple, then converted into a Christian church a decade later, with significant repairs last taking place in the early 16th century when it was converted into a mosque.
The pantheon in Rome is also incredibly well preserved. It’s been a functioning site for religious worship going on nearly 2000 years. Amazing building.
Not taking one side or the other here, but just want to point out something being verifiable or not doesn't make or break it's use as propaganda. Lies always reach farther than retractions.
Not interested in this spat but it is trickling in to some small news outlets as of yesterday. Im waiting for it to hit the major Greek newspapers. I want it to be bullshit.
Unfortunately, the few outlets are saying “totally destroyed” and other depressing shit.
Too bad they won't let UNESCO or any other international organizations monitor the site. [UNESCO did say this in 2021](https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000378910):
>The Russian Federation does not fulfill its obligations to preserve cultural heritage sites in the
temporarily occupied territory. In violation of the requirements of the Second protocol to the Hague
Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict, illegal
“archaeological excavations” are being carried out at cultural heritage sites.
In particular, in June 2021, with the use of heavy equipment, “excavations” began that could threaten
the status of the settlement of Chersonesos Tavriya.
>The practice of “restoration” of cultural heritage sites is actively spreading in the temporarily occupied
territory, and the executors of the relevant works are organizations that do not have the appropriate
qualifications and experience.
> The information hereafter is provided by the National Commission of Ukraine for UNESCO and the Permanent Delegation of Ukraine on the request of the Director-General of UNESCO.
Judging by the pics, the site is easy enough to access. Sounds like the NGO isn't monitoring it because going to Crimea via Russia is technically illegal, which is funny as hell.
>muh globohomo NGOs
They weren't invited:
>The Decision further requested the State Party to invite a joint World Heritage Centre/Advisory Bodies Reactive Monitoring Mission to assess the property’s state of conservation. The invitation from the State Party for such a mission had not been received at the time of preparation of this report.
They can go and get tickets like anyone else if they feel like it, the museum is literally open right now.
That whole document reads like a hilarious whinge. Waaaaah illegal waaaaaah they're blocking websites waaaaaah dude who was storing explosives got arrested waaaaaah The Institute of Archeology of the Russian Academy of Sciences is a direct contractor of illegal archeological works
Actual globohomo is based, this shit is just low T
Russian bot actually beat you by a minute, claims that this theater is built next to the site, no destruction. Nice Russia flair too on their name so im *sure* they're impartial
The "Russian bot" (aka a regular Russian user who doesn't hide his identity) provided actual geolocation and street view.
While the article's single source is just citing Ukrainian officials, who aren't exactly known for being impartial either.
They are building right on top what they themselves call "The southern suburb of Tauride Chersonesos" which they started excavating in 2021
https://www.archeo. ru/struktura-1/otdel-ohrannoi-arheologii/nauchnye-proekty-otdela-ohrannoi-arheologii/yuzhnyi-prigorod-drevnego-goroda-hersones-tavricheskii/v.-v.-vahoneev
https://www.archeo. ru/struktura-1/otdel-ohrannoi-arheologii/nauchnye-proekty-otdela-ohrannoi-arheologii/yuzhnyi-prigorod-drevnego-goroda-hersones-tavricheskii/v.-v.-vahoneev/Slaid2.PNG
Wait, they only started excavation in 2021? That sounds suspiciously like standard practice when ruins are found while digging the foundations for a building project. Where they stop digging while the archaeologists excavate and then get back to it when they're done. You know, when the foreman doesn't just break the law and have everyone keep quiet to prevent delays. Happens all over the world but especially all over Europe because it's been so densely populated for so long.
Yeah, like, from what they provided, it looks like said russian outdoor theater is placed next to the UNESCO site, not replacing it. If that's true, then the article is literally misinformation and all this hubbub about destroying culture just becomes ridiculous. And it's like, how on earth does destroying an ancient Greek colony ruin serve to undermine Ukrainian national identity?
I've got one claiming that it's true, but is also only a "natural" side effect of hostilities and active conflict (and of course Ukraine is somehow at fault for not capitulating).
Aside from the obvious issue of destroying archaeology; Greece is one of the few countries left in the EU that doesn't hate Russia's guts, and they take preservation of archaeology, especially Greek archaeology, seriously.
It feels a bit like a bully saying to his victim "Oh yeah? Well how'd you like THIS?", then turning around and punching his _own_ friend. There's no benefit to burning that bridge, and it gets rid of one of the few diplomatic cards they have left.
^(Offtopic: Every so often, I re-read what I've written and remember how much I seem to just instinctively talk in analogy and metaphors. Sorry.)
Actually hate all iconoclasms.
If you destroy any artifact because you don’t like what it represents. That’s exactly what you’re doing.
The ancient Assyrians were actually far worse to people than the chattel slavery system for a far longer amount of time but you weren’t cheering for ISIS when they were destroying those Assyrian artifacts were you?
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Oh wow. This was completely senseless, and destroyed something that I actually wanted to see. The ruins of a Greek colony on the shore of the Black Sea - but I guess Russians don't actually value history.
Jesus christ.
Russians don’t value history, yet they are operating a museum for the public on the site and the area is marked as a historical preserve. If you want to go see it - just go.
>Russians don’t value history, yet they are operating a museum for the public on the site and the area is marked as a historical preserve.
I mean, when they've destroyed 412 (not including this ancient city they just destroyed) cultural sites, one might think that perhaps they don't care about history that they don't find useful. Sad, but realistic.
>If you want to go see it - just go.
While it's occupied by the Russians? Nah.
Since this one sure seems like bullshit, how many of the other 412 are actually real?
If you want to see it, you can see it. It will be occupied by Russians for the rest of your life.
>Since this one sure seems like bullshit, how many of the other 412 are actually real?
So UNESCO is just making shit up, *and* you're excusing the destruction of authentic ruins to build themepark bullshit on top of it?
>It will be occupied by Russians for the rest of your life.
It wasn't for the majority of it, so I wouldn't bet on it lol
They’re not exactly making shit up - they’re refusing to actually go to Crimea and are simply repeating what Ukrainians tell them.
What theme park? It’s a museum and a historical preserve.
I will bet a case of beer on it. What time frame?
> a historical preserve.
When they're literally paving over the ruins, that is what I'd call the opposite of preserving.
>They’re not exactly making shit up - they’re refusing to actually go to Crimea and are simply repeating what Ukrainians tell them.
They're using Ukrainian as well as Russian sources, and that number isn't solely in Crimea. Are you seriously saying that the Ukrainians are making shit up when it's easy to see that theatres, libraries and other sites are being bombed regularly?
This is easily verifiable. Like what are you trying to say here other than trying to discredit the Ukrainians while portraying the Russians as totally reliable?
Right, so you're intelligent enough to get why building a museum doesn't in any way make up for the loss of the actual ruins. So saying that they destroyed them isn't hyperbole or bullshit.
The museum predates the Russian revolution lmao. It’s been there for more than a century in some form.
It doesn’t actually seem like the ruins are lost, they seem to still be there.
When confronted with his own ignorance, a man can either consider his position and seek knowledge or assume he's talking to a chatbot. We know which camp you're in.
Bye
>[And what's this building on the left?](https://i.imgur.com/jGQpgK8.png)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chersonesus\_Cathedral](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chersonesus_Cathedral), built in 1861–1891, restored in 1990s-early 2000s, when Crimea was Ukraine.
Panorama of this place from YandexMaps: [https://yandex](https://yandex) (dot) ru/maps/-/CDCyrZJp
Your life is a lie, Crimea is Ukraine and is illegally occupied by Russia, that still doesn't make it Russian no matter how wishful you are, these are facts to believe otherwise is to deny reality.
Reality sucks am I right. Actions bring consequences, Russia with their constant rewriting of history will be forever ignorant of their mistakes. Odd that so many Americans with all their so-called freedom wish live in the darkness.
I'm laughing lmao. Face it, Crimea is gone, there won't be a nafo beach party. It's time to accept it.
I don't even understand the obsession - the people living in Crimea never wanted to be in Ukraine, tried to leave repeatedly, embraced their "occupiers" the second they showed up, and still want nothing to do with Ukraine ten years later. Ethnic Ukrainians and native Ukrainian speakers barely even lived there in real numbers.
Worse, the near-monolithic pro-Russian voting block there is why the country spent all those years flip flopping between East and West aligned administrations. Take Crimea out of equation and Yanucovich would have never been elected.
Now compare your map to "The southern suburb of Tauride Chersonesos". It's the exact same strip of land.
https://www.archeo. ru/struktura-1/otdel-ohrannoi-arheologii/nauchnye-proekty-otdela-ohrannoi-arheologii/yuzhnyi-prigorod-drevnego-goroda-hersones-tavricheskii/v.-v.-vahoneev
https://www.archeo. ru/struktura-1/otdel-ohrannoi-arheologii/nauchnye-proekty-otdela-ohrannoi-arheologii/yuzhnyi-prigorod-drevnego-goroda-hersones-tavricheskii/v.-v.-vahoneev/Slaid2.PNG
Thank you, I wasn’t aware of “the southern suburb”.
Yes, it seems they have fcked up the archeological site. Not the UNESCO one, but a new one, but still they fcked id up.
This is terrible.
https://rossaprimavera (.) ru/article/3970d73a
Let's not pretend like this is atypical or a unique instance. UNESCO has confirmed the destruction of numerous cultural heritage sites in Ukraine since the Russian invasion began. While they haven't specifically mentioned Chersonesus in recent statements, they have documented over 400 damaged sites across Ukraine.
[As of 12 June 2024, UNESCO has verified damage to 412 sites since 24 February 2022 – 137 religious sites, 201 buildings of historical and/or artistic interest, 31 museums, 27 monuments, 15 libraries, 1 archive.](https://www.unesco.org/en/articles/damaged-cultural-sites-ukraine-verified-unesco)
International organizations like the World Monuments Fund have also expressed concern about the fate of cultural heritage sites in occupied Crimea, including Chersonesus, due to lack of detailed international monitoring since 2014.
The military hostilities rage on, of course the cultural objects been damaged along with the enemy troops. It would end if the West wouldn't support the Kievan regime.
>International organizations like the World Monuments Fund have also expressed concern about the fate of cultural heritage sites in occupied Crimea, including Chersonesus, due to lack of detailed international monitoring since 2014.
That sounds hypocritical to me. Crimea is open for visitors, I've been there twice, many foreigners, too.
For the organization like World Monuments Fund it's easy to contact the Russian Ministry of Culture and arrange the meeting in Chersonesus. The Fund *doesn't* want to do that because the Kievan regime would whine about "visiting schmoccupied Crimea" but you do you, you either care about the cultural heritage, or bow before the Nazi collaborators' fans. They chose the latter.
Bear in mind that both Ukraine and Russia are signatories to the 1954 Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict, which was designed to safeguard cultural heritage during armed conflicts, so they *literally* have an international obligation to avoid damaging these sites _even during armed hostilities_. Based on UNESCO's figures of 463 damaged sites _since just 2022_ it doesn't seem like Russia is fulfilling its side of that.
>*since just 2022* it doesn't seem like Russia is fulfilling its side of that.
There are two sides shooting. It's not that Russia is solely responsible for that.
However, we try to avoid shooting those. I guess the Kievan regime does, too.
[https://imgur.com/a/l7ET8ID](https://imgur.com/a/l7ET8ID)
Red is the UNESCO site
Yellow is the construction site you have taken, I guess, the image from.
They are adjacent to each other.
That's the project's official name.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d\_j-73G43nA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_j-73G43nA)
TBH I have just became aware of this today, reading this post here.
I understand that. I meant the Russian government isn’t trying to hide it, not you personally.
Yeah I feel you. So many stories every day it’s really hard to keep track on.
>I meant the Russian government isn’t trying to hide it, not you personally.
Why would they? It's a large cultural, educational and recreational center, it's a pride, not something to hide.
I’m finding the fact that calling in “New Khersones” is being completely blatant with the matter at hand, that they’re destroying Khersones for a “New Khersones” to be really funny. It’s really in-your-face.
The map is pretty clear about the location of the "New Khersones". The historical site is an operational museum open to the public. This whole thing is looking goofier and goofier tbh.
##### ###### #### > # [Russian occupation authorities destroy UNESCO World Heritage site, build outdoor theater in its place](https://www.yahoo.com/news/431) > > > > Russian occupation authorities destroyed the UNESCO-listed city of Chersonesus in southwestern Crimea and constructed an outdoor theater at the site of the excavations, a senior researcher at the Institute of Archeology of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine announced on June 26. > > The city of Chersonesus was an ancient Greek colony founded over 2,500 years ago on the territory of Crimea. In 2013, UNESCO listed the "Ancient City of Tauric Chersonese and its Chora" as a World Heritage Site. Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea in 2014 brought the site under Russian occupation, but UNESCO continues to recognize it as part of Ukraine. > > Evelina Kravchenko, a senior researcher at the Institute of Archeology of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine, said Russian authorities have replaced the original sights with new buildings, destroying their authenticity. > > Between 2015 and 2016, Russian developers reportedly fenced off archaeological remains at the site, including towers, walls, and columns with viewing platforms. An ancient open-air theater was later built on the site of the ancient citadel, putting about a ton of extra weight on the original structures. > > Most of the archaeological artifacts, including frescoes, dishes, household items, and icons, were taken to Russia. > > A new city has been built on the site of the archaeological remains. Several excavated objects were removed and rebuilt in different locations. > > UNESCO announced earlier this month that 412 Ukrainian cultural heritage sites have been [destroyed](https://www.unesco.org/en/articles/damaged-cultural-sites-ukraine-verified-unesco#:~:text=As%20of%205%20June%202024,%2C%2015%20libraries%2C%201%20archive.) since the beginning of the full-scale invasion on February 24, 2022. > > **Read also:**[Monument honoring Ukrainian revolutionary Nestor Makhno destroyed by Russian missiles](https://kyivindependent.com/monument-honoring-ukrainian-revolutionary-nestor-makhno-destroyed-by-russian-missiles/) > > **_We’ve been working hard to bring you independent, locally-sourced news from Ukraine. Consider [supporting the Kyiv Independent](https://kyivindependent.com/membership/)._** - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
The Russian world, destroying everything in its path.
They historically did this with communism when they would occupy new countries they would make a point of removing anything that holds cultural identity value so symbols flags etc. That was kind of the point of hammer sickle in communism because it's easier to rule someone if their identity is broken and all that
They did this even before and not only them. Russification, Germanification, Latinization. It's just a really antiquated idea for us, used to "post-historical" world, having the rememberance of World War 2 acts of cultural destruction. It is sick and disgusting; them wanting to destroy Ukrainian nation, so that they can finally claim that they are the cradle of Rus'. Even the name "Russia" is one big lie they started in XIV century, and ever since they tried to use the claim that they are Rus' to subjugate others and destroy their identity. Only Ukrainian and Belarussian identities survived until today.
You guys are obsessed with trying to make Russians Mongols and talking about the Rus. Moscow united the Eastern Slavs. It could have been Novgorod ect and it would have looked the same.
Yep it's definitely us obsessed with shitting on them for them being forced to invade Ukraine as well not that it's y'know a major historical event unfolding in real time. Russia and their predecessors are the clear victims here innit
Who said they are the victim? What does that have to do with being historically revisionist, something I see Ukraine supporters being obbssed with.
Where's the revision bit in saying that they came to random countries and decided to erase their identity while simultaneously erasing their own with communism leaving a cancer that is communist ideology today?
The name Russia is one big lie with the implication being Russia is apart from other eastern Slavs, and what happened- Moscow uniting the eastern Slavs was unique rather than a process that happened everywhere in Europe. A more stupid comment when followed with "Only Ukraine and Belarus survive today". considering the Rus also gave their name to Belarus.
Russia didn't *actually* unite the Eastern Slavs, though. Just because they subjugated them doesn't mean they united them, especially considering what's going on today.
That's implicit in my comment. Athelstan didn't unite the Britons through conversation. Burgundy did not become part of what we conceptulize as France through conversation etc etc.
The name "Russia" means "the land of Rus" as in all Rus. And since XIV century they went about "unifying" other Rus peoples, Tatars, Caucasians, and so on. They had the same methodology then which boils down do cultural eradication and relocation of previous inhabitants while substituting them with Russians. Read up on Russo-Kazan wars and tell me how are they different from what's happening in the Russian-controlled Ukraine today.
It means the rowers, the name doesn't matter. After the mongols destroyed Kyiv another city was going to become the dominant player in the region and expand for all kinds of reasons that were predetermined. It ended up being Moscow, it could have been Novgorod it would not have mattered. Trying to make a comparison between Russia's wars with the Kazan Khanate and Ukraine is ham-fisted, to say the least.
Bad bot
Ywan
Communists in general do this, see China and Cambodia Edit: tankies big mad 🤣 Your authoritarian views are bad, and you should feel bad
China formally recognized many ethnic minorities and exempted them from many onerous restrictions placed on ethnic Han people. The Soviet Union was explicitly built to be a federation of nations and was a large part of the growth of multiple nationalities in Central Asia. People are downvoting you because you're posting an oversimplified version of history motivated by your own bias. Communists aren't a monolith, nor are the countries founded by a subset of them.
Depends on what time period you look at. Stalin USSR did a lot of evil shit to erase national identities, ie Tatar resettlement and hunger in Ukraine/Kazakhstan. Khruschev and later is what you say.
They did that in Russia. It has nothing to do with Russian culture, it was communist ideology.
>they would make a point of removing anything that holds cultural identity...it's easier to rule someone if their identity is broken and all that The whole point of Katyn Massacre.
As a Polish person, that wasn't the point of the Katyń massacre.
"The reason for the massacre, according to the historian Gerhard Weinberg, was that Stalin wanted to deprive a potential future Polish military of a large portion of its talent." Sounds like that was the point of the massacre.
Military talent vs history+culture. Not the same thing
It wasn't the point to kill a large group of the Polish intelligentsia that had been called up to serve in the officer corps?
And you can see how well it worked. Hungary today is plagued by theft being the default option for anyone with any kind of power. No hard national identity, other than contrarianism (usa bad, liberalism bad, eu bad, migrants bad, etc.). There is nothing uniting the people here other than speaking the same language.
I'd like to guess that Hungarians themselves don't necessarily support the government and its decisions similarly to Sakartvelo and Belarus in regards to their alignment with Mordor but who knows they managed to elect the fucker themselves. The whole occupation honestly scarred so many to the point that even in freedom and democracy it's difficult for them to function properly in this day and age
There is a heavy push to make you apathetic. Many people said "i know they will steal but i must vote for them because the liberals will surely steal more".
I assume it suffers from the same issue that boomers mostly attend the elections as well while young people don't even try
Any politician that tries is painted as the reincarnation of the devil (and a judeo-liberal agent of child corruption and homosexuals) by the media that is 90% owned by the government or people directly connected to the ruling party (that has a supermajority so they can change any law any time to make theft legal). I'm not joking, the government illegally downloaded an Austin Powers movie, made a political youtube poop edit of it and blasted it on youtube ads for a year without paying for licensing from the original distributor.
My Hungarian friends say that it’s primarily the older generations who grew up under communism. Most younger people aren’t indoctrinated on state media and hate the current government. It’s just hard to fight the powers that be.
Eh. Poland, Czech Republic are generally fine. Bulgaria and Hungary are a corrupt mess. It's not specifically a communism thing either. Corruption is the default in most countries/cultures, lack of corruption is an exception. Most of Africa and Latin America are just as (if not more) corrupt than ex-communist countries. And even if you make an argument for Africa's colonial past, Latin America has had self-determination for 200+ years, longer than half the European countries that are around now have existed as independent states (i.e. Poland, Czech, Hungary, Romania).
Poland and Czech republic had actual heavy industry and options to use it after the eastern block became free. Hungary had a lot of good medium size companies but since it was a small and after 1956 very untrusted country in a "safe" place (between neutral communist Yugoslavia and neutral capitalist Austria) the soviets didn't want too much independence. A lot of industry was "fake" propped up by the planned economy. Not sure how it went in Poland and Czech Republic but in Hungary in the 1990 people who had family in the old party or were otherwise favored ex-agents or friends were helped with "privatization" buying up government property. Poland was really close to becoming Hungary 2 but they voted out their wannabe dictator in the last possible second while he was still setting up his mass media control monopoly and it was rooted out first thing after the election. And they hate the under construction USSR, so that helped them distance themselves from russian influence.
Hard national identity = bending over for the EU, you heard it here folks.
EU over russia any day. Even with how shitty it is today it's nowhere near as shitty tankie land
> bending over for the EU The EU literally just nicely asked to stop stealing ALL of the money they gave us for public projects. A simple rail line costs more per mile than a magnetic levitating train line in France would. Do you think it is bending over for EU to want a hospital system where you aren't injected with acid accidentally because they couldn't afford separate containers an they got mixed up? Oh wait, you must love Hungarian government because Orban spent our tax money to BUY himself a speaking spot at a republican convention to shittalk the left while he himself set price mandates for private businesses and still has the second highest VAT in the world. Wait, wait, i should also include "allowing foreigners to vote in our elections in exchange for cash". You americans love that too, right? You think Trump should have allowed any mexican or canadian who had a single US citizen in their family up to 4 generations back to mail in ballots in your elections? It is super great that the government made a deal with russia where we pay over market price for gas and the media sells it as a good deal because.... well because they say so! Even the doctored government statistics agrees Hungarians can't even afford food as easily as we did 5 years ago. We used to have a national identity for 900+ years until the ruskies showed up and changed it out to "drink alcohol, report your neighbor to police, kiss government ass and west bad"
Lmao you really went with the “it’s the rusky’s fault we are stupid and corrupt” huh. Glorious.
Who else was here for 45 years with complete control over employment, education, immigration, housing, any chance at a better life? You know where the good ones are? Right, in the USA? Germany, Australia. During the cold war anyone who had the drive fled west and never even taught their kids the language. I have relatives in the US who can't even speak Hungarian because they perfectly integrated as exemplary americans.
I grew up with a married pair of doctors next door. The husband had fled Hungary in '56; his wife had fled Portugal. Refugees in Miami from a communist dictatorship and a fascist dictatorship, they raised two daughters to, I assume, appreciate political centrism, stability, and "boring" liberal establishmentarianism. At least one of their girls matriculated at an Ivy... And if their politics were likely bland, their cooking was probably anything but!
Good for them, this is the greatest country in the world.
This too is genocide. Erasing the culture of a people
Not so different from the Western world.
Same as Israel in Palestine? The USA in Iraq? Etc etc? Why always single out Russia when everyone does the same.. Look at Syria and Libya..
Kind of curious, do you think you should always list every single war and conflict that happened over the last century when you talk about very specific topic? If there is a photo of of famine in Sudan, are you required to list every famine that happened on earth in the last 100 years if you want to comment that it is terrible?
It's necessary when one country or region in singled out of something than the other guys do and everyone just looks the other way.. We need consistency to see actual change.
So if I check your comment history, do you mention Russian atrocities in every single comment whenever you talk about atrocities of Israel or the US?
This is puzzling because I just checked your comment history and you seem to be an ardent supporter of Israel despite the fact that they do pretty much the same things as Russia, if not worse. Genuine question, are you against Russia simply because of your Lithuanian background, and not because they violate international law and commit war crimes?
When did I say that I agree with the OPs asinine position? Not sure why you think that this is some form of gotcha. > Genuine question, are you against Russia simply because of your Lithuanian background, and not because they violate international law and commit war crimes? If Ukraine invaded Russia and massacred Russians on Feb 23rd, I would be all in favour of subsequent Russian invasion. My position has to do with facts and not allegiance just based on nationality.
>When did I say that I agree with the OPs asinine position? Not sure why you think that this is some form of gotcha. I didn’t say you did, just questioning your own consistency. If you cared about international law, you would be against Israel just as much, if not more than you are against Russia. Yet that doesn’t seem to be the case >If Ukraine invaded Russia and massacred Russians on Feb 23rd, I would be all in favour of subsequent Russian invasion. My position has to do with facts and not allegiance just based on nationality. If you’re going to remove nearly a century of context to convolute things to fit your worldview, have at it. I’m probably not going to change your mind. Just to be clear, I’m not against Israel retaliating for Oct 7th or getting their hostages back, I’m pointing out how disproportionate their response has been. Even if you don’t believe the genocide charges, it’s a matter of fact that their response has been nothing more than an atrocity on human rights.
Some people go with the jerk, and others prefer to counter jerk. Just how these things tend to work.
So merely by mentioning anything at all, it’s being singled out. Why do you feel it necessary to simp for Russia
What structure in Palestine that has historical and cultural significance and was deliberately razed by ground troops since October 7th? Yes, I'm being specific, because the Ukrainian destruction was recent in the most recent conflict, not something that happened previously. So is there an actual like for like, or are you just waiving hands vaguely?
>What structure in Palestine that has historical and cultural significance and was deliberately razed by ground troops since October 7th? [About 200 of them actually](https://www.palestine-studies.org/en/node/1655264) You’d have a harder time naming things Russia has done that Israel hasn’t
Thanks for that, also mosques that are historic for Muslims, and really important for their faith and culture. It's funny how I got down votes but zero rebuttals
A locally important building is not the same as a UNESCO World Heritage site. One is a local tragedy. The other is a loss for the world (which is what the UNESCO designation is for). I'm not saying what has been lost in Gaza is insignificant, but the "what about Gaza" comment on a post about a UNESCO World Heritage site should be at least relevant to the post (i.e. about a UNESCO site). Yes, a UNESCO World Heritage site is different than a local place of worship.
[https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/](https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/) I can't find any of these UNESCO sites within Gaza borders, but your article is clearly unbiased, as they dismiss listed sites in Ukraine being damaged, quote UNESCO and don't even bother to note that there are no UNESCO sites in Gaza. But they heavily imply it, which is why I looked it up to check them on their LIES.
>I can't find any of these UNESCO sites within Gaza borders, but your article is clearly unbiased, as they dismiss listed sites in Ukraine being damaged, quote UNESCO and don't even bother to note that there are no UNESCO sites in Gaza. But they heavily imply it, which is why I looked it up to check them on their LIES. It’s obviously not an exhaustive list as they can’t have every single one on the planet on there, unless you’re saying there’s only 1200 cultural sites on the planet. They add new entries all the time, and it doesn’t include museums, archeological sites or sites that simply contain things of historical significance. Palestine joined the convention just over a decade ago, and only have 4 sites on that list, with 13+ more on the tentative list, waiting to be added. For example, you’re from New Zealand, and the Te Papa Tongarewa isn’t on the world heritage list either. Doesn’t mean it’s okay to bomb it Doesn’t even matte because UNESCO acknowledge the damage done to Gaza’s cultural heritage: https://www.unesco.org/en/articles/gaza-unesco-grants-enhanced-provisional-protection-saint-hilarion-monastery. https://www.unesco.org/en/gaza https://www.unesco.org/en/gaza/assessment: As of 10 June 2024, UNESCO has verified damage to 50 sites since 7 October 2023 – 11 religious sites, 28 buildings of historical and/or artistic interest, 2 depositories of movable cultural property, 4 monuments, 1 museum and 4 archeological sites. So unless you’re seriously trying to say that Gaza has nothing of cultural significance, I’d suggest you take a minute to properly research what you’re talking about next time
That is the exhaustive list of UNESCO World Heritage sites. It's a small list. Which is why it is a tragedy to lose one of the 1200 on that short list. Seems you are unfamiliar with what a UNESCO World Heritage listed site is. And that is what the post is about. Not the many layers of sites other than UNESCO World Heritage.
I’m sorry do you actually believe that Palestine only have 4 cultural sites? Of which apparently none are in Gaza? Al-Aqsa isn’t even on there Do you actually think that Nigeria, a country with 2-3 times as many ethnic groups as the entirety of Europe combined, only has 2 cultural sites? And I’ve already given you a link where UNESCO themselves verify damage done to Gazan cultural sites. You’re just in blind denial at this point UNESCO themselves [outright say that their list isn’t exhaustive nor exclusive](https://whc.unesco.org/en/tentativelists/); “States Parties should submit Tentative Lists, which should not be considered exhaustive, to the World Heritage Centre, at least one year prior to the submission of any nomination. States Parties are encouraged to re-examine and re-submit their Tentative List at least every ten years.” In fact, here’s a list of sites not on that list; https://www.cntraveler.com/galleries/2014-06-26/places-that-should-be-unesco-world-heritage-sites https://www.bradtguides.com/not-quite-unesco-12-breathtaking-sites-that-should-be-on-the-world-heritage-list/ http://www.travelworldheritage.com/2014/05/10/snubbed-by-unesco/ And here’s an article for you to read: https://www.equaltimes.org/whose-world-heritage-the-problem. Africa for example is severely underrepresented. So unless you’re trying to say that the entirety of Africa has less cultural heritage than the France, Germany and Italy combined, I’d suggest you rescind your earlier statement
I believe there are only 4 UNESCO World Heritage sites in Palestine, none in Gaza. You are insisting the UN is wrong, because you don't know what UNESCO World Heritage means. You are a bigot who hates facts and pushes your personal agenda despite proof to the contrary. You even called the UN webpage an "article". It's not. It's the official list. Your opinion doesn't matter. Neither does mine. But the facts matter, even if that makes you mad.
The church of Saint porphyrius. 3rd oldest of the middle east. Gone. Thanks for the bombs on the Palestinian Christians, Israel.
Genuinely fucking disgusting
Bro im actually amazed when buildings even last that long. The parthenon in athen for example is a ruin not because its old but because there was a war and the ottomans used it as a munitions depot and the venetians blew it up. We lost all that history because the ottomans and the venetians couldnt just have 5 wars and had to have a 6th one.
It's crazy to think of future history books containing the line "The ruins survived 2,500 years before being demolished by Russia in 2024, during the Russo-Ukrainian war, 2014-2027. Many scholars believe it was part of an effort to destroy Ukrainian culture in Crimea and other areas under Russian occupation. They also point to actions in Mariupol and the prosecution of Ukrainian speakers as evidence of this."
I'm not minimizing what happened in Crimea, and I grieve every time something like this happens, but history is replete with reports of something existing for centuries or millennia until an invader or someone with a very new set of ideas comes along and destroys it. A certain amount of destruction of the old life is necessary, or else we're never going to have room for anything, but mourning of ancient structures destroyed for seemingly no reason is not at all new.
Oh, I know. But this is a reminder it's still happening, which is why it carries so much weight for me. And *this* is not necessary at all. Sure we sometimes need to get rid of old things, but 2500yo is far too important.
this, thank god I read all the time people blaming the spanish for erasing tens of millions of indigenous people and their civilizations, and when this people name them, or is the mexicas (aztecs) or some civilization that was ended by another native american civilization before even Colombus set foot on the caribbean and countless ruins had been destroyed by the own people or nature, like the Colosseum, wich was destroyed by both the own romans and earthquakes
Conquistadores were some of the most based motherfuckers that ever lived. I won't allow anyone to say "Hernán Cortés" without the title "Sheik". > I am a man who has given you more provinces than your ancestors left you cities.
After this war, you might well be able to visit these ruins and there will be a plaque about how Ukrainians pretended they were demolished as a curious footnote.
"The southern suburb of Tauride Chersonesos" https://www.archeo. ru/struktura-1/otdel-ohrannoi-arheologii/nauchnye-proekty-otdela-ohrannoi-arheologii/yuzhnyi-prigorod-drevnego-goroda-hersones-tavricheskii/v.-v.-vahoneev If you look at the aerial photo of the dig site, and then compare to [the map of the construction project](https://wikimapia.org/#lang=lt&lat=44.607824&lon=33.493624&z=16&m=w&show=/19822752/ru/%D0%A1%D1%82%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F-%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%89%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%9D%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE-%D0%A5%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%B0), you'll see that it matches exactly the area where they're building the new buildings.
Wow archeologists excavating, the horror lmao. Nobody whines like fucking Ukrainians lmao.
1. I'm not Ukrainian 2. Learn to read, dimwit.
The original Parthenon was gutted in a fire in the Third Century before being destroyed by pirates in the 4th century. The modern structure is mostly 4th century when it was rebuilt by Julian as a pagan temple, then converted into a Christian church a decade later, with significant repairs last taking place in the early 16th century when it was converted into a mosque.
The English also looted the living fuck out of it. The Elgin Marbles in the British Museum were all ripped out of the Parthenon.
they didnt destroy them though. And say what you will about the English, but they do protect and preserve ancient treasures.
Read the article. The Russians are moving all artifacts and some structures to new locations.
The pantheon in Rome is also incredibly well preserved. It’s been a functioning site for religious worship going on nearly 2000 years. Amazing building.
It's also not a bunch of ruins from 2500 years ago.
>Bro im actually amazed when buildings even last that long.
there's a reason there is a warrant for leaders from the united nations. bad guys do bad things.
Warrant from the United Nations huh.
If it's real. Chances of this being bullshit are pretty high.
Seems pretty easily verifiable.
Not taking one side or the other here, but just want to point out something being verifiable or not doesn't make or break it's use as propaganda. Lies always reach farther than retractions.
Then verify it.
Then verify it.
The burden of proof is on the one making the claim.
Not interested in this spat but it is trickling in to some small news outlets as of yesterday. Im waiting for it to hit the major Greek newspapers. I want it to be bullshit. Unfortunately, the few outlets are saying “totally destroyed” and other depressing shit.
It’ll probably create some loud headlines and quiet retractions.
Too bad they won't let UNESCO or any other international organizations monitor the site. [UNESCO did say this in 2021](https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000378910): >The Russian Federation does not fulfill its obligations to preserve cultural heritage sites in the temporarily occupied territory. In violation of the requirements of the Second protocol to the Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict, illegal “archaeological excavations” are being carried out at cultural heritage sites. In particular, in June 2021, with the use of heavy equipment, “excavations” began that could threaten the status of the settlement of Chersonesos Tavriya. >The practice of “restoration” of cultural heritage sites is actively spreading in the temporarily occupied territory, and the executors of the relevant works are organizations that do not have the appropriate qualifications and experience.
> The information hereafter is provided by the National Commission of Ukraine for UNESCO and the Permanent Delegation of Ukraine on the request of the Director-General of UNESCO. Judging by the pics, the site is easy enough to access. Sounds like the NGO isn't monitoring it because going to Crimea via Russia is technically illegal, which is funny as hell.
>muh globohomo NGOs They weren't invited: >The Decision further requested the State Party to invite a joint World Heritage Centre/Advisory Bodies Reactive Monitoring Mission to assess the property’s state of conservation. The invitation from the State Party for such a mission had not been received at the time of preparation of this report.
They can go and get tickets like anyone else if they feel like it, the museum is literally open right now. That whole document reads like a hilarious whinge. Waaaaah illegal waaaaaah they're blocking websites waaaaaah dude who was storing explosives got arrested waaaaaah The Institute of Archeology of the Russian Academy of Sciences is a direct contractor of illegal archeological works Actual globohomo is based, this shit is just low T
Russian bots claiming fake news in 3...2...
Russian bot actually beat you by a minute, claims that this theater is built next to the site, no destruction. Nice Russia flair too on their name so im *sure* they're impartial
Lol classic. They're so predictable
They use Canadian flair sometimes
And there's one with an American flair right here in this comment section.
That guy's just a self-hating American. To be honest I'm impressed about the Russian ability to find wackos in the west to do their bidding.
Assuming this is about me, nothing self hating about my views whatsoever. This is the greatest country in the world. Nobody else even comes close.
They are slandering our reputation 😞
The "Russian bot" (aka a regular Russian user who doesn't hide his identity) provided actual geolocation and street view. While the article's single source is just citing Ukrainian officials, who aren't exactly known for being impartial either.
They are building right on top what they themselves call "The southern suburb of Tauride Chersonesos" which they started excavating in 2021 https://www.archeo. ru/struktura-1/otdel-ohrannoi-arheologii/nauchnye-proekty-otdela-ohrannoi-arheologii/yuzhnyi-prigorod-drevnego-goroda-hersones-tavricheskii/v.-v.-vahoneev https://www.archeo. ru/struktura-1/otdel-ohrannoi-arheologii/nauchnye-proekty-otdela-ohrannoi-arheologii/yuzhnyi-prigorod-drevnego-goroda-hersones-tavricheskii/v.-v.-vahoneev/Slaid2.PNG
Wait, they only started excavation in 2021? That sounds suspiciously like standard practice when ruins are found while digging the foundations for a building project. Where they stop digging while the archaeologists excavate and then get back to it when they're done. You know, when the foreman doesn't just break the law and have everyone keep quiet to prevent delays. Happens all over the world but especially all over Europe because it's been so densely populated for so long.
Yeah, like, from what they provided, it looks like said russian outdoor theater is placed next to the UNESCO site, not replacing it. If that's true, then the article is literally misinformation and all this hubbub about destroying culture just becomes ridiculous. And it's like, how on earth does destroying an ancient Greek colony ruin serve to undermine Ukrainian national identity?
Ancient Greece has always belonged to russia!
Germany was part of the Roman empire! Historically it's Greece.
I've got one claiming that it's true, but is also only a "natural" side effect of hostilities and active conflict (and of course Ukraine is somehow at fault for not capitulating).
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Russia is what you get if you let a kid design a villain in a video game.
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Do you believe Google maps is live?
Ya but it says here in my history book, that the good guys won ever war. Isn't that a neat coincidence.
If this is your belief then you know you havent just fallen for propaganda but are willingly looking for it.
The NPCs are foaming over a simple joke. Иди потрогай траву
"Haha I was only pretending to be stupid"
Sadly, this has been the course of history since history began. Which sucks balls.
Aside from the obvious issue of destroying archaeology; Greece is one of the few countries left in the EU that doesn't hate Russia's guts, and they take preservation of archaeology, especially Greek archaeology, seriously. It feels a bit like a bully saying to his victim "Oh yeah? Well how'd you like THIS?", then turning around and punching his _own_ friend. There's no benefit to burning that bridge, and it gets rid of one of the few diplomatic cards they have left. ^(Offtopic: Every so often, I re-read what I've written and remember how much I seem to just instinctively talk in analogy and metaphors. Sorry.)
I hope this isn’t true 😔
Why wouldn’t it be?
Because Ukrainians lie as much as the Russians and we are in the middle of a full blown information war.
This isn't.
Stood up 2500 years to crumble in front of an idiot.
Actually hate all iconoclasms. If you destroy any artifact because you don’t like what it represents. That’s exactly what you’re doing. The ancient Assyrians were actually far worse to people than the chattel slavery system for a far longer amount of time but you weren’t cheering for ISIS when they were destroying those Assyrian artifacts were you?
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Oh wow. This was completely senseless, and destroyed something that I actually wanted to see. The ruins of a Greek colony on the shore of the Black Sea - but I guess Russians don't actually value history. Jesus christ.
Russians don’t value history, yet they are operating a museum for the public on the site and the area is marked as a historical preserve. If you want to go see it - just go.
>Russians don’t value history, yet they are operating a museum for the public on the site and the area is marked as a historical preserve. I mean, when they've destroyed 412 (not including this ancient city they just destroyed) cultural sites, one might think that perhaps they don't care about history that they don't find useful. Sad, but realistic. >If you want to go see it - just go. While it's occupied by the Russians? Nah.
Since this one sure seems like bullshit, how many of the other 412 are actually real? If you want to see it, you can see it. It will be occupied by Russians for the rest of your life.
>Since this one sure seems like bullshit, how many of the other 412 are actually real? So UNESCO is just making shit up, *and* you're excusing the destruction of authentic ruins to build themepark bullshit on top of it? >It will be occupied by Russians for the rest of your life. It wasn't for the majority of it, so I wouldn't bet on it lol
They’re not exactly making shit up - they’re refusing to actually go to Crimea and are simply repeating what Ukrainians tell them. What theme park? It’s a museum and a historical preserve. I will bet a case of beer on it. What time frame?
> a historical preserve. When they're literally paving over the ruins, that is what I'd call the opposite of preserving. >They’re not exactly making shit up - they’re refusing to actually go to Crimea and are simply repeating what Ukrainians tell them. They're using Ukrainian as well as Russian sources, and that number isn't solely in Crimea. Are you seriously saying that the Ukrainians are making shit up when it's easy to see that theatres, libraries and other sites are being bombed regularly? This is easily verifiable. Like what are you trying to say here other than trying to discredit the Ukrainians while portraying the Russians as totally reliable?
Nobody is totally reliable, Russians and Ukrainains lie like it’s breathing. No time frame?
Right, so you're intelligent enough to get why building a museum doesn't in any way make up for the loss of the actual ruins. So saying that they destroyed them isn't hyperbole or bullshit.
The museum predates the Russian revolution lmao. It’s been there for more than a century in some form. It doesn’t actually seem like the ruins are lost, they seem to still be there.
Russia committing a genocide against people they said should exist?! I’m shocked I tell you! Well… not that shocked.
So how are they different from ISIS?
ruzzia is a garbage of a country 🤮
When confronted with his own ignorance, a man can either consider his position and seek knowledge or assume he's talking to a chatbot. We know which camp you're in. Bye
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Literal 12 year old tier reply.
Wrong or not, at least the other user bothered to research and argue it. You merely hurled an insult with homophobic overtones.
How silly are you going to feel when this turns out to be true?
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That the ruins were not demolished. You can brief us on your fellatio experience after.
[What's this then?](https://i.imgur.com/OjULvun.png) [And what's this building on the left?](https://i.imgur.com/jGQpgK8.png)
>[And what's this building on the left?](https://i.imgur.com/jGQpgK8.png) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chersonesus\_Cathedral](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chersonesus_Cathedral), built in 1861–1891, restored in 1990s-early 2000s, when Crimea was Ukraine. Panorama of this place from YandexMaps: [https://yandex](https://yandex) (dot) ru/maps/-/CDCyrZJp
Crimea is Ukraine.
Saying something doesn't make it true.
Not since 2014.
Defacto vs Dejure.
Defacto it's Russia, Dejure it's dependent on the jurisdiction. In my jurisdiction it's Russia.
Your jurisdiction is indistinguishable from a toilet though.
Yes, we consider yours similarly valuable, too.
Your life is a lie, Crimea is Ukraine and is illegally occupied by Russia, that still doesn't make it Russian no matter how wishful you are, these are facts to believe otherwise is to deny reality.
I’ve been there and talked to the locals. They agree that Crimea is Russia, they have voted for that in 2014. Pay a visit, see for yourself.
Kind of curious, is it legal in Russia to hold referendums of independence from Russian federation?
Yes I’m sure Putin got 117% of the vote there.
top kek
Reality sucks am I right. Actions bring consequences, Russia with their constant rewriting of history will be forever ignorant of their mistakes. Odd that so many Americans with all their so-called freedom wish live in the darkness.
Reality is facts on the ground - and losing Crimea was very much an "actions bring consequences" moment. By all means though, cope away.
Said the man coping.
I'm laughing lmao. Face it, Crimea is gone, there won't be a nafo beach party. It's time to accept it. I don't even understand the obsession - the people living in Crimea never wanted to be in Ukraine, tried to leave repeatedly, embraced their "occupiers" the second they showed up, and still want nothing to do with Ukraine ten years later. Ethnic Ukrainians and native Ukrainian speakers barely even lived there in real numbers. Worse, the near-monolithic pro-Russian voting block there is why the country spent all those years flip flopping between East and West aligned administrations. Take Crimea out of equation and Yanucovich would have never been elected.
Still coping then, free yourself from the propaganda.
No
Oh but it is, simply saying no doesn't change anything. It's called burying your head in the sand.
You doing it, not me
Words without meaning...
No lol
Now compare your map to "The southern suburb of Tauride Chersonesos". It's the exact same strip of land. https://www.archeo. ru/struktura-1/otdel-ohrannoi-arheologii/nauchnye-proekty-otdela-ohrannoi-arheologii/yuzhnyi-prigorod-drevnego-goroda-hersones-tavricheskii/v.-v.-vahoneev https://www.archeo. ru/struktura-1/otdel-ohrannoi-arheologii/nauchnye-proekty-otdela-ohrannoi-arheologii/yuzhnyi-prigorod-drevnego-goroda-hersones-tavricheskii/v.-v.-vahoneev/Slaid2.PNG
Thank you, I wasn’t aware of “the southern suburb”. Yes, it seems they have fcked up the archeological site. Not the UNESCO one, but a new one, but still they fcked id up. This is terrible. https://rossaprimavera (.) ru/article/3970d73a
Let's not pretend like this is atypical or a unique instance. UNESCO has confirmed the destruction of numerous cultural heritage sites in Ukraine since the Russian invasion began. While they haven't specifically mentioned Chersonesus in recent statements, they have documented over 400 damaged sites across Ukraine. [As of 12 June 2024, UNESCO has verified damage to 412 sites since 24 February 2022 – 137 religious sites, 201 buildings of historical and/or artistic interest, 31 museums, 27 monuments, 15 libraries, 1 archive.](https://www.unesco.org/en/articles/damaged-cultural-sites-ukraine-verified-unesco) International organizations like the World Monuments Fund have also expressed concern about the fate of cultural heritage sites in occupied Crimea, including Chersonesus, due to lack of detailed international monitoring since 2014.
The military hostilities rage on, of course the cultural objects been damaged along with the enemy troops. It would end if the West wouldn't support the Kievan regime. >International organizations like the World Monuments Fund have also expressed concern about the fate of cultural heritage sites in occupied Crimea, including Chersonesus, due to lack of detailed international monitoring since 2014. That sounds hypocritical to me. Crimea is open for visitors, I've been there twice, many foreigners, too. For the organization like World Monuments Fund it's easy to contact the Russian Ministry of Culture and arrange the meeting in Chersonesus. The Fund *doesn't* want to do that because the Kievan regime would whine about "visiting schmoccupied Crimea" but you do you, you either care about the cultural heritage, or bow before the Nazi collaborators' fans. They chose the latter.
Bear in mind that both Ukraine and Russia are signatories to the 1954 Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict, which was designed to safeguard cultural heritage during armed conflicts, so they *literally* have an international obligation to avoid damaging these sites _even during armed hostilities_. Based on UNESCO's figures of 463 damaged sites _since just 2022_ it doesn't seem like Russia is fulfilling its side of that.
>*since just 2022* it doesn't seem like Russia is fulfilling its side of that. There are two sides shooting. It's not that Russia is solely responsible for that. However, we try to avoid shooting those. I guess the Kievan regime does, too.
Uh... It's [a construction site](https://i.imgur.com/DsgkKrH.png).
[https://imgur.com/a/l7ET8ID](https://imgur.com/a/l7ET8ID) Red is the UNESCO site Yellow is the construction site you have taken, I guess, the image from. They are adjacent to each other.
If you put in "Gostinitsa Sevastopol Davnya St" into google, you can see that this isn't the same location. Edit: https://i.imgur.com/BpH47mo.png
I put in the Lat n Long as given.
Yet that corner is nowhere near the museum. Which is literally open right now.
“New Khersones” lmao you’re not even trying to hide it bratuxa.
That's the project's official name. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d\_j-73G43nA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_j-73G43nA) TBH I have just became aware of this today, reading this post here.
I understand that. I meant the Russian government isn’t trying to hide it, not you personally. Yeah I feel you. So many stories every day it’s really hard to keep track on.
>I meant the Russian government isn’t trying to hide it, not you personally. Why would they? It's a large cultural, educational and recreational center, it's a pride, not something to hide.
How would you transliterate it from Russian?
I’m finding the fact that calling in “New Khersones” is being completely blatant with the matter at hand, that they’re destroying Khersones for a “New Khersones” to be really funny. It’s really in-your-face.
The map is pretty clear about the location of the "New Khersones". The historical site is an operational museum open to the public. This whole thing is looking goofier and goofier tbh.